Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gypsy Rose Blanchard explains Munchhausen mom's murder & the odd disappearance of Courtney Roland

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Gypsy Rose Blanchard explains Munchhausen mom's murder & the odd disappearance of Courtney Roland · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. She had a very sweet personality,
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Speaker 1: very convincing. She would call it southern charm, and she
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Speaker 1: needs her southern charm to get them to be friendly
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Speaker 1: and get on their good side. Did you hate your
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Speaker 1: mother at that point? I didn't hate her. You wanted
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Speaker 1: her dead? Yes, but it was not because I hated her.
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Speaker 1: It was because I wanted to escape. Everything went quiet.
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Speaker 1: A young girl describes listening as her mother is stabbed
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Speaker 1: to death by a boyfriend she meets on a Christian
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Speaker 1: dating website. But that is just really the beginning of
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Speaker 1: the story. I mean, sy this is crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us. How do we get to
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Speaker 1: the point where a young girl is describing how she
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Speaker 1: meets this boyfriend on a Christian dating website and she
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Speaker 1: listens as quote, everything went quiet as her mother after
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Speaker 1: calling out her name, Gypsy, that's the daughter's name, repeatedly,
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Speaker 1: everything goes quiet and she just waits in the next
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Speaker 1: room as her mother is stabbed dead. Again, that's just
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Speaker 1: the beginning of the story. This is what we know.
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Speaker 1: A syndrome called Munchhausen by proxy comes into play. Joining
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Speaker 1: me right now. Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist and
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Speaker 1: creator of Anxiety tools dot Com. Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned
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Speaker 1: forensic expert, John Limley, Crime Stories contributing reporter, all joining
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Speaker 1: us on this this all Star panel to break it,
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Speaker 1: to put it back together again. Let's start with you,
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Speaker 1: John Limley, The murder of the Mother is really just
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Speaker 1: the beginning of the story. This story started when Gypsy
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Speaker 1: Blanchard was just a tiny little girl. With Gypsy in
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Speaker 1: and out of the hospital, over and over and over,
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Speaker 1: a feeding bag, intra venous tubes. It goes on and on,
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Speaker 1: multiple life threatening surgeries and infections. Let's start at the beginning,
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Speaker 1: John Limley, what happened? Gypsy Rose Blanchard grew up Nancy
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Speaker 1: really not knowing much about the world outside of a
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Speaker 1: doctor's office or hospital rooms and a pink house in
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Speaker 1: Missouri where she lived with her mom d D. By
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Speaker 1: the time she was eight, Gypsy Blanchard was allegedly suffering
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Speaker 1: from leukemia, muscular dystrict vision and hearing impairments, even seizures.
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Speaker 1: Gypsy used a wheelchair to get around and a feeding
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Speaker 1: two for nutrition and medicine. In her World of Coms.
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Speaker 1: You left out the fact that she's bald. The little
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Speaker 1: girl is bald, wearing a little skull cap on her head,
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Speaker 1: which indicates to me, uh Dr Chloe Karma cold, that
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Speaker 1: the little girl had cancer and from her treatments, has
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Speaker 1: gone bald. I mean, I'm looking at her a photos
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Speaker 1: of gypsy is just a little girl with a skull
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Speaker 1: cap on, extremely pale dressed. She looks like she's about
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Speaker 1: ten years old, but she's dressed like about a five
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Speaker 1: year old, and she looks extremely ill. I think even
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Speaker 1: some of her teeth have fallen out. Yes, well, Nancy,
3:43
Speaker 1: what's really terrible is that essentially she is extremely ill. However,
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Speaker 1: the illness doesn't have to do with a physical ailment.
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Speaker 1: The illness has to do with a terrible form of
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Speaker 1: denial and break with reality that's been forced upon her
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Speaker 1: by her own mother, which is which is so incredibly sick.
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Speaker 1: Back to John Limley, John, So she is suffering from leukemia,
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Speaker 1: muscular dystrophy, a host of health impairments. Her head is bald,
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Speaker 1: she's being fed through a feeding tube. What does that
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Speaker 1: entail Joseph Scott Morgan to be fed through a feeding tube?
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Speaker 1: Feeding tube is a source of a source of conveying
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Speaker 1: nutrition into someone where this literally has to be surgically implanted, uh,
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Speaker 1: into the digestive track of an individual, so that they
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Speaker 1: can absorb the nutrients from liquefied food. If you can
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Speaker 1: imagine something along the lines of ensure that people take
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Speaker 1: as a nutritional supplement. I don't even know what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to kick it off like this, uh,
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Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan, But I think what you're trying to
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Speaker 1: say in your doctor talk is you get a cube
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Speaker 1: and you surgically create you cut a hole in the
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Speaker 1: person's stomach is and it goes into their stomach. Just
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Speaker 1: talking regular people talk, Joseph Scott Morgan. What is a
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Speaker 1: fading tube and how does it work? It has to
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Speaker 1: be inserted into the body, Nancy, And uh, this is
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Speaker 1: generally done for people that are so um debilitated, they're
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Speaker 1: so sick that they can't eat for themselves, and that's
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Speaker 1: what had been put forth and so in the body.
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Speaker 1: How well surgically Nancy, you know what, You cut a
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Speaker 1: hole in the stomach and you put a tube in
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Speaker 1: there and it goes into your stomach. Is that right? Yes?
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Speaker 1: I'm having to cross examine you know what you are.
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Speaker 1: You're a hostile witness. I'm having to cross examine my
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Speaker 1: own witness. Your honor may have permission to cross examined
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Speaker 1: Josica Morgan because he's being very very Uh. Let me
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Speaker 1: just say, you're not working in harmony with me, Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. You're not say how does it work? I
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Speaker 1: don't mean insert a feeding tube and for all I know,
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Speaker 1: you could swallow it. Okay, I don't even know what
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Speaker 1: you're saying, or it could be an intravenous drip. That's
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Speaker 1: not what this mom did to this girl. She had
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Speaker 1: her a feeding tube stuck in her stomach, cut open
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Speaker 1: and a feeding tube put in. That's how the little
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Speaker 1: girl ate. And there's nothing wrong with her. Joe Scott,
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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with the girl. No, there is nothing
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Speaker 1: wrong with a girl. That much I understood. Okay, back
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Speaker 1: to you, Limbley. Now in between these hospital stays, Nancy
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Speaker 1: gypsy and d D really created. But you're on a
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Speaker 1: first name basis with the mom who's d D d
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Speaker 1: D is gypsies mom. In between your real name, her
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Speaker 1: full name is Claudon A. D. D. Blanchard everyone knew
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Speaker 1: her as d d Well. I know her as a
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Speaker 1: defendant number one to three four in the penitentiary. That's
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Speaker 1: how I'd like to think of her. But back to
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Speaker 1: Gypsy's mother, how did she manage to fake? You know?
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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on just a moment. Let's let's just
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Speaker 1: get right down to it. Take a Listen to this
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Speaker 1: girl describing the night her mother is murdered. I heard
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Speaker 1: her scream once and there was more screen, but like
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Speaker 1: the kind of horror film, just like a startled screen.
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Speaker 1: And she called out to my name about three or
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Speaker 1: four times. And at that point I wanted to go
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Speaker 1: help her so bad, but I was so afraid to
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Speaker 1: get up. It's like my I wouldn't move, and then
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Speaker 1: everything just went quiet. Were you excited that your new
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Speaker 1: life was about to begin? I was excited, but at
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Speaker 1: the same time it was it was overwhelming. Did you
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Speaker 1: feel a rush of joy? It would come in those
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Speaker 1: sports of happiness, but I wouldn't have breakdowns where I
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Speaker 1: started crying, feeling remorse, guilt, also missing her at the
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Speaker 1: same time. That's from ABC's But Before You judge this girl,
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Speaker 1: Listen to her describing being chained chained c H. A
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Speaker 1: I n A D chained to her bed as a child. Listen,
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Speaker 1: she physically changed her to the physically chained me to
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Speaker 1: the bed and put bells on the doors and told
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Speaker 1: anybody that I probably would have trusted that I was
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Speaker 1: going through a phase and to tell her if I
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Speaker 1: was doing anything behind her Back to John Linley, Crime Stories,
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, how did the mom fake the daughter's illnesses?
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Speaker 1: It was a lot of doctor shopping, Nancy. They would
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Speaker 1: go from doctor to doctor in cities that would either
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Speaker 1: be next door neighbor cities to hundreds of miles away.
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Speaker 1: They were constantly on the move when it came to
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Speaker 1: medical facilities, and Gypsy's mom would only let the doctors
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Speaker 1: spend so much time with Gypsy. And there was a
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Speaker 1: lot of prep between Gypsy and her mom before they
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Speaker 1: would go to a doctor's visit about what she should say,
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Speaker 1: what she shouldn't say, what she should do, how she
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Speaker 1: should appear immobile or nauseated. It was a lot of theater,
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Speaker 1: a lot of preparation um and a lot of staying
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Speaker 1: on the move. Quote the prison that I was living
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Speaker 1: in before with my mom, and it's like I couldn't walk.
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Speaker 1: I couldn't eat, I couldn't have friends, I couldn't go outside,
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Speaker 1: you know, and play with friends or anything. She kept
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Speaker 1: her daughter chained to a bed, confined to a wheelchair
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Speaker 1: with drastic steps to convince the world her daughter's illness
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Speaker 1: included leukemia muscular distrophe. She would shave her daughter's head,
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Speaker 1: rub numbing cream on her gums to make her drool.
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Speaker 1: Think about it, she said, Gypsy had a mental age
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Speaker 1: of a child much younger than she was. And in
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Speaker 1: fact it was so convincing dozens dozens of doctors, thirty
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Speaker 1: six forty doctors were fooled and prescribed medication. And for
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Speaker 1: this child, she even underwent surgery to have her salivary
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Speaker 1: glands removed. What does that mean? Joe Scott Morgan, And
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Speaker 1: let me warn you ahead of time, speak in regular
11:14
Speaker 1: people taught. We are not in one of your forensic classes. Okay,
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Speaker 1: what does it mean to have salivary glands removed? Salivary
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Speaker 1: glands exist within our mouths and these produced saliva or
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Speaker 1: in common speak, spit uh is what it comes down to.
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Speaker 1: It helps moisten the mouth and it helps with us
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Speaker 1: digesting food. And it is amazing to me that any
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Speaker 1: physician would go in and surgically remove these without without
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Speaker 1: some kind of scientific basis, nancy, because this this really
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Speaker 1: inhibits our ability to not just digest food, but even
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Speaker 1: to food. You know, we kind of take for granted
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Speaker 1: every day our ability to to swallow things, as saliva
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Speaker 1: in one sense, acts almost like a lubricant to get
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Speaker 1: food down our throats. So this makes it even more horrific.
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine trying to eat a hot dog and
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Speaker 1: you're doing it with a completely dry mouth, And and
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Speaker 1: that's what this this young girl was going going through.
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Speaker 1: Um And I'm I'm horrified by what the mother has done.
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Speaker 1: But equally, I am horrified at what the medical community
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Speaker 1: allowed to happen. And I don't abide people standing up
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Speaker 1: and uh and defending the medical community in all these cases.
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Speaker 1: I don't care how much. Every time doctors would get suspicion,
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Speaker 1: just she would talk them down, scream at them, and
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Speaker 1: then leave. In fact, Joe Scott one time she went
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Speaker 1: so far as to leave and tell the next doctor
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Speaker 1: that they had been living in Louisiana and all of
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Speaker 1: the medical records were destroyed and Hurricane Katrina, so they
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Speaker 1: were having to start over from scratch. She would tell
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Speaker 1: the little girl Gypsy quote, don't talk, just sit there
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Speaker 1: and play with your stuffed animal and we'll do something
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Speaker 1: fun after this should tell the daughter. As a matter
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Speaker 1: of fact, listen to Gypsy the girl describe lying for
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Speaker 1: her mother on ABC's You Know a lot of people
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Speaker 1: see this and just wonder, why why didn't you say anything.
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Speaker 1: I know I beat myself up about that all the time,
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Speaker 1: but I have to understand my mind framed thin. I
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Speaker 1: was always so afraid of her, afraid of the consequences.
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Speaker 1: After my friend Dr Phil asked Gypsy, listen to what
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Speaker 1: she said. She taught me how to be a good liar,
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Speaker 1: a very good liar, without any conscious and I'm changing that.
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Speaker 1: I'm trying to be a good person now, be like
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Speaker 1: my mother, and I'm nothing like her. And it wasn't
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Speaker 1: just the doctors. To Dr Chloe Carmichael, uh psychologists joining
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Speaker 1: us from New York, and the creator of Anxiety tools
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Speaker 1: dot Com. Friends and even relatives had never seen the
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Speaker 1: little girl walk, and they were shocked when they saw
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Speaker 1: the girl arrive in court after her mother's death on
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Speaker 1: her own two feet, as opposed to being pushed around
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Speaker 1: in a wheelchair. So it wasn't just doctors that were fooled.
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Speaker 1: Friends and relatives had no idea the girl could even walk.
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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe well Nancy. Part of Gypsy herself was probably
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Speaker 1: somewhat fooled. I mean, if you can imagine how warping
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Speaker 1: and invalidating it would be to be told from the
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Speaker 1: time the ear of you know, just a tiny baby,
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Speaker 1: that you know you have a disability, and that you
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Speaker 1: can't walk, and that you can't mature. Moreover, to be
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Speaker 1: told this by your own mother, who's you know, your
15:22
Speaker 1: source of protection. I can't even begin to describe how
15:26
Speaker 1: disorienting it would be. So there's a part of Gypsy
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Speaker 1: herself that probably actually believed this. The one thing that
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Speaker 1: is absolutely universal if you look at every single medical record,
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Speaker 1: is that the little girl never spoke. Every single medical
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Speaker 1: document says mother reported, mother, states history by mother, and
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Speaker 1: the little girl says that as she grew up, her
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Speaker 1: mother became more and more controlling, and as I told
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Speaker 1: you earlier, when she tried to actually run away, she
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Speaker 1: the mom chained her to the bed, physically chained her
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Speaker 1: and put bells on the doors and told the adults
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Speaker 1: that Gypsy knew that Gypsy was going through a phase
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Speaker 1: and that she was trying to do things behind the
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Speaker 1: mom's back like runaway. The mom cut off all contact
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Speaker 1: with friends, took her phone and computer away from her,
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Speaker 1: and would greatly limit any exposure to the outside world,
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Speaker 1: but somehow she managed to get her mits on a
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Speaker 1: dating website. John Limley what happened then? As Gypsy continued
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Speaker 1: to be defiant, she even created, as you say, an
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Speaker 1: online dating profile behind her mom's back, and she eventually
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Speaker 1: connected with a Nicholas go To John, a man from
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Speaker 1: Big Bend, Wisconsin. The two fell in love had a
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Speaker 1: secret online relationship for about two and a half years
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Speaker 1: Gypsy as has told and in June of Gypsy said
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Speaker 1: that while d D her mom took her to a
17:09
Speaker 1: routine hospital appointment, go To John traveled back to Missouri.
17:14
Speaker 1: He then checked into a local motel where he waited
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Speaker 1: for Gypsy to let him know that d D was asleep.
17:21
Speaker 1: Go To John then went to Gypsy and her mom's house,
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Speaker 1: where Gypsy handed him gloves, duct tape, and a knife.
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Speaker 1: While Gypsy was hiding in the bathroom. Go To John
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Speaker 1: went into the bedroom, where he later admitted to police
17:37
Speaker 1: that he stabbed d D. You know it's it's a
17:41
Speaker 1: horrible and tragic situation all the way around. But I
17:44
Speaker 1: can tell you this, Joseph Scott Morrigan, you know how
17:48
Speaker 1: I feel about the twins, and I know how you
17:50
Speaker 1: feel about your son. Can you imagine somebody slicing your
17:55
Speaker 1: child's stomach open and sticking it to you a bennet
17:58
Speaker 1: or chaining him to a bed. I'm I'm not for murder,
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Speaker 1: and I agree with what the daughter said. She said,
18:09
Speaker 1: I'm not glad my mom is dead, but I'm glad
18:14
Speaker 1: I'm out of that situation. I don't know. I really
18:17
Speaker 1: think if this had been put to a jury, they
18:19
Speaker 1: would have let her go. Joe Scott, I mean, yeah,
18:22
Speaker 1: I've been around enough juries. They usually usually if they
18:25
Speaker 1: have the right evidence, do the right thing. Boy, you're
18:29
Speaker 1: not kidding. And there's a huge satality of evidence here.
18:33
Speaker 1: And just to back up one quick second there, there's
18:36
Speaker 1: also one more detail that's can you talk in regular English?
18:42
Speaker 1: Ha ha? Sure, I'm not in biology one I won
18:45
Speaker 1: and in college. Okay, I'm a law you're not a scientist.
18:50
Speaker 1: We'll make it general science. Um it. There's also a
18:56
Speaker 1: story that's floating around out there that from an early age, uh,
19:01
Speaker 1: that the mama would prepare this child's meals. And this
19:05
Speaker 1: is very, very disturbing. Uh. And it's alleged that she
19:11
Speaker 1: was putting weed killer in this child's food. And going
19:16
Speaker 1: back to this idea of her hair falling out, a
19:19
Speaker 1: lot of these diseases that this child was presenting with,
19:24
Speaker 1: everything from muscular dystrophy to asthma to all these different
19:28
Speaker 1: things that could potentially be accounted for by the fact
19:33
Speaker 1: that she was being administered poisoned slowly. Um. This is
19:38
Speaker 1: a device that's been used in movies. You know. We
19:40
Speaker 1: think back to like the sixth Cents, that one horrible
19:43
Speaker 1: scene in there, and you can't imagine, um, what this
19:46
Speaker 1: child was going through. So she she had really been
19:49
Speaker 1: drugged down this road for a long long time, Nancy.
19:53
Speaker 1: And it gives you pause, as a parent certainly does,
19:56
Speaker 1: to think, Uh, man, what uh, what would you have
20:01
Speaker 1: done to somebody that had done this to your child?
20:03
Speaker 1: Kill him and warning, kill them in a minute, and
20:09
Speaker 1: sit in jail every day for the rest of my life.
20:11
Speaker 1: And thank god I had the opportunity to kill them.
20:15
Speaker 1: There there you go, That's what I would do. And
20:18
Speaker 1: now this girl has ended up behind bars. Now I
20:24
Speaker 1: don't really understand that. I know she plotted to kill
20:28
Speaker 1: her mother. I know that, But the abuse this child
20:32
Speaker 1: lived through from the beginning of her life up until
20:36
Speaker 1: her teens is documented by hospital records. Everything is documented.
20:44
Speaker 1: My friend Dr Phil asked Gypsy if she was involved
20:49
Speaker 1: in her mother's murder. Listen to what she said, should
20:53
Speaker 1: you be in this prison? To be honest, I have
20:57
Speaker 1: complicated feelings about that. I believe firmly that no matter what,
21:02
Speaker 1: murder is not okay. But in time, I don't believe
21:06
Speaker 1: I deserve as many years as I got. But your
21:09
Speaker 1: mother is dead, and she was murdered, and you were involved,
21:15
Speaker 1: I was what would be your jest. I'm not really
21:19
Speaker 1: certain of that. I do believe that I do deserve
21:22
Speaker 1: to spend some time in prison for that crime, but
21:26
Speaker 1: also I understand why it happened, and I don't believe
21:33
Speaker 1: that I'm in the right place to get the help
21:36
Speaker 1: that I need. Are you glad your mother's did No, sir,
21:41
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I'm out of that situation, but I
21:43
Speaker 1: am not issues dead. She was also asked what kind
21:48
Speaker 1: of mother? Why was your mom? This is what she says.
21:54
Speaker 1: Very protective. Do you think she protected you? No, not
21:58
Speaker 1: in in certain ways, yes, in other ways. You know, Um,
22:02
Speaker 1: I think that she was very sick in her mind
22:08
Speaker 1: for a long time. I believe like we were best friends.
22:10
Speaker 1: And when I was younger, she was my best friend.
22:13
Speaker 1: She was your only friend other than my stuffed animals,
22:18
Speaker 1: And so I thought that she was a great mother,
22:20
Speaker 1: no complaints. We got along so perfect, you know. I
22:24
Speaker 1: thought her as an angel that can do no wrong.
22:30
Speaker 1: But as Gypsy got older and became curious of life
22:33
Speaker 1: outside the house, she says, Mom Deeedy began exerting more control,
22:38
Speaker 1: and there were consequences. What happens when she got upset
22:41
Speaker 1: with you. It would go into an argument that would
22:43
Speaker 1: last a couple of days, or it could be something
22:46
Speaker 1: where she wouldn't feed me for two days or so
22:51
Speaker 1: physical with you. It started to be physical in two
22:53
Speaker 1: thousand eleven. She would hit me with a coat hanger sometimes.
22:58
Speaker 1: Did you ever fight back? Because I was too afraid to.
23:03
Speaker 1: That is Gypsy Blanchard on ABC's I'm gonna pause and
23:09
Speaker 1: thank our partner making today's serious sex program possible. And
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Speaker 1: here's my question, what's your story In two thousand eighteen,
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Speaker 1: she is, she still loves me in some small way,
24:55
Speaker 1: and I want her to know that I am sorry.
24:57
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The young girl ends up behind bars, her
25:02
Speaker 1: mother dead, after we learned she has been tortured by
25:08
Speaker 1: her mother ever since she was just a few months old.
25:15
Speaker 1: To John Limley, investigative reporter from Crime Stories, Um, John Limley,
25:20
Speaker 1: let me ask you what is going to happen to
25:23
Speaker 1: Gypsy now and to the boyfriend? Gypsy pleaded guilty Nancy
25:28
Speaker 1: to second degree murder in July. She is serving a
25:34
Speaker 1: tenure sentence at a correctional center in Missouri. Go to
25:38
Speaker 1: John continues to sit in Greene County Jail in Missouri.
25:43
Speaker 1: He pleaded not guilty to first degree murder. He's awaiting
25:47
Speaker 1: trial scheduled for November. He faces the possibility of life
25:54
Speaker 1: in prison if convicted. The daughter insists I do not
25:58
Speaker 1: deserve this. I do not deserve, in other words, the
26:03
Speaker 1: ten years that she got behind bars. I agree with her.
26:06
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe Carmichael. Yes, actually, Nancy, I I very much
26:11
Speaker 1: agree as well. UM it seems pretty clear from the
26:14
Speaker 1: answer that that she gave that you quoted where she said,
26:18
Speaker 1: I'm not glad that my mom is dead, but I'm
26:20
Speaker 1: glad to be out of this situation. UM. I believe
26:24
Speaker 1: that she actually felt that it was a binary choice
26:28
Speaker 1: for her, and it's her own mother's abuse that that
26:32
Speaker 1: put her into that mindset. As you know, Nancy, you're
26:35
Speaker 1: a mom, I'm a mom. The child looks at you
26:39
Speaker 1: as you know, queen of the universe. My son thinks
26:42
Speaker 1: I can make it rain. And so this mother had
26:46
Speaker 1: her daughter on a certain level, believing that her mother
26:51
Speaker 1: called all the strings in life, that her mother controlled everything. Moreover,
26:56
Speaker 1: her mother had demonstrated to her that the way you
27:00
Speaker 1: get control is by physical mutilation, by bodily control. On
27:06
Speaker 1: a very primal level, her mother had warped her daughter
27:10
Speaker 1: to believe that this was the only way out. And UM,
27:14
Speaker 1: I believe what happened here is a form of what
27:17
Speaker 1: we call in psychology acting out. This was a form
27:20
Speaker 1: of acting out of essentially doing to her mother what
27:24
Speaker 1: her mother had done to her because that was the
27:27
Speaker 1: only way out of the situation she could see. So Nancy,
27:30
Speaker 1: I agree with you. This little girl, Gypsy Rose Blanchard,
27:35
Speaker 1: was raised cubtainly by her mother. When Gypsy was just
27:39
Speaker 1: three months old. Three months that's when it started. The
27:43
Speaker 1: mom tells doctors she wasn't breathing properly. She was diagnosed
27:46
Speaker 1: with sleep apnea and given breathing apparatus. Then the mom
27:52
Speaker 1: says something else was wrong. By the time she was seven,
27:56
Speaker 1: the mom had met with the family and told them
27:58
Speaker 1: the bad news that little Gypsy had a chromosoal disorder
28:04
Speaker 1: and she would be limited to using a wheelchair. That
28:08
Speaker 1: that was shortly after. The health troubles go on and
28:12
Speaker 1: on with no end. A feeding tube is put in
28:16
Speaker 1: when her weight was too low. When she is diagnosed
28:18
Speaker 1: with epilepsy, which is not true, doctors prescribed the little
28:22
Speaker 1: girl a drug called Tegretall that made her teeth crumble
28:28
Speaker 1: inside of her mouth. She had no teeth because of
28:32
Speaker 1: her mother putting her on this medication. Nobody thought she
28:35
Speaker 1: would ever make it to adulthood. Then deed would fight.
28:40
Speaker 1: The mother would fight with the family about the little
28:44
Speaker 1: girl's healthcare. Everybody found out. The mom opens up credit
28:48
Speaker 1: cards and the dad's name, so she leaves the family
28:51
Speaker 1: home in the middle of the night, not telling anybody
28:55
Speaker 1: where she went. They moved from Louisiana to Missouri and
29:00
Speaker 1: then claimed Hurricane Katrina ruined all of the medical documents.
29:04
Speaker 1: They pop back up in Springfield and friends never questioned
29:11
Speaker 1: the little girl's illness. They would see the mom and
29:16
Speaker 1: daughter holding hands and smiling. They would the mom would claim, quote,
29:22
Speaker 1: Jesus is on our side. I do not know how
29:26
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan defendant's always managed to bring drag Jesus
29:30
Speaker 1: into everything. Yeah, they seem to do. They kind of
29:35
Speaker 1: pulled Jesus out like like some kind of sword to
29:39
Speaker 1: use to defend themselves with at everything, or or to
29:42
Speaker 1: to seek. They use religion to seek, to seek, you know,
29:47
Speaker 1: sympathy for what they're going at. Fuzzy dice like you know,
29:52
Speaker 1: you know, you rub it and then something magical is
29:55
Speaker 1: going to happen. The mom even appears on local TV
30:00
Speaker 1: talking about how grateful she is to the hospital. It
30:04
Speaker 1: was all a lie gypsy being crowned queen for a
30:09
Speaker 1: day during the Mardi Gras parade because everybody assumes she
30:12
Speaker 1: was about to die, free trips to Disney World. It
30:17
Speaker 1: just goes on and on and on, claiming her daughter
30:21
Speaker 1: was developmentally challenged. Backstage passes to Miranda Lambert concerts, where
30:29
Speaker 1: the mom orchestrates a photo between the star and the
30:32
Speaker 1: little girl, and Lambert ends up sending this is Miranda Lambert,
30:39
Speaker 1: the country singing star, sending the d D the mom
30:43
Speaker 1: checks totaling six thousand dollars to help her with medical expenses.
30:50
Speaker 1: It was a long, hard, painful life. The little girl
30:56
Speaker 1: would escape by watching one Disney film after the next,
31:01
Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast Tangled, just losing herself in the
31:06
Speaker 1: world of Disney, you know, and everything is bad for us.
31:11
Speaker 1: Always watch Aristocrats with the Children or A hundred one
31:15
Speaker 1: Dalmatians and Mary Poppins. Wait, I can't imagine what this
31:23
Speaker 1: girl went through. You're actually a prisoner now. How do
31:29
Speaker 1: the two compare? In some ways? The insane? But now
31:33
Speaker 1: I'm so much more freer. The prison that I was
31:36
Speaker 1: living in before my mom, It's like I couldn't walk,
31:40
Speaker 1: I couldn't eat, I couldn't have friends over here. I
31:46
Speaker 1: feel like I'm freer in prison than with my living
31:48
Speaker 1: with my mom, because now I would just live like
31:52
Speaker 1: a normal woman. Prison isn't normal, No, not for most,
31:59
Speaker 1: but from That's from ABC's and the rest of the
32:05
Speaker 1: story unfalls in a court of law, we are watching
32:09
Speaker 1: the case. We are watching the case of the boyfriend
32:15
Speaker 1: now charged with murder. As this girl who endured so
32:19
Speaker 1: much sits behind bars. Let me switch gears very quickly.
32:24
Speaker 1: I'm thinking back to my days as a prosecutor, when
32:27
Speaker 1: I would wake up at five thirty in the morning,
32:30
Speaker 1: race to court, start a trial at eight o'clock, and
32:33
Speaker 1: keep going strong till midnight looking for witnesses for the
32:36
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32:42
Speaker 1: am exhausted, working, taking care of the twins, cooking dinner,
32:48
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35:06
Speaker 1: we're switching back and heading across the country. Her roommate
35:10
Speaker 1: called the police when she realized that hey waiting roommate
35:16
Speaker 1: in a while. Courtney's friends and family finally letting out
35:19
Speaker 1: a sigh of relief after receiving good news and her
35:21
Speaker 1: state of confusion. I think she kind of lost track
35:23
Speaker 1: of time and her awareness, and I don't I don't
35:27
Speaker 1: think that she was aware that she was being looked
35:30
Speaker 1: at as a missing person. So that makes it very
35:32
Speaker 1: hard for us to find somebody when they don't actually
35:35
Speaker 1: know that they were actually missing. She's young, she's beautiful,
35:39
Speaker 1: she is accomplished, she has a great career in front
35:42
Speaker 1: of her. I'm talking about a twenty nine year old
35:46
Speaker 1: Courtney Rowland, a sports journalist who goes missing. Joining me
35:53
Speaker 1: right now, Alexis terres Chuck, investigative reporter with Radar online
35:56
Speaker 1: dot Com. Let's start at the beginning, because we all
36:00
Speaker 1: know this woman was found under a bridge, claiming that
36:06
Speaker 1: after thousands and thousands of dollars have been spent trying
36:09
Speaker 1: to find her. She was quote confused. All right, alexas torrest,
36:15
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Tell me about how Courtney
36:18
Speaker 1: Rowland goes missing. So Courtney was on Saturday, was had
36:26
Speaker 1: been at a work event. She's a reporter. She's a
36:27
Speaker 1: sports reporter. Had been at a practice doing her job.
36:33
Speaker 1: Goes home and then your friends chat with her over
36:37
Speaker 1: and I, you know, just texting back and forth with
36:39
Speaker 1: her friends. She goes out to a Walgreens at about midnight,
36:43
Speaker 1: UM and is that texting her friends saying I think
36:47
Speaker 1: I'm being followed. She says, I'm there's a person in
36:50
Speaker 1: a blue truck. They're following me. And then she says
36:54
Speaker 1: that she drives around her block. When she gets home,
36:56
Speaker 1: she drives, pulls into her driveway and the truck pulls
36:59
Speaker 1: up to her. She gets out, they go away, but
37:02
Speaker 1: she was really scared, and so this really frightens her friends.
37:06
Speaker 1: And then that happens about twelve thirty Sunday morning, late
37:10
Speaker 1: Saturday night. Nobody hears from her again, and everybody gets
37:14
Speaker 1: panicked because they said that they were worried this person
37:18
Speaker 1: the blue truck had done something to her and her
37:20
Speaker 1: she was supposed to meet her friend the next day
37:23
Speaker 1: and never shows up, so everybody started panicking. So she
37:27
Speaker 1: tells people that a guy is following her. Let me
37:31
Speaker 1: understand this. When did that happen? Saturday night to Sunday morning?
37:36
Speaker 1: Like around midnight Saturday night early Sunday morning. So this
37:40
Speaker 1: is what we know. She has reported missing on a
37:43
Speaker 1: Saturday after covering a Texas Team elite football camp in
37:47
Speaker 1: West Houston. Then she what calls and texts out that
37:52
Speaker 1: a strange man is following her. After that, alexis, yes,
37:58
Speaker 1: she does. She says that there's a truck, a man
38:00
Speaker 1: in a blue truck that is following her, and that
38:03
Speaker 1: seemed very suspicious, and that he was following her car
38:05
Speaker 1: she drove. She looped around the block at her house
38:08
Speaker 1: because she didn't want to pull right in, and then
38:10
Speaker 1: she pulled in and this is all that she She's
38:12
Speaker 1: telling her friend this overtext, So she's texting, and then
38:16
Speaker 1: what happens to the mystery man that she says is
38:18
Speaker 1: chasing her, we don't know, and we don't hear from
38:22
Speaker 1: her again. That's it. That's the last communication that we
38:25
Speaker 1: have with her. So that's really scary. What if anything
38:28
Speaker 1: to police do. They spoke to her parents and her friends,
38:33
Speaker 1: and they she was reported as missing, so they started
38:36
Speaker 1: actually searching for her. And it was immediate. It wasn't
38:40
Speaker 1: because she she's twenty nine years old, and they didn't
38:43
Speaker 1: wait twenty four hours or forty hours to who she called.
38:45
Speaker 1: They immediately started searching for her and searching for her
38:48
Speaker 1: car and her cell phone and trying to figure out
38:51
Speaker 1: where she was. Well, what we know right now is,
38:55
Speaker 1: according to police quote, there's no evidence to indicate this
39:00
Speaker 1: sports reporter was assaulted. A more thorough investigation may reveal
39:05
Speaker 1: something different, according to officer Martin and Teeny, but at
39:09
Speaker 1: this time, we don't think anything criminal occurred to her.
39:13
Speaker 1: When you say police were out searching for her along
39:16
Speaker 1: with family and friends, what do you mean by that.
39:19
Speaker 1: I mean apparently they wasted no time and started looking
39:22
Speaker 1: for her. They did. They went to her house immediately,
39:25
Speaker 1: they kind of traced her tracks. They went to the Walgreens,
39:29
Speaker 1: they eat. Everybody was with the internet today, everybody was
39:32
Speaker 1: searching for her. Even the governor of Texas tweeted out,
39:35
Speaker 1: please try to help find Courtney. If anybody knows where
39:37
Speaker 1: she is, so people started looking for her. Explained to
39:40
Speaker 1: me how she was ultimately found. So on Monday morning,
39:45
Speaker 1: she had been spotted at a Chick fil A about
39:48
Speaker 1: eight o'clock in the morning, and somebody what was she
39:51
Speaker 1: doing in a Chick Fili? Was she wandering aimlessly in
39:54
Speaker 1: the parking lot or was she inside? And in some
39:56
Speaker 1: minis she was inside the Chick fil A, So somebody
40:02
Speaker 1: spotted her. They called the police. I find out she's
40:05
Speaker 1: in there having a Chick fil A breakfast. My head
40:07
Speaker 1: is going to blow off because if she's so dazed
40:10
Speaker 1: and disoriented that she has no idea while police are
40:15
Speaker 1: out all hours of the day or night searching for her,
40:19
Speaker 1: while other real crimes are being committed, and she's kicked
40:23
Speaker 1: back having some nuggets. Uh, go ahead. Well, then within
40:30
Speaker 1: the within the next thirty minutes, another person reports her.
40:34
Speaker 1: They see her under an overpass of the highway, and
40:38
Speaker 1: so they call police to police had been kind of
40:40
Speaker 1: in that area. It was near the area where her
40:42
Speaker 1: car had been found a few hours earlier, and they
40:45
Speaker 1: found her under an overpass. She did not have her
40:48
Speaker 1: phone with her, her purse, anything, nothing, and why would
40:52
Speaker 1: she be under an overpass? Her dad has said that
40:57
Speaker 1: she was confused and that perhaps her medication was off
41:02
Speaker 1: medication what kind of medication. All he said is that
41:05
Speaker 1: there there may have been a problem with her medication
41:09
Speaker 1: and her parents. Her mom actually got a text message
41:11
Speaker 1: from her well, from her phone on Sunday and it
41:15
Speaker 1: said something like to uh the mom of Courtney, I
41:20
Speaker 1: am buying an iPad. And it seems so suspicious that
41:24
Speaker 1: it would say to the mom of Courtney from Courtney's phone.
41:27
Speaker 1: They were very worried that somebody had her. Does anybody
41:30
Speaker 1: remember the name Jennifer will Banks, the so called real
41:35
Speaker 1: life runaway bride. This is a yo, yeah yeah yeah,
41:40
Speaker 1: and alexis you and I covered it together. Jennifer will
41:44
Speaker 1: Banks is uh, pretty young woman, long brunette hair, big
41:49
Speaker 1: brown eyes who goes missing um right before her wedding.
41:55
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was the weekend of the
41:58
Speaker 1: wedding and there was some cry crazy wedding plans like
42:03
Speaker 1: this is off the top of my head, I may
42:04
Speaker 1: have the number wrong, like fifteen bridesmaids and fifteen roomsmen
42:08
Speaker 1: and hundreds and hundreds of people invited and blah blah.
42:13
Speaker 1: I mean the whole kit in camboodle. I mean, Alexis,
42:15
Speaker 1: you know that when I got married And I'm not
42:17
Speaker 1: saying this is perfect. We decided on a Tuesday and
42:21
Speaker 1: we got married on Saturday. Bam okay, just like that,
42:25
Speaker 1: and it was done. But the whole drama of the
42:31
Speaker 1: big wedding, and then that weekend she goes quote jogging,
42:38
Speaker 1: and she's never seen again. Well, fast forward, she shows
42:44
Speaker 1: up in Albuquerque, New Mexico, claiming that she has been
42:48
Speaker 1: kidnapped and sexually assaulted. None of that happened. She took
42:52
Speaker 1: a greyhound and escaped her wedding. She cost the government
42:58
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of dollars through her wild story is
43:03
Speaker 1: basically a case of cold feet. Now in this case,
43:08
Speaker 1: what do we know? What was said when she was
43:10
Speaker 1: taken to Was she taken to the hospital, Alexis, she was.
43:15
Speaker 1: The police said she appeared quote unharmed, but they still
43:18
Speaker 1: transported her to the hospital. What is this business about
43:22
Speaker 1: her being quote confused? That is what her dad has
43:26
Speaker 1: said that perhaps, you know, her medicine may have made
43:29
Speaker 1: her confused. And I think the police have said that
43:31
Speaker 1: when they found her, she didn't even realize or she
43:34
Speaker 1: told them that she didn't know that people thought she
43:37
Speaker 1: was missing, but you know, she is a twenty nine
43:40
Speaker 1: year old professional who has had you know, worked and
43:42
Speaker 1: had a job in responsibilities, and yet on a Monday morning,
43:46
Speaker 1: she's standing under an overpass in the middle of Houston. Okay,
43:49
Speaker 1: well that seems totally out of character, and that would
43:52
Speaker 1: go to her seriously having some type of um, a
43:57
Speaker 1: mental break or some confusion brought on medication. Of course,
44:01
Speaker 1: you could have said the same thing about Jennifer Wilbanks.
44:04
Speaker 1: Do you remember when that book and she also had
44:05
Speaker 1: been texting her friends saying there's a guy following me
44:08
Speaker 1: and then that's it. Nothing else. So it really, everybody
44:11
Speaker 1: sounds like a dramatic scenario written by like a fifth
44:14
Speaker 1: grade girl writing a novel Joseph's Got Morgan. Do you
44:17
Speaker 1: remember when Jennifer Wilbanks went missing? Oh yeah, yeah, I
44:22
Speaker 1: have vivid memories of it. It was it was Walder
44:25
Speaker 1: Wall coverage. You know, everybody was just terrified that this,
44:29
Speaker 1: uh something some harm had befallen uh this person and
44:35
Speaker 1: uh and you're right, at the end of the day,
44:38
Speaker 1: you know, I was I think I was still actively
44:40
Speaker 1: working um with a lot of law enforcement people then
44:44
Speaker 1: and and I thought about the cost that was put
44:47
Speaker 1: forward in that particular case, and the man hours and
44:50
Speaker 1: and the time away from actually, as we've talked about before, Nancy,
44:54
Speaker 1: working cases that are out there where people are actually
44:58
Speaker 1: UHC being victimized and traumatized and everything else, and you
45:01
Speaker 1: get pulled away for some kind of nonsense like that.
45:05
Speaker 1: This girl, Courtney Rowland, was found near a gallery of
45:08
Speaker 1: shopping mall where she had last been seen on Sunday.
45:11
Speaker 1: Her jeep I was found along with her purse. What
45:16
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out is why it all happened
45:20
Speaker 1: to Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologists joining us from New York,
45:24
Speaker 1: founder of Anxiety tools dot Com, help me out. I mean,
45:29
Speaker 1: I would chalk it all up to just as she's saying,
45:32
Speaker 1: some kind of medication foul up, but then you've got
45:35
Speaker 1: the drama of an uncorroborated mystery man following her that
45:40
Speaker 1: that's kicked off the whole disappearance. Well, Nancy, to be fair,
45:46
Speaker 1: I do think it's actually plausible that if you were
45:49
Speaker 1: having a poor reaction to a medication, or even maybe
45:52
Speaker 1: going off of a medication that you're supposed to be on,
45:56
Speaker 1: it would not be unusual to sometimes have some paranoid thinking.
46:02
Speaker 1: UM so that you you can have a delusion or
46:05
Speaker 1: you can have a paranoia. Even with me, when I
46:08
Speaker 1: haven't been on medication once in a while, I've you know,
46:11
Speaker 1: mistakenly thought somebody was following me. UM. So I don't
46:15
Speaker 1: think it's entirely implausible that she might have actually genuinely
46:19
Speaker 1: believed she was being followed, and that was part of
46:22
Speaker 1: the early sign of her UM. You know, whatever type
46:25
Speaker 1: of break she may have had. Well, if it's plausible
46:29
Speaker 1: to you, you're the healthcare professional, then I accept that. Also,
46:34
Speaker 1: police did say that she acted extremely confused when they
46:39
Speaker 1: found her. UM. But then you've got the other evidence
46:42
Speaker 1: of the mystery man that kicked off the disappearance UM
46:46
Speaker 1: hiding the car the jeep under an overpass. I mean
46:51
Speaker 1: I would think if I were disoriented, I would just
46:55
Speaker 1: leave the car where it was, I mean the effort
46:57
Speaker 1: of driving it. No, No, she was the car was
47:01
Speaker 1: at the mall. Okay, so the car was at the mall.
47:03
Speaker 1: Then where does the overpass come in? She was wandering around,
47:08
Speaker 1: She wandered away from them all, wandered over the Chick
47:10
Speaker 1: fil A, and then was found under the overpass. That
47:13
Speaker 1: seems more believable to me. That seems much more believable
47:17
Speaker 1: to me, because if she leaves her car her jeep
47:22
Speaker 1: at the mall and starts wandering around, who in their
47:26
Speaker 1: right mind will go under an overpass to the interstate.
47:32
Speaker 1: To me, that does sound like she was confused and disoriented.
47:36
Speaker 1: I mean, let's think that through. Alexis a woman alone,
47:41
Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old kind of a local celebrity,
47:45
Speaker 1: wandering around in the same clothes for all that time,
47:48
Speaker 1: and they find her under an overpass. That does sound
47:52
Speaker 1: like she was way out of it and in people
47:54
Speaker 1: hit said I just under. Somebody said they spotted her
47:57
Speaker 1: at the Chick fil A. I feel like if I
48:00
Speaker 1: knew somebody was missing, I would maybe go up to
48:02
Speaker 1: them and say, hey, are you okay? After you know,
48:04
Speaker 1: so many kidnap victims say that they were just put
48:07
Speaker 1: out in public and they were too scared to talk
48:10
Speaker 1: um J. C. Dugard and things like that. I would
48:12
Speaker 1: maybe go up to somebody. But the people responsibly called
48:15
Speaker 1: the police. I guess she was maybe wandering around so
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Speaker 1: strangely that they were afraid to approach her. But they
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Speaker 1: did find her aimlessly wandering around, and she had been
48:25
Speaker 1: spotted at that mall about five forty on Sunday. They
48:28
Speaker 1: didn't find her until about nine o'clock on Monday. That's
48:30
Speaker 1: a long time for nobody to have seen her. We
48:34
Speaker 1: are on it and trying to find out the truth
48:36
Speaker 1: of what happened. Either this young reporter with really the
48:39
Speaker 1: world at her fate. She's beautiful, she's educated, she's healthy
48:45
Speaker 1: to end up disoriented under an overpass. Was it part
48:48
Speaker 1: of some drama that she created for some unknown reason,
48:52
Speaker 1: or is it for real? Like her dad is saying,
48:55
Speaker 1: there are really arguments to both sides. Let's see where
49:00
Speaker 1: it goes. Nancy Grace's crime story, signing off Goodbye friend,