Latest / The Front / Hedley Thomas’ new cold case podcast: Bronwyn

Transcript

Hedley Thomas’ new cold case podcast: Bronwyn · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's Friday May twenty four. It's been two years since
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: labor One government and Anthony Albanezi is coming for Peter Dutton.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: The PM will launch a ferocious political attack on the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: opposition leader. In a speech marking the election anniversary today,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: he says Dutton's a carbon copy of his predecessor, Scott Morrison,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and he'll urge voters to reject fear and division stoked
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: by the Coalition in the run up to the election.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: That story is live right now at the Australian dot
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Com dot a U. Six years after the Teacher's Pet
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: made waves around the world, The Australian's national Chief correspondent,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Headley Thomas is back with a brand new podcast investigation.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: This time, Headley's delving into the cold case of Bronwyn Winfield,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: a young mum who disappeared from an idyllic surftown on
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the New South Wales North Coast more than three decades ago.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: In today's episode, Headley explains how this story found him
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and if he thinks it can be solved. In twenty eighteen,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Australian journalism blew up with a huge story told in
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a groupping new way, an investigative podcast by The Australian's
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: National Chief correspondent Headley Thomas. The Teacher's Pet has had
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: more than eighty million downloads around the world and it
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: resulted in the arrest, charge and murder conviction of its subject,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Christopher Michael Dawson. He is now appealing. What almost no
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: one knows is that at that time another big story
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: was brewing in the background. Family members and friends of
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: another missing woman, Bronwyn Winfield, was struck by the similarities
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: between her case and that of Lynette Simms, whose disappearance
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Headley investigated in The Teacher's Pet. In those early days,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: years before Lynn's husband Chris Dawson would be brought to justice,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Bromwin's loved ones reached out to Hedley, urging him to
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: look into her nineteen ninety one disappearance from Lennox Head
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: in the New South Wales Northern Rivers region, but Bromwin's
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: name was already on Headley's radar.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: It was late twenty seventeen Claire I was interviewing the
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: former Deputy State Coroner for New South Wales Karl Milavanovitch
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: about the case of Chris Dawson and the allegations that
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: he had murdered his wife Lynn all those years ago
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, and while I was talking to Karl,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: he expressed his grave concerns about a number of cases
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: involving missing women, women who had suddenly disappeared. They had
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: ties to the community, they had small children. Lynn was
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: one of those, and he mentioned the case of bromwyn Winfield.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: He told me that he'd run an inquest into that
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: case in two thousand and two and he'd made a
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: recommendation about it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Here's the moment Hedley first heard bromwyn Winfield's name from
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Karl Milvanovitch.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I did an inquest of a lady called bromwyn Winfield,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: and she had two kids as well, and she went
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: to bed one night and she disappeared next day. And
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: there was some suggestion from a neighbor that.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: And I didn't have time then to deal with it,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: but I wanted to revisit it at some point, and
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I guess for the last six and a half years,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I've been collecting bits and pieces and talking to people
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: connected to the case, reaching out to Bromwin's family. What
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: also happened was that as the episodes of The Teacher's
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Pet began unfolding from May twenty eighteen, people who were
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: listening they were reminded of something that had just eaten
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: away at them for some time, that there hadn't been
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: a proper resolution of Bromwin's disappearance, the deeply suspicious circumstances
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: surrounding it, and they urged me to get involved in it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Today, all the information and evidence heavily collected over the
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: years has made it out of the folder he created
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: on that day in twenty seventeen and into a new
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: podcast investigation for The Australian. It's called Bronwyn and it
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: is hauntingly similar to the disappearance of Lynn Dawson. Loving
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: young moms, sudden disappearances families left in the grief and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: shock of ambiguous loss.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Sadly, it's the case that across Australia police forces through
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties, and no doubt earlier, were unwilling
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: to look at foul play as the probable reason for
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the sudden disappearances of loving, dedicated young mums, particularly those
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: going through a marital breakdown. So when they disappeared, the
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: paperwork was just filed in the bottom drawer marked missing person,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: not given a high priority as a possible homicide. And
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: this is what Karl Milavanovitch identified in a number of
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: these missing women cases that he dealt with as a
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: senior coroner before his retirement. When he flagged that to
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: me when I met him at his home in late
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, it was a bit of a light bulb
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: moment because you think, gosh, how many other cases are there.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: This was a systemic problem. It's no longer the case today.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: If a young mum like Bromwin suddenly disappeared at the
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: same time as she's newly separated from her husband, there
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: would almost certainly be a very committed police investigation looking
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: at all of the unusual circumstances and making sure that
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: witnesses were soon interviewed. But unbelievably, for the first five
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: years after Bromwin's disappearance, the police did not even take
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: a statement from anybody. They spoke to, just a couple
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: of neighbors. They didn't bring anyone down to the police
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: station to take a formal statement. They didn't properly search
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the house or the car. It's hard to believe how
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: poor the original investigation was.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Bromwyn Winfield was just thirty one years old when she
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: disappeared from the home built by her husband John.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Bronwyn was to everybody who knew her, an incredible, caring
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and devoted young mum. She had two daughters. They were Lauren,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: who was five, and Crystal ten. Bromwam was close to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: her brother, her cousins. She'd had a difficult childhood because
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: her own mother, when Bromwin was two, had postnatal depression
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and she disappeared from her own young children. And very sadly,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: when Bromwin herself disappeared some twenty nine years after her
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: own mother had disappeared, there was for the police a link.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: They thought, well, is she doing what her own mother
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: had done. The circumstances were very, very different. Bromwyn was
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: of very sound mind. She had plans, She was making plans,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: She had appointments the next day. The kids were going
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: back to school on the Monday.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: John was Bromwin's second husband and the relationship had been
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: strong for some time.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: She wanted to leave her husband John, and indeed she did.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: She moved into a townhouse that she couldn't really afford,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: but she knew she had to get away. Only a
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: short drive from the family home, the home that John
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: had built. He's a very skilled bricklayer. He could build
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: houses from scratch and this house was his pride and joy.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: She disappeared on the Sunday evening. She had very little money,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: She didn't have means to support herself, but she and
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: her husband were going to be having an argument over
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: who got the spoils from the marriage. How would that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: property settlement unfold? And on the evening she disappeared. Her
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: husband had left Sydney to fly back. He'd been working
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: in Sydney building a house, and he became aware that
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Bromwin had moved from the rented townhouse with the girls
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: back into the family home, the home that she had
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: had to leave when they said. She was there for
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: two nights, and then on the Sunday, John arrived. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that's the last time anybody ever saw or heard from Bromwin.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she tucked to her children into bed that night. Headley,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: how do we know that? Were the children interviewed by police.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Bromman's eldest daughter did talk to police several years later,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: but The children were also in touch with their auntie
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and uncle. They spoke to their neighbors and friends, and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: it's not disputed by John that the children were in
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: bed that Sunday night. In fact, John readily acknowledges that
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: he was at the house too, and according to some accounts,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: he acknowledged that he actually had a disagreement with Bromwin
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: on the Sunday night. But his story is that she
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: got into a car after she had made one or
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: two phone calls from the bedroom, a car turned up.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: He doesn't know what sort of car it was, he said.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: He couldn't see the driver, doesn't know who was driving it.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: She got into that vehicle and left. Now, it was
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: a very unusual thing for her to do, to go
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: away for a break. She hadn't told her friend she
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: was going away for any sort of break. She left
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: behind pretty much everything, and she had very little in
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: the way of money. That's why her family was very
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: concerned immediately. But local police did a very poor job
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: in the early stages. They really just treated ron Win
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: as if she was doing what her mother had done,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: that she was a runaway mom, abandoning her family, her
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: husband and her kids. Crystal has described having heard raised
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: voices her parents are arguing, and then she must have
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: fallen asleep because she was woken up along with Lauren
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: late at night, probably around ten thirty pm, maybe a
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: little bit earlier. John left the house with his daughters
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: and drove through the night to Sydney, arriving the next morning.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: The children were due at school on the Monday, was
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: in school holidays and they ended up staying in Sydney
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: for ten or eleven days. And then John, at the
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: urging of Bromwan's brother, drove back up to Lennox and
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: did report Bromwyn missing to police.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Coming up why it's taken so long for Bromwyn Winfield's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: case to be taken seriously. The podcast Bromwyn is available
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: now at bronwynpodcast dot com. That's bro Nwyn podcast dot com.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Subscribers to The Australian are the first to hear episodes
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of Headly Thomas's brand new investigative podcast series. Plus they
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: get breaking news alerts direct to their phones. All are
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: lively commentary and access to special events. Check us out
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: at The Australian dot com dot au and we'll be
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: back after this break. There were eleven days between Bronwyn
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Winfield was last seen and the time her husband, John
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: reported her missing to police. On his account, Bronwyn had
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: said she was going away for a few days to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: take some time for herself. So why the delay?
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I think that's a very good question, Claire. And as
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: best I can understand from talking to Bromwin's family and friends,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: they were waiting for John to make that move, and
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: they were urging him to do so for some time. Andy,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: who is Broman's brother, He had told John that if
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: he didn't report Bromwin missing to the police, Andy would.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: A woman called Deb Paul, who was Broman's very good
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: friend and nearest neighbor. She told me that she said
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: was the same effect. She was very very concerned about
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Bromwin and what had happened. She knew how devoted Bromin
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: was as a mum, the plans that Bromwyn had made.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: She was happy to be back in her house. She
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: had flagged no plan or intention to leave the house,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: and Deb couldn't see when Deb went through the house
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: that Broman had actually taken anything with her except for
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: her handbag, which wasn't there.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, the former Deputy State Coroner
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Karl Milvanovitch, who you heard about at the top of
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: his episode, found Bromwyn Winfield was dead. He recommended to
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: the new South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions that John
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Winfield be charged with her murder. Nicholas Cowdery, who was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: the DPP, then didn't pursue it. He said there was
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: no evidence John had killed Bronwyn or played any role
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: in her death. It's a decision that's baffled Bronwin's loved
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: ones for decades. This is a feature of the justice
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: system that I think some people might not know so
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: much about. Can you explain Headley, how it can be
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that a coroner can make a recommendation about a case
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: like this that doesn't turn into a prosecution.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I think that there's such a mismatch between what happens
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: when a coroner runs an inquest involving sometimes many days,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: sometimes a week of public hearings with witnesses appearing and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: giving evidence under oath, and then the coroner, who's often
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: an experienced senior magistrate, makes certain findings and recommendations, and
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: then there's this behind closed door paperwork review by unknown
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: lawyers in the office of the Director of Public Prosecution,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: They review the recommendation, and presumably they go through the evidence.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Often the police brief is very extensive. But how much
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: of the evidence do they go through? Do they read
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: all the transcripts and witness statements. Are they at a
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: sufficiently senior level to really appreciate what the senior coroner
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: has appreciated. We don't know, because that process is very opaque.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: You reached out to John Winfield. What did he say?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: John Winfield got back to me and he acknowledged the
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: letter that I had written to him seeking his side
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: of the story. He said that he had previously answered
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: something like four hundred and fifteen questions from a homicide
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: squad detective and he stood by all the answers he
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: gave to those, and we'll unpack those in several episodes
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: of the podcast series. He said also, and I think
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: this is very interesting because it's a reflection of some
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of the things that have been said over the years
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: by him about Bromwin that her side of the family
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: has a long generational history of mental illness on the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: male and female side. That's how he put it. Now,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I've talked to Bromwyn's good friends in Lennox. Head I've
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: talked to family members. The police have obviously talked to
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: many people because when the police did do a very
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: thorough investigation starting in nineteen ninety eight, many dozens of
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: statements were taken by Detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor, and in
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: none of those interviews or statements does anyone say Bromwin
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: was showing signs of mental illness. It just doesn't register.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Bromwen was a very capable, intelligent, motivated young mum. It
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: seems that having separated from John, she knew what she
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: wanted to do. She just wanted to start again with
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: her two girls, but without John, and the next stage
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: in that process was working out what she would walk
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: away with, what portion of the house and all the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: assets that they had jointly strive to achieve together she
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: would be able to have to start again.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: What's your instinct, Headley, Is this case solvable?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Well? I think all these cases are potentially solvable. It
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: would only take some fresh new information that is really
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: probative that somebody has not disclosed, has for whatever reason,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: decided to keep to themselves for many years. If somebody
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: comes forward with that to the police directly, to me,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: then if it's corroborated and checked out, that can make
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a difference. It could show that somebody else, somebody other
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: than John Winfield, was responsible. For example, I mean, we
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: don't know what happened on that Sunday night. John's story
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: is she got into a car driven by a stranger
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and that's that. Who knows. Maybe somebody has some information
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: about that, Maybe they have information about something else that
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: John hasn't told us, But of course they can be solved.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Bromwyn disappeared nine years after Lynn disappeared. People believed that
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Linn's case could never be solved, and it was.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: There is an important difference in the stories of lin
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Sim's and Bromwyn Winfield. John Winfield has never been charged,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: and there's no suggestion that he's anything like Chris Dawson.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: But the similarities between Lynn and Bromwyn are inescapable, loving,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: protective mothers whose children were robbed of their right to
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: a safe, secure maternal bond.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I think we need to be very careful to not
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: conflate them or see them as being cut from the
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: same cloth. John Winfield has always emphatically denied any involvement
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: in foul play. He certainly has never been charged with anything.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: The coroner recommended to the then DPP Nicholas Cowdery, that
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: he should be charged and considered for prosecution over Bromwin's
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: suspected murder, but in the DPP's assessment back in two
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: thousand and three there was insufficient evidence. Of course, there's nobody,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: and some might argue that Bronwin has been living a
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: life somehow incognito, having never been seen. In my opinion,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that is just completely implausible. Bromwin's almost certainly dead. What
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: we don't know is when she died and how she died.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: But the idea that a very committed mum of thirty
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: one years old could spend the next thirty one years
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: somehow eking out a life, remaining unnoticed, being able to
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: support herself, and never contact two little girls with whom
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: she had a very beautiful and loving relationship is just
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: ridiculous in my view.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Headly Thomas is The Australian's national Chief correspondent and the
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: creator of our new investigative podcast series Bronwyn. Subscribers to
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: The Australian are the first to hear it. You can
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: register to listen to the first two episodes now at
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Bronwyn Podcast dot com. We've also got exclusive stories, maps, timelines,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: graphics and video and for all Australia's best journalism twenty
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: four to seven go to the Australian dot com dot au.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the front this week. Our
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: team is Kristin Amiot, Leat Sammaglu, Josh Burton, Jasper Leigue,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Tiffany Dimac, Matthew Condon and me Claire Harvey.