Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / The power of word of mouth marketing - with Kevin Dennis

Transcript

The power of word of mouth marketing - with Kevin Dennis · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  Kevin: When you're there on the day of, like, I can't tell you how many
• 0:03
  times I've helped move chairs for the caterer or I've, you know, noticed that
• 0:07
  the photographer was struggling and, you know, like helping them move, you
• 0:11
  know, their, their camera bags or just, you know, helping when you can see.
• 0:17
  It's needed.
• 0:17
  Does that make sense?
• 0:18
  And not look at it as, Oh, not my problem.
• 0:21
  You know, cause if I'm standing around and I don't have anything to
• 0:23
  do, why not help someone else that looks like they might need help?
• 0:26
  I think that goes a long way.
• 0:30
  Becca: I'm Becca Pountney, wedding business, marketing
• 0:32
  expert, speaker, and blogger.
• 0:33
  And you're listening to the wedding pros who are ready to grow podcast.
• 0:37
  I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies and real life
• 0:41
  examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
• 0:44
  If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
• 0:48
  and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
• 0:51
  love, then you're in the right place.
• 0:53
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 0:56
  Today, I'm chatting with Kevin Dennis, owner of Fantasy Sound Event
• 1:00
  Services and editor of Wedding IQ.
• 1:02
  With over 35 years in the wedding industry, he has built a huge
• 1:06
  amount of experience and lots of connections along the way.
• 1:09
  In 2010, Kevin even founded the Tri Valley Wedding Pros to bring
• 1:12
  the industry together in his local area, and he's been involved in
• 1:15
  many industry associations too.
• 1:18
  If you haven't guessed it yet, Kevin is big on building relationships,
• 1:21
  and as you will know, this is one of my favorite topics too.
• 1:24
  So I'm excited to dive into this conversation.
• 1:27
  Kevin, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:29
  Kevin: Thank you.
• 1:30
  I'm happy to be here.
• 1:31
  Becca: I am very happy to have you here.
• 1:34
  And for the sake of the listener, we have been having all sorts of tech problems,
• 1:38
  but we are here and we are rolling through it, and I find it so funny that
• 1:42
  we're having tech problems when your business has the word sound in the title.
• 1:46
  Kevin: I know, I know.
• 1:48
  It happens.
• 1:49
  It happens to the best of us.
• 1:51
  Becca: Absolutely.
• 1:52
  We like to keep it real around here.
• 1:54
  Nothing is ever perfect, so we keep it, we keep it real.
• 1:57
  Now, Kevin, it's great to have you.
• 1:59
  As I said in the introduction, you've been in the industry a mere 35 years, which is
• 2:03
  impossible when you're only 36 years old.
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  But I want you . Oh, I appreciate that.
• 2:08
  , I want you to take me back to, you're my new favorite person.
• 2:11
  Excellent.
• 2:11
  I like that.
• 2:12
  I want you to take me back to the start.
• 2:14
  Take me back to where this foray into this wonderful world of weddings started from.
• 2:20
  Kevin: So it all started for me in high school, believe it or not, I was
• 2:23
  a nerd in high school and my neighbor started a DJ company like DJing the
• 2:28
  local like high school events and just.
• 2:30
  different things.
• 2:31
  And so he needed a roadie.
• 2:33
  So I offered to help him, you know, cause, and I would drive, set up all his stuff.
• 2:38
  And then I was like, Hey, I go, I want to start like DJing on my own.
• 2:43
  And he's like, Oh no, you're not good enough.
• 2:44
  And I was like, really?
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  Cause I'm good enough to load the truck and good enough to do all the dirty work.
• 2:49
  So I said, you know what?
• 2:51
  I said, I'm going to do this on my own.
• 2:54
  So I sold my, my prize 73 Chevy Camaro.
• 2:58
  And bought speakers and turntables.
• 3:00
  That's how long ago it was and started buying records and all that kind of
• 3:04
  stuff and started my own DJ service.
• 3:07
  And then before, you know, we, you know, grew, grew and grew, you know,
• 3:12
  so it was kind of, I started in 89.
• 3:14
  So it was, this was like a few years after helping him.
• 3:17
  So in 1989, when most people in the wedding industry were born, that's
• 3:21
  what I find now I started my company.
• 3:24
  And so we started out just TJ and like, you know, just school
• 3:26
  dances and all that kind of stuff.
• 3:28
  And while I was going through college, I, you know, what's doing just.
• 3:31
  Kind of more fun stuff.
• 3:33
  And then in 1995, I was like, you know what?
• 3:35
  I can actually make a living out of this.
• 3:37
  And I decided not to, you know, follow my, my college dreams and
• 3:42
  follow my, my business dreams.
• 3:43
  And here I am today.
• 3:45
  I'm still doing it, supporting my family.
• 3:47
  You know, we, we grew over the years.
• 3:49
  The kind of nice thing is I'm 45 minutes east of San
• 3:52
  Francisco in the United States.
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  And so we are, even though we're like really close to San Francisco, I don't
• 3:59
  want to work in San Francisco cause it's kind of a pain working in that city.
• 4:03
  And it's kind of, I'll be honest with you, all you UK people find
• 4:06
  a different U S city to visit.
• 4:08
  Cause San Francisco is a dump right now.
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  I'll be brutally honest with you.
• 4:11
  You go to New York or Chicago or LA.
• 4:14
  I would recommend all those.
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  And but anyway, so we, you know, just working in the city is rough, you know,
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  even from, you know, like without traffic, I'm about, you know, like 45 minutes
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  away, but You know, usually it takes about anywhere from two hours to get there.
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  And then once you're in the city, it takes another like 20 to, you know, 30, 45
• 4:35
  minutes to get to where your location, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's a truck.
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  It's a, it's a lot of work to get there.
• 4:40
  So, you know, so we out in our little neck of the woods, we have a
• 4:44
  little wine country and we're kind of like you know, just below about
• 4:47
  an hour and 15 minutes below Napa.
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  And so right now in my, in Livermore, California we have
• 4:52
  a little over 60 wineries.
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  And so, you know, and where do couples like to get married?
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  Wineries and golf courses and, you know, hotels and all that kind of stuff.
• 4:59
  So we're really benefiting right now in our little, little market out here.
• 5:03
  And it's, it's, it's a lot of fun out here.
• 5:05
  Becca: That's awesome.
• 5:05
  And I can't believe that right back at the start of your journey, the person
• 5:09
  said to you that you weren't good enough.
• 5:10
  Imagine if you listened to that and not gone ahead and did it.
• 5:14
  I know.
• 5:14
  How different your life would have been.
• 5:16
  Kevin: I know, right?
• 5:16
  Well, 100%.
• 5:17
  It would have been night and day because I, you know, shortly after I
• 5:21
  stopped working you kind of gave up.
• 5:23
  I was like, you know what?
• 5:24
  I went and worked for a couple other little DJ companies doing
• 5:28
  school events and I, in a short amount of time became their most
• 5:32
  requested DJ at the school events.
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  And I was like, you know what?
• 5:35
  I know what I'm doing.
• 5:36
  I paid attention enough.
• 5:39
  Becca: Exactly.
• 5:39
  And that's why we shouldn't always listen to everyone's advice around us because
• 5:42
  they're not always right in what they say.
• 5:45
  So do you remember?
• 5:46
  Or truthful.
• 5:47
  Well, or truthful.
• 5:48
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:49
  Do you remember your first wedding booking?
• 5:51
  Because I love taking people back to the beginning because when I get
• 5:54
  new clients, quite often they say to me, I think getting my first booking
• 5:57
  is going to be the hardest one.
• 5:58
  Do you remember taking your first wedding booking way back in the day?
• 6:02
  Kevin: I, yeah, I've been doing this too long.
• 6:04
  Unfortunately, I don't remember.
• 6:05
  I'm lucky.
• 6:05
  I remember the couple's name from last weekend.
• 6:07
  But I do, I remember the time like back in the day, you know, like it
• 6:11
  was a whole different time because we, you know, like I said, I was
• 6:14
  doing the weddings on vinyl, you know?
• 6:17
  So like, I, I think in, in my profession, you know, like, That
• 6:23
  is night and day difference.
• 6:24
  Cause now it's like I can get any song off of, you know, iTunes
• 6:29
  or wherever and download it.
• 6:31
  And I have it on my DJ software and I'm ready to go.
• 6:33
  And I can usually do that in a matter of about 30 to 45 seconds.
• 6:37
  You know, like compared to when You would have to go to multiple, multiple,
• 6:41
  multiple, multiple record stores.
• 6:43
  Like I would, I, every Thursday, what is my, my, my record buying day.
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  And I would head out to San Jose, which is another part of the Bay area.
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  And then I would start at a couple of record stores there.
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  And then I would drive to San Francisco and hit about three
• 6:56
  or four record stores there.
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  And then that was kind of like my day.
• 7:00
  And if I really needed it, I would hit Berkeley on the way home.
• 7:03
  And that was kind of, You tried it.
• 7:05
  Berkeley's kind of weird.
• 7:06
  So you know, we always try to stay out of Berkeley, but they had a couple of
• 7:10
  good, decent record stores, but you know, and that's what you would go find all
• 7:13
  your music for the weekend and any like new hot song got released on Thursday.
• 7:17
  And that was kind of the, you know, and this one, there was a really good
• 7:21
  record store and I would hit it up every Thursday at noon because they
• 7:25
  would get their shipment at 10 o'clock every morning, every Thursday morning.
• 7:29
  So I wanted to be kind of the first to get some of the hot
• 7:31
  new songs, but now it's like.
• 7:33
  You know, download, you got it.
• 7:35
  You know, there's no more of that journey involved.
• 7:37
  I was like, that's why I call it DJ for dummies nowadays.
• 7:40
  Becca: Yeah.
• 7:40
  Well now it's so, so different, but over those 35 years, you've seen a huge amount
• 7:44
  of evolution in the industry, I'm sure.
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  And at the same time, I'm sure there's a lot of things that have stayed the same.
• 7:50
  What do you think have been some of your biggest keys to success in your business?
• 7:54
  Kevin: For me, it's been relationships.
• 7:56
  I'm going to be honest with you.
• 7:57
  I was fortunate to meet a caterer.
• 8:00
  Through like like a business networking type of a group, we would get together
• 8:05
  every Wednesday morning at 7 a.
• 8:07
  m.
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  And so I was 22 years old back then and I, 7 a.
• 8:12
  m.
• 8:12
  was not part of my wheelhouse.
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  So I would show up literally with like jeans and a sweatshirt and, you know, and
• 8:18
  you had to like, I referred the tire guy and I, you know, it was about like what,
• 8:22
  you know, writing or business referrals, but, you know, and there was a small
• 8:26
  amount of us that were in there that were in the, Wedding and event industry, but
• 8:30
  there, you know, there was an attorney and an insurance agent and you name it.
• 8:34
  There was a bunch of business people in there.
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  And after being part of that group for about maybe six months, the caterer that
• 8:41
  I was kept, kept trying to get business with and wasn't, she's like, all right.
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  And she called me record spinner.
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  She goes, okay, record spinner.
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  You need to like, show up.
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  Like you want to run a business.
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  show up like you look like you want to have a business and not
• 8:54
  like you just got out of bed.
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  And she wasn't lying.
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  Like literally I figured out this thing, it was seven o'clock in the
• 8:59
  morning, I'd wake up at six 40 and I would literally roll out of bed, brush
• 9:04
  my teeth, you know, throw a hat on and, and, and rolled to this thing.
• 9:07
  And I thought I was fine, but obviously it was not.
• 9:09
  So the very next day.
• 9:10
  meeting after she said that I showed up in a shirt and tie, took a shower,
• 9:14
  got up earlier, and I continued to go.
• 9:17
  And it took me, she goes, you know, it took me almost at about
• 9:19
  another three to four months until she gave me a piece of business,
• 9:22
  but I kept persevering through it.
• 9:24
  And I was like, you know, cause I really felt like she was going to do something.
• 9:27
  And meanwhile, it's kind of creepy, but her, her two venues probably are
• 9:32
  about 65 percent of my revenue today.
• 9:35
  You know, and stuff.
• 9:36
  So way back in the 1992, you know, like if I, you know, like how different,
• 9:41
  you know, we were talking about how different my life would have been if I
• 9:43
  didn't listen to that guy, you know, I keep, I wonder if I would still be doing
• 9:48
  this today if I didn't continue to, you know, fight to get her piece of business.
• 9:52
  Becca: Wow.
• 9:52
  Yeah, that's an incredible story.
• 9:53
  And I love that you're still doing so much work with her today.
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  Quite often when I talk about networking, because as I said in the
• 9:59
  intro, I absolutely love it myself.
• 10:01
  And I think it's really important and foundational.
• 10:03
  I always say you never know where that next relationship's
• 10:05
  going to lead to, right?
• 10:06
  And you couldn't have envisaged 35 years ago that that would still be
• 10:10
  bringing you so much business today.
• 10:12
  And just that small change in that perseverance.
• 10:16
  So going on from that, going on from that first kind of networking meeting,
• 10:19
  where else have you sought to build relationships in your wedding business?
• 10:23
  Kevin: So I'm a big believer in belonging to some type of association
• 10:28
  or a group that you can belong to.
• 10:31
  You know, like I was involved with WIPA, which is huge in the United States.
• 10:35
  You know, I was the their international president when we were trying to
• 10:38
  get, you know, chapters across the country or across the world.
• 10:42
  I mean, you know, but it was, you know, so that gave me notoriety,
• 10:45
  you know, got me on podcasts like yours here today that kind of stuff.
• 10:49
  But I really think it's, it's belonging on the local level because I think at one
• 10:53
  point, like I learned, like I was very involved in my local chamber of commerce.
• 10:57
  I was very involved locally and then I started grow, grow, grow, and I
• 11:02
  started going like more across the country and I realized, you know
• 11:06
  what, I'm missing the local stuff.
• 11:07
  And so when I, when my time was done on the board, I was like, I got back
• 11:12
  to the, you know, got back to my roots.
• 11:14
  Got, You know, back involved in the local chapters of the event associations
• 11:19
  out here got back involved in like the local chamber of commerce, you know, even
• 11:24
  though like you don't know there, you know, it's harder to get, I think, event
• 11:28
  business out of those type of groups, but I think it's more about being visible.
• 11:32
  And, you know, and, and, and, you know, it takes a long time to get that,
• 11:36
  you know, connection, so to speak.
• 11:38
  But then once you do, it's like, oh, hey, I have a friend that I know
• 11:41
  that I can refer to and vice versa.
• 11:44
  And it just takes time.
• 11:45
  So it's kind of, I started out locally, went and I got, you know,
• 11:49
  kind of big for my britches there.
• 11:51
  And then I was like, you know, after it's done, I was like, you know what,
• 11:53
  it's time, you know, because people are like, they would make my staff would
• 11:56
  go to the local events and they're like, Oh, is Kevin too good for us?
• 11:59
  Is Kevin does, you know, and those kind of comments would come back.
• 12:02
  And I was like, I'm not too good for you guys, you know, like, and so I was
• 12:05
  like, all right, I'll get back involved locally because I realized that's,
• 12:08
  you know, you need to be visible.
• 12:10
  And I think that's half of it.
• 12:11
  It's like you can't.
• 12:12
  Just go to an event once, you know, it takes multiple times.
• 12:17
  I'm a big believer.
• 12:18
  It takes two to three years to build, to build relations, you know, like, so if
• 12:21
  you join an association, you gotta know, you gotta be in it for the long haul.
• 12:25
  You can't, you know, you can't join a group or an association and expect to
• 12:29
  get business on your first meeting.
• 12:32
  You know, or it might take you, you know, some people it'll happen in a year,
• 12:38
  but I really feel it's the two to three year you're in it for the long haul.
• 12:41
  And I think too, it's like, get involved in a committee, get involved
• 12:45
  in, you know, the board of directors.
• 12:46
  And then, you know, you start building that notoriety, your
• 12:49
  name has been said multiple times.
• 12:52
  You know, you're mentioned at the meetings as, you know, as one of the
• 12:55
  leaders of the group, you know, it, it, it, but it, it's time, it takes time.
• 13:00
  It doesn't happen overnight.
• 13:01
  Becca: Yeah.
• 13:01
  And I think that is a misconception that people think they can just
• 13:03
  turn up to one event and that's it.
• 13:05
  They've done their networking for the year and then everyone knows them,
• 13:08
  but actually, you know, the more you put in, the more you get out.
• 13:12
  Kevin: Yeah, my wife gets mad at me when I use this comment, but I call it
• 13:15
  spray and pray they walk around with their business cards and spray them
• 13:18
  across the room and pray that someone's going to hire him and no one, you know,
• 13:22
  because I can't tell you how many times people walked up to me at like one of
• 13:25
  the networking events and they just hand me a business card and, and like, say
• 13:30
  like maybe two words, you know, a couple sentences to me and then walk away.
• 13:34
  And I'm like, yeah, I don't know anything about them, you know, and, and, and you
• 13:38
  got to realize it's relationships, you know, like I always go, you got to take
• 13:42
  yourself back to dating, you know, it's almost like you're dating again, you know,
• 13:46
  you don't walk, you know, you don't kiss on the first date sometime, you know,
• 13:49
  you know, saying that, you know, it takes time, you know, it, it, it takes time.
• 13:54
  Becca: I totally resonate with you.
• 13:55
  And one of my first podcast episodes, Kevin, I did about wedding
• 13:58
  prose that you don't want to be.
• 14:00
  And one of those characters that I created for that episode was the
• 14:04
  business card thrower, which is exactly the kind of person you're
• 14:07
  describing that just walks in, throws their business cards on the table.
• 14:10
  I was like, anyone want one?
• 14:12
  And everyone's like, no, not really.
• 14:13
  Like, thanks very much.
• 14:15
  Kevin: No.
• 14:16
  No, have a, like a, you know, have a cocktail with me or how, you know, like
• 14:20
  sit next to me at the dinner or, you know, and let, let's talk and get deeper.
• 14:24
  And the other thing too, as I learned is you got to listen to
• 14:28
  people, that's a big thing, you know?
• 14:30
  So, you know, get to know people deeper.
• 14:33
  You got to listen to them and don't dominate, you know, it's
• 14:36
  not, you know, I know how to do that, or I know that person.
• 14:39
  And I, you know, it's just like try to connect with them,
• 14:41
  you know, on a personal level.
• 14:43
  And I think that's where the relationships really.
• 14:45
  You know, because people want to do business with what they like, you know,
• 14:48
  like the, one of the florists I recommend I've literally been, you know, I, he's
• 14:53
  done all my major events in my life, but also, you know, I probably have known him
• 14:58
  since the late nineties, you know, and we've just, you know, and so it's like,
• 15:02
  Oh, you need to, you know, call Carl and the team over there at Delford West and
• 15:05
  they're going to take care of you, you know, and they're, you know, and that's
• 15:08
  the kind of relationships you have.
• 15:10
  Becca: Okay, so let's get practical for a moment because I know there'll be people
• 15:13
  listening that are thinking about going to a local event or a local networking
• 15:17
  thing, but they're nervous and they don't really know how to go about it.
• 15:21
  They're scared.
• 15:21
  They don't want to be the business card thrower and the spray and prayer, but
• 15:25
  they do want to build good relationships.
• 15:26
  So do you have any practical tips for those people if they're going to an
• 15:30
  event about what, how they even get started when they walk in that room?
• 15:34
  Kevin: So I think a little bit, this is going to sound silly.
• 15:37
  So wear an outfit you feel comfortable and you feel good in.
• 15:39
  I think that really goes a long way.
• 15:41
  You know, cause sometimes if you not, you're feeling a little frumpy that day
• 15:45
  or whatever, that's, you're going to feel down, you know, so you got to put
• 15:48
  yourself in the right frame of mind.
• 15:50
  And so I think it's, Different for every person, I'm the type of person when I go
• 15:56
  to networking events, I need a wing man or a woman, I need someone to go with,
• 16:00
  I feel more comfortable walking into the room with someone else, and then like, I
• 16:04
  have a really good friend of mine that she is better by, she loves going by herself,
• 16:09
  and she loves working the room by herself.
• 16:11
  You know, and so I, you know, so everyone is a little different.
• 16:14
  So, and I think a little bit too is sometimes nowadays depending on the
• 16:19
  type of event software registration software they use, you can kind of
• 16:22
  do a little research on who's coming.
• 16:25
  If you can see the guest list, that's another good idea.
• 16:27
  Like study the guest list.
• 16:29
  Okay.
• 16:29
  I really want to meet.
• 16:31
  Susie at the rental company.
• 16:32
  And I want to meet, you know, Betsy over at the wedding planning company.
• 16:37
  I've been trying to make those connections.
• 16:38
  So then, you know, get to know a little bit about the people you want
• 16:42
  to connect with before you even go.
• 16:43
  So look at their Instagram or looking on any of that kind of stuff.
• 16:46
  So if you can make a comment to them and say, Hey, I saw on your Instagram,
• 16:50
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:52
  You know, about that last wedding you did, I really liked how you did this.
• 16:55
  I, you know, then, then, It kind of hooks them a little, you know, they'll be like,
• 16:59
  Oh, they know a little bit about me there.
• 17:01
  You know, it kind of opens the door.
• 17:04
  I think it's that.
• 17:06
  And that's all it is.
• 17:06
  It doesn't mean you can come in the house.
• 17:08
  It just opens the door at that point, you know?
• 17:10
  So, so that's a good one.
• 17:12
  You know, we talked about spray and pray or what did you call him?
• 17:16
  Business card thrower.
• 17:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:19
  So, so I can't tell you how many times I've been to a networking event and
• 17:23
  someone doesn't have a business card.
• 17:25
  So, and even though we're in this very techie age that we're in, I still think
• 17:31
  that little piece of paper goes a long way and that's still, that's you, I'll be
• 17:35
  honest with you is probably the only, that and envelopes are the only thing because
• 17:39
  very rarely do we mail anything nowadays, but when we do, I wanted it branded and
• 17:43
  I, and I only have business cards now.
• 17:46
  You're like, we don't print.
• 17:47
  I feel sorry for all my print friends, but we don't print.
• 17:50
  You know, we're not in that world anymore, but I think a business card
• 17:54
  goes a long way, you know, I really do.
• 17:57
  And then I, this is a weird pet peeve.
• 17:59
  And I'm going to tell you if, if it's, you know, Betsy, the
• 18:02
  wedding coordinator at gmail.
• 18:04
  com, I don't take you seriously.
• 18:06
  So, so before you go to a networking event, you need to be, you know, Betsy at.
• 18:12
  The wedding coordinator.
• 18:13
  com, you know, you know, kind of like have a, you know, I don't know why,
• 18:16
  because it's just something that's stuck with me over the years is that
• 18:20
  I feel like the people that have at Gmail at Yahoo at whatever, and it's
• 18:25
  not their business name are not in here.
• 18:27
  They're not real, you know, they're not taking their business real, they're
• 18:31
  not setting themselves up for success.
• 18:33
  So I don't know why that is, but that's one thing.
• 18:35
  When someone hands me a business card, that's the first thing I look at.
• 18:38
  Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:39
  I totally agree with you.
• 18:40
  And I think it's important for us to realize that people are making instant
• 18:43
  judgments about us and our business based on how they perceive us at the meeting.
• 18:48
  Exactly how you said from your first meeting, they didn't take you
• 18:51
  seriously because of the fact that you were late and how you address, you
• 18:54
  know, people are going to make those judgments whether we like it or not.
• 18:57
  And therefore we need to make sure we're putting our best foot forward.
• 19:00
  Okay.
• 19:00
  While we're on the subject, then I'd love to know any, Bad experiences.
• 19:04
  I'm, I mean, I've got stories as long as my arm.
• 19:07
  I'm sure you do too, about where I've been at these events and
• 19:10
  people have had an interaction with me that is not good networking.
• 19:13
  Do you have any examples, any stories, obviously don't use any names, but
• 19:16
  anything that comes to mind or any examples of where it goes wrong?
• 19:20
  Kevin: So, you know, alcohol is usually served at these events, but I can't
• 19:23
  tell you how many times I've had to, as a leader of the group, put someone
• 19:29
  in a taxi or an Uber and give them, you know, send them home because
• 19:33
  They've drank a little too much, you know, and I'll be honest with you.
• 19:37
  There are people that you just know automatically are
• 19:40
  going to be that every time.
• 19:42
  And that's not a good look for your business, you know, cause I
• 19:45
  always feel we, there's different times to have those type of
• 19:48
  engagements with us in the industry.
• 19:51
  When you're at a conference and you're all go out together, you know, that's.
• 19:55
  Yeah, yeah, Taiwan on, let's have fun and let's party, but at a networking
• 19:59
  type of an event, that's not the time to Taiwan on and let's party.
• 20:02
  It's not a party time, you know, just, you know, it's just, I
• 20:08
  think that's, that's a big one.
• 20:10
  And the other one is, is don't be.
• 20:14
  Like a lurker, you know, and what I mean is if you see someone there, there's
• 20:19
  someone that used to come to our local NACE group long time ago and they would
• 20:24
  stand, you could just feel them over your shoulder and it was like burning and I'm
• 20:28
  like, and you would go and I, without using that person's name, I'm like, is
• 20:31
  such and such behind me right now, I would say to that per, I don't know why
• 20:36
  I would just, you could just feel them, you know, and I'm like, yes, but it, you
• 20:40
  know, cause I, I really think you need to be open when, when you go to these
• 20:45
  events, like don't close yourself off.
• 20:47
  But I do think there are like, Hey, this happened at the wedding last weekend.
• 20:52
  Let's talk about, you know, like you might be the first time you've seen
• 20:55
  someone since something happened and you need that little moment, you know?
• 20:59
  So if you see that people are closed off.
• 21:01
  Don't go insert in like try to wedge yourself into the group because I
• 21:06
  don't think that goes really well, too There was another networking group.
• 21:09
  I belong to and The gentleman had a nickname of the shrimper and it just
• 21:16
  he would literally peruse the buffet table to the point where everyone
• 21:20
  noticed that, you know, he ate all the shrimp on the buffet or whatever.
• 21:24
  Yeah, I don't even know.
• 21:25
  And so it just, you know, and so it was, it became a joke when you were planning
• 21:29
  an event, Oh, make sure there's enough shrimp for the shrimper, you know?
• 21:32
  And so you don't want to have like someone giving you a nickname or
• 21:37
  any of that, you know, you need to be on your best behavior, you know?
• 21:40
  And again, it's like, I think where people go wrong, even, even when you're
• 21:46
  working in an event, like all of us.
• 21:48
  That don't own venues.
• 21:50
  Got to remember when we're on, you know, someone's property for a wedding that,
• 21:56
  you know, someone's hired us for, we are literally, you got to treat it like we're
• 22:00
  a guest in someone's home, you know?
• 22:02
  So you're not going to go stand on the chairs.
• 22:05
  You're not going to go walk in the back room and just start grabbing
• 22:08
  things you need, you know, so you need to be the, the vendor.
• 22:12
  That is prepared.
• 22:13
  You know, you have your, you know, you know, scissors and tape and whatever you
• 22:19
  need to, need to have to do your job.
• 22:21
  You have it with you.
• 22:22
  You know, I can't, it, it one that I told you I worked for
• 22:26
  that lady you know, for since 92.
• 22:28
  You know, I've been working at her properties and one of the things that
• 22:31
  is like a pet peeve for me at her, at her properties is we'll be there
• 22:34
  cleaning up at the end of the night.
• 22:36
  And, like, they'll go, and you know, another vendor will be loading
• 22:41
  out, and they use all the carts.
• 22:44
  That they have there, but what's happened is, is now the staff can't clean up
• 22:48
  the tables and, and all the stuff at the end of the night that the carts
• 22:52
  they use because the vendors using it.
• 22:54
  And so then the, the staff is getting upset at that vendor because they're, you
• 22:58
  know, monopolizing all their carts and it's now they don't realize it because
• 23:03
  it's costing the venue money because now the staff can't clean up, you know,
• 23:08
  and get out of there and clock out.
• 23:11
  Yeah, at a decent amount of time because they're, you know, they're using all
• 23:14
  their stuff and that stuff goes noticed, you know, I think along the way.
• 23:18
  So you need, I mean, invest in a card or a hand truck or all the items you
• 23:23
  need, but that even goes back to, you know, when, when we're networking
• 23:27
  at, at the, at these events is that we're a guest in someone's home.
• 23:31
  So you're not going to go open the door, go look behind, you know, if, if there's
• 23:36
  a rope blocked off of a room, stay out of it, you know, don't, you know, or don't
• 23:41
  I've seen how many times have I seen a, a, a caterer walk into the kitchen of
• 23:46
  someone else's venue, just cause they want to see the kitchen, you know, go find
• 23:50
  the venue and say, Hey, I would love, you know, I'm a caterer, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:53
  I can, I would love to see your kitchen, you know, is it possible to get a tour?
• 23:58
  You know, and, and go that way, you know, there, there's so many ways to
• 24:01
  get the end result that you're trying to look for, but in a, in a polite way.
• 24:06
  So I think, you know, remembering whether you're at a networking event or whether
• 24:10
  you're working, you know, a wedding on someone's property, you're a guest in
• 24:13
  someone's home, you know, and I say home is, you know, your guests at the venue.
• 24:18
  You know, like another, a lot of the, a lot of these venues have like
• 24:22
  lists now of, you know, rules and regulations and all that kind of stuff.
• 24:27
  And what's happening here in the United States is with the, in the photographer
• 24:31
  category is people are wanting to bring a photographer from another city.
• 24:35
  So some of these photographers are coming into our market and they
• 24:40
  basically go, I don't give an F anymore about the rules because I'm never
• 24:44
  going to be back to this venue again.
• 24:45
  And they do, you know, they're going into like spots of the vineyard and
• 24:49
  they're not supposed to, they're standing on chairs or, you know,
• 24:52
  they're not abiding by the timeline.
• 24:54
  They're doing all kinds of crazy stuff because they don't care.
• 24:58
  Becca: So yeah, but that, that attitude won't get you very far
• 25:00
  because it will catch up with them eventually, because you know, we
• 25:03
  know what it's like in this industry.
• 25:05
  People,
• 25:06
  Kevin: I agree.
• 25:07
  Becca: We, we don't want to burn the bridges that are being made there for us.
• 25:11
  Otherwise we won't have the 10 years time.
• 25:15
  Kevin: Well, exactly.
• 25:16
  Well, and flip that.
• 25:17
  What if I go and I, you know, I, I'm from another city.
• 25:20
  I come into that city and I work and I'm amazing.
• 25:24
  You right.
• 25:25
  Who's to say they're not going to, you know, and then I shared my photos with
• 25:28
  them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 25:30
  Who's to say they're not, they might not refer.
• 25:32
  I mean, they may refer me down the road.
• 25:33
  I mean, there's an opportunity for more business instead of just
• 25:36
  looking at it with blinders on.
• 25:38
  I got a piece of business.
• 25:40
  You need to look at it.
• 25:41
  Hey, I want to get more business in this area.
• 25:43
  Who knows, you know, you, you just never know where the next
• 25:46
  piece is going to come from.
• 25:48
  Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:48
  And respecting the venue, respecting the staff of the
• 25:51
  venue also go a very long way.
• 25:52
  Do you want to know one of my other ones, the one of my other pet peeves
• 25:55
  about networking is people that turn up.
• 25:58
  and act like their whole life and everything's always perfect.
• 26:01
  You know, like we see that on Instagram, like the perfect thing, but even at
• 26:04
  networking, you know, with the people who are like, yeah, I'm fully booked.
• 26:06
  I'm always fully booked.
• 26:07
  Everything's great.
• 26:08
  I'm like, that's not true.
• 26:09
  Like, let's just, like, there's gotta be something like, let's just be ourselves.
• 26:13
  Because I think when someone comes in and, and kind of emits that
• 26:17
  everything's great vibe, it just makes everyone else feel really rubbish.
• 26:20
  And no one really wants to talk.
• 26:22
  To everyone about how great their lives are.
• 26:24
  Actually, these things, the great thing about networking is having the
• 26:27
  opportunity to share our struggles, to share what's going well, to learn
• 26:30
  from each other and not to just pretend everything's rosy all the time.
• 26:34
  Kevin: Well, it's, it's funny to me cause there was a wedding coordinator.
• 26:37
  They have since decided not to be in the business anymore, but there was a wedding
• 26:40
  coordinator in my market that would do anywhere from eight to 12 weddings a year.
• 26:45
  Right?
• 26:46
  So on a good weekend, my company does, you know, eight to 12,
• 26:50
  even more weddings a weekend.
• 26:52
  And so they would act like they were the one, they knew, you know,
• 26:56
  you needed to bow down to her, you know, and give her the curtsy, the
• 27:01
  whatever, how you guys do it a whole lot more formal over there in the UK.
• 27:05
  But you know what I'm saying?
• 27:06
  You, you had, but I'm like, girl, you, why?
• 27:10
  You know, it just, but she had this like arrogance about herself, That she's
• 27:14
  a planner and I needed to kiss her.
• 27:16
  You know what?
• 27:17
  And I, and I never did because you know what?
• 27:19
  It's like, I, I, I was always friendly with the people that I'm, you know,
• 27:25
  that are friendly with me and not, you know, I, I didn't, I didn't want
• 27:28
  to play the game if that makes sense.
• 27:30
  You know, it just, there's something about it.
• 27:32
  I'm like, and in my head I'm like, Girl, you do 12 weddings a year and,
• 27:36
  and usually she hires our company for at least half of those weddings.
• 27:40
  So it's like, why am I going to, you know, I never went out of my
• 27:43
  way to go bow down to the, to the queen of, of the 12 weddings a year.
• 27:50
  Becca: Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:51
  And I think, again, being respectful to everyone in the room, right?
• 27:53
  There's no, so and so's better than so and so.
• 27:56
  We all just need to be there to help each other and a rising tide raises all ships
• 28:01
  is one of my favorite quotes and I think that's very, very true in our industry.
• 28:04
  How do you think, then, we stop?
• 28:06
  When you're very established in the industry and you know people,
• 28:09
  it's really easy to be in these rooms and you know everyone.
• 28:12
  When new people walk into the room it can be really daunting and they
• 28:15
  find it harder to maybe break into some of those conversations or be
• 28:19
  amongst people who they feel already have these established relationships.
• 28:23
  How do you think we all, as an industry, can welcome newer people in better?
• 28:28
  Kevin: You know, there's what Gigi in, in, in my old NACE chapter.
• 28:33
  She was the queen of this.
• 28:35
  So if she would look at the guest list, you know, because we were all on the
• 28:38
  leadership side of putting on these events and she would go, we have four new people
• 28:42
  today and we need to welcome all these four new people because we want these four
• 28:46
  people to come back to our next month's meeting and the meeting after that.
• 28:50
  We don't want them to show up and feel not welcome.
• 28:52
  So she made a point.
• 28:54
  To have all of us go and just like as a board you know, introduce ourselves
• 28:59
  to them, make them feel welcome, but then become a connector, you know, it's
• 29:04
  like get to know a little bit about them and then, okay, hey, I think you
• 29:08
  would want to meet, you know, this one.
• 29:11
  I think you're going to want to meet this person.
• 29:13
  Let me introduce you.
• 29:14
  Let me introduce you.
• 29:15
  And I think there's a lot of power into being a connector as well.
• 29:19
  When you go to these events.
• 29:21
  Becca: Yeah, there definitely, definitely is.
• 29:23
  Now we've talked a lot about kind of formal events, formal networking
• 29:26
  events, but also I think there's a lot of benefit from building relationships
• 29:30
  with other suppliers and the venues on the wedding day itself, especially
• 29:34
  for those vendors like yourself that are actually there on the day.
• 29:37
  How do you go about building relationships on the day itself
• 29:41
  and what's working for you in that?
• 29:43
  Kevin: So I think it's good ahead of time is like if you get the timeline from
• 29:47
  the wedding coordinator is like, Hey, You know, making sure that lines up with
• 29:51
  everything the couple has told you, as well as everything that, you know, if, if
• 29:56
  you notice that, Hey, they only marked, you know, five minutes for something, but
• 30:00
  you know, that it's going to take longer, like, Hey, ahead of time, you know, reach
• 30:05
  out to that coordinator and do that.
• 30:06
  I always, you know, try to, you know, reach out to everyone and say,
• 30:10
  here's our Instagram handles, here's our, this, and we're looking forward
• 30:13
  to working with you ahead of time.
• 30:15
  So you get there, you've already made those kinds of connections.
• 30:19
  But then even I think when you're there on the day of, like, I
• 30:22
  can't tell you how many times I've helped move chairs for the caterer.
• 30:26
  Or I've, you know, noticed that the, a photographer was struggling and, you
• 30:30
  know, like things were just kind of, you know, the wedding started off late.
• 30:34
  So now he or she's late, just helping them move you know, their,
• 30:38
  their camera bags or just, you know, helping when you can see, It's needed.
• 30:43
  Does that make sense?
• 30:44
  And not look at it.
• 30:45
  It's not my problem because I can't tell you how many times people have come up to
• 30:49
  me and say, Hey, I can't thank you enough.
• 30:51
  I really appreciate, you know, because if I'm standing around and I don't have
• 30:54
  anything to do, why not help someone else that looks like they might need help?
• 30:57
  I think that goes a long way.
• 30:59
  And then the other thing too, on the day of, I think it's, let's
• 31:01
  all, we're all in this together and we're all on team couple.
• 31:05
  And I think that's where people, you know, get wrong.
• 31:08
  It's like, I'm the photographer and I'm the most important person at this wedding.
• 31:13
  Then it's the wedding.
• 31:15
  I'm the wedding coordinator.
• 31:16
  I'm the most important, you know, everyone's trying to figure out a pecking
• 31:20
  order instead of, hey, We're on team couple, you know, like we're all there
• 31:25
  for the couple and let's work hard for that couple, you know, together and
• 31:29
  and whatever that takes, you know, for all of us to have a successful wedding.
• 31:35
  I think that goes a long way.
• 31:36
  You know, and that's where I think a lot of people forget, and unfortunately, I
• 31:40
  pick on photographers a lot when I, when I do speaking, but they're the ones that
• 31:44
  will close themselves off and not include themselves like, you know, when, when
• 31:48
  we're doing our dinner, you know, like we get fed and we're usually in a different
• 31:52
  room here in the United States, like they put us in a different room or wherever,
• 31:56
  and they're feeding us is like, you'll be there and You can't see me on the video,
• 32:00
  but they turn their backs to everyone else at the table, and we're all like, okay,
• 32:05
  and they're having their own conversation, which I think is fine, but like, be
• 32:09
  welcoming and like, talk to people and get to know, I mean, it's literally like
• 32:14
  a 20 minute plus time of the wedding.
• 32:19
  Like that's a time where you really can get to know someone
• 32:21
  and you might make a connection.
• 32:23
  The grossest thing I will say with that is a photographer, literally
• 32:27
  took her shoes off, socks off and put her feet up on the table.
• 32:31
  And I was like, I did not want to eat my dinner.
• 32:33
  It was the grossest thing.
• 32:33
  thing I have ever seen.
• 32:35
  So anyway, don't be that person either.
• 32:38
  Becca: I was gonna say, maybe don't be that person if you want to make
• 32:41
  friends and build a relationship, because I can't imagine you want to work
• 32:44
  another wedding with them anytime soon.
• 32:46
  Kevin: And it's, and we all started, we were all, we were like, what the?
• 32:49
  You know, we were like,
• 32:50
  Becca: what's going on?
• 32:52
  Each to their own, each to their own.
• 32:54
  Okay, the final venue, or sorry, the final supplier relationship I want to
• 32:58
  talk about is probably the one that some people find the most controversial, but
• 33:02
  I think can also be the most powerful.
• 33:04
  And that's building relationships with people that do the same thing as us.
• 33:07
  Have you done that over your career?
• 33:10
  Have you found that?
• 33:11
  Or have you found people to be adverse to them?
• 33:13
  Kevin: No, I actually, so it's kind of interesting.
• 33:15
  So that venue that I told you that I work at with, you know, for the lady
• 33:18
  that I've been at for a long time.
• 33:20
  So we're, our company has evolved over the years and we do a lot
• 33:23
  of lighting, drapery, decor, chandeliers and kind of stuff.
• 33:26
  And so we're one of two exclusive lighting vendors at her, had her venues.
• 33:32
  I have a phenomenal relationship with the other supplier and that's on there.
• 33:38
  And it's.
• 33:39
  They're from South San Francisco, which is, you know, it's kind
• 33:42
  of by the San Francisco airport.
• 33:44
  And I'm out here.
• 33:45
  I'm literally about eight minutes from the venue.
• 33:48
  So if it's a smaller wedding and they don't want to make the
• 33:50
  trip out here, they refer me.
• 33:52
  I will say I started now where I refer them for any, anytime I hear
• 33:57
  San Francisco people want us to do lighting, drapery, chandeliers.
• 34:01
  I refer them, you know, immediately because I don't want to work in the city.
• 34:04
  They love working in the city.
• 34:06
  You know, and we just and anytime we see each other at a networking event,
• 34:09
  we always make a point to say hello.
• 34:11
  My son is now 20 years old and has been working in our business and the wife of
• 34:17
  that other business has really made a little friendship with my son and always
• 34:21
  ask, you know, seeks him out and sees him and talks to him and, you know,
• 34:25
  You know, so it's, it's, you know, I think there's a lot of power in that.
• 34:29
  There's another business in my market that literally started a year after me and
• 34:34
  we have become the two, like it's either people are referring his company or my
• 34:40
  company or both, you know, kind of thing.
• 34:42
  And we, I have a great relationship with him to the point where I, you
• 34:46
  know, I'll send him referrals like we stopped doing school events about almost
• 34:50
  9, 10 years ago and you know, anytime a school calls us like, hey, we got
• 34:55
  a great DJ for you and we send them over there, you know, kind of thing.
• 34:58
  And so, you know, I think there's a lot, you know, and even for
• 35:01
  them, they we've gone really big and drapery lighting and decor.
• 35:06
  So if it's something.
• 35:07
  Way outside their scope, they refer, they refer us, you know, and I think
• 35:11
  there's a lot of power, like even with that like when I say, Hey, use, you
• 35:15
  know, that other company in South San Francisco, they're phenomenal and they're
• 35:20
  going to do a great job for you, I think when that, that client's going to go to
• 35:24
  them and that they're going to have a higher success I'm booking that piece
• 35:29
  of a business because, you know, it's, it's being referred from a peer to peer.
• 35:34
  I think that goes a long way.
• 35:35
  So I think, I think you got to know all of them, you know, and you get to know
• 35:38
  the good and bad and ugly, you know, and I, and I think, you know, who I think
• 35:41
  really does this well is the wedding coordinator category and the and even
• 35:46
  the photographer category because you'll see a lot of times is, you know, You
• 35:49
  know, a wedding photographer that has her own business, but she's assisting
• 35:53
  a different photographer that day.
• 35:55
  I mean, assisting another wedding coordinator that day and then vice versa,
• 35:59
  they'll, they'll help each other out.
• 36:01
  It's, you know, because on a day they don't have weddings, they'll
• 36:03
  go and just be an extra set of hands behind the scenes kind of thing.
• 36:07
  I see that with photographers sometimes you know, one is a second shooter for
• 36:13
  another one and vice versa, you know, so I think those categories do it really well.
• 36:19
  Becca: Absolutely.
• 36:19
  And I think it, it's a really healthy thing to do.
• 36:21
  I think if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I can't be friends
• 36:25
  with anyone that does the same thing as me, you're misguided and it absolutely
• 36:29
  can be some of the best relationships.
• 36:30
  Some of the best business relationships can be with people that on paper are
• 36:34
  your direct competitors, but actually can be your friends, your confidants
• 36:37
  and refer work to you all the time.
• 36:39
  Kevin: What?
• 36:40
  And they understand your pain points, you know, like, because their
• 36:43
  pain points are your pain points.
• 36:45
  I'm going to be honest with you, you know, and the other thing you got
• 36:48
  to remember is you can't do every wedding, you know, it's impossible.
• 36:52
  So you need to have people when you're booked that you can refer, you know,
• 36:57
  and vice versa, you want people to then send a referral when they're booked,
• 37:01
  you know, so I think it goes a long way.
• 37:04
  You know, especially when you see a piece of business come in at a, at a venue
• 37:07
  that, you know, you know, unfortunately you're not available that day, but you
• 37:11
  know that, you know, X, Y, Z, you know, whoever vendor will do a great job.
• 37:17
  You can say, Hey, we're not available, unfortunately for your wedding date,
• 37:20
  but here, here's a good recommendation.
• 37:22
  And I think that goes a long way.
• 37:23
  Becca: Yeah, it definitely does.
• 37:25
  And I think it builds trust with that couple as well, because they know that
• 37:28
  you've got their best interests at heart and actually they then may come back
• 37:31
  to you for another event in the future.
• 37:33
  Kevin, I've loved this conversation.
• 37:35
  I love talking about all things relationship building and networking
• 37:38
  and you've, Drop some really great tips made me laugh as well.
• 37:42
  I'm never going to forget about the photographer with their feet on the table.
• 37:44
  That's going to haunt me for the rest of the evening.
• 37:49
  So if that is you listening, maybe don't do that again in the future.
• 37:53
  Kevin, if people want to find out more about you, if they want to connect with
• 37:56
  you, maybe even network with you, where's the best place for them to find you?
• 37:59
  Kevin: Sure.
• 37:59
  So we're at fantasy sound.com or wedding iq.com is the
• 38:03
  wedding education blog I run.
• 38:05
  And then it's wedding IQ or at Wedding IQ for Instagram and then
• 38:10
  at fs ES events for Fantasy sound.
• 38:14
  Becca: Amazing.
• 38:15
  I'll make sure I put all of your links in the show notes before I let you know go.
• 38:18
  I always end the podcast with the same question, which I'm gonna pose you now,
• 38:22
  now, which is, what's one thing you wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
• 38:27
  Kevin: To not be afraid of change, I think is, is I for the longest time would fight,
• 38:33
  change, fight, change, fight, change.
• 38:35
  And I think now I have been, you know, more open to it, you know, like
• 38:41
  because you can't do the same thing over and over again the same way.
• 38:45
  So you gotta evolve.
• 38:46
  And I'm just like that.
• 38:47
  I'm a very loyal person.
• 38:49
  So like, you know, I, if you know me, you know, like there's a few
• 38:52
  things that people know about me.
• 38:54
  Cause I posted out on social media Southwest airlines, which is a huge
• 38:57
  airlines here in the United States.
• 39:00
  I am Mr.
• 39:00
  Southwest airlines.
• 39:02
  I, I am Mr.
• 39:03
  Apple.
• 39:03
  I own everything Apple ever made.
• 39:05
  You know, and so you know, so I'm pretty brand loyal when
• 39:09
  it comes to stuff like that.
• 39:10
  So it's, it's kind of funny that way, you know, and so you know, so
• 39:15
  I think just being open to change is, is something that I think.
• 39:19
  And be open to like a new idea so that when I started hiring staff at first,
• 39:25
  I was like, no, this is how we do it.
• 39:27
  And I think being open to another person's idea might get you to a bigger
• 39:34
  profit, a bigger, you know, might bring in some more pieces of business.
• 39:38
  So I think that, that, that when you ask that question and you sent it
• 39:43
  earlier, I was trying to think of like, Something profound, but I was like,
• 39:46
  no, it's just like, I'm a stubborn old grump and I gotta be open to change.
• 39:52
  So that's, that's the biggest thing.
• 39:53
  So, and the other thing I learned too, one more thing is like, I'm a weirdo.
• 39:58
  I love a nice straight line of, of tape.
• 40:02
  When you tape cords, and I'm very strange with this, and if it's not per,
• 40:06
  so it's like I, if people don't do it the way I do it, I would lose my mind,
• 40:09
  and I've learned as long as it's taped down, as long as no one can trip, it's
• 40:14
  okay, but I'm, but if you ever see my tape job, it's perfectly straight.
• 40:19
  I, I don't, I don't, it, it's just one of my weird things, but
• 40:22
  that, that, that, that doesn't help everyone in the industry.
• 40:26
  Becca: I love that though.
• 40:27
  You've, you've learned to let that go.
• 40:29
  And Kevin, quite honestly, if you hadn't adapted to change, you'd still be in the
• 40:32
  record stores every single Thursday while everyone else is downloading from iTunes.
• 40:37
  Kevin: So true.
• 40:38
  I do miss those days.
• 40:39
  Those were good days.
• 40:40
  Becca: Kevin, it's been such a pleasure.
• 40:42
  Thank you so much for your time.
• 40:44
  Kevin: No, my pleasure.
• 40:45
  Anytime.
• 40:47
  Becca: I love that conversation with Kevin.
• 40:49
  Wasn't he fabulous?
• 40:50
  And he really did make me laugh.
• 40:52
  I hope you've learned something from today's episode about how
• 40:54
  to build better relationships.
• 40:56
  Be brave, get out there, go meet some people.
• 40:59
  But remember, if you ever see me or Kevin at an event, do not
• 41:02
  throw your business cards at us.
• 41:03
  I'll see you next time.