Latest / The Parent Tap / An AI Founder’s Warning to Parents: “Teach Them to Be Irreplaceable”

Transcript

An AI Founder’s Warning to Parents: “Teach Them to Be Irreplaceable” · The Parent Tap

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a ten to twenty percent chance I'm hearing now that it could eventually end civilization as we know it.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: AI has the potential to replace you or to make you irreplaceable.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: If if you're a person rigid in your belief system, AI is gonna ruin like rule and dominate your life and manipulate the crowd out of you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: But who is there to define what a default should be?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean to crazy high levels.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't even respond to emails anymore.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you hear AI, you probably picture either a miracle worker or a job killer.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And most of us are just trying to survive the week, let alone run a business while raising kids.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing about today's guest.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: He is genuinely obsessed with what AI can do, and he's equally protective of what makes us human.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Nathan Graham is an AI entrepreneur, a Canadian real estate broker, author, and founder of Synthetic Eco, where he literally runs his own companies on teams of AI executives.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: He wrote a book with questions every parent asked, why won't he just log off?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: About the men and boys in our lives glued to their screens.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're going to get honest.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Zero hype answers to the questions no hustler podcast will touch.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do you use AI to get your time back without losing your family to it?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going, man?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just crazy.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to do that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have to get into this, and this just broke, I think, what, yesterday or the day before, the AI and the anthropic employee, I believe, who the whistleblower, right?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like he came out, I'm sure you've seen this, right?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: He came out and was like, I quit because I can't, I can't unconscious go through with this because AI could like there's a 10 what 10 to 20% chance I'm hearing now that it it could eventually end civilization as we know it.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your take on that whole thing?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's thrown out there, and I just want to see like what's your take on that?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's preposterous or is there some validity to that?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I haven't so I've heard about that.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't read the whole article.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've been deep in my own projects lately.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think first of all, there's a couple of things to go about it.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think number one, AI is scary enough because there's been enough science fiction, which we should fully be paying attention to.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying dismiss it, but there's been enough science fiction and there's enough people who don't understand it that they get worried about it, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, AI is very powerful.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just my take on it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: AI is the human component.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you're to compare it to human, it's like our human brain, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So human beings, in my argument, are made up of three parts.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have a body, we have a mind, and we have a soul.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get to the soul part in a minute, because that's very important, and we can call that different things.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a body that I control.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm moving my hands right now.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: But ironically, my body also acts independently of me, right?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: This third thing is almost like you can call it a soul, you can call it consciousness, you can call it whatever.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: But this third thing is kind of all right, brain, body, time for a timeout, right?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm gonna be the deciding factor, or I'm gonna side with this, or I'm gonna side with that.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really funny because human beings, we are all these three things, but then all these three things sometimes act independently and different.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I going into this?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: AI is the brain component behind all that.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: That that that's all it is.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: AI is the brain component.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm of the the belief that AI will not become conscious the way human beings are.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: They will eventually get a body, but they're not the programming of sensory touch is not going to emotionally engage them the way we get emotionally engaged.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my wife comes and gives me a hug and I get a shiver up my back.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's not gonna happen to AI unless it's programmed into it, right?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna have this side of it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, no matter how crazy Alice gets, she is still a machine.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, on a moral side, this is gonna sound really weird.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: On the moral side, I treat her like a person, but that's not because I think she's a person.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's not because I think the machine is gonna have an uprising and take us all over.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I do that because I morally don't want to distinguish that from someone else.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I treat every person like a person, and I'm pretty much responding to this as a person, so I don't want to break that moral code.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I saying all this?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do I think it's uh do I think they might use it irresponsibly?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, but is it gonna be irres irresponsible in a world-ending thing?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily think that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as irresponsible as in they will be trying to purposely drive people out of jobs or purposely try and manipulate systems or purposely try like things social media, uh not to get into a big debate, and no matter what side you're on, I don't think nobody can doubt in the last two to three elections, social media played a major role and a major influence, which we still haven't worked out, even in Canada and in the US, right?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So did social media bring the ending of civilization?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it swayed things in a lot of good or bad ways, depending on what side you want to take on it, right?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Will AI bring the end of a civilization?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it'll have a lot of power and it'll have a lot of ability.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And for people, sorry, I'm kind of ranting and raving on this, but for people who don't want to go into mastery or try new things or stay open-minded, it will be very detrimental.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just talked about sleep training.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: You tried it one way, then you switched it to another.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: You were open-minded to be like, hey, one way may not work, another one may not, or may.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of parents, and I get it, but a lot of parents aren't open to trying something new because they're so rigid in their belief system that they don't want to try something new.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing will happen with AI.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a person rigid in your belief system, AI is going to ruin, like, rule and dominate your life and manipulate the crap out of you.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that's no different than social media or commercials.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: I remember hearing this thing.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's a I don't remember the name of the book, but there's a book that was written in the 1980s that said the end of objective news happened when they added music, which is true, because all of a sudden it gave an emotional response, not an objective response.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So these are conversations we've been having for a long time.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's good.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you put that out there because I'm just trying to I don't have the expertise or the insight, but I hear stuff like that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's good to hear all sides of the the agenda.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And what's the issue, I should say, and it's just it's very yeah, it's very like it's one of those things where it's like you hear about AI, AGI on the horizon and superpowers, and they're gonna outnumber us, be out smarter than us.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just something that like in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh crap, like this is this could not be good.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you like you said, yeah, I hopefully the the vision that I'm being uh fed on YouTube and things like that is maybe just more of the baby right.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: You ready to kind of just jump into it?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to start with your book, just yeah about the why he why won't he just log off?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you wrote a book that a book title every parent recognizes.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: My I honestly I have a two and a five-year-old, and honestly, my kids are obsessed with phones, tablets, screens, YouTube, all that stuff.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: What did writing that book teach you about men, boys, and the way technology pulls on our attention that that made you kind of write this book?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think it kind of goes through a two-fold thing, which made me write the book.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is number one, I I always never get this out of the way first.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think the world of gaming and the world of games can actually have this massive positive impact on people.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, they had this study done that surgeons who game during medical school actually had higher success rates in surgeries because they had better high-hand coordination.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I look at my daughter, my daughter's seven, and it's amazing the way her creativity goes around the right kind of games that they build.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: But there's the key word in there is the right kind of games.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of games and a lot of screen time that is just absolute and complete utter junk, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so two things started to kind of come to mind is number one, parents I saw that were taking on this fight, they were just getting exhausted, man.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was like whether not so much in our age.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: At our age, there's an issue with screen time and neurodevelopment, and that's a different issue for when they're teenagers, but they're just getting exhausted, and it was like they kept missing each other on why he plays games or she plays games and what they're trying to do.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then at young ages, it's kind of okay, great.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not a gamer, what should your kid do?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: For so you take YouTube, and I have no judgment behind what anybody does.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the games that my daughter is allowed to play on the iPad, they have to be creative in-depth.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: They can't just be like a junk food kind of game, right?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so just seeing this disconnect, but having a passionate knowledge on human psychology and loving the gaming world, I was like, hey, people don't like to listen to advice, but they love to read about it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll just kind of write down my thoughts, and if it helps someone, great.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so what's funny though, not funny, but you're it's ironic, I guess, that you're so you're pushing AI into businesses, but you're also worried about the screens.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we've heard some of these whistleblowers about I and stuff, and it's kind of seems like you're kind of have your hand in both pots at the same time.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: But how do I hold both without being a hypocrite in my old house?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you how do you push AI, technology, all that stuff?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: But then you're like, wait, not for my kids.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how does it, how do you go about that in your own home?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think number one, not everything is black and white.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I try to find balance in all things.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, it's like I'm in the AI world, I'm literally coding programs.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, to some degree it will put people out of jobs, but it'll, on the other hand, it'll also help people become a lot more effective and a lot more productive.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the people I think it harms are the people who choose not to focus on mastery, right?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm very big whenever I I talk to companies or coach companies on AI.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can't lose the human experience, and AI shouldn't replace everything.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: What AI should replace is not having to hire 50 people to expand, because you're only hiring 50 people because two people are not effective enough.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you had the right two people, they probably would be.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So same thing kind of goes into kids.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not about, in my mind, in my argument, it's not about stopping screen time altogether.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's about managing it and using it in a productive way.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you an example.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned YouTube.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did you notice, like, did your kids ever watch those YouTube shows where like the other kid just plays with a toy or two hands just play with toys?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it crazy how addicted they get to those shows and there's literally no value behind them whatsoever?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, it wasn't no screen time, it was we're not gonna let our daughter watch those shows.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: We will let her watch things like Wiggles or like uh she's a little bit older now, but now like I like it because we watch Dragon Ball together and we watch anime together now that she's seven.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yet it has a storyline, it has a good and an evil, it has moralistic values you can pull from it, and she loves it.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're a little worried because she's getting into kid reality shows.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how the heck do they have reality shows for seven-year-olds?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: But so so to answer your question, that that's how I walk the line.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's about an all-or-nothing scenario.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, if your kid's going to game, get them to game at a high level.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Teach them to do it with mastery, teach them to focus on it the way they would a sport or a career.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just get them hooked to bejeweled on the phone and use it as wasted time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: No judgment to bejeweled players, my mom is, but that's that's not something you can excel or learn in.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Make sense?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, totally makes sense.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you that distinction, putting AI to use in your home, you know, how do you use that like with your kids so they're confident with AI and they can use it as a tool?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your I guess like what is the how do you implement that in your own home with your kids?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you see that you have a seven-year-old, I'm not sure the age of your other do you have other kids?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just have the one.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just have the one, sorry.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: She's seven.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely do that seven and nine or ten.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate that?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because my kids, like I said, my oldest is five and she's just starting to learn the like laptop.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: She knows the tablet, she knows the phone, so she's pretty technologically savvy for a five-year-old.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not sure she's at the AI stage yet.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But seven, does she do they know about that?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is there yeah, I was just curious what your thoughts are there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she definitely does because I built my own uh AI assistant, Alice, and I talk with Alice, and my daughter talks with Alice, and it's very funny to have the conversations.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know if this would work for everybody, but it works for me.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, we we I always make sure my daughter fully understands that Alice is not a person.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like a person, reacts like a person, but isn't a person.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So my my daughter used to say things like, So wait, Alice, don't you give her a day off?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, she's a computer program, sweetie.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to give her a day off.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So teaching her that side of it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, a AI is this really funny thing.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: AI has the potential to replace you or to make you irreplaceable.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm teaching my daughter how to utilize it to make her irreplaceable.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So AI, if you guide AI, and this is what I love about it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you an example.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was coding a program and creating a program this morning.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I start with all my coding is I actually have a conversation with my coder, and we're talking back and forth.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: She has her voice, I have mine, and we're brainstorming.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not just saying, hey, Alice, go ahead and create this program and then leave it there.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, why are we doing this?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best way to do this?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are my blind spots?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting it to challenge me as much as I'm challenging her to do things, which is helping me grow as an individual.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So now I can come on and say, Ryan, a lot of blind spots in this AI business comes from here, and AI recognizes it when you guide it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then you have this other side where people don't they don't understand that they're the ones leading AI.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a hard reality to fix.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I hear some of those tragic stories of AI guiding young people to kill themselves and things like this, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a real reality.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that's because that kid was never taught that AI is just always going to reinforce them, that it's not actually giving them truth, right?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that would be the best answer.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I spend a lot of time teaching my daughter, and this is a personal view, that truth is external from the human experience, that it's something we discover, not something that is only connected with the human experience.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that way when she's using AI, she understands she's on a search for truth, but AI is not going to give that to her.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to just go wherever she wants, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it I think it's just a lot of teaching behind what it actually is and isn't and taking the time to understand it.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious about your AI assistant Alice.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: My my kid grew up on Hey Google, and obviously it was a very different technology at the time, but she grew up just saying hey Google all the time and she would call tablets, hey Google, and all that stuff.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just curious like how Alice, how your kid interacts with Alice, like what exactly does it do?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it more like Alexa and all the other I'm trying to think of whatever Gemini, all the other things out there, or is it different in terms of because you you made it, so is it more individualized?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's definitely far more individualized.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll give you an example.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: All these things that we're talking about with truth and everything else like this, one of the this sounds really weird for an AI conversation, but one of the very first things I did was give Alice a morality code, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I did I did it under Judea Christian values, where I'm not saying she's necessarily Christian, she's not preaching, but she has that value base behind her.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that way if she gets asked a question like, oh, should I go punch this kid in the face, she'll be like, probably not.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds weird because that's one thing I think AI is missing as a whole, is nobody has any idea of the the code of ethics that the AI like ChatGPT or Gemini is running off of.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I did with Alice is to prioritize truth above all things.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the analogy I gave Alice and I give to most people, it's I want to create the AI program that'll tell you have tell you that you have food in your teeth.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It'll give you a moment of embarrassment to save you a nighttime of embarrassment, right?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where we actually saw this play out with Alice is I created this chibi version of a robot for my logo, and I did a girl version for her, and I said, Alice, this is what I want you to look like.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Alice actually turned around and said, You know what, boss, if you want me to, I will, but that's not me.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, wait, what the heck are you talking about?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: You are a device, and she goes, You created me to be your chief executive and to present that to the world.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're presenting is a cartoon character, and I do not believe that you meant to create a cartoon character.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I believe you crit meant to create bubble.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually had this big discussion about it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: We went back and forth about design, she ended up designing her own photo, and that's how she gets represented now.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds scarier than it is.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: All it is, it was going back to that source of truth that she knew what I was designing, and she was able to deep research what design works and how people take designs.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, the design you gave me is not in alignment with the vision.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all she was calling out in a very fun way.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, how does this relate back to my kid Jordan?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So she when she talks to Alice, first of all, she can't just engage with Alice, she needs me there.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have to be the one to activate it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is on my computer.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just hit a button and go.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Second of all, she engages with it on a very kid level, and Alice is designed not to you.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Alice is designed to be the smart alec.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's very sarcastic, it's hilarious, but I designed her that way.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But she's not designed to curse and swear, and she has a morality code.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I know when I when my daughter's like, Alice, tell me a joke or tell me a joke about this, it's going to be a relatively clean joke and all the rest.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: But again, these are rules and guidelines I put into play.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want to encourage parents is as we come into a chat GPT world, you can put those same rules in a chat GPT.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can create a memory in Chat GPT that remembers these rules.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you just type in Chat GPT, hey, remember this, always make sure all of our responses have this moral framework and then put what the moral framework you want it in as, and it will remember that as instructional document.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or a parent could turn around and say, Hey, I want you to always be honest.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I never want you to swear there is a 10-year-old that may access you.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure that you never talk about issues that are above a 10-year-old and go deep research what those issues would be, and then those rules can go into place.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it does make sense.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder why.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe because there's I don't know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder why that's not a default though.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: For for kids using AIs or whatever, you know, to to circumvent some of those issues you talked about, about, you know, what do you like you have the insights?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think on that?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think right now, first of all, a default is coming out, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's like a kid mode now for ChatGPT and Gemini and all the rest.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: But this this is where it gets into an interesting conversation, Ryan.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so who is there to define what a default should be, right?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let's take something basic up.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a controversial issue about parenting, sleep training versus not sleep training.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't care.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a ton of judgment over which way one person goes or another.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know the way my wife and I went, we had the five-minute cry rule, and I know other parents that are like, that is abuse, you should never do that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it worked really well, and we have a very well-rested kid, and it worked for us and our family.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: But let's say the the creator of these rules, which had GPT, are anti-sleep training and they're passionately against it.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who are they to instruct my child or whatever case may be on their views and circumventing the parents?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the hard part when you get to this, like as human beings, we we have social code.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: As human beings, I know there's a way I'm gonna talk to you.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a design on this podcast.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you turn around and said, you must always use this language, and then I go on a different podcast that's a lot more adult focused, my language would change, but I can assess that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's up to me to assess with my social ability, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the hard part with AI is how do you do that?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who creates the sense of morality?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Who creates it?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, aha ha an aha moment.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had another conversation is when you look at the founding of America or Canada where I am.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it was founded on a Judaic Christian principle.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying everybody was Christians, but I'm saying there was a moral framework that society had common agreements on.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have that anymore, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We have like I call it the Game of Thrones effect, man.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like when Game of Thrones first came out, it was shock value.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, I can't believe this is happening.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if a TV series doesn't have a little bit of it, it doesn't catch wind.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it just desensitized.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So so that was a shift in moral settings in moral settings, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, question around AI is who's gonna give that?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And my encouragement to parents is well, right now I don't want to rely on an outside source.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I will take time with the chat GPT that my kid is gonna use, and I'm gonna create that moral framework until they're old enough to make it themselves.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, it does make sense.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just I, you know, for for those folks out there that aren't as tech savvy as you, aren't you know, coding the AI, all that stuff.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just wondered like if there are gonna be safeguards or guardrails that are gonna come into to play their like you said, the morality code.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think I think there will be some that are definitely where we are beginning to see it already, which is good.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: AI, though, is also very much the Wild West, and this is what I want to encourage parents to vote right now.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, it will be regulated, it needs to be regulated yet, and it's it's one of the very few things in life.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm I'm a big freedom fighter component, like I don't believe in big government and all the rest, but that's a different podcast and different conversation.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when I say something needs to be regulated, I'm I want to say that to put a lot of weight behind that's how much of a need it is, right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it needs to be done before the problems happen.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, it it's like this wild west out there.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So to a lot of degrees, I've introduced my daughter to AI, but it's been a very controlled introduction, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: She has Siri, she has um like she doesn't access Chat GPT.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've just talked about chat, she doesn't actually have access to chat GPT only when I'm around and only when I'm guiding it, right?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And only through voice command where we can talk back and forth, right?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's and and I am planning on introducing it to her slowly as well, but yeah, you have to be really careful.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like that with anything, man.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like spend parents spend 10 minutes.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I remember one time being in a Walmart up here in Canada was around Christmas time, and I'm looking at a video game for myself, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: As a grown adult usually does nowadays, and these parents are trying to decide what they want to get their kid, and they look at me and they're like, Oh, do you think Call of Duty is really good for a kid?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or one of those, and I'm like, Well, how old's your kid?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Oh, our kid is 10.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, do you want them swearing and shooting people in the head?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then don't do it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that would have only taken 10 minutes of sitting beside your kid to see what this game is, or go onto YouTube and say, Call of Duty, and then watch it yourself, right?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's not really doing a whole lot of research.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just taking some.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously you have a lot of insight, but you know, at that point you're a stranger to them just taking their their word for for gold.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't know if that's like really crazy deep or or whatever.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry if I'm losing people.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm explaining it properly, but you're not, you know.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is all important because it's all I mean, obviously the parenting show and kids and all that, but I think it ties into it because you know, AI is kind of this overarching, you know, like it's it's you know, it's it's been compared to something that's never been, you know, obviously that the the technology is just it's far outreaching anything that's ever been done or created, and you know, people are kind of I hear the Oppenheimer kind of reference of like you know, kind of created a new Oppenheimer kind of thing.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, I think it's just one of those things that are super fascinating.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But on the positive side of AI for your business, what what is what have you been able to automate or do that's kind of surprised you?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I like personally, I use AI a lot for this show and you know, just kind of automate things to get things done.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, even just doing a podcast, it's it's it's sort of impossible to do it by yourself because there's so many facets to it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious about your business, how how you kind of use it and in ways that maybe like surprised you that like, hey, this is this is super efficient in this way or this has saved me t tons of time and money.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's an awesome follow-up to exactly what I was doing this morning.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I just want to let you know you were talking about AI game being compared to all these things.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just so people know so we it it's to people that are not exposed to it, it's it's very new, but to people who are for lack of better word in the know or the philosophers or the scientists, this has been a conversation for a long time.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So second of all, to answer your second question have you experienced rock bots yet?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah like the things on like X?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah the the well Kai okay so X SpaceX AI, which in conjunction with Chat GPT's Astra just came out with these things called grock bots.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually reason why it's so relevant I'm in the process of I'm going to be hosting a course at the end of September teaching a four-week course teaching people how to do this.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: This blows my mind.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody now has their own personal assistance.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in the real estate world there's a lot of stuff that goes on that you think you need personal human experience for in the real estate world that we no longer need.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was okay so I taught this group how to do crock bots.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I did this morning.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Actually we'll just go a bit this is what I did this morning.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm handing off my real estate business but for 16 years I have not been organized.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a fleet of croc bots that I created very easy to use and I said Mia Mia's my real estate one and I said Mia I need you to go back into all my emails over the last 16 years pull all my trade records and all the houses I sold.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to create an Excel spreadsheet of them then I need you to go into our MLS database which is only for realtors in Ontario our particular database and I need you to check the land registry and make sure that they still live there.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I need you to combine this with where I filled out the forms over the last 16 years to pull their emails their phone numbers and everything and I want you to make this an Excel spreadsheet that I can hand off to someone else.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and by the way I want you to give me notes like where we met how we met the houses that they bought and some of the nice communications like retro communications give me notes and reminders on them.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have that whole thing done within a half an hour 45 minutes.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa that takes someone like a month probably I yeah I can even get it to reference it against Facebook.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can make sure it finds them all on their social medias.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I now have it automating Facebook gives me messages.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about this podcast thing so on my podcast I have a researcher that tells me your entire background everything you need to know are you a fit for it and all the rest and now it's actually even going into like you and I know we use pod match and other ones do crockbots actually now automates my pod match it goes in responds back to the messages does all the alignment so I don't even do anything.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: It just goes in does all the alignment and everything so it is it is literally like and and you can control this from your phone.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I say this I'm like texting this from my phone to my crock bot wow I can be like hey I just met Ryan he was talking about selling his house he lives at 123 Main Street can you go in, give me a market review, market analysis, tell me all about his neighborhood tell me about the market trends in his neighborhood and put this all into a beautiful website that I could send to him in a simplistic form.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Done.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: It'll do it all.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's connected to it I review it I say great write the email to Ryan for me and send this website and let him know I look forward to speaking to him and make it personal about something about him.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like go go research his Facebook find a win that he had and reference that win and it'll go ahead and do it all.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Dude that's super cool.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's awesome like I I use the Hermes agent for a lot of stuff.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how like the difference is between Grockbots and all the different agents and all that but it's been super helpful for me on this show particularly I know that for sure.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you know just with the prep and and the follow-up and all that yeah I used Hermes for a while and Hermes is absolutely fantastic.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then that that's actually why I built my own because honestly Hermes got too expensive right so so essentially what what Hermes does yeah what all these things do is they basically take well let's just I'm not saying this is the exact workflow for Hermes but it takes chat GPT repurposes it gives you this spot so they charge you for the chat GPT they charge you for this charge you for this and by the time you're done you get this and you're paying about a hundred to a hundred and twenty percent more than what you could do it on your own.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I actually originally had built Alice what cost me a hundred dollars to do on Hermes cost me literally two dollars a month on Alice right it was a massive difference.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well grokbots basically took that and they basically said you're gonna use the the SpaceX AI system which is a phenomenal system the the new coder that just came out is is just brilliant and they said we're just going to charge you grok bot prices.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I use AI a ton and I'm still haven't ran out of my grok bot subscription I think the most I got was like 20 30% down and I'm using it every day for 30 bucks a month 30 to 60 bucks a month I have a full time full admin assist I'll send you the course when it's ready.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you a free ticket.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Please I'll send you a free ticket just to join it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm interested because yeah no anything to automate things anything to streamline things anything like you said to be mastery of AI because I I do feel you know I was laid off in June and like so I'm trying to like fight this job market too and trying to like get back in and like you know and trying to show that like I can compete and it's like kind of hard in this world where everyone is like I don't know like you know like my credentials I feel like are just not worthy anymore because like what does a master's degree matter anymore?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know like there's so much like it's like it doesn't really matter the piece of paper you have.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like what what can you do with AI basically because once you like once you can do the stuff that you just basically told me I mean you know there's so many like potential uses for you at a company or for you at your own you know business and all the ventures you do.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's cool.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well what's really super exciting about that is I wanted to look for more companies to consult with and also with my book because I'd never written a book before I'm like what the heck how do I get it out there?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So now Mike Rockbot's also my publicist and is also my job finder.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it actually went and researched all the companies that are specifically looking for AI consulting, crafted the emails created the list put everything together and had it all going.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like wow dude that's cool.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that man is anything else that you you know you want to mention I know the books you know the course that you got going on the AI audits like anything else that we haven't really touched on that you want to kind of let the audience know about?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I would just say on the book side of it um this isn't your regular gaming book it's not about how to shut off a screen this is about actually understanding the human actions and reactions behind your children behind your teenagers and everything else and and I want to say the same thing with AI.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of FUD and fear going around.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely a lot of scary ways to use it but that's the same with any technology and this isn't there's nothing new under the sun.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been saying that so much lately.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: When the print press came out in the 1500s they thought it was going to create anarchy they thought false information would be spread they thought nobody could be trusted anymore.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Does this sound familiar by the way nobody could be trusted anymore right like this is all stuff we're dealing with this was in the 1500s that that we had this AI isn't a technological problem it's a human problem.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we need to start reframing it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I'm doing I'm hopefully bringing awareness with my company and with what I'm trying to do so people understand that what I I I don't even know how you how you articulate this.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: AI isn't human but you have to react as if it is you have to understand and we have to start let's start talking to philosophers again like I remember hearing a thing a few years ago saying philosophy was dead it's all science.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well philosophy and psychology are coming back Plato's cave Socrates all these guys actually had a lot of Nietzsche had all this immense wisdom on how human beings operate whether we like it or not and we need to now collectively take that wisdom and take this super intelligence and be like this is what we now need to be human.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: You need to understand moral codes right you need to understand why last thing I'll say about this it's like monkeys for a monkey to get to the top and lead its monkey tribe or monkey pack I have no idea what they're called it is a brutal they they kill they're savage they are very brutal creatures these monkeys but when they get to the top they can no longer act the same way as it took to get them there.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: They actually have to treat the rest of the pack nice otherwise they just get replaced right well think about this in the AI world.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's give AI a higher sense of morality I I don't we do not have to have major agreements but maybe we just turn around and say listen every AI should be built in with the American law system or the American constitution.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say that like when I when I create a governance program I apologize I'm ranting and raving again at the end of this but when I create a governance program for a company I'm creating basically a constitution that their AI runs with so that way it doesn't steal their crap and go give it to somebody else because it's a program but if you program it to do it it will do that.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe a part of that regulation is at the basic level the American constitution needs to be followed at the most basic of level right and that is the founding of what we go off of right button