Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: The Palm Beach Officials Who Refused to Let The Epstein Case Die (6/12/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: The Palm Beach Officials Who Refused to Let The Epstein Case Die (6/12/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: Come back to the Epstein chronicles. In this look back episode,
0:05
we're going to hear from former police Chief Michael Rider
0:09
of the Palm Beach Police Department. This article was published
0:16
by NBC News and it was published on September twentieth
0:20
of two thousand and nineteen. The authors of this piece
0:26
Sarah Fitzpatrick and Rich Shapiro. Former Palm Beach Police Chief
0:34
Michael Ryder spent years trying to convince state and federal
0:38
prosecutors in Florida to bring serious charges against Jeffrey Epstein. Now,
0:44
the retired lawman wants to tackle a new mission to
0:47
persuade lawmakers to take action to prevent the next Jeffrey
0:52
Epstein from perverting the criminal justice system. Now, Michael Ryder
0:58
was one of the only good if there were any
1:01
good guys, if you will, in the whole entire Epstein saga.
1:06
This guy listened to what these girls said, compiled a
1:09
whole bunch of evidence, and then turn that evidence over
1:12
to the prosecutors. Now, once the prosecutors have that evidence,
1:17
it's up to them to do the right thing with it. Right,
1:19
It's up to them to make sure that they get indictments.
1:22
And then after they get the indictment, it's up to
1:24
them to make sure that these people are convicted. So
1:29
they failed. The prosecutors in Florida failed. The police officers
1:33
in Palm Beach who worked this case originally, they did
1:37
great work. The investigators were all over this. They compiled
1:41
all kinds of evidence. When it comes to Jeffrey Epstein,
1:45
it was the prosecutors once again who decided not to
1:49
pursue it. Epstein found every loophole, writer told NBC News
1:57
as part of a month's long Dateline investigation, I want
2:00
some system in the future that this can't happen again.
2:04
He's not wrong. One of the ongoing conversations we've had
2:08
about these people, all of them, is how they navigate loopholes,
2:13
how they navigate technicalities and somehow harness them always to
2:18
work in their favor. Now, I guess that's what they
2:20
were put into these laws for in the first place, right,
2:24
so the rich people can navigate them and not get
2:27
in trouble when they're the ones who gets slapped with them.
2:30
Like we said previously several times, it's like when you
2:33
have a computer programmer who creates software, they leave themselves
2:37
a little back door, so they can access it right
2:41
same thing here. They know that the small folk us
2:45
are going to be the ones who have to live
2:48
up to these laws, not them, not their friends. Writers
2:53
said he believes the state and federal prosecutors handling of
2:56
the Epstein case amounts to the worst failure of them
3:00
criminal justice system in modern times. Look, he's not wrong.
3:05
It's the reason we're still talking about this right now.
3:07
It's that impactful, it's that important about how the criminal
3:12
justice system is conducted moving forward. We need something that
3:18
provides equitable law for everybody. If you're a girl from
3:24
the quote unquote other side of the tracks, and you
3:28
say you were abused by a rich and powerful man,
3:30
and there's evidence to back that up, you should be
3:33
listened to. And for way too long, these guys had
3:38
all of their loopholes, all of their technicalities, and they
3:42
were able to navigate the criminal justice system by using
3:46
those and harnessing the relationships that they built with the
3:49
other so called elite, and that amounted to get out
3:53
of jail free cards. The story begins in March of
3:59
two thousand and five, when the Palm Beach Police Department
4:03
received a call from the distraught mother of a fourteen
4:06
year old girl. Now imagine being the cop on the
4:08
other of the other end of that phone call. Uh yeah,
4:12
this is the Palm Beach Police Department, Sergeant Stanton speaking,
4:17
Oh my god, my daughter has been abused by Okay,
4:19
hold on, man, slow down. And then you start processing
4:23
the details and the name that's being dropped, and all
4:26
of a sudden, you know, right away you have yourself
4:28
a big problem because when rich people are accused of
4:32
stuff like this, they automatically strike back, and there's you know,
4:37
problems for the people who bring this stuff up. So
4:40
I'm sure the cops weren't too happy to hear the
4:42
name Jeffrey Epstein. But what I will say about the
4:46
Palm Beach Police Department, they didn't shy away from it.
4:49
They did their job. They did their duty. The woman
4:55
writer recalled said her underage daughter was having sex with
4:58
an adult who lives in a in Palm Beach. Palm
5:02
Beach police detectives immediately launched an investigation. Yeah, that's probably
5:06
the right thing to do. You got some guy living
5:09
in a mansion and he's having a relationship with a
5:13
fourteen year old girl. Probably a good idea to launch
5:17
an investigation. And I don't care who that person is
5:19
in the mansion. I don't care if it is the
5:23
most famous person in the world. You can't be abusing children. Okay.
5:32
So the Palm Beach Police Department they started going hard,
5:35
and if you know the story, well, you know that
5:37
they really were kicking in some doors and asking some
5:41
very uncomfortable questions. Do you think it's just a shock,
5:45
just a coincidence that this got kicked away to the
5:49
Feds and then back down to the state level. They
5:53
wanted it to look like, oh yeah, we're gonna take action,
5:56
We're gonna kick it up to the feds, But really
5:58
they never had any intention of the FEDS prosecuting this case.
6:07
They said, this is credible, this is believable, said Ryder,
6:11
speaking in his first in depth TV interview. Our sense,
6:15
just from sitting in the room with the first survivor
6:17
was that this is something we've absolutely got to get on.
6:22
So right from Jump Street, the Palm Beach Police Department
6:25
knew that this was something way bigger. And Michael Ryder,
6:29
the chief here, he didn't spare any expenses, right, He
6:33
was all over this. He had his investigators looking into it,
6:37
chasing down leads and what they uncovered. What they found
6:41
was terrifying. The interview with the initial young girl led
6:46
to another and another. I have no problem telling you
6:50
everything that I know, one of the girls told the
6:52
police in a videotaped interview obtained by NBC News. Another
6:57
told police that Epstein pulled out this vibrator thing and
7:00
he pulled down my panties. Now, remember they only listened
7:03
to had one girl speak in front of the grand jury.
7:06
Why if all of these girls came forward with all
7:09
of these credible allegations, why only have the one girl
7:12
speak in front of the grand jury? That does not
7:15
make sense. The investigators were immediately struck by the consistency
7:21
of the accounts. Writer said the stories were all the same.
7:25
He said, they all could describe the house in detail,
7:28
they could describe what happened, and they didn't know each other.
7:31
It wasn't like all these girls got together and said,
7:34
all right, we're gonna take down Jeffrey Epstein, the guy
7:37
who lives in the mansion down the block. Nobody even
7:40
knew wh Epstein really was at this point. He wasn't
7:42
a celebrity. So that whole line of thinking has always
7:47
been garbage to me. These were just young kids, high
7:49
school kids, younger in some cases. But the detectives also
7:57
observed that the accounts weren't perfectly aligned. That would have
8:01
been a red flag that the stories were coordinated, were coordinated,
8:04
writer said. The investigators noted something else of significance. Many
8:10
of the survivors didn't know each other, so there was
8:13
little chance that they would have come together to concoct
8:16
false allegations, and that, of course, was the bedrock of
8:20
Epstein's defense. Right, this is all fake. Everyone's looking for
8:23
a pay day. I'm like a piggy bank. Blah blah,
8:27
blah blah. Within those first few weeks, the investigation was
8:36
already bearing fruit. We realized this was basically a way
8:40
of life for Epstein, writer said. And it didn't take
8:43
long to realize that a lot of people were involved
8:46
in this. This was a very prolific sexual predator. Now,
8:50
listen to what the chief of police is saying here. Okay,
8:53
and this is what I always tell you to do.
8:55
Don't listen to me, don't listen to Joe Schmoe who
8:58
has the other podcast. Listen to what these policemen say.
9:01
Listen to what these investigators say, listen to what the
9:05
survivors say. There were a lot of people that were
9:09
involved in this. This was a very prolific sexual predator.
9:13
That's not someone making up a story. That's not some
9:17
guy who just got involved in the case yesterday. That's
9:20
Michael Ryder, the man who investigated this as the police
9:23
chief in Palm Beach, who blew this shit open. He
9:26
even knows how much more and how deeper this goes.
9:32
Detectives picked through Epstein's trash and discovered incriminating messages on
9:37
scraps of paper documenting phone calls. She is wondering if
9:41
two thirty is okay? She needs to stay in school?
9:44
Read one imagine and whoever took that note down is
9:48
another piece of shit. What do you mean she needs
9:50
to stay in school? Why are any school age girls
9:54
calling Jeffrey Epstein in the first place? The note, it
9:59
was clear to lease, were about massages and sex, writers said.
10:03
And it just wasn't phone messages, writer said. Epstein had
10:07
flowers delivered to one of the survivors who was in
10:10
a performance of performance at her high school, congratulating her
10:13
at the end of the performance. Now, imagine how brazen
10:16
you must be this high school age girl that you're
10:19
sexually abusing. She has this high school performance and you
10:23
send her flowers. Now, I know if I was the
10:28
dad of that girl, there would be problems, conversations would
10:34
be had. This dirty son of a bitch was so
10:38
brazen in his behavior, so brazen in his activity, that
10:42
he would send flowers to a girl after her performance.
10:48
NBC News has spoken with nearly two dozen women who
10:51
alleged that Epstein didn't operate alone. Writer said the investigation
10:56
identified adult women who had sexual contact with underage girls
11:00
and in some cases performed sexual battery on children. This
11:05
was a financially successful, smart capable, well networked, and well
11:10
financed individual who built an organization around him that supported
11:15
his criminal enterprise. Writer said, Now, if you're wondering why
11:19
I always talk about Rico and how this isn't a
11:21
Rico case, folks, what more do you need? I mean, honestly,
11:25
and again, this is another reason why I've chosen the
11:28
format that I have chosen to follow along with these articles.
11:35
That way, everything is uniformed. It's not me making this
11:38
stuff up, right, or oh this is just a guest
11:41
by me. This is from curating all of these articles
11:45
and following all of this evidence and listening to what
11:48
the key players had to say for me, survivors, lawyers,
11:53
and the law enforcement agents on the ground, not the
11:56
jerk offs in the back room, not the accostas of
11:59
the world, guys like Michael Ryder. And when you listen
12:02
to what they have to say, it is rather obvious
12:05
that this was a criminal enterprise that should have been
12:08
recoed and everybody involved should have seen a prison cell.
12:14
But as the months wore on, with police building their case,
12:18
odd things began to happen. When detectives armed with a
12:21
search warrant entered his home with a video camera. What
12:24
they found made them suspect he had been tipped off.
12:28
The place had been cleaned up. Riders said, it wasn't
12:31
completely devoid of evidence, but a computer that contained all
12:34
of the home surveillance camera footage was gone and all
12:38
the wires were left hanging there. A rider said, so
12:41
they did a dump and pump came in, ripped everything
12:43
out real quick, all of the monitoring equipment. Because somebody
12:48
in the government tipped them off, one of their buddies.
12:50
But nah, Jeffrey Epstein wasn't connected, he wasn't an asset.
12:58
After six months of investigation, Rider said, the local police
13:01
department noticed a shift in attitude from the state prosecutors.
13:05
Riders said the prosecutors told them the witnesses were not credible.
13:09
The prosecutor's Rider said, suddenly seemed dismissive of the case
13:14
and were uncooperative in approving critical investigative techniques that hindered
13:18
the Palm Beach Police Department's investigation. No shit, no shit,
13:23
they were. These guys were working behind the scenes with
13:26
Epstein's lawyers to make sure this went nowhere, or at
13:29
the very least, make sure Epstein got just a little
13:32
smack on the ass. No real jail time, thirteen months
13:36
in a stockade. Are you kidding me? Right now? I've
13:41
had punishments from my parents that were worse than that. Epstein,
13:48
who had a massive bankroll and extensive connections, had assembled
13:52
a high powered team of lawyers, including Kenneth Starr, Alan Dershowitz,
13:57
Jack Goldberger, and Jay Lefquiz. Around this time, Rider said
14:03
the investigation took another strange turn. Epstein's defense team seemed
14:08
to know details about the probe before they were made public,
14:11
whoa what do you know? Just take your pick from
14:15
Ken Starr, Alan Dershowitz, Jack Goldberger, or Jay Lefqwitz about
14:19
who could have manipulated their influence, their relationships behind the
14:23
scenes to turn it into something like this. Folks, we
14:26
talk about it all the time. When you go to
14:28
Harvard and you get your law degree and then you're
14:31
practicing law, people aren't really paying you because you went
14:35
to Harvard, per se. They're paying you because now you
14:38
have access to all of the other scoundrels who went
14:41
to Harvard, So you have inside connections, you have access,
14:44
and that's what you're paying for. When you get a
14:46
high profile lawyer, Your lawyers are going out to eat dinner,
14:49
and who knows what else with these prosecutors down here
14:52
in Florida at least and at the federal level, when
14:56
we're talking about Mukaesy and the others, and we wonder
15:00
why Epstein doesn't get punished like the rest of us would.
15:03
How many of you gotten an invite to go play
15:05
around to eighteen with insert federal official here. We believe
15:13
that the content of our probable cause Affidavid Eventually, sometime
15:16
after we presented it to the State's attorney's office ended
15:20
up with the defense. Attorney's writer said because minute details
15:23
that nobody else knew that were in those documents were
15:27
being refuted and contrary information provided by the defense, this
15:32
writer said, never happened to me before in my career.
15:36
And this is a guy again, he's in Palm Beach
15:38
dealing with rich, powerful people. Never in his life as
15:41
he dealt with something like this, however, But no, continue
15:45
to tell me that Epstein wasn't getting hooked up, that
15:47
nobody was there helping him make sure that the walls
15:51
don't fall in, and then tell me that this wasn't
15:54
a Rico case. Rider was so frustrated that he took
15:59
the unusual will step of asking the state Attorney, Barry Krisher,
16:02
to remove himself from the case, citing the office highly
16:06
unusual treatment of the investigation. When that didn't work, the
16:10
police chief chief turned his evidence over to the FBI.
16:14
And you would think, right, the g men are coming.
16:16
This is awesome, all right, perfect, the FBI. They're gonna
16:19
save the day. And look, don't get it twisted again, folks.
16:22
I'm not talking about your average agent that's working his
16:26
tailoff or her tail off to try and keep us safe.
16:29
There's a lot of those people that are going after
16:31
some horrible, fucking criminals. My problem isn't with them. My
16:36
problem is with the command structure, the bureaucracy that runs
16:40
this whole entire monolith. They look at us like we're
16:45
just numbers, Like we don't matter as far as you know,
16:49
the citizens of this country, and they feel like they've
16:51
been given the charter to do as they wish. And
16:57
how many times do we see good agents like or
17:00
good cops in this instance, like Mike Ryder gets screwed
17:03
by prosecutors and these federal minions at the Department of Justice,
17:08
those are the people I have a problem with, not
17:11
the rank and file. And they said, this is an
17:17
easy case, this is a horrific situation. We'll put them
17:20
away for the rest of his life. Writer recalled, that's
17:23
what the US Attorney assistant US attorney told us as well.
17:27
But writers renewed enthusiasm didn't last long. In time, it
17:32
became clear that the federal probe was stalling. Though he
17:35
believes the FBI agents were invested in the case. Writer
17:39
arranged to meet face to face with the prosecutor in
17:42
charge of the case US Attorney alex I have no spine, bitch,
17:46
ass Acosta. Acosta would go on to be named US
17:50
Labor Secretary under President Donald Trump. Another brilliant move by
17:55
old Trump. Huh, alex Acosta, I mean, you don't have
17:59
this conversation with him, and then even if you do,
18:02
you still go through with it. There's not a better
18:05
person in the whole entire country that could have been
18:07
Labor secretary. Huh. But I have to say this, I'm
18:10
thankful that Trump, in a weird way put him there,
18:13
because if alex Acosta wasn't in this position, and there weren't,
18:18
you know, a bit of politicism happening around this, we
18:21
probably would have never had the second arrest of Epstein
18:24
because would Julie Brown really been as interested if this
18:29
didn't have the political been to it, if it wasn't
18:32
a Trump appointee. Again, maybe I don't know. We can't
18:37
tell one way or the other. The future was what
18:40
it was. But I have a funny feeling that if
18:45
it wasn't for Trump appointing alex Acosta as Labor Secretary
18:50
in a weird way, we would have never been at
18:52
the point we are now. But Ryder left Acosta's office
18:56
hoping for the best after the prosecutor told him they
18:59
were moving forward with the investigation. I left that meeting thinking,
19:04
this guy hopefully is going to do his job. Writer said.
19:07
It didn't turn out the way a Rider had hoped.
19:10
In two thousand and seven, Acosta made the decision not
19:13
to charge Epstein in federal court. Instead, he sent the
19:17
case back to the local prosecutors. Now, again, I don't
19:20
think this was a costa on his own. You can't
19:22
make this decision as a mid level bureaucrat. This was
19:27
a decision that was made on high and Acosta was
19:29
just the trigger man. Rider was crushed. The same office
19:36
that seemingly refused to pursue Epstein aggressively was now back
19:41
in charge. And again you could say, oh, this is
19:44
a coincidence. It's just you know, the way things happen sometimes.
19:48
But there sure are a lot of coincidences around Jeffrey Epstein.
19:52
Isn't there the cameras, the missing emails, all of this nonsense.
19:57
At what point is it not coincidence? And is it
20:02
just what it is? Acosta agreed to sign a non
20:08
prosecution deal that ended the federal sex crimes investigation and
20:12
spared Epstein the prospect of serving several years in prison. Instead,
20:17
Epstein pleaded guilty to state charges for soliciting a minor
20:21
for prostitution and served thirteen months at Palm Beach County Jail.
20:26
Epstein was also required to register as a sex offender
20:29
and pay his restitution to his survivors. Eh didn't have
20:33
to register in New Mexico. Huh, I've never seen anything
20:38
like it, Ryder said. It was extremely unusual and disappointing.
20:42
Ryder said he believes the result would have been different
20:45
had the victims been under age boys that would have
20:48
shocked the senses more. Writer said, somehow this hits in
20:51
a different place that they were young women on the
20:54
way to being women, and he's not really wrong about that. Yeah,
20:58
how many people have set these girls up as prostitutes?
21:01
Or why do they keep coming back the brain dead
21:05
narrative that they wanted this to happen? You know, the
21:08
same folks that will say, oh, well, she was wearing
21:10
a mini skirt, so way more nuanced than that. When
21:15
you have all of the different things that went in
21:18
to grooming these girls and normalizing all of this, it's
21:21
a whole different ballgame. But he's not wrong. Boys would
21:24
have really shocked the emotions and shocked the senses. Epstein
21:32
was released from jail in the summer of two thousand
21:34
and nine, The case scene behind him until twenty and eighteen,
21:38
when The Miami Herald published an expose highlighting the government's
21:41
kid glove treating of a man accused of praying on
21:45
dozens of underage girls. Acosta defended the way his office
21:49
handled what he described as a complicated case. We believe
21:53
we proceeded appropriately, Acosta said during a July twenty and
21:57
nineteen press conference. We did what we did because we
22:01
wanted to see Epstein go to jail. So you mean
22:03
to tell me the federal government couldn't have done that
22:06
if you really wanted to see and again, let me
22:08
back up, you might want to see him go to jail.
22:10
We want to see him go to prison, okay, And
22:13
you not running the federal charges, you and your bosses
22:16
taking the step back that made sure that Epstein was
22:20
never going to federal prison. But Acosta resigned as litt
22:26
oh excuse me. Acosta defended the way his office handled
22:30
what he described as a complicated case. We believed we
22:34
proceeded appropriately. Acosta said during a July twenty nineteen press conference.
22:39
We did what we did because we wanted to see
22:41
Epstein go to jail. But Acosta resigned as Labor Secretary
22:45
two days later amid mounting criticism. Krisher, the former state attorney,
22:50
didn't return her request for comment from MDC News, but
22:54
he relates a statement in July defending his office and
22:58
pushing back against Acosta, suggesting that state prosecutors were driving
23:02
the case. Nobody wants to take responsibility ever, right. It's
23:06
always somebody else's fault. It's always someone else who did
23:10
something wrong. In reality, the Feds fucked up and the
23:15
state fucked up. If mister Acosta was truly concerned with
23:22
the state's case and felt he had to rescue the matter,
23:26
he would have moved forward with the fifty three page
23:29
indictment that his own office once drafted. Chrisher said Epstein
23:33
was arrested on fresh charges in July. New York federal
23:36
prosecutors charged him with its sex trafficking and conspiracy in
23:40
a case that featured similar allegations to those a decade earlier.
23:45
Never far enough right, how again? How isn't this rico
23:49
considering not what I said to you, but what Michael
23:51
Ryder laid out to you just previously in this article.
23:56
Epstein pleaded not guilty, but he committed suicide in his
24:00
federal jail cell last month. The death left Rider thinking
24:04
about the survivors and their lost chance to see him
24:07
held accountable. I feel so badly for the survivors, writers said.
24:11
I realize that there's a Catharsis in confronting Epstein, and
24:14
they'll never have that opportunity. But he hopes that the
24:18
entirety of the case will lead to systemic change. The
24:21
criminal justice system needs to learn from this and make
24:24
sure it can't happen again, said Ryder, who still lives
24:28
in Palm Beach where he runs a security consulting firm.
24:32
Rider wants to see legislation that bars miners from being
24:35
labeled as prostitutes in the justice system. He also called
24:38
on Florida lawmakers to close loopholes that allow people like
24:42
Epstein to get away with misdemeanors for child sex crimes.
24:46
I mean, is he wrong? Does a cop a former
24:50
cop have to call for this? Why wouldn't our politicians,
24:53
the ones who make the laws do it themselves. Oh,
24:56
they're the ones who put this law in the books.
24:58
Oh that's right. If you look at the first dozen
25:03
victims and their accounts of what happened to them, it's
25:06
clear to me he was coached by a lawyer on
25:08
how to only commit a misdemeanor. Writer said, if you're
25:12
a member of the legislature and you're listening to this
25:15
right now, fix this. It needs to be fixed. And
25:18
I'm guessing that lawyer. I don't have proof of this,
25:20
but I'm guessing it was Darren Endyke. Writer also delivered
25:24
a message to all of those girls whose lives were
25:27
upended by a middle aged sexual predator with endless resources
25:31
available to him. I don't have any contact with the survivors,
25:35
and if they're listening now, I'm embarrassed for the way
25:38
the criminal justice system treated them back then and Florida
25:41
writer said, but I want them to know that not
25:44
every part of the system failed them. We did our
25:47
job in Palm Beach and at the Palm Beach Police Department,
25:50
and everything that happens here should lead to in the
25:53
future if any of these things happen again to some
25:56
other victim, that the system won't fail them, and I'd
26:01
like to believe that, but man, I have a hard
26:03
time believing it, Folks. I am very cynical about our
26:07
justice system, as you all know, and the more I see,
26:13
the more cynical I become. So. While I hope that
26:16
Michael Ryder's plea will find its way to the ears
26:19
of our legislators, for some reason, I still have my doubts.
26:26
If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
26:28
at Bobby Kapuci at ProtonMail dot com. That's bo b
26:32
b Y c ap u Cci at ProtonMail dot com.
26:37
You can also find me on Twitter at bo bby
26:41
underscore c ap u c c I. The link that
26:45
we discussed can be found in the description boss question.
26:49
What's up everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
26:53
In this episode, we're going to take a look at
26:55
the deposition of Joseph Riccari, the detective who was in
26:59
charge arch to the investigation in Palm Beach after the
27:03
initial claims against Jeffrey Epstein were made, and he goes
27:07
into detail about how Jeffrey Epstein was recruiting girls and
27:10
how he was getting them from the local high school
27:13
So for all the people out there talking about conspiracy theories,
27:17
my suggestion is you do yourself a favor and dive
27:20
into these core documents and learn a thing or two.
27:24
All right, So we have Joseph Riccari, who is going
27:28
to be questioned by Brad Edwards, who is a lawyer
27:31
for multiple survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and someone that was
27:34
engaged in a struggle against Epstein for years, and the
27:40
deposition starts right off with mister Raccari speaking. I wanted
27:44
to speak with everyone related to this home, including miss Maxwell.
27:48
My contact was through Gus attorney Gus Fronsten at the time,
27:52
who initially had told me that he would make everyone
27:54
available for an interview, and subsequent conversations later no one
27:58
was available for an interview. You and everybody had an
28:01
attorney and I was not going to be able to
28:03
speak with them. Edwards, Okay, during your investigation, what did
28:08
you learn in terms of Glen Maxwell's involvement, if any,
28:12
Pagliuca objection to form and the foundation Riccary. Miss Maxwell,
28:17
during her research, was found to be Epstein's longtime friend.
28:21
During the interviews, Miss Maxwell was involved in seeking girls
28:24
to perform massages and work at Epstein's home. Pagliuka object
28:29
to the form and the Foundation. Edwards, did you interview?
28:33
How many girls did you interview that were sought to
28:35
give or that actually gave massages at Epstein's home, Mister
28:39
Pagliuka objective form and the Foundation? Edwards? Approximately Pagliuca, same objection, Riccary,
28:48
I would say approximately thirty, thirty or thirty three, Mister Edwards.
28:53
And of the thirty or thirty three or so girls,
28:56
how many had massage experience Pagluka objection to the and
29:00
the foundation? The witness, I believe two of them may
29:03
have been at two of them Edwards okay? And as
29:07
we go through this report, you may remember the names Ricary. Correct.
29:11
Let me correct myself. I believe only one had Edwards
29:15
and that was was that one of the similar age
29:18
to the other girls Pakluka objective form and the Foundation. Ricary,
29:23
No Edwards, okay? The one with massage experience was older,
29:27
mister Pakliuka, Objective form and Foundation. The witness correct Edwards.
29:33
The remainder of the thirty girls that went to this
29:36
house for the purpose of massage or recruited for massage
29:39
is it my understanding that they had no massage experience,
29:43
Mister Pakliuka object to the form and the Foundation ricary.
29:48
That's correct Edwards. And were the majority of those girls
29:51
that you interviewed over or under the age of eighteen?
29:55
Mister Pakliuka object to the form and the Foundation riccary.
29:59
The the majority you were under mister Edwards. And how
30:03
was it that mister Epstein gained access to that number
30:06
of underage girls? Pagliuka objective form and the Foundation ricary.
30:12
Each of the victims that went to the home were
30:14
asked to bring their friends to the home. Some complied
30:17
and some didn't. Edwards, Okay, so the victim would come
30:21
to the home and could give a massage and get
30:23
paid for it, is that right, mister Pagliuka, Objective form
30:27
and the Foundation ricary correct Edwards. And at the end
30:31
of the massage, if that victim brought other friends, she
30:34
would get paid for the recruitment of those friends. Pagliuka
30:38
objective form and Foundation ricary, correct Edwards. Additionally, did your
30:44
investigation reveal that the assistance of Jeffrey Epstein would call
30:48
and set up for these girls to come over to
30:50
the house for the massage. Pagliuka objective form and foundation
30:55
ricary correct Edwards, and as well, certain people that were
31:00
friends or girlfriends or assistants of Jeffrey Epstein would recruit
31:04
girls under the pretense of giving a massage. Mister Pagliuka
31:08
object to the form and the foundation ricary correct Edwards.
31:13
Is that what your investigation revealed in terms of the
31:16
system of getting these girls over to the house, Mister
31:19
Pagliuca object to the form and the foundation ricary. Yes. Edwards, okay.
31:25
Talking about the massages, when when these the various girls
31:29
that you interviewed describe the massages, was there a pattern
31:32
of what occurred during these massages? Pakliuka object to the
31:36
form and the foundation ricary? Yes, there was, Edwards, Okay,
31:41
describe for me what the pattern was that was told
31:44
to you by the thirty or so girls that you interviewed.
31:47
Pagliuka object to the form and the foundation riccary. Initially,
31:52
when when the victims would come into the home and
31:55
were brought upstairs to provide the massage, Epstein would lay
31:58
on his massage table where they would start to rub
32:00
his back and the back of his legs. Epstein would
32:03
either attempt to fondle the girls or touch the girls inappropriately,
32:07
and at which point he would masturbate, and when he
32:10
was done, he would get up go wash off, while
32:12
the girl would get dressed and go back downstairs and
32:15
get paid. Edwards, Okay, So did you determine that massage
32:20
was actually a code word for something else? Pagliuca object
32:23
to the form and the Foundation riccary. When they went
32:26
to perform a massage it was for sexual gratification. Edwards.
32:30
And when the assistants would call and ask these girls
32:32
to work, did you learn the term work meant with
32:35
respect to these girls coming to the house Pagluka object
32:39
a form and the Foundation ricary. Work meant to come
32:42
and provide epstein a massage Edwards and massage? How often
32:46
would these massages, based upon your investigation, turn into something sexual?
32:51
Mister Pagliuka object to form and the Foundation ricary. During
32:55
the investigation, it was determined that he would have multiple
32:58
massages during the day. He would have some in the
33:01
morning and some in the afternoon, sometimes into the evening. Edwards,
33:05
all right, and so when you went to speak with
33:08
the victims, what did these victims say about their experience
33:11
with Jeffrey Epstein Pagliuka Objective Form and Foundation ricari. Once
33:17
they were recruited, they were brought to the home. They
33:20
were to provide a massage. Some of the victims did
33:23
not want to be touched. Some of the victims did
33:26
not want to partake in any of that. So it
33:28
was I believe for a couple of them it was
33:31
only a one shot deal, but others continued to come Edwards. Okay,
33:35
And as you interviewed some of these victims, did you
33:38
learn that some of these victims also brought additional girls
33:41
Pagliuka Objective Form and Foundation Edwards, So as you're investigating
33:47
this case, as part of your investigation, you're learning information
33:51
from these victims and then going to talk to the
33:54
next person down the line, if you will, Pagliuka objective
33:57
form and the Foundation correct Edwards. And what is the
34:02
purpose of that ricary to identify further victims and acquire
34:06
additional information? Edwards? And in doing that, were you able
34:11
to corroborate the accuracy of what the first victim told you?
34:14
Pagliuka objection to the form and the foundation ricary correct Edwards? Okay?
34:21
And did you learn of Sarah Kellen's involvement with respect
34:24
to the various girls Pakliuka objective form and foundation rocary,
34:29
Yes Edwards. What was her role Pakluka objective form and
34:33
foundation ricary that is correct Edwards. And did you turn
34:37
all of your files over to either the State Attorney's
34:40
office or the FBI ricary that is correct Edwards and
34:44
through the State's Attorney's office. Was the information contained within
34:48
the probable cause Avid David and the incident reports a
34:51
publicly available document Pakliuka object to the form and the
34:55
foundation ricary, Yes, Edwards. And around the time of your
34:59
investment mitigation, around the time you ended your investigation and thereafter,
35:04
were various newspaper articles written about the substance of some
35:07
of your investigation ricary, Yes, Edwards. Did it become well
35:12
known to the public that Jeffrey Epstein had recruited high
35:15
school girls to his house for the purpose of some
35:18
sexually involved massage. Pagliuka object to the form and the
35:23
foundation rocary that is correct Edwards. And in fact, haven't
35:28
you read many of these newspaper articles rocary that is
35:31
correct Edwards. That was not a hidden secret from the public.
35:35
Beginning in two thousand and six, right, Rocary, No, Edwards,
35:39
and from your overall investigation, kind of just a big picture,
35:43
what was the criminal activity as specific as you can
35:46
that you learned that Jeffrey Epstein and others were involved
35:49
in Pagliuka objection to Form and Foundation. Rocary, it was
35:54
sexual battery and loudon lascivious conduct for under the age
35:57
of sixteen. Now, remember, folks, this is Joseph Roccari giving
36:01
you his account. This was the lead detective on the
36:04
case down in Palm Beach. And if you wonder where
36:07
I get my receipts from, well you have now cracked
36:09
the case. These court documents are a treasure trove of information,
36:13
and not disease, but the ones that came previously. Edwards,
36:17
and what was the specific system of engaging in this
36:20
type of activity Pagliuka objective form and Foundation. Roccary, as
36:26
to Edwards, interrupts them from the recruitment to the how
36:30
did you get them? What did you do? How did
36:32
you keep it going? Roccari ONTs the he's interrupted by
36:36
Pagliuca object to the Forum and Foundation. Sorry, Rocary, No, No.
36:40
As it became known to us that the victims were recruited,
36:44
brought to the home, provided the massage was paid, whether
36:47
there was inappropriate touching, whether there was sexual activity, whether
36:51
there was actually inter courts. All of that was documented
36:54
and was asked whether they brought anyone to the home,
36:56
whether they had any formal training in massage therapy, and
37:00
once additional victims were identified, we continued the same the
37:04
same method of investigation. And this is a big hole
37:08
in Maxwell and Epstein's stupid ass plot. There's no fifteen
37:11
or sixteen or seventeen year old girl that's giving you
37:14
the quality of a massage that you'd get from a professional.
37:17
These people are rich, they have all the money in
37:19
the world. They could get the best massage therapists going
37:22
to come over and get them worked on. But that
37:25
wasn't what they were looking for, is it. Edwards? Okay?
37:29
And one of the earliest victims in terms of the
37:31
chronology of the Pyramid of Girls, for lack of a
37:34
better word, you understand what I mean by that, right,
37:37
mister Pagliuka object to the form and the foundation Riccary. Yes, Edwards,
37:44
there's one of the earliest victims that you interviewed was
37:47
Haley Robson. Is that right, Pagliuka objective form and foundation. Riccary,
37:53
It was actually SG, I think was the first one
37:56
that was interviewed, and then HR was the one that
37:59
I interview Edwards. Okay, my question was bad. I know
38:03
that the first person interviewed that kind of kicked off
38:06
the investigation was SG. But and just to create a
38:09
picture of what we have here, this is and tell
38:12
me if I characterize it wrong. A scheme that Jeffrey
38:15
Epstein engaged in by using assistance to recruit girls. Right,
38:19
Ricary correct Edwards under the Pagliuca object to form and foundation.
38:26
Edwards under the pretense of giving a massage Pagliuka objective
38:30
form and foundation. Ricary correct either a massage and or
38:35
become a model for Victoria's secret and or connections. So
38:38
when you hear people talking about, oh, well, they were
38:41
just hanging around Epstein, that's not that big of a deal. Yes,
38:44
it is. They enabled his bullshit, and anybody saying any
38:47
different has no idea what they're talking about. Edwards, and
38:51
when he was able to get these girls to his home,
38:53
he would then offer them money to also become recruiters
38:55
for him. Pagliuka objective form and the Foundation already correct Edwards,
39:02
and that created this if you mapped it out, kind
39:05
of a spider web or a pyramid of girls bringing
39:07
girls to Jeffrey Epstein's house. Pagliuka object to the form,
39:12
and the foundation mister Edwards, right, Ricary correct Edwards. All right.
39:18
So when I say one of the first I mean
39:20
the top of the pyramid, one of the earliest people
39:23
that you interviewed that brought girls to Jeffrey Epstein's house
39:26
was Hr Ricary correct Pagliuka objective form and the Foundation Edwards.
39:33
And I think that you testified that Molly and Tony
39:36
drove Hr to Jeffrey Epstein's house the first time, right,
39:40
Pagliuka object to the form and the foundation Ricary correct Edwards.
39:46
Did you ever trace all the way up to the
39:48
highest level to determine who it was that started this
39:52
particular chain of Palm Beach girls coming over to Jeffrey
39:54
Epstein's home. Pagliuka, objective form and Foundation did not. And
40:00
that's where the document cuts off. But from that little
40:03
brief exchange, you can see what Riccary is saying here,
40:06
and you can see just how disgusting Jeffrey Epstein's bullshit
40:10
was and this is before we're even talking about the
40:13
highly publicized cases. These are the high school girls in
40:16
Palm Beach. And if you want to hear it right
40:18
from the horse's mouth, I think that Detective Riccary and
40:21
his account here in this deposition is a good place
40:24
to start. Considering this man was the lead investigator on
40:28
the original case down in Florida. So this was the
40:30
original investigation that we're talking about, and this mainly had
40:35
to do with girls from Palm Beach High School. So
40:37
keep that in mind when you're listening to this or
40:39
you hear anything from Detective Raccari. All right, folks, that's
40:43
gonna do it for this one. All the information that
40:45
goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
40:50
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
40:54
In this episode, we're picking up where we left off
40:57
with the deposition of Detective Joseph Rocary. This report, the
41:03
Palm Beach Police Department Incident Report, Exhibit one, is the
41:06
summary of your investigation. Correct answer, Ricary, correct Pagliuca, and
41:12
these recitations of your interviews are abbreviated summaries. Correct answer correct, Pagliuka.
41:20
And so you typing into this report parts of it,
41:22
but not every word verbatim into the report. Correct answer right, Pagliuca.
41:29
And again, the originals of these tapes are somewhere with
41:32
the FBI at this point, correct Schultz, objective form and
41:36
the Foundation Recary correct or at the State Attorney's office. Pagliuka,
41:41
are you aware of any of these originals? Unfortunately it
41:45
jumps right there from page one ninety six to page
41:48
two oh three, so we don't get an answer from
41:51
Detective Rocary right into the next line of questioning. That
41:55
would be one. Probably Victim JB would be another. I
41:59
believe there was a victim mL as well. Pagliuka. Okay,
42:03
let me ask this question, as you sit here today,
42:06
do you know who the subjects of the four counts
42:09
that are referenced on the first page of Exhibit seven
42:12
are Rocary? If I went through the entire pc Avid, David,
42:16
I could I could tell you who. But I just
42:19
named three Pakluka. Okay, Rocary, So, like I said, I
42:24
can go through it and tell you who exactly those
42:27
four counts were four Pagliuka, Okay, we are limited to
42:30
four though right, answer four instances Schultz object to form
42:35
Pakluka Right. And then throughout this entire twenty two page
42:40
Palm Beach Police Department, Avid David, Miss Maxwell's name does
42:43
not appear in here once, does it? Schultz, objective form rocary.
42:48
I don't believe so. No. And then again here we
42:50
have another jump from page two oh three to page
42:53
two to eleven, Pagliuka. And then mister Epstein has arrested
42:57
and ends up pleading guilty and all of that, right, Schultz,
43:00
objective form riccary. I think there was a non prosecution
43:05
agreement prepared between the feds, and some kind of agreement
43:08
was made. But yes, he did end up pleading guilty. Pagliuca.
43:12
All right, Now, based on the questions that were asked
43:15
of you in the grand jury, it's fair to say
43:17
that miss Maxwell was not a target of the grand
43:20
jury's investigation. Correct, Mister Schultz object to the form and
43:24
the foundation ricary. Not based on the questions that the
43:28
state was asking me? No, the state wasn't. He gets
43:31
interrupted here by Pagliuca. In fact, it's fair to say
43:34
that you never said miss Maxwell's name in the grand jury, right, Schultz,
43:38
objective form and the foundation Riccary No, based on the
43:42
questions that the state was asking. No, Pagliuka, were you
43:46
aware of who was being issued subpoenas by the grand jury? Answer? No,
43:51
but it wasn't the actual subpoena from the grand jury.
43:54
It came from the state's attorney's office Pagliuka at the
43:57
direction of the grand jury, though, right, Schultz, subjective form
44:00
and the foundation. Ricari, I don't know. Again, I don't know, Pagliuka.
44:06
I would like to talk a little bit about the house. Okay,
44:09
can you tell me when the surveillance began. Answer? It
44:13
would have started under Detective Pagane and gone through He
44:17
gets interrupted here by Pagliuca, the entire investigation. Then Racari
44:22
answers pretty much trash pulls. We stopped the actual physical
44:26
surveillance sometime during the investigation, but it would have started
44:29
under Pagan Pagliuka. Okay, do you recall in what well
44:34
how was surveillance conducted? If you recall Ricari I didn't
44:39
conduct it personally. No, that would have been under a
44:42
plane clothes unit team. They would have sent out a
44:45
vehicle and recorded vehicles coming and going, and actual physical surveillance, Pakliuka.
44:52
So physical surveillance means eyes on the property correct answer, right, Pakliuka.
44:58
And eyes on the property by a police officer or
45:00
correct answer correct, Pakliuka. And that police officer would be
45:05
charged with the obligation of recording the incoming and outgoing
45:09
of people to the property. Correct answer correct, Pakliuka. Is
45:15
there a log that's maintained during surveillance? Answer I'm not
45:19
sure who if there was a log or not. I
45:21
know that they set up a vehicle with cameras facing
45:24
facing Epstein's residents Pakliuka. And so these were video cameras
45:30
answer correct, Pakliuka. And so whoever was coming and going?
45:34
Whenever an officer saw somebody coming or going, they would
45:38
videotape that person. Is that correct answer? Or they would
45:43
just leave the video rolling time lapse. Question. And did
45:46
you have the opportunity to observe any of that video? Riccari.
45:51
I did observe a couple, but the person who actually
45:54
set it up would review it and then submit a
45:56
supplement to the report. Pakliuka. Okay, It's true that none
46:00
of the video of the surveillance led to the identification
46:04
of Glenn Maxwell, as coming or leaving the house during
46:07
the time of surveillance. Correct, Miss Schultz object to the
46:11
form and the foundation. Ricary, I don't know. I didn't
46:14
see all the videos, so I can't. I can't attest
46:17
to that, Pagliuka. Okay, did anybody report to you that
46:21
miss Maxwell was seen coming or going? Schultz object to
46:25
form and foundation. Ricary, I don't recall, Pagliuca. If someone
46:31
had reported to you that miss Maxwell was seen coming
46:34
or going, you would have recorded it in your Palm
46:36
Beach Police Department Incident Report, Exhibit number one. Correct, Miss Schultz,
46:41
objective form and foundation, Pagliuca. I would have told the
46:45
officer who was conducting the surveillance or reviewing the video
46:49
to document it in the supplements, Pagliuca. And there is
46:52
no documentation in the supplement of Miss Maxwell either coming
46:56
or going from mister Epstein's house during this time frame. Correct,
47:01
Miss Schultz object to the form. Riccary. I don't believe, so,
47:05
I don't. I don't. I don't believe so, Pakliuka. And again,
47:09
so we're on the same page. When you say I
47:12
don't believe, so, I interpret that as you saying no.
47:15
Then again we have another jump here from page two
47:18
fifteen all the way down to page two forty one. Pakliuka,
47:23
and none of these individuals was employed as a massage
47:26
therapist at the time of their alleged involvement with mister Epstein.
47:30
Correct Ricary, correct Pakliuka. Each of these individuals, as I recall,
47:36
claim to have been paid directly by mister Epstein or
47:39
Miss Kellen. Correct, Miss Schultz object to the form and
47:43
the foundation, mister Riccary, correct Pakliuka. Most often these individuals,
47:49
these seventeen individuals were paid directly by mister Epstein. Correct,
47:53
Miss Schultz, object to the form and the foundation. Riccary,
47:57
mister Epstein or Sarah Kellen And just interject here once again,
48:01
Sarah Helen's names brought up as somebody directly involved and
48:05
no investigation. She's not brought in. She's not facing charges.
48:09
Ask yourselves, why Pakliuka? Okay? None of these individuals identify
48:14
Miss Maxwell as someone who was paying them money. Correct,
48:18
Miss Schultz, objective form and foundation Ricary. I don't believe so. No, Pagliuca,
48:25
and each of these individuals identified receiving cash correct, Miss
48:29
Schultz object to the form Rocary correct Pagliuca. Each of
48:33
these individuals claim varying amounts, generally between two hundred and
48:37
up to one thousand dollars. Correct Schultz, object to form rocary.
48:42
Correct Pagliuca. According to each of these individuals, mister Epstein
48:47
when the massage was over, would either hand them the money.
48:50
That happened according to these individuals, right, Miss Schultz object
48:54
to form roccary. At times, yes, mister Pagliuca or mister
48:59
Epstein had laid the money somewhere and directed them where
49:02
to go get it. Correct. We have another jump here
49:05
from page two forty two to page two fifty seven.
49:09
Pagliuka was clothing seized? Answer? I don't believe clothing was seized, Pagliuka.
49:16
To your knowledge, did you seize any property belonging to
49:19
Glenn Maxwell from the home? Miss Schultz object to the
49:22
Forum and the foundation, Riccary, I'm not sure, not to
49:25
my knowledge, Pagliuka. Okay, no one ever came up to
49:28
you and said, could you please return these items to
49:31
miss Maxwell? Correct Schultz, objective form Riccary. No, all right,
49:37
you did that with Janoush answer, yes, he had photos
49:41
and to this Racary's cut off by Pagliuca. But nothing
49:46
like that ever happened with miss Maxwell. Correct Schultz, object
49:49
to form Riccary. No, Now we're jumping a page two
49:53
fifty nine, Pagliuca. Anyway that you get contacted by a
49:58
police officer, if they put that into your database, it
50:01
will come up when you do the CAAD search. Correct answer, right, Pagliuka.
50:06
And that's all that came up with regard to miss
50:09
Maxwell was her name was somewhere in the system. Do
50:12
you know or not know miss Schultz? Objective form and foundation? Riccary,
50:17
I don't know, Pakliuka. Okay. And they're referencing a document
50:21
that was marked by the court reporter for identification as
50:25
deposition exhibit number twelve. Pagliuka, I've handed you what has
50:30
been marked as deposition exhibit number twelve, which I will
50:34
represent to you are the plaintiff in this case, Miss Roberts,
50:37
Rule twenty six disclosure. I want to just go through
50:40
this very quickly and ask you if you know any
50:43
of these individuals. So let's start with number one, Virginia Roberts.
50:48
Have you ever met Virginia Roberts Rocary, No, Pakliuka, have
50:54
you ever talked to her Ricary. I don't recall, Pagliuka.
50:58
Do you know what information that she may have that's
51:01
reference below, conducted in the subject of this action? Do
51:04
you have any knowledge of that, Miss O'Connor objective form
51:08
the witness? No, Pagliuka Number two, Glenn Maxwell, I'm going
51:12
to come back to her number three. Want a LESSI
51:14
you did interview mister Alessi correct Ricary, Yes, Pagliuka. I
51:20
have seen a transcript of that interview, and I have
51:23
seen exhibit number two, which is a transcript of the
51:26
interview with miss redacted. I want to ask you a
51:29
couple of questions about the transcription process. As I understand
51:33
your testimony previously, the electronic recordings are sent somewhere you
51:38
don't know where for transcription. Is that right, Miss Schultz?
51:42
Objective form? And again we have another jump here, and
51:44
this time we're moving to page two sixty. Pagliuka, have
51:48
you ever talked to her Ricary? I don't recall, Pakliuka.
51:52
Do you know what information she may have had that's
51:55
reference below? Conducted is the subject of this action? Do
51:58
you have any knowledge of that O'Connor objective form? Rocary No,
52:03
Pagliuca Number two, Glenn Maxwell, I'm going to come back
52:07
to her number three. Want a LESSI you did interview
52:09
mister Alessi correct answer, yes, Riccary. I have seen a
52:13
transcript of that interview, and I have seen exhibit too,
52:16
which is a transcript of the interview with mis redacted.
52:19
I want to ask you a couple of questions about
52:21
that transcription process. I understand your testimony previously. The electronic
52:26
recordings are sent somewhere, you don't know where for a transcription.
52:30
Is that right, miss Schultz? Objective form the witness. I
52:34
didn't request a new team to transcribe them. Then we
52:37
bounced to two seventy four different investigators. Mister Black uses
52:42
in a particular calendar year. Do you Schultz objective form? Roccary, No, Pagliuca,
52:49
And so you don't know whether mister Black's association with
52:52
this law firm was in connection with mister Epstein's case
52:55
or some other case. Do you miss Schultz objective formcar Sorry?
53:00
I worked this case, nothing, nothing but this case for
53:03
an entire year. This was my only case for a year. Pagliuka, Okay,
53:08
that's it, Ricary, Well, if it walks like a duck
53:12
Schultz objection. Pakliuka. Okay, So we're finished with Dershwitz. Keep
53:16
on going, Ricary number twenty eight obviously, Pakliuka, okay. And
53:22
you've talked about her Ricary, right, Pakluka, And again she's
53:27
never discussed Kalayn Maxwell with you. Correct say goodbye, And
53:31
then here we have another jump, and this time it's
53:34
going to page two seventy eight, Pagliuka. Right, So you're
53:37
seventy five. So I want you, I want you to
53:39
take a moment and read what's under seventy five. Detective
53:43
Roccary was the chief investigator of the crimes committed at
53:47
Jeffrey Epstein's Palm Beach mansion. Is that true? Schultz objective
53:50
form Riccary, yes, Pagliuca, and has information about Kalayn Maxwell
53:56
and Jeffrey Epstein's sexual trafficking conduct and interaction with under minors.
54:01
Tell me everything that you believe you know about Glenn
54:03
Maxwell's sexual trafficking conduct, Miss Schult subjective form the witness,
54:08
I don't, Pakluka. So that's inaccurate. Then, I mean you
54:12
have no knowledge about Glanne Maxwell sexually trafficking anybody? Do you?
54:16
Miss schult s objective form ricary, not with not with
54:20
the girls that I spoke with, No, Pakluka. But that's
54:25
your investigation, right, ricary, Right, Pagliuka Okay, ricary. Right, let's
54:32
see seventy six Pakliuka. Okay. And you've talked about her,
54:36
whatever happened to her? Do you know Michel subjective form?
54:40
Pagliuca Helly Robson Ricary, No, Pagliuka. She was never charged,
54:46
does I understand it? Correct? Ricary Correct, Pagliuca. And after
54:51
you spoke to her in connection with your investigation, did
54:54
you ever speak to her again? Ricary? No, Pakluka Okay. Ricary.
55:00
David Rodgers seventy seven Pakliuka. And you know him because
55:04
he was identified as one of the pilots for mister Epstein. Right, ricary, right, kay.
55:11
And you're a peace officer obligated to arrest when a
55:14
felony is committed in your presence correct ricary Correct, Pagliuca.
55:19
And the possession of child pornography is a felony correct
55:23
ricary correct Pakliyuka. And had you seen any child pornography
55:28
in mister Epstein's house when you were there installing these cameras,
55:32
you would have done something about it, correct, mister Schultz,
55:35
object to form rocary. Right, Pagliuka, You wouldn't just walked
55:40
out and said nice picks, have a nice day, correct ricary.
55:44
Correct Pakliuka. So is it fair to say the entire
55:47
time you were in Epstein's house, whether it's two thousand
55:50
and two, two thousand and three, you did not observe
55:53
any child pornography? Right? Schultz, object to the form ricary.
55:58
Not in the area as I was in Pagliuca. You
56:01
don't recall seeing any pictures of naked women, do you?
56:03
Schultz object to the form rocary. Again, I was only
56:07
confined to where that desk was. That's where I set
56:10
up the camera, and then after it was set up,
56:12
I left Pagliuka. Okay, But again, all I'm asking you
56:16
is wherever you were, you didn't see any pictures of
56:19
naked women? Answer right, No, I didn't see any, Pagliuka.
56:24
And at the time, you recall that he had the
56:26
surveillance cameras already installed. Is that true? Other cameras, the
56:30
clock cameras, Schultz objective form roccary. I'm not sure if
56:35
he had the cameras installed or not. I can't recall, Pagliuca.
56:39
Why would he need cameras if he already had cameras?
56:43
And again we're taking a jump here, and this time
56:45
we're jumping to page three hundred. None of these alleged
56:49
victims claim to have ever traveled with mister Epstein, Correct,
56:54
Miss Schultz, objective form Rocary, No, Pagliuca, No, they did not.
56:59
They did not travel with mister Epstein. Right, Schultz object
57:03
to form Riccary. I don't believe so, No, Pagliuca. None
57:07
of them reported that to you, Ricary not reported, correct, Pagliuca.
57:12
None of them reported to you that they ever spent
57:14
the night with mister Epstein, did they? Schultz object to
57:17
form Riccary. I don't believe so, Pagliuca. None of them
57:22
ever reported being trafficked by mister Epstein to other men,
57:25
correct Schultz, objective form and foundation the witness. I don't
57:29
believe so, Pagliuca. The only other men that any of
57:33
these alleged victims, the only men that any of these
57:37
alleged victims ever claimed to have had any contact with
57:40
that was sexual in nature, was mister Epstein. Correct, Miss
57:44
Schultz objective form and foundation, Ricary, Yes, Pagliuca, Okay, none
57:50
of these alleged victims ever claimed to have had been
57:52
sent to another location to have sex with another man. Correct, Schultz,
57:57
objective form and foundation, Ricari. I don't believe if so, Pagliuca,
58:02
meaning my statement is correct? Is that right, Miss Schultz
58:05
objective form. Pagliuca, I'm just trying to he gets interrupted
58:10
by Riccari here, meaning I don't believe they've ever said that.
58:13
I don't recall any of them ever saying it, Pagliuca.
58:17
Had they claimed that they were sent somewhere else to
58:20
have sex with another man, you would have followed up
58:22
on that, correct Schultz objective form, Ricary, Correct, Pagliuca. And
58:27
none of them ever claimed to have been sent to
58:29
another location to give another man a massage, correct, miss Schultz,
58:33
objective form. Riccary. No, not the victims, Pagliuka, Right, That's
58:38
who I'm talking about, Riccary. I believe Ordacta did. Pagliuca,
58:43
who was an adult, right, Schultz objective form, Riccary, Right, Pagliuka,
58:48
we covered this. I believe none of them ever was
58:51
on mister Epstein's airplane, correct, Schultz, objective form riccary. I
58:55
believe one of the victims were, but not on the
58:58
private island. Think they went. They didn't go to a
59:01
private island. They went on some other trip. Pagliuca. I
59:05
think you may be referring to Ah who went to
59:09
New York but on a commercial flight. Does that jog
59:11
your memory? Miss Schultz, objective form ricary, No, Pagliuka, okay,
59:16
do you recall who it is? Ricary? It would have
59:19
been FP. Pakliuka, Okay. So FP was on mister Epstein's airplane. Schultz,
59:26
objective form ricary. I believe so, Pagliuca. Would that be
59:31
reflected in Exhibit one, Schultz, objective form ricary. But she
59:35
flew alone. It wasn't like Epstein was there. She went
59:38
someplace else, not to his private island. Nothing to do
59:41
with Epstein. It was something she wanted to do, and
59:44
I think she flew on the plane, but it was
59:46
like by herself Pagliuca alone, Ricary, right, Pakluka with a
59:52
pilot ricary right, Schultz, objective form. Pagliuca. None of the
59:59
alleged victim in your investigation claim to have gone to
1:00:02
the Caribbean island of Little Saint James. Correct, Miss Schultz,
1:00:05
objective form riccary, No, Pagliuka no, meaning they never went there.
1:00:10
Correct Schultz, objective form riccary, not that I'm aware of Pagliuka.
1:00:16
None of the alleged victims ever went to mister Epstein's
1:00:19
New York residence to your knowledge, Correct Schultz, the objective
1:00:23
form ricary, not that I'm aware of Pagliuca. None of
1:00:27
them ever reported that to you, Miss Schultz, objective form riccary. No, Pakluka, okay,
1:00:34
And none of them ever claimed to have ever been
1:00:37
outside the country with mister Epstein ever. Correct Miss Schultz,
1:00:40
object to the form riccary, not that I'm aware of Pagliuka.
1:00:44
Can we go off the record for a second. So
1:00:47
they go off the record for a second. Then they
1:00:49
come back and Pakluka is still asking questions. Can you
1:00:52
take a look at Exhibit four, please? Ricary which one
1:00:55
is for Pakliuka? For is the true copy? That's it?
1:01:00
Says it at the top Exhibit four, six pages ricary, Yes, Pakliuka,
1:01:06
do you have that recary? Yes, Sir Pagliuka. There's yellow
1:01:09
highlighting on the exhibit that's in front of you. Do
1:01:12
you know how it got there? Riccary, you know Pagliuka.
1:01:16
And there's a there's a number number item numbers. Do
1:01:20
you see that on the left column. And unfortunately that's
1:01:24
where the deposition cuts off. All right, folks, that's gonna
1:01:27
do it for the deposition of Joseph Riccari, the lead
1:01:31
detective during the initial investigation down in Valm Beach. All
1:01:36
of the information that goes with this episode can be
1:01:39
found in the description box Hey