Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Walt Wagner on Building Toyotas for Extreme Overlanding

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Walt Wagner on Building Toyotas for Extreme Overlanding · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I'm here with a very good friend,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Walt Wagner. Walt and I have been fortunate to be
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: able to travel together and do several projects together, and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we just happen to be out here in the wilderness
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of New Mexico on kind of a foggy morning and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: it's a little cold, so we've tucked ourselves into the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Scout camper to have a podcast. We're actually out here
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: testing a Skinny Guy camper, spending some time with that
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: as well. But I've just so admired the work that
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: you have done with the vehicles that you work on,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and the quality of your team and the quality of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: you as an individual. So I'm just so grateful to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: have you on the podcast today. Walt, thanks man, It's
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: an honor. This content is brought to you by Overland Journal,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six with the goal of providing independent
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: equipment and vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning adventures
• 1:09
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• 1:14
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• 1:19
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• 1:43
  Speaker 1: subscribe directly on our website at Overland Journal dot com.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Thanks man, It's an honor. Yeah, I mean it really is,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: like it's been a long time coming. I think, you know,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: just finally getting to slow down a little bit and
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: enjoy of coffee and just relaxed and chat you know exactly.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: We've talked about doing that for a long time and
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: finally get to the stars aligned we can make it happen.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: You have learned so much, not only in your own
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: travels and your own the work that you've done as
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a professional, but then also having now built so many
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: customer vehicles through tav your company, that you've come away
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: with a lot of insights that I think are really
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: going to be valuable for the listener. You know. I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: also want to start off by thanking you for your service.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Out of high school, you were in the Coast Guard,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and then you ended up working around nuclear security for
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: many years. You ended up we'll just call it that
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: you work for the agency.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the agency.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh. You know, we could tell you what agency
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that Will worked for, but then you'd have to kill
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: all of you. So we're going to we're going to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: avoid that or well, actually well it actually said it
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: may be somebody after me, somebody you may camp come
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: after him, So we're going to leave it at the agency.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: What led you to decide that you were going to
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: stop doing that work and start working on vehicles?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Having just done this kind of travel my entire life,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: just taking what I could scrounge up and build a
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: rack from a little samurai, you know.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Put a canoe on, and you had a Samurai. I
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: had a eighty seven. The top you just got even cooler,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: just like somehow Walt just got cooler. I love tid
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: top Samurai. That was my I might as well have
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: been a five door one ten. And aren't they like
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: one hundred grand? Now if you try to find one,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: they're like so expensive.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: You can even drive it. Such an amazing little rig.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: They are rat And it was that was my first
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: four wheal drive vehicle, and how cool was that. On
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: our little test drive, the thing spun a rod bearing
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: and it broke down on us. And it was like
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: a guy came down on the price a little bit.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So we just fixed it in the driveway. When I
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: was in the Coast Guard, I drove it from Philadelphia
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to North Carolina, back and forth, that little thing, you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: because I could just get down on the beaches and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: just see the family and stuff. So it was that
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: thing had been everywhere, you know. It was such a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: good little truck. And a tin top too, Yeah, the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: little tin top. You know, I was like I was
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: in heaven. That thing was so great. Even before the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Coast Guard, we lived down a Risel Beach on a
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: sailboat and we were just on the beach all the time,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: you know, get around on the north end of Carolina Beach,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: south south end of Carolina Beach, and it was like
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: that was our little escape. That was our little mini Safari. Yeah,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and just back then you could camp on the beach.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: You had a bunch of dunes, you know, to kind
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of hide out of the wind, and it was like
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the escape from the crowds down there, you know. So
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: having a little four wheel drive was was awesome. You know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: that little Samurai was the best thing ever.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: That's actually my first memory of desiring a vehicle, of
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: lusting after a vehicle. I don't know how old I was,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: because they because samurais came out like mid eighties, right, Yeah,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't that about when they first started coming out.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: To the US? Samurai like two or something like. I
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: can't remember like the designations, but there were some pretty
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: old ones too that were like even smaller.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe that's right, but I mean as far
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: as in the US when they sold them in the US,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I think they started in the mid mid to late eighties.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: And I remember I was my dad. This was before
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I could drive, and my dad was taking me to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: school and we were on the freeway in southern California
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and here's this motor home and it's pulling a Samurai
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: behind it. But here's the thing, like my dad says,
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  Speaker 1: I've always wanted to get one of those things. And
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  Speaker 1: when you hear your dad say that, and I'm looking
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: at it, and I'm going, yeah, Dad, Like that's the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: coolest damn thing. Because like when you're a little kid,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it's like it's like the ultimate car. It looks like
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: something that you looks like your hot wheels, and it's
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: getting pulled behind this this RV. And I remember that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that memory like it was yesterday, and it was probably
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the first time that I ever really like lusted after
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: a fool drive. And that's why I think I still
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: want want a Samurai. It's why I drove one across
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: the Silk Road. I mean it was a Jimney, the
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: newer version. But so you started off with a Samurai,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: and you started off living in a city boat. So
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: you want to talk about the school of hard knocks
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: of minimalism, Like what did you take away from having
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to travel out of a vehicle so small and light?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: It was because I was into riding. I raised bmax
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and stuff at the same you know, growing up and
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: surf Like we grew up on the ocean. Our entire
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: lit you know, we had surfboards, a little bit of
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: dive gear, you know, our bikes and stuff like that.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: So I had to find a way to carry it all,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and to just take us to where we
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: wanted to go. And we always looked at our cars
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: as mine and our family, like we had Volkswagen Beetles,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: you know, and my dad did the same thing. We
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: just take the family and throw our junk in their
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and just go camp and stuff. But the car was
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: the tool to get us there, so we could carry
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: our equipment with us, and we just made do with
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: building a little rack or whatever in storage. That was
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: just how we grew up, learning how to do that
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  Speaker 2: kind of stuff, just to carry our own mess around.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure.
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  Speaker 2: And then so with a Samurai, now I'm having to
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  Speaker 2: cover great distances. The roof is otherwise empty real estate
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: for you know, for equipment and roof fracks come around and.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: You have to you have to run them so light
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: on the Samurai.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's got to be extremely efficient and light and.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Will center at gravity. And then what I found with
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the samurais as soon as you put stuff on the roof,
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  Speaker 1: they struggled that much more.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: On the highway. Yeah, because of the wind resistance. Yah,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: they think couldn't get out of its own way anyway.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So you know, by regearing the diffs for a little
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: thirty one or thirty two inch tire, sure it did
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  Speaker 2: much better. Still, everything's wind resistance over fifty five miles
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: an hour or so, it worked, you know, kid with
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: no money, it worked out great. And like being on
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the sailboat. A good friend of mine growing up, his
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: dad had a sailboat. They him and his two two brothers,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: his parents a family of five like us. They grew
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: up on a little sailboat and it was a thirty
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  Speaker 2: two foot corn ott of sailboat.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: They sailed up to.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: The Bahamas and all around and came back and lived
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: out of Southboard over there, and we just became really
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: great friends because my two younger brothers and I were
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: all the same age. And as we got older, you know,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: they had had their house and stuff, still had the boat,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: and I was like, well, wonder if we could just
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: rent the boat or something, let's all go in together.
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  Speaker 1: So Josh and Josh and.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I we you know, we all kind of pulled a
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: little bit of money we had and got the fresh
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  Speaker 2: water tank resealed, and did some work on the boat
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  Speaker 2: and sailed it to Riseele Beach and just kind of
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: we did some work on other boats, you know, scrub
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: boat bottoms and stuff in the yacht club yacht harbor
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: there and just kind of earned a little bit of
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: a living just so we could be on the water.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, just learning how to be efficient in our
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: own little ways.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: And learning things. How long did you live on the sailboat?
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: It was It was probably maybe six months or so. Sure,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: it was after high school, and I was waiting on
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: getting into the coast Guard and stuff, and Josh was
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: able to get in a little sooner than me because
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I have plates in my arm and that big old
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: fat book at Maps was like says, right here, you
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: can't go in if you have permanent plates or screws,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: and I was like, well, you gotta be kidding me, right,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: So because of that, we were just kind of waiting.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: So we lived on the sailboat and we fought it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: We fought that, and well my mom did. She wrote
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: our congressman a letter, you know, and they changed it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: They let me go back in and before you notice,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: had to boot camp and then rest is history. So
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: but that was like just growing up on the water,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: wanting to stay on the water, which is why we
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: wanted to get in the coast Guard because we could
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: be on the So I wanted to do heavy weather
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: search and rescue and the law enforcement side of things,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: and that was the drive behind it. So both Josh
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: and I did that and just at a young age.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: And Josh is your brother. Yeah, he's my younger brother.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So you and your brother were both in the Coast
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Guard together. How cool was that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: We're trying to get into boot camp together. But he
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: was just you know, he was a little bit ahead
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: of me, just had a wait time. But yeah, it
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: was It was fun, you know, because we can relate
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: on that even today, you know, And that was just
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: kind of getting our adult life started. But having a
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: nautical background just growing up, you know, really helped out
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: a lot because it just teaches you things. For me,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I'm a very mechanical thinker. So it's just a mechanical
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: way of going through life. And it is highs and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: how you know, mechanical things work, even on a boat, and.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: They're so similar. It's amazing. It's amazing. When I was
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: doing the Pacific crossing in Kailani, the sailboat, you know,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: it's like it's a Victron you know on there. You know,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: it's a you know, it's like it's you know, battle
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Born batteries. It's like it's the same stuff. It is.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: It's the same stuff in you know, Garmin navigation garment
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: systems on there, and so I felt really comfortable, even
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: though I was a little bit seasick at first. Yeah,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I felt really comfortable in the environment because everything looks
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: so familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: And that's that's what works so well in the expedition industry,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: is is it's got to be vibration proof, where weather proof, waterproof,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: doest proof, all these robust systems, you know, and in
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the ocean you've got salt and corrosion in different ways,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, and sun you know, you've got all these
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: things that can happen differently.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: You don't have the high frequency vibrations, but you do
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: still have impacts, right depending on the sea state. Man,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it's amazing how stuff can get jarred on a boat. Yeah,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: it's it is.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: It's everything is always in motion, yeah, one hundred percent
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: of the time, whether it's calm, everything's in motion in
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: every direction. So learning how to how to stow gear
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: and even cook underway, you know, it's just a different
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: way of doing things. And but then when you look
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: at this industry, you can kind of take you there's
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: a very good crossover to all of that stuff. And
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: that was just where we were brought up and what
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: we wanted to try to see that if we could
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: offer something just a little bit different in this industry
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: just with with our My background that kind of led
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: into the later background, which was an immense amount of driving,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: both in a tactical setting, but then tractor trailers, any
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: kind of vehicle and there's a lot of crossover there
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: and even in the coast guard. That's where a lot
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: of my really complex recovery started because I was running
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a crane on a buoy tender and running the pulling
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: a buoy up out of the water. Well, the ship
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: is moving, so you're running cross deck wenches, compound poles
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: coming up and then across at the same time with
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: on a moving ship, these different joysticks in front of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: you are literally running across deck winch with this one
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: coming up with a crane over here, and then running
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: the other one with my chin to try to get
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the cross deck to pull this way. So you're doing
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: all of these things at the same time while watching
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: a spotter because the spotter can see on the deck
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: what you can't see. Running a winch control which carries
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: directly over to portable drive vehicle it does, and learning
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: to trust your spot exactly. And it's one of those
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: things that is so very important when you're driving off
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: road truck or anything, you know, and understanding how traction
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: works and understanding how certain simple concepts work that can
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: be over complicated very easily in a recovery scenario because
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: you've got all these immense amount of tools to your disposal.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Well, which one do I grab first? You know?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Well, well can I just back up? You know, let's
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: start there first, like why am I stuck? Why am
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I here?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Yep?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: You know, And it's a lot of folks want to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: just get get a little hyped up because now they
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: are not incomplete control and they're feeling embarrassed. Everybody wants
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: to jump in. Yeah, yeah, they may feel embarrassed or
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: whatever the case may be.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: But though they may feel nervous that they're going to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: get stuck worse. And yeah, you see it, people will,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they'll start to get bogged down. What's the first thing
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: they do? Go to the floor with a throttle. Now
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: they're so they just whiskey throttled it. So now what
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: it was something that they probably could have backed out of.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Now they're stuck. Yeah, you're right, Like, start off with
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: can I can I back up a little bit, or
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: even before you even start to move, you just back off.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: You get out. First of all, have my air down.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: If I have an air down, I'm gonna air down
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: right now. Do I have traction boards with me? Let's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: get the traction boards underneath the tire, because what'll happen
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: is they'll get nervous and then they'll then they'll put
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: it in reverse. They'll try to get out. Now they're
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: dug in even deeper, where if they had just stopped
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and reassessed exactly, let some air out of the tires.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Let's dig out a little bit from behind the tires
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: so that you don't not have this ramp you're coming up.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Slide in some traction boards. If you've got it, and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: then the next thing you know, you're out and it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: was no drama. But if you just if you just
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: whiskey throttle of the thing. Now you're up to the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: frame and you're digging like you got you become a
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: YouTube video. That's right exactly exactly.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's it's kind of just learning how to
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: thinking on a process through something like that you know
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and understandings that you have, but understanding when to deploy
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: that and understanding the risk that comes with every one
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of those tools that you use. Like you said, you
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: may have to go through where you just got stuck at.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: If you can stop before destroying the environment you're in,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: whether it's sand or mud or whatever it may be,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: if you can just stop, reassess and be like, we
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: need to approach this differently, then you give yourself that
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: opportunity to do so.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: You have to have gone.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Through that first to understand that that's what it takes
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to get yourself out of a scenario like that, or
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: a group of people through through or out of a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: scenario like that before you even get into it. Like,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: we know we're gonna have to winch through this in
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: this spot. There's a huge boulder here that we can
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: go to. We're gonna have to get everybody through here,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: so we don't just destroy where we're at and tear
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: up the trail or tear up the trucks or whatever. Yeah,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: learning all of that, a lot of that stuff in
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a very different environment on the water on how being
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: complex and trying to solve a problem by overcomplicating it,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: like with all these different compound winching devices. That was
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a very necessary tool to use for what we were doing.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: So that was common practice, but we did. You didn't
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: always have to do all these different things to pull
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: something out of the water. Same thing with mooring up
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: a ship. You've got basically a kinetic rope that a
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: ship is tying to appear in several different points because
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of wind pushing one way or something like that. But
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: that kinetic energy is there for a reason, and that
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: thing can stretch like in a really really long ways,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and there's danger zones that you don't want to be in,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: and there's a that is a good tool for that.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: We literally took our small inch and a half or
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: one inch depending on which boat it was. When the
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: coast guard would get rid of some of those mooring lines,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: we had to throw them away. Well, you can make
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: recovery rope with that.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: That's what abofer rope is or what it is, yeah,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: what we call a cur in our industry, kinetic energy
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: recovery rope is typically a dynamic mooring line. Like on
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: my sailboat, I have mooring lines that I use that
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: are dynamic if so that the boat isn't getting jarred
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: constantly in the cause you know, the boat is in Arizona,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: we get heavy monsoon weather and it can get really
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: kind of whacked around in the slip. So you've got
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to have some give around that, and you're.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Pulling from all the other angles too, you know, supporting
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: all sides. And it's just like that with your formal
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: drive vehicle, you know, is way more forgiving, and you've
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: used the right way and attached the right way. It's
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: an extremely effective tool, and a lot of people don't
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: go to that, or they go to the wrong thing,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: like a chain or something like that, you know, and
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: you're destroying other stuff. Learning all that stuff at a
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: young age, you know, and applying it and seeing it
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in a very dangerous and real world scenario just started
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to pave.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: The way for some of that stuff. I can see.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I can see will And that's one of the things
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk in the podcast today is
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: one of the things I've really noticed about your projects
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: is that you focus on reserve capability. I think that
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: as as travelers, as overland travelers, and the more remote
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: we get and the more unpredictable the terrain is that
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: we travel on, that we have to be mindful of
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: do we have reserve range, which means have we considered
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: how much range we have? Can we get back if
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the vehicle has a mechanical problem or if the trail
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: is completely blocked and we have to go back the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: direction that we came. A lot of people will think,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: do I have enough fuel to get from point A
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: to point Z? But what happens if along the way
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the road is completely washed out, or like what just
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: happened in southern Utah where they have these incredible floods
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: which not only blue out roads completely, or the rivers
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: were so swollen there was no way to cross them.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: So you could make it eighty percent of your way
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to point Z and you have to turn around and
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: come back out. So do you have enough enough fuel
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to do that? And now the conditions have gotten so
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: much worse, and the road's blown out, and there's water
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: on the road, the rocks are now wet and muddy.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Do I have reserve capability as well? Does the vehicle
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: have enough capability to get me through these kinds of scenarios?
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: And then the last thing, of course, which is the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: reason why I want to talk with you a little
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: bit later about about full size trucks. Is reserve capacity
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is the truck is the vehicle right up at the
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: limit of its payload, which means you're on a trip
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: with a couple vehicles, one of them breaks down, Now
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: you got to load it up with extra people, yah
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: and extra gear. Are you now way over payload or
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: does the vehicle that you have have enough reserve capability?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: So what inspired you to begin to start building? Because
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: your trucks are unique, like they're uniquely tav like you.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: When you see them, you know that it's something that
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Walt and his team put together and it's you guys
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: are really pushed the limits on this performance side of things.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: What inspired you to build trucks that way?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Because I don't like to run a piece of equipment
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: at its max capacity because if you do need to
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: rely on that thing to go above and beyond that,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you want to be able to get that. You don't
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: want to feel like you're constantly at its limit because
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: you don't want your equipment to let you down. And
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: that goes with anything you're carrying. Pretty much, just wanted
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: to look at a stock vehicle and what is expected
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of it. Sure, so when we when we put gear
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: on a truck. We're adding weight, we're going to add people,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: We're going to add water, things like that. That will
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: change throughout that trip because you'll go through supplies, you'll
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: go through water, you go through fuel. As you're driving,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the truck will get lighter, but then you're going to
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: have you're going to laden it again with fluids, which
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: become very very heavy, you know, fluids, and it's moving
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: weight and a lot of cases, you know, it'll move
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: around if you don't have good certain kind of ballast
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: or you know in tanks, but and roof floads and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. So I try to think about I
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: try to put in a backpacking perspective. If you're physically
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: going to wear something, put a forty pound pack on
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: and go walk with a pair of flip flops on
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: over rocky ground and then cover that same distance with
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: a pair of hiking boots on. You as a person
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: are more efficient, you know, or are You're going to
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: start less chances of injury exactly, the rest of you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: is going to be more efficient for the long haul. Well,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: your vehicle's the same way. So if we can address
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: engine output and horsepower in a responsible way without modifying
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: too much, of the OEM reliability of that vehicle. Then
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: we try to look at that if it's needed, it's
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: not always needed. And where you live too, or where
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you're traveling too, it's you know, out here you could
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: be pulling heavy grades on the highway at altitude, Well,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: your vehicle naturally is less performance oriented that way, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: you're losing a lot of horsepower and things like that.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: That's the craziest thing I've noticed about electric vehicles, because
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: we've started to test the electric vehicles. They could care
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: less of you at eleven thousand feet exactly like that
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Rivian goes zero to sixty and three point five seconds
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: at eleven thousand feet, which is just unbelievable. But it's
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: also like the camper we're in is on top of
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: my GMC and it has a three liter turbo diesel.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I could not believe how enjoyable it was to drive
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: in the mountains of Colorado, or like right now you
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and I are at eighty five hundred feet, how much
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: of a joy it is to drive something with a
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: turbo or supercharger. It's like it's just so much easier.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: It is, and it's easier on the rest of the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: truck the rest of your equipment. And a lot of
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: times you tell people that we're running a supercharger and
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I don't need that, I'm not racing
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: this thing or anything. Well, that's not what we're doing
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: this for. And I think that's what's confusing because when
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you look at like our Tacoma, that is a very
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: complex independent front suspension, long travel racing component list under
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: that truck, But we're not building pre runners. Our spring
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: rates are very different, the valving is very different. Now
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the truck does handle speed far better than I expected
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: it to, but the truck has to be balanced right
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: for that, and we're carrying equipment that balances a truck
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: because there's a lack of space to put things in.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Very different than what a pre runner would be. But
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: it's the strength of the component, the service ability of
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the component, and field fixability of the component that's under
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that truck. But like the kings that are on that thing,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I can rebuild that shock on the bench and it's
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: not if you know how to do it. It's not
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: as complic or painful as people may think it is.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But that is such an important aspect of making I
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: thing handle correctly at speed on the highway, down a
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: dirt road or even just sand because you need composure
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: under heavy compression. Like when we were in Baja, you've
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: got to climb a real long dune. Well, in the
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: middle of that climb, first, you're going from gravity pulling
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: you straight down and you're pushing that momentum into a
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: transition at the bottom of a dune. So what is
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: your trucking to do when you hit that transition? Sure,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and now you're moving up, you're going to be losing speed,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: creating more drag through sand. So horsepower comes to play
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: through momentum. Momentum speed are different too, which people may
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: not understand. But so you don't want to just hit
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: this thing forty mile an hour, right, You've got to
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: kind of understand and it's okay to not make it
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: to the top the first time. Just go as slow
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: as possible, but fast as necessary.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that old land Rover, so I think
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: it's a good one. So much sense it does, you know,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: and having that long travel suspension does allow you to
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: maintain more momentum, so you can come as a dune
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: with more momentum because you can handle that transition absolutely does.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: And back to the backpacking thing.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: If you're standing on the tailgate of your truck and
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you are in a squatting position and you go to
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: jump off of your tailgate onto the ground, well, if
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: your legs can only extend halfway, you only have that
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: much space to brace for impact. Well, if you can
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: extend your legs all the way, you have twice the
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: amount of length to brace for impact, and it's smoother
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: on your body. Well, that's how that long travel control
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: arms your legs can work. It moves into a larger
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: radius so it has more time to brace and dampen
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: what's happening on the ground. So when you hit the transition,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: it soaks that up and keeps your momentum moving up
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the hill without it just driving the truck into the sand.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And then that dip in the middle, your suspension will
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: extend and then compress and the truck can stay at
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a more even plane, moving that momentum up and through
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that and your traction is on the ground where it
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: needs to be.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because a lot of times when a traditional suspension
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: or a stock vehicle, when it hits a bump like that,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you know there's so little travel that you just get
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: this very heavy rebound and usually stock vehicles are light
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: on rebound control anyways. So then you the vehicle bounces
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: up off the face of the dune. Now the tires
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: are in the air, which means that they're going to spin.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: You've lost traction, you've lost momentum down next thing you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: next thing you know, you didn't make You didn't make
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the climb exactly. Now. One of the things that I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: noticed about your vehicles, and I think it's important to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: talk about with the listener when we talk about adding
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: performance to stock cars, is it has to be the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: entire system. One of the things that I'll see oftentimes
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: is someone will put like a rate call it a
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: king shock or whatever. They'll put some race style coil
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: over on their vehicle, but they've done nothing else to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: address the stock suspension. So they'll have they'll have the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: original jounces on the vehicle like rubber, you know, single
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: stage jounces on the vehicle, or they won't upgrade the
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: other suspension components that can be compromised when you start
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to drive faster. So I think one of the keys
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to it, and I do see that in your builds,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: is that right you've added you know, improved damping capability,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: you've addressed the spring rates that you need for the load,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: but then you'll also add additional suspension travel by going
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: with a wider track or a long travel kit. And
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: then I'll also see that you'll run progressive jounces on there,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: or maybe even hydraulic jounces on some of your builds
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that I've seen, So that way you're continuing to address
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and then you're like, all right, what's the next point
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of failure? CV axles at those angles? So you run
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: stronger CV axles. And then I noticed that you'll run
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: upper control arms that have additional range of motion so
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that you're not binding up the knuckles and the and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the various joints on those components. At what point do
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you feel like, when you're giving advice to someone that's
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: building a vehicle, how do you help them navigate through
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that decision process of am I building for performance? And
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: and how do you help them understand that this is
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a very expensive endeavor. If you're going to do it,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you have to do it right. You can't really go halfway,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: even though we see a lot of people do that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and to no fault of their own. It's just
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: they're going to a facility to buy a component. Well,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: it's the person at the facility that has to have
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: an understanding of what that person needs. There's a lot
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: of really great companies out there that make really good
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: parts and components, but not any one part number out
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: of a catalog for a suspension kit or whatever it
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: may be, is right for everyone. Yeah, most people's needs
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: can be very similar, but in a lot of cases
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they're very different. And I didn't want to have like
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a good, better best approach to what we were doing
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: because I don't feel like it applies that way. I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: kind of wanted to set up a stage setup to
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: where like our stage one is a grouping of components
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that I know work really well together, and they're built,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: they're ordered to work together.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: When we order.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Kings and radflows, we work with Radflow too. We can
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: do the exact spec of coil over or shock based
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: off of what the truck has to do, but that
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't happen until I've spoken with that person and I
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: know how they're going to use the vehicle. I know
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: what they're going to put on it, how often they're
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: going to drive, where they're going to drive because that
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: tells me what the truck has to do. But now
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: the spring rate has to be correct for that, so
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: we'll order if it's a leaf spring, will order those
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: springs specific to what it's got to do. But then
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the shock internals are the shock companies get a build
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: sheep from us on what and this is a baseline
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: to start from because we can if it changes drastically.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: We've been able to pull the shocks off of a vehicle,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: say a camper changes and rebuild them on the bench
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and revalve them and even freshen them up, wiper seals, bearings,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: things like that, host fittings, if we need to, you
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: can completely build the thing on the bench and it's
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: there for the life of the vehicle, sure, and it
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: can change as a person's needs change and the trips
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: change over to over time. I want to kind of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: initially find out how they're going to use this thing.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So Stage one would be a more of a simple approach.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: A lighter vehicle, maybe some bumpers weight that's going to
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: live there all time on the truck, but they they
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: don't plan on having like rooftop tents. Well even and
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: you could even do that there's a certain kind of
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: balance that I don't want to go past for that
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: particular stage. But it's stock width vehicle. We're going to
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: run no larger than like a thirty three inch tire
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: on a Tacoma or a four runner a stage one
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: on a Tundra. You can run a thirty five very comfortably,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: and it absolutely changes the way the truck drives for
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: the good.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: It's it's amazing. Yeah, there's something about when once you
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: get to thirty fives on a full size everything gets
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: so much easier.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. Ride quality gets better, Yeah, on the pavement.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: On the pavement too, like everywhere. It just it's what's
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: physically touching the ground. So if that can support what
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: is above it, then it's all about support.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've noticed. I've noticed on the on the GMC.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: As soon as I got thirty fives on the truck,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it just it does so much better on the trail,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: It does so much better on corrugations because it's a
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: larger diameter tire. When I air it down, the ride
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: quality improves so much more, which trans lights into the
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: rest of the vehicles. It really does, It really does,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And I think that the same is true for thirty
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: sevens on a full size forties become complicated. It doesn't
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: mean that they aren't a good choice for some people.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I think that they really are, But it starts to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: get complicated because the vehicle gets so huge that you
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: can't kind of drive traditional trails with it.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it absolutely depends on the platform that it's on,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: and it's got to make sense, you know, and it can,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: it absolutely can make sense. It's got to be considered
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: for what the truck has to do, like does that
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: size make sense for what this truck's going to be
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and what's going to do, because.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: It makes them incredibly capable. Oh yeah, Like if you
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: see like a Prospector XL on forties on the trail
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: in Moab, it's incredible and air down to it's like,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: it's incredible where they're where they will go. It's just
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: important to remember that you have now a much wider vehicle,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: so there are trails that are just it's going to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: be too tight. So just kind of going into that knowing.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Which is another big thing about like the long travel stuff.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: You know, the stage one is stock with the long travel,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: like our Stage two is we'll use it Tacoma, for instance,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: a Coma and four runner are pretty similar. It's like
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: it's two and a half. It's two inches wider per side.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: And that's just the components that we use, you know,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: through total chaos and their arms, their control arms are
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: two inches longer. There's a steering a spacer that goes
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: on your ti rod. Everything is just lengthened inches per side.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: So your track with now is just a little bit wider.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: But there's there's a lot of pros that come with that.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: We can lessen our CV angles, oh sure, And like
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: if you look at my tacoma, because our CD axles
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: are longer, Yeah, they're longer, so it's a larger rates
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: that it moves in so you don't have to So
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: when people look at lyft, we don't lift a vehicle
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to say three inches. The Tacoma on thirty sevens is
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: at zero inches of lyft. It's just adjusted in a
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: way to support its weight at a certain height. It's
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: zeroed out, kind of like zeroing a rifle scope, say
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: for one hundred yards. Sure, my point of aim and
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: point of impact needs to be at one hundred yards,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: so you're zero in your scope for that and you
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: can zero us go for one thousand yards. Same thing
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: with our spring rates, or what the truck has to do.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: If it's on thirty threes, it's zeroed at a certain
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: natural stance is a little taller because a tire is taller,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and the spring rate is heavier, so the truck's not
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: going to sag under its own loads such. But you
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: can have pre load on a coil over the exact
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: same amount. But if that spring rate is heavier or less,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the truck's going to naturally stand higher or lower. So
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: we make that proportionate for the load that's on the truck,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: the tire size that has to move a certain amount
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: of inches in compression from stans from where it stands
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to a certain amount of inches of extension. We want
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: to be somewhere in the middle, so you have room
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: for compression when you hit something, or you have room
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: for extension when you hit something. But a lot of
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: people with these mid travel systems it's stock width. But
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: when you preload that to get your.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Lyft, you have almost no extension travel.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It points your control arms down, which now that radius
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: is shortened because it can't point any.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Further down, and the leverages on it is also very
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: high because you have to get it to start to compress.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: You have so little extension travel you're constantly topping out
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and the the right quality is terrible. So yeah, and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: making sure that you don't overlift a vehicle, like, for example,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: on my truck. I do plan on upgrading the shocks
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: here in the very near future, but it's not so
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I can drive any faster. I mean, I've got my
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: house on the back of it, so I'm not going
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: to drive any faster. I just want it to manage
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: the load better. And I'm actually not going to add
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I mean I may end up adding maybe about twenty
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: mili a lift. It'll be about twenty mili taller just
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: which is very reasonable. Yeah, which is a really small amount,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: because this truck is already two inches taller from the factory.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: The AT four has a two inch lift, so I
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: don't want it to be It'll end up being about
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: two and a half inches a lift over a standard GMC.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: But what I do need is much better damping and
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I need more fluid volume because these ranchos that are
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: on here they just aren't working. They just they don't
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: control the load. They're fine in a stock vehicle, but
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: I need something with firm or valving so that I
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: can manage the load, and that's why I'm changing the suspension.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: But I think helping people understand that if you put
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: an improved suspension on a stock vehicle and you haven't
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: changed the track with you're not putting that suspension on
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: there to drive faster. You're putting that suspension on there
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: to manage the load better and to be more comfortable.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And if you do make a mistake as a driver,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: which we all we all do, we all write a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: check that maybe we can't cash sometimes, and you do
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: have a hard hit, you have some of that reserve performance.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: What I see oftentimes is is that people will just
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: add a coil over onto their tacoma and they now
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: think that they've got a pre runner. It is the
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: furthest thing from a pre runner. You know, all you've
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: done is you've just given yourself a little bit more
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: capability when things go wrong. Yeah, you're yeah, you're exactly right.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: I think there's a misconception there that like, well, I've
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: got kings on this thing, or I've running rad flows
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: on this thing, I can last through whatever. Well, no,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: that's not There's a lot that goes into oh yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: making a truck handle itself right, That speed and balance
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: and things like that and composure may be the exact same.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Like a king on a Stage one is the same
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: quality king as on a trophy truck. It's just different dimensions,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you know, and some added components on that like bypassed
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: tubes and things like that. But overall it's the same
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: materials you know that make it the quality that it is.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: It's intended use is different. I mean, a shock can
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: be a science project in itself, Like there's so much
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I need to learn about high performance use of a shock.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: But with what we're doing here, we've we've found a
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: balance that works so well in our industry. With like
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: the Scout camper on one of our Stage one tundras
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: that we've done for a client, we knew the weight
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: that was going to go into it, but with a truck,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: weight can change drastically just by taking it out of
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: the bed. The truck still has to handle right. Every
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: truck we build has to be a daily driver. It
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: just has to be.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And because most people do use them absolutely in that way.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they got to be safe and comfortab and
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you know on today's highways and roads. But then you
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: want to be able to rely on that to take
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: you out into the bush.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: So there is a.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Fine line to walk there when you talk start talking
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: about long travel stuff. But it can be done, you know,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and that's in the spring rates and the valving and
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But kind of going back to the good,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: better best. A lot of folks think that, man, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: got to have your stage three because that's that's got
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: all the best stuff on it. Well, it's just in
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: an addition of a component. You can have a stage
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: one and work your way all the way up to
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: a Stage three. The stage three just kind of collectively
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: groups engine performance, drive train, which is in the gearing,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and that's when we can introduce lockers all of these
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: suspension components, you know in the long travel stuff. In
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: some cases, like on a Forerunner or a Tacoma, it's
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: a new rear axle lull together. It's a four to
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: nine inch that still uses a Toyota unit bearings, so
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the speed sensors and abs work like it should, so
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: there's no lights on in the dash, but the diff
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: is a much much stronger ring gear it's almost twice
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: as thick as a Toyota ring gear. It's it's insane
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: because I had a catastrophe failure over time that did
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: not know was going on until we were down a
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: bah and it spit a ring gear bolt out of
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: the housing.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Because that's exciting. Over Yeah, that was a blast. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: then it allows you to address track with at the
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: same time, so you can match the width because a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: lot of times people will just put a spacer in
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the back axle, which in general is not a not
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the great greatest solution. It works in some cases.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: In some cases you I've used right, it can be
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: very strong. But I've seen a lot of people put
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: like really wide spacers and stuff like on the front. Yeah,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: because when they preload their mid travel system and they
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: want to fit a thirty five, Well I'm going to
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: put a two inch space or something on the front.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Because when you do that, it draws your track width
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: under the truck, that's right, So they try to space
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: that back out. Now your scrub radius on your steering
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: is all thrown out of whack and you're hitting all
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: kinds of other things. Like on our Tacoma, I've got
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: a full width four nine inch housing. But I've got
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: a one inch billet spacer to make the track with
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: almost identical to the front, and I can fine tune
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: that the strength that is well, we put one on
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: in somebody's floor runner and it's it's stronger than the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: axle looks mounted to. They got hit in a t
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: bone in an intersection, ripped the axel lot from under
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: the truck and the housing was destroyed. The spacer was fine.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I mean that bill at spacer if it's the right kind,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: using the same lug stud that's on the truck. But
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: the spacer itself is a machined piece that's stronger than.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: What it's bolted.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: So, but if used properly, it's a it's a good
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: tool to be used, but it's got to.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Be used the right way, and especially in the front,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and that's something that's important which we won't do in
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the front. Yeah, it's important for people that are listening
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to understand what happens when you put a spacer on
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the front. Modern independent suspension is designed to have positive
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: offset on the wheels because we want the wheels to
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: be inside the flange. For example, when we get close
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: to the edge of a road, or we're on a
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: snowy road and we get into loamy soil, or if
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: we get into deeper snow. If you have negative offset,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: or if the wheels are pushed out or spaced out,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: it's going to grab the wheel and it's going to
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: pull you into the ditch. There's a lot of leverage,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: and that's right, there's an enormous amount of leverage, and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it's going to pull you into the ditch. Whereas if
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: you have positive offset, which means that the majority of
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the tire in the wheel is inside of that flange,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: when you hit that soft material, it's actually going to
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: push you away from that. It's actually going to that
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: resistance is going to hit that wheel, and it's actually
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: going to force the wheel and the vehicle out of
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: that scenario. So it's a huge safety issue. When I
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: see people running negative offset wheels, I don't know. I
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: think that they just used to do that with old
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: cjs and stuff, and maybe it's a legacy of that,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: but there's a reason why wheels are positive offset and
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: they stick in. They push inside the wheel well like that,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: and the wheel is very flat and there's not a
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: lot of negative offset, and it's a safety issue, and
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: so when I see people running spacers on the front,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it's one of the most dangerous things you can do
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: for the handling of a vehicle, it is.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And another thing, the tire is bigger too, so you've
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: got more contact patch on the ground which is going
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: to want to grab whatever's under it. And another thing too,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: like if somebody's going to run an aftermarket wheel, A
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: lot of the aftermarket wheel companies the OEM wheel is
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: a certain width bad to bad, and when they want
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: to run a bigger tire, you can be up against
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: your control arms and looks physically scrubbing on the control
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: them on your sidewall, which is you know. So the
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: wheel companies, because the width is bad to beat, is
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a little wider like eight inch or like nine inch.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Some of them like ten to twelve inches deep massive wheels.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: But that's where what can change your offset as well
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: in backspacing and all of those things. But like with method,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: they method race wheels, they have that bad grip technology
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: like that bad, but they don't make that wheel anything
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: different than a zero offset. But you kind of have
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to with the because now the bead has changed with
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: the dimensions of the wheel are still in a responsible
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: range to where it's not going to want to track
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: the way a really deep offset wheel would be, especially
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: with a larger tire. It gets your tire away from
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: your suspend components. It's still close, but it's not too close.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: It's not touching.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: And it's one of the reasons why I love to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: run a narrow or wheel with a narrower tire. Run
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: as tall of a tire as I can, but it
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: allows me to maintain that positive offset on the wheel
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: for safety and stability. But because it's a narrower tire,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: I could run it on a narrower wheel, that's right.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I don't like to run much wider than eight eight
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: and a half inch white wheel. Yeah here, And there's
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: also even if you run a little bit wider tire,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: there's advantages. Now you may get a little bit of
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: accelerated crowning and wear, but there's some advantages on running
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: a narrower wheel. The tire is less likely to come
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: off the bead. It also keeps the tire very narrow,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: So just being careful not to run too wide of
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a wheel and being careful not to run too much offset.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: So you want it to have lots of positive offset,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: which means it's pushing more underneath you pushing it supportive.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: That's right inside of the mounting flange. For sure. One
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: of the things that I wanted to chat about on
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: the tacomas, because you've built so many tacomas up. If
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you were to talk about, like, let's say somebody just
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: went out and got a twenty twenty two TRD Tacoma,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: maybe they at least got an SR five so they
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: get the rear locker. Is what is kind of the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: bild that you would recommend for most overlanders? Like what
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: would how would you address Like let's say you bought
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: one just right now and you were building it for
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: yourself to go travel in you were planning on driving
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: around all around a lot in Mexico, and you didn't
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: want too many, too many components that you can't get
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: replacements to. How would you build a truck like that?
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: If I was kind of new new to that kind
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: of traveling, or if I was kind of new to
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: what kind of gear to use and all that stuff,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I would just say, put a good tire on it
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: and go tire is physically touching the ground. Just put
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: good traction on the ground and just go, you know,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: just put gear in your truck, your clothes, whatever kind
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: of tent you've got, or even if you have to
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: stand a hotel, just go travel, just go, try to
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: find out what you're what would drive you to want
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: to go and travel. If you just hate the being
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: in the weather, if it's raining or windy or whatever,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: it's just inconvenient, uncomfortable. You know, there's ways you can
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: get out in a nature and be comfortable, but you
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: kind of have to have your trip and your vehicle
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: tell you what.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Is required next, what's falling short? Yeah, and like us
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: this morning, Yeah it's crappy weather outside, we're nice and cozy,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: get inside a hardshell camper.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Windy and snow on outside right now, but we're good
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: to go, yeah, you know.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: And it's it depends on the need of the individual,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: absolutely does.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: And I think because man, look at the little beat
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: up little rigs running around down in southern Baha. You know,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: they go everywhere, you know, and you can do it
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: all these other countries that have just old Mercedes cars
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: just running around everywhere too, wheel drive yep, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: and it can be done. And I think in our
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: minds where like I want to know that my truck
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: can do it. Whether I'll do it or not, I
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: just want to know that it can and there's that
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: can be okay. But then people can get carried it
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: away with that too. You know, we're not here to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: just throw a bunch of components on a truck and
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: sell it because we can. If I built out a
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: fully built truck for somebody and they have no budget,
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: right to just go go.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Crazy with it. Right.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I've had somebody say I want you to throw the
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: whole catalog at this truck. I'm like, but I can't
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: do that. I don't even know what you like to do.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You know, like that doesn't make a whole lot of
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: sense for me to try to build you something that
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what it's going to do. I'm
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: just I kind of really got to know how they're
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: going to use that thing, and I just tell them to.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: If somebody's shopping for a vehicle, whether it's an suv
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: or a truck, I kind of try to dig into
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: that a little bit and find out which one would
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: be right for them, and just get the trim level
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: that they like. Because certain trim levels a Trdpro has
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: a certain color to it, right, So if you like
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: the color, and if it's in your budget, get that,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: get this, the seat trim, you'd like, the interior things
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: you like, because those are things that that we're not
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: going to be changing, you know, So get what you'd
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: like there and a try let's say a TRD Pro.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Everybody thinks that a try Pro is just the shocks,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: and it's not the skid plays. There's wheel designs, there's colors,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: there's trim level on the inside. There's a lot going
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: on to it. And if they did pull the tird
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Pro stuff off, they could sell that like that to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: somebody's got an SR five ye and all bolts on
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: and yeah, and then just switch it right over. So
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: it's not a loss. They think like, oh, I'm going
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: to spend all the extra money on tierdy Pro and
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I'm wasting it all.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: That is absolutely not the case, yeah, you know, And
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: somebody's gonna want the Fox suspension.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so it's a lot of people have done
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: that because they want the color of the vehicle or
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: the interior trim, and we can build off of that,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: you know. It's the components are mostly the same the
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: one big difference is a forerunner with KDSS and then
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: or without it. There's ways we can still make the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: KDSS work. If it's long travel, then we just bypass
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: it and we do a mechanical sway bar in the
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: rear and it handles amazingly, you know, because all of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: our spring rates are heavier anyway. Sure so, but you
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: know a lot of folks are like, well should I
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: get it with it or without KDSST. I mean, it's
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: it's all a lot of that's personal reference. But that's
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I think kind of going back to your question is
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: if somebody just doesn't know or what I would recommend
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: first is just put a quality tire on it and
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: just get out and drive and explore and enjoy it
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: for that, and then put the equipment on the truck.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: If you're if you're going to be putting stuff on
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: the vehicle, I would start with whatever camping equipment you're
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: gonna use, what you're gonna carry with you. Put the
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: weight on the vehicle first, because then you're gonna it's
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: going to tell you immediately that maybe your shock dampening
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: is too soft, your spring rates are too soft. As
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: you're doing that, and you're gonna put a couple hundred
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: pounds of bumpers on the front and back of the vehicle,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: then we can look at what kind of weight's going
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: to live on the vehicle, and then we can we
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: can address the spring rates and the shock valving and
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: stuff like that.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: So yeah, smart, No.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: It's just it's not what everybody wants to hear. Because
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: somebody buys a car, they want to lift wheels and
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: tires because it drastically changes the way the truck looks.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: The look can come with it in the end if
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: you make it work right. And I think that's like
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: you said, there was a certain kind of look with
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: the trucks that we're building. We're not building a truck
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: to be in your face and like look at me,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and this is a loud, you know approach to exhibition truck.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I want to build it to work like old camel
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: trophy trucks, old if stock and stuff. They were stock, yeah,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: and they had roof racks and all this gear all
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: over them. They were built for a challenge. They were
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: built to navigate through certain things. Well that's where that
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: people started to build for a look of that. And
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: if you continue to just build the truck to carry
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: your equipment and the gear and things like that to work, right,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: then that look.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Will come with it.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And it's just a harder way of getting that look.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting how little we need. When I when
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I started driving this full sized truck. And we're going
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: to talk about full sized trucks in a second, but
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I had not driven full size. I'd never
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: owned one. So I thought, you know what, I'm going
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: to take my own advice and I'm going to do
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: nothing to this truck at first, and I did. I
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: drove it stock, and I drove it off road stock,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: and I towed with it stock and then I realized, okay,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: it does need a slightly taller tire. So then I
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: went to about a thirty three, and I still wasn't
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: happy with the tire diameter, and I'm like, I wonder
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: if I can fit a thirty five. I have ten
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to fifty on there. And this truck that's underneath us
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: right now, it's a stock vehicle other than the thirty
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: five ten fifties on AEV wheels. But I am realizing
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: now that the rancho shocks they're underdamping for the truck
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: and the weight that I have on here, because I'm right,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I'm right at gross vehicle weight rating. Because I'm right
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: at gross vehicle weight rating, I can't add any other modifications.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: I can't add a winch, I can't add bumpers because
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: otherwise I'll be over on payload, which is something that
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I think is really important to stay under. So you're right.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: By taking it step by step and learning as we
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: go along, we do recognize that like, first of all,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: we don't need half as much as we thought we needed. Absolutely,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: and also like all of that stuff costs money, so
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: it takes us away from from traveling and spending money
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: on gas and tacos and stuff like that. So yeah,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: gas is a big issue.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: It is expen it's part of any trip.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: It's an expensive thing. So you yourself have started to
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: migrate from tacomas and smaller vehicles to the full sized trucks.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: What did you feel was the motivation for you to
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: make that change?
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I think because we have to use we have to
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: use these trucks as a tool, Like we've got to
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: do hauling, Like I've got to be able to put
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: a truck on a trailer and haul it. And when
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: we first got the Tacoma, that was the only pickup
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: truck we had, so we built it to support the
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: weight that was on it. But we were usually traveling
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: for like to set up at a show, so we
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: were hearing way more stuff than we would normally camp with,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: pulling trailer with gear in it, stuff like that. But
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I was just killing the vehicle, Like I knew, it
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: wasn't set up or designed to do that, but we had.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: It was all we had, you know, so to travel
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: around and do these events and.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: But when we would travel to camp and explore, we
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: were way lighter. A lot of times we'll go somewhere,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: we'll see something we want to bring home with us.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: We want to have somewhere to put it. Yeah, you know,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: and it's fun to be able to do that. You know,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: a piece of drift wood, something you know, and you
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: want to throw it on the roof rack. A lot
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: of times our roof racks empty, Like on the Tacoma,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: there's one Zargus case with the recovery gear in it.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: The other side's got Max tracks on it. But I
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: can throw those anywhere real estate for my piece of
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: drift wood yeah, sure, or anything.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah sure.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: And like on the RAM, the roof rack is completely empty,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: so it's just usable square footage. That's like keeps a
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: truck light because we're not just loading it down with
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: stuff that we might use one day. Now, recovery gear
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: is different stuff that should go with you, but to
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: a certain extent, you know, I like to bland or
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: pack per trip because every trip is a little different. Sure,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: it's just what my background was. We couldn't take stuff
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: that didn't do anything. It had to perform either our
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: duties or our personal gear like clothing, you know, for
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the trip, and that was kind of it. This is
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: really no different and that's the same approach I'm trying
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: to take. Like on our Tacoma we've got the bow
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: and custom bed. Now with all those compartments, well I
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: think half of them are empty because I don't have
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: enough stuff to put in them. I have a house
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: battery and one for the camper air hoses in one,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: and I have a couple of tool rolls in one,
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: but all the other ones are empty. And it's nice because, yeah,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: you don't have to fill up all the space.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly, really don't.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's what a lot of
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: people like to do because they can create There's so
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: many good companies that make drawer systems and all these
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: different things that create usable storage.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: If there's an open space, they'll fill it, you know.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's the old Parkinson's law. Bureaucracies and overland
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: vehicles will be filled to their capacity. Yeah, we got
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: to be able to say we're going to leave this
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: stuff at home. But I do think that we're seeing
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: more and more migration to full sized vehicles because the
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: payload of even a three quarter ton ram, for example,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: can be twice that of a tacoma easily, and if
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: you go to a one ton ram, it can be
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the whole weight of the Tacoma can be exactly can
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: be the payload of the truck. So these and these
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: these full sized vehicles, with the aftermarket support that we
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: have now, they're more capable than they ever have been.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people forget that ninety
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of trails in this country are
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: driven by full sized trucks. What is the Forest Service
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: driving around size? They're driving around a full sized truck.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: When you go along the border, what's the border patrol driving.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they do drive jeeps, but for the most part
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: they drive power wagons around full size trucks. And if
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you see fish and game out about what are they
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: driving full sized trucks. So there are trails, no question
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: that are they're rock crawling trails. They are extreme trails,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: and those are designed for much smaller vehicles overall, But
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: the majority of traveling routes that we're going to do
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: in the back country are designed for a full sized truck.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: You may end up with a little bit more pin striping,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: but for the most part, they'll fit and they're not
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: doing any additional damage to the trail because they're already
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: being driven by ranchers and exactly and people hunters that
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: have full size trucks. So I think that in general,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: unless you need the ultimate performance of a smaller vehicle,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: that you're probably better off with the capacity of a
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: full size Absolutely. Yeah.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people have migrated from
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: the fore Runner and Tacoma platform to like the Tundra
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: or even like the bigger diesel trucks. You know, if
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: they feel like they're pulling out, you know, a lot
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: of these camper trailers and stuff now they are off
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: road capable. Are their massive, they're big, you know, and yeah,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: they're super nice And anytime you make something a little bigger,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: you can fit something else that's nicer in it. So
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: people are finding that I can still get fairly remote
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: and have a super nice camper. Now the whole family
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: wants to go, Well, you're going to need a full
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: size truck to do that, and the right kind of
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: full size truck.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So and another cool application I'm seeing more and more of.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Paul may from Equipped is doing this, and Matt Schwartz,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: who does some editorial contributions for US. You know, they've
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: got these high performance full size trucks like Paul's got
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: a Tundra. Matt Schwartz has got a twenty five hundred ram,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: so they can they can pull their airstreams. Yeah, and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: they've got their home with them and super comfortable. They
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: can park it into campground. But then they can hook
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: the full sized truck. And like Matt's got, he's got
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a super pacific camper on his on it's on thirty
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: seven's and av all the goodies and he can go
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: as far in the back country as he wants and
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: then come back and tow the airstream to the next spot.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely, yeah, because a lot of people want to
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: carry dirt bikes, have something in the bed of the
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: truck and that that can add weight, you know.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: I mean they're they're heavy.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: They are, you know, so they'll carry dirt bikes and
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: gear and people. And then you can have like a
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: like an airstream or one of those off road trailers.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: And some of them are awesome, yeah, I mean they're
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: like this past event Overland Expot Mountain West was a
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: whole row of off road oriented type r vs.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: It was impressive. It was Yeah, it was pretty.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Pretty crazy to see who's coming to the table now
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: with that kind of stuff in the capabilities, you know.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: And it's not just you know, from Australia or South
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Africa anymore. There's a lot of stuff built here in
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the US. It's like that too.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: In the US.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: You can see very drastic differences in terrain, you know,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: especially in the four quarner of state right you know,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: and you can be on both the east and west
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: coast and see what that's like. And you can do
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: all of those things with like one of those trailers.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: You know, for the most part. Yeah, it's amazing, right
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: kind of truck to take it two days down? I forty,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: let's right, get there. Yeah, and they're so comfortable. These
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: full size trucks are so comfortable, they'll spoil you. They're
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: just You're just like, I don't know, I feel like
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: it's a total Cadillac. I mean it's like my I
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: mean I could turn on the air conditioned seats and
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: everything else.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I feel I'm just getting I'm getting soft. Well, we
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: got to get back in that chick. We got to
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: get back on our FJ forties and give our spine
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and adjustment. Yeah, you know, well, I so appreciate It's amazing.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: We're already at an hour talking about this stuff, but
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I so appreciate the work that you do. Tav is
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: very thought You guys are very thoughtful about how you
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: support your customers, and you build some of the coolest
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: damn trucks that I've seen in the industry. How do
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: people find out more about you and Tav?
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: It's very important for me personally to be face to face,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: So I try to get out to as many like
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: we do all the overland expos because it's a place
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: for everybody to collect you know, brands and then people
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: to get together to be face to face with and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: see this stuff in person. So we try to do
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: that as much as we can, and we try to
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: travel like we want to see people out in the field.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Social media is a huge help for a small business
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: like us, like Instagram, you know at THAV try to
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: make it simple at THAV LLC on Instagram. My buddy
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Matt is our marketing director. He does a great job,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: does an amazing job, and you know he's trying to
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: get to paint the right picture and still make it entertaining.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: It's we're trying. We're trying to just be as educational
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: as we can sure, so it's very important to have
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: that interaction. We try to do our best, you know.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It's just to relate with everybody that we can, and
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: we're always going to work hard for you, you know,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: and and just try to get what you need. If
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: it's not gonna you know, if it's just not something
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: that we would feel comfortable doing. It's not any disrespect
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: or anything. I'll try and get the right person involved
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: for you on a build. But there's a very specific
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: way we're trying to go about this and to keep
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: our name attached to it. I wanted to stay consistent
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: and stay within our wheelhouse on what we're doing. You know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: YouTube for us is literally a means of just trying
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: to educate folks on what we just did on this build,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: like from front to back, because that will resonate with someone.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: And we Josh and I literally just did it with
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: a cell phone, and you know, we're just trying to
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: answer questions and you know, and get that, and people
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: seem to love it, you know, and it helps build
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: us up, like, okay, cool, people are liking this, so
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: we're not wasting our time, right so, because we wanted
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: to answer the questions, but I couldn't keep up with
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: the different places they were.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Coming in at.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: So if I can just do that in a quick video,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: you know. And Matt's trying to get that edited a
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: little bit better to where it's not so painful to watch.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: But he's he's doing a great job on that, you know,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: and we're trying to graduate from just a cell phone
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: you know, video, but it's really just there to get
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: information out.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: And now you guys are doing you guys are doing
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: such a great job of that making sure sure that
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: people follow you on social media as well and get
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: in touch with you if they've got some questions, you know.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: And I think one of the things I want to
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: close with, and it was before we started this conversation,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: but you know, we've both lost our moms in the
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: last couple of years, and you said something to me
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that I think I just want the audience to hear.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: But you said that every time you hugged your mom,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: you hugged her like it was the last time you
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: were going to hug her. And I think that for
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: those that are listening, maybe think about that the next
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: time you see your mom, or your dad, or your
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: uncle and whoever in your life that you really care about,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: remember to hug them like it's the last time you
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: might do that. Because we don't yeah, because we don't know,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: we don't know what's going to come next. And a
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: lot of us are traveling. We travel for long periods
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: of time. We may not see our loved ones for
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: months at a time, and it's just so important that
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: we hug the people in our life like it's the
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: last time we're going to see them.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, And I think it's something it can just
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: be taken for granted, you know, and we everyone just
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: get so busy in their rise and work and travel
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: and things like that. It's just important to kind of
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: rain your brain back in and hold that kind of
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: stuff dear, you know, and because.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: You can undo it. Yeah, And a lot of.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: Us are doing this so we can spend time with
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: our families, you know, and we're we invest everything we
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: have in our life to be with our families, and
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: that that part of it is is the pinnacle, you know.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: That's whats important part it is the most so the
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: relationships that we have in our life. So thank you
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: all for listening. Remember hold the people that you love
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: a little tighter next time, and uh, we'll see you
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: out there on the trails. That's right. Thanks for listening. Yeah,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: thank you