Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Inside the Culinary World: Junior Borges on Opening a New Restaurant and Food Trends Ep. 147

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Inside the Culinary World: Junior Borges on Opening a New Restaurant and Food Trends Ep. 147 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello, Chef's. This is Chef's PSA.
0:01
I'm your host, Andre Natera. We want to welcome today's guest
0:04
back, Junior Borges, good friend of mine.
0:06
He's in the process of opening up a restaurant, Nick and
0:08
Junior's, in Chicago. He's been nominated for
0:11
outstanding Chef by the James Beard Foundation as well as
0:14
numerous other awards. In this conversation, we're
0:18
going to start out talking about the restaurant that he's opening
0:20
and the process, and then we're going to get into food trends
0:24
and a lot of food talk. I think you'll enjoy this one.
0:26
Stay tuned. Tell, tell me about Nick and
0:40
juniors. Yeah, man, I mean open and we're
0:43
looking to open in May. Yeah, in Chicago, it's in the
0:48
River North area, which is, which is a really premier
0:57
locations right between like right next to the Wrigley
1:01
Building, right by the Chicago River, right in front of it
1:04
actually. It's a second Gen. space.
1:05
It's a second Gen. space. So we we we took over.
1:08
We are doing, you know, basically a facelift try like
1:11
some renovations in the space and the kitchen was in pretty
1:17
good condition doing some revisions there.
1:19
But but, but yeah, we are kind of like, you know, on schedule
1:22
to open in May Wow. And you got some of the old band
1:26
back together. Got a little bit of the old band
1:28
back together. So Justin there was my my CDC
1:34
and then trying to his ex chef at Meridian that you know him
1:40
and I have been working together for 7-8 years.
1:43
Yeah, so he he moved, he packed his whole family and and moved
1:50
to Chicago to, to to royalty should be a part.
1:52
Hey, it's it's shout out to Justin.
1:55
I really, really appreciate him so much.
1:58
And I think it's it's awesome to work, right.
2:01
The whole thing is working with people that you, you, you love
2:05
and you respect and you kind of connect with.
2:08
And I think like, you know, so I think it's great, right.
2:12
Like Nick and I. Right, people that are
2:15
listening, Nick Yanis is your partner.
2:17
So, yeah, so Nick Yanis, right. I think like maybe maybe I can't
2:20
remember if we talked about this on the on the first one.
2:22
We the last time we we talked, but but Nicky and Nicky Yanis
2:26
and I are our partners and we are doing this restaurant
2:29
together, hence the name is Nick and juniors.
2:33
So Nick kind of has his restaurants, he and Austin,
2:39
right? Like, I mean, Juniper and and
2:41
Maurice Tavern and Uncle Nicky's and and some other kind of like,
2:45
you know, things in the, in the, that he has his hands on, which
2:49
now I'm part of, of, of some of these restaurants and, and, and
2:54
it's exciting, but Nick and Junior's is really my first real
2:58
restaurant as a owner, you know, so.
3:01
And by the way, I was at Juniper, I mean, last time, last
3:04
time I went to to Juniper 8 and you were there and fuck, it was
3:08
really good. Like people for people that are
3:10
listening, if you're in Austin, you haven't been to Juniper.
3:12
Really, really good. Yeah, so the restaurant is like
3:15
crazy, right? I mean the restaurants turning
3:17
10 years old this year and it's kind of a little bit of this
3:21
Austin institution, so to speak. And then, and I think he has
3:27
this timeless design, which is interesting because you walked
3:31
in there, you feel like, ah, somebody just designed this like
3:35
last year, But it's, but it's the design that was 10 years old
3:39
and in East Austin, which was like, you know, like a, a desert
3:44
town of 10 years ago. You know, so it's kind of so,
3:48
so, so it's really an amazing like, you know, like bold move
3:52
that that has paid off. And then the restaurant lives on
3:56
and, and, and, and we are having some great things in the works
4:00
to do some renovations and some kind of like, you know, things
4:04
in the next couple of months just sort of revamp some of the
4:06
space, introduce a little lounge area and, and, and some
4:10
Upiritivo kind of like, you know, area and, and, and have
4:15
some really good people in the team.
4:18
Yeah, now and then it's sort of like, you know, shaping up to
4:22
really like push, push the restaurant to, to, to the best
4:26
it can be, you know? What you're doing in Chicago?
4:28
Did you already get a pastry chef?
4:30
We have not, we kind of like, you know, we are, we are
4:37
literally, I was just talking the phone with with Justin kind
4:40
of talking about a candidate that we that we hired, that we
4:44
well, we haven't hired yet, but we are kind of interviewing
4:48
probably, you know, like hopefully is going to be joining
4:51
the team. But somebody that is CDC but has
4:56
a lot of pastry experience. And you know, I have some of my
4:59
my connects and friends that might kind of come and, and do
5:02
some, some a little consulting work to start off with.
5:05
And, and it's kind of hard, right?
5:07
I mean, pastry, I think it's, it's, it's an interesting thing.
5:11
I think even for a lot of pastry chefs, a lot of pastry chefs
5:14
that I know, and I'm sure you know, too, that is like they
5:18
either kind of the, I know a good amount of pastry chefs that
5:21
I either have transitioned to savory, right, right.
5:24
And, and, and then there is also the pastry chefs that kind of
5:27
like take completely different route and becomes more
5:30
consultants, more like when they have their bake shop.
5:33
So they have like, you know what I mean?
5:34
They they kind of go into there because it is really hard for
5:38
restaurants to kind of afford 1, you know, and, and, and it's,
5:44
and it's a is a, it is hard because like, I feel that is
5:49
like Chicago, we want to go for right.
5:51
I think we, we, we, you know, back to, to to Chicago, like the
5:56
restaurant is, is in a great location. 2nd Jan is food is
6:03
going to be kind of this sort of evolution of what I did a little
6:07
bit at a Meridian, but but have a little more of this Italian
6:12
kind of like sensibility to it And but some of the Brazilian
6:17
things. And but but most of all, it's
6:20
really like a place about hospitality, about the full
6:24
experience rather than just being like, this is the chef
6:28
tasting menu, like eat what I'm serving you.
6:32
And and like, you know, like I think it's less about that.
6:35
It's more about kind of a restaurant that encompass all of
6:39
it. How many?
6:40
How many courses are you going to like?
6:42
How? How's the the menu format going
6:44
to be like? Maybe it's a better question.
6:45
So the bar, so we have a bar area that kind of like is in
6:48
that space was naturally divided and the bar area has it's going
6:53
to be a la carte. It's going to be a little more
6:56
like, you know, louder, a little bit like there's a little raw
6:58
bar kind of some be just like more of a they're like high
7:02
energy, kind of like, you know, fun stuff.
7:06
I like to say like the dining room is going to be fun too.
7:08
So it's kind of like it's it's not that like the bar is more
7:11
fun than the dining room. It's just like a little bit
7:13
different. And but the bar area is going to
7:17
be a la carte and then the dining room is going to be the
7:23
tasting menu kind of format a little bit more like, you know,
7:26
kind of prefeed A cassette, a set menu.
7:29
OK. And what course?
7:30
Are you going to do? About 6 courses.
7:33
Which I think is the sweet spot. I was I've been thinking about
7:36
this a lot. How 11 Madison.
7:39
I think last time I checked they were doing 5 courses what they
7:41
do and then they they offer a different tasting menu.
7:44
I think they they have two different tiers, but I don't
7:48
know if you need to do like do you remember back in the days
7:51
like restaurants, like a 40 courses, yeah, 30 courses. 25
7:55
courses. And you don't remember half of
7:57
it. Yes, I, I don't think it needs
7:58
to be that much. And I know I, I, I've, I've said
8:01
this before, but I don't think I've ever been to a restaurant
8:03
and be like, that was only 8 courses.
8:05
Would have been better if it was 12 like that.
8:07
I mean, I don't remember the last four anyway.
8:09
Yes, and also think like a lot of it's too is is even is even a
8:14
bowel we don't want. Also, I think like for me, it's
8:17
very conducive to of the timing of the dining, right?
8:21
Like I mean, you don't want to like I think you're going to a
8:24
restaurant like that or a dining experience like that.
8:27
I keep going for the experience, right.
8:29
So you, you know, that maybe you're there for like for the
8:31
night or, or whatever the case might be.
8:34
But, but I've been to restaurants for like, I mean,
8:39
reservation was, I remember this restaurant that we, we, we went
8:42
the reservation was at 6:00 PM and we laughed at 10:00 PM And
8:46
I'm like, it was 7 courses like. Do you why you told me another
8:50
one was it and and you don't have to say the restaurant, but
8:52
you told me another one where you got out really, really late.
8:54
Was that you that told me? That yes, it was, it was kind of
8:57
like it was, was was this other place like, yeah, the same
8:59
thing, like the reservation was it 8:00 PM and we left the one
9:03
in the morning. Like, yeah, it's like I don't
9:05
want to be in the restaurant for five hours.
9:07
Like I don't want to be in the restaurant for like, you know,
9:09
like for for 4 1/2 hours. Like.
9:12
I think it's, it's different when like, right, Like it's a
9:15
different sort of in integrated experience, but it's like, I
9:19
think, I think it's, it's a, it's really so we're we're
9:24
really kind of paying attention to that.
9:26
I think we want by you to come and, and have a real nice
9:30
experience and the dining room is going to be really cool.
9:33
There's going to be like some set of snacks that arrive and
9:37
then it's going to be like 4, four more courses for savory
9:43
courses. Then like a little bread kind of
9:45
thing is going to be added in there.
9:47
And then and then basically the the, the little dessert dessert
9:51
kind of like little little bites.
9:53
And the bread program you had has always been good.
9:56
So I'm, I'm excited for. Yeah.
9:57
Yeah, but, but, but, and then we have like, you know, I think the
10:01
dining room is fun. Like we have who's going to have
10:03
a little martini cart, martini negroni, kind of like, you know,
10:07
like carte. Yeah, like you know, and and.
10:09
And like a cheese gerdon too, huh?
10:11
You're going to do like a cheese Gerdon.
10:13
Yeah, maybe. Who knows?
10:14
Who knows? I.
10:14
Love that. Yeah, yeah.
10:16
But but yeah, I mean, I think it's the experience we're we're
10:19
really want that experience to be like, you know, like a two
10:23
independent the size of your table, obviously.
10:25
But it's like, but it being like 2 1/2 hour experience Max, like,
10:29
you know, like maybe even less than that for like a chew top,
10:33
you know, like, and I think like it's, it's we want you to kind
10:36
of come in, enjoy, but also like go get a drink at the bar.
10:40
Go get a nightcap someplace else.
10:43
So right now you you're hiring team members like front of the.
10:45
House So, yeah, so we have a we have a general manager, we have,
10:49
you know, Justin is there as the as the, as the, as the, the head
10:52
chef And, and we, we start hiring like, you know, we're
10:56
hiring the, the, the the management team and start to
10:59
kind of going to probably start hiring the the hourly staff like
11:03
in the next couple weeks. Well, let let me help you out.
11:05
So for people listening, how can they, how can they apply?
11:09
Reach out to send you a resume to hiring at Nick and Juniors.
11:13
Yeah, I'll spell out like Nick is Nic.
11:17
You know, a lot of sometimes people don't, don't, don't,
11:19
don't get that right. But is is hiring at Nick and
11:23
Juniors. Yeah, OK, cool.
11:25
Yeah, I'm excited for your restaurant.
11:27
I think it's going to be. I mean, I love, I love Meridian
11:29
with with what you were doing there.
11:30
I mean, we've been talking a lot about.
11:32
So we've been talking a lot about food, you know, you and I,
11:36
and I feel like I'm having like my own crisis, you know,
11:42
internally when we went to went to Prelude, there's me and you
11:48
and Bill, who I had brought and Matt Peters and Justin.
11:51
Yeah, Justin was. That yeah, we were sitting
11:53
around having drinks and I remember I brought up at the
11:55
table like, because I feel like this was maybe like four months
11:59
ago, it feels like. No, it was like in general.
12:02
It was in in January. It feels like forever, but I
12:04
remember like my my wheels were turning.
12:06
I was just starting to to think about how food is kind of all
12:11
feeling the same. Like there's this
12:12
Instagramification of food and you and I were looking at the
12:15
exercise a little bit earlier. Like if I showed you a beautiful
12:18
tart with caviar or another little sphere with truffles is
12:22
like, it could be anywhere. Like whose restaurant is that?
12:24
It could be anywhere, any great restaurant.
12:27
And I understand why it's going that way.
12:30
And I'm not knocking restaurants that are doing that.
12:32
And I was joking with you and I said the last restaurant that I
12:34
was consulting at and I had to design A menu for them.
12:37
I put a little tart on it with foie gras like I do.
12:39
I do the same shit. So I'm not saying that that
12:42
they're wrong, but what I am saying is that I'm noticing that
12:44
food is kind of stuck in this. It all kind of starts looking
12:49
the same after a while. And how do you differentiate
12:51
yourself? It's not easy.
12:55
I don't have the answer to it, but I I recognize that it's a
12:57
problem and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
12:59
Yeah, I think, I think it's kind of like part of a little bit of
13:01
also, I mean, even if when you look back, right, like maybe I
13:05
don't know, maybe it's longer than 10 years ago.
13:07
Probably probably I would say like 15 plus years ago where
13:12
like what was the, the, the bubbles?
13:15
Yeah, phone. Yeah, right.
13:17
The, the, the, the, the, the, the froth sauces and, and, and
13:21
all that. And it's like, you know, you saw
13:22
that everywhere. Maybe Instagram was was a was a
13:26
thing 15 years ago, right? Like, I mean, it wasn't a huge
13:30
of a thing. So it's like maybe that that
13:32
that dissemination of like information wasn't so much like
13:36
visible that way. But you saw a lot of from from
13:40
from photos or from like articles or from like, you know,
13:44
magazines and then who got the write up of me.
13:47
So I think like now is just like transitioning, right?
13:50
That's like the next kind of thing.
13:53
And and I think the biggest, yeah, I don't fully have the
13:59
answer about that either. I think the one thing that sort
14:02
of sticks out, I think for me is not so much of, of because this
14:10
guy is not doing a tart like, you know, and this guy is doing
14:15
the same part. I mean it's, it's about like if
14:18
something's executed properly and is delicious right then is
14:22
delicious. Like, you know, like then it's
14:24
like, I feel like if you go somewhere and, and, and this
14:28
bite is a great bite and, and the service is delicious is
14:32
great and, and the, the, the, the ambiance, everything right,
14:36
like the, the entire thing kind of sings.
14:39
That makes sense. Then sure, like give me a tart,
14:43
you know what I mean? Yeah, so when I was I, I did
14:46
this thing a while back and this is when I was still chefing and
14:49
we were looking at Garrison. So Forbes Travel Guide, we
14:51
didn't have Michelin and Texas yet, but Forbes Travel Guide, I
14:54
want to say Garrison was one of the only restaurants in Texas
14:56
that got a four-star. We were trying to get A5.
14:59
We had missed it by like 3, three points or whatever.
15:02
So we, I, I created a spreadsheet really detailed and
15:06
if I had AI then it probably would have been better.
15:09
But it was like, what do all the five star restaurants have?
15:11
And I included three Michelin because most five star also have
15:14
two or three Michelin stars, right.
15:16
So it's like, what does every one star Michelin have in
15:18
common? What does every two star, what
15:20
does every three star have in common?
15:21
Was and I started to say, OK, you know, all the three stars
15:24
had a tasting menu. They all had you know, you know,
15:27
a supplement on their menu or caviar.
15:29
Like I started to notice like what are the common what kind of
15:32
China do they use? What's their reservation system
15:34
like? And I broke it all down and I
15:35
had this spreadsheet and then I went back with my team and I
15:39
said, OK, we checked these boxes.
15:42
We're missing these. We need to check these boxes.
15:44
So we need to add, we need to add a this or we need to add a
15:47
that, or we need to upgrade our. White glasses.
15:49
I'll be curious if that sheet is still pretty updated to this
15:52
day. It's probably is because I mean,
15:54
I, I it's probably only like 5 years old.
15:56
Yeah, right. So it's probably still
15:58
relatively accurate then. I could probably improve it now.
16:01
Yeah. But the reason I'm bringing that
16:03
up is because I think back to to me back then, I was doing it for
16:09
the for the game, the gamification of it.
16:12
I was playing the game. I don't know if I was doing it
16:15
because like I was so passionate about that.
16:18
I was doing it more like, I want to win.
16:20
Yes, right. You know what I mean?
16:21
Like I want this. And so this is how I this is how
16:24
I win and this is how other people are winning.
16:25
So I'm going to do more of that. And I, I've been eating out at a
16:30
lot of restaurants lately, so I'll share this with you.
16:32
I ate at this restaurant the other day and everything was
16:36
heavy, bitter, heavy acid. And it it didn't taste good and
16:41
it was creative And the food was like, I mean by I say creative
16:44
like with air quotes, but it was like, it was interesting.
16:47
It's like stuff that I'd never like.
16:49
I would have never thought to pair those flavors together,
16:51
probably for a reason. And it just.
16:54
But would you? I guess, I guess it wasn't,
16:56
yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, I think like if
16:59
it wasn't, if it wasn't bitter, like I think that sometimes,
17:05
would you go back? No, Well, I'd go back to support
17:09
them because they're, I don't want to say who, but you know, I
17:11
like them. But but it wasn't like my best
17:14
restaurant experience I've had. You know what I mean?
17:17
Like I. Think, I think it's kind of I
17:20
feel, I feel we all know, right? I think like in terms of the
17:24
creativity, I think that it's like we all people say like
17:27
there is nothing new under the the Yep, you know, nobody's
17:30
reinventing the wheel. I think the people that have
17:32
somewhat reinvented the wheel and being like we all know who
17:36
they are. We all know short list that
17:38
there's a short list of the, the people that kind of have, you
17:41
know, essentially added while in in quote, UN quote change some
17:47
of the dining scene and, and, and and kind of but they but
17:50
they're, they live in their own world, right?
17:52
They they kind of belong in this category.
17:56
And I think like a lot of the restaurants, I think like when
17:59
it comes of another, I think there's a level of creativity,
18:03
but is very, it needs to come in tangent with the level of
18:07
execution, right? Which then it needs to come in
18:10
tangent with the level of hospitality and the willingness
18:12
to make guests happy. And, and, and then with that
18:17
comes the, the part of the making money, right?
18:20
Which sometimes it is not really talk much about it because I
18:25
think like we all kind of talk about this is what the chef
18:29
wants to serve. This is his vision.
18:31
This is blah, blah, blah, all this.
18:33
But it's like, OK, what about the guests?
18:36
Is he, is he, is your restaurant busy?
18:39
Is he, are you, are you able to kind of sustain it?
18:42
Like at the end of the day is this is not like, this is not
18:46
like, don't go to work, just have fun.
18:49
Like, you know what I mean? Like I don't go to work to just
18:51
like play. Yeah.
18:53
Like, you know, like, and it's like, I think that is like this
18:55
level of like, I think that is the balance of it all.
18:58
And I think when it comes to to food, it is important.
19:02
I think like I try to kind of, I think like now I think maybe
19:05
even, right, being older and have seen things and have worked
19:10
for, for, for worked and, and being around like, you know,
19:15
amazing chefs and grain people, you start to kind of like be a
19:20
sort of like, OK, this is my style, right?
19:23
This is who I am. This is what I like to cook.
19:25
This is what I like to eat and this is what kind of places that
19:28
like, you know, impress me or does impress me.
19:31
And at the end of the day, what makes what makes me happy as a
19:35
guest, right? And then what makes me happy as
19:38
a chef. And I think like, you know,
19:40
combining that, I feel like I wanted to make food that it's
19:44
represents me, of course, right, Like that I think represents the
19:48
style that I believe the things that I believe.
19:51
But at the same time, it's important for me to kind of give
19:53
you food that tastes good. Well, I I could think of
19:57
something that you made. You've made, I I've had a lot of
20:01
your food, but I could think of certain things that I remember
20:04
like I, I could not, no offense, but I probably forgot like 80%
20:07
of the things you serve me, but I remember most people.
20:09
The cheese on the stick. Yeah.
20:11
Amazing. The hot sauce that you gave me
20:13
that was in a bottle. Yeah.
20:15
Amazing. The last time that you made
20:17
this, the the pasta, the Fiore de Carr trophy with the truffles
20:21
on top. Amazing.
20:24
And it's like they weren't the most complicated dishes.
20:28
No, but they were the most memorable.
20:30
Like that, that hot sauce that you made, the Brazilian hot
20:32
sauce that you gave me a bottle years ago.
20:34
Yeah. Like, it's still like, I
20:35
remember I was. It was so good.
20:37
And I think a lot of times as chefs we forget one of the most
20:43
important things is like. Is it good?
20:45
Yes. Like it does it taste good?
20:47
It does it taste good exactly. And, and it's like, and I think
20:49
like it's, it's I think I felt like was one.
20:55
It's funny. I think the first time that I I
20:57
think was a probably I think the first time that I ever like
21:01
really cooked. Like there wasn't a vet that I
21:04
really liked that Thomas Keller sat down in my dining room and
21:09
just order food and, and I think like, and I think like, you
21:13
know, he is right. I mean, arguably the best
21:17
American chef that. Ever.
21:19
I, I think, I think anyone. Is the man, he's the goat, you
21:22
know? Yeah.
21:23
And it's like so. But he at the same time he just
21:28
wants things that are very that just tastes good and this
21:32
properly cooked, right, Right. So it's like not.
21:35
Looking for someone to try and impress him.
21:36
No, yeah, but that is what impresses him, right?
21:39
What impresses him is just like, and I remember to this day,
21:42
like, he ordered a chicken and he ordered a soup and he ordered
21:46
chicken. And that's pretty much what
21:48
what? What was his meal?
21:49
Yeah, Right. And then at the end of the day,
21:51
he just told me that everything was perfectly cooked.
21:53
Yeah. That's all I care about.
21:54
Yeah. When I would interview people,
21:56
it's kind of the same thing. Like I would tell them,
21:58
especially for a cooking interview, a lot of times they
22:01
try and impress, impress me with like crazy cooking techniques
22:04
and a lot of bullshit on the plate.
22:05
And I was like, I just want it to taste good, man.
22:07
That's it. Like, you know, no offense to
22:10
the person that's interviewing, but you're 22 years old, you're
22:14
applying for a sous chef job. You're probably not going to
22:17
show me anything I haven't seen before, just.
22:19
But you know what would impress me is if you cooked it right?
22:21
Yes, that would impress me more than all the.
22:23
All the mix lovely. Yeah, yeah.
22:25
And I think that I think sometimes like, yeah, we, we, we
22:27
forget about that. And I think that's the most,
22:30
most of the people I think want that.
22:34
They want like they don't mind. I think like I think it's either
22:38
paying a certain amount of money, you know, if the if the
22:42
value is there, right, If you're giving them the value and the
22:45
value can come in so many different ways.
22:49
Yeah, right. The value can come from again,
22:51
from how you made them feel, how the restaurant is set up, how
22:56
the experience, how's the ambiance, how the food is
22:58
prepared, the quality of the food, the, the, the execution of
23:02
everything. Right.
23:03
But it's like, but I think like if you just go and you kind of
23:06
like, OK, I pay this. I can tell you like years ago,
23:10
how you know, we, we went to, to, to, to a meal and, and it
23:17
was a three mission at the time. I won't say the name.
23:21
It was a three mission star restaurant and and there was
23:27
this dish. There was like, it's kind of
23:30
like this piece of fish that it came glazed with something and
23:36
it had this like unripe Peach next to it that you're supposed
23:42
to sort of. Unripe.
23:44
Yeah, that you're supposed they're supposed to kind of like
23:46
squeeze the. The bitter Peach juice, it's
23:51
terrible. Squeeze this Peach juice onto
23:55
the fish and. And then.
23:57
And then I'm like, why? And then it's like, and then the
24:01
fish wasn't properly cooked. Yeah.
24:04
So I was like, this is AI mean somebody is like in in in, in
24:09
sometimes, I guess right in the chef's head, right, because they
24:12
think like, man, this is going to be so unique, so different,
24:15
so out there. So you like, you know, special
24:19
and and and nobody's doing that. And then it's like, and then you
24:23
have in your head, but then it's not, it's not good.
24:27
Yeah, right. You know, like I wish you just
24:29
gave me a piece of fish with brown butter sauce on it.
24:31
It would be fucking delicious. When?
24:33
When was the last time you ate something not your own food, but
24:35
if you could give credit to someone, what was the last
24:37
amazing dish or meal that you had?
24:40
Well, I mean, I it's not because we're we're actually doing a
24:44
dinner, we're actually doing a dinner, a collab dinner at Oreo
24:48
2 Michelin star, yeah, two Michelin star in Chicago and and
24:56
I had two meals there at this point.
24:59
And I want to say that it was an amazing experience.
25:05
I think it was kind of like, you know, it was really is really
25:09
from. And it's funny because talking
25:11
to Noah, the chef and I think like, you know, his amazing,
25:15
amazing chef, amazing person. Like, I mean, we kind of
25:18
connected very quickly. And, and, and I think it was, it
25:25
was interesting. I kind of told him like man,
25:26
like, yeah, the food is looks so good.
25:28
And, and, and, and, and this this was even before I ate
25:31
there. And he kind of said like, yeah,
25:33
we just, I mean, same philosophy.
25:35
I think I have. I would just try to kind of, you
25:37
know, get some really nice ingredients and I'll cook them
25:43
like, you know, just make food that tastes good.
25:45
Yeah, and, and, and and use things that sort of goes well
25:52
together, you know, like, and I think like, but it sounds so
25:55
much simplified that way. It sounds like, OK, what is what
26:00
is that wow factor? Or what's the special thing?
26:02
I think sometimes like media and people like kind of have even
26:07
like regular guests, like things like how what's the wow factor?
26:10
Meanwhile, the wow factor is that this is perfectly cooked.
26:13
The pro wow factors. This is.
26:16
Yeah, And I think like, you know, I think that that was that
26:19
was a it was a it was amazing that she was like so that
26:23
there's so many courses in that meal.
26:25
There was like very well executed delicious.
26:29
I think it was like it was back in November.
26:32
I think it was this course. And I and I and, and I may not
26:36
kind of like remember all the components, but it was this
26:41
black cod dish that had a matsutaki kind of like, you
26:45
know, broth to it. He had like so much mummy and,
26:51
and, and body, but it's still like light and balance And the
26:55
fish was perfectly cooked and it was like, it was like delicious.
26:58
It was like, Oh my God, like you took a bite and you're like,
27:01
this is so good, right? This makes me happy.
27:05
Like, you know, like, and I think that was that was some of
27:09
the best, some of the some of the best dishes I had.
27:11
Like, you know, like in, in, in, in the recent, like, you know,
27:14
like couple of months and, and, and, but when you look at it,
27:18
it's so simple, right? Like it's so, but there's so
27:21
much technique that goes into that.
27:22
There's so much needs to make and pack, so much flavor.
27:26
In there so so let me ask you this.
27:28
First of all, I'll say that I, my recent memory is a mix.
27:32
I, I remember two things. I remember bad meals and I
27:35
remember good meals, but there's a lot of that I don't remember
27:38
in between. Like I remember like, Oh, that
27:39
was really good. And, and unfortunately I
27:40
remember that was really bad. And a lot of the bad meals that
27:43
I've had or bad dishes, I wouldn't say they were bad
27:46
meals, but I've had some bad dishes.
27:48
I just feel like they were just trying too hard and they just
27:50
like taste your food. Like you would know that that's
27:52
way too bitter. That's way too like that.
27:54
That is just too fermented, right?
27:58
The whole dish tastes like ferment.
27:59
I, I don't, I don't want to taste that.
28:00
But what I was going to ask you, because you touched on
28:04
creativity and you touched on technique.
28:07
What impresses you more, high level technique or creativity?
28:15
I think tasty food impressed me more.
28:19
Yeah, I think like, I think like creativity technique impresses
28:25
me more because it shows me that you had the technique to cook
28:30
something perfectly. Yeah, right.
28:33
And, and that can be literally a simple roast chicken.
28:36
It can be a simple piece of fish that it was nicely cooked and
28:40
well seasoned. And I think that is technique,
28:43
right. Why?
28:44
Like it's not so much about the creativity because you, you, you
28:50
took this vinegar and you reduced it and you did this and
28:55
you clarify and you put something else in it and you
28:58
kind of like ferment something else and you put like, you know
29:00
what I mean? Like 3 days making something
29:02
taste like. That and you exactly, yes.
29:05
And you took like, you know, this, this thing and you kind of
29:07
like now you, you add something to it and you kind of like
29:12
caramelize and now you're making like a caramel of something that
29:16
shouldn't be a caramel in the 1st place.
29:18
Right, right. And what's wrong with just a
29:20
caramel? You know what I mean?
29:22
Like, and I think so, so I don't know, maybe that's just a little
29:25
bit of my old school in, in, in, in me.
29:29
I appreciate it and I, I eat it and I get it.
29:33
And I think, I think I would think that probably like, you
29:36
know, if it's executed well and tastes good, like, oh man, this
29:39
is awesome. This is my genius.
29:41
Like great, like, but, but I think in the, in the scheme of
29:46
like just restaurants and the scheme of, of just feeling like
29:51
what is most important. And I think when I say most
29:54
important in terms of of and like not just as a chef, but as
30:00
a guest perspective, I think it's more important for you to
30:04
have the technique to execute than to just being creative.
30:10
Because being creative, there is a lot of creative people, you
30:14
know, there's a lot of people just throw stuff together.
30:17
Yeah. But I think like to have the
30:19
technique to be able to kind of cook something and make
30:23
delicious food. Rice.
30:25
We all we all heard simple food is very hard to make.
30:29
Yeah, yeah, it really is. I was I was I was at this, this
30:36
this restaurant and they cooked this just perfect food.
30:43
And it wasn't complicated, but it was just everything was
30:45
seasoned everything and it wasn't it was like olive oil,
30:49
like just use the good quality olive oil and it doesn't need
30:53
use the good quality vinegar. A lot of a lot of the stuff use
30:56
the perfect in season tomatoes or whatever the case may be.
31:00
And I and I and I think about like a lot of chefs know that
31:07
this is delicious. Like you could have a perfect
31:10
ice cream, maybe it's a strawberry ice cream or, you
31:12
know, beautiful vanilla bean ice cream with just perfect farm in
31:17
season strawberries at peak ripeness.
31:20
And it's amazing, but no one really has the balls to serve
31:23
it. You know what I mean?
31:24
Like we all know it's good. And we all would sit there with
31:27
chefs and be like, that's really good.
31:28
You know, thinking back to the last story that that you told
31:30
when you were at, you know, at one of the mentor events and you
31:34
had cooked some steak and everyone's standing around
31:36
eating it. It's amazing, right?
31:39
I think back to something as simple as like a good ice cream
31:41
with strawberries or, you know, a perfectly cooked piece of meat
31:45
with a beautiful sauce. It's like, yeah, but if there's
31:48
no tricks, would you put it on your menu?
31:51
You know what I mean? Well, although it's good but.
31:53
Yeah, I think that's kind of the thing I feel like it it all for
31:57
for Nick and Junior is like it it's a mixture, right?
32:00
Because we're doing we have the bar area that is on a cart that
32:04
it's going to be like we're going to have a an array of like
32:06
snacks because we want you to come in and and kind of almost
32:10
like sushi style where there is like comes by the two pieces.
32:13
Sure. So there's like a section of the
32:15
menu that is going to be like 8 bites or something like that
32:18
that you can order. That is all comes by by the twos
32:21
and and it's just a fun way of eating right.
32:24
Like, I mean just kind of quick little bites that is your
32:29
traditional sort of like, you know, courses.
32:31
But then I think that is like when it comes to the dining
32:33
room, I think that is like even we're talking about like we kind
32:38
of came into my head like, you know, one of the last, the last
32:41
thing that we're we're we want to serve the gas is this little
32:44
bite of of an ice cream cone. And, and I think because right,
32:51
because I think like it evokes some childhood, right?
32:56
Members evokes like, you know, some playfulness to that.
33:00
And, and, and and the, the, the flavors, right?
33:03
Is, is essentially flavors that is dear to me is like, you know,
33:06
it's kind of a a mixture. We have something in Brazil that
33:09
called Romeo and Juliet, which is basically a guayabata, which
33:14
is like a guava paste serve with cheese.
33:18
Yeah, you know, so it's kind of like essentially if you take a
33:22
slice of guayabata and a slice of cheese, that's the Romeo and
33:25
Juliet. Okay, bite.
33:27
So we're doing a Romeo and Juliet ice cream cone, which it
33:31
has this guayabata jam and it's guys ice cream that is very
33:35
similar to like a Florida latte. Yeah, ice cream like, you know,
33:39
like very like no Milky and and, and you know, some vanilla
33:46
flavor in there, but it's kind of a very like that Milky kind
33:48
of cheesy, sort of like, you know, ice cream and but at the
33:54
end for the guests, the way I see is like you're still eating,
33:57
right. Mm hmm.
33:59
A vanilla ice cream with something, a jam, yeah.
34:03
But it's like what has a story behind it has kind of like a
34:08
technique behind it, but that is like an approachability.
34:11
Yeah, to that. And I think like sometimes I
34:14
feel it's what's important in terms of like creating.
34:19
I think we talked about this creativity against, against this
34:24
or what kind of discerns, right? Like what every nowadays where
34:28
everything kind of sort of looks the same for most part is that I
34:33
think it is important. I think like I don't mind.
34:36
Like, I mean, I can eat a tart at this restaurant.
34:39
I eat another tart at this restaurant.
34:41
And if they're both delicious, they're both delicious, right?
34:44
I think you are manipulating and you're presenting in your own
34:47
way. And I think, like the same way
34:49
that I feel me serving a little soft serve kind of like, you
34:54
know, a little cone to you, Like it's not going to be the first
34:57
time you've ever had it. It's not going to be the last
34:59
time you've ever had it. It's just going to be the way
35:01
the, like, I like to serve it to you.
35:03
It has a story. I think it's important that we
35:06
still kind of do things that matter as chefs to us.
35:11
Yeah. And then but it's still keep in
35:13
mind like you know what I mean, like what the the guests would
35:16
would appreciate and how the guests will kind of.
35:19
You're talking about this soft serve cone, which sounds sounds
35:21
good, I'm hungry, but I'm not seeing anyone do that right now.
35:25
And that's kind of the point. It's like, yes, it's not the
35:27
first time I've had it and and it's probably not the last time
35:30
I've had it, but it feels refreshing right now because I'm
35:34
not. And maybe I'm just not paying
35:36
attention, but I'm not seeing little soft serve ice cream
35:38
cones on tasting menus. Yeah.
35:41
And I feel like, and, and this is kind of the point that I'm
35:43
trying to make is I understand that it's really hard.
35:46
Make sure you cut that so people don't don't take the idea.
35:52
I'm, I'm, it's really hard to be original because everything's
35:56
been done. So you're, you're either looking
35:58
backward or, you know, you're looking at what's current, but
36:00
everything's been done realistically.
36:04
So I, I get that part, but everything feels the same.
36:07
But that doesn't feel the same right now.
36:08
Like to me, I would be like, fuck, that's cool.
36:11
Like I haven't seen an ice cream cone in a while.
36:14
Like with ice cream. Yeah, yeah, You know what I
36:16
mean? Like I've seen an ice cream cone
36:17
with everything else but ice cream.
36:19
Cone with fish, right? Yeah, like how do we go back to
36:22
serving ice cream with ice cream cone?
36:25
Like that would feel new. I like.
36:27
Oh. It's true.
36:28
It's true. No, yeah.
36:29
And I think like, I feel like that is that is a thing
36:32
sometimes. I, I mean with, with looking, I
36:37
think that is the level of originality.
36:39
The level of originality comes from your, I think from your own
36:44
experiences. And I think if you really pay
36:47
attention, I think to to how the guests would interact rather
36:54
than so much how you think that you have to serve this way,
36:58
because that's what everybody to your point, right?
37:02
To the Forbes thing, like you're doing it because you're playing
37:05
the game, right? Because you are kind of like,
37:08
you know, you need to this is the the things you in that you
37:11
have to sort of cross off, right?
37:13
And, and I think if you and don't get me wrong, we all kind
37:17
of in some ways kind of do that and pay attention to that and
37:21
look at that and, and try to kind of emulate and try to kind
37:25
of like, you know, cross off the list.
37:27
Like are we doing these things? You know, but but I think it's
37:31
important to also make sure that you are you are kind of like
37:38
leave some room for, for, for to use this experiences to use the
37:45
things that kind of like, you know, like, I think like it
37:47
makes you smile. Yeah, it makes you kind of like,
37:50
you know, like, and I think like that's how we'll see.
37:53
I mean, that's kind of how we are.
37:54
We're we're not in our in our mind.
37:56
Like I think like you will make people kind of like who?
37:59
Here's a little mini ice cream cone.
38:02
Like that's cute. Yeah.
38:04
You know. Yeah, I, I, I want food to be
38:06
delicious. I want it to be technical.
38:08
I want it to be, I want to enjoy my time with great hospitality.
38:12
I don't want them to be over intrusive.
38:14
And I feel like because I go to a lot of restaurants, I feel
38:18
like somehow it just feels chaotic and similar across
38:23
across the country, you know, same, same experience I'm
38:25
getting in LA is the same one I'm getting and, and you know,
38:29
across, yeah, across everywhere. But when I find something new,
38:32
it's like it really grabs my attention because it feels
38:35
different. But with all that being said,
38:37
and for anyone that's listening, saying, oh, you know, I'm
38:39
thinking I have all the ideas and we got to stay in business,
38:42
That's the other part is I get it.
38:44
Like, I understand that you, you, you are taking a risk if
38:47
you serve strawberries and vanilla ice cream because people
38:50
might say, OK, they lost it. They're not, you know, they,
38:53
they don't get it anymore because there is a gamification
38:56
of it and everyone's playing the game.
38:58
But you can still serve the ice cream, strawberries and ice
39:01
cream and still be delicious, right?
39:04
And still be kind of something that at the end of the day, it
39:09
is, it is just again, executed well.
39:13
It relates to people if you people makes makes.
39:16
And again, I think that is the the, the thin line that nothings
39:20
just about the food is about how the place makes you feel.
39:25
Because then if that guest knows that man, I love the the ice
39:30
cream and strawberries and I know that I can always come back
39:33
there and have that. Yeah, that might also be a win.
39:38
I'm doing the dinner in Austin. Should I should probably know
39:43
the date. I think it's May 16th.
39:44
So if anyone's listening, I'll, I'll put it on the thing.
39:47
It'll, it'll be correct. But with, with Sarah heard from
39:50
foreign and domestic. So we used to work together.
39:52
So it's like a the chefs that raised us dinner.
39:56
So it's not too many courses. I think it's about 4-4 courses
39:59
or so. And I'm taking a risk.
40:01
I haven't. I haven't put my menu together,
40:03
but I know in my head, because this has been keeping me up for
40:07
months, I'm not going to cook. What people expect me to cook,
40:12
I'm going to. I might fucking flop, by the
40:14
way. Like, I'm sure you will.
40:16
If Sarah's listening, she'd be like, no, fuck, don't do nothing
40:18
stupid. Yeah, but.
40:19
But I'm thinking like, when was the last time you just saw,
40:23
like, beautiful artichokes on a plane?
40:25
That's it. Like just perfectly cooked, like
40:27
a perfectly cooked artichokes. Or when was the last time you
40:31
just had like, I think echibari does a really good job.
40:34
Like very, very, very simple. Like some shrimp on a plate.
40:38
I'm going to do my best to curb you.
40:40
Also kind of like, I think sometimes people look at that.
40:42
I think the one thing with that is that they also get the
40:46
product. The product speaks for itself,
40:48
right? So I think kind of like, you
40:51
know, it's that that, that that sort of thin line.
40:53
And it's funny because I have a friend that ate there and he
40:57
said it was, it was amazing. Yeah.
40:59
But it was really like, you could tell that that is, I mean,
41:03
you, it's a whole experience. Why?
41:05
Like it's no excursion. Like you have to go like travel
41:08
to go to this place. So all that already.
41:10
Cooking everything. Already adds right to the to the
41:14
to the experience, you know at that point like you know only
41:17
it's not about yeah, I I think it's it looks amazing.
41:22
It looks so simple. It looks so like pristine, yes
41:25
and but, but I see your point. I think that that is you don't
41:30
see that very much. No, I'm, I'm going to try and
41:32
make something that it's either going to be like, fuck, Chef
41:37
Andre is a genius, he's back, or what the fuck was he thinking?
41:41
Why would you? Why would you just give me
41:43
strawberries and vanilla ice cream?
41:45
It's going to be one or the other.
41:46
I don't know. Well, it's funny because that is
41:49
one of the things that we want to kind of like, you know, do at
41:52
the restaurant too. And again, it's funny, right?
41:54
Because I think it's funny that you think like that.
41:57
And I think it's also comes, again, comes from a mindset of
42:00
someone that has been in the business for a long time.
42:03
Yeah. That have seen it, have done it,
42:05
have kind of like, you know, and now like, you want to cook
42:09
things that you want to eat, right, Right.
42:12
And you want to eat a beautiful thing of artichokes that would
42:16
make you happy. Yeah, Right.
42:18
Yes. And it's like.
42:19
Especially the artichokes are from the farm and they're.
42:22
Perfectly cooked, perfectly seasoned.
42:24
Why not? You know, and I think it's kind
42:26
of like, I think it's, it's, it's the, it's the balance of it
42:30
all. Because even at at Nick and
42:31
dreamers, like the little bar where we have this little raw
42:35
bar and it's not going to be like a a oyster bar.
42:38
It's more of like, you know, kind of like a open, little open
42:41
kitchen that we're just going to have some stuff there and it's
42:44
going to be like a lot of these little snacks.
42:46
But we're like, man, if we can get our hands in a beautiful
42:50
strawberry that is like no perfect.
42:54
Why not just kind of take a strawberry like lightly seasoned
42:58
with maybe some like a little Saba or maybe a little age
43:01
balsamic or maybe a little like white balsamic or maybe kind of
43:04
like, you know, like a little kind of herbs and that's it.
43:09
That's all you get. Or maybe a little like no nice
43:11
little cream. And then you can kind of like,
43:14
you know, like, and that's how you got and cool.
43:16
Like it's only available for two weeks.
43:19
And because that's the the the season.
43:21
Yeah. And then and then we want to
43:24
kind of do that kind of stuff the same way they like, you
43:27
know, it's the same mindset. Because I think that that is is
43:31
a beauty in that right? And it is also an
43:33
approachability in that things also, if I can give you for
43:37
because my job was at that point to find the perfect ingredient
43:45
and treat it right in a, in a, in a, in a perfect way by not
43:50
fucking it up. And then this kind of like it.
43:53
I don't like give it to you and it's not something you going to
43:56
have from the strawberries from the store.
43:59
Right, So the other day at home, I went to the farmers market and
44:02
I had some beautiful basil and had some very beautiful zucchini
44:07
and I was like, what am I going to do with this?
44:08
I didn't feel like cooking. I was like, what am I going to
44:10
do? So I was like, I'm just going to
44:11
make soup. So I hardly ever make soup, but
44:13
I was like, I'm just going to make soup.
44:14
But I did it the old fashioned way.
44:15
Like I sweated it and like I had good cream, you know, and I
44:20
blended in, I put the basil in there and I tasted I was like,
44:24
fuck, I forgot how good soup is. It was like maybe three or four
44:27
ingredients and I was like, this is the the best thing I've had
44:32
in quite some time. And it's like just soup.
44:34
It's just zucchini soup. And I forgot like zucchini and
44:36
basil. How, you know, I drizzled a
44:38
little good olive oil that I picked up from Italy in on it.
44:41
And it's like, sometimes I think as chefs, it is really hard.
44:46
And, you know, Marco pure white had his, you know, existential
44:49
crisis when he gave back his Michelin stars and then, you
44:51
know, put on the chef hat now with the I don't know what he's
44:54
what he's doing with nor Swiss, but but he's he's he he like,
44:59
OK, I just want to make delicious food.
45:02
And I think the position that I'm in, the only risk I have by
45:09
potentially because I don't have a restaurant.
45:11
I just have my podcast. So it's like I'm not too worried
45:13
if if I go to someone's pop up and I serve artichokes because
45:18
like it's not going to, I mean, I might, I might not get invited
45:20
back, right? That's fine.
45:24
But I'm thinking about it and, and I'm not saying I have the
45:26
answers. I don't have the answers, but I
45:29
am saying that I recognize that I want to do something different
45:33
and I and, and it's different for me because I'm not chasing
45:36
whatever I make. I probably won't post on
45:38
Instagram. I'm I'm not going to get him an
45:40
award for it because I'm not like I'm just cooking because I
45:43
want to cook. That's it.
45:45
So it's it's. A.
45:46
It's. A liberating experience, like
45:48
when you're when you're just cooking for people that you care
45:51
about and you just want to make something that they're going to
45:53
and you're just cooking. It's going to come out much
45:55
different than it's like, well, is Eater going to write about it
45:58
is, you know, is it going to pop pop up on a list or the other?
46:02
Is it going to look good on Instagram?
46:03
Like, I get it, that's the game. But what happens when you're not
46:06
playing the game? What does food look like?
46:09
Yeah, I think it's OK. I'm still at the game.
46:12
You're in the game, right? In the game.
46:14
Don't take my advice. I'm like, yeah, I'm about to
46:15
open restaurants. It's like I am in the game.
46:17
But it's like, but I think, I think it's still, I think it
46:21
comes from, at the end of the day, I think it still comes from
46:23
this mindset of, of being assertive, being like knowing
46:30
who you are, knowing what you like and also understand what
46:32
the guests kind of like. I think that is, I think
46:35
sometimes we people build restaurants thinking that like
46:38
these people need to come here and used to think that is like,
46:42
this is the best thing I've ever had.
46:45
And this is like a you know, and that's it.
46:48
And I'm like, it doesn't have to be that, you know what I mean?
46:51
Like I think if you the the, the, the beauty, the the hardest
46:55
thing is consistency. I think if you if you I think we
47:00
maybe have talked about this like places like Hillstone,
47:03
right? Yeah.
47:04
So like that is. It's funny you bring that up.
47:08
That is like, you know, like, I mean, there's so many
47:11
restaurants, so many chefs and operators and and investors and
47:17
that like looks up to and like things are like, man, like,
47:20
yeah, I wish I was. I wish I was that yeah.
47:23
I wish I was this consistent, right?
47:25
I wish I was this profitable, right?
47:27
And, and, and and and you do, you know the Shafa Hills?
47:34
No. No, no one does.
47:36
Exactly like, you know, no offense, no, no, there's you
47:39
know, you know, like and as I can.
47:41
And so it's not I think it's about right.
47:45
And I think like that's what I'm saying, like the people go in
47:47
and and over and over again to those restaurants and I think
47:51
that it's kind of like a beauty too.
47:54
So as chefs like it, kind of how do you create this balance?
47:58
Right? I think, like I know I've talked
48:01
a lot about Nick and juniors, but I'm, I'm really excited for
48:04
it because I think he he encompassed naturally sort of
48:07
encompassed like this ability for for us to, to, to create a
48:13
place where like Nick and I can can right, We love, right?
48:19
We love. I mean, we, we go out to go to
48:21
restaurants together. We go to dinner together.
48:23
You want sometimes, like you don't want to just sit and enjoy
48:27
a tasting menu every time you go out, right?
48:29
You want to sometimes sit down, order some snacks, order
48:32
cocktail, like sit, enjoy or about it's an hour, hour and a
48:37
half experience. You off you go, you know, and
48:40
you catch up with with a friend and, and and you're out of
48:43
there. Or you can come back the
48:46
following week and go to the dining room and have this more
48:52
like an own like 2 hour plus experience, you know, like and
48:56
kind of enjoy and have like, you know, so I think like what I
48:59
love about is because it allows us to do a little bit of both
49:04
and allow us to kind of like, you know, create this, this,
49:07
this, this restaurant that can act as your as half of the
49:13
restaurant, sort of can be your little daytime neighborhood
49:19
everyday kind of place, but also you have part of the restaurant
49:23
that is more of your special occasion kind of place.
49:28
I'm excited for you and like, I could not be happier for you
49:30
that this is coming together, especially in Chicago, which I
49:33
think is a great Food City and I think you're going to do great.
49:35
I'm happy for you. I'm happy for Nick.
49:37
I'm happy for Justin. Thank you.
49:39
Yeah. It gives me a reason to go.
49:40
Go off the shore. Oh yeah, can't wait.
49:42
Yeah. No, I do have some other
49:45
questions for you. OK.
49:46
These are random. I love it.
49:49
Do you mix your salt and pepper? Where do you stand on mixing
49:55
your salt and pepper on the line, chef?
49:56
I don't I don't mix the salt and pepper.
50:00
It's highly contested sometimes. I know, I know, I know.
50:03
Sometimes people think that like that is, that is like I'm just
50:06
being, this is sufficient. I'm like, is he?
50:09
I don't know. Like, I mean, it, it just, I
50:12
don't know. I just my brain.
50:14
I, I, I, I have not been trained that way.
50:16
I have not kind of like, you know, working places that, that,
50:19
that, that done that. I've been in places that have
50:21
done that right. I've worked with people that
50:24
that that try to do that and and and I have told them that's not
50:29
the way to do. Do you what?
50:31
What salt do you use? Use diamond crystal more.
50:33
Diamond crystal. Diamond crystal only.
50:35
Only, only salt allowed in the kitchen.
50:37
What What about pepper? Do you peppermill?
50:40
Do you pre grind? I think it depends.
50:42
I feel like if you were, I would think we Peppermill finishing
50:47
anything seasoned Peppermill as much as possible, depending on
50:52
the kind of situation, right? Like, I mean, if you were in the
50:54
in the in the in the station that you might, you might cooks
50:59
so much proteins and it's like, you know, that you kind of need
51:03
like I don't mind if you if you if you pre grind your your
51:08
pepper peppercorns. You did something once where you
51:13
can't feed the peppercorns, which I thought was cool.
51:15
Yeah, it was kind of like something we kind of do for like
51:18
some, some, some steaks and some like, you know, like pork and
51:21
things like that where like we took all the, the the
51:23
peppercorns and slow cooked them and then kind of crushed them.
51:29
So it kind of has this like re aromatic.
51:33
It was really good, you know. When you when you set up your
51:36
finishing station, do you have lemons or do you have vinegar or
51:39
you have good olive oil? Like what?
51:40
What's your setup your go to set up on your station when you're
51:43
when you're finishing food at the past?
51:45
Good olive oil? What?
51:46
Do you use? Do you have a specific brand?
51:49
Not a specific brand. I think like I think it depends
51:51
on like I think like I like. I like the oil Verde a lot.
51:57
I like some of the, the, the, the Arbucina aberquina, yeah,
52:01
Aberquina olive oil, some of the pink troll.
52:06
So it's like, I think I like the like the pens, right.
52:08
I think I like the grassy stuff. I like the, the, the agromato
52:12
stuff. And so it, it depends what kind
52:15
of like the dish. I think like normally there's at
52:17
least like two different kinds of olive oil.
52:21
Yeah, and Lemon. Lemon fresh.
52:26
Lemon, fresh lemon, yeah, some lemon, some lemon cheeks or some
52:30
like, you know, like me and and every station pretty much in the
52:33
in my in my kitchens have like maybe a fresh squeeze lemon
52:37
juice kind of like, you know, like around.
52:39
Do you have someone like a call me pre squeeze it or something?
52:42
Yeah, or the bar or the bar team, you know, like, you know,
52:45
like kind of kind of kind of does all the, the, the citrus
52:47
for the, for the restaurant for the day, Yeah.
52:50
Finishing vinegars or no? Sometimes not as not as much.
52:55
It kind of depends. I think that is like there is
52:57
some finishing vinegars that I really thought a little more
53:01
fruitier vinegars that I like to use that is kind of this, this
53:07
apple vinegar that is almost kind of like an apple balsamic
53:10
that is kind of like, you know, is is is delicious.
53:16
What about finishing salt? Flora Cell and Maldon, yeah, I
53:21
like think those. I think I like Maldon a lot.
53:23
I think like probably the one that I could use the most, but I
53:30
would say probably Maldon. Where, Where do you stand?
53:33
Where do you stand today in 2025?
53:35
Not not what we were doing before, but 2025.
53:38
Where do you stand on microgreens and flowers and
53:41
herbs? Let me say I don't like
53:48
microgreens. I like petite greens.
53:53
Like, OK, what do you? Mean I mean like.
53:59
That's a little bit bigger. I little bit, I mean, I like
54:03
kind of like, I do think that's in it doesn't necessarily I
54:06
think it's funny because I think just the same way that we're
54:08
talking about the simplicity in food, Yeah, I think there is
54:12
also this kind of like, but also that is a little bit of the
54:16
playing the game. Yeah, right.
54:17
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
54:18
So I think that is that is it's understanding, I think the
54:22
editing of it. I think there are certain dishes
54:25
that require that. There are certain dishes that
54:28
don't. I think there are certain things
54:30
that kind of like it only adds to the playing the game because
54:34
that's kind of like, you know what maybe aesthetically, what
54:37
maybe like, you know, it should look like, or but also adds, you
54:43
know, that herbationist to certain dish.
54:47
And I think the petite kind of green, it's more of because it
54:51
is just the smaller rice. It's kind of like I think we the
54:55
the, the, the, the, the not the full grown, not like, you know,
54:58
like what kind of maybe something is too large and, and,
55:02
and and things like that, which sometimes the very large herb or
55:06
garnish stuff applies to something else.
55:09
You know, it's not that that that is the problem either.
55:12
I mean, it's great. So I think like I just don't
55:14
necessarily I think that micro greens, I think is just not
55:17
necessarily like you don't get much of the flavor.
55:20
No, And I think then why put it the?
55:22
Big intensity mix in a clam shell.
55:24
Yeah, I remember what, you know, back back in the day when we
55:27
were all like handful of intensity mix and everything.
55:30
I remember I had a chef call me. I was like, it doesn't need to
55:32
look like a damn Christmas tree, all right, chef.
55:35
Fair enough. And I think that's like the
55:36
thing I feel like that's why maybe I don't love it so much
55:39
because I think that the, the the petite stuff allows me to
55:42
kind of just garnish certain things with belongs, but also
55:45
what belongs and also what adds to the dish, you know, because
55:50
if it's not adding to the dish, then don't put it on.
55:52
What's an underrated ingredient that you like that you'd like to
55:56
sneak in? Underrated ingredient like.
56:00
Ingredient or flavor? One ingredient that I feel like
56:03
I've been cooking that kind of I think is something that is a
56:08
little unique, but again, it speaks to me and my style.
56:14
It's kind of like, but is this ingredient called tukupi, which
56:21
is a fermented yuka juice, OK. And it is very indigenous to
56:28
Brazil. It's kind of a something where,
56:31
you know, cassava, like manioc, right?
56:34
Like it's a, it's a, it's probably the most important
56:37
ingredient in, in, in, in, in Brazilian kind of like native
56:42
cooking. And from, from slavery and the,
56:46
the, the native Brazilians to slavery to African to all that.
56:53
And so there was a full utilization of the product of
56:57
the actual root. So one of the utilizations of it
57:00
is kind of fermenting it. And then you kind of make soups
57:04
out of it. Or that it's kind of all these
57:05
dishes that comes from either the fermented flour that you can
57:09
make cakes and, and, and, and, and all these things.
57:11
But this juice is, is something that is unique because I don't
57:16
and I'm not the kind of chef that like does too much
57:20
fermentation too much kind of like, you know, that kind of
57:22
sourness. But I think like balance with
57:26
certain things. I think it adds like if you're,
57:30
if you're using to like in the broth or you using like along
57:35
with a lot of automatics or other things or using as a, as a
57:39
butter sauce or using for like, you know, like some kind of, it
57:43
adds some kind of complexity to it that I think is a little bit
57:49
different. So we like to play with it.
57:51
So I think that would be like one kind of interesting
57:54
ingredient that like we have sort of like, you know, hide it
57:58
in, in, in certain things. Last question, what's one thing
58:03
that when you see a cook do it in the kitchen that you have to
58:05
stop? Don't do that.
58:08
What's that one thing that makes you stop and immediately correct
58:11
them? I feel like that's kind of more
58:13
than one thing I know. I'm sure.
58:16
What's the one thing that you could remember in recent memory
58:19
that like really like, Oh yeah, don't do that.
58:21
Don't do that here. We don't do that.
58:25
I think the the whole I'm trying to think feel like there was
58:30
something there was something kind of like that that I had to
58:33
stop a cook from from from doing There was and it wasn't
58:38
necessarily it was just like, yeah, it was just not the the
58:41
the standard, right. I think it's kind of was how
58:44
messy this station was. Yes.
58:47
I think it was kind of like the sort of disorganization of like,
58:51
OK, now you're there is towers everywhere, right?
58:54
And, and, and you were trying to kind of like cut something or
59:01
you try to kind of bring, bring like a product and it's not
59:04
inside of a container. It's not something, you know,
59:06
you just, you just, you just, yeah, exactly like, you know,
59:10
like, and you kind of like, you know, like, OK, no, you can't do
59:13
that. Like, you know, you have to to
59:15
to. Yeah, bring a container.
59:16
Yeah, just stop what you're doing, re clean this whole
59:21
thing. Organize yourself.
59:22
Yeah. Tiles go here, let's go here,
59:25
let's go there. Yeah.
59:26
And then, and then, And then. Now you can work.
59:31
Now you can reset. Now you can start working.
59:33
All right, chef, where can people find you?
59:36
People find me, I'll be a Juniper, you know, and then and
59:42
then in Chicago. But but definitely you can find
59:45
me Nick and juniors in in May. And on Instagram.
59:51
They want to follow you Instagram chef Junior Borges.
59:54
Awesome. Thank you, chef.
59:55
It's always fun to have you here.
59:56
Thanks, man. Yeah, I appreciate it.
59:58
Yeah, awesome. Well, I hope you enjoyed the
1:00:00
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1:00:01
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