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Female Firsts: Alice Ball · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you protection of I Heart Radio, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: it is time for another edition of Female First, which
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: means we are once again joined by the wonderful, wondrous Eaves.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome Eaves. Hi. I'm excited to be here, as I
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: am every time. Yes, and this is kind of a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: special experimental thing we're doing today. Uh, because Sminty may
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: or may not be dipping our toes into TikTok. Maybe
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I know, I know the horror, So we are kind
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of unexpectedly recording this like video. I'll say, when we
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: say tiptoeing into TikTok, will be being told by our
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: gen z or researcher that we need is we need
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to get into the we need to get into the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: social media, so they will be controlling this aspect and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: probably hopefully making us look better exactly. Yeah. But I'm
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: also concerned that the youth, as you say, Eves, are like,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: oh no, please, this is the end of TikTok. I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: have seen on TikTok They're like, please, if you're over thirty,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: stop it. Well here we are like this is ours,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, but I like watching talk videos
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and such. I think, you know, we can be sort
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of quarantined to a certain area of TikTok. I think
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: that's okay. Oh yeah, le's true. They do have very
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: specific algorithms. So for those who are can we stop
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to address the fact that he wants to go into
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: another type of quarantine that now you're putting listen to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a virtual box. Oh you're right, I'm sorry. I shouldn't
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: do that to you. Eves are very valued guests. This
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: is a poor star our TikTok careering into the mainstream.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: That sounds like something somebody was saying in Dystopia. It
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: is dystopian. Have you not seen the news? Oh my gosh,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: well yes, and we were just talking about nightmares we've
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: had um so a lot of I would say stress
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: is being felt by a lot of people. But you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: this story that you bought today is equal parts inspiring
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and heartbreaking. And I'm so again, I'm like stunned. I
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: didn't know about this, so I'm really really eager to
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: talk about it. Who did you bring for us today, Eves?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So today we're talking about Alice Ball. She was the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: first black American to graduate from the University of Hawaii.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: She was also the first woman to graduate from the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: University of Hawaii with a master's degree in chemistry. She
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: was also the first Black American female chemistry instructor at
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the university and the first Black American woman to be
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: published twice in the Journal of the American Chemical Society,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and that was in nineteen fourteen and in nineteen seventeen.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So she did all that work. And she was early
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: on in the research for leprosy, which is something that
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: has existed for a long time, which we'll talk about
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: also called Hanson's disease. But she was instrumental in developing
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the first effective treatment against leprosy, which is tied to
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: something that people around the world we're using in a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: medicinal way long before Alice Ball was ever born. But
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: she was instrumental in doing some of the lab work
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: that was like key to bringing it to a point
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: where people were able to use it as an injectable
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and treatment of Hanson's disease. Yeah, and those aren't quite
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of first and she did it in such
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: a short amount of time. Yeah. We often I feel
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: like we often say on here, wow, they were so young.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: They did so much in such a short period of time.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: And it's true. It is true with her. She unfortunately
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: lived a short life, but accomplished a lot during it. Yes, yes,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: so why don't get into it, let's do it. So.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: She was born Alice Augusta Ball on July two in Seattle.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Her grandfather was a photographer in the nineteenth century, and
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: her father's name was James Pressley Ball, and he was
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: a newspaper editor a lawyer, and he was also a photographer.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: So I spent set by some historians in the course
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: of her story that the chemicals they use in their photography,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: because they were working with degara types and things like that,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that that may may have had some sort of influence
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: on the work that she did as a chemist. But
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: her mother was named Laura Louise Ball, and she Alice herself,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: was the third of four children. Her older brothers were
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: William and Robert, and her younger sister was named d
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: and her family was relatively well off. They were around
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: middle class to upper middle class, and they lived in
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Seattle until nineteen o two, but her grandfather was dealing
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: with arthritis, so the family then moved to Hawaii and
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: hopes that the better climate would help out with his health.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: They lived in downtown Honolulu when they went to Hawaii,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: and Alice went to school at a place called Central
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Grammar from nineteen o two to nineteen o four. But
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: around that time her father died and then the family
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: moved back to Seattle and she went to Seattle High
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: School and she graduated in nineteen ten. She did really
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: well in school and particularly in her science classes, so
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it makes sense that she moved on to continue to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: work in science. She then attended the University of Washington,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: where she got two Bachelor of Science degrees. She got
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: one in pharmaceutical chemistry in nineteen twelve and she got
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: another one in pharmacy in nineteen fourteen. So these are
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: things that were not super common happening back then in
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: terms of women and specifically black women and the academic
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: sciences and getting their master's degrees and moving into fields
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: as professors as well in the sciences was something that
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: that was not common at the time. She published an
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: article with her pharmacy teacher in the Journal of the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: American Chemical Society called Benzo relations an ether Solution, and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: she chose to get her master's degree from the College
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: of Hawaii, and it was at that point she graduated
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: that happened in June of nineteen fifteen. Her thesis at
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the time was called the Chemical Constituents of Piper methysticum
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the Chemical constituents of the active principle of avarut also
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: known as cava rout. She studied that plant to see
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: how it could be injected as a treatment for medical condition,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: which ties into her later work. Upon graduating from a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: College of Hawaii, she came the first woman and the
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: first black person to graduate from the school with a
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: master's degree. So from nineteen fifteen to nineteen sixteen, she
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: also taught chemistry at the college and she became the
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: first black woman professor in the chemistry department. And while
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: she was teaching at the school, man named Dr. Harry T.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Holman asked her to research how to make chalmugra oil
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: better at treating people with Hanson's disease, which was, like
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, also known as leprosy. So Holman was
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: an assistant surgeon at a hospital in Hawaii called Kalihi
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and he worked with patients with Hanson's disease. And so
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: there's a long history of leprosy and how it was
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: treated across the world over many centuries, but also in
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the US and Hawaii has its own specific history of leprosy.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people have heard the terminology
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: leper colonies a place that people who had leprosy were
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: directed to, And of course there's also a lot of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: stigma around the actual condition of leprosy, and because of that,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: there's also stigma around the word of leprosy that when
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: people hear leprosy they may associate it with certain things.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: If they're not they don't have a deep or even
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a surface understanding of how leprosy actually affects people. It
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: causes discoloration of the skin, it causes ulcers, muscle weakness
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: or paralysis, and even things like i issues that may
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: lead to blindness and other symptoms that are related to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the skin and too. Nerve damage and the bacteria that
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: caused the disease were identified in eighteen seventy three by
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: a Norwegian physician, but like I said, by that point
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it had the condition had been around for a really
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: long time. There's evidence that its existed for thousands of years,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and in the United States in the twentieth century, one
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: way that doctors commonly tried to handle leprosy patients was
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: by isolating them. It's just like, well, we think they're
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: really contagious and we don't really know what to do
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: with them. But if they're really contagious and it spreads easily,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: we don't want everybody else to have it, So we're
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: going to just contain them to a specific area based
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: on the limited knowledge and also all of the stereotypes
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: that were happening around people who had hands his disease
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: at the time, so they were sent to leprosy hospitals
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and to so called leper colonies, and as what often
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: happens to of course, there are many other demographic and
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: sociological issues tied up into the way that people were
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: treated and isolated. So a lot of people who were
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: in Hawaii. Of course, most of those people who were
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: sent to this communities of people who at leprosy were
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: native Hawaiians, but there were other ethnicities who were there
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: as well, And of course Hawaii is very isolated and
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: that made it the quote unquote perfect place to isolate
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: people who had leprosy. But anyway, one of these kinds
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: of communities existed in Hawaii called Papa, and people with
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: advanced cases of the disease were often forcibly transferred there
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and they lived in exile basically and often for their
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: entire lives. The stigma existed around leprosy because of all
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: the biases that people had, the ignorance about how the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: disease worked, how the condition affected people physically, because it
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: did have physical effects, These things that people saw and
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: viewed people in a different way morally because of it.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Didn't understand how it spread. They thought it was really contagious,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: which is not that contagious, definitely not as contagious as
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: people thought it was back then. They considered them unclean morally,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: inferior or less lesser than from a social status standpoint.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So all of these things were wrapped up into why
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: people were isolated who had Handson's disease, which at the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: time um but people who had this all over the world,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't just happening in Hawaii, and that wasn't
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the case over all the time. Even though it did
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: migrate from Europe and Asia over to the America's, it
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: didn't always exist in America's But isolation wasn't the only
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: way that doctors treated handsons um for a while. Like
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I said earlier, people around the world did use chal
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: mugra oil from the Chalmuga tree. People in India and
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: China were using this medicinally and it was used to
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: treat handsons as well as other skin conditions. And so
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: some of these trees at a point were planted in Hawaii.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: But doctors in the US, we're having trouble treating it
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: effectively with that oil. The oral doses were nauseating, and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: injecting it could be painful and it could cause skin abscesses.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: So they are in there's a problem that needs a
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: solution that people realize, Hey, this talmugra oil has been
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: used for many, many years and other societies, so they
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: already clearly have medicinal knowledge of how it's used for
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: this condition, but it could be improved upon. And so
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that's where Holman comes in. And then that's where Alice
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Ball comes in as well. So basically at that point
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Ball was doing double duty. She was doing all of
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: her teaching work during the day and on the side
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: she was working on making this talmugra water soluble and
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: able to be injected into patients who had leprosy and
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Arthur L. Dean, who was then a chemistry professor, helped
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: her with this work. She ended up being successful at
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: creating that injectable that was made with the components of
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the oil. She used freezing the oil to help her
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: make that injectable and then after that many people were
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: released from isolation in the wake of that discovery. But unfortunately,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Alice Ball did die very young in nineteen sixteen. She
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: it was reported that she inhaled chlorine gas in one
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: of the classes that she was teaching, but her death
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: certificate also set touberculosis, so there is some debate over
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: how Alice Ball actually died. She got sick um and
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: couldn't publish her finding, so she didn't publish her findings
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: before she passed away. She had went back to Seattle
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: from Hawaii in October of nineteen sixteen and died in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: December thirty one, so that year, and she was only
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: twenty four years old. And Dean, Arthur Dean, he did
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: continue her work after she died, but he didn't credit
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: her for her work in this publication. And here in
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: lies one of those stories that feels like it's apocryphal
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: or like some sort of odd, terrible archetype of things
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: happening in history, where it's like the man takes credit
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: for everything that the woman did, but that is what
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: happened in this case. The method became known as the
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Dean method, which is like throwing salt on the wound,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of treatment was of The treatment was
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: produced and used around the world. That had a bunch
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of potential and people were really hopeful that it would
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: make a big difference. But and and then there were
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: no Handson's patients who had Hanson's disease who were sent
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to Cloud Papa between nineteen nine and the injection was
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: used to treat people for years, but by the end
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of the nineteen twenties, people realized that the treatment wouldn't
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: be a complete cure or help to completely set Cloud
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Papa down. Shut it down down, Tom we were Oil
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: was replaced by treatments that were more effective medications by
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the time of the nineteen forties and beyond. So in
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the work that Arthur Dean published in nineteen twenty two,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: he mentioned Ball's work in researching the treatment, so he
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: rolled it back and he was like, no, you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Alice Ball was the one who did this work. You know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: she was a pioneer in this research that was done
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: in order to create this treatment that helped people. And
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: here's a quote from that publication. He said, quote about
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the time that Rogers and Ghosh were starting their investigations
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: in India. In Hawaii, I interested miss Alice Ball, MS
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and instructress in chemistry at the College of Hawaii in
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the chemical problem of obtaining for me the active agents
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in the oil of child mugra. After a great amount
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of experimental work, Miss Ball solved the problem for me
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: by making the ethyl esters of the fatty acids found
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: in tell mugra oil, employing the technique here with described.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: And he goes on and he proceeds to describe what
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: he calls Ball's method. So reattribution is happening there. So
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: there were people who came across her work, Catherine to Car,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I think it is in Stanley Alei who came across
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: her work and records in the nineteen seventies. And it
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was a long time. It was a long time when
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: her work just the fact that she had done it,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and that, you know, Dean did reattribute the work to her,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: But that didn't really people still didn't really know about it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You know, it was still Dean's method. He was the
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: one who had helped get this treatment out to everybody,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and Ball's contributions weren't specifically and deeply known. So they
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: brought that back to light and over time, over the
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: most the past few decades, her work has been more recognized.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: In two thousand seven, the University of Hawaii gave her
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the Regent's Medal of Distinction. And back in two thousand
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Hawaii did proclaim February twenty nine to be Alice Ball Day,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: but of course that is the day that only occurs
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: on leap years, so because it only happens every four years,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the governor Hawaii went ahead and said, okay, February two
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: just this year, he said that that was Alice Augusta
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Ball Day. And in terms of leprosy overall, many more
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: advancements have been made since Alice Ball did her work.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: People with Hanson's disease do have a cure that is
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: available to them now and it's largely tweeted with antibiotics.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: So that's the story of Alice Ball is she did
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a lot in her twenty four years, and she accrued
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of first as well. And I'm just I'm
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: really happy that her work is being wrecked eatonized now
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: because it is one of those cases of somebody else
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: not only taking credit for her work, but doing it
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: in a very in a very deep way where it's like, no,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: this this is in my name, The actual method is
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: in my name, and that it was able to be
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: reattributed to her is a good thing. Yeah, I'm glad that.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I'm glad about that too, But it is kind of
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like you did it when it was too late, like
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: everybody knows it as this now, and um, it was
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: sort of when all these other developments were happening. So
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I am very glad it happened. Also, I've never heard
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the word instructuress before. That was a new one for me.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I wish It's so tragic that she died
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: so young, and she'd already done so much, so who
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: knows how much more she could have accomplished, and she
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: had such an impact. And yeah, it was a story
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I had never heard of. I really didn't know much
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: about leprosy, to be honest, So I'm so again, I'm
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: so happy that you bought this to our attention. I'm
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: happy she's getting the recognition she could serve, the very
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: sad she didn't get it in her life earlier. There's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a lot like when you look at the context of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: when this occurred, there's so many things to unpack, um
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: because even today we know that when it comes to women,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and especially Marsin's women, especially black women, and stem or
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: steam is rare still like to the fact that people
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: are still questioning, you know, women being doctors, a black
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: woman being a doctor, or you know, anything in the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: science field, engineering field. So it's lovely to see that
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: she broke down these walls so early on. It's awful
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to think that she didn't get that credit until what
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: late nineties slash early two thousand's and looking and finally
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Hawaii like, yeah, she definitely did these things. But also
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: like we understand and it was in the late eight
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: hundred's early nineteen hundreds, had been in the process of
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: being colonized the entire time, and there was there was
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: battles happening for that land and that resources, even to
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: the point that today, hey, people don't recognize or I
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: don't even know the history of Hawaii, Like it took
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: me to the last five years I understand, Oh oh yeah,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: they really were really were like colonized and taking advantage
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of and still are to this day, kind of saying
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: with Puerto Rico. Whole different episode, but these conversations of
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: like how this laid out and then having this deep
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: history trying to unearthed and remember some of the amazing
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: things that did occur at the same time, as well
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: as the fact again yes, that she was a young
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: black woman coming into a field being an instructor, which
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: again amazes me and I was like, wow, I wonder
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: again like the battles that she had to go through. Again,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you had said that she came from a pretty well
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: to do. Does that's the word I want that re?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like, how do I say this? Um? But still,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you know there were challenges, you know, there are so
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: many uphill battles for her and her family. UM. And
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the fact that she was an instructor and was able
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: to instruct other people in this field is phenomenal. And
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm blowing it out of proportion in that I
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: really wish it didn't have to be a big deal.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But of course, like I said, even today, is still
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: kind of a big deal. Like seeking people who are
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: able to uh continue in this field and to thrive
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: in this field. It's difficult because of all the obstacles
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: that are placed in front of a marginalized people in general.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: So her stories beyond amazing. And even if she hadn't
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: done this method, which she did, which is an amazing
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: feat and she should be credited for that work, the
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: things that she had already done is an accomplishment in itself.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Again and for me as a person who has no
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: understanding of science hardly at all. And then like the
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: things I know of leprosy comes from like biblical teachings,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: which pretty much submit unclean. That's what we know. That
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of people's experience, Santhem. I'm smart, it's fine, um,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: But like all of these things come into play that
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you're like, wow, this this information, this story, there's so
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: many folds to this that in her young life there again,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: as you said, there's so many first that she should
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: have been accredited with that we should be talking about.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: And how amazing this individual and I hope her support system.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: So it seems we're able to get her to this place,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: for her to work and fight for this place again
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: kind of diminished by the fact that people try to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: take credit for her work. Of course, um, but at
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: least we are finally hearing about it. Like, there's so
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: many things to this, and I'm like fascinating, really want
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: to dig deep into, like who was this woman? And
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: how did she get there? Down? Now my phone down,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: there's just it's just my my scattered mind to thinking
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: about all the processes of like how, wow, where does
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: she come from? How to this go? Why haven't we
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: talked about this more? Why aren't we talking about this more? Again?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I would have had no idea had you not brought
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: this to us, Like this woman would not have been
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: familiar to me at all. And it's one of those
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: things where you wonder if she would she have even
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: ended up doing this work if she didn't end up
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: in Hawaii serendipitously. It's like, of course, it was for
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: an unfortunate reason that she did end up going to
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Hawaii for the illness um and her family, but because
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: she ended up there, she ended up there in proximity
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: to a challenge that was happening on the island at
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the time, which is that these people were in isolation
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and she was there to help come up with treatment
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: for them. So it's one of those things where it's like,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: clearly she ended up there for a reason. She was
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: able to help in the work that she was doing
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: there in the short amount of time that she did
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: have on this earth. Yeah. Um. And sometimes with these
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I get a little, you know, almost scared of like
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: what if what if this guy had never said she
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: didn't do this and people don't do the research and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: then they don't know. But I'm always hopeful when you
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: come on you because you're like, no, people are doing
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: this research. The people won't be forgotten. Um, So thank you,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for for bringing these people to
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: us and these amazing stories to us. Yeah, I'm happy
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to thank you, like thank goodness for all these people
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: who are doing these things right. Yes, yes, honestly, so much.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: There are so many moments when you talk about this
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: one person discovered this one name, and then they went
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole and discovered this whole new aspect
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of this that I'm like, oh my god. It literally
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: was like a detail that they got and they just like,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: this looks important. Yeah. Yeah, you have to be committed
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: to the idea of something to believe in something that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: maybe has never been come behind in certain ways before
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the other people wouldn't may never think to work on.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really admirable in some of these
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: people's stories too. So to those people who continue to
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: dig deep, thank you, and that includes you, Eves. Thank you.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And if people call you weird, it's okay. It's okay
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: because people probably will call you weird for doing some
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: of these things, but just know that greatness is in
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the future for you. We would never because we really
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: really appreciate all of you. Yes, well, thanks as always
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Eaves for coming on. Um. Where can the good listeners
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: find you? You can find me on many many other
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: episodes of stuff Mom Never told You doing, other female
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: firsts and history about other amazing women who had innovations,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: breakthroughs and first You can also find me on a
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: line on Instagram at not Apologizing. You can also find
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Eaves Jeff Cote and if all
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: else fails, just go to Eves Jeff Cote dot com.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: That's why I v s J E F F C
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: O A T dot com. Yes, yes, yes, sobat that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I were just talking about the stress of spelling things
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: on podcasts. I don't know why. It's I'm stressful. I'm like, nope,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it because I'm gonna buss it up.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: It's like a panic moment. It's interesting. Well, go and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: check Eves out listeners. If you haven't already online uh.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: If you want to contact us, you can our emails
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: stepping your mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, thank you. Thanks to
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: you for listening, and also Eves, thanks for being part
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: of this TikTok experiment. You may or may not see
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: it listeners, I don't know. And thanks to Joey who
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: is ahead of the whenever they start this. Thank you, yes,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: thank You're sorry. Step I've Never Told You This production
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of y Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: you can check out the high Radio app Apple podcast,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: where you listen to your favorite shows