Latest / The Joe Rogan Recap / Palmer Luckey (2025) - VR, Defense and Technology's Future

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Palmer Luckey (2025) - VR, Defense and Technology's Future · The Joe Rogan Recap

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. Hey there.
• 0:02
  Yeah, we just listened to JRE Tag 2394 with Palmer Luckey.
• 0:06
  Quite the journey. It really was.
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  I mean it jumped from building waterproof computers for like
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  float tanks. Right.
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  And then straight into AI, piloting fighter jets and the
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  whole future of global conflict. It covers a lot.
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  It does, and for you listening, this is really where you see
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  consumer tech stuff you might even own smashing right into
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  high stakes national security. Exactly.
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  So the goal of this deep dive is really to unpack how fast these
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  worlds are, well, colliding. Right.
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  Our mission is to show you that collision, and the aha moment
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  for you, hopefully, is seeing how these foundational tech
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  ideas think VR headsets for fitness are being rapidly
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  transformed. Yeah, into tools that are
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  basically defining tomorrow's defense and global competition,
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  too. OK, let's untack this.
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  So it kicked off with this concept that honestly sounds
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  like science fiction, but isn't float tank computing.
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  I know I had to rewind that bit. Someone is actually trying to
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  build a whole rig. Waterproof keyboard, Waterproof
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  mouse, which they said was the hardest part.
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  Yeah, something about the laser sensor underwater.
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  Right. And AVR headset?
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  Yeah, all of it designed so you can code or game while you're
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  just floating in salt water. The idea isn't just about being
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  comfy though, it's about total immersion, right?
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  And getting maximum mental bandwidth.
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  How so? Well the argument is that these
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  float tanks are so relaxing 0 distractions that your brain
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  literally stops processing physical stuff like you don't
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  feel your clothes or the chair you're usually sitting in.
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  So less sensory input means more brain power for thinking or for
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  the VR? That's the theory.
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  Freeing up computational power, as they put it.
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  Forgetting your body exists to enhance immersion.
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  It's kind of the ultimate productivity hack by just
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  subtracting reality. Wild to think this is where the
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  path to, you know, advanced defense tech sort of begins.
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  In a giant tub. And that whole quest for
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  immersion, it leads you straight to the Oculus story, modern VR
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  basically. Yeah, the timeline mentioned was
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  pretty nuts. Palmer Luckey building
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  prototypes at like 1415. Had the first RIFF prototype at
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  16, founded Oculus at 18, then the big sale to Facebook.
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  But the breakout moment, the serendipity.
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  Yeah, that was the John Carmack story.
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  It sounded like a movie plot point.
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  Totally a crazy the universe moment.
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  I think Lucky called it Carmack. His childhood hero finds him on
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  some Internet forum. Tries the Rift prototype.
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  And just declares of the best VR experience the world has ever
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  seen. Boom.
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  That validation changed everything, didn't.
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  It instantly put Oculus on the map, got them talking to Sony,
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  all the big players, and then Carmack actually leaves seed
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  software to become a CTO at Oculus.
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  That's. Huge shows you how like open
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  source passion can really shake things up.
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  Absolutely. And it wasn't just game that
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  changed, it also blew up that old myth about gaming being
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  totally sedentary. Right, the fitness angle.
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  They gave some solid examples. Oh yeah, Beat Saber, they talked
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  about it. Not just as fun but as a genuine
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  full body workout. Coordination training too.
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  Burns way more calories than you know, older motion games.
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  And the boxing games they mentioned, Creed by Sergio
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  specifically, called it a really good workout.
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  And interestingly, the founders of that studio people Lucky knew
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  from his Army research lab days. So that connection was already
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  there, blending entertainment with like, serious physical or
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  even cognitive training from the start.
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  Exactly. That little community was always
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  blurring those lines. OK, so that blend gaming,
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  fitness, serious training, that feels like the perfect bridge to
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  the military side of VR. It really is.
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  They mentioned combat athletes used Logan Paul and Jake Paul as
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  examples. Actually are already using VR
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  for training. But the really wild part was the
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  AI emulation idea for sparring. Right.
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  Imagine programming the exact moves, the faints, the defenses
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  of someone like Canelo Alvarez or Sugar Ray Leonard.
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  And sparring against this perfect digital ghost of a
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  champion who never gets tired. Precisely.
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  And it goes beyond virtual. They talked about physical
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  robots as sparring partners. Robots.
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  Why? Because they can be controlled
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  with unbelievable precision using sensors, a robot could
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  pull its punch a millimeter from your face.
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  You train against the speed, the terror, the real thing, but
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  without the brain damage. Wow.
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  That's a level of control a human just can't manage.
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  Not even close. OK, and here's where it gets
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  really interesting. Connecting that AI potential
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  directly to actual conflict. This is the AI fighter jet part.
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  Yep. The US Air Force is developing
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  its first fully AI powered fighter jet.
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  The designation is FQ 44. The Q is for unmanned.
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  And this is the loyal wingman concept they talked about.
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  Exactly. Picture 1.
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  One human pilot in an F35 flying alongside five of these AI
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  controlled FQ 40 fours. OK, but what's the radical
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  shift? It's more than just drones,
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  right? It's a whole different
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  philosophy of tactics. Human pilots fundamentally want
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  to survive. They want to come home.
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  Makes sense. AI pilots don't have that
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  instinct. They can execute maneuvers that
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  are just way too risky, maybe even suicidal for a person.
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  Wait, you're saying if a mission objective like taking out a key
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  enemy radar have a say 5050 chance of destroying the AI jet?
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  But guarantees 100% mission success.
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  The AI program take that chance. Yeah, every single time.
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  That's the idea. It's pure mission utility
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  completely unburdened by self preservation.
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  It opens up tactics that are just unthinkable with a human in
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  the cockpit. Aggressive doesn't even begin to
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  cover it. That's profound.
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  And this kind of leap isn't just in the air, right?
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  They talked about ground troops, too.
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  The eagle eye helmet. Yeah, and significantly
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  developed outside the usual slow government procurement channels.
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  This thing sounds incredible. It fuses night vision, thermal
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  vision. Signals intelligence too.
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  Yeah, like detecting cellphones. Exactly.
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  Cellphones. Radios and gunshot rotation data
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  all integrated into augmented reality glasses.
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  OK, so the soldier sees all this overlaid on their vision.
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  Yes, but the real breakthrough is the hive mind capability they
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  described. Hive mind, What does that mean?
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  It means if one person or drone connected to the network sees an
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  enemy, even if that enemy is hidden behind a wall or inside a
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  container from your perspective. Everyone on the network sees the
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  target location instantly in their AR display.
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  Instantly shared real time tactical awareness.
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  It's a massive advantage and. And even the helmet design is
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  about new threats, modular parts.
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  Right, because it needs to be field repairable, but also
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  because of specific threats like directed energy weapons, lasers.
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  Lasers meant to blind soldiers. Who's developing those?
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  China was specifically mentioned, so the helmet needs
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  these modular mission Shields that can be swapped out quickly
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  to protect against different and probably evolving laser
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  frequencies. It's an arms race at the
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  material science level too. And you know the motivation
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  behind building this kind of efficient modular tech,
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  especially from private companies like Endoral.
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  It came directly from seeing the incredible waste in traditional
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  defense spending. Right.
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  They mentioned Endoral's mission was literally to save taxpayers
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  hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
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  Huge sums and they gave examples like the Secretary of the Army
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  Dan Driscoll apparently calling out ridiculously expensive gear
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  that could be replaced with like 10 dollar 3D printed parts.
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  And killing massive programs that were already obsolete.
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  Yeah, the robotic tank program was one example.
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  Why spend billions on a tank that a cheap $300 commercial
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  drone could instantly destroy? The tech had just outpaced the
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  bureaucracy. It's interesting how they framed
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  the timing of this, connecting it loosely to that whole data
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  science push sometimes associated with the Doge
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  phenomenon online. Yeah, the point made in the
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  discussion was that this cultural moment weirdly gave
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  officials psychic permission, as they put it, to finally be
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  honest about internal waste. Like it suddenly became OK to
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  say this program is a boondoggle when it might have been
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  politically impossible before. Exactly.
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  Which naturally leads to the bigger question about structure
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  and efficiency. Should national security be
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  handled by competing groups? They use the USPS versus UPS
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  analogy, right? Monopoly versus competition.
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  Right. Competition obviously drives
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  innovation and cuts costs, but there's a serious warning there
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  too. You can't end up with a
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  corporate E ocracy. Precisely.
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  Tech CEO's, however brilliant, shouldn't be setting US foreign
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  policy or military strategy. They are accountable to voters.
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  That's a fundamental danger. And that accountability is
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  critical when you pivot to the China challenge, the discussion
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  revealed. Andrill operates internally with
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  a policy called China 27. Which basically means they're
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  working under the assumption that China might make a move on
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  Taiwan around 2027. And the predicted strategy
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  wasn't necessarily an immediate invasion, more subtle.
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  Yeah, the boiling the frog approach.
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  Yeah, using things like blockades, maybe citing export
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  taxes or resource controls to economically strangle Taiwan
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  without starting a full blown kinetic war.
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  Trying to stay below the threshold for direct U.S.
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  Military involvement. Right.
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  And the huge, huge problem for the US in that situation,
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  according to the source, is our industrial capacity or lack
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  thereof. They said Taiwan is currently
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  $20 billion behind on arms deliveries they've already
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  ordered from the US 20. Billion.
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  That's just a staggering figure. It highlights that the US
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  basically can't function as the world's gun store anymore.
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  We just don't make enough stuff, not just for allies like Ukraine
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  or Taiwan, but even to replenish our own stockpiles adequately.
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  And this loops back to manufacturing capacity itself
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  being a weapon, a core asset in war.
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  The argument presented was that part of China's industrial
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  strategy, especially in sectors like automotive, is aimed at
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  weakening or even eliminating US manufacturing.
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  Because in World War 2, the US won partly by converting car
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  factories into making tanks and planes.
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  Exactly. If that industrial base
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  disappears, the ability to sustain a long conflict just
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  evaporates. And China builds that capacity
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  differently with civil military fusion.
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  Right. So a huge commercial car ferry,
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  for instance, is required by law to be built to military
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  specifications. So it looks civilian, but it's
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  ready to be drafted into military service immediately.
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  Yep, creates this massive ghost fleet of transport and logistics
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  assets ready on day one. OK.
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  So we've got these massive geopolitical and industrial
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  challenges, but the conversation then took another turn into
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  things that are just hard to pin down, deception, perception.
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  Yeah, it leads you right into the whole UAP discussion.
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  Unidentified Aerial phenomena the.
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  Big challenge there as they described it is verification
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  right? Getting solid proof.
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  It really is. Often these things only show up
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  on one sensor system, like radar or visual, but not both, and
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  spoofing a single sensor is relatively easy.
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  Subjective proof. Incredibly difficult still.
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  There was some intriguing stuff mentioned, that Hellfire missile
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  footage where the object seems to break apart but keeps going.
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  Yeah, that. Was weird.
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  And the Virginia Brazil story from the 90s.
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  Oh. Right.
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  The alleged wounded alien and the police officer who handled
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  it dying from some bizarre super resistant infection.
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  Pretty. Disturbing anecdote.
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  And then you have the USO reports unidentified submersible
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  objects off the California coast.
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  The Catalina. Channel stuff things apparently
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  entering and exiting the water at crazy speed, steep angles
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  without. Sonic booms without the expected
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  heat signatures. Physics defying basically, which
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  led. To the really out there theories
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  beyond just aliens from space. Exactly.
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  Contrasting conventional extraterrestrials with, as they
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  put it, truly bizarre possibilities.
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  Time travellers, visitors from parallel dimensions, or even a.
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  Hidden breakaway civilization right here on Earth.
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  Yeah, these. Highly advanced groups operating
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  outside our awareness. It really stretches your concept
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  of what's possible and that. Difficulty in discerning
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  physical reality It raises a huge question, doesn't it?
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  What about our control over cultural reality?
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  When things get murky, that's a great.
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  Connection The discussion brought up the trend in the UK
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  thousands of arrests for offensive content posted online.
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  That seems like a pretty. Direct form of cultural control
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  limiting speech. It does.
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  There was that anecdote about her British colleague who
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  literally wanted company rules stating you couldn't offend
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  anyone. It pushes discourse towards this
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  very narrow safe space and where is.
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  This discourse happening on the Internet, which led to dead
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  Internet theory, Yeah. The idea that the web isn't
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  mostly people anymore that's increasingly bought astroturfed
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  campaigns. Basically just propaganda tools
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  they cited. An estimate that maybe 80% of
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  Internet traffic is bots. That's staggering of true it,
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  really. IS, and you can even view this
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  through an economic lens, tying it back to corporate behavior.
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  They touched on zero RP, the zero interest rate period right
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  when? Money was basically free for
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  companies to borrow. Exactly.
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  And when capital is that cheap, the pressure for immediate
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  profit drops off. Efficiency can become secondary,
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  so. Companies could afford to chase
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  like social goals instead of just making the best product.
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  That was the Bud Light dilemma reference.
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  That was the. Connection made Yeah, A culture
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  where sometimes pursuing political or social aims within
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  a corporation using its capital became more appealing than just
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  innovating or improving the core business, like choosing
• 13:17
  Starbucks's priorities over Mountain Dew's focus on the
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  product. It's like the.
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  Feedback loop gets broken. Yeah, if money's free and the
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  Internet might be fake, who are you even marketing to, right?
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  You end up divorced from your actual customers.
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  It makes reading the market signals almost as hard as
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  figuring out what that block on the radar really is.
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  Hashtag tag, tag outro. Wow.
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  OK, so this deep dive really hammered home just how fast
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  everything is converging high tech VRAI.
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  Yeah, and. Smashing right into military
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  thinking. Global strategy strategy
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  challenging everything we saw. AI pilots making these cold,
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  calculated risk decisions. That eagle eye helmet with its
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  shared battlefield vision. It feels like technology is
• 13:58
  outpacing doctrine. Definitely.
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  And the thread weaving through all of it, from defense waste to
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  Uaps to bots online, seems to be this growing difficulty.
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  Difficulty in knowing what's real, what's true, who to trust,
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  who's accountable. It really.
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  Does feel like a crisis of perception on multiple levels.
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  That crisis isn't limited to humans.
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  The discussion ended on a really fascinating, almost
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  philosophical note about whales. And dolphins, Yeah.
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  Suggesting that maybe non human species, because of their long
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  life spans and stable environments might actually hold
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  better lore, better historical knowledge of earth than we do so
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  if. AI manages to crack interspecies
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  communication. Wasn't there an X prize mention
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  for that? There was.
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  If that happens, what could we learn?
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  What kind of deep history, what perspective on time or Uaps or
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  Earth itself might be waiting in the minds of whales or dolphins?
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  A nonhuman. Historical record.
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  That's definitely something for you to Mull over.