Latest / Critical Error / GOTYs That Aged Like Milk

Transcript

GOTYs That Aged Like Milk · Critical Error

0:00
Game of the Year is forever on
0:01
Wikipedia.
0:03
>> A critical error is an error which the
0:05
OS cannot reasonably ignore.
0:08
Jake Steinberg is [music] a streamer and
0:10
writer and certified yapper.
0:11
Complimentary. Peter Hunt spit tech is a
0:15
YouTuber, journalist, and certified
0:17
yapper. Derogatory. These are the things
0:20
they cannot reasonably ignore. When I go
0:22
out to my weekly trivia nights, you have
0:25
no idea how often the best picture award
0:29
winners from years, decades past come
0:31
up. All I really know about film, about
0:35
movies from all of those years is who
0:37
won those awards. That's the cannon.
0:39
That's what has the cultural zeitgeist.
0:41
That's what's imprinted upon my
0:43
impression of art in that medium over
0:46
those time periods. My question today,
0:49
what do we learn about video games,
0:52
about the game awards when we look at
0:55
Overwatch, Dragon Age Inquisition, last
0:58
year's winner, Astrobot? What do these
1:01
games tell us about the game awards and
1:02
about how we talk about games? And do we
1:05
feel that by winning game of the year,
1:09
these games cement a place in the cannon
1:13
of video games irreocably.
1:18
>> And I loved how you sounded it out. I
1:20
really did. And I like that you got
1:21
there cuz sometimes I have a hard time.
1:22
No.
1:23
>> You know, it's funny. It's funny, Jake.
1:27
>> The game every people make such a big
1:28
deal out of the game awards, TGA, right?
1:32
Uh, and and I think we all, and by we
1:35
all, I mean a lot of games media folk
1:38
recognize it's a little silly,
1:40
>> right?
1:41
>> Yeah, it's a little it's a little silly.
1:42
The pageantry of it, it's a little
1:43
silly. The the corporatization of it,
1:46
it's a little silly. Um, that's not to
1:48
say it's not it's not relevant, but when
1:50
we talk about like the idea of like game
1:52
of the year and stuff like that. I think
1:55
like
1:56
people are so often talking about the
1:58
game awards, but I'm actually kind of
2:00
just interested in like the way that
2:02
like a game can win multiple awards,
2:07
right? Because there's of course there's
2:08
like the game awards game of the year,
2:10
but then there's like the Golden
2:11
Joysticks and like BAFTAs and stuff like
2:13
that, right? that also name a singular
2:15
game of the year and stuff like that.
2:18
And so when when I reflect on
2:21
these games that are named this is the
2:24
game of the year by these different
2:26
sometimes sometimes it's the same game
2:27
from multiple different like uh uh award
2:29
shows. Sometimes it's different games.
2:31
When I look at those lists of like all
2:33
the games that have won these awards and
2:34
stuff like that, it's interesting cuz
2:36
some of them stand out to me where I'm
2:37
like this did not stand the test of
2:40
time. Not that it didn't age well, but
2:42
it didn't stand the test of time in
2:43
terms of people saying like this is the
2:44
most important game from that year. Did
2:46
you ever like feel that?
2:48
>> Wow. I think it would be helpful to
2:51
rather than speak broadly, maybe work
2:53
backwards from an example and maybe the
2:55
easiest one would just be to look at
2:57
last year's winner. Um, Astrobot, the
3:00
PlayStation 5 platformer. So, you feel
3:04
>> Tell me how you feel about this game.
3:05
Yeah.
3:06
>> So, Astrobot won. I'm taking a look. By
3:08
the way, there's a uh a a Reddit post
3:11
where someone compiled um the past 12
3:14
years or so of of major game award
3:17
shows. So, the Game Awards, Golden
3:19
Joysticks, BAFTA, Steam Awards, um Game
3:21
Developer Conference Awards, uh excuse
3:23
me, Game Developer Choice Awards, uh
3:25
DICE, that sort of stuff. Um and they
3:27
compiled it here. And so, Afterbot won
3:29
the game awards, DICE, and BAFTA, the
3:31
the game of the year award. And
3:34
it's been 12 months since that game
3:38
hit so many of these awards. And I have
3:40
not heard people talk about it really
3:42
once since. And that's not to say it's
3:45
not a good game. I haven't played it. So
3:46
I can't speak to its quality, but I can
3:49
speak to like in my perspective, its
3:52
place culturally. Like it it didn't have
3:54
a cultural footprint. It sort of came
3:55
and went as being sort of like what I
3:58
might ungraciously call like a Funko Pop
4:01
video game where it's just like like you
4:04
know I love PlayStation. That's the
4:06
game. And then it just kind of
4:08
disappeared in the night. Again, it's
4:10
not to say it's not a good fun
4:11
platformer or anything like that, but I
4:12
look at that game and I'm like, this is
4:14
something that did not maybe have the
4:15
cultural footprint, the the um the oomph
4:19
behind what I would consider something
4:20
that is like meant to be the best game
4:23
of the year, maybe the most important
4:24
game of the year, however you want to
4:25
call it.
4:26
>> Very rarely on this show are you and I
4:29
ever really cutting it up about how we
4:30
feel about video games. So, allow me to
4:33
unload for a moment [laughter] about
4:35
PlayStation's Astrobot. Okay.
4:37
>> Uh-huh.
4:38
>> Astrobot
4:40
Astrobot is not
4:41
>> a bad game.
4:43
>> Certainly not.
4:44
>> Astrobot is an un Astrobot is a is an
4:47
unimportant game.
4:49
>> Interesting.
4:51
>> Astrobot is unimportant. And I think
4:53
that there is a certain kinds of p a
4:55
kind of person uh that is particularly
4:58
prevalent in games media that is highly
5:00
susceptible to every lever that Astrobot
5:04
is pulling on. Number one, my first
5:07
grievance I would like to get off of my
5:08
chest.
5:10
Platforming is the most pure expression
5:14
of playing a video game. What is What
5:16
are you talking about? You weirdo. You
5:18
little weirdo. Okay, they're like
5:21
they're like, "Oh, this is the game that
5:22
existed in the 80s or a version of it
5:24
and it's doing something to me on a
5:27
chemical level that I've decided this is
5:29
video games." It's absolut absolutely
5:31
pathetic. Number number two, uh the the
5:35
uh PlayStation who makes these prestige
5:38
dramatic TV show games. They [laughter]
5:41
found it in their heart to make a 3D
5:45
platformer. THANK YOU, PLAYSTATION.
5:47
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. All right. Number
5:48
three. Number three.
5:50
>> Yeah.
5:52
>> There.
5:53
Ape escape. [laughter]
5:55
>> The people moi. Dude, that's my thing.
5:58
It's like I was like,
5:59
>> Aloy Aloy is in this game. Oh my god,
6:03
dude. Wait, no. Stop it. This is Listen,
6:06
all of these things are good. All of
6:07
these things are fine. Are they Is this
6:09
worth the the $50 reduced pricing of
6:12
Astrobot on PlayStation 5? Of course. Of
6:16
course. Is this important to the cannon
6:18
of video games? Is this important to the
6:21
medium? I cannot see any world in which
6:24
the answer is yes, Ray. So, what what I
6:27
find interesting about that game
6:28
specifically, and and this applies to to
6:31
a broad sense for some of the other
6:32
games on on this list that we'll we'll
6:33
be we might sort of dig into here is
6:36
that I'm like, no, no, exactly what
6:37
you're saying. I'm not saying it's a bad
6:38
game. I'm not saying it's not worth the
6:40
money, the time you could spend playing
6:42
it, any of that. But I am saying like in
6:44
terms of being something that like
6:46
stands the test of time that people
6:47
point to and say like, "Wow, this is a
6:49
game that was really important out of
6:51
the 2020s."
6:53
I I just don't know if it's gonna if
6:55
it's gonna hit that because it's funny
6:57
too because like to me I think Astro's
7:00
Playroom has more cultural relevance
7:03
than Astrobot because it was that
7:05
pack-in game with the PS5 that showed
7:07
you oh the Dual Sense does all this
7:09
whatever you know I see I feel like I
7:11
see people talk about that game more and
7:13
of course it's been around for longer
7:14
but I feel like I've seen that people
7:16
talk about that game more than I ever
7:17
really have heard them talk about
7:18
Astrobot. Does that kind of make sense?
7:20
Now, are you talking about Astro the
7:23
Playroom, the pack in PS5 game, or are
7:25
you talking about Rescue Mission, the VR
7:27
game?
7:27
>> No, I'm talking about the pack in the
7:30
I've never heard of people discuss the
7:33
the that one other than saying like,
7:35
"Oh, Astrobots from this VR game." I was
7:36
like, "All right, cool. I don't
7:38
>> Oh, okay. See, see, cuz I actually my my
7:40
perspective on this is actually that
7:42
Astrobot PS5 will only ever be brought
7:45
up in the context of reviews for other
7:48
3D platformers so that people can say in
7:51
the future it's better than Astrobot.
7:53
Whereas, I actually think that Astro's
7:56
uh Astrobot Rescue Mission, the
7:58
PlayStation VR game, will be brought up
8:00
again in reviews for VR games for no
8:03
reason other than to say it is not as
8:05
good as Rescue Mission.
8:06
>> I see. I see. I see. But so what I find
8:08
interesting about this though is not
8:09
about the specifics of Astrobot, right?
8:11
Cuz and here's the thing. I understand
8:13
that in saying first of all I understand
8:15
I'm wearing a PlayStation hoodie so like
8:17
glass houses and whatever. Um so you
8:21
know what I mean like like oh god
8:24
>> whatever. But I am saying that that like
8:26
uh uh there is a type of game that wins
8:29
these sorts of awards that that we all
8:31
sort of deem um to be the most important
8:34
from the year. And often I just don't
8:37
think they have the legs. I I I don't
8:39
think that they like when I think about
8:41
like, you know, oh, the most important
8:43
game from uh 2021,
8:46
was it Resident Evil Village?
8:49
Is that even is that the most important
8:50
game in that series? Even it's a great
8:52
game. I do love Resident Evil Village.
8:55
But if I were to recommend someone play
8:57
a Resident Evil game, would Village be
8:59
in my top five? I don't know. You know,
9:01
I think I think like this is sort of
9:03
what I'm getting at. And so I'm curious,
9:05
when you look at this list here, again,
9:07
this is from 2013 to now. These are the
9:09
winners of, um, the Game Awards, the
9:11
Golden Joysticks, BAFTAs, Steam, uh,
9:14
whatever they're I think it's their the
9:16
Steam game of the year stuff that they
9:18
do.
9:18
>> Yeah.
9:19
>> Um, uh, the DICE awards, Game Developer
9:22
Choice Awards. Are there any that really
9:24
stick out to you in the same way that
9:25
Astrobot sticks out to me as as like
9:28
this just did not stand the test of time
9:31
in terms of having a cultural footprint
9:32
that really uh uh moved gaming forward?
9:36
>> Oh my goodness, what a sweet sweet
9:39
little question. Yeah,
9:40
>> that is man. Okay, I like this a lot. Um
9:44
okay, so do you want to stick to just
9:46
the big boy the game awards or are you
9:48
happy with anything else? I'm happy with
9:50
any because because the game awards are
9:51
like are important because it's like the
9:53
biggest stage in gaming. Sure. But like
9:56
the these are the uh the most
9:59
prestigious awards you can get, right?
10:00
BAFTA does like oh wow that you people
10:02
get so excited about that, right? Um so
10:04
it's not just the game awards that I
10:06
think are important here because these
10:08
uh uh awards do all hold weight of a
10:11
certain kind.
10:13
>> Yeah. So, I actually think that the Game
10:14
Awards largely is pretty good at
10:18
identifying what will become a common
10:20
point of reference in video game
10:24
discourse. I think that like if you win
10:26
game of the year, you best believe that
10:29
this is a game that will be referred
10:32
back to in the future. And I got to tell
10:34
you, I am a huge fan of this game. But
10:37
there is one there is one out of the
10:40
game awards TGA winners that I'm a
10:43
little bit like oh I maybe though I like
10:46
this game and that I would I would give
10:48
a game game of the year for that year. I
10:50
think God of War I think has fallen out.
10:55
I would agree. I would agree. And and
10:57
it's not that so here's here's what I
10:59
find interesting about it. I I think
11:01
that that God of War reboot is iconic. I
11:05
I think it has a fair amount of iconic
11:07
stuff, but as far as like what it has
11:09
done for gaming, I don't really think it
11:10
did a whole lot because I think the
11:12
things that that game did um it was it
11:15
was sort of copying the homework from
11:17
The Last of Us a little bit. Do you know
11:18
what I mean? In in sort of what that was
11:20
trying to achieve and stuff like that.
11:21
And The Last of Us is on here certainly.
11:23
Yeah. For for 2023, uh excuse me, 2013.
11:26
Um, but like I think a lot of the things
11:28
that that game was doing, um, The Last
11:31
of Us was doing as well. And the impact
11:33
that The Last of Us had is is much wider
11:38
reaching than something like God of War
11:40
2018. Would you agree? Is that is that
11:42
sort of where you're coming from?
11:43
>> Oh, no. 100%. Yeah. God of War, I think,
11:46
is an articulation of something that
11:49
people already knew that they really
11:51
liked as opposed to kind of um defining
11:56
a space in the way in the way that I
11:58
think
11:58
>> Hades is defining something that people
12:01
in video games like in the way that
12:04
Breath of the Wild is defining something
12:06
that will again part of being in the
12:09
canon is that you will be referenced
12:11
back. You will be people will point back
12:12
to you. How many times do we point back
12:15
to Breath of the Wild when we talk about
12:16
games? How many times do we point back
12:18
to Hades? Yeah. You know,
12:19
>> I will say
12:20
>> I don't think people Yeah, with God of
12:22
War, I don't think people do that.
12:23
>> With God of War, it's it's less about
12:25
like game stuff, and I think it's a lot
12:28
more like uh imagery. I I I do think
12:32
that that the new revamped version of
12:34
Kratos and Atreaus, like the two of them
12:36
I do think are iconic characters. Um,
12:40
and and that game did bring those
12:41
characters back into the mainstream in
12:43
terms of like being uh characters that
12:45
are referenced and like have like fan
12:47
art of them and stuff like that. Like I
12:48
do think it has a cultural footprint,
12:50
but I don't think that it is as maybe
12:51
like influential as as what you're
12:54
saying like Breath of the Wild of
12:55
course, right? And all that.
12:56
>> The thing I think that is most special
12:58
about that God of War reboot is the
13:00
directorial eye. it is that there is
13:03
more than most games I play, especially
13:05
games of that kind of uh production
13:08
value, there is an indelible authoral
13:12
fingerprint on that game.
13:13
>> Yes.
13:14
>> And it really really pays attention to
13:18
perspective in all meanings of the word.
13:20
Yes. And I don't think that that is what
13:23
people have like taken from that game
13:26
and have chosen to kind of like that we
13:29
haven't like learned that lesson from
13:30
that God of War reboot. It kind of just
13:32
did its thing and then all of these
13:34
years of video games later that has kind
13:37
of not been the thing. That has not, you
13:40
know, in the same way that we point to
13:41
the way that Hades changed rogue likes
13:44
to be a little bit more accessible to
13:45
people that don't like rogue likes. The
13:46
way that Breath of the Wild changed open
13:48
world games. It's like the God of War
13:50
did not say, "Hey, what if we had a more
13:55
tangibly positioned point of view in the
13:58
the delivering of this story?"
14:00
>> Yeah. Which I wish it did cuz I think
14:02
that's really interesting. And and the
14:04
thing is I think it's um what I would
14:06
say uh very hard.
14:09
>> You know what I mean? Because I I think
14:10
it's a lot uh not to say that it's easy,
14:12
but I think it's a lot easier to do cuz
14:14
like the whole Are you talking about
14:15
like the idea of like the one take sort
14:17
of like camera stuff and the way that
14:19
story is told?
14:20
>> I I am, but it's more than that. It's
14:23
when it's when it's high, when it's low,
14:25
when it goes behind a character, when it
14:27
goes when somebody's off camera. It's
14:29
like all of that stuff. I feel like that
14:31
whole game they're thinking about that
14:33
>> the whole it's it's a game full of
14:35
choices which is so
14:38
>> Yes, dude.
14:39
>> Yeah. And it's interesting too. Um this
14:41
is the the the drum I bang on every
14:43
single time this is brought up. Dead
14:45
Space 2 did this in 2011. Uh it did it
14:48
did the same like one shot sort of
14:50
thing, but it does not do what I think
14:52
you've identified that God of War does,
14:54
which is really really use that camera
14:57
in a way that is important. Which also
14:59
then to me part of me says that the fact
15:01
that we're even having this conversation
15:02
and even like really remembering this
15:04
about this and having something uh
15:05
tangible to say about it does partially
15:08
make me say like I think it might still
15:10
have that footprint because that is
15:12
something that people do talk about with
15:14
this.
15:15
I think I think I am representing it
15:18
that way. I don't necessarily know if
15:22
the legacy or the cultural memory of
15:26
that game
15:27
>> that's fair
15:28
>> is wrapped up in this. I think that the
15:30
cultural memory of that game is
15:31
something very different because my my
15:34
argument for this would be that I think
15:36
that God of War Ragnarok actually
15:39
severely lacks what I am talking about
15:41
is present in that God of War reboot.
15:44
And I find that most people will tell
15:46
you again cultural memory that Ragnarok
15:49
is a superior game.
15:52
>> That's so interesting. I tried to replay
15:53
God of War 2018 recently. Uh me and
15:55
Elena tried to do it together and she
15:57
was not about it and I was a little bit
15:59
like I think that game actually shows
16:01
its age pretty in a unfortunate way. I
16:05
think of the way that it's like this is
16:07
a game where there are boxes and
16:09
hallways and you fight people in boxes
16:11
and you walk in the hallways
16:13
>> and yeah, it's it's interesting.
16:15
>> I I so I agree, but I think that the
16:18
artistry that's applied to the
16:19
perspective in God of War actually saves
16:21
that game. And then when you remove that
16:24
I from my point of view in Ragnarok, you
16:26
are left with this like video game ass
16:29
video game that is insufferable for me.
16:32
I Yeah,
16:32
>> it's it's I think it's a good example of
16:34
like how a game can be. It is funny. We
16:36
never like chop it up about video games
16:38
like this.
16:38
>> I know. Isn't this fun?
16:39
>> Yeah. [laughter]
16:41
>> Um it is it is an example of um how I
16:45
think style and like many other thing
16:47
like many different things can sort of
16:50
like save quoteunquote a game. So like I
16:52
also think like the performances in that
16:54
game are phenomenal and the writing I
16:55
think is really solid and like if you
16:57
didn't have great performances, didn't
16:58
have great writing, didn't have this
16:59
like great like sort of camera system
17:02
what you're left with is I think kind of
17:03
an underwhelming experience, but because
17:05
all of those things are working
17:06
together, you end up having something
17:08
that I think is is pretty solid and and
17:10
strong.
17:11
>> Bro, God of War, the the amount of times
17:14
that they're like, "Oh, there's a wall
17:15
here. Oh, we're going to give you pink
17:18
energy destroying swords and now you can
17:21
get past the wall." I'm like, "Come on,
17:23
dude. Come on." But anyways, love the
17:25
game. Uh there's a there's another one
17:26
on here that I think is worth discussing
17:28
that I think would be the most common
17:30
answer.
17:32
>> Uh yeah, hit me.
17:34
>> Dragon Age Inquisition won in 2014 2014
17:39
at the game awards
17:41
>> and I
17:43
loved this game. Loved Inquisition.
17:48
>> So now here's the thing. This game is
17:50
this this happened 11 years ago at this
17:52
point. So because of that, I think these
17:54
games are going to have some some space
17:58
between them, right? And and culturally
18:00
where we're at right now.
18:02
>> I've talked to a lot of people who love
18:04
Dragon Age Inquisition.
18:06
>> I have never heard a person talk about
18:08
Dragon Age Inquisition. Does that make
18:09
sense?
18:10
>> Oo, fascinating. I It does make sense.
18:13
So, I was shocked when this won game of
18:17
the year. I remember this well because I
18:19
remember going into the game awards and
18:21
watching them and being like, "Oh, this
18:23
is my game of the year, but this is this
18:25
is
18:26
>> and it was the game coded.
18:28
>> This is a Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:30
And and I think the I was aware of what
18:33
people would perceive in that game as
18:35
flaws." And knowing the legacy of Dragon
18:39
Age, this is one of these games where I
18:41
didn't like the past Dragon Age games,
18:42
but I really liked Inquisition because I
18:44
thought that they tipped the scale in
18:46
the direction of a CW show just enough
18:51
[laughter] just enough for me to go,
18:53
yes,
18:54
>> yet melodrama Too. And I and I and I
18:59
really um enjoyed a kind of larger than
19:04
life willing to be corny, willing to be
19:10
I don't know like like emotional game in
19:13
this setting THAT WAS NOT
19:15
>> SO CAUGHT up in let me tell you about
19:19
the political minations of this world
19:21
which I think some of these games tend
19:23
to do. So I really like that game. But
19:26
now this question of legacy. So I think
19:29
a great viewpoint in in what is the
19:32
legacy of this game? Where does it stand
19:34
is that we recently had a new Dragon Age
19:37
game come out.
19:38
>> Yeah.
19:39
>> And I don't feel that the conversation
19:43
was like, oh, we veered from
19:46
Inquisition. I don't think that that was
19:48
the conversation. I I also don't I mean
19:50
like people mentioned Dragon Age
19:52
Inquisition when that game came out
19:53
because that was the most recent one
19:55
before then, but it's like similar to
19:57
Inquisition. I guess I can't speak to
19:59
Inquisition cuz I wasn't paying
20:00
attention to this sort of stuff back
20:01
then, but like that new one, the
20:04
Veilgard came and went,
20:05
>> just disappearing at night.
20:06
>> Yeah. Like didn't didn't touch the walls
20:09
on the way down. You know what I mean?
20:10
Didn't even
20:12
>> Yeah.
20:12
>> Veilard, by the way, uh they on the CW
20:16
scale maybe went a little too far. I
20:19
from the cut scenes I've seen, I would
20:20
agree.
20:21
>> They said they said we're we've got
20:23
Smallville.
20:25
We've got uh what's the one with the
20:27
brothers that they're they're hunting
20:29
stuff? Supernatural.
20:30
>> Supernatural. They went supernatural.
20:32
AND THEN THEY WENT [clears throat]
20:34
GOSSIP GIRL. [laughter]
20:39
>> Oh my god. But it's funny looking at
20:41
2014 though, you've got Dark Souls 2,
20:44
which is interesting because then in So
20:47
2014, you got Dark Souls 2 won um the
20:49
Golden Joysticks and then in 2016, Dark
20:51
Souls 3II also won the Golden Joysticks.
20:54
>> Wa, that's crazy. What a good clock.
20:56
>> What I find interesting about this
20:58
[clears throat]
20:58
>> is
21:00
of the Dark Souls games from Software's
21:03
games, I think Dark Souls 1 is the most
21:07
iconic important game that they made. I
21:10
think you can I think there's an
21:11
argument to be made about Sakuro. I
21:13
think there's an argument to be made
21:14
about Elden Ring, especially in this
21:15
modern era. But I think that like all of
21:17
that stems from Dark Souls, right? Of
21:19
course, and then there's Demon Souls
21:20
before it. But Dark Souls is the thing
21:22
that [ __ ] lit a fire in games to to
21:24
be so influential and whatever. Dark
21:27
Souls 2, I think, has an interesting
21:30
footprint culturally because it is
21:33
remembered as, oh, it's kind of a black
21:35
sheep that a lot of people say isn't
21:37
very good. And then there has been the
21:39
counter to that where a lot of people
21:40
are like it's actually awesome and the
21:42
best one. And so there's this huge
21:43
discussion about Dark Souls 2. But then
21:45
Dark Souls III, which is my personal
21:48
favorite, I think does not have this
21:50
cultural uh uh staying power. I I love
21:54
it. It has iconic imagery to me in that
21:57
I got half of my arm tattooed as Dark
22:00
Souls 3I stuff. However, if you talk
22:03
about like name something iconic from
22:05
Dark Souls, you are most likely going to
22:07
name something from Dark Souls 1 or it
22:09
will be something from Dark Souls 2 and
22:11
it will be preceded by well, I just love
22:12
Dark Souls 2. I love this interpretation
22:16
of what you're saying right now because
22:18
there is this you're I think what what
22:21
what we're talking about is this
22:23
thematic stability
22:26
>> that is so important to Legacy because a
22:29
game with like a really clear [snorts]
22:31
like a strong amount of thematic
22:33
stability or even just like a strong
22:35
premise the way that that is able to be
22:38
carried forward as legacy like kind of
22:40
what I was referencing earlier about
22:41
like what Hades did, what Breath of the
22:43
Wild did, what these games represent.
22:45
And I think that games that don't
22:47
establish expectations almost lose
22:51
long-term resonance. So, so kind of what
22:53
you're saying, like Dark Souls 3II, I
22:54
I'm I'm more out on this than you are,
22:56
so I don't really know what the
22:57
reputation is, but the grammar of its
23:00
theme is not I know Fire and Ash.
23:05
>> Mhm.
23:06
>> I know that. And I'm going to say that
23:09
that's not Dark Souls II.
23:11
>> It's in Dark Souls II. Oh, interesting.
23:13
Okay.
23:14
>> But
23:16
I think [laughter] correct now Dark
23:18
Souls fans, correct me if I'm wrong,
23:20
that is also in Dark Souls 1. Like like
23:22
so many of the things that people really
23:23
like about Dark Souls 3II is all are
23:25
also present in Dark Souls 1, right?
23:27
>> Wow.
23:28
>> Um
23:28
>> Okay.
23:30
>> Which I find interesting. I I just find
23:31
that a little fascinating, right? like
23:33
uh this is a game that did produce
23:36
iconic imagery for fans of the series
23:38
and whatever, but I think largely if I
23:40
asked you to conjure up an image in your
23:41
brain of Dark Souls II, could you do it?
23:44
>> Oh, no. I mean, I couldn't, but I look
23:46
at that 2014 list and I go, "Oh, I see
23:50
very clearly the game that has the
23:52
footprint out of those that are listed
23:54
there."
23:56
>> That's Destiny 1.
23:57
>> Destiny 1, dude. No. Yeah. No question,
24:00
dude. Destiny 1. uh I think kind of like
24:04
rearranged people's brain chemistry
24:06
about what a video game could be or what
24:08
they could want from one in to a
24:10
significant degree.
24:11
>> It didn't, but it was it didn't fully
24:14
it's like not fully responsible for
24:15
this, but it's like this created in my
24:18
opinion the modern live service game.
24:20
>> Oh, I completely agree. And it's funny.
24:22
I I know that I'm a Borderlands fan and
24:24
people will tell you, "No, Jake, no
24:26
Jake, historically like Borderlands did
24:28
it first." And I'm like, "No, cuz here's
24:29
the thing. Destiny sold you on something
24:32
that Borderlands could never sell you
24:34
on. You're
24:34
>> right. 100%.
24:36
>> Um
24:36
>> the the kind of like imagined the the
24:40
collective consciousness of what a live
24:42
service game wants you to believe that
24:44
it is was totally actualized by people
24:48
that played Destiny. 100%.
24:50
>> 100%. Um which I I find to be kind of
24:53
fascinating, right? Because also like
24:56
what was more important, Destiny 1 or
24:57
Destiny 2? I guess I can't really say
25:00
because I view them as the same thing. I
25:02
view Destiny 2 as a big continuation of
25:04
what Destiny was doing and just like uh
25:07
uh yes, it has a two at the end of it,
25:09
but like is it the same game?
25:10
Conceptually, I think it is right. Um
25:13
>> yeah, I agree. It's uh it's the Destiny
25:15
project and I think the existence of
25:17
Destiny 2 is largely a business and
25:20
marketing effort more than it is
25:22
something new. Yeah.
25:24
>> Yeah. If I may jump to 2018. Um, here's
25:27
something,
25:27
>> please.
25:28
>> Fortnite won the Golden Joysticks and
25:30
PUBG
25:32
won the Steam Awards, and I find this to
25:35
be fascinating because
25:37
it's not that PUBG does not have any
25:39
cultural relevance. I believe it is
25:41
still huge. Um, I think in Korea and
25:44
South Korea, that is my understanding of
25:45
it. I could also be totally wrong, but
25:48
um it is still huge. And I do think it
25:51
did create things like iconic imagery
25:53
and like culturally it created all sorts
25:55
of stuff in I mean like when I say PUBG
25:58
you you think of the guy in the white
26:00
shirt with the mask on the welder like
26:02
when you when I say like iconic imagery
26:03
like that's them right and they created
26:07
that battle royale formula
26:10
but when Fortnite did it is it is when
26:13
it like [ __ ] exploded cuz PUBG was
26:16
huge. It was it was really big. But like
26:19
Fortnite has just become this thing that
26:20
is unstoppable, right? It has become
26:22
this thing where like they're doing the
26:24
Simpsons in Fortnite. Jake, have you
26:25
heard about this?
26:27
>> I think that first off, I want to ask,
26:30
is Player Unknown's Battlegrounds
26:33
responsible for Winter Winner Chicken
26:34
Dinner? Am I remembering this correctly?
26:36
>> It is. Well, I mean responsible in that
26:38
that is what it said. It didn't
26:40
certainly didn't create that.
26:41
>> Oh, okay. Okay. I wasn't sure to be
26:43
honest with you. So, okay. No, my father
26:44
was saying that to me when I was a
26:46
child, so maybe they stole it from him,
26:47
but
26:48
>> Okay. Yeah, maybe you're right. Um,
26:49
yeah. So, it's I think that this is
26:51
almost uh analogous to the Borderlands
26:53
Destiny comparison because I feel that
26:55
like yeah, Player Unknowns
26:57
Battlegrounds, they were they were doing
26:58
the thing, but I think that Fortnite
27:00
kind of sold the dream of what the thing
27:02
was supposed to be
27:04
>> and figured out Yeah. how to make it
27:06
wide
27:07
>> wide. and I think ended up transforming
27:11
its meaning into something new. So I
27:14
think like Fortnite and PUBG when they
27:16
come out, the thing that's cool about
27:18
them is that they are 100erson battle
27:21
royale games all on the same map. That's
27:23
what's cool about them. [clears throat]
27:24
That is no longer what is cool about
27:26
Fortnite. That is not what Fortnite is.
27:27
>> That's one part of what's cool about
27:29
Fortnite.
27:30
>> It's like Sabrina Carpenters here
27:33
>> IP. That's what's cool about Fortnite.
27:34
That it's a Ready Player One.
27:36
>> So yeah. Yeah. So, it's funny. I think
27:38
like and I think part of stay with me
27:40
here. There's a little big brain. Yeah.
27:42
I think part of what these kinds of
27:46
freetoplay live service games, we're all
27:50
they're updating, the map is changing,
27:51
all this. I think what they are trying
27:54
to sell you is this idea of
27:58
an evolving grammar, of a change in
28:01
meaning, of things that are you've got
28:04
to be there. You've got to know it means
28:06
something different today than it does
28:07
tomorrow. And I think the fact that
28:09
Fortnite as what like its concept of
28:12
like what it is, the fact that that I
28:14
still I feel is still fluid. It is still
28:16
in flux. There is a future for
28:19
Fortnite's meaning to change over and
28:22
over again. That's crazy. That is that's
28:24
legacy, baby.
28:25
>> I agree. And so so to get some some hard
28:27
numbers about this so we're not just
28:29
speaking completely with with no sources
28:31
here. Uh, Jake, do you want to guess how
28:34
many people are playing PUBG right now?
28:37
>> Oh, tell me, dude. Tell me. I'm dying to
28:39
know.
28:40
>> It is 101,000
28:42
people. So, this game is [ __ ] huge.
28:44
>> God,
28:44
>> it is huge, right? Had a 24-hour peak of
28:47
656 thou 100,000 people.
28:51
It's huge.
28:53
>> However, you want to guess how many
28:55
people are playing Fortnite right now? I
28:58
am go. Okay,
28:59
>> this is according to Fortnite GG, so I
29:00
have no idea, but I'm just going with
29:02
this.
29:04
>> Three million people.
29:05
>> Uh, it's way too many. Uh, 1.2 1.2
29:09
million people, which is still a lot.
29:11
>> No, no, that
29:14
>> which is a lot. Yeah. But what I find
29:16
interesting about this though is is uh
29:19
PUBG is still so huge, right? It is
29:22
still so big. But let's uh I in in 20
29:26
years
29:27
>> when we look back at these things, I
29:30
wonder if the general consensus will be
29:33
that Fortnite
29:35
created all of this stuff, that Fortnite
29:37
was the battle royale game. Do you know
29:39
what I mean? In the public view, of
29:40
course, people will be like, "No, no, it
29:41
was actually PUBG and then Fortnite took
29:42
and ran with it." But it's this thing,
29:44
right, about like who how will these
29:47
things be remembered in in perpetuity?
29:50
And I just wonder
29:51
>> if PUBG lives. Yeah. What's that?
29:55
>> I think I can already tell you. Um,
29:57
Peter, what was the first 2D platformer?
30:02
>> Uh, the first 2D platformer.
30:05
>> No, no, no, no, NO, NO. I CAN SEE the
30:07
reflection of your glasses.
30:08
>> Am I crazy if I say the first 2D
30:10
platformer is
30:13
>> uh, isn't it
30:16
>> Am I crazy if I said Isn't it like
30:17
Return to Castle Wolfenstein or
30:19
something like that?
30:20
>> Okay. Well,
30:21
>> not return. Yeah. Yeah.
30:23
>> What what I was trying to make happen
30:24
there was for you to say it's not Mario.
30:27
>> No, it's not Mario.
30:29
>> But I think that that is the I think
30:31
that that is the answer culturally.
30:34
>> Uh it is often this is according to
30:36
Google. Uh often considered space panic.
30:42
[laughter]
30:43
>> I have Dude, I have space panic all the
30:45
time. I think it's easy to imagine
30:49
somebody who is a video game pundant on
30:53
a show talking about 2D platformers and
30:56
saying, you know, Mario was really the
30:59
first of what we consider and recognize
31:02
to be like the 2D platformer. And I
31:04
don't think anybody would really fight
31:05
them on that. And I think that that's
31:09
kind of the thing that I'm zoning in on
31:10
here, right? is this idea of
31:14
that legacy and how you grab at it and
31:17
if a game award, if the game of the year
31:21
award can help you get that, if it can
31:25
if it can vault you into a place even if
31:29
it is undeserving. Yeah, I so I do have
31:33
feelings about that. First, I would like
31:34
to just point out my Wolfenstein answer.
31:38
[laughter]
31:39
I was misremembering. Castle Wolfenstein
31:41
is often considered one of the earliest
31:44
stealth games. I remember I remembered
31:46
something that it was early, so I
31:48
apologize for anyone who was like,
31:50
"Peter, what are you talking about? You
31:52
buffoon." That's where that comes from.
31:54
Thank you very much. Back to your
31:56
question. I don't know if it can happen
31:59
undeservingly. if it can if it can like
32:03
I don't know if if
32:05
like like if a game wins the Golden
32:06
Joysticks and uh the game awards and
32:10
whatever else like like uh Astrobot did,
32:13
right? I don't know if those things give
32:14
it the cultural relevancy.
32:17
Certainly, it gives them awards, but I
32:19
think you look at something like
32:20
Bolatro, which won uh the Game Developer
32:24
Conference Awards.
32:26
Um,
32:27
that is a game that did, I think, get a
32:30
lot of eyes on it and did cement its
32:32
place in culture with the nominations
32:35
and and everything else that it won
32:38
because it was a game that did not have
32:40
the biggest stage because it was not
32:43
made by Sony, right?
32:45
>> Do does that make sense? You know what I
32:47
mean by that?
32:48
>> Yeah, I do. Yeah.
32:52
>> I'm looking at this. I'm like looking
32:53
there are some like very clear like no
32:55
these are like so so mega iconic. I look
32:56
at like Balders's Gate 3 that is
32:58
something I think is going to um live on
33:01
for a long long time.
33:03
>> Yeah.
33:04
>> Um what do you think about like so the
33:06
Resident Evil 2 remake is on here and
33:09
this is a game that I find to be I think
33:11
it's an incredible 10 out of 10 video
33:12
game but I don't think it has that that
33:14
same staying power
33:17
as as a lot of these other
33:19
>> Yeah.
33:19
>> So I think this is interesting right?
33:21
It's like it's like I almost wonder is
33:23
there subtext to our conversation here
33:26
that the game awards and voting in the
33:29
game awards should do you think that
33:32
there is a degree to which maybe there
33:34
should be a you should be thinking about
33:36
this when you vote like thinking about
33:39
>> so that's actually a really really good
33:40
question right about this idea of when
33:42
you're making a game of the year list
33:44
are you like what perspective are you
33:47
trying to have is it your personal
33:49
favorite games is it the games that you
33:50
deem to be the best games. You know what
33:53
I mean? Cuz like like sometimes you play
33:54
a game
33:55
>> and you go like
33:58
I cannot speak to the quality of
34:02
like like Civ, right? But I know people
34:06
really like those games, but I'm like I
34:09
I guess I'm not the I'm not the guy for
34:11
this one, you know? And I'm sure I could
34:13
come up with a take on it or whatever,
34:15
but like, you know, if you're saying
34:16
like sitting down to make the best games
34:18
of the year and you don't put Civ on
34:19
there, I heard the last one was not very
34:21
good, but let's say it was great, right?
34:23
Um, if you don't put Civ on there, does
34:25
that should that count? Do that matter?
34:27
I think I think that's an interesting
34:28
question. And I think
34:32
I think you should go for what you just
34:35
what you genuinely believe is the most
34:37
important thing. If if you're going for
34:39
like the game awards or you're voting
34:41
for BAFTAs or whatever, I do think you
34:42
should go for what you believe is the
34:44
most important thing that happened that
34:46
year and usually I think that lines up
34:49
with your own tastes, but what do you
34:50
think? It's funny, right? Because I
34:52
think the the Game Awards is like this G
34:55
I I think largely the way that people
34:57
think about it is I am voting for the
35:00
game I liked the most.
35:01
>> Yeah. which might sound obvious and and
35:05
like, oh yeah, of course that's what it
35:07
should be. But I think that there has
35:09
been a
35:11
desire from people to have maybe a more
35:15
expertly or academic or some some kind
35:19
of an enhanced perspective that goes
35:21
beyond um just kind of like your opinion
35:25
about which one of the most popular
35:26
games was the one that you liked the
35:28
most.
35:29
>> Yeah. And I'm thinking a lot about this
35:32
is a little like even for me this
35:34
reference is like a little I'm like a
35:35
little embarrassed about it
35:37
>> but um there's this book called the
35:41
anxiety of influence.
35:44
>> Okay. and it's um Harold Bloom wrote it
35:48
and it's about um him he's a he's a poet
35:52
and he's talking about the anxiety of
35:54
influence the title in writing poetry
35:57
and in the book he talks about the poet
36:00
in the poet and he he says that like
36:02
this person is inspired to write by
36:06
reading another poet's poetry and then
36:09
will then produce work that is in danger
36:11
of being derivative of that poetry and
36:14
therefore weak because historically in
36:16
poetry people are really into original
36:20
vision. That's like the thing that
36:22
people are like, "Oh, they had such a
36:23
voice. They had such a vision."
36:25
>> And so the whole book is kind of about
36:28
this feeling of anxiety. Um that I think
36:32
is centered on like what lasts in
36:36
literature often has nothing to do with
36:39
what was celebrated in its own era. And
36:41
instead canon is shaped by what future
36:45
creators either steal from or try to
36:49
escape from.
36:50
>> Sure.
36:51
>> So, so like a lot of the conversations
36:53
we're having here, I think it's like
36:55
what do game designers site as appearing
36:58
in the DNA of their later work? And I
37:01
think like Dark Souls.
37:04
>> So, I hearing you talk about this, this
37:06
is something I wanted to bring up about
37:07
Saro. Takaro won the Game Awards in
37:10
2019. It also won the Steam Awards in in
37:13
2019 as well. And that is a game that I
37:16
find really interesting because I that's
37:18
one of my favorite games ever, but I
37:20
don't think it really has the same
37:22
cultural footprint as a lot of
37:24
FromSoft's other stuff. How but
37:26
culturally mechanically
37:29
it is probably one of the most important
37:31
games of the last 10 years because of
37:34
that whole parry thing. You know how
37:35
every video game is about parrying now?
37:36
every single one of them, no matter what
37:38
you're playing. If you're playing a
37:39
soccer game, oh, actually, you got to
37:40
learn how to parry. I'm playing Hollow
37:42
Knight Silk Song. Uh, actually big
37:43
moment. You learn how to parry.
37:45
>> 33.
37:45
>> Exposition 33 is a video game where it's
37:46
just like a h what if we just par it all
37:48
like
37:48
>> Yeah,
37:49
>> that I think is the is the really really
37:53
really big moment for that as a
37:55
mechanic. And now it is literally in
37:58
everything, right? Uh what was that
38:00
game? Uh it was a first-person shooter
38:02
that you were pairing in earlier that
38:04
people were mad about. Oh. Uh, uh, uh,
38:05
Doom, Dark Ages, you're parrying, right?
38:07
Like, like
38:08
>> it is inescapable in so many different
38:11
ways.
38:12
>> And so I find so to what you're saying,
38:14
and I think this applies to PUBG as
38:16
well, right, with the idea of like
38:17
creating the battle royale as it is
38:19
known in in the current like era, like
38:22
there are going to be games that people
38:25
cite as being really important that I
38:27
think might not be culturally as
38:29
important to fans of gaming and and
38:31
things like that.
38:33
>> Yeah. I I guess there's like a part of
38:35
me that it's funny like I think you
38:37
could hear our entire discussion here
38:39
and just be like, well, I hear
38:41
everything that you're saying, but I
38:42
think I actually do prefer that the Game
38:44
Awards are the game that I like the
38:47
most, even if it has no
38:49
>> footprint. Right.
38:50
>> Yeah. And and I think like
38:55
why like I don't know like I don't know
38:57
there's I think there's a version of
39:00
that in which the game award itself just
39:04
rewards the audience that the game
39:07
already has.
39:09
>> Yeah. That's that's how most awards are
39:11
though. Would you wouldn't you agree?
39:15
>> I think Okay. So, I think like in this
39:18
in this alternate world where we're
39:20
talking about kind of um this this
39:23
collection of canon in which the the
39:24
games winning these awards have this
39:26
huge footprint, I think that you end up
39:29
learning more about video games as a
39:33
medium and it becomes more historically
39:37
practical this way than like what am I
39:40
taking? Listen, I know what I'm taking.
39:42
But like, do you see how maybe seeing
39:45
like Astrobot on the list, it's like not
39:48
quite as connected to the surrounding
39:51
DNA of the medium?
39:53
>> Yes, 100%.
39:55
100%.
39:56
>> So, there's something there. There's I
39:57
don't feel particularly strongly about
39:59
this because I think instead of um I
40:02
think
40:03
>> I'm trying to position the game awards
40:05
as teaching us about games and I think
40:08
actually the game awards um aren't
40:11
teaching us about games, they're
40:12
teaching us about the people,
40:14
>> dude. They're teaching teach about the
40:15
audience.
40:16
>> Yeah.
40:17
>> Yeah. So So yeah. Uh then I want to I
40:20
want to turn our gaze to this year.
40:23
>> Okay. Um uh so far uh the Golden
40:26
Joysticks is the only award that has
40:29
from these major awards that has um that
40:32
has happened for 2025 and uh CLA exped
40:35
Claire obscure expedition 33 won that.
40:38
Um but when we look at uh you know the
40:40
the game of the year nominees for the
40:42
game awards I think that these are the
40:43
games that are going to be nominated in
40:45
those other places as well largely. I
40:46
think you're going to get some you know
40:47
I think Blueprints is going to get
40:48
something at one of these other ones.
40:50
Maybe BAFTAs. I don't know. Um, but like
40:52
you look at these and I go like yeah
40:54
these seem like they're going to be the
40:55
games that are nominated. So you got
40:56
Clear Obscure, you got Destiny on the
40:58
beat, two on the beach, a Don Kong
40:59
Bonanza, Hades 2, Hollite Silk Song, and
41:02
Kingdom Come Deliverance 2.
41:04
>> Yeah. And my question is this. Do you
41:06
think that any of these games have that
41:08
thing to them that make them stand out
41:12
as culturally relevant video games that
41:14
are that are going to stand time?
41:17
>> Okay, give me give me the list one more
41:18
time. Claire Obscure Expedition 33,
41:21
Death Stranding 2 on the Beach, Donkey
41:23
Kong Bonanza, Hades 2, Hollow Knight
41:27
Silkong, and Kingdom Come Deliverance 2.
41:30
Whoa. Okay, so obviously I think that
41:32
the easy answer here is Expedition 33.
41:36
Um, but I don't I think no. I think no.
41:40
I think in my heart I think no. Um,
41:42
>> I think some of these games are
41:44
excellent. I I think Hollow Night Silk
41:47
Song is
41:49
>> [ __ ] phenomenal.
41:52
>> That said, I have been surprised by its
41:54
lack of footprint and and oomph.
41:59
>> I think people like it, people talk
42:00
about it, but I I for the hype that was
42:04
surrounding it for years, when it
42:05
finally came out, it feels like there
42:07
was this sort of like
42:10
disillusion of pressure where it's just
42:11
like all like disappear and I was like,
42:14
"What happened? what happened to this
42:15
game? It's still great and people played
42:16
it the [ __ ] out of it for, you know, two
42:18
weeks when it came out and then now it
42:19
feels like I just haven't heard much
42:21
about it ever since. And so my answer is
42:22
I think Clare Obscure might.
42:25
>> That said, I think that
42:29
whatever that developer does next will
42:32
probably, if I had to guess, uh,
42:36
obfuscate this first one.
42:38
Wow, that's interesting. Okay. Because I
42:41
think like I'm trying to I'm trying to
42:43
ask myself, right, like in terms of
42:44
cultural footprint, in terms of what
42:47
people talk about when they talk about
42:49
game.
42:49
>> Yeah.
42:50
>> Um, Hollonate Silkong,
42:52
the weight,
42:54
>> when's it going to come out?
42:55
>> That that's thing that game has a
42:57
cultural footprint, but I think largely
42:59
it is unrelated to the game itself.
43:02
>> I agree. Um, and then there's like a uh
43:05
microwave reheated version of difficulty
43:07
discourse with Hollow Night Silk Song
43:09
that I think is another Yeah, I think
43:10
that that's part of that game. And then
43:11
I think the third talking point with
43:13
that game, Silkong, honestly, is uh that
43:16
it's great
43:17
>> and I don't think that that goes that
43:19
far. Yeah.
43:20
>> You know, it's great. It's really good.
43:23
Yeah.
43:24
>> I have tried writing about Hollow Night
43:25
Silk Song and even though I think it's
43:27
immaculate, I I'm having a difficult
43:29
time. I I put up a video about it um
43:31
literally today on Nebula and Patreon.
43:33
However,
43:35
>> um it is about culturally what the game
43:37
was and the weight for the game and and
43:39
that sort of stuff. It's not about the
43:40
game itself, which I think is is
43:42
interesting. I don't know. And not to
43:45
short change Claire Obscure, but I think
43:47
that the conversation about that game,
43:49
if I'm being completely intellectually
43:52
honest, is largely surrounding its
43:55
development team size agree and stuff
43:58
that it is kind of doing in a meta
44:01
context when you compare it to other
44:03
video games.
44:04
>> I would agree.
44:05
>> Yeah. So, um, yeah. So, it's tough. So,
44:08
then I I kind of like turn my gaze to
44:10
those other games, right? Do I think do
44:12
I think we're going to be referencing
44:13
the um environmental destructibility of
44:16
Donkey Kong? Like I I don't
44:18
>> I don't think that game when people
44:20
that'll be on lists of top 25 Switch
44:23
games to buy on Black Friday or for
44:26
Christmas like holiday gift guides,
44:28
right? You know, it'll be 17 on the
44:30
list,
44:31
>> you know, 21 on the list, which is fine.
44:33
It's It's a good game, but I'm I'm like
44:35
I don't know if it really is going to
44:37
hold up to time to being like this was a
44:40
[ __ ] important video game.
44:42
>> Yeah. It's funny. It's like all of the
44:44
not to just chop it up about video
44:46
games, but all of the the the big swings
44:49
in that game almost are contextual. It's
44:52
like, oh, this is a Donkey Kong game as
44:53
opposed to a Mario game. This is a this
44:55
as opposed to that. It's like they're
44:57
they're in the game itself. There's
44:59
there's not a lot there that I'm I'm
45:01
like, "Ooh, that's okay. Take note
45:04
everybody. They did something here that
45:06
I think is changing the way that we look
45:08
at what you can do in video games."
45:10
>> Yeah. No, I I completely agree. And so
45:12
when I look at these, again, I'm not
45:14
saying these are bad games necessarily.
45:16
I I didn't really like Donkey Banza, but
45:19
I'm not saying that like that they are
45:21
like, "Oh, these are terrible video
45:22
games that aren't going to be
45:23
remembered." I'm saying like in terms of
45:24
what these things were and what they
45:27
created,
45:29
I just don't really see much footprint
45:32
for these things for what those games
45:35
specifically were.
45:36
>> Yeah. I I mean I I almost wonder if
45:38
something like Peak is more in line with
45:44
>> 100%. I mean that that is a game that I
45:47
feel like defined this year um because
45:50
of its silliness and and and its warmth
45:53
and its its yeah 100%. I think Peak is a
45:56
great great uh call on that and I and I
46:00
think a lot of what that game what we
46:02
talk about when we talk about Peak is
46:04
derived from Peak and what you're doing
46:07
in the game, not from its context, not
46:09
from how it fits in to the larger
46:11
tapestry of video games.
46:13
>> 100%. 100%. And and to you know what
46:16
we're talking about like the idea of the
46:17
story of the development. It has a very
46:19
interesting story of its development.
46:21
Certainly that said that's not the thing
46:25
that people are talking about when they
46:26
like
46:27
>> it's funny. I actually don't.
46:29
>> If you were to review I don't even know
46:30
what you're talking about.
46:30
>> Oh you don't? Okay. So a little
46:32
background. It uh it was a game jam game
46:34
that that the Aggro Crab and um I'm
46:37
forgetting the other name. The other
46:38
developer um they were doing a game jam.
46:41
They're two indie developers and um they
46:44
put it together like it came together
46:46
from February until when that game came
46:48
out. They were like, "Wait a second,
46:49
this is pretty good." And then
46:52
it became what it became like instant
46:54
like overnight and and it was like, "Oh
46:55
my gosh, this thing is like such a big
46:57
mega hit." And I saw one of the people
46:59
from Aggro Crab talking about um how
47:01
frustrating it is because they worked
47:03
for a long time on that game, Another
47:04
Crabs Treasure,
47:06
>> which do do you familiar with? I I think
47:08
it's cute. I I like it.
47:09
>> Um They worked so long on that and then
47:13
Peak
47:15
was turned around and and was made and
47:17
kind of a as a as a joke, not joke, but
47:19
it's like, oh, this was just like a
47:20
silly kind of game jam thing and then
47:22
now it's the biggest thing, you know, in
47:25
gaming for for the whole year. But yeah,
47:26
I agree. I think that is a game that has
47:28
more of a cultural footprint than um
47:31
than than these, which is is surprising.
47:33
I think Clare Obscure like it has a big
47:36
cultural footprint, but I think it's
47:38
what we're what you're saying though is
47:39
like it's the the footprint has little
47:41
to do I think with the actual game
47:43
itself. Maybe it doesn't. I don't know.
47:46
I don't hate that.
47:47
>> I don't want to short change the
47:48
>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
47:49
>> Yeah. And I I don't want to short change
47:51
that game and the things that that game
47:52
achieves and and how much um people like
47:56
that game because it's like nobody's
47:58
nobody's out here saying Expedition 33
48:01
is not a good video game. That's not my
48:03
take at all.
48:03
>> Agreed. And I also think if any of these
48:06
are going to have that footprint in 5
48:08
years,
48:10
>> I think Expedition 33 is the most likely
48:13
to have to continue to have that.
48:15
>> Man, I I really see what you mean,
48:17
though, where it's it's the kind of game
48:20
that the next one makes the last one
48:22
irrelevant in the way that Expedition 33
48:25
made Metaphor Refantasio irrelevant.
48:28
>> Yeah. Did you uh I always find it
48:30
interesting when I play a game from a
48:32
studio and I'm like, "Oh, the next one
48:33
I'm really gonna like."
48:34
>> Yep. Yep. Yep.
48:35
>> This isn't a great one to one, but did
48:37
you play Stellar Blade?
48:39
>> Oh, absolutely not. No.
48:41
>> That game is is really interesting
48:43
because I don't think it's very good,
48:46
but I think that it is something where
48:48
I'm like, if the studio behind this like
48:51
learns from the lessons that this game
48:53
hopefully taught them, I think the next
48:54
one could be actually pretty good.
48:57
I I think it's kind of middling, but I
48:58
think that like that in playing it, I
49:00
think that the those pain points are
49:02
kind of obvious and I my hope is that
49:05
whatever I'm forgetting the name of that
49:06
team. Uh but whoever makes that shift up
49:09
maybe it don't matter. Um they'll be
49:12
able to say like, "Oh, here's how we fix
49:14
this. Here's how we make this this
49:16
better."
49:18
>> I think I think you get that out of out
49:19
of scare, too.
49:22
There are a couple of like indie games
49:23
from this year that I'm like I would
49:26
love if these
49:29
really did um get big enough to the
49:33
point that they did project influence
49:35
into the future. I'm thinking about Baby
49:38
Steps and Consume Me, which I think
49:42
>> both do the same thing, which is kind of
49:45
the it's it's um something we were
49:48
talking about with with God of War. I
49:50
think it's this um authoral perspective.
49:52
I think that there's a there's like an
49:54
individual that they're trying to like
49:56
really place you in. And I don't know,
49:59
there's like I I wonder if that could
50:02
ever something like that could ever blow
50:04
up to the point that that is what's
50:05
important to people to the point that
50:07
you're seeing these games get produced
50:10
that are like almost bringing attention
50:14
to the authoral hand that makes them in
50:17
a way that is not this is a Sakurai or a
50:19
Cojima game.
50:20
>> Yeah. Yeah.
50:21
>> Yeah. I agree.
50:24
Jake, can I tell you about the critical
50:26
error nation,
50:27
>> please? Every single week, Jake and I
50:30
chop it up for an additional hour,
50:34
>> hour 15, hour 30. My goodness. One time
50:38
we did two hours and 15 minutes.
50:42
And that's a bonus show. That's a bonus
50:44
show exclusive to the Critical Error
50:46
Nation, the people supporting us on
50:48
Patreon at patreon.com/critical
50:51
error. the $5 and up tier, those people
50:55
get that bonus show. Today was
50:57
interesting. We talked um about uh uh
51:00
the difference between this sort of like
51:03
perspective of like, oh, games
51:04
journalists don't like YouTube creators
51:06
and then YouTube creators don't like
51:08
games journalists. I thought it was kind
51:09
of an interesting conversation that we
51:10
had. And um we have all that and more
51:14
and more. Uh there we do an episode
51:16
every single week there as well. So, if
51:18
you're interested in getting more of us,
51:20
patreon.com/critical
51:22
error. I would also like to give a big
51:24
thank you to the members of the Jake and
51:26
Peter tier. This is the highest tier on
51:29
our Patreon, people who have so
51:30
generously opened up their pockets to
51:33
us. I'm talking about Evan Pon. I'm
51:37
talking about Renquir. I'm talking about
51:40
Ancel Trait. I'm talking about Evan
51:43
Snee. We have two Evans in the Jake and
51:46
Peter tier and they're going to have to
51:47
fight it out. It's I I I can't I I don't
51:50
want to see the bloodshed, but I
51:52
understand that there can only be one.
51:55
So, when you are leaving a comment on
51:57
this video, make sure to thank Evan,
51:59
make sure to thank Renquoire, make sure
52:01
to thank Anel, and make sure to thank
52:03
Evan. There's two Evans. Again, we
52:05
they're going to have to fight it out. I
52:06
don't know what to tell you.
52:08
Jake, I believe you've prepared a sound
52:09
effect though for the other members of
52:11
the critical error nation. Critical
52:13
error royalty.
52:14
>> Thank you for supporting the pod
52:17
royalty. HERE'S YOUR SOUND. HELLO, dear
52:20
listener. Please imagine with me two
52:22
teams. The first captained by Jake and
52:25
Peter tier members Evan Ponz and Renquar
52:28
consisting of James Pierre Reed, Jacob
52:31
Richter, Jared Kuseno, Sam Woods, and
52:33
Cole. This is team Wadd D. They are
52:37
facing off against Anel Trait and Evan
52:40
Snee. The captains with Connor Trul
52:42
Love, Andrew Bulkar, Danny Disaster, and
52:45
Sam Cedar. This is team Goomba in a game
52:49
of kickball. Which team is taking home
52:53
the W? Let me know in the comments
52:55
below. Thank you. And thank you for
52:57
supporting Critical Error. All right,
52:58
Peter, I'm pretty excited to hear what
53:00
you have prepared for us as we end uh
53:03
each and every podcast with a
53:04
pre-prepared piece. It is your turn this
53:07
week. Hit me with what you got.
53:11
>> [snorts]
53:13
>> I don't want to write about Fortnite.
53:16
It's the game I've played the most over
53:18
the past month or so, and I have
53:20
absolutely no thoughts about it. That's
53:22
the point. Life has been so stressful
53:25
and hectic between my finances and my
53:27
wedding and the holidays and family and
53:29
everything that when I get to the end of
53:32
the day, I just want to sit down and not
53:34
think, play something mindless, meet up
53:37
with Jake.
53:39
But something changed. When I started my
53:42
Fortnite addiction a few weeks ago, the
53:44
island it set on was themed after the
53:46
Simpsons. You could go to Moe's Bar and
53:50
the music shop and Burns Manor and Camp
53:52
Crusty and of course the Simpsons House.
53:54
And it was really fun. Something small
53:58
and silly to giggle about as I watch
54:01
Marge Simpson sing and dance to Sabrina
54:03
Carpenter songs.
54:06
Something small and silly to giggle
54:08
about as Itchy and Scratchy drive our
54:11
getaway car up a tree while Homer leans
54:13
out the window, spraying and praying
54:15
with an SMG.
54:17
I guess it just made me smile.
54:20
But it's gone now. The season or chapter
54:23
or whatever the hell Fortnite calls its
54:25
discrete installments ended and now
54:28
everything is different. We are not in
54:31
Springfield anymore, but are instead on
54:34
some island born out of Fortnite lore.
54:38
It's not quite as silly. It feels a
54:41
little different. It feels weird to be
54:44
playing as Marge or Flanders, running
54:46
around in a world that does not look
54:48
like them anymore.
54:50
Fortnite is still fun. It feels good to
54:53
land those hits with a sniper or to run
54:55
through an entire squad with dual
54:57
shotguns, but there's something about it
54:59
that's not quite what drew me to it when
55:02
everything was cell shaden and
55:04
Simpsonsified.
55:06
I guess that's just how live service
55:08
games go, right? Their content is
55:11
essentially a boat that's passing
55:12
through the harbor. It docks for a while
55:14
and then it goes off on to somewhere
55:17
else, probably never to be seen here
55:19
ever again. Kind of a don't cry because
55:22
it's over, a smile because it happened
55:24
thing, but
55:27
I I I don't know. I didn't have any
55:30
complex thoughts about Fortnite when it
55:32
was just Simpsons the video game. But
55:35
now that it's not that anymore,
55:38
it feels bittersweet. This game was
55:41
something I was relying on in the
55:42
smallest way, bringing me joy with its
55:44
absurdity, but it just ended. And now
55:48
it's gone. It turned into a different
55:50
game overnight, and I kind of wasn't
55:53
done with what it was. The little bits
55:55
of joy that I found in laughing at three
55:57
identical bananas sitting next to each
55:59
other on the Simpsons couch just
56:01
vanished.
56:03
It feels silly to be getting bummed out
56:05
by Fortnite. I don't know. I guess
56:07
people think it's a game for children,
56:08
which it is, but it was also a little
56:12
lighthouse for me. Something I didn't
56:14
know I needed. Something I didn't quite
56:16
appreciate the right way until it was
56:18
over. I miss Springfield, man. And I
56:22
wish Fortnite of all things didn't feel
56:25
the need to teach me a lesson about
56:26
permanence.
56:29
Thank you.
56:30
>> Oh my god. Thank you for sharing. Wow,
56:33
it's it's
56:34
>> I can't believe you wrote about
56:35
Fortnite.
56:36
>> Um I you asked me about it in our bonus
56:39
pod, patreon.com/critical error, and I
56:41
was like, I'm not going to write
56:42
anything about Fortnite, Jake. No, no,
56:46
no way.
56:47
>> You fooled me. Um yeah, it's so funny
56:49
because it like actually is um there's
56:52
so many conversations about like owning
56:55
games and like digital games and
56:57
physical games and and sometimes I think
56:59
about this kind of thing. I'm like,
57:00
"Wow, this is like
57:02
>> Yeah. And that's like part of the
57:04
experience that they are inflicting on
57:06
you is that it will go away." Like
57:08
that's
57:09
>> part of the game.
57:10
>> Yeah.
57:10
>> Yeah. And I still really like it, you
57:12
know? I still I still like the new
57:14
stuff, but there is something that is it
57:17
feels like fundamentally different. And
57:19
I It's just like less silly because it's
57:21
like there's the absurdity of like
57:23
>> it's so [ __ ] funny to see Marge
57:26
Simpson with an AK-47 in her house.
57:29
>> Yeah. You know what I mean? Like like
57:30
and yeah, you still get Marge is still I
57:32
still have Marge. I'm always gonna have
57:34
Marge, everyone. But like now that she's
57:37
like in a world that's just like this is
57:39
Fortnite land. I'm like oh I don't know.
57:42
I think what I like about Fortnite and
57:45
kind of what you're saying is that I
57:48
trust them to get me back.
57:52
>> I'm like certainly this we had a high.
57:54
Yeah. But we had a high and now it's
57:56
like okay now we're now we're simmering
57:58
and then something's going to happen.
58:00
Maybe uh Sponge
58:03
guy big pants Bob what? Whatever it is.
58:05
Spongebob guy big guy pants. Okay.
58:08
>> Spongebob. Yeah. Right. Spongebob guy
58:09
pants. Okay. Maybe that's the next the
58:11
next Hi. You're in the Krusty Krab.
58:13
You're Mr. Krabs has
58:16
>> that would be so
58:19
I'm actually in with that. Mrs. Puff.
58:21
Come on.
58:22
>> Mrs. Oh, Mrs. We're not talking about
58:24
this. All right. [laughter]
58:26
>> Oh, that's for sure. If they ever do
58:27
Spongebob, that's for sure an emote,
58:29
right?
58:29
>> That's a really good emote.
58:30
>> Or the imagination. Anyway,
58:32
>> oh my god. Anyways, this was um this was
58:34
a really fun episode for us, I think.
58:36
>> Uh chopping it up about chopping it up
58:39
about games more than we ever had and
58:42
then ending with a piece that was about
58:45
like a real experience playing a video
58:46
game.
58:47
>> Yeah. I don't know. I I
58:51
wish it was still there.
58:53
Yeah. Do you really?
58:54
>> I do. And I have these moments when
58:56
we're playing when we're like in a car
58:58
and I know we joke about it like there's
59:00
a big So they had the Springfield sign
59:02
of course in Springfield
59:04
>> and there's there's like a different
59:06
like Hollywood sign type sign in the new
59:09
Fortnite map and every time I see it
59:11
there is this like
59:13
thud in my heart.
59:16
>> It's like going back to your high school
59:17
but things are different. It it is where
59:19
you're like, "Oh, man. This used to be
59:21
the whole world, you know, and now it's
59:24
now it's different." I don't know. And
59:25
and like it's good. Fortnite's good,
59:28
guys. Like, it's it's really good, but
59:31
I don't know. I think what I liked about
59:33
it the most in our experience and what
59:35
you're talking about was less about the
59:37
inherent silliness and more about our
59:40
giving into the silliness.
59:42
>> Yes.
59:42
>> So,
59:43
>> exactly. Like a recent moment that we
59:45
had that I thought was like really fun
59:47
was this was um
59:49
>> last night we
59:51
>> just looked at
59:53
>> Oh the sunset. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We were
59:55
playing with uh a wonderful friend of
59:57
the pod, Christian MSAS, and him and I
1:00:00
are literally sitting on top of the car
1:00:02
that Jake is driving. And Jake is
1:00:04
driving to the sunset like to like we're
1:00:06
on a cliff and he just like pulls over
1:00:08
and we're like we all just sit down on
1:00:10
the edge of the cliff and just like
1:00:11
watch the sun as it sets and there this
1:00:14
moment where we're like sitting there in
1:00:15
silence just like [laughter] observing
1:00:18
the beauty of Fortnite. [snorts]
1:00:20
I'm Venom. [laughter]
1:00:22
Jake is what? Probably. Who were you
1:00:26
last night? I mean, any number of
1:00:27
characters. Peely. Yeah. You Peely.
1:00:30
Christian is one of the the weird
1:00:32
Fortnite skins for for sweats and like
1:00:35
[laughter] and and we're just observing
1:00:38
the beauty of of the sun setting and
1:00:40
we're like, "Wow. [snorts] Wow. I don't
1:00:42
know if we're ever going to capture this
1:00:43
moment again." That's a thing. That's a
1:00:46
thing. It's like It's like, "Wow." And
1:00:47
and that moment would not happen with
1:00:50
everybody I was playing with. So there's
1:00:52
something like
1:00:53
>> Yeah. You buy into it as a game and and
1:00:57
as what you said like the inherent
1:00:58
silliness of it
1:01:00
>> that our personalities and
1:01:02
>> Yes. Exactly.
1:01:03
>> Yeah.
1:01:04
>> Yeah. Because of course it's funny to
1:01:05
watch, you know, whatever serious
1:01:08
character Leon Kennedy dance to a Gracie
1:01:12
Abrams song. That's funny. That's silly.
1:01:14
But there is just the level of like
1:01:16
we're all just sitting there in silence
1:01:18
watching the sunset going, "Wow." and
1:01:20
then it was gone and we were like, I
1:01:22
guess we got to get up.
1:01:23
>> But there's so much to Fortnite as
1:01:25
opposed to other multiplayer games, I
1:01:27
think, about like your personality
1:01:29
bleeding through the game because we now
1:01:31
have like a sense of what the other one
1:01:33
is going to how they're going to play,
1:01:35
what they're going to do. There's like
1:01:36
jokes between us. It's like we we we we
1:01:39
come across like a car.
1:01:42
>> Jake wants Jake wants that car.
1:01:44
>> Like guys, what if we got in the car?
1:01:45
>> Yeah.
1:01:47
>> It's good. It's good. But it but there
1:01:49
is like this like little bit of sadness
1:01:50
when I play cuz I'm like I don't know. I
1:01:52
don't know what that Simpsons Fortnite
1:01:54
was for me. But whatever it was, it is
1:01:56
not that anymore.
1:01:57
>> Of course. Of course. Because our
1:01:59
calling like our siren call when we were
1:02:01
playing Fortnite for the past month was
1:02:04
one of us texting the other,
1:02:07
>> right? Are we going to Are we dropping
1:02:08
it? Are we visiting Camp Crusty? Are we
1:02:10
going to Burns?
1:02:11
>> Yeah.
1:02:12
>> A place that was familiar to us.
1:02:14
[laughter]
1:02:15
>> Um
1:02:16
Yeah. But but but then it's funny too
1:02:18
like the idea of like writing about
1:02:20
Fortnite is so weird cuz I'm like I'm
1:02:21
not going to I can't like I don't have
1:02:22
anything to say about it is just like a
1:02:24
just a good time. I don't have anything
1:02:26
complex to say about it. But then I was
1:02:28
thinking about why it's not that it
1:02:30
hasn't been hitting but why it has been
1:02:32
hitting a little differently. And I'm
1:02:33
like oh it's because it was this thing
1:02:36
and it's not this thing anymore. And now
1:02:39
I'm sad because Fortnite
1:02:42
was like hey Peter remember nothing
1:02:45
lasts forever, huh? And I'm like, gosh,
1:02:46
why are you doing this Fortnite?
1:02:48
>> That's that is insane. And much like
1:02:51
Simpsons Fortnite, this podcast cannot
1:02:54
last forever. But
1:02:56
>> if you want it to last a little bit
1:02:57
longer, just a reminder,
1:02:58
patreon.com/critical error, $5 will get
1:03:01
you this week's bonus pod. This bonus
1:03:03
pod is the most we have ever done a
1:03:06
bonus pod that felt like a normal
1:03:08
episode. So, if you want your Critical
1:03:11
Error content to continue, everybody's
1:03:13
getting cozy, getting ready for a sweet,
1:03:15
sweet holiday break. Um, go check that
1:03:17
out. patreon.com/critical error. $5 a
1:03:20
month. Just give it a taste. Give it a
1:03:21
taste. Give it a
1:03:23
>> You can do it for one month and then and
1:03:24
say like, actually, I'll get
1:03:26
>> No, nobody. No, no, it won't. They won't
1:03:29
do it, though. They'll get
1:03:30
>> That is how confident I am in the
1:03:32
quality of the bonus pods. So, please
1:03:35
head on over there. $5. $5. cuz I'll see
1:03:38
you on the other side. Thanks for
1:03:40
watching. Bye.