Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / Diet Pepsi & Little Debbie Swiss Rolls Are Delicious w/ Jeni Grouws

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Diet Pepsi & Little Debbie Swiss Rolls Are Delicious w/ Jeni Grouws · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
  I do have a girlfriend. She's been in my life
• 0:04
  since before I was married, since before I had
• 0:07
  kids. Her name is Little Debbie. Yes, Little
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  Debbie. She has a Swiss roll that I can't say
• 0:12
  no to. I have also told people that I have been
• 0:16
  known to cheat on Little Debbie now and then
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  with ho ho. Hey, delishies, grab a plate and
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  taste the delicious culture. I'm your host, Jon
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  François. We're feasting on food, pop culture,
• 0:30
  and lifestyle with musician Jenny Graus, who
• 0:34
  I have the good fortune of having a great history
• 0:36
  with. Can you believe it? Nearly a decade ago,
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  I worked for Jenny and her parents, Bob and Colleen,
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  at Adult Album Alternative Music Station, KDECFM
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  in Decorah, Iowa. Thank you, because like you
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  had me graduating from... part -time radio job
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  in Connecticut to my first full -time radio job
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  in Iowa. And I always tell people who are willing
• 0:58
  to listen, it was the best year and a half of
• 1:02
  my life. One of the best decisions I've made
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  in my life, because I just met so many kind people,
• 1:07
  including yourself. And you could have been like
• 1:09
  any other normal boss, Jenny, and just been like,
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  oh, hey. here's a job and you figure out all
• 1:15
  the rest, but you were kind enough to help me
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  get an apartment and help me get acquainted with
• 1:19
  the Decora community. So that was, that was very
• 1:22
  sweet of you. Thank you. That's so funny. I didn't
• 1:25
  remember doing all of that, but that does, that
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  does, that does, that tracks. You don't remember
• 1:30
  doing all of that? No, but I mean. The thing
• 1:33
  is, hi by the way, it's so good to see you. That
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  was a different hairdo ago, Jenny. I remember
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  you had like the short red haircut and now you
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  have like the longer blonde hair. That was many
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  hairdos ago. I am back to what my hair would
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  be and then, but right now last night I was...
• 1:50
  trying to fall asleep. And I was watching TikToks
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  on people going from blonde to red. So you never
• 1:56
  know. Last time I knew you, I was like burgundy
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  red. But I was like, what if it was like a nice
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  sort of like cowboy copper? That would be fun.
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  I digress. I just have to say that I remember
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  all those years ago. I remember hiring you. I
• 2:10
  remember having you come in. I don't remember
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  the apartment and all that stuff, but what I
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  do remember is how excited I was that you were
• 2:17
  coming. And I was just so grateful to have you
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  on the staff because I do feel like almost 20
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  years that I was at that radio station were a
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  real good learning curve for me in terms of sort
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  of the kind of people I wanted to work for and
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  the kind of people I wanted to work with. And
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  while it didn't always match up, I did learn
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  what I wanted in my life and what I didn't want
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  in my life. So now that I moved into music, I
• 2:43
  actually think that was a good training ground
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  for me to sort of decide that. The people that
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  are in my band or the people that go on tour
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  with me, their personalities and how we mesh
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  together is just as important as the actual work
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  they do. And I feel like that was the case back
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  at KDEC. I feel like having you there really
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  added to the, it added to the cool vibe of the
• 3:02
  place. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I had
• 3:05
  a great time and learned so much. I also want
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  to apologize in advance because, you know, being
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  25 and not being that experienced in radio then,
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  I definitely had my slip ups. But no, overall,
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  I just remember it being a very fruitful time.
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  Okay, here's a question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was
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  there a time? Now I feel like I'm interviewing
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  you. Please. No, no, no. I don't care. Go ahead.
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  Was there ever a time that, because I don't,
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  I just, I think I generally remember good things
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  all the time. I'm not a real holder onto or holder
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  honor. Is that a word? Let's call it. Holder
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  honor. Hey, I write songs for a living. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Holder honor. Holder
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  honor. I'm down with it. Yeah. Like the negative,
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  I guess it doesn't, I don't mean that in a hippy
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  dippy way. I just mean that that's not my nature.
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  I sort of feel like the good is what I remember
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  in most things. Right. But there has, was there
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  ever a time when you were like, Oh my God, Jenny,
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  you're not a very good boss. No, no, no, no,
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  no. You are great in terms of like, Being a firm
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  while also being a wonderful personality. Like
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  I loved the fact that we could both like talk
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  business as some people might say, but also I
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  could just talk to you about life stuff. There's
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  gotta be like one time when you were like, uh,
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  cause I think about these things all the time.
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  I asked Darren Swenson once, remember our news
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  director? Yeah, our news guy, Darren Swenson.
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  I asked Darren Swenson when I was leaving to
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  go do music full -time back in 2019. I said,
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  so I know when I started here, you were... pretty
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  concerned and didn't think I was going to do
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  a very good job here. And I thought, I think
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  you were warranted in that concern at the beginning.
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  Can I ask you in the end, now that we're almost
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  20 years in, what do you think? And he was like,
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  I think you did a great job. And he was really
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  complimentary. And I said, what would you say
• 5:00
  is my strength? And he gave me something, which
• 5:03
  of course I don't remember. But I said, what
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  would you think is like, what's my negative?
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  What's the thing I need to work on? And he said,
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  You're very impatient. You grasp things really
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  quickly and you expect everyone else to have
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  the same grasp. And so you're annoyed when they're
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  not at the same speed as you. And I was like,
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  ah, that's the best feedback I've ever been given.
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  That was so helpful because I never. I do realize
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  that's what I did. So that's why I'm asking.
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  Like, I don't, I didn't get inpatients. Um, I
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  certainly remember the days where you were not
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  at your best, which is understandable because
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  you were like program director, general manager,
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  you were morning show co -host. So that's like
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  basically a recipe for just some days are good
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  and some days are terrible. And I had three kids
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  at home and I was running. I don't. And you were
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  doing your musician career. You were doing the
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  stuff with the A .V. Grau's band. And I think
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  you had your other band, Absolute Hoot, didn't
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  you? Didn't you have the other band, Absolute
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  Hoot? So two bands running a radio station, co
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  -hosting a morning show. Yeah. I think you had
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  every right to have your inpatient, irritable
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  moments. Any exhaustion that I have. in my eyes
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  and hair is still left over from that time. Pretty
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  sure I didn't sleep at all then. So here's what
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  I remember. The interview that I did with you
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  and your parents was over Zoom and normally like
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  one would want to meet in person to figure out
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  if it's really the right job for them. But because
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  Iowa was many thousands of miles away, I took
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  a leap of faith and, and, and I again made the
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  right decision. One of the memories I have, and
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  this is a commentary on the state of the radio
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  industry in general, there was quite a bit of
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  turnover in the sales department. I remember
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  one person leaving just as I was entering. And
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  then, and then I know we had 200 wonderful salespeople,
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  someone who also didn't work out. I mean, I remember
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  that and then there was some person who was training
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  me my first week or so, you know, he wasn't like
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  a hundred percent. on it. I had produced some
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  commercials. I was production manager along with
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  the other personality. I've never had a full
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  time production manager capability or duty or
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  responsibility before. So I was definitely having
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  a learning curve for that. There was a time you
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  stormed into the production office and confronted
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  me about something. I don't know what it was,
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  but What was that? I was intense, wasn't I? It's
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  that sort of like you try to put on a polite
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  demeanor, but there's clearly like sarcasm and
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  bite behind it. And then you stormed out and
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  I don't remember what it was, but I do remember
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  thinking like, but I do remember thinking like,
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  no, no, I was definitely in the wrong for that.
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  I just, I don't know. Because like you, this
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  is a decade ago. Work experience is a lot like,
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  it's just relationships, right? And it's learning
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  how... how to get the best out of people while
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  learning how to get the best out of yourself,
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  but also finding your boundaries. And I think
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  like that time at the radio station for me was
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  incredibly, it was a lot of growth time, but
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  it was also the most. like, transitional and
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  stressful time of my life. Yeah. The fact that
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  I didn't come off like a complete and utter jerk
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  is real nice to hear, because I will tell you,
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  you know, I... That time at the... What years
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  were you there? I was there from May 2017 till
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  August 2018. So I left eight years ago this month,
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  yeah. My girls were in middle school and high
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  school during that time. Things had started to...
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  to shift in my life on a personal level. And
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  that causes some stress and anxiety. Yep, for
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  sure. Figure that out. Plus, you've got kids
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  and you're trying to figure that out. I was working
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  for my parents, which, you know, I love and adore
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  my parents. And I am grateful for those years
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  that we got to work together. But I think at
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  that time. we were all starting to feel, I mean,
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  I left in 2019. So it was at that time that I
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  was starting to think like, what am I going,
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  where am I going to go? I need to do something
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  different. Turns out they were also at that same
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  time thinking we would like to sell the station,
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  but we're, but we know our daughter works here.
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  So we don't want to pull the job out from under
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  her, but we weren't communicating. So there was
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  tension and stress in there, both of us not knowing
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  that the other was ready to. Can I ask how early
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  that conversation was when your parents were
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  thinking about selling the station? Oh, I think
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  they had had it for a couple of years prior.
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  So they had already had it by the time I came
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  there. I'm sure. But the thing is, we're very
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  Midwestern Norwegian people. Like these conversations
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  we have because nobody wants to hurt the other
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  one. And you try to do what's in the best interest
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  without actually asking the other person, hey,
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  here's how I'm feeling. How are you feeling?
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  Like, what do we need to talk about here? And
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  so we just kind of kept letting it go until all
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  of a sudden they had an offer and they let me
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  know. And I went, okay, this is fast. Wow. I
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  mean, I found out when I... Basically when I
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  found out they were selling, I mean - And how
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  long at that point had your parents like been
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  in the radio industry? Cause it - Well, they're
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  still in it. I thought they completely sold to
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  one's communications and then just left. They
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  did. They did. The Decora station. But they still
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  own a station together in Marshalltown, Iowa
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  that my folks have been a part of since - 1986,
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  87, somewhere in there. They bought it fully
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  outright when the majority holder passed away.
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  And then all of the folks that were a part of
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  it decided to sell. And so my folks bought that
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  outright. Probably, I don't remember, 2020? One,
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  I don't remember. But they own it now with their
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  general manager, Todd Steinkamp. in Marshalltown.
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  So they're still, they're still in. And my dad's
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  been in radio since 1966. He went to Brown College,
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  the broadcasting school up in the cities. It's
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  just, it's always been our family that broadcasting
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  was. So coming to work, I don't, I don't even
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  know if you knew my background that I had, I
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  had gone to the University of Iowa. Cause I was
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  listening to the podcast that you did. I can't
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  remember the name of it, but I remember the title
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  was like diet coke and dive bars that that episode.
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  And I was finding stuff about your background
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  that I didn't know, but stuff that seemed like
• 11:35
  deja vu to me, like your time in Los Angeles.
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  When did your artistic journey, if you will,
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  start? So I was born. Well, we don't have to
• 11:46
  go back that far. But I will say in kindergarten,
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  I filled out a form that said, my name is Jenny.
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  I am six years old. I have one dog. I have one
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  sister. When I grow up, I want to. And I had
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  written sing. Yeah. I think it was always kind
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  of there. It's just that I'm also the firstborn
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  daughter of a very like Midwestern, again, Scandinavian
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  family where it's, you want to do the things
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  that make everybody else happy and you want to
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  make sure you're being responsible, right? And
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  so I spent a lot of years just making sure that
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  I'm doing things that made sense, at least in
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  my own head. Nobody was outwardly telling me
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  this. It's just what, it was what I felt. And
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  so I went to University of Iowa. I was a religious
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  studies major. I had planned to go on to be a
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  professor. I was sort of focused in on Hinduism
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  and Buddhism. And I had gone to India and done
• 12:42
  a thesis there. And when I graduated, I won some
• 12:44
  money. And when I won money from my department,
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  which I didn't even know I was up for, which
• 12:49
  was really cool, but it was $1 ,000. And I'm
• 12:51
  sure they were like, this is for your grad school.
• 12:53
  Good job. And then I was like, ooh, there's a
• 12:56
  guitar shop. And I went and bought it. And I
• 12:58
  still have that guitar. Does it still work? Oh
• 13:03
  yeah. I use it for shows. It's a Taylor. It was
• 13:06
  an expensive guitar at the time for me. And so
• 13:08
  I still use it. I have a new Taylor now, a newer
• 13:11
  one. So sometimes I have them both if I have
• 13:13
  alternate tunings. Do you polish it up? Do you
• 13:16
  spruce it up or does it still have that same
• 13:18
  like... you know, grainy old school feel. No,
• 13:21
  I mean, it still looks pretty nice. I did bash
• 13:23
  it one time when you were working at the radio
• 13:25
  station. I would go home at lunch. I would go
• 13:27
  home at lunch and and play the guitar just to
• 13:31
  like get some stress out. And it fell off. It
• 13:33
  came off of my strap one time and it swung down
• 13:37
  and hit this big glass table we had in our in
• 13:40
  our living room. And it just busted the back.
• 13:42
  It like put off. And you don't want to do that
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  on a guitar. And I literally went. And then I
• 13:49
  started sobbing and I was like, I gotta go, I
• 13:51
  gotta go. I busted up my guitar. I think at the
• 13:53
  time I called one of the guys in my band and
• 13:55
  I was like, what do I do? But anyway, back at
• 13:57
  the day, I just bought my original Taylor and
• 14:00
  it was great. And then my husband at the time,
• 14:03
  he and I, David, we moved to LA and he wanted
• 14:06
  to work on writing. So I took jobs working in
• 14:09
  films. I ended up working as a story editor.
• 14:12
  for stars, pictures, original movies. So that's
• 14:16
  what I was doing in LA. What movies did they
• 14:18
  release? Any ones that we know? Tortilla Soup,
• 14:21
  Joe and Max. They used to do a lot of original
• 14:24
  programming for a few years with a small office
• 14:27
  based out of Beverly Hills. There were four of
• 14:30
  us in the office. It was a great place to work.
• 14:35
  Can I ask what a story editor does and if there's
• 14:37
  like a prerequisite? Yeah. So I started as an
• 14:39
  assistant to the vice president and then ended
• 14:42
  up getting, um, to move up. Yeah. I mean, um,
• 14:45
  when everyone else moved up, but the story editor
• 14:47
  was basically someone who would see you have
• 14:50
  people that read your scripts that called readers.
• 14:53
  So David did that. My David, you know, David,
• 14:56
  you weren't the music director. David was one
• 15:01
  of my log readers so he was home with our kids
• 15:03
  and they would also read these scripts and then
• 15:05
  they give like grades to it, little reviews and
• 15:07
  grades, kind of like a book report, right? But
• 15:09
  it goes in and the book report is basically should
• 15:12
  you look further at this screenplay or not, or
• 15:14
  it's not right for stars. And because there are
• 15:16
  screenplays that are well written but they may
• 15:18
  just not be right for that, what we were trying
• 15:21
  to produce. And so... The story editor would
• 15:25
  take the scripts when they came in, give them
• 15:27
  another read. So another person would have eyes
• 15:30
  on it, give another report to a certain extent.
• 15:33
  And also was part of like while they're in production,
• 15:36
  when something had been greenlit, we would be
• 15:37
  the ones if some script changes needed to be
• 15:40
  made to offer suggestions. We weren't the final
• 15:43
  decision, but it was really cool. I like literally
• 15:46
  sat on a couch in Beverly Hills with a refrigerator
• 15:49
  stocked with Diet Cokes and waters and whatever
• 15:52
  I wanted to drink while I put my feet up and
• 15:54
  read some screenplays. Is that where your love
• 15:56
  of Diet Coke started? Oh, no. Well, how far back
• 16:00
  do we go with the Diet Cokes? Well, yeah, we
• 16:03
  were talking before the recording that you have
• 16:05
  now converted to Diet Pepsi. Can you explain?
• 16:08
  Why? I'm a die hard diet coke drinker. I have
• 16:11
  been my whole life. I think ever since my mom
• 16:13
  started dieting, she would go to the weight loss
• 16:15
  centers and we used to go to like with her and
• 16:17
  so they would drink like. Presca and tab and
• 16:21
  then eventually diet coke came in and when diet
• 16:23
  coke came in it just felt like a treat because
• 16:26
  I was always kind of a chubby kid and I just
• 16:27
  wanted to I wanted a treat without having to
• 16:30
  have all the treaty calories the diet coke was
• 16:33
  it until not this January but last January so
• 16:37
  in 2025 my oldest daughter Lillian gave me a
• 16:40
  heads up on some practices that were going on
• 16:42
  in coca -cola with immigration policy she was
• 16:46
  like mom here's what they did Here's what's not
• 16:48
  good about it. Everybody's boycott and diet coke
• 16:50
  or Coca -Cola products right now. We're trying
• 16:53
  to make a point. And we did like across the across
• 16:57
  the globe. Coke sales just plummeted for a while.
• 17:00
  But she really asked me to do that. And I thought,
• 17:03
  you know, my kids are awesome. Yeah. They're
• 17:07
  smart women. They are kind women. They are funny
• 17:11
  women. And she asked her mom to consider doing
• 17:15
  something to help bring awareness. to what she
• 17:18
  thought was a poor policy. And I thought, that's
• 17:21
  the least I can do. So I started buying that.
• 17:23
  So can I ask? Because I'm not familiar. Was Coca
• 17:27
  -Cola like putting money into a anti -immigration
• 17:31
  policy? Two Januaries ago, when Trump was really
• 17:35
  working hard to prove that he was making a stance
• 17:39
  on immigration, and he really wanted to showcase
• 17:42
  that we're getting people out. removing them
• 17:44
  out. So he went to the big companies and was
• 17:46
  like, hey, we got to we got to make some action
• 17:48
  here. I'll make some action for you. You make
• 17:51
  some action. So he went to Coca -Cola. And I
• 17:55
  mean, when I say he, his people went to Coca
• 17:58
  -Cola and basically said, we need everybody out.
• 18:01
  That's not. And so they did. They they in an
• 18:04
  instant fired everyone that was undocumented.
• 18:08
  Now, how did they know who all was undocumented?
• 18:11
  because they hired them knowing that they were
• 18:14
  undocumented. So they were complicit in the hiring.
• 18:17
  It's one thing to fire everybody. On one hand,
• 18:21
  I get that. They fired everybody, but they knew
• 18:24
  who they were because they were the ones that
• 18:26
  hired them. But then they turned around and notified
• 18:29
  ICE immediately so that as they were firing them,
• 18:33
  everybody would get instantly picked up, arrested,
• 18:36
  and sent. So they could have just fired everyone
• 18:39
  if they were trying to find to follow policy,
• 18:42
  but instead they decided to help make this look
• 18:45
  like a real big win. But did Coca -Cola get fined
• 18:48
  anything for all of the undocumented workers
• 18:50
  that they had working for them? No. If we're
• 18:53
  going to, if, if we're going to say that people
• 18:55
  shouldn't work here, then these big companies
• 18:57
  need to stop making all of their money off of
• 19:01
  people that they know are undocumented. It is
• 19:04
  a poor policy and one that lands on the backs
• 19:07
  of the people who can least hold up what's going
• 19:10
  on. The company didn't get dinged at all. So
• 19:13
  the way that the public, by the way, Mexicans
• 19:17
  are some of the biggest Coca -Cola product purchasers
• 19:21
  in the globe. Oh, of course. There was definitely
• 19:23
  a backlash. And when my daughter asked me, she
• 19:27
  was a real... heart for the world. She understands
• 19:31
  policies, but she hurts when the world hurts.
• 19:34
  She hurts when the poorest of the poor hurt.
• 19:36
  She hurts when the hungriest of the hungry hurt.
• 19:39
  And so that has become tough for her. And in
• 19:44
  fact, one of the songs on my album that's coming
• 19:46
  out is written because of that. But when she
• 19:49
  asked me to do something, I mean, I understood
• 19:51
  what she was saying and I did it. Now she's asked
• 19:54
  me to do other things and I haven't done them.
• 19:56
  I can't do them all. Now let's be honest. Is
• 20:00
  there a notable difference in taste between Diet
• 20:02
  Coke and Diet Pepsi? And can you honestly say
• 20:06
  what you think of it? Now I don't want you to
• 20:08
  just be nice about it just because you're supporting
• 20:10
  a good cause. But Diet Pepsi tastes better, you're
• 20:13
  saying? It's different. It tastes a little sweeter.
• 20:17
  Diet Pepsi tastes a little sweeter. I like, like
• 20:21
  really enjoy The chemically taste of Diet Coke.
• 20:26
  That's the flavor I want. And I'll tell you that
• 20:29
  I still get the ultimate in Diet Cokes. Do you
• 20:32
  know what that is, John Francois? I do not know.
• 20:35
  Please explain, Jenny. McDonald's Diet Coke.
• 20:38
  Any soda drinker knows this. McDonald's Diet
• 20:41
  Coke snaps and it is like, it is a crispy, like
• 20:45
  it actually in your mouth, it just goes, wakes
• 20:48
  you up. It is beautiful, it is fresh, and I still
• 20:51
  get one. And I will never stop getting it. So
• 20:54
  have you just never been into coffee, iced or
• 20:58
  hot as a caffeinated drink? You've just been
• 21:00
  drinking soda. My first, it wasn't a date with
• 21:04
  David, but my first, we worked at a law firm
• 21:07
  together in Iowa City while I was in college.
• 21:09
  And he had to show me around to show me where
• 21:12
  to deliver different abstracts for law companies
• 21:14
  and stuff, law firms. And so while we were walking
• 21:17
  around, he was talking about coffee. I was like,
• 21:18
  I really don't like coffee. And he's like, well,
• 21:20
  have you tried? I said, yeah, I'm from a Norwegian
• 21:22
  family. Like coffee is all around. He was like,
• 21:26
  no, no, no, you're going to love it like this.
• 21:27
  There's this place that sells it. It's cold and
• 21:29
  they put a lot of sugar in it and it tastes kind
• 21:31
  of like ice cream. And I was like, pretty sure
• 21:33
  I'm still not going to like it. And sure enough,
• 21:35
  we went, you know, we walked around for two hours
• 21:36
  and then he bought me this iced coffee. And this
• 21:39
  was in like, by the way, 19, it was in the 1900s,
• 21:43
  John. Okay. All right. We know this. This was
• 21:47
  around 1994. Okay. Bought me my first iced coffee.
• 21:52
  I hated it. He bought two of them and I felt
• 21:55
  bad. Cause I didn't, I knew I wasn't going to
• 21:57
  drink it. So that affected, that affected your
• 21:59
  tolerance for coffee of any kind, no matter what
• 22:02
  temperature. It just proves that like I have
• 22:04
  tried it. I've tried coffee ice cream. I've tried
• 22:07
  tiramisu. I've tried everything. If it has coffee
• 22:10
  to me, it tastes like what a cat box smells like.
• 22:15
  Coffee ice cream. I could agree with you. I don't
• 22:18
  like it. I don't care for it. Ice coffee. I used
• 22:21
  to drink one of those like carton of iced coffee,
• 22:24
  those pre -made iced coffees from the grocery
• 22:25
  store. And after a while, it got to be sugary
• 22:29
  milk. I used to like cream my hot coffee for
• 22:32
  a little while too, but yeah, again, it just
• 22:35
  tasted milky. I felt like I was peeing every
• 22:38
  two seconds because of the sugar. So I now am
• 22:42
  in a comfortable state right now where for me,
• 22:45
  hot black coffee is where it's at. Hot black
• 22:47
  coffee. I will tell you hot black coffee would
• 22:49
  be cheaper for me. And I just went to my brother
• 22:51
  lives in Medellín, Colombia, down in South America.
• 22:54
  I went down there. I've been down there twice
• 22:56
  now, but the second time that I went was just
• 22:58
  this past March. And I went on coffee tours,
• 23:01
  and I drank a flippin' coffee. And I'll be honest,
• 23:03
  it did taste better from the, like a drip pour,
• 23:07
  where it was more like a hot tea, cause I do
• 23:08
  love hot tea. If you go over to my kitchen, which
• 23:11
  is a mess right now, but if you go over to my
• 23:12
  kitchen, there's a ton of teas over there. I
• 23:14
  drank a lot of tea. So my drinks are tea, water,
• 23:18
  and diet soda. But all those years on the radio
• 23:21
  station in the morning, ugh, a diet coke was
• 23:24
  the way to go. Yeah, I remember. I remember all
• 23:27
  the cans and you having to go to the bathroom
• 23:29
  afterwards. I remember Hey caffeine, I will tell
• 23:33
  you this everybody talks about cortisol and like
• 23:36
  caffeine Puffiness you can tell people that have
• 23:39
  a lot of caffeine because they're puffy and I
• 23:41
  was like if I'm puffy from all the like sodas
• 23:44
  I drink I'll bet you I'm like a size two if I
• 23:48
  stop drinking But I mean, my point is if that's
• 23:52
  the theory, if that's the theory, I bet I'm super
• 23:55
  slim if I stop drinking them, but I will never
• 23:57
  stop drinking them. I will remain puffy. You
• 24:00
  have lived in this age of acceptance in terms
• 24:02
  of caffeine. I've given up everything else. Wait,
• 24:06
  what else have you given up besides caffeine?
• 24:08
  Oh, I'm always on a health plan and just, you
• 24:10
  know, you don't eat this and you don't eat that.
• 24:12
  And then you're not supposed to have this in
• 24:14
  your diet. You're not supposed to use this on
• 24:16
  your hair. I don't know. I have a laundry list
• 24:19
  of things I don't do anymore. You know, I've
• 24:21
  kind of like cut down on beer and I'm from Wisconsin,
• 24:24
  so I love beer. I mean, I still have tequila,
• 24:27
  don't get me wrong. But like, you know, I just,
• 24:31
  I feel like the older you get, the more you're
• 24:34
  like, oh, I have to give these things up for
• 24:35
  my health. And I'm, you know, we're all trying
• 24:37
  to be the best versions of ourselves now and
• 24:40
  have like shiny, glossy hair and all these things
• 24:42
  we're supposed to do. And I'm like, I'm aging,
• 24:45
  so I've got, you know, why do I have a pimple
• 24:47
  and wrinkles? That is rude. It's really rude.
• 24:51
  But I've given up a lot of things when I'm not
• 24:54
  giving up. is a diet soda and people can yell
• 24:57
  at me. I understand. You think it's a bad idea,
• 25:00
  but I, you know, whatever works as long as, as
• 25:02
  long as it doesn't kill you, as long as it's
• 25:04
  not cigarettes, then I think you're okay. I think
• 25:07
  you're okay. It's my fridge cigarette. There
• 25:09
  you go. Let's trademark that diet coke, the new
• 25:13
  fridge cigarette. Oh, it's all over TikTok. We
• 25:15
  need to get you on TikTok more. I see like one
• 25:18
  clip a day. My wife is very much the TikTok.
• 25:23
  She can watch like 10, 15, 20 clips at once.
• 25:26
  I find it over -simulating. I cannot do so much
• 25:29
  short form. If you message her about a fridge
• 25:30
  thing, she'll know exactly what it is. Oh yeah.
• 25:33
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was hanging out
• 25:36
  with a friend the other day and I learned, I
• 25:39
  guess this is from TikTok as well, like instead
• 25:41
  of like the traditional... Applause like people
• 25:43
  are doing this now. They're doing the little
• 25:45
  finger now My wife was too tired the other day
• 25:48
  to explain what that was to me. Can you tell
• 25:50
  me why people are? quietly Like a little clap,
• 25:56
  it's like yeah, but I think for a while people
• 25:58
  even in the 60s people were I mean I wasn't alive
• 26:01
  in the 60s but I heard the beatniks and stuff
• 26:03
  at poetry they would like snap their fingers
• 26:06
  it was like somebody, right? So instead of just
• 26:09
  loud or not just clapping, it's a little gentler
• 26:12
  way of giving your approval. I suspect that a
• 26:15
  snap, which was a way of sort of giving approval
• 26:18
  without the big loud applause, I suspect that
• 26:21
  the snap, not everybody can snap with their fingers,
• 26:24
  but I think that it just moved. If you look at
• 26:27
  the, if you, this is my breakdown of a snap into
• 26:30
  the finger clap. But does someone do research
• 26:32
  on this? I think that the anatomy of snapping
• 26:35
  for some people is really hard. So they actually
• 26:37
  change the action from the snap to just the two
• 26:41
  fingers. Slap, slap, slap, slap, slap. Yeah,
• 26:44
  the index finger and the thumb clapping together.
• 26:45
  It would just slap them together. And I think
• 26:48
  that's where that came from, unless it was just
• 26:50
  someone goofing around like, OK, girl. It also
• 26:53
  comes from, like a lot of things in the culture,
• 26:57
  I think it comes from amazing black women, the
• 27:00
  ones that are like, you know I got my nails and
• 27:02
  I'm not doing these things or from drag culture
• 27:04
  sometimes it comes from those two but like a
• 27:06
  lot of things we get come from black women and
• 27:09
  drag culture because they are culture beasts
• 27:12
  like let's be honest that all the cool things
• 27:15
  the cool words but yeah But the but the it could
• 27:19
  also have something to do with the nails There's
• 27:21
  a lot of like then I'm slapping but I'm slapping
• 27:24
  my fingers at you with the like nails thing when
• 27:27
  they slap them together or they slap their Hands
• 27:29
  kind of you're doing a really long nails. You
• 27:31
  mean yeah And so I think the snaps also come
• 27:33
  from that with the fingers because if you have
• 27:35
  long nails, you can't snap so There you go. I
• 27:39
  thought it was okay. So I thought it was like
• 27:41
  people who were sensitive to the volume of like
• 27:45
  the normal applause. That's what I thought the
• 27:47
  silent clap was, because I know there's like
• 27:49
  a term for people who can be very sensitive hearing
• 27:52
  -wise to... Over -stimulated on the usually autism
• 27:56
  spectrum. But the thing is, if that were the
• 27:58
  case, they could just do what... the deaf public,
• 28:01
  hard of hearing public, has been doing for years,
• 28:03
  which is just the hands up like jazz hands. Yeah,
• 28:06
  yeah, the jazz hands. That's how you applaud
• 28:09
  in sign language. So we could just do that if
• 28:12
  we're really trying to be. I think it has more
• 28:15
  sass with the fingers. You can't see me throwing
• 28:18
  my head because I'm also not very cool. But like
• 28:21
  throwing that, like the snap the fingers, like,
• 28:24
  okay, well, hop off. So this was a really fun
• 28:31
  detour from your life story. Let's get back to
• 28:33
  I think we were in Los Angeles and then what
• 28:36
  happens from Los Angeles? Why are we? Moving
• 28:40
  away because yeah from LA we had our our first
• 28:44
  daughter three days later We had an earthquake
• 28:46
  and two days later was 9 -eleven there was a
• 28:49
  lot of stuff going on and it was stressful and
• 28:52
  Then I went back to work six months later and
• 28:55
  found out within within a month that I was pregnant
• 28:57
  with our next child. And it was already hard
• 29:00
  enough living in LA, I'll be honest. We had no
• 29:02
  family out there. We had a couple of friends
• 29:04
  that were really great to us. But it's really
• 29:06
  hard to raise children all by yourself in an
• 29:10
  area where it's so far from home, you know? So
• 29:14
  it wasn't maybe LA in particular, although it
• 29:16
  was crazy expensive to live out there, but it
• 29:19
  had maybe more to do with the fact that we just
• 29:21
  had no family support. And so that's when my
• 29:24
  folks were like, ooh, we have an idea. You should
• 29:28
  come work at the radio station. And I was like,
• 29:30
  we do like Decora. And so that's how we ended
• 29:32
  up moving to Decora. David stayed home with the
• 29:35
  children. I went and worked at the radio station,
• 29:37
  eventually became the station manager, had never
• 29:39
  intended to do morning show radio. But after,
• 29:42
  I think I had been there about six or seven months,
• 29:45
  they used their evil, wicked ways and had me
• 29:48
  come here with the morning show host at the time.
• 29:51
  It was fun and they knew I was going to like
• 29:53
  it. And so I did. So I did it. And then I worked
• 29:56
  there for 20 years almost until I left in 2019.
• 30:01
  Yeah. Can I ask what about. Decora made your
• 30:05
  parents say, okay, we have to, you know, put
• 30:07
  radio roots there or did they already live there
• 30:09
  or it was just something special about the town
• 30:11
  where they're like, we got to be there. Nope.
• 30:13
  They had, we had moved around. So I grew up in
• 30:16
  Eau Claire, Wisconsin. And so dad worked at Wax
• 30:19
  and Way in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, where he wrote
• 30:20
  the Menards jingle. Yes. The lyrics and the melody,
• 30:23
  I should say, not the music bed. And then we
• 30:25
  moved from there when I was the... Last two months
• 30:28
  of seventh grade, we moved to Marshalltown, Iowa,
• 30:31
  which is where they have the station now. And
• 30:33
  we lived there for two and a half years. And
• 30:35
  then the ownership bought a station in Fargo
• 30:39
  or Moorhead, Minnesota. So we moved to Fargo,
• 30:42
  Fargo, Moorhead, our like sister cities. So we
• 30:44
  moved to Fargo where I went to high school and
• 30:47
  then I graduated left and went with up with people.
• 30:50
  And my sister had her senior year left in high
• 30:53
  school in Fargo and they moved back to Eau Claire,
• 30:55
  Wisconsin. And my little brother was in the younger
• 30:59
  school, like grade school, so it wasn't as big
• 31:02
  of a deal. And they moved to Eau Claire where
• 31:05
  dad worked in landscaping for a year just to
• 31:08
  get out of radio. It was kind of wild. But after
• 31:10
  a year, they decided they wanted to get back
• 31:12
  in radio and they wanted to own something themselves.
• 31:14
  And they wanted to do it together. And I thought
• 31:17
  that was really cool. So they looked at, they
• 31:20
  had a specific size they wanted. They wanted
• 31:23
  a specific size town. They wanted a very culturally
• 31:27
  interesting town. And so the two places they
• 31:30
  had looked into like really seriously were Elizabeth
• 31:34
  Town, Kentucky, and Decora, Iowa. And Decora,
• 31:39
  Iowa was so much closer to my mom's mom and dad
• 31:43
  or mom and no, just yeah, mom and dad and my
• 31:47
  dad's dad, trying to remember who was still alive
• 31:49
  then. But my folks' family, they thought, you
• 31:51
  know, we're within two and a half hours. We can
• 31:53
  now drive and see our parents. And so that's
• 31:56
  why they chose Decora. Now, going back to what
• 31:58
  you said, culturally interesting, if you don't
• 32:00
  mind for the audience, can you explain specifically,
• 32:02
  like, what about the culture of Decora makes
• 32:05
  it interesting? Yeah, I think it's unusual. Now,
• 32:09
  it's not a super diverse community. And when
• 32:11
  I say that, I laugh because it's like... 99 .948
• 32:16
  white. We can say that for Iowa in general, really.
• 32:20
  I know, I know. It's a Scandinavian town, but
• 32:25
  here's what I think is culturally interesting
• 32:29
  about. Iowa has a lot of warm people, lovely
• 32:33
  people, but not very beautiful places. Don't
• 32:36
  come at me for that, friends. There are some
• 32:38
  places that are really pretty true, but Ikora
• 32:41
  is beautiful. When you drive into town for the
• 32:44
  first time, and there's a reason that people
• 32:46
  come from Minneapolis to vacation or Chicago
• 32:49
  to vacation there. When you drive into town,
• 32:52
  it feels like a little Norman Rockwell town.
• 32:55
  Like it's got a cute downtown. It's got a, it's
• 32:57
  only a population of 8 ,000 people, but it's
• 33:00
  thriving. It's thriving. I thought it was 3000
• 33:04
  when I was there. No, 8 ,000, the school and
• 33:07
  the school has about 2000 people. So has it always
• 33:09
  been that much? Where did I see 3000? I saw 3000
• 33:12
  somewhere. No, that would be wild. That's about
• 33:14
  the size. Yeah, that's yeah. So it's about 8
• 33:16
  ,000 people on the county is 22 ,000 people,
• 33:19
  but it's the biggest city in the county. And
• 33:21
  there's a, there's like, it's, it's got, you
• 33:24
  know, trails. So a lot of off, off trail bike
• 33:28
  riding. As well as trail riding, a lot of horse
• 33:32
  trails, a lot of, well, a few, they've had some
• 33:35
  argument with the bikers and the horses, but
• 33:37
  places where people really engage. That's not
• 33:39
  my activity, but I love that people do that.
• 33:41
  A lot of runners, people that like to go on a
• 33:44
  13 mile loop that we have. And also, it's got
• 33:47
  the world's largest museum that is dedicated
• 33:50
  to one, one cultural background or one, and it's
• 33:53
  the. Vesterheim Norwegian American Museum. It's
• 33:56
  where Disney came to get their pieces for Frozen,
• 34:00
  so if you'll... So there were things on loan
• 34:03
  to Epcot, probably still are, from Vesterheim.
• 34:06
  Because of Luther College, where Dave Matthews
• 34:08
  recorded live at Luther College, it's got a college
• 34:11
  vibe, so you have interesting arts and activities.
• 34:15
  and speakers and readers and thoughts that are
• 34:19
  flying around town. It's a very progressive little
• 34:21
  town. A lot of trout fisher people like to come
• 34:24
  in because of the trout battery. The Decora Eagles
• 34:27
  bring people in from all over the world because
• 34:30
  people like to watch them on screen, but they
• 34:31
  also get to come and see them in person. Yeah.
• 34:34
  But I think one of the things that's most interesting
• 34:38
  about Decora is the fact that it's in the driftless
• 34:40
  region. So the driftless region of, is it southwest
• 34:43
  Wisconsin, northeast Iowa, and a little portion
• 34:48
  of Minnesota. They're kind of this area where
• 34:50
  the glaciers never came through. So back in the
• 34:55
  ice age, the glaciers came through and flattened
• 34:57
  most of Iowa and North Dakota and all of these
• 35:01
  places. But then you have this Little corner
• 35:04
  of Iowa that is bluffy and hilly and interesting
• 35:08
  like topographic topographically interesting
• 35:12
  Geographically interesting I think in terms of
• 35:14
  where it's situated near the Mississippi River
• 35:17
  in Wisconsin But has its own river coming through
• 35:19
  the upper, Iowa. There's a lot of kayaking I
• 35:22
  think the Smithsonian named it one of the top
• 35:25
  100 places to kayak in the world. Yeah There's
• 35:28
  just a lot of interesting cool things. There's
• 35:31
  something a little about Decora sometimes too,
• 35:35
  because they call it the vortex. Because people,
• 35:38
  they'll visit, right? They'll visit from California.
• 35:41
  Oh, someone just told us we should come to Nordic
• 35:42
  Fest. And then they never leave. They buy a house
• 35:45
  and they stay there. There's something that pulls
• 35:47
  people in. It's peaceful. It has a speed of life
• 35:51
  that is gentle and... generally friendly. I think
• 35:55
  people in general want the best for each other.
• 35:57
  That doesn't mean that there aren't some folks.
• 36:00
  There are. And I think the college brings in
• 36:03
  some of the diversity in terms of people and
• 36:07
  outside thoughts that need to come in that helps
• 36:10
  the town at least stay aware and relevant. Very
• 36:15
  politically active community. Yeah. And they
• 36:19
  love music. There's, there's people that live
• 36:21
  off the grid and a whole bunch of hippies and
• 36:23
  then you got your farmers and you got, everybody
• 36:26
  loves music. And so music brings people together.
• 36:29
  I don't know. I love Decora. I can't imagine
• 36:32
  having had my kids grow up somewhere else because
• 36:34
  it's also a super, super good school system.
• 36:38
  I've talked to people about the Decora Vortex
• 36:40
  and can we also include - The Vortex. Yeah, can
• 36:43
  we also include in the Vortex definition people
• 36:45
  that have maybe, you know, born, raised, grew
• 36:49
  up in Decora. They may want a big city experience
• 36:52
  going out of high school or college to somewhere
• 36:53
  like Chicago, and then they find themselves coming
• 36:56
  back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is my daughter's.
• 36:59
  They, I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting
• 37:02
  to me. They love coming back to Decora. And my
• 37:05
  oldest daughter, she wants, she has this thought
• 37:07
  that potentially Decora could be her future.
• 37:09
  I mean, she really... If community is your thing,
• 37:13
  because some people, it's not. Some people want
• 37:15
  space and they don't want to have everybody in
• 37:18
  town know them when they go to lunch, you know?
• 37:21
  Not everybody knows you, but you know. But you
• 37:24
  know, those that love it, it is a town that is,
• 37:27
  it can be really embracing. Like any other small
• 37:30
  town, but especially towns in Iowa, it has its
• 37:33
  struggles. People that are, that are. championing
• 37:38
  LGBTQIA, all the things. I'm getting confused
• 37:41
  about all the numbers, but I'll just say, you
• 37:43
  know. I just say the queer community because
• 37:45
  I... Queer community, it's a lot. Including,
• 37:49
  you know, people in my own family. But the queer
• 37:53
  community, I think, has a loving and strong support
• 37:58
  in Decora, which is unusual, I think, in a town
• 38:01
  of 8 ,000 people. That doesn't mean there aren't...
• 38:04
  things that happen. There are people that are
• 38:06
  angry about that. Whether they live in decor
• 38:08
  or not, I don't know, but they definitely make
• 38:10
  their views known when, but always in secret
• 38:13
  ways, like by ripping down pride flags or stupid
• 38:15
  things like that. But I think that happens in
• 38:17
  big cities, too. So it's a microcosm of what
• 38:20
  can happen when people come together. And I feel
• 38:24
  like the very first decor pride parade happened
• 38:26
  when I was there, because I remember that being
• 38:28
  a big deal when that happened in the streets
• 38:30
  of downtown decor. Yes. And you know what? That
• 38:33
  happened. They still are doing it. But what was
• 38:35
  interesting is even before that, the high school
• 38:38
  of all places, the high school was the one who
• 38:42
  would have their, they had the Gay Straight Alliance,
• 38:46
  the GSA, and they would march in the homecoming
• 38:50
  parade for years. And you'd get football players
• 38:53
  who would march. Some of them were on the...
• 38:55
  you know, firetruck with the ballplayers, but
• 38:58
  some of them would go march with the GSA. I mean,
• 39:01
  I think there is something interesting about
• 39:03
  being a community small enough, but also big
• 39:06
  -minded enough, where you know everybody in your
• 39:10
  school. And so if people are finding freedom
• 39:14
  to announce who they are publicly, specifically
• 39:17
  gay and lesbian, queer, just adding everyone
• 39:20
  in. to whatever degree that is. Well, if you've
• 39:23
  grown up going to school with them, you were
• 39:25
  the buddy they hang out with forever. It's a
• 39:27
  little harder to hate on them. It still happens,
• 39:30
  but it's I think a little harder to hate on them.
• 39:32
  So maybe that's why Decora sometimes feels like
• 39:34
  a good melting pot of the small town like life,
• 39:38
  but also a little maybe broader perspective on
• 39:42
  the world. And I think having a college there
• 39:45
  really does maximize that because you are bringing,
• 39:48
  well, in fact, my son, I don't have a son. I
• 39:51
  have three daughters, but I do have a son. His
• 39:53
  name is Sylvester Malunga. He's from Swaziland
• 39:57
  or Espeni, depending on it. I mean, I walked
• 40:00
  him down the aisle. I was hoping it would be
• 40:01
  me, Jenny. No, John, you're my other son. But
• 40:05
  Sylvester came, you know, I walked him down the
• 40:07
  aisle at his wedding in Las Vegas to Hallie and
• 40:09
  now they have a baby and I get pictures sent
• 40:12
  to me because I'm the mom. I'm so excited. And
• 40:14
  like Sylvester, the only reason our family met
• 40:16
  him. we wouldn't have met someone from Swaziland
• 40:19
  was because he came for Luther College to be
• 40:22
  a student here, or here, I'm in Omaha now, but
• 40:26
  in Decorah. And honestly, he loved it so much
• 40:30
  that even after he graduated, he kept trying
• 40:32
  to find jobs in Decorah. Like he, a man who grew
• 40:35
  up his whole life in this tiny little country
• 40:39
  in Africa wanted to live in Decorah because he
• 40:42
  knew it was a... a beautiful and welcoming place
• 40:45
  to live. One of my regrets was that I didn't
• 40:47
  stay longer because at that time, and you probably
• 40:51
  could relate to this when you were in your 20s
• 40:52
  as well, but there is a certain like... drive
• 40:57
  and not being so much in the present moment and
• 41:00
  always being consumed about what your future
• 41:01
  is when you're in your twenties. And that's where
• 41:04
  I was at when I just happened to be in one of
• 41:07
  the most beautiful places on Earth decor, Iowa.
• 41:09
  And I think if I were where I am right now, you
• 41:12
  know, having been here in Vermont and found a
• 41:14
  home here for eight years, like I, yeah, I think
• 41:16
  I would have been there longer. So it was, it
• 41:18
  was a wonderful welcoming bunch of people. And
• 41:21
  I told anybody from Connecticut, I was moving
• 41:22
  to Iowa and they looked at me like I was just
• 41:25
  this. freak out of nowhere. They were, they were
• 41:28
  like, wait, what is there, aren't there, it's,
• 41:31
  it's just like what cows and farmland like, and
• 41:34
  also like you're a black person. Like, so it
• 41:36
  was like this, it was this mixture of - I was
• 41:38
  going to say, what did your parents, I remember
• 41:40
  your family was awesome. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So,
• 41:43
  so my mom, uh, like many, uh, moms, she operates
• 41:48
  on a lot of worry and fear. So yes, there was
• 41:51
  a lot of like, Oh, it could not work out. It
• 41:54
  could not work out. And at that point I was 25.
• 41:57
  I had been living at home for three years past
• 41:59
  college and I told myself coming from a family
• 42:03
  Cape Cod vacation, I think like a few months
• 42:05
  before 25 years old, I want something big to
• 42:07
  happen in my life. And then this opportunity
• 42:10
  landed and I was single. I had nothing to lose.
• 42:13
  I wanted a new fresh experience in my life. And
• 42:16
  that's what you and your, your parents gave to
• 42:19
  me. And I just think about the timeframe and,
• 42:22
  and who I am, like being a person of color, moving
• 42:24
  to this majority white States during the first
• 42:28
  Trump administration and the fact. that, you
• 42:31
  know, it just happened. Yeah, and it could have
• 42:33
  worked against me, but the fact that it was a
• 42:35
  very welcoming, progressive town, the fact that
• 42:37
  so many people were kind to me based on me being
• 42:40
  on the radio and I was able to find a nice community
• 42:42
  doing theater there, like it, yeah, it was, it's
• 42:46
  a time in my life that I often look back on and
• 42:48
  think, wow, that was really, really special.
• 42:51
  And I did appreciate it at the time and I did
• 42:53
  have experiences and adventures for sure, but
• 42:56
  I definitely would have liked to appreciated
• 43:00
  even more, you know, and stayed at least a year
• 43:03
  longer. I understand that. I understand that.
• 43:06
  I think that's just life. You know, I mean, in
• 43:07
  our 20s, we're ready. We're ready to like, go
• 43:09
  try everything. And we should be. That's what
• 43:11
  I taught. My daughters are all in their 20s now.
• 43:13
  I'm like, go, go, go, go, go do it all. Yeah.
• 43:17
  Go experience it. And in some ways, I feel like
• 43:19
  I'm doing that now. As a 50 -year -old woman,
• 43:22
  I'm doing that now. I'm kind of experiencing
• 43:25
  the world in a new and different way that I think
• 43:27
  having my 20s all over again a little bit. Yeah,
• 43:31
  yeah. I love that. Say hi to your family, by
• 43:34
  the way. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah,
• 43:36
  yeah. Especially my mom. My mom would love to...
• 43:38
  hear from you so because she has always said
• 43:41
  that you basically took her place when I was
• 43:45
  there because I was there thousands of miles
• 43:47
  away from family and friends and she looks at
• 43:50
  you fondly as someone who was looking after me.
• 43:53
  Oh, I was definitely looking after you. I actually
• 43:55
  remember, I knew I wanted to hire you. You're
• 43:58
  a joy. You're smart. You're fun. Smart? Oh, God.
• 44:03
  You like to talk a lot, which means good things
• 44:06
  on the radio. To a fault. From somebody that
• 44:10
  talks a lot. And I just remember you coming,
• 44:12
  but I was feeling protective of you because it's,
• 44:15
  look, it's a white community. And every time
• 44:19
  I say that, someone will say, yeah, but there's
• 44:21
  that one family. The fact that you have to say,
• 44:24
  oh yeah, but there's that one family that lets
• 44:26
  you know, yeah. Exactly. And so I... I mean,
• 44:31
  I don't think I said this to you, but I was very,
• 44:35
  what's the word I'm looking for? I was very intentional
• 44:37
  about how I introduced you to the community.
• 44:41
  I got your picture. And I am so thankful for
• 44:45
  social media. I put you all over social media
• 44:48
  to make sure that people knew that you were moving
• 44:51
  here. We were trying to find you a place to live.
• 44:54
  We were, you know, these different things because
• 44:56
  I wanted the community to instantly recognize
• 44:59
  that there's. a new son coming into our town
• 45:02
  and we want to help him. And the people that
• 45:04
  are the helpers were the first ones to jump forward.
• 45:07
  But it also did a secondary job, which was because
• 45:10
  I said, make sure if you see John on the street,
• 45:12
  say hi to him. You know that. And we did it on.
• 45:15
  But I also said it on social media and on our
• 45:17
  website. And I was going to use the word calculated,
• 45:20
  which makes it sound like nefarious some way.
• 45:23
  That's not what I mean. But it was it was very
• 45:25
  intentional. I wanted people to know. There's
• 45:28
  this man coming to our town. We need to make
• 45:31
  him feel welcome without saying, hey, there's
• 45:34
  a man coming to our town. Let's not scare him
• 45:39
  friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was
• 45:41
  wonderful. I mean, you know, there were, there
• 45:43
  were times where I was like a bit like scared
• 45:45
  and nervous by, by, by all the love and kindness
• 45:48
  coming at me at once. Oh, sorry about that. No,
• 45:51
  no, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. It was all
• 45:53
  me because, you know, I could be a shy, socially
• 45:55
  awkward person. And when I'm moving in this completely
• 45:58
  new town, not a lot of people look like me skin
• 46:01
  color wise and I'm thousands of miles away from
• 46:03
  family and friends. Yeah. Sometimes there were
• 46:05
  moments where it's just like, Oh my God, this
• 46:06
  is all so much new and so much change. I got
• 46:09
  to hide in the corner somewhere, but, uh, but
• 46:11
  no, eventually I just embraced it and, and, and
• 46:13
  made a lot of, uh, friendships that still last
• 46:16
  to this day. I mean, I went to, um, a buddy of
• 46:20
  mine's wedding, um, in Colorado, and that was
• 46:24
  a friend that I made, uh, from doing community
• 46:26
  theater in El Cater. So, uh, So cool. Yeah, yeah,
• 46:30
  yeah. And I still message with other friends
• 46:33
  that I've made through the radio station. So
• 46:35
  yeah, I have you to thank for that because I
• 46:37
  just met some kind people and still talk to them
• 46:40
  to this day. I love it. And you deserve all of
• 46:43
  those things. I mean, you were a great asset
• 46:46
  to what we were doing. And I know it was a short
• 46:48
  time, but I hope you feel that. I mean, you in
• 46:50
  a short period of time made the radio station
• 46:52
  and Decora a bit better. So thank you. Oh, thank
• 46:56
  you so much. I appreciate that. Oh, the most
• 47:06
  seductive noise for the Diet Pepsi and Diet Coke
• 47:08
  addicts is just the sound of that drink opening.
• 47:12
  So how did you not lose your mind when you were
• 47:16
  doing both radio and you were on the road doing
• 47:19
  live music? Take me through, so we did the radio
• 47:24
  aspect. Take me through the genesis of you being
• 47:27
  a live musician. How did that all come about
• 47:30
  for you? Well, I had pushed music down for a
• 47:32
  really long time and just did the jobs. And when
• 47:35
  I was working at the radio station, my folks,
• 47:38
  so at the radio station I called them Bob and
• 47:40
  Colleen because I'm good at sort of making the
• 47:43
  distinction between mom and dad. Bob and Cleen
• 47:46
  work with. So at the radio station, Bob and Cleen
• 47:49
  were trying to do things that were kind of fresh
• 47:51
  to freshen up the station. And one of the things
• 47:53
  that they had done for years was Star Seeker
• 47:55
  Karaoke. and I didn't want to do karaoke. I did
• 47:58
  it for a couple of years with the radio station
• 48:00
  and it wore me out. It was great for what it
• 48:02
  was for, but I didn't want to, and they didn't
• 48:04
  want to do it anymore. It was exhausting. It
• 48:07
  was months, six months of our time going to bars
• 48:09
  late at night where it was often smoky at the
• 48:12
  time at the very beginning and things like that.
• 48:15
  So I gave them an idea because I was missing
• 48:18
  music and this honestly changed my life. My idea
• 48:22
  was, what if we didn't do karaoke, since the
• 48:25
  fair wants us to do something, what if we did
• 48:28
  a live band where people can vie to sing with
• 48:33
  a live band, kind of like karaoke, but they get
• 48:36
  to sing on a grandstand with a live band. Imagine
• 48:40
  that experience. And the fair thought that was
• 48:42
  a good idea. So we did Jenny Grouse and Friends
• 48:45
  live at the Winnipeg County Fair. And that's
• 48:47
  where I formed the people that made up the band
• 48:51
  Absolute Hoot later. I just started asking around,
• 48:53
  who are the best players? Who's the best players
• 48:56
  around here? And I created a band just for that.
• 48:59
  And I had people that sent in their songs. Some
• 49:03
  of them were full bands, for instance. The ones
• 49:06
  that won the junior category was a group called
• 49:09
  the Bread and Butter String Band. And it includes
• 49:11
  Simon Krop, who is now... a full -time musician.
• 49:16
  He and I are both Iowa City songwriters lineup
• 49:18
  coming up at the Englert in the fall. Anyway,
• 49:22
  like he was in eighth grade then. That's so cool
• 49:24
  for me. I love knowing that they got to be part
• 49:27
  of that. But that wasn't, I know I'm sort of
• 49:30
  digressing again, but that was an important time
• 49:33
  because it was the start of me saying I'm...
• 49:38
  I want to do some more music. And I had already
• 49:40
  done an EP at that point after a mental health
• 49:43
  breakdown back in 2008, 2009. You're lucky you
• 49:46
  missed that period. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was rough.
• 49:52
  It was really rough. I was exhausted is the main
• 49:54
  thing. I just I was worn out. And so I went to
• 49:58
  a therapist and after a while when I was out
• 50:00
  of crisis, the therapist helped me. kind of recognize
• 50:03
  how much music was important to me and encouraged
• 50:05
  me. So this was all like all of these pieces
• 50:08
  were coming in and then Absolute Hoot was going,
• 50:10
  then because of radio I went to the Quad Cities
• 50:12
  and while I was there to speak to the class,
• 50:16
  a communications class, the night before I went
• 50:18
  to a blues jam and that's where I met the folks
• 50:20
  that would later become the band with me, A .B.
• 50:23
  Grouse Band. And I met them at the Blues Jam.
• 50:26
  I begged them for like eight months. The lead
• 50:28
  guy, Chris, I was like, just do a weekend of
• 50:32
  shows with me if you hate it. We never have to
• 50:33
  do it again. But I knew it. My gut was rolling
• 50:36
  now. Like I was like, this is it. I know this
• 50:38
  is it. And I will say, as a Sagittarius. Me too.
• 50:43
  Yes, I know. It doesn't surprise anybody, right?
• 50:45
  Oh God, yeah. When our gut tells us something,
• 50:48
  like we're gone. Yeah. And my gut was like, I
• 50:51
  know this. And I was right. Now you could question,
• 50:54
  was I right? Or I just worked really hard for
• 50:56
  it at both. It was both. Yeah. Yeah. So how would
• 50:59
  you, so we know A .B. Grouse band is blues. How
• 51:02
  would you describe the music of Absolute Hoot?
• 51:04
  Was it in that similar vein? No, Absolute Hoot
• 51:07
  was very much a cover band, but it would, for
• 51:10
  me, the coolest cover band ever in that, and
• 51:13
  I will stand by that, it wasn't beholden to a
• 51:16
  specific genre. Like we would do songs by Cake.
• 51:19
  We would do songs by Susan I mean a bonnie rate
• 51:23
  so we did blues we did like kind of pop rock
• 51:26
  we would do Robert Plant and Alison Krauss, we
• 51:30
  would do whatever songs that members of the band
• 51:33
  were kind of digging and we thought would be
• 51:34
  cool. We just did them. That's where I got to
• 51:37
  sing some of my first originals with the band.
• 51:39
  So I did throw in and they were... And might
• 51:42
  I say you invited me to an absolute hoot outdoor
• 51:45
  concert when I first moved to Decorah. I think
• 51:48
  Memorial Day weekend 2017 and it was very wonderful.
• 51:51
  So thank you for that. Yeah, was that in the
• 51:52
  co -op parking lot? No, it was, uh, it was in
• 51:55
  this sort of foresty pizzeria. Yeah, there you
• 52:01
  go. Yeah. Yeah. One of our radio sponsors. Oh
• 52:03
  my God. You're bringing me back to the commercials
• 52:04
  that I would have to bring you over and over.
• 52:07
  So now it's called Twin Springs Supper Club.
• 52:11
  Oh, what happened? The new owners? Jim McCaffrey
• 52:13
  passed, passed away and they sold and yeah. So
• 52:16
  there was a lot of change there. So the new owners,
• 52:19
  they don't do music anymore. I don't believe
• 52:21
  out there, but that was a cool run while it happened.
• 52:24
  And that was cool that Brenda and Jim really
• 52:26
  encouraged that. So yes, you're right. That was
• 52:29
  a cool place. But then after I had met, then
• 52:32
  I started just doing gigs on the weekend, not
• 52:34
  every weekend, but a lot of weekends. And then
• 52:36
  because I was doing the booking, I was booking
• 52:38
  more shows and then running the radio station.
• 52:40
  And I would, for a while I was still doing the
• 52:43
  morning show at six in the morning, but I'd still
• 52:45
  be there at six at night because I was also running
• 52:48
  the sales team. And then I had my own, there
• 52:50
  was just a lot. There was a lot. So I was working.
• 52:53
  12, 13 hour days, I was exhausted. I would come
• 52:56
  home and I still wanted to be a good mom. And
• 52:59
  so I think really the toll that takes on a person
• 53:02
  is mostly internal. It just wears you down after
• 53:05
  a while. One of the things one of my daughters
• 53:08
  said to me is, Mom, you know, when you go away
• 53:10
  from your weekend of music, you come back so
• 53:12
  happy. We can tell how happy you are. And they
• 53:15
  had gotten older at that point by the time I
• 53:17
  started doing more and more. And so eventually,
• 53:20
  September 2019, my folks sold the station. I
• 53:23
  was going to continue to go on with the next
• 53:24
  radio station, the next owners. And then... Oh,
• 53:27
  you were intending to work with them. And then
• 53:29
  I woke... that morning when I was supposed to
• 53:31
  go in and sign my contract. And I knew I had
• 53:33
  tours coming up to Florida that I was going to
• 53:36
  be gone for two and three weeks. I had opportunities
• 53:38
  that were coming out. So my perception was when
• 53:41
  I saw the news that the station was being sold
• 53:42
  on Facebook back in 2019, I thought, oh, OK,
• 53:45
  Jenny is loyal to her family and wouldn't work
• 53:47
  for anybody else. I thought you knew from the
• 53:50
  get go that you weren't going to work for the
• 53:51
  new owners. But you and money, honey. You're
• 53:55
  right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Any any stable paycheck
• 53:56
  for a musician is great. Yeah, but go ahead.
• 54:00
  What led to the change of mind? It was literally
• 54:03
  in the morning. I was in bed and I looked over
• 54:05
  at David and I said, this is a bad decision.
• 54:08
  It's not only a bad decision for me, it's a bad
• 54:11
  decision for the new radio station owners. They
• 54:15
  will hate me by the end of this and I don't want
• 54:18
  that for any relationship because I have so many
• 54:21
  things going forward with this band that I'm
• 54:24
  gonna be gone a lot. I'm not going to be able
• 54:26
  to give them my full. Now, what they don't know
• 54:28
  is that I'm an intensely hard worker. And when
• 54:31
  I do work, you're going to get more work out
• 54:33
  of me than maybe your average person. But the
• 54:37
  idea of me being gone for all of those days,
• 54:39
  I think, made me realize that I wasn't going
• 54:43
  to be doing them any favor. They were going to
• 54:44
  be. They were going to dislike having me eventually.
• 54:47
  And I didn't want to go that way. Can I ask was,
• 54:49
  was there already tension with your parents because
• 54:51
  of like you dividing your time between the musician
• 54:53
  stuff and. Oh, sure. I mean, they were worried
• 54:56
  because I was also tired, you know, and I was
• 54:59
  ready to be done. I was ready to be done. I wanted
• 55:01
  to go do this music thing. I just, I was scared.
• 55:04
  I was scared, you know, I was scared. And then
• 55:08
  I realized that this is the opportunity I needed.
• 55:11
  I needed this, actually this, this selling. of
• 55:14
  the radio station by my parents is what provided
• 55:17
  the life change, the like rock shifting that
• 55:21
  made me go, okay, it's do or die at this point.
• 55:25
  And I said to David, I don't think I should sign
• 55:28
  the contract. I think it's gonna be bad for them.
• 55:30
  I think it's gonna be bad for me. I think it's
• 55:31
  gonna be bad for us. I think I can do this music
• 55:34
  thing full time. And he was like - And how did
• 55:36
  he react? Great. Good. He still worked for them
• 55:39
  for a little while. Yeah. for them for about
• 55:43
  a year, I think. Did he leave because of creative
• 55:45
  differences or? Oh, no, no, no, nothing like
• 55:47
  that. I think they were, I think he, they, they
• 55:49
  had basically told him, you know, you're, you're
• 55:51
  kind of redundant because we already have someone
• 55:53
  that does your job, but we also need help transferring
• 55:56
  things over. And so he stayed with them for about
• 55:58
  a year, just making sure everything got transferred
• 56:00
  over and got him out. And then he was like, see
• 56:03
  ya. Um, so it worked just fine. But In terms
• 56:07
  of me, I just decided that if I'm going to go
• 56:09
  forward with music, then I need to make it work.
• 56:10
  So I started hustling to make sure that we had
• 56:13
  enough shows that I could try to make the same
• 56:15
  kind of money I was making at the radio station.
• 56:17
  And you know, it's radio. It's not like it's
• 56:20
  very much money. So it has nothing to do with
• 56:22
  my parents or anybody. It just has to do with
• 56:24
  radio. It just doesn't. It's not a high income
• 56:27
  position. Unfortunately, it didn't switch that
• 56:31
  much when I became a musician. Oh, yeah. Our
• 56:33
  John Francois is that that was September 2019.
• 56:37
  And then our debut full length album was coming
• 56:40
  out March 20th, 2020. Oh, God. And what happened
• 56:45
  when you were about to release your album? It
• 56:48
  was literally I was driving from Decora to the
• 56:51
  Quad Cities to do our album release party, which
• 56:53
  we had already canceled the party because we
• 56:55
  had been hearing things about people getting
• 56:57
  sick and yeah. You know, COVID was, they were
• 57:00
  just, you know, they were talking about it, but
• 57:01
  it wasn't like, not in the U .S. anyway. We weren't
• 57:03
  like shutting things down yet. Yeah. And so on
• 57:06
  the way to the Quad Cities, two of the members,
• 57:09
  one of whom was, had just had a baby. in the
• 57:12
  family said, I live in Illinois. I'm afraid they're
• 57:15
  going to close the borders, and I won't be able
• 57:17
  to get back. And I was like, yep, you don't have
• 57:18
  to come. I totally understand. And then another
• 57:20
  one called and said, I just don't feel comfortable
• 57:22
  coming. I was like, yep, I totally understand.
• 57:24
  But I was already in Piazza, and I was halfway
• 57:27
  there. I was more than halfway there. And so
• 57:29
  I just kept going, and we ended up doing the
• 57:32
  album release party from Ryan and Chris Sheridan
• 57:35
  apartment. And so they were already in their
• 57:37
  bubble, right? I had my family, and because I
• 57:42
  wasn't working at the radio station then, so
• 57:44
  I had my family who was also home all the time
• 57:46
  at that time. They had just canceled school.
• 57:49
  But I also had this group, these two guys, and
• 57:52
  so I would travel. We did our album release party
• 57:54
  on the 20th of March online on Facebook Live,
• 57:58
  and then we decided since we were there, why
• 58:00
  don't we just do a Bloody Marys and Blues on
• 58:03
  Sunday morning? That was so much fun that we
• 58:06
  decided next week I'd drive up again. So during
• 58:08
  COVID, I drove 16 ,000 miles. Wow. Just going
• 58:12
  back to the Quad Cities to do live streams with
• 58:15
  these guys. Kind of wild. And you guys had to
• 58:19
  be together in the same room. It could not be
• 58:20
  a separate sort of zoom meeting screen thing.
• 58:23
  And like the music has to be produced in the
• 58:25
  same room. Yeah. Yeah. The timing gets all weird
• 58:28
  and it doesn't. Yeah. I got a chance to dive
• 58:30
  into some A .B. Grouse band music because I because
• 58:35
  I've to pay the bills. I'm an Uber and Lyft driver.
• 58:38
  Yeah. I mean, I love Dirty Little Secret. I love
• 58:39
  Mariana and Dirty Little Secret. That was written
• 58:42
  about. Do you know what that's about? You know
• 58:45
  what? I wanted to ask you, because I was like,
• 58:47
  is this just an on -the -nose, like, sensual
• 58:50
  song, or is there something more beyond that?
• 58:52
  Can you tell me the meaning behind that song?
• 58:54
  So normally I would just say, yes, it's a sensual
• 58:58
  song, except that your podcast is delicious,
• 59:02
  right? Yeah, the delicious culture, yeah, yeah.
• 59:04
  Delicious culture, so I will tell you that it's
• 59:08
  about little Debbie Swiss rolls. The snack cake.
• 59:13
  The snack. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay.
• 59:17
  You can't just let it go at that. Tell me more.
• 59:19
  Like what, like you just had a little Debbie
• 59:21
  snack cake, like one day? I'll send you the song
• 59:23
  in case you want to play it, but. Please, please
• 59:26
  do. Yeah. It was the first song that I was hearing
• 59:29
  on, you know, going, you know, going through
• 59:31
  my work drive and I just, it was, it was as catchy
• 59:34
  and as upbeat as you want it to be, but. I don't.
• 59:37
  eat Little Debbie Swiss Rolls anymore, because
• 59:40
  I'm trying to be on a health plan. I'm trying
• 59:42
  to keep just to these two chins I have. But I
• 59:47
  freaking love them, like love them. I don't know
• 59:50
  why. They're not even that great, but they are
• 59:53
  great. Like something not being great is great.
• 59:56
  And so I love Little Debbie Swiss Rolls. So my
• 59:59
  youngest daughter, who was just here in Omaha
• 1:00:01
  for a month. I was so excited. She's almost 22.
• 1:00:04
  She'll be 22 in September. But when she was in
• 1:00:07
  middle school, we were hanging out in the bathroom
• 1:00:10
  like you do at home with your daughters and just
• 1:00:13
  everybody chatting about stupid stuff. And she
• 1:00:15
  was like, Mom, why do you like... Little Debbie
• 1:00:17
  Swiss rolled so much, and I was like, I don't
• 1:00:18
  know. I feel like they're my dirty little secret.
• 1:00:21
  Like, I just love their, like, making jokes about
• 1:00:24
  it. And so she and I started joking around with
• 1:00:26
  this song. You're my dirty little secret. I like
• 1:00:28
  the way you roll. Yeah. But it's literally because
• 1:00:33
  it's rolled. So yeah, yeah, my dirty little secret.
• 1:00:36
  I like the way you're no good for my body, but
• 1:00:38
  you're so good for my soul. So I wonder if you
• 1:00:41
  play a game with people where like they they
• 1:00:43
  say, oh, my God, I love dirty little secret.
• 1:00:45
  They think it's like something sexual. And then
• 1:00:47
  you're just like, oh, like, wait a minute, I
• 1:00:49
  got a surprise for you. I have been known to
• 1:00:51
  tell people at the at a show. I'll be like, I
• 1:00:53
  don't I don't know if you guys know this. I don't
• 1:00:55
  know if I've told everybody, but I do have a
• 1:00:58
  girlfriend. Her I. She's been in my life since
• 1:01:03
  before I was married since before I had kids
• 1:01:06
  Her name is little Debbie and then people you'll
• 1:01:08
  see some people get it and then other people
• 1:01:11
  are still like What? And and I love that too
• 1:01:17
  also I love that and then I'll say yes little
• 1:01:20
  Debbie she has a swiss roll that I can't say
• 1:01:22
  no to and but I I have also told people that
• 1:01:26
  I Have been known to cheat on little Debbie now
• 1:01:29
  and then with ho ho Yeah, I was going to say
• 1:01:32
  because like, you know, there are people who
• 1:01:35
  call them ho -hos. They're different. I know.
• 1:01:39
  I know. But like, I feel like it's like when
• 1:01:43
  people like call it Vaseline versus petroleum
• 1:01:46
  jelly, like it's just, it's all about like that
• 1:01:48
  strong brand identity. It's so much more fun
• 1:01:50
  to call them ho -hos, even though they're technically
• 1:01:52
  switch roles. I know, because Ho -Hos is from
• 1:01:56
  Hostess, right? The Hostess is the Ho -Hos. Yes.
• 1:01:59
  It's like calling Next Care Bandages, Band -Aids.
• 1:02:04
  Band -Aids is a company. Next Care Bandages are
• 1:02:07
  a company. They're both bandages. But everybody
• 1:02:10
  calls them Band -Aid because Band -Aid's done
• 1:02:12
  such a great job of branding what they are. Ho
• 1:02:16
  -Hos. Ho -Hos are... hostess. Little Debbie has
• 1:02:20
  their Swiss rolls and for years I only ate ho
• 1:02:23
  -hos but then I tried a Little Debbie Swiss roll
• 1:02:25
  and I was like objectively better. Is it really
• 1:02:28
  different? What's so different and better about
• 1:02:30
  it? It's a little less plastic. Take a ho -ho.
• 1:02:35
  This is the taste test that I would win on it.
• 1:02:37
  Ho -hos versus Swiss rolls. Take a ho -ho and
• 1:02:39
  a Swiss roll and a diet Pepsi and a diet Coke.
• 1:02:41
  Diet Coke can versus Diet Coke McDonald's, I
• 1:02:45
  will win. You will never get a wrong answer from
• 1:02:48
  me, ever. I will follow it up. And it took me
• 1:02:57
  a long time to realize this years into my time
• 1:02:59
  here in Vermont, but also like fake syrup and
• 1:03:02
  maple syrup, because I used to think that like
• 1:03:04
  it all just blended together. But then I just
• 1:03:07
  committed to having maple syrup for like a week.
• 1:03:10
  And then I went back to the fake syrup and it
• 1:03:12
  was like, oh, I get it now. It is very different.
• 1:03:17
  Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to be mad at me as
• 1:03:20
  a Northeasterner to tell you that I really hate,
• 1:03:25
  I actually like the cheap stuff the best. Really?
• 1:03:28
  I don't hate you. I question why. What's your
• 1:03:33
  reason? Could we look at a few of the identifying
• 1:03:36
  factors here? I like diet sodas and I like ho
• 1:03:40
  -hos and Swiss rolls. Clearly I'm a corn syrup
• 1:03:43
  girl. Hey, I mean, you are as Midwest as they
• 1:03:47
  get. As Midwest as they get. Can I ask what led
• 1:03:55
  to, uh, what's, what's the right word? The, the
• 1:03:58
  dissolution of the AV Grouse band because you
• 1:04:01
  guys are not a band anymore. What, what happened
• 1:04:03
  to that? We ended in March and that was so sad.
• 1:04:06
  It was because, so as a full band, we toured
• 1:04:09
  a lot, like hard for a long time. And it is,
• 1:04:15
  and honestly, it takes up a lot of your life,
• 1:04:18
  you know, like, um, I was ready for it and I
• 1:04:22
  was ready to go forward. So Chris, so the band
• 1:04:25
  was called A .V. Grouse Band. So there's Chris
• 1:04:27
  A .V. and Jenny Grouse and then the band, right?
• 1:04:30
  And so it's hard when you name your band after
• 1:04:32
  there's two people and one person wants out.
• 1:04:35
  So Chris was just, he was getting married. He
• 1:04:38
  was wanting to spend more time in the same space
• 1:04:42
  where she was. Totally makes sense. And he also
• 1:04:46
  just was like, the grind we were doing is sort
• 1:04:48
  of like, I could be doing this at home, you know?
• 1:04:50
  And I felt like we were really pushing forward,
• 1:04:53
  like we were gonna get somewhere with this, and
• 1:04:55
  we were already getting somewhere. But you can't
• 1:04:58
  battle someone into wanting to be there, you
• 1:05:01
  know? It just doesn't work. And so the hardest
• 1:05:04
  part was, for me personally, is... We all knew
• 1:05:09
  as a band a couple years in advance that he was
• 1:05:11
  preparing at some point to leave. We didn't know
• 1:05:13
  exactly what date, but we knew it was coming.
• 1:05:16
  So then that delayed wanting to write an album.
• 1:05:18
  We didn't really put an album together because
• 1:05:20
  we knew we didn't want to tour it. I was also
• 1:05:23
  going through a divorce at the time. My kids
• 1:05:25
  were all off. at college or in other places on
• 1:05:28
  the globe. And I was going through menopause,
• 1:05:31
  holy crud. There was a lot of stuff going on,
• 1:05:33
  John. And it was just a really tough time. So
• 1:05:35
  I was really sad that not only were my relationships
• 1:05:40
  changing with my now ex, my kid's father, I prefer
• 1:05:44
  that, because he's such a good man. And then
• 1:05:47
  also my children, they were all off. I was an
• 1:05:50
  empty nester. I was going through this change
• 1:05:52
  in my own life. And then I was losing my income.
• 1:05:56
  I banned. I mean, the thing I had put all of
• 1:05:58
  my energy and all of my eggs into in that basket.
• 1:06:01
  So it was an intensely stressful time, but it
• 1:06:04
  also felt like a very freeing time. And so I
• 1:06:08
  realize now, after a lot of tears and stress
• 1:06:12
  and worry, that just like my parents selling
• 1:06:15
  the radio station, which launched me into doing
• 1:06:19
  my next thing, that this change with A .V. Grouse
• 1:06:22
  Band, which officially ended in March, but I
• 1:06:25
  knew it was coming, so I was already prepping
• 1:06:27
  for it. It launched me into a new space which
• 1:06:29
  was, and the divorce too, I mean all of it. Where
• 1:06:32
  am I gonna live? How am I gonna pay my rent?
• 1:06:35
  What choices am I making? Am I gonna stay a musician?
• 1:06:39
  Can I stay a musician? Do I need to go get a
• 1:06:43
  career going again that's outside of music? What
• 1:06:45
  am I gonna do? And so it pushed me to... to,
• 1:06:48
  it forced me to have to make a decision and move
• 1:06:50
  forward. And I did. And honestly, looking back
• 1:06:53
  now, I wouldn't change a moment of it. There
• 1:06:56
  was a lot of scared nights and sad nights. I've
• 1:07:00
  never lived alone, John. I'm here in this house
• 1:07:02
  in Omaha that I'm doing a songwriting residency
• 1:07:05
  here. And they gave me this house to live in,
• 1:07:07
  which is just lovely. It's called the Music House.
• 1:07:10
  I've never lived alone. Here I am for the very
• 1:07:12
  first time. Well, two questions. Wait, wait,
• 1:07:16
  one. So you like when you first moved out of
• 1:07:21
  your parents house you went like right in with
• 1:07:24
  David I went up with people. Oh live with people.
• 1:07:27
  Okay. I was on the road for a year Then I came
• 1:07:30
  back from being on the road and I moved into
• 1:07:32
  a house with seven women in Iowa City And that's
• 1:07:36
  when I started working at the law firm. I met
• 1:07:37
  David and three months later I moved into his
• 1:07:40
  apartment and then I never yeah, that was 30
• 1:07:42
  years of living with him. So, okay, so Question
• 1:07:45
  one, what is that like living alone for the first
• 1:07:50
  time at this stage of your life? And two, I'm
• 1:07:56
  curious about the foundation of how you got that
• 1:07:59
  Omaha music residency that you're at right now.
• 1:08:01
  Well, that came from music friends. So my friends,
• 1:08:04
  Terry Odabi and Anika Chambers, who are both
• 1:08:08
  incredible blues women, originally from Houston,
• 1:08:10
  Texas, and one out of Oakland, California. They're
• 1:08:16
  my friends. They give me the hard truth. And
• 1:08:21
  they are strong women and they definitely tell
• 1:08:24
  me how it is. So, Terry, she's just smooth and
• 1:08:27
  she's older than me and she just is like, I don't
• 1:08:31
  know why you're putting up with this or why you're
• 1:08:33
  doing this. She just doesn't, the head rolls
• 1:08:35
  a lot. She does a lot of that. I get some of
• 1:08:38
  the finger sometime too. And Anika is younger
• 1:08:41
  than me and she is bossy. And I love her. I love
• 1:08:46
  her for that. And, but they both listened to
• 1:08:49
  me boohoo about being scared and not knowing
• 1:08:52
  where I was going, what I was gonna do. And they
• 1:08:54
  were like, all right, stop crying. They're like,
• 1:08:58
  now what are you gonna do? I mean, they were
• 1:08:59
  really, they... They pushed me in such a good
• 1:09:02
  way. And they were the ones who knew Jeff Davis
• 1:09:04
  and Vanessa Marie here in Omaha that ran, they
• 1:09:07
  run this, well, they run the music house, but
• 1:09:09
  they also have a thing called Playing with Fire,
• 1:09:11
  which is happening in two weekends here in Omaha.
• 1:09:14
  Been going for years, free music. They bring
• 1:09:16
  in world -class bands, like, I mean, from around
• 1:09:19
  the globe. And they really like blues, but they
• 1:09:23
  do blues, rock, and they'll throw in other things
• 1:09:26
  too. I mean, they just like good music. And you
• 1:09:28
  bring them in at no charge to anybody except
• 1:09:30
  themselves. They pay for it entirely. It's wild.
• 1:09:34
  It's amazing what they do. And they've committed
• 1:09:37
  to it over and over and over and over, year after
• 1:09:40
  year. So they know Paul Deloria, who was Anika's
• 1:09:44
  husband, and they know Anika and they know Terry.
• 1:09:47
  And they were the ones who said, they're looking
• 1:09:49
  for a new resident at the music house in Omaha.
• 1:09:52
  What do you think about Omaha? And I was like,
• 1:09:54
  never have thought about Omaha in my whole life.
• 1:09:56
  Yeah. And honestly, I had no idea. I really had
• 1:10:00
  no idea. Omaha, while it may not have the stunning
• 1:10:03
  beauty of Decora, Iowa or some of these other
• 1:10:06
  places. From what I hear in Nebraska, it's flat,
• 1:10:09
  isn't it? It's not... Neglation's definitely
• 1:10:12
  game through here. Yeah. It is so cool. Omaha,
• 1:10:17
  the metro area is like a million people. So just
• 1:10:19
  by nature of having that many people, it is diverse.
• 1:10:22
  It is culturally interesting. There is music
• 1:10:25
  every night of the week in so many places that
• 1:10:28
  I can't keep up with. There are amazing food
• 1:10:31
  opportunities and bar opportunities and outreach
• 1:10:34
  opportunities. And they put money into public
• 1:10:37
  works. So they've got public parks that are great
• 1:10:40
  and kids and families go, I just, I love it.
• 1:10:42
  I love it so much. It has been a real eye -opening
• 1:10:46
  experience for me to be around other songwriters
• 1:10:49
  that also do this as their job. That's crazy.
• 1:10:53
  And they live here. So to be able to connect
• 1:10:56
  with those, oops, sorry, I'm bouncing, to connect
• 1:10:58
  with people. I'm getting excited and I'm just...
• 1:11:01
  I know. That's good. That's good. I love that.
• 1:11:03
  You can tell I do love Omaha. And so I got this
• 1:11:07
  residency because of those two friends of mine
• 1:11:09
  that work in the blues. And I'm forever grateful
• 1:11:12
  for that. It was supposed to be eight months
• 1:11:14
  originally. And then they extended me because
• 1:11:16
  I was having such good success connecting with
• 1:11:18
  the community. And that's really what they wanted
• 1:11:20
  for the Music House. And so then they extended
• 1:11:23
  it and then they extended it again. And I'll
• 1:11:26
  be done in December. And when I'm done in December,
• 1:11:29
  it will have been two years and four months.
• 1:11:31
  Oh, my God. Well, just crazy. Can you make them
• 1:11:35
  extended even further? Oh, believe me, they've
• 1:11:37
  talked about it. But I do think part of what's
• 1:11:40
  so beautiful about the music house, and don't
• 1:11:41
  get me wrong, this house is amazing. I mean,
• 1:11:45
  I cook every, I love cooking. That stove is amazing.
• 1:11:49
  This space is amazing. It's big. I have a garden
• 1:11:53
  outside. I have a gorgeous garden outside. And
• 1:11:56
  I walk out and I pick tomatoes and I plant it
• 1:11:59
  all, but they let me. I have bok choy out there.
• 1:12:02
  I mean, I really love it. So I get excited to
• 1:12:04
  be able to pick my own things. I can see from
• 1:12:06
  right here my chili plant and my thyme and rosemary
• 1:12:09
  and my basil and my lemongrass and all these
• 1:12:13
  different things that I love to cook with. There's
• 1:12:15
  lettuce on this one. So I eat a lot of what I
• 1:12:18
  cook of what I grow here. And but it also just
• 1:12:22
  have I don't pay rent here. I only pay for my
• 1:12:25
  utilities. So the freedom that that has allowed
• 1:12:29
  me to not take as many gigs this year. in the
• 1:12:32
  last two years, so that I could really focus
• 1:12:34
  on writing an album, recording an album, producing
• 1:12:38
  an album, all of those things has been a gift
• 1:12:40
  unlike any other. Like, now I have an album coming
• 1:12:44
  out, my solo debut album in September, by the
• 1:12:47
  way, called Music House. Is it of course dedicated
• 1:12:51
  to sweet old Omaha? I talk about the process
• 1:12:53
  of Producing a solo album because this is your
• 1:12:56
  first very first solo project So that must be
• 1:13:01
  both exciting and frightening. I would imagine
• 1:13:03
  it is but mostly exciting It has good only fears
• 1:13:07
  that the only part that's been frightening was
• 1:13:09
  number one the money and I just finished a Kickstarter
• 1:13:12
  that really took off. I saw that congratulations
• 1:13:15
  Thank you. I've put almost $40 ,000 into this
• 1:13:18
  album, and that's more money than I make in a
• 1:13:21
  year. I don't make very much money. So I was
• 1:13:25
  scared, but the people came through. I mean,
• 1:13:28
  they really are amazing. And I raised, I was
• 1:13:31
  going for $25 ,000 on Kickstarter, just to help
• 1:13:35
  offset. And I raised, as of today, it's $36 ,000.
• 1:13:39
  Nice. Like, mind blown. That helps me because
• 1:13:44
  I still have more money. There's still some of
• 1:13:47
  my own money in there, so that money's not going
• 1:13:49
  into my bank. It's going to pay all those bills
• 1:13:52
  that I have for it. But it does take the fear
• 1:13:54
  off of running the treadmill in the next few
• 1:13:57
  months trying to make up that money. So now I
• 1:13:59
  get to focus on where do I want to play? How
• 1:14:02
  do I want to present? I've got some great things
• 1:14:05
  coming up and I'm very excited about that. Producing
• 1:14:08
  that album, the scariest part is how is it going
• 1:14:11
  to be received? And I know other artists will
• 1:14:13
  tell me, you can't worry about that. You're an
• 1:14:15
  artist. Your job is to create your art and how
• 1:14:19
  other people respond to it is not your business.
• 1:14:21
  Right. It's true. Yeah. But also I've already
• 1:14:25
  established that I'm a first born Midwestern
• 1:14:28
  daughter. It's in your genes to care what other
• 1:14:33
  people think. I care, John. I care so much. Yeah,
• 1:14:38
  I care so much. And so, you know, I got my first
• 1:14:41
  review today. Let me see. Hopefully it's glowing.
• 1:14:46
  Well, so the the ending line made me happy. And
• 1:14:50
  it said, let's see the end line, I'll just give
• 1:14:52
  that to you. Ginny Grouse has it all. Sorry,
• 1:14:55
  it makes me laugh to even say these things. But
• 1:14:57
  you do. Oh, thanks. Jenny Graz has it all. She
• 1:14:59
  is an evocative songwriter with powerful vocals,
• 1:15:02
  sung with clarity and conviction. She is a compelling
• 1:15:05
  new voice in American roots music. Music House
• 1:15:07
  is an award worthy performance. Ah. That's cool,
• 1:15:12
  because I was real nervous to open that this
• 1:15:14
  morning when I got it. No lie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:17
  Was this like a local publication in Omaha that
• 1:15:20
  published that review? No, it's called Musics.
• 1:15:22
  I think it's, sorry. Well, it was. I think it
• 1:15:25
  was from Making the Scene, which is a magazine.
• 1:15:29
  Richard Ludmer. So I need to go make sure. Oh,
• 1:15:32
  it's for Night Circus. Yeah. So there you go.
• 1:15:34
  So I don't know them specifically, but I was
• 1:15:37
  really glad that they felt that way. But the
• 1:15:40
  thing is, I'm going to get some bad reviews,
• 1:15:41
  too. Yeah. Especially because I come from the
• 1:15:44
  blues world and this album and I'm being very
• 1:15:46
  straightforward about this This album is me in
• 1:15:49
  a nutshell. It is a little blues a little sort
• 1:15:52
  of that like front porch country It's a little
• 1:15:55
  got rock in it. It's got all of the things. It's
• 1:15:57
  got singer -songwriter vibes It's gotten all
• 1:16:00
  of it and somehow it still works for me It still
• 1:16:03
  works because I'm not trying to say hey look
• 1:16:06
  at me do all my blues songs I can do those done
• 1:16:09
  those for nine years now people know I I can
• 1:16:11
  do blues What I want to do is to show the fuller
• 1:16:15
  representation of who I am as an artist, which
• 1:16:17
  freaks some people out because they like genres,
• 1:16:20
  they like specific. I want to know where it fits.
• 1:16:23
  Honestly, I just say that it's American roots
• 1:16:26
  music because I grew up listening to country.
• 1:16:29
  I'm obsessed with the blues I love when they
• 1:16:31
  blend together. So I also like pop and rock and
• 1:16:34
  I like songwriter lyrics so you like Bonnie rate
• 1:16:38
  if you like and Bonnie rates a good example because
• 1:16:41
  she's older and has had a tradition of having
• 1:16:45
  blues but also pop hits but But if you can understand
• 1:16:50
  that, that not every song she sings is a 12 -bar
• 1:16:52
  blues, then you can understand a little bit of
• 1:16:55
  where I'm trying to go with this, which is this
• 1:16:57
  is a representation of my time here at the music
• 1:17:00
  house, of thoughts and feelings that I was working
• 1:17:03
  through, but also the silliness that I was enjoying,
• 1:17:06
  the opportunities to be me and write a drinking
• 1:17:09
  song. You know, I mean, there's everything in
• 1:17:11
  there. The heartbreak, there's a few of those
• 1:17:14
  in there. I even wrote a song about why you shouldn't
• 1:17:16
  date me. Oh. It's called Heartbreak and Misery.
• 1:17:21
  Oh, no. Come on. You're being unnecessarily self
• 1:17:25
  -deprecating, Jenny. Well, no. Have you met me?
• 1:17:28
  I have. And I still disagree. I'm big on the
• 1:17:33
  self -deprecation. In fact, someone told me that
• 1:17:35
  I need to ease up a little bit, but it's also
• 1:17:37
  just part of who I am. But the thing is, this
• 1:17:40
  album represents me and I couldn't be more proud
• 1:17:42
  of it. So there are going to be some reviews
• 1:17:44
  that come out and say, I don't get it. But that's
• 1:17:48
  okay, because what I do know is that the people
• 1:17:50
  that like it are gonna, I think they're gonna
• 1:17:53
  love it. The production is so good on it. I went
• 1:17:56
  down to Nashville and worked with Casey Wasner,
• 1:17:58
  who we also worked with, with A .B. Grouse Band
• 1:18:00
  and I just, he's from Northfield, Minnesota originally,
• 1:18:03
  farm kid. He's so good. He's Kev Moe's drummer.
• 1:18:06
  He's Robin Ford's, has been Robin Ford's rhythm
• 1:18:08
  guitar player. He has the Grammys for the Taj
• 1:18:11
  Mahal Kev Moe albums. He's just great. He's amazing.
• 1:18:15
  So, so yeah, I'm really excited and we're all
• 1:18:16
  going to be out in Vegas together this. Um, so
• 1:18:19
  the album comes out September 4th and then on
• 1:18:21
  September, I think it's the 13th, 14th, whatever
• 1:18:23
  that week is 11th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th.
• 1:18:26
  We're all going to be out in Vegas for what's
• 1:18:28
  called the big blues bender. And, uh, and it's
• 1:18:32
  Kev Moe and Taj Mahal and Bonnie Raitt and Kenny,
• 1:18:35
  Kenny Wayne Shepherd and Jenny Grouse. Yeah.
• 1:18:39
  Yeah. Look at you. That's crazy, John. I know.
• 1:18:42
  Oh my God. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. You
• 1:18:44
  and I used to hang out on Nordic Fest doing like
• 1:18:46
  morning show broadcasts. And now I'm going to
• 1:18:48
  be out in Vegas. What is going on with my life?
• 1:18:51
  What is life? Yeah. And by the way, I am so not
• 1:18:55
  cool. I am the person who's like, that's fine.
• 1:18:59
  Oh, come on. You don't give yourself enough credit.
• 1:19:02
  No, but I'm just, I'm literally, this is what
• 1:19:05
  my motto is about life. I'm just happy to be
• 1:19:08
  here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Life is beautiful.
• 1:19:10
  Life is beautiful. I totally agree. So I feel
• 1:19:16
  like we have to get to our three delicious questions
• 1:19:18
  because now that you're hyping up so much, your
• 1:19:23
  love of cooking and your beautiful garden. I
• 1:19:25
  mean, this should be an easy question for you
• 1:19:27
  to answer the first one. What's a delicious meal
• 1:19:29
  that you've had lately? Oh, gosh. Must be one
• 1:19:31
  of yours. Well, honestly, I'll give you one of
• 1:19:35
  mine. This is one of my favorite things to make.
• 1:19:37
  And I don't know what it's called. And it's absolutely
• 1:19:40
  a bastardization of whatever real cooks from
• 1:19:43
  the Asian communities do. But this is just what
• 1:19:46
  I do. So I'm a big fan of that's why I grow bok
• 1:19:50
  choy. So I have bok choy and sausage, ground
• 1:19:52
  sausage, turkey sausage to keep it healthier.
• 1:19:55
  And bok choy and ground turkey sausage and tofu
• 1:19:57
  all mixed up with onions and what else do I put
• 1:20:02
  in there? Sometimes it's just whatever vegetables
• 1:20:04
  I have around. But I cook it up with some gochujang
• 1:20:08
  sauce, like the paste, and then some water. And
• 1:20:12
  then I might put in, oh, definitely garlic and
• 1:20:15
  ginger and some, you know, a little bit of just
• 1:20:19
  soy sauce if I need a little bit of salt in there.
• 1:20:21
  But it's so good. I love it. It's one of my favorite
• 1:20:25
  meals. Either that or... I have tomatoes up there
• 1:20:28
  and I have some pasta that I made last night
• 1:20:30
  that I have cooled overnight so that it has less
• 1:20:33
  of a glycemic index response. What does that
• 1:20:38
  mean? I have no idea what glycemic index response
• 1:20:40
  means. So go Google it. It'll be a whole thing.
• 1:20:42
  But like people that, I'm not diabetic, but people
• 1:20:45
  that are trying to work on their insulin levels
• 1:20:47
  spiking and things like that. People start working
• 1:20:50
  on like why rice and pasta and things like that
• 1:20:52
  are bad for you because they spiky glycemic index.
• 1:20:55
  However, it turns out if you cook them like they
• 1:20:58
  do in other cultures, for instance in Asia, they
• 1:21:02
  tend to make the rice, but then they'll cool
• 1:21:04
  it and then they'll weight and then reheat it
• 1:21:08
  later. If you cool rice and pasta and then heat
• 1:21:14
  it up again, it changes the structure of the
• 1:21:20
  carbohydrates, basically, and don't sit in your
• 1:21:23
  body the same way they do if you eat them hot.
• 1:21:25
  I mean, you're still eating them hot. You've
• 1:21:27
  let them cool first and then reheat them. I have
• 1:21:30
  pasta to reheat and I have my tomatoes and I'll
• 1:21:33
  take a little balsamic and a little bit of oil
• 1:21:35
  and some garlic and salt and pepper and I'll
• 1:21:37
  put those tomatoes in a pan and I'll blister
• 1:21:39
  them and they get really good. And then you've
• 1:21:41
  got your pasta. You just pour it over. Oh, so
• 1:21:44
  good. Maybe add a little bit more olive oil and
• 1:21:46
  then some Parmesan cheese. I like what I've always
• 1:21:50
  wondered for, for people like you, how do you
• 1:21:53
  approach cooking? Do you like just have a day
• 1:21:56
  or a few hours where you're just like, all right,
• 1:21:57
  let me just like improvise and try stuff with
• 1:22:00
  these few ingredients or are, are, do you look
• 1:22:02
  up specific recipes that maybe you tried before
• 1:22:04
  in a restaurant and you like, how do you approach
• 1:22:06
  it? I used to do a lot of recipes when I, especially
• 1:22:09
  cause I was so busy. You know, I didn't have
• 1:22:11
  time to, now I have a little bit more flexible
• 1:22:13
  day. Like I get to choose my day unless I'm on
• 1:22:16
  the road for weeks, which also exhausts me. And
• 1:22:18
  when I'm on the road for weeks, I can't cook.
• 1:22:20
  So that's why when I come home, like yesterday,
• 1:22:22
  I made a sweep. did a sweet potato and a steak
• 1:22:25
  and I oh my gosh it was so good I'm gonna make
• 1:22:28
  some greek salad today with my anyway I love
• 1:22:31
  cooking when I'm home because I'm not home I'm
• 1:22:34
  gone more than I'm home yeah yeah yeah so when
• 1:22:37
  I'm here I love to cook and so I don't follow
• 1:22:41
  recipes anymore but that's because I spent years
• 1:22:44
  following recipes now I just like what do I have
• 1:22:47
  around the kitchen what foods do I like okay
• 1:22:49
  I've got rice or I've got I've got some meat
• 1:22:52
  in the freezer or I've got these vegetables now
• 1:22:55
  that the vegetables are all coming out now I
• 1:22:57
  just want to use them so anything that I can
• 1:22:59
  figure out and the tomatoes I just last year
• 1:23:02
  I started I had so many tomatoes that I wanted
• 1:23:04
  to cook them because they were going bad so I
• 1:23:06
  did also I'm like in salt and pepper and oil
• 1:23:08
  and I cooked them and they taste so good so then
• 1:23:10
  I started doing that because then I could put
• 1:23:12
  them in the fridge now I have a little more time
• 1:23:14
  to just have fun with cooking and fun and fun
• 1:23:17
  you were having Johnny I am and then I And I
• 1:23:21
  take pictures of it. Oh, of course. Yes. I mean,
• 1:23:24
  I'm on video with you now, but I have flowers
• 1:23:26
  behind me. So like I buy myself flowers. I can
• 1:23:30
  buy myself that one. Oh, wait, wait. Like for,
• 1:23:33
  for when you like make the most perfect meal
• 1:23:34
  ever to like as a, because I'm not home that
• 1:23:37
  often. So then I have flowers and then I cook
• 1:23:40
  myself a dinner. And last night I took out a
• 1:23:42
  champagne glass and I poured some diet Pepsi
• 1:23:44
  in it and I had my steak and my sweet potato
• 1:23:48
  and my flowers. And then I turned my I don't
• 1:23:51
  have a TV. I haven't had one in probably 25 years.
• 1:23:54
  But I have a computer here, and then I just put
• 1:23:58
  on a show that I wanted to watch. And oh my God,
• 1:24:00
  it was the best night ever. Got yourself a little
• 1:24:02
  fancy dinner date there. I like that. I like
• 1:24:04
  that. What is a delicious pop culture obsession
• 1:24:07
  that you're having this moment? This could be
• 1:24:09
  anything. TV show, movie, book, podcast, play,
• 1:24:12
  anything you're watching or listening to that
• 1:24:14
  you want to share. I get obsessed about a lot
• 1:24:16
  of different things. I had a friend of mine introduce
• 1:24:19
  me to C -MAT last year and I bought her album
• 1:24:24
  Euro Country on vinyl last year and I listen
• 1:24:28
  to it all the time. It's such pop goodness and
• 1:24:31
  I love her so much and she was just at Hinterland
• 1:24:35
  Festival here in Iowa so now she's popping up
• 1:24:37
  all over my screens and man she's just fun. She's
• 1:24:41
  from the UK but she... She's a hoot. So go check
• 1:24:45
  her out. See Matt. That's probably the biggest
• 1:24:47
  pop culture thing I'm doing right now. That and,
• 1:24:50
  you know, I still have my little TikTok. Talk
• 1:24:54
  about your little TikTok. What are you doing
• 1:24:55
  on the little TikTok? I deleted my TikTok and
• 1:24:58
  then I added it back on again about four months
• 1:25:01
  ago. I just stalk everybody. I just I just watch
• 1:25:06
  everybody's lives going by. I don't post anything.
• 1:25:10
  I just you're exactly like my wife. That's what
• 1:25:12
  she loves to do. Yeah. Just not post. Yeah. I'm
• 1:25:15
  just a consumer and I like to do it. Everybody
• 1:25:18
  says you're not supposed to watch stuff before
• 1:25:20
  you go to bed. It makes me so good and sleepy
• 1:25:22
  I will lay there for like a good 15 minutes and
• 1:25:24
  after watching everybody else's lives or like
• 1:25:27
  Karma speed car chases where a cop picks them
• 1:25:30
  up and they get a ticket I love those two or
• 1:25:33
  like little kids doing funny things or I don't
• 1:25:36
  know I I don't know what's wrong with me But
• 1:25:38
  I do get a laugh kick out of the babies blowing
• 1:25:41
  out their diapers. I think that's hilarious.
• 1:25:44
  I love like You don't know what I mean, do you?
• 1:25:46
  No. But I will say I, as someone, as a musician,
• 1:25:52
  and given the fact that TikTok reigns so large
• 1:25:55
  in the music industry these days, I'm surprised
• 1:25:57
  that you're not putting your art out there on
• 1:26:00
  TikTok. And I'm curious as to why. Yeah, it's
• 1:26:03
  a good question. I'm sure the people that I'm
• 1:26:06
  working with on distribution and things like
• 1:26:08
  that are going to want me to. I don't know. It's
• 1:26:10
  probably twofold. One is I just don't have time
• 1:26:13
  for it. Like it's to keep up with that level
• 1:26:16
  of posting. I do like one social media post a
• 1:26:20
  day. That's about, and sometimes I have to like
• 1:26:22
  share another thing, but I don't spend a lot
• 1:26:25
  of time on it. TikTok just sort of calms me down
• 1:26:27
  at the end of the night, shuts my brain off from
• 1:26:30
  working. And then I'm focused on other things
• 1:26:32
  rather, cause probably a little ADHD. Like I'm
• 1:26:36
  thinking all the time, like, Ooh, I should do
• 1:26:37
  this. Ooh, I should do this. Yeah. So you know
• 1:26:40
  what I mean. So staring at something else calms
• 1:26:43
  me down. And then it shut, and then I, then I
• 1:26:46
  realized I'm tired and then I go, oh, she goes
• 1:26:48
  to sleep. So I like that it's not work for me.
• 1:26:51
  I like that it's just pure enjoyment. I'm not
• 1:26:54
  going onto TikTok thinking, oh, I should have
• 1:26:56
  posted another one or all these people commented
• 1:26:58
  and now I have to respond, not have to, but want
• 1:27:01
  to, but now I just feel like there's a lot of
• 1:27:02
  comments or, and also, I don't know, there are,
• 1:27:06
  there are absolutely people my age that are posting
• 1:27:09
  on TikTok and doing well. It's just, I don't
• 1:27:12
  know. Maybe I feel, maybe I feel like it's just
• 1:27:15
  not my spot. That's fine. But who knows? I say
• 1:27:18
  that now, John. And then next week your, your
• 1:27:21
  wife might be like, Hey, I think this is my girl.
• 1:27:25
  Yep. Yep. Who's this Jenny from the band? Right.
• 1:27:28
  She sounds fantastic. Um, so last question. What
• 1:27:33
  is the delicious thing that's happened in your
• 1:27:34
  life lately? That's not your album. Because I
• 1:27:37
  know your album is coming up, and that's great,
• 1:27:38
  but that's not your album. That is great. Actually,
• 1:27:40
  it just made me teary. And I think usually when
• 1:27:43
  something makes me teary, it's because it's true.
• 1:27:49
  The most delicious thing that has happened to
• 1:27:51
  me recently is super corny, John. But it's just
• 1:27:57
  like... finding myself after years of feeling
• 1:28:00
  a little bit lost and not sure of who I was and
• 1:28:04
  realizing this is what's making me teary, realizing
• 1:28:07
  that I can do this by myself. I can. And I mean
• 1:28:10
  that in life, but also with my album and with
• 1:28:13
  my band and with my, you know, just suddenly
• 1:28:16
  in the last two years have to sort of be totally
• 1:28:19
  in charge of my own self. And that can be really
• 1:28:22
  frightening. I've actually found that it's the
• 1:28:26
  most joy Filled freedom filled just like inspiring
• 1:28:30
  way to live for me right now that can change
• 1:28:33
  in the future But that's the most delicious thing
• 1:28:35
  right now is realizing how happy I am finding
• 1:28:38
  my own way right now That's so great. Oh my god,
• 1:28:42
  so corny. Look at me getting all teary. Ah Yay,
• 1:28:46
  that's one on the new album John There's a song
• 1:28:48
  called make your way and I wrote it for myself
• 1:28:50
  on a night when I was scared here in the music
• 1:28:52
  house and I just wanted a reminder that I can
• 1:28:55
  do this and And so I hope when that album comes
• 1:28:59
  out, people will check it out, too, because I
• 1:29:01
  do think it's one of those songs that can remind
• 1:29:04
  each person individually that we can do this.
• 1:29:07
  We can. Remind everyone where they can follow
• 1:29:09
  you, where they can find the album when it comes
• 1:29:11
  out. Just give us all of the plugs, Jenny. All
• 1:29:14
  of the plugs. OK, so Jenny Grouse is terrible
• 1:29:16
  to spell. I'm so sorry. That's just the way it
• 1:29:18
  is. Once you learn it, you'll never forget. J
• 1:29:22
  -E -N -I. Cause I'm going to do that one weird.
• 1:29:25
  And then grouse, G R O U W S. Can I ask a question
• 1:29:29
  and we can cut this out if it's too personal.
• 1:29:32
  the decision to keep your Your married name your
• 1:29:38
  married name Was it because you were like, oh
• 1:29:42
  god, it's gonna be such a headache to like rebrand
• 1:29:44
  everything Or is it just you you just genuinely
• 1:29:48
  loved the last name It just rolls off the tongue
• 1:29:50
  with your first name and you like what was the
• 1:29:52
  decision behind that because I'm not sure it
• 1:29:54
  rolls off the tongue Everybody stumbles on grounds.
• 1:29:56
  They always have but but I'll be honest it First
• 1:30:00
  and foremost, I have three daughters with the
• 1:30:03
  last name Grouse. That's true. I love that we
• 1:30:05
  share that name. I am not unhappy with that part
• 1:30:10
  of my life. Does that make sense? I think sometimes
• 1:30:12
  people want to get rid of a last name because
• 1:30:15
  it triggers bad memories. For me, that's not
• 1:30:18
  the case. I mean, yes, we did indeed end our
• 1:30:22
  marriage, but I had that, I had a... a beautiful
• 1:30:27
  time in that relationship, for the most part.
• 1:30:29
  You know, there were things that ended up not
• 1:30:31
  working, and that's what happened. But I don't
• 1:30:34
  mind. I like sharing the same last name. Number
• 1:30:37
  two, I had that last name for almost 28 years.
• 1:30:42
  27 years. I had my maiden last name for 22 years.
• 1:30:48
  Yeah, so you've had this last name longer than
• 1:30:50
  your maiden. Longer. And then thirdly, I had
• 1:30:56
  a band where people began to know me as Jenny
• 1:30:58
  Grouse, the A .V. Grouse band. So I think it's
• 1:31:01
  a, it is a difficult branding thing to think,
• 1:31:04
  well, am I just going to go by Jenny? Somebody,
• 1:31:06
  people are like, just go, just Jenny, like just
• 1:31:08
  Jack. Exactly. Just Jenny. And I did, I did joke
• 1:31:13
  about that, but the thing is everybody knows
• 1:31:15
  Jenny, not everybody. That sounds really big
• 1:31:18
  headed and so not Midwest. Everybody will know
• 1:31:21
  eventually. Yeah, right. The people that know,
• 1:31:25
  my music, already know Jenny Grouse, to have
• 1:31:27
  to train them to go find Jenny Holton, whoever
• 1:31:30
  that is. And I don't know that I am Jenny Holton.
• 1:31:33
  I'm Jenny Holton Grouse. I'm still the same person.
• 1:31:37
  And so when all of those things combined, I just
• 1:31:39
  thought it wasn't even very much of a thought.
• 1:31:42
  It was just, this is who I am now. And I love
• 1:31:44
  that. All right. Continue with the plugs. I know
• 1:31:48
  everybody laughs about Facebook, but I'm going
• 1:31:50
  to go to bat for... I know there's like... Sure.
• 1:31:52
  I still use it, yeah. My daughter is like, Mom,
• 1:31:55
  get off Facebook. I get it. I get it. But here's
• 1:31:57
  what I'm going to tell you. I am on Instagram.
• 1:32:00
  I am on Facebook. I am on TikTok. All of those
• 1:32:04
  places. I have the best and most conversations
• 1:32:07
  with my fans and my friends on Facebook. I see
• 1:32:10
  that. They interact more. They connect with me.
• 1:32:13
  And it's not an age thing. This is all ages.
• 1:32:16
  I think it just provides for a more seamless
• 1:32:18
  conversation. Yeah. Well, I heard my space is
• 1:32:21
  coming back. Yeah. How do you feel about that?
• 1:32:24
  I don't even remember what my, my space was,
• 1:32:29
  but you better believe I'm probably going to
• 1:32:30
  open it back up again. I want to see Tom. Well,
• 1:32:34
  you know what? I think that Tom sold it to new
• 1:32:37
  people and the new people are trying to bring
• 1:32:39
  it back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tom, I think got his
• 1:32:41
  money and like is living a quiet, peaceful life
• 1:32:44
  and good on him. Yeah, yeah, because he could
• 1:32:46
  have been very much Mark Zuckerberg. I remember
• 1:32:48
  he was everyone's number first person. Yes! Oh
• 1:32:52
  my god. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Middle school
• 1:32:55
  and early high school for me was all about MySpace.
• 1:32:57
  And now MySpace would be returning to a very
• 1:32:59
  crowded social media field. So I wonder how they
• 1:33:02
  would fare with that. You know what I mean? Well,
• 1:33:04
  people are getting tired. They're looking for
• 1:33:05
  a new, so who knows? We'll have to see. But I
• 1:33:07
  will tell you, Jenny Grouse music on Facebook
• 1:33:10
  is where you're going to get the most interaction.
• 1:33:13
  Instagram is just J Grouse, the letter J Grouse,
• 1:33:15
  or you can look up J Grouse. That's where you'll
• 1:33:17
  get most of the posts. You just won't get as
• 1:33:20
  much interaction. find out what's going on. My
• 1:33:22
  website, Jennygrouse .com, I do have a blog there
• 1:33:25
  that I try to just do once a month. I mean, it's
• 1:33:28
  not, I don't wanna overwhelm people, but there.
• 1:33:31
  And I try to keep my dates updated. I'm also
• 1:33:34
  on Band Camp and Bands in Town and all of those
• 1:33:37
  places if you wanna follow me. And then my music,
• 1:33:40
  when it comes out, will be on Spotify and iTunes
• 1:33:43
  and Apple Music and YouTube and Distro Kid and...
• 1:33:47
  Amazon music and any place where you can find
• 1:33:50
  music is where you're going to find my music.
• 1:33:54
  So problematically, because I'm starting off
• 1:33:56
  as a new artist, I can't claim those artist pages
• 1:34:00
  until the album's released. So I have to wait
• 1:34:02
  for it to get released. So you can't really follow
• 1:34:05
  it now or pre -save it, which is very sad for
• 1:34:08
  me. But if you would just write down in your
• 1:34:11
  phone as a reminder. In your calendar, you know,
• 1:34:15
  just a little alert that September 4th. Go check
• 1:34:17
  out Ginny Grouse music, Daniel Yes, September
• 1:34:20
  4th, not September 5th. I thought you said September
• 1:34:22
  5th. It's September 4th. It's four. Okay, all
• 1:34:25
  right. I said before I was probably wrong. I'm
• 1:34:27
  tired. Okay September 4th. Yep, Friday, September
• 1:34:31
  4th and And if anyone's living in Iowa, I'm having
• 1:34:34
  my album release party in Des Moines at Captain
• 1:34:37
  Roy's with a 10 -piece band. Horns. I mean, this
• 1:34:40
  album, John, just before we go, I am talking
• 1:34:43
  horns from the Tedeschi Trucks band. Emmanuel
• 1:34:46
  from Nashville arranged my horns and played on
• 1:34:48
  it with Roy Eggy, who was with the New Power
• 1:34:51
  Generation and Prince for 15 years, and Evan
• 1:34:54
  Cobb, who's played with everyone from Aretha
• 1:34:56
  Franklin to Keb Moe. And then I've got Drew Smithers,
• 1:34:59
  who is the slide guitarist for the Marcus King
• 1:35:02
  Band, the freaking mark is King Band. They're
• 1:35:05
  on my album. Jason, South Eastern, his album
• 1:35:09
  is my, that album is my all time favorite songwriter
• 1:35:11
  album. And the man that played bass on that entire
• 1:35:14
  album is named Brian Allen. He played my entire
• 1:35:17
  album. Just what? So anyway, I'm very excited.
• 1:35:20
  There's some great people on there. And then
• 1:35:22
  this really nice person named Jenny who wrote
• 1:35:25
  the songs. I wonder if I know this nice person
• 1:35:29
  named Jenny. Yeah. This is wonderful. I'm so
• 1:35:33
  happy. I cannot wait for the album release. I'll
• 1:35:35
  do my usual plugs here. Follow The Delicious
• 1:35:38
  Culture, everybody, wherever you get your podcasts,
• 1:35:40
  Apple, Spotify, SiriusXM, Amazon, et cetera.
• 1:35:43
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• 1:35:45
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• 1:35:48
  at thedeliciouscultureaggmail .com. Follow us
• 1:35:50
  on Instagram and TikTok at The Delicious Culture.
• 1:35:53
  Subscribe on YouTube at The Delicious Culture,
• 1:35:55
  Jon François. Jon François is spelled J -O -S.
• 1:35:57
  J -E -N -F -R -A -N -C -O -I -S. Jenny. You have
• 1:36:01
  one of those names too. I do. Yeah. Well, I mean,
• 1:36:04
  well, make sure you spell the name growl. So
• 1:36:06
  every, and also smell the name Jenny, cause people
• 1:36:09
  might think it's with a Y at the end. J -E -N
• 1:36:11
  -I -G -R -O -U -W -S. Yes. Now, is technically
• 1:36:17
  where you are right now, can we still consider
• 1:36:19
  that a hashtag Grousehold? It is a hashtag Grousehold.
• 1:36:22
  I still love hashtag Grousehold. It really rolls
• 1:36:25
  off the tongue. That is very... Grousehold. I
• 1:36:27
  have to give thanks to Captain Awesome for coming
• 1:36:29
  up with that name. But John, thank you for having
• 1:36:32
  me on. I'm just so... proud of what you're doing
• 1:36:35
  in the world and you always make me happy every
• 1:36:37
  time I see you. I feel like you're like one of
• 1:36:39
  my little radio kids. Yeah, I know. You have
• 1:36:43
  to be a man and now you're married and so weird.
• 1:36:46
  Yeah, I know, right? I'm so old. No, you're not.
• 1:36:51
  No, you're not. If I can change careers in my
• 1:36:54
  mid to late 40s and end up on the Billboard charts
• 1:36:56
  twice in the top 10 position and now come out
• 1:36:59
  with my solo debut album in my 50s, John, and
• 1:37:03
  do it, you can do whatever you want. Don't let
• 1:37:05
  anybody tell you you can't. And say hi to your
• 1:37:07
  mom. Thank you. Thank you. I will do. All right.
• 1:37:10
  Well, this was great. We got to do this again.
• 1:37:12
  Until next time, let's deliciousness ring. Yeah,
• 1:37:23
  my dirty little secret I like the way you go
• 1:37:29
  You're no good for my body Oh, but you're so
• 1:37:36
  good for my soul My doctor says you're no good
• 1:37:41
  for me My girlfriends say you too