Latest / The Daily Writer / Pricing Strategies to Increase Your Rates with Paul Klein

Transcript

Pricing Strategies to Increase Your Rates with Paul Klein · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For more resources, including your free Daily Writer Starter Kit, visit DailyWriterLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Many of my writer friends not only create their own content, they also do client work such as editing, writing articles, or ghostwriting books.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And as you probably know, I'm a full-time ghostwriter myself.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to share this conversation with Paul Klein, who's a business consultant and entrepreneur and host of the Pricing as Positioning Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: From his days as a 1980s hairband guitarist, he's been a lifelong entrepreneur.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: He has experience starting and scaling a successful software as a service company, as well as consulting with some of the biggest brands in the world, including Target, Neiman Marcus, Starbucks, Holiday End, and other global brands.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Paul helps consultants, freelancers, and solopreneurs price their services and stop undercharging so they can build their seven plus figure businesses.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's got your attention, then you're definitely in the right place because Paul is an amazing guy.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: He and I have a lot of mutual friends, but it was great to finally meet him in person over the summer when he was a guest speaker for the Empire Builders Mastermind meeting, which was in Franklin, Tennessee back in June.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So Empire Builders is a mastermind that I'm a part of.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's led by my business and writing coach, Honore Corter.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like Paul, Honore knows a ton of people.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was finally great to get to meet Paul in that really cool context.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in this conversation here on today's episode, I get to ask Paul all my questions related to pricing strategies that can help us increase our rates as writers.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you're going to learn the best ways as a service provider to increase your income and use price anchoring to set the conversation about your rates.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Every writer can increase their revenue rates and engagements when we implement the simple pricing strategies that Paul talks about.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, before we get to the conversation, I want to let you know that Paul is also the founder of visible.tv.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like Netflix for entrepreneurs.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is a streaming service that features docuseries, interviews with entrepreneurs, live streams, visible TV University, and much more.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a special code in the show notes that you can use to get seven days of Visible TV free.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure and take advantage of that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really something cool.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: With that said, let's get to my conversation with the amazing Paul Klein.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Paul, I'm so thrilled to have you here on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: We met a few weeks ago at Honore Quarter's Empire Builders Mastermind event in in uh Franklin, Tennessee.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really fun to meet you in person.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for being here on the podcast virtually.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me, Kent.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Honored to be here.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yes, honorary is great.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we were technically friends on Facebook for many years.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm pretty sure, yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, but it's always better to meet people in person.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like I like that better.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've been following your journey with Visible TV for the last probably at least year or so.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've that's been up and running for quite a while, hasn't it?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it it the idea was launched in October um September, October of last year.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Last year we've got a couple of years.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we started talking about it in October.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're almost up on a year.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, we just launched in January.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh hasn't quite been that long, but it does feel like it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I know there's uh an absolute ton of work that goes on behind the scenes to produce something that's so high quality.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh also I know you're filming these in person, so you're probably doing a lot of traveling and lots of other crazy things that are involved in a really high quality production like this.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, glad to have you here.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about our conversation.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to have you on today because we do have a lot of people in our audience who are doing client work, whether it's ghostwriting, editing, freelance work, developmental editing, whatever the case might be.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing that as well as my listeners probably are already aware of.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when you did that session at Honore's event, I really loved your thinking about pricing strategies.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it really impacted me.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to dive into some of that here today because I think that's going to be really valuable to our listeners as well.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let me start out with this question.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is the number one mistake that limits most writers' income?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's not limited just to writers, but to people doing client work as well.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I know you talk about this this really critical mistake.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And can you give us some uh some guidance with this?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, number one uh absolute thing that will hold you back from those higher rates and the and the revenue that you want is hourly billing.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh everybody in the expertise space, whether they're doing client work or consulting or any anything where you're getting paid for what's in your mind, um, the first mistake they make uh is they start talking about what their hourly rate is.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that immediately ties your clients and equates uh the value in your in the client's mind to uh being just a doer, a tasker, a uh, you know, a uh uh you know, a um what do they call it, a commodity basically, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and not really positioning you as a true expert tease or expertise uh tease practitioner of your craft.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting as far as away can uh you can from billing by the hour.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um hourly billing was invented in the you know late 1900s by the legal profession.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it might even be in the 1800s.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've gone through a couple of century turns here, yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it was way back by the legal profession.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh and then with the uh advent of the industrial revolution, um, you know, and the factory, you know, Ford and everything off of that all developed, that all you know was very conducive to the factory um and uh hourly billing concept.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look at today's information age and where we are in the information revolution or the creator revolution, as we like to call it, um, you think things have changed a bit where hourly billing might not be as conducive.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: You think things have advanced enough?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I like to teach is you know, the the quicker you can get away from that, because um two things can't it puts a cap on the amount of um income you can you can uh make in a day.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're charging a thousand dollars an hour, you work, you work um eight hours a day, that's eight thousand dollars.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're providing your client fifty or a hundred thousand dollars in value, you know, you should be able to make 18 grand a day or 28, you know, or whatever.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then the second thing is it automatically puts you at odds with your clients.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you have this.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I will I know our your crowd and and the people, the circles we run in, Kent, we're ethical, and and we wouldn't ever do anything like this, but it there's a subliminal thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: If I take longer to do this, I'm gonna make more money.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then your clients have the converse of the opposite of that is I want you to hurry up and get it done because it's gonna cost me more money.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it puts you at odds with your clients immediately.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when you can move to a value-based pricing and focusing on value and the outcomes of your clients, boom, your um your rates will increase and your clients will be happier, and it's just so much better place to be.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say someone is very motivated to move toward what you would call value-based pricing as opposed to hourly.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that as you talk with people, does the psychology of the person offering the services how how much does that play into going toward more of a value-based pricing uh model?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess what I'm asking is, is there an element to where we need to just have more value of ourselves?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to be confident we are worth what we're charging in order to do that.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Alan Weiss says it best, you know, the first sale is to yourself.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't believe in your products and services, neither will your clients.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you you may want to charge$10,000 for a consulting or a writing package, but in your heart, and if and if if your mindset is such that you only think you're worth$1,500 or a thousand, you're never going to hit that$10,000.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about getting over on your clients or or just trying to use some uh, you know, um uh uh you know, ninja mind trick on your clients.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really truly shifting that concept from selling to your own wallet to looking and serving your clients in the best that you can and what the value of your service brings to that client.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the gentlemen I learned from and love, Blair Enns, in the book Pricing Creativity, he was on my podcast.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: He talks about uh pricing your your um pricing the client, not your service.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so what you charge client A, which might in my case, I've worked with Starbucks and uh your Yum brands and Cracker Barrel.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've worked with a lot of Fortune 500 brands.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: What I charge them is way different than what I charge a mom and pop.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with mom and pops um in my local town, and the value is different from a Fortune 500 company to a mom and pop that just has a single coffee shop.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I when I go into that type of uh an expertise consulting position, I I look at the client and I don't sell my wallet, but I look at the value I I bring.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I might be doing the same service for the Fortune 500 as I'm doing for the um mom and pop, but I'm looking at the value to the mom and pop, and I know, okay, I'm not gonna be able to charge a six-figure contract with them because it's just not that's not it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: But but there is value to be uh to to provide there.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, and if my service is good fit, then um then the then it then we move forward.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, I always my podcast used to be called Pricing is Positioning, and your pricing does position you for those higher rates, and it all starts with your mindset and um you know you're not selling to your own, not selling to your own wallet and making sure you um you uh are looking at your client's value uh first.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that that should it should always be a part of our, I guess what I would call our client portfolio, where all things being equal, we have some high-ticket clients who can really afford, you know, that they they can afford it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we are adding great value to their business or whatever it is that we're doing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's also an element to where we do things for people who we're we're adding value to them, but it's a different pricing level.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe even we're doing pro bono work.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, I'm doing um, it's not ghostwriting, I'm doing editing and uh some book design stuff for a pastor who, you know, they work at a really small church.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way they could afford my services if I was gonna be charging them for that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm doing kind of a one-off project is just a pro bono thing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you find that it's helpful to have kind of a mix of things in our client portfolio like that?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that you know, it's good to have a variety, and I and I've done uh and do pro bono work too.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, sometimes it's just the right thing to do, the right situation, somebody you want to help, you know, if you've been blessed um and have the margin, and that's the nice thing about once you you do you do achieve those higher rates, you have more financial and time margin so you can take on some pro bono.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And usually what I do is I'll say, I'll take one or two pro bono clients per month, you know, and anything above that I have to, you know, decline or say, hey, maybe in a couple months we'll have an opening.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, having having a variety is good, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't so much look at what your clients can afford, whether it's the pro bono person or you know, the million dollar uh person that wants to, you know, or or if Oprah comes to you, look at what the value is that your service is gonna provide them.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if whatever pain point you're solving, in your case, um, Kent, you're a ghostwriter.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if Oprah comes to you and you know, and and and you know that that book is gonna make her millions of dollars, your fee is gonna be closer to that value that you're helping her achieve.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Even though she could afford, you know, even a$25,000 book, she's not gonna pay that for a ghostwriter.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: She's gonna pay, you know, high six figures because that book's gonna make her multi-millions.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so same thing on a scale-down level.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: You might have a client that's um uh, you know, that that your book's gonna help them increase their um coaching practice, you know, because it's gonna bring more authority and they're gonna get, you know, 10 more coaching clients per year based on this book.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, and and look at that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are they charging for the coaching?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if we get them 10 more clients per year, what does that what's that number look like?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now we can position our our fee closer to those gains.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: That totally makes sense.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, Oprah, if you're listening, I'm always available for a conversation.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna put that out there for whatever it's worth.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You never know who listens to your podcast.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Law of attraction.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, one thing that I'm curious about, and and I think a lot of our listeners who are doing client work are curious about this as well is how do you know what to charge for your services?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, in my line of work, for example, with ghostwriters, there are super inexpensive ghostwriters.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Then there's, like you mentioned, super expensive ghostwriters on the high six figures, and maybe I'm sure there's ghostwriters who get uh over a million dollars for per project.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know any of those people personally, but I'm sure they're out there.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: In the range of things, how how do we know where to position ourselves along that that kind of pricing continuum?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: How do we know the value that we're bringing to the marketplace?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think uh I've gotten this question a lot of different verticals, and my answer is the same because success principles are transferable, okay, as a good friend Dan makes it say.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and that is um when you focus on the value to your client, it doesn't matter what the market will bear, uh matters what everybody else is doing.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you have a relationship with that person and you're bringing that value to that person.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, price the client, not your service.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're bringing and and and to kind of give you some numbers to help you with that, I mean, certainly you know in your industry, okay, things range from 15 grand to 100 grand for this type of service.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can start there as just kind of a benchmark, but don't stay there.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the client and the and the value you're bringing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not uncommon in the consulting circles to um to get a um a 10, 20, and even higher, up to 40% of what um uh uh fee for um your service if it's gonna gain them um you know uh additional revenue or cost savings.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you have a solution that will give a revenue gain of$100,000 or cost savings of$100,000.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a$100,000 value that your solution or expertise will provide.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: 10% and even 20% of that, so it's 10 grand to 20 grand of that 100 grand um increase in revenue to that client is is a very reasonable um fee.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know about you, Kent, but I would I would give you 20 grand right now if you can make me a hundred.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just play on a stock market.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that and when you think in that count kind of aspect, like investing and ROI and things in the business space and um and especially for ghostwriters, and that's what I love about our friend uh Nick Pablitis, who's absolutely you know, you know, he's a great guy.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: He talks about the same thing.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's all about where do you want to be in three years and and what are those what are those things that you can achieve in your business that the book's gonna help you?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when you when you do that, that's now your fee can be closer to that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's a that's a fifty thousand dollar um gain in coaching or or credibility, whatever it is, then 10 to 20 percent of that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: If it's 500,000, 10 to 20 percent of that is a great place to uh it's a great margin, you know, it's it's a very easy sell.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the way that you're talking about this because so oftentimes with client work, it's easy to just say, well, this is what I charge, and and this is just what I charge, and there's no more thought put into it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love the way that that you're giving us a different way to think about this, which is which is adding more value to people and and pricing according to that value instead of just having a hard and fast price that we just have.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the key to value-based pricing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what about what about listing information on our website?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't have my pricing listed on my website in terms of ghostwriting, but I know other ghostwriters do.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: What what's your take on uh if we should list pricing on our website and how much information we should give?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, generally I don't recommend it for expertise-based, higher-end, high-ticket consulting, you know, or or high-ticket ghostwriting or writing as this crowd would would know to be.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's you that's the more, or another way to say it is the more time and sensitive, time sensitive, or the more involvement that it takes you, the the less likely that price should be on your webpage.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's your that's your premier product, that's your high end or your high ticket, and and you want to have that conversation because it it it doesn't do any good just to have say, oh, I'm I'm I charge fifty thousand dollars for everybody.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, get in, you know, it's all about a relationship at those levels, and people don't just click buy now, unless you're Elon Musk with Twitter, but that's a whole and but then you back out.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I changed my mind.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, buyers remorse.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But most people aren't gonna buy those, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say high ticket, I mean generally anything uh five figures or above, you know, um is is is very high ticket uh in most circles.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And some people would say more than$2,500.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: But at any case, those kinds of you know, five,$10,$15,$20,000 packages generally aren't gonna just get a click and buy.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a relationship.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So don't put them on uh your webpage.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you have productized services or things that are um, you know, online courses, masterminds, e-products, you know, absolutely you you've got to have those on there.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's having a good balance of products and services to help round out your income stream.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But your higher end expertise-based products, the only time I wouldn't recommend you do that on your webpage, but the only time I might say that is if you're so busy that you can't keep up with any work, then what you might do is is on your webpage under your high ticket, say I high ticket, you say ghostwriting services, minimum level of engagement is 50,000.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what that'll do is that at least get the tire kickers and the look key loose from calling you and and bottom down.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if you get too busy, then you can take that off and and open up your uh you know, your uh your sign, your uh your online form or whatever, but all about relationship and um and um and conversations at this level.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I want to follow that up um with the question about okay, what happens when when you want to add some different options for your pricing?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard you talk about this before.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think this is a really interesting concept, particularly for people who are doing things like ghostwriting or editing uh freelance writing, because uh for me it has been easy to get locked into okay, I have I have kind of one thing that I do, I do a book for you, and it has a specific price to it, and that's kind of it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I've heard you talk about the importance of having three different pricing options.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: How would that work specifically for something like ghostwriting?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are there some specific things that that I would remove out of that or add into it that would create just a better overall system for both me and the client?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's um, you know, for those who have not heard of Goldilocks pricing or good, better, best pricing, you see all the brands doing it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you go to the car wash, you've got the basic, the deluxe, and the supreme.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they come out and all the foam comes on, you know, you get all the extra, you know, the laser lights and all that stuff.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and so all the brands do it.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: You you go to Southwest, you have Wanna Get Away and Business Select, you've got three options.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: You go to McDonald's, you've got, you know, so all of that works, and it all is based in what's called behavioral economics or um pricing psychology.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not, you know, again, it's not about getting over on the clients, it's about empowering your clients to make the best value decision for them.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and when you give your clients pricing um options, the um conversation in your client's mind becomes, you know, not if I'm gonna work with Kent, but how I'm gonna work with Kent.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a very big shift.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you just give a single price, I'm gonna do a ghostwriting book for$15,000.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a guy giving them an ultimatum.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: They uh, you know, your clients need context, they gotta be able to compare.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you you know?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you go to buy something, you go on Amazon and you compare.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You look at the, you know, the shoes here, you go over to JCPenney's or whatever, and you you compare cars, we're comparing.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so you gotta have uh comparison.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the pricing options give your clients that comparison, and now they're comparing your pricing options and they're not searching your competitors, okay.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a that's a powerful shift in your favor.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then what you do is you take credit for things you're already doing.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with so many people, and they're they're uh they do a lot of things um in all their their services, um, but they're but they don't take credit for them.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of them might be a guarantee.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: We had a great conversation with um Teresa McCloy, I think's probably a friend of yours, and um and um and Dan about guarantees and and um and uh and and if you know if most of us, if we have a an upset client, we're probably either gonna do whatever we can to make it right, or if it's it's all gone to heck in a handbasket, we're probably gonna give them a refund.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, take credit for that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you have more favorable uh refund on your higher options.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and what I mean by pricing options, I need to talk about this first and I'll get into a little more detail.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you want to have that high anchor, your first class Bentley, you know, just like the airlines, first class with a steak dinner and a glass of wine when you get on, you get on the plane first.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: You got to have that service.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: So in a ghostwriting space, that is direct access.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To Kent, uh, you know, 10-minute email returns.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can call me on the weekend except Sunday.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can text me, you get you get access to my cell number, and I'm gonna work with you one-on-one.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be a priority client.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's my best service.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna get everything I got, and we're gonna make you successful.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then the next tier down is maybe your mid-tier option.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, maybe they don't get your cell phone number.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, maybe it's email only, or may and and maybe um the response times are seven days and not immediate, not 24 hours.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the book is uh produced less fast, you know, than uh than the first one.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then the low option and is your basic one, no sell.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they work with a junior writer and you just kind of oversee it, and um, and that uh you know is is no direct access to you.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: You have a project manager that they deal with.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's the uh sitting in uh row 32 on Southwest and C in the center seat, you know.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and for some people, that's that's all they want, and and that's all they care about.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so giving those three options um is really empowers, uh, puts the puts the value into your your client, and then they can look at which one of those works best for them.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then here's the other really good piece about this, Kent is whenever I coach people on using these pricing options, is have that low option be the price that doesn't feel icky, that feels like you're like if you were gonna bid them fifteen thousand dollars and you feel like that's that was like a good price for this client after you've had the conversation, that should be your low option.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, then have a you know a middle option and a super high deluxe Bentley option on top of that, where you feel like, man, I I don't think I could ever charge that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what that'll do is you as you do that over time with your clients, you'll slowly crawl up that uh value ladder.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in a few months, and even sooner, you'll be looking back.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I go, I can't even believe I didn't charge.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm charging instead of 15, I'm charging 25 every time, you know, and it and it just kind of shifts and um and it allows you to to play that value game with your clients without feeling icky because you have that low option that you know that'll probably work, but it stretches you a little bit, um, you know, to get to climb those rates and help you get over those mental mental barriers.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because until someone pays you, you know,$25,000 for a book or or 90 or whatever it is, until you get that one, once you get that one client, then it's like the floodgates open.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now you know you can do it because you've done it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, this is really, really fascinating.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking about a couple of things recently that are confirming all the things you're talking about, not in terms of ghostwriting, but like we went to through the car wash three or four days ago.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, took my wife and we were just out kind of doing some errands, and we went to the car wash, and we go up, and it's one of those super fancy new ones, and they of course have three options like you're talking about.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And there was something inside of me that was like, I don't care what's included in the high one, I'm not gonna pay for that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like my dad, is I'm channeling my father, you know, like I'm not gonna pay for all this stuff.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I but I didn't want the cheap one because I was like, well, maybe that won't get the car that clean.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I picked the middle one.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't there is there an element to this where there is a segment of people who will always pick the middle option in it?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter what what they're buying, they're just kind of middle option people.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's called extremeness aversion, and that's another term comes from uh behavioral economics.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, extremely aversion.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So our clients and ourselves, we all do this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: We want to avoid the extremes.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't want to buy the low one because we don't want to be cheap.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to buy the high one because we don't want to pay too much.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So 80% of the time, your clients will land in that middle option.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's usually what I do is I usually target my uh clients to that middle option.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, and I'll tailor, I'll like that's the sweet spot, that's where I want them to go um to really get them.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the the package I think will serve them the best at the best rate and everything, and then I'll throw that low option in in case they just like they can't swing that, but I want to give them you know something that they can do, but it's not gonna be as involved anyway.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, about 80% of the time.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that middle option is what most people will take.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the other day I had one and I um I did three options, and um, I was gonna my high option was gonna be$35,000.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so this was a project out in California for my consulting business.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know what?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to drive them to that middle option.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And the middle option I think was 20 or 25.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like the 35 to 25 was too close.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I bumped the the 35 to 45.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thought, you know, okay, if they take it, I can bring in another team member, you know, it'll make it a little easier for me, but yeah, I doubt if they'll take it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's too high, you know, it's too high.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, they're gonna pick that middle option or the low option.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Low option, I think, was fifth uh 10 or 15, and then uh 20, 25, and then I shot it up to 45.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Lo and behold, they took the 45 without even asking.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I'm now I'm you think I'm gonna serve them well.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I got another 10 grand of margin in there, and so it doesn't always it always sometimes it works in your favor in terms of they actually take the high option.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you had never offered that because you're only doing a single price, you would have never got that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's how we grow.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't it important also for for those of us doing client work to remember that not everybody is a cheapskate?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: There, there is a segment of people who it doesn't matter what it is, they always want the very best of whatever it is.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like we're just trying to extract more money from them.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's that's what they're gonna be happiest with.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: They want the nicer thing.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And some people just like to have bragging rights in a sense that I got the nicest thing, or it's gonna make their life easier, or whatever it is.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, so we're almost like doing a disservice to people if we don't offer that Bentley option as you refer to it.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes more what's more important to people is status, you know, and you and you may read a guy, he's a or a gal, you know, I was gonna say a pickup problem, but she could be driving a pickup or blue jean and pickup kind of gal or girl, meaning uh very blue collar, doesn't appear to but if you read The Millionaire Next Door, yep, they may be the type of person that's very wealthy because they make good decisions and they see your solution as uh something that can fix their pain point, they're gonna pick, they've got the margin, uh the money to invest, and boom, they're gonna pull that trigger on that.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they and they probably drive, they probably ride first class, even you know, some of those millionaires.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to ask you a question about proposals, and then I I want to also ask you about some things that you're working on now that you're really excited about because they're really, really cool.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to hear about these.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: But something I've heard you mention before is this idea of doing a single page proposal, which I had never really heard of before.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, talk about that if you can and why that's important and and what we should cut out of a of a longer proposal and and do with that information.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was uh there was a jam study back in the I think it was the early 2000s out in the Bay Area, and um, and they uh they they they put 26 uh jellies out on uh on a Tuesday, Thursday.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um they were very careful, time of day, time of year, demographic, um, you know in a series of uh of um markets in the Bay Area.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, and so they found that when you had 26 um uh jellies offered, their sales plummeted.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember the percentage.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it was more than 50, it was like 40 or 50 percent.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: When they only had six, their sales skyrocketed.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and what happened is it it's it's it's called choice overload.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you give too many choices or you you you uh confuse your prospects, I mean, we're all moving at the speed of light, you know.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh, you know, you need a you need a simplified uh website, single call to action, you know, the whole store uh Don Donald Miller story brand kind of concept, you know, make it easy, easy for people to come to your website and and um and uh buy from you.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And same thing with your proposal.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your your proposal, you know, if it's 45 pages long, and and I don't know if you you've been on the other side of procurement like I have, Kent, but I've you know, we get 25 proposals, we've got an RFP going out for a huge project.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, first thing we do, we got these buying in the old days it was binders, and we we flip to the back page of the where the pricing sheet is, and um, and then make our decision.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, they had they had resumes and all this fluff in there.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody cares about all that, you know, and it all it does is confuse your client.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So use a one-page proposal with simple bullet items and the price, put your high anchor on the left, you know, always say uh say, let them hear or or say or see your high anchor on the left.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: We read left to right, put that high anchor on there, the the bullet points of the outcomes that you're gonna provide that they're seeking by your service.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they look at that one page, it'll set you apart from everybody else.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: They'll go, oh wow, this is super simple.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like option two.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, great.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'll send you over a contract.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now in your contract, you can put all your disclaimers and qualifiers and you know, you know, more more uh more specific payment terms.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will put the payment terms in the single page option.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing I encourage.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um on my low option, my low priced, you know, um economy, what is it, want to get away seat.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I will require a hundred percent up front.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then maybe on the middle option, I'll have a 50-50 payment option.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then on my high option, I'll have something more favorable to the client.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say only 25% down, and then we'll bill on a net 30 over the next you know, two months, six months, whatever the duration of the contract is.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the payment turns as they go up that as they pay more, the payment terms become or the the payment terms become more favorable to them.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: If they want that low budget off offering, then the payment uh terms become more favorable to me.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are a lot of different ways you can you can craft that and and play around with it to see what resonates with your your client base.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is really, really good.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never thought about listing the pricing options left to right.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying kind of like just in a column and put the high one on the left, and that's fascinating.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we read left to right.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: So same thing on your webpage.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I go to somebody's webpage, first thing I do is I look at it on mobile, because most people will look it up on mobile, and nine times out of ten, the low option will come up first.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just reverse it, make make your your mobile optimized so your high option could so they see the big three thousand or thirty thousand dollar package.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then uh, you know, or whatever it is you're selling.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it probably went 30,000, but you know, if it's a you say you're selling an online course for$50,$250, and$950.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the$950 should be the first number they see because that anchors the value in their mind.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and they'll be um, you know, then they'll get they'll get down to that$50 one and go, oh, I can afford that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then boom, that you got a sale.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this would also apply to so I lead a membership community called the Daily Rider Club.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So this strategy would also apply to that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like currently it's$47 a month to be a part of that.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I could have a lower option that maybe is just it's just the calls, it's not part of the community or the content.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Then what would you include in as far as a community?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: What would you include as far as like a higher option?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Would it be one-on-one calls, maybe some coaching stuff like that?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: All of all of the above.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, don't you also um three options is always a um is like the sweet.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's Goldilocks or good, better, bad.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good place, but you don't always have to have like with visible TV, we only have two options.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: So two options will work too, and two options is better than one.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and with I found with membership sites and kind of those kind of products, two is is good.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's what you could do.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could have a uh you could simply have your current um uh membership at where it is is now, but then offer a higher one, uh, you know, double, triple the price or whatever, and they get a free uh one hour strategy call with you.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And interesting.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, and that and what that does is if someone, you know, they'll get them in the community so they're into your ecosystem, but they also get a bonus um call with you that you where because they may, if they're joining, they may have some other questions and they probably appreciate uh you know one-on-one time with you.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a great, a great way of doing it.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you have additional resources, PDFs or things that they wouldn't get normally in the cat in the membership, but you you keep maybe for your one-on-one clients, you might offer up a couple of those as a bonus at that higher higher price point as well.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't take more of your time, it just provides more value and uh and gives your clients another way to onboard with it.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you would do that extra call like once a month, or just a one-off?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Just a one-off.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd set it up where they get a link to your calendarly, and uh right after they pay that that higher premium to join your membership community, then your um, you know, they they just schedule a call and you in and on your calendar, they just block out when you would want to do those over the next months.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean it's a huge value add.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh people pay a couple hundred dollars or five hundred, you know, people will pay five hundred dollars to fifteen hundred dollars easily to to have a really you know a one-on-one strategy session.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't need ongoing coaching, but they would like to have just that one strategy session just to get the cobwebs out and kind of get pointed in the right direction.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Huge value.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I never thought about that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making notes here.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know I'm recording this opinion invoice.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yep with pre-pricing.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: With three options.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: With three options.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, let's hear about some other things that are not related to pricing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've got a lot of other things going on.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, share with us first about visible TV and what that is.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: We've mentioned that a couple times in this conversation already, but for those who don't know what it is, if you can share about that, and then also what are some other exciting things that you're working on?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know of at least one project that's really, really cool.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to hear about those.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, appreciate that, Kent.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, visible TV is basically the Netflix streaming service for entrepreneurs and creative entrepreneurs like us.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we set out to uh provide hope and inspiration.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes we don't need another, you know, 10-part framework, another strategy, another webinar.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just need a reason to keep going.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Visible TV fills that void.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're a we're a full-fledged streaming service, just like Netflix.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're on uh Roku, iOS, Amazon, Fire TV, uh all the streaming channels, plus uh the web and everything.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're at home and you're you're ready to kick up the feed on the lazy boy and you want some good, wholesome TV, uh, you know, don't watch the news and all that stuff, put on uh visible TV.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can see some great people that are just a few steps ahead of you.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh it's done in a very cinematic film blockbuster movie style.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So Kent, uh Kendall um Johnson, um, my business partner, he trained under Han Zimmer in Hollywood with um I love his stuff who's done the music for Gladiator and Top Gun Maverick, uh Avengers, he's done all that music.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So Kendall learned that craft from Han Zimmer.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so the music he scores for all of our episodes is very much in that in that realm.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So as these entrepreneurs are telling their story, like Shannon Mattern, who she was leaving corporate to start her side hustle coaching women in web design.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: She uh she the first time she told a client that she was uh a web designer, she felt like she lied.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: She felt like she was a fraud.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the music behind that moment is very, you know, emotionally uh enhancing, let's say, uh, to what she's describing in her story.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can learn from that.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can see, man, these people struggle just like me.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Dan Miller, who I'm sure your crowd knows of, because I'm sure you talk about him quite a bit.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he talked about, you know, you know the story.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he uh you know was$400,000 in debt and and sold his uh his health club.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, what do I do now?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm$400,000 in debt, and I just sold this thing.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh anyway, so the music behind it and the filming is very cinematic and just beautiful, high quality, not just a YouTube video.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you can um you can get it on all the channels.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we've got um some great guests on there.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've had Mike Kim and Shannon Mattern, our friend David Hancock from Morgan James Publishing, Nick Pavlitis, uh Honoree Corridor.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just and we've got a lot of other uh great guests coming, and and the and the network's gonna just keep growing and just be a great resource for creative entrepreneurs like us.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I love it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's good stuff.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I wish uh I wish uh, you know, there's those that we all have those moments, you know, and and I've had a few nights waking up uh going, oh man, is this gonna work, you know, and stuff.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh when I hear people uh uh say those kinds of things, so it it keeps us encouraged and um keeps keeps the vision alive.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know you have a project that's coming out next year that you are currently working on.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Share with us what that's all about because I think this is, I mean, visible TV is really, really cool.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like you you're adding another whammy on top of something that's already really cool.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is gonna be our flagship, like what we're known for.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we have the the docuseries, the mini docuseries, and we've done some live shows and some some some university teaching on visible on the network, but we're gonna be launching this full-length film documentary called The Creator Revolution.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's gonna be a full-length documentary.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: This will be uh like right now, all of our content is on Visible TV.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So this documentary will not only be on visible TV that you'll be able to buy as a standalone product, but it'll also be on Amazon Prime, um, IMDB register, just like a regular film.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll be right up there next to all the great, you know, films uh that you can find.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um and we're interviewing some uh some great people uh in the creator space.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're hoping to maybe get Nathan Berry.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've got interviews scheduled with Michael Hyatt and um and John Lee Dumas, um uh Julia McCoy from uh Content Hacker.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and we've got some TikTok, some 20-something TikTokers that are you know, have six million followers that are making six figures a year.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna basically take all of those and put that into a really compelling story and talk about the the history of kind of the the whole information, how we've gone from the um industrial age to the information age, and and there's a saying now um the information we've gone from the information uh age to the um the age of insight and how creators and this is there's 50 million of us out there, and with the pandemic that's really pushed a lot of people into doing their own thing.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this will be that documentary that you can point to and go, Look, mom, I'm not crazy.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually people making a living and doing what we're doing, uh, that that have uh a nice shirt on top and basketball shorts on the bottom when they're zoom calling, you know, in into their uh into their board uh board meetings.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So uh literally I'm wearing shorts right now.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're all about, and uh we want to embrace that, provide hope and inspiration to all of the creators out there.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're looking for a January 28th, uh, 2023 um film uh uh invite or um sorry, screening here in Nashville.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's on our one-year anniversary.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we're hoping to do that at the Franklin Theater and uh pack the house and um have a big spectacle about it, and then it'll be released on all the channels like Prime and Google Play and all that good stuff.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for that to come out.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see it, but also help support it because there's a lot of people in my life who probably still look at what I do and they go, Why doesn't he have a regular job?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: When is he gonna get a real job?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that's really common.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is so common.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I mean, you know, just just the pe you know, the whole idea about making living online or through social media or through that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it there's there's there's there's still a lot of people stuck in legacy, what I call legacy thinking, um, you know, which is very much embodied in the um industrial, especially people our age, you know, boomers and and gen Xers are very, you know, go to go to work for one company, stay there for 30 years, retire.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those days are relatively over for the most part.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's the power's back with us and uh being creators and uh entrepreneurs is where we're is the sweet spot for for a lot of people.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Paul, this has been an absolute blast.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so thrilled that you were able to take the time to be on the show today.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I took a lot of notes, more than more notes than I have taken on any recent podcast interview, actually.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is I'm gonna have to go back and re-listen to all this.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this is so helpful.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I want to take a second to acknowledge all the value that you're adding into the world with visible, your pricing strategies, info, um, the documentary coming up, and all the other cool stuff you're doing.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, you're a musician, you got guitars on the wall behind you.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's so many awesome things that you're doing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so thrilled that we've been able to connect here today and appreciate how this is helping me personally, and also it's gonna make a big difference in our listeners' lives.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks again.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Honored to be here, Kent, and uh and uh I hope uh hope your audience found some value from that and um go out there and get after it and keep your head up high, and uh life is good and a great time to be alive.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope that you not only enjoyed that conversation and had fun with it, even more so I hope that you took notes.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I took a bunch of notes uh from this interview and I just really appreciated Paul sharing these strategies.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: These are things that I've already started to implement in my business.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, as soon as I got done with that conversation back when we recorded it a few weeks ago, I actually used one of his strategies in a uh ghostwriting proposal that I sent to a client.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the strategy that I used was instead of so so normally when I I send out a proposal, I always include different levels that they can engage with me on.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's sort of like here's the the least expensive option, here's the middle of the road, here's the highest option.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead of listing them left to right from least expensive to most expensive, I actually reversed that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I went most expensive, middle of the road, and then least expensive.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, what a simple thing.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it totally makes sense because uh our eyes always go to the left first.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's just how we read.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that that's how English speakers are used to reading.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I had never realized that that was a great strategy.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I did.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um I found that that was really, really helpful.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you again took notes because there's a lot of really, really great tips here.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hope that you check out Visible TV.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's visibletv.com.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there is, again, there's a link in the show notes for you to get seven days of Visible TV for free, which is a pretty cool deal.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also make sure and connect with Paul on social media.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: There will be links in the show notes as well.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank Paul for taking time out to do this conversation.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Paul is such a great guy.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, he really cares about people and he's such a humble guy.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for having achieved so much in his life.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: He just is so easygoing and very easy to talk to, as you've heard here in this episode.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.