Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / What It's Actually Like To Work As A Female Porn Star + What We Can Learn From It: with Candace Horbacz (Eva Lovia)

Transcript

What It's Actually Like To Work As A Female Porn Star + What We Can Learn From It: with Candace Horbacz (Eva Lovia) · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. For most of us, our sex
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: lives are private, deeply personal. But for adult film stars,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: their sex lives are the complete opposite of that. Sex
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: is a huge part of their work. It's completely public
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and often stigmatized, and yet forty million US adults say
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: they regularly watch porn. The pornography industry generates twelve billion
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: dollars in annual revenue. To put that into perspective, that's
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: about the same as the revenue of the NFL, or
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: larger than the combined annual revenues of NBC, ABC and CBS.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Porn is more accessible than ever. Today we're talking to
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: one of the most successful adult film stars of all time,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Candace Whorback. Her film name is Eva Lavilla, and she
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: has over a decade of experience in the porn industry. Today,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I'm asking Candace everything you and I have ever wanted
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to know about porn, but just have never had the
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: opportunity to ask. This is one of my favorite interviews
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: to date. Candace is super intellectual, heartfelt, curious, and is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: such an unprescriptive view of sex. I learned a lot
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: from her, and I'm excited for you to learn from
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: her too. So, Candace, where did you grow up?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: So?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I was born in LA and then my parents split,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: so I did like half La half New York, back
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: and forth for a while. So I guess I don't
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: really feel committed to one place. And I've been in
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the South.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: And North Carolina South Carolina.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: For twelve years and which is like the longest I've
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: ever been anywhere. So I say that I'm Southern now,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: even though like that might be up for like contestment,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: but I like I would identify more with that region.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I think you do, Yeah.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: What about it? Do you identify with? I?
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Just like, at least where I live, it's like very
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: laid back.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Everyone kind of knows everyone, Like every store we go into,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: everyone knows like me and my husband and my family,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: and it's that small town like do you want to
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: borrow sugar kind of thing, which I just love. So
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: I like being able to visit high energy places like
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: a city and travel and like get that energy, but
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: then like go relax and decompressed when you're done.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: How would people have described you in high school? Oh?
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Man, I would depend on a group, I guess you asked.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: I was definitely really shy, I really introverted. I had
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: just two really good girlfriends a steady boyfriend throughout, and
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: that was kind of my social life. I moved around
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: a ton, so that made it hard, I think to
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: kind of find your core group. And then I think
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: being raised on both coasts, you don't really fit in,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: which I think has served me now. But when you're
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: growing up, like that's all you want to do is fit,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: and so when you don't, it can be really painful.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: When you say it it served you, now, what do
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you mean?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So?
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I guess like one of my missions or maybe like
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: how I try to use my voice now is to
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: just get people to be okay with being an outlier.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Or an individual.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: And it's like not necessarily like just toe the line
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: or fall into like the bucket that you're supposed to
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: and that that can be a beautiful thing and that's
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: what makes you who you are. And I don't know,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: like to kind of like appreciate those rough edges a
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: little bit.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Where did your rough edges come from cause I think
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: to want to send that message to other people must
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: mean that you felt like an outlier.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: Oh totally yeah, for most of my growing up, So
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I guess part of it. When I was growing up,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: I looked a lot more Asian than I do now,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Like I kind of like grew into.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: How I look.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: But I had really dark hair, obviously this is colored
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: my arles come out, my eyes were a little bit
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: more almond shaped, and when I moved to New York,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I was like the only one.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: That looked Asian at all.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: I actually haven't got it in California a lot too,
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: but like the schools that we were in were not
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: predominantly Asian. So I'd have kids like doing like the
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: eye thing to me or making fun of my freckles.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: It was always like how my appearance was getting picked on.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: So I would eat lunch with the nurse or like
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: avoid lunchtime at all because I just don't want to
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: deal with the kids. So I mean, that definitely has
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: an effect on you and how you perceive yourself. So
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: I would say that was a major role in shaping me.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: And again it's like not falling into a bucket because
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: like you want to just blend in a lot because.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: You don't know who you were at those young ages.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You started in porn when you were twenty two, Yes,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and you said that's actually late. I didn't know that.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an old lady.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Tell me what that first experience is, like, like how
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: did you get into the industry?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: So I started with like just camming, and it was
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: all implied, so I would like hide all my bits,
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: like it wasn't actually showing anything.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It was like just teasing.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: And then I didn't have the patience for camming because
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: you have to like camming like webcamming. Okay, yeah, like
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: there's another user on the other end, like if you're
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: what are the sites called, like streammate and stuff like that.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: You don't necessarily see the other person, but they see you,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: but it's very much an exchange, so like they'll pay
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: you to do something. And I just didn't like that,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: Like it wasn't enjoyable for me. So it's like I
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: want to do movies. I don't do big movies. I
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: don't know how I do them. I'm to like find
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: a site that I know that I think looks cool
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and looks fun and reach out to them, and I
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: was like.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Do you audition? Like how does this work?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I just want to start with girls because I was
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: too nervous to do anything hardcore starting off. And they're like, no,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: just like send us a couple of photos so we know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: like what you look like and we'll let you know.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So I did that and then they flew me to
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Miami and I did a few scenes and the rest
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: is history.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And you felt like after those first few scenes, you
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: were comfortable, you enjoyed the experience, and you wanted to
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: keep moving in the end.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say so.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: My first scene was really rough, like I was like
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: shaking like a leaf.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I'd never been with the woman.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Before, like I'd made out the girl, but like nothing
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: beyond that, Like I don't know what I'm doing. I've
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: never obviously like had sex in front of a camera
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: with anybody. I didn't know how many people were gonna
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: be there, what the set was going to be, like nothing.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: I was going and blind.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: And I had reached out to the girl that I
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: was shooting with because I had watched her for a while,
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: just like social media and whatever, Look, do you have
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: many tips?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Like what like how can I make with this a
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: good scene, just like ghosted me. Didn't want to help.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: It was kind of cold to me the whole.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Time, and I was like, this is not making me
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: feel like I'm going to be a success today. So
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: the first one was a little bit challenging, but I
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: think it's like anything else, like you start to get
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: a little bit more comfortable as things become more predictable,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: and then you feel like there's like less uncertainty. So
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: after that, I was like, this is what I want
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: to do. I don't know where it's gonna go yet.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't have a lot of I guess foresight, like
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I didn't know everything I was getting myself into, but
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I just like knew that's.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Where I was supposed to be.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So leading up to this, how did you know you
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to get into porn.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: It's gonna sound crazy, but like from a super young age,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: like super super young age, I just recognized in certain
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: women like Pamela Anderson or carmenal elector, like there was
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: something about these women that kind of owned their sexuality
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: and it was like a superpower. And I was like,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: I want to learn how to.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Use that superpower.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: Like that just seems it just seems empowering and it
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: seems strong, and it just it sparked by curiosity. So
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: obviously at a young age you don't really know what
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: that all entails. And as you get older, you're like, okay,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: there's a little it's a little more nitty and gritty
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: than just like being pretty on a camera. But yeah,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: it was just something I'd always been fascinated with, and
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: it took me leaving a really long term relationship to
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: get comfortable with the idea of taking charge of my sexuality.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Like that was mine to do with what I wanted.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And I think when I made that decision.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Like that first one to just like break up with that,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: guys like I'm gonna go follow.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Like me and see where that leads.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: How did you shed all of like the stereotypes and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: sort of like social stigma that comes along with that.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever can.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: It's like no, And it's kind of unfortunate because, as
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: we said earlier, like I got in.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Old understand this, but like under eighteen is illegal?
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: No, yes, soween eighteen and twenty two, Yeah, yeah, eighteen,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: like eighteen nineteen.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: A lot happens there, unfortunately, like a lot of them,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: it's like a year and in a year out and
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: those situations, it's like, you make this decision when you're
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: so young, and you don't necessarily know like the full
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: weight of that decision and like the gravity socially, but
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you can't scrub it from the Internet's there forever, and unfortunately,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: certain people are going.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: To let that one thing define you.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Forever, even if you evolve past it and you have
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: all this evidence that you are no longer the same person,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: which hopefully everyone is different from eighteen to where they
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: are today, right, but we just don't allow that change
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: for certain people. I think so, Yeah, I think it's
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: still a struggle, and I think it's not something I
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: actively try to do. It's just I show up how
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: I am and then hopefully that presents itself in such
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: a way that it challenges your preconceptions of what someone
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: in that industry is.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: How did you go about telling people in your life?
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Oh boy?
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: So unfortunately this happens a lot. My mom found out
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: because someone had sent her a video I know, and
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: it's very common that like that's how you're out.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: So she was not happy and she's like, what are
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: you doing? What is this are you lesbian?
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I'm just filming with girls and I'm
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: safe and I'm happy and I wanted to do this,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: and it was like a very long time for her
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: to kind of come to accept that. I still think
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: obviously she would probably pick a different path for me,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: but it's no longer a fight. My grandmother was actually
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the sweetest. So she's like this very old, traditional Japanese woman.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And the way she found out is I went to
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: order her.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Something off of Amazon and I ordered it under my
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: stage name.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: By mistakes, I had two accounts, so she googled it
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: and I didn't even know she knew how to google.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: And she called me and she's like, I just want
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: to make sure that you're happy and then sure safe
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: and I love you.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: And I was like, how is.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: This traditional Asian woman taking it better than most people?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Do? You?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Guys learn a lot from this woman.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: So she was wonderful about it, and everyone else, if
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: they weren't super close to me, I like lied, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: then that would build up a lot of anxiety because
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I wasn't being who I actually was. But I found
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: that my existence made people uncomfortable, and then that made
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: me uncomfortable, so I just tried to avoid any discomfort
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: on both parties. So I try to concoct like something
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: like I'm a student where I waitress or I'm a
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: stay at home mom.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And then I.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Realized, like, that's not my responsibility to navigate other people's
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: reactions or emotions, and I'm proud of the work that
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I've done, so I'm just gonna be mean and then
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: you can react however you would.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Like to react.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: You mentioned your stage name, Yes, how did you come
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: up with Evil of the ye?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Lots of tequille, lots of tequila?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I loved you Belongoria, so we were trying to like
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: make a play on that, and one of my girlfriends
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: is like, long Lovia instead of like that's terrible.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So I was like, well, what if we make it
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: like Lovia?
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: And then I wanted something that didn't exist so I
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: could trademarket, so that was like the most important thing.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: So I had like create a name, which was weird
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: to do, and that was available, so I was like,
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: we're going to just go with this and see but
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: yeah no.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's Lovia.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: It's Lovia. Yeah, okay, perfect. You've parlayed your fame into
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: an empire. You're doing so much. Now I want to
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: be We're going to get into everything that you're doing.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: What importann would you say that you're specifically known for?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: That's very kind of you.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I would say it's hard because, like you'd have to
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: ask probably other people. And I was always like even
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: still a little bit more isolated than a lot of
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: other women in the industry, Like I didn't have big
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: groups of friends.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I wasn't doing that whole scene.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: But I would say the stuff that got around to me,
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: which is never like the best stuff would be that.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I was a diva or difficult to work with.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: But all of those I actually take as a badge
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: of honor because like the reason that those things were
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: spread was because I was constantly saying no. And I
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people don't realize you can say
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: that and it's totally justified.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And this was even me in the beginning.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: You would have this expectation that if you showed up,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: you had to just do whatever they told you to do.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: But it's your body and then that's going to be
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: out there on the internet forever, so you have to
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: be okay with it. And if you're not you absolutely
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: can say no. So those are probably like the main
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: ones that I at least heard of at twenty two.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I think, regardless of whatever industry you're in, a lot
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: of girls and women have a hard time saying no
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: in general, Like how are you so comfortable with no?
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: So the tends to actually be like more of like
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a sex based thing. So men tend to be more
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: disagreeable and women tend to be more agreeable for some
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: evolutionary purpose.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And I have a lot.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Of what would be categorized as like masculine tendencies, so
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: like being a little bit more brays of being more disagreeable,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: And I think a lot of that, Like growing up
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: wasn't the easiest, Like we had some abuse in the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: household and my parents split at an early age, I moved,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: I got bullied a ton, so I kind of had
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: to develop this callous and again, like it's one of
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: those things that in the moment it sucks because no
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: one wants their child to grow up that way, But
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: as an adult it can serve you if you know
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: how to do it properly, like not use it or
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: use it like a weapon instead of like it having
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: like a negative effect like you not being soft enough
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: to have relationships but hard enough to protect yourself, if
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: that makes sense.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's knowing your own boundaries, right. Yeah, it's it's
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: hard to vocalize it though, So I'm pretty impressed that
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: at a young age you were able to especially because,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: like I can't imagine, on set, there's probably the producers, directors,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of older men.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a lot of women on set unless
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: you're talent.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that. But I took
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a class in college and we had a three week
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: course on porn. I learned so much.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: That's so interesting.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really cool because it was gender studies class.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And one of the things we talked about was when
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: asked why women appeared in X rated media, there were
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: four top reasons, money, flexible hours, perceived glamour of movie work,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and because they enjoy sex more than other women. What
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: would you say was your reason?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: It definitely wasn't money, because when I first got in,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I was actually making more at my bartending job.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: No swhere, so I would go to.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: And that helped me so much because I would show
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: up to set and they would say this is your rate,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: and I'm like I make.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: More than that in a shift.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to do that, And then the other
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: girls would turn around look at me, and they're like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? But I went to school in
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Myrtle Beach, so it's a tourist town, and like, if
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: you're in service industry, you make a lot of money.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And I worked at like a hooter, so I mean
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: you just you make a lot on tips and they'd
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: be like, well this is the rate, and well I'm
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: not doing that and already bought my tickets.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Like what are we going to do about this?
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: So I had a lot more power to negotiate that way,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: and then it kind of like developed like my baseline
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: as far as like my value or my perceived value.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: So definitely wasn't money. I would say, there is like
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: a romanticized idea of what we have about shooting, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: sometimes it is cool, like when you're doing like these
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: huge big budget films like that's awesome. I did a
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: set with the stunt stunt coordinators for the Power Rangers,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: like that's awesome. I had a great time. So I
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: wouldn't say like that perceived value is definitely there for that,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: and that was part of it, but again, it was
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: kind of like me wanting to hone that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Superpower, which was sexuality.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: And I wouldn't say that I enjoyed sex more than
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: more other women because I still was very shy and
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: like trying to figure out what I wanted. But I
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: think that curiosity was a driving force as well as like,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: well what.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Do I like, like who is this sexual being?
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Right, and then trying to craft that and I just
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: did it in a public light and where most people
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: try to.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Like find out who that is behind closed doors.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: How long did it take to find that out? And
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: how did you find it? Was it just doing things
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that maybe you were like that's not for me that
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: like how did that go?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I think you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Learn a lot by being with other people, even just
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: in regular relationships, right, Like you can bounce energy off
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: of each other and like okay, I'm like that I
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: like this person, I don't like that person. And I
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: think that's the same when you have sex. So there
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: is an energy exchange and you learn a lot about
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: yourself that way. If you're just practicing by yourself, you
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: don't have as much feedback, I think, so I think
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: it was like a very slow process.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: It was just okay, I like that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I don't like that, this feels authentic, this feels a
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: little weird and scary.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. And then just like
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: allowing the time, like not trying to do things for
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: clicks and views and to be the.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Craziest performer because I was kind of like a pretty performer.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: I didn't do any extreme max but that's just not
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: what I'm into. So I think it was just like
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: listening to my body and like my voice as to
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: what was going to feel good or was sparked a curiosity.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So in film in Hollywood, there's projects that people do
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: for like almost no money because they're like, I want
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to work with Steven Spielberg. Is it the same important
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Like is there a project that you have?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Oh man?
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I would say for some people that's probably the case,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: like whether it's like the type of movie if they're
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: doing a parody A lot of people like those, or
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: if like there's maybe a performer that they really want
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: to especially if you're like new and coming up and
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: you maybe want to have that kind of views of
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: working with someone of like a certain esteem. For me,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: mine was I really wanted to get a contract. I
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: wanted to work with a contracted company and do like
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: the big pictures which I spent most of my career doing,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: because to me, like that was the.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Whole reason I got in.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do the costumes and the acting and
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: travel and have like that full experience. I didn't want
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: to just go have one guy with a handicam.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: That's not what I want.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And for some people that is, and that's fine, but
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: that wasn't what I set out for.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Do you watch porn now? Because like you know how
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: it's made, it must be so strange you can't.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I can't, like if I do, like if I have
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: a rare moment where I need something to like kind
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: of get me where I need to be, Like no
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: one can have a face, so you can't have any
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah that or it's just like it makes it too
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: fake for me for some reason, Like if I just
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: see their bodies then I can feel like maybe it's real.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: I can tell myself that lie even though I know
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: how the sausage is made.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like no faces.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I used to study camera. That's really funny. How do
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you prepare for a film like the Night? Did you
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: have like a routine? Did you like te me for
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: an interview. I'm like, okay, spray, tan, manicure, like what else?
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: So you do all of those things and then like
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: a regular scene, that's probably it, right, is just like
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: making sure that you feel sexy in your body and
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: that you.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Know who is going to show up on set.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: For me, like I had a guest list, so I
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: knew it was like one of those guys women.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't really mind because I think it's just easier
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: to be more flexible there.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: But for do you have a no list?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Not.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't very long, but that's why I
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: just want the yes for the dudes. So like if
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: you weren't there, just don't ask me. And then the
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: no list, we just select female performers that for whatever reason,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: it just was not going to produce a good scene.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: But if you at towards the end of my career,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I did like this whole anal showcase and getting ready.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: For that is like a whole other thing. Like you're
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: starving yourself for like two.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Days and like it's very physically demanding.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I was like, how do people do this in real life?
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Because there's no way that they're putting them in all
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: of this prep work, because then you lose all the
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: romance and like the spontaneity of it, but fulfillment was necessary,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: So that was really really difficult.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how much direction do you get on set?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So it depends on who you're working with.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Some people just want to let you have natural chemistry
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: and just do what you want, And those have always
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: been my favorite scenes because like that's the most organic
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: and I feel like it translates the best to camera.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: And then when you work for these larger corporations, they
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: send you almost like mood boards and like specific shots
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: that you have to get while having sex, so not
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: even just like a photo.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: But in video.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: And then for me, that's really difficult because you might
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: be in the flow with someone, which might sound crazy
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: like you're the flow with sex, but we've all been there,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: just maybe not on camera. So you might be in
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: the flow and like have this great moment and then
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: you're like, shoot, I have to do this really awkward
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: position that no one would ever do in real sex,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: and then that can kind of break it up a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: little bit. So towards the end of my mainstream career,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I stopped doing that and then started working with like
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: smaller companies that were just like a lot more free flowing.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because you wanted the big companies and when
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: you got there you were like, no, this isn't for me.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have this idea, right.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I think we do that with a lot of things,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: as we romanticize things, and then once we actually are
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: on the ground.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: You're like, this isn't exactly what I thought it was.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: How often are you actually attracted to the person that
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you're in see with?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: So with the guys, I was pretty selective as to
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: who I picked, but it wasn't just off of looks.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: It was like how professional they were. I would ask
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: for recommendations from girls that I trusted, that kind of stuff.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: But I think you learn to find other things attractive
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: in other than just looks necessarily. So if there's someone here,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: like I would never date that person in real life,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe he's really kind, right, and I can appreciate
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: that in that moment and in that environment. And it's
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: not like I'm looking for a partner or a husband
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: or anything like that. Like you're like, what you're looking
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: for credential wise is very different. So I think it's
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: like finding appreciation and attraction for other qualities, which I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: think helps out in the real world because this fades
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: and like nothing is permanent, We're all going to look
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: like little raisins at the end of it. So if
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: you can find how to maintain attraction to somebody without
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: their looks.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: I think that's really powerful.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Did that cross over into your dating life?
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: So I kind of dated the same guy throughout and
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: I've always been physically attracted to him, But I think
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: it made me less vain than myself, like less gripping
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: onto this fleeting thing that is youth and like come
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: to some kind of acceptance with maturing and aging.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: The guy that you were dating is that you're now husband. Okay,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: how does this relationship start? And then how do you like,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: how does this all work when you're in the adult
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: entertainment industry.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: So we met as I was about to do my
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: first scene and right before yeah, yeah, yeah, like probably
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: a couple months before, Like right before.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Did you tell him you were thinking about that? Yeah?
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I was an open book and he was like, I
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: want to know where you're going so you're safe, like
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: check in with me, that kind of thing.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: But it was girl girls to I think.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Most guys are a little bit more open to that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: The boygirl switch was definitely a different conversation. It's interesting
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: if you talk to him and he doesn't feel like
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: he's being pressed or anything, he'll be like, I never
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: thought I was gonna get married. I never thought I
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: was gonna have kids. I never thought I was gonna
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: be in a steady relationship. Because the thing that he
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: wanted a partner, he's like, it doesn't exist. I'd have
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: to marry a porn star. That's like what he told
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: himself from a young age.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So it sounds.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: What what do you mean, what if you don't mind sharing?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: No?
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: So I would say, just like having an atypical relationship, right,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: so not having this prefabricated set of rules without question.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: So it's not to say.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Our relationship hasn't gone through seasons, because it absolutely has.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Like we've had an open relationship and then we've got
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: accidental monogamy and now we have a child.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: So I think our relationship has.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Constantly been evolving and we're always checking in with each other,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: like what do you want?
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: What you need?
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: But most people that's not that was never on the table,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: at least back then.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Starting to be a little bit more common as far
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: as consciously curating your relationship. It doesn't mean it has
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: to be open, but just what are our boundaries and
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: like what do we need from one one another? It
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: used to kind of just be standard. So with that,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: He's like, if I found this create like a person
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: that I could create in my mind, it would be
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: someone who is open to a creative relationship.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so how do you feel about the openness? Like
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: we're I don't know where you stand now, but at
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: one point when you were open, did it feel like
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you had to be because of your job?
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: That's why it started, because I want it to be fair.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: I saw a lot of women that and it never worked.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: So they would say, well, I'm just doing it for work,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: so you need to be okay with it. And I
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: just think that that's like you're living with a tyrant.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Like that's not a relationship.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: It's not a partnership, Like you're treating your partner like
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: a kid.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So everything is up for negotiation and it should be.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: And just because it's a difficult, difficult conversation doesn't mean
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't have it. So I think a lot of
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: the times we avoid those uncomfortable situations and we're like,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: this is just the way that it is. These are
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: my rules because you're scared to be vulnerable.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: So I didn't want to do that.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I loved this person so much, and I'm like, I
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: want to have the best chance at a successful relationship.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So that's me jumping into.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: The deep end knowing I'm a jealous person, knowing that
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be insecure about this and seeing what happens.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: So where we're at now, it's it was so scary,
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: but I think that's where you learn the most about yourself.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And then that's like the most honest feedback for your relationship.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Like your feedback isn't going to happen in a padded
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: room with like no temptations.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It's not real, Like you have to have it tested
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to know what it is.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we tested it for sure, and we're very happy,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: and you know, we've been together for over a decade.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: But I would say now, like we're monogamous, but if
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: something were to happen, it wouldn't be the end of
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: our family, which I don't think a lot of people
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: can say so to me, that's like so like fortifying
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: and it makes me feel so secure and solid. And
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: it's not to say I would be okay with it,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: because I don't know, but it's to say I'm not
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: going to have such a response that my kid has
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to go to two homes or same for him, Like
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: I know he's the same way, Like if I were
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: to do something, he probably wouldn't be thrilled.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: It would be a conversation and be like, how do
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: we heal and fix this? It wouldn't be like we're done.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: When you say the first thing you brought up was
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: my kid has to go to two homes, I can't
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: help but think some of that comes from like you
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: had to go to two home?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Sure was it?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Trump? It was traumatic for you?
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And I mean.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: No kid wants to not have their parents together. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: even I know this is like a controversial thing to
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: say these days because we all want to talk about
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: conscious uncoupling and we want to make that sound magical.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: But the truth is is that there are severe.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: Consequences to all children of divorce, like their rates for
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: homelessness and drug abuse and dropping out, Like these are
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: very real consequences that you can look up, like the
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: statistics are there and It doesn't mean that that's going
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: to happen, but it's increased. So kids need stability and
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: they need to be able to feel that predictable schedule.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: And you throw a wrench in that when all of
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: a sudden their home isn't their home.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: So I don't think that that's ever like the best decision,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: with the exception of obviously like physical abuse and things
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I think if you can avoid it, try to avoid it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: How have you thought about conversations with your kids?
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: So I think it's dropping like little breadcrumbs at age
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: appropriate times, not just bombarding them. I definitely want to
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: be the one to introduce to them who I am
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: in my line of work. This is what mom used
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: to do. And you know, sex is it's natural and
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: between consenting adults, it can be it's supposed to be
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: fun and it can be a creative outlet and that's
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: kind of how I utilized it. And it's not something
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: to have shame towards at all, Like I hate that
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: for some reason this country specifically, like we're gripping onto
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: that shame and it's like, well, what is that serving?
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Like do you like how you feel when like that
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: bubbles up. Do you like being ashamed when you're with
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: somebody else or when you're by yourself. I don't think
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: that that relationship with sex is healthy either, So just
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: trying to create an idea of like a healthy sexual
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: sexuality within himself.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so awesome, thank you, because that's not an
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: easy conversation to have, especially you're about to have another son.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You have two sons, so it's not a daughter, it's
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a more difficult conversation. But I'm
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: sure you and your husband have talked about.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: How you're gonna bring Yeah.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: And I think being on the same team is also
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: super helpful, right, Like he's been my husban and supported
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: me through my whole career.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, well mom.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Did all this crazy stuff before I met or I
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: don't know what to tell you guys, you know what
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I mean. So we're going and united, and I think
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: both of our mission is the same too, which is
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: to get rid of any residual shame that might be
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: put on them and say, like, you're allowed to express
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: yourself sexually however you like, once you're an adult.
• 28:21
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• 29:09
  Speaker 1: while you're part of the industry and then now does
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: it have any impact?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's impossible for it not too.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: I think the benefits would be that I learned a
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: lot about what I like and like who I am, and.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I found a lot of confidence in shooting.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: I would say some of the things that I had
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: to be conscious about or like maybe correct is if
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: you're shooting a lot, it's very easy to get in
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: like this performer state of mind, and then to lose
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: that authentic connection or intimacy when you're with women.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Do that a lot.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: It's so hard, right, because you're worried about like does
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: my tummy look good? What a face am I making?
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Do I sound like an idiot? And it's it's trying
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: to get out of that and like find that authentic
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: flow with one another and actually connect so that I
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: for a moment I started catching on to that happening
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: and like I don't need to always worry about is
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: everything tight? Do I look pretty?
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Like? You know what I mean? Just be in that moment,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: kind of lose yourself.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that it's more of a spiritual experience, right, a
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: physical one, right, and they can be one.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Or the other or both. Yeah.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Is there a generalization of the porn industry that you
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: think is unfair?
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I'd say the main one that I try to combat
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: a lot is that, like, I'm just very impulsive, right, and.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I think that's a lot of women.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Like when women have an issue with who I am
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: or my line of work, or they feel like I'm
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: a threat to their family or their way of life, right,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: it's like they think that I'm not gonna be able
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: to control myself and I'm just going to try to take.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Their husband, right.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I like the Greek mythology version of the siren.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Right right, right, And it's not that it's not that
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: at all. It's like, yeah, we have different ideas of
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: what healthy sexuality is and how to express that. But
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: by no means am I like this unconscious like hungry
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: ghost that's just gobbling everything up. Like that's not the case,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Like my decisions were all were calculated.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's nice that you say this, but I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: think I can say this. Don't you think that that
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: sort of fear is really a reflection of their own
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: shame or like want to be more open with their sexuality.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: That can totally be it, right, because there's there are consequences, right,
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Like I've I've faced a lot of consequences for my
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: liberated idea of what sexuality is and not everyone wants
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: to put up that fight, and I understand it because
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: it's exhausting, but it's it would be a lot healthier
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: and happier for people if they stopped blaming everything outside
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: and then would try to fix like inside.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: What was the most exhausting part.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it still happens now.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's being judged before you even have a
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: conversation with someone. It's people that I know are going
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: to tell my kid that they can't be friends with
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: him because of who I am. It's potential investors dropping
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: out of my husband's businesses because he.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Dared to marry me. Like, those things are exhausting.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: I'm really sorry.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It was all my decisions, so you have to like
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I have to own them, you know what I mean.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Doesn't make it not hard?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't make any.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this I need you to explain to me. Okay,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I've heard you're an advocate of paywalls and porn. Yes,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: so paywalls for people that don't know, like at least
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: in my industry and journalism. It's like you pay five
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: dollars for the New York Times every month, so same
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: thing in porn. What impact would you do you think
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: having paywalls?
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: So I think it's crazy, like absolutely crazy that you
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: can have anything online for free, like when it comes
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: to like very explicit or violent types of content. We
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: have kids that have access to phones at younger and
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: younger ages, and obviously they're going to be googling things
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: and I think when you get onto a tube site specifically, there's.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Just it looks like Netflix, but you know, explicit.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: So I think it doesn't make sense that you can
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: just scroll and then all of a sudden, something very
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: really violent and sexual pop step that you didn't consent
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: to come onto your page. I think it's different if
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: you have a paywall and you're like, Okay, I'm into
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: like this kinky stuff, and I as an adult and
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I'm going to subscribe in this is what I want
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: to see, versus like I'm going in as a curious
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: person to see what a naked body looks like, and
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, something very violent gets pushed on
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's okay.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: So I think if you have a paywall, obviously your
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: children are going to it's gonna be a lot harder
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: for them to access, which I think is the main thing,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: at least for me. I don't think we should be
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: making it easier for our kids to see porn. And
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: then I think it just it kind of makes the
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: whole transaction a little bit more ethical in my mind
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: for the porn start too, Like, well, that's why I
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: love platform as like OnlyFans. And how people are kind
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: of moving to these like decentralized models is because you're
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: supporting the creator and like, if they're self producing, then
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: you know that they're consenting and that they're of age
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: and no one's like coursing them to be there, and
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: that they more importantly own their content, so if they
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: do decide to take it off, it's theirs to do that,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: whereas when they shoot for all these other companies, like,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: you don't really know what happened on set all of
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: the time. I've had girlfriends that have had some pretty
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: bad experiences and those scenes are still out there. So
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: and people get mad when I say that, but you
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: have to tell the whole story of the industry, right,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: it's like good bad, like anything else. So I think
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: when you're paying the creator directly, then there's like more verification.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: That like, nothing bad happened on set.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Speaking of decentralized NFTs and porn, yes, what does that
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: look like?
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: So I think where I hope it goes is that
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: the creators are making this content and that they are
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: actually getting royalties which don't exist, and that they are
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: they're not beholden to these other companies. So like, you
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: make this decision that will affect you for the rest
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: of of your life. At least you'll be financially secure
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: for it, right where right now, that's not the case.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: And I think it also will put.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: A lot of value onto the creator because it's all
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: their community that's driving that traffic and making the sales,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: and I think that that'll serve them well. Right now,
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: we've always kind of been told like your value is
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: within the company, and that's not the case. And I
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: realize that when I stopped shooting mainstream and I started
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: shooting for myself, and like, I was so undervalue and
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I was so undervalued and I don't even own any
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: of that, and there's thing I can do about it.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: So I think you're gonna start seeing these big companies
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: start to fall, and I think that's across the board.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I think that's with a lot of social media pages
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: as well, and you're to start seeing individual communities start
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: to pop up.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Interesting the male gaze. Yes, Okay, so this is also
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: from my class in college.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: At least you were paying attention.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I was fascinated because so much of one of the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: things I learned is that so much of porn is
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: shot through the male lens and then they call it
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: the money shot. Is that what they call it on set?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: So the money shot is when facial right, the man
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: ejaculates and it's like his orgasm that matters. There are
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: all these sites now I was researching, there's like ten
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to fifteen sites that are kind of considered feminist porn
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: shot through either more of a women's lens or more
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: about female pleasure. In your experience in the industry, like
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: what effect did the male gaze have on you? And
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: in hindz site, do you feel like it negatively impacts
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: people's sort of perception of what sex is.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I had any effect with it.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: I kind of always knew that going into it that
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: that was like their main demographic. I think men are
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: allowed to have things that are made for them and
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: women are allowed to have things that are made for them,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: and I.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Don't think that that makes it wrong or evil. Our
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: brains work totally different.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: The way that we process pleasure is totally different, and
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of times we villainize the way
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: that it's shop and we say that you know it's
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: anti woman because they're coming on the face.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Well, there's actually like a biological reason for that.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: So it's suggested that it kind of it activates the
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: competition part in the man's brain and then that makes
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: them be more heavily aroused. So it's there's like these
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: books called Sperm Wars and Sex at Dawn and they
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: kind of get into it where like if a man
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: sees a competition, then all of a sudden, his sperm
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: account actually goes up. So it's like for his pleasure
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: because that's what it's designed for. It's not designed to
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: be degrading to the woman. Now, I think where it's
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: a problem is if like the woman is like I
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: don't want to do it, and then you get pressure
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: for her to do that on set, right, Like that's different,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: but it's like understanding the purpose behind it is like
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: they're trying to please their customer.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So I think.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: There's that when it comes to women and porn and
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: like like feminist porn, I heard that actually doesn't really
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: do that well. A lot of women in lesbians too,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: which is like so fascinating, Like they love gay porn
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: like man on man, and they say that the one
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: of the hypothesized reasons is that like that's a more
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: natural view, like vantage point for you is like seeing
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: the man and like taking that in and if you
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: look at that like that, porn is shot just as
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: kind of like invasive and tight shots and it's still
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: very what some people would say is like violent or aggressive,
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: so it's not like just happening to the women. It's
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: just that's shot for the man. So like that's just
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: the model of it. And then women, we like our
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: minds to be stimulated. That's why romance novels are like
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: a number one seller and women love that, and that's
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: their version of pornography is reading a romance where the
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: guy is like strong and masculine and vulnerable at the
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: same time and you can't tell you how much he,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: you know, would die for you.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Like that's appealing to us.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And a guy would say that and say, like that's
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: not realistic, just like we look at the girl on
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: the on the film and say, well, that's not an orgasm.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: We have different minds.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I agree with everything you said, except I do feel
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: like mainstream porn is all about male pleasures. Still, yeah,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I wish female pleasure was highlighted more.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Well, you would say that it is, though, because the
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: orgasms are so ridiculous.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of times. Oh, they say that.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: The reason that they make the orgasms so over the
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: top is like men want to know that you're enjoying
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: it and not dying because like they're more powerful than you,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: so like they want to make sure it's good and
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: they're not hurting you. So for that to translate on film,
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: they want it to be a little bit rubbed up.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's fake, right, right, we all know most
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: of the time it's it's amped up. That's not how
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: you have real sex. It's not going to shatter the walls.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: But it's to let the guy know, like she's enjoying it,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: she's okay, just like in the romance novel when the
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: guy comes in in the rain and he's like everything,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: I would give up everything for you, and you're like, well,
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: that doesn't happen in real life either, right, But we
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: need like this magnified version to satisfy ourselves, to kind
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: of break us away from reality, because that's the point.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: It's entertainment, right.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But then it kind of it's like this circle,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: right because I see that, and then as a teenage girl,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: you probably think, oh that I should perform to have
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: an orgasm.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that it's a fine line and it's
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: like kind of the stance that you have to do,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: because I don't think there's anything wrong with performing as
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: long as you're also enjoying yourself, because at least with
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: my husband, I want to, you know, put on like
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: a little show for him, and I want to do
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: my hair and get this outfit on, but he also
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: needs to take care of me. So it's it's having
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: that balance. And the longer you're with someone, there's gonna
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: be times where you do not want to have sex,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: but you do it for your partner, and vice versa,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: right where like they don't want to have sex, but
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: they want to like they know you do, they want to.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Take care of you.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: So not every exchange is gonna be equal, and men
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: tend to want more sex than women generally speaking. So
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything wrong with performing, but I
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: think there's something wrong when you perform at the expense
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: of your pleasure.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: So well said, how often are you actually orgasming on set?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Less than in real life? For sure?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say never, no, no, no, no,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: That's so surprising because especially when women watch porn, they're like,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: there's no way.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: She's actually orgasm.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Like, you'd be surprised at how many of those are
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: actually real good for sure, Yeah.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Because it's just like a better day.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: You're not expecting that.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's it's less than like my batting
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: average at home because obviously you are worried about how
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: you're looking and you are like pumping everything up, so
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: it's not totally authentic and it's hard, like for me,
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: I have to like get out of my mind and
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: into my body to have an orgasm, So if I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: thinking too much, it's not going to happen. But sometimes
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: you're able, like every like the stars online, and you're
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: with a really good partner and you feel good about
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: yourself and it comes. But I didn't even plan that one.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I would say at least half the time,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: that's pretty good.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not bad.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I was not expecting that. Okay, again from my class.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: It's one thing.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: So there's something called the damaged goods hypothesis. So it
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: suggests that female performers in the adult entertainment industry have
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: higher rates of childhood sexual abuse, psychological problems and drug
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: use compared to the typical woman. And then this guy,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: James D. Griffith, did a study in the Journal of
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Sexual Health and he compared the self reports of one
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven porn actresses to a sample of
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: women that were They matched the age, ethnicity, marital status.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: They compared sexual behaviors and attitudes, self esteem, quality of life,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: and drug use. I was so shocked by the findings. One,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: there were no differences in incidences of child sexual assault.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: There were differences in this poor an Actresses were more
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: likely to identify as bi sexual, they first had sex
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: at an earlier age, had more sexual partners, were more
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: concerned about contracting an STD, they enjoyed sex more, and
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: they had higher levels of self esteem, positive feelings, social support,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: sexual satisfaction, and spirituality compared to the matched group. Obviously,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: this is all anecdotal in terms of your experience and
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: your experience talking to other women in the field. What
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: are your thoughts on all of that.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not surprised at all.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I think so we in the industry. When you're shooting mainstream,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: you're testing every two weeks. So obviously the more partners
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: you have, you are at an increased risk, but they
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: also are doing preventive measures to make sure that you
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: are staying healthy. I think when it comes to self esteem,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: like I'm not shocked you're working on yourself live in
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: front of an audience.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: You're like, this is what I like.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: What you realize too, when you start shooting poorn is
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: you have this idea that you have to be like
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: the supermodel body to be deemed detractive or worthy and
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: to feel good about yourself. But then when you realize,
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: like this girl is super famous and she doesn't look
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: like Chiselle right, or like the average man sees beauty,
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: and a lot of things like that, that variation is
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: a lot wider than I think we are told, at
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: least on the traditional magazines like growing up in like
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: the nineties and the two thousands. So I think that's
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: really empowering is to kind of not try to make
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: your body perfect and not try to copy these fashion
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: models because I'm never going to be five ten and
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: I'm never going to be one hundred pounds.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: It's not going to happen.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: So either, you know, it's like embracing you for you.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: So I think you find a lot of a lot
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: of solace in that. And then when it comes to
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: the spirituality, I think when the world is so hard
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: on you, there's going to be some people that try
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: to find like dig into that and like lean into
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: that pain. And I think spirituality is like a really
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: great outlet for that, and it makes you ask really
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: difficult question and kind of take responsibility and empowerment and
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: see things from a broader perspective.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: We have to talk about your podcast, Okay, okay, so
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: chatting with Candace loved it. I listened to several episodes.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: It's also on you. There's clips on YouTube which I
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: really like because you can like watch you. Your YouTube
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: says life is messy and thinking for yourself is becoming
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: a thing of the past. I hope to spark some curiosity,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: have some fun, and challenge what you think. You know,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: what feels messy to you right now?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Right now?
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, everything I think we are so we're
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: so quick to judge everything, And a lot of that
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: is because you know, like our mental load, like we
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: can only take on so much, we can only make
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: so many decisions a day. So we have all this
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: evidence that says this person is good or bad, that
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: this idea is good or bad, and then we chalk
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: it up to that instead of just like putting in
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: a little bit more energy and effort into like, well,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: what has this person shown me? Or what do I
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: really know about this topic? Have I given the other
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: side a fair view? And that might be on comfortable
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: but and you might end up in the same spot
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: like that person is not for me, and that idea
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: is not for me. But at least like challenge it
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: a little bit so that you know that you made
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: that decision and that you didn't do it out of
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: laziness or because everyone else told you to think that way.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: At what point did you stop doing porn? Oh?
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Man, like entirely. So.
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: I still shoot solo stuff, but like hardcore stuff, I
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: would say, Man, for mainstream it's probably been six or
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: seven six years.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Was it hard to get out?
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: It was so hard.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: You have this idea that that's your worth and if
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: you leave, you're worth nothing and you're gonna be forgotten
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: and all was for nothing?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And what am I going to do?
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: I can't get a regular job because I have this
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: red a branded on my.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Forehead that won't go away.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: So what am I gonna do, and it's a there's
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: a lot of fear around that, and I think that
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: translates to all areas of I think everyone's life. If
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: you're making decisions based off of fear, it's not going
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: to be a good one. So you have to somehow
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: try to silence that that while still be making calculated
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: decisions and then do what you really want to do.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: And it's easier said than done, because it took me
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: probably a year of thinking about it before I actually quit.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: In taking the leap, Because I think in taking a leap,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: no matter where you are in your life, in relationship
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: and work, what is your advice in terms of jumping,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: take a.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Deep breath, have a very conscious support system, like know
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: who your friends are and that they're there through thick
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: and then I think that's so crucial because you're gonna
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: need it no matter what your leap is, and if
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: it's what you were authentically curious or passionate about, then
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: you're either gonna thrive or you're gonna learn, and then
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: you can do it all over again and do it
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: all over again until one day it works. But I
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: think if you have you know very important like if
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: you have like a loving support system, and you're listening
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: to that little voice that's like in here, and.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Then I don't think you can go wrong. I know
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: that sounds probably a little hippie, but I believe it. Yeah,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: I believe it too.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, rapid fire, Yes, true or false? Does
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: being a porn start always mean you're grade at sets? No?
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Really no, I think because especially if you get really young,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: you get into eighteen, maybe you're super hot and like
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: you're doing the porn thing, you're being very loud and theatrical,
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: and if you take that into the real world, your
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: partner might be concerned. Is everything okay? Am I hurting her?
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: So it's it could be really easy not to listen
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: to your body and actually be present in the moment
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: and be too performative.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: God is so yet not necessarily not always. What's something
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: new about sex that you've learned recently?
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I would say the thing I'm most curious about that
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: I recently learned is the like transcendental qualities of it.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: So some people are now in sex research, using sex
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: and masturbation to achieve altered states similar to like if
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: you were to do like psilocybin and they're using it
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: to treat like PTSD and depression and anxiety.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: So I think that's fascinating.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: You gotta do an episode on that.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I talked a little bit with doctor Nicole Prouse on it,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: but Prowsy, but it's still so new and she's like
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: the only one in the country right now doing the
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: research because to get funding where the participants get to
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: climax is really difficult because Congress still doesn't like worgasms.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, is there a key to filming something really sexy?
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I think doing something that you were already into, so
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: like wearing something that you like, having music on that
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: you like, if it's like a dance or if you
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: were whatever you're trying to film for whatever reason, and
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: just like make sure like you already are interested in,
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: not just doing something for someone else, and then just
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: like accepting that it's not going to be perfect in
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: your own mind because we're our own worst critics, and
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: that whoever you're sending it to is probably gonna love
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: it regardless.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: What does romance mean to you?
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Effort? I think it's effort.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: So I think it's really easy to get lazy, especially
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: the longer you're with somebody, and I think it's being
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: aware of what their love language is and what that
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: person needs. Is it like acts of service or kind words?
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: Is a physical touch and it's not easy to create
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: that novelty and we're wired to need that. So I
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: think on both people's ends, it's how do I introduce
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: novelty to my partner in a way that they're going
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: to appreciate it?
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: That's so nice. What's something you wish people could see
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: about you that they don't see it first glance.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: That's a tough one because I don't know what people
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: think when they first see me. I would so we'll
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: go if they know who I am, and I would
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: say that I'm more than what you think I am.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I'm more than what you've been told.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: The key to a really truly great.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: Kiss spontaneity, I would say, right, is not expecting it.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: I think, especially if you're with someone for a long time,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: because we can get so like, we can't let's get.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: To the point, right, we got five minutes.
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think spontaneity getting lost in the moment,
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: trying to get out of your mind, which is really hard.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: I think for a lot of people and then just being.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: Present a book that changed your life, Victor Frankel's A
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Man Search for Meaning, hands down.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Do a pretty smart question.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, let's go with this one.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: What expert do you want lessons from?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a good one. We were talking about it earlier.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I would love to talk to Esther Parrel and like.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Just pick her brain on relationships because I think it's
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: really fascinating.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: What is the smartest decision you've ever made.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: I would say, is stop making decisions based off of fear.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: It's my biggest one, because.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: All all of my good ones, all everything good in
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: my life was because I quieted that voice and I
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: did what I felt like I had to do in
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: the moment.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm, all right, today is a good day. To
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: have a good day. I'll see you next week.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: Hmm