Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 6 Track 3 - The Confucius of Marketing, Andrew Springate

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Album 6 Track 3 - The Confucius of Marketing, Andrew Springate · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds. We are back at you at the top of the year, another January special. And we are starting the year off blazing LT to 2024 Brand Nerds. Uh, we thank you all for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes, and we hope that we have been able to bring myriad guests bringing information and insight that can be useful to you to apply in your career. But this, this particular podcast is special to me, very special to me because in this podcast, LT, we're going to be talking with an individual who is one of the best, most accomplished marketers in the world. Number one. Number two is a really, really good human, really good human. And number three, someone that I have worked very closely with. So Brand Nerds, for those that have been listening for more than just one podcast, you know, my love for the Sprite brand, you know, my love for the Sprite brand. The work that, uh, I've been a part of and on the Sprite brand has been covered in books and, uh, documentaries, et cetera. But what you may not know is the name of one individual who we have here on the show with us today. And Larry's gonna say the name in a moment, but let me just give you a teaser. This young man, when he came out of B School, he came into the Coca Cola Company. So he's young, green, wet behind the ears, just like we all were at that time. He's And there was a cadre of about four or five of us. Who were responsible for crafting, developing, and executing a repositioning on my beloved Sprite brand. This dude was one of the critical components and minds behind that. Now he has had a different career. He went to a competitor, which. Uh, Larry's going to speak to in a moment, in a moment. So the documentation of exactly what he did may not be fully understood or appreciate it. But I know LT and I know Brand Nerds that the Sprite brand is not the Sprite brand it is today or has been over the last quarter century without this dude, LT, who do we have in the building with us today? LT: Oh, DC. What a great setup you had for us there. We have Andrew Springate in the house today. Welcome, Andrew. Andrew Springate: Thank you. Glad to be here, guys. This is going to be fun. LT: It's going to be fun. So, okay, Brand Nerds, as DC said. Here is another Coca Cola alum doing some great work in the marketing world, where he is currently the CMO at Keurig Dr. Pepper Inc. So that's what DC was alluding to as it relates to competitor. So that Sprite work may be the bane of your existence now, uh, Andrew. But, uh, let's walk you through, uh, Brand Nerds, Andrew's full path. Illuminating how he has worked his way up to a CMO of a fortune 500 company. So Andrew earns his undergrad degree at University of Texas, Austin, hook them horns, right? Good year for you, Andrew. Good year. Right. DC: Larry, I just got to say this really quick. Uh, uh, Andrew. Can you please speak to the head basketball coach of your esteemed undergraduate university and tell him to chill out. He can't go through the handshake line with the team and then be yelling at them because they're putting the horns down. He can't do that. All right. Andrew Springate: Yes, I actually personally take pride when people do the horns down because I think that means you've resonated with the competitor, right? You've kind of got your brand in their mind. So I've always thought that that was actually a pretty good thing. But yes, horns down seemed to get him upset. DC: Very nice. Very nice. LT: I love you. We're already seeing the prism of Andrew's mind right there. I love that. Love that. So right out of school, right out of Texas, he grabs a great opportunity to join Frito Lay in their sales management training program, where he spends the first year driving a truck in the Louisiana Bayou. How hot was that truck in the summer, Andrew? Andrew Springate: Right. Actually, the heat in the summer was bad and we can talk a little bit about it, but the two things that stood out to me were actually the winter when it was incredibly cold. That was not a fun thing, but it's important to understand. And then actually the second piece to me was actually getting up in the middle of the night to do the work because my route started like 3 am. And that was to me that still leaves a big impression on how things get to grocery stores and how things work. LT: Wow. I love that you, you added that, uh, that point. So that was the, uh, the precursor to Andrew then running a sales region, which was based in Baton Rouge. So Brand Nerds, if you are starting a marketing or sales career, this kind of ground up opportunity, as Andrew alluded to, getting up to 3 am. to make sure that, you know, your products on the shelf for people to get to the grocery store first thing. This is such a so rich with learnings and hence priceless. So that was incredible experience for Andrew. And then Andrew then decides to go to business school and he goes to Harvard where he earns an MBA from the esteemed Harvard Business School. So after graduating from Harvard, he then joins us in brand management on North Avenue at the Coca Cola company. First starting on the Fruitopia brand. And eventually gets promoted into working on Sprite with DC, which DC alluded to so very well. And I'm sure that we're going to cover that more as we, uh, as we go forward. He also worked on, on a brand, uh, at, at the Coca Cola company, uh, at the time called Citra. So, okay, Brand Nerds. We often discuss key career pivots in successful people's careers. And here is Andrews. He's doing great at Coca Cola and brand management, but the tail end of the 1990s for you younger Brand Nerds. There was something called the first dot com boom and then was called the dot com bubble. This is when the internet was getting started and venture capital firms were throwing money hand over fist at B2C internet companies. Because of this, many of these companies went to the best consumer marketing companies around and they recruited great marketers such as Andrew and Andrew then joins living.com as their Director of Marketing. Some companies, notably Amazon and eBay, were able to survive and thrive, but most didn't, including Living.com. I'm sure Andrew learns a whole lot from this experience, and hopefully we can cover some of this during the podcast. The good news for Andrew is he quickly rebounds and joins at the time Cadbury Schweppes, and despite a few corporate parent changes, He begins a hugely successful career there, where he still is at, we're still going today. We're still at that same company, albeit with many name changes. He first works on notable brands, 7up, Sunkist, A& W, and Squirt, and soon becomes VP of Marketing. Eight years into his stint there, along with a corporate parent change, he is now working for what is called the Dr. Pepper Snapple Group and he has promoted to SVP of Marketing, where he leads brand marketing efforts for the 6 billion beverage portfolio of 58 brands, including priority brands Dr. Pepper, 7 Up, and Snapple, among many. And he's also directing 340 million in annual marketing spend while managing a team of 85 marketers. After four successful years in that position, Andrew then becomes the SVP of Marketing, Innovation, and Strategic Planning, leading the development of portfolio plans, consumer insights, new product innovation, licensing strategies, creative strategy, advertising, and media plan development, including. Uh, responsibility for all digital marketing and social media efforts, and he directly leads a group of more than 100 people. So, Brand Nerds, remember Andrew's experience at Frito Lay in the hot, sweaty, bio running sales? Well, in 2014, the company promotes Andrew to be GM at SVP of sales, and after three and a half successful years in that position, in 2017, he earns the really big promotion to CMO. Even with another corporate parent change in 2018, where Keurig comes into the picture, changing the name to Keurig Dr. Pepper Inc, Andrew continues on as CMO, where he and his team drive great results, highlighted by flagship brand, Dr. Pepper, being the fastest growing soft drink in the past six years, which is really incredible and cool. With all this professional success, most importantly, there's Andrew's wife, Christine, and their three daughters, where clearly Andrew is outnumbered on virtually everything at home. CMO humble, D, right? DC: Yes, yes. LT: So lastly, Andrew is also a board member for the Goodyear Cotton Bowl, the Dr. Pepper Museum and Free Enterprise Institute, and advisory board member for Ridge Ventures. Looking forward to this one, Brand Nerds. Welcome to Brands Beats and Bytes Andrew Springate. Andrew Springate: Thank you very much. Again, as I said, I'm happy to be here and I couldn't, uh, couldn't be more happy to spend a good, uh, good hour with you guys and get to talk about some of my favorite stuff, branding and relive some of our past and talk about the future. LT: Oh yeah, this is going to be fun. DC: All right, uh, Brand Nerds, uh, Andrew and I have known each other for decades. And for those people that I have known for even a year, sometimes a nickname will come forward, not one that has been requested. At all, but it'll just come to my mind and I will just start referring to the person with said nickname. Now sometimes people look at me when I give them this nickname, as if like, who the hell are you? Like, don't call me that shit. But then sometimes a nickname might stick. So, my nickname for Andrew Springate and has been for decades is Gate Baby. Okay, so I call Andrew Springate, gate baby. So now that I've got that out of the way, uh, gate, baby, we're going to, um, um, to our Get Comfy section. And so I've got two areas I want to explore. The first one is this. You are, and your team are responsible for leading the growth of the brand, um, Dr. Pepper. And it's really, really hard for brands to grow in the carbonated soft drink space. Particularly with sugar. Now we know that that non sugar zero calorie versions, but particularly anything with sugar is like very, very difficult to grow. You guys have been on fire for now, at least six years. In fact, and, uh, uh, Brand Nerds, you all should know this. Andrew is a really big sports fan, huge sports fan. It was one of the things that he brought to us on Sprite, his understanding of sports, how to connect brands with sports. And he, he, he and others were, um, at the helm of making certain that we'd made the most at the time that we worked together of Sprite and NBA. So this dude is, he's not just a brand guy. He really understands sports, which leads me to this. I'm arriving at a question here in a minute, Gate Baby just, just stick with me. I'm arriving at a question. All right. So speaking of sports, the Dr. Pepper college football marketing is the gold standard of marketing. In, in sports, it is the gold standard, the episodic nature at which you all do what you do. Absolutely phenomenal. Now I'm coming to the question. You also have brands that, all of them in some way or another, uh, Gabe Baby, they compete with Sprite. Sprite is another brand that, that continues to grow. I don't think we've ever had anyone on our podcast. Who was responsible for growing a brand, establishing a brand, positioning the brand, setting a blueprint for that brand, leave and go to a competitor, and then have to deal with what they created in their new role. How has that been for you, man? Andrew Springate: Well, you're right. Uh, it is a absolute challenge and, uh, look, uh, as happy and as proud as I am of, uh, Dr. Pepper, I still look to Sprite its phenomenal success as, uh, something that's amazing. Um, honestly, I'm kind of a, I, one of my philosophies in life has been to be a little bit of a contrarian, so. I don't often say, Hey, let's go try and take down Sprite. It is just a great brand. It's going to be a juggernaut and it does well. I tend to want to build from strength. So I would look at our other brands and we've had a ton of success on Dr Pepper. But we had, I think, 16 years of growth now on Canada Dry, so we've built a big ginger ale segment, you know, 65 share of root beer with A& W. So there's a lot of places we can play where you don't have to go head to head necessarily with a juggernaut like Sprite. I love 7 Up. I think it's got a lot of merit. Uh, you know, it's not going to come in and, uh, kind of steamroll over Sprite. We, you know, I know that, but, uh, I think there's a place for all. And that's what I love about marketing is there's a lot of great brands and everybody has a, an opinion and a preference for brands on, you know, uh, in soft drinks and more broadly across all drinks. So that makes it fun. DC: Mm. That it does. Uh, I just wonder whether secretly sometimes gay, not now, but early in your career, uh, before it was Keurig, uh, Dr. Pepper, when it was, uh, Cadbury Schweppes, um, whether people secretly harbored like, Ooh, we don't like you, Andrew, you created that beast over there. We don't like that. But anyway, uh, I'll go to the next question. Uh, Larry, any response to what, uh, Gate said about that before I go to the next question? LT: No, just a quick comment. I think it's really cool that Andrew's here to see both sides of that. And, uh, that perspective is, is, is really interesting. DC: All right, Gate Baby, you're getting up at 3 AM to prep, to go out, to deliver Uh, Frito Lay brands and products on shelves so that people like us can buy them. What did you learn from that experience that you still benefit from today? Andrew Springate: Yeah, uh, thank you for asking. I think that is, uh, some of the seminal lessons I've had in business really came from that. Uh, first and foremost, I have such great respect for People that earn a living and I would call that more of a blue collar living. I mean, you know, I was working 12 hour days and Larry said some of them were hot. As I said, some of them were cold. But man, the idea of getting up that early and doing something physical. I used to get made fun of by some people because I was toting around chips and pushing around dollies with chips, but they were still heavy and it was hard work. Um, so a lot to learn there and yeah. You know, my biggest takeaways were one. Um, you know, as I said, an appreciation for the people that actually do that job to was, I think, a fundamental understanding of what it means to be direct store delivery and how things get the shelf. Um, you know, what I learned is on really cold days, I did not want to spend a lot of extra time. Making displays in the store. I wanted to get in and out and Yeah. You know, so that makes me realize, like when I'm creating incentives now or programs to kind of get things executed and Walmarts or, you know, uh, Publix or some of these grocery stores, you've gotta kind of think through what is, uh, you know, literally the delivery person thinking about this and what's kind of on their mind. Uh, because there are days when you just want to get in and out of a store and you, you don't want to talk to the manager or go push for that extra. So I try and, you know, keep that in mind as we go forward. Um, and then the other thing is I learned, uh, you know, you sometimes hear this, uh, in terms of football players, but, uh, one of the things I've really grown to appreciate is the best ability is availability. And I think as a marketer, you want to be present. So the ubiquity you can get people to do to put your brand in store. So people trip over it and see it everywhere you go. There's nothing better. Uh, you know, I believe a lot and Mental availability. That's the job of the marketer to get everybody ready to think about the product. But then when you get in the store, you want to have that physical availability. And I think to this day, I still look back at what I was doing and how I was pushing for incremental displays in stores and talking about end caps and talking about side stacks and how important that is to kind of create that physical availability. And I think that cuts across any market and certainly in CPG, but almost anywhere you want to be mentally available, physically available. And I think I learned a lot about how to get that physical availability. LT: Ooh, that's awesome. D, you mind if I follow up on this? DC: Oh, please do. That's strong. That's strong. LT: That's really strong. So, you know, Andrew, in my brand days, uh, I made it a point to get out to the field because, you know, I mean, if you don't know what's going on there, it doesn't matter what you do as it relates to great marketing programs. You know, it's got to be, as you said, Uh, you know, the best of the best abilities availability and if you don't have the right products on the shelves at the right time in the right place, it doesn't matter how good your marketing is. And I was in a and I've talked about it once before I worked at Seagram beverage company before, um, before joining Coca Cola and working on Seagram coolers. And we had a situation where we had one dominant flavor. And I was going out to stores and I'm noticing we had all these other flavors sitting on the shelf and there was a hole, right? And the, that dominant flavor was many times either close to pick cleaned or pick cleaned entirely. And I went and did a whole study on this and we, we really sort of reframed everything we did at the shelf because we realized that we were had a lot of out of stocks because we had these other what were supposedly new innovative flavors that the consumer didn't want sitting on the shelf and taking up space. So I tell that story because I would love to hear your thoughts as it relates to that story with me and and your time doing the job that you did and how that specifically impacted maybe some programs that you did in the past or that you're doing to this day. Andrew Springate: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Like you've got to be very, uh, thoughtful and smart about innovation. Uh, some of the things I've learned is you, uh, and this is more from this side of the desk. You can learn or create products that create incrementality, but they don't necessarily have the velocity you need at retail. And I, you know, one of the lessons I always talk about and took away is retail is really like a real estate game, right? You've got so much space and you want high end velocity where you can get as much out of it as possible. So, um, I think being very thoughtful about innovation is really important. And, and, you know, kind of balancing the idea of new and incremental, uh, but very much with the idea of, hey, it's got to move and sell. And, uh, really, that, that is one of the biggest lessons I've learned. One of the other things I'd seen, uh, in my experience was, uh, you've got to be careful if you change a brand a little bit. So think of brand colors or the things that really are how people recognize a brand. Uh, and some of my experience, there had been some flirting with how to make a red, white, and blue package over the holiday. Well, because consumers were looking, used to looking for a yellow version of it. The red, white and blue version just looked like it was something new and sat there and, and, you know, we ended up creating our own challenges. Uh, so you've got to be thoughtful about how you use space and, uh, how you get the most out of it. And I think that's a really good point, Larry. DC: Cool. Yeah. Um, Andrew, you may or may not remember this, but, uh, there's a, um, a lady, unfortunately she's passed. She was at Coca Cola, uh, Larry, when you were there, Andrew and I were there. And many others. She was the number two in media on the USA side. Her name is Judy Dalton. LT: God bless Judy. Yup. DC: Judy has passed away. I remember Judy. I will. Yeah. Blessed in power. So what Judy said to me when I arrived, so I'm in her office. And she says, uh, listen, you MBAs come in here thinking like, you know, something, you don't know anything. Like you, you, you don't know anything. LT: That was so Judy, by the way. DC: So Judy, and if, if in fact, you recognize that, then I will teach you. But if you, if you, if you act like you already know everything, then I'm just going to let you flail on your own. And you mentioned, um, A sports analog, uh, earlier, uh, best, best ability is availability. I'm going to use a sports quote that I actually heard from the first time from Larry, from John Wooden. So, uh, Brand Nerds for you guys who don't know John Wooden, also resting power, legendary NCAA basketball coach, UCLA, he had a quote. It said it's, it's what you learn after, you know, at all that counts. It's what you learn after you know it all that counts, meaning Brand Nerds, don't get too like fanciful about what you know, I want to say this about you, Andrew, and this thing that you just mentioned about what you learn at Frito Lay and taking things to the, uh, to the store and then also being understanding, empathetic of what the delivery folks want to do. And that is, when you walked in the doors of Coca Cola, you did not walk in acting like you knew all of the answers. You walked in curious. You walked in asking questions. You walked in trying to figure out a way to learn. And I think that is the very thing that has contributed largely to your success now. So I just want to say that to you, brother. Andrew Springate: Thank you very much. And I do think curiosity. I know you guys have talked about it in the past. It's such a key thing for success. But what I would also say is my learning is education is a privilege. We are lucky to get to go to college or lucky to get an MBA. It is a jump start to stuff. But I absolutely do believe if you look at business today. It's littered with a bunch of people who started from high school or dropped out of college because it is the drive and the effort. I think it's just a privilege to get the jumpstart of, you know, you get the education formally, but to me it's just a quick, you know, a quick shorthand and you've got to learn the business from the ground up almost anywhere you DC: Great point.Great point. All right. We are headed to the next section. We call this five questions. Here's how this goes down. I ask a question. Larry asks a question. We go back and forth until we arrived at five. I am beginning gate baby. Take yourself back to when you were a little shorty, a little shorty maybe, or wherever you want to take it. When you had a brand experience, this was your first brand experience, Andrew, where you were like, wow, I love this brand. I love this experience. I can't get enough of it. I can't believe I've fallen so hard for it. Almost like a first love. What was this brand for you? Andrew Springate: Got it. This will be a little bit of fun for me. Um, I grew up in the Texas area, so we've talked about how everyone had an opinion about, uh, beverages. I think the only thing people have more opinions about are sports teams, but for me, unequivocally, the biggest love was the Dallas Cowboys. Um, some of my best memories came from that. Um, I grew up in an era in the seventies when they had a great team and some classy people like Roger Staubach, Drew Pearson, Tony Dorsett, you know, Randy White, Harvey Martin. So great team. Um, some great memories as you know, I watched them every Sunday. That was awesome and fun for me. One of my greatest memories with my dad. He's still around. Everything's great, but Was, uh, go. My first in live experience with the 1977 playoff game, Dallas Cowboys versus the Vikings freezing cold. But we got to go to the stadium and just see how electric that was. That was great. But when you talk about experiences, Darryl, like, I could not get enough of the Cowboys. I read everything written about them at that era. You know, watched the news at 10:20 every night just so I could see if there was a three minute clip. DC: 10:20! Andrew Springate: You know, who was doing what. You had the shirts. I mean, I had collector's cards. I had Dallas Cowboy pencils. I had posters. Like, there was nothing I was more passionate about at that point than the Dallas Cowboys and, uh, still love them, uh, sometimes, unfortunately, like when you have flame outs like this weekend, but I definitely had a true affinity for that team. LT: Well, I love this, D. I just love this. Did you notice how many, like, sort of different facets of the Cowboys that Andrew spoke to? And then we've talked about this just in our last podcast with Tim Halloran. About the experiential part, the 77 playoffs against the Vikings. Like you could go back to that, Andrew, right. With your dad, like, you know, and, and those are, are what, what it means for brands, it could be Disney, it could be Dr. Pepper. When you have those kind of special experiences and you share them with family, you know, those are emotional connections. That people have that are lifelong, right? Andrew, you've had these for many years now and you will continue to have them for many years. And I just, I just love the way you painted that. And I want to just sort of repaint it for the Brand Nerds about when branding is done at the, at the top level, at the elite level. That's what happens. And that's carried forth for many, many years forward. And now look, Jerry Jones for better or for worse. Uh, he's in it. He's a brilliant marketer, and he's been able to take that foundational success. And by the way, many people don't know this. America's team was coined in 1977 by NFL Films doing, uh, their, their recap of that season when the Cowboys won the Super Bowl, and they were so popular. That they dubbed them America's team and to Jerry Jones's brilliance. He's continued that forward for many years, right? Even though they, as you said, they haven't had the same success. So I just love that in so many ways. And I, and all of us folks. Uh, when you think about those of us who are charted with connecting brands and consumers, that's it at the highest level. And that's what we're all striving for. Andrew Springate: Yeah. Larry, if I could just do a little build, I mean, I think one thing the Jones family has continued to do incredibly well is extend the brand and make it more experiential. So if you live in Dallas now, their stadium experience is phenomenal. So game day, that's great. But they have now started making clubs so you can work out in a Dallas Cowboy Workout Center. They've got clubs where you can have a Dallas Cowboy, uh, experience on game day, uh, or other days. It's, they've just done a great job. We are actually officed right outside their practice field. Uh, and they have created a whole complex around here called the Frisco Star, where they have all the land and it's all kind of branded Cowboys. So it is just, uh, it's been a, Thorough mindset of, you know, providing the best experience and making the cowboy way to cowboy experience a big part of, uh, Dallas. And I think they've done an awesome job on that debate, the team and debate the results, but you know, the, the, the way they've tried to treat the customer, their fans has been phenomenal. I can't say enough good things about what they've done. LT: Brilliant. DC: This is a classic example of the difference between product and brand. LT: Yep. DC: Product, you would, you would equate that to win. So in the last 30 years, Brand Nerds um, the team that has won the most playoff games is the Patriots. They've won 33. This is since 1994. The Cowboys have won four. They've won four playoff games. Since 1994. So if you compare those two, you would think from a product perspective, Oh, those Cowboys are in trouble, but gate baby, because of the things you just mentioned, I didn't know they were doing that in the Frisco area. The Cowboys are valued at 9 billion, the most of any NFL franchise, and that is directly related to what you've said, and that is they know what they're doing with that brand. This is not to suggest that they don't know what they're doing from a product and football perspective. It just says they know how to extend that brand. They're good. Good degree more. They're good. All right, LT. LT: Okay, Andrew. So next question. So who is had or is having the most influence on your career? Andrew Springate: Uh, good question. I, and I've listened to a number of your podcasts and I know everybody has a lot of hard time answering this and there's a lot of folks. Look, there's some people I want to acknowledge. I think I would start with my parents. The work ethic that they showed were phenomenal. LT: What's your parents names? Give them, give them a shout out, please. Andrew Springate: Uh, David and Diana Springate. So I'll start with Diana Springate. She was a teacher. What I saw every day growing up was a woman who would get up at 6 am. and she would come home. She would cook our meals. Clean the house, do homework, probably go to bed at midnight. And I saw that for decades. So, work ethic coming from her. I have a father who's been in education. He, uh, just retired a year ago at 83. He had been running the University of Texas Executive MBA program. So, just incredible drive to, uh, make a difference at what he was doing. And so, parents, big deal. Um, my wife is named Christine Springate. Uh, I see from her. Compassion in what she does. She's an educator, works at Colin College here locally, but she's super compassionate and passionate about what she does and caring for students. And I try and bring that into what I do. Also, um, the third person. And, you know, I always talk about how we stand on the shoulders of the people that were in front of us. Um, and Darryl, you're one of those for me. So I was going to call out you, uh, when I went to Coke is a newly minted, uh, MBA. Okay. I didn't have a strong perception of what marketing was, but Daryl, what you brought to me, and I still feel very strongly about it, is the power of thinking differently. Uh, you were unconventional and your thinking was unconventional. I hadn't thought about, uh, Black culture or African Americans driving culture, but the ability to kind of say, hey, stuff I care about basketball and hip hop music can actually make a difference in the world and actually link to a brand, uh, all stem from you. So, uh, I love that. And then, uh, the last one I'd love to call out is I've had a, had a boss for, uh, well over a decade, a man named Jim Trebilcock here at, uh, what was formerly Dr. Pepper Snapple. And, And, uh, to me, he was truly amazing, too. He was, I guess, in the terms of what, he was able to get stuff done. And I admire that. I think Barack Obama always says, Hey, find people that can get stuff done. He just got stuff done. Like, he, he was a doer. Things happened under him. He was passionate about it. Uh, the other part I admired about him is while he was getting things done, is how he did it. And he was always very people first, always mentoring, always empowering, uh, and to me, he did it right. And those are the shoulders I stand upon when I look about, uh, you know, who I am and what I have become and been able to accomplish. It is largely on the backs of those type of people. And there's countless others that I'm not, you know, not acknowledging. But, uh, that group of, you know, four groups, uh, really were impactful for me. LT: How good was that, D? That was amazing. DC: Yeah. Thank you, uh, Gate. Um, Yeah, man. A little, uh, a little emotional because, um, when we worked together was during a time where there was no diversity, equity, inclusion. None of that stuff was going on then. Nope. And, um, and what we were doing at that time, it was different. And you, you and others could have easily said. I don't know what's up with this dude and why he even believes this is possible. Uh, you could, you could have easily did that, but instead you and, and, uh, and Guth and Glennon and Huff and Conrad and all, all of these different people, you all were like, Yeah, we think we can do this hasn't been done before, but we think we can do it. And so, um, I, I feel blessed Andrew to have, to have worked with people like you, um, who did not turn their nose to something that was different than maybe what they were accustomed to and in fact, embrace it. So that, that really meant a lot for me then. And it's shaped my career as well. Andrew Springate: Yeah, I think, uh, you know, I talk about you thinking differently. To me, I know we always talk about emotion and that's the best way to connect. But I really learned a lot of that lesson from that early Sprite experience where people, where we really saw, hey, culture is a big part of what we're doing. And if you can drive that connection and really make people, look for that badge value and something that represents who they are. You know, I'm willing to get a tattoo or I want a Sprite backboard in my yard because, uh, you know, connect so much with the brand. I think that is. You know, like when we have done our job as a marketer, when we're indelibly imprinted on somebody's, uh, you know, psyche and how they think about themselves, uh, I know when I'm doing my best work today on Dr Pepper, uh, you know, I've had people say, Hey, can I get this tattoo or you see it, you know, shaved in their head, uh, in terms of a haircut or, you know, I've had some people do toast to their parents with Dr Pepper, uh, As they're, you know, lowering their casket. But those type of things, it's great when you make a brand that means that much to somebody. And that, you know, I really did learn a lot of that and that thinking differently, Darryl, through you and the team. So thank you again very much for that. DC: Welcome. LT: I just have one quick follow up question. I don't know. We want to get to the next question. But but Andrew, when you were in the throes of that, and you saw D. C. Thinking differently. Uh, was there a part of you that that was saying, hmm, how's this going to work? Andrew Springate: Yeah. I mean, look, I think, uh, part of everything, uh, as I said, I try and try and approach things from a country and standpoint of, like, what does work? What doesn't work? Yeah, there's obviously some questions about, wow, you know, at the time you would say, hey, I think the black population was probably 12 percent of the U. S. So you'd say, hey, are we going to alienate the rest of the country? Nevermind if it's just Black, but we were also doing hip hop, which at that time, the number of people that liked hip hop was probably, you know, a small percentage of that, right? DC: Tiny. Tiny. Andrew Springate: Yeah, exactly. Tiny, tiny. I think what that really taught me was, hey, if you are able to create a brand that is authentic and and really does connect with who it is supposed to, that will emanate out and and do incredibly well. And I think the brand has continued to do that. So super proud of what that's done. And I think, you know, Dr Pepper in its own ways, it's had some of the same lessons of really, uh. In that case, you know, largely through people that feel individualistic. You know, we always talk about being one of a kind. Um, and you know, we've manifested that through football, but I, I think you see the same thing as people that really resonate with the brand and feel like that is part of who they are and what they are. And, uh, yeah, that lesson is, uh, indelible, but yes, I always question, is it going to work? Because, you know, you're always, if you stand for something, then you're probably meaning somebody is on the other side saying, Hey, that's not me, but I think that's okay. LT: Totally agree. DC: And it is why there are probably equal numbers of Dallas Cowboy fans and Dallas Cowboy haters. LT: Yep. Andrew Springate: Absolutely. And I think as marketers, actually, I know you'd say the same thing with Powerade Larry and other things. Like it is fun. Like I like the challenge. I've got a mother in law who will be the first to tell you she doesn't like Dr. Pepper. That's fine. Like, I like that. I want to hear why you don't, you know, what you do like and why. That's all, it's all fun. Same with sports. That's why I like it. You know, everyone's got a team they love and I love to get into it. LT: Totally agree. It's when people don't care, that's when you got issues. This is when you're, this is when you're in trouble. DC: They say this in relationships that a marriage is in trouble when there is apathy. Not when there's arguments, when there's arguments, you still got a shot because you care enough to argue, but when you don't care enough to argue anymore, and it's just apathy. Ooh, problemo. Problemo. All right. LT, anymore before I hit the next one. LT: No, please hit the next question. DC: Gate baby. You have a storied career. The things that you have done, um, have served as blueprints for other brands to look at and study and emulate. You've done that multiple times. I don't want to know about any of those successes associated with that. I simply want you to share with the Brand Nerds. What is your biggest F up? The big one. And most importantly, what you learn from it. Andrew Springate: Got it. Well, so first I want to tell the brand nerds and all the folks listening. There is a storied list. I had a lot of stuff I could choose from. Actually, I would say as a marketer and probably as a business person, if you are going to succeed, you've probably got a lot of failure in your background. And I definitely, uh, definitely have that. But, uh, Probably the biggest challenge, uh, Larry kind of alluded to it up front was when I left Coca Cola, I went to an internet startup and, uh, you know, look, it didn't work out and I and I'll talk a little bit about it. But what I would say is, uh, well, some people may say, Hey, you kind of derailed your career for a couple of years there. I wouldn't change anything. I actually learned a ton from it. And that learning to me, uh, facilitated a lot of other things for me. Um, so just a quick background on it. I went to a company called Living.Com out from Coca Cola. And basically what it was, it was a time when basically everyone was just slapping the name on, you know, toys.com, pets.com, living.com was this idea of furniture and home furnishings. It was kind of a precursor to Wayfair. Um, But look, it had all star investors. It had some of the biggest investors behind it. You know, if there was a sure thing at the time, this company was called it in terms of the Internet. It also had an all star cast of management. Like we had people from Pepsi that were senior leaders, P& G senior leaders, Macy's senior leaders. So like, again, in my mind, I was taking a small leap and a little risk going to a new company. But as you said, like, look, the best laid plans of mice and men can fall apart. This one did, uh, and, you know, kind of two major learnings for me. One was that we had an all star cast, but we did not work well together. We could not make everything work. So lesson number one was let's get team chemistry right. Like it is absolutely important as you're doing it. You make it work. Um, I think Farve had a quote. I had read Brett Farve. Um, it's all about the chemistry. Talent alone doesn't get it done. So I really honestly think about that often. Like you've got to make sure you've got the right chemistry on the team. Uh, you know, you've got to know you've got to subjugate your ego at times. You've got to know when to push. You've got to know how to push. You've got to do it in the right way. That really, to me, was very important. And then the other thing I learned here was, as I said, I thought this was a sure thing. Well, what I learned is that conventional wisdom doesn't always prevail and things don't go to plan always. And you've got to be ready to respond. And, uh, you know, fortunately for me, like, despite this not going well and it going belly up, I got a ton of learning. You know, we were one of the, uh, first, uh, tabs on Amazon. They had at the time, uh, if you remember Amazon, Larry, there was just books. That was what they were. Well, we were the second thing they actually sold, which was furnished and they were an investor. But yeah, that didn't work either. You know, you'd say away at the Amazon, Hey, how can things go wrong? But anyway, long and short, like to me, it just taught me, you've got to be flexible, ready to respond and ready to move on. And I, you know, value this time. I think the stuff I learned at that company from some of the, uh, development crew, the, uh, investor and the management team was, uh, incredibly powerful. And, uh, to this day still draw a lot of, uh, learning from that experience. LT: It's a good one. D DC: One of one of the best answers I think we've had in all of our podcast. But Larry, what say you? Yeah. LT: So Andrew, I'm taken with the whole thing. But where I really dial into was I'd love to for you to talk about the chemistry situation. And how that clear learning. It's the first thing you said, right? How that pervades for you today, like when you're when you're putting your team together when you're interviewing. How does that play? Andrew Springate: Yeah, I think again, it really goes back to look. We all want the superstar and the best talent. That is absolutely important. You can't replace a level talent. But I think equally important is this idea of making sure the team is going to function as team first. You know, we often talk here at Keurig Dr Pepper about being high performing team. And, you know, this again would validate it. You've got to make sure all the parts are actually able to work together and, uh, Work together with speed. You know, another thing I really believe in his business is about speed today, not size, but ability to work quickly. And if you're spending all your time, you know, kind of working on feelings and making sure you know you don't step on each other's toes and, you know, positioning things the right way, then you're not going to move as fast as you can. So to me, I am very conscious of just saying, Hey, we've got the right players. That's super important. And then making sure we actually uh, You know, operate the right way together is equally important. LT: So, Andrew, I'm sorry, D, I just want to, so, uh, but does it, when you're interviewing somebody, is that one of the things you're thinking about? Oh, this person's really talented, but you know, is that, is that a primary thought? And then also, are you doing anything as it relates with your teams to facilitate that chemistry to, to enhance it? We'd love to hear more about that. Anything you're comfortable talking about? Andrew Springate: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, like, look, just to take it from an interview perspective, when I am interviewing, to me, uh, the ability to talk about team is really important. I want to hear those kind of words. Not a lot of I. I would love to also hear a lot about collaboration. Uh, particular questions I would like to, you know, probe on generally are like, tell me about difficult Uh, conversations you've had to have and how you navigated them like those type of things are important. If you kind of get, hey, I had to fire someone. Well, that's not an easy. I mean, generally, we don't all have the luxury of firing people we can't work well with. So I would rather hear. Hey, I just That we had to sit down. We had a straight up conversation about what needed to happen. So those those type of things were imprinted on me is being really critical as you go forward. LT: That's great. DC: That's really good. So, uh, when you talked about chemistry, you, um, you evoked Brett Favre. So Brand Nerds, for those of you all who may not know, Brett Favre is a Super Bowl winning quarterback, former, uh, Hall of Fame quarterback. He grew up with the, uh, Bay Packers. So that's, uh, That's Brett Favre. And to your point, Andrew, about, uh, team versus just an individual superstar. There's another, um, NFL person, and sorry for all the sports analogies, uh, Brand Nerds, but we, we really do enjoy sports, so you're hearing our passion here. There's a, uh, a young man by the name of Antonio Brown. He may be one of the most physically gifted wide receivers to ever played the game of football. He was still very much in his prime when he was with the Pittsburgh Steelers, but they wanted him off the team because he wanted it to be about him. He then goes to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where Tom Brady asked him to come. And he could not hold it together. He could not hold it together with Tom Brady. And so Brand Nerds, for those of you out there who think you're good just by yourself. To win on a major level, not talking about a minor level, but a major level. Not true. You gotta have a team and it's gotta be chemistry, Andrew and I, and, and, and, um, and Mike and Michael and, and, and others. When we work together, we would joke with one another, we'd eat together, we'd give each other, each other shit. We do all of these things, that is, that is what represented chemistry for us. So, chemistry is very important. The second thing is that, Brand Nerds. You know, I grew up in Detroit, Detroit Public Schools. Gate Baby is the, um, is the, the son of two educators. He has a wife who's an educator. So Brand Nerds, when he uses words like subjugated, let me explain. What he means is that you have to kind of bring yourself down. Okay, I just want to make certain we don't lose anybody. We don't lose anybody. LT: Andrew, he always pulls this stuff, man, you know, like. He's the, he's the best example of the Detroit Public Schools. Seriously, you know, it's, it's hilarious. Go ahead. That's it. I'm dismissing. Andrew Springate: Hey, all I'm saying is I, I, I know this audience. I know they're highly, uh, intelligent, so I'm talking up to them. I'm not going to use it. It's going to confuse anybody. DC: Highly intelligent, highly intelligent. The Brand Nerds know, I'm just kidding. All right. Uh, great answer. Great answer. Larry. LT: Yeah. So, Andrew, the fourth question, and this is about tech regarding technology and marketing. You know, it's technology. Think about when we started our careers where technology wasn't where how important technology is for marketers today. With that backdrop, can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in and best leverage tech, or you can go to areas you think that they should be leery or simply avoid. Andrew Springate: Yeah, I, I fundamentally believe that again, we need to be thinking of technology as just a means to an end to help us as marketers and to help us connect, uh, you know, with consumers that is, you know, or people. I don't even like the word consumers. It's really, we're trying to connect with people. Technology helps us with that. One of the areas I've been spending a lot of time with Larry has really been around using machine learning to help us with return on investment. One of the challenges I think of for Brand Nerds and marketers out there really is how do we prove the value of marketing to the company and to our CFOs? To me, uh, machine learning is, uh, enabling me to be better at understanding and, uh, attributing. Performance to specific marketing tactics. I'm taking and then we're actually getting to where we can use some of these past experiences to project forward on, you know, what we expect to happen based on a similar level of investment or increased investment or, you know, using tools differently. So I fundamentally believe that marketing. fuels demand and drives companies. We've got to make sure as marketers that we prove that value to the organization, particularly CFO CEOs. And, uh, to me, that is really where I'm hoping technology can help me and us as a community really do a better job proving our results are being driven and that, you know, we have financial impact on the company. And this is not a nice to have, if you've got a little money to invest, but this is the way to go drive that demand and fuel the company and get your ideas to market. LT: This is big. Oh, I love this answer. Uh, Andrew, where, where are you in the continuum of that? Because that is just, Oh, that's so great because it's, uh, it's sort of the dentist kit, you know, the dentist kids have cavities and we, as marketers are really bad at proving our value, right? Like, I mean, and like marketing the marketing and it's brilliant that you're doing that. So where are you, uh, in, in, uh, in that project, so to speak? Andrew Springate: Yeah, probably on that. Earlier side of it. Look, I think we've all I mean, I know even when we were all working at Coke, we were doing media mix modeling and some of those things. But I think the ability to kind of augment that and use machine learning. So some of the stuff that is now coming with all the data we do have is that we can provide better attribution. And I think now the machine learning part of it is allowing us to project forward. So look, we're relatively early days. You know, I would love to say, Hey, I've got it all nailed and we're all done. Doing a great job, but this is something I'm spending a lot of time on. And, uh, you know, as I kind of said, Hey, what difference can I make in 24? This is one of the ones that is really, uh, on my radar. It's a big opportunity to up my game, uh, you know, kind of continue to improve what we do here at Kerig Dr. Pepper and, you know, build, uh, build trust in our community. LT: Ooh, love this. DC: That's good. This reminds me of, uh, the value of fundamentals. And what I mean by that is with AI. Or machine learning and other AI things and whatever will be after AI, there will be more and more opportunities for marketers to leverage said technology to have more effectiveness in, uh, execution, attribution, forecasting, et cetera. So these things make the ability to do that, uh, easier, easier. But that does not mean that the fundamentals of marketing are any less important. And Larry and I would dare say, Andrew, even more important, even more important. So Brand Nerds think of the marketing discipline as a, as a, like a pizza. All right. And, um, sometimes what we marketers do is we go, Oh, there's this new thing over here called performance marketing. Why don't we just switch the whole pizza out and have a new pizza called performance marketing? No, you don't do that the pizza you're gonna have dough you're gonna have tomato sauce or paste and you're gonna have cheese Now, if you want to put some anchovies on or some pepperonis, that's all fine, but you don't get rid of the whole pizza. And so what I'm happy to hear from this is what it sounds like, Andrew, as you talk about machine learning, you are not talking about throwing the whole pizza out that you currently have and replacing it with a whole new pizza called machine learning. This makes me happy. LT: Yes. Andrew Springate: Love it. Absolutely right, Darryl. LT: All right. DC: Do you want to go to the next question? I do. Thank you. Thanks, Larry. Gate baby. What are you most proud of? Andrew Springate: Uh, good. Well, let me start by saying I'm thankful what I have. I have really enjoyed the ride and I think, you know, one of the things I'm most thankful for and that is kind of the relationships I've had both at work, you know, been great, but also very thankful for family. And I feel like the work I have done has enabled those to be strong and you. Be well. So, uh, very thankful for that. Probably what I'm most proud of is that I have been able to make a difference on brands I really care about. So, you know, starting with Sprite, I think, uh, it was awesome, uh, you know, moving on to our company, uh, current company, Dr Pepper, uh, you know, Snapple, uh, you know, the Keurig brand, uh, some of the great brands we have, that's been, for me, what I, uh, I'm most proud of because I think I've been part of some of the biggest brands that are Americana, uh, that, you know, people recognize and love and, and it's just been a joy being able to do that. I think the how for me is something I'm also proud of it. I think I've had to do a lot of reinvention and continuous learning. You know, there's always something new as a marketer. If you've been doing this, I guess I'm getting close to 30 years now, you have to continue to kind of learn and reinvent. You know, you always talk about Madonna or Beyonce, but that's true in our careers, too. If you're going to run a long play, you've got to learn new media. You've got to understand what influences are, how to, you know. Manage a data economy, you know, a I all these things. So it's for me. That's been the fun part is, you know, reinvention, continuous learning and doing it on things I'm passionate about. And to me that that is what I'm most proud of, because I think I've been able to input and impact all those brands. But, you know, having the chance to kind of learn and do it on the way. DC: That's good. That's really good. LT: I have to ask you this, Andrew, with being surrounded by educators, both in growing up and then obviously with your wife, Christine, has, does that play into, like, what's the chicken and egg here? Does that play into you being, you know, curious and valuing, you know, always learning? Or is that something that's just part of your DNA? Andrew Springate: Um, it's probably somewhere in the background. I mean, what I would say, I mean, I think it's true of any profession. You've probably got to be curious and kind of willing to continuously learn to reinvent yourself. I mean, we've been talking a lot about athletes, but if you look at the best athletes They generally have changed how they train, what they're eating, how they're doing it, and they're always on to the next thing. I feel like that's very true of, uh, marketing also. Like, you've gotta be looking around the corner and trying to say what's next. And, um, so, yeah, hopefully it's a little bit inherent, but I also think it's something, uh, to be cognizant of for all of us, just to, hey, if you're gonna continue to grow in a single line of, uh, profession, you gotta continue to say what's next and how do I add that skill set and ability. DC: I don't think there's anything more to cover in that section. Oh, that's awesome. Wow. Mm. Really good, brother. Really good. LT: All right, D. Andrew Springate: I hope so. If this all gets edited out, I'll, I'll know. So, uh, I may be writing a little agendum at the bottom of something here. DC: No, this ain't getting edited out. This ain't getting edited out. All right. All right, LT. LT: Alright, D, let's move to the next section. So what's poppin DC: What's poppin LT: This is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. Uh, if you guys don't mind, I'm going to take the lead on this one. So, uh, we are sitting here, again, our producers don't like us to date this, but we're sitting here in mid January, and not too long ago, uh, it was January 8th, by the way, that Nike and Tiger Woods went their separate ways. Quite frankly, I thought this would be a lot more newsworthy. Um, maybe since it had been rumored for quite some time and maybe part of it is Tiger, certainly not the Tiger of 2004. I'm going to read you just a part of the press release, uh, that Nike put out. It said, quote, for over 27 years, we have had the honor to partner with Tiger Woods, one of the greatest athletes the world has ever seen. Throughout the course of our partnership, we have witnessed along with the rest of the world, how Tiger not only redefined the sport of golf, but broke barriers for all of sport. We watch them set records, challenge conventional thinking, and inspire generations of people around the globe. We are grateful to have been part of it. We wish him the best in the future. So really, when I think about it, guys, and I'd love to hear what you all think. You can probably go back to 2016 when Nike decided to get out of the golf equipment business to see this coming. Right. And the fact that he's 48 years old right now. So also 2023, the, the Nike stock went down precipitously. And by the way, that's coming after I and I, I looked this up, the Colin Kaepernick ads, which, which obviously we talked about this on the show. We're very controversial. That happened in 2018 and the stock price hit the highest of highs. And so they, that certainly drove Nike and the Nike brand for a while. But when you think about it, Tiger's 48, they're not in the golf equipment business anymore. And. If you really think about the arc of the brand, this kind of makes sense. And when I, when I really didn't think about it, I'm like, Oh, how could they let Tiger go? But the more I think about it, the more I just put forth those things that have happened. I kind of see why they did this. So what do you all think DC: Andrew? Andrew Springate: Um, I have not done a lot of deep thinking on it, but just my gut reaction is that. Maybe time. I mean, you know, I certainly think that there are natural ends to partnerships. What I would say is what Nike and Tiger Woods accomplished was phenomenal. Like, when I look back on what that was, how they grew golf, how they grew participation with the younger generation, brought in Black America, I think that was phenomenal. Uh, you know, look, I know they were still making hundreds of millions of dollars, uh, as recently as, uh, you know, 2015, I think so. Obviously, it was a flourishing partnership. Um, but look, I think everything does run its course at some point. Um, the interesting thing for me, if I were Nike, I would, I, I think there is still opportunity in golf, and I would have tried to find the next version of that, and, uh, maybe bridge it with Tiger Woods, because I think, uh, actually, as we've seen in hip hop, kind of, kind of people have stood on the shoulders of their, their fathers there, and, you know, kind of made the next best thing, and, and contemporized it, I think Nike may have had that opportunity with, uh, Tiger Woods, but, uh, we'll see, uh, it's certainly a nice, uh, I think Tiger has done a phenomenal job of broadening golf. LT: Well, they did have Royal Rory McIlroy, you know, who, so they did try and do it, but there's only one Tiger, right? There's only one Tiger. So for sure. D I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. That's great stuff, Andrew, by the way. DC: I think they made, they being Nike made the right decision to cut ties with Tiger. And I say that because, uh, going back to fundamentals, uh, Larry, when Andrew and I worked together at Coca Cola as we were looking at either NBA players to partner with and or hip hop artists are criteria or other partnerships like the NBA itself, which give Michael Guth his his flowers. He was that the lead of that. Um, we would ask ourselves. Is it? Do we benefit more from leveraging this person or asset? I know I'm sounding crass to speak of humans in terms of asset, but just think brand assets, but it's reality. Yeah, do we benefit from that leverage more? Or do they? And then if we if we decided we were going to benefit our brand is going to benefit a campaign is going to benefit, then it's worth it. Yep. So if that is, and when I say benefit, I mean, not just brand metrics, but also volumetrically, are we going to sell more stuff? So let me go to two examples of one where this is working really well. And one where it did not work at all. Here's where it works really well for the, uh, Dr. Pepper college football campaign. They went and got Brian Bosworth, Brian Bosworth as the sheriff. The town sheriff. All right now, genius to think of the boss because you know, boss has his lovers and his haters, but I'm sure that that Andrew and team thought we agency included, we get this guy, we leverage that that's going to do something for our brand because true college football fans would understand the genius of going to get So that's a time where it worked and they have been growing now. Let's let's conversely talk about a marketing campaign that was considered to be genius when it happened, but it ain't worked out so well. And that is Snoop dog and the solo stove. Yeah. That whole. That was a stunt. It was a fantastic stunt. No more smoke for me. The CEO just this week or last resigned because they didn't sell anything. So let me go back to Nike. I don't think they found a way to justify continuing it because they weren't selling anything because of Tiger Woods. Gotta let him go. Yeah, gotta let him go. LT: Yeah, I also think that the reality of the business today is I, I was just looking this up and prepping for this, that, um, uh, Nike's, uh, share of the running shoe business with brands like Hoka, which is really taking, DC: and so that's their core. Right. LT: And they're losing market share to folks like that. And let's face it. Tiger doesn't do a thing. He's a cost to them, to your point D when it comes to having to deal with bright, like base brand stuff. Right. Yes. Yes. And also. Again, Andrew, you're going to laugh at this. We say this a lot. Good old Sergio, Sergio Zeman, you know, who was the CMO of Coke when we were there. Sergio had a lot of, a lot of great sayings. And one of them was that you have to reinvent your brand every day. And so you wake up and Tiger's 48 and he's hurt and he's, what does he really, to your point, D, what does he really add? If they kept the golf business, right? Yeah. DC: I mean, that's different. LT: It's a whole different thing. Then he could be the Jordan brand, shall we say, but why I say, once you leave with in 2016, once they leave the golf business. It's all but done at that point because he doesn't, he doesn't convey the things that they need in 2024 and beyond as it relates to the core of their business. So I think we're all saying the same thing. Andrew Springate: Yeah, I concur fully. Yeah, it's one of those, I think he, you know, appeals obviously older and today if you're going to win, you're going to be picking up the Gen Zennials and Millennials and he probably has less relevance with that. Certainly a lot of relevance for me and maybe you folks, but yeah, that's why I think that if they were going to do anything, they got to bridge it for a little bit. Anyway, we will, uh, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully Nike will continue to flourish. I have no doubt Tiger will. DC: Yes, both will. I'll just say this really quickly. Um, for fansville, this is Dr. Pepper's, uh, campaign. I love fansville, just the best of the best. Uh, could they have been fine with. Uh, Bryce Young. Sure. Bryce Young's great. Wonderful campaign. Him displacing a, uh, a son of a family because they're football fans. That's funny. Uh, it, it, it, it makes quite a bit of sense strategically. Did they really need Caleb Williams? Could they have continued to run the play back with Bryce, of course, but, but they recognize, okay, this dude here, one time Heisman trophy winner projected to be a two time Heisman trophy winner, likely to be the number one player taken in an NFL draft. We can leverage that and get something from it. Caleb, come on in and talk about how you don't have any superstitions as you wear 13 and walk under a, uh, a ladder. This is when you make these decisions. This is when and why you make them. Yeah. LT: Yeah. Great stuff. Oh, how fun was this? DC: Ah, man, man. LT: Andrew, we appreciate it. Andrew Springate: It was a blast for me. This is, yeah. I mean, I feel like, uh, we scratched the surface. I probably have to pick up the phone and call you guys and just have a talk on some fun just to, uh, be with you guys again, but yeah, it was a lot of fun. Thank you guys. And, uh, I always love reflecting on what has worked and what we can do better. So I'd love to love to hear your thoughts too. LT: Yeah, no, we, we, we might have to take you up on that, by the way. Uh, but before we go, uh, we posit our, uh, we posit our learnings and, uh, and, you know, mine are the good left brain ones. And DC takes, takes these to heights, as you've listened to, which are, which are incredible. So I'm going to start with mine. So, um, Andrew, I had a hard time culling it down. There's so many. Um, so I have seven of them. So number one, like Andrew learned from his days, driving the Frito Lay truck, starting at three in the morning in your job, Brand Nerds appreciate the unsung team members and hard workers around you. That's one of the things Andrew took from that job to this day. I love that, right? So that's number one. Like Andrew said about DC, this is number two. Think unconventionally. Think differently and figure out how that that can help you in your job and your life. Number three, as like Andrew's boss, I love this, be a get stuff done person and do it with people first. That's number three. Number four, as a leader, be very mindful of team chemistry and how it plays for the team that you're working for and on. Number five, as Andrew does in interviews. When you're in an interview situation, brand nerds, you should be thinking about team and collaboration. Those are important things as, especially in the brand management perspective. You better be good at that. And so they're important items for you to convey. And conversely, when you're doing the interviewing, like Andrew does, you need to be thinking about, uh, what people are saying and if they are organically talking about those things. That's number five. Number six. As marketers like Andrew is doing with machine learning, you should always be thinking about how you can prove and then communicate the real value of your marketing, marketing endeavors. And last one, like Andrew talked towards the end in his, uh, in, in, in the proud section, you should always be curious and thinking about what's next and how you can be part of the solution of what's next. So those are my seven. DC: Those are great. Those are great. Larry. All right, Andrew, we had a former guest on our podcast named Oren, and I think his last name may be, uh, pronounced Katsev. LT: That's correct. Oren Katzev. DC: He had a phrase that describes the best brands, stories, movies, books, content, what makes them great. They all have one thing in common. The stuff you don't know about the stuff you know. The stuff you don't know about the stuff you know. And I'm having one of these moments with you right now. I, I think I know you pretty well. Uh, Andrew, the benefit of this podcast is now I learned a lot of stuff. I didn't know about the stuff that I thought I knew. And it's in that vein that I'm going to share what is my takeaway from this and what I think makes you unique walking this planet. Um, usually there, there are a couple of answers to a couple of questions that helped me go, ah, this is, this is what's going on with the person that's before me. But in this case, Andrew, I can't point to one or two different questions or that this thing literally pervaded the entire conversation. And here is where it's it's had me land. LT: Will be careful. Andrew, you're gonna hold the phone on this. Andrew Springate: All right. DC: David, your father educator, hardworking educator retires at 83. LT: That's amazing. DC: Yeah, most folks are not retiring at 83. They're retiring at 63, maybe 73, not 83. So that's David, Diana, a teacher. So also in the field of education educator works until midnight, performing what she needed to do for her family, so that you and others were well taken care of. So you have these two seminal people in your life, both educators, then what do you do? You marry Christine, who's also an educator. So your mother, father, and your wife, which has me conclude that you yourself, your special sauce is around education. And so I looked up what makes the best teachers. Now there's several attributes. Andrew and, uh, and Larry. But here are the three that I picked out. Empathy, adaptability, and lifelong learning. These three things. Every one of your answers had some of that in it. When you talked about people delivering, uh, and, um, and putting displays out and thinking about them, that's empathy. When you talked about living. com and moving from one CPG to living. com to another CPG and not wanting to change everything anything that's adaptability and this machine learning and everything else that you've talked about is around lifelong learning. So I believe that you are in fact, the Confucius of the marketing game. That's what I think you are. And I think you have been reared to serve that role. LT: Oh, I love it. DC: Yeah. Andrew Springate: Well, I think that may be a little high, but I do love the idea of, uh, having the opportunity to keep on thinking about marketing and how we evolve. And that is the fun part and, uh, Educating and passing along what we know, obviously, as you guys well know, cause that's what you do, uh, every time you do one of these podcasts is also the fun part. I, we, we learned from each other and that I love. LT: No doubt. So speaking of that, anything that you picked up from our conversation that you want to share as we put a bow on this for the Brand Nerds? Andrew Springate: Uh, no, I mean, I like, yes, I mean, I shouldn't say no, I didn't pick up anything. I actually had a lot of deep thought with you guys that I really enjoyed. Um, what I would say is what you guys are pulling through, uh, the continuous learning, the ability to, uh, kind of pass along what you know and do it in an empathetic manner is really important and, uh, you know, to me that was what I wanted to land and, and I've loved about my career and I think that is a true reflection and a thread that pulls through almost every one of your podcasts that I've listened to, uh, I kind of get that same, uh, desire to pass along knowledge and share what you have learned. So, uh, I thank you guys for the opportunity and thank folks for listening today. LT: You landed it and we appreciate that because that is truly one of the main reasons why we started this podcast six years ago from the Stanford campus, which is incredible. So thank you for that. So brand nerds, thanks so much for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman, and Hailey Cobbin and Jade Tate and Tom DiOro DC: The pod father LT: That is he. And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple podcasts, if you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.