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Uh-Oh - OCD Happened Again (OCD)(Episode 10) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. Marc & Stacee: Hi y'all, I'm Stacey and along with my husband, Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. Of course, as you all know, this is the podcast that talks all things OCD and ERP, and we want to welcome you to episode number 10. Welcome. We are talking tonight about life and OCD and how it continues to demand our time and our energy in order to stay on top of things and what it takes to Opening: and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. bring back ERP into your life and make sure that you're staying on top of it and recognizing and realizing that once again, as I've mentioned before, I'm always gonna have OCD. It'll always be a part of my life and therefore it'll always be a part of my family's life and it'll always be a part of our marriage. But I think that with the ERP has come so much healing and so much growth that we're in such a better place. But to also recognize that just like with any muscle, if you stop working it out and you start to feel good and you get a little relaxed and then you don't work out that muscle, it takes a moment to get it back. And you have to kind of... Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: regroup and decide to dive headfirst back into the work. Which recently happened to us. Yes. You know, so let's maybe go back to, you know, one of the things that you used to do. Sure. You know, as we started up ERP or even prior to. Sure. Starting that journey before we knew it was OCD. Right. Well, there were so many things that I would do. And I would always just think that was just a part of who I was. It was my personality. was little quirks, little qualities that I had. And I didn't think too much of it. yet I knew that it was weighing heavily on me and it was causing me some negativity in my life that I didn't want there anymore. But yeah, we should dial back to that time because it is again, another layer of the onion. So when people talk about like the PR OCD, it's more like washing the hands and keeping things organized and whatnot. And I will say our house is fairly organized. Even our therapist has said, no, your house is very organized when Stacey's had to do video chats with her in therapy sessions and our pantry had to be just right, know, different aspects in that world. ⁓ Even like my mom would say, you know, your house is beautiful. It's all put together and it's organized. then when... I took a lot of pride in that. I still do because I enjoy having a well put together home that's clean, that's organized. I think that's something that a lot of people strive for. ⁓ But again... the tendency to clean and to organize is that next layer that we had to kind of peel off and talk about. know, and so when the first time I approached my mom and told her that you had OCD, you know, she said, well, that kind of makes sense, you know, because of that one aspect of the OCD that you were were tackling, which there are so many different layers of your OCD. when people have OCD of different podcasts that I've listened to, people sharing their stories, it's not just one thing. It's two, three, four, five, six different things that your OCD attaches onto. And one part of yours was the cleaning of our house and making sure we want live minimalist. I think more so the organizing became... the issue and the compulsion versus the cleaning itself. If I were to go back and look to see what I was feeling in that moment, rather than sitting in that anxiety or that discomfort, where I needed to put my energy was the organizing. But Mark's right, there's so many definitions that we can look to that it's this type of OCD or that type of OCD. Mine doesn't work like that. ⁓ I have some tendencies in a lot of different areas, right tendencies tend to be one of them. ⁓ And as I've talked about on this podcast in earlier episodes, I've got some other ways in which OCD shows up in my life. I just think that it's okay for other people out there that might have OCD or or think that they might have OCD to realize that it's not just neat and tidy in a little box that we can put ourselves in, no pun intended on the neat and tidy, but it's something that is like an onion that gets peeled off layer by layer to make sure that you're addressing each aspect that comes into your life and comes into play. And with ERP, when we went through and you did your assessment, we started tackling one of the more major, well, we started more the minor so that you felt some success. Yeah. And then we tackled some of the bigger pieces that were impacting your life and our life, the family's life and whatnot. And this became one of those aspects that you had to tackle. Yes. And so again, kind of touching a little bit on some previous topics that we've covered already in earlier episodes. of the podcast, specifically Moving Targets and Intention. Those were two that came up a lot and keep coming up a lot. when I tackled the compulsion that I had to organize, the idea of intention came up a lot in that one. And I know in our previous podcast, I've touched on that. But that's something that I still have to address with myself ⁓ more frequently than I'd like to. But again, We are still living this journey. We're still doing it. And so I have to decide what is my intention behind wanting to organize that closet, that drawer. The pantry. The pantry. The kitchen. Did I just organize it yesterday? Is there a need to do it again? One of the strategies that ended up coming up with my therapist was I had to set a timeframe. what would be acceptable, what would be kind of a typical normal. You could clean out your pantry every six weeks, organize it every six weeks. That's that's kind of what most people do. I was doing it. But weekly, ⁓ just or I would go organizing ⁓ tasks to do on a daily weekly basis. Yeah, well, like I would, you know, go sailing and then come back home and then everything our kitchen is out on our counters. Yeah. And because you're reorganizing. couple cabinets or you're redoing the pantry or you're like, and then all of a sudden, you know, your visual spatial is not where you like it to be. Well, this all needs to go back. And I'm the one that ended up having to put it back because when you would try to do it, it wasn't a just right. that is so the compulsion to organize came from something else in my life that maybe was left not right in my estimation. For example, I've talked about text messages, conversations, ⁓ interactions with other people. If I didn't feel like I left them just right, that would cause so much anxiety that the OCD would spike. And then I had a compulsion to want to organize, which would then bleed into, as you can hear from Mark, bleed into his life. Because I'm the one that would always have to help put it back or... Or just come in and everything is out again after we just put it all away. I think that led to... Or how many baskets can you buy to put things in? Yeah. Because maybe the basket wasn't just right. So let's buy another one or this or that. I mean... Yeah. You know, so you go to the container store, you go to Target or you go somewhere in your, we're constantly, getting different type of baskets to make sure that they would. That they felt just right. Felt just right with housing the stuff that, you know, and to be honest, you know, our pantry could be, you know, I use that as an example, because that's the one thing for me that would really frustrate me, you know, is the pantry, because that's the one thing that everybody goes into on a daily basis. things would be moved and you're going, oh, I'm going to go get the bread and the bread's not even on the same shelf anymore or the same place. It's, you know, been moved, you know, five different places. Then I was always having to run back and say, hey, where did you put the bread or where did you put the coffee or where did you put the cereal? mean. And then at the time. I made it a little game like Let's Play Hot and Cold thinking it was a cute little fun game. Seeing it from the lens of OCD now, too, I realized And when she means hot and cold, it's like when I was having to go and look for stuff, let's play hot and She might be sitting on the couch going, let's play hot and cold. And I'm looking for the knives. You know, it's like I'm looking for the can opener or something like that. Let's play hot and cold. And it's like, I don't want to play hot and cold because it was absolutely fine where it was at. And it was really, it's really unfair. It was, and seeing it from the lens that I do now, I recognize how unfair that was to put you in that position a lot of the time. And I wasn't thinking about it then because I was doing it and using it to assuage my own anxiety and my own discomfort that I wasn't willing to sit in, which then led to the next compulsion. ⁓ this one's fun. Which ⁓ is something I'm not super proud of either anymore. And again, that idea of intention, y'all, it's so important when we're talking about when we who have OCD feel the need to engage in compulsions the most, it's the intention, you have to dial it back and say, what is my intention? Is my intention really because something needs to be organized? Is it really my intention because I want to be friendly in my text message so I can put that extra emoji in there is my intention just because I've used something and don't want don't need to have it anymore. Or once you get really good at it, identifying ⁓ no, my intention is because I'm feeling anxious, something is happening in my life that's making me feel uncomfortable. I'm uncertain. And this is my way of capturing that certainty back. And those are the times that you have to, for yourself and for your family, be able to recognize and shut down as quickly and as often as you can. And those intentions that she has, I rarely could see what the intention was behind her doing the different tasks because I didn't know how she was feeling. didn't see her. I mean, every now and then I could see her anxiety with your body. You know, you might bounce your leg more frequently or something like that. Even our therapist picks up on different body movements from you. And she did last week. know, we were talking, whatever you're talking about, your leg got really tense. And, you know, and but those intentions like the spouse, it's very frustrating. Yeah. Because you don't know why they are feeling like they need to do it or what the intention behind. the cleaning or the needing to make sure things are organized or, you know, there's so many different things that could fall behind that OCD. What is the true intention behind it? And you can now vocalize that to me. Yes. And I realize now that I started saying that this was my intention to organize them became something else. And what that something else was, that Mark was referring to is so much fun earlier was the compulsion and the need. And I mean, I mean need like it itched. It was like an itch. I couldn't scratch and I needed to scratch to give away my possessions. any time I felt like possessions, any possession in the house, the household possessions again, not proud of this, y'all. But it was if I felt like I didn't leave something just right, if I felt like I had made a mistake, if I felt like there was some error that overwhelmed me too much to where I was then engaging in mental compulsions and spinning and spiraling, then I would need to redirect my energy somewhere. ⁓ I'll just go through the house and choose four or five things that we don't need anymore. And I'd always leave it in a nice little bag out in the front of our front porch. So Mark would get home and he would see that bag there and know that I've been through the house. And that was happening on a pre- pretty regular basis for a while. Well, you have Fridays off. So it was happening every Friday. I would come home on a Friday. There was always a bag sitting out or two or three. And that was my cue to put it in the back of the truck and then bring it to work on Monday and give it away to my coworker that has a yearly garage sale. was our routine. But for me, what was frustrating is I would take it open the bag and see what she was giving away. And I'd be like, Why are you giving this away? We just bought this. Yeah. Or, you know, just because you don't feel like it fit in our house at that moment. And again, it became a ⁓ fight with myself to figure out the intention behind giving something away. I feel like I have a better and a stronger grip on it now. The cleaning, the organizing and the purging. is done with much more intention now and done only when it really needs to be done versus having it being an every moment of every day part of my life And I see that when I when I come home on fridays or you know, you work fridays now too But even like on the weekends or i'll come home from sailing, you know, ⁓ yeah The house is a total mess now every day. Isn't it? Yeah, i'm just kidding. Y'all haven't quite gone that far. We have that dog of ours that loves to fur baby. Sure helping the situation. know everybody go get a puppy when you have a wife that has OCD. ⁓ an Australian Shepherd puppy by the way. That doesn't settle down or that has hair everywhere. Fun opportunity. Yeah. We blame our daughter for that one. We do. He's very sweet but he's also a handful and that's been good for a lot of things too, in the way that we manage our lifestyle at home now too versus the way it was before. ⁓ Which I will say, now that you've been through the ERP and everything, you were willing to get another dog. Whereas before, dogs were really off limits. we got together, I came into the relationship with a dog. We shared custody with that dog with your parents because your parents lived up in North where it was cool and we had them during the winter time. But it is very different now than back then. I feel so much different. And I know I've touched on this in different episodes too that it really ERP and intensive therapy and having the opportunity to have the exposures to sit in your own discomfort to not allow yourself to engage in compulsions. It is a literal rewire of your brain. That's how I feel about it personally. That's what it did for me. That's what we're hoping can happen for other people out there. As y'all listen, we're so grateful for the community we're building here ⁓ because it really has been so life changing that we would love to see that for other people. ⁓ Because it really does feel like my brain has been rewired. Now, having said that, it's not perfect. When I find myself losing track a little of my ERP opportunities, the opportunities to expose my, to do the exposures or to ⁓ sit in discomfort, life gets busy, life gets stressful. We kind of stopped putting much, you know, when you stop putting your primary effort in that area, just like any muscle, it gets a little weaker. And so things happen. And I will say, as the spouse of somebody going through ERP, it is exhausting. It is exhausting for the person that is doing the ERP and it's exhausting for the spouse too, if you're truly committed in doing it together. Because just about every opportunity could be an ERP moment. Every opportunity could be an ERP moment. you know, when we go through our therapy, because that is something that has not stopped. No. You know, we've reduced the amount of time, but it is something that we continue to do. Something comes up new to work on, or we kind of backed off there for a little while. And then all of a sudden, okay, nope, we got to go to, you know, your check-ins can only be, you know, every once every Like we talked about last week too. And I think that that's... Again, to just kind of think about a moment from a previous podcast too, that's kind of where the grace comes in, right? When you feel yourself getting back into those moments of, I feel like I want to engage in a compulsion, or maybe you do, you give yourself a little grace, you say, nope, we're not going to do that. We're going to go back to the exposures. We're going to go back to the responses. We're going to go back to the prevention of it all. We're going go back to the idea of sitting in your discomfort and not allowing yourself to have that the need, not allow yourself to engage in the compulsion so that you can bring your anxiety down on your own. So one of the things that you had to do last week, the one thing that was uncomfortable for you ⁓ is, when you've got two teenage kids, you always want to know where they're at, where they're driving, that type of thing. We are one driver, one that's not, you know, so one of the things that she had to do was take Life360 off of her phone. Listen, this was... by far one of the hardest ones I've had to do to date. And the reason why is because I've really, part of the ERP with our son in particular who just had his 18th birthday was the need to have him check in with me, check in, check in, literally within minutes of the last time he might've checked in if he's going out or doing something. And so I got really And that came back. Yeah, so I got really good. giving myself those exposures, the discomfort of it, and then coming back down realizing, ⁓ we're okay. He's okay. And he's gotten to have more of a typical teenage hood ⁓ with this as well. And so, okay, we're in a good place. And then life gets busy. Life gets stressful. Things come up. And all of a sudden, Mark's right, it came back. So then I had a couple of instances where I was having him text me again, frequently upon frequent. But I'm okay. with admitting it and admitting it to people who I know will help me and help me stay accountable. during our therapy session, I turn myself in, so to speak, I say, this is what's happened. So the idea is, okay, you gotta take Life360 off your phone. Now Mark is in the driver's seat of knowing where he is, particularly for our son, because he's the one that's kind of out and about and doing more things. He's the one that can know where he is and all text communication or check-in has to go through Mark. And that was really difficult for me after I had slid backwards a little bit. But I will say, I got back on the horse with those exposures really quickly again. And then it was like, ⁓ okay, nope. I remember now. All right, here we go. And so now even our daughter was out and about with a friend the other day and I did not, and she's only 14. And I did not have the need to check the Life360. or to see where she was, or did I have the need to text her five minutes after the next five minutes to check in, which she noticed. And she said it was probably one of her best days out because of that. Yes. So I really did. I mean, not only did I want to make a change because I was feeling like I didn't want to live like this anymore with the overwhelm of what OCD was causing me, but the idea that I was causing the word harm and I don't like that word because I don't, it's just hard to say it out loud. But to cause harm or challenge for my husband and my children. was one of the biggest motivators that pushed me into the intensive treatment that I did end up getting. And it's been one of the most gratifying gifts that I've gotten out of it. Because hearing Mark talk about the way things have been so challenging for him and the things that have frustrated him. Well, and I'm going to I just want to talk about it too. Like on Saturday, because our son was turned 18 on Friday. Oh, we have to talk about this. We do. Oh, We do. We have to talk. right. Well, see, this is OK. So this is what we're talking about. OCD. It just. It's just there. So because Miles turned, you know, 18. He wanted a tattoo. Yes. You know, so. I took him down to get a tattoo, which was about 35 minutes away from our house. We had a one o'clock appointment and you were out with Abe and out there doing the shopping and stuff. ⁓ you know, so we sat down with the tattoo artists and Miles had to take and figure out what he, he knew what he wanted, but not the style of font. So he had to go through you know, 800 fonts, you know, he had to choose from to get his tattoo done up. So as we're doing that, that took probably, probably an hour and then probably another hour for the actual tattoo to be done and cleaned up and all that type of thing, you know. And I had checked in with Stace, you know, in between there, you know, like, hey, you know, he's excited to get this done, you know. because we made it a surprise for him. I think he kind of knew but didn't know, especially when I was driving him far away. was a fun surprise. And one of the things that Stace and I've talked about with our kids, especially as they're getting older, like with Miles, I'm kind of in that first position and she's in that second position. That's why I ended up taking him and with our daughter, she's in the first position and I'm kind of in the second position. It just makes, you sense with all the girl stuff that goes on and whatnot. you know, with Miles then, so I'm there with him and you know, and as we're going through getting his tattoo and stuff, know, my midlife crisis came out. So because what Mark doesn't want to mention right now is that while our son turned 18 last week, ⁓ Mark is about to have his 48th birthday here in T minus two days. Two days. ⁓ one day, really? One day. And ⁓ But happy birthday, early birthday. Thank you. Yes. So I had my midlife crisis. you know, I did, you know, I got a tattoo too, which Miles thought was absolutely the coolest thing. It was a great experience for you guys to have together. It was a great bonding experience. Absolutely. 100%. You know, I'm 48, I'm be 48 years old, never had one. And you'll hear he's 18 and he has one. You know, you have two of them. Yours are small. is, you know, living uncertain. Yeah, literally. I read it every day. You know, on your wrist and then a little heart on your ankle, nothing big. But mine took a little bit more time, you know, to do. Yes. And because of that, my phone was not with me. Yep. And my phone is always on silent, always on silent. It vibrates and that is it. And Miles was sitting on the couch and the phone was next to him and he didn't realize it because he was. Yes. And about the time that I knew he had a one o'clock appointment and then I could see on our picture roll that he was done about 3 30. But I'm taking a picture of it to show him because I'm looking at my watch and I'm it was on his back. Well but now it's almost seven. But where are you. And I haven't heard from you. And she has no three sixty. I have no three sixty. So there might have been a small ish. What would our daughter say? She's a spicy one. I don't know if I want to hear what she would have to say, but it was a panic attack. Now, I had to get through it myself, which I did for the most part. Although she got involved, too, because I was really getting escalated. And this is one of the things that I've worked hard not to do. is get myself to that panic or to that compulsion where I'm calling and messaging, you know, every 30 seconds or whatever it might be. ⁓ Why did you go into a panic attack though? Because I didn't know where you guys were. And you thought? That something happened to you. Yeah. Which was one of your OCD traits, which is the fear of death. Yep. ⁓ yeah. It's all, it's all one big circle. Yeah. It's all one big circle. So yes, I had a panic attack. Again, not proud of it. Again, I wish it hadn't have happened, but it did. So again, I have to give myself some grace to realize that I'm not perfect and I still live with OCD and that this is going to happen from time to time, much less frequently now. But as we are being super authentic in this real time podcast that we're doing, because we are still working towards healing and growth, this is, I'm glad we're talking about it. Now it is going to be, it's going to be really fun that our therapist also listens to our podcast and she'll be hearing all this new stuff that we'll be working on, I'm sure. Next week. Next week. But I'm okay. I'm a piece of that. But I will say part of that exposure that I have learned, that we've learned is like when you call me during the day, I mean, you know where I'm at. I'm at work. Yeah. That's pretty easy. Whether I'm at my work a place or at a meeting or whatever, you know I'm at work from eight o'clock to... Exactly. But in this case... that you would call me and I could ignore your calls. Yep. And you could just think, ⁓ I'm in a meeting, I'm in a meeting. Right. So that's some of those exposures that we have put into place that I do do. Yeah. On a regular basis. And those did help. It's not that I... I mean, there are many times that I could actually absolutely answer her phone call, but I don't. And if it was an emergency, she would text me, hey, It's an emergency. Something's happened to the kids. Right. So. And I think that's an important part too, is that I became very intentional there as well, especially for a while when we were really very immersed in the ERP. I would think to myself, okay, is this something that I need to talk to Mark about right now? What is the purpose of the call? Why am I doing this? Is this an everyday like, need to know what we're doing tonight because someone wants to see us or is it just I need his reassurance or I need to check in, like, what is the intention? So those got better. But it is the times when, A, I didn't have 360, but even if I had had it, that I don't hear from you guys, you're not answering your phone, you're in a different place that's not necessarily the place where we are a lot. It's starting to get dark. Dark is another thing, another one for me that doesn't help. And those are the factors that kind of come together and light the fire of this panic that takes over. Yeah. Because even if I'm out sailing, you know I'm out on the water and I might not be able to take a phone call. I have, but I where you are because you're there. Like you're either at work, you're at home or you're out sailing. This was a completely different experience in a different area that you guys had never been to before. Like those are the things. It was was was an uncertainty of the new. It was it and it was an unintentional. ERP moment that we did. Now did she fail? Also, yes. But I won't fail. Well, I will cross my fingers and say with every good intention that I have, I don't want to keep failing at that. So for me, now I've got to start as a spouse that wants to support and encourage and help build that muscle, you know, and more than just dropping her off at the gym and saying, go work out type of thing. You know, I have to now be intentional, like, okay, what's another exposure opportunity that I could put into place for her to practice that? that is very difficult to do. know, and I have ideas that I could do and... ⁓ please, let's ⁓ share with the We're not going to share with the class because then you'll know what it is and then it won't be effective. OK, all right. But those are things that I'm thinking about, you know, and working along with the therapist on different ways of exposure and stuff. But I know that was a triggering moment. And can I reproduce that again? Probably to give you that exposure because it was something new that we found out that, ⁓ us not answering our phones and not a place that you really would know where we would be at and closer to dark and longer than when we were anticipating being. I can probably recreate that. For sure. But will you let me know before you do? Yeah, absolutely. You know. so you can be ready to go for it. There are absolutely ways that it can happen, but unfortunately, it has to be unexpected. Yeah, absolutely. It can't happen next week. can't happen a month from now, type of thing. And I need to remember to use my tools and to recognize that my thoughts are just my thoughts and they don't have to pursue anything more than that and mean anything more than that. Let the anxiety take over. Let it overwhelm. Let the panic happen. I've had to do that, too. I've had to let the panic get so far. That then and then just kind of come back naturally without any reassurance from Mark, without any getting involved, you know, anybody else getting involved in it without calling any nothing, just on my own, self-regulating, making sure that I can come back down from it and don't die, basically, is what I'm. Yeah. But even even then. after you went through your pan attack when we did actually connect. plan after doing the tattoos was to meet for dinner. ⁓ And we were going to meet at the restaurant together. You were going to drive there, we were going to drive there and meet together. But I knew at that moment that probably was not the best course of action for a safety. No, it wasn't. And that's, you know, my driving is a whole nother layer of that onion that will peel back another time. I would agree that wasn't the moment that I needed to then have ERP driving at night in a place where I wasn't as familiar. I think that would have just put me over the edge to a certain level. Yeah. And you had already come to a really high level within, you know, not knowing where we are. And I know that that was not the time to do more ERP or, you know, to have you stretch your legs of driving somewhere you really don't know near it was dark at that point. So so Miles and I came home and picked you two up and we drove, you know, dinner, which was probably one of the best conversations we've had in the car. Oh, yeah. But even talking to the phone, I'm not hungry anymore. Yeah. You know, after we. was that was just that that pure. Yeah. That's that. It's hard to come down from the panic, the panic attack and then feel like you can just kind of go back with life. Yeah. It takes me a hot second deregulated your body. But I am getting better at reregulating it quicker. And I really want to keep growing. I as much as Mark and I joke around to and we talk about, my gosh, I'm to have to do this or, oh, my gosh, I'm going have to do that. I really do start to embrace. the exposures at this point, because I know what, because even though it can be scary right at first, even though I've done so many of them and I've done this for so long now, I know what's on the other side of that exposure. So I'm like, yeah, okay, let's, yeah, I need, I need to do that again. I'm gonna, I need to do that again, because I need to get where I don't have to do that anymore. I don't want to have those moments anymore. And so, yeah, we're gonna get there. Yeah. But it was important to talk about some more layers of the onion and some more ways that I have found myself engaging in compulsions that have affected my family. And the stuff that's still happening on a regular basis with us. But our life is feeling more normal. If you want, there is no normal out there in the world, but, know, it is feeling more normal. Once we let go of a lot of things in our life, and as you all know, we had a business, we no longer have a business, and so it took us a long time to get back to a new norm in our life and a new normal. And now that we have that, I think what Mark is saying is absolutely right. It is becoming. Not so new anymore. is our normal. Yeah. We're able to focus on things that we have not been able to focus on for a very long time. Yeah. know, prior to even buying the business and everything, you we're back to focusing on some of that stuff. Pre-COVID type of stuff. And ERP was in your OCD was happening then, but just to a different extent. What it was or how to handle it. You know, and I think or a lot of people's stuff, COVID brought on or amplified maybe some of their OCD tendencies or because that was a stressful time in a lot of people's lives. For you, it wasn't because you were at home. You didn't have to please anybody. There was no people pleasing, no interactions. that was very, very ⁓ peaceful time for you. But buying the business is what lit your fire on your OCD. And that's why we kind of got where we are at now because of that piece. we have, I think it's safe to say that we have successfully turned the page. like you've even said before, and I love the way Mark says this, is we've actually closed an entire book and opened an entire new one. And we're writing in a new book now. And that feels really amazing. And I'm really proud of both of us, all of us, our whole family for... for doing that and just excited to be here with all of you listening and. And continue to listen to everything that we are going through, you know, because it's not going to stop. You know, every week there is something new that happens. we're just hoping to put that information out there and to give hope to others that are dealing with very similar scenarios like we are. If you'd like to join the show, please take an email us, you know, livinguncertain at gmail.com or. you know, go and fill out the interest form at the bottom of the episode description. And if you know of anybody that can benefit from our podcast, please forward it to them. you know, we want to continue to reach as many people as possible. And we'd love to have you all and to hear from you and to give you a platform to share your stories as well so that we can all keep growing and healing on this journey together. Thank you for listening tonight. Yeah. As always, you guys, thanks for living uncertain with us. Have a great night, y'all.