Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.346: Understanding Skin Discoloration ft. Jan Marini

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E.346: Understanding Skin Discoloration ft. Jan Marini · Skin Anarchy

0:48
SPEAKER_02: This is such a special episode with Jan Marini is back with us.
0:53
SPEAKER_02: And today we are going to be talking about discoloration.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, this is our fifth episode in the Jan Morini Masterclass series.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: I hope you guys have been loving all of the episodes and been learning from them because so far the feedback has been phenomenal.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so glad to hear some of you have really chimed in and told us that you've really learned a lot.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: So that that means a lot.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm so glad.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to welcome back Jan.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Jan, welcome back to the show.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Extra.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I am so happy to be back.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: I really look forward to this.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I look forward to this.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I always learn so much from you every single episode.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: So I'm very excited.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And discoloration, as many of you know that are listening, huge, huge problem for women of color.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's very hard to treat.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: So that's why Jan is going to teach us everything we need to know today.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: So let's get started.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, Jen, my first my first question for you is why is there such a focus on discoloration these days?
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, every single person on the face of the earth, if you've got skin by the age of 35, you're going to have abnormal pigmentation.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes earlier than that.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Now, let's just say you don't have necessarily obvious areas of contrasting discoloration, you'll have something called background pigment, also known as a tinic bronzing.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's if, you know, look at a picture of someone when they're 20, look at them again at 30 or 40 or 50, and you see the skin just doesn't have that same clarity and brightness and even tone.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: It actually can be a little muddy or almost look like it's just slightly tanned.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: And again, that's known as um background pigment or atinic bronzing.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: So this is an issue that affects everyone.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And I gotta tell you, they've done focus groups where they've shown individuals pictures of people that have fine lines and wrinkles, pictures of people that have uneven pigment, and they actually guess the individuals with the fine lines or excuse me, with the pigment as being older than the individuals with fine lines and wrinkles.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Wow, oh my gosh.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't I don't know.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: I I couldn't I couldn't say I would, you know, guess that, but that's crazy.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Now, what are like so wait, how are there like there are different types of discoloration, right?
3:15
SPEAKER_02: So you said that there's um, you know, the ones you just described, and then I wasn't thinking of like hyperpigmentation and that all that.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: So can you go through all of them?
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Like what are all the different types of discoloration?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm going to really, really simplify it because you know, people love to identify pigmentation, like to say, well, I've got melasmore, I've got chalasm, I've got solar litigenies or whatever.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: So at the very simplest, very simplest level, pigmentation, abnormal pigmentation is the result of the body producing um more pigment than it's able to eliminate.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Boils down to that.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, within that, the reason why I don't necessarily get into whether you have melasma, chlasma, or any of those kinds of things is because what determines whether or not you want to treat pigment or how you treat pigment, and that's the thing, is if you're concerned about pigment, you want it to go away or you want to lessen it, blend it in, is what type of pigment you have in terms of how it's going to react to various, whether it is laser treatments or topical treatments.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So I break it down into three types of pigment.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Now, one is epidermal, one is dermal, and one is mixed.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: And the way you actually can tell the difference and is is with a wood slamp.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, most of us don't have a wood slamp sitting around at home, but if you've ever been to, say, an esthetician or a skincare professional or maybe a dermatologist's office, um, they they probably have a wood slamp.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of like a black light.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And what a wood slamp does is you could have two areas of pigment on your face that look exactly the same on the surface.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: But if you look under a wood slamp, the epidermal pigment will show up.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: If one of them is dermal, it will disappear.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, why is that important?
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Because in order for you to make pigment, you have to have something called active tyrosinase.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Now, active tyrosinase is found in the epidermis.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: And essentially, if you didn't have active tyrosinase, you'd be an albino.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: So active tyrosinase is something that we focus on and we downregulate it with topicals, because again, it's a determining factor in how pigment is thrown off to the surface, etc.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, but also if we're dealing even with other types of modalities, um it's it's an important factor.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, guess what?
5:47
SPEAKER_00: If you are treating this topically, and there's some things you can do topically that are really, really dramatic, but if you're trying to treat it topically and you're spending a lot of money in all kinds of topicals, and you've got dermal pigment, you might as well be putting them on a tattoo.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Because the topical has to interact with active tyrosinase, and active tyrosinase is only found in the epidermis.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Now, the good news is most pigment is epidermal.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: But whether you have melasma, whether you have chalasma, whether you have solartigines, it doesn't matter.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: It can be either way, it could either be dermal or epidermal.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't really matter what pigment you have, it matters where it is.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And so if it and some people have mixed, and that means that maybe they mostly have epidermal, but they might have some dermal.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Good news is it's mostly epidermal pigment that we tend to see.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And there are things that you can do topically if you've got dermal pigment.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Reason it's good to know that is because why waste your money?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Dermal pigment you would need to treat with some type of either IPL intense pulse light, or there's various lasers out there that don't ablate the skin but are designed to go after the pigment.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, interesting.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: That's really wow, I didn't know that.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So dermal pigment is something that we so we have to go to a dermatologist to figure out if it's epidermal or dermal.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Or go to your skincare professional, your esthetician, they have a wood slide.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay, wow, that's really good to know.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Everyone listening out there, make sure you write that down because I did not know that.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so many times you're you you're spending so much money on these different lightning products when you go in.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: You could go in, and if it's germal treatment, you could have um a laser treatment, and typically maybe two or three, but like IPL, which is intensible slides, usually for the face, it's like maybe anywhere from two to three hundred per treatment, and you do typically three to five, spaced about four to six weeks apart, and then guess what?
8:02
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty much gone.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: So, and and again, you you know, within that there's other complexities that and ethnicity and hormonal kinds of issues and things like that, but it's just understanding how you treat it.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And again, most of the time we can treat it topically and get really dramatic results.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, that's that's the interesting part about it, is like really understanding where it is and how to get to it.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: I I love that you brought up the enzyme though, the kerosenase.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, uh you know, because this is stuff that people really need to start to understand and why the science is so important.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: So that's really, really interesting.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, now what is the best solution for discoloration?
8:46
SPEAKER_02: So, what if we we were to narrow it down?
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I always say you can do whatever you want, but this is non-negotiable.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So you want to do two things.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Now, number one, you want to get the pigment that's made its way to the surface out of the surface as quickly as possible.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: And so the skin immediately starts to look brighter, smoother, more even toned, more refined, and more reflective.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: And some of this is optical because if you're reflecting light away from the skin, you don't notice the imperfections.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It looks much more even.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: If the skin is kind of dull and dry, and you've got this pigment and the your the light is being absorbed into the surface, it's much more noticeable.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: You see these imperfections and they might even look worse than they are.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: So we do that number one with the skin care management system.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, the skin care management system addresses virtually almost any common skin concern you can think of.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And whether I'm working with a famous A-list celebrity, whether I'm working with a famous doctor, whoever I'm working with, they it always starts with a skin care management system because it's able to address so many of these different common skin concerns.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And the question that people would have would be, oh my gosh, how can we all be on the same system and and have different concerns?
10:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to give you an example.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: So in the system is a product called BioClear.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: And bioclear is a combination of glycolic, salicylic, and aslaic acid.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Now, aslaic acid is sold by prescription for acne, sold by prescription for rosacea.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the best resurfacing agents we've ever seen for the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's a pigment-lifting agent, so it brightens the skin, it makes it look much more even-toned.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Then you have glycolic acid.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: Glycolic acid at the very simplest level dissolves and dislodges the gluic substance or cellular cement between cells.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And when it does that, it's going to immediately help to get some of that pigment out of the surface.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: And it also is a resurfacing agent, so the skin just looks so much smoother, so much brighter, and it helps with the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: And because of its small molecular size, it goes into the follicle, your pore, and it dissolves and dislike as a glue-like substance in there or cellular cement.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's the beginning of the acne process.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Now there's a this is kind of it's kind of a separate subject that we can get to later, but one of the things that people have in terms of discoloration is leftover discoloration from acne.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: That's post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: That's different from the sun, but nevertheless, it's still just as annoying and disturbing.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And so when you prevent breakouts, then of course you are going to uh lessen having the post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: You're going to eliminate that.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: And then there's salicylic acid.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: And salicylic acid, we've all heard of that, but it kind of brightens the surface of the skin and it smooths the surface of the skin.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: So when you put those three together, I've never seen anything that perfects the surface and goes after so many different concerns.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: And in particular, again, it's really helpful for discoloration.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, then we get to the big guns.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: So the second piece of this is something called luminate face.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna spend a moment on this.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: So luminate face is actually a number of different technologies.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, the first one are a group of tyrosinase inhibitors.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about tyrosinase and it goes into the manufactured pigment.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: So what we want to do is we want to down-regulate that production of tyrosinase.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: And we do that with a number of things, uh, dipotassium glyciscerite, which is an extract that's in liquor, it's got some good medical data, and alphar butin and cogic acid and on and on.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, the second piece of the technology, and this is gets into where it's a real game changer.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: We all have a melanocyte stimulating hormone.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Now you could have really fair skin, or you could have lots of pigment in your skin, and pretty much we produce the same amount.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: We might produce more if we're on birth control, we might produce more if we're pregnant, but it's about the same.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: And it plays a role genetically in how you're going to react.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: So there are people that go out in the sun and they're outside for 10 minutes, they start to pigment.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: They sit in a hot car and they pigment.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: There's other people that don't have the same propensity.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: So for the first time, we have a peptide that out actually downregulates that melanocyte stimulating hormone.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: And you there?
13:50
SPEAKER_00: I can't hear you anymore.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: It actually downregulates.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Can you hear me?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Just a second.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: Let me make sure I'm can you hear me?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Can you hear me now?
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: You're back.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, sorry.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's start from the part where you were talking about people sitting can sit in a car and they can get pigment.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: They they they can sit in a car and they'll pigment.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: They'll be outside for five minutes, they'll start to pigment.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: And then there's others that don't have the same propensity.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: So for the first time, we have a peptide that downregulates that melanocyte stimulating hormone.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm gonna stop here for a moment because the study on this was actually presented in written up in the Journal of Drugs and Dermatology, which is a peer-reviewed journal, medical journal.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: It can take weeks, months, years to get into a peer-reviewed medical journal, and it's usually something that is felt to be of significance to the medical community.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So you typically you don't see skincare in there.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but in this case, this is a half-base study comparison to prescription hydrokinone, which is kind of the goal considered the gold standard, and we definitely outdid prescription hydrokinone.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: So the third technology is one that you know we've probably all we're all familiar with, um, but we may not think of it for this use, and that is turmeric.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, turmeric is a powerful tyrosase inhibitor, it's also anti-inflammatory, it's kind of good for acne too, and it's been used for centuries, particularly in places like India.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Put turmeric on the skin, and even in just a few days, you could start to see lightning if you know people were going to attend a big event or a wedding.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And the problem is that during that time, of course, your skin is bright yellow.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And they've tried to take turmeric, the root and pieces of turmeric, and maybe see if they could get that lightning effect.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: But for the first time, we've been able to take the actual active chemical and make it colorless.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: And finally, the piece data resistance is retinol.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, retinoids are a good gold standard, and I don't mean just any retinoid, but retinol, retinoic acid is a gold standard for pigmentation.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a gold standard for acne.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: It's um a gold standard for for anti-aging and just the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles and core size and texture.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm and and I'm gonna tell you guys why, because and this is so important.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, whether you have discoloration or you start to see aging changes like fine lines or a coarser texture, this is damage because it's been programmed in your skin, most of it before the age of 10.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: So it takes 10, 20, 30 years to show up.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you could have somebody who's two years old, ECTA, and they've got a pool in their backyard.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and from the time they're two years old until they go off to college, they're out there and they're sunbathing and they're playing in the water.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
17:11
SPEAKER_00: I bet nobody comes into the emergency room or the dermatologist's office and goes, you know, I'm 12 years old.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, look at all this pigmentation I have.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Even though they've had all the sun exposure.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So again, it takes years for this to actually show up, but it's it's programmed in there.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And so when we talk about that, your your genes are made up of DNA.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And some of your genes are expressive genes, so they express that information, and it's the only, it's like a blueprint, it's the information the body uses to do anything.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna repair something, get over a cold, your broken bone, um, anything like that, it's gonna look at those instructions.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And so the instructions just really are pretty much uncompromised when we're in the anabolic state, when we're growing and we're developing.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: We get to be 20 years old, we're kind of fully cooked, and we go into a catabolic state, and that's when it starts to show up very slowly that we don't repair the same way.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's when we start to see those aging changes.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, this is where a retin, the right retinoid, I don't mean just walking into the drugstore or the department store, but we're talking about um luminate, which has um the right retinoid in it, is that it has the ability to actually repair instructions coming from your DNA.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: And so your skin is functioning more like it did before you started having all of these issues showing up.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's so profound you could take two twin girls with identical DNA, have them on the same skincare program, and one is on a retinoid and one isn't, and one will look in 10 years, one will look 10 or 15 years younger than the other one.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: So you put this together in Luminate along with the skincare management system, and it's just such a superb solution for being able to address pigmentation.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: I really love that, and I love that you broke that down because that's so interesting to me that we, you know, we wait or you know, for basically aging process, I guess, to begin.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden you're seeing these changes occur.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: And that's when people are really kind of baffled and just confused, like, where do I go now?
19:33
SPEAKER_02: What do I do now?
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And so that's very important to understand.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, especially nowadays, because I think there's a lot more skincare lines coming out for like teenagers and just younger audiences, and it just makes me think, like, hmm, okay, that we should approach that from a preventative, you know, measure.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: So this is really, really cool stuff that you just told us about.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's it is it is preventative.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: There's so much we can do to prevent, but also, you know, skincare and everything we see on the internet and TikTok and is so seductive.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: It, you know, you hear all these promises, and lots of times they're non-specific.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it makes your skin smoother, it makes your skin somehow vaguely it's gonna make it look younger.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And really, it's about figuring out what it is you want to change or improve about your skin.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: People typically have three or four things, and then that's your runway.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: And you should be able to, or you should, select technologies that have some validation that they can actually address those concerns.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I always say think about how you'd feel about your skin if you're able to address every one of your concerns.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's really about sticking to the solutions that are going to focus on what you're concerned about.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: No, I completely agree with you, and also keeping in mind that, you know, yeah, okay, it's seductive, which you see on TikTok and reels and all this, but this isn't science, you guys.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, this is where science really matters, and you have to keep that in mind.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I don't think I can say that enough times on this podcast.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm hoping eventually it's going to sink into everyone's brain and they're just gonna just, you know, believe it.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that's a really great point that you made, Jan.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: And um, now my next question is what is the difference between melasma and cholasma?
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, one is the pretty much the same, but one you're pregnant and one you're not pregnant.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I think people get a mixed up, so but it doesn't really matter because you're going to address it the same way.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Now it's more difficult, there's it's more challenging if somebody is of childbearing age and they have the hormonal issue.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: But I can tell you we we address it all the time.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, also men can even get that kind of um, we think of that as being sort of female pigment, but um.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Men get that as well from time to time.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's it's this area or it's the forehead or it's a specific area of the face, but it's the the underlying factors for the most part are still all the same.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: So there's so you mentioned pregnancy.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: What is which what is the role of pregnancy?
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, so there's it's it's hormones, and you know, you have um various things that are going on during pregnancy that can exacerbate someone's tendency to pigment.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And there are people who go throughout their pregnancy and afterwards don't have melasma or chalasma.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if it it again it has to do with your genetic tendency, it has to do with hormones, it has to do with your personal makeup.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And so we can but we can we can address all that.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's really interesting.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I want to just throw a fun fact in here because you had mentioned um MSH earlier, and I I remember when I first learned this in medical school, I was like blown away.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: Was that uh President John F.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Kennedy actually had a condition that led to him always having a tan.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Adam's disease.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Adam's disease, yeah.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: And that's when you produce too much MSH because of the pituitary and stuff.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: So that's very it's it's cool to just like, you know, when you tie things together and you start seeing like, oh wow, okay, that this is how science works, you know.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: That's the that's the cool part.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting that you mentioned that because um on my YouTube channel uh before COVID, one of the things on the YouTube channel is I did lots and lots, filmed lots and lots of consultations in person.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And one of the individuals uh that I consulted with on YouTube um had Addison's disease.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And so she was concerned because it's it would be, you know, it's one thing if you say, gee, I just look like I have this great tan, but it's kind of um, it's not exactly the same color as a natural tan.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: And for her, she just felt like there was a kind of a yellowish undertone that she didn't like, and I knew that we wouldn't be able to make it go away, but we significantly lessened it with skincare management and luminate.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's a that's really impressive.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: The fact that you're able to combat something like that.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: That wow, that's really that's mind blowing.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm just sitting here thinking about like the physiology and the mechanism behind Addison's, and yeah, that that's that's really interesting.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: It just helped it out.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: It just made her look more normally, the the text more normal, and she looked brighter and and smoother and more of a glow as opposed to just sort of looking like this kind of muddy, um unusual looking color.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's yeah, that's still that's still very mind blowing.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's very cool.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so okay, next question.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: So um what about hypopigmentation?
25:02
SPEAKER_02: So people, you know, how is that different?
25:04
SPEAKER_02: The opposite direction.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so hypopigmentation is typically comes under the heading, unless there's maybe some other disorder going on, but it typically comes under the heading of vitiligo, which is an autoimmune disease, and that's where the body attacks your pigment cells.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: And there's different types of vitiligo, and you know, you it can be something like maybe you've seen somebody where they have a big white spot on their hand, and it just pretty much is limited to there, and that's vitiligo, or sometimes where we there's a famous model today, and she's really popular, and she has pretty extensive vitiligo just kind of all over her face and a lot of her body, and she's very spotted.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then so that is something where you can even out the darker areas.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I there's no way I can't make your pigment come back, but you can kind of blend it in a little bit better because sometimes the areas where you are pigmented, maybe they're a little overpigmented or they're a little darker from sun exposure.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: So you could even it out slightly, but you're not going to bring back the pigment now.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: The question then becomes well, is there a way to bring back pigment?
26:11
SPEAKER_00: And there are several things that you can do.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Now, there's an I believe there's a new medication for non-segmental vitiligo.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: I think I said that right.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I believe it is a it might even be a topical, I'm not sure certain, but you there's some hope out there.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: The other thing is that there are the traditional treatments for vitiligo, which involve UV light and things like that, but also there are lasers.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: And uh, one of the first lasers in this category was eczemer, and what it does is that it actually has the ability to bring back some pigment, and it kind of blends everything in.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: If it's not perfect, it still makes it so it's much less noticeable.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, the catch is that it's not permanent, so you you have several laser treatments and you get to a point where maybe it's more blended, but that means you still are going to have to come back periodically and maybe have a treatment just to keep it up, and then finally, for very small areas that you want to blend, tattooing, flesh-colored tattooing is amazing in the right house.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely amazing, because you can again just kind of blend it in beautifully.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, I knew somebody that had vitiligo, it was all the way around her forehead, but it was only about, I'm gonna say, maybe half an inch, just this whole area.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And by blending that to her into her forehead and kind of up into her hairline, I mean, you you really could not tell that she suffered from vitiligo.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there are things that you can do, but it's not like having discoloration.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: We can't, you know, we can't just we can't bring it back without medical intervention.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's really interesting.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know uh skin tattooing was a thing.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: That was that's so crazy.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: They do, you know, in the right hands, for example, yeah.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Some of if anybody's ever watched that um television show on television called Botched with the two classics, yeah.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they do a lot of breast construction, reconstruction, and they actually can tattoo nipples and areola that looks so incredibly realistic and three-dimensional.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: But you can get with with the pigments, they're so varied, and you can get the sort of flesh tone in there, just like they, you know, they do things like people that have eyeliner tattooed on, or they even have maybe very like nice pink lipstick or something like that.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: But you can get the flesh tones as well to blend it.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Again, you want to go to somebody who is a medical tattooist.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, someone professional.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's interesting.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know about that.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Now, what about okay?
28:59
SPEAKER_02: So I know we had lightly touched on this earlier about the acne part, but what about you know, the discoloration that's left over from acne?
29:07
SPEAKER_02: I think this is one of the biggest concerns that I always hear about, you know, from our listeners.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: So and you know, it's it it is, it's really frustrating because maybe you clear your acne up, but from a distance you've got all this discoloration and it can maybe look like you still have acne.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: And that discoloration, depending on your skin pigment, can vary.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: So if you're fair skin, it might be reddish for a while, but if you have more pigment, it can be brownish, purplish, even blackish.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: It can take a long time to go away.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Now, number one, the first thing you want to do is you want to prevent the breakouts.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Then you don't have to worry about the discoloration.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: That's number one.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Acne starts in the follicle.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Once you have a lesion, that's the end of the process.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So if you can prevent the breakout, we're not gonna have to worry about that discoloration.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And that would be done with the system and something called duality.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you have discoloration, how does it happen in the first place?
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, acne is where the follicle either leaks, ruptures, or blow out.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: So the material that's in the follicle, which is dead cells and C acne bacteria, and um inflammatory kinds of issues, goes outside of the follicle, and as this makes its way to the surface, it's an inflammatory process.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And what it does is it disturbs little blood vessels along the way.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: And those blood vessels get leaky, they leak out the color that's in blood, bilirubin, verirubin, etc.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And so what happens is you're left with this pigmented area, and so it's different than the discoloration you get from the sun.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing I want to mention though, the sun can make it a lot worse.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: You've got to protect the skin and wear a sunscreen.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: So what you what if you're using the system and you're using duality, duality has something in it that gets it out of the skin about 300 times faster.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: That's number one.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Also, when you're using the system, it resurfaces the skin, so that helps to get rid of that leftover discoloration much more rapidly.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And finally, we've got something that um is a um, it's you use it occasionally, like two or three times a week, but it's a corrected pad that's a jar that has 30 pre-soaked pads, and that has something in it that works at that sort of point of the inflammatory process with the blood vessels, and it lessens that so significantly, and it helps to decrease the pigmentation so rapidly.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: It's probably something I that's it it helps better than anything I think I've ever seen, along with again clearing the skin and the system and duality.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow, that's really interesting.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: That you know, with acne, it's it's kind of the same approach.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of people use spot treatments for acne, and that just it drives me crazy because I'm like, you need to balance your skin, just balance the skin.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, um, in fact, when I do skincare myths, one of the things that I talk about is spot treatments and stickers.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Because stickers actually, unless you've got a really kind of a ripe pustule and it's a salicylic acid sticker, it might help slightly.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: But what stickers do is they occlude the surface of the skin.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Then you're kind of in a sense, the issues that are going on, um, you're you're not helping what's going on in the follicle.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: You may actually aggravate it, and sometimes it can turn a sort of a minimal or a medium type of lesion into a cyst, and a cyst is something that virtually always scars.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, people call the acne scarring, they they refer to it or the discoloration of scars, it's not a scar.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: A scar is an injury to the dermis, yeah, and so it's a depression, or it is a you know, when you see people that have ice pick scarring all over their face.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: It's much more difficult to address that than it is to address the discoloration.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: So the discoloration is not a scar, that's the good news.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: But you don't want to do these things that can actually cause the existing lesion to be a lot worse.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: And we can get, there's no cure for acne, but we can get to complete total clearing.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's that's the goal is to, you know, just get acne out of there, you know, and the lesions out of there.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: I mean, so many people on Reddit, I still, you know, I've told you before, Jan, I go on Reddit, you know, once in a while and I see people just so frustrated.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh my gosh, please go see the right person, you know.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: And many times you will have, I've I've literally just written down your name in the comments.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll write down Jammarine.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: Just go put that up, please.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's like getting rid of acne.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: You gotta treat your acne.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I I hear you.
34:01
SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, to your point about the stickers, even with band-aids, you know, I don't know how people don't understand this stuff and why these stickers became so huge.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Because even with band-aids, if you leave a band-aid on too much or too long, you're gonna notice your skin is like, you know what I mean?
34:16
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's retaining more water and it's not helping the healing process.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: You have to actually expose it to air, you have to let it heal.
34:22
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, band-aids are great because what they do, one of the things they do is they can protect it in the beginning, but they also occlude whatever topical you're using.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: So the topical maybe seeps in a little bit better, but um you're absolutely right.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: So my next question is um, you know, how does genetics play a role, you know, and ethnicity play a role in if in discoloration or if we even develop discoloration?
34:51
SPEAKER_00: So when we um talk about our pigment cells or melanocytes, or what we you just again to really simplify it, when you're talking about how pigment is made, um our pigment cells are are are kind of packaged.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: And so the darker your pigment cells are, and you you know you inherit your skin type, you inherit your pigment, you inherit the genetic tendency and all of those kinds of things.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: But when the pigment cells, the little darker they are, the more they have like a kind of almost like a sack around them, the more loosely they're packaged.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: So it's called packaging.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: And the fairer you are, the more tightly packaged your melanocytes are.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: The more loosely packaged melanocytes are, they tend to be more hyperactive.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: They tend to be more reactive to whether it's UV light, whether it is um hormonal kinds of things, all the things that might possibly stimulate pigment.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: And so your genetics definitely play a role.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are some people that their melanocytes are so reactive that if they work around really hot ovens, or maybe they work around in a in a factory where they're smelting iron or something like that, and just the intense heat will cause their pigment to be reactive.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: But one other thing that I want to mention the way that um the the way that active tyrosinase is stimulated is it's stimulated by UV light.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: So just normally, just for us to have normal pigment, UV light stimulates that.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: The minute that you walk outside the door, it doesn't matter whether you're outside for 10 seconds or whether you're outside for a half hour, the UV light begins to stimulate your pigment.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And one of the reasons why we produce more pigment is because it's our body's way of saying we're exposed to UV light and we need greater protection, and it's also a sign of damage, so that's why it's so important to wear sunscreen, sun protectant.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: And I want to tell you guys even if you're sitting in your house and you've got your drapes open and the sunlight is coming in, there's a recent study from UCLA that if you're sitting around all week and the sunlight is coming in, that's like a weekend on the beach staring up the up at the sun, sunbathing.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So I tell people you even want to wear you want to wear sunscreen even indoors.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: It's important to prevent that reaction, the trigger between the UV light and the tyrosinase.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense, actually, because I do know I know a lot of people do that.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: They'll open up all the windows of their house and they'll just be inside like, oh, I'm protected, I don't need anything.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, are you kidding me?
37:50
SPEAKER_02: Do you see sunlight coming in?
37:52
SPEAKER_02: That means you need to be protected.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, okay.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: So what what about medications then?
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, uh are can medications, topical products cause discoloration instead of helping it.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, there are certain drugs and certain topicals that could aggravate it or could be a causative factor.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you an example.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh you prescribe, I'm sure you prescribe all the time, things like tetracycline and doxycycline and tetracyclines and all that, and they have a warning on there, talks about sun exposure.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: And what it is is it causes sun sensitivity in that particular case.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to define sun sensitivity.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times people will say, Oh, retinoids cause sun sensitivity.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: That is not true.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: They do not.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Sun sensitivity is a chemical reaction with UV light, and it's different than anything you've experienced.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: I had it happen to me years ago.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: You could be wearing a great sunscreen and you're outside in the sun and you will fry to a crisp.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: I ended up in the emergency room.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: So that's very different than what we, you know, that just saying, well, gee, I'm a little sensitive to the sun.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: And so sun sensitivity, if you're going to get that intense burn, that certainly could aggravate or cause discoloration.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's some other things that are interesting that can cause discoloration or aggravate discoloration that we don't even think of.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, expensive perfume that has bergamot oil in it.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Now, Estee Lauder used to say spray your perfume into the air and walk into it so it just kind of envelops you.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, bergamot oil is a sun sensitizer in terms of it can cause pigmentation in some people.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: So you've got it on all over.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: You might have gotten it on your face, you might have gotten it on your chest.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: That's another area that's vulnerable.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Another one is let's say you're sitting around the pool, hopefully covered up, you're wearing your hat and your sunscreen, and you're drinking a lemon lime drink.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: And as you're sipping on it, the bubbles are hitting you in the face and the chest.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Those are also sensitizing agents that can cause hyperpigmentation.
40:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's really and you had well, I hate that you told me about the bergamot because that's my favorite sentence.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: You just have to kind of be careful where you and it's it it may not be an issue for some people, but it can be an issue.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't think about no, I had no idea.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: That's such that's such good trivia knowledge, I feel like you should know that.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and it's also in sync with our fragrance Fridays.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've noticed I've started doing Fragrance Fridays.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna bring that up to uh one of our guests and be like, did you know that Bergmot helps with discoloration?
40:40
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, so I want to move on.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you, um, you know, we talked about sunscreens and I and I love that, but so they do then sunscreens do prevent discoloration, then yes?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: It can certainly be helpful, but again, they don't necessarily change your hormones or change other things.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you can be wearing the very best sunscreen in the world, and you're still gonna be absorbing in about 3% radiation, two to three percent.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So that doesn't sound like a lot, but it's enough to trigger a lot of different things.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: But it certainly can be a factor in helping to prevent.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that um, you know, people don't really know about sunscreens lots of times is that sunscreens are considered over-the-counter drugs.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not a prescription, but an over-the-counter drug is very stringently controlled by the FDA.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: So the FDA tells you exactly what you can say about a sunscreen.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a box on the back, they even regulate the size of the print, they regulate the little bar that goes around it, they tell you exactly what you can say, they approve what sunscreens you can use, what sunscreens you can't use.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, again, while we can't make a claim for it, there are things that we can do that can dramatically help to extend the effectiveness of a sunscreen.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So, I'll give you an example.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: And our sunscreens, we have three different sunscreens.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, we have something called phytomelanin.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Phytomelanin is chemically identical to human melanin and it comes from the date palm.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: And melanin is one of the most protective elements you have in your body.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: The more pigment you have, the more protected you are.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you've got somebody who is just really dark pigment, chances are when they're 70 or 80 years old, you're not going to see lines and wrinkles.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't mean that they're 100% protective, but they have more protective than somebody that's fair skinned like myself.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: And so this is in a sense, it's kind of like putting a blanket over your head because it really can make a difference in how you react to these various elements.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, we also have something I have in my SPF33, which happens to be my favorite, and that is there's something called beta-glucan 1-3.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: And beta-glucan 1-3 attaches to Langerhan cells, and Langerhan cells look like look like little pigtails or curlicues that go to the surface of the skin, and they're kind of the first line of defense.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: So when you're in contact with radiation or other things that can be possibly detrimental, um, it it helps, it sort of they they act to trigger responses and things that can be very helpful and maybe hopefully mitigate the cascading effect and all of that.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: What happens is when Langerhan cells are exposed to radiation, they become compromised.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: And so your skin doesn't have the same defenses.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: And what this does is it attaches the Langerhan cells and it helps them from becoming compromised.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: And there's other things that we do in our sunscreens to help to mitigate um these things that happen when you come in contact with radiation.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: And so, again, it's just so important to wear a sunscreen and also also also to use this skincare that can really truly make a difference in terms of how your skin functions.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: And again, like Using a retinoid because it actually can correct instructions coming from your DNA and it can make such a difference in the damage that you've already sustained.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: And we also know that the right retinoid can help to prevent atinic keratosis, which is pre- or which are precancerous lesions.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and that's interesting.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just you know, I feel like you've you approach sunscreen so differently too, Jan.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I feel like, you know, and a lot of people in the industry have actually commented on how amazing your sunscreens are.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's really interesting to me that there are these components tied into the formulations that are, you know, preventative in a lot of ways.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: That that's that's true, truly real, you know, unique in my opinion.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: So what about okay, now this is something that I think we've we've discovered, you know, or not discovered, discussed a lot in our previous episodes.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: And I and I think um I'm very interested in it in terms of how it plays into discoloration, and that is redness.
44:59
SPEAKER_02: So redness, um, does that, you know, go hand in hand with discoloration, or you know, how does that work?
45:07
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times when people, particularly say the chest area, okay, so you've got that that that that V that's so annoying that, you know, like you look at the skin over here and it looks so beautifully smooth and pristine, and over here it does, and then you've got that V.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: And generally that area is a combination of red and brown, and people just assume that the red is part of the quote discoloration.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: So there's actually two things that are going on there.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: One is brown discoloration, which we're talking about, and the other one is vascular, so it has to do with the fact that the your your blood veins and your microvascular system and your blood veins in general have been exposed to the sun, which is damaging.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: And so it's caused sort of the appearance of what we refer to as dilated capillaries, dilated veins, or telandictasias.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: And it can generally, if that's a function of just uh cumulative sun exposure, however, it could also be connected with rosacea.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: So if you have rosacea on your face, it may extend into the chest area.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: That's a whole different issue.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Now, uh just going getting rid of the brown discoloration doesn't address the redness.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: So there's two different issues.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: So you can use luminate on your chest area to really help with the brown discoloration.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: But uh if but if you decide that you want to take it a step further and clear everything, again, there are lasers that go after red and brown at the same time.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: IPL, intense pulse light, which is a light source, it's not actually a true laser, but it's a light source, it's treated like a laser, which you would get at Medispa or you know, your the physician office, um, is actually designed where it can be attracted to both red and brown in the skin at the same time.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: So one treatment, you're addressing both of those.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: And here the one thing I have to make a disclaimer when you are with any laser, when you're going after brown and it absorbs the energy into the brown, afterwards, as it starts to um work on the pigment, or as the pigment starts to degrade, it becomes becomes darker temporarily.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: And then after a few days, a week or so, or whatever, it kind of flakes off and it becomes lighter.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: And you have your next treatment.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: Same thing happens, it gets a little darker, but it gets lighter.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: And so through your three to five treatments, that's typically how you uh how the pigment decreases.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you don't tell somebody that and afterward a few days they look down and they oh my gosh, it's darker.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: But you can also do that on the face as well, and that's a treatment that's also used for rosacea, but again, it goes after red, it goes after brown, it doesn't ablate the skin, so you don't end up, you're not all scabby, you're not missing skin.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: You might be a little red for 24 hours, but that's about it.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: And that's good to know though, about the you know, it gets darker and then lighter because that happens, I think, a lot with um products that you know, I think dermatologists, not products, medications, the dermatologists describe, they always tell you, well, it's gonna get worse before it gets better, you know.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: So that's it's and you know, the most common, the most common, the gold standard medically that's prescribed for discoloration, red discoloration, is hydrokinone.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, hydrokinone is very controversial, and I I don't have anything against it, but it's a phenolic compound, it's paradoxical.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: And so hydrokinone can, first of all, help to decrease pigment and even skin tone.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: It can also, if it's used for too long a period of time and in too high a percentage, it can cause a permanent blue black pigment that never goes away.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: And it also, and again in higher percentages, can actually cause hypopigmentation, so loss of pigment in certain areas.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: And for this reason, hydrokinone in many parts of the world is not available, it's been banned.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Or you have to go through, for example, in the UK, you can't go to your your Medispa or your doctor to get hydrokinone.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: They call it, I have to go to hospital to get it, as they say, which means they have to get some special prescription or something, because they've had so many issues with this, and it's actually designed, and again, a lot of people don't know this.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Hydrokinone is designed to be used maybe for about three months, and then you go off of it.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: It's not meant to be used indefinitely because it can sometimes cause the skin to start to look kind of gray and and and just not quite um that not bright and and really even toned.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: And so when you just as you start to see a result, then you've got to you should stop using it.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: It's really not meant to be used indefinitely.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: So things like the skin care management system, things like luminate, one of the reasons why physicians work with with our products is because it they can be used indefinitely, and the longer you use it, it gets progressively better.
50:26
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
50:27
SPEAKER_02: No, I I think you know, for the hydrochrinone, I'm personally, I don't know.
50:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't maybe because of I'm biased and from the other fields of medication of medicine, but I'm just not a fan of it.
50:37
SPEAKER_02: I think that you know, there's definitely better options like you've mentioned in your line.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think that we need to start straying away from these old, old, you know, approaches that medicine has just been redundant about.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, that's interesting to know what you said.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, for me, honestly, Jan, this this episode was very uh dear to my heart because I know that, you know, I'm sure you're aware, you know, in in places like India and you know, even Africa and you know, all over the world, this idea of just lighter skin has led to the creation of products that are so terrible, so toxic, you know.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: And so it's it's just so important for people to be educated about this stuff and really take the right approach.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even today, I see posts all the time about people using this product called Fair and Lovely, you know, in India.
51:24
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, what are you doing and why?
51:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it rather than doing that, just understand what your skin needs and go after that.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, so this has been wonderful.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and you just mentioned something it's so important because there are some things like there's something that's uh somewhat new that's being used for pigmentation that works for some people, doesn't work for others.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna know what this is transexamic acid.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Now, what is transexamic acid used for?
51:52
SPEAKER_00: Medicine.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: If you are if you are, let's say you have an auto accident and you are bleeding to death, transexamic acid would help the blood to clot.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it's it it it's so if you imagine that you're you're taking it orally for pigmentation, um, you could possibly uh increase the uh probability of blood clots or um a stroke or something like that.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: So I don't recommend that.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, topically, they've shown some evidence that it works for some people, and it works for some people, but it doesn't work for others.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: They don't know the exact method of action, except in some individuals there seems to be a correlation between uh the blood and the pigmentation, and we don't understand that fully, but it doesn't work for everyone.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: So you really have to understand what you're putting on your skin or what you're taking or you know, ingesting.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and that's very scary to me that people are using that.
52:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, blood clots is the lot, it's it's the milder side effect.
52:58
SPEAKER_02: You're gonna probably, you know, create an embolus going straight to your brain than you know, going to a coma.
53:03
SPEAKER_02: So please don't use that.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: That sounds horrible.
53:07
SPEAKER_02: I know, but okay, this has been this has been great, and as always, I think discoloration is a topic no one understands, and I see it everywhere, you know, on social media, uh, even people who chime in for more listenership.
53:20
SPEAKER_02: So this has been, I think, one of the well, I think all of the episodes were very, very, very informative, but this one was really great.
53:26
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for educating us.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: And everybody who has been listening, I wouldn't be here without you.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to next time.
53:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
53:38
SPEAKER_02: I for everyone uh that has tuned in, make sure that you leave your comments, your questions.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: I will definitely pass them to Jan's team.
53:45
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, uh stay tuned for more content.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: Hank, so are we up?
53:52
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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