Transcript

DEI · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
0:15
Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
0:18
Speaker 1: wise policy host, Abraham, and I'm your infuriated host Shane.
0:25
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about all of
0:28
Speaker 1: the things that humans and non human animals do, and
0:32
Speaker 1: sometimes we talk about good ideas that get belittled as
0:35
Speaker 1: bad ideas even when they're good ideas. And that's the
0:38
Speaker 1: thing that we do here as a show.
0:40
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, so today we're going to talk about DEI. Now,
0:43
Speaker 2: I would say at the beginning of this that DEI
0:46
Speaker 2: is a very big topic to uncover, and it's a
0:50
Speaker 2: polarizing topic right now in the world, at least in
0:53
Speaker 2: the United States.
0:54
Speaker 1: Where buttholes are about it.
0:56
Speaker 2: So I think what I would say is that we
0:59
Speaker 2: are going to probably talk a lot.
1:01
Speaker 1: About kind of the general idea, what the EI is.
1:05
Speaker 2: And there will be several episodes after this that are
1:08
Speaker 2: going to cover specific topics inside of it, policies, procedures,
1:12
Speaker 2: things that we do, belief systems, all that stuff.
1:15
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about this quite a.
1:16
Speaker 2: Bit given the current landscape, because you know, if we're
1:19
Speaker 2: getting banned by our government, then we're probably doing something right.
1:24
Speaker 1: Fair enough. Yeah, we're here to unpack some of this.
1:27
Speaker 1: We're going to dive into the history of it and
1:29
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing, and so hopefully, hopefully you're
1:32
Speaker 1: here for all of that. Hopefully you will learn something
1:34
Speaker 1: you did not know and walk away with a better
1:37
Speaker 1: understanding and better arms to come to the table with
1:40
Speaker 1: arguments and facts and reason and that sort of thing.
1:43
Speaker 1: But if you are joining us for the first time, welcome,
1:46
Speaker 1: happy to have you here, hope that you are into this,
1:49
Speaker 1: you get as much out of this episode as we
1:51
Speaker 1: intend for you to get out of it, or some
1:53
Speaker 1: approximation of that. And if you do end up liking
1:56
Speaker 1: what you hear today and you would like to support us,
1:59
Speaker 1: you can head over to Patreon and join us there.
2:01
Speaker 1: You can pick up some merch at our merch store,
2:03
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and review, like subscribe, tell a friend,
2:06
Speaker 1: do all those things. I'll talk more about that at
2:08
Speaker 1: the end of our discussion today. And you are joining
2:11
Speaker 1: us here on actually before I even say that, And
2:14
Speaker 1: if you are a returning listener, thanks for coming back.
2:17
Speaker 1: We're happy to have you here, and we hope that
2:18
Speaker 1: you continue to find value and all the things that
2:20
Speaker 1: we talk about I always welcome our new listeners, and
2:23
Speaker 1: I sometimes forget that I need to continue to welcome
2:25
Speaker 1: back our returning listeners, which we hope there are many
2:28
Speaker 1: of you. And yeah, thanks for being here. As I
2:31
Speaker 1: was saying, it is February twenty sixth, which means it
2:34
Speaker 1: is a holiday. In the holiday that we're going to
2:37
Speaker 1: talk about, which is very relevant to today's topic is
2:39
Speaker 1: Black lives matter.
2:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it should be every day. Yeah, you know,
2:43
Speaker 2: they do matter every day. They do matter every day
2:45
Speaker 2: and will always matter. It's also Carnival Day. It is
2:49
Speaker 2: Carpe DM day. I feel that with this topic again.
2:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, seize the day day.
2:54
Speaker 2: It's for Pete's Sake day, whoever Pete is sure.
2:58
Speaker 1: It is Inconvenients Yourself day. Okay, Okay.
3:03
Speaker 2: It is also a Maha shiv I should have practiced beforehand,
3:07
Speaker 2: Maha shivar Ra tree.
3:09
Speaker 1: There we go, Okay, moving on. It is national customized
3:14
Speaker 1: wheel entire day, sure, National letter to an elder day. Okay.
3:20
Speaker 1: It is National Personal Chef's Day. Oh I would love
3:23
Speaker 1: I would love a personal cheft that way. That would
3:25
Speaker 1: be fantastic, same same and I would be so nice
3:28
Speaker 1: to them. Eh right, Yeah, it's National Pistachio Day, speaking
3:32
Speaker 1: of personal chefs. Yeah, bring on those pistachios. It is
3:36
Speaker 1: a pink shirt day. If you weren't already wearing one,
3:39
Speaker 1: now you can.
3:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, your shirt looks close right now. It's not pink,
3:43
Speaker 2: but it's in that family.
3:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, yeah, in the redish color. It's within
3:49
Speaker 1: that hue. It's a tell a fairy tale day, which
3:53
Speaker 1: it is fun. Yes, it is Thermos Bottle Day, Blou.
3:56
Speaker 1: I like that. It is National Energy Week and National
4:01
Speaker 1: Chip Week in the UK, which I'm assuming means fries,
4:04
Speaker 1: like yeah.
4:06
Speaker 2: Come on, get it right, UK, it should be National
4:09
Speaker 2: Fry Week. It's National Eating Disorders Awareness.
4:11
Speaker 1: Week, okay, and National Green Week.
4:14
Speaker 2: And it is National Invasive Species Awareness Week. One of
4:17
Speaker 2: my favorite episodes of The Simpsons is Bart versus Australia
4:20
Speaker 2: and he brings the bullfrog and it was like my
4:22
Speaker 2: first introduction to understanding what an invasive species was.
4:25
Speaker 1: So thank you Simpsons. I remember that one that was.
4:29
Speaker 1: I think he was also on a mission to discover
4:32
Speaker 1: whether toilets flush the opposite direction. That's how she started
4:35
Speaker 1: in that episode. Yeah, okay, it started with that.
4:38
Speaker 2: There's a long distance call and then he ended up
4:40
Speaker 2: racking up a whole bunch of money, and then Australia
4:42
Speaker 2: was mad at him that he owed so much money
4:44
Speaker 2: on a collect called Australia Fun.
4:46
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, yeah, Simpsons, good stuff. Well, we
4:50
Speaker 1: are actually not here to talk about Simpsons, and really
4:53
Speaker 1: not even here to necessarily unpack the background of all
4:56
Speaker 1: of these holidays, although it's possible some of them will
4:59
Speaker 1: become episode top topics at some point, sure who knows.
5:02
Speaker 1: But instead, our actual purpose of today's discussion, as we described,
5:06
Speaker 1: is to unpack the history of diversity, equity and inclusion,
5:12
Speaker 1: or maybe more popularly talked about in the news as
5:17
Speaker 1: d EI, which is what those letters stand for initiatism. There,
5:24
Speaker 1: do you have anything else before we dive into our
5:26
Speaker 1: topic here? Now, I think this topic is going to
5:28
Speaker 1: be big, so let's go ahead and dive into it. Okay,
5:31
Speaker 1: very good, Yes, I agree. Okay. So DEI has been
5:34
Speaker 1: making the news lately as one of the recent political
5:37
Speaker 1: straw man being attacked by conservatives in the search for
5:42
Speaker 1: another culture war boogeyman. And I think as we unpack this,
5:46
Speaker 1: we'll really try and highlight I think the point will
5:49
Speaker 1: become clear. But I want to I think say upfront
5:53
Speaker 1: that I don't think that the initiatives against this are
5:59
Speaker 1: actually I don't think they care about DEI that much,
6:04
Speaker 1: but they tend to go after anything that has an
6:08
Speaker 1: anti racist slant to it, that has a name, and
6:12
Speaker 1: then they just make that a fear mongering talking point
6:16
Speaker 1: among those politicians. So wokeism again, like we did an
6:22
Speaker 1: episode on this, it's not what they are talking about
6:25
Speaker 1: it as and even they like greatly misconstrue it. And
6:28
Speaker 1: it's like essentially the idea, of course is similar to
6:32
Speaker 1: with DEI affirmative action. Yeah, wokeism, DEI. It doesn't matter,
6:37
Speaker 1: Like if there is a name and it has anything
6:39
Speaker 1: to do with anti racism, then they are attacking it.
6:43
Speaker 1: And again I think it's just because they can get
6:46
Speaker 1: people riled up about it. Critical race theory is another one,
6:49
Speaker 1: like it just has a name that they can turn
6:52
Speaker 1: to and get people fired up about it without people
6:54
Speaker 1: understanding what they're worked up about. So it just gives
6:57
Speaker 1: them that culture war boogeyman to en flame and then
7:00
Speaker 1: sense people about.
7:02
Speaker 2: Right, I think now is a good time to unpack
7:04
Speaker 2: the history of DEI so we actually understand what it
7:07
Speaker 2: is how it works, and what will happen when it's gone. So,
7:11
Speaker 2: as Abraham said at the beginning of the episode, DEI
7:14
Speaker 2: stands for diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's an informal name
7:18
Speaker 2: for a series of initiatives that have gradually evolved over decades,
7:22
Speaker 2: following John F. Kennedy's nineteen sixty one Executive Order one
7:25
Speaker 2: ZHO nine two five, which mandated that federal contractors should
7:29
Speaker 2: take quote affirmative action to ensure that applicants are treated
7:32
Speaker 2: equally without regard to race, color, religion, or national origin
7:37
Speaker 2: end quote.
7:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this was right during the Civil Rights era,
7:41
Speaker 1: and at the time, money and power was primarily concentrated
7:45
Speaker 1: in the hands of able bodied men with just very
7:48
Speaker 1: little melanin in their skin who appeared to be of
7:51
Speaker 1: European descent. Sure, and if that sounds like an absurd
7:54
Speaker 1: way to decide how to concentrate power, it is. Before
7:58
Speaker 1: there were laws against doing so. Employers, colleges, landlords, hospitals,
8:03
Speaker 1: the military, the government, and other institutions could refuse employment, admission,
8:09
Speaker 1: medical support, safety, fair treatment, and promotions toward people who
8:14
Speaker 1: had more melanin in their skin or appeared to be
8:18
Speaker 1: not of European descent or who were not men essentially.
8:23
Speaker 2: Right, And that's not to say that things have gotten
8:26
Speaker 2: better since then. Those problems still exist, but at least
8:29
Speaker 2: there are currently some protections in place, at least to
8:32
Speaker 2: some degree, to prevent that from being as overt.
8:35
Speaker 1: As it might have been previously.
8:37
Speaker 2: And we've still got a lot of work to do,
8:38
Speaker 2: but I think it's important to note, like we have
8:40
Speaker 2: come quite a ways since then. Yeah, I think it's
8:44
Speaker 2: just kind of important to that we're not there, We're
8:45
Speaker 2: not where we need to be. We have gotten we
8:47
Speaker 2: have moved forward a little bit.
8:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was taken for granted that that's
8:52
Speaker 1: just how things were. That was just like, that's the
8:56
Speaker 1: power was concentrated in the hands of those people, and
8:59
Speaker 1: that is just how things were. And this sort of
9:02
Speaker 1: switch to say, like, it's probably useful to have other
9:06
Speaker 1: ideas in these spaces, and to have people who come
9:09
Speaker 1: from different backgrounds and who have different histories and who
9:12
Speaker 1: have lived experience who can also participate in the sort
9:16
Speaker 1: of decision making and innovation systems in our culture. And
9:21
Speaker 1: so there were these policies that essentially said like, let's
9:24
Speaker 1: include them too, and as you said, I mean would
9:27
Speaker 1: I would make the case I think that it has
9:29
Speaker 1: improved tremendously since the nineteen sixties, but we've never actually
9:33
Speaker 1: gotten too equality. We've like made some progress, we've made
9:37
Speaker 1: some steps and will unpack those, but we've never actually
9:41
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where like it is a level
9:44
Speaker 1: playing field, right exactly.
9:46
Speaker 2: So there are a couple I think important acts that
9:49
Speaker 2: came out that were initiatives that helped prohibit some of
9:52
Speaker 2: these discrimination issues. One was the US Civil Rights Act
9:55
Speaker 2: of nineteen sixty four. There was also the Vote Voting
9:57
Speaker 2: Rights Act of nineteen sixty five and the Equal Opportunity
10:00
Speaker 2: Act of nineteen seventy two, And all these initiatives were
10:03
Speaker 2: designed to prohibit discrimination and employment colleges, housing, hospitals, in
10:06
Speaker 2: all other institutions. So basically, these were anti discrimination acts
10:10
Speaker 2: that were designed to protect folks that were historically being
10:13
Speaker 2: discriminated against.
10:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so before these types of laws existed that
10:18
Speaker 1: would prohibit that kind of discrimination, businesses, colleges, et cetera.
10:23
Speaker 1: They could choose to not hire people based on their
10:26
Speaker 1: skin color, or based on their sexual orientation, or their disability,
10:29
Speaker 1: or their gender, or their sex or other heritage. They
10:33
Speaker 1: might have, and it was completely regardless of their qualifications
10:37
Speaker 1: for participating in those institutions, Like even if they were
10:40
Speaker 1: extremely qualified, if they were a woman, they might not
10:43
Speaker 1: be allowed. And they if they were someone who was gay,
10:46
Speaker 1: they might not be allowed to participate in those spaces.
10:49
Speaker 1: And even if they were hired in those spaces, those businesses,
10:53
Speaker 1: those institutions, they were not required to pay those people
10:56
Speaker 1: fairly or give them the chance at promotions. Here, so
11:00
Speaker 1: women were denied entrance to colleges or graduate programs because
11:04
Speaker 1: of what was between their legs. Even if they were
11:07
Speaker 1: like top academic performers, they were prevented from entering a
11:11
Speaker 1: higher education. People of color struggled to find employment because
11:15
Speaker 1: of the melanin in their skin, were regardless of whether
11:18
Speaker 1: they had years of experience and training and demonstrated high
11:22
Speaker 1: amounts of aptitude. So there were laws that essentially there
11:25
Speaker 1: were not laws that prevented that kind of discrimination, and
11:30
Speaker 1: there were strong candidates who could not participate because there
11:34
Speaker 1: were not laws that protected against that kind of discrimination.
11:37
Speaker 2: Right, so even in the rare places in which a
11:39
Speaker 2: minority group had managed to gain power, they could also
11:42
Speaker 2: discriminate against able body of white people. Who were just
11:45
Speaker 2: looking for work, not that that happened very often or did,
11:48
Speaker 2: but they could if they wanted to, without laws preventing
11:51
Speaker 2: them from doing so. So basically, in these employment spaces, college,
11:55
Speaker 2: even people applying for health insurance could be denied based
11:58
Speaker 2: on any number of these factors that were simply just
12:02
Speaker 2: factors that somebody were they were born.
12:04
Speaker 1: Having, Yeah, great catch because yeah, even access to basic
12:07
Speaker 1: things like insurance or hospital care like people hospitals.
12:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would be turned away because they because of
12:14
Speaker 2: their color the skin are, because of who they were.
12:16
Speaker 1: Or because they brought ads. We don't turn away from
12:26
Speaker 1: the ads. Here, we apparently let them in, and maybe
12:29
Speaker 1: we should rethink that policy, but here we are all right.
12:33
Speaker 1: So essentially, here what we have is that the people
12:36
Speaker 1: who had the power, they feared losing that power, and
12:40
Speaker 1: they feared losing it to people who thought differently from them,
12:43
Speaker 1: or even if they didn't think differently from them, they
12:45
Speaker 1: just looked different from them, and so they railed against
12:49
Speaker 1: these new laws. They falsely accused these acts of forcing
12:53
Speaker 1: them to hire unqualified candidates. They preached that once these
12:58
Speaker 1: groups who at least appeared difference to them, gain any power,
13:02
Speaker 1: that those groups would continue to strip away the power
13:06
Speaker 1: from these non disabled white men in charge and replace
13:09
Speaker 1: them with people who they believed were incapable of succeeding
13:13
Speaker 1: in those roles. So it essentially here was just people
13:17
Speaker 1: who were born with an advantage, maybe into a wealthy family.
13:22
Speaker 1: They were whites, They were like in an area that
13:25
Speaker 1: was had a lot of resources. They essentially were afraid
13:30
Speaker 1: that by letting other people in they would not have
13:34
Speaker 1: those advantages anymore, and instead they would be flipped. They
13:38
Speaker 1: would then end up with the disadvantages the wrongside of
13:41
Speaker 1: the tracks, if you will, that they would be the
13:43
Speaker 1: ones who were like suffering in those spaces. So it's
13:46
Speaker 1: kind of almost ironic that they're acknowledging the systemic problems
13:51
Speaker 1: that exist and fighting to keep them in place so
13:55
Speaker 1: that they don't land on the other side of them,
13:57
Speaker 1: while arguing at the same time that they don't exist. Right.
14:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the whole thing that always gets me,
14:04
Speaker 2: is like, well, what's the problem?
14:06
Speaker 1: Why is why would that be so bad? Oh?
14:08
Speaker 2: Is it because you've taken advantage of all these folks
14:10
Speaker 2: for all these years and you've maintained power and with
14:13
Speaker 2: and like suppressed large swaths of people, large groups of people.
14:18
Speaker 1: Oh, is that what it is?
14:19
Speaker 2: Oh, you don't want to admit that, But that's the
14:21
Speaker 2: amount of mental gymnastics that somebody has to go through
14:24
Speaker 2: to make the argument for that is astounding to me.
14:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, you basically have to admit that it's a problem
14:31
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that you're concerned about ending up on the
14:35
Speaker 1: short end of that stick.
14:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly all that to say, I think it's
14:40
Speaker 2: important to point out that this is a bedrock principle
14:43
Speaker 2: of conservativism. It's not the only thing in conservativism, but
14:47
Speaker 2: it is a core value a thing. Yeah, it is
14:51
Speaker 2: a thing, and it is a core value to reduce
14:53
Speaker 2: the diversity of ideas and opinions and to constret power
14:56
Speaker 2: in the hands of very few. We see that when
14:58
Speaker 2: they dismantle university programs and say that universities in education
15:01
Speaker 2: will indoctrinate people. Yeah, education doesn't indoctrinate people. Education educates people,
15:06
Speaker 2: and it just so happens that more educated people tend
15:08
Speaker 2: to vote differently than conservative views. That's a different story
15:12
Speaker 2: in a different day. A common strategy is to advertise
15:14
Speaker 2: some scare tactic that minority groups are to blame for
15:17
Speaker 2: things going wrong, even in situations that have nothing to
15:20
Speaker 2: do with these marginalized groups.
15:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's just to prevent any kind
15:25
Speaker 1: of diversity of ideas from existing. Right, is to try
15:29
Speaker 1: and promote homogenization toward a small group of people's idealized
15:35
Speaker 1: version of what a system of community should look like. Now, Nevertheless,
15:42
Speaker 1: these marginalized groups, they organized and they fought for rights
15:46
Speaker 1: and for protections. They protested, they wrote to their representatives,
15:51
Speaker 1: They ran for office, and they argued that they at
15:54
Speaker 1: least deserved a chance to participate in that in jobs
15:58
Speaker 1: and education, the military, to have access to medical care.
16:02
Speaker 1: What crazinesses this, And with bipartisan effort over decades working
16:09
Speaker 1: on these issues, they did make progress toward this end. Right.
16:13
Speaker 2: So, in the nineteen seventies we saw rights expand for
16:15
Speaker 2: women and the first employee resource group was created at Xerox.
16:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the nineteen eighties that was there. It started
16:24
Speaker 1: to include a recognition and initiatives to protect people in
16:28
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ plus community. But not only that, it was
16:32
Speaker 1: also people in religious communities who may have otherwise been
16:35
Speaker 1: discriminated against, Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Christian like ye Mormon even
16:41
Speaker 1: like those were also people who benefited from initiatives to
16:45
Speaker 1: include people from various communities and protect them from like
16:50
Speaker 1: bias and discrimination, right.
16:52
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing that I think people miss is, like,
16:55
Speaker 2: you know, when there are like anti discrimination policies in
16:58
Speaker 2: place that protect religious freedoms, it doesn't just protect people
17:01
Speaker 2: who are different than you. It also protects you who
17:03
Speaker 2: might identify as Christian or Catholic, who is like maybe
17:06
Speaker 2: somebody who feels like, you know, the world is maybe
17:09
Speaker 2: out to get you and that Christians are being persecuted
17:11
Speaker 2: on like some absurd level. But it is a protection
17:14
Speaker 2: as well, Like somebody can't say, oh you're Christian, Oh
17:17
Speaker 2: I see that you have a cross tattoo, you can't work.
17:18
Speaker 1: Here, right, Like they can't do that to you too.
17:21
Speaker 2: So it's a protection for you, the person in power,
17:25
Speaker 2: and it's important to recognize that anyway, it's funny that
17:28
Speaker 2: people can't see that type of thing. So in the
17:30
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties, companies started creating specific positions dedicated to creating
17:33
Speaker 2: policies tailored to their company's needs in support of providing
17:37
Speaker 2: equal opportunity and inclusion for marginalized groups, and the Americans
17:40
Speaker 2: with Disabilities Act started finally improving accessibility for the millions
17:44
Speaker 2: of Americans with various disabilities, including injured veterans. Now, I
17:48
Speaker 2: also want to point out when we talk about this timeline,
17:50
Speaker 2: this is within our lifetime. Yeah, this is within our
17:53
Speaker 2: lifetime as we're talking. This is not historical. This is
17:56
Speaker 2: not Beef Skinner teaching pigeons to guide smart missiles during
18:00
Speaker 2: World War Two in the forties. Like, this is in
18:02
Speaker 2: our lifetime.
18:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not even boomers, this is this is
18:06
Speaker 1: millennials essentially, because yes, most of what we've described so
18:10
Speaker 1: far has happened since we were born. And we're not
18:13
Speaker 1: that old. I mean, we're kind of old, but we're
18:14
Speaker 1: not that old. Not that old. No, I mean, I'm
18:17
Speaker 1: getting gray hair, but I started getting gray hair in
18:20
Speaker 1: my late twenties. So yeah. Anyway, Yeah, So, as these
18:23
Speaker 1: programs grew and they started to spread more, people became
18:27
Speaker 1: increasingly aware of other issues that might exist in some
18:30
Speaker 1: of these shared spaces, and it became important to start
18:34
Speaker 1: considering things like a higher need for sexual harassment policies
18:39
Speaker 1: so that it was less likely that people could be
18:42
Speaker 1: sexually abused when with power imbalances that exist. They started
18:46
Speaker 1: recognizing it was important to be considerate of other cultural practices,
18:50
Speaker 1: that people from other places might think and do things
18:53
Speaker 1: a little bit differently, and that as long as that's
18:56
Speaker 1: not harming anybody like that should be okay. And that
18:58
Speaker 1: includes again, like even people with religious backgrounds who maybe
19:03
Speaker 1: need a they would like to have a prayer room
19:05
Speaker 1: or something, and so they would set aside a place
19:07
Speaker 1: for them to worship if they wished. Just in general,
19:10
Speaker 1: being aware of our biases to help us treat one
19:13
Speaker 1: another better and be treated better ourselves like that was
19:17
Speaker 1: another outcome of some of the push that was happening
19:20
Speaker 1: during this time.
19:21
Speaker 2: Right so in the twenty tens, businesses actually started using
19:25
Speaker 2: DEI processes even more, and those businesses that were using
19:29
Speaker 2: DEI outcomes and objectives and different systems were actually out
19:33
Speaker 2: competing others and saw real benefits.
19:35
Speaker 1: Of a diverse work group or workforce.
19:37
Speaker 2: I should say, there were improvements in morale, creative problem solving, innovation,
19:41
Speaker 2: and broader appeal to a greater number of consumers. Their
19:44
Speaker 2: workforce and their pool that they were able to hire
19:47
Speaker 2: from expanded exponentially. Workplaces thrive with diverse crews of employees,
19:53
Speaker 2: with diverse people working in these spaces.
19:56
Speaker 1: And in the twenty twenties, where we find ourselves now,
19:59
Speaker 1: at least at the time, thus recording this who knows
20:01
Speaker 1: when you're listening to it. As attacks on marginalized groups
20:04
Speaker 1: had been sharply increasing and a global pandemic nearly crippled
20:08
Speaker 1: the entire world economy, Desperate social movements such as hashtag
20:13
Speaker 1: me too and hashtag times Up and hashtag black Lives Matter,
20:17
Speaker 1: they were sort of attempting this grassroots campaign to bring
20:21
Speaker 1: further awareness to the increased division and the apparent rise
20:25
Speaker 1: of bigotry to power. And I think that the fact
20:29
Speaker 1: that there was so much momentum behind these policies should
20:33
Speaker 1: have actually been a red flag to everyone that fascism
20:36
Speaker 1: was just on the doorstep of many countries, especially in
20:40
Speaker 1: the United States. Like the fact that we even had
20:44
Speaker 1: need for something like that showed that we were not
20:49
Speaker 1: out of the woods on these issues, and in fact,
20:52
Speaker 1: we were rapidly retreating toward the dark ages.
20:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, people were radicalizing, for sure. So in twenty twenty five,
20:59
Speaker 2: as fell in con artists Charlotte and Nazi and rapist,
21:02
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was sworn into office again, DEI has been
21:05
Speaker 2: rapidly dismantled in situations around the country and institutions as
21:09
Speaker 2: well around the country, so in a move to avoid
21:12
Speaker 2: political targeting, several major businesses began canceling any and all
21:15
Speaker 2: DEI initiatives that they had created. These companies include, but
21:18
Speaker 2: are not limited to, PEPSI, Disney, Google, GM, Meta, Ford,
21:23
Speaker 2: ge Target, Chipotle, and PayPal.
21:26
Speaker 1: And also probably by the people who are paying for
21:28
Speaker 1: these ads. Okay, so we're sort of walking through the
21:39
Speaker 1: history here of all of the ramp up, through various
21:43
Speaker 1: initiatives that are sort of form the basis of DEI
21:47
Speaker 1: and what has happened more recently, so we're sort of
21:50
Speaker 1: now up to the present here. On January twenty ninth,
21:54
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, just nine days after being sworn into
21:57
Speaker 1: office and just a week after firing the entire Aviation
22:00
Speaker 1: Security Advisory Committee, a black Hawk helicopter collided in mid
22:05
Speaker 1: air with a passenger plane in Washington, DC and this
22:09
Speaker 1: killed I saw various numbers on this, so I'm not
22:11
Speaker 1: one hundred percent clear on the numbers, but the one
22:13
Speaker 1: I saw the most often was that it killed all
22:16
Speaker 1: sixty seven people that were aboard both aircrafts, and the belligerent,
22:21
Speaker 1: dumbass Trump attempted to blame the crash on everyone he
22:25
Speaker 1: didn't like, blamed it on Democrats, on Joe Biden, on
22:28
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, and on DEI, saying, quote, we are all
22:33
Speaker 1: searching for answers. The FAA is actively recruiting workers who
22:37
Speaker 1: suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and
22:43
Speaker 1: physical conditions under a diversity inclusion hiring initiatives. That was
22:47
Speaker 1: almost exactly quote. I messed up a little bit in there,
22:49
Speaker 1: but like he did, the incorrect article there, and when
22:54
Speaker 1: pressed for evidence of this, he reported its common sense.
22:58
Speaker 1: So they asked, how do you know it was DEI,
23:00
Speaker 1: and he says common sense. To be clear, DEI initiatives
23:05
Speaker 1: did not cause this crash. And as I mentioned, he
23:08
Speaker 1: had recently fired the entire Aviation Security Advisory Committee as
23:12
Speaker 1: well as many other airline officials that had belonged to
23:16
Speaker 1: various aspects of air travel, and people had resigned because
23:21
Speaker 1: of him and his policies who were also in that space.
23:24
Speaker 1: There was a tweet that claimed that they had fired
23:27
Speaker 1: three thousand employees. It looks like that has not been substantiated.
23:31
Speaker 1: So I'm not clear on that part. But there was
23:33
Speaker 1: a lot of laying off, and it was already very
23:37
Speaker 1: short staffed, like they were struggling to have enough people
23:39
Speaker 1: to work as it is in air traffic control. That
23:42
Speaker 1: many people leaving obviously did not help. But here he
23:46
Speaker 1: is blaming it on people with disabilities.
23:49
Speaker 2: Right, honestly, Like it's just disgusting. So I think that's
23:52
Speaker 2: where I can leave that part. I mean, there's gonna
23:54
Speaker 2: be more information that comes out about this. I'm sure
23:56
Speaker 2: about causes and stuff like that.
23:57
Speaker 1: But it is not DEI. Yeah, argument that they seem to.
24:00
Speaker 2: Be making, and we'll talk about counter arguments stuff like
24:03
Speaker 2: this later. What they're saying, essentially is they're hiring unqualified people.
24:07
Speaker 1: Right.
24:07
Speaker 2: What makes them unqualified is their disability, and that is
24:10
Speaker 2: not at all what is happening. No, that is not
24:12
Speaker 2: at all what is happening. They're hiring people who are
24:14
Speaker 2: qualified and also have a disability. They may have something
24:17
Speaker 2: else going on, and so I think it's really important
24:19
Speaker 2: to kind of clear that out.
24:20
Speaker 1: No, that is a great catch. Yeah, you're exactly right
24:23
Speaker 1: that it was. The underlying assumption here is that these
24:27
Speaker 1: are people who could not do the job correctly, and
24:29
Speaker 1: it was because they were unqualified, and they were unqualified
24:34
Speaker 1: because they had some disability of or one another, you know,
24:38
Speaker 1: of some or some they were in some other way unqualified.
24:41
Speaker 1: But that's not at all what was actually happened. Not
24:44
Speaker 1: even close, not even close.
24:45
Speaker 2: So this brings us to the point where we've been
24:47
Speaker 2: talking about DEI and kind of what it means at
24:49
Speaker 2: this point in time, but we haven't really kind of
24:51
Speaker 2: unpacked exactly what it means. When we talk about this,
24:54
Speaker 2: diversity refers to the participation of individuals with a variety
24:58
Speaker 2: of backgrounds, including people who have traditionally been marginalized or underrepresented.
25:02
Speaker 2: Equity refers to equal access, so that opportunities for people
25:06
Speaker 2: are fair, just, and impartial. An inclusion means that people
25:10
Speaker 2: in that environment are treated with respect and dignity and
25:13
Speaker 2: are accepted. So dei's primary purpose can be characterized as
25:17
Speaker 2: ensuring that every qualified person in an organization, company, school,
25:20
Speaker 2: or office is treated fairly and has the opportunity to
25:23
Speaker 2: fully participate, regardless of their background or identity. And if
25:26
Speaker 2: you are concerned with DEI, which part of that do
25:29
Speaker 2: you strongly disagree with? I mean, that's The point that
25:31
Speaker 2: I would make here is like, do you disagree that
25:34
Speaker 2: people should have fair opportunities? Do you disagree that people
25:36
Speaker 2: should be treated.
25:37
Speaker 1: Kindly and with respect and dignity? Like? What part of
25:40
Speaker 1: this is the is the actual issue here? Right?
25:43
Speaker 2: Because I would imagine that the issue is not DEI.
25:46
Speaker 2: The issue is that you are not qualified enough to
25:49
Speaker 2: compete with a diverse workforce.
25:51
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah? Yeah, I mean you hear this and it's
25:54
Speaker 1: like the as we mentioned this, not only like an
25:58
Speaker 1: outcome of this could mean that there are people who
26:02
Speaker 1: are black or indigenous people, or from other countries or
26:06
Speaker 1: who speak different languages not participate in those bases, but
26:09
Speaker 1: could also mean that there are places where people who
26:12
Speaker 1: there might be someone who is atheist who runs a
26:15
Speaker 1: company who then hire someone who's Christian and does not
26:18
Speaker 1: make them feel like they don't belong there because they
26:20
Speaker 1: are Christian. It could mean that they onboard people who
26:23
Speaker 1: are from rural communities even though they're in an urban setting,
26:26
Speaker 1: because they want to have the opinions of people who
26:29
Speaker 1: also live in urban areas. Like these initiatives also support
26:33
Speaker 1: that they include people from all backgrounds and walks of
26:37
Speaker 1: life and protect all of them and so it's not
26:41
Speaker 1: just that it is people of color to the exclusion
26:45
Speaker 1: of other people, and particularly of qualifying candidates. It is
26:48
Speaker 1: find the most qualified candidates don't be distracted by the
26:52
Speaker 1: fact that they have a name that is different from
26:54
Speaker 1: one you might otherwise recognize, or you know, other features
26:57
Speaker 1: of who those people are. Yeah, so I think there
27:01
Speaker 1: are some counter arguments. There are kind of there's a
27:04
Speaker 1: lot they kind of overlap with one another. We've mostly
27:08
Speaker 1: said what they sort of are, but will I think
27:11
Speaker 1: unpack a little bit some of the kind of arguments here. So,
27:15
Speaker 1: I think unfortunately initial attempts at affirmative action, they didn't
27:19
Speaker 1: know what they didn't know like they I think they
27:21
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily know what they were always incentivizing. And so
27:24
Speaker 1: there were a couple of missteps that happened early on, specifically,
27:28
Speaker 1: without clear direction, many places took affirmative action to mean
27:33
Speaker 1: x percent of your workforce must be minorities, and the
27:37
Speaker 1: resulting consequence was that they essentially would have what they
27:41
Speaker 1: were sort of colloquially described as racial quotas. That was like,
27:46
Speaker 1: we need to have, you know, five percent of our
27:49
Speaker 1: employees be black. So just like higher up until you
27:53
Speaker 1: get to that ninety five percent and then the last
27:55
Speaker 1: five percent make sure they're all black. And there were
27:57
Speaker 1: several court cases that began to come out of this
28:01
Speaker 1: these sort of policies, and that more clearly shaped affirmative
28:05
Speaker 1: action policies and discouraged this whole idea of like racial quotas.
28:10
Speaker 1: The whole idea of racial quotas have since been prohibited
28:13
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court, but also like it's just helped
28:15
Speaker 1: direct better, more appropriate ways of thinking about affirmative action.
28:20
Speaker 1: And DEI and I didn't really plan to talk about this,
28:23
Speaker 1: but like one of them is, they have tried to
28:25
Speaker 1: take on some types of hiring practices where they don't
28:29
Speaker 1: see the name first, they just see a resume, and
28:31
Speaker 1: then they just look through essentially what their qualifications are,
28:35
Speaker 1: and then they decide based on that whether they're going
28:37
Speaker 1: to bring them in for an interview, and so they
28:40
Speaker 1: don't actually know anything about their race, or their sex
28:43
Speaker 1: or anything else. They just see what their qualifications are.
28:46
Speaker 1: And that alone reduced inequality so much that they wouldn't
28:51
Speaker 1: even need something like racial quotas, because there were really
28:54
Speaker 1: qualified candidates who were otherwise not being chosen because they
28:59
Speaker 1: had a name that sound did like a minority name,
29:02
Speaker 1: or it was a woman or something like.
29:03
Speaker 2: That, right, I mean, I think we talked about that
29:06
Speaker 2: on the on an episode. We talked about it on
29:08
Speaker 2: the Names Matter episode. There's one we did. We talk
29:11
Speaker 2: about that a little bit. Yeah, because that was a
29:12
Speaker 2: pretty pretty important study. It was pretty wild, good reference.
29:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:16
Speaker 2: Others argue that affirmative action resulted in discrimination against white
29:19
Speaker 2: or otherwise advantage groups, and there very well may have
29:22
Speaker 2: been some instances in which white people who have had
29:25
Speaker 2: a hiring advantage due to being white, but had been
29:27
Speaker 2: outperformed by a person of color or a different sex
29:30
Speaker 2: and felt that they were being discriminated against.
29:32
Speaker 1: That that could have happened.
29:33
Speaker 2: But the whole point is that the hiring practices are
29:36
Speaker 2: fair and inclusive, and DEI policies frequently spell out strategies
29:41
Speaker 2: for finding qualified employees without being distracted and dissuaded by
29:44
Speaker 2: the fact that they may have come from a different background.
29:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So you know, the idea is to try
29:49
Speaker 1: and level the plain field. And we talk I think
29:51
Speaker 1: we use we talk a lot about hiring practices as
29:55
Speaker 1: this pertains to business. But again, this actually is across
29:58
Speaker 1: the various elements of society, because it is it is
30:02
Speaker 1: inclusion for acceptance to schools, it is access to medical care,
30:06
Speaker 1: it is access to financial services like getting loans by banks,
30:11
Speaker 1: getting insurance, like, there are so many different places where
30:14
Speaker 1: this could be a factor that affects the extent to
30:18
Speaker 1: which someone would be facing problems because not of anything
30:22
Speaker 1: they've done, or in any lack of things that they
30:24
Speaker 1: have done, but because they are in some group, right
30:28
Speaker 1: that those people have some bias against for whatever reason,
30:31
Speaker 1: like maybe they're profoundly against the Irish, you know, and
30:34
Speaker 1: so they see O'Malley come through and they're like, hmm,
30:37
Speaker 1: I don't know about that person. We're not hiring that, right.
30:40
Speaker 1: So another counter argument that I saw, so I think
30:43
Speaker 1: largely those kind of represent the bulk of them. It's
30:46
Speaker 1: usually things like it ends up being that they just
30:49
Speaker 1: focus on hiring people because they're black or Hispanic or whatever,
30:53
Speaker 1: which is that has been done away with many a
30:56
Speaker 1: long time ago. And then there is the argument essentially
30:59
Speaker 1: that they are high unqualified people, which most which is
31:02
Speaker 1: not true, like that mostly there's no real evidence that
31:04
Speaker 1: that has happened. That mostly seems to be a scare tactic.
31:08
Speaker 1: And then the other one that's sort of unique from
31:10
Speaker 1: those two is that some argue that with how society
31:14
Speaker 1: has gone, that these types of measure measures just aren't
31:17
Speaker 1: needed any longer. They're unnecessary, we are past the point
31:20
Speaker 1: where they matter, despite the fact that if you look
31:24
Speaker 1: around at all, the majority of CEOs, doctors, and professionals
31:28
Speaker 1: at the highest levels are still primarily white, straight, cisgender men, right,
31:33
Speaker 1: not exclusively, but primarily, And like even the initiatives that
31:38
Speaker 1: exist in places like hospitals still find that with those initiatives,
31:43
Speaker 1: they're still struggling. And I say struggling maybe isn't the word.
31:47
Speaker 1: They're not really fulfilling on the promise of ensuring that
31:50
Speaker 1: there are a relative distribution of qualified professionals that represent
31:55
Speaker 1: different backgrounds, including just like white professional Christian women are
32:00
Speaker 1: not as well represented as white cisgendered.
32:04
Speaker 2: Men, right, And so you're going to see that across
32:06
Speaker 2: the board. I mean, we both work in behavior analysis,
32:08
Speaker 2: and you could see that in any in most of
32:10
Speaker 2: the programs that we see for conferences and who's working
32:13
Speaker 2: in research spaces like, you see that quite a bit,
32:15
Speaker 2: that there is a discrepancy where it is you know,
32:18
Speaker 2: a lot of I always kind of say, it's like,
32:21
Speaker 2: there's a lot of older white men that are doing
32:23
Speaker 2: a lot of speaking engagements, and so it is it's
32:25
Speaker 2: just important to note and to maybe kind of figure
32:28
Speaker 2: out some ways to do better with that.
32:30
Speaker 1: It was a long time ago, but when I started
32:32
Speaker 1: my master's program, it was mostly women, and when I
32:38
Speaker 1: started my doctoral program, it was mostly men. Yeah, and
32:43
Speaker 1: so I think that speaks to where the allocation of
32:47
Speaker 1: people sort of existed, and like, I think there were
32:50
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for that, and I do not
32:53
Speaker 1: necessarily I do not blame the people at the institutions
32:55
Speaker 1: who are making those decisions, but I think that there
32:59
Speaker 1: had sort of truly been a push toward what maximum
33:02
Speaker 1: level of achievement was suitable for certain people that sometimes
33:06
Speaker 1: they internalized that idea, thinking well, this is as far as
33:09
Speaker 1: I need to go because I'm a woman, or sometimes
33:12
Speaker 1: it was just me. It was so difficult that like,
33:15
Speaker 1: only people who had the most advantages were likely to
33:18
Speaker 1: try and push through the obstacles that existed. I don't know,
33:21
Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons, I think, and I don't
33:23
Speaker 1: think there was a lot of intentionality behind the people
33:26
Speaker 1: who made the decisions there, but those were the spaces
33:28
Speaker 1: where I found myself and I just thought it was
33:30
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to observe where I'm like, we we
33:33
Speaker 1: went in this space predominantly with women at this level,
33:37
Speaker 1: but at the next level up it completely.
33:39
Speaker 2: Flips like literally the opposite, right absolutely, Speaking of intentionality,
33:44
Speaker 2: here's an ad that we intentionally are taking a break
33:47
Speaker 2: for so you can hear.
33:55
Speaker 1: Okay, we have been talking about, well, we were just
33:58
Speaker 1: sort of unpacking some of what might be considered counter arguments,
34:02
Speaker 1: I guess. But let's start digging into I think the
34:04
Speaker 1: those sort of real world impacts and consequences and what's
34:08
Speaker 1: going on here. And I think we'll start by understanding
34:11
Speaker 1: what happens in places where DEI is specifically included, and
34:17
Speaker 1: the research has been done to look at what happens
34:21
Speaker 1: when you do that sort of thing.
34:22
Speaker 2: Right, This is probably my favorite part of the episode
34:24
Speaker 2: because I think that you and I probably we share.
34:26
Speaker 2: I mean I say probably we share. I would say
34:29
Speaker 2: the same values almost across the board, like almost.
34:32
Speaker 1: Entirely, except I like mustard, you don't like, Yeah, you
34:34
Speaker 1: like mustard, I like muster.
34:35
Speaker 2: That's that's it, entirely, that's that's the division of our podcast.
34:40
Speaker 2: I do you think it is important to know that, Like,
34:42
Speaker 2: what we're going to try to do here is actually
34:43
Speaker 2: just explain actual peer reviewed literature that explains why this
34:48
Speaker 2: is a good thing, not from our personal perspectives or
34:50
Speaker 2: our biases, but understanding what the research is actually saying
34:53
Speaker 2: about this. So that's that's where we're going next. And
34:55
Speaker 2: so this is what really happens with DEI. So in
34:58
Speaker 2: a paper two thousand twenty three paper Edmunds, Flammer, and
35:02
Speaker 2: Glossner in the National Bureau of Economic Research conducted a
35:06
Speaker 2: study of companies boasting as being among the best to
35:09
Speaker 2: work for. They reported the firms with DEI were financially stronger,
35:13
Speaker 2: were more growth oriented, had higher future earnings, higher evaluations ratios,
35:19
Speaker 2: and tended to have greater representation of women in leadership positions.
35:22
Speaker 2: DEI did not change stock market performance either up or down,
35:26
Speaker 2: and research and development professionals with DEI policies had higher
35:30
Speaker 2: and improved innovation than those with less or no DEI.
35:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they implement these policies and these businesses are
35:38
Speaker 1: more financially well off and more competitive. That was the
35:41
Speaker 1: thing that happened right there. Was a twenty twenty three
35:44
Speaker 1: Pew Research survey that was just asking people about how
35:47
Speaker 1: they felt about DEI, and they found that the majority
35:50
Speaker 1: of workers surveyed supported generally DEI initiatives. They regarded them
35:54
Speaker 1: as helpful, important, and necessary. However, they also reported that
35:58
Speaker 1: these opinions did tend to skew in a partisan way,
36:02
Speaker 1: and they were generally viewed more favorably by women and
36:06
Speaker 1: people of color.
36:07
Speaker 2: Oh weird, you know, like I could see a bunch
36:09
Speaker 2: of yeah, a bunch of white these going no, I
36:10
Speaker 2: don't like it.
36:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's kind of shoot out. Yeah, another thing
36:15
Speaker 1: that's happened. Really again, we're sort of talking real world
36:18
Speaker 1: consequences here. So the current push is eliminating DEI. That's
36:23
Speaker 1: like what the current administration is pushing for. What's going on.
36:27
Speaker 1: So there is recently, just like maybe a week ago,
36:31
Speaker 1: a list of trigger words that people who are writing
36:34
Speaker 1: grants should avoid using lest their grants be audited and
36:39
Speaker 1: potentially rejected. And the list here is crazy. So when
36:44
Speaker 1: just for people who aren't aware, when you're trying essentially
36:47
Speaker 1: to get a grant, you are going to write what
36:51
Speaker 1: you're trying to do with that grant who the grant
36:53
Speaker 1: is for, how it's going to succeed. Just what is
36:57
Speaker 1: the whole point of that granted? Right, So, like when
37:00
Speaker 1: when you're writing these grants, like you just you just
37:02
Speaker 1: have to describe what you're doing. You're usually like it's
37:05
Speaker 1: some kind of grant that usually includes people in some way,
37:08
Speaker 1: and so you you're going to talk about it, and
37:11
Speaker 1: important note here about maybe like government censorship and what
37:14
Speaker 1: that should be because a lot of these are research
37:17
Speaker 1: grants that are funded by the government that they fund
37:20
Speaker 1: a lot of different things, research, medical research, social science research,
37:25
Speaker 1: all kinds of things. And so here's a list of
37:27
Speaker 1: words that you should not say lest your grant be
37:31
Speaker 1: targeted and potentially rejected. It is activism, advocates, advocate advocacy,
37:37
Speaker 1: barrier barriers, biased biases, bias towards BIPOC, black and Latin X, disability, disabilities, diversity,
37:48
Speaker 1: diverse community discrimination, equality, equal, equitable, history, historical, female gender diversity.
38:00
Speaker 1: Oh I said that one hate speech excluded minority, Hispanic inclusion, equitable, inequitable, LGBT, marginalized, multicultural,
38:13
Speaker 1: like race, Like, you can't say words like this in
38:18
Speaker 1: grant applications, Like that's insane. That's insane. A lot of
38:21
Speaker 1: those are words that, out of context, have nothing to
38:24
Speaker 1: do with politically charged topics, like you can use them
38:26
Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways. But also they're just saying,
38:29
Speaker 1: like what you can write is white man's penis and
38:33
Speaker 1: that will be fine. Anything else we will not accept.
38:36
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly.
38:38
Speaker 2: For an administration that has spent a lot of time
38:40
Speaker 2: talking about freedom of speech and all the stuff, they
38:43
Speaker 2: certainly don't like people saying certain words.
38:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they are very against speaking freely. Yeah.
38:50
Speaker 2: So despite the effort put toward increasing DEI initiatives, many
38:53
Speaker 2: researchers have found that the actual implementation of DEI has
38:56
Speaker 2: been limited and that many spaces simply check the boxes
39:00
Speaker 2: for DEI on their paperwork without actually having to invested
39:03
Speaker 2: time or energy into any of those programs. So basically,
39:06
Speaker 2: it was they were throwing up a green flag saying yes,
39:08
Speaker 2: we're doing this, but they weren't actually being intentional about
39:11
Speaker 2: any of the changes or any of the systems that
39:13
Speaker 2: they had promised it to engage with. They weren't doing
39:16
Speaker 2: any of those things, which is kind of an unfortunate thing.
39:18
Speaker 2: That's not all places, but there are some places that
39:20
Speaker 2: just kind of checked the box and accepted the grant
39:22
Speaker 2: money or accepted whatever it was, and just kind of like, yeah,
39:25
Speaker 2: you know, marketed that they were doing DEI, but weren't
39:27
Speaker 2: actually doing it.
39:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the performative activism piece without actually doing
39:33
Speaker 1: anything about it is just as bad as supporting like
39:36
Speaker 1: anti DEI initiatives, right, because it it dilutes what that
39:40
Speaker 1: initiative is intended to do and represent anyway so substantially
39:44
Speaker 1: that it actually almost backfires in a way. Right, that
39:47
Speaker 1: is definitely problematic. Okay, again, real world consequences here, quick
39:53
Speaker 1: facts that most people in the United States will know,
39:57
Speaker 1: but I'm going to say it anyway in case you
40:00
Speaker 1: just to make sure you're really clear. To set up
40:02
Speaker 1: the next point, we're going to make rural communities in
40:06
Speaker 1: the United States almost universally support the Republican candidate, and
40:11
Speaker 1: they were instrumental in putting Trump back into office the
40:15
Speaker 1: second time and in putting him into the office the
40:18
Speaker 1: first time. And ironically, rural communities will suffer greatly with
40:23
Speaker 1: the elimination of DEI initiatives. Right.
40:27
Speaker 2: So, DEI initiatives pushed universities, including Ivy League colleges, which
40:31
Speaker 2: we talked about on our Ivy League episode. They pushed
40:34
Speaker 2: these Ivy League colleges to accept people from rural communities
40:36
Speaker 2: who did not come from wealth, who did not have
40:38
Speaker 2: access to private preparatory academies, who did not come from
40:42
Speaker 2: a legacy of Ivy League alums. Even though wealthier people
40:46
Speaker 2: in urban areas had more resources and greater access to
40:48
Speaker 2: education that technically made them stronger candidates for Ivy League colleges,
40:52
Speaker 2: DEI programs saw benefit in including people from rural communities
40:56
Speaker 2: with different backgrounds and so specifically ensured that they also
40:59
Speaker 2: recive opportunities for education despite not necessarily being as competitive
41:04
Speaker 2: as candidates who had greater resources.
41:07
Speaker 1: So what we are.
41:07
Speaker 2: Saying here is that DEI initiatives are not solely race
41:13
Speaker 2: or gender. They also include socioeconomic factors to eliminate issues
41:18
Speaker 2: of classism. Yeah, people who would never would have had
41:21
Speaker 2: the opportunity to go to even a community college have
41:25
Speaker 2: access to these colleges as a result of what can
41:28
Speaker 2: be described as DEI initiatives that ensure people of all
41:31
Speaker 2: socioeconomic backgrounds can also have a fair shake at getting
41:35
Speaker 2: into education systems and further advancing their careers.
41:39
Speaker 1: That's the equity part of diversity equity inclusion, yeah, and
41:44
Speaker 1: I mean arguably the inclusion part as well, but I
41:46
Speaker 1: mean like the part where we're making it as available
41:49
Speaker 1: to all as possible. And there's more to that too,
41:53
Speaker 1: which is that world communities, almost by nature, they tend
41:56
Speaker 1: to have fewer infrastructure supports like roads. They have a
42:00
Speaker 1: couple of main roads or highways or whatever, they have
42:03
Speaker 1: less access to services sometimes, such as medical care and
42:07
Speaker 1: DEI programs have invested in programs and institutions to ensure
42:12
Speaker 1: that they could send doctors to reach rural areas or
42:15
Speaker 1: have them be available via telehealth. They made sure that
42:18
Speaker 1: they had access, they had access roads, or they even
42:22
Speaker 1: just improved the roads in general so they were more
42:24
Speaker 1: resistant to extreme weather, and that supported transportation infrastructure that
42:29
Speaker 1: allowed for more emergency vehicles to make it out to
42:33
Speaker 1: those communities. They would also build partnerships within those communities
42:37
Speaker 1: between them and the more urbanly located providers and those
42:41
Speaker 1: rural communities to ensure that they had access to just
42:45
Speaker 1: basic basic services that they should have a right to.
42:48
Speaker 1: And so without those programs, without these DEI initiatives, people
42:52
Speaker 1: in rural areas are likely to have less access to
42:55
Speaker 1: very basic things as simple as groceries, education, medicine, and
43:00
Speaker 1: emergency supports. And they largely voted for this. They voted
43:05
Speaker 1: for this. That outcome right.
43:08
Speaker 2: The majority of voters over the age of fifty also
43:10
Speaker 2: supported Trump's reelection in November twenty twenty four. Older people
43:15
Speaker 2: also have a history of being pushed out of employment
43:17
Speaker 2: or struggling to find employment due to their age, and
43:20
Speaker 2: DEI programs specifically aim to include older folks in the
43:24
Speaker 2: workplace and support them in other areas without DEI initiatives
43:28
Speaker 2: and DEI protections. That's another way to look at this too.
43:31
Speaker 2: It's not just initiatives, it's also protections. Businesses are free
43:35
Speaker 2: to use discriminatory hiring, promoting, and firing practices and kick
43:40
Speaker 2: older people out of employment just for being older what
43:43
Speaker 2: they deem to be quote unquote too old. They can
43:46
Speaker 2: just remove people from their positions because they are too
43:49
Speaker 2: old for that position. DEI policies would have protected and
43:52
Speaker 2: included older people, and they also voted it away.
43:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I guess as a takeaway, if you ever
44:01
Speaker 1: wanted to fire or just not hire someone for being
44:04
Speaker 1: a Republican or being a Trump supporter, now you can yeah,
44:07
Speaker 1: this discrimination against Republicans brought to you by Donald dip
44:11
Speaker 1: Trump and the Republicans in Congress. M Yeah.
44:15
Speaker 2: So DII programs do not just benefit small minority groups.
44:18
Speaker 2: They benefit everyone that's involved, anyone that participates in the system,
44:22
Speaker 2: in these organizations, in these institutions, And when everyone is
44:25
Speaker 2: treated equally, when people are given an even playing field,
44:28
Speaker 2: everyone benefits. Everyone, Every single person benefits from this. We
44:33
Speaker 2: succeed as a species when we could lift each other up.
44:35
Speaker 2: And DEI is not the problem. It is the solution
44:38
Speaker 2: to all of the things that are going on inclusion,
44:42
Speaker 2: making sure that everybody has a seat at the table.
44:44
Speaker 2: It's so or the majority of people. We talked about
44:46
Speaker 2: this on the episode. Maybe Nazis don't get a seat
44:48
Speaker 2: at the table, but like everybody else can have a
44:50
Speaker 2: seat of the table. And it's really important to be
44:52
Speaker 2: able to have all of that together so that we
44:54
Speaker 2: can actually uplift the species, uplift our communities, and uplift
44:57
Speaker 2: our neighbors and our friends and the people that we
45:00
Speaker 2: care about.
45:01
Speaker 1: And yet DEI is not necessarily perfect, like there are
45:04
Speaker 1: there is room for improvement here and ideally, moving forward
45:08
Speaker 1: it will be better and better, but you can't improve
45:11
Speaker 1: it if it's gone. And what they're trying to replace
45:14
Speaker 1: it with is just nothing, bigotry. I guess like it's
45:18
Speaker 1: it is. It is replaced by a big nothing burger, right,
45:21
Speaker 1: And what happens in that space are the things that
45:24
Speaker 1: were problematic that resulted in those programs being initiated in
45:28
Speaker 1: the first place. So like, this is just the direction
45:32
Speaker 1: that would make sense to go, is to like, if
45:34
Speaker 1: there's a problem with DEI, we bring people to the
45:37
Speaker 1: table to discuss how we improve the system, and we
45:40
Speaker 1: want to have like voices at the table, Like that's
45:42
Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. Yes, And the opposite of that
45:46
Speaker 1: is kick voices out of the table. One rules all
45:48
Speaker 1: and everyone shut up and listen to that person. And
45:51
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to live in that system,
45:53
Speaker 1: which is historically never worked.
45:55
Speaker 2: No, it never happens. It's historically never worked. We have
45:57
Speaker 2: seen it demonstrate in time and time and time and
45:58
Speaker 2: time and time again. Dictator and people like consolidating power
46:02
Speaker 2: into a single person has never worked.
46:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about this in our episode on Royalty.
46:08
Speaker 1: And it's just like these these are unsustainable systems. They
46:12
Speaker 1: collapse under the weight of their hubris and the fact
46:15
Speaker 1: that they are built on a lack of diverse ideas.
46:20
Speaker 1: That you have one person who's not being questioned, who
46:23
Speaker 1: makes terrible decisions because they only surround themselves with yes
46:27
Speaker 1: men and people who refuse to criticize anything they do.
46:30
Speaker 1: They quash dissent, they squash innovation, they squash criticism, and
46:34
Speaker 1: those systems fail. They fail because they cannot succeed without
46:39
Speaker 1: people pointing out the flaws. And so that is what
46:42
Speaker 1: happens when you take those those guardrails down exactly. Okay,
46:47
Speaker 1: well that is what we have to say about DEI
46:50
Speaker 1: for right now. And so here is an advertisement that
46:55
Speaker 1: is happening. All right, we are back. And so when
47:07
Speaker 1: we record, we like to wrap our episodes up by
47:10
Speaker 1: recommending some things. Sometimes it's movies or music, or books
47:14
Speaker 1: or TV shows or activities or life hacks. Who knows.
47:19
Speaker 1: We just recommend something that we feel like we want
47:21
Speaker 1: to recommend, and it often is unrelated to our topic
47:24
Speaker 1: at hand, and sometimes it is related. But before I
47:27
Speaker 1: do that, I need to get through the credits. And
47:28
Speaker 1: again I would like to say, if you are joining
47:30
Speaker 1: us for the first time, I hope you've made it
47:32
Speaker 1: all the way through, and I hope that you enjoyed
47:34
Speaker 1: what you heard today. And if you did and you
47:36
Speaker 1: would like to support us, you can join us on Patreon.
47:39
Speaker 1: If you do that, you'll get access to behind the
47:40
Speaker 1: scenes content at free content, some additional bonus goodies, all
47:44
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I also will read your list
47:47
Speaker 1: on these full length episodes that we publish that come
47:49
Speaker 1: out every Wednesday and say big thank you to the
47:52
Speaker 1: people who help continue to allow us to be a show.
47:54
Speaker 1: And that is Mike, m Megan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Olivia, Brian,
47:59
Speaker 1: Asha and Kiara. Thank you so much. Yeah, we love
48:02
Speaker 1: you so much. We love you to the moon and back,
48:05
Speaker 1: indeed the very real moon. Also, thank you so much
48:09
Speaker 1: to my team of people who help make this happen.
48:11
Speaker 1: Writing in fact checking from Shane and myself. Our social
48:14
Speaker 1: media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our musical and sound
48:18
Speaker 1: producing engineer person in the chair as Justin, who is
48:23
Speaker 1: very very good at this and it helps make it
48:25
Speaker 1: sound like I am not in a ball full of marbles,
48:28
Speaker 1: which is I guess what it sounds like when I
48:29
Speaker 1: record sometimes.
48:31
Speaker 2: Ah well, I mean I don't think you sound like that,
48:33
Speaker 2: but just does a great job of making sure that
48:35
Speaker 2: never happens.
48:36
Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, anyway, if you would like to tell us
48:39
Speaker 1: about your thoughts about DEI or anything else that we
48:42
Speaker 1: have talked about, or if you just want to reach
48:44
Speaker 1: out and say, hey, you guys are great, We're good
48:46
Speaker 1: with all of that. You can email us directly at
48:48
Speaker 1: info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. We're also on the social
48:52
Speaker 1: media platforms. I'm particularly checking out blue Sky right now
48:56
Speaker 1: is where I'm spending my time. Although I do feel
48:59
Speaker 1: like I can maybe go over to Meta and just
49:01
Speaker 1: make some wildly inaccurate claims about Mark Zuckerberg because apparently
49:06
Speaker 1: you can say whatever you want over there. Now, there's
49:07
Speaker 1: no rules. There are no rules. There are no rules,
49:10
Speaker 1: which means there is no value. But let's go. Let's
49:13
Speaker 1: go make fun of them for that. Yeah. Otherwise, you
49:15
Speaker 1: can reach out to us. We'll try and talk to
49:17
Speaker 1: you on those and those places, and we're happy to
49:19
Speaker 1: hear from everybody, and we like hearing from you. But
49:21
Speaker 1: before we move on today, let's recommend some things. Yeah, recommendations.
49:33
Speaker 1: I'm going to recommend a thing that is relevant to
49:36
Speaker 1: the topic at hand. I have been trying to, as
49:38
Speaker 1: I post things on social media, include hashtag DEI and
49:43
Speaker 1: everything I post, regardless of what it is. I am
49:46
Speaker 1: hoping to just kind of mess with the people who
49:48
Speaker 1: would see these kind of things and flood the flood,
49:52
Speaker 1: the ethernet, the sphere, the Internet, the ethersphere, I don't
49:56
Speaker 1: know what to call it, and the flood the zeitgeist
49:58
Speaker 1: with the word DEI so much that they can't even
50:01
Speaker 1: get their heads on straight. So I'm recommending you joined
50:04
Speaker 1: me in that. Just whatever you post, it doesn't matter
50:06
Speaker 1: what it is, just include DEI, just to troll them
50:08
Speaker 1: a little bit, just to most of them, because they
50:09
Speaker 1: deserve it, because they're being jerks. They're being jerks. You're right,
50:12
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right.
50:14
Speaker 2: I'm gonna recommend something that is getting a lot of
50:16
Speaker 2: criticism for being considered DEI, but it's absolutely not. It's
50:19
Speaker 2: just a good movie. And that is Captain America's Brave
50:22
Speaker 2: New World. This is the new Captain America movie. I
50:25
Speaker 2: saw it yesterday. It includes Anthony Mackie as Captain America,
50:31
Speaker 2: which is he's great in it, and I.
50:33
Speaker 1: Love it because he is.
50:34
Speaker 2: He's so good in it and he is. You know,
50:38
Speaker 2: he's a Captain America without a super soldier's herem so
50:41
Speaker 2: it makes him even more relatable. Right, Harrison Ford is
50:44
Speaker 2: great as Thunderbolt Ross in this There's a lot of
50:46
Speaker 2: really good surprises in it that are really cool. I
50:48
Speaker 2: just thought it was a lot of fun. It was
50:50
Speaker 2: just a really great political thriller that also included monsters
50:53
Speaker 2: and space things.
50:55
Speaker 1: Fun. Yeah, as all good political thrillers. Duh, duh, all right, fun.
51:01
Speaker 1: I'm excited to check that out. Well, if you decide
51:04
Speaker 1: those check those things out or attempt to take on
51:06
Speaker 1: posting DEI and everything, you can let us know about it.
51:09
Speaker 1: We're happy to hear from you. My also didn't say this,
51:11
Speaker 1: but you can leave us a rating and review wherever
51:13
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. That helps people find us click
51:15
Speaker 1: on those five stars. That just makes the algorithm like
51:18
Speaker 1: us a lot. And then of course leaving a review
51:20
Speaker 1: means that more people see that and they're like, ooh,
51:22
Speaker 1: I'll check that out. But if you don't have time
51:24
Speaker 1: for that, I understand, it's totally okay. Most of the time,
51:27
Speaker 1: I think people find podcasts via word of mouth, So
51:30
Speaker 1: if you'd like to share us, you should just tell
51:31
Speaker 1: somebody and then they'll go check us out and then
51:33
Speaker 1: all all the good things, and we appreciate it. But
51:36
Speaker 1: I think that that is all that we have to
51:37
Speaker 1: say about this topic for now and about Captain America.
51:42
Speaker 1: Is there anything you would like to add or anything
51:43
Speaker 1: that I forgot before we wrap up today? Be good
51:46
Speaker 1: to each other. Indeed, yes, be good to each other.
51:49
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, good good closing words. All right, Well,
51:52
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. This is Abraham and this is Shane.
51:55
Speaker 1: We're out.
51:55
Speaker 2: See Yeah, you've been listening to Why We Do what
51:59
Speaker 2: We Do.
52:00
Speaker 1: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
52:02
Speaker 1: going to WWD WWD podcast dot com.
52:06
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome
52:08
Speaker 2: day