Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 21, Season 2: The Pain of the Dismissive Avoidant

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Episode 21, Season 2: The Pain of the Dismissive Avoidant · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner, founder,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and CEO of the love Doc relationship coaching services. You
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: can find her at the lovedock dot com or on
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: all of her social media handles at doctor Sarah hence Lee. Hey,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: how do you hold on? Let's this is interesting. I
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: want to settle the debate on how your last name
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: is pronounced hencelely thank you, because so many people say Hensley.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I know, and my daughter's just changed their name from
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: being adopted, and it drives my oldest daughter nuts.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Now she's like hence Lee, hen Hensley, like s. It's
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: very prominent.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, so it's spelled.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: It sounds as if it's spelled h n h E
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: n c E with the L y on the end.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's well, that's also the S sound right right, yes,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: but the English language, everybody is putting a Z in there.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Hensley. Yeah, no, it's Hensley. But you'll answer to whatever,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: So it's whatever.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Whatever. I'm not gonna correct you.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I haven't called everything but rain on my whole life.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I can assure you haven't called Renee.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Rain with an a.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I know, it's so simple and like even my Starbucks
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: cup today says Rainier rain. I'm like, man, but I
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: will say I've gotten So I've gotten rain Rainy, which
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: is my least favorite. Renee that might be my least
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: favorite too, but my all time, all time favorite that
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I was called one time was Raine, and so I've
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: said from ever since I was called Reine, I was like,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that's like my alter ego.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Now, like Reine, what's a girl?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: What's up?
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: It just rhyme right, Like I feel like that's like
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: my alter ego. That's hilarious.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Today we're going to talk about the DA's pain. Yeah,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: but should we think our affiliate first?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we should budget Listen, guys, I was literally laying
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: in bed this morning thinking about what how I could
• 2:11
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• 2:15
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• 2:17
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• 2:24
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• 2:29
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• 2:32
  Speaker 2: the degree at any given time in the night, and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: so if I can't be that exact temperature, my body
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: is like, why are you trying to kill me?
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: What are you doing?
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: What are you doing?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I was cold and then I was hot because you know,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I mean it was like one hundred and ten degrees
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: in Arizona. So we would chill the room down. But
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: then as the sun would start to rise and that
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: heat would come in, like early in the morning, it
• 2:59
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  Speaker 2: And we got we got a negative comment about a rambling,
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• 5:22
  Speaker 1: dollars off. Okay, all right, Pain of the Dismissive Avoidance
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: and we definitely want to, you know, show our compassion
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: in this episode because we have gotten a few reviews
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: of people saying that we don't like the dismissive avoidance
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: or we're harsh on the dismissive avoidance.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: No, it's just that they tend to cause the most pain,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: and I'm sorry about that, but that's that's just the
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: true truth. But it's not we're not villainizing anybody. All
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: attachment styles cause pain. If you're on the other end
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: of their dysfunction, absolutely that can cause a pain.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: So I think.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: The DA pain is just it resonates with a lot
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: of people, and people are kind of obsessed with the DA.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And you can look through my social media and you
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: can see that the DA videos are going to always
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: perform three times more than any of the other attachment
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: videos because people are just fascinated. They're fascinated. And so
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of people mistakenly think that the DA doesn't
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: have any pain. And what I will say is they
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: have very deep pain. Their pain is so deep that
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: their brain oftentimes dissociates from it and won't let them
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: feel it because the brain goes, if we have to
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: feel this, we might die. That's some deep, deep, deep pain, guys.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So instead of villainizing the DA and saying, oh, well,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: they just don't care, no, their nervous system goes, if
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: we feel this, will die. So we're just going to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: pull the plug on our emotions. That's a trauma response.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm not again giving excuses or saying you have
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: to put up with it. That is not the message
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: here either. Let's be very very clear about that. It's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: just going to illuminate for you. You that pain comes in
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: all shapes and sizes and experiences, and because the DA
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: has this unique ability to suppress it, that's not a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: great life either. Because they walk around very numb. They
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: can't access joy or happiness either. They might it's surface level,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: they might laugh at something, but they don't experience like
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the deep joy and happiness that you and.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: I would experience. But they don't know that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: They don't know there's anything different out there then, And
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: that's probably the number one piece of feedback that I
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: get from a DA, besides oh my gosh, my relationship
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: is eighteen times better since I've earned my security. But
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: holy crap, this is what joy feels like. I had
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: no idea how blunted I was to joy.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: How beautiful because joy is like like it's the secret man.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: It's so great.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Joy. It's different than happiness. It's different than happiness. Happiness
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: fluctuates based on situation. Joy is an inner contentment that
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: is very connected to the present moment and when you
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: start really experiencing that, and the only way you can't
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: experience that is when your nervous system feels safe enough
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to then you will realize that you were missing out
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: on this huge piece of your life that is a
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: beautiful gift from God. And so let's talk about the
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: DA pain alone.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to start with like the origins of
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: the popean right like so specifically like early childhood dynamics
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: that set them up for the DA disconnect.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: So we did an episode on the DA and I
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: don't want to be too repetitive, but that was last season.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: This is a new season. We might have new followers
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: that have not gone back and caught up. So dismissive
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: avoidance is primarily created through childhood emotional neglect. So but
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: the key is the majority of the time they don't
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: know they were neglected. About eighty five to ninety percent
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: of the das I see in my practice would describe
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: their childhood as quote good, my parents were around, My
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: parents loved each other. I knew they loved me. But
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: then when I go deeper with them and I ask
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: them this very triggering question, which is could you go
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to your parents for emotional support when you were a child,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: and I actually have to explain what emotional support looks like.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: It's not like, hey mom, I have a problem, what
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: do I do? It's hey mom or hey dad, this
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: happened to me and I feel sad, confused, lonely, rejected, fearful, whatever.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It's actually describing your emotional experience and them attuning to
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: that emotional experience, them acknowledging your emotions, them soothing you
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: through your emotions. Did that happen for you? And their
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: eyes will just get so wide like that no, And
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: then I always ask them why not? And most of
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the time they're puzzled by that question. They're like, I
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: don't know. I just wouldn't have done it well. And
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I say, well, did you not feel comfortable or did
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: they respond poorly when you tried? I just can't remember
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: doing it. Just we just didn't talk about emotions in
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: our house. That's the most common thing I hear. And
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: so when I ask them about how their parents handle
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: different situations and what were some things that they said,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: it was always they had this kind of same response
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: of well, they would just kind of tell me, like
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: life's tough, and I would be Okay, that's just part
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: of life, and there's truth to that, and yes, we
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: have to teach people grit. And there's a balance there
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: between giving proper emotional attuonement and empathy to your children
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and holding boundaries and letting them sit in some difficulty,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: because yes, that is life. Life is very difficult. But
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: they missed out on the whole emotional attuonement thing. There
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: was never a time where the parents were able to go, oh, wow,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I can understand why you would feel that way. I
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: can see that you're feeling really sad. Oh, i'd understand
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: that you're scared about that. Yeah, And they don't realize
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that that wasn't normal because being dismissed and your emotions
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: can look very benign, can look very benevolent.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: It can look like you're okay, we do that to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: babies all the time.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Instead of being like, oh, I know, it's okay,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: it's okay, but you know, it's like.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Just trying to shit it away.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It can look like, oh, that's not something to cry about,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: that's not a big deal.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't be crying about that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I'm just never like watching your parents repair conflict.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I think it can be. Yeah, it can absolutely be.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Like parents always would go off to like argue or
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: have conflict in silence, and then there was no real
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: modeled behavior of what it looked like to have conflict
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and then repair it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: So let me just give you two sort of side
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: by side demonstrations. Let's say we have five year old
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: little Johnny who is bullied in kindergarten. He goes to
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: his first day of kindergarten and the kids are all
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: mean to him. They all made fun of his lunchbox,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and he comes home and Johnny really sad and he says, Mom,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: everybody made fun of my lune and people were teasing
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: me all day and I didn't have any friends, and
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm just sad, and you know, I don't
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: know why they were picking on me. And a mother
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: who was more on the avoidant side that would go
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: on to raise a dismissive avoidant son would say, oh,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: you can't let them bother you. Don't ever let them
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: see you sweat. They just want to see your reaction,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: so just act like it doesn't bother you and they'll stop.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: So what did that mom do?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Didn't at all acknowledge that that child's feelings were valid,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: that social rejection is painful, and that child was afraid
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: of it happening again tomorrow, or afraid that they would
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: be without friends, or that they were sad or they
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: felt rejected or worthless or lonely or whatever. That mom
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: just said, Oh, don't let that bother you. And that
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: really conveys the message that the fact that they were
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: bothered was wrong, and no strategy around how to cope
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: And this is such an innocent mistake.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: It is such an innocent parents ying mistake, but it's
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a huge one that has profound, profound consequences. And I
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: know this because that was what my mom would say
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: to me when I was a kid. I love my mom,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I do. She's a dag.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, I've probably said that to my own child.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, and then the child looks around and
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: they're like, well, how do I make this feeling go away?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And so the primary primary thing they will do is
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: they will go and try to distract themselves. So they
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: will go into their own fantasy world. They will watch cartoons,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: they will try to go play play This Day and Age,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: play video games for doomscroll on YouTube, and that serves
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: as a way to distract the mind from the pain
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: that's occurring in the body of emotion. So the feelings
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: component of emotion happens through the body. That's why processing
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: emotion has to happen through the body. It can't happen
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: through the mind, can't happen through talking. It has to
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: happen through feeling. And so the mom did not attune.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: To the child.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: The mom was not dialed in around what the child
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: was feeling and experiencing and helping that child to understand
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: what they were feeling and experiencing, and that it was
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: a good thing that the child was telling the mom
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: these things. Because vulnerability is part of intimacy, and the
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: first mirrors of intimacy we have are our parents when
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: we are children. So that is why they form the
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: blueprint of what intimacy is, and that is why we
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: play it out in adulthood because it stays with us
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: in our subconscious. A very emotionally attuned parent who is
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: raising a secure child would have sat down with that child,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: probably had some physical touch like put the child on
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the lap, or at least got eye level with the child,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: you know, was physically close, and would say wow, I
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: can see why that would make you feel really sad.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: It's not okay when people do that, and of course
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: it would make you feel lonely or angry, or I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: can understand why you would be afraid to go back
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: to school tomorrow and that doesn't feel good, and just
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: let me comfort you through that. So what that does
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: is the child is sitting in their pain in that
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: moment with their parent. The pain is in their chest,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it's in their stomach, it's in their heart, it's in
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: their jaw. It's all happening somatically, and they are experiencing
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: safety of a regulated and caring parent while those feelings
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: are happening in the body. So what does the brain
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: start to wire together? My difficult emotions that happen in
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: my body are okay, and I can tolerate them, and
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: in fact, when I share them vulnerably, it leads me
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to safety. And then of course after that, you know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: come here, baby, you are Come here, and just let
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: me give you a hug, and I'll sit with you,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and we help the child name what they were feeling,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: why they were feeling it, that it was normal for
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: them to feel it, that it's good that they talked
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: about it, and then they got to borrow their parents'
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: nervous system. So we have these neurons in our brain
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: called mirror neurons that when someone else displaying an action,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: our mirror neurons are firing as if we're doing that action.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: So when we have a regulated parent and they are
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: kind and they are vulnerable, but they're not getting upset
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: with us, like if we're crying, but they're not crying,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and they're not angry and they're not whatever. What we're
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: wiring together in the brain is I am safe while
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I am being vulnerable, and I am safe while these
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: difficult emotions are turning through my body. So secure kids
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: end up growing up with the nervous system that doesn't
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: start to get dysregulated around vulnerability or around intimacy, were
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: around emotions, and then they learned their brain learns how
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: to feel emotions through the body and integrate them into
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: the psyche, so they have proper emotional completion cycles, which
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: is really what leads to long term nervous system stability.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Man, you got to do this secure parenting program.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: It is so yay.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am going to be dropping a self paced
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: coaching program called raising secure kids because my kids were
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: very much not secure and now I do believe that
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: they have so much security, and I'm.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: So proud of the work.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: It's such important work, important it starts their long term outcome.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: It's truly where it has to start. And if parents,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: if all parents could learn because information, Oh my gosh,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: if i'd known this information when jaf he was little,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be in this place now where I'm like, Oh,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I knew it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But I couldn't execute it because my nervous system couldn't
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: tolerate it because I was in crisis and an abusive relationship.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: So I knew this, but I couldn't execute it. That's
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: where the capacity comes in.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Awareness is not enough. You have to fix your own.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Nervous system, and you have to be aware of your
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: own dissociation, your own dismissing, your own activation, your own reactivity.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to build capacity to stop
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: doing those things. It's not just no to do better.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: If you're fighting with your husband, your nervous system is disregulated, You're.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Not going to be able to give that type of
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: attunement to your child.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: And I know that you see this all the time.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Doc. But you know, on the call, another call that
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I had the other day, something you know that the
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: potential client said was like him and his partner had
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: so much knowledge. They had so much knowledge. They had
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: been through group therapy multiple times, they had done church groups,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: they had done individual therapy, they had done marriage therapy,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: they had gone on retreats. I mean, they had literally
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: done it all.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I just wish I had a dollar for every time
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a client came to me and says, I've done everything.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: You know who you are.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: You're Obi Wan Kenobe.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: You're the last hope I've never watched if any works.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: I'm a Star Wars geek.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So if you're a stun and my beautiful stepdaughter loves
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Star Wars, start trying to get me to watch it,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm just always in.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: A bo and you know what I mean, because it's like,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: I heard it, or Princess, I hear it.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: All.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Here's where they find me when I start talking about
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: awareness versus capacity, That's when they go, oh my gosh,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I've gotten years of awareness, but nobody's ever helped me
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: build my capacity to execute what I know I should
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: be doing. And that is where my tools are fundamentally
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: different than I think where you will find anyone else,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I agree, And because that was me, because I could
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: have a freaking doctorate in this and still be borderline
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: psycho in my relationships.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: And not be able to execute it, and.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: Not be able to execute secure attachment when the only
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: thing I ever wanted to do for my kids was
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: be a secure parent. I read all the books on
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: attachment parenting. I studied the science on attachment parenting, and
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I promise you, with each one of my babies, I
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: thought I was gonna nail it, and then I couldn't
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: because I was in such a dysfunctional relationship and my
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: nervous system was so disregulated constantly that I couldn't regulate
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: and attune to my children properly. And even my sweet
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: fourteen year old was like, you were really emotionally unavailable
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid. And I've had to work
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: through that with her and repair that and apologize, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: of course she never realized that's so beautiful. My daughter
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: is in such a healthy relationship. She is in high school.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: She has our first boyfriend, and I'm not gonna lie
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: sometimes I read her phone because I'm going to read
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: her phone because yeah, I'm going to make sure she's
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: not doing anything bad. And just the way that they
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: settle little disagreements and the way she will set a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: boundary or she'll communicate clearly or she and she gets
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: empathy and understanding and validation, like how about ball my
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: house help Because I'm like, if any child was raised
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: with more dysfunction, it was her. And to know that
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: she like we've been able to do that work with
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: each other, to form a secure attachment between us and
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a secure attachment between her and her adopted dad is
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: like such a beautiful thing. And she will go to
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Donald sometimes over me because he's able to just just
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: be this father figure. And let me just give you
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: a side note about the importance of fathers. This is
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: why the Charlie Kirk thing hurt me so bad, because
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I raised two girls who lost their dad, and my
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: dads play such an important role, Like the role of
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: a mother is very much a nurturer, very much the
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: more on the side of empathy, more on the side
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: of soothing, whereas dads are not supposed to be emotionally unavailable.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. Absolutely, they have to validate
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and have empathy, but their job is to pull the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: child a little bit more to the side of grit
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and sitting in difficulty and realizing that you're not going
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: to get what you want and stepping in for the
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: mom and say no, you got to listen to your mom. Nope,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: And they're like that boundary place right, And so the
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: mother is there to nurture and to show softness and
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: to teach the child empathy and softness and leaning in
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: and vulnerability. And then the dad balance that balances that
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: out with a little bit more grit, a little bit
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: more of rough and tumble, a little bit more of no,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you got to sit in difficulty. So not that we
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: want dads to just teach stoicism and grit. We're not
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: saying that because that's not all great either, but some
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: of that, Yes, it's a balance. It's it's like a
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: string that needs to be pulled at both ends to
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: be taught in the middle, which makes sense.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Which makes me think, you know, specifically for the dismissive avoidant,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I'm really curious, can you break down like what that
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: relationship does it look different for the father of a
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: dismissive avoidant versus the mother or is it just typically
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that they both have a mother and father that are
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: very emotionally disconnected.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I think it was very typical for both mom and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: dad to be emotionally disconnected, and oftentimes there was this dynamic,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: especially in the boomer generation.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: And again I'm not trying to pick on boomers. If
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: you're a boomer, we love you. But there's cultural and
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: generational trends in parenting.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: It's no one's fault.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: It's no one's fault. It's the part of our culture.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And you were just the information you were given was
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: like cried out that kind of stuff right. A lot
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: of times there was a dad who was very hard nosed,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: very toe the line, focus on responsibility and achievement, no
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: emotion very emotionally unavailable with their children. And then there
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: was a mom who would try to maybe give a
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: little bit of a tuoment, but dad would step in
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and say, don't baby them.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so she just had to follow suits.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So she just had to follow suit in order to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: not have conflict with dad. So and that tended to
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: be more with men. It was because there's this cultural
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: pressure for men to not cry and not be babies
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: or whatever. That would be what the dad was trying
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: to accomplish, but then there wasn't the other end of
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the string of the mom's nurturing and attunement to try
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: to give a little bit. But then when we have
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: someone when we have drastically different parents, when we have
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: one mom that's very over emotional, overly nurturing, dropping boundaries
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: and not holding boundaries with kids, and then we have
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: hard nose and emotionally unavailable dad, We're going to get
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: an anxious proscitis.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: So then you get an AP.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Then you get an AP because that's intermittent reinforcement. One
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: person no boundaries, the other person way too many boundaries.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: So yes, that's an anxious avoidant trap right there that
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: the child is in in real time with their parents.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So going back to the childhood of the DA, it's
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: really important to give empathy but also hold boundaries and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: then be consistent with those boundaries.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: And so the DA learned very early.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: On that emotions were shameful, they were nobody else's business.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Speaking about them got you rejected.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: So they have a very deep wound of rejection, and
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of people don't understand that it's very deep
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: wound of rejection. Almost unconscious, like they don't even know
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that it's there because they will reject before it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: It's a soft way.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: I wish I kind of had that.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, well, let's talk about this pain and then
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a major defectiveness wound. Because if you are a little
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: child and you are trying to show your emotion and
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: you get dismissed, ignored, or punished, what happens is is
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: you internalize this fact that I must there must be
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: something wrong with me, that I have these things called
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: feelings when nobody else does. So that is where the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: defectiveness wound is born. And that's their primary attachment wound,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: which makes them all traus sensitive to criticism because they
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: feel if you point out a flaw, it's not fixable
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: for them. That is what their subconscious says. And that's
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: what I really want to reiterate today. And the pain
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: of the DA is that there's so much internalized shame
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: tied to defectiveness. Let's contrast that with the I am
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: not good enough of the anxious, preoccupied I am not
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: good enough. The AP just says, well, but give me
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: a chance. I'll try harder, and they do. They perpetually
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: try and try and try to be better because they
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: have this false sense that I can somehow figure my
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: partner out in exactly what they need and then turn
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: myself into that. I can twist myself into the right
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: type of pretzel and then I will be loved. But
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: a DA says, why bother trying? Because I'm inherently broken
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: and I can't give you what you need. That is
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: a hopeless emotion. That is a helpless emotion, and that
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: comes with significant shame. And this is part of why
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: we see their conflict response being soft fight to freeze
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: most of the time. Sometimes we see fonn to freeze,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: but most of the time it's soft fight irritation, frustration, defensiveness,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: and then shut down. Because there's two ways we can
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: deal with shame, and this is subconscious. They don't know
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: they're experiencing this shame when it bubbles up and my
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: brain notices it before they consciously understand it. They go, well, okay,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: The subconscious goes, well, okay, we've got to fight it off.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: That's our first line strategy against shames. Fight it So
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: they're going to tell you you're too sensitive, this is
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: your problem, you took it the wrong way. This isn't
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: a big deal and they shouldn't be getting upset. Or
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: maybe they just can't give you what you what you need.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: That's the defectiveness spoken out loud. Maybe I just can't
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: give you what you need. And DA partners are very
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: well familiar with hearing that. Yes, so they try to
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: fight it. But when fight doesn't work, especially if you're
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: if you're with an FA, that fight response is not
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: going to work because the FA is going to triple
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: down on their need to be understood and they are
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: going to get more activated and more reactive, and the
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: DA is gonna the brain is going to go, Okay,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: that didn't work. So we got to hide from our shame.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: We got to shut down, and we got to dissociate
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: from it. That's the only that's the only other strategy
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: there is.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they just wave the white flag of surrender.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: And really true healing for the DA comes when they're
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: able to face the pain of the shame and their
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: body and let it sematically process and do the work
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: to pair it with safety, like I teach and my
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Soulest technique which is now trademarked. Yeah, and it comes
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: from the science. It's very well, very very very well
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: validated in the science that we need to classically condition
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: safety when we feel our emotions, and there's a couple
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: different ways we can do that. I tend to prefer
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the breathwork patterns that I teach, and so they can't
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: face it. They can't, it's so much shame. And then
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of times what happens is if they're slow
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: to compartmentalize and associate, their pain is felt very very deeply,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: maybe for a short period of time, but it's felt.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: But then they get the long term pain of living
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: life in a numbed, suppressed state where they can't generate
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: true intimacy with anybody, and that's eventually painful too. When
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: they have a relationship end, they often go.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: See, I'm just not capable. Their defectiveness when comes out
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: full force, it's me yep.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of times there's just
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: this huge misunderstanding from their partners who maybe got ghosted
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: or they just disappeared.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: That's you know.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think we proved that in last week's
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: episode with the Q and A Session, where so many
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: people are just searching for closure from these DA partners
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that sort of just disappear which you all don't always realize,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: is that they feel like they're doing you a favor.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: They feel like they are doing you a favor, and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of times they will say, well, I just
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: wasn't compatible. They just weren't compatible with me. A lot
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: of times that happens. But then sometimes when it's ultra painful,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: they'll go, yeah, see I just couldn't give them what
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: they needed. And so you know, they can blame it
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: on incompatibility.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: But also I've heard.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: From a lot of das, especially on the more severe side,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that there is this inherent knowing that they're not like
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: everybody else, Yeah, that they can't experience intimacy like everybody else,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and then that brings on more shame and more association
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: from the shame, and then they just stay checked out.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It is a vish, just freaking cycle for them.
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: What would be like the.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: First step without you know, I mean, I know we
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: have to like get keep to a certain degree, but like.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I decided, I'm not gay heaping anymore.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Good, I'm not It's not worth it. Yeah, if you
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: people that want access to me and want to talk
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: to me and want to talk to me about how to.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: You're going to learn more. You're going to learn way more.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: You're gonna want access to me because you're going to
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: want to know how to apply this to you as
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: an individual and to your situation.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: So I can I'm just gonna talk about these things.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: There's no there's no use in gay hemping.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: So what's like the first step?
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: You know, for somebody who is da like just recognizing
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: those patterns.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: That is the first step. So awareness is the first step.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: But that's where most therapists and coaches draw the line.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Here's your awareness, here's your tools to execute. Okay, if
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: they could.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Do it, they would.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I'm sure their partners shoved it in their face of
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: what they need to do. They're not dumb, right, they
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: just don't know how to do anything different. They I
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: don't know how to explain it.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: Like they hit a wall.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's not like it's just the wall.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: It's like not knowing.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: It's like you're trying to tell five foot three meter
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: to don't go basketball. That's what it feels like to them.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: They feel like it's an impossibility.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good analogy.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so awareness is the first step. But a lot
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: of them, like I said die. Most of them don't
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: know that they have an issue, only that their partner
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: is telling them they need to do something different, but
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: they still feel So I want to clarify because it
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: sounds like a contradiction. Do they not know or do
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: they know? They know that their partner is unhappy with them,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and they know their partner wants something different, but they
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: don't really know that they're the actual problem. They think
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of times it's the partner that's the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: problem until when partner is truly gone. That is when
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the emotions bubble up and they go, oh wait, maybe
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I just like they're I did, I'm not capable right.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: So they go through different sets of emotion.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to really, I think it's important
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that we talk about this and maybe wrap up. Here
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: is the invisible suffering of the DA.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: It is very invisible because they're not going to show
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: it to you because for them, that would be.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Shameful to be vulnerable like that.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So when you do get in a conflict, do they hurt, Yes,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: But is their brain going oh my god, nine one
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: one suppress that also?
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there's some invisible suffering or maybe
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: it's not so invisible or maybe they don't recognize it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: It's just that so many times they get into these
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: relationships similar to what you said, I think in the
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: last episode where when it first begins, they're like, Okay,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: this is the one this I'll never.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Felt like this before. They forget that they feel so
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: good in the beginning.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Of base, which happens and then they get the ick,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and that that cycle of getting the ick is also
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: really painful, to the point where at some point they
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: have to start questioning it and being like, again, what's
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: wrong with me? Why does this happen again and again
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and again, which just perpetuates that cycle of shame.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And I mean in the DA's younger years, a lot
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: of times they're like, oh, I just haven't found anybody.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I'm just not compatible. In their older years.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Especially in a marriage, they're like, well, I just can't
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: make somebody happy. I know she wants X y Z
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: for me, but I'm just that's not who I am.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And so they have some shame around that. But there's
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: also this twist to it of that information where they
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: spin it to themselves as but it's because she's also
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: just way too emotional and has too many needs. So
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I can't give her what she needs,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: but also her needs are way too much. And there
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: are sometimes a lot of truth to that because there
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: was somebody who is very anxious or very fa But
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: then they eventually get when they land in my chair
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: is usually when they're like, I'm going to be divorced
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: or I'm divorced from my third wife. At some point,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I can't keep pointing the finger, or I just I've
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: never really been able to feel satisfied in a relationship,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: and I'm starting to think maybe it has something to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: do with me. It's an evolution of their emotions. So
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of what I said can sound
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: like it's a contraindication, but they go through an evolution,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: and I see them sometimes at different stages. I see
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: the younger DA that's like I just, you know, I
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: keep meeting these people that are so dramatic, and I'm like,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: let's talk about you and what your blueprint looks like.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And then I see people that are on their second
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: divorce and they're like, I just don't want to, you know,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: screw up a third marriage. And then I see people
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: on their third divorce and I see people who are
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: about to get divorced. I see people in all different
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: stages where there may be at different stages of realization
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: about themselves.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: But it's all painful.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I remember coaching a specific client when I was
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: coaching an older man who again was on the brink
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of divorce. It was maybe some of the most difficult
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: coaching that I'd ever done because I could see how
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: badly he wanted to grasp these concepts. But you could
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: tell like he never had a ton of feedback, right,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: So you know, sometimes coaching like you need the feedback
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: from here.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be very tough to coach a day.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Exactly why I recommend my group because they don't. They
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: can't process in the moment. They need to sit with it,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: and they need to be in a situation where they
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: don't feel pressure, because then their nervous system gets dysregulated
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and then they can't learn. They tank most of the
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: time in couples work.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Tank.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, freaking tank. That's why I built my freaking
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: group to begin with. One, I wanted to help the
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: masses for sure, but two, I was like, this would
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: be the best space for a DA can be an
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: anonymous Wallflower, where their nervous system feels safe to get
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: this information and it starts landing and their brain starts
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: having light bulbs. That's when they're going to buy into
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: it and start doing the actual tools, whereas in a
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: one on one situation they get so disregulated they can't learn.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was I think, and that's what I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: was gonna say, Like this man's face, you know, And
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: every time that we would have an individual session is
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: kind of embedded in my brain because oh gosh, it
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: became so difficult to continue the individual coaching just because
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I could tell that he was struggling so hard to process.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: They get these skills.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: In the middle, they get stuck by their own shame.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: So one of the biggest reasons that dismissive avoidance don't
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: change even when they have awareness is that that awareness
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: alone brings up their defectiveness and then their brain goes, oh, no,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: that's too painful, we need to suppress, So they put
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: it off and they prioritize something else until it gets
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: bad enough again, usually in their relationship that you know,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, well maybe I'll revisit it. Then same
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: exact cycle. My internalized shame rises because I realized that
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I've hurt my partner or I've let them down. So
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: I will either fight against it or I will do
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: what my brain says to do, which is to shut
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: down and associate from it. So, and guys, I just
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: want to absolutely reiterate here that when we talk about
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: individual clients, we don't say it unless we have seen
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: it multiple times. Yes, we're not going to ever give
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: you a case that is so out there that it
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: would be able somebody would.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Be listening to this and be like, oh that was
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I know who that was. Yeah, yeah, No, we have
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: to have.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Seen something so many times that it's so commonplace that
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: we just talk about, Well, I saw it last week,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: but I've also seen it twenty.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Times, and I haven't. I haven't coached in over a
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: year now. And one of the reasons why I had
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to step away from it was because specifically coaching the
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: severe DA's and I had quite a few, was just
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: so difficult for me.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: It is difficult, and it's difficult for them. That's why
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: they go through my hybrid group and they are like
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: thank they thrive, Thank.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You for giving me a space where I didn't feel
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: so much pressure and where my own nervous system wasn't
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: screaming red alert nine to one one the whole time.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: See you love das you guys are wrong. I all
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: practice is like.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Built on trying to help the DA if anything, and
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: that for sure, and that leads me to really how
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I want to wrap this up, which is really just
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: around healing and hope for the DA or the partner
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of the DA. We kind of already touch based on
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: like the first step is you know, awareness and acknowledging
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: and acknowledging the patterns, but you know, how can their
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: partners help them?
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: Because that's a big question.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Boundaries and they will hate it first, but they will
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: subconsciously respect it and then most of the time, if
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: you hold it firm, they will fall in line with it. Yeah,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: ninety percent of the time. I can't tell you one
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: hundred percent of the time, that would be dishonest, but
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: ninety percent of the time when you stand on business
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: with your boundaries, with your own behavior, they really don't
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: want the loss. At the end of the day, loss
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: is what makes their feelings start to bubble up. So
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: when you remove access and it's not game playing, you're
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: going to be very clear about what you need for
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: them to regain access, and you should make your boundaries
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: around them getting the help, not around them immediately changing
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: their behavior because they don't have capacity to change. They
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: have to learn their tools to get the capacity. So
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: make your boundary around participating in the help. And I'm
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: not going to say I'm the end all be all
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: that there's not other people out there that can't help.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I'm particularly proud of what I've created for das, and
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I've gotten enough feedback over the years now to know
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: that it works and that it is powerful, and it
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: is a space where they finally feel like they can
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: make changes without feeling like they're dying in the process
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: of making those changes, especially because of the anonymity that
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: they can have in the group. Most of the das
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: prefer to be anonymous. Most of my aps are turning
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: their camera on and saying hi and trying to learn
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: everybody's name, and then my das are like the blank screens.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and I'm just like, I know who they
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: are on the back end, but nobody else is going
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: to know who they are, and they don't care. They
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: already they've already usually done an individual with me, and
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: they've already told me their life stories.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Usually Doc already knows your dynamic before you even say
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a word. She has just the knack for it. And
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: you've been doing it long enough to just now, I
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: know that you've given examples, but just to leave everybody
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: with more hope, is you know, do you have you
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: know a very specific or not specific, but just like,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: you know, what are some of the success stories that
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: you've heard from DAS or the partners.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Of any many which that sounds really braggy, and I.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Don't sound braggy at all.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Like to be braggy, I think I'll just say what
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: do I hear most from DAS? Yeah, when they've got
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: when they've done the program, My marriage is a million
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: times better.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: My wife is happy with me.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm like in a miserable marriage anymore.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: The joy comment I get a lot. I finally like,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I am not numb anymore. But I did and realize
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: how bad numb felt until I wasn't numb. And the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: positive side of not being numb is the joy. I
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: hear that a lot.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: I hear. I'm so thankful I can attune to my
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: kids properly.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Now, I had no idea the damage I was doing
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: to my own kids, that I was constantly dismissing them,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: constantly ignoring their emotions. And now I can be that
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: father that I need to be, or be that mother
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that I need to be.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna. I just wanted to.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: We didn't really touch on that, the female DA, and
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, plenty of them. Yeah I know that because
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: the a few calls that I've had last week, it
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: seems like more and more anxious males come in and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: talk about dismissive.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: But I think the female DA just defies all logic
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: because so many coaches and therapists and in the relationship
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: space are talking about this is what men need, this
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: is what women need. We actually know, if you knew
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the science of relationships, that gender is a terrible predictor
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: of how people will behave in relationships. Attachment is the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: best predictor of how people will behave in relationships. And
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: fifteen percent of the DA population or female, which yes,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: so it's overwhelmingly male because of that cultural influence and
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: because it passes down where the same sex parent is
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: the most influential. So dads are raising you know stoic,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: non available, emotionally available sons, but a lot of times
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: and it tends to be the eldest daughter that are
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: more parentified.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: The women can be DA's.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: But then their husbands try to fix it by giving
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: them more of what society says women want, more emotion,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: more romance, more affection, more this, and then they keep
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: getting more and more and more distant, and they're banging
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: their heads against the wall, like what in the heck,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: because I'm doing what all these people on social media
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: are telling me, this is what women want, And that
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: just drives Moosh crazy because those fifteen percent of women
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: are absolutely going to reject that traditional they really get,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: they will get ten times the if from that, they
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: will leave their marriage, sometimes over. And you have not
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: believe how many times I have heard somebody that's usually
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: an FA man almost always FA sometimes AP handful of
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: times AP, but most time MEFA say I tried flowers,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I tried cards, I tried you know, planning, amazing dates.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I've tried you know, sharing how I feel. I've tried,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: and they've tried all these like quote traditional female wants,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: and they just got more rejected, to the point where
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: their wife left the marriage.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: So what's the answer in that situation.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Well, again, give them their space, and then you put
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: a boundary in place. Give them their space so you
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: don't push them out the door, but then hold your
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: boundary and you take your space.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: They you think they like space, and.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: The number one thing I always hear is like, but
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: they're just gonna love the space. No, they like space
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: on their terms. They don't like the space on your
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: terms because they're used to having ultimate control in the
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: relationship because whoever can pull away and be okay with
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: it is the dictator, right, and so it rows them
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: for a loop. And subconsciously, they respect you so much
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: more when you hold a boundary with them because their
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: boundaries are so firm. When you have no boundaries and
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you are just people pleasing and caving into everything they want,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: they feel like they are responsible for you, and that
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: level of expectation triggers them immensely.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: So give them their space.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But then you set a boundary and you take your space,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and you make that space for you about meeting your
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: own needs, regulating your own nervous system, working towards your
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: own attachment security, and really contemplating if they don't step
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: up from your boundary. What is going to look like
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: to leave this relationship?
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: That's right, and that's for male or female, male or female.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: So let's wrap it up that. Yeah, I think that,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: you know, that's a true testament of just how valuable
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: this information is and how credible doctor Hensley is and
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: how wonderful her hybrid group coaching program is. So if
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: that's interesting to you, please go check out her services
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: at the lovedoc dot com. For all of our listeners,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: we offer a special prom code love dot twenty seven
• 45:01
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• 45:05
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• 45:14
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• 45:22
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