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Hebrews 12:4-13 - Does God Really Discipline Christians? · The Bible Explained with Jenn Kokal

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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey there, faithful listeners, welcome to the Bible
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Speaker 1: Explain Podcasts on this lovely Tuesday morning. So we're in
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Speaker 1: Hebrews twelve verses four through thirteen today and this entire
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Speaker 1: passage is going to be discussing the discipline of God.
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Speaker 1: And I'm going to say this is not a topic
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Speaker 1: that a lot of people enjoy discussing, but we're going
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Speaker 1: to talk about it because it is here in scripture
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Speaker 1: and it is true God does discipline his people. I mean,
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Speaker 1: we've been going through the Old Testament and we see
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Speaker 1: the discipline of God on many different occasions. So we'll
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Speaker 1: discuss this right after a quick word from a sponsor. Okay,
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Speaker 1: grab your bibles and let's turn to Hebrews twelve four
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Speaker 1: through thirteen. And today I'll be reading from the NLT
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Speaker 1: version rather than the Web as I usually do, but
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Speaker 1: feel free to grab the version of the Bible that
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Speaker 1: you prefer this morning, and also your cup of coffee
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Speaker 1: or your cup of tea to share with me as
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Speaker 1: we read Hebrews twelve four through thirteen. Together. You have
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Speaker 1: not yet resisted to blood, striving against sin. You have
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Speaker 1: forgotten the exhortation which reasons with you as with children,
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Speaker 1: My son, don't take lightly the chastening of the Lord,
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Speaker 1: nor faint when you are reproved by him. For whom
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Speaker 1: the Lord loves, he disciplines and chastises every son whom
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Speaker 1: he receives. It is for discipline that you endure. God
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Speaker 1: deals with you as with children. For what son is
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Speaker 1: there whom his father doesn't discipline. But if you are
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Speaker 1: without discipline, of which all have been made partakers, then
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Speaker 1: you are illegitimate and not children. Furthermore, we had the
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Speaker 1: fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we paid
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Speaker 1: them respect. Shall we not much rather be in subjection
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Speaker 1: to the father of spirits and live for they indeed,
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Speaker 1: for a few days disciplined us as seemed good to them.
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Speaker 1: But he for our prophet, that we may be partakers
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Speaker 1: of His holiness. All chastening seems for the present not
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Speaker 1: to be joyous but grievous. Yet afterwards it yields the
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Speaker 1: peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained
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Speaker 1: by it. Therefore, lift up the hands that hang down
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Speaker 1: and the feeble knees, and make straight paths for your feet,
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Speaker 1: so what is lame may not be dislocated. But rather
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Speaker 1: be healed. So now this is talking about the discipline
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Speaker 1: of God. And this is a topic that a lot
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Speaker 1: of people really don't like, and I can kind of
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Speaker 1: understand it, because why would a loving God discipline us?
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Speaker 1: Why would a loving God do something to us that
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Speaker 1: we think is really terrible? And a lot of people
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Speaker 1: struggle with that question. In fact, one of the hardest
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Speaker 1: questions there is to answer is why does God allow
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Speaker 1: bad things to happen to good people? And that's kind
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Speaker 1: of what the author is talking about here. He says,
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Speaker 1: in verse four, you have not yet resisted to blood,
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Speaker 1: striving against sin. Now, don't forget what we talked about
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Speaker 1: in Hebrews eleven. The entire thing was all of these
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Speaker 1: faith stories of these people who went through terrible circumstances
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Speaker 1: and yet through their faith, endured to the very end,
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Speaker 1: some of them even struggling through severe persecution and even
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Speaker 1: death and martyrdom in some of the most extreme and
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Speaker 1: tortuous ways, and yet they still held onto the faith,
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Speaker 1: trusting that God was the truth and that he was
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Speaker 1: a promise keeper. So now in verse four, the author
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Speaker 1: is telling his audience that they have not endured persecutions
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Speaker 1: to the same extent that some of these other people have.
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Speaker 1: You have not yet resisted to blood striving against sin. Now,
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Speaker 1: the sin that the author is talking about in this
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Speaker 1: verse is not one's personal sin, but the sin of
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Speaker 1: another person, the sin of somebody trying to kill you
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Speaker 1: for your faith. That is what he's talking about here.
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Speaker 1: So he's saying you have not yet resisted to blood.
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Speaker 1: The church that this author is speaking to has not
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Speaker 1: endured the types of persecutions that they read about in
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Speaker 1: the Old Testament. They haven't had to lose their lives
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Speaker 1: over their faith. Yet, they haven't had to strive against
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Speaker 1: somebody else's sin of wanting to kill them for their faith.
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Speaker 1: So he continues in verse five. Because you haven't experienced
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Speaker 1: this type of persecution, he says, you have forgotten the exhortation,
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Speaker 1: which reasons with you as with children. Quote, my son,
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Speaker 1: don't take lightly the chastening of the Lord, nor faint
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Speaker 1: when you are reproved by him. For whom the Lord loves,
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Speaker 1: he disciplines and chastises every son whom he receives. Now
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Speaker 1: that is a verse from Proverbs chapter three, eleven and twelve,
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Speaker 1: which says, my son, don't despise you always discipline, neither
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Speaker 1: be weary of his correction. For whom the Lord loves,
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Speaker 1: he corrects, even as a father reproves the son in
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Speaker 1: whom he delights. So that is a verse discussing the
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Speaker 1: discipline of God. God actually disciplines people who he loves.
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Speaker 1: He disciplines his own children. And the author continues in
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Speaker 1: verse seven, it is for discipline that you endure God.
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Speaker 1: God deals with you as with children. For what son
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Speaker 1: is there whom his father doesn't discipline? So he says
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Speaker 1: to the church, Look, you haven't experienced martyrdom yet, but
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Speaker 1: you have experienced a lot of trials. You have gone
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Speaker 1: through things, and these things that you are enduring through
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Speaker 1: is actually the discipline of God. It says, God deals
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Speaker 1: with you as with his own children. For what son
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Speaker 1: is there whom his father doesn't discipline. And you might
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Speaker 1: be like, well, jen, I know a lot of children
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Speaker 1: who aren't disciplined. Well, that takes me to a verse
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Speaker 1: from Proverbs thirteen, verse twenty four, which says whoever spares
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Speaker 1: the rod hates their children, but the one who loves
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Speaker 1: their children is careful to discipline them. That is from
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Speaker 1: the NIV version, and that's a very blunt verse to
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Speaker 1: say that anyone who refuses to discipline their own children
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Speaker 1: actually hates them because they are causing their child to
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Speaker 1: grow up to be an entitled, terrible, selfish adult that
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Speaker 1: other people are going to hate, somebody that cannot function
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Speaker 1: in society. So disciplining a child when he is young
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Speaker 1: is actually a good thing so that he grows up
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Speaker 1: to be a successful and well rounded adult. And the
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Speaker 1: reason I think parents sometimes don't discipline their kids. They
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Speaker 1: might not think that they hate their children, but they're
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Speaker 1: doing it out of selfishness. They don't want to seem
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Speaker 1: like the bad guy. They'd rather be a friend of
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Speaker 1: their child than a parent or a disciplinarian. But again,
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Speaker 1: that is a selfish motive. That is the parent caring
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Speaker 1: more about their own image, even to their kid, than
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Speaker 1: it is about the success and well being of their child,
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Speaker 1: especially as that child enters adulthood. So arguably, children that
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Speaker 1: are disciplined are loved by their parents. And that is
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Speaker 1: what God is doing to us when he disciplines us.
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Speaker 1: God loves us, And it says God deals with us
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Speaker 1: as with children, for what son is there whom his
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Speaker 1: father doesn't discipline. But if you are without discipline of
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Speaker 1: which all have been made partakers, then you are illegitimate
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Speaker 1: and not children. So if somebody hasn't experienced the discipline
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Speaker 1: of God, then that means that they are not actually
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Speaker 1: considered to be part of God's family. They are not
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Speaker 1: a child of God. Just as a parent wouldn't spank
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Speaker 1: or discipline a child that is not theirs. I remember
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Speaker 1: years ago when I was a very little kid, and
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Speaker 1: my mom was watching these other three kids for a
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Speaker 1: week when they're while their parents were on vacation or something.
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Speaker 1: And these three kids, they weren't terribly behaved, but they
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Speaker 1: weren't super well behaved, but my mom would not spank
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Speaker 1: them if they did something wrong because they were not
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Speaker 1: her kids. They were not considered to be part of
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Speaker 1: her children. So my mom would discipline me if I
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Speaker 1: went along with these other kids, but she would not
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Speaker 1: discipline those kids because they weren't hers. And same thing
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Speaker 1: goes with God. God is not going to discipline children
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Speaker 1: that are not his. He's only going to discipline his own.
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Speaker 1: And it says, shall we not much rather be in
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Speaker 1: subjection to the Father of spirits and live for they?
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Speaker 1: Indeed for a few days disciplined us as seemed good
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Speaker 1: to them, but he for our profit that we may
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Speaker 1: be partakers of his holiness. So God is doing this
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Speaker 1: when he disciplines us for our own good, so that
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Speaker 1: we can be partakers of his holiness. And every child
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Speaker 1: that he has is going to be disciplined by God.
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Speaker 1: But this isn't going to be fun. The author goes
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Speaker 1: into this. He says, all chastening seems for the present
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Speaker 1: to be not joyous but grievous. Yet afterward it yields
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Speaker 1: the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been
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Speaker 1: trained by it. So anybody who experienced discipline is not
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Speaker 1: going to enjoy it in the moment. Nobody wants to
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Speaker 1: be disciplined. It is not fun. It is excruciating at times,
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Speaker 1: it is miserable. And I'm sure if you've gone through
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Speaker 1: a trial, you understand that you do not want to
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Speaker 1: be in that trial. You don't want to go through
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Speaker 1: that trial. You would rather be doing anything else other
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Speaker 1: than that trial. But if you think about it, if
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Speaker 1: you reframe it and think about it a different way,
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Speaker 1: God is doing this because he loves you, because he
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Speaker 1: considers you one of his children. And that's actually a
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Speaker 1: really beautiful thing. So, going back to that verse from
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Speaker 1: Proverbs three, discipline from God is not something that we
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Speaker 1: should despise. We should rethink it. We should think, Wow,
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Speaker 1: God loves me enough that he considers me a father,
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Speaker 1: that he wants to make me a better person. And
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Speaker 1: that being said, you know, sometimes trials are unbearable, but
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Speaker 1: God will use them every single time to grow us
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Speaker 1: in our faith. I can tell you the times when
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Speaker 1: I have struggled through a trial, those are the times
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Speaker 1: that my faith has grown the most. You know, when
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Speaker 1: I went through my whole thing in twenty nineteen, everybody
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Speaker 1: said like they could see a marked difference in me,
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Speaker 1: and that was terrible. I'd never want to go through
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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen again and everything that happened with that, I
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Speaker 1: would hate to go through that again. And yet I'm
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Speaker 1: so happy I went through it because God really revealed
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Speaker 1: himself to me and that was when I truly gave
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Speaker 1: my life to Jesus after that, So I'm so thankful
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Speaker 1: I went through those trials. And sometimes when we're in
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Speaker 1: the middle of them, it's just really hard to see that.
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Speaker 1: It's hard to see how is God using this for good?
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Speaker 1: How is God using my pain, my suffering, my humiliation
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Speaker 1: for good. How is this going to be good for me?
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Speaker 1: How is it going to be good for other people?
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Speaker 1: And yet God always, when you come out of it,
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Speaker 1: you're going to see God always does use it for good.
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Speaker 1: So this discipline from God is for our own good
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Speaker 1: because it's going to help you trust God more. It's
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Speaker 1: going to help you see God's power. It's going to
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Speaker 1: help you understand God's grace. Remember when Paul was given
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Speaker 1: that thorn in his flesh from Satan, Paul begged God
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Speaker 1: to remove it from him three times, and God said
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Speaker 1: to him every single time, Paul, my grace is sufficient
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Speaker 1: for you. My power works best in weakness. And Paul
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Speaker 1: learned from that enough to tell everybody that story and
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Speaker 1: to encourage other people when they are given trials that
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Speaker 1: seem unbearable to them. When I was going through my
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Speaker 1: stomach problems, which I'm still going through that a little bit,
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Speaker 1: but not as much as I was all last year
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Speaker 1: and the year before, I felt like I couldn't eat
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Speaker 1: anything without getting sick, and I would get sick a
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Speaker 1: lot of times, and I remember just begging God and
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Speaker 1: asking him for answers, and somehow that passage where Paul
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Speaker 1: was talking about the thorn in his flesh just kept
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Speaker 1: coming up for me, and it made a lot more
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Speaker 1: sense when God says, Paul, my grace is sufficient for you.
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Speaker 1: My power works best in weakness. When I feel sick,
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Speaker 1: when I feel like I need something more from God,
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Speaker 1: God reminds me, Jen, my grace is sufficient for you.
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Speaker 1: My power works best in weakness. And I realize, when
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Speaker 1: I'm begging God for even more, that God has already
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Speaker 1: blessed me with so so much. He's already blessed me
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Speaker 1: with his grace. But discipline and trials and persecution and
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Speaker 1: other terrible things that we experience. They're not fun, but
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Speaker 1: we do go through them because God is going to
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Speaker 1: use these things for our good. And when we go
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Speaker 1: through these things, we can remember that God considers us
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Speaker 1: his children, his actual legitimate children, not illegitimate children, but
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Speaker 1: legitimate children. He loves us that much. And so, to
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Speaker 1: conclude in verses twelve and thirteen, it says, therefore, lift
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Speaker 1: up the hands that hang down and the feeble knees,
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Speaker 1: and make straight paths for your feet. So what is
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Speaker 1: lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. So,
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Speaker 1: in other words, don't feel so distraught when you're going
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Speaker 1: through these trials and persecutions. Instead, recognize that God is supreme,
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Speaker 1: that God cares about you, and he loves you, just
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Speaker 1: like how he loved all those people in the Old
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Speaker 1: Testament who have such amazing faith stories, and look what
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Speaker 1: they were able to deal with, Look what they went
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Speaker 1: through because they trusted that God was a promised keeper.
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Speaker 1: So the author tells us to do the same thing.
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Speaker 1: Don't be depressed. Lift up your hands that hang down
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Speaker 1: in praise, lift them up to God. Praise Him today,
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Speaker 1: Praise Him through your trial, Praise Him through your sickness,
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Speaker 1: Praise Him through whatever you're going through. And make straight
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Speaker 1: paths for your feet. How do we do that, Well,
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Speaker 1: we go to Proverbs three and read verses five and
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Speaker 1: six to get the answer to that which says, trust
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Speaker 1: in Yahweh with all your heart, and do not lean
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Speaker 1: on your own understanding in all your ways. Acknowledge Him
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Speaker 1: and He will make your paths straight. So don't lean
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Speaker 1: on your own understanding in the middle of these trials. Instead,
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Speaker 1: acknowledge God in all your ways, and He will make
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Speaker 1: your path straight. He's going to put you on the
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Speaker 1: path that he wants you to go, and pretty soon
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Speaker 1: the trial that you're experiencing is going to be in
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Speaker 1: the past. You're going to walk right out of it
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Speaker 1: because God is going to make your path straight and
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Speaker 1: you're going to look behind you if you kept the faith,
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Speaker 1: and you're going to say, oh wow, I see now
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Speaker 1: why God allowed me to go through that. I see
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Speaker 1: now what God was training me to do. I see
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Speaker 1: what God was teaching me throughout all of that. And
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Speaker 1: that is why testimonies are so important. Because other people
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Speaker 1: who have experienced discipline or trials or persecutions or whatever
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Speaker 1: and came out stronger after they went through those things.
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Speaker 1: They can share their stories with other people and say, look,
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Speaker 1: I went through this, and I am okay. Look I
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Speaker 1: got through this. Maybe I'm still struggling with it, but
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Speaker 1: I am okay because I trust in God as my savior.
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Speaker 1: I trust that his grace is sufficient for me. I
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Speaker 1: am no longer leaning on my own understanding, but acknowledging
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Speaker 1: that He is trustworthy and that He is a promise keeper. Well,
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Speaker 1: faithful listeners, Hopefully this episode was encouraging to all of
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Speaker 1: you guys, even if you're struggling through something. It is
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Speaker 1: so so good to remember that God loves you so
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Speaker 1: deeply and that he sees what you're going through and
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Speaker 1: he knows that it is painful, he knows that it's difficult,
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Speaker 1: but he also knows that it's going to grow you.
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Speaker 1: You're going to become a better person at the end
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Speaker 1: of it. So just remember that if you are going
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Speaker 1: through some sort of trial. Now, I'm going to finish
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Speaker 1: out this podcast right after this advertisement from a sponsor
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Speaker 1: by discussing the discipline aspect of all of this, because
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Speaker 1: I kind of brushed over that. So I'll close out
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Speaker 1: this episode by talking about God's discipline and how we
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Speaker 1: can grow from that right after this. Now, I don't
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Speaker 1: know if every single trial is necessarily discipline. I do
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Speaker 1: believe that every trial is allowed by God because there's
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Speaker 1: nothing that goes unnoticed by him. He ultimately has supreme
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Speaker 1: authority and he uses these trials for our betterment. But
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Speaker 1: sometimes he allows us to go through things because he's
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Speaker 1: actually disciplining us for some sort of sin that we
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Speaker 1: have done. For example, you know, we talk a lot
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Speaker 1: in the Old Testament about the punishment of the Jewish
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Speaker 1: people and how God would punish them for their idolatry
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Speaker 1: by allowing these other nations to come in, and by
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Speaker 1: you know, withholding rain from their crops or allowing disease
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Speaker 1: to spread or something along those lines. God does discipline
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Speaker 1: in the Old Testament, and sometimes I think we forget
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Speaker 1: that attribute of God that God is a judge and
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Speaker 1: he will, in fact discipline if somebody is sinning. So
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Speaker 1: how much more is he going to discipline a child
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Speaker 1: that he loves when he sees them going off the
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Speaker 1: wrong path? Now, one of the reasons that I think
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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't like that subject is because
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Speaker 1: it's been used against them, because maybe somebody has come
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Speaker 1: up to you and been like, oh, the reason you're
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Speaker 1: going through this problem is because you are sinning. Well,
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Speaker 1: first and foremost, that's not anybody's business, And nobody really
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Speaker 1: has the right to come up to you and say
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Speaker 1: something like that if they don't know for sure that
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Speaker 1: you are sinning. Like there is something to be said
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Speaker 1: about public sin, Like if somebody is publicly sinning, then yes,
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Speaker 1: you do confront them, you tell them about their sin.
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Speaker 1: You are supposed to do that as a loving member
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Speaker 1: of the body of Christ. But say somebody is going
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Speaker 1: through some sort of trial and you don't know of
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Speaker 1: any particular sin that they committed. It is nobody's business
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Speaker 1: if God is disciplining that person or not, and it's
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Speaker 1: actually counterproductive. Instead of saying, oh, God is disciplining you
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Speaker 1: in this thing, the better thing that should be said
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Speaker 1: is I'm going to pray for you through this trial,
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Speaker 1: and I'm going to pray specifically that you grow closer
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Speaker 1: to God through this trial. That is something that is productive,
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Speaker 1: something that is good, something that is God honoring. Not
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Speaker 1: going up to somebody that is suffering and being like, oh,
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Speaker 1: well the reason you're going through that is because you
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Speaker 1: are sinning. It is just not productive. Specifically, if there
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Speaker 1: is no particular sin that you know of, it is
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Speaker 1: wrong to act like that. But regardless, God does discipline
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Speaker 1: his children. And if there is a particular sin that
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Speaker 1: you know of and you're going through some sort of trial,
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Speaker 1: maybe that is God's way of getting through to you
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Speaker 1: with this sin that you are struggling with. But I
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Speaker 1: will say this, when you are disciplined by God, you
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Speaker 1: will know when it's disciplined, and hopefully you will learn
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Speaker 1: from it in the end. Well, faithful listeners, I hope
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Speaker 1: you enjoyed today's episode. I will see all of you
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Speaker 1: guys tommorrow as we finish out the Book of Ezra.
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Speaker 1: Ezra ended on a very bizarre note, and we are
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Speaker 1: going to finish that discussion tomorrow. So I hope all
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Speaker 1: of you guys tune in then six am or whenever
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Speaker 1: you choose to wake up and listen until tomorrow. Happy listening,
19:15
Speaker 1: and God bless. I just want to take a second
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Speaker 1: to thank the team at Life Audio for their partnership
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Speaker 1: with me on the Bible Explain podcast. In fact, if
19:28
Speaker 1: you go to lifeaudio dot com you'll find dozens of
19:31
Speaker 1: other faith centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows
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Speaker 1: about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.