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READING ROOM JAN 25 · The Reading Room

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, the right.
0:14
Speaker 2: Read wed.
0:18
Speaker 3: Well, welcome to the reading room the January, the first
0:21
reading room of twenty twenty five. So welcome back, Barry, Hello,
0:28
and Sue. Hello, Sue. And we have a new member
0:32
of our group. We have Eddie.
0:33
Speaker 4: Hello, guys.
0:34
Speaker 3: No, Edie's on the radio on a Wednesday. Aren't you're
0:36
the Wednesday Man?
0:37
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm the Wednesday.
0:38
Speaker 3: Wednesday Wednesday Man. So I think you must have read
0:41
the book in quite a short time, to be honest.
0:44
Speaker 4: I picked this book up last year christ and then
0:47
got through the half of their first story.
0:50
Speaker 1: There's two stories in the book, and as you know,
0:52
and then once I volunteered to come on this show,
0:55
I thought, right, get me head down and read it.
0:57
Speaker 4: Finished it last night and yeah, perfect.
1:00
Speaker 3: Well the book is smut by Alan Bennett. And it
1:05
is a bit smutty, isn't it?
1:08
Speaker 2: Yes? I think. Yeah, the title advertisers it. That's fine,
1:12
I think, say to know what you're looking at.
1:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was quite shocked actually at this smuttiness of it.
1:19
But I thought it was very very good. So Alan Bennett,
1:21
he wrote it in twenty twelve, am I write, I
1:24
think it's as one of his latest books isn't it.
1:26
He hasn't written much after this as far as I know,
1:29
and it is. It's two short stories, and as usual,
1:34
he does write about middle aged women, doesn't it not
1:37
older women? Actually older women?
1:39
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well yeah, I think he's had a series of
1:43
doing that sort of thing, certainly with the Talking Heads.
1:46
They were based mainly around women of a certain age.
1:50
I mean. But he's probably best known for The History Boys,
1:52
which is about boys, really boys at school, you know.
1:56
So I suppose he he writes about particular areas, like
2:03
you know, and it's chosen area at this stage seems
2:06
to be older ladies and also stories of a sort
2:14
of sexual nature, if that's not being too explicit, you see.
2:17
Speaker 3: I haven't read much. I have seen the film The
2:19
Lady in the Van, which is based on real life fact, right,
2:24
and she lived on his driveway, she did, But I haven't.
2:28
I didn't think a lot of it was as sexual
2:31
as this book was.
2:32
Speaker 2: Oh no, that that wasn't I think, you know. I
2:34
think that the you know, like I say that the
2:36
title advertises it, and I think that you know that
2:39
the two stories fit very well together because they are
2:44
about women of a certain age, particularly, I think you know,
2:49
but absolutely, to my mind, very tastefully done. You know,
2:53
there's nothing it's I suppose it's mildly sallacious, but it's
2:58
it's done. It's done in the best possible taste you
3:00
could if that's not kind of contradictory, you know.
3:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, a very amazing subject, an amazing mind to think
3:07
of what he did. So let's start with you. Hey,
3:10
what did you think of the book? And give us
3:11
some of your feedback.
3:13
Speaker 5: Right, So, I have to say in Jared reading the book,
3:18
because I never read anything by Alan Bennett before, so
3:22
I was curious and I found it very different and interesting,
3:30
and I think it's the tribute to his storytelling that
3:35
sometimes you could say that they'd such a confine, but
3:41
you know, because sometimes he reads the characters around like
3:44
pieces on a chessboard. But it still has the power
3:48
to make you want to read more and to find
3:52
out what these characters become and what they are going
3:55
to do next.
3:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, certain things was just certain wrong liners
4:01
were hilarious that he says. And yeah, on to you, Eddie,
4:07
what about you? What do you give us something of
4:08
your opinion?
4:10
Speaker 1: Like the book, I felt like in my mind, I
4:14
was waltzeing through the book. In terms of this, it
4:16
was almost like a traditional British sex for us in
4:21
the in the in the in the shape of like
4:24
people Gone Past Brian Rix was it, Yeah, that sort
4:27
of thing. What I did find is sometimes I was
4:31
having difficulty understanding well following the the words in terms
4:37
of well outcon the puri. There were times when I
4:41
thought there should be a commoday pontinion. I'm talking about
4:44
Alan Bennety and knowing much better than me about reading.
4:47
But sometimes I think so the paragraphs a bit long,
4:49
and you took of for granted that we were totally
4:52
understanding where the story was coming from, or that you know,
4:55
the characters, what they were saying and stuff like that.
4:57
Were apart from that, No, I thought it was a
5:00
great little romp through where precious how can I say
5:04
it priciously hang ups about sex.
5:07
Speaker 3: I totally agree, because in the beginning I didn't know
5:09
what was going on. When she's a patient, doesn't she
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but she's not really a patient. She's working as a patient,
5:14
isn't She's pretending? So I didn't. I found that was
5:17
quite hard. But then it did come apparent that what
5:19
was happening, and then I was actually quite shocked at
5:23
when the young students decide to have sex in front.
5:27
I can I say this or I'm going to be
5:29
plot spoiler. But anyway, the whole plot is quite astounding,
5:32
really and quite quite shocking, but very humorous. Barry, do
5:36
you want to add something?
5:38
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I mean I don't think I'm sure I
5:41
said this last last time actually, but I don't think
5:44
we can we can discuss it at all without being
5:46
a plot spoil.
5:47
Speaker 3: No, it's true, true.
5:48
Speaker 2: Because I mean, the outline of the story is you've
5:51
just said, there's a woman whose husband has just died,
5:54
and she is acting as a as a hospital as
6:01
a patient for trainee doctors and so they like to
6:06
some degree like television extras if you like, and they're
6:08
doing they're doing their bit parts, and the doctors are
6:13
trying to establish what's wrong with them through the through
6:16
the scripts that they use. So she's she enjoys that.
6:19
But one of the trade ee doctors is actually a
6:23
lodger with her boyfriend, and they get behind with the
6:26
rent and they suggest another way of paying, and and
6:30
that way of paying is to invite her into one
6:34
of their evening sessions, and it sounds on the face
6:39
of it, you know, as it's you know, very very
6:43
risk ay, but the way that he handles it, I
6:45
just think is is exceptional. I mean I actually listen
6:49
to it first and it's read by him, and the
6:54
way that he reads it, it's just it's it's fabulous
6:58
because it's so matter of fact. It's a bit like
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you know, when when she's you know, when it gets
7:03
to a bit where she's sort of should be looking
7:06
more closely, she looks at the she's looking at the
7:09
pattern in the carpet, you know, for instance. I just
7:11
thought it was really really well done.
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Speaker 3: You I did too, So do you want to.
7:15
Speaker 5: Add Yeah, I just I think that's The first story
7:20
reminded me if I mutually a quote from Hamlets, which
7:23
is we know what we are, but no, not what
7:26
we may be. And then there was so relevant to
7:30
her character and she became something different to opportunity really
7:37
and it also made me wonder what seemingly ordinary people
7:41
do behind closed doors. And I'm sure it makes you wonder.
7:46
It provokes a reaction from the reader.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And of course the second book, which I preferred
7:53
to be honest, I don't know whether you did, but
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I preferred the second book. I liked them both, but
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I thought the story was just so fascinating and everyone's
8:03
lives were so intermingled in the second story with Graham
8:07
and the way it starts off that she was disappointed
8:11
in the person that Graham married because she wasn't as
8:14
attractive as she believed she was, and then the whole
8:17
story goes on to that Graham was gay and he's
8:20
got in a relationship with somebody and then he goes
8:22
to the police. I thought it was a fascinating story
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and really well written, and it showed the snobbery you
8:31
know of some people, I suppose. And Eddie, did you
8:34
want to add something to in.
8:35
Speaker 1: Terms of the second book, Yeah, yeah, Again, it gripped
8:40
me that that the second one I liked better than
8:42
the first one. I think that the first one was
8:44
really good. I thought it was some some really funny moments.
8:46
Dr Valentine, who was in charge of all the doctors.
8:49
They would be doctors talking to Terry. Don't forget Terry,
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who was the guy who was like always happy to
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sit there sprawled out showing all those no nas whatever.
9:00
The knickknacks and everyone thinking, oh, what's going on there
9:04
for the Yeah, missus Donaldson, she was.
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Speaker 4: I think she was a star. You know.
9:08
Speaker 1: I like the the old fashioned way of voyeurism, isn't it.
9:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
9:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was putting her glass. She's putting the glass
9:17
to the wall next to the young students bedroom so
9:20
she could hear them having having sex.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was. It was. I think it was.
9:28
Speaker 1: A wake up call for me, especially thinking do you
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know what and I should be shouldn't be like this
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because I'm more or less the same age. No people's
9:36
hang ups about sex and all that, And I think
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Alan Benni's job here was basically to debunk the myth
9:41
of like, older people don't have sex and they've still
9:45
got strong sexual feelings. And you know, I say I
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like that. I mean I like that as as something
9:50
to read. That was interesting, you know, yeah, very true.
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Speaker 3: Well, I read some of the reviews and it and
9:56
somebody said this is a really good, I think, a
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good sentence and it's not about people playing roles and
10:01
keeping secrets from one another. And I thought that was
10:04
quite good because they thought, there are everyone plays a role,
10:07
don't they. And then you see into the lives absolutely absolutely.
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Speaker 2: I mean I think you know that she has a
10:12
daughter who disapproves of her taking in lodgers even you know,
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and sort of treats it as you know, her father
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wouldn't have liked that, you know, and what have you.
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And I suppose that, you know, the essence of it
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becomes that she has a sort of a second blossoming
10:28
really if you like, or it might even be a
10:30
first blossoming, if that's a word, should be blooming maybe. Anyway,
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I think that she grows as and as it becomes
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more apparent that people know what she's doing, she becomes
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more brazen about it. And I thought that was absolutely
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brilliant and and actually the way that the end that
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story was was was priceless. I thought, where she's reading,
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just let me read this last chat, you know, before
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she goes into the room with the guy, which was
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just you know, it made me laugh out loud. Which
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is a great way to finish a story, isn't it?
11:09
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Sue, Did you want to add some things?
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Speaker 5: Yeah? I think, But I think with Alan Bennett, if
11:16
the sharp observations just bring his characters to life, and
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I love the way he reads life into them. And
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it just reminds me that I think what he's saying
11:27
is where life is fun. That was the message that
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I got from it. And I think I thought they
11:37
were both very good with the way the plotted and
11:40
both them together. I think the second both of them
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have a surprise just bringing sickness, normal surprises. Both of
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them have a big surprise at the end the stories
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to have gone on and found out what happened for
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all of them.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that he could do a sequel first one. I
12:01
like the way that she kind of was it. Gwen,
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the daughter almost became the father, and she'd say, oh,
12:07
Dad wouldn't approve of that. You know, she took this authority,
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and I think that does happen. As you said, Barry,
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it's it's quite realistic in relationships, how sometimes older children
12:16
can take the authoritarian position.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely right. I mean, I think you know, it is significant.
12:21
I think that that Alan Bennetts an openly gay man.
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I think that that, you know, permeates all of his stories.
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But in a in a a in a lovely open way,
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I think, you know, I mean, there is certainly I
12:34
mean in the second story, when because Betty doesn't doesn't
12:40
doesn't know for sure that that that her husband is
12:44
is you know, gay or bisexual or whatever. But she
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has that thing where she goes and this was which
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was this was so Alan Bennett to me, which was
12:54
like she she she went in, she caught and watching
12:58
a channel a Channel four late night program which was
13:01
called Footballers with the Shirts Off, which I just thought
13:04
was like absolutely super.
13:09
Speaker 3: Yeah. But the twist of the his lover being the
13:12
policeman who he wanted to go and complain to. That's right,
13:17
wasn't it. And then it turned out he was the
13:19
policeman in charge of those kind of complaints. Yeah, And
13:23
I thought that that twist was amazing. And then yeah,
13:25
Betty's sleeping with his dad. It's alwaysn't a bit like.
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Speaker 2: The twists and turns.
13:33
Speaker 1: That's why I mentioned that it was a sort of
13:36
traditional British fast. Yeah, interesting point he made their crystal word.
13:41
I mentioned before about the older people rediscovering forms of
13:45
better with sex, but it was a younger daughter. Well
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it was approved in this situation when she dad wouldn't
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have approved the first one, the first.
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Speaker 3: Novel, Yeah, it was she didn't. Yeah, and I think
13:57
a lot of people don't like that when the mum,
14:00
you know, when when one partner's died and the other
14:02
partner's getting on with it and they don't like it,
14:05
you know, and it's like, well, who's the adult here?
14:07
So did you want to add something?
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Speaker 5: Yeah? No, I think I agree. I think the prayer
14:12
for the writer, and I think it's Bennett's skilled that
14:16
you can not give too much to the reader. But
14:22
it's like feeling, feeling lays away from these people live.
14:28
It's just when you think there can't be any more surprises,
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it's also another surpriser in the way paces it means
14:36
that you think, oh no, that ridiculars you just accept it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Also, it's one of those things I think where you know,
14:45
regardless of whether you think of the morality of what
14:48
the people are doing, you're on their side. It's one
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of those things that you're sort of rooting for them,
14:54
as it were, you know. And I think that that's
14:57
like a clever thing to do, you know. But also
15:01
he manages to get his own sort of humanity in
15:04
there as well all the time, which I suppose you
15:06
might expect. It's like when Graham is trying to be
15:10
put to the police, you know that he's being blackmailed
15:13
and he's waiting there and the sergeant's talking to a
15:15
woman who had been attacked, and the sergeant says to her,
15:20
you know that gentleman who assaulted you, did you notice
15:24
if he was black at all? Which I just thought
15:27
was like terrific, you know, And that was like a
15:31
little aside, well he was waiting to be spoken to.
15:35
I loved it, you know, as you can probably tell.
15:37
I thought it was fabulous.
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Speaker 3: And I did love it too. I like this particular
15:41
quote when they're describing missus Donaldson and they say she's
15:44
a conventional middle class woman beached on the shores of widowhood.
15:49
I loved that quote absolutely. See back to you.
15:53
Speaker 5: No, I think it is description, and I think it's humor,
15:57
and it's kind of tongueing to human discaras the story
16:02
along the mad it makes you smile and then it
16:06
made you laugh, and.
16:08
Speaker 6: It's just so clever, clever, clever in the writing, characterization
16:15
and the place, and it's and it's so usual to
16:18
have to sort of.
16:20
Speaker 5: Review two stories in one book rather than one book
16:25
streak through. I'm glad that's what was different about these.
16:30
Very often you can have a book with two stories
16:33
in What is Great and the other one well sort
16:38
of sails by a composons. All these were equally strong.
16:43
Speaker 3: Yes, did you have a favorite?
16:46
Speaker 5: So? I think I prefer the first one?
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Speaker 3: Interesting? How do you like the second one? Did you?
16:53
Speaker 4: I did? I did?
16:54
Speaker 1: I think I was just I was intrigued by the
16:56
the movements of all these four characters.
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Speaker 4: You know me too?
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Speaker 3: How about you? Did you have a favorite?
17:01
Speaker 5: Well?
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Speaker 2: I liked both of them. I thought it was that
17:03
sort of the juxtaposition of the of the two women,
17:06
you know, in the in the in the first one,
17:08
you know, if you like, she's the goody and in
17:12
the second one she's the baddie really, you know, and
17:14
she's like the sort of Hyacinth Bouquet character, isn't she
17:18
and sort of frowning on it, and you know, very
17:23
much the first ones about you know, like I say,
17:25
the blossoming of of of of of the woman. But
17:29
in the in the second one, I was rooting for
17:32
for her husband, Graham's father, you know, you know, And
17:37
it was it was a thing where at the wedding
17:40
he was dancing, and it turned out that he was
17:42
a fabulous dancer, and everybody was really admiring him, and
17:46
his wife wasn't impressed with him because he'd been drinking
17:51
and didn't allow him to swear, and while he was
17:54
dancing with her, he just kept saying rude words to her.
17:57
So at the end of it she just thought it
17:59
was the a a Stacey'd ever had, you know. But
18:01
everybody thought it was great, you know, I just like,
18:04
you know, how how does he think of that sort?
18:07
You know, just I'm just throwing in the little rude
18:09
words all the time, you know, it was great.
18:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, a genius man, and comedy is so hard to write,
18:14
isn't it. And he's a national treasure. He's been described
18:17
as a national travel treasure. And I have to agree
18:19
with that, Eddie. Did you want to add something?
18:21
Speaker 1: No, I was just I'm on page one hundred and seventeen,
18:24
and it's the stars of the second story, and it
18:26
gives you an indication of what the main character that
18:29
the woman is like. It goes like this, like many
18:32
a handsome man, Graham Forbes had chosen to marry someone
18:36
not nearly as good looking as himself and even slightly
18:39
slightly older, will be really to me chucked himself away
18:43
if he asked me his mother said, which, of course
18:45
he didn't waste waste waste time his mother and good looking, naturally,
18:49
one assumed he'd marry someone along the same lines. We've
18:52
always been so close, and that gives you an indication where.
18:55
Speaker 4: The story is going to go. Because he's a sport boy,
18:57
isn't he.
18:58
Speaker 3: Yes, And she doesn't know him at all all, She
19:01
doesn't know him at all.
19:04
Speaker 2: What she does say at the end that she knew
19:06
he was gay, I mean, but I mean the way
19:09
that you know, Alan Bennett sort of addresses that, the
19:12
fact that he is gay and yet he still has
19:14
relations with his wife, which he really enjoys, was that
19:18
the only stimulation he needed was to see himself in
19:21
the mirror, you know, because he really thought, you know,
19:26
if he was a cover of chocolate, he died himself.
19:28
Speaker 4: You know what.
19:30
Speaker 1: One thing, Barry, one thing about that what you just said,
19:33
from being can't help looking himself in the mirror. He
19:36
fancies himself and then he seems so vulnerable when he
19:39
meets the other guy you know is a Kevin That
19:42
was Sudan, wasn't he change name? One was called Toby.
19:45
But another part of what just read there. The last
19:50
part of it made me laugh. This is Margaret. That's
19:53
his name. Grave's mother Forbes, what's she said? She just asked,
19:57
what's his name? What's her name that you're going to marry?
20:00
Speaker 4: Said Bessie, what sort of a name is that?
20:02
Speaker 1: Margarete? Yes, Joan possibly, though I must confess Caroline was
20:06
the least I've been hoping for.
20:07
Speaker 4: But Bessie, you know what I mean. And that made
20:09
me laugh.
20:09
Speaker 3: That line funny, So, yeah, I agree.
20:13
Speaker 5: You just does playing the name sort of. In the
20:15
first story, it starts off where it's missus Donaldson and
20:23
she becomes Jane. So it's as if he is moving
20:27
the characters and making them more reader friendly, making them
20:33
more human. So it starts off with formality and then
20:37
it goes into informa and then known as Jane. And
20:42
when she says, call me Jane, that's sort of just
20:46
taking it off the sort of pedestal or taking off
20:50
the image that we accept what people expected to be
20:54
like to become human and to become flesh and blood.
20:58
Don't think he does playing with the name and the
21:01
form of the less of his character. And I must
21:05
people put on what people are called.
21:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, and It was interesting too that I didn't realize
21:14
people could get a job doing that pretending to be patients.
21:18
I didn't know that existed. So yeah, you knew married,
21:21
didn't you.
21:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I say, it's very similar to sort of
21:24
extra work really, you know, which and you can just
21:27
imagine how they were doing it. You know, there was
21:29
a there was a there was a great bit which
21:31
I probably can't find now, which whether it whether we're
21:36
doing the like pretending to have a particular disease or something,
21:42
and there was let me try and find it. Oh yeah,
21:48
And so the guy Terry who it was a great
21:52
character really, you know, because he's there with his Saggie
21:55
underpants and what. But the one which I thought was
22:01
really good was because they've started filming the things it said.
22:04
There was Terry, for instance, who that afternoon had been
22:07
diagnosed with terminal cancer. Now, whenever he felt the camera
22:11
in the offing, he looked into the middle distance, as
22:13
if contemplating his tragic future and the coming beyond. You know,
22:18
you could just imagine them, can't.
22:19
Speaker 5: You know.
22:19
Speaker 2: It's like acting, you know, this is your was it
22:23
the red letter day? You know sort of you're just
22:26
waiting for the big moment to do something, you know,
22:29
and then they cut it out, you know, that sort
22:31
of thing. Really, it just felt, you know, the aspirations
22:34
of the guy himself, who was just sat there in
22:36
his dressing gown, you know sort of, and that's his
22:39
big moment, you know, looking out into the world and
22:42
contemplating his future.
22:47
Speaker 5: I like the competitiousness as well between them, you know,
22:51
I don't want to do this, scape don't want to
22:53
do that. All human natures there, every aspect of human
22:57
nature in the way to behave. And I thought it
23:01
was fascinating. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was
23:04
refreshing as well.
23:05
Speaker 4: Yeah.
23:06
Speaker 6: I did think not.
23:07
Speaker 5: Just the situation, but also the way it was written
23:11
was very refreshing. And I think the stories that said
23:15
it's very massive fact, incredibly master fact, and nothing is
23:21
dressed up at all.
23:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you and I this was our first book
23:25
for by Alan Bennett, wasn't. I've never read anything by
23:28
Alan Bennett.
23:29
Speaker 5: I know, I was looking forward to reading it, but
23:34
sometimes you hear so much about particular author that it
23:39
can disappoint because the expectations have been built so high.
23:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, but with this, I thought it was just it was.
23:46
Speaker 5: So Alan Bennett and deserved that the TV program on
23:51
called The Alan Bennett at ninety, which I have not
23:54
yet watched because I wanted to do this show first
23:58
and then watched Alan Bennett so I wouldn't be influenced
24:01
by the man himself.
24:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to watch that myself.
24:06
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it might you know, it would
24:07
have made a good sitcom. I think, you know, it's
24:09
got all of the all of the right elements in
24:12
that because all of the different characters who do the
24:15
acting for the for the doctors all had their own
24:20
character which were very well built, you know, considering that
24:23
it's like a novella, isn't it, you know, even a
24:26
sort of a long short story, you know, to actually
24:29
develop those characters, you know, it's fantastic, you know. And
24:33
even the bit where the woman who likes to play
24:37
like she's got dementia and what have you and and
24:41
is it missus Greening Missus Donaldson takes a bottle of
24:47
water and just pours it out on the floor underneath
24:50
they just you know, which I just thought was fabulous
24:54
and would work great on television because this other woman
24:57
who's like, you know, like to think she was really
25:00
playing a part. Isn't like completely side stepped by that?
25:03
You know? So that was it was beautiful and I
25:05
can imagine that being a great.
25:09
Speaker 3: Eddie. Did you want to add something to.
25:12
Speaker 1: How can I say? I really enjoyed both stories? I mean,
25:16
there's more and keep delving into the book here.
25:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good, really good.
25:23
Speaker 4: You know, the ending itself.
25:24
Speaker 1: I thought we need more here, as as Barry says
25:27
that you could put more flesh on on some of
25:29
the characters, Terry especially and doctor Valentine, who had the
25:33
crush on Missus Donaldson, you know, and I love the
25:36
fact that Missus Donaldson would retire into the canteens hospital
25:40
canteen and they indulge, indulged. She talked to a friend, Delia,
25:47
asking for advice. I think he fancies me and stuff
25:49
like that. So it's there was all different aspects of
25:52
the story that would that sort of intrigued me, wanted
25:55
me to want to to read on.
25:57
Speaker 3: He seemed to really get into the cycling of the
25:59
of the characters. Didn't he seem to know every single character,
26:02
you know, whatever it was old, your male, female, straight gay.
26:06
He just seemed to know how people are soon. Did
26:09
you want to add something?
26:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I agree with that, And I think it's
26:13
a visual writer as well, because you can picture this,
26:18
as Darry said, you can picture it. And I think
26:21
his writing it's easily transferred to the stage or television
26:27
because of that gift that he's got and that's been
26:30
rise within his characterization, and he gives so much information
26:36
in dialogue, so it's sometimes it's not what the characters do,
26:40
it's what they say. Yeah, so he uses dialogue to
26:44
really good effects.
26:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you said that. I was gonna I
26:49
was gonna say the same thing. I think it's it's
26:51
a bit like a a Roddy Doyle type character. It
26:54
understands dialogue so so well, and it's just read so naturally,
27:00
and you know, you put your own voices onto them,
27:03
and that's like a great sign of dialogue writing, I think.
27:06
You know, Yeah, I agree, fantastic, But did did.
27:09
Speaker 3: You want anything else? Do you want to? Isn't have
27:12
any more quotes?
27:12
Speaker 4: So well, I'm just looking through now, Christina, it was No.
27:18
Speaker 1: I'll go back to Doctor Valentine as well and Terry
27:21
because they did strike me as someone where you could
27:24
develop the story more because I wanted I wanted doctor Valentine.
27:27
Didn't they have a date with missus Donaldson as well?
27:29
Did they have Did he go for a meal as well?
27:31
A m I write there he did.
27:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, they did go for a meal, and there
27:35
was some suggestions that they might go back home, but
27:39
she she postponed it by inventing the fact that it
27:43
was two years from from when her husband had died.
27:46
And that was like just towards the end of the
27:48
book then, which is when she then meets the new
27:53
not meets the new lodger, but gets friendly with the
27:56
new lodger.
27:58
Speaker 1: And those two lodgers, those two students, and they went
28:01
software they you know, you're paying them to listen a
28:06
two inches but you know, a two football, you know.
28:08
For she's obviously she gleaned some some enjoyments.
28:12
Speaker 4: Out of that that way.
28:13
Speaker 3: And then yeah, it was funny when they started to
28:16
walk around in the under when gren comes in and
28:19
the male students were, you know, making a cup of
28:21
tea and a piece of toast with his undas and doors,
28:25
and she's shocked, you know, mother, and mister Donaldson's like,
28:30
well they do live here, darling, you know they are
28:32
they And it's like, well, they're just lodgers, you know,
28:36
but you can imagine that happening. If you've seen them
28:38
doing that, then they would walk around. So did you
28:40
have something else to say?
28:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just that I would like to I would
28:46
like to have the sequel ten years on what happened
28:49
to them? And I think that's a sun of a
28:53
good writer when you want more.
28:56
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'm just going to read the beginning of one
28:58
of the chapters and then it's just this is just classic.
29:01
So she's saying having had a dullish day, and in
29:05
brackets thyroid deficiency, hiatus, hernia and non extruded piles. She
29:11
was sitting in the kitchen having a quiet drink when
29:13
the doorbell went. I just think it's just it's like
29:16
so matter of fact the way she's written it on
29:20
serious topics, but you can have a laugh, you can
29:23
have a laugh about it.
29:27
Speaker 1: I was going to say, Christine, before this had read
29:29
only one other. I think I think it was too
29:32
Actually years ago I read one.
29:34
Speaker 4: I think it was on Told Stories.
29:35
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I read The Lady in the
29:38
Van that you mentioned before I saw the film.
29:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, do you see the film.
29:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't read it any Smith.
29:43
Speaker 4: Played the character. That's a true story.
29:46
Speaker 3: Amazing, that unbelievable fifteen years on its driveway.
29:49
Speaker 4: I've seen the foto. Have you seen the photo?
29:53
Speaker 1: He actually is a van and it's the most dilapidated
29:55
venue've ever seen your whole life. During the course of
29:58
the fifteen years she lived on this his pathway, it
30:02
got worse and worse and worse. In the end, she
30:05
was more or less a full time logic. He visited
30:07
her every day now and again. She's coming in and
30:09
have a shower of bath of suck, clean up and stuff.
30:12
But was it tragic and sad story as well? At
30:16
the same time, it's still funny because that's the way
30:18
Alan Bennett is.
30:19
Speaker 4: E can surprise you.
30:19
Speaker 1: You mentioned before, But sometimes you're reading it and you
30:22
don't realize I'm going this. This line's going to make
30:24
me based out laughing at the end of it, and.
30:26
Speaker 3: It's quite serious. But it's the way he's written. It's
30:28
quite funny, a.
30:29
Speaker 1: Bit like a bit like a Yorkshire p g woodhouse
30:31
at times. No, there's his use of dialogue and stuff
30:34
like that. We he can surprise you with something that
30:37
is hilariously funny, you know, very clever.
30:39
Speaker 6: So did you have no I.
30:41
Speaker 5: Think I think it's words. She mentions every word, and
30:46
I think that's what makes it work. I mean some
30:50
of the characters to me that remind me of well
30:53
Twelies in Persuation, where he likes to read this particular book,
30:58
which is about the rich and the landed gently. He
31:02
likes to read it because he can read his own
31:04
names and be very smooth about himself. And it's that
31:08
kind of sense of observation that struck me throughout it.
31:13
And it's sometimes he manages to get in a small
31:17
number of words what other writers would take two or
31:21
three paragraphs. And I think it's that Christmas of writing.
31:28
Speaker 3: Absolutely, he's so clever when you know, with his writing,
31:30
because it's just so well written that you it's a
31:33
joy to read.
31:34
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, sometimes you think so I should be laughing here.
31:38
It really makes you laugh exactly right.
31:43
Speaker 1: A lot of authors they go around the houses and
31:45
the priviletedges just to set up the joke at the end,
31:48
stayed joke, the funny funny line at the end of
31:51
the funny words at the end. This this guy Alan
31:53
Bell that he can get concise is the word for me,
31:56
where he concisely get you from me to be And
31:59
then the end of that line, you'd say, that just
32:01
made me laugh at you know what I mean, be
32:03
it Doctor Valentine or Terry shown us now Nars, dip dacks, whatever, it.
32:07
Speaker 3: Just makes you what, carry on reading it? Doesn't want
32:09
to carry on and not stop.
32:11
Speaker 2: It's not a bit addicted to it, because I mean,
32:13
the thing is, it's like quite a lot of the
32:16
jokes are just decided. It's a bit like he's sort
32:18
of is the narratives continuing and then he just tells
32:23
you a joke basically, you know, which is which is good?
32:26
I mean, I was reading about it. I mean I've
32:28
read quite a lot of him, so every time I
32:30
read him, I hear his voice anyway, you know so,
32:34
and I think that helps in a lot of ways.
32:37
But I was reading about when he was doing the
32:41
talking heads thing, you know, which which I thought was
32:44
terrific really because thora heard apparently had this ability to
32:49
be able to cry at will, and so when she
32:52
was doing her talking heads things, she was actually crying
32:55
for some considerable time while still delivering the lines, you know,
32:58
and obviously it's a monologue, you know. And at the
33:01
end of the film, and when when they'd finished, there
33:05
was like silence, you know, for a while, and nobody
33:08
had said anything, and they realized that the camera crew
33:11
were all crying, which is, you know, that's the power
33:16
of dialogue. Our power of thora heard as well, to
33:18
be fair, but the power of the dialogue is fantastic.
33:21
Speaker 3: Gosh, that's amazing. So yeah, anything else to add to
33:24
this wonderful book that we all loved, Yes, have you
33:29
got anything else to add? What about the second one?
33:31
We haven't talked as much about the second book? What
33:36
was it called? Again? It was called The The.
33:40
Speaker 5: Shieldings.
33:42
Speaker 3: Brilliant, brilliant title. What was your best part of that book?
33:46
Do you think?
33:46
Speaker 5: So?
33:47
Speaker 3: What what what's the most memorable part of it?
33:50
Speaker 5: I thought it would be interwhiny, intertwining the people, the
33:56
characters and how you were. That's awful. And then that
34:01
character was doing the same as the characters that you were,
34:07
you know, against, and that's where it was. Everybody was
34:11
kind of in the end, the guilty of each other.
34:15
But the way he shifted your sympathis right the way
34:19
through it and the fact that it never actually faulted
34:23
in never Sacked. It was interesting all the weear through
34:28
and the way he tracked those characters and made them
34:33
individual even though they were all doing similar things, they
34:37
each came off as individuals. And that's where I expelt it.
34:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of gave me hope about human nature
34:45
in a kind of a weird way, because you feel
34:48
like you can't turn real life situations into comedy. And
34:51
I think maybe that was what you said, Eddie, that
34:54
people have their own lives and you don't really know
34:57
what's behind their lives, what they're doing in their prime
35:00
its spaces, and you know what they're thinking, and you just.
35:03
Speaker 2: Need to either you know, should you you know, I mean,
35:05
this is one of the things where you know, in
35:07
the past, with even even in terms of homosexuality, within
35:12
my lifetime, it was a crime, you know. And the
35:15
fact that these days that Alan Bennett can write about
35:20
it so openly is it's not terrific because it should
35:24
always have been like that, you know, but but it's
35:27
great that it can. But I think that it also
35:32
just points out that really what people do behind closed
35:35
doors has nothing to do with anybody else anyway, It's.
35:38
Speaker 3: Not but it's refreshing to think that life is not
35:40
so serious in a way. You know, you're not just
35:42
getting up, going to work and doing this. You can think, well, actually,
35:46
you know what, there's fun and there's eccentricities, and there's
35:49
just crazy lives that people are having, and it just
35:53
makes you think life can be like that. It can
35:55
be a comedy. That's what That's what it inspired me
35:58
to think anyway that just enjoy life, make the most
36:01
of it. It's funny. Can you can turn a situation
36:04
into a comedy because at the end of the day,
36:06
it's a very temporary thing, isn't it? Living as a
36:08
very temporary thing?
36:09
Speaker 1: And well it's shown me as well as a reminder
36:13
really of like people still have sex when the eighty
36:15
ninety and all these characters weren't that old. But gives
36:17
you an indication of like, you know, we all still
36:19
have sexual feelings regardless.
36:21
Speaker 4: Of nineteen.
36:24
Speaker 1: Nine ninety nine, you know what I mean, we still do.
36:26
And I think he's there. Alan Benners has shown us
36:29
all the way forward in that respect.
36:30
Speaker 3: It's true. Well they're saying, like people's are residential homes,
36:33
there's always people going together, isn't there? And having relationships
36:36
and a lot of jealousies and you know you don't
36:39
think you don't do that?
36:40
Speaker 2: Why not? You know, I mean, why would you thrown
36:43
on it? You know, it's only like sort of you know,
36:45
people thinking it's distasteful for whatever reason, just because they're older.
36:50
Speaker 4: You know.
36:50
Speaker 2: Just it's mad, isn't it. And yet you know you'll
36:52
get people like say, you know Paul McCartney who's sort
36:56
of mid eighties, and you wouldn't think, you know that
36:59
about out him for instance.
37:01
Speaker 3: You know.
37:01
Speaker 2: And yet, so why were you thinking about other people
37:04
just because they're in a home somewhere Exactly?
37:06
Speaker 1: It goes back to what you're saying very were at
37:09
the start of the second book with Missus Forbes. She's
37:14
got high expectations for her handsome son, you know what
37:16
I mean? So do we take do we set great
37:19
store on looks in this in this society? Be living
37:22
if you if you're deemed to be not that good looking.
37:25
I don't use the word ugly, I've just used it obviously,
37:27
But if not, then you're barred from having sex with
37:31
anyone because you're not that good looking. You're not in
37:34
the same mold as as a supermodel, be a flee
37:36
or female sort of thing, do you know what I mean?
37:38
So to remind us well from Alan Bennis, I think
37:40
that you know, regardless of status, age wherever, you can
37:45
still enjoy the part of life.
37:48
Speaker 3: And Betty was very clever, wasn't she.
37:50
Speaker 4: She's my favorite, you know, in that second book.
37:53
Speaker 2: It's really good because she was like financially astute or whatever.
37:57
And even you know, the sorting out of the black
37:59
male it was was was was clever stuff. You know,
38:02
I'm not sure whether it was technically feasible or not,
38:05
but you know, I'm sure these days, you know, because
38:09
I mean, it's funny, isn't it. You know, it was
38:11
written twenty eleven, twenty twelve, you know, and things have
38:15
moved on so much since then, haven't they. You know,
38:17
technical and technologically it's like and with AI and what
38:21
have you. You know, it's you know that even the
38:24
discussions that we're having now probably won't exist because I
38:26
can't imagine that the AI would be able to reproduce
38:29
somebody like Alan Bennett. You know, if it ever does them,
38:32
we're all doomed, aren't we.
38:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, So do you want to add something?
38:36
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think I think part of this is the
38:39
view of all people is that if you just go
38:41
back fifty years, there were a lot of people who
38:45
were literally oh at sixty. With the modern you know,
38:50
modern medicine, modern alse awareness and so on, that people
38:55
are actually younger. Yeah, and that means that their life,
39:01
their life, what they can do with their life, has
39:05
been extended.
39:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
39:07
Speaker 5: So I think it reflects a change in what lies
39:11
ahead after Barty is you like? Because at one time
39:15
sixty years old, now sixty is young for a lot
39:18
of people exactly. So I think there's a lot of
39:21
adjustment of attitudes within that.
39:25
Speaker 3: Do you think a young person would think the same?
39:28
Don't you think, as we're all kind of getting to
39:29
that age, we know that when you reach sixty, you
39:32
still feel young and you still have those desires, but
39:35
young people would like, I don't think.
39:37
Speaker 5: I don't think young people think that father heads and say,
39:40
don't believe they're going to be sixty. I know, So
39:43
I don't think that they think that. I think it's
39:46
a generational thing. But I think within people who were
39:51
saying sixty fifty years ago, there's an awful big difference
39:55
between a sixty year old then and a sixty year.
39:58
Speaker 3: Old now asolutely.
40:00
Speaker 5: And I think the book reflects that transition into I'm
40:05
only sixty and that's young.
40:08
Speaker 3: It is young, it's very young. There is still a baby.
40:11
Speaker 5: It is, I mean, well.
40:14
Speaker 3: One hundreds old these days. I think sixties still young.
40:18
Sixties are still young.
40:19
Speaker 2: I think it changed with the nineteen sixties, to be honest.
40:22
I think that you know, even post war, you know,
40:27
sons dressed like their fathers, did you know, up until
40:31
Teddy Boys, and then you know in the in the
40:34
late fifties and then and then in the sixties, that's right, no.
40:41
Speaker 5: Worth at fourteen, yeah, and there were not seen it
40:44
just until after the war.
40:46
Speaker 2: But even if you watch like with the with the
40:48
Beatles interviews and what have you, and all the people
40:50
that you know addressed as their fathers, would you know,
40:53
and like it's pertinent even now, say the Bob Dylan film,
40:57
were you know, the people were attending the concerts, would
41:02
all be like in sports jackets and shirts and ties
41:05
and what have you. And the sixties changed all that,
41:08
and I think it changed the whole attitude towards I
41:12
mean there's you know, there's now eighty year old hippies,
41:15
isn't there, you know, so things that things have changed considerably,
41:18
you know, yeah, for the better. I would like to.
41:20
Speaker 3: Think absolutely, Eddie, if you got something to add.
41:23
Speaker 4: Just what you said before.
41:24
Speaker 1: She reminds me that she said fifty years ago things
41:28
were totally different. But I can imagine mister Fordes Walton's
41:31
wife around that dance floor at this son's wedding to
41:34
songs that would in the chart in nineteen seventy five,
41:37
which to me feels five minutes ago when I.
41:39
Speaker 4: Was that age.
41:40
Speaker 1: I was seventy five, I was seventeen, you know, and
41:43
five minutes later, I'm sixty six, and I've still got
41:47
the same mindset I had then.
41:49
Speaker 4: Yes, oh yeah, slightly, you know, a.
41:51
Speaker 3: Bit more slight, Yeah, a bit more wise, yeah, wiser,
41:55
hopefully and wise.
41:56
Speaker 4: I'm reading the book here.
41:57
Speaker 1: It reminds me of like, I like the fact I
41:59
know a personal point. I like the fact that I've
42:02
been there, lived alike, that's full of traveled each and
42:04
every highway as there, to quote Frondenatra.
42:07
Speaker 4: But I'm quite happy on my own now.
42:08
Speaker 1: I'm just reading about these these sorts of people, characters
42:12
and the way they're carrying on you know, yeah, yeah.
42:14
Speaker 3: It's good. Well I suppose it's it's easier to be
42:18
at home reading more than out there experiencing it exactly.
42:21
Speaker 2: I'm still out there experience.
42:25
Speaker 4: Last night everywhere.
42:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a singer, songwriter, poet and everything else. So
42:33
so we got anything else to add before we go.
42:35
Speaker 5: On to say, I shall be rooting up some more.
42:39
Alan bed to read me.
42:41
Speaker 3: Too, me too, for sure? Out of ten? So what
42:44
would you give the book? Eight? Okay, Eddie.
42:50
Speaker 4: Seven and a half.
42:53
Speaker 2: Well, it's not classic literature at all, but I'd give
42:58
it nine. So I enjoying, I would give your nine.
43:04
Speaker 3: It's up to you, isn't it. Right now it's the
43:06
time to choose the next book for next month. So
43:09
we all have the pieces of paper. Where are they
43:12
wor died they?
43:12
Speaker 2: Where they put triangle?
43:15
Speaker 3: We did put a little triangle, which is where's it gone?
43:17
Where's the triangle or there is? So we're here, got
43:19
the triangle here now? Because Eddie is the latest member
43:25
to join the group the reading room. Have we got
43:27
four here? Has everyone put there? I'm okay, We're going
43:32
to wait for Eddie and we're going to listen to
43:35
see what the next book is. Actually I just want
43:38
to thank Sefton Park Library too. And we know that
43:41
sometimes we'll choose a book and they don't have the
43:43
book in the library. That can be a little bit
43:45
of a problem, but we always get it solved. So
43:47
if it is your book and ed and we choose it,
43:49
I contact Sefton Park Library, which are absolutely brilliant. Paula
43:53
is brilliant and she just helps a lot, and then
43:57
we change the book if it's not available. So I'm
43:59
going to mix all these up in this little triangle
44:02
thing and Eddie, in fact, I'll keep it in my hands.
44:05
It's easier you can choose the book. This is the
44:08
exciting time of the show. Let me just in fact.
44:13
What I'll do is I'll put these in two different
44:15
hands and then we can eliminate that way. So I'm
44:18
going to put these in two different hands and then
44:20
we'll go So Eddie, choose a hand left, this one left? Okay.
44:28
Now I'm going to put these too in these two
44:30
different hands and then you choose again.
44:35
Speaker 4: Is it which one?
44:37
Speaker 3: So you can read out what the next book is
44:40
for next month.
44:42
Speaker 1: Number forty two, Liverpool will play Chelsea.
44:47
Speaker 3: Oh cool.
44:49
Speaker 4: F Scott Fitzgerald's Great Gatsby.
44:52
Speaker 3: So you've wanted that for ages, and I think it's available. Actually, yeah,
45:00
that'll be a good book to read. I've wanted to
45:02
read that book. Actually, I've seen the film, but I'd
45:05
like to read the book. It's meant to be one
45:06
of the best books ever, isn't it was?
45:07
Speaker 4: Not with what's his name? The Robert Redford?
45:11
Speaker 3: Robert red Yeah. I think there might be a new
45:13
one too.
45:14
Speaker 2: Okay, but I you Robert Redford?
45:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew Robert Redford. Yeah, a new film. I'm
45:19
not sure. I have seen the film, probably the one
45:21
with Robert Redford, but I believe the book is up
45:24
there with the classics, isn't it?
45:26
Speaker 4: What quick plot? We're not getting anything the worry? What's
45:28
it about?
45:29
Speaker 3: I think it's a guy that lives across to a
45:32
rich family, which is that right too? Do you know
45:35
anything about it?
45:36
Speaker 5: I just know verguely, but I know it's about someone
45:40
who he kind of has. I don't use the word
45:45
headiness because I don't think that's too true. But he
45:48
brings a new kind of existence to people. So that's
45:56
my impression, Quinster, rather than my knowledge. Yeah, but I've
46:01
wanted to read it because I've heard so much about it.
46:03
Speaker 3: Yeah me too.
46:05
Speaker 5: The writing of it.
46:07
Speaker 3: Yeah me too. And I believe it looks like human
46:11
emotions and humanity, which I always like in a book.
46:14
It looks at you know, humanity and different kinds of people,
46:18
wealth and poverty. I think. Yeah. Okay, well listen, thank
46:22
you all very much for coming to this month's reading room,
46:27
and we'll get in touch with the library. But other
46:29
than that, we know it's the Great Gatsby is our
46:32
next book, and we'll just arrange the date of when
46:36
we come. So thank you, Eddie.
46:39
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed it, and Barry, thanks very much.
46:42
Speaker 3: And thanks Sue. So stay on the line, stay on
46:46
the line so we can arrange the next date.
46:50
Speaker 7: Okay, So by everyone, bye bye bye bye bye.
47:01
Speaker 3: Any