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Dying without a will · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I am never better in you?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you. What do you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: A couple of thanks. We're going to go to Minnesota.
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  Speaker 3: We have an appellate court case there dealing with with
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  Speaker 3: something we don't talk about a lot called disclaimers. So
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  Speaker 3: a disclaimer is something that you can really do post mortem.
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  Speaker 3: It's like post mortem planning. We can make changes and
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  Speaker 3: do things. You know, first of all, why would we
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  Speaker 3: do things post mortem. It's not generally something you want
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  Speaker 3: to do, but it does. It can provide a benefit,
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  Speaker 3: and we're going to explain how that works really with
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  Speaker 3: this case. Then we're going to head over to Montana.
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  Speaker 3: We have an appellate court case there dealing with basically
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  Speaker 3: somebody who died without a will and survived by four
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  Speaker 3: daughters with a main piece of property in Montana, big
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  Speaker 3: cabin that nobody really wants and.
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  Speaker 2: Can't imagine what could go wrong in that situation. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I made a planned Dad hasn't really been planned for
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  Speaker 2: and hasn't been paid played out. So we're going to
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  Speaker 2: see how this all all works out with these four daughters.
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  Speaker 2: But folks, that's just one item, and in a state plan,
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  Speaker 2: there's lots of items in an estate plan. There's family
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: behind the estate plan. There's lots of issues you have
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to deal with, and that's what this guide is about.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: It's avoiding the potholes that come up in estate planning.
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  Speaker 2: So for you know, relying on a will, relying on
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a nominee realty trust, that's not planning.
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  Speaker 3: That's not planning, right. You know you think you don't
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: have enough money to plan. You think you're single and
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: you don't need to plan. Folks, learn and if you've
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: done your planning, call and get this guide because it
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: has information about what you might need to redo to
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: update it. Like it's been fifteen years, I got a divorce,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I remarried. You know, you you there's so many things
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: to think about, folks, for both people, whether you've planned
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: or not. This guide is for you eight six six
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine to nine or Legal
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  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com. Learn about the potholes to avoid
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: in your estate planning eight six six eight four eight
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  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
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  Speaker 3: Now off to Minnesota Disclaimers. So Laurie died intestate, of
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  Speaker 3: course we all know now what that means without a will,
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  Speaker 3: without a will, and died in April twenty twenty two,
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  Speaker 3: leaving no spouse and no kids, survived by father Tom
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  Speaker 3: Senior and brother Tom Junior. Just to make things harder Well,
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  Speaker 3: Senior apparently got a two hundred and ninety three thousand
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  Speaker 3: dollars interest in a promisory note. Well Junior presented Senior
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  Speaker 3: with the disclaimer regarding his interest in the promisory note. Now,
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  Speaker 3: the disclaimer identified the note, but it didn't really identify
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  Speaker 3: the value of the note. Senior signed it, but then
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  Speaker 3: later moved the court to revoke it because he really
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  Speaker 3: didn't understand the disclaimer and he didn't understand the value
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  Speaker 3: that was being disclaimed, So the district court invalidated the disclaimer. Junior,
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  Speaker 3: of course didn't like that, so Junior appealed, stating that
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  Speaker 3: the law itself does not require the disclaimer to state
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  Speaker 3: the value of the interest being disclaimed, and the Court
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  Speaker 3: of Appeals reversed and said, that's right. A disclaimer that
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  Speaker 3: does not state the value may still be a binding
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  Speaker 3: disclaimer if it conveys enough information to impart an idea
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  Speaker 3: or an impression of the interest, the qualities or the
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  Speaker 3: distinctive traits of the item and the promisory note in
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  Speaker 3: this case, you know, indicates that it at least involved money,
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  Speaker 3: and it.
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  Speaker 2: Was enough interesting. Can you explain to people what a
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  Speaker 2: disclaimer is?
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  Speaker 3: Yes? I think that's where we need to we need
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  Speaker 3: to spend some time. So so in this case, obviously
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  Speaker 3: there was a fight between I don't know if there
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  Speaker 3: was a fight or not, but but I I can
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  Speaker 3: tell you that Dad didn't end up with the note.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like some shenanigans from junior though.
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  Speaker 3: So d Dad didn't end up with a note. And
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  Speaker 3: you're right, you know, I'm not sure why or how,
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  Speaker 3: if any you know, I know, you can really have
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  Speaker 3: undue influence here. It just presented them with a document.
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  Speaker 3: It's not the same as as undue influence. So okay,
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  Speaker 3: So what is what is a disclaimer? A disclaimer is
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  Speaker 3: a statement that the individual who was to receive the
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  Speaker 3: bequest in the will or or in a trust does
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  Speaker 3: not want it, okay, and does not want to get it.
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  Speaker 3: And and by doing a disclaimer, the estate planning document
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  Speaker 3: is simply reread as if the person had predeceased the decedent.
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  Speaker 2: So treat me as if I'm dead and go to
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  Speaker 2: the next.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, treat me as if I'm already dead. Then
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  Speaker 3: the asset would simply go to the next living person
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  Speaker 3: or the next person in line via the terms of.
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  Speaker 2: The document junior in this case, well.
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  Speaker 3: This person died intestate, so there was no document, there
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  Speaker 3: was no will. So now what do we do? So
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  Speaker 3: the disclaimer. You know, the other important part about a
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  Speaker 3: disclaimer is if it's a qualified disclaimer, it has to
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  Speaker 3: be done within nine months of the date of death.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so meaning like a retirement plan qualified.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's just a term they use. Qualified disclaimer.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a qualified IRA account. It's just a qualified disclaimer.
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  Speaker 3: It's a It has to be done within nine months
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  Speaker 3: of the date of death. Like this, it treat me
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  Speaker 3: as if I'm already dead. And another big part of
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  Speaker 3: a disclaimer is the disclaiming party cannot direct where it goes.
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  Speaker 3: So you don't have the luxury of saying I don't
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  Speaker 3: want it, but I want it to go over here
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  Speaker 3: to you know, uncle Billy can't do that. You have to,
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  Speaker 3: as you said, Susan, have to simply say, treat me
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  Speaker 3: as if I'm already dead, and go down the line,
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  Speaker 3: Where's where's the next right, where's the next person who
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  Speaker 3: gets it? And so that's really what would happen here.
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  Speaker 3: So now what do we have to do, Well, we
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  Speaker 3: have to look to the intestate succession statue. So in
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  Speaker 3: this case, there was no will, so the next closest
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  Speaker 3: next of kin. And again I'm not sure I know
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  Speaker 3: Minnesota's intestate succession statue, but let's just assume this is
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  Speaker 3: kind of how it works. Right, if there's no spouse
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  Speaker 3: and no kids, well, then the next person in line
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  Speaker 3: very well could have been the parents, which would have
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  Speaker 3: been Tom Senior, which is why Tom Senior got the
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  Speaker 3: promisory note, got it okay, because he would have been
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  Speaker 3: the next in line because he's he was the parent.
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  Speaker 3: Remember that she had no kids, no spouse. Well, then
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  Speaker 3: next as parents, well, if there's no parent, guess who's
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  Speaker 3: next in line?
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  Speaker 2: Siblings?
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  Speaker 3: Siblings, So there's Junior coming.
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  Speaker 2: Around, Junior lining up with his hand out.
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  Speaker 3: So so Junior would have likely been the one that
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  Speaker 3: would have got.
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  Speaker 2: This, and assuming they didn't have other siblings, because it
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  Speaker 2: would have been split between Junior and whoever the other
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  Speaker 2: siblings were, right.
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  Speaker 3: Right, got it right?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 3: If there's other siblings and it's going to go across
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  Speaker 3: the sibling line, So so jor Junior's kind of involved here.
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  Speaker 3: But but think about this, so now that we understand
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  Speaker 3: what it is, why would we do a disclaimer, right,
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  Speaker 3: why are they even available? Well, there's a lot of reasons. Well,
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  Speaker 3: in this case, you know, you would have been leaving
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  Speaker 3: an asset up a generation. You know, you don't want
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  Speaker 3: to generally leave assets up a generation from daughter to
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  Speaker 3: dad because now you could have paid taxes at daughters level,
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  Speaker 3: and now it went up a generation and dad could
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  Speaker 3: be close to dying just to have a tax to
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  Speaker 3: get back down to the same level it already was at.
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  Speaker 3: So it's like a double tax. You don't want that.
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  Speaker 3: So that would be a good reason to do a disclaimer, right,
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes you do disclaimers because you know, we again, if
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  Speaker 3: you leave it the way it is, it could have
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  Speaker 3: been exposed to a nursing home. Maybe he's you know,
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  Speaker 3: older and or if he's in one, they just take it. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: so so you know, it could be a nursing home situation. Now,
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  Speaker 3: be careful. Disclaimers could actually be triggering a five year
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  Speaker 3: waiting period because that technically is an action taken to
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  Speaker 3: avoid getting an asset. So that could trigger a five
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  Speaker 3: year waiting period. But who cares. I mean, you might
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  Speaker 3: as well avoid taxes and avoid Yeah, yeah, you really do.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean You could have a trust situation too,
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  Speaker 3: that where one spouse died and you never did nursing
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  Speaker 3: home planning, but you want to preserve the estate planning benefits.
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  Speaker 3: You can then disclaim your right just to the income
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  Speaker 3: and now you've protected that from the nursing home and
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  Speaker 3: added and preserve the estate planning benefits. So, folks, there
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  Speaker 3: are reasons to do it. Most mortem planning does happen,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: but you know what, Planning in advance is better. But
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: when you plan, there's many potholes to avoid in your
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: estate plan. So call and get the guide Learn how
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to the Legal Exchange
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  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: We got another one about not planning right.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, so in this case, that's Montana. Right, We're gonna
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: head over to Montana upellate court case. And this is
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: where Richard died again intestate. So we have two people
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: with no no plan, no planning, and they die. She
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Richard died in October of twenty twenty two, survived by
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: four daughters. Curious enough, rich Anne, don Yeah, rich Anne,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: you think, yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So so the
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: first daughter was rich Anne, and then don and then
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Shelby and then Donita. So rich Anne and the oldest
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: apparently was appointed personal representative or in this case, administrator,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: because there was no no will, and the primary asset,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: as I said earlier, was this cabin in Lincoln, Montana.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: The daughters could not agree on what to do with it,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: so they reached a settlement through a mediator. I mean, really,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: first of all, you got four kids who can't agree,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: they have to go to a mediator to pay money
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: and get a settlement. So they get a settlement agreement,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: and they say the agreement is to appraise the cabin,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: and within thirty days of the appraisal, one or more
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: of the daughters, could you know, buy the cabin at
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: the appraised value. Seems fair. The appraisal came out at
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: two hundred thirty four thousand dollars. Well, no one bid
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: on the property and so thirty days went by and
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: that was the end of that. So you know, rich Anne,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: the pr or administrator, had to list the property. So
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: she listed it and when she listed it, she discovered
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: through inspections that it needed a lot of work structural work,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: foundation work, engineering work. So she submitted an engineer report
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: to get the construction company to give them an appraisal
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: for what it would cost to fix this about one
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: hundred and twenty seven thousand dollars to fix it, which
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: is almost half the price of the whole thing. Okay,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: so while it was listed, they got one offer and
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: that didn't go through, so they really had no interest.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: No one had any interest in it. So rich Anne
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: then filed emotion. I'm sorry. So then what they did
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: is they listed the property and they got that one
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: offer that was withdrawn. So then rich Anne filed emotion
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: with the court to approve an offer to purchase the
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: cabin by three of the sisters. This is way after
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: the thirty days right to purchase a cabin by the
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: three sisters for the for one hundred and six thousand dollars. Well,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: why is it one hundred and six thousand dollars because
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: it's the appraised value less the construction costs to fix it. Well,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: that makes sense. And then they offered the one daughter, Shelby,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: twenty six thousand dollars, which is her one quarter interest
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: of the property.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Let me guess shall be objected.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Shelby wasn't happy with this approach, so she opposed
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: the motion to the court. The court approved it approved
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: the motion. Yes, so she's out the appellate court and
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court because they still wanted to take this.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: High have been paying all these legal.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Fees and look at the size of the assal each
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: come on, well that re member the one hundred and six
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: because yeah, because you have the fix up cost of
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty seven thousand. Well, they affirmed that
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: in the court finding that the offer was reasonable. It
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: certainly was. It was in the best interest of the estate. Plus,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: the agreement that they spent money on initially to put
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: together did not provide for what happens if the girls
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: don't vote within thirty days. It was just silent as
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: to that. So, well, you gave no direction in the agreement,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: The agreement went beyond its thirty days, nobody voted to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: buy it, nobody bid on it. What do we do?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Court said, this seemed like a reasonable approach. I don't disagree.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: I think it was a reasonable approach. But folks, this
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: is a big problem. Real estate is a big asset
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: for people right in your estate, and you need to
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: learn how to deal with that asset that could create
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: a pothole, which is what this guide is all about,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: avoiding potholes, whether it's how to deal with a certain
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: piece of property, whether you got remarried, whether you have
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: a second marriage. You know, so, even if you've done planning,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: this will give you reasons to adjust the planning you've done.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: And certainly if you've not done your planning, it's great
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: for you to avoid these things that might happen, these
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: potholes that you could run into in doing your planning.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: So call and get the guide eight six six eight
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: dot com again eight six six eight four eight five
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: What a nightmare and what a waste of money.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: I know that's really the key end time.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Time, the legal fees, because you can't go all the
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: way up to the to the Supreme Court.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Where did it go to? No, I think it just
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: went to the appelic It was the superior court and the
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: appellate court.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's that's not quick.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: No, No, the appellate court levels a lot. And you
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: know it's not even just the time and the money.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: This family is not going to be happy with each
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: other anymore. Now you've got four siblings who that might
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: be all they have left in terms of family, you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: and it's like, now what Now you're going to be
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: mad at each other over a log cabin in Montana.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: That's not the Yellowstone Ranch for sure.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, what do you think they should.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Have listed it for one hundred grand and been done
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: with it?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Take it, you know, let some builder develop it or
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: something if you don't want it. I mean, but they
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: were given the opportunity. So yeah. So these are the
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: kinds of things that go beyond just taxes and probate.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: This really impacted the family, I think, and most people
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: don't want their kids fighting when when they're.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Gone, Right, So, how do you account for real estate?
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: So we actually put and think about it in terms
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: of if they had done this here, how much it
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: would have avoided exactly what happened here. Right, So, our
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: document has language in it for any real estate unless
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: you specifically wanted to go to one child or something
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: and you tell us to, you know, give something to
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: one child. Basically, there's never a problem anymore with our
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: trust because our trust has that langue jenet that we've
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: talked about in the past that prevents fighting, prevents litigation,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: prevents settlement agreements wasted time. The language states that the
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: property in the trust. Let's say you had three pieces
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: of property, you could just say this log cabin doesn't matter,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: you know, do you kids, all four of you? You
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: got four here? Do you kids want property number one?
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Property number two, Property number three? Do you want it?
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: We talk about each one separately, even though the document
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: might earlier on, say upon the death of the donor
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: and the donor spouse, divide everything equally amongst the kids.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: That's okay, That's how it starts. And then down below
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: it says, notwithstanding the equal treatment, when it comes to
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: real estate, you got to go through this paragraph. So
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: before we allocate the real estate to the four shares.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: We ask them if they want it. If they all
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: say yeah, yeah, yeah, we want property number one, then
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: we will prepare deeds and put one quarter of the
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: property in each of their buckets within the trust. If,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: by the way the property it starts off by saying
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the property must be sold unless unless you all fore
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: want it, then we give it to you. If any
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: one of you don't want it, then the ones who
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: want it have the right to buy out the interest
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: the interest of the ones who don't. You don't have
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: to buy out your own interests. You already got it,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: and we put a timetable in thirty days from the
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: written notice given to you. Exercise this and at fair
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: market value, go get an appraisal. So there's no fighting
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: over the value, and there's everybody still treated equally, and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: everybody got what they wanted. Their buckets will still be equal.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: It just might be that one bucket has more money
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: and one bucket has more real estate.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: And think about that, Todd, That one paragraph that you
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: putting your trust documents would have saved the entire situation
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that these four girls went through.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: And preserve family relationship.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: And in the appeals court and period though, just what
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: a nightmare.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: And really the idea is to keep keep the family
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you know together, so you know, lots of stuff and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: if you and if you do want to keep it together,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: you can even preserve it for generations to come. You
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: don't have to pay it out, you can hold it
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: in trust. And if the kids really get along, then
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: they're not going to fight over which vacation week we
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: get and how we pay the property taxes and who
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: gets who does this maintenance and who does that maintenance. Hey,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: if they all want it, then they're getting along and
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: they're going to work those things out, you know, amongst themselves.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: So but again it can actually be preserved for even
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: the next generation. So folks planning so much better. It
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: gives everybody an opportunity to get what they want, when
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: they wanted, how they want it, and at the end
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: of the day, it would have kept the four kids together. Folks,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: get the guide how to avoidoid the Potholes in Estate
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Planning eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner with the
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing in Dolan I'm Susan Powers, a
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Creating an estate plan can be a difficult process if
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you aren't working with an expert who can make sure
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: your plan is secure. Cushing and Dolan can help. Call
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: them today at eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 1: blunders to avoid. Don't put your assets at risk and
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  Speaker 1: open yourself up to severe tax consequences. Even if you
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  Speaker 1: already have a plan, this guide may correct an issue
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  Speaker 1: that could come back to haunt you in the years
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  Speaker 1: to come. Proper estate planning is crucial to you being
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: able to enjoy your later years, and it may be
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the difference between retiring comfortably or living under incredible financi pressure.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan right now at eight six six
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  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine and get your
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: free guide today. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or requested online from their website
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange Show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: are offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Armstrong do
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• 26:25
  Speaker 6: Trust can play a key role in your financial strategy,
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: and understanding the different kinds and their purpose may help
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: you make the right decisions for your overall plan. Hi,
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: this is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Trusts
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: are utilized for a variety of reasons, but the most
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: basic use is to make settling in a state easier.
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: Trust have the ability to bypass probate, which can save
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: you significant time and money while allowing your assets to
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: be distributed directly to your beneficiaries. Our new guide this
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: month is called Trusts in your Financial Plan and you
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: can get it by calling eight hundred three nine three
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: four zero zero one. Learn about trusts and their possible
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: benefits to your financial stratig by requesting your free guide today.
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: That number again is eight hundred thirty nine three four
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: zero zero one, or request it online at Armstrong Advisory
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: dot com. That's Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: advisory services. You're listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: your questions about anything and everything that's included in the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: estate planning process. Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Welcome back top. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from a Lane in Brockton,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: mass and a Lane Wrights. I created an irrevocable trust
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: six years ago at the time my son was receiving
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: governmental benefits for disability. His inheritance was supposed to be
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: in hell, held in trust for him so that he
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: wouldn't risk his benefits. Supposed to be, is supposed to be.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: She's alive, is supposed to be Sorry, he's now back
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: to work and no longer receiving benefits. Can I update
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: my trust now or is it too late because I
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: created it more than five years ago?
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, so now we've got a trust already in place,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: which is good. Let's just go by the way okay, okay,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: good client super good. Good to know. So so we've
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: let's just unpack this a little bit so we can
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: we can follow all the moving parts we did planning.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Check the box. Good. It was more than six years ago,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I mean more than five years ago. Check the box right.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: So now we've got an irrevocable we know we're beyond
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: the five year waiting period. So if it since it's
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: our trust, we know it's drafted right, thankfully, and and uh,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: it is protected from the cost of long term care,
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: and it's avoiding probate. So far, so good. Now, at
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: the time when we set the trust up, the sun
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: was receiving these governmental benefits. So that means that at
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: the date of death, we would have had language in
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: there that says, you know, let's say, treat the kids equally,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: but we would have had like a special need share.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's four kids, right, three of them were going
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to pay out and then there's only one where it
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: was going to be held this way.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Okay, So at a bare minimum, we would have said, okay,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: if we're treating the kids equally, yes, then I would
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: have said, how do you want them to get it? Oh, well,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: like you said, my three kids, they can just have it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: But this one child we have is special needs and
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: we don't want to lose governmental benefits. So, just to
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: give you some background, we would have then created inside
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: the trust a special need share to hold it. So
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: it would have language like payout and the trustees sole discretion,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: income and principal period, no ascertainable standards. It's protected from
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: a governmental benefits. He can he can retain his governmental benefits. However,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: you're saying, now he's back to work. Yep, this is
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: the sun the son.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was disabled with an injury, and now he's
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: back to work.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: He's back to work, he's recovered, and he's no longer
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: receiving the governmental benefits. So can I update my trust
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: now or is it too late? Well, at the end
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: of the day, can we update it, yes, But do
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: we have to update it no? So remember the sole
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: discretionary language we use offers many benefits. It's not just
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: designed to protect people from government losing governmental benefits. Maybe
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: this child's we're worried about a future divorce. Maybe this
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: child has a problem with money. Maybe this child, there's
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: other reasons, right, So holding it that way isn't a problem.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: It can still come out to him in the trustees discretion. Yep,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: if that's what they want. So you don't have to
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: change it for that reason. And secondly, you don't have
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: to change it because you you know, you could simply say, look,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: it was designed for this and mom's gone. Now can
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: you just distribute all the money out? Yeah. Remember it's
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: not stuck there, so it can come out if need be. However,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: if she says, listen, I don't want to deal with
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: all that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: She says, I don't want him to feel like he's
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: being treated differently.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: A good point, you know, something like that, really good point.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: So I want I don't want that angst feeling amongst
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: the children. So why don't we just fix it? Yes,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: we can fix it. We would go through the will
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: and we would exercise what is known as a limited
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: power of appointment inside the trust changing that paragraph.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: That's your change your mind, that's.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Right, that's that limited power of appointment that we talk
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: about a lot. You would exercise that power. You would
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: then redirect and say, now divide everything four ways, which
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: it was already but in the case of the share
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: allocated to say Billy, it would it would now pay
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: out like the rest of them, And yes, we can
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: do that.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: So from that perspective, what if you now kind of
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: the reverse order of that is, what if she says, now,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: now I have concerns because someone's getting divorced. Could she
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: flip it and say, okay, now all four of them
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: are going to held it and have it held in
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: trust for the So she could go the either way.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, when you're talking about changing how you leave
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: the assets to the family, I don't think there's an issue.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: You can change it any way you want.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So if some people never had concerns her future divorces
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: for their children, and then we'll now do.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure you could add it, and that's good for
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: everybody to know that has these trusts. Yeah, if these
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: are concerns, you should do that. And just lastly, before
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: we leave it. It did not trigger a new five
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: year waiting period. It doesn't change anything about how long
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: before the assets are protected. They're still protected.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And she could have done this a year after doing
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: her planning or ten years after her plan has no impact, okay.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: On the five year waiting period. So, folks, really a
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: lot of flexibility is what this shows in this case.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: But of course doing your planning is so important, not
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: only because it provides all the protections and gives you
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: this flexibility, but when you go through the planning process,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: hopefully you will not run into these potholes that this
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: guide that we're giving away tells you about. Like I'm
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: not going to plan because I'm single. I'm not going
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: to plan because I you know, I got a nominee
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: realty trust or all I need is a will. You know, folks,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: that isn't the case. So learn how to avoid potholes
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: with this guide. If you've not planned, and if you've
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: already planned, hey maybe I got divorced, Maybe I've got
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: a second marriage that is happening. Maybe I'm moving out
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: of state. Folks, there's things that happen that make you
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: want to rethink your plan. Call and get the guide
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: on how to avoid these potholes in your estate planning
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: World eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight six
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot Com.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Jenna and Dover, mass and
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Jenna writes, years ago, my parents transferred their home to
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: me and reserved a life estate. I have since gotten married,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and unfortunately I am now going through a divorce. Is
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: their home at risk. I'm terrified that my ex will
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: go after it.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Good. You should be terrified. It's a horrible idea. Yeah, folks,
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: you know how this is. I don't love life estates.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: You know me by now, you know us by now. Right.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: We've preached about life estates a lot, and this is
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: one of the big problems that happens when you do
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: a life estate and you give it to the children. Right.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: In fact, I just last week I did a seminar
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: and I had to because of the real life story
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I ran into a few weeks ago. I had to
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: change my seminar to add this whole section about life
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: states because I believe that it's not just people who
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: don't understand them, but a lot of accountants and people
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: who need to understand the taxm cations of life states
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: also could get confused or need a refresher. It's stuff
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: you don't think about a lot, but when you give
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: a house to the children, you lose some of this,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: you know, control over the house. You can't just change
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: your mind now, right, And well you can, but at
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: this point, you know you have to talk to Jenna
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: and say, Jen, are you willing to give up your
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: remainder interest because she has a vested interest in the
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: future of that house.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And if she's getting a divorce, that's an asset. Yeah, no,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: a marital asset.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, do they force the parent out? Probably not,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: because she has a right to live there, right. I
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: don't know if they could get into a petition to partition,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: but they could certainly probably allow her to live there.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: But then what if the house ends up going to
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: the X. Now you're living there and the X could
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: move in. Actually not the If you're the present owner,
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: you have the present right to live in.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: The parents are in the sty, so they.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Would still live there. But still, I don't think you
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: want it to be a part of the divorce, and
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: it will be so at some point it would seem
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: like Jenna might have to give up other assets to
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: keep the house, yeah, or to keep half the house.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: So I don't love that, and I do think that absolutely, Jenna,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: you have to worry because it is going to be
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: an asset of the marriage.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So I guess the silver lining in this entire situation
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: is that they didn't just give her the house, the
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: whole house. They reserved that life estate, because if they
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: gave her the whole house, that's a very different story.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: A very different story. You give up a lot more
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: when you when you give away the entire house. At
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: least here they preserve some rights for themselves, and that's
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: really critical. So you know, folks, don't, don't just do
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: life estates. Get the guide on how to avoid potholes.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: In fact, that's that's a pothole, is doing life estates
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: the wrong way or doing them at all. So call
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: and get the guide how to Avoid Estate Planning Potholes
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: or go to our website Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: and download it there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutski, a partner
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Creating an estate plan can be a difficult process if
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: you aren't working with an expert who can make sure
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: your plan is secure. Cushing and Dolan can help. Call
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: them today at eight six six eight four eight five
• 37:50
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• 37:53
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• 37:56
  Speaker 1: blunders to avoid. Don't put your assets at risk and
• 37:59
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• 38:02
  Speaker 1: already have a plan, this guide may correct an issue
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: that could come back to haunt you in the years
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to come. Proper estate planning is crucial to you being
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: able to enjoy your later years, and it may be
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the difference between retiring comfortably or living under incredible financial pressure.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan right now at eight sixty six
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: eight four eight five six ninety nine and get your
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: free guide today. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine, or request an online from their
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: website Legal Exchange Show dot com. The proceeding is paid
• 38:31
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• 38:33
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• 38:35
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  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. A
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  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 40:50
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• 40:52
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• 40:55
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So we're talking about all those potholes
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: to avoid all the mistakes you don't want to make.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about what happens if, like we said,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: you know, you got the people who aren't doing any planning, right,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's good to have done a will
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: at least, but relying on just a will as your
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: whole estate plan, I mean, there's definitely some pitfalls to that.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: So I want to kind of talk things through with
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: folks who haven't planned and say, wholl I'm gonna get
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: my will done at least.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't mean to completely pooh pooh the will.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: I know I do a lot.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: It's a little it's just pooh yeah. Not planning as
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: pooh pooh. You're having just a will.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: As poop just pooh. So and so you know, look
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: at the examples we had in this show today. You
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: know the two cases we had actually both of them
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: had no planning. So that's the no will, no nothing,
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: And that's clearly worse ye than doing at least a will.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: So if you're going to do nothing, at least do
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: a will. Do I think relying on a will as
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: an estate planning pothole? I do, I do, But it
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: better than nothing. So what does it do?
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about what it does what it doesn't.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: So if you have a will, you don't have to
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: go to probate.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Right, it's exactly wrong, right, It's exactly what people think though, Susan.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: They think the will is going to be the estate
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: plan that saves everything. Well, a will does not do that.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So the will being the won't right like we say,
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: is it won't avoid probate because it's the one estate
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: planning document that you must file with the probate court.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: I think the bigger issue is what does it address. Well,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: if you've done no will, but you're married and you
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: own all your assets jointly.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Which most people do if they haven't done.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Any planning, including their home.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: The home they'll own a joint with survivorship.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can at least say, on the first death,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: you likely avoided probate and the will addressed no.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Assets because the house goes to the spouse, the I
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: raised account, carry the joint accounts, the bank accounts all
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: own jointly. So easy, psy convenient.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: And it's super easy and you don't have to do anything.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: And that's that's exactly true. However, now you wasted so
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: from an estate tax planning standpoint, if that's part of
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: your concern, whether it be federal or state, you've wasted
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: the exemption. So if you are at four million dollars.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Just to use the state numbers, you will have wasted
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: two million dollar exemption on the first death because everything
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: went to the spouse, spouse saying, oh that was easy,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: I didn't have to do anything, and now you're worth
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: four million.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I know you said before though, that you can do
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: some post mortem planning, like on the federal estate tax level.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Can you do anything on the state state tax level.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: If you disclaim, if you were like the disclaimer we
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: did right, next course she's not going to do that.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Where would it go to the kids? Then you know
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: you're not going to do that. So but it's a
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: good question, fair question.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: So from an estate tax perspective, you probably wasted it. Yeah,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: probably on the state level.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: But again you avoided probate. Great, but you've now you've
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: wasted the estate tax. So it really didn't help you
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: avoid probate only because the will would still be filed,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: but there'd be no assets and you have no estate
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: tax planning benefits. And now, of course when you die
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: you have four million minus the two million dollar exemption,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: you pay tax or the kids pay tax, and you
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: don't avoid probate. So on the second death, if you
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: don't plan, which likely, if you didn't plan on the
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: first death, you're not going to plan on the second death. Well,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: then you are going to have a probate problem.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: What are the state estate taxes on a four million
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: dollar estate?
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: Todd about two hundred thousand.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: So you created that tax because the tax it would
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: be paid if you'd done even just a simple revocable
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: trust on a four million dollars state from Mary couple,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: what would you pay then?
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: None?
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: None? You created a gift unnecessary voluntary taxes.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: I would say, that's a pothole i'd want to avoid.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would say.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: So, that's exactly what this guide is about, folks. It
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: mentions things about potholes and how to avoid them, and
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: one of them is that relying on a will. There's
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: a whole section in there about what happens when you
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: rely on a will. There's a section in there that says, oh,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I've got a nomine realty trust, I'm all set. No,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: how do they work? That's not always the way to go, folks.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe I want to leave my asset's a
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: different way than I've left them before. If you've done
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: your planning, get the guide because there's things in there
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: that might make you rethink what you've done, and if
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: you haven't done your planning, it'll give you things to
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: look out for when you go to your lawyer to
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: learn how to do your planning. So call and get
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: the guide State Planning Potholes to Avoid eight six six
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Show dot com again eight six six eight four eight
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or the website Legal Exchange Show
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: dot com.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: So, most married couples that have done a well, typically
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: it's just a I love you, honey, here's the money.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: When we both die, it goes to the kids. Equally,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: they haven't done you know, a fancy well if you will, Yeah,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: they're just it's a basic, well basic, I love you honey,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: here's the money. So in terms of that bloodline planning,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I mean today we've already talked about special needs, someone
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: getting a divorce, someone who isn't good with money, someone
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: might have dependency issues. So how do you protect from
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: that perspective? How do you plan for that with just
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: a will?
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: So a couple of things and one I just wanted
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: to mention because I was thinking about it be based
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: on what you said, and I'm going to answer that
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: next one. So the other thing that this isn't doing
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: is not only did we not avoid a state taxes
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: or probate on the second death, don't forget the nursing
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: home in case that's a concern. So it's not doing
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: that either. Just to throw out another thing that a
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: will is not doing. But but how do you leave.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Assets kids to the case you have a simple will,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you're not going to protect them from any of that stuff.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So it depends what the will says. I mean,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: can you build a trust inside the will? Yes, but
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: probably if you've not done any planning and all you
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: thought was I'm doing a simple will, I leave everything
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: to each other. Likely the will is simply going to
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: say divide it up and give it to the kids
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: and paid out.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Because a lot of people I can I mean, they're
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: doing the will saying I don't want my kids to
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: go to probate, so I'm definitely gonna do a will,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: right right, I mean, which doesn't even avoid the probate
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: part of it. But they're doing basic.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Stuff, and I think without the guidance. So you know,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: whether you're getting this guide or really going to an
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: attorney is what I'm suggesting, is that the attorney is
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: going to provide you with some guidance, some ideas, some
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: options that you might not have thought about. Right, You
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: might not have thought about, Yeah, you wanted to avoid probate,
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: and you think you're doing it even though you're not
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: doing it, But you might not have thought about maybe
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: my kids aren't good with money, or maybe I don't
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: maybe I want to get something directly to a grandchild,
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: or maybe I want to skip a generation for tax
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: purposes or protect from a divorce, or things that you're
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: not really thinking about as a layperson.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: That family and unless you have that conversation with someone,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: because I've been in the room when you've had those
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: meetings with folks and you go down a whole list
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: of objectives to make them think about what they haven't
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: thought about because they don't know what they don't know.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: That's right, And I think that's why you go to
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: an attorney to get counseling, as you said, when you're
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: doing this to learn about those things. So I think
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: pretty much relying on a will, I think we've we've
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: addressed that issue that is not really any state planned.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you one other question, Todd, because
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of people when they think oh it's a will,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: it's a simple thing. The healthcare proxy, all those basic documents.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I can just do them online. There's a lot of
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: websites out there, So yeah, what do you know? What
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: kind of insight can you give about those sites where
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: people you know, the DIY legal stuff.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't understand them fully. I don't know
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: how they always operate. But I did have some clients
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: that came in recently a couple. The last one that
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: came in wanted to sit down and do an estate plan,
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: but kind of brought with them some stuff and I said, well,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: do you already have your plan done? Because you know,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: I don't want to recreate the reel if you already
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: have it. And they've been working on it for a
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: year online. Yeah, every time I hit print, I get charged.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: There's no one to talk to. I got no guidance.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm going nowhere with this. There are documents,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: but they were just frustrated a year of this, Susan,
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: So I don't think you're going to end up with
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: what you need, folks. So to avoid all these potholes.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: Just get the guide eight six six eight four eight
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine, or go to our website. You
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: can download it there Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Letski from the law firm of Cushing in Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan, always a pleasure.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: We thank you for joining us today and we'll be
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: back again next week on the Legal Exchange with Todd Leutski.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Eating in the state plan can be a difficult process
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: if you aren't working with an expert who can make
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: sure your plan is secure. Cushing and Dolan can help.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Call them today at eight six six eight four eight
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine. Estate Planning is their business and
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: their new monthly guide is called Detour a head estate
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: planning blunders to avoid. Don't put your assets at risk
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: and open yourself up to severe tax consequences. Even if
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: you already have a plan, this guide may correct an
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: issue that could come back to haunt you in the
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: years to come. Proper estate planning is crucial to you
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: being able to enjoy your later years, and it may
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: be the difference between retiring comfortably or living under incredible
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: financial pressure. Call Cushing and Dolan right now at eight
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: sixty six eight four eight five six ninet nine and
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: get your free guide today. That's eight six six eight
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: four eight five six nine nine, or request an online
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: from their website Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: was paid for in The views expressed are solely those
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan ind or Armstrong
• 51:54
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