Latest / TPOD- TTRPGs in Taipei / Episode 4: Yohann Person talks about his game Laskuvia

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Episode 4: Yohann Person talks about his game Laskuvia · TPOD- TTRPGs in Taipei

• Yohann Person: I want a game that is not only you explore a dungeon and after you pass to the next dungeon. I want really a game where you the player will be able to see the difference there is where depending on the different actions they do in this world. I want them to be able to see this. So I want to kind of create some quests that will unlock depending on what the player do in the game. But I still want to keep the the the goal is to basically keep the role game part, but kind of make it a bit like also okay, you are you are playing a role game, so you do whatever you want. But when you do this whatever you want, no matter what you choose, you will arrive to some big story, big stuff that will unfold and where the player will have to take some world changing decision. Vorthak: Thank you for listening to the countdown with Vorthak on WTPOD, the only home for rock and roll in the Western Reaches. Coming up after the countdown, we'll have an interview with Mr. Yohann Person, where he talks about his game Laskuvia But before the interview, Uncle Vorthak wants to tell you a tip. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, if you ever send goons out to do your bidding, you better pay those goons. If you don't, it might just come back to bite you where the sun don't shine. Don't ask Uncle Vorthak how he knows some lessons or learn the hard way. Rounding out the countdown tonight, we have one more song for ya. I bet you can guess what it is. It's the Tomcats with Ochi Blue. Cam: well I'm here with my guest today. His name is Yohann Person. He lives in Taipei and ran a game at T Pop. It's a game actually That he himself wrote a game system that he wrote called Laskuvia Yohann has been working in Taipei and and other countries in Asia as a developer for the past few years. And today we're gonna talk to Yohann about Lascovia and about his experience playing games and running his game and how to develop a an entire system from scratch. So Yohann, hello, it's nice to hear from you today. How are ya? Yohann Person: Hi, I'm pretty good. Thank you. Nice to be here and happy to be able to talk a bit about my game. Cam: Hmm, yeah, glad to have you. Glad to have you. no, actually I I grabbed a couple questions from the from the Discord and like the the GM discussion area. So I'm gonna ask you one. And also by the way, if ever we like say something that we don't mean to say or you can like stop and think for a moment, whatever, you know, I can cut it all out. So like, you know, you don't have to be perfect all the time, right? Yohann Person: Sure, sure, but let's make it let's try to make it natural anyway. Cam: Of course, of course. It comes from Iona. It says, How effective and reliable are potions in your world? How available are potions in your world? so to you, in in Laskuvia or in another game you run, how would you how do you deal with potions? Are they are there a ton of potions Yohann Person: So this Cam: and they're super powerful or are they hard to find? Go on. Yohann Person: so no, yes, so they are very easy to find because you can buy them in any any town. After you have some town where you can find some more powerful portion, but it's more when you go higher in the level. at first you can find the small portion anywhere in town and just buy them. I want them to be very easy to access. and after I don't want to This is something I don't want to have too many too powerful potion. I think perhaps to keep that for the special item. the potions they will they will stay at the simple. You need potion to get more HP, you need some potion to get more mana, and some potion to get more fatigue points, that is that is something in my that I build in my system Cam: I I think I think that's more or less how I I feel as well. Although I will say if potions are so common, like if potions are everywhere, then I wonder like how do you fight a war, right? Because if if there's if there's ten potions per person, or it's so easy to make a cauldron full of potions, what's a war like? Yohann Person: So yeah. So there is Yeah, yeah. So there is so there is there is two systems. So first there is an alchemist system that I don't introduce usually with new player, but it's something that I think is important. The player can be adventurer, but also evolve in their world and create their unique character. and increasing the skill is not that easy. You don't just become herbalist by just going to the herbalist shop paying some money and it's done. It's something that the player will need to increase and work on during several sessions to get to certain point where he can craft his own potion. And so for about for the war thing etc there is still a system that potion cannot be used that easily. you can think the the way I see it is yeah you are in a fight you are in fight against a guy fighting sword against sword and you cannot just say pause I'm taking my potion So when you are in close combat, you are not allowed to use any potion. You need to be in a place where you are where you have the capacity and the time to drink this potion for let it to take effect. So this is the way I see it. You cannot just fill yourself with potion all the time, yeah. Cam: Yeah, I think D and D gets around that problem specifically with attacks of opportunity, which you know, the game we've been playing a lot of recently, Shadow Dark has no attack of opportunity, but but you're right, it would be strange in a sword fight to just like pull out a energy drink and just chug the whole thing. So yeah, I sorta like that you can't do it. Yeah. Yohann Person: Yeah. I I was thinking these ways that Cam: Yeah. Yohann Person: If you try to do it, basically the I think the opponent will try to strike you or push you or something and it will basically not work. So I just Cam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yohann Person: I just make it like no, it's not possible. Perhaps later we can think of, I am in a very difficult position, I try to do that. It gives an attack opportunity from the opponent. It's a system that also exists in Laskuvia. But I prefer to use it more like opportunity attack happen like when you are in close combat with someone and you try to go move move away from the fight and this will Cam: Right. Yohann Person: give a opportunity attack from the opponent. Cam: Hmm. Yohann Person: Yeah. Cam: I want to ask you a little about yourself. when did you start playing role playing games and how long have you been playing role playing games? Yohann Person: I don't know so it took me some time. I remember that I read Dungeon and Dragon, I don't remember which version, because it was to my uncle. so I read the rule of Dungeon and Dragon because I was very interested into into this, this kind of system that I didn't know, and I was certainly around twelve or fourteen. And even if I really enjoy reading the rule I feel like it was way too complicated for me. And so Cam: Yeah, yeah. Especially at that age, yeah. Yohann Person: yes, and so even if my brother will love to play a lot of board game and I play Dungeons Dragons board game, not the role game, that is also a very fun game. but the I say that the first time I started to play to play really world game, it was with with Call of Cthulhu. with Call of Ctuhlhu and I was around 16 if I remember well. And it's basically a friend that that says that he played with some friend and you know the normal setup he he played a game and he makes us play the same game as get as a dungeon master, as game master instead of player. And I love it. I love I love Call of Ctuhlhu. I think it's pretty cool. And but I think what's really make me start my game. So there is two things. First it's make a long time that I wanted to have a project of my own. I never really decided what. I tried different things a game, building a video game, building starting writing a book, but no matter what I try, I seem like it was difficult for me to finish this project. But now with this Laskuya game, what's very nice is that after I passed the cap of creating the basic rule and the basic universe. I'm now able to test it with different players. Actually the the there is some players that join the game since it's created nearly. And they this is a group of players with who I test everything and they are really enthusiastic every time there is something new. They are very critical so about some parts so that I can I can modify the game depending on what of of their feedback. And so this starts I started to work on Mascobia perhaps four years ago, I think four to five years ago, something like that, yeah. Cam: So I've got to play Lascovia. Is that the most like recent version of the game then? The game that you like run, say at T Pop or or when I've played on our Sunday group, is that like the the most recent version of the game? Yohann Person: yeah, so so at the moment at the moment it's not outside in the outside world. I am the only game master for this game at the moment. because it's still in construction, so I don't want let's say that I think that I arrived to a to to to a moment of the life of the game where the basic rule are kind of fixed. There is possible some little change that will happen, change of name, change of power, but mostly the basic rule are here. And the basic universe is here. These two things will not change. These two things are here and they will not change. Now, what I want is to create the different story of the world. And I think this stuff changes and this stuff is important. It's in my a lot of this little story are in my head or mostly pointed approximately in my head. Let's say I need to just write them. I need to start to write them. I need to start to really build all the the steps of this story. And I think this is the very important part for me of Lascovia is that I want a game that is not only you explore a dungeon and after you pass to the next dungeon. I want really a game where you the player will be able to see the difference there is where depending on the different actions they do in this world. I want them to be able to see this. So I want to kind of create some quests that will unlock depending on what the player do in the game. But I still want to keep the the the goal is to basically keep the role game part, but kind of make it a bit like also okay, you are you are playing a role game, so you do whatever you want. But when you do this whatever you want, no matter what you choose, you will arrive to some big story, big stuff that will unfold and where the player will have to take some world changing decision. we talk about the higher level for sure, but yeah, this is this is this is the way I see it in the game. Cam: That's that's quite interesting. actually I I I sort of want to go back, although you you gave me so much to think about here. I'll move forward with it in a moment. But first I wanna say so it it sounds like you've tried a lot of creative projects, but but writing Last Scuvia is one that you've been able to stick with. Do you think it's because like it's easy to make the core of the game and then build on top of it over time versus writing a novel or writing a making a video game? Or do you think there's something else to it that makes you like keep coming back and keep developing developing it? Why do you think it's been easier for you to develop Las Scoopia than than like finish other creative projects? Yohann Person: So yeah, to this question I'm pretty sure I I I know for sure. this is because actually I start to build the game and I was able to get feedback from people. So when I start to when you start to build something, like a book, when you start to write a book, you don't get feedback until the book is finished and it's take a very long time. Cam: that's right. Yeah, yeah. Yohann Person: Laskuvia I start with, I have an idea. okay, that's cool. but I don't like the game systems Cam: Yeah. Yohann Person: that exist. I want something simpler. I was something simpler but that keeps the core mechanic like the the the attack, the defence, but I want to make it simple, but not too simple so that it becomes dumb. like yeah. I don't really have example but you dodging is different from armor, magic attack is different from from from physic attack etc etc. I wanted to keep something that makes sense, that's that is logical, basically. Yeah, I want to keep the logic inside my universe. But I still want to keep yes, Cam: Internally consistent. Yeah. Yohann Person: exactly, but I still want to make it like fantastic, beautiful, with gods, etc. But I want the physics to still have a logic inside the world. So simplify, but not too much. yeah, and Cam: I think Yohann Person: the fact that I can get feedback when I s when each time I'm playing with different at the different session, it makes me want to play more. Like I when I finish a quest with my player and they're like, it was awesome, we really like this part, this part, and this part. However, we we can is there s is there something after this? And I'm like, not yet, but actually, yeah, I can find something after this. And Like the at the start, for example, there were a lot of change to do on the battle system. At first there were there were way too many damage, so I had some armour and after there were way too many armor. So I had to to balance all that. And the fact that I am able to play every month with different people and I'm getting different feedback, it made me want to keep going. I want my player to be happy and want to keep playing my game. So this is why I think I'm able to keep going on this this project where my other projects fail because it's difficult to make them test until they are finished. Cam: I I read recently in a book, it's a it's an old book. I think it's called homoludens, about how play and and games is the like manipulation of image in one way. Like one way to imagine play or one way to describe play and to play a game is to manipulate an image or the imagination. So it sounds like you have a a world that you've imagined and a system, like a a a way that it works, a way that things proceed. And then you play this game with other people and that that changes even your imagination about it. You put the image in their head of what the world is like and then they interact with it and that changes the im the image to you and you have to go back and fix it. so or or you have to go and and do more to it. So how do you like write new things that fit into that world after players do something to it? Like you say any quest you follow will lead to like world changing sort of consequences. So how do you bake that into the system? How does that work exactly? Yohann Person: So so basically there is there is some specific quest that's where you will find some specific characters that will be able to that you will be able to follow during different quests or not because you can also decide to kill them, for example. And so basically each time you do a quest, depending on the way you finish the quest, you will earn some alignment, but not specially bad or good, not Not chaotic or or the opposite of chaotic. Just more like you will be yeah, lawful, thank you. Cam: Yeah, lawful. Okay, yeah. Yohann Person: it will be you you will be more appreciate by some faction inside the game. Some faction and some of the race. And after you will also have this this lawful or or chaotic, but it's more It's more like it's not the most important. The most important is if you there is, for example, in my world there is two s two race that did war during very long time and that are at the moment at beast, relative peace. And you know in the game from the start, so there is no spoiler inside that, but you know that there is some people of this faction that would like to restart a war. for different reasons that the player will have to discover and basically what do they want to do. And basically will you side with one of these factions? Will you let them just be? Or will you yeah, will you will you try to take control of one of these factions? And all this will be able via different quests. There will be different quests that the player will be able to play, or they can also invent their own quest. This is something that I really like. game and I certainly don't want to take that away. So this this happens several times that my players just decide to do their own quest and I really don't want them to want to block them from that. You have you have the way the way I see it when I will create my book is that I will really put the information of different city, all the different city of the different kingdom, empire, etc. And after in each city I will write the name of the most important character. This is the most important character and what they can influence in the world. And from there, after if the player wants to affect the want to do something that is actually not in a quest, I will try to make a maximum of this quest. But it's possible that the player do something that is not planned. It's actually always happened. It's the it's a goal of role gaming. Cam: That's how it always goes, yeah. Yohann Person: The the the the game master will still have the ability to go to to to the book and to check okay they want to do that so this character has this power, etcetera. They try to get close to him to do this. Hey, it's possible. Let's try it will be to the game master now to try to create a kind of quest for it to happen. So this is the way I said. Cam: so this sounds like a kind of a lot of bookkeeping for the the GM, which which actually leads me to my next question. So like a lot of games exist on a line of like really complex rules, very like simulation you know, the rules lead to simulation. Pathfinder is similar to this. D and D five is sort of like this. And on the other hand, there's narrative games, that the rules are are much less important, they're much less involved. and and I I think that you want games to have both narrative and and mechanism inside the game. So it's not just that everybody fla says, I have a sword, I kill the dragon. so there is some sort of you know, consequence some sort of way Yohann Person: Exactly. Cam: of of resolving problems. But on the other hand you don't want it to be so bogged down with note keeping that that the story doesn't move forward. So, how is it that that Lascuvia deals with this and how do you try and strike that balance in a game? Yohann Person: Yeah, so so first but it's kind of I I see it's a bit like I explained, but first it starts with simple rules. Simple rules so that we don't lose too much time on rolling for killing one creature. So this is something I try to make my fight fast enough so that we don't pass all the time fighting. Even let's be honest, there is a lot of time fighting. There will be. But it will depend on your quest. I also don't want to be restrictive of the quest that the player has. There is some quests that are mostly about fighting and there is some quests that don't require any fighting. And after there is some quest where the player, depending on who they play, they will they will they will be able to do the fighting or to do the the investigation. And about how do I conceal both is by doing this alignment again. So I return on this alignment like you you you there is so I don't want to spoil too much, so I'm trying to find a small quest that doesn't really matter. but there is there is a quest where you need to You need to bring back some some cargo from someone. Someone asks you to bring back a cargo. Except that on the road you will find some some thief that will try to stall your cargason. But you can you can just kill the thief and be on your way, or you can start to talk with them, try to know how do they know that you are on this path, how do they know what there is in the cargason? etcetera and it will lead you to different choice after this and this will gain in certain alignment and will unlock some new quest of or on one side or the other. On one side or the other you will be able to know a bit more of the world and after do you want to decide to start to know a bit more on this path or do you want to change back to another quest that is seems more important to you? it will be the decision of the player. And I will try to the maximum to have this main quest to be well documented on the different paths that the player can take. And to try to not make it too difficult for the game master. It's still in process because for the moment the game master is me so it's easier. I I was not able to make it test Cam: Of course, of course. Yohann Person: by someone else yet. But basically, yeah, I want to make it this way. Like, you finish this quest, it gives you let's say you side with the TIF in my pre in my previous example. You side with the quiz the thief, they will start to give you new quests that are only unlocked if you start to side with the thief. And this quest will lead you to to different to to to go go go up in the rank of the thief guild, and at some point you will discover a bigger truth that that that that the player will be able to interact with. Yeah so the the main quest I want to have mainly seven big big quests like that. And this is to the player to decide if one of these quests is interesting to them and they want to follow on. Yeah. Cam: I have a question about that then. It sounds like it's almost like the story is like a decis a decision tree. So you get to some point and it's like do we side with the thief or do we deliver the cargo? are the quests already pre written and so like a you know, when a when a group goes through it, they just sort of fall through this decision tree or or or is it not pre written? It there's like random elements or elements that change every time the game is played. Yohann Person: So so it's I I like yeah, it's true that it is like a tree where you can have different different embranchment, but there is still a bit more than that, in a way that you can arrive at the same place in the tree with different knowledge of different stuff. Like if you focus on one quest, for example, you will not know the If you focus on one of the main quests, you will not specially know what there is on the other side of this quest. What's the other to take back the the example of the two races that want to fight them to to fight together all the time. If you just side with one from the start and just keep your loyalty to them, you will not know what's happened on the other side. But if you start to do the quest of both of them a bit, You will start to to to to to to have some knowledge and you will start to know when you arrive at this embranchment, you will be like you will not be only like, I side with the good one, and so do do I keep the good one or do I change side? It will be like, I side with this one. None of them are very good, actually. Do I want Cam: Right. Yohann Person: to sign with any of them? Yeah, it's kind of you will have different it will make the the experience very different. and so the goal. the goal with this is to stay to stay to stay in a role game. I will make some trees, that's true, because I think it's the easiest way to do that. But the the the first step will be to have this seven bit quest, but if the game works, I have also many ideas for what can come up next. So there will not be only this seven quests after you finish the game. there's something that we didn't say actually is that Laskuvia is not it's it's a world that is we don't know even the form of the world. We know that there is a void on the ra on the east, the void on the west, that you have the mountain in the north and the infinite sea in the south. But you don't know what there is above the mountain, you don't know what there is in the sea in the south, and you don't know form the world, the void, why the while the void is only on the east and and west and not on the north and south. This is all this kind of stuff that the player can discover during playing the game. Cam: Well that that actually leads me perfectly into the next thing I wanna ask. Can you tell us a little bit about the setting? I know there's different races and it's not like traditional fantasy races. So can you tell us about the the world, the types of characters and the and the sort of plot, the the background story when the game begins? Yohann Person: Sure, I know so I will try to make it as short as possible. And it's always Cam: I've heard this explanation and it was not short, but that's okay. Yohann Person: it's always very difficult. But let's start with it. There is five different races. there is the cadjits that live in the Lemon Islands. The Kajits so they are catmen, and they live in a kingdom. A kingdom where man and woman are completely equal. There is no there is really no no no difference between them except their sex. And so they live in the Lemon Island in the south. They was one of the first race to appear, and they were before controlling most of the part of the no world, but after different war that they lose against the next race, the Saurus, they were pushed back to to this lemon island that they know control. The next race is the saurus. So the psaurus they are carnivore, so they eat only meat. They are big leather with four arms, very known for their fighting skill, and they live a tribal way of life. Meaning that they don't have a family but they have a tribe. When there is a egg that is laid, it's put in a room So that when the when the new sorris arrive, he doesn't know who is his mother, he doesn't know who is his father, he know who is his clan. And after so they they control the biggest city of Lascubia. This city welcomes everybody and they forbid slavery. We're the gadget of slavery actually. The Source, so the big city of the solar are controlled by the five the five biggest clan. of the city. Next you will have the gog. So the gogs they are small creatures so it's a bit difficult to explain, but they they are they are small, they live short life but very intense life. They like to eat, they like to betray, they like to they they they like to play, they they are very and they like gold. They like gold a lot. And they tend to be racist. They tend to be very racist against the other race. Cam: Until that point I was gonna say, It sounds like my kind of people but then you say that and I gotta I gotta I'm glad I waited. I'm so glad I waited. keep talking, keep telling me about the gug. Yohann Person: So, yeah, so the you will find three kinds of gog. You will have the black, the green, and the red. The black tend to live deeper underground. The red live near the eat source. So there is a big volcano in the middle of the known world, and it's where most of them live. And there is the green gogs that are the ones that travel the most. You see them a bit different place and they tend to live near the surface. And so yes, they at first when they first met the Khajit, for example, they start immediately even with discussion, they start immediately war against the Kajit. And it took several hundred of years and some Kajit X diplomacy for that they start to do some commerce together. and they start to and they they start to exchange some goods. But they also don't welcome the one of the species that are from another colour. A red god will not specially like yes Cam: So they're racist against them their own mm. Yeah. Yohann Person: exactly. They are racist against their own. And so a king tends to not live long in this kingdom. They t like I say, the the B trade, the the the the Change Alliance, etc. etcetera. So the yeah, they're I think they are very interesting species to to to have in in a world like that. I try to make it a bit more a bit different to have a to website, to to to really have I I I wanted to have some kind of Cam: you've definitely succeeded at making it not Tolkien style fantasy. It's not hobbits and elves and stuff, Yohann Person: Exactly. Cam: so you've you've definitely succeeded in that. And it is evocative. Yohann Person: Yes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I try to make it a bit a bit different from that. And so and also they so they have the they they are very good to manipulate small objects. So they are very good at all to s everything that is mechanical, etc. And like the dig under the earth, they are the ones that find the magic magic gym that I use for different mechanisms inside the game. And yeah, so they they are very good at doing some commerce with with with zero race, as long as the world is elaborate. next there is end, so there are three men. three men don't have any sex. There is no guy, no woman, and they don't have mouths. They don't have mouse, so they are not able to talk. But however, they can telepathically connect with the p the the other people that they know since quite some time and they are able to transmit some images that are way faster and more accurate way of communication. But yes, they can do that only with the people they know since quite some time. And another specificity of the end is that they don't know how they are born. Nobody knows how they are born. They just suddenly awake Walking in the forest of the ant, and they already know, they already have some knowledge of Lascovia, they already know what are the five rays, they already know that there is this city, big city, etc. etc. And they start knowing all this. It's one of the specific mysteries that can be investigated by by the player. And there is also one specific ant that seems to be in Lascovia since ever. that is huge, extremely powerful. some people say it's a god, some people say it's just was one of the first ants that just keep growing in power with the time. So it's also something that the player can destroy. And the last they are the murphlock. The murflocks they are so they are the human top body. and a big snack tail at the bottom. They are very good at swimming and they are very good at magic. They they they really enjoy magic and they have mostly a pacific mind. They don't like wars, they don't they they they they want to focus on research and magic. they we don't know where they come from. We don't know where they come from. They just suddenly appear. They suddenly appear near the mirror lake. a huge a huge structure that seems magical but that doesn't resonate in magic anymore appe appear at the same time as them and they just arrive in the world. They were the last race to join to join the the world of Glasgow, yeah. And and so people and they are the ones that actually bring magic. Magic was present before their arrival, but it was very ready modeled. But after when they arrive to the school, yeah, they start to be friends with Khajik mostly and they they teach magic to the Khajik and in exchange to the Kajik give them a territory where they can live. for the Merflock, the they say they are equal, but in the reality it's mostly women merflocks that control all the big important position in in the world for them. Cam: Now I've played a little bit of Lascovia and I played a Kajit and another player was a tree person. And I totally like leaned into Puss and Boots Puss and Boots and and was trying to use this tree person as my scratch post and like that I could just ride around on them all the time. but I was wrong 'cause Khajit are are human sized. Isn't that right? Which I guess makes sense. Yohann Person: Yeah, exactly. It's the argument side. Yeah. they can be they can three men can have different size and can be very tall, but it will always be they are not they are not five metator except the special ones that I talk about because so yeah, it will be difficult for a catchy to to to to have this. Cam: Hm. Sorry. That's a silly question and I'll probably cut it out, but I just I think it's funny. Yohann Person: Mm-hmm. Cam: you so you've been adamant in the past, when I've talked to you about it, that La Scuvia is both the setting and the game system. so so what is the what is the decision there? Like why can't I run La Scuvia in Shadow Dark? I I because I want to, that's why I ask. Yohann Person: So I invent my own system because I feel like that the system at least that I play were either too difficult or too simplist. I wanted I wanted the mix between the both. For example, there is only four characteristics in my four main attributes in my game, it's strength, power, dexterity. and constitution and I Cam: And then the the combat stats are all derived from that, right? There's like an evasiveness Yohann Person: Exactly. Cam: and and other things, right? Yep. Yohann Person: Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the all the fight all the the other stats depend of this four stats. And I want to keep it this way because it's simple enough. You can with the dexterity you can create the dodging and the accuracy. With the strength you can do the melee damage. ex with the power you can do the magic and with the constitution you can derivate the armor and the light point. It's always a system that I change a bit with time, even if For now I hope I arrived to something very quite quite stable. But this is to me, this creates exactly what I was saying before. This creates all the characteristics to make a logical work without making it too difficult by buying some some some some other charisma. To me charisma, the way I see it, charisma is the way you play it. You you you play your character, you are the the player, and you if you want to create a charismatic play the character, just create it. Role play it this way. I I don't and then I I'm always a bit confused why there is this charisma stats, because it's not something that that that out. and say Cam: I I kind of agree with that as well. Especially if if the sometimes the dungeon master would like, Well what do you say to convince the dragon to sleep with you? And then the player has this big reason why and then it's like, Okay, well make a charisma roll. It's like, Well, why did you s why did you ask me to say how I was gonna seduce the dragon if you were gonna make me roll the dice in the end anyway? So I I think you're right about that. Charisma is is funny in that way. And we don't treat we Yohann Person: Yeah, exactly. So s so this is Cam: don't treat attacks or other roles like we treat charisma. So charisma like in a D and D style game does just inherently get treated differently 'cause they they want you to explain what you do and Yohann Person: Yeah, so I try to make it more like you you play you you can still roll the deck but there will be no charisma role for that because the charisma is depending on who you play your character. If for example if you if we take your example about having sex with the dragon, if I just want Cam: Sorry, so it's the first thing that came to mind. Yeah. Yohann Person: it's okay but just if you just say I just want to have sex, it's kind of okay the the dragon say no. Cam: Yeah, that's that's a pretty low charisma role. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yohann Person: But exactly, but if you start to be like, it's because I think you have very beautiful eyes and whatever, I don't know what kind of example you can give, but if you give a good reason for it, you need to to let the possibility as to the player to to to to to to to to do this, yes. And I don't think Cam: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yohann Person: it's I think the charismatic depends of this, depends on how you play your character, how you what decision you make to your character take. in the game. more than Cam: I wanna say that that like th there's a a big argument online. It's it's called like rules allied. So the rules of a game like give you the guidelines for the things that the game doesn't want to have other systems to to like deal with. So like if it doesn't have charisma, it's because the game wants you to be the charisma, right? So so this is like rules allied. And I I wonder Yohann Person: Exactly, yeah. Cam: if if you think charisma should it be in the game because you are such a charismatic person that that you couldn't imagine somebody like needing to role-play that. As as like a big shy weirdo. Yohann Person: Don't see too much. Cam: I'm I'm like I get to play somebody who like always says the right thing. thank God. Because in real life I'm always putting my foot in my mouth. So so I I think Yeah. But I Yohann Person: Ha ha ha. Cam: I I don't know. I I can't I I like I think it's interesting that you took charisma out. I I think I like it. And I think I understand why, but but I like on the other hand, yeah, as as somebody without charisma, sometimes I just wanna know that my you know, my character like is that or something. Yohann Person: I I think that everything that can be played by the characters of role play, so there is charisma there is also wise quite what do you say? W wisness? Wisdom, wisdom, wisdom. Cam: Wisdom, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yohann Person: I think wisdom it depends on what character you want to play again. I I want people to to be able to play the characters they want to play. I don't want to impose it to them. Like I say before that the merfolk there are some people that like magic and they like they they don't like to fight, they they mostly like magic and they like science. There is one of my players that said no, me I will play a murflog that is completely dumb, I want to fight everybody. I'm like, Me sure do, sure do and he play Cam: yeah, yeah. Yohann Person: a dump a dumb merfolk that is that is that is fighting and Does it mean he doesn't have magic power? No, he still has the magic power because he's a muffler, but he prefers to punch people and he uses magic power to punch other instead of using it for some science, etcetera. And I feel like it's cool, you know, it's create your own character, create your own. There is there is every species have their own specificity, but it doesn't mean that all of them need to follow it. yeah. Cam: Hmm. Wisdom is another good example because wisdom in D D now is like perception. And and like a wisdom check. So it's like do I see that there's a monster hiding in the shadows or do I like perceive the thing? And I I think it's it's really stupid that like perception in D and D is tied to wisdom 'cause it's like w if I say that I'm looking for a trap, why do I have to roll the dice? Like I'm I'm looking for a a tripwire. Okay, roll a perception check. Well, why? I said I was looking for the tripwire. Why why do gotta roll a check here? So wisdom is another interesting one to cut, I I think, yeah. On the chopping block. Do you have any plans to to like push Lascovia forward, to try and publish it, to try and get art for it? What is what is the future of Lascovia look like? Is it is it just you running it or do you want to try and share it with with more people? Yohann Person: No, I obviously want to share it with more people at some point, but when the game is ready. I don't want I don't want to just like I say there is there is so like a the universe and the system exist but I don't want to let the game master just Okay, you have the you have the basic universe, you have the you have the you have the different role. It works, okay cool, but what do I do now? Why might character why why the why the player should do this quest or another because there is not yet this grand final I wanted to to to have this grand final and until I didn't write a specific description of every town and of every main character that you can have I don't want to publish it. When I will have in when I will finish that yeah, this is the moment where I will start to publish. And yeah, there is still a lot to do, but yeah, I can confidently say that I did more than half already and I just need to keep my motivation up to keep working on it. And I wish yeah, I wish one day to to be able to publish it and hopefully hopefully in this next four four to five years, let's say. Yeah. Cam: Well I I certainly don't mean to push you, you know, it's it's You've like made a point that it is your creative thing and it's like the a creative project that you feel is is part of you and you're very close to it. It's like one thing that you've been able to continue working at. So I don't I don't want to say like give it to us, you're on, you know, you're done with it and and now it's time for us to change it. So I'm not trying to take it from you, but I it it's just like I said, it's so interesting and and I don't I don't know I don't think I know anybody personally that's like making their own system. So I think it's pretty pretty interesting. what about what about like a a starter adventure that's just one quest? That like is that something you could do in a in a short Yohann Person: short quest. you mean short quest like I did during the festival? Yeah. Cam: Yeah, yeah. Could could you could you publish like the teapop game so that people can try that at home? Yohann Person: Sure, yeah, no, no, yeah, completely. Yeah, yeah. This is so it's actually a very good point. I could do a quick starter on this little island Cam: Yeah, quick start adventure. That's that's right. Yohann Person: because actually the the one that I did I tip up, I think is pretty good for that because it's happened in the archilapago of the end of the world. That is a very just basically some small islands that are completely outside of the other civilization, etc. So that's something that's completely doable, yes, to be able to have this few quests possible to play. Yeah, actually it's a good idea. I will think about it for sure. Cam: yeah, I I I look forward to it, man, 'cause I've got to play Lascovie, I think, twice. And I yeah, I really enjoyed it and want to see more, but and a as as like a I like DMing. I I I'm I'm sick. I have a a hard time just playing. I want to see it. I want to read all the secrets and see how the game works. So maybe that's that's Yohann Person: Okay. Cam: my fault. I had something else to say. I forget what it was all of a sudden. let me think for a second. What was it? Yohann Person: Sure. But yeah, like during you think about I I there is something also that I didn't talk about my game system that I think is the core of it actually, it's the way I've Cam: yeah, please, please, yeah. Yohann Person: built it. It's that I don't I like to make small quests that are linked together, like you said, but I want my quest to stay small quest, kind of the way we do that Shadow Dark can do actually. but I also like very much the way of you have the choice between yours quests. You I never arrive in a session and say, player, today we will play this quest. Like like for example we often do in in Call of Cthulhu. In Call of Cthulhu it's very rare that you let the possibility to your player to choose between this quest or this other quest. There is it's more like, today you will have this quest that's coming to you and most of the time you are trapped, you have to do it. Cam: Mm, yeah, yeah. Yohann Person: in in Lastonia I want to be able to to okay you are now in town and now you have different quests. You have these guys that need help because because he have trouble he have trouble with with this animals that keep escaping, you have this quest about a village that asks for help, and you have this quest of the the noble of a sound the the son of a noble. That disappear in this area. Basically, what do you want to do? And so this is where it's really the there will be this alignment that became important. Do you want to be closer to the noble? Perhaps do this quest. Do you want to be closer to the low people? Try perhaps to check investigating what's happened with with the with the animal of these farmers that keep escaping, etc. etc. And the player will build the the the their character and build their knowledge depending on this quest that they that they achieve. And it's funny because I have different groups so that play that play in parallel and they go on different quests completely. And it's another funny thing is that there is one group that starts pure evil and they they get they get so they get some the after they get a reward on the head in the some territory and they start little bit by little to stop being too evil and where my other group that was pure pure good that start little little little bit to go more evil to make a bit more money and so this is where I see that actually Cam: Hmm. Yohann Person: my game system's kind of yeah by itself balance by itself. Everybody's turned to go to Cam: guides people to to like moral gray zones. Yohann Person: Yeah. To be more natural by themselves to keep to keep yeah, yeah. Cam: So my question was, and that you reminded me of it actually, it sounds like your quests are sort of deterministic. So it's like you gotta go do this thing for this person and then like this thing could happen. Do you do you introduce randomness into the game? Are there random tables or like if if my group does this quest and another group does this quest and we sort of pick the same if we both decide to join the thief, say on like on the road when we're getting robbed, does does it play out any differently? Like is the outcome any different? Is there randomness injected into the game somewhere? Yohann Person: I know so there is some randomness but not much. not much. There is some randomness in the fight, there is some randomness in the when you in the test, if you can if you can depend but it's mostly all this to me is mostly role gaming and role gaming role playing. Role playing is not something that I want to make too random at least. there is some intimidation check, but this where you will use your strengths actually mostly to to try to intimidate or etc. But it will mostly depend on the way you roleplay it. If you roleplay it well, but there is no test needed. You do just succeed basically. And so it will depend on what they want to do. But there is the for example, my two group did this quest of the tip that I was talking about, and both of them went with the tip actually. But one of them went a bit deeper inside this story and the other group missed a part of it. And so depending yeah, I try to always not always, no it's not true, it's not always, but sometime in some quest there is always a hidden hidden thing, and after it's the player to try to to investigate it more or to just pass to the next. Yep. Cam: Okay, so there's there's always like levels of stuff. So the maybe the the way that the story plays out differently is just character decision. well Johanna I'm I'm running out of time here. So so I gotta ask, is there any place where we can learn more about Lescuvia or is there any time maybe i i if somebody wants to talk to you about it, like is there a w a way to reach you or anything? Yohann Person: sure, sure, sure, sure. But so the the best Cam: Yeah, maybe that's Yohann Person: way so there is so there is actually a Discord channel. There is a Discord channel about Las Juvia that is not very active, that I would love my player to be more active on them, but they turn to speak more in a group. Cam: I can link it in the show, so if anybody wants to learn more about Lascubia they can join your Discord. Yeah, that would be that would be we could do that, yeah. Yohann Person: Exactly. So they can join the Discord and after if there is if there is enough people I would I mean we we will be able to to to to create a game fan again organise game with you and with whoever wants on in Nan Gang. So at my place and so everybody's welcome. Cam: So th this is this is one bottleneck in the in the like playtesting of this game. Like you are the only person running it and you really only run it in person, is that right? Yohann Person: No, not only in person. I also do it online. Cam: okay. Yohann Person: For example, it's everything is written Cam: There we go. There we go. Yohann Person: in French for the moment. This will be another Cam: huh. Alor, yeah. Yohann Person: because yeah, so everything is not written in French, but thanks to thanks to AI it's very easy to translate all this quite Cam: Sure, sure. Yohann Person: fast. but yeah, I play The two main groups that I play with, they are from France and I play on Discord, so usually in the weekend. Cam: Okay. Yohann Person: So it's also possible to play during the week, in the evening, if some people feel like it and don't have time. Cam: That's that's good to know. That's good to know. Yohann Person: As long as we have enough people, I can organize a table. And yes, the the more table I have, the better it is, I think. So everybody's welcome. Come play it. Cam: I I wanna say in our I'll put the word out there, in our Shadow Dark game you really like that the blue booking. So like in between sessions your your characters write journals and maybe you go to the to the blacksmith and talk to the blacksmith. Is this something that you encourage in Laskuvia at all? Yohann Person: Yes, I encourage it in Las Povia to to to have this I have actually one of my players that just described every story. So not not not the way I can do it in in Shadow Duck, but he still have on on his character sheet you can see all the detail of who's his character feel during the different quests and what he did, why he did it, etc. And this is something that encouraged a lot because I want I I want Lascovia to be about role playing. Role playing, finding your way and and yeah, finding the way of your character and what you want to achieve. And depending on what the works through at him, I want the player to take these decisions that will in return change the world that's a live in. Cam: I like that. I like that. Well look I got two more questions for you and then I I gotta get back to work. So number one, do you have any books, movies or video games that you recommend or you say Lascovia is totally influenced by this or you think everybody should read? Do you have any any recommendations? Yohann Person: Well that's a big question. such my game is clearly inspired from all the universe that I enjoy. this this is from I I I didn't take it from one place. I get inspiration from so many places that Cam: Of course, yeah. Yohann Person: it's difficult to to to choose one. Cam: Yeah. Yeah. Well if you ever look in the back of the D and D books, it there's always the Appendix N, I think, and it's like all the books that they liked and all the books they read when they wrote D and D. So that's sort of what I'm looking for. Do you have a anything that fits in that appendix in? It is it is a big question, I agree. Yohann Person: Yeah, no, just like that. I mean there is the obvious Lord of the Ring that I super enjoy and that I think it's it's it's part of it, but it's it's not something that I put much to be in this world because I wanted to get away, actually. It's it's both in inspiration because there is the ant that that that are racing my world, but they are completely different from the ant of Lord of the Ring. But I perhaps in take inspiration on Lord of the Ring of the God. on the god. On the god stuff, I think it's something that not everybody except the the fan of the of the universe of Tolkien know. But they wish the god have a big huge influence in Lord of the Ring actually. And and in I try to copy a bit from that I will say I it's not a copy, it's but it's a big inspiration from it. I wanted to have some god I wanted them to be super important, but I don't want them to be like that they don't specially want to to to to to change. They don't want to change the world. They want the human find the human there is no human in my world, but they want the the creation to follow what they what they what they they should be doing. Yeah. They create them and so this is this is kind of an Cam: I wanna say this sounds like a very French god to me, a very like like li liber libertarian kind of god. They're just like, I made everything and now you're free. Is that is that is that accurate to say that? Yeah. Yohann Person: Yeah, something like that, yeah, yeah. And but I also wanted to then I also wanted the God to be imperfect and that it's something that is not so much div, no it is actually because but yeah, fine, yeah, I wanted the god to be imperfect as well. That sometimes even their creation can get out of hand and there is specifically one god that is a god that everybody loves. even if it's not a good it's a god of suffering and something like that. But actually he takes the the the the the pain of people and make it his own. But he did that Cam: That's interesting. Yohann Person: so much he did that so much that from his nightmare he give birth to another god that is that that should not have been created, that should not have been possible. And this god is kind of hunt by the other god as well, and is forbidden on Vasculia to pray him, and for sure some people will pray him. Cam: I I really like that backstory. That's quite fascinating. I I think that's that's good that's good world building. and my other question, my last question is what what are you playing these days? Are you playing any tabletop games, running games? What are playing? Yohann Person: I play Shadow Dark Shadow Dark with you, mostly yeah. And I Cam: Yeah. And you run less Guvia on the weekends, yeah. Yohann Person: I run Lascuria as well when when I have time, when we find time with the people from France. And also some people there is also some group in Taiwan that play Lascovia. A group of different people that actually don't know world gaming. I introduced them to world gaming with Lascovia. So their first game was Lascovia. Cam: yeah. nice, nice. Yohann Person: And they quite enjoy it. it's difficult to find time to to to bring back together the table, if but yeah. Cam: That I'm sorry, that's like a hard sell to me. It's like you go I guess these are people from your work and you say, like, Hey, do you wanna come to my house this weekend and roll dice? and they're like, Well we don't know what you're talking about And you're like, Yeah, you know, come play this game that I invented. It it just seems like a hard sell, I imagine. So I I think that's it's good that you got playing, Yohann Person: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, Cam: yeah. Yeah. Yohann Person: yeah, yeah. It's like that it's work. And they all love it and they sometimes ask me to to to to to play it again, but it's yeah, yeah, it's when you don't make it a bit more a priority to play role games, sometimes it's a bit difficult to bring everybody at the table. Yeah. Cam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's I always hear it said that's the the big the big bad evil guy of playing D and D is like making the schedule happen or whatever, but it is it is hard to do. Yohann Person: Yeah, but yeah, but it's it's it still happened from time to time. I say that I success to play with them like two, two, three, three, three, four times a year or something like that. Yeah. But I Cam: That's pretty good. Yohann Person: think that the more we play the better it is, even if you need to consider that I'm building the world at the same time so I cannot play every week. Cam: Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah. Laying down the track as the train goes over it. Yohann Person: Yes, there is already the beginner step. The beginner step are here, they exist, but if you take another route from my two main other groups, at some point I will have to I will have to build this road. Yeah. Cam: Well, like I said, thank you so much for coming on, Young. I really gotta get going. But it's been a a pleasure talking to you and learning more about Lascuvia. And I can't wait to play some more of it. so yeah. Send me that Discord link and if anybody hears this and wants to join, the Discord link will be included in the show notes and everything. Thank you. see you next time. Bye bye. Yohann Person: thank you for inviting me, Cal. See you next time. Cam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. See ya. Well, I want to thank Yohann one more time for coming out and talking about Laskuvia. You know, one thing that we kept getting wrong in that episode, we kept calling it the Game Master, the Dungeon Master. But I think in secret, Yohann told me that in his game, the person that runs the game is called the Garçon d'oubliette Or maybe I made that up. Like, subscribe on your favorite podcast app. And I keep on listening to TPOD. See you later. Bye bye.