Latest / Scene Projects Sports Network / Ken Davidoff on Sports Journalism, Teaching, and Lessons from the Dugout

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Ken Davidoff on Sports Journalism, Teaching, and Lessons from the Dugout · Scene Projects Sports Network

• 0:15
  Welcome into the Scene Project Sports Network.
• 0:17
  I am your host, Bubba Starts.
• 0:19
  And with me today, longtime baseball writer, Ken Davidoff.
• 0:23
  Ken, welcome to the show.
• 0:25
  Thanks for having me, Bubba.
• 0:27
  Yeah.
• 0:27
  Well, from covering the Yankees to now the little old Scene Project Sports Network, here
• 0:33
  we I appreciate you spending some time with me today.
• 0:36
  Good to be here.
• 0:38
  Well, we're gonna talk about your book, a 101 lessons from the dugout today, and, we're
• 0:43
  obviously gonna talk about your storied career as a writer on the New York baseball beat.
• 0:48
  But, before we get into all of that, just kinda wanna give you a few moments.
• 0:52
  Give us a little bit of your backstory, and then we'll pick it up from there.
• 0:56
  Sure.
• 0:56
  Born in Queens, New York, grew up in Edison, New Jersey.
• 1:00
  From a very young age, I knew that I love baseball, but, couldn't play it well enough to
• 1:06
  pursue that line of work, but, I love to write.
• 1:10
  So from by the age of seven, I decided I'm going to write about baseball, and,
• 1:14
  specifically, I wanted to cover the Yankees.
• 1:16
  I was able to attain that dream.
• 1:18
  1998, I covered the Yankees for the Bergen record in New Jersey.
• 1:22
  Pretty good year to cover the Yankees and move from the Bergen record to Newsday on Long
• 1:28
  Island, was their Yankees beat writer, then their baseball columnist.
• 1:31
  And then I moved to the New York Post as their baseball columnist.
• 1:35
  And in 2022, as I hit age 50, I decided I was burnt to a crisp, didn't wanna do it anymore,
• 1:42
  quit.
• 1:42
  And since then, I have enjoyed life off the hamster wheel.
• 1:46
  I am promoting this new book, as you mentioned, one into one lessons from the dugout, and I'm
• 1:50
  also an adjunct professor at a college in Massachusetts.
• 1:55
  So cool.
• 1:57
  Dreams do come true.
• 1:58
  Right, Ken?
• 1:59
  Not without a ton of work that you put in to get yourself there.
• 2:05
  Just incredible.
• 2:06
  So congratulations to you for having a dream and really, you know, chasing it.
• 2:10
  I I think that's a lesson lesson number one that we can all take from your life is, hey.
• 2:16
  If you want something, it is achievable even if it's, you know, writing about one of the most
• 2:21
  the most historic franchise in all of Major League Baseball.
• 2:26
  Yeah.
• 2:27
  Yeah.
• 2:27
  I mean, it was, like like you said, I definitely worked hard, and I definitely got
• 2:31
  some breaks.
• 2:31
  You know?
• 2:32
  There's no doubt about it.
• 2:33
  But, I I do preach that, dreams could come true if if you work hard enough.
• 2:40
  Well and exactly.
• 2:41
  I I think we make our own luck in that.
• 2:43
  When you work hard, things the breaks come for you.
• 2:47
  You can't sit idly around and expect things to happen for you and and to you.
• 2:53
  And sometimes bad things happen to good people who are working their butt off, but you gotta
• 2:58
  be able to push through all of that.
• 3:00
  And I'm sure there's been a great amount of perseverance throughout your career, as you
• 3:04
  know, working for several different things.
• 3:06
  Just getting access, getting people to trust you, I think, is something that, maybe a lot of
• 3:11
  people that aren't in the publication or broadcasting business that these athletes and
• 3:17
  these personalities inside of professional sports, especially, I don't think that they're
• 3:22
  pre you know, they're not wired to trust the media in any aspect.
• 3:27
  So talk a little bit about, you know, earning that trust as a young man, you know, beginning
• 3:32
  your writing career and, kinda starting from there.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  Bubba, I will say, and I I agree with your assessment.
• 3:40
  I think that ability to gain people's trust has gotten much harder because of where we are as a
• 3:46
  country in a world.
• 3:48
  And think it was easier when I started in in the mid to late nineties.
• 3:54
  And, really, it was just a matter of you you said showing up, like, just being there every
• 3:59
  day and not being, like, give me.
• 4:03
  Give me.
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  Give me.
• 4:03
  Like, what can you do for me?
• 4:05
  You know, like, just establishing a relationship and and speaking to people as
• 4:09
  human beings and, you know, just just making small talk and and and expressing interest.
• 4:17
  And as opposed to just like, okay.
• 4:19
  This is what I need you to do for me today.
• 4:24
  Can you describe for, you know, our listeners and viewers, I think what we see of the media
• 4:30
  and especially because most of the clips that we see come out are that media scrum.
• 4:34
  Right?
• 4:34
  The postgame interviews or the press conferences and things.
• 4:38
  But that's such a small part of what your day is and maybe what your relationships are, you
• 4:44
  know, inside of that building.
• 4:45
  Can you give us a little bit of insight into what it's really like being a a beat reporter,
• 4:52
  you know, in especially in that New York market?
• 4:55
  Sure.
• 4:56
  Well, you know, the word beat reporter, the term beat reporter, I I think, comes from, you
• 5:00
  know, policemen, and women beat, you know, just patrolling the neighborhood.
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  And that's what your job is to do as a beat reporter, whether it's sports or any other
• 5:11
  arena.
• 5:12
  It's to get to know people.
• 5:14
  And you're a 100% right, but you don't get to know people on a scrum.
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  There are times when the scrum is necessary because people wanna talk to the same person,
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  but scrum should reflect the work that you've already done, you know, to establish trust with
• 5:29
  that person.
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  So, again, it's it's learning from day one.
• 5:33
  It's using yourself to that person, expressing interest in that person, and letting them know,
• 5:38
  hey.
• 5:38
  I'm going to be around, and I would always say, hey.
• 5:41
  You have a problem with me.
• 5:43
  You know what?
• 5:43
  Let's talk.
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  You know, I'm human.
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  I'm going to screw up, but I'm open to criticism and and and to talking things
• 5:52
  through.
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  So it was it was just a matter of building up that trust and and with volume, you know, just
• 5:59
  and in terms of sports, in terms of baseball, it meant, like, doing the road trip in Kansas
• 6:04
  City.
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  And and then that stands out when you're one of eight in Kansas City and then you're one of 50
• 6:12
  in New York, then the the players remember the eight who were there in Kansas City.
• 6:16
  You know, that has value.
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  That has meaning.
• 6:20
  Was that did you travel with the team all season during, your during your time?
• 6:27
  Not literally with the team, like, on the same plane.
• 6:30
  But
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  Right.
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  But you were traveling as they were on the road trip
• 6:33
  as well.
• 6:33
  Absolutely.
• 6:34
  Yeah.
• 6:35
  So this new life of, being on a perpetual book tour and going from hotel room to hotel room is
• 6:41
  very familiar to you.
• 6:44
  Oh, yeah.
• 6:44
  And it's much easier because, I work days now.
• 6:48
  You know?
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  Like, I'm not, you know, when you cover sports, you're working when everyone else is off, you
• 6:53
  know?
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  And and it's just there's nothing less healthy than covering a night game in Kansas City,
• 7:00
  checking into and and I'm not picking on Kansas City.
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  I love Kansas City.
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  But, you know, checking into the Kansas City Airport Marriott at 1AM and getting the 4AM
• 7:09
  wake up call because you have to catch your flight to Dallas.
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  Above of that is not healthy.
• 7:14
  Not not one bit.
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  And you're not flying private in the team chat.
• 7:19
  No.
• 7:20
  I think there's there's so much insight into that whole world.
• 7:26
  And as someone who's very new to broadcasting and being invited into a a few of these press
• 7:32
  conferences and the well, not covering the Yankees.
• 7:35
  Right?
• 7:35
  I got to cover a PGA Tour of Champions event.
• 7:37
  I had the pleasure of, you know, interviewing Cernick Faldo, and Chris Carter and Ronda
• 7:42
  Barber were there for a little celebrity thing they were doing.
• 7:45
  But the stress of just being in this room because I have no relationship with them and
• 7:50
  all of a sudden, I'm trying to come up with questions on the fly because I didn't even know
• 7:53
  I was gonna be there.
• 7:55
  That's it's stressful.
• 7:56
  And on top of the travel that you're doing and, you know, if the team's not doing well, you're
• 8:01
  gonna have guys that are a little bit salty and and probably don't wanna talk to you, but you
• 8:06
  still have a duty as your reporter, and you have to do your job.
• 8:11
  Talk about that a little bit and maybe one specific moment in your career that you can
• 8:16
  kinda hunt, you know, dig into a little bit that was, you know, you you knew the guy wasn't
• 8:22
  gonna wanna talk to you about it, but you gotta get the story anyway.
• 8:26
  And just, yeah, I mean, kind of an overview of that and then maybe one example that you may
• 8:30
  have.
• 8:32
  Yeah.
• 8:32
  It's a it's a really interesting question, Bob.
• 8:34
  I think no one else has asked me that in this on my marathon tour.
• 8:38
  And you're a 100% right.
• 8:40
  It is was my job to report the news and and and to provide honest analysis.
• 8:46
  And and I will say a majority of the people in the I I in baseball, I think in the sports
• 8:53
  world, get it.
• 8:54
  They get what your job is.
• 8:56
  And with your specific question, it's interesting.
• 8:59
  Like, I remember, there's a player on the Mets, Ike Davis, and he, was really struggling.
• 9:07
  He had he had some some real high moments, but all then got injured and was never the same.
• 9:12
  And it got reached the point where the Mets had to send him to the minor leagues even though
• 9:17
  he's a pretty established major league player.
• 9:20
  And I remember writing the column.
• 9:22
  Like, yeah.
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  It's time to send them down to the minor leagues.
• 9:24
  And I remember I I think I I think I might have either he didn't talk.
• 9:28
  I can't remember the specifics, but I and we're calling Ike's agent.
• 9:31
  Like, hey.
• 9:32
  Just a heads up to you and Ike.
• 9:33
  Like, I have to write this column.
• 9:35
  And I have a good relationship with Ike's agent, Lou John Niro, and he said, yep.
• 9:39
  I get it.
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  It's okay.
• 9:41
  You know, but thank you for the heads up.
• 9:42
  So that was the way in my opinion, the best way to do that.
• 9:48
  And I wanna quote a former New York Post colleague of mine, Andrew Marshan, who now
• 9:53
  writes to The Athletic.
• 9:54
  He says, you wanna have the argument with someone before you publish, not after you
• 10:00
  publish.
• 10:01
  And that was just such great advice, great and a great way of putting it.
• 10:05
  Because if you can send that column or, you know, record your hot take or what have you,
• 10:13
  having already had the discussion with the subject of your commentary, then you're gonna
• 10:18
  sleep better.
• 10:20
  Well and you're not doing it to be a jerk, but the story is the story.
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  If you have a top guy out there who's not performing and that time has come, it's your
• 10:30
  job, and you have to do it to put that story out there.
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  Otherwise, your readers aren't going to trust you.
• 10:36
  Mhmm.
• 10:37
  Right?
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  And nobody's gonna read the stuff that you're putting out there.
• 10:40
  I agree with you wholeheartedly that you would rather have that conversation with them and go,
• 10:45
  look.
• 10:45
  I have to write what I have to, but forewarning, this is coming out and you're
• 10:50
  gonna have an opportunity to maybe put eyes on it.
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  You're not gonna be able to necessarily change anything about it, but at least you know what
• 10:56
  it's coming out and you're not getting it in the scrum the next day.
• 10:59
  And somebody's going, hey.
• 11:00
  Ken wrote about, you know, this about you.
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  You don't want those relationships, and especially for someone like you that, you know,
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  you'd had achieved your dream.
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  You've gotten there.
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  You're not trying to get knocked off that pedestal, for one reason or the other, whether
• 11:13
  it's not doing your job or it's having a guy, you know, get so mad at you, you don't know who
• 11:18
  he knows either.
• 11:19
  Right.
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  And being able to say, hey.
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  You know what?
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  This guy's done in this town, especially with a city like New York.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:27
  That's exactly right.
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  Look.
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  I did have incidents early in my career where I didn't follow that wisdom.
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  Like, I didn't have the argument before, and it cost me.
• 11:36
  You know?
• 11:36
  It wasn't fatal, but it created damage that I had to repair.
• 11:43
  It's it's such a crazy world in sports media, and I think it's changed so much from when you
• 11:49
  started in the late nineties to now culture has changed outrageous such a, you know, a a
• 11:56
  commodity now almost.
• 11:57
  Right?
• 11:58
  Most of the sports shows that we see.
• 12:00
  What have you seen on your end?
• 12:02
  And are people is there is there less class maybe from the writers and reporters now than
• 12:09
  maybe there used to be and and that code isn't followed like it was, you know, when you
• 12:15
  started your career?
• 12:16
  I'm sorry, Bubba.
• 12:17
  Less class, did you say?
• 12:19
  And maybe class is the wrong word, but a little less, you know, adherence, I guess, to the
• 12:25
  code.
• 12:26
  Right?
• 12:27
  Oh, yeah.
• 12:28
  So, Bob, if you gave me the time, I could give you a thousand reasons why I quit my career.
• 12:33
  And I would say in the top 10 was what you're talking about.
• 12:38
  And yeah.
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  Because I do think there's been that what's the word?
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  It you know?
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  Of course, I'm blanking out a lot.
• 12:46
  But, yeah, what you said, you know, the idea that, like, yeah, there used to be this mutual
• 12:50
  respect and understanding, and I think a lot of that, unfortunately, has been torn away.
• 12:56
  And, you know, again, I think that reflects greater trends in our country, in our world.
• 13:01
  But I think also, specifically with sports and sports media, there has been the rise of the
• 13:06
  hot take.
• 13:07
  You know, like someone, whether it's on ESPN or whatever streaming service, you know, just
• 13:13
  spouting off on something where they haven't had the argument beforehand, where they haven't
• 13:19
  necessarily done their homework, and they're just looking to get attention.
• 13:23
  And, look, that's been a very successful way to to establish yourself in sports media.
• 13:28
  And to be frank, it sickens me.
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  Like, it it's just the opposite of of how I was raised.
• 13:33
  You know, I'm I would like in my later years, like, I would write a column, you know, I post
• 13:37
  it on Twitter, and I made the mistake of reading the comments.
• 13:41
  And, you know, like, someone would say, like, you know, that yeah.
• 13:44
  I you know, I you're wrong about this, and I will write back, like, that's not what I'm
• 13:49
  saying.
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  I'm saying this.
• 13:51
  And the person will say, well, that's not much of a hot take.
• 13:53
  And I would say, I'm not trying to do a hot take.
• 13:55
  I'm writing a column.
• 13:57
  So that that sequence was, as I said, out of a thousand, like, probably number seven.
• 14:03
  So yeah.
• 14:05
  You're right.
• 14:07
  And it's just it's changed so much.
• 14:10
  And I grew up I'm from Chicago, so we've had some of the the best reporters and and some
• 14:15
  really good times and some really bad times.
• 14:17
  And now it just seems like in our world that everyone wants to kick you when you're down,
• 14:24
  and they wanna tear you down when you're on top.
• 14:26
  And that's become very successful for some I would I would even call them some of your
• 14:31
  contemporaries, right, that are making significant livings off of the hot take and
• 14:36
  having that out there.
• 14:38
  And I think that real sports journalism has been, to the detriment for it.
• 14:44
  I agree a 100%, and that is, again, one of the top reasons why I'm no longer doing it.
• 14:50
  I I thought that my skill set had been the value had gone down.
• 14:56
  And and I wanna stress, like, I was writing for the New York Post.
• 14:59
  They valued my skill set, and they would have kept me on board, I think, for a while longer.
• 15:05
  But I just felt like in the greater ecosystem that was sports media, my skill set was was not
• 15:13
  being valued the same way.
• 15:15
  Yeah.
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  And I think it's so unfortunate because you don't get you don't get to the heart of the
• 15:21
  story with a hot take and putting someone on the defensive and being able to to do that.
• 15:28
  And what I appreciate about humans is that we are layered.
• 15:32
  We we do have so much going on, and I think that's, you know, part of what why I have such
• 15:37
  a passion for podcasting now.
• 15:38
  I don't have a communications or broadcasting background at all.
• 15:41
  I was welding in a factory a few years ago, Ken.
• 15:44
  But I was very passionate about just human beings, getting to know people.
• 15:48
  And I felt like that's what sports journalism, especially, we wanted to know the man or the
• 15:53
  woman behind the player that we saw it on the court.
• 15:56
  And I just don't feel like that happens enough these days.
• 16:01
  Now a lot of players have taken it upon themselves to become their very own, you know,
• 16:06
  starting their own podcast and letting you behind the curtain themselves.
• 16:10
  And a huge kudos to them not letting someone else, you know, dictate the narrative as it
• 16:15
  were.
• 16:16
  I agree with you, and it's a natural outgrowth of the way the the media landscape has evolved.
• 16:23
  Right?
• 16:23
  Like, used to deal adage used to be don't don't challenge people who buy ink by the ton, you
• 16:31
  know, and, of course, that's a extremely dated aphorism, you know, because even, like, even
• 16:37
  the New York Post, which is is doing very well as an as a legacy medium entity, is doing that
• 16:42
  because it has learned how to adapt to the digital media world.
• 16:46
  And, the ink isn't quite as important as it as it used to be.
• 16:52
  So, and I forgot where I was going this.
• 16:54
  What was the question again?
• 16:57
  It doesn't matter.
• 16:58
  Let's talk about the book, Ken, because that used a little bit of ink.
• 17:02
  You've been out shopping it around.
• 17:04
  You you were out in Cooperstown very recently getting to rub elbows and and talk with a lot
• 17:10
  of guys that I'm sure, you know, you you spent the better part of the last, you know, almost
• 17:15
  thirty years building relationships with and getting to reconnect with some of these.
• 17:20
  I mean, that had to be a thrill for you and especially, I mean, Reggie's gotta be at the
• 17:24
  top of that list.
• 17:25
  Mister October, and I know that he was even gracious enough to to write a little excerpt in
• 17:30
  your book.
• 17:30
  So what is what was really the the impetus for you to write the book?
• 17:38
  I know you'd kinda left, and, obviously, a guy that's lived a a life that you have probably
• 17:43
  has several books inside of him yet and all the stories you could share.
• 17:47
  But what was it about, you know, this particular topic and and how this book came
• 17:53
  about that had to be done.
• 17:56
  Yeah.
• 17:56
  So, Bobby, just for your viewers and listeners, might be elevator pitch for this book, 101
• 18:00
  lessons for the dugout.
• 18:01
  It is written for young adults, young players, and their parents, grandparents, and coaches
• 18:06
  about the life lessons you can learn from baseball and softballs.
• 18:10
  101 bite sized pages, you know, bite sized chapters.
• 18:14
  Excuse me.
• 18:15
  One to two pages a piece.
• 18:16
  And I co wrote it with a pediatrician and a parenting expert named Harley Rothbard, and
• 18:22
  then there's a forward by a legendary New York man, David Wright.
• 18:25
  And what appealed to me about this, it was so different than anything else I had done in my
• 18:31
  career.
• 18:32
  Because, again, I if I was gonna have to write one more column on what's wrong with the
• 18:36
  Yankees, they've lost five of seven.
• 18:39
  You know?
• 18:39
  Like, I was gonna stick a paper clip in my eyeball or something.
• 18:43
  You know?
• 18:43
  Like, I was just I couldn't do that anymore.
• 18:46
  And along comes this opportunity because Harley and I have the same literary agent, Lisa
• 18:51
  Leshni.
• 18:51
  She paired us up, and Harley came up with this idea.
• 18:55
  Harley, as I said, pediatrician, she really just locked into how kids think.
• 19:00
  And Harley also loves baseball and softball.
• 19:03
  So he used baseball and softball as a tool to help his patients navigate life.
• 19:08
  You know, like, remember when this happened in the game, you can also use that in the rest of
• 19:12
  your life.
• 19:12
  So this book is his baby, and then I was invited and honored and excited to be his
• 19:18
  collaborator because I could infuse the book with my knowledge of of baseball at the highest
• 19:24
  level, whereas he his knowledge is more grassroots.
• 19:27
  So we were just a really nice blend and a nice pairing, and it's that's part of me I've been
• 19:34
  so happy promoting this is because I'm, like, I'm tired of knocking elbows with people.
• 19:39
  I'm tired of controversy.
• 19:41
  You know?
• 19:41
  I I I enjoyed it while it lasted, and and it was a a good run that I'm proud of.
• 19:46
  But I'm really proud now to hopefully introduce a little more positivity into the world.
• 19:53
  I absolutely love that.
• 19:55
  So many of the lessons that I've learned in my life came from sports.
• 19:58
  I you know, I was a three, four sport athlete through high school.
• 20:02
  Didn't have the opportunity to play much after that.
• 20:05
  I was never good enough either, Ken, even though I I might have dreamed of playing one
• 20:10
  day.
• 20:11
  But the lessons that I took away from it and the camaraderie and and just everything about
• 20:16
  sports, there's so much to be gained from that.
• 20:18
  And I think even though, you know, even if your child isn't going to be that star athlete, that
• 20:23
  it's good for them to play these sports.
• 20:25
  So I I love that you guys came together on the book to to put that in print fashion, and,
• 20:30
  hopefully, it inspires, you know, parents to put their kids in when maybe, you know, it's
• 20:36
  obvious that, you know, Timmy isn't gonna be a star pitcher.
• 20:39
  Right?
• 20:40
  He's probably not making it till the MLB in especially in young youth sports, amateur
• 20:45
  sports, that's not the important part.
• 20:48
  Right?
• 20:48
  Yes.
• 20:49
  Some of these athletes will go on to have careers, maybe get to play at the collegiate
• 20:53
  level, and then a very small percentage of them may get to go and play pro.
• 20:58
  But it's about the lessons that you're learning about yourself and about life that can serve
• 21:04
  you for the rest of your time here on this earth.
• 21:07
  You nailed it, Bubba.
• 21:08
  This is exactly what this book is about because, you know, the in this world, there is
• 21:13
  so much focus on outcomes.
• 21:16
  Right?
• 21:17
  I'm okay.
• 21:17
  What are we getting out of this?
• 21:19
  You know?
• 21:19
  Is little Timmy gonna be able to pitch for division three college?
• 21:23
  You know?
• 21:24
  And what we're urging is there are other outcomes, you know, like, they're they're
• 21:29
  beyond whether Timmy makes it the college ball.
• 21:32
  You know, is Timmy becoming a better person from the time he is spending playing this game?
• 21:37
  Is he making friends?
• 21:38
  You know, is he learning lessons?
• 21:40
  And that's what we're trying to inject into this conversation.
• 21:44
  And most of those lessons don't come from winning.
• 21:47
  Right?
• 21:47
  They they come from the the l's that you take, the benching that happens, the, you know, the
• 21:53
  moments where you may have failed, but knowing that you're going to get another opportunity in
• 21:59
  that.
• 21:59
  There are so many.
• 22:00
  I mean, you probably could have wrote the book a thousand and one lessons from the dugout.
• 22:04
  That'd be a long book, by the
• 22:06
  much longer book.
• 22:08
  I've got war and peace.
• 22:09
  I
• 22:12
  think it's incredible, the the idea, you know, that you've had and bringing it to fruition.
• 22:17
  Talk a little bit about that, you know, having a cowriter and and kinda working on this
• 22:23
  together.
• 22:24
  I've written, what, words in the form of a book.
• 22:28
  Think it's how my friends took it.
• 22:30
  It it hasn't been published or anything to that level, but I can speak to, you know, what it's
• 22:35
  like to have to sit down in front of a computer and do that myself.
• 22:38
  What's it like to kinda write with someone else and to take, as you put it, kinda their baby
• 22:43
  and their idea and to be the contributor to that?
• 22:47
  Yeah.
• 22:47
  So that and I am I'm I'm always a cards on the table person, Bubba.
• 22:51
  So that's why I wanna make clear to people.
• 22:52
  It's not like Harley and I were sitting in a room, like, if you're a Seinfeld fan, like,
• 22:57
  when George and Jerry wrote the sitcom, and they're like, how should we start this?
• 23:00
  You know?
• 23:00
  And and there's all those you know, they take a nap.
• 23:03
  You know?
• 23:03
  Like, there was nothing like that.
• 23:05
  Know, Harley had a manuscript written, and then I came in and kinda, you know, just went
• 23:11
  performed surgery on it.
• 23:12
  You know?
• 23:12
  And then he he came back with his notes, and we went back and forth.
• 23:16
  Believe it or not, but but Harley and I have never met.
• 23:18
  I live in New York City.
• 23:20
  Harley lives in Denver.
• 23:21
  So we've just got connected by our agent, Lisa, and then it's been Zooming and FaceTime and
• 23:26
  texting and emails and phone calls.
• 23:28
  So maybe someday we'll meet.
• 23:30
  But, it was just it was very, fruitful and healthy because I think of the respect we had
• 23:36
  for each other, and I mean this sincerely.
• 23:38
  Like, I just had such respect that he had come up with this idea in the first place and with
• 23:43
  such really, like, beautiful ideas.
• 23:46
  And I'll just to give you one example, like chapter 51, the stretch at first.
• 23:53
  And this is act this is kinda like the the flux capacitor moment of the book if you're back to
• 23:58
  the future fan, hopefully.
• 23:59
  Oh, of course.
• 24:00
  Yes.
• 24:01
  So, like, you know, first baseman, you know, has to stretch, right, to help out the
• 24:06
  infielders.
• 24:06
  And sometimes the infielders throw so bad that you have to leave the bag altogether, just
• 24:11
  corral the ball to prevent further damage.
• 24:14
  So Harley had a a patient who was a first baseman, also hanging out with a bad crowd of
• 24:20
  friends.
• 24:21
  And, you know, his parents clued him in.
• 24:24
  And so he said to the the young man, you know, you you you know what it's like to play first
• 24:30
  base, and it seems to me you're stretching awfully a lot, you know, to to meet these
• 24:35
  people where they are.
• 24:37
  This crowd, you're stretching so far that you're coming off the bag altogether, and that
• 24:41
  registered with the young man.
• 24:43
  Like, oh, yeah.
• 24:44
  Okay.
• 24:44
  Now I get it.
• 24:45
  Like, yeah, I probably shouldn't be hanging out with this crowd.
• 24:47
  So just the creativity and the connectivity it takes to come up with that idea and and a 100
• 24:53
  others, you know, like, I was really into it.
• 24:56
  And then I think Harley respected my just knowledge of the game.
• 24:59
  I I you know, look, covered I the game at the highest level that does bring with it some
• 25:04
  distinct knowledge.
• 25:05
  So there were some notes I had on some of the stuff he had written about the game itself.
• 25:09
  So we blended those two perspectives.
• 25:11
  And, I'm I'm very proud with how it turned out.
• 25:15
  Just incredible.
• 25:16
  And humans have been learning through allegory and analogy for a time memoriam, right, since
• 25:22
  we have invented language.
• 25:24
  I think that through stories and through finding things that relate, especially to young
• 25:30
  children, you have to find that way to relate.
• 25:33
  You can't have those adults, so you have to find that something.
• 25:35
  And who doesn't love baseball?
• 25:38
  Right?
• 25:38
  I I think it's one of the most accessible sports for young people to get into.
• 25:42
  You don't have to be tall.
• 25:44
  You don't have to, you know, like a basketball or or super athletic.
• 25:47
  Everyone can learn how to hit a ball off a tee.
• 25:50
  And I think that's why it's great that you guys came together on this book.
• 25:54
  You got to talk about a sport that you've obviously been in love with your whole life,
• 25:57
  but like you said, got to cover at the highest level with some of the greatest players to ever
• 26:02
  play the game.
• 26:04
  Give me a quick one bit before I let you go.
• 26:07
  I'd be remiss.
• 26:08
  I mean, who was your of those World Series dominating Yankees teams, who was your favorite
• 26:14
  one to to get that chance to speak with on a regular basis?
• 26:19
  I would have to say from the dynasty years, like '96 to o one, I would say Jorge Posada
• 26:26
  because he was just so authentic.
• 26:28
  And Jorge did not have a fake bone in his body.
• 26:31
  You know, if he was pissed at you, he'd let you know.
• 26:34
  You know?
• 26:35
  If he had but also understood the the obligation he had.
• 26:39
  And I I think that's why, yeah, beyond his his, production, which was excellent, why Yankee
• 26:45
  fans loved him so much, like, authenticity and the fire he showed on the field and, in the in
• 26:52
  the clubhouse as well.
• 26:54
  Just always honest.
• 26:55
  And yeah.
• 26:56
  So he is is would have to be my favorite.
• 26:59
  Yeah.
• 26:59
  Very New York guy.
• 27:01
  Yeah.
• 27:02
  Yeah, man.
• 27:03
  We are born in Puerto Rico, but certainly, of New York.
• 27:08
  Awesome, Ken.
• 27:09
  Well, I I know you got a jet.
• 27:11
  You got books to sell and planes to catch.
• 27:13
  It's been an absolute pleasure getting to spend some time with you.
• 27:16
  I hope we have a chance to, bring you back maybe on some more of our baseball coverage in
• 27:20
  the future once you slow slow down a little bit.
• 27:23
  Hope to catch you out there on the road, maybe at one of your book signings.
• 27:26
  I'm looking forward to not just reading the book myself, but giving it to my young children
• 27:31
  and letting them gain some lessons from you and Harley as well.
• 27:35
  Everyone can go check out the book, 101 lessons from the dugout available on Amazon, and we're
• 27:42
  gonna share a link in the show notes as well.
• 27:43
  You guys can go buy it directly from them.
• 27:46
  Make sure to follow Ken, all the social media, Ken Davidoff.
• 27:50
  Davidoff is d a v I d o f f.
• 27:53
  And, yeah, I'd really just I'm so grateful to you.
• 27:57
  You didn't have to come and spend some time with me today.
• 27:59
  I hope that we help you sell a couple of books from the end of this, but really grateful to
• 28:04
  spend some time with you talking baseball, Ken.
• 28:07
  Go ahead, Bubba.
• 28:08
  Great getting to know you.
• 28:09
  Fold there's cars on the table.
• 28:10
  As I said, I had no idea what this meeting was going to be, but I was like, yeah.
• 28:14
  What the heck?
• 28:14
  As you said, put yourself out there.
• 28:16
  Right?
• 28:16
  Go go get it.
• 28:17
  So thank you for your time and pleasure getting to talk to you here.
• 28:21
  You as well.
• 28:21
  Everybody, make sure you follow along on the show, and go give Ken a follow as well.
• 28:26
  We'll see you next time.