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Can the Cardinals win with their youth movement? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, welcome to episode nine of Cardinal Territory. My
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: name's Katie who. I'm your host, and I am so
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: excited to have my very dear friend and very special guest,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Chip Carrey, the voice of the Saint Louis Cardinals, here today. Chip,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: how are you? Are you excited to be back in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Great to be back at baseball heaven, Katie, great to
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: see you. The winter warm up is upon us, and
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I think we're all ready for some warmer weather, so
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: hopefully all of those things will be happening here in
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: the next forty eight hours.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, Florida man, California girl. This is maybe the worst combination.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: It was not good getting off the plane today. I
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: can tell you.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: That no, I bought an ice craper for the first
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: time in my life, So yeah, that's ever. Well. I'm
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: thrilled to have you here. You're a very popular person,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: highly recommended. And I'm not just saying that because you
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: agree to do this for free. I'm saying that because.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Well, my name pronounced in she is cheap, so that
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: makes it easy for everybody. But I'm glad to be
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: with you. We'll have some fun, we'll talk a little
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: baseball and hopefully get people fired up for the season ahead.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. First of all, how have you, Ben?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: How has your off season? Ben? It's been a quick
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: exit since that last Cardinals Giants game back at the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: end of September.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been busy. As you know, the ingress and
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: egress with family life is the hardest part of the job,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: right You leave for six months and then you parachute
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: back in and you find out just how useless you
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: really are, except when you get the honeydew list. It's
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: as tall as the Gateway arch. But got that taking
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: care of My daughter got engaged, so that's exciting. She's
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: getting married next November. And she survived the wildfires in
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Los Angeles, so that's been kind of scary the last
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks. But all in all, it's been a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: relatively normal off season for the Carry clan. And I
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: think we're getting to that point in the season where
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: the family saying, when's Oprey Day? Isn't it time for
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you to go back to work? And I think all
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: of us once a calendar gives mid January, we all
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: start to feel the same way. And the baseball biz.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I say that a lot, and my parents also, I think,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: had that same feeling around like my third week of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: my home for the holidays, that were like, are you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: gonna leave event eventually? But why because my mom, well
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: she's the best, best cook, right, I was just super comfortable.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Why would I leave?
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, you know, my kids are kind of
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the same way. There's no space on the couch, there's
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: no space in the refrigerator. The laundry is piled up,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: you know, to mountainous heights. The yard always needs to
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: get cut, and guess we gets to do it, dear
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: old mom and dad. So that part of it's always
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: fun dealing with the generation zeniers that are in our life.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, you know, not like I can relate at all
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: that you say that. When we get to mid January,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: I usually feel that that that itch, right, like, Okay,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: it's almost baseball season, and the event that gets me
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: there is winter warm up. And I was joking with
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Trevor Rosenthal at our last show that this is like
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the event of the off season because there really hasn't
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: been anything else going on. But I do get excited
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: for winter warm up. There it's you know, we're still
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: less less than a month now from spring training, but
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: we're getting closer, and to me, this is the unofficial
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: start to this twenty twenty five season. It's really nice
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to talk to players, see what they've been up to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: for the last three months, see where the organization stands.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Usually we have things like moves to talk about. Not
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: this year, but I still think it'll be fun. Nonetheless,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and you are in Saint Louis. We're recording Thursday for
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: our Friday episode. You're here now because you and your
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: partner in crime, Brad Thompson, are going on a caravan trip.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Correct we are.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: We leave tomorrow morning, our Friday morning, I should say,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: for our trip down to Memphis. Brad Thompson and I
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: will be on the bus to Memphis with let me
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: think about this, Zach Thompson, Jordan Walker, and the rest
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: escapes me. But I'll figure that out in time for
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the bus ride at eight o'clock. And I'll probably forget
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: their names at some point while we're on the bus trip.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But anytime you can spend time with Brad's blast as
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: you know, and I think you hit it on the head.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: K The winner warm up is so much fun because
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: you're running too. The fans who are so passionate and
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: care so much about what the Cardinals do or don't do.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a life blow to the franchise obviously,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: people that really care about it the same way that
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: we do, and we are in this at least I am.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: It's a people industry, right. You care about the people
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: you spend six months with, or so spend six months
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: watching do their thing on the baseball field and behind
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: the scenes, and get a chance to catch up with
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: them after being away and separating from your baseball family.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: It is, as you said, the start of a new year.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: There's hope, there's optimism. Everybody's undefeated and everybody looks forward
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: to seeing what's going to unfold. And Jupiter on February tenth, is.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: There hope and optimism. No, you are the ray of
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: sunshine and this group for sure. That's part of the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: reason why I like to talk to you is because
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: you keep me sane. You let me see that there
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: is another side to all of this, and hopefully we'll
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: get to see that. My favorite thing about Winter Warm
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Up Weekend is just the amount of interviews that we
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: do and in the moment, because we're doing like probably
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: close to forty forty five. You're just trying to get
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: through them and make sure that you know you're staying
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: up to do on your deadlines, that your stories are written.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: But I like to go back and I like to
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: listen to a bunch of them, And there are a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: ton of players that I'm excited to hear from just
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: because I think they will be so prominent for next
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: year's team. And the big thing that we've talked about
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a lot for the twenty twenty five Cardinals is their
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: youth movement. Now as we sit here on January sixteenth,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: recording this episode, the Cardinals have done a lot of
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: advertising about their youth movement and reinvesting in player development
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: on the minor league side. They have done a great
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: job in that Heim Bloom, that's been his project, that's
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: his baby, right. Cardinals have four new player directors in
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: their player development system. They are completely revamping that program.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: It's been a long time coming. Lots of stuff on
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: the Athletic about it. If you're unfamiliar with maybe how
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: far the Cardinals have fallen in player development, and that's
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a little concerning when you think about their background and history.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Is being like a leader in this in this part
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: of the game. When it gets to the major league side, however,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: not a lot of movement there. If the Cardinals started
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the season today, they would have a starting lineup very
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: similar to last year's, both position playing wise and in
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the rotation. The only path, I think where there's true
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: room to see some of these younger guys is in
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the bullpen. So ask you this, how can the Cardinals
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: make this youth movement work? If indeed Nolan Arnado is
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: here for pitches and catchers, you already know Wilson Contreras
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: is at first base, and you have again this, if
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: this roster does not change at all, four major league
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: veterans in your rotation, how can how can the Cardinals
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: get creative?
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that's that's the sixty four million or
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: sixty seven million dollar question. Right? How does it work?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: What it works best if the Cardinals can find a
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: trade partner with Nolan Aaron, because that clears your log
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: jam on the infield, It allows you to put guys
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: in position that they're used to playing, and it frees
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: up playing time for the Donovans, the Jcs and the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: newt Bars. Right if Nolan's still here, Well, then Nolan
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Goren probably is going to be back at second base. Well,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: if he's at second base, what do you do with
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: s JC, what do you do with Donovan? Well, if
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Donovan's then left, that means Nutbar goes to center, where
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: he's better off as a corner out theater. You know
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Walker is going to play right, and you've got Contraras
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: at first base. We'll probably play there with with Alec Burlison.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So look, the lynchpin move for the Cardinals is what
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: can they do if anything with Nolan Arenado. I no
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Mo has tried. I know he thought he had to
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: deal with Houston that went by the boards. But as
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of now, if I were to grade what Saint Louis
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: has done at the major league level, I'd give him
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: an incomplete what most said he wanted to accomplish, he
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: has not been able to yet. But if he is
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: able to do that, I think the runway that they
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: keep talking about giving these guys Katie is going to
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: be something very important. You know, you've been around these guys.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: If you go for FOURIG and you're in your first
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: or second year in the major league, you wonder am
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: I going to be back in the lineup tomorrow or
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: am I one phone call away or one zero for
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: four from going back to double triple. And I think
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: knowing for these guys that they're going to be able
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: to play extended game reps is going to help their
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: performance on the field. I think it's going to help
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: them psychologically, and I really think it's going to be instrumentally,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: hugely important, I should say, for their professional growth as
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: major league players. Cardinals are going to find out if
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: they think what they have is what they have and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: if the players are well, then we're going to see
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the basis for the next great Cardinal teams. If they're not,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: they're going to know that too. And either way, you
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: have concrete answers instead of a great deal of unknowns,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: which serves nobody well.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I think I agree, And I think that's why if
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I'm a Cardinals fan or just looking at this team
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: from the outside perspective, I'm a little antsy because right
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: now there are so many unknowns and there's really no
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: way to know if these problems are going to be solved. Because,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: like you said, I like how you described the Ronado
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: trade or no trade is the Linchpin here like, are
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals preparing for us snario in which he returns? Yes,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: of course at this point you have to be prepared for.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: That's in no way saying that he will. But at
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: January sixteenth, virtually no traction since the ill fated Astros
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: trade attempt. This is a reality that John Mozelok and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: his crew will be considering. And mo has been very
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: candid in what the plan for twenty twenty five is,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and he's used the word runway so many times because
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: that's what he wants to give to these guys. And
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I love the point that you make about players knowing
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: that they have guaranteed playing time regardless of individual results
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: or team results. That's so important when you think of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: a guy like Nolan Morman or Jordan Walker. And I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: think we've talked about this before. These are guys that
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: have come up, struggled and have had to be sent
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: down because the Cardinals are trying to contend and trying
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to keep a top the Nlcentral this year. What the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are saying is it's okay if they struggle, We're
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: going to throw them in there every day and they're
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: going to get the chance to work through it so
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: we know what kind of players they are. That's going
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: to really help I think overall confidence. Where you kind
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: of draw into question on if that can happen or
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: not is if there's enough playing time to go around.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: We know the guys that are locks for playing time.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Jordan Walker is going to start in my field almost
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: every day. Nolan Gorman MO has said it before. Five
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: hundred to six hundred plaint appearances. That's the goal they'd like.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: If Lars Newpark can stay healthy, that's a big concern.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: He's gonna be there every day. Can he play center field?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I know in years past there's been I don't want
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: to say the Cardinals don't want him to play center field.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: They're certainly comfortable doing that if they need to. But
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: he just profiles much stronger as a corner outfielder. Is
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: this the year that they try to see if he
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: can learn to play center on the fly. Yes. They
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: have Mike Sianni, who I think is an elite defender.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: You have Victor Scott, a very exciting prospect. So how
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: do you balance that playing time? If Nolan Arnott is
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: at third base and Nolan Gorman's playing second Brendan Donovan
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: is still a super utility, which is helpful, but it
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't really alleviate the playing time for Alec Burlison or
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Thomas Jace. You go down the list and that's not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: even getting into the pitching side. So I don't know
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: if the Cardinals can can pull off their self proclaimed
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: youth movement right now. The current notation Sonny Gray, Miles Michaelis,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Eric Betty, Stephen Matts, Andre Polante. Okay, so there's one
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: guy out of five that is under thirty and someone
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: that you can maybe plan for years and years to
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: come and some of these issues problems if you will
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: come from contracts. Right, the Cardinals gave Sonny Gray no
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: trade clause. They gave Wilson contrasts and no trade clause.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: They did not give Nolan Arnatto one. They inherited one.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: But these are still things they have to work around.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Miles michaelis no trade clause. Well, I think it's great
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that both Gray and Contrarasts expressed their preference to stay.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I think that does a lot for a fan base,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and I think it puts some belief in the young
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: guys that these two guys, which are so accomplished in
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: their individual careers want to be a part of this
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: next movement. I think that's great. It's still to me
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: makes me wonder how the Cardinals can promote their internal pitching,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: their young pitching, because they do have a lot of
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: exciting guys. It just seems like no place to put
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: them except the bullpen, and I don't know if that's
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: a route still want to keep going down. You've seen it, yeah, and.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it depends on, as you said,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the Aren Auto deals a lynch bit. If you can't
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: move him, well, then maybe you move guys that have
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: big salaries in your starting rotation to give opportunities to
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the Michael McGreevey's, the Gordon brissepos, maybe Queen Matthews, tink
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Kents to co Robi, Sam Roversa and guys like that
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: that are already here and in the organizations. That's a
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: conversation between you and Dusty. I know you speak to
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: him a lot about the pitching plans and what the
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Cardinals want to try to do. But I think the
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: optimistic side of me says the following about the young guys.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I think this group as a whole is going to
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: be extremely motivated to prove the naysayers wrong that the
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: bad years that some of those guys had last year
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: or an aborration that the upward trajectory of their career
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: is ready to start with consistent playing time. I really
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: think that they're going to be motivated to be the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: next group that gets the Cardinals into the playoffs, that
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: wins playoffs series. It becomes cornerstone pieces here. The obligation
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: for the veterans and the pitching staff is, well, what
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Ken Sonny Gray, what Ken Miles Michaelas teach, the Quinn
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Matthews as the tin Kenses and the Michael mcgreevies who
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: are here or on their way. That's their job too,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: not just going out and pitching every fifth day. And
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: those are guys that have had major leagu's success. And
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I think there are a couple of bounce back candidates.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Do you think Miles Michaelis wants to try to five
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Era out there again for the Cardinals in the last
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: year of his deal. No, you talked to Miles a lot.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I can't think of a guy that works harder, that's
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: more motivated to be great than he may not be.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: But I don't think there's any question in my mind
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that he, as he said so nicely the other day,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be a guy that's a good
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: riddance player when his contract ends. He wants to leave
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: with a positive memory burnished in the minds of Cardinal fans.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And this guy pitched hard, he pitched his heart out,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: and he pitched well at times for Saint Louis. And
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: we're really proud of the contributions that he made here.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: And I think that's going to be a very big,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, from the outside looking and motivating factor
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: for not just the old guys, but the young guys
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: on this team this year.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Agreed. I really like that story done by Derek Gold.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: In the Saint Louis Post dispatch, Miles Michaeliss was very
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: candid and he said this line stock out to me
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: or stood out to me. It was he owes the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: fans of Saint Louis better baseball, and that kind of
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: mentality when you're a young player, very multiple is so important.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Sonny Gray really embraces that kind of leadership job, a
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: leadership role, I should say. He likes being the guy
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that young kids come to. And you may not think
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: that because Sonny is such a he's a pitcher, right,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: He's a picture a very very serious competitor, very quirky
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: about the way that he does things, but it works
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: for him. He really likes being a guy that someone
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: can lean on, and that's going to be part of
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: his job. Not only is it going to be his
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: job to lead the rotation performance on the field, he's
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: also going to be leading the next form, the next
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: rotation off the field as well. And there are some
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: exciting guys. I really liked what we saw to Mike
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: McGreevey came up three starts. He was really good. And
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I know, small sample size, I understand, and the Cardinals
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: didn't really have much to lose in September at that point,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: but not to McGreevy. McGreevy I thought was really impressive.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: The way he carried himself, the way that he prepared,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and also how he pitched. There's no fear in that guy.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: And when you're a guy that's coming up and you
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: know that that end of the twenty twenty four season
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: was probably an early audition for a potential rotation spot
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: come twenty twenty five, there could be some nerves there.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: You could be in your head not McGreevy. You just
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: went out there and pitched like he's been doing his
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: whole life, and I thought that was exciting. We've talked
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: about Polonte a lot on the show, obviously, someone that
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: we're going to see. What I don't want is I
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: would hate for the Cardinals to have all of these young,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: impressionable starting pitching caliber pitchers and force them into the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: bullpen just to get them experience. Because as we've seen,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: let's go down the list, Polante, Matthew Liberatore, Kyle or not.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Who am I thinking of? Zach Thompson. I don't know
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: why I was going to say Kyle Gibson, he did not.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: It just you go down the list of prominent starting
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: pitching prospects that have come up as relievers and have
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: been kind of bounced around. And I understand it's the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: big leagues. When you get an assignment, you take it
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and you run with it. But I think it has
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: really stalled some of the development, especially for a guy
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: like Zach Thompson, who a former first round pick, has
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: not really yet been able to figure it out. Matthew
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Libertor has been very candid about how tough that experience
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: was Polonte as well. I would hate for like the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: next wave of guys to come up and some of
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: them might turn into really good believers like Libby did.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But let's not pretend like that was a like, you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: done deal. That was a lot of trial and error
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and a lot of gripe that Libby had to figure
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: out in real time. So I would really hope that
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals maybe straight from that approach and see what
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: happens when you develop starting pitching prospects as starting pitchers.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: But again, it's the big leagues, so you take the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: opportunity when you get it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for the Cardinals to get where
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: they want to go, Katie, I think we've seen it
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: all around baseball, right, how do you win? If you pitch,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: you have a chance to win. If you don't, you don't.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: It's really simple. I think we tend to over complicate
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: a pretty simple game. And the Cardinals have really struggled
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to develop homegrown, dominant starting pitching for a long long
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: time and that's got to change. And I think they
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: feel like they have some guys in the pipeline that
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: have a chance to come up and be more than
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: serviceable major league starting pitchers. And look, we can debate
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: till the cows come home about the importance of the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: starting pitcher. Right, just give me five, give me six innings,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: get out of the game. Just don't lose the game.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Give me a chance to win it with an overpowering bullpen.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals have some of those pieces in
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: place that can do that. But when you think about
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the growth that Andre Polante experienced last year, use that
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: as a template for all of the young players, position players,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: pitchers alike. What the Cardinals could accomplish. Look at Alec
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Berlason in the playing time he got. Yes, he faded
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: in the second half of the season, but look at
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: what he did with his four hundred plus at bats.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: He was arguably the Cardinals' best hitter for two and
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: a half months last year. If that can translate to
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: other guys on this pitching staff, the Ryan Fernandez is
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: who will be on the caravan with me? Oh yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals have a chance to have a
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: very fun and exciting year. Look, as fans, we all
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: get terrified about the unknown. What's gonna happen? We don't know. Well,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: that's why you play number one, But number two that's
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the excitement of it. Right when you see a young
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: guy come in that you don't know what he's capable of,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: go out and do well, then all of a sudden,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: your perspective on him and the entire team changes. Right,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute. These guys are pretty fun, they're exciting
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: to watch. They're not going to win every game, but
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: they play hard, they represent the front of the uniform great,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: they represent our city great, and they care. And I
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: think that's a player that anybody and a team like
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: that can and will get behind. And so my message
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: to the fans would be very simply, I don't know
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen in twenty twenty five. I don't
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: know if this refresh is going to bear fruit quickly
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: or slowly. I know it will at some point, but
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: come grow along with us, Come watch these guys, come
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: support them, because there's a pretty good chance that these
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: guys are going to have a breakout year. And as
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I said before, nobody expects them to do it. And
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: when that happens, when you're good and nobody expects you
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: to be those are the most magical years that nobody
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: ever ever forgets.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: It's a great point and I think to your point
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: here that Cardinals fans will show up if you have
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the group of the future. This is a very loyal
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: fan base. I mean, they're they're not afraid to voice
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: their opinion, nor should they. They are absolutely instrumental to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the city of Saint Louis, not just Cardinals baseball. And
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I think where the fan frustration is is there's not
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity yet to see that new era
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of baseball. It seems it seems very similar the roster
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to last year and Cardinals. You know, do they really
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: want to go out there and see a bunch of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: guys playing out the end of their contracts and are
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: delaying new talents. I mean you think of like what
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a guy like Ting Hens or Quinn Matthews can do
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: if he comes out they either of them come out
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: there and perform, Well, you think fans are going to
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: get behind that. Look how quickly they got behind Mason Wynn.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: They're still supporting Jordan Walker. They love themselves. Malc Gurlison, like,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: if you give this fan base something to invest in,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: they will. I think the frustration right now is they
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: just feel like there hasn't been a lot of change yet.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And all of this. You know, one text, I could
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: get one text, one call right now, a move has
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: been made, it hasn't, and it would change this entire conversation.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: But I think fans are so frustrated by the organization
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: staying somewhat stagnant and rolling out the same roster, the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: same plan for another year. That's what's frustrating. I think
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: fans want to see that next era. You think, like
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: developing starting pitching is so important, especially considering the astronomical
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: prices of the starting pitching market, which we know the
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are not really going to be invested in. That's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: just what they' that's what history tells us. So if
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: you're a Cardinals fan, you're paying attention to the game,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you see tink Hens come
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: out makers major league debut next year in twenty five
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and he shoves, or you see McGreevy figure it out,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: or Polante figure it out. All of a sudden you
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: start to buy in, like, oh, is this the next
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Cardinals pitcher? Like they don't have to go out and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: find one on the market. Last year the Cardinals rotation
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: five free agent starters or trades like these are all
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: they that had to go get that's not sustainable, right,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So that's what I think fans are looking for. They're
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: looking for the opportunity to see the next wave of baseball,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and as we stand today, it doesn't look like it's
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: a necessarily a seamless fit.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I think to be fair, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: we all talk about the farm system and developing our players. Right,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: if you think about it, look at it pretty fairly.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I think you'd have to say that all the Cardinals
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: youngsters are already here, and maybe their ETA was was
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: pushed forward a year or maybe two years sooner than
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: it should have been out of necessity, right, Herrera and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: PAHs homegrown guys, uh s Jac they acquired in trade
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: down of a homegrown guy, Mason Wynn, homegrown guy, newtbar
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: homegrown guy, Victor Scott, Jordan Walker, homegrown guys. That's pretty impressive.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: In today's era of Major League Baseball, where there's so
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: much player movement, there are a lot of guys that
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: they have invested a lot of high draft picks, time
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: and money in getting to the major leagues. Now it's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: time for them to develop up here and figure it out.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And I think once they do that. If they do that,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: or even if they don't, then fans can get rid
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: of that that. I don't know what's going to happen mentality, right,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: fans want certainty. I want to come see I want
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: to pay my money to go see a star. Who's
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: the next Cardinals star going to be? Is it Brenda Donovan,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: is it Mason Win? Is it Jordan Walker? Well, we're
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: going to find out among the position players. They're going
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to get a great chance to see those guys get
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: their five hundred and six hundred bats, and we're going
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: to know a heck of a lot more about them
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: as players, about the standing of the Cardinals team as
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: a whole, by the time we get to August first.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And that's what matters here. We know baseball Heaven. It
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: feels a lot more like baseball purgatory lately because there
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: is just no definitive direction, and the Cardinals have said
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: multiple times what they'd like their direction to be. Now
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: it's just a matter of getting there. They have four
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: weeks and then six weeks of spring training, so we'll see.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not throwing in the towel yet. I just under
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I do understand the fan thanks about the situation. It's
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the January. The team looks exactly the same, minus the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: free agents that they knew were going to walk away anyway.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And that's a good point, if I can interrupt. You know,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: there's a team that won eighty three games last year
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: with a terrible offense.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Think it's a fair it's a fair point to make that.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: You've got to expect that a full season of Wilson
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Contreras is going to make this offense better. Mason went
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: with a full year under his belt, may be better
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: than he was. If Arnatto states, you know, he's going
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: to be extremely motivated to be a heck of a
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: lot better. If neut Bar can play one hundred and
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: twenty games, he should be better. You hope, And I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: know we're selling hope in the old you know, hope
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: in one hand, something else in the other which fills
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: up first. But you've got to hope and believe that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Jordan Walker is going to figure out is an He's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: an intelligent He's an intelligent kid who gets it and
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: wants to be great. If all of those things happen, well,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: then we're talking about a team that could very easily
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: be in the mid eighties in wins from an offensive standpoint,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and then you think a whole lot differently about your
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: club come trade deadline in twenty twenty five. So me,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: I tend to be a little more optimistic than most,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: but I can afford to be. I don't have to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: live and die with the outcome of the games. I
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: don't put the team together, nor to you, but I
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: think it's safe to say I'm rooting for these kids.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited for them to get this opportunity, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: many other markets and many other organizations they wouldn't or
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: they would have been moved on. I think it takes
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of courage to have patience, as Clint Hurtle
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: once said, and the Cardinals are doing that with their
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: young players because I don't think they want to repeat
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: some of the mistakes they've made in decades past where
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: they've gotten rid of guys too early as opposed to
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: too late. So it's going to be a fascinating year
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: on many, many different levels come opening day March twenty eight.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I like this because I would hate coming to pitchers
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and catchers and feeling pessimistic. And I do think to
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: make a great point that the Cardinals on eighty three
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: games in a busmal offense last year. Wilson contraras bookmark.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: This is going to take off playing first base. He's
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: going to go crazy. I had a conversation with a
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: couple of writers today at our Baseball Writer's dinner that
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: you know, that's our pick to click for the offense.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: There are reasons to believe in this team. Just right now,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like a very positive time for the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: history of the organization. But that's how we leave baseball,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and that's why all of us keep coming back.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's kind of symbolizes our city, doesn't it, right.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I mean people kind of count out Saint Louis. Yeah,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: does a city have a lot of problems. There are
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of things that we would like to see
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: improve and be better. Yeah, And I think people all
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: around our nation kind of kick Saint Louis to the
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: curve and sort of dismiss us. I think that we
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: have a right to have a little bit of a
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: chip on our should. It's a great place to live
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: and work, it's a great franchise. It's been a terrific team.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: There are people that really really care and are motivated
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to put their best foot forward for the people that
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: are paying their harder and money to come out and
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: watch and play at Bush Stadium. And I really think
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: that that's going to be a subconscious motivating factor for
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a lot of these teams. Dismiss this club at your
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: own peril. I think. I'm not saying they're going to
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: get to the World Series. I'm not saying they're gonna
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: win the Division. But I can promise you this, Ollie
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and his staff are going to have these guys playing
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: hard one hundred and sixty two times a year, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: for that, I hope fans will be very, very proud
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: of that effort.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Love it my last one for you before we get
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: out of here. We have plenty of things to prepare for,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: like you can figuring out the names on your caravan. Yeah,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you got why. I like this question. I asked it
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a lot because I think it's fascinating, and also because
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: there are so many options to choose. Who take all
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the players in the organization that you think have a
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: chance to perform at the major league level in twenty
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: twenty five? Who is the player you're most excited to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: see next year?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Player I'm most excited to see next year. I'm gonna
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: say Jordan Walker. Yes, Jordan Walker, because he, fairly or not,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: is such using the term lynchpin again like what we
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: did with Arnatto. I think he is such a lynch
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: into what the Cardinals organization wants to be. It's been
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: two decades since they've developed their own homegrown middle of
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the order back think about that. I mean you got
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to go back to Deliver Poole's right, that's pretty much
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the last impact offensive player that was born and raised
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: a Cardinal, got to the show, became the star, and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: eventually a superstar. I think Jordan Walker has all the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: tools in the world to be that kind of player.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And look, you know, we are fortunate enough to get
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a chance to talk to Jordan as a human being.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Forget the baseball player part. I can't think of a
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: younger player that cares more about what he's supposed to do,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: what he wants to do, and what he believes he
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: can do than he and so I think he has
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a chance to really really be a special player if
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: we give him the time to figure it out. This
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: is such a hard game. And yeah, I know they
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: get paid thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, all that stuff.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I get that he's a twenty three year old kid
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: trying to make his way in a very very difficult
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: business with not all of safety net or runway. Well,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: all those things, as we said, have been taken away
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: from him. I just wanted to relax, go out and killut.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: And if he does that, look out, because we'll have
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: a monster on our hands. I think love that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I would love nothing more than that, and I would
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: love very much to be reunited with you soon. So
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: luckily that will happen this weekend. Everyone's favorite event of
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the year, Winter warm Up. Let's go, Oh my gosh,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: what a time that's doom. From us on car Territory.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Trevor Rosendel's back with us on Tuesday. Most likely. I
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: think he might be actually flying back from Winter warm Up,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: So we'll have two episodes next week. Just keep you
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: posted on the days you guys don't have this podcast works.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: We're figuring it out day by day. You can follow
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: us on Twitter at card Territory, Like and subscribe to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: our page on YouTube, find us on Spotify, Apple, wherever
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Chip Carry, Thank you so much.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: For keep up the great work at the Athletic.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: We'll see you. Thank you. I will definitely see you soon.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: All right, We'll talk to you guys next week. See ya.