Latest / Pod Save America / "Why We Can't Give Up."

Transcript

"Why We Can't Give Up." · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:22
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
0:23
Speaker 1: On today's show, the U.S. Senate debates gun safety reform
0:26
Speaker 1: following the horrific shooting at a Texas elementary school. California
0:30
Speaker 1: Senator Alex Padilla joins us to talk about his new
0:33
Speaker 1: push in the Senate to stop mass shootings. And later,
0:36
Speaker 1: we'll go through this week's election results from the primaries
0:39
Speaker 1: in Georgia and Texas. But first, in case you missed
0:42
Speaker 1: it this week, check out What A Day. America Dissected
0:45
Speaker 1: host Dr. Abdul El-Sayed joined to discuss the rise in
0:48
Speaker 1: COVID cases across the country. Abdul's also recovering from getting
0:53
Speaker 1: his appendix removed, so we wish him well. A speedy recovery. Also,
0:58
Speaker 1: Love It or Leave It shows are back in LA
1:00
Speaker 1: throughout the month of June. Plus, tickets for Pod Save
1:04
Speaker 1: America Tour are still available for our shows in Los Angeles, Oakland,
1:08
Speaker 1: New York, and more. For tickets to both shows, Love
1:11
Speaker 1: It or Leave It and Pod Save America, head to cricket.com
1:14
Speaker 1: slash events. And one more thing, Dan, I hear you
1:17
Speaker 1: have a special deal for our listeners.
1:19
Speaker 2: I do. Thanks, John. We are now less than two
1:23
Speaker 2: weeks out from the release of Battling the Big Lie,
1:25
Speaker 2: my book about how Fox, Facebook, and the MAGA media
1:29
Speaker 2: are infecting our politics and what we can do about it.
1:32
Speaker 2: And because we are in New York for a live
1:34
Speaker 2: show next week, this is actually the last normal Thursday
1:37
Speaker 2: pod before the book comes out. And so I just
1:40
Speaker 2: wanted to first just thank every one of our listeners
1:43
Speaker 2: who has bought the book, pre-ordered the book. I'm always
1:48
Speaker 2: so grateful to this community that they listen to what
1:50
Speaker 2: we say, they come to our shows, they buy the book.
1:53
Speaker 2: It's like this is... why we do all of this
1:57
Speaker 2: and we love them so much. And for our listeners,
2:00
Speaker 2: we have, who have not yet bought the book, the
2:03
Speaker 2: folks at the Strand bookstore are offering a special deal
2:06
Speaker 2: for Pod Save America listeners. If you go to strandbooks.com
2:10
Speaker 2: slash Pod Save America, you can order a discounted signed
2:14
Speaker 2: copy of the book. This is a special discount just
2:16
Speaker 2: for our listeners. Once again, I just want to thank
2:18
Speaker 2: everyone who has bought the book. I hope more people
2:21
Speaker 2: buy it. I hope you all read it, whether you
2:23
Speaker 2: buy it, borrow it from the library, borrow it from
2:25
Speaker 2: a friend. It is, I think, gets at one of
2:29
Speaker 2: the questions that drives this podcast. I know our listeners
2:33
Speaker 2: to focus on, which is how is it possible in
2:35
Speaker 2: a country where progressives have the majority of voters, the
2:38
Speaker 2: more popular positions, the more popular politicians that Republicans and
2:44
Speaker 2: conservatives keep winning some of the battles in the Donald
2:46
Speaker 2: Trump almost won right wing propaganda disinformation is one of
2:49
Speaker 2: the reasons for that. And in this book, I try
2:51
Speaker 2: to explain how it happened, how it works and what
2:54
Speaker 2: we can do about it. So please check it out.
2:57
Speaker 1: Yes, check it out. And we'll be talking about, we're
2:59
Speaker 1: trying to answer that question when it comes to guns today.
3:03
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the news. For the second
3:05
Speaker 1: time in two weeks, we're talking about a mass shooting
3:08
Speaker 1: in America. On May 14th, it was a racist massacre
3:11
Speaker 1: that left 10 people dead in Buffalo. On Tuesday, it
3:15
Speaker 1: was an elementary school massacre that left 19 children and
3:18
Speaker 1: two teachers dead in Uvalde, Texas. They were third and
3:22
Speaker 1: fourth graders, 10 years old, nine years old. One of
3:26
Speaker 1: them was eight. It was the deadliest school shooting since
3:29
Speaker 1: 20 children were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut,
3:34
Speaker 1: a decade ago. And in those 10 years, Republican politicians
3:39
Speaker 1: in Washington and state houses across the country have blocked
3:42
Speaker 1: even the most minor reforms to our gun laws over
3:46
Speaker 1: and over again. So that as soon as the murderer
3:50
Speaker 1: in Uvalde turned 18, he was able to almost immediately
3:54
Speaker 1: purchase two AR-15 semi-automatic rifles, and up to 375 rounds
3:59
Speaker 1: of ammunition, shoot his grandmother in the face, enter a
4:03
Speaker 1: school that had installed fences and hired its own police force,
4:08
Speaker 1: get by several of those armed police officers, barricade himself
4:12
Speaker 1: in a classroom, and murder two teachers and 19 little kids.
4:17
Speaker 1: And here's what some of those Republican politicians had to
4:20
Speaker 1: say in response.
4:22
Speaker 2: As horrible as what happened.
4:26
Speaker 2: It could have been worse. We have in our Constitution
4:30
Speaker 2: our Second Amendment rights, and I'm not interested in taking
4:32
Speaker 2: away rights of law-abiding citizens. If people want to talk
4:36
Speaker 2: about banning specific guns, they should propose that, but it
4:38
Speaker 2: wouldn't prevent these shootings. I mean, they could commit the
4:42
Speaker 2: crime with a different weapon. Don't have all of these
4:45
Speaker 2: unlocked back doors. Have one door into and out of
4:49
Speaker 2: the school, and have that one door armed police officers
4:52
Speaker 2: at that door.
4:54
Speaker 1: Dan, before we get to the disgustingly inadequate political response,
4:59
Speaker 1: your reaction to the utter nightmare in Uvalde?
5:05
Speaker 2: You know, John, obviously I've known that we were going
5:07
Speaker 2: to talk about this for a few days now, and
5:09
Speaker 2: I've been thinking since then of how to possibly put
5:13
Speaker 2: into words the combination of sadness, rage, and fear to
5:21
Speaker 2: describe Uvalde. It honestly feels impossible to communicate the fact
5:33
Speaker 2: that we live in a country that chooses to let
5:37
Speaker 2: this happen. Because it's a choice. It is absolutely a
5:41
Speaker 2: fucking choice. And we know it's a choice because in
5:44
Speaker 2: every other country in the world where something like this happens,
5:47
Speaker 2: they change the laws and it doesn't happen again. We
5:51
Speaker 2: live in a country that doesn't just let people have guns.
5:54
Speaker 2: that fetishizes them, where an 18-year-old, as you say, can
5:58
Speaker 2: go in and buy a weapon of war easier than
6:02
Speaker 2: he could buy a pack of Sudafed or adopt a
6:05
Speaker 2: dog or anything else. It is insane. And it is
6:10
Speaker 2: the ultimate failing of everything. And I've been thinking a
6:15
Speaker 2: lot these last two days about Newtown, because you and
6:21
Speaker 2: I worked in the White House when that happened. It
6:22
Speaker 2: was was the moment when we thought things were going
6:25
Speaker 2: to change and they didn't.
6:29
Speaker 4: Right?
6:29
Speaker 2: And there's this photo that's been going around on the
6:34
Speaker 2: internet from when President Obama went to the prayer vigil
6:39
Speaker 2: in Newtown. It's a picture of President Obama with these smiling,
6:42
Speaker 2: he's smiling and these little kids are smiling. And these
6:46
Speaker 2: are the brothers and sisters of the kids who were
6:48
Speaker 2: killed in Newtown. And they're too young to know that
6:53
Speaker 2: their brothers and sisters aren't coming home. And the response
6:58
Speaker 2: to that was nothing. And in that speech, President Obama
7:05
Speaker 2: said something that I think is the question we all
7:09
Speaker 2: have to wrestle with, which is the ultimate test for
7:14
Speaker 2: a society is whether you're willing to protect children. Because
7:17
Speaker 2: as he wrote in there, and it's something That obviously
7:20
Speaker 2: means something very different to me now than it did
7:22
Speaker 2: 10 years ago. But the idea that when you're a parent,
7:26
Speaker 2: there is a moment when you realize that you cannot
7:32
Speaker 2: keep your kids safe on your own. That you need
7:36
Speaker 2: your community or your country or your government to help
7:39
Speaker 2: you do it. And that is never more evident in
7:43
Speaker 2: your life. When you take them to school, you drop
7:46
Speaker 2: them off at the bus stop. And you watch him
7:48
Speaker 2: walk into that building and just have to hope that
7:55
Speaker 2: they're going to be there when you come get them.
7:56
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk in this podcast about whose
8:03
Speaker 2: fault it is, why things haven't gotten done, why it's
8:06
Speaker 2: so hard to get things done. The role Republicans in
8:08
Speaker 2: the NRA have obviously played in this. But if you
8:11
Speaker 2: take politics aside for just one second, and it is
8:16
Speaker 2: such– this whole thing is such an indictment on our,
8:20
Speaker 2: us as a society that this is going to, that
8:23
Speaker 2: happened in new town and nothing happened that happened here.
8:26
Speaker 2: And even the things we're talking about, you know, red
8:30
Speaker 2: flag laws, et cetera, wouldn't have stopped this. And they're
8:34
Speaker 2: not going to change the fact that we're still live
8:36
Speaker 2: in a country where people can go buy fucking assault
8:38
Speaker 2: weapons the day they turn 18 before they can buy
8:40
Speaker 2: a beer. And it, And that is the thing we
8:46
Speaker 2: have to wrestle with because for all the things that
8:48
Speaker 2: we say make this country great, make us exceptional or
8:51
Speaker 2: whatever else, is that the most basic thing, a solvable
8:55
Speaker 2: problem to prevent the slaughter of our citizens, we are
8:59
Speaker 2: incapable of doing. And that is what this is all
9:04
Speaker 2: about and that's what we have to wrestle with. There's
9:07
Speaker 2: no easy answers. There's no way to feel better about
9:09
Speaker 2: this or to try to– it just– that is the
9:13
Speaker 2: reality of life in America right now. And it's a
9:16
Speaker 2: huge problem.
9:19
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, um, when it happened, I thought about, uh,
9:25
Speaker 1: when I remember the Aurora shooting happened at a, at
9:28
Speaker 1: a movie theater in Colorado. And that was July of 2012.
9:33
Speaker 1: And we were on the road with Obama. It was
9:37
Speaker 1: in the middle of the reelection campaign. And I remember
9:39
Speaker 1: he was about to go speak at an event and, um,
9:42
Speaker 1: the news of the shooting broke and he was going
9:44
Speaker 1: to talk about it. And, um, he and I were
9:47
Speaker 1: standing backstage and he was, you know, sadder than I
9:52
Speaker 1: had ever seen him though. I would then see him
9:54
Speaker 1: even sadder at Sandy Hook after Sandy Hook. But he, um,
9:57
Speaker 1: he turned to me and he said, you don't, Favs
10:00
Speaker 1: don't have kids yet but uh once you do uh
10:04
Speaker 1: this will hit differently you know and uh he said
10:10
Speaker 1: that he said you know when you have kids it's
10:11
Speaker 1: like walking around with your heart heart outside your chest
10:16
Speaker 1: that's what having kids is like and i remember at
10:18
Speaker 1: the time thinking Like, well, I don't have kids, but
10:23
Speaker 1: I'm unbelievably angry and unbelievably sad about this. And I
10:26
Speaker 1: felt like that at Sandy Hook. And then when he
10:28
Speaker 1: went to Newtown, he said that line in his speech.
10:32
Speaker 1: And I've thought about that for 10 years. And when
10:35
Speaker 1: I saw this happen, now that I have Charlie, I
10:39
Speaker 1: was like, oh, he's right. It does hit differently. And
10:43
Speaker 1: to what you just said, Charlie is almost two. And
10:48
Speaker 1: I haven't had to leave him at a school yet.
10:51
Speaker 1: but now I don't want to. To your point about
11:04
Speaker 1: other countries, which if you really want to get enraged,
11:09
Speaker 1: you're right. This doesn't have to happen here. When this
11:12
Speaker 1: happens in other places, they take different actions and they
11:15
Speaker 1: do different things and they don't eliminate shootings. They don't
11:19
Speaker 1: eliminate gun violence. but they certainly do reduce it in
11:24
Speaker 1: other countries. In the United Kingdom in 1996, 16 children
11:28
Speaker 1: were killed at a school in Scotland. They passed a
11:31
Speaker 1: law to restrict gun ownership. As of 2019, gun crimes
11:34
Speaker 1: had dropped by nearly 60% from their peak. That's the UK.
11:39
Speaker 1: In Australia, same year, 1996, 35 people killed with a
11:42
Speaker 1: semi-automatic rifle. A center-right government at that time bought back 650,000
11:49
Speaker 1: automatic and semi-automatic rifles. They created a national firearms registry.
11:54
Speaker 1: They instituted a 28-day waiting period. Since then, there has
11:57
Speaker 1: been one shooting, one mass shooting in Australia. And it
12:02
Speaker 1: was a case where a grandfather killed family members and
12:04
Speaker 1: then himself. Overall, studies show that Australia as a nation,
12:08
Speaker 1: as a continent, became less violent after that law. Overall,
12:12
Speaker 1: less violent. Not one mass shooting. they had since they
12:17
Speaker 1: passed that law in 1996. In New Zealand, which didn't
12:21
Speaker 1: have gun control laws like Australia did, right next door,
12:26
Speaker 1: the Christchurch racist massacre in 2019, again with an AR-15
12:31
Speaker 1: style rifle, left 51 Muslims dead. In less than a
12:35
Speaker 1: month after that, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and the parliament
12:38
Speaker 1: passed a buyback law and restrictions on AR-15s and other
12:42
Speaker 1: semi-automatic weapons. Someone interviewed Jacinda Ardern about that and why
12:46
Speaker 1: the United States hasn't done anything. And she said, we
12:49
Speaker 1: passed laws after this happened to us. Australia passed laws
12:52
Speaker 1: after there was a mass shooting. The UK do. I
12:54
Speaker 1: don't understand the United States. I don't understand. Canada had
12:59
Speaker 1: its deadliest ever mass shooting in 2020. And it took
13:01
Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau in the parliament less than two weeks to
13:04
Speaker 1: announce a ban on military style assault weapons, red flag
13:07
Speaker 1: laws and a voluntary buyback program. And then here's us
13:11
Speaker 1: in the United States, more gun deaths than just every,
13:13
Speaker 1: just about every other country on earth, more guns per
13:16
Speaker 1: capita than any other country on earth. And of course
13:20
Speaker 1: the fewest gun laws of any other country on earth.
13:26
Speaker 1: So I've had so many people ask me over the
13:29
Speaker 1: last few days, uh, why hasn't anything been done? Why
13:33
Speaker 1: can't anything get done? Why are the politics so immovable
13:38
Speaker 1: on this issue? Um, Dan?
13:43
Speaker 2: The problem here is the same problem on climate change, abortion, immigration,
13:51
Speaker 2: everything else, which is you have an extreme radical pro-gun
13:56
Speaker 2: minority in this country. But unlike all those other countries
14:00
Speaker 2: you talked about, that existed in many of those countries too.
14:02
Speaker 2: But what is different here is that our political system
14:04
Speaker 2: gives massively disproportionate power to that minority. We live in
14:10
Speaker 2: a situation where states like Idaho and North Dakota and
14:16
Speaker 2: Wyoming have the same number of senators as California, yet
14:21
Speaker 2: a fraction of the population. And so that gives a
14:24
Speaker 2: disproportionate power to that group. And then you add on
14:27
Speaker 2: top of that the fact that we have a filibuster
14:30
Speaker 2: in the Senate which allows a minority of senators representing
14:34
Speaker 2: a fraction of the population of the country to have
14:36
Speaker 2: veto power over popular legislation. There is a majority in
14:41
Speaker 2: the Senate right now for background checks, for a bunch
14:47
Speaker 2: of other– and I want to be crystal clear. Any
14:50
Speaker 2: law that we pass that saves a single life is
14:55
Speaker 2: worth doing in this case. But we're not even– our
14:59
Speaker 2: political system lacks the– because of the strictures of our
15:02
Speaker 2: political system, we don't even have the imaginations. to contemplate
15:06
Speaker 2: the things you really have to do. No one's even
15:08
Speaker 2: talking about an assault weapons ban. That's not even part
15:10
Speaker 2: of the conversation right now.
15:12
Speaker 1: I know. I've been thinking about that over the last
15:14
Speaker 1: couple of days, and it's been making me really angry.
15:18
Speaker 1: Because when you actually look into the background checks, what
15:20
Speaker 1: they do, you know, the background check, great, we should
15:22
Speaker 1: fight for them and pass them. They're like closing loopholes
15:25
Speaker 1: here and there on private dealers and internet sales and
15:27
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff.
15:28
Speaker 3: Great.
15:28
Speaker 1: But like, you're right. AR-15s used in every single one
15:32
Speaker 1: of these mass shootings in this country We're not even
15:35
Speaker 1: talking about that because the political will isn't there.
15:39
Speaker 2: You can't buy two packs of Sudafed at a time
15:41
Speaker 2: in this country without registering with your state. How can
15:45
Speaker 2: you buy 375 bullets? To what end is that allowed?
15:50
Speaker 2: That's not part of the conversation here. But to go
15:53
Speaker 2: back to try to be rational and perhaps even slightly
15:56
Speaker 2: constructive about this, the other thing I think we also
15:59
Speaker 2: have to understand is in addition to the problems of
16:01
Speaker 2: the political system is the politics of guns. are even
16:04
Speaker 2: more complicated than I think we think. We see these
16:08
Speaker 2: polls all the time that say 80% support for background checks, 90%.
16:12
Speaker 2: And then you're like, why the hell can't you pass
16:14
Speaker 2: something that's 80% or 90% support? Part of it is,
16:17
Speaker 2: to my previous point, that 80% or 90% support for
16:20
Speaker 2: that particular provision is not distributed evenly around the country.
16:24
Speaker 2: It is different. It's obviously much more popular in California
16:27
Speaker 2: and New York than some of these other states with
16:29
Speaker 2: equal numbers of senators. But You know, Gallup tracks sort
16:35
Speaker 2: of this question of whether Americans are satisfied with their
16:39
Speaker 2: gun laws, dissatisfied with their gun laws, want stricter gun
16:42
Speaker 2: laws or less strict gun laws. And at no point
16:45
Speaker 2: in Gallup's polling has there ever been a majority who
16:48
Speaker 2: said that they were dissatisfied and wanted stricter gun laws.
16:51
Speaker 2: The majority of people say that they are satisfied or
16:54
Speaker 2: want less strict laws.
16:56
Speaker 3: Right.
16:57
Speaker 2: Which says a lot about maybe what people think the
17:01
Speaker 2: laws are. Maybe they presume that we actually background check
17:04
Speaker 2: people and red flag laws actually exist. But the politics
17:08
Speaker 2: are more complicated. And there have been instances when ballot
17:10
Speaker 2: measures for these 80%, 90% issues are put on the
17:14
Speaker 2: actual ballot. People actually have to vote. They're basically getting
17:17
Speaker 2: at or in some cases below the level of the
17:19
Speaker 2: Democratic candidate at the.
17:20
Speaker 4: Top of that ballot.
17:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:22
Speaker 1: I mean, just examples there. In 2016, there were some
17:26
Speaker 1: ballot measures that Everytown and Bloomberg and a bunch of
17:30
Speaker 1: great– gun violence organizations put on the ballots in different states.
17:34
Speaker 1: In Maine, voters in Maine favored Hillary Clinton over Trump
17:38
Speaker 1: by three points, but defeated a ballot measure for universal
17:42
Speaker 1: background checks by two points. And that year, Clinton also
17:46
Speaker 1: ran slightly ahead of background check ballot measures that did
17:50
Speaker 1: pass in Nevada and California. So that just goes to
17:55
Speaker 1: tell you how much work we have to do, not
17:58
Speaker 1: only to persuade Democratic senators who love the filibuster and
18:02
Speaker 1: Republican senators who have been blocking gun control for a
18:06
Speaker 1: decade or more, but each other, voters in other states,
18:10
Speaker 1: because you're a ballot measure that the voters can just
18:14
Speaker 1: vote on with no politician attached in Maine, where Hillary
18:18
Speaker 1: Clinton wins by three points, still loses. And that just
18:20
Speaker 1: tells you sort of the challenge.
18:22
Speaker 2: And that's actually the harder question to wrestle with, right?
18:26
Speaker 2: Because the story we like to tell ourselves is the
18:28
Speaker 2: American people are 89% United on these issues, but for
18:33
Speaker 2: some cowardly politicians and the power of NRA lobbyists and money,
18:38
Speaker 2: this would be passed. And we actually have a much
18:41
Speaker 2: bigger cultural problem in this country when it comes to guns.
18:43
Speaker 1: I will say that if you think about where the
18:46
Speaker 1: democratic party has moved on this and you look at
18:49
Speaker 1: what happened, uh, after new town, where again, so for
18:54
Speaker 1: people who don't know this after new town, um, Joe
18:59
Speaker 1: Manchin and Pat Toomey, conservative Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania, who
19:03
Speaker 1: is now retiring, worked together on a background check legislation,
19:09
Speaker 1: universal background checks. And it was like, okay, well, this
19:12
Speaker 1: could pass. We got Joe Manchin, who's no one's favorite
19:15
Speaker 1: idea of a liberal, Pat Toomey, who's super conservative, doing
19:19
Speaker 1: gun control legislation, and maybe this will get enough votes.
19:23
Speaker 1: And Newtown just happened, and we just watched elementary school
19:26
Speaker 1: children murdered. And it got 55 votes, including Manchin, Susan Collins,
19:34
Speaker 1: and Pat Toomey. Needed 60. There were one, two, three, four,
19:39
Speaker 1: four Democrats voting against it who were no longer in
19:43
Speaker 1: the Senate. If you think that Joe Manchin's bad. we
19:46
Speaker 1: had back then we had some we had some more
19:48
Speaker 1: Joe Manchins. They're even further to the right. Dianne Feinstein
19:51
Speaker 1: at the same time proposed a renewal of the 2004
19:54
Speaker 1: assault weapons ban that only got 40 votes after Newtown
19:59
Speaker 1: lost all the Republicans and all those Dems that aren't
20:01
Speaker 1: there anymore. And it lost the following Democrats who are
20:04
Speaker 1: still there today. Joe Manchin, John Tester, And Mark Warner
20:08
Speaker 1: and Michael Bennett, those two have since changed their position
20:11
Speaker 1: and now favor an assault weapons ban. So the Democratic
20:14
Speaker 1: coalition that we now have in the House, in the Senate,
20:17
Speaker 1: is actually closer to a majority favoring the assault weapons
20:21
Speaker 1: ban than we've had before. And again, we've said this
20:24
Speaker 1: now for voting rights. We have said this now for abortion.
20:29
Speaker 1: But if you look at Pennsylvania, John Fetterman, he's for
20:32
Speaker 1: an assault weapons ban. So you replace Pat Toomey with
20:35
Speaker 1: John Fetterman, you got one more senator that can cancel
20:38
Speaker 1: out Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema. He's also for getting
20:40
Speaker 1: rid of the filibuster. You look at Wisconsin, the leading
20:44
Speaker 1: Democratic candidates in Wisconsin, where Ron Johnson is senator, also
20:48
Speaker 1: favor assault weapons ban, also favor getting rid of the
20:50
Speaker 1: filibuster to pass things like voting rights and abortion rights
20:54
Speaker 1: and gun control legislation. So again, if we can somehow
20:59
Speaker 1: reelect the House, Democratic House, reelect the Democratic Senate and
21:02
Speaker 1: flip two seats, Suddenly, we actually can start talking about
21:05
Speaker 1: assault weapons bans. But that's the work that has to
21:07
Speaker 1: be done. And it is not fucking easy because it
21:10
Speaker 1: is a really brutal political environment. But that is the
21:14
Speaker 1: path forward right now. And that's, you know, like you said, Dan,
21:17
Speaker 1: it's like you look at all these polls and it
21:19
Speaker 1: starts frustrating you because you're like, some of these gun
21:22
Speaker 1: control policies are getting 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% if it's
21:26
Speaker 1: background checks. And you're just like, well, what the hell
21:28
Speaker 1: is going on? But again, it comes down to everything else.
21:32
Speaker 1: It comes down to the same thing everything else has
21:34
Speaker 1: come down to, the Senate and the existence of the filibuster.
21:39
Speaker 4: Right?
21:39
Speaker 1: Or is there anything else I'm missing?
21:41
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, those are the problems. I think it
21:45
Speaker 2: is easy and understandable to throw up your hands and say,
21:49
Speaker 2: fuck this.
21:50
Speaker 4: Right?
21:50
Speaker 2: Nothing happened after Newtown. Nothing happened after El Paso. Nothing
21:53
Speaker 2: happened after Park. You know, on and on and on.
21:57
Speaker 2: But there is, you know, one of the people who
21:58
Speaker 2: has been... optimistic and hopeful that this time could be
22:02
Speaker 2: different than some progress could be made is David Hogg,
22:04
Speaker 2: who is one of the survivors from the mass shooting
22:08
Speaker 2: at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. And
22:11
Speaker 2: one of his points is that even in Florida, a
22:16
Speaker 2: state with Rick Scott as their governor at the time
22:18
Speaker 2: and Republican legislators, they passed some gun laws after Parkland.
22:24
Speaker 2: Is it everything?
22:24
Speaker 1: No.
22:25
Speaker 3: No.
22:26
Speaker 2: Far from it. But it's something. And some lives will
22:28
Speaker 2: be saved. So there is– to say that all of
22:31
Speaker 2: the activism and the organizing and the voting will lead
22:33
Speaker 2: to nothing I think is incorrect. It has a self-fulfilling
22:36
Speaker 2: prophecy because there are elements of progress. There were incredibly
22:39
Speaker 2: important laws passed in Connecticut after Newtown.
22:43
Speaker 1: Yes.
22:43
Speaker 2: And like you need Congress. You need national laws in
22:47
Speaker 2: this situation because Republicans love to point at Chicago. Like
22:49
Speaker 2: Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws. Look at
22:51
Speaker 2: the murder rate. The problem in Chicago is it's next
22:54
Speaker 2: to Indiana, which is some of the least strict gun
22:56
Speaker 2: laws in the country. So people just go to Indiana
22:57
Speaker 2: and buy guns and bring them back to Illinois. But
23:01
Speaker 2: it is frustrating and painful and disillusioning and everything else.
23:07
Speaker 2: But there are only two options here. It's either keep
23:11
Speaker 2: pushing this fucking boulder up a hill to try to
23:13
Speaker 2: get some stuff done and save some lives or give up.
23:16
Speaker 2: And giving up in a world in which we're just
23:18
Speaker 2: going to sit by and let our children be slaughtered
23:20
Speaker 2: in schools is not an option. And so I understand
23:24
Speaker 2: why it's frustrating. Even when we started talking about doing
23:26
Speaker 2: this podcast today, the idea of giving people calls to
23:29
Speaker 2: action about what to do seems so hollow and empty.
23:32
Speaker 2: But there's no other choice.
23:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:35
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to Senator Padilla about what's going
23:38
Speaker 1: on in Congress because I know there's a new push
23:41
Speaker 1: to get something done. Let's you and I talk about
23:43
Speaker 1: it for a second. So the Democratic House has passed
23:47
Speaker 1: a pair of background check bills. There'd be universal background checks.
23:51
Speaker 1: Early on Wednesday, Chuck Schumer made it sound like he
23:53
Speaker 1: wasn't going to hold a vote on those because it
23:55
Speaker 1: would fail. Later on Wednesday, he said, we are going
23:59
Speaker 1: to vote on gun legislation and that he'd use the
24:01
Speaker 1: domestic terrorism bill that was introduced in the wake of
24:03
Speaker 1: the Buffalo massacre to begin debate on gun safety amendments.
24:07
Speaker 1: Joe Manchin, of course, said he still doesn't want to
24:09
Speaker 1: get rid of the filibuster, even though he supports universal
24:11
Speaker 1: background checks. While Kyrsten Sinema said she wants to work
24:14
Speaker 1: with Republicans on a compromise bill. There's also reports this morning,
24:18
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, that that Schumer told Chris Murphy to go
24:22
Speaker 1: talk to Republicans and work with them to try to
24:25
Speaker 1: find a compromise. I guess Chris Murphy had been working
24:28
Speaker 1: with John Cornyn for like the last year on a
24:30
Speaker 1: potential compromise on red flag laws or background checks. Nothing
24:34
Speaker 1: came of it. Where does all this leave us?
24:37
Speaker 2: I think it leaves us with a slight hope for
24:43
Speaker 2: a small solution to a big problem. Like it is
24:48
Speaker 2: possible that they will be able to come together on
24:51
Speaker 2: a red flag law. I think Schumer said, according to Murphy,
24:54
Speaker 2: he was going to give them 10 days to try
24:55
Speaker 2: to figure it out before they had a vote. And
24:58
Speaker 2: if they can get something done, great. We should be
25:00
Speaker 2: clear a red flag law would not have done a
25:02
Speaker 2: single thing to stop what happened in Texas. But any
25:07
Speaker 2: progress is good. Any victory makes the next victory a
25:12
Speaker 2: little bit easier. So we can pass a red flag
25:15
Speaker 2: law now. It may create an opening. You can pass
25:17
Speaker 2: a universal background check after that. and then maybe assault
25:20
Speaker 2: weapons after that. Just because you can't solve the whole
25:23
Speaker 2: problem is not an argument to solve none of the
25:26
Speaker 2: problem right now if you can do it. I'm not
25:27
Speaker 2: saying it's easy, I'm not saying it's likely, but it
25:29
Speaker 2: may be possible and it's worth the effort.
25:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a good example of that is one of
25:34
Speaker 1: the House background check bills. It was introduced by Jim Clyburn.
25:38
Speaker 1: It closes the Charleston loophole in reference to the massacre
25:43
Speaker 1: in Charleston in 2015 at that church. And that's an
25:50
Speaker 1: example of if that loophole had been closed, that killer
25:53
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to purchase that gun and maybe
25:55
Speaker 1: those people would be alive today. So you're absolutely right
25:57
Speaker 1: that some of this stuff sounds like it's just nibbling
26:00
Speaker 1: around the edges and it's minor and some of it is.
26:03
Speaker 1: But again, if you can save one life, right, why
26:07
Speaker 1: not fucking do it? Why not do everything you can
26:09
Speaker 1: to do it? Here's what Beto O'Rourke has decided to
26:12
Speaker 1: do about all this. He's running for governor of Texas.
26:14
Speaker 1: He showed up at Greg Abbott's press conference on Wednesday.
26:17
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. Yeah, he's the one who's out
26:31
Speaker 1: of line. What'd you think of that, Dan? I was
26:35
Speaker 1: proud of Beto.
26:36
Speaker 2: Me too. I mean, you and I know Beto a
26:38
Speaker 2: little bit. We spent some time with him over the
26:40
Speaker 2: years and there is nothing, he's one of the most
26:43
Speaker 2: earnest politicians ever. There is nothing This is not a stunt.
26:47
Speaker 2: This is his true, authentic, emotional response to this carnage.
26:55
Speaker 2: And it's coming not long after it happened in his
26:57
Speaker 2: hometown of El Paso. And I think, like, is it
27:02
Speaker 2: a good political move? Is it a bad political move?
27:03
Speaker 2: Does it help us get something done? Does it not
27:05
Speaker 2: help us get something done? I don't have any idea.
27:07
Speaker 2: There's been a really stupid debate about that on Twitter.
27:09
Speaker 2: And obviously, Republicans have latched on this to try to
27:11
Speaker 2: make this whole thing partisan. And that's going to happen anyway.
27:15
Speaker 2: Only thing I would say about this is the normal
27:20
Speaker 2: course of business has gotten us nowhere. The trying to
27:24
Speaker 2: solve the problem through traditional political means and strategies has
27:29
Speaker 2: gotten us nowhere. And there's a reason, I think, that
27:33
Speaker 2: Steve Kerr, the coach of the Warriors, his remarks at
27:36
Speaker 2: a press conference went viral. There's a reason that Chris Murphy,
27:38
Speaker 2: Senator of Connecticut, his remarks on the floor of the
27:40
Speaker 2: Senate went viral. And the reason that people reacted to
27:42
Speaker 2: Beto's the way they did is that they want to
27:45
Speaker 2: see someone reflect their anger, to realize that this is
27:51
Speaker 2: an insane fucking way to run a country. It's insane.
27:54
Speaker 2: It makes no sense. It boggles the mind that this happens.
27:59
Speaker 2: And then we all go, you know, we're talking about
28:01
Speaker 2: it today. People are talking about it. We're all going
28:03
Speaker 2: to go back to our lives tomorrow. Everyone still has
28:04
Speaker 2: to take their kids to school today. And to see
28:05
Speaker 2: someone say, just to stand up and say, this is
28:07
Speaker 2: fucking crazy. We have to do something about it, like
28:10
Speaker 2: mean something to people. And I think we have to
28:14
Speaker 2: Why open our eyes to the fact that we may
28:16
Speaker 2: need different, more aggressive, more confrontational approaches to calling the
28:23
Speaker 2: question here and raising people's awareness of what is happening
28:27
Speaker 2: in this country? I don't know what the other option is.
28:32
Speaker 1: Also, this is just showing up at a public press
28:35
Speaker 1: conference and peacefully protesting.
28:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, civil disobedience. That's what we're talking about. We're talking
28:41
Speaker 2: about civil disobedience.
28:42
Speaker 1: Entirely within the realm. But look, to your point about Beto,
28:44
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about what is politically wise to
28:47
Speaker 1: do on this show. The reason we do this is
28:49
Speaker 1: because you need to think about politics to build winning
28:51
Speaker 1: coalitions and to get stuff done, right? That is a
28:54
Speaker 1: core thing here. Beto, during the presidential primary, clearly did
28:58
Speaker 1: not think much about the politics when he said that
29:00
Speaker 1: he wanted to do an assault weapons buyback program because
29:03
Speaker 1: the politics weren't that great. He did not care because
29:06
Speaker 1: he cares more about that issue. And that was every
29:10
Speaker 1: once in a while as a politician, when you're running
29:11
Speaker 1: for office, you think to yourself like, Yes, I'm trying
29:14
Speaker 1: to win here, but you know what? Why am I
29:16
Speaker 1: in this race? Why am I doing this? Why did I, like,
29:19
Speaker 1: you know, sacrifice all this time in my life if
29:23
Speaker 1: it's not to speak my mind about what I fucking
29:26
Speaker 1: care about and what I believe in? And I'm going
29:28
Speaker 1: to try to persuade people that I'm right. And that's
29:30
Speaker 1: what Beto O'Rourke's doing. And I don't, you know, he's
29:32
Speaker 1: obviously not favored in this election against Greg Abbott because, again,
29:37
Speaker 1: the political environment is terrible, but he's leaving it all
29:39
Speaker 1: out on the field. That's for sure. And it's good
29:43
Speaker 1: to see that. So one last thing. If anyone wants
29:46
Speaker 1: to help, if you want to get involved, if you
29:49
Speaker 1: go to votesave.us slash Texas, we have three ways to give.
29:52
Speaker 1: You can give to the elementary school relief fund to
29:56
Speaker 1: help folks in Texas. You can donate blood. We have
29:59
Speaker 1: a link there. And then, of course, you can donate
30:01
Speaker 1: to register voters in Texas. They need all the help
30:04
Speaker 1: they can get down there. And so go to votesave.us
30:08
Speaker 1: slash Texas if you'd like to help. When we come back,
30:11
Speaker 1: I will talk to Senator Alex Padilla. Joining us now
30:23
Speaker 1: to talk more about potential action in Congress on gun violence,
30:26
Speaker 1: our senator from California, Alex Padilla. Welcome back to the pod, Senator.
30:31
Speaker 4: Good to be back, although I wish I was there
30:33
Speaker 4: in person. That'll have to be next time.
30:35
Speaker 1: Next time, for sure. You just held a press conference
30:38
Speaker 1: on gun violence with Senator Murphy and some of your
30:40
Speaker 1: other colleagues. What was the message that you all wanted
30:42
Speaker 1: to get across at that event?
30:45
Speaker 4: Look, I think it's important to share that. It wasn't
30:48
Speaker 4: just a few senators, Democratic senators, standing together pushing for
30:55
Speaker 4: common sense gun safety legislation to come up for a
30:58
Speaker 4: vote in the Senate.
31:00
Speaker 3: We joined. We weren't joined by it.
31:02
Speaker 4: We joined Moms Demand Action, Students Demand Action, so many
31:07
Speaker 4: other advocates and activists around this cause because enough is enough.
31:12
Speaker 4: We say after every tragedy, tragedies that could be prevented
31:17
Speaker 4: if we made progress on things like assault weapons ban,
31:22
Speaker 4: improving background checks, et cetera, we could get into more detail,
31:26
Speaker 4: but that's what the press conference is about, still reeling
31:28
Speaker 4: from the trauma, from the pain of the tragedy in Ovalde, Texas,
31:34
Speaker 4: which comes on the heels of a shooting at a
31:37
Speaker 4: church in Laguna Woods in Southern California, which came on
31:40
Speaker 4: the heels of a shooting at a grocery store in Buffalo,
31:44
Speaker 4: New York. You know, we're pleading with our Republican colleagues,
31:48
Speaker 4: wake up, wake up. It's our job to do something
31:51
Speaker 4: about it, keep our country safer and And my God,
31:55
Speaker 4: if the loss of 19 young souls doesn't move you,
32:00
Speaker 4: you know what?
32:02
Speaker 3: What will?
32:02
Speaker 4: So our hearts, our prayers, our condolences go out to
32:05
Speaker 4: the families of all the Texas of the 19 students
32:09
Speaker 4: and two teachers in the entire community.
32:12
Speaker 1: There's reporting this morning that Senator Murphy and others are
32:15
Speaker 1: going to try to find 10 Senate Republicans to work
32:18
Speaker 1: with on compromise gun safety legislation. What kind of policies
32:23
Speaker 1: are in consideration there? What kind of policies do you
32:25
Speaker 1: think Republicans might potentially support?
32:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question because, you know, we're pounding
32:31
Speaker 4: our fist a lot. But what is a realistic hope
32:34
Speaker 4: for progress and action here? And I want to take
32:37
Speaker 4: a moment to just applaud my colleague, Senator Murphy. When
32:41
Speaker 4: I joined the Senate last year, he reached out as
32:43
Speaker 4: one of the few, one of the very few senators
32:47
Speaker 4: with young children. He's got a fourth grader amongst his kids.
32:52
Speaker 4: I have a third grader and a first grader, my
32:55
Speaker 4: two younger of three children.
32:58
Speaker 3: And so we.
32:59
Speaker 4: Approach this conversation and we react to an incident like Ubaldi, Texas.
33:03
Speaker 4: It's not just as policymakers, but it's as parents. So
33:07
Speaker 4: maybe it's extra gut-wrenching for us. But there are areas
33:11
Speaker 4: where I think it's possible to make progress. There is
33:16
Speaker 4: bipartisan support. for things like strengthening background checks. There is
33:21
Speaker 4: bipartisan support for red flag laws.
33:25
Speaker 3: For example.
33:25
Speaker 4: A few years ago, it was Senator Blumenthal from Connecticut
33:29
Speaker 4: and Senator Graham that introduced a measure. The challenge is,
33:34
Speaker 4: and just to be realistic with people and be honest
33:38
Speaker 4: with people, given both the makeup and the rules of
33:41
Speaker 4: the Senate that you're all too familiar with, the filibuster,
33:44
Speaker 4: first of all, but even without a filibuster, we're working
33:47
Speaker 4: in a 50-50 Senate. Every vote is precious, and to
33:51
Speaker 4: convince one, two, three, four, five Republicans is encouraging, but
33:56
Speaker 4: when you need 10 to agree to specific language on
34:00
Speaker 4: any of these proposals, that's a tall task. But I'm
34:04
Speaker 4: reminded every day that I didn't seek this job because
34:07
Speaker 4: I thought it'd be easy. I sought this job because
34:09
Speaker 4: I know it's important. And what could be more important
34:12
Speaker 4: than creating safer environments for our children in our communities
34:17
Speaker 4: and in our schools.
34:19
Speaker 1: If Republicans do continue to resist any kind of compromise,
34:24
Speaker 1: what do you tell people who ask, like, what's the
34:26
Speaker 1: path forward here? Is it just what I tell people is,
34:30
Speaker 1: you know, we got to return all the Democratic senators
34:32
Speaker 1: that we have and then elect two more who are
34:36
Speaker 1: anti-filibuster and pro-choice, pro-gun-safety, pro-voting rights. I don't know what
34:44
Speaker 1: else to say. Is that what you tell people?
34:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.
34:48
Speaker 4: Our commitment, if you're truly committed to this cause, you know,
34:50
Speaker 4: the bottom line is we cannot give up and we
34:53
Speaker 4: will not give up until we pass more gun safety legislation.
34:58
Speaker 4: And so people may say, well, why waste your time
35:00
Speaker 4: talking to Republicans? Well, you know, I can't go home
35:03
Speaker 4: and look my kids in the eye and say I
35:05
Speaker 4: did everything I could if I don't keep trying. So
35:08
Speaker 4: we're going to keep trying and we hope for progress.
35:11
Speaker 4: But yes, whether we are able to get another bill
35:15
Speaker 4: through this year or not, I will be pleading with
35:19
Speaker 4: voters across California and beyond to keep this in mind
35:23
Speaker 4: when we go vote in November. If you care about
35:26
Speaker 4: gun safety, if you care about whether kids are safe
35:29
Speaker 4: at school or not anywhere in America, then that should
35:32
Speaker 4: influence who you vote for this November. You bring up
35:36
Speaker 4: a couple of other issues that we haven't made progress
35:38
Speaker 4: on because of the filibuster, whether it's long overdue immigration reform,
35:44
Speaker 4: codifying Roe v. Wade protections, equality, criminal justice reform, more
35:51
Speaker 4: aggressive climate action, and so much more. And to top
35:54
Speaker 4: it off, to top it off, I mean, it seems
35:56
Speaker 4: like eons ago, it was just a couple of weeks
35:58
Speaker 4: ago when the world learned about this leaked draft opinion
36:02
Speaker 4: from the Supreme Court's that would undo the 50 years
36:06
Speaker 4: of protection of Roe v.
36:08
Speaker 3: Wade.
36:09
Speaker 4: So yes, anybody listening, keep this in mind. If Republicans
36:13
Speaker 4: regain control of Congress, undoing Roe v. Wade is just
36:18
Speaker 4: the beginning.
36:21
Speaker 1: Our governor, Gavin Newsom, said on Wednesday that he intends
36:24
Speaker 1: to fast-track legislation to tighten enforcement of the state's gun laws,
36:27
Speaker 1: including a bill that would let private citizens sue those
36:30
Speaker 1: who make or sell illegal firearms in the state. What
36:34
Speaker 1: do you think of that, Bill?
36:35
Speaker 4: I'm supportive and I applaud the governor. I applaud the
36:38
Speaker 4: legislative leaders for acting consistent with their words. If we're
36:44
Speaker 4: going to say we're doing everything possible, then you have
36:47
Speaker 4: to back it up. And I'm just so proud to
36:49
Speaker 4: work with Governor Newsom and legislative leaders. I'm proud to
36:53
Speaker 4: represent California because we are a national leader when it
36:56
Speaker 4: comes to gun safety. I'll give you another example of
36:59
Speaker 4: a law that's in place in California. We have an
37:02
Speaker 4: assault weapons ban. And it's helped that the data is clear.
37:06
Speaker 4: The number and prevalence of these types of incidents, while
37:09
Speaker 4: they still happen too frequently, they're down from prior to
37:12
Speaker 4: an assault weapons ban and should make the case for
37:15
Speaker 4: reinstating the national assault weapons ban. It was in place
37:20
Speaker 4: for 10 years nationally, and we saw numbers of violent
37:23
Speaker 4: mass shootings drop. And when it expired, we come back
37:27
Speaker 4: to Republicans unwilling to stand up to the NRA, unwilling
37:31
Speaker 4: to stand up to the gun lobby, And it hasn't
37:34
Speaker 4: been reinstated. And we're seeing these mass shootings far, far
37:38
Speaker 4: too frequently.
37:39
Speaker 1: People are wondering right now, where can I direct my outrage,
37:44
Speaker 1: my sadness, my anger, my energy? What do you tell them?
37:49
Speaker 3: All of the above. Let it be known. Talk to friends.
37:52
Speaker 3: Talk to neighbors. Talk to coworkers. Everybody should be outraged.
37:57
Speaker 4: And eventually, I pray, Senate Republicans will be outraged enough
38:00
Speaker 4: to do something about this and side with kids over
38:04
Speaker 4: the gun lobby.
38:06
Speaker 3: Call your representatives.
38:08
Speaker 4: And if they're already supportive of what we're talking about here,
38:11
Speaker 4: let's say thank you. We don't thank you often enough
38:14
Speaker 4: for doing the right thing sometimes. But for those representatives
38:18
Speaker 4: at all levels, from your Senate representatives, your House representatives,
38:22
Speaker 4: your state legislative leaders, down to mayors and city council members,
38:28
Speaker 4: Make this known that this is a priority. That's how
38:31
Speaker 4: we build momentum. That's how we further influence public opinion,
38:35
Speaker 4: which is already, you know, what, 90% of the American
38:38
Speaker 4: public supports some of these common sense gun safety measures.
38:44
Speaker 4: And ultimately, make sure you're registered. Make sure you vote
38:47
Speaker 4: and make sure everybody around you who's eligible is registered
38:51
Speaker 4: and voting because that's the most potent tool that we
38:56
Speaker 4: have in our democracy, our right to vote. So let's
38:58
Speaker 4: exercise it and make sure we're electing representatives at all
39:01
Speaker 4: levels that put children above guns.
39:05
Speaker 1: Yeah. If your leader, no matter what level it is,
39:09
Speaker 1: doesn't support changing our gun laws at all, fire them.
39:12
Speaker 1: That's what you get to do as a citizen in
39:14
Speaker 1: our democracy. Senator Padilla, thank you so much for joining
39:17
Speaker 1: us on Pod Save America. And thanks for all the
39:19
Speaker 1: work you're doing. Come back again soon.
39:22
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me back. Hope to be back soon.
39:34
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some of the results of
39:36
Speaker 1: this week's primaries in Georgia, Texas, Alabama, and Arkansas. So
39:40
Speaker 1: on Tuesday's pod, we went out on a limb and
39:42
Speaker 1: predicted that Brian Kemp would beat David Perdue for the
39:45
Speaker 1: Republican nomination in the Georgia's governor's race. You know us,
39:48
Speaker 1: we're not usually in the prediction business, but those polls.
39:50
Speaker 2: Not at all in the prediction business.
39:52
Speaker 3: But those polls.
39:53
Speaker 1: I think the polls showed the average of all the
39:55
Speaker 1: polls was like, Kemp was ahead by 23 points or
39:58
Speaker 1: something like that. Trump endorsed David Perdue lost by over
40:04
Speaker 1: 50 points. 74% to 22%. Not only that, the Republican
40:10
Speaker 1: primary for Secretary of State which the polls suggested would
40:13
Speaker 1: be closer, much closer, was also a blowout. Incumbent Brad
40:18
Speaker 1: Raffensperger beat Trump's candidate Jody Heiss 53 to 33 percent,
40:23
Speaker 1: also avoiding a runoff just like Kemp. Trump's pick for Senate, however,
40:26
Speaker 1: former NFL star Herschel Walker crushed his crowded primary with
40:30
Speaker 1: 68 percent of the vote. So Trump obviously invested a
40:34
Speaker 1: lot of time, a lot of money in trying to
40:36
Speaker 1: defeat Kemp and Raffensperger. Kemp was like number one on
40:40
Speaker 1: his enemies list. And he failed miserably. Trump is a
40:43
Speaker 1: loser in Georgia again. He found a way to lose
40:46
Speaker 1: Georgia again.
40:47
Speaker 2: It's his third time in like a year and a half.
40:50
Speaker 1: He just loves losing Georgia. Is this something to cheer?
40:53
Speaker 1: Is it cause for optimism? Or does it not matter
40:56
Speaker 1: that much?
40:57
Speaker 3: What do you think?
40:59
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go against type and say
41:02
Speaker 2: it's a cause for a modicum of optimism.
41:05
Speaker 1: Wow. I was not expecting that.
41:08
Speaker 2: I am not cheering. I'm giving Brian Kemp no awards
41:21
Speaker 2: for courage. No, he is not a moderate. He is
41:25
Speaker 2: ultra MAGA, as our president would say, in every way,
41:28
Speaker 2: shape or form. But I think we can take the
41:32
Speaker 2: tiniest sliver of hope or optimism or something from the
41:36
Speaker 2: fact that Even within the Republican Party, the most demented,
41:44
Speaker 2: big lie believing faction is a minority.
41:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
41:49
Speaker 2: And that is– we saw that in both those races
41:53
Speaker 2: here and we've seen it in some of the other
41:54
Speaker 2: races around the country. Now it is a powerful minority.
41:58
Speaker 2: It is a minority that is sufficient to win a
42:00
Speaker 2: lot of primaries in multi-candidate races. But in a one-on-one
42:04
Speaker 2: race between a– Trump big lie candidate against a generally
42:12
Speaker 2: big lie adjacent MAGA candidate, the big lie adjacent MAGA
42:16
Speaker 2: candidate wins and wins pretty easily, I think.
42:19
Speaker 1: So then I guess, I guess it's left to me
42:21
Speaker 1: to play typical Dan.
42:24
Speaker 3: Yes.
42:24
Speaker 4: Okay.
42:25
Speaker 1: So I'll, I'll do that.
42:26
Speaker 4: I mean, no. Yeah.
42:26
Speaker 1: So the, the let's avenge our 2020 loss by overturning
42:30
Speaker 1: future elections cohort is is about 30 to 35% of
42:35
Speaker 1: the electorate. We kind of keep seeing that in all
42:37
Speaker 1: these primaries. And as you said, in a crowded primary,
42:40
Speaker 1: that's enough. It's not enough in a one-on-one. Though, of course,
42:43
Speaker 1: a crowded primary is exactly what Trump won in 2016. Yeah, exactly.
42:47
Speaker 1: It's how Trump won. We could get that in 2024.
42:50
Speaker 1: I also think that if Trump and other Trumpy candidates
42:56
Speaker 1: just dropped all the 20, if they ever figured this out,
42:59
Speaker 1: and they may never figure this out, But if they
43:01
Speaker 1: did drop all the 2020 talk and focus on all
43:04
Speaker 1: the other MAGA extremism they've been up to lately, like
43:07
Speaker 1: dictating when you can have a family, how many kids
43:10
Speaker 1: you can have, who you get to marry, who you
43:12
Speaker 1: get to be, what your kids learn in the classroom,
43:15
Speaker 1: they could probably win a Republican nomination pretty handily because
43:18
Speaker 1: that's exactly what Brian Kemp did. Brian Kemp was MAGA
43:22
Speaker 1: just without the big lie, I'm going to overturn an
43:25
Speaker 1: election stuff. But he was the rest of the package.
43:28
Speaker 1: Forward-looking extremism. But I've often thought about this, and we've
43:33
Speaker 1: talked about this in the pod when I listen to
43:34
Speaker 1: Trump's speeches, is like there's a part of Trump's stump
43:38
Speaker 1: speech where he's singing the same tune as a Brian
43:41
Speaker 1: Kemp or as a Ron DeSantis or as all these
43:44
Speaker 1: other Republicans. And then that all gets subsumed in just
43:48
Speaker 1: like 30 minutes of big lie bullshit where he's just
43:52
Speaker 1: talking about how mad he is that, you know, all
43:55
Speaker 1: of his grievances about 2020 and all that kind of shit.
43:57
Speaker 1: And he can't seem to help himself because he doesn't
43:59
Speaker 1: have a lot of discipline. But I do think that message,
44:03
Speaker 1: that the MAGA extremism message minus the big lie shit
44:08
Speaker 1: is still powerful enough to unite most of the Republican
44:11
Speaker 1: Party right now, or at least unite most Republican voters.
44:15
Speaker 2: There's no non-MAGA candidates winning primaries. 101 primaries.
44:19
Speaker 1: No Mitt Romneys, no Susan Collinses, no Liz Cheney's, no Kinzinger's.
44:26
Speaker 1: They're not out there.
44:27
Speaker 2: They're not winning. The difference between Trump and everyone else
44:30
Speaker 2: is Trump is trying to relitigate the previous election. These
44:37
Speaker 2: other folks want to overturn the subsequent election. Trump's grievances
44:41
Speaker 2: are personal. Ron DeSantis and the rest of the Republicans,
44:43
Speaker 2: their grievances are collective. It is a collective grievance on
44:46
Speaker 2: behalf of some collection of white people. And that is
44:52
Speaker 2: the difference between them. None of them are good for America.
44:56
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, all of them have the potential to win
45:00
Speaker 2: the next election, be it for Congress or the White House.
45:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's still a lot of other swing states
45:05
Speaker 1: like Georgia where pro-insurrectionists have a good chance of winning
45:08
Speaker 1: races that will put them in charge of our elections, right?
45:12
Speaker 1: There's a lot of these pro-insurrectionist candidates in Michigan, in Pennsylvania,
45:17
Speaker 1: we talked about, in Arizona. So a lot of other,
45:20
Speaker 1: like good that Brad Raffensperger won secretary of state race.
45:23
Speaker 1: Like that is a good sign. and something we should
45:28
Speaker 1: feel some level of confidence about. I don't know exactly
45:31
Speaker 1: how to gauge it. But there's a lot of other
45:34
Speaker 1: Brad Raffenspergers out there that need to win their races
45:36
Speaker 1: before we're in a much better position in terms of
45:40
Speaker 1: Trumpy people being in charge of our elections and potentially
45:42
Speaker 1: overturning them in 2022, 2024, and beyond.
45:46
Speaker 2: In most of the swing states, there are no Brad
45:48
Speaker 2: Raffenspergers on the ballot for Secretary of State.
45:51
Speaker 1: On the Republican side, yes.
45:53
Speaker 2: It's Democrats or big lie insurrectionists is the only choice.
45:56
Speaker 2: Georgia is unique in that situation.
45:58
Speaker 1: Exactly right. So Kemp's now going to face Stacey Abrams
46:01
Speaker 1: for a rematch of their 2018 race. This race is
46:04
Speaker 1: rated somewhere between a toss-up and a slight Kemp advantage,
46:07
Speaker 1: mainly because the larger political environment is dogshit for Democrats.
46:12
Speaker 1: How does Stacey Abrams win this race?
46:15
Speaker 2: You know, we could spend a long time talking about
46:18
Speaker 2: message and issues and the kind of ads you run
46:21
Speaker 2: or organizing strategies, but there's a pretty simple math here,
46:23
Speaker 2: which is in what is even a favorable midterm environment
46:28
Speaker 2: for Democrats, Georgia is a slightly red state. In a
46:32
Speaker 2: presidential election year electorate, it is a purple state with
46:36
Speaker 2: a tiny advantage to blue. And so to put a
46:39
Speaker 2: little specificity on that, There was record turnout in Georgia
46:44
Speaker 2: in 2018. Stacey Abrams received more statewide votes for a
46:47
Speaker 2: Democrat than any candidate in history. Two years later, Joe
46:51
Speaker 2: Biden received 500,000 more votes than Stacey Abrams did. That 500,000
46:56
Speaker 2: votes is how you win. It is getting those presidential year,
47:03
Speaker 2: the people who voted for Joe Biden to vote for
47:06
Speaker 2: Stacey Abrams. And it is about turning that out. Now,
47:08
Speaker 2: if there's any, that is a hard piece of business
47:12
Speaker 2: in the best of years. But if there is a
47:14
Speaker 2: politician who could do that, who has the cachet and
47:18
Speaker 2: the organizing skills and the strategic thinking to pull that off,
47:21
Speaker 2: it is Stacey Abrams.
47:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
47:24
Speaker 1: I think the other thing that she has going for
47:26
Speaker 1: her is Brian Kemp is an incumbent in a year
47:30
Speaker 1: where everyone's pissed. So she can, and I think she is,
47:35
Speaker 1: blaming him for conditions in the state like Republicans are
47:39
Speaker 1: blaming Biden on the national level. Brian Kemp has been
47:43
Speaker 1: governor overseeing inflation, high prices, extremism, name your problem that
47:49
Speaker 1: is pissing off people in Georgia. And Brian Kemp has
47:53
Speaker 1: probably not been doing anything to fix it for the
47:56
Speaker 1: last several years. And because he's been focused on pursuing
47:59
Speaker 1: all of this MAGA extremism bullshit to ward off a
48:03
Speaker 1: primary challenge from David Perdue. And so he's not focused
48:06
Speaker 1: on what people in Georgia actually care about because all
48:09
Speaker 1: he was focused on was making sure that he get
48:11
Speaker 1: out of his primary okay. And so he did all
48:13
Speaker 1: the extreme shit possible when people in Georgia were caring
48:16
Speaker 1: about the high cost of things, not being able to
48:19
Speaker 1: afford health care, making sure that they can vote, et cetera,
48:23
Speaker 1: et cetera. So I do think that she has that
48:24
Speaker 1: advantage as well.
48:26
Speaker 2: Like we say all the time that all politics is
48:28
Speaker 2: national now, and I think that is certainly true to
48:30
Speaker 2: an extent. And definitely running against David Perdue would have been,
48:33
Speaker 2: I think, easier for Stacey Abrams just because David Perdue
48:35
Speaker 2: is a historically shitty and very lazy candidate.
48:38
Speaker 3: One of the worst candidates.
48:39
Speaker 1: Man, that guy is a bad candidate.
48:42
Speaker 2: But there is a way, the decisiveness of Kemp's victory,
48:45
Speaker 2: I think there's a way in which that could inure
48:47
Speaker 2: to Stacey Abrams' benefit, which is the big lie thing
48:51
Speaker 2: is over in the context of this. It's not an
48:53
Speaker 2: election about Trump. It is an election about Georgia. And
48:56
Speaker 2: I actually think Stacey Abrams has her best chance when
48:58
Speaker 2: it is Stacey Abrams running on her all Georgia platform,
49:02
Speaker 2: trying to reach out to every Georgian against Brian Kemp,
49:05
Speaker 2: a bad governor of Georgia, than it is some proxy
49:07
Speaker 2: battle between Stacey Abrams, savior of democracy, Joe Biden, Donald Trump,
49:13
Speaker 2: 2020 relitigation. It is about what is best for Georgians
49:16
Speaker 2: in that environment, in this political environment, with the economy,
49:19
Speaker 2: and the pandemic and everything else, that there is a
49:23
Speaker 2: shot there and there's a way to run that race.
49:25
Speaker 2: It's not, as you said, it's not easy, but it
49:26
Speaker 2: is possible.
49:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, very smart. One other primary worth mentioning, the extremely
49:32
Speaker 1: close primary between Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar and progressive challenger
49:35
Speaker 1: Jessica Cisneros in the Texas 28th. where Cuellar is currently
49:39
Speaker 1: leading by 175 votes out of more than 45,000 ballots counted.
49:45
Speaker 1: Cuellar is one of the more conservative Democrats in Congress.
49:47
Speaker 1: He's anti-choice, has an A rating from the NRA, and
49:51
Speaker 1: represents a mostly Latino district that stretches from the outskirts
49:54
Speaker 1: of San Antonio to the border, where the voters are
49:57
Speaker 1: a bit more conservative themselves. Cuellar was endorsed by Democratic
50:01
Speaker 1: leaders like Nancy Pelosi and Jim Clyburn, who helped his campaign,
50:05
Speaker 1: while Cisneros was endorsed by AOC and Bernie Sanders. Dan,
50:08
Speaker 1: what's your take on this race? Why do you think
50:10
Speaker 1: Pelosi and Clyburn backed Cuellar? I'm going to throw this
50:16
Speaker 1: hot potato to you.
50:19
Speaker 2: Yes. Well, John, I can give you the answer. There
50:23
Speaker 2: is a simple– I am not justifying it. I do
50:27
Speaker 2: not like Henry Cuellar. If I lived in that district,
50:28
Speaker 2: I would have voted for Jessica Cisneros 100 times in
50:31
Speaker 2: a row. Congress and the DCCC are incumbent protection rackets.
50:37
Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi to be elected speaker, Jim Clyburn or Steny
50:40
Speaker 2: Hoyer or Hakeem Jeffries to be elected speaker after Nancy
50:45
Speaker 2: Pelosi or leader after Nancy Pelosi need the votes of
50:47
Speaker 2: other members. And to get those votes, they often pledge
50:51
Speaker 2: to protect them against primaries. The urgency for that pledge
50:56
Speaker 2: is even greater in the last few years since the
50:58
Speaker 2: Justice Democrats and others have been running a bunch of
51:00
Speaker 2: successful primaries against entrenched Democratic incumbents in blue districts. Second,
51:06
Speaker 2: the DCCC is also an incumbent protection operation. Do you
51:09
Speaker 2: know who the largest contributor to the DCCC is? The
51:13
Speaker 2: Democratic caucus. Members raise money. They have to pay dues
51:17
Speaker 2: to the DCCC. They raise money for the DCCC. They
51:21
Speaker 2: pay it out of their own campaign accounts. And no
51:24
Speaker 2: one is going to pay money to an organization if
51:26
Speaker 2: they do not think it is going to protect them
51:29
Speaker 2: in this situation. And so that is why this happened.
51:32
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a good idea. I think
51:35
Speaker 2: There is a difference between endorsing and going to campaign for,
51:38
Speaker 2: between staying out of it and sending robocalls in the
51:44
Speaker 2: last few days. I think that it was a political mistake.
51:49
Speaker 2: And certainly disheartening to a lot of progressive activists. But
51:54
Speaker 2: the reason here is that it is a protect your
51:56
Speaker 2: own industry and they are protecting their own. I don't
51:59
Speaker 2: think that is good, but that is why.
52:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
52:03
Speaker 1: I get all that. I do think there's like a
52:05
Speaker 1: line you have to draw somewhere. Like on one hand, right?
52:09
Speaker 1: Like you have a good Democratic House member in Congress
52:13
Speaker 1: and they get a bunch of challengers and you want
52:15
Speaker 1: to keep that Democratic House members because they are broadly
52:18
Speaker 1: in line with the national party. Yeah. You try to
52:21
Speaker 1: do what you can to protect that incumbent. At some
52:24
Speaker 1: point you think, okay, when we have an incumbent who
52:26
Speaker 1: is anti-choice, A rating from the NRA, this conservative, you know,
52:30
Speaker 1: I'm sure also in their mind is, well, Cuellar has
52:33
Speaker 1: a better chance to win this, you know, more conservative
52:36
Speaker 1: district in the fall, which is going to be competitive.
52:41
Speaker 1: There's a Ted Cruz former staffer who won on the
52:43
Speaker 1: Republican side. And in a competitive year that's tough for
52:47
Speaker 1: Democrats like this, this seat could be competitive. And so
52:50
Speaker 1: I'm sure the leadership is thinking we need every seat
52:52
Speaker 1: we can get. And we think that Cuellar is a
52:54
Speaker 1: better fit for this district than Cisneros. But when you
52:57
Speaker 1: have someone who's this far out of step with the party,
53:00
Speaker 1: with the national party, I'm not expecting Nancy Pelosi to
53:05
Speaker 1: endorse Cisneros, but maybe you just say, okay, let the
53:09
Speaker 1: voters decide on this one. I'm going to step back.
53:12
Speaker 1: I'm going to step back and see what happens. But
53:14
Speaker 1: they chose not to do that.
53:17
Speaker 2: Ultimately, the best way to understand House politics, Senate politics,
53:22
Speaker 2: internal House and Senate politics is high school, right? It's
53:26
Speaker 2: like the high school cafeteria. And these are all It's
53:30
Speaker 2: the same reason why House and Senate leaders are always
53:33
Speaker 2: for pay raises for the members even though it is–
53:35
Speaker 2: the single worst polling issue in history is to be
53:38
Speaker 2: for congressional pay raise is it is a protect your own.
53:42
Speaker 2: I think you make a very important point here. There
53:44
Speaker 2: is a big distinction that we've had a bunch of
53:48
Speaker 2: different primaries and in many cases– I don't know who–
53:51
Speaker 2: whether– Cuellar is more competitive than Cisneros in this district.
53:55
Speaker 1: I think that anyone who's saying that- Another thing that's
53:57
Speaker 1: very hard to tell, right, yeah.
53:59
Speaker 2: It's impossible to know. And some of the arguments on
54:02
Speaker 2: behalf of Cuellar, I think are pretty specious at best.
54:06
Speaker 2: But unlike Jamal Bowman versus Elliot Engel, or AOC versus
54:11
Speaker 2: Joe Crowley, or Ayanna Pressley, or Cori Bush, this is
54:15
Speaker 2: a situation where you have a, this is a competitive district.
54:20
Speaker 3: Right?
54:20
Speaker 2: It is one that a Republican very easily win. It
54:23
Speaker 2: is a Biden plus seven district now. It is 80%
54:27
Speaker 2: non-college educated, 70 plus percent Hispanic. This is where Trump
54:32
Speaker 2: made all of his gains in Texas, in this part
54:35
Speaker 2: of the state. And so I don't think this dictates
54:38
Speaker 2: anything else other than I think it's worth noting that
54:40
Speaker 2: this is a one where the outcome of this primary
54:43
Speaker 2: has some consequences, whether it, whoever wins, I don't know
54:46
Speaker 2: what those consequences are, but it's not a guarantee that
54:48
Speaker 2: the winner of this primary is the next Democratic member
54:51
Speaker 2: of this, is the next member of this district.
54:53
Speaker 1: Politico said that Cuellar's apparent victory is a warning for
54:55
Speaker 1: Democrats who are eager to run on abortion politics. That
54:58
Speaker 1: make any sense to you?
55:01
Speaker 2: I know we are not playing take appreciators today for
55:04
Speaker 2: all the obvious reasons, but if we were, that would
55:08
Speaker 2: be for Politico's because I don't even understand that take.
55:13
Speaker 1: I get, I can't even speak. I was so annoyed with,
55:17
Speaker 1: there was so many things wrong in that playbook. I
55:20
Speaker 1: read it super early. I think Tommy got to it
55:22
Speaker 1: later in the day, and I was sitting next to
55:24
Speaker 1: him in our office, and he was just like, has
55:26
Speaker 1: anyone read Playbook today?
55:27
Speaker 2: What the fuck? You're like, it's 3 o'clock in the
55:29
Speaker 2: afternoon on the West Coast, Tommy.
55:30
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
55:30
Speaker 2: Did it take you a long time to get through Punchbowl?
55:33
Speaker 1: He was doing Save the World in the morning, but
55:35
Speaker 1: I was like, see, I'm glad someone else got around
55:37
Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, okay. I guess it's a warning to
55:40
Speaker 1: Democrats not to run on abortion, maybe in a district
55:44
Speaker 1: that's filled with conservative-leaning Catholic Hispanics. Yeah, no, that is
55:50
Speaker 1: a group of people who may be more anti-choice. That
55:52
Speaker 1: is a group in that district in the country. We're
55:56
Speaker 1: not talking about that for like every other fucking district
55:58
Speaker 1: in the country or suburbs all over the country or
56:01
Speaker 1: place where they're... What are you talking about? What are
56:03
Speaker 1: you talking about? You're extrapolating a national strategy from a
56:07
Speaker 1: single district with unique demographics in the Texas border?
56:12
Speaker 2: In a primary. In a primary.
56:14
Speaker 3: So dumb.
56:14
Speaker 1: So dumb.
56:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
56:15
Speaker 1: They are so dumb.
56:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
56:18
Speaker 2: I mean, it just, it just, they just.
56:21
Speaker 1: That felt good. That was cathartic.
56:24
Speaker 2: We've needed a lot of catharsis, but there needs to
56:26
Speaker 2: be like the equivalent of a five second delay on
56:29
Speaker 2: take writing where it's like, before you can finish the sentence,
56:33
Speaker 2: you have to pause, read it to yourself.
56:35
Speaker 1: Before you hit all caps and bold, just think for
56:37
Speaker 1: a couple of seconds. Yeah.
56:38
Speaker 2: Like there's, there's a warning on the siren emoji on Twitter.
56:42
Speaker 1: Anyway, I'm glad we're ending on that note. All right.
56:45
Speaker 1: That's all we have for today. Thank you to Senator
56:48
Speaker 1: Padilla for joining us. Everyone take care. For Memorial Day,
56:53
Speaker 1: we will have a mailbag episode that you will all
56:55
Speaker 1: be hearing from Lovett and Tommy and I. So you
56:58
Speaker 1: can look forward to that. Everyone have a great Memorial Day.
57:01
Speaker 1: And we will see you in New York next Thursday night.
57:05
Speaker 2: Stay safe, everyone.
57:10
Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
57:13
Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
57:17
Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
57:20
Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
57:24
Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
57:27
Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
57:31
Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
57:34
Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montuth. Our
57:38
Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.