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REWIND: The Steelers Soap Opera Season​ · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we're going to talk about the very interesting, very dramatic 2017 Pittsburgh Steelers season.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: My name's Tim Hannon.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: With me as always is I'm Steve Wart.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so this season, yeah, like I said, interesting one.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And one that that's kind of a missed opportunity because the Steelers really had a good team that year, one of their best teams that year, and they just kind of couldn't get out of their own way.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So let's give some background in terms of what led up to this season.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: In the early 2010s, the the Steelers team that had gone to three Super Bowls in the 2000s started to slowly age out, and you had key pieces of that team like Troy Palomalo and Aaron Smith, Heinz Wardheath Miller, uh James Ferrier, Casey Hampton, right, all those guys that were such pillars of those teams just all got old and retired.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's normal in sports.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: That happens all the time.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have your window, you either do something with it or you don't, and then you try to rebuild for another run.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say the Steelers did pretty good with their window in the 2000s.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: They made it to three Super Bowls, they won two championships, and that was despite the Patriots dynasty being in their conference.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that's that's pretty good success.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that is different for the Steelers is they as they go into this new decade with guys retiring.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing that they still have is their franchise quarterback, Ben Rothisberger.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's only um, you know, not even really halfway through his career at that point.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and he's still got a lot of potentially a lot of years left, but probably not with the way he played, which was very improvisational.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ben scrambled around a lot in the pocket.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: He always tried to make plays, he was very successful doing that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it it got him hit a lot and it got him hurt a lot.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2012, they make the controversial decision to fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, who you know had these had this offensive scheme that was predicated a lot on long developing receiver routes and Ben holding onto the ball a long time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they brought in a Pittsburgh native named Todd Haley to transform the offense and really to transform Ben.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and Ben doesn't really like it at first, pretty vocal about that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it ultimately ends up being, I think, a pretty good success because Ben really starts to put up big numbers and probably more important for the long-term success of his career, he's staying healthier.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Steve, what do you think about that decision?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it was funny because I'm when you just said to fire Bruce Arians, it's funny you use that word because they said he was retiring.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's right.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then also I always think of like Todd Haley in the same vein as um Michelle Terrien.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's a very good coach and he'll turn you around, but there's definitely a shelf life with him.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: There, he's only going to be effective for a certain amount of time.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: He's just like a get in your face kind of guy.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the kind of guy that Ben needed at that point in his career.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Bruce Arians is a great coach, but Bruce Arians is a quarterback killer.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: He went through what after that when he was head coach Arizona, didn't he go through like four code over quarterbacks, including Drew Stanton in one year?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean he he can he can get his quarterbacks killed at times.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I I think you're right.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to sum it up.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's what the probably what the Steelers needed at the time.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was not going to last forever, and Haley was definitely a guy that was abrasive.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: The story on him was always that he was the only guy that ever made Kurt Warner say a swear word.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when he was but Kurt Warner also said, you know what, sometimes they needed that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they needed shoot out, you know, he was there to, you know.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's he credited him with a big reason why they made the Super Bowl that year.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so the offense definitely is kind of reformed and putting up bigger numbers.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It also helps that the Steelers surround Ben with some really great talent, and and mainly two guys, running back Le'Veon Bell and wide receiver Antonio Brown.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for the first time since the 1970s, you can say that the Steelers actually have a top five quarterback, running back, and wide receiver all at the same time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Bell and Brown, those two guys, just immensely talented, but also very high maintenance, as we'll get into more later in the episode.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers also put a lot of effort into rebuilding their crumbling defense.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: They use a lot of number one draft picks on defense.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the results aren't quite as stellar as what they'd been able to do rebuilding the offense.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, you know, they're able to field a competitive defense, kind of middle of the road defense that does seem to be improving year over year.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the big reasons that it's starting to improve around the middle of the decade is in 2014 they they draft a player, a linebacker named Ryan Shazier, who um is is just a very different kind of player.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: He's a guy that you can he can he can blitz, he can uh cover, he can play the run.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's sort of a do-it-all, and they they start to center the whole defense around him, sort of like they had centered the defense around Troy Polomalu in the in the 2000s.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So he becomes very quickly a very key component of that defense.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh by 2017, all the the all this rebuilding is finally starting to flourish.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers make it back to the playoffs in 2014.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: They win their first playoff game in five years in 2015, and then in 2016, they make it all the way to the ASC championship game.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really a credit to general manager Kevin Colbert and head coach Mike Tomlin because if you think about it, the Steelers had two Super Bowl errors in their history, the 1970s and the 2000s.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And as we detailed in an earlier episode where we talked about the Steelers of the 1980s, you know, when they tried to rebuild after the 70s teams all got old and aged out, they failed pretty miserably.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And granted, they didn't have the benefit of having their franchise quarterback into the next decade, but they also didn't have things like free agency and salary caps that they had to contend with.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I really think Colbert and Tomlin do an excellent job here to take the Super Bowl teams of the 2000s, see them all age out, and by 2016 you're back in the ASC championship game.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So 2017 is really supposed to be the year that they take the next step.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, 14 they make the the first round, 15 they make the second round, 16 they make the championship game.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so 2017, you know, if if they're progressing kind of one one step at a time, they should be in the Super Bowl.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they certainly had the talent that year to do it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're definitely one of the favorites.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And really the only thing standing in their way is their own dysfunction, which by that time had started to become an issue.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so there had been some um things that had happened in recent years that you know we're starting to teeter on dysfunctional.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Le'Veon Bell had been caught uh driving a car on McKnight Road with Legarrett Blunt, his teammate at the time.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: They were high on pot when they were pulled over.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was a whole mess.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Leguerit Blunt that same year he walks out on the team in the middle of a game.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Antonio Brown, there were a bunch of little incidents with him.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, probably the most recent uh leading up to that season was in the in the divisional playoffs the year before they had beaten Kansas City.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then A B started live streaming from the locker room, which is supposed to be a private conversation, and he's live streaming it on social media, uh, just always doing ridiculous things like that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh Martavis Bryan, who was a wide receiver who was uh very young and very promising, he had been suspended for an entire season for substance abuse.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so there was definitely some some cracks in the armor.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I think up to up to that point, I don't know that it was I don't know that it was a whole lot more than what other teams deal with.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: You could certainly debate that, but definitely by the end of this 2017 season the Steelers are on a whole different level with stuff like that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I uh the Laguerre Blunt thing that I still like I have not a lot of evidence of this, but I still think the Patriots tampered.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I totally am convinced that the Patriots tampered.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: They were texting him, get yourself kicked off the team, we'll pick you up as soon as you do.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I you know I I I don't I just that just smacks it like because like and I've heard stories of that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like even Jim McMahon just told a story about when he was in Cleveland, Belichick did that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: They told him to move his whole family to Cleveland, and then he cuts them, and then he's like, just stay in Cleveland for like five weeks, and or you know, we'll put you back on and he let him stay in Cleveland for five weeks and didn't pay him until they finally needed him.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it would yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: So and and Martavius Bright, I I don't know.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I guess he just I don't know.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what the like that guy wasted a lot of talent, it's a shame, because he was he could have been very good.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: He was still pretty good, he just could have had a longer career, I think, if he just would have kept himself a little more together.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I wouldn't put anything past Belichick and the Patriots at this point.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're just the way that that they figure out to manipulate games, manipulate systems, manipulate people.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're just they're very good or bad.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's downright illegal.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like against the rules.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're not allowed to do that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're literally not allowed to do that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's tampering, but whatever.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Never stopped them before.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's talk about that actual season.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it starts, well, let's talk about the off-season first, because the off-season, from a personnel perspective, goes really well.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the Steelers that year, they draft TJ Watt in the first round.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: He ends up, not necessarily that season, but later on becomes a very good player.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Juju Smith Schuster, who's a very young wide receiver that they take in the second round.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then James Conner, who they draft in the third round from Pitt.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I remember that one specifically because I went to bed before they made that draft pick, and I woke up and I looked at my phone to see who they picked.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait, James Conner?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was so excited because James Conner was my favorite player at Pitt.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they also that year acquired Joe Hayden, who had been cut by Cleveland in a salary cap move, and he ends up being a very effective cornerback for them.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they signed Tyson Alualu to be their nose tackle.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's another guy that uh ends up being very key.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and they they pick up tight end Vance McDonald.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: They also get some guys back that offseason.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we had mentioned Brian had been suspended the entire season before that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming back.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then Cam Hayward had gotten injured uh about midway through that 2016 season.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: They did not have him for that run to the AFC Championship game, and he's really the heart and soul of their defense, and he's coming back full strength.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, from a personnel perspective, I mean, they are stacked and loaded and ready for a run.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: But not everything that offseason goes smoothly.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, on April 13th, Dan Rooney passes away at the age of 84.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot about Dan Rooney on previous episodes.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I think he's the most important person in the history of the franchise.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I realize his father founded the team and his father kept the team alive during some very lean years.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there's probably no stealers at all if it weren't for his dad.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I would argue that there's no six Super Bowls, you know, uh team that has only had seven losing seasons in the last 50 years, era kind of success without Dan.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a loss.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big loss.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: The other downer about that offseason is Le'Veon Bell is a free agent, and the Steelers decide to use the franchise tag on them.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the franchise tag, the history of that was uh when free agency came into the NFL in the early 90s, so so before the early 90s, there there was really no free agency.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you drafted a guy, you basically could keep him as long as you wanted to.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the players fought for free agency and they finally got it, but there was a caveat that the owners got into the deal, which was this franchise tag.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea was that you could designate one player that was just too important to lose.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: You just couldn't lose that player.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think probably the NFL owners looked at what was happening in baseball, where you had like Barry Bonds and Greg Maddox and these super high-tier players just jumping to other teams, and and they just they couldn't they realized that Dan Marino going to you know the the Vikings or John Elway going to the Falcons would have just been bad for football and bad for fans, and fans not being able to root for their favorite players anymore.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they included this thing where you could franchise tag a player, and the Steelers, uh, you know, 20 years later, they use that on Le'Veon Bell to keep him from leaving in free agency.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means is Bell can't sign anywhere else.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers have the exclusive negotiating rights with them, and if they can't get a deal done, then Bell has to play for one year.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, Steve, is it like the highest, the average of the highest paid running backs, top five highest paid running backs?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's the top, I mean, which I don't think that's bad, unless you think like the overall market is set so low.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, but I mean, how much did Todd Gurley just get a couple years back?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: He got like a ton of money, didn't he?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean he did, and that was that was the season after this.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it's funny they mentioned Todd Gurley because when the Steelers first franchise It's a perfect example of why you shouldn't pay people.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and that's why when the when the Steelers first franchise tagged them, I thought that the goal was just eke one more year out of them and then let them go.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is not smart, typically, it has not worked out well to sign a running back to a big second contract.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and and you know, in this era, it kind of goes through like these, you know, trends with with football because running backs were devalued a lot.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's why that's why the Steelers got Bell in the second round.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, he was the first running back picked in that draft, and it wasn't until the second round.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then when Gurley had that monster season, it kind of flipped back to oh, running backs are are are valuable, but then they gave Gurley all that money, and he and that that was not smart.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I really thought the Steelers were just trying to eat out one more year.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: They really had no interest in signing him, but they actually did.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: They actually offer him a five-year,$70 million deal.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Bell turns it down.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: That that was so stupid.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: He would have made so much more.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't know how much of that was guaranteed, but I guarantee you he would have made more money, probably whatever guaranteed money than whatever he ended up making.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and as we'll talk about later, he loses two years before he is able to sign that big contract.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of stinks for him because the franchise tag did kind of hose him.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a bad deal for him to play on a franchise tag because running backs are prone to injury, they don't have a long career, and now you're gonna play a whole season, even if it is that high salary, it's an it's you're guaranteed nothing beyond that season.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, but that's I mean, his union agreed to that, so it is what it is.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for the Steelers, I I thought it was a bad idea to offer him all that money.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad he turned it down because it just it wasn't a good deal for us, I didn't think.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um Bell Bell does turn it down.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: He thinks that he should be paid more like a receiver because he catches so many passes out of the backfield.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So he holds out for the entire preseason.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: He kind of becomes uh, you know, big enemy of the Steeler fans.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I honestly, Steve, I didn't hold it against him for for the principle of holding out.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just kind of said, I can see where it was a bad deal for him and why he would want to hold out.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then he kind of like said and did some things that just were, I don't know, it rubbed people the wrong way.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think if he would have came out and articulated, hey, look, I love the fans, I um it's nothing personal, but this is a bad deal for me.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there still would have been people that have been like, do your job, I do my job, you know, and I I bring my heart out to work every day.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think there still would have been people that would have been mad at him, but I think he could have.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I think he could have had more people on his side had he handled it differently.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it ended up just being I don't know.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just think he's a knucklehead.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I do like he is.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was gonna say this for the end, but this I really did not like this team.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just I don't like the players, I I just I mean outside of like Ben and some of the uh I really the there's only like I can only think of like one team that I'm a really big fan of that I really didn't like.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was the pit team that got Dave Wonstadt fired.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And this the this era of teams.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're just such idiots.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're just idiots.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just they did everything but win.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like and I don't mean like win in the regular season because they did, but they but like win in the playoffs, and it's just like it's just I I don't know.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, we'll get in that word later.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, and and you're right, it was a hard team to like, and and we'll definitely get into that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, with the Dallas Cowboys without the success.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's so uh whatever.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's an apt comparison, actually.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like the 90s Cowboys teams.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, only the Cowboys won three Super Bowls.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever drama they had, they were able to overcome it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as we'll get into, the Steelers really aren't.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So so Bell, that's a big distraction during preseason, that whole holdout.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he does agree right before the season starts, he does ultimately agree to play under the franchise tag.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So he's gonna play that season under the franchise tag.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers opened that year with wins over Cleveland and Minnesota.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was the year that Cleveland was looking to improve on their 1-15 record from the previous year, and instead goes 0-16 because, you know, Hugh Jackson.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in week three, the Steelers traveled to Chicago to play the Bears.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that weekend, there's a huge controversy involving the national anthem, as I'm sure a lot of people remember.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the history here was that there was a quarterback for the 49ers, Colin Kaepernick, who the year before it started kneeling for the national anthem to protest police brutality.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then there were other players who eventually joined in with that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes a very controversial issue, I would say, with people on both sides feeling very strongly about it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there were people that were um in favor of that and thought it was it was a good cause and bringing awareness to an issue that was important.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: There were other people that thought it was disrespectful to the flag and to people that had served in the military.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think what a lot of people forget is that by week three of the 2017 season, when the Steelers are heading to Chicago, the whole thing is dead.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's really dead.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kaepernick is out of the league at that point, and anyone else who had been kneeling had either, I guess, either feels like their point has been made or just the fad had worn off.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you if you if you look, I don't know if any way was tracking how many players were kneeling, but by that point there really wasn't any.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you try to find news stories, the pierogi races.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: All the pierogi races.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that those stats are hidden somewhere on the internet.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: We just haven't found them yet.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: But but if you if you try to find like a news story about national anthem and NFL from week one and week two of the 2017 season, good luck.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna find it because it was it was dead.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was literally dead.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the Friday before the week three games, uh President Donald Trump makes a speech to supporters in Alabama where he goes off on NFL players who kneel for the anthem.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: He calls them SOBs, he says they should all be fired, that they disrespect the flag, etc.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of strong rhetoric directed at the players.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I just want to emphasize one more time, no one was actually doing that at the time anymore.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I'm not gonna try to I'm gonna try so hard not to get political here.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just say that love them or hate them, Donald Trump had this uncanny ability to rile people up and to push buttons and to and to kind of bully people who didn't like him into no-win situations.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that really benefited him politically and worked really well for him for a long time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so now some of the NFL players feel like they have to respond.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like he he gave them an ultimatum like you'll stand up and and do what I tell you to do, or you'll you know defy me.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know that that was I don't know that they needed to respond, but they definitely feel like they have to respond, especially the African American players.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so now every team is spending time during that weekend figuring out how they're going to respond.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And some players demonstrate that weekend, uh, they kneel, and other players take to Twitter.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say to his credit, Mike Tomlin keeps the Steelers pretty poised through all this.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: They meet as a team, they talk about what to do.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Tomlin says, you know, I will support you guys in whatever you decide, but we're going to do it as a team.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to go out there and have some guys stand and some guys kneel or whatever.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um they they they they talk about it, they meet as a team, and they all agree on a kind of a third option, which is that they just won't even come out for the anthem.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: They'll just wait in the tunnel as one team.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so now they're not nobody can say like that they're they're standing to to you know in support of President Trump.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's saying that they're kneeling as some anti-American haters, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're just gonna sort of punt and just not do anything, just not even come out for the anthem.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and they because they figure, you know, whatever they decide there's gonna take off half their fan base, so they just they're just not gonna come out for the anthem.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I get what they were thinking, I think.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I it wasn't a terrible idea in theory, Steve, but man, it ends up backfiring.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it does.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So so what happened?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm sorry, I just like I made up my mind a long time ago, and this is just editorial.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I'm not gonna comment on politics on this podcast because who wants to hear the ramblings of a high school graduate?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I yeah, whatever.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, cool.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a cool story about the anthem, though.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Here you go.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of like, my my dad is a veteran and all that, and so we're at a pit game and um they're playing the national anthem, and I guess Congress passed a law that if you're a veteran, you can keep your hat on and salute the flag.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you're like like a veteran, like someone that's not active serving.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So my dad does that, and like some usher comes up and tells my dad to take off his hat, and he's like, Oh, I can put all like there's like this big like five-minute discussion over why my dad can keep his hat on, and so it was like I I I I at that point I just wanted to you know jump in the river or something, but hey, whatever.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's all good in the hood.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, but the whole right.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it it's there's no winning, and like I said, I just so much has been said about it.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I just don't want to I I don't think anybody cares about my opinion on the topic.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So and and like I think I think I think people on both sides felt very passionately, and I think people on both sides made their arguments.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: See what I mean about no win situations?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So so anyway, the Steelers, yeah, the Steelers, what happens is CBS is televising the game, and of course, CBS is all too eager to show you know every every possible camera angle of every of everything during the anthem, which of course the week before you probably didn't even televise the anthem, but now they're you know, what what are teams going to do?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have to see, we have to see.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and so they they film uh the Steelers uh in the tunnel, but but but the camera shot, it's offensive tackle Alejandro Villanueva, who's a former Army Ranger, he's kind of standing in front.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're all in the tunnel, but he's like in the front and he has his hand on his heart as they're playing the anthem.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so now, because of the way that that's shown on TV, it kind of looks like the team is all protesting by staying inside.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Villanueva, this brave American hero who fought for his country, uh, you know, very courageously defied them all because he just just how much he loves America.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's actually not what happens at all.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, I I think as we've seen on both sides of the political aisle in recent years, uh, truth is always not as important as narrative.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so the narrative is, you know, villain the wave is uh an American hero, and the rest of the team are these anti-American bums.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's actually pictures and stuff that show that, you know, Ben and a whole bunch of other guys are standing behind him with their hands on their hearts, but you never saw that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, the the whole story is that the Steelers are these if they just would have came out and knelt, it would have been basically the same reaction.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So now the Steelers spend the entire next week doing damage control.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um Ben and Cam Hayward do like a joint press conference where they try to explain, no, no, no, that's not what happened.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't our intent.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Bill and the way it even has to issue a statement where he apologizes even though he did nothing wrong.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole thing's just a mess.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and that that's really, again, the drama that just kind of follows his team all season.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: That whole thing was just Did they win that game in Chicago?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even remember.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, they lost in overtime.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: They did.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: I thought they did.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, that's right.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Chicago really wasn't that good that year, if I remember.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, with all the distractions and all the mess.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that game had a kind of had a crazy ending, too, going into overtime, and that's that's another trend that kind of starts.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers, um, two weeks later, they come back home.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're humiliated in a 30-9 loss against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And in that game, the the Jaguars run all over the Steelers' defense.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: They had a rookie, a running back named Leonard Fournette, who racks up almost 200 yards by himself.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And their quarterback, Blake Bordos, he only has to throw 14 passes in that game, which just shows you how dominant the Jaguars were on the ground when your quarterback only has to throw 14 passes.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Ben probably a good thing when your quarterback is Blake Bordles.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Less is more.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Less is more with Blake there.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, yes.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Although he had a pretty good year that year, as we'll get into later.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Ben has an awful game.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: He throws five interceptions.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And really, that was a trend all throughout the beginning of that season.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: The offense had sputtered.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Ben was uh Bell, especially was rusty from the holdout.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then Ben was very up and down.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um you could usually count on him at home.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Usually during that first half of the season, he'd be bad on the road and good at home, but now at home he throws five interceptions.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and after the game, he does a press conference, and they're interviewing him, oh, Ben, what happened?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he's just like, I don't know.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I and he says, quote, maybe I don't have it anymore.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not playing well enough.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And he's probably just being a little mopey and and feeling bad for himself after throwing five interceptions.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: But once again, this narrative forms that that Ben's washed up and and Ben just doesn't even want to play anymore, like he's just mentally checked out.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So so now here's a whole whole bunch of drama around the quarterback that's starting to form.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that, Steve, when he said maybe I don't have anything?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, people like I think the people that hold grudges against him for like how I I think when he first got to Pittsburgh, he was a jerk.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then as he like we all do, you mature and you know you're you get a little better with you know behavior and just dealing with people and realizing that you know just being a jerk all the time isn't you know good for yourself or it's not very nice to treat, you know, way to treat other people.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Ben's had that change, you know?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: And people just don't want to accept that or forgive him for you know his past, you know, curve fumbles or you know, past you know, things he's done wrong.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they hold it against him, and this is just you know, this is a chance to score points, you know.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So and I too, I think like the media I think now though, like after last season with them, like I think there's just certain media outlets that are trying just they know if they pick on certain players with certain teams they'll get a reaction.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas other teams they won't.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you said I don't even know, who's the quarterback of like I don't know, the Minnesota Vikings, you know?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cousins stinks, you know, you're not gonna get you know a super duper reaction, you know.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if you say Ben Rothesburger stinks, you know, all the Steeler fans are all upset, you know?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, Ben has always been oddly polarizing.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I never quite understood why.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're right, he he rubbed people the wrong way early on, but I mean the second half of his career, I I don't know.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I never quite understood that.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: But definitely after this game, that's all that's a whole again, a whole whole lot of drama.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and the Steelers are now 3-2, and they're headed to Arrowhead Stadium to play the undefeated Chiefs, and they really need a win.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the big play of that game comes in the final minutes.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are clinging to a two-point lead.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: They have third down at midfield, and so if they fail to convert, Kansas City's gonna get the ball back and have a chance to drive for the game-winning field goal.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And Ben throws a pass down the left sideline, it's tipped by a defender, and then it's snagged out of the air by A B, who runs it in for a touchdown.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a tremendous play, and it's Steelers get a huge win against a good team.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: That was lucky.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was a lucky win.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was lucky, and it's and it starts a streak.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's it kind of kicks off two things.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: One, it starts a streak of games where the Steelers offense finally starts clicking.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Bell Bell does recover from that slow start.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: He ends up being named a first team all pro that year and has 1,300 yards rushing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and Antonio Brown also a first team all pro that year.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then rookie wide receiver Juju Smith Schuster, who we talked about, was drafted that year.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: He quickly becomes a fan favorite in Pittsburgh.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: He has the entire city out looking for a stolen bicycle.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's still a Twitter account called Juju's Bike or something out there.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he's pretty good on the field, too.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: He has a he has a couple of big plays that year, including a 97-yard touchdown reception in Detroit in week eight.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then Ben, too.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for all the talk of maybe I don't have it anymore, he actually goes out and ends up having a 4,000-yard Pro Bowl season.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the offense really after that Jacksonville game starts to starts to click.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it starts the streak of the offense doing all it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Also, to your point, Steve, about kind of like fluky lucky finishes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: It starts the streak of games where the Steelers pull all these wins out of their rear ends in the final minutes.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I just I could not believe that season how many games where they really had no business winning, but they just won.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and a few examples of that, besides the Kansas City game.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in week 10, they're getting crushed by a really bad Indianapolis team, but they mount this furious second half comeback and they win on a last second Chris Boswell field goal.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: In week 12, they're struggling against a Green Bay team that didn't have Aaron Rodgers.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And some guy named Brett Hunley throws for three touchdowns against them.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be smirched, Brett Hunley, who's a great quarterback of whatever college he went to.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that game also comes down to Boswell.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a um that time it's a 53-yard field goal that Boswell makes to win the game at the buzzer.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then in week 14, the Steelers and Ravens play probably, I would say, one of their wildest games ever.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a 39-38 Steelers victory.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers have to score twice in the final minutes to take the lead.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then the game famously ends with Baltimore huddling up for a Hail Mary pass, only to hear the referee say this.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: That is the end of the game.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what it There you have it.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: What had happened there was the the clock was still ticking and the Ravens didn't realize it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they're huddling up, and it just ticks down to zero, and the referee's like, game over.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that was a crazy game.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that I Ben had 500 yards passing in that game.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was just it was, you know, for years you had all the 10-7 Pittsburgh-Baltimore games, and and that was not one of those.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: 39 to 38 with a bunch of crazy big plays.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really how the Steelers are winning, which was fun, but not necessarily sustainable.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So on the field, the games are dramatic.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Off the field, things are also dramatic, um, besides the stuff we already mentioned.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Martavis Bryant publicly tells ESPN that he's not happy with his playing time, and also that he demands to be traded.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers kind of say, like, who the heck are you?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: To you know, to go out there and and gripe the ESPN when you were suspended all last year.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: They actually end up demoting him to the scout team.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Antonio Brown, also not happy about the way things are going offensively.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: He throws a tantrum after a play where he's wide open and Ben doesn't pass him the ball.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he comes on the sideline, starts screaming at everybody, and throws a Gatorade cooler.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: That gets replayed a thousand times.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh James Harrison, who's now on his third stint with the Steelers in his fourth season since retiring, he'd actually retired and then come back.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: He apparently does a lot of stuff.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's also not happy about playing time, and he does a lot of stuff to try to force the Steelers to release him.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he falls asleep during meetings, he leaves practice early.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: And in December, the Steelers ultimately do release him, and he ends up signing with the Patriots, and who knows if Belitech orchestrated that one or not.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but that was kind of a that was kind of a I mean I think James Harrison will always be remembered in this town for the hundred-yard interception return in the Super Bowl and a lot of other good things.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know that anybody will hold ill will against him, but that was just an unfortunate way for him to end his steel art career.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was not classy, but that's James Harrison.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he kind of has that.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, people like will give him the benefit of the doubt, but won't give Ben it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I don't I don't understand that at all.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometime we should do a an episode about like who we hold grudges against and who we don't, because yeah, I it's interesting.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I respect James Harrison for what he did, and I think he was one of the Steeler greats, but he did some absolute like jerk stuff too.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: So he did.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Good for him, I guess.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh another another goofy thing that happens is uh Lawrence Timmins is hanging out at Steeler practice, and the reason that's odd is because Lawrence Timmins doesn't play for the Steelers anymore.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, he'd signed with the Dolphins during the offseason.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And Lawrence Timmins was I I think one of the more underrated players on that on those great Steelers defenses.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: He was Tomlin's first ever draft pick, and he never got, you know, he was never as flappy or as big of a star as guys like Harrison or or you know Aaron Smith or Troy or whatever, but he was very solid linebacker for a whole decade for the Steelers.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: He leaves for Miami that offseason.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he comes back to Pittsburgh like and he's sitting in on their practice and he's telling his former teammates reportedly that he made a mistake and wants to come back.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then a few days later he goes, AWOL from Miami.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the Dolphins the Dolphins actually filing file a missing persons report because they have no idea where he is.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and eventually he's found and promptly suspended by the Dolphins.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: So even even guys that had left the team that year are creating drama.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that too.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I remember like, I don't know.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Why would the Dolphins file a missing persons report?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know not your job to babysit me.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's just me.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Probably they maybe because they had millions of dollars invested in them.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I I yeah, who knows?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: That that was really strange.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you just put a tracking chip in my tooth then?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, seriously.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Jeez.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what Belichick would do.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's why that's why the Dolphins could never compete in that division.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, hold on.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Brady, do you think he deactivated that when he went to Tampa?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, it's just one distraction after the other, after the other.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the Steelers, they just keep somehow winning games, and often by very close margins, as we detailed earlier.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: In week 13, they travel to Cincinnati for a Monday night football game against the Bengals, and it quickly devolves into one of the ugliest, most cringe worthy games in NFL history.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: It it's awful.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's multiple late hits, personal fouls, just ugly plays, and and for sure, the lowest moment of the night is when Ryan Shazier tries to make a tackle and suffers a severe spinal cord injury, and he's unable to move his legs, doctors aren't sure if he'll ever walk again.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and to his credit, you know, Shazier in in subsequent years works very hard, makes a a very strong recovery, and is able to walk again, but his football career ends on that night on the turf in Cincinnati.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't the Jerry Porter game, is it?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was the playoff game.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was the yeah.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is the game that um Juju got suspended for hitting uh this is when Juju became a fan favorite even more because he he totally destroyed Vontez Perfect.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then A B got got you know totally clocked on a late hit in the end zone.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it was just it was a culmination of a lot of years, and we'll do an episode about the Stewart's and Bengals at some point, but it was a culmination of a lot of years of just ugly, ugly Steeler Bengals garbage.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I remember after that game, I just was like, and to your point about not liking this anymore, I I just felt like I just felt like what did I just watch?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like guilty for watching it, if that makes sense.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Felt like you're in the Roman Coliseum rooting for the lions or something, yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not great ones either, yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good comparison.
• 40:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: For the game itself, it's just another ho-hum.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Steelers are down by 17 points and come back to win on a last second field goal type of game.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what else is new?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the offense is pulling out these games at the end.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now the defense is left to try to defend for itself without its centerpiece player.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and that all kind of um leads to a huge week 15 game at home against the New England Patriots, the vaunted New England Patriots.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are 11-2, the Patriots are 10-3, and the winner of that game is going to be the number one seed in the AFC playoffs.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a great classic back and forth game.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers actually hold a 24-19 lead in the final minutes, which, you know, is not their MO that year to actually be in the lead.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and Tom Brady gets the ball back, and he and Rob Gronkowski do what Brady and Gronk always did to the Steelers.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: They march downfield for a touchdown and they take a 27-24 lead.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers get the ball back, but there's only 52 seconds left, and they're deep in their own territory, you know, just trying to maybe get into field goal range.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And on the first play, Ben hits Smith Schuster on this little crossing route, and I was at that game.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I didn't understand how it happened at the time.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went back and watched it just before we we did this episode.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I still don't understand how it happened.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just this little innocent crossing route, and somehow Smith Schuster just sort of gets by everybody and he goes down the field 70 yards all the way to the New England 10-yard line.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think at that point maybe the uh spy cameras got turned off or something.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So they didn't know what play was coming.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: There was fog on them or something.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: So so on the next play, Ben hits Jesse James for the go-head touchdown, and Heinsfield erupts.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually going to beat the New England Patriots.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually going to get the best of Belichick in a big situation.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: But hold everything because they're reviewing the play.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, Jesse James apparently did not catch that ball.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: And don't believe what your eyes just saw.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, we did a couple of episodes.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: We did an episode about Pittsburgh versus the refs.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we went into this in more detail there.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was just, it was just, you know, the for years the NFL had decided some sometime around the beginning of the decade that a catch wasn't a catch anymore.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: In a game where Calvin Johnson beat the Bears, and they said, no, Calvin Johnson, you actually didn't catch the ball.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody said, wait, what?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he did.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and no, and they just never did anything with that after.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: They just they were okay with this really ambiguous, really ridiculous.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you had to catch the ball, you had to like take three laps around the field, you had to, you know, I mean, it was it was so dumb.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think I said it one in one uh one point, you hand it to the referee, make sure the referee didn't drop it.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Put it in a glass case.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it so it would it's the most ridiculous call ever.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not even the referee's fault, it was the role's fault.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so now the Steelers don't have a touchdown, and then two plays later, Ben throws an interception in the end zone, and that's the end of the game, and now the Patriots are going into the playoffs as a number one seed instead of the Steelers.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and I that game, Steve, I I to me, the only other game I can think of that had that kind of up and down emotional swing, wild emotional swings in the final minutes is that 05 Colts playoff game.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing I can compare it to in terms of like we're we're gonna win this.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, we're gonna lose this, oh we're gonna win this, oh my gosh, we just got hosed by the refs.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: It just was such wild emotional swings, and I just thought it fit perfectly into that season.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and I think too, like people always say, Oh, character is overrated.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you see that this team obviously.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Had a lack of character, and I think that that was a big reason why they couldn't overcome some of the adversity that was put into them.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say this about this year.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't remember there was a linebacker for the Patriots.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can't remember his name, just off the top of my head, but he got hurt like in the first month or two of the season, and it took Belichick like a full month to figure out his defense after that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Third defense stunk for four weeks in a row before he finally could figure out, you know, how to work the defense.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Shazier's injury happened so late in the season that the Steelers, now I don't know, you know, Keith Butler maybe would have figured it out, maybe he wouldn't have, but I mean that that was a big thing.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: It just I just think the Steelers could just never quite, and I think you mentioned just could never really like figure out how to adjust their defense to like you know survive without Shazier.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because that that you don't realize it's kind of like you what you said about Lawrence Timmins, you don't realize those guys are really key.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like a linebacker is really not having one or having a a bad one is uh boy, that's that'll really uh kill you.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: And especially that linebacker because they really they did kind of revolve a lot of the the defense around him being right there in the middle.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the Steelers head in the playoffs, now they're in the number two seed.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um they they still get a bye, but the problem is there were three good teams in the AFC that year.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was New England, Pittsburgh, and Jacksonville.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And two of the three losses that the Steelers had that year were to those other two teams.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if the Jesse Games catch had counted, they would have hosted Tennessee in the divisional playoffs.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was a team they had absolutely destroyed a few weeks earlier.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: But instead, they get a rematch in the divisional round with Jacksonville, the team that had throttled them back in October.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, nobody nobody really expected that to happen again because the Steelers, you know, have hopefully learned from that game and they're heading into the playoffs healthy.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, there's there's been a lot said about Mike Tomlin's failure in the playoffs since he he went to those two Super Bowls.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: But man, so many of so many of the playoff games they lost, they were they were just ravaged by injury.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: So when they lost uh in 2014, they didn't have LeVeon Bell.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: They were starting a running back off the street.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 2015, they they when they lost that game, they didn't have A B.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ben had a bummed shoulder, and they didn't have Bell again.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they had the who was that third string running back that fumbled in Denver Tucson, Fitzgerald Tucson.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and then and then even when they lost the championship game.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Hightower was the name of the linebacker from the Patriots.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: I that just came to my mind.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently Fitzgerald Tucson made me remember uh Hightower.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't remember his first name still though.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 2016, they um they when they lost to the Patriots, they bell was kind of hurt for that game.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So so they always had injuries, and now with a bye week, that was the first time they had a bye week since their their last Super Bowl appearance.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so they they got that bye week in the playoffs.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: They were they were totally other than Chazier, obviously, but they were as healthy as they had ever been heading to a playoff game.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: So so again, you know, this this is this is a good place to be, you're thinking.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the Steelers have to create some sort of distraction leading up to the game, and Levian Bell's happy to put his you know name in the ring of causing a controversy.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: He he tweets about meeting the Patriots for quote round two in the AFC championship game.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then Mike Mitchell, he guarantees a win against the Patriots.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: And meanwhile, it's like you guys know you have to play Jacksonville first, right?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not you're not you don't get a buy to the championship game to play New England.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and so now, you know, and the Jaguars, you know, use that as bulletin board material who wouldn't.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and sure enough, the Steelers come out looking completely unprepared, and right off the bat they surrender 21 points to the Jaguars.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: So the the offense is totally dormant.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: The defense can't stop anything.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and like we said, they never really recovered from losing Shazir.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Steelers mount a comeback in the second half, they pulled it within seven, and it looks like maybe this is going to be yet another game where the Steelers had no business of winning, but they've pulled that win out of nowhere, miracle victory.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: This time their luck runs out.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of like how many times can you do that, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: How many, how many times can you just live in reckless chaos before you finally lose one of those games?
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: And here they do, and they lose the playoff game 45 to 42.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a stunning and crushing end of the season, but I think we should have all seen it coming because you have this entire season of just toxic dysfunction both on the field and off the field, and and I just think eventually that's going to catch up to you, and it caught up to them in the divisional round.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Steve, to your point about character, right?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some teams can can overcome some of that, and whatever it is that that other teams had that it took to win championships or win big playoff games, this team just didn't have that.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, they were um, I think too, like I thought this for a couple years because the teams went to like stopping the pass because everybody went to like those spread offenses, like and they were just winging the ball around.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_02: And Jacksonville came in with um oh, what's his what's the running?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: What was the running back's name?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: Fournette?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Fournette, and like this old school like running attack.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, oh uh you know, Blake Borrell's only had to throw the ball 14 times in that one win.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like that's their offense, though.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it their offense is one of those that like you can either stop it or you can't, you know.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I just had a feeling that like you know, and once you start, especially that first game where like they just ran all, it's like that's not something you just fix in the course of a season normally, unless you just, you know, sometimes you see it, but not too often.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was more of a lack of talent, you know, even after and I had Shazier for that first game against Jacksonville, and they still I remember they ran all over them in that first game, and they did the exact same thing in the second game.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean I knew Jacksonville wasn't come in here and just lay down, so I I wasn't totally surprised it went that way.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: I really wasn't, and the way, like I said, I didn't really didn't like this team, and I didn't think I know you know people say characters overrated, and yeah, you always want to have you have to have the talent, but if you don't have the character to, or like you know, at least the ability to focus on, you know, I'm not saying you have to be like you know, a bunch of goody two shoes, but at the same time, you can't just be like you said, creating distractions and not focusing on the the game.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it just for some reason it just doesn't, you know, it doesn't work.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: I guess you just too too scatterbrained, or I don't know.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know like this thing just was very dislikable.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just never liked this team.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: If it would have won, if they would have won the Super Bowl, I would have been like, eh, I'm an ick, you know.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I don't know that I would have been been too upset about them winning the Super Bowl, but I I agree with everything else you said that they were not likable.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think that you know there was a lot of people that weren't Stuart fans that were it was very satisfying to see them go lay an egg in the playoffs.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't fault those people because I would have been the same way if this would have been, you know, Philadelphia.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: This would have been the Bengals or yeah, the Browns, or you know.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, for sure.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I even look at the Browns the year before to the year after, they were doing this kind of silliness the year that and they didn't make the playoffs, and it's funny they get a coach in there who kind of like seemed like he was competent and laid down the law, and they make it to the to the you know, the wild the divisional round of the playoffs.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing how a little bit of discipline goes a long way.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a culture thing, and I think it only takes a few guys to.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think even if even if you have the right coach in there, sometimes it's there's this poison to the culture that it can't be fixed until those people are not part of the culture anymore.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's what and this made me start start dating uh doubting Tomlin really as a coach.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: This this these seasons, it's just is like these guys are especially you after nothing was done about Brown and his antics, and it wasn't just like oh he did it once, you know, it was just you know, Juju, even Juju Smith Schuster doesn't do like he does like stuff, but I think that's more generational.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that's the way the younger generation is.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: They like to do their TikTok stuff, and that it's fine, but it seems like when it comes to on the field, like Juju's ready to go, you know?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the aftermath after that season, uh, despite scoring 42 points in their playoff loss, the Steelers tag, offensive coordinator Dod Hilliard's a scapegoat.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's fired.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: I it's that's not really I'm being a little facetious there.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's not fired because they only scored 42 points in the playoff game.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's he he that's really, I think, to Steve's point earlier about him having a shelf life.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also done to appease Ben because Ben, you know, he had talked retirement before that season, he had talked retirement in the middle of that season, and when they fired Haley, he's never really talked retirement a lot since then.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which I don't think is a coincidence.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's funny too.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, didn't Haley have his own off-the-field issues too?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, didn't he like get in a fight with somebody about a check at a restaurant or something like that?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: I should have I don't know if that was this season.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: I totally forgot about that.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure it was because it would have fit again, fit, fit totally.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: So so Haley's gone.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers, you know, just become known, like I to my point about if you're a fan of another team, uh, wanting them to just see them get their comeuffins.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: They they've just kind of become known as this messed up reality show.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's a a YouTube channel that um that I like called Urinating Tree.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that guy's a that guy's a Pittsburgh fan.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: He starts making these Days of Our Steelers videos.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd say, yeah.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is very just hilarious and easy to make in that era, uh, where he just details the soap opera garbage going on.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: That all that drama, the the worst thing about that drama is it all carries into the next season and continues to just weigh them down.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: They try to franchise Tag Bell again.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: This time he sits out for the entire season.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was so predictable that he was never gonna like he's not the type either to like stay in the gym, work out, stay in shape, stay uh focused.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: You could tell he's just gonna be like off, you know, not taking, you know, if you let yourself go that whole year.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't have a problem with him even sitting out that year if he didn't think it was, you know, money he wanted, and it's just I I I don't know.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know who his agent was, but he wasn't very good because he did love no favors there.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Agree.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: So so so Bell sits out that whole next season, 2018, Ben gets into hot water, he kind of publicly calls out his some of his teammates.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole mess.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: That team the next year starts 7-2-1.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: They did collapse at the end of the season, and shockingly end up missing the playoffs.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then to top all that off, Antonio Brown completely loses his mind and decides to inexplicably sabotage his Hall of Fame career, forces his way out of Pittsburgh, then forces his way out of Oakland and New England as well.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was all then.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say now, several years later, the Steelers are for sure not as stacked with talent as that 2017 team.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say the Steelers now not as talented, but healthier.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's so much easier to root for when he got rid of those those two or three people.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's just uh so much, so much easier to root for.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so much, so much more likable as a team now, a team that you want to root for.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and looking back on that 2017 season, it it's man, it it was just a missed opportunity because that that season should have been the culmination of this brilliant rebuild.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that team put together a really good record, Steve.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a fun fact.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Only the 2004 team and the 1978 team won more games than the 2017 team.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know that?
• 56:56
  unknown: And Steve.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I didn't.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know I've seen like where they compared the triplets like Ben, Bell, and Brown to like the Dallas Cowboys and other like all the like the Dallas and San Francisco, like their numbers are comparable.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: And though all those teams were or even Buffalo, they were all in the Super Bowl, and this team never even what they made it to one championship game.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: In sports, I think you you have talent, and then you have in that talent, you have people that are winners and people that just aren't winners.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers had a lot of guys that just weren't winners, and and so they really blew a good opportunity because they had a great team.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Again, third best record in franchise history, and and they bow out in the first round of the playoffs in in an embarrassing fashion against the Jaguars.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, just kind of a sad, sad era there in Steeler history.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: That team had the the capability to do so much more to to possibly deliver a seventh championship, and they just couldn't do it.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it would have kept the Patriots from winning a Super Bowl, too.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: That would have been a bonus.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I just uh yeah, it's frustrating.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it just just like and there were just like a lot of little things, like always at the end of the half, instead of throwing a Hail Mary, you have to throw that stupid check down to Brown so he can get like his garbage yards.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like they did stuff like I just remember stuff like just annoying me like that because it was just indicative of what this what was important to these players.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Getting my numbers and getting a big payday is better than more important than winning like a championship or super bowl, which I don't think they realize like if you do that, you'll get a big pay payday, and you'll and the Steelers will take care of you, especially if you're like a Super Bowl champion.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: They definitely take care of those guys, at least in my opinion.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean I've never had to work for them, so maybe they don't.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely, definitely misplaced priorities and and again just blown potential.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's a sh it's it's a shame, but I mean I can't say that it wasn't predictable.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agree.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right, folks.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that wraps it up for this episode.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you can check us out on the web or Facebook or Twitter.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: All of those links are in the show description.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: Also like to ask if you'd like to leave a uh review of the show.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, please do that.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: That certainly helps people find us if you like what you hear.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And other than that, we'll catch you next time.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, yins, don't be no jag offs.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.