Latest / Wake Up with Marci / More Than a Survivor: Healing After Sexual Assault | Amy McKiernan

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More Than a Survivor: Healing After Sexual Assault | Amy McKiernan · Wake Up with Marci

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When I had my son, that's when I started realizing
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: that I needed to care for someone outside of myself.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: And how do I do that? Like, how do I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: give this child the best life that he deserves and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: also show him a proper model for a relationship? You know,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: how to treat women. He's a little boy. Like, I
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm getting cheated on all the time. How
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: do I show him better? Well, I have to be
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: better for myself. I have to care about myself. I'm
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: worthy of being a great mother to this little boy.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: This is Wake Up With Marci, a space for honest
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: conversations about healing, recovery, and women's wellness. I'm Marci Hopkins.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Take a breath. You're safe here. Let's begin. Sexual assault
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't just leave physical scars. It can steal your identity,
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  Speaker 2: your confidence, and your sense of safety in the world.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: But what if healing isn't just about surviving the trauma,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: but reclaiming your power? Today's guest, Amy McKiernan, knows that
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: journey intimately. After surviving sexual assault beginning at just 15
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: years old, she turned her pain into purpose and wrote
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the book, More Than a Survivor, to help others that
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: need to find their way back to themselves. Welcome all
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to Wake Up With Marci, where we have the real
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: conversations that lead to radical healing. This is a space
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  Speaker 2: where we talk about the hard things, the pain, the trauma,
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  Speaker 2: the moments that break us so that we can discover
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: the strength that rebuilds us. Because the truth is, you
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: are not broken. And sometimes the most powerful thing we
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: can do to reclaim our voice and rewrite our story
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  Speaker 2: is to have these conversations. But before we begin our conversation,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I want to take a moment to acknowledge that today's
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: episode discusses sexual assault and trauma. And for some, this
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: can be very triggering. And if you are a survivor
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: of this conversation and this brings something up for you,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: painful emotions, whatever it may be, please know that you
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  Speaker 2: are not alone and support is available. If you need
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: someone to talk to, you can contact the National Sexual
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Assault Hotline at 1-800-956-HOPE. Our intention with this conversation is
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: to bring awareness, healing, and hope. Amy, thank you so
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: much for being part of today's show and sharing your
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: your story and showing your courage with us today.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm grateful to
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: be here.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: So Amy, let's talk about your story because it begins
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: with a young person that experienced something that they never
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: should have. You should have never experienced. You were assaulted
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: at 15 years old. Can you take us back to
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: that time in your life and share your what that
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: experience did to your sense of safety and identity and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: how you ended up coping in life. Yeah.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: So, you know, for starters, I'll share that I had
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a really loving and wonderful upbringing, a strong family unit,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: which I know that not everyone is fortunate enough to have.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: But I was fortunate in that sense. I did have
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: a very strong, loving family unit. I was a creative kid,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: loved to dress up and perform. And I was getting
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: into theater and, you know, being on stage felt really good.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, I was that kind of kid.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And when I was 15, you know, I was a
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: freshman in high school. And that's when I experienced my
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: first rape. And that was, it was a friend of mine.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: We were hanging out. There was alcohol involved. And that's,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that's actually how I lost my virginity was, um, to rape.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, and I won't go into too many,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you know, details cause I understand that it is a
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: very triggering, um, conversation to be having. Um, but it
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: was like I lost my light. You know, I went
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: from being this vibrant, creative, um, girl who liked to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: be on stage and liked the spotlight a little bit
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and was really like finding myself to completely shut down.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I returned to school that following Monday, a
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: shell of who I was before. And I initially, I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: didn't tell anyone. My sister knew, but I swore her
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: to secrecy. I wanted time with this very confusing thing
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: that I was going through. And it caused her so
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: much pain to not say anything. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't even ready to accept what had happened. And
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: so I kept it a secret from my parents. I
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: went to school trying to just, okay, we're just going
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to pretend this thing didn't happen, this shameful, painful secret.
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  Speaker 1: You know, going to school that day, I discovered that he,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: you know, my friend was telling, was bragging about it, was,
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  Speaker 1: you know, bragging about his latest, you know, latest notch
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  Speaker 1: on his belt, right? And it was humiliating. It was confusing.
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  Speaker 1: I still didn't label it. I didn't put a label
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: on it. I still just wanted to bury it inside,
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  Speaker 1: but it got around. There were other people there that night.
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  Speaker 1: It got around and what ended up happening was a
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  Speaker 1: girl that I wasn't exactly friends with. I actually didn't
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: get along with very well. She was kind of hung
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: with the same group of kids and she knew my
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: older brother and she ended up calling him and telling
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: him what happened. And he called my dad. And then
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: by the time I got home that day, everybody knew.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: And then the journey afterward was so long, right? We
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: got detectives involved, the hospital visit. If anyone has ever
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: experienced those things, a rape kit, things like that, they
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: know just how embarrassing and lonely it feels. Um, even
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: though it's like, you know, that you're not alone, you know,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that you're not the only person in the world who's
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: experienced these things, but you just, you just feel alone.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: You feel like you are, you know? And, and so it,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: it became this whole just long experience. It was my
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: whole identity. The entire school knew.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I lost. Why do you think he didn't think he
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: did anything wrong? Why wouldn't he? be bragging about this?
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a great question. I, I'm not, I'm
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: not a hundred percent sure what made him think that
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: what happened was okay.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So you were saying no, pushing him away.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I was completely in and out of consciousness.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So I had drank.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: You were in a blackout, you know, in and out
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: of a blackout and he was taking advantage of that situation. Yes.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I don't even know. And another piece that's hard to
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: grapple with to this day is I don't even know
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: everything that happened. I remember bits and pieces. I remember
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: being moved around. I remember waking up and my body
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: being completely limp. There was no control over myself. And
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: waking up And being held by the throat and being
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: moved around in pain and just not being able to
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: fight back or say anything. And it wasn't until actually
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: my friend and her boyfriend walked in on the situation.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: That's when it stopped. I actually didn't see him the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: rest of the night or the next morning. I became
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: very sick. And, you know, my friend's boyfriend ended up
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: taking care of me that night. But nobody called the cops. Nobody...
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: said anything. We're all 15 to 18 year old kids. And, and,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you know, it was just this kind of thing that
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: like happened and everybody just wanted to like move on
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: from it.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And, and yeah, so, so why he was bragging, I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: have no, I couldn't tell you so clearly wasn't a
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: consensual situation. Right.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And I, you went back to school and I mean,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you're already feeling so much shame and confusion, I would guess.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I've been where you are. I mean,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: let's be real. How many of us have been sexually assaulted, right?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Like what you're describing, you just lose a part of
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: yourself and you're so confused and you just want it
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to go away, right? You think somehow you're going to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: be able to just push it down. which is absolutely
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: not true. It stays with you. So I'm so grateful
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that this was brought to light and you felt violated
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure... having the sexual kit done is almost
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a feeling of violation too. Would you say that? Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are my secrets, right? And it's a
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: very invading personal space situation. I mean, they're testing every
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: part of your body. they're photographing, they're drawing on. I mean,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: this was over 20 years ago. So they're also drawing
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: on a diagram of all the bruises and all the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: marks were now all colored in on this little cartoon
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: outline of a person to show. And I mean, I
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: had handprint bruises. Holding them down.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Like they were on my thighs. They were on my chest.
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  Speaker 1: And so, you know, it was... clearly there was a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: lot of force. So having, going through that process alone
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: was just, and I was 15 and it was also,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: they couldn't update my parents unless I gave them permission,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: which I did end up doing. But my poor parents,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, they were just beside themselves, you know, like,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: what do you mean you can't tell me what's going
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: on with my daughter? And then I felt guilty, you know,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and that wasn't their intention, but I felt guilty. Yeah.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I had been drinking. I lied to my mom. She
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: didn't know where I was. I felt like this was
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: so clearly my fault.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that I was deserving of this. Like, well,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: this is what you get because you did all these things.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: And so clearly, what do you expect? And I know
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that survivors battle with that. We blame ourselves.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do.
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  Speaker 1: We really just put it on us. Well, I shouldn't
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: have been wearing that. I shouldn't have been drinking. I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have said yes and then changed my mind. And
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's not it.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: But I also feel a lot of times society can
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: feed into that. Oh, 100%. And it was interesting. I
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: recently was interviewed and I was sexually abused by my father,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: my stepfather. And when this gentleman was asking me questions,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: one of the things he said is, well, you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: when you've been drinking and all, you can put yourself
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: in a situation and almost like you're asking for it.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Things are going to happen. I got to tell you,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I wanted to reach across that table and strangle him
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: because how dare you, right? Right. Right. How dare you?
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Because you are minimizing the fact that somebody takes advantage
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of you because you've had too much to drink. Yeah, exactly.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, you are not a target because of that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: That is the other person that is, they're doing their wrong,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: not you. Right, right.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad you brought that up because I remember
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: distinctly the detective that was they met us at the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: hospital and I remember he was so firm and it
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: felt like he was so mad at me because I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: was trying to explain what I remembered. Right. And the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: fact that I didn't remember everything, it was almost like, well,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: either you remember or you don't like what, like this is,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you're clearly, you know, not being honest or, you know,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It just was like, he was so
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: upset with me and I'm, just trying to explain, like,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't remember everything. I was in and out of practice.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You are a child. You're a child. I was 15.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Right. And it's just, and so, yeah, you're right. I mean, society,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the way these things were handled, are handled sometimes are
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: just so not on the side of those who are
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: enduring them. And it's not, it doesn't feel safe, you know?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: That's why so many people don't say anything. Right. Right.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: What ultimately ended up happening?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So ultimately what ended up happening is we had, you know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: detectives came to the school. They interviewed everybody who is there.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: He basically, him admitting to any kind of sexual activity
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: with me was actually statutory rape anyway because of his age.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So he kind of admitted to that part. And then
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: he was arrested. And then he disappeared, never to be
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: heard from again.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So he, rumor had it, he moved somewhere with family
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: out of country or something. I don't, I'm not sure,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: but they basically couldn't find him anymore. And so that
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: was the last.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Glad he's gone. But then, I mean, did he
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: learn from it? Is it something he's doing to others?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So let's get back to you because that's the most
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: important thing. What from there? What did life begin to
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: look like for you? Did you start numbing? Did you
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: start becoming promiscuous? Or did you turn away from being
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: with guys? Like what happened for you?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, numbing, 100%. I really started experimenting heavily with more
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs. I would try anything. anything and everything
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I would try. I did become promiscuous. I was not safe.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I felt like this is who I am for people.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And then, you know, more abuse came. Before I was 17,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I was drinking again. And I, another friend, another party,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and it just kept solidifying for me, you know, and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: there were other things that had happened too. abusive things.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: And it just solidified my lot in life, you know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and that's who I became. I was this like victim
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: of life and I just accepted it. It was almost like,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: you know, my comfort zone in a sense. And so
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I just, I dove deeper into drugs and alcohol and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: accepting not great relationships, you know, even just dating life was,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you know, if they were kind of abusive, well, but
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: they love me. If they were emotionally abusive too, it
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: just became like, well, this is all I'm going to get.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Look at me. I'm not worthy of much. So I
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: will accept these things. And so my teen years, they
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: were hard. They were hard times. Lying to my parents,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: shutting them out. I just I got into therapy. I
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: was getting help. But anybody who knows who has been
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: in therapy or has gone on a healing journey, you
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: know that there is this big piece that you have
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to be ready and accepting of it. And if you're
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: not accepting of it, you're not going to get very far.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And you do have to choose for yourself to heal
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and accept the help. And so I wasn't there yet.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: And it took a lot of time to get there.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And I did.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, once I got into my early 20s, I started,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of working on getting help and, you know.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: You had a real changing, you know, life-changing thing that
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: happened for you, right? So you started your healing journey
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: in your early 20s and you became a mother. And
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: that was a major turning point for you. So why
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: don't you tell us about that?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I did. I became a mother at 20.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I was in a relationship with someone who was a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: little bit older than me. And it was better in
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: some ways, but there was also a lot of infidelity
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: that I accepted in that relationship. And I had done
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: some healing. I stopped doing drugs. I was still drinking,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: but I stopped doing drugs. I was starting to care
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: about myself a little bit more at that point. I
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: was still going to therapy on and off, things like that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But it was when I had my son, that's when
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I started realizing that I needed to care for someone
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: outside of myself. And how do I do that? How
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: do I give this child the best life that he
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: deserves and also show him a proper model for a relationship.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: How to treat women. He's a little boy. I was like,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I'm getting cheated on all the time. I don't know
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: why I'm doing this to his wife one day or
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: his girlfriend one day. How do I show him better? Well,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I have to be better for myself. I have to
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: care about myself. I'm worthy of being a great mother
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: to this little boy. And that's when I really, for
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: like the first time in a long time I took
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: this real stand for myself. And I ended that relationship.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And I became a single mom. And that was so
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: powerful for me because I took a stand for my
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: worth and my value and my son. And that's what
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: really kind of kicked off this, you're worthy of this.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: You can gain control of your life again. You get
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: to run this narrative.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: But what shifted for you? Like, what were you doing
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: that was different?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I was still going to school. You know, I was
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: bettering myself going to college. And, you know, still working
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: with therapy and things like that. And there was a
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: lot of, like, self-reflection. of like, what do you want
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: your life to look like? It was like a decision
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: you have to make. I really do believe you have
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: to make the decision, right? It starts with choosing yourself.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: And it was this reflective period of what do you
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: want your life to look like? You have this child,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you're trying to finish college, you're in this relationship that's
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: not great. And so I needed to start making changes
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and making those changes by Focusing on my own wellbeing,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you know, I moved back in with my parents and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that was kind of, you know, I didn't love that idea,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: but it was where I needed to be. I accepted
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the help, right? Accepting the help that they had to
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: offer in that moment in life. And I moved back
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: in with them. I was able to focus on school.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I was able to focus on really being a single
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: mom and what does that mean? And how do I
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: get on my feet?
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: You must have been so happy though that you were back.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure with open arms and then we're willing
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to do whatever to help you have a better life
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: and give a good life to their grandchild, your child. Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. They were all for it. And I found myself,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: you know, and I write about this in my book,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: it's just simple choices. One sustainable choice at a time.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: That's where I was at. one choice at a time.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I ended this relationship and now I'm also choosing not
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to go back to it. Even though maybe, you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: even though that could have happened, I, I, I just
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: kept choosing not to go back to it. And then
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I just kept choosing to focus on school and being
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a mom every day. Like I, that's my choice today. And,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and eventually those choices became bigger and, and more powerful
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: for me, but it was more, it was like that
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: switch in my brain of like, I'm just going to
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: make choices for myself right now. And that's where I
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: was at. And it seems simple, but it was actually
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: like a really big turning point in my life.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: It is because life is about choices, good or bad.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And that truly is. So before we continue this very
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: important conversation, we'll be right back. Are you in the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: first 30 days of sobriety or wondering if now is
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: your time to start Hi, I'm Marci Hopkins and I
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: wrote Wake Up, You're Not Broken just for you. It's
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a real raw guide to those first 30 days. What
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: no one tells you, what you will feel and how
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to keep going. This isn't about perfection. It's about progress.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Order your copy now on Amazon. Remember, you're not alone.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You're not broken. You're waking up. Welcome back. So grateful
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: to have you back here with Amy McKiernan and having
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: this incredible conversation about turning our lives around after trauma.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And so you are now with your parents and you
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: have this wonderful child and you want to make a
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: better life. And one of the things that you kept
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: bringing up before break were choices. And the choices that
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: we make. So how can we get to a place
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: where we first know that we are worthy, that we're
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: not broken, and the choices that we make matter? Yeah.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great question. It's really hard. I
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: just want to reiterate that it is not an easy thing, right?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: It's like I talk about Choices and paving a new
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: path in life is like paving a new road. You
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: have to work at it. You have to accept that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be easy. It's not going to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: be quick. And you're going to backslide. Healing is not linear.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: You're going to backslide. You're going to stall. You're going
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to be stuck. You're going to feel lost at times.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: And that's part of the journey. You have to start
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: by choosing yourself and choosing the healing, right? And that
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that like you choose to heal and you're healed.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It means deciding like, I'm going to.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Work on this.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to work on this little by little. And
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: it needs to feel sustainable and it needs to be
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: literally one step at a time. And looking at that,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: like you said, choices can be good ones, bad ones.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: They're all impactful. So maybe it's choosing simply, I'm setting
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: a boundary today. I'm choosing not to do something, not
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: to put something in my body today. I'm choosing to
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: make that phone call that I've been putting off to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: that therapist. I'm going to journal today. I'm going to journal.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to get this out of my body,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: you know, writing it down, saying it out loud can
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: just be so freeing. And sometimes you just have to
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: choose to do that one thing is say it out
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: loud to someone or write it down.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Well, when we have this trauma, right, our nervous system
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: is in that fight or flight all the time. And
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: we're like looking for the next thing that's coming at us, really, right?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: We're not feeling safe. And that's what we're having to change, right,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: is to move past that feeling and calm our nervous
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: system and find the ways to do it, to realize
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: that we don't have these traumatic things are going to
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: be coming at us all the time. Right. We had
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: this traumatic thing happen to us or multiple traumatic things.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: But now we, we are in a place where we
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: can face that and then find that safety and, and
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: know we're safe. Right. So to calm our nervous system
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and find the modalities that can help us do that. And, and,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: the things like you're talking about, like are so important,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: like journaling. I know that's one hard thing and I'm
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: not the greatest at journaling, but I understand like we
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: keep this energetically within our bodies or in our heads.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: We're thinking about it all the time. We're staying stuck
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: in that story. And so if we start writing it down,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: it's so freeing and so healing. And the more and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: more we do it, the more and more we heal.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: would you say that was a big part that helped
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you to heal? Oh, absolutely. Even if you're screaming in
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the journal, right? Yeah.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I did more journaling when I was younger
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: than I did when I was older. But yeah, and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I could even, I have all my journals and I
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: look back at them and I can see my writing
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: getting big and messy. And I'm like writing really fast
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: because I can't get it out in time, like enough time.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just writing it down and then you know, I,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: like I said, I journaled more younger years than older,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: but then writing this book was like a whole other
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: healing journey was writing this book for sure.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you, I healed so much through
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: my book, Chaos to Clarity. I don't know about you.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear what happened for you. But like
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: when I was writing the stories about the trauma and
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the abuse and all, like when I had to go
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: back and read it, like Tears, tears, right? It was
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: so hard to keep going through it. But once I
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: got to the other side of it, it was like,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I don't have to stay stuck in that anymore. It
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: was like, I was able to say, okay, that happened
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: to me, but it doesn't define me anymore. How was
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: it for you? Exactly.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, what I noticed is I started writing And
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: then I would be like, I'm done. I wrote it
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: all down. And then I would reread it and be like, wow,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I avoided so many things. Like I didn't even touch that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, it was like this digging deeper and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: pulling it all out of me and revisiting these things
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: that I had really pushed down and also realizing how
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: these things were still affecting me in certain ways in life.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: It was this whole next level of healing for me.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: And exactly what you said, it's like the purpose, my
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: whole vision with this is to help others get to
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the point of your experiences happened to you. Yes, they did,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: but they do not define you. And you can identify
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: with the strength and healing part. You don't have to
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: identify with the broken victimhood, like barely breathing survivor part.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: It's all about having a healthy relationships with those experiences
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and rebuilding, not just like fixing with a piece of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: duct tape and moving on. I'm talking about repairing, rebuilding
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: in such a strong way that you're more equipped to
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: withhold the other storms that come, right? Because when you
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: heal from trauma or hard things in life, that doesn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: mean there aren't more hard things in life.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Life is hard at times.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Life is so hard. But when you put that work in,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: you're stronger for those other stories.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: You change how you get through them.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's been a remarkable journey for me because
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I've had some doozies of storms in my adult life.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: But this, my experience, I feel like I am so
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: much stronger and better equipped to deal with the storms
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: that have come And I'm getting through them in such
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: an amazing and powerful way.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: You know, and that is just, it's a beautiful thing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: It is. So like for me, that duct tape used
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: to be wine. So I drank a lot of wine.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: But now like really just being self-aware and having the
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: self-acceptance and understanding that each thing that we go through
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: is I'm now today, I'm like, what is the lesson here?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: How can I get through this in a more positive
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: way and learning all these tools? So recently I went
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: through something, I was feeling really down. And that would
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: have been a time that I would have dove into
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: that bottle of wine, feeling sorry for myself because I
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: was such a victim. But I was like, I was
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: able to say, I'm just having a bad day. You know,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: this thing is affecting me. But what are the things
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I can do to get through it? Like feel the feelings, right?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: You're allowed to have the feelings. We're human. But it's
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: just being able to navigate them in a different way.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: So for me, it's prayer. It's meditation. It's breath work.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: And being able to look at it like life's going
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: to happen. This is happening. And I'm allowed to feel sad.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to destroy me. Right.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: One of the mantras that my dad would always tell
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: me when I was younger was, you are not a victim.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: You are not a survivor.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: You are an overcomer.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: And it was. And to be clear, I was a
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: victim of sexual assault. I did survive it. He wasn't
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: saying those things weren't true, but he was saying that
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: that's not who you have to identify as. You can
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: be the overcomer of those things. And identifying as that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: has defined my whole being. It's the way I approach life. Yeah.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: we can overcome hard things and I am here for it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: And I've done it and I will continue to do it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: And that's how I approach my whole life, my marriage,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: my parenting, my work. It's just, we can overcome hard things.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: It might not be easy. It might not be pretty.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It might be incredibly painful, but we can overcome it
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: in the end.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: So what would you say to a survivor out there
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: right now? Survivor. You know, how can they become an overcomer, right?
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: To know that what happened to them doesn't have to
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: define them. And I mean, just that shame, right? Just
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: to believe that we're so broken and we're like deserving
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: of this. And we just keep in that loop of
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: allowing negative behavior from others, right? What would you say
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to someone right now that feels that way?
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I would say to anyone who feels that way that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you aren't alone. I just need to make that clear.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: You deserve support and healing and it's not too late.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So if you're someone who has experienced something years ago
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and you've just never addressed it, I can guarantee you
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that it is still impacting you today. And it is
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: never too late. to decide that you're going to truly
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: heal and then take those steps. And I know it
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: feels overwhelming. I know it feels too big to take on.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: But if you just, like I mentioned earlier, you focus
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: on one small choice at a time, right? Like you're
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: listening right now. That's a choice. What will you choose next?
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Will you make that phone call? Will you reach out
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to that support group? Will you write some things down
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: for yourself? Will you call that friend? Like You just
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: focus on one small sustainable choice at a time toward
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: your healing and well-being. I promise you that path will
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: get easier to go down.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Was there a community that helped you?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I said before, I had a very
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: supportive family and I was very fortunate with that. And so,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you know, it was about finding the right therapists. I'm
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a huge believer in therapy. And we went through some, right?
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Like I had to find the right fit. And once
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: I did, it became so beneficial. So therapist and my family,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you know, community of just allowing. And once I allowed
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: them in too.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Allowing. You have to allow them in. You have to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: solidify that support system. That's one of the keys I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: talk about. Support system is so important. Support community and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: for everyone, even if it looks different. Like I can't
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: stress that enough. I had a supportive family. I understand
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: that many don't, but your support community is still out there.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: It just might look different than mine.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And that's okay. And that's okay.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Love that. So your book, More Than a Survivor, and
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: you've talked about these keys to healing. You have eight
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: keys within your book. Can you give us three keys
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: that we could take away?
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Sure thing. Um, so, you know, we talked a lot
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: about support system. And so one of the keys is
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: to solidify your support system. That is such a huge one,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I think, because you need someone to lean on, right?
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: It's so hard to do this alone and support is
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: for everyone. Like I said, no matter what it looks like.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Another key that we've already touched on today was, um,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: pave your new path with choice. And I talked just
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: about that. And I paint a lot of pictures. I'm
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: a very visual person. So I talk about paving a
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: new road and stalling and hitting boulders and rocks and
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: being just completely stuck, but making those small choices. That
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: is so key because no matter where you are in
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: your journey, you can always revisit that. If you haven't
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: started yet, if you're lost, if you're stuck, you can
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: always revisit that. And then another one that I'll mention
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: is Put things where they belong. And that's another one
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: that really focuses on having a healthy relationship with your experiences.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And I, you know, talk about it's almost like wearing
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: a sweater, like a sweater every day. Your sweater that
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: is your experiences and your trauma and your pain, it's
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: all intertwined. It's woven into the fabric and you're putting
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: it on every day. It becomes this comfort item. It's
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: like who you are.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: And it's so heavy.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: And it's like making that choice to remove it and
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: put it away, not get rid of it, not crumple
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: it in a ball and throw it in the back
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of your closet and never look at it again. Putting
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: it away in a safe and beautiful place where if
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: you need to revisit it, you can, where if you
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: need to be with it and feel what you need
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to feel, you can. But then you put it away again.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: You're not wearing it every day. It doesn't define who
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you are. And so that one's also really powerful where
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: it's all about healthy relationships with your experiences.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, looking at it in a different way and
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: just like you turning your pain into purpose just like me.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: And it's so possible and it's so empowering and freeing.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And also like for me now today, I look at
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: it like, I always like when I speak at any event,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, it's like I never tell my story
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: for anyone to feel sorry for me because I know
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: that I had to go through what I went through
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: to do the work that I do today.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: And this was God's plan for me. And so did
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: you have a problem with any substance? Are you still drinking?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Because that Listen, we go through things in our lives.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Like for me, I had to quit. And maybe for some,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: they go through a divorce or some, you know, death
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: or some traumatic experience and their drinking elevates. And maybe
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: it just becomes a bad habit. What was it for you?
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I drink a lot and I did a
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: lot of drugs. And I was able to quit drugs completely.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: without needing like a program or anything. And I have
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: a very healthy relationship, in my opinion, with alcohol. I
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: drink a few times a year at like special occasions.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I'm just not a drinker. Like I don't, yeah, I
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: don't drink to numb my pain. I don't drink to
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: relieve stress. I don't look to get drunk on the
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: weekends when we don't have our, if our kids, like
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: it's just not something that I Need or want. Right.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also when you heal, you don't necessarily, you
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: don't need. those things to push it down anymore. Right.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: To numb it and pretend that it's not there. So
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: healing also requires a lot of vulnerability and that's a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: hard one for a lot of people. They, they think
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: they're weak. They're weak.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Why, why, Why would you say it is essential to
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: rediscovering yourself and begin that healing journey? Yeah.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, trauma needs a voice, right? And I know
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: what it feels like to feel like it makes you
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: weak and it's so vulnerable. I mean, my book is
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: so vulnerable. It is out there. All the details, very
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: personal stuff is in this book. And I get a
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: lot of questions like, well, how does that feel to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: know that people are going to read it? And for me,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: it's powerful. It's powerful because it makes others feel less alone.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And to connect, again, this goes back to having healthy
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: relationship with your experiences. The pain, the abuse that has
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: happened to you is not weakness for you. It isn't
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: something that you are deserving of and it doesn't make
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you weak just because it happened to you. I think
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: that if you can reframe it in your brain and
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: view it as powerful to be able to talk about
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: it and to be able to deeply heal within it,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's, to me, that's strength, you know? And
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: so it is hard. It is hard to say things
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: out loud. It really is. But once you kind of
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: put that switch in your mind and make that connection
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: that like, this is actually me being very strong and
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: powerful right now. And it really is. And then you'll
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: find that your voice is healing for yourself and it's
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: healing for others, which is so beautiful.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It really is. It's so, so rewarding to, you know,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of people ask me about being open. You're
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: so open about your story. And it's like, I am open.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I'm open because I want to change the conversation and
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I want people to feel that they can talk about
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: it because we stay sick in our silence. And yeah.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: And it's like to be able to release that is
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: life changing. It really, really is. Yeah.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I agree. Amen.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Just want to thank you so much for being here
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: and for your courage and honesty. And can you tell
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: us where we can find you? Yes.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: So I'm on social media. I'm on Facebook and Instagram, LinkedIn,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: all of those things. I have a website, amymckiernan.com, that
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you can go to and you can read a little
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: bit more about me and there's links to my book.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: You can find the book on Amazon. If you like
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: to support independent authors, you can find it on Book
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Baby Bookshop. I am an independent author, so.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And you can also go to your local bookstore and
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: see if they carry it. I hope that if this
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: resonates with you in any way, that you'll pick it
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: up and see if you find it helpful.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it sounds like it's very helpful. And there's
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: no mistake that you are changing lives. And for all
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: of you out there, I just want you to know
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: that healing is possible, growth is possible, and reclaiming your
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: life is possible. If this conversation has touched you, please
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: share it with someone that may need to hear it. Like, subscribe,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: help to grow this channel and these stories, these life-changing stories. Again,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Amy's book, More Than a Survivor, she shared with You
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Can Find It. This sounds like an incredible book, Amy,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and For any of those out there that are a
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: survivor of sexual assault, this is a book that you're
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: going to want to pick up. And if you're on
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: your own healing journey in recovery, I encourage you to
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: check out my books, Chaos to Clarity and Wake Up,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: You're Not Broken, available April 7th. So thank you all
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: for being here. And remember this. You are not broken
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: and it's time to wake up to your worth. I'll
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: see you next Thursday. Have an incredible week. This is
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Wake Up With Marci. See you soon.