Latest / Event Industry News Podcast / GEI18: How Live Events Are Powering a Greener Future
Transcript
- 0:00Hello everybody, welcome along to the Event Industry News podcast with me, James Dixon,
- 0:10wishing you all a very good morning, afternoon or evening, whenever or wherever you tune
- 0:14into today's podcast from. I'm recording this podcast on Monday the 16th of February and
- 0:21today's episode is going to go out pretty much straight away because it references something
- 0:26that is happening next week in London. It is an event that has a significant place within
- 0:34the modern day events industry and to tell us more about it is my guest today. My guest
- 0:39is Clare O'Neill. Clare is a name that I'm sure a lot of our podcast followers will be
- 0:43familiar with within the events industry. Clare is the CEO and co-founder of AGF, a
- 0:48greener future and joins the podcast today to chat a little bit about the Green Events
- 0:54and Innovations Conference 2026. Clare, well, warm welcome to the podcast.
- 0:59Thank you. Thanks for that lovely intro as well, James.
- 1:01Not a problem at all. And yeah, we're here today to talk about GEI 2026, what's coming
- 1:10on the agenda, what sort of things are going to be discussed for those podcast listeners
- 1:14and followers who might not be familiar with AGF. Would it be sensible maybe to give a
- 1:19little bit of context first of all about who you are and what you do and what its place
- 1:23is within the events industry? Yeah, sure. So AGF used to be called a greener
- 1:28festival back in the day and then we developed into a greener future over the years. It's
- 1:34been going for 20 years and we began by looking at the festival culture essentially and how
- 1:41that had a great opportunity to influence the way that people lived, but also to reconnect
- 1:47people with nature and then also to build temporary cities or towns. And at the time,
- 1:54I'd also learned that we had climate change was upon us, that we had things like plastic
- 2:01pollution, that there were problems with all of our systems, polluting the water, polluting
- 2:05the air, and there were things that we needed to do differently. So I thought, how can we
- 2:10take essentially something that's so inspiring and make it into a tool for change? Over the
- 2:17years, that then developed to start to work alongside artists, to work alongside venues,
- 2:23tours, and all different parts of the events industry. So we began with a certification
- 2:29for festivals, then that became training for sustainability managers for events, and then
- 2:36this went on to become a green artist rider, venue guidance, greener arena certification,
- 2:43and we do consultancy for all types of event industry organizations for sustainability
- 2:49at this point. So that's everything from training, CO2 analysis, sustainability strategies,
- 2:56sustainability managers, and so on. And alongside that, we've always been hosting GEI. So this
- 3:01is the 18th year of the Green Events and Innovations Conference now, which is where that whole
- 3:06community comes together. And I should add, we've been doing that internationally since
- 3:12we began, because when AGF first started, I think it was in 2007, that the website launched,
- 3:19and festivals all around the world got in touch with us from the start. And so we began
- 3:24as international, and it's always unfolded that way.
- 3:27And it's great that that has evolved from being a greener festival into a greener future,
- 3:33because the word festival, whilst it's a vast part of the events industry, and financially
- 3:38represents a huge, a huge portion, the subject matter and the items that were being addressed
- 3:46by AGF were for all events, weren't they? They weren't just for festivals, which is
- 3:51something, no doubt, that you realize and led to the evolution of the organization.
- 3:54Yeah, absolutely. And not only for all events, but it's spread so much into our lives and
- 4:00societies as a whole. The topic is so much bigger than events. But what we're finding
- 4:06now, as the years have gone on, in the beginning, really, we were looking at how to, I suppose,
- 4:13how to switch the industry on to something that was kind of a counterculture or an alternative
- 4:18way of living. And then as time has gone on, those topics that were previously niche, have
- 4:24become mainstream, because the problems associated with them are much more prevalent. So by that,
- 4:30I mean things like extreme weather, pollution, movement of people, migration and disasters
- 4:38that have been happening around the world as a result of the things that were being
- 4:41championed 20 years ago. These are getting much more important, much more entwined in
- 4:47people's daily lives, no matter what sector you're in. And then as time has gone on, we've
- 4:52found actually events really punch above their weight, as far as the difference that they
- 4:59can make. And especially in the cultural sectors, I suppose, or entertainment sectors, we work
- 5:04a lot in music, also in sports, and cultural events. And whilst they don't necessarily
- 5:10have a huge impact, as far as global impacts are concerned, you know, compared to the energy
- 5:14sector, or the agricultural sector, and so on, the transport sector, they have a phenomenal
- 5:20impact as far as reach. And now that we have what we call it, culture wars, essentially,
- 5:27and populism, then that ability to reach people with messages, with ways of doing things,
- 5:34with ways of living is so much more significant, even than it was before. So I think that there's
- 5:39going to be almost a coming of age of stepping into what are all of these platforms for.
- 5:45To add one more thing on that with the way that our, shall we say, our communication
- 5:54has changed in the last 20 years, since we began. The iPhone came out, I think, in 2007.
- 6:01We have so much more isolation now through our phones, that coming together in community
- 6:06face to face, which is very countering to polarisation, unlike being on your phone.
- 6:13And so again, event spaces are a place where we can really build the future that we want
- 6:18to see. And that's something that we have to keep on pressing relentlessly.
- 6:23Before we get into sort of have a dive into what's going to be taking place at this year's
- 6:29GEI, what you just mentioned there about phones, about the iPhone, it strikes me that a lot
- 6:35of the social consciousness and social change and awareness that's prevalent nowadays is
- 6:40driven by young people and having a far better social conscience than generations previous.
- 6:48And yet they're also the generation that have grown up and been fully embedded in the world
- 6:55of smartphones, smart devices, the internet. So on the one hand, people complain about
- 7:01young people being tied and linked to their phones, but also they're the people who are
- 7:06driving social change because of the shift in consciousness. And in the almost 20 years
- 7:11that you've been around as AGF, that's almost a generation. That's almost a generational
- 7:17jump from when you started to where you are now. And I guess there's all sorts of analysis
- 7:22you could go into about the people who are now in the industry and working in the industry
- 7:26now and maybe some of the change that those people coming into the industry have driven
- 7:33over the last 20 years or so because of that change in social consciousness.
- 7:37Yes, it's so, there's so many different avenues you could take there. On the one hand, kind
- 7:43of taking a step out of that. I wonder whether there will be a backlash from the next generation
- 7:50that being on your phone is so old, so old school. And they're like, we know this thing
- 7:56called IRL that we have invented. And we're so much cooler than you guys. We're not going to
- 8:01be on our devices. Thank you very much. Because it's what the old people do. Because I feel like
- 8:07I feel like what there's, you know, I'm 42 now. And a lot of people who are like, who are my
- 8:14friends, my networks, my age group, we spend so much time on our phones, like ridiculously,
- 8:19and we're up so late, wasting time, being on our phones and talking to each other about,
- 8:24oh, my God, I can't get off my phone. But I feel like you know, there was the pandemic
- 8:30obviously forced a lot, a lot more people and especially young people who were then in their
- 8:34bedrooms just on their devices. And that's the only way they communicated. They are obviously
- 8:38intertwined with it in that respect. But I feel like coming through people who've grown up with
- 8:43their parents constantly on their phones, I think there'll be a resistance to it. I at least hope so.
- 8:50And leading that resistance, this is my segue into into GEI, leading that resistance will be
- 8:55the continued sort of, you know, the live events industry, you know, it's always been about
- 9:01bringing people together, you know, in a space, be that indoors, outdoors, call it what you will,
- 9:07festival conference, even a wedding, bringing groups of people into a space to talk and interact
- 9:13with each other is the fundamental basis on which the events industry is built. And
- 9:19GEI, Green Events and Innovations is there to do, I guess, a number of things, which hopefully you
- 9:25can dive into. But let's talk about first of all, when and where and why we're recording this today,
- 9:29and it's going to be released this week. The event is next week, 24th of February, is that right?
- 9:35Yep, that's right. So it's 24th of February at the Royal Lancaster London. I mentioned already,
- 9:42it's been going for 18 years now since the 18th edition. And I think it's been maybe the last
- 9:4710 years or so that we've been in partnership with the ILMC, the International Live Music
- 9:53Conference. So we take place on the Tuesday, and then ILMC is from the Wednesday through to
- 10:00the Friday. So we start on the Tuesday morning, we have the GEI conference, and then that closes
- 10:09with the International AGF Awards, which is where we celebrate all of the different events who've
- 10:14been certified and nominated and assessed for the AGF certification. I can talk about that later,
- 10:22all the different categories. And then the close of it is with our closing drinks during ILMC's
- 10:27opening drinks. And this year, for the first time, all of the delegates get to go to Soho Calling
- 10:33as well, which is the showcase festival that's happening on Wednesday, the 25th.
- 10:38I think that there's a, yeah, people tend to like to stick around and party after GEI, I've come to
- 10:44notice. So we've been trying to find more places for them to go. So the hotel eventually gets
- 10:50emptied. People don't need much convincing when it comes to social activities, I find.
- 10:54No, exactly, exactly. And just on that from, you know, it's about people coming together,
- 11:01I feel like it's more and more and more and more critical now to actually get into a space. And we
- 11:06always feel so enriched after GEI, because so many amazing people doing incredible things,
- 11:13but it can feel quite isolating sometimes when you're just against the grindstone,
- 11:17whether it's organizing your event or fighting some kind of social justice cause or trying to
- 11:22get some kind of policy across the line for environmentalism. And so this is a place where
- 11:28people really feel kind of held and uplifted. I took a look at the agenda on the website,
- 11:35and we'll give the website out at the end of the podcast, everybody. So if you want to find out
- 11:39more, we'll make sure that all those details are there and in links, etc, when this gets published.
- 11:44But I took a look at the agenda. And one thing I that struck me fairly swiftly looking through
- 11:49the agenda, I thought, hold on, this is all this is all happening on one day, there's an awful lot
- 11:54of there's an awful lot of content sessions. But when I looked at the specific timings of them,
- 12:00one thing I noticed is a lot of them are quite short sessions. Yeah, people when people go to
- 12:05conferences, and they're they used to sort of 45 minute, one hour long sessions, a lot of them
- 12:09might only be 15 minutes long. And that struck me straight away. I've always said that shorter
- 12:13sessions are good for provoking and promoting conversation afterwards, rather than not boring
- 12:20people, but you know, cramming as much as you can into an hour and answering all the questions.
- 12:24A short session is almost in some respects designed to, to create more questions than
- 12:30it started with. Is that the case when it comes to programming? Yeah, also to help people get to
- 12:34the point as well, because we don't want people sitting there doing their emails while someone's
- 12:38just waffling on. That doesn't happen at GE either, we always have fantastic speakers.
- 12:45But what we've done this year, we've actually changed, there's something new this year that
- 12:49in the beginning, we had one room, and there was, I think there was like 35 people or something in
- 12:55one room. And they were the only people that were interested in sustainable festivals at the time.
- 13:00And then it's grown over the years. It's been two rooms now, I think for maybe the last eight years
- 13:05or something like that. And this year, we've added a third room. And people listening to this
- 13:10are event organizers. Actually, I thought, Oh, yeah, if I add a third room, and it'll be a lot
- 13:14easier on fitting things in that we always want to deep dive into in the program, but don't have
- 13:18the space. And obviously, it's made it just a third more complicated than it was before to organize.
- 13:25But, but what we've done is in the third room, that's essentially where we want to do case
- 13:30studies or deep dives into really quite niche topics. So for instance, we've got the deep dive
- 13:37into toilets, the loo's you choose, you know, we can really look at if you want to know about toilets
- 13:42and what is sustainable about toilets, this is the place that you go. But that's not necessarily
- 13:46going to be a main room session that everybody is interested in. More's the pity because it's a very
- 13:50important topic. And so room three, there's a lot of shorter sessions. And then we've got room one
- 13:57is I suppose the kind of there's a lot of quite artistic, philosophical, difficult subjects that
- 14:05are in that room where you do need a bit more space for conversation and to give people
- 14:10like room to breathe almost in in what could be quite either potentially even esoteric
- 14:18or very difficult conversations. And so there, we don't want it to be too tight.
- 14:25And then in room two, it's kind of a mixture between the two. So it's that there's a lot of
- 14:30operational, very practical discussions to be had presenting information that people need to know,
- 14:35but also giving the opportunity for conversation between the people in the room as well.
- 14:41But what we always do also is for the people who are attending, we record the sessions, so that
- 14:48I really struggle with it. I'm like, I want to see everything, but some things run concurrently.
- 14:53So we record them so people can watch back the sessions that they missed and decide which ones
- 14:58they want to be at in person to engage with as well. Yeah. And one thing I wanted to ask you
- 15:03today is how the conference has helped event organisers to have what they may feel were
- 15:11difficult discussions about certain topics, because I think there's been an undeniable
- 15:17approach, broadly speaking, the events industry to embrace subjects of sustainability and DEI
- 15:24and inclusivity, and, you know, carbon emissions and all of these things that kind of form,
- 15:29you know, a bigger picture around, you know, more sustainable events. But from speaking to
- 15:36event organisers, some of them have, I know for a fact, some of them said that they find some of
- 15:40those conversations actually quite awkward, because they might not have the experience,
- 15:44the understanding, the knowledge around it, and they're worried about, you know,
- 15:47putting their foot in it, for want of a better phrase, is as part of the objective of DEI over
- 15:55the years to help break down some of those sort of reservations that people had and actually say,
- 16:00look, come in, let's have these discussions, let's give you that education.
- 16:04Yeah, absolutely. And I think the key there is not necessarily being about giving education,
- 16:09there's definitely things to be learned by having a variety of voices and perspectives in the room
- 16:14that really helps, but also by setting a very welcoming and kind space where no one is the
- 16:21absolute expert that understands everything in the world. And there's a lot of complexities
- 16:26around so many subjects. And ultimately, the message that we give out as DEI is that we want
- 16:31to make things better. We want to look after people, want to be kind to everyone, want to be
- 16:35inclusive. We won't tolerate abuse of nature or of people. And therefore, we're not going to be
- 16:45picking on people if they get things wrong, you know, everybody is learning. And there's definitely
- 16:51conversations and discussions that we've had in DEI that touch on nerves with people. But there's
- 16:57always a held space where people can have those conversations as an opportunity to speak to people
- 17:02afterwards. And it's quite a nurturing community in that respect. I think that by setting the
- 17:07intention of what is the purpose of the event beforehand, helps people to know that what we
- 17:12want to do is make things better. And we're all always learning. So, so long as you're down with
- 17:17that, then there's nothing to fear. Absolutely. And I mean, in terms of the content itself is
- 17:24undeniably attractive to anybody who's working in the events industry, you just have to look at the
- 17:29agenda to see that. But we ran a story on event industry news a few weeks ago with a couple of
- 17:35just an announcement of a couple of, I suppose, what you call sort of celebrity names that have
- 17:39been added to the content for the agenda. Chris Packham and David Gray, both taking part in
- 17:47sessions for two, I suppose, very much linked things, but two separate sessions there. Tell
- 17:52us a little bit more about those. Yeah, so I'll start with David Gray
- 17:56and Earth Percent have been our charity partner for a number of years now. If listeners don't
- 18:02know, Earth Percent is set up perhaps five, six, maybe even seven years ago. The first discussions
- 18:08were just before the pandemic. And it's been set up in order to essentially be, it does fund
- 18:16organizations both within and outside of the events sector, the music sector specifically,
- 18:23in order to care for the planet. So they talk about unleashing the power of music
- 18:28in service of the planet. And Brian Eno was one of the founders of that charity.
- 18:34They have a fantastic network of musicians who care about their mission in order to use their
- 18:42platform, their profile to protect nature, to care for indigenous communities who ultimately
- 18:48protect nature, and to find ways to make the world a better place. And so through our fantastic
- 18:54partnership with the people at Earth Percent, each year they've been hosting, I think this is the
- 18:59fifth year that they'll be hosting the last session, which is the keynote Earth Percent Hour.
- 19:06They previously had Brian Eno, Jarvis Cocker, Jacob Collier, Aurora, incredible, wonderful people
- 19:14who've come to speak. And David Gray has recently put his shoulder to the wheel. Is that the
- 19:19expression? I'm never quite sure about that. I'm not sure actually. Sounds dangerous. It sounds
- 19:25great to me. Yeah. Yeah. But he's been helping, he's very supportive of trying to use that platform
- 19:32of music in order to make change for the better. So we're super happy to have him. And Anna Calvey
- 19:38is also joining that session as well, speaking with Kathy Runciman from the charity. So they
- 19:45will close the day. And that's a really nice moment when we get everybody to come together
- 19:48as well into room one, just before the International AGF Awards. And then with Chris
- 19:54Packham, such a dude. I was wondering, is Chris Packham known in Europe as well as the UK? He
- 20:01should be. I'm not entirely sure, but I feel like I've known him since I can remember television.
- 20:08The really wild show back in the eighties. There's one for the teenagers there, but I
- 20:12remembered that that's my, what was my first encounter. But so I don't know if he's known
- 20:16internationally, but I know that certainly in the UK, for people of this, I'm in my mid forties,
- 20:22he will absolutely be somebody that people have known as long as they can remember watching TV.
- 20:26Yeah. I mean, he's such a legend and he's so very similarly to Dale Vince, who he'll be in
- 20:32conversation with during GEI. So Dale Vince runs Ecotricity, the green energy company,
- 20:38Forest Green Rovers, the vegan football club. And they're both, they both use their platforms again
- 20:46in order to make change. And they're both very direct and very like particular about how they
- 20:51do things. And Chris has come out very much in support of obviously wildlife and nature.
- 20:57He was very supportive of just stop oil, anti-fossil fuels. And so he's completely
- 21:03aligned basically with GEI and the way that we do things. And they started something fantastic
- 21:11called Ecotalk, which I just loved. As soon as I heard about it, I changed my phone provider to it
- 21:18because Ecotalk is essentially a SIM card or a phone where all of the profits go to nature.
- 21:25So everybody has to pay for their phone bill. And yet most of the time, it's all just going
- 21:30to profits for somebody to buy a yacht or whatever. And this way it goes to rewilding
- 21:36and nature projects and reintroducing beavers into places and looking after the trees and the
- 21:43water and all of that lovely stuff. So they are going to give insights into, I guess,
- 21:50on the activist side of things, but also how we as an event sector can use our energy,
- 21:57essentially, in whatever forms that take in order to protect nature and using real life examples of
- 22:03how that's done in business and practically. And I'm sure that there'll be some very interesting
- 22:08stories to come from those guys as well. So I'm very much looking forward to that session.
- 22:13And it's called Saturday Night Beaver is the name of that session. You'll have to be there
- 22:20to find out why. It's a brilliant name. I saw that one on the agenda and I did scroll
- 22:24by and I had to read it twice. Right, okay, I get it. Okay, I get the pun initially. Yeah.
- 22:33And have a look because there's some, I mean, there was one that caught my eyes with Riders
- 22:36on the Storm and then straight away I'm singing The Doors. Yeah, I've been singing it for like a
- 22:41month now. My partner's getting really annoyed. I hope that that's what they're going to come on
- 22:46stage to. I hope that people get walk on music. Yes, yeah. They can walk on to Riders on the
- 22:52Storm. One thing that I just wanted to maybe, I know we were talking today fundamentally about
- 22:58GEI and the event that takes place, but you mentioned the AGF certification and the awards.
- 23:04I'm just wondering what we've got you on today to maybe give people who are tuning in an idea of
- 23:09what AGF certification is, what the awards acknowledge, et cetera, et cetera. So that if
- 23:14they're not aware, they can find out a bit more about it. Yeah, absolutely. So we started with,
- 23:20like I said, we were doing the festival certifications and then that developed to
- 23:23all types of events. I think around about 2015, we branched out to all types of events.
- 23:28Since 2019, we've been doing the arena and venue certifications as well. And we're just
- 23:35putting the finishing touches to the theater certification too. So it's something where we
- 23:41look at 11 key themes from governance and CO2 through to, we look at waste, power, transport,
- 23:50water, procurements, all the things you'd expect. And then also social impact. So we'd look at what
- 23:57you're doing with accessibility, EDI, behavior change and communication as well. Like I was
- 24:02talking about previously, how do you use your platform in order to communicate to people and to
- 24:07give certain messages? So that's, it involves having an assessor come to your event or your
- 24:14venue to see what's happening on the ground. You complete the self-assessment and then have to
- 24:19submit supporting evidence as well. So for instance, that might be things like fuel bills or
- 24:25electricity bills, waste transfer notes, audience surveys, that kind of thing. And then at the end
- 24:31of that, you get given a score across the various different sections that you're assessed to. And
- 24:36you'll have an overall grade, which is improvers, commended, highly commended or outstanding.
- 24:43So any number of events in the world can apply anywhere in the world. And this is something where
- 24:50the certification is given then every February, we do this ceremony, a certification ceremony.
- 24:56And what we do separately to that or linked to it is the awards. So that's where we might go,
- 25:02okay, in waste and procurements, who were the ones that were scoring the highest or doing the
- 25:08most impressive things in that area of all of those events that we certified? And then they
- 25:13become the nominees for the circularity award, for instance. And then the winner will be the
- 25:20one who got scored the highest out of all of those certifications. So some of the categories are
- 25:26power, water, waste, whilst we have community, so which ones have been best at engaging with
- 25:34community, the communications, which we call the Pied Piper Award, which my team have said,
- 25:39our Spanish delegates don't know what you're talking about with the Pied Piper Award.
- 25:44Well, they'll know eventually, so we decided to keep it. And it's really good fun. It's quite like,
- 25:52yeah, there's kind of no airs and graces about our award ceremony. Although we do have champagne,
- 25:57which is provided by Planet of the Grapes, which I just think is such a fantastic name.
- 26:02Brilliant, that's another great name.
- 26:04Yeah, check them out. It's all about people with good names. That's how you get to come to GEI,
- 26:09essentially.
- 26:09This is some of the best named stuff that you could possibly find at a business event.
- 26:13We also have Vegan Balls from Devil's Kitchen.
- 26:18I saw that. The post drinks event is Booze and Balls.
- 26:23Booze and Balls, yeah, exactly.
- 26:25So, you know, that alone is worth the registration. Which, again, a nice segue into telling people,
- 26:33having said all of this on today's podcast, we should really point people in the right direction
- 26:38if they're listening to this this week and they think, right, next week I need to get along to
- 26:42that. How do they do that? Just onto the Greener Future website?
- 26:45Yeah, exactly. So, if you go onto greenerfuture.com forward slash GEI, then you can find all the
- 26:51information there, like the full schedule, things about accommodation, how to get there and all that
- 26:56jazz. And then it can take you through to the ticket page if you want to book. Yeah, and that's
- 27:02it.
- 27:02It's great to see the schedule on there in full for anybody, even if you've not registered,
- 27:07because a lot of conferences and events of this nature give you a flavour of what to expect,
- 27:13but they don't give you it all until you register. But ultimately, to provoke people to actually
- 27:18register and say that I want to go to that, you've got to give them that information. So,
- 27:22can I just say, it's great to see on the website that all of the agenda, the sessions,
- 27:27all the synopsis, who's going to be speaking on them, the timings, it's all there. So,
- 27:31if you go over to the website, you'll see within a matter of minutes that it's going to be relevant
- 27:35to you and what sort of schedule you might want to, you know, create for your particular day and
- 27:41your experience there. So, head over to, yeah, agreenerfuture.com where you can register for
- 27:47the event on the 24th of February at the Royal Lancaster in London. And telling us all about
- 27:53that event today has been Claire O'Neill, CEO and founder of Agreener Future. Claire,
- 27:57thanks so much for joining the podcast today.
- 28:00Thank you. Such a pleasure and see you next week, hopefully.
- 28:03Absolutely. And before we wrap up, just a very quick couple of mentions for some stuff that's
- 28:07happening in the world of event industry news. First of all, the recent announcement that was
- 28:12made on event industry news relating to the new wedding section of the website. Weddings are a
- 28:18huge part of the events industry and haven't been represented on the website until now. So,
- 28:25if you work in the business of weddings, if you're a venue, a planner, a supplier, anything of that
- 28:30nature and weddings represents part of your business, there is now a dedicated home for all
- 28:35of that news information and suppliers on event industry news. Just go to the website, event
- 28:40industry news.com, click on news, and then you'll be able to go to the dedicated wedding section of
- 28:46the website. That was announced just a couple of weeks ago. And also, just a reminder to subscribe
- 28:52to the podcast. If you're listening to this today via your audio podcast provider, please make sure
- 28:57that you go over to event industry news.com, where you can see video versions of all the podcasts.
- 29:02And indeed, if you've started your journey there today, and you're watching this podcast on the
- 29:06website, make sure you go in the opposite direction to wherever you get your audio podcast from and
- 29:10make sure that you like and subscribe so that you get all of the episodes as they drop each week.
- 29:16My thanks again to Claire O'Neill from the AGF for joining us today and telling us all about
- 29:20GEI 2026. Good luck with it next week, Claire. Hope it goes well. Thanks for taking the time today.
- 29:26Thank you. And thanks everybody for watching. We'll see you on the next edition of the Event
- 29:30Industry News podcast. Goodbye.