Latest / Ready To Drink Podcast / Building a Profitable THC Beverage Brand & Why the Industry Must Step Up Now I Chris Fontes

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Building a Profitable THC Beverage Brand & Why the Industry Must Step Up Now I Chris Fontes · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Chris Fonce, founder and CEO of High Spirits.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, Chris.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, we're gonna start out and we're gonna get a little bit about your story, but let's give a kind of a cloud level overview about high spirits and what it is you guys do.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, certainly.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh high-level overview, high spirits is a uh hemp product brand uh where we bring ingestibles and drinkables to consumers nationally.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we focus on quality, uh, strong formulations.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: We put a lot of effort into it's not just water and some THC uh and add a little carbonation.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we actually had a James Beer nominated chef out of Canada with a lot of experience with uh cannabis, uh formulating our drinks initially.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we we don't go no sugar, we go low sugar, so it's a little sweet, but it's not totally flavorless, and it's also not crazy, crazy sugary like a soda.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were the first brand uh to put Delta 9 into anything in a very intentionally dosed way and have been driving the category ever since.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's talk a little bit about the a lot of this is B2B uh podcast audience and stuff like that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: But we've got about 60% that are distributors, retailers, and other brand ownership and seniors.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little bit about kind of where you guys are.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was pulling up the heat map and you guys are all up and down the East Coast and Michigan and stuff like that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Where can people find you on the shelf versus DTC?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, DTC is a small part of our business right now, comparatively speaking.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're kind of retail forward, if you will.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we're in we're in 18 states with beverage uh distributors proper.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then in several states where we ship directly to retailers where we do not have yet a distributor, but somebody still really wants and likes our products and wants to sell them.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so you you can see on the heat map all over.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I could go, you know, state by state by state, but again, mostly Midwest and and uh sort of you know middle of the country and east, um, is that's the best opportunity for hemp right now, anyway.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh your home base is Colorado, if I remember.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And how about you guys from a company?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Are you guys one location in Colorado or kind of how is the physically spread out?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh everyone's pretty much remote.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in in these days, it's so common to just have like no physical office.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: We had a physical office for years.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: We were doing our own copacking and shipping for a long time.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, we just got to the point where we realized let's let someone who specializes in co-packing do this because they're really good at it, and we can absolve ourselves of all the other overhead of trying to figure it out.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we did exactly that.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're all remote.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh, what's the what's the size and and like how many employees and then do you guys bring contractors in and stuff?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're a we're a tight company.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have a staff of five essentially, and then we contract out um all the ancillary things that the five of us don't do.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but our mission has always been to just be light, snappy, and and not have a lot of overhead.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of these some of our competitors got really excited about the category and went and took a bunch of capital and hired real heavy C-suite.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and for some of them, that is working for them.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a methodology.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, as an alcohol guy, you probably recognize that is the methodology to some extent.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but for me, who's got experience in small business, uh, I've never really had a bunch of capital backing.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was always like, how do we bring a product to market with a little bit of money that we can put in ourselves?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then we eat what we kill until we're to where we want to be.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been bootstrapping this the whole time.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and because of that, we don't quite have the market share of some of the larger folks.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what we are and have been since day one is profitable.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that makes us way stable.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's no big volatility, there's no big like spike and then a crash that we didn't know where it came from because we don't really know how we got the spike in the first place.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's uh it's just a different animal.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I I respect that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times uh people will be uncomfortable and to share that, but it's like I've I'm 17 years of 100% owner of my business and a solopreneur, and I've had employees every once in a while with different ventures, but it was never more than like two or three at a time.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was always intentional like that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was always uh to because the whole goal was my freedom.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and that was really it was if things got too big, you know.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've been at places where I managed 107 employees, and like that's an amazing thing to provide those opportunities.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but at the same time, it it changes the lifestyle that you might might want to live at different stages in your life.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I respect that completely.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I've managed about 50 people at any one given time, and there's just no fun in that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a person for it, and and I was that person at the phase that I was in in my life, and then as I got older, I wasn't that person anymore.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have the energy for it, that was for sure.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but let's let's talk a little bit about let's go back to your story in your life.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, Chris, you are let's say you're 18, 19 years old, you just graduated high school.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you geographically, and then what's going on in your life at that moment?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um 18, 19 years old.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I was living on my own.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Southern California.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was a DJ.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I uh spun vinyl at uh various raves uh in the LA scene.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh lots of trips down to Mexico and back for various reasons.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was heavily involved in we'll say the alternative uh scene uh in in Southern California at that time, and uh was heavily involved in the in the legacy market as well then.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um at 21, I I had a kid that was sort of unexpected, and everything changed.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, some of the younger listeners probably don't know what it's like uh to be in a state where weed is illegal and can send you to jail for a decade or more.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this was the case still when I was a young man in in California, and then I moved to Washington State, was also the case at that time in Washington State.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I uh I decided to not participate in the the plant anymore in fear of you know having a fatherless kid, more or less.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think about 15 years off of consumption or uh participation in the space altogether at that time.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I really mean that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I um I'll connect with you is that I started this business 17 years ago and it it started out as a band booking and management.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was doing I did all independent bands around the Mid Atlantic region.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the music scene is very near and dear to me, is uh the foundation of how we how this business originally started.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I started meeting all the suppliers and brands at the events, and they just wanted to sponsor our shows, and then it turned into all that.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The music scene, I I just you know, is when you have little kids, it's just not as easy, right?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly why it changed.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: You got little kids, it's hard and and it's expensive, and and you just don't have the money or the time or the energy to do it anymore.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And after a while, you get out, you know, after 10 years of being out of the scene, you're like, I don't know, man, Netflix sounds pretty good right now instead of going out tonight.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but just recently, you know, all of our kids are now getting uh close to being of age.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: My our oldest is uh is in his mid-20s, and our second's already an adult working on his own, and our two youngest are uh getting their permits, or they have their permits or getting their licenses soon.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this new window of like, oh hey, we're gonna have some time on our hands and a little bit more flexibility.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe we get back into some concerts once in a while.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way to that's the way to do it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I we have a blended family from 11 to 20.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the uh 14 and 15-year-old have been with me the whole time, obviously.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: They I tell the stories about the beginning days of Free Mine and my 15-year-old daughter who's really into both into live music, but really especially her.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, Hey, when are you gonna start doing that again?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so this summer will probably take her to her first concert, or not first concert, but uh concert where we can actually share some of that time together in that live music.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I love for live music.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting like talking to people certainly that have kids in this industry, and like let's talk a little bit about being a parent in a stigmatized industry, because that's something I don't that's a topic I don't ever think I talked about with any guests before.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it'd be an interesting.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how did how kind of how do you talk about it with your kids?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And is it just a regular commodity type thing, or is it kind of do you present it the way you would with any other business or anything like that professionally?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh both.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: We present the business side of it as well as the normalization of consumption.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And look, for me, uh, you know, I was I was the just say no age, right?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the the dare age, and was told like if you smoke pot, you're gonna end up in a gutter dead, or you'll be killing people before the week is up, and just like ridiculous things, right?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: The eggs on the frying pan, man.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're about the same age, yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then you know, peer pressure wins, and you try your first hit and you get high, and you're like, Well, this is not nearly the dangerous thing that everyone made it up to be.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you end up, you know, having a really good time on that, and you're like, maybe they're lying about everything else, and eventually start trying other things.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, you get to a point where you're like, Oh, they weren't lying about that one.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I should not be mad again.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's real.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were left to just figure it out, um, which is I think is the most dangerous way to experiment, is like, I'm not gonna tell you anything except for this other guy that's you know untrustworthy, is gonna give you a bunch of guidelines, and you're like, okay, John in a 1982 Corolla, being my expert on drug intoxicant use.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was just a different thing.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so for my kids, I've always taken the approach of like, if I tell you not to do any of it, you're gonna be in the same boat I was.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do it anyway, and you're gonna do it uneducatedly, which is dangerous.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So from a young age, it I didn't like thrust it upon them unnecessarily, but when they started asking questions like, what are drugs?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, drugs are things that you put in your body that has some sort of impact to your body.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: This includes ibuprofen, it includes caffeine, it includes sugar, it includes alcohol, it includes what we would call street drugs, like you know, marijuana and ecstasy and cocaine and et cetera.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then from that, I just allow them to ask questions and I just am very blunt.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a good example is they'll be like, Well, does you know, does heroin feel good?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, yeah, it feels amazing.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why people do it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's also kind of like Russian roulette where it feels really good, but you might die anytime.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't try that one if I were you because it's really dangerous.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it feels amazing.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's why people get hooked and they can't drop it, plus the physical dependency.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I teach them about that and they go, Yeah, I'm probably not gonna try that one.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what about cannabis?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that that one's prevalent in our house, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about that often.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's you know, there's the risk factors are you being too lazy and spending too much money on it, frankly.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, use in moderation, don't build up such a tolerance.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: You need a thousand milligrams to fill anything because it's just expensive and it's burning out your endocannabinoid system.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I teach them all of this, and so they have a very like adult appreciation for these things, and they're not rushing to go out and do them.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And they've had friends that like are already vaping, and and you know, the younger ones, the older ones, they're they're consumers, but um the younger ones, they have friends that vape and like are taking gummies and getting messed up at school and all these things, and and they're just like, Why are you guys doing this?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's so fun to get high and blah, blah, blah.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why don't you do it?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, I have access to a million gummies, and I'm not I'm waiting until I'm an adult because why?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this doesn't make any sense.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think they have access to it.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've told them if you're gonna experiment, I'd rather you experiment at home, just like alcohol.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Colorado has a law where uh you can legally give your underage children alcohol in the privacy of your own home.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really intended to teach them safe consumption.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel the same thing with cannabis.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna consume, I'd rather you consume at home so I could teach you what safe consumption looks like.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I just, you know, I don't treat it like the big boogeyman.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't lie about the dangers.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh cannab cannabinoid hypermesis syndrome is a real thing now, and we have all sorts of speculations of why that is, but there's some key things you can do to avoid lower your risk profile uh based on what we think we know about right now.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just uh blunt.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's been really it's been a really positive experience for my older kids is sort of like you know, having kids is sort of like a test.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna try this and let's see how it works with your life, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like your first kid goes out into the world and becomes an adult, and you're like, all right, answer time.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been taking an 18-year-old test.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how well I did.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and he's doing great.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually now in our industry.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: He works at a THC bottling facility, um, bottling and canning a lot of the products that your customer or your listeners may be familiar with.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's been uh it was kind of a long-winded answer, but it's something about so it was perfect because it's uh it's also something that's not talked about.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that as in that moment, I just like I said, there's no questions in advance.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the moment, I just kind of listen to what you're saying, and I'm like, let's talk about being with dad and being in the industry and what does that mean?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we're in the we're in the same page about it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my kids are my kids are the same way, and it's one of those things where I'm like, for me, for me specifically, they've seen the other side where I'm three years sober uh last uh December or in this past December, I finished three years sober from alcohol.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it this THC products were what got me sober.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I found out that you know the THC wasn't the same way as alcohol, it wasn't a daily dependency thing, it was a periodic thing, it was non-habitual, it was non-ritual, and and it was one of those things that I was able to use that and non-alcoholic beer and get into sobriety.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so my kids, my kids lived it, you know, and and I went to rehab and and they've had to you know drive me to counseling sessions and group sessions, and now all of a sudden they see this different version of me in the past three years, and this other version that's more productive, more present, more intentional.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, I love the fact that my kids got to see what the positive attributes in real time can do to somebody in this industry when done in moderation and responsibly.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm you know, I'm gonna preface this next statement with I'm not shaming anyone for their vices or their adult decisions.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the point of my comment.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go to extremes, which is never really a good thing, if you're an extreme alcoholic or you're an extreme cannabis consumer, we call them a stoner, right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Back in the day.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a parent and you're a stoner, or you're a parent and you're an alcoholic, those kids have two very different experiences at home.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: We all kind of know what the quintessential alcoholic family looks like.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not the same.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, there's happy drunks and there's angry drunks, and those are also two very different experiences for the child.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But consumers of can, if it's the only thing you do, now if you're like smoking weed and like hitting bumps of coke on the side, that's a different thing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just a casual cannabis consumer and like you get high even every night after dinner or something, and your parent, your kids are around, they're seeing a parent who's relaxing and suddenly becoming very present and silly.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, you want to play Legos on the floor for three hours?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm down.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get let's get to town.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna build a spaceship.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like things that you might not even do as an adult because you're like, I don't know, I'm tired.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Getting on the ground feels like a lot.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't play Legos that long.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Get a little high, and suddenly you're like, guys, I want to play Minecraft for three hours, let's go.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just such a different experience.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I'm gonna get drunk and swear at my wife and beat my kids.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just, you know, it's not comparable.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I I often like to think, what would have happened if in the 30s we had a constitutional amendment to allow for the provision and sale of THC and left alcohol illegal.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: What would our society look like?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: What would our species look like?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a whole different vibe.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or even gave them equal runways, or even equal runways, yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so that's the cool part about where I see things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna say just about like where we're trying to get things in Pennsylvania is that's where we w that's where this bill is.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: This bill is an equal runway bill, and it really just levels the playing field to be able to participate in that way.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: But also for the for what you're saying is exactly that is the consumer's gonna choose what the consumer is gonna choose no matter where they are.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm you know, of of I'm not an affiliated voter politically, but let's all be honest.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's very much like an access to to free market, and and it's where it is the American way, despite what color you are and what way you vote.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's not many of us in the unaffiliate, it's actually where we are with things is that it's we we're fighting for the cons trying to force the consumer doesn't work anymore.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I from my outside, being 20 years in the alcohol business and loving it and supporting it, and still to this day supporting it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Every decision that's being made divisively, like to like is just such short-sightedness to not just accepting and being like, let's just show all the consumers what it is, the benefit we can do for them, and let's let them decide.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And let's just cut the sales bullshit out of the whole equation and the manipulation and the propaganda and just let them start choosing.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think what we're realizing is the consumers are gonna be strong.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: We used to always say the customer's always right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think we really need to remind ourselves of the same thing.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they're gonna pick whatever they pick.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't put it on the shelf and on the website, they're gonna go make it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going back to the bathtub gin stuff because they already the scale of which this industry is is irreversible.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like that consumer is not gonna go, okay, government, thank you so much for letting me tease that for a couple years.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go back to drinking gin again.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not the case.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, there's this rhetoric out there that bourbon is really bourbon specifically is really frustrated with hemp drinks and that they are trying to block hemp drink uh opportunities.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I won't say whether I think that's true or not, uh, but I will say I think it's an interesting concept to try to imagine, like, you know, bourbon people, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're you're not like a casual, oh, I have a bourbon once a year.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, if you're a bourbon person, like you're a bourbon person.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna suddenly be like, I love my bourbons.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this$400 bottle and this$150 bottle, but this fizzy THC water is gonna totally change my bourbon purchasing.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, it's not.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you had a bourbon that was THC and non-alcoholic, maybe you'd get some of those folks to convert.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the decline in bourbon drinking right now is not really due to THC fizzy drinks, it's due to general health concerns.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I also suspect, and I'm gonna make a statement that I don't have data to back up in any way, shape, or form.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the last I a couple of times in the past six months, I don't drink much.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not anti-drinking.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'm old and it hurts now.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I try not to.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: But when I do, I like whiskey.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like old fashions.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I went out with a group of people, and like the age demographics at our age are kind of weird because, like, oh, one of my buddies is like six years younger than me, but he has a wife that's 10 years younger than him.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I'm hanging out with someone that's like almost 20 years younger than me that I like don't, you know what I mean?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm getting some like weird vibes from social circles I don't normally sit with.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I heard I've heard multiple people in the last couple months go, oh, whiskey, that's just like old man alcohol.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: No one else drinks that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it clued me into this thought that like, how many 25-year-olds are drinking whiskeys and bourbons right now?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's as prop.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was 20, it was like the refined gentleman thing to do, is have an old fashioned and a cigar, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that whole vibe, I was sort of like the last age where that was a thing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And below me, it's looked at as like old and like dumb.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think what's happening is like literally, people are dying off that we're burbot drinkers because they're getting too old, and the new generation isn't picking it up, so you're seeing it just disappear with the generations, is my it's you know, you're speculation.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna credibly credibly step in from an anecdotal standpoint of my experience in the alcohol industry, is what this is is exactly that.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cyclical cycle.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: What's interesting about this data point is in when craft beer came out, that what's going on with hemp infused beverages is exactly what's going on, what what I did with craft beer, and I managed dozens of brands throughout that process.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: The difference is they had access to loans from the bank and all these other things from an insurance standpoint, so it was able to scale faster and they were able to be able to invest in the proper education for the consumer.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where that bourbon is is the exact same thing when craft beer came in.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was Patch Blue Ribbon and all of the different brands, Miller Light, Coors Light, and all those guys constantly were trying to suppress craft beer and debunk it as unqual or not quality and unstable and all this other stuff.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And why would you pay that much for bitter, remember the bitter beer face?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: All that stuff was a was a direct result of Sierra Nevada, you know, pale ale and things like that.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and then where what's interesting about this one is it's usually internal, they usually fight amongst its their cells in the alcohol industry, but now they can't do that anymore because they that that movie already played.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and now they have to find somebody else.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's going on because you're exactly right.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: The consumer is out.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: The consumer's not drinking bourbon every day because that guy's 50 years old and his doctor told him to stop.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he might still he might still be drinking it on Fridays and Saturdays with his buddies during poker games and during that stuff, but it's no longer a Monday through Friday ritual.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that's where we need to accept as an adult beverage industry that we now have to, we're not gonna have monopoly categories anymore.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have fragmented categories as an adult beverage industry, and until we align correctly and then start working together to make sure the consumer just doesn't say, I'm done with all your bullshit, I'm gonna drink water from now on.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's where the next phase is, you know what I mean?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're all gonna be like, I'm done with yeah, and then liquid death takes the entire market because they're the only ones that can mark a water properly, apparently.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you think about it, that's exactly what they did.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: They said, Hey, we're gonna do water, but we're gonna hit the edgier, the you know, the craftier consumer, and that's who they went after.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so I'm sorry that you know a lot of these guys that listen, um, that that are in that industry, but it's not a dig as far as where it goes, it's maturity.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a maturation of the brand, and it's like now it's time to get into the strategy, get into the intention, and connect with the consumer base you have because they're not going to grow anymore.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when you accept that it's not going to grow anymore, you have to go deeper and stop going a mile wide and an inch deep and go deeper in that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little bit about like, I want to hear your perspective of like things that we can be doing right now.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to speak specifically in the hemp-infused beverage space in this lens.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: What are things you're involved in?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: List off for everybody to know, because I got it, I peeked on your LinkedIn.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You were very, very aggressive in the advocacy aspect of the industry.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So talk a little bit about why that's important to you and what organizations you're aligned with.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, certainly.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh currently, official positions is I'm the president of the U.S.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hemp Authority, which I'll talk a little bit more about.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll put a pin in that one.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm on the board of the U.S.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hemp Roundtable.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a member and I I think I'm still technically strategic advisor to Hemp Beverage Alliance.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be their policy chair.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was policy chair at the uh cannabis, uh the CBA, Cannabis Beverage Association, uh, which is now formed into CABA.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not part of CABA, but I interact with the executive director, Diana, there regularly.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're very good friends.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm very good friends with the executive director of AHA, American Healthy Alternatives, JD McCormick.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we talk regularly.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm uh previous policy chair at NIHC and still have ties there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Communicate with the executive director of uh Haifa regularly, uh Hemp Industry Farmers Association.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um same with the executive director of APA, uh, American Herbal Products Association.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I'm pretty sure, oh, I'm on like this weird committee with NCIA where it's like multi-industry conversations and strategies.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm I'm I'm around.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I touch, I think I touch most associations um that are doing work.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not really affiliated with One Hemp, but I'm not really affiliated with Attach.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um Attach is interestingly questionably not a hemp organization, which is a story for a different podcast.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and One Hemp is really, really wellness focused.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for high ratios, low dosage only.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're not really beverage fans or or other format fans.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, those that's that's my my uh involvement.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's pretty extensive.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been pushing regulations.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I've I'm not sure if I mentioned on the podcast yet, but we were the first ones to look at the Delta 9 legality and go, like, wait a minute, if you just do the math right, you can put this in a gummy at 10 milligrams and through put it through the mail.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why is no one doing this?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we did it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're the first ones to do it for months and months and months, and then basically taught the industry how to do it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Doing that, I recognized really fast that we need we can't just have like this gray area market forever.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: We need actual clear guidelines and legislation to keep bad actors out, to keep good products in market, and for just stability of the industry growth.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, pretty much since day one, I've been actively pushing for some form of legislation or regulations or both at state levels and the federal level.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm pretty passionate about making that happen.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is I've sort of like decided this is my life's work to normalize cannabis.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I can, if I can make a dent in the normalization in our in our species, I feel like I've done I've made a dent in our species.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like humans will be different if we have access to cannabis and if we don't, a la my earlier quote about 1930s.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so very passionate about it, been passionate about it since day one.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what could people be doing right now is one, get involved in a trade association and become a member.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to be rude about it, but at this point, if you're making money off of hemp and you're not supporting the fight financially, then what the hell are you doing in our space?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Please leave.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like everyone is sacrificing blood, sweat, and tears and crawling and scratching for every penny and driving to their capital and flying to DC and begging for regulations and pushing and doing everything we can.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not part of the push, then you're part of the problem at this point.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't care to interact with those folks anymore.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, number one, get involved in a trade association.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care who.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Figure out who you align with, go put dollars there.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number two, and this is the most important one that I wanted to come back to is US Hemp Authority, which I'll refer to as USHA, USHA.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the president of USHA.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're currently a certification standard.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Think of like a USDA organic, right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to be organic, you got to go through and have someone come look under the hood and verify that you're organic, and then they give you the seal and you can put it on your products.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's what USHA is today.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: What we're overhauling USHA to do that we're in the process right now that will be launched very soon is we're turning USHA into a proper self-regulatory organization.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: An SRO is a nonprofit entity that basically, it's not exactly this, but to try to visualize it for your listeners, it's sort of imagine a layer between the federal government and industry.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of the federal government directly regulating, the industry has this in-between layer of a nonprofit that has standards that you need to conform to in order to get your certification.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: That certification is also a tentative requirement to be distributed and to be in retail stores.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so at the end of the day, if you get your cert pulled because you're a bad actor, you're making non-clean product, et cetera, then your distributors and your retailers are going to hear that you've got your cert pulled.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And in theory, they should pull your product from the shelf and not allow it to be sold.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's some antitrust issues here about what we can and can't enforce.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of tricky to get an SRO off the ground.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like a you need a shot in the arm catch 22 moment, sort of like a new social media platform.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can't get people without people, but you need people to get people.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you get people?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with the SRO.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this moment of time where we're facing a ban is that shot in the arm moment for everyone to go, what should I be doing?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: What you should be doing is getting certified.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody in the space should be certified because that is how we're going to distinguish between good actors and bad actors.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you're doing proper label standards, you're using good products, good inputs, you're making clean products, you're marketing them appropriately, you're age-gating, you're not selling to kids, you're not putting cartoons on your label.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: All the things we all know is responsible, you can get certified.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So please go do so.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say thank you for the passion you have in this because my, I'm going to be open about this because I've expressed this before on this.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: My number one problem is when I hear people not being not with a fire in their ass about what's going on right now, because what people don't realize, in my experience watching regulatory markets and working within them, we have a very short window of making this opportunity.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And also, even just Pennsylvania.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have between now and June to make this happen.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's going to get kicked down and it could turn into another administration, another turnover.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when you understand how in the political space in that landscape, if you don't hit the delta at the right time, it could be five years before you have the next chance to speak your mind about it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I really I respect and appreciate what you're doing.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think more people need to be speaking out like you in the passionate way that you just did, because it is, it is buck up or get the fuck out.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's it's it's and I'm by buck up, I mean with money.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody's gonna, everybody says, Oh, we don't have money, we don't have this.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you won't have a business in an industry in a year or two.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's I really go ahead.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Every dollar of profit you're making now is on the back of an industry that might disappear.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not putting that profit to save that those dollars, those dollars will go away and you won't have any profit left to share.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So cut your personal payroll for a week and donate it.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Cut uh a marketing expenditure for a week and donate that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to give what you can't give, but you can do something and you should be doing what you can.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: If I hear someone where they're like, I'm not part of any member memberships, I don't donate anything to anyone, I just keep my head down.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have no appreciation for you anymore in this space.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care how big your company is.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the bigger it is, almost the more mad at you I am, because you're building it off of other people's backs and you're not contributing to the cause.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we need.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: There is, there's a there's a lot of merit in that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'll tell you from my example too, like uh contacting these places about you know, they're even in Pennsylvania and them being like, being like, well, yeah, let me know when it passes and we'll start doing business together.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I straight up am like every time like if you're not running next to me in the lane, I don't care.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't care what you want to do come July 2026.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like my phone will ring and it will be people being like, hey, I want to get into PA.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, there's 17 emails over the last six months and those 42 phone calls you ignored.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: That that was me reaching out to you.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was your opportunity back there.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a a high-paid desk worker showing up via private helicopter to a battle-torn, bloodied soldiers and being like, Oh, we did great.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now you guys want to hang out and be like, no, no, not a flick of dirt on their shoes at all, just shiny as fuck.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just not, yeah, it's just not real.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you gotta you gotta play the ball to to to win the game.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing is the difference is it was easy before because it was a low barrier of entry and low sort of things.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is where the maturity comes in, this is where the business comes in, and this is where the strategy comes in.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a matter of who has more money or not, it's a matter of who's got the cojones to continue to do this because it's gonna it's gonna be a tough year for a lot of people.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is and unfortunately, like I'm speaking to somebody that's owned my business for 17 years by myself.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have it to last 17 years, you don't have it to last the rest of the year.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need you need to have that.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the next, you know, there'll be another one a year from now and another thing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can't handle this, like I I hate to say it, it's just but it's it's where it is, and it's it's do or die kind of moments as far as that goes.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where when you um when you look at these types of things and you meet all these different founders and these different association types, you know, do you realize like sometimes like even just a meeting with them, like who who kind of has what it's gonna take to kind of get through this?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is it is a defining personality type.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be money, it just has to be personality.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, I think right now it's it's I mean, grit is always the primary determining factor of success and entrepreneurship, like hands down.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's no point in me trying to like reconvince you that grit is the most important thing, but it's extra important in our space.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I often like early on, like way early on, 2019 early on, I'd be on podcasts and people would be like, What do you recommend for people that want to get in the space?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, number one, don't just decide you want to do something and go do it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Get in the space somehow, be an employee first, work in the space, understand the industry.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: When you understand how it all works, something in that space will call to you.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's either processing distillate or making a brand or being a distributor, something will call out to you and you'll be like, this is this is where I feel like home is for me.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because that passion, that pull is going to be the thing that saves your ass when things get extremely difficult.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because look, when you're like not taking payroll a second month in a row, and you just landed a huge deal in California that operated for six weeks before the governor canceled all of your revenue from that state.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get hit with a second state right behind it called Missouri, and you're thinking, why am I doing this?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: A sane person would stop at that point and be like, This is stupid.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm losing money.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not making it, I'm pulling my hair out, what's left of it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is ridiculous.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: That passion is what will keep you going through those hard times where most people would quit because it's not just grit, it's grit plus passion in our space.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have the grit and the passion.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You also have to understand at this stage, it's a team sport.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: There will come a time where it is no longer a team sport.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited for that time.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited when things are so stable that you can just see another competitor pop up and be like, not my town, and do everything you can to stop them.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is not where we're at today.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're one of those people today, I I wish you would leave the space because we all we're not big enough to survive on our own.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: This be that that's a that fighting each other thing is when we're so big that success is guaranteed.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're just talking about who's gonna be successful, not does the category succeed.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right now we're struggling still trying to save the category.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot be fighting each other.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I love it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love everything you said.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I got nothing to even add to it.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just it's it's it's so exciting and uh to talk to you.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'm not gonna lie, I was in a conversation this morning with a distributor in Texas.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was defeating.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was very defeating to have the conversation because we're constantly seeing all the changes and everything like that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, from a from another side, we're not feeling the we're not feeling the urgency from brands.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that is the most concerning piece because here's what brands have to realize people like me, if this doesn't work out, I don't have a building, I don't have this, I'll I'll mold back into doing strategy with independence and stuff like that.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not here championing and building and but getting the lobbyists and doing this campaign because I believe in the category, my personal reasons as well as my business.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm if I'm the only one up there standing here and I don't have anybody next to me, I look at it and I'm like, what am I fighting for at that point?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because it's like, okay, if you don't want this, then you don't want this.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it it's not a case of the whole, I want to make sure I I and I know you want to do this as well.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of we'll get the degree of people to understand that it's not a majority, um, but it is an acknowledgement moment that we need to shed light on.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: That if you're sitting back and just to simply isolate it that way, if you're not participating in these groups or volunteering your time to push some sort of advocacy at this point, you're probably not in it for the right reason.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to be bleeding for this industry right now.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that blood could be money, it could be time, but it's got to be something.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just the taker in the space right now, not only do I have no interest, I actively wish you would leave.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just we just don't have time for it.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I've been, you know, pretty positive and pretty uplifting and pretty supportive of everyone joining the space.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: But at this point, like we really do need to cut the wheat from the chaff.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're just in it for a quick buck, like you need to see your way out and leave it to those that are passionate about the plant to continue on.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: The good thing will happen is if they don't if they don't heed the advice during this period or burnout, uh, the distributors will eat them alive.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that, and you know that as well, is that that's the next phase is that a lot of these brands that are self-distributing and things like that, um, they don't really realize what it takes to properly manage a distributor.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then that'll be the next wake-up call because they signed up all these distributors and thought it would set it and forget it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're complaining because the distributors aren't moving product.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you still got to manage the distributor and you still got to be in the market, and you still gotta do all these things.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those are those evolutionary things of of uh of startups that uh to have this regulatory noise going on is uh is definitely uh it's definitely been a deterrent for some people and as far as opening their eyes.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I want to just close out that part of it is is this noise won't stop because then in five to ten years, there'll be another product that's coming up with another category that'll be stealing your consumer away.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if you if you gotta realize that this is the entrepreneurship, this is running your own business, this is the buck stops with you, and uh it's it's not a time to be sitting on the couch making comments under newsletters and stuff.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I and I do that to promote my business, yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's all you're doing and you think that's making a difference, that's not it.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So but hey, uh is there anything else as we're closing out here?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anything else for your side of the business?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want to let people know where to find you, uh, where to find you on LinkedIn to be able to connect with you, as well as uh DTC, where to find your products and stuff.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh LinkedIn, Chris Fonce, F-O-N-T-E-S.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you'll see my ugly mug is the avatar.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um it'll be me.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I it probably have some posts where people are yelling at me for something that's that then you know you found the right person.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh DTC or ordering our products online, drinkhighspirits.com, just drinkhighspirits.com.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you are in the space, if you're anything past the farm gate, uh crude extraction, uh distillation, fractionation, emulsion, all the way up to manufacturing through to branding, through to distribution and retail.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anywhere in that chain, I highly encourage you to go to usmpauthority.org and start the registration process and get certified.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Chris, I want to I'll close out with uh with giving you a public compliment that I do with every guest, but I mean it, and is that I appreciate you coming on.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: There was no script and there's no agenda.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there was no prep.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't go out to dinner, we didn't go out to breakfast, we didn't shake hands.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I want people to realize this is this is a the most organic thing on the internet.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's the realest thing on the internet.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is two strangers connecting with a 59 minutes or 50 minutes or so.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's I wish people would take these episodes and yeah, we're talking about B2B stuff and it's nerdy and this and that, but it's more than that.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's knowing that there's people out there that have the same interest as you.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: They have a common thing.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's more things that we there are together that separate us.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And outside of this industry, the chaos and destruction of this beautiful life, it's one of those things that we I want to encourage everybody as I close this out is to look everybody in the eye as you're walking down the street, hold the door for a stranger, ask somebody how they're doing, and actually pause and care and give a shit about what they say.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's a there's a little bit, it's a little bit that can go a long way.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and Chris, I thank you for the for the courage to come on the show.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it for me, it it speaks a lot to somebody's character that they're willing to come on a show without a script or agenda or questions in advance.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you for hosting it.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this format's wonderful.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think uh you're you're dead on the you know, the the human experience is starting to fade away for like a uh watered down version of it that we see online, and you know, the the old sitting around the water hole and just sharing views and ideas, it just happens less and less.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So these sorts of impromptu, it's not impromptu, it was planned, but there was no script to your point, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is as close as we can get to bumping into each other in a bar and just having a casual conversation in today's world, and it's it's needed.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate it.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh I was raised uh with my family.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: We lived on we had a farm in our family, and and uh we I was raised on bonfires and beers and stories.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And whether they were fake or not, that was irrelevant of whether the stories were real or not.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was the it was the camaraderie, and that's what I hope to carry on on this.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate the the feedback for sure.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, yeah, I see it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Chris, I'll send you an email later today.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I want to connect with you on a couple other things offline.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but thank you so much for your time today and and thank you for trusting me with your story.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, thanks for putting it together and thanks for having me on.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have a good rest of your day, buddy.