Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Beyond Hovering: from Helicopter to Helpful | Ep. 91

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Beyond Hovering: from Helicopter to Helpful | Ep. 91 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Welcome back to the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:09
  I'm your host, Cheryl Lang.
• 0:12
  If you were with us recently, you know we've been exploring the delicate balance between engaged parenting and helicoptering.
• 0:22
  Today we're going deeper into the heart of it, uncovering some strategies about how to help you help your children learn from their choices.
• 0:32
  And how to walk wisely alongside of them in their struggle no matter how they turn out.
• 0:40
  Bow and get ready for some analogies involving basketballs and breakfast cereals.
• 0:56
  Cheryl: It was interesting, because I was looking, Googling, and I even used ChatGPT,
• 1:05
  Ellen: right?
• 1:06
  Cheryl: Into the modern age, Cheryl.
• 1:08
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 1:09
  Cheryl: But trying to find, okay, what do parents ask about?
• 1:12
  Cheryl: And so, like, what are the top questions that are proposed to gurus or to podcasts and so forth?
• 1:19
  Cheryl: And it was very interesting, because, like...
• 1:22
  Cheryl: The top 10 were very specific, and they were all, well, early on it was like how to change a diaper.
• 1:31
  Cheryl: Like the practicals.
• 1:32
  Cheryl: Yeah, okay.
• 1:33
  Cheryl: Or how to make my child succeed.
• 1:35
  Cheryl: And they were very much wanting the one, two, three type answers.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: Yeah, of course.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: You know, and I
• 1:42
  Ellen: understand that.
• 1:43
  Ellen: Because if you get the diaper changing wrong, you're in trouble.
• 1:47
  Christie: Right.
• 1:47
  Christie: It has certain consequences.
• 1:48
  Christie: Step one, have babies.
• 1:49
  Christie: Step two, learn to change the diaper.
• 1:50
  Ellen: As I found when my, my dad came and changed one of our kids, uh, diapers and it was a pamper and he put the plastic side
• 1:56
  Christie: on the inside.
• 1:57
  Christie: Oh no.
• 1:58
  Christie: Oh my gosh.
• 1:59
  Christie: Yes.
• 1:59
  Christie: Oh my.
• 2:00
  Christie: Well now diapers are kind of fabric on both, are cloth on both sides so you really wouldn't know.
• 2:05
  Christie: But I didn't say anything because what was the point?
• 2:08
  Christie: Right.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: though.
• 2:10
  Cheryl: I was just thinking how different we TPP are because that's not what we want to do.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 2:17
  Cheryl: You know, of course we want to equip you, our listening audience with the practical, but we want to talk about the hearts and the philosophy of.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: What you really want to do in parenting.
• 2:31
  Christie: Well, I feel like I was kind of like the original TPP listener coming to you, Cheryl,
• 2:37
  Cheryl: gentle laugh
• 2:38
  Christie: for advice on parenting before TPP was even a thing, because I can relate with the idea of just tell me what to do.
• 2:45
  Christie: Just tell me.
• 2:46
  Christie: It's step one, step two, and step three, so I can produce wonderful children.
• 2:49
  Christie: Yes.
• 2:49
  Christie: And you trained me well in thinking, you know, it's not about if you could, you could have given me step one, step two, step three, but without developing my own why and my own philosophy of parenting.
• 3:01
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:02
  Christie: I was just going to produce a formula that looks like what Cheryl did with her kids.
• 3:07
  Christie: Well, I don't have Cheryl's kids and I'm not Cheryl.
• 3:10
  Christie: So I need to know why I care about these things for my children.
• 3:14
  Christie: Or don't care.
• 3:15
  Christie: Yeah, that's kind of a list.
• 3:16
  Christie: You have
• 3:16
  Ellen: to go right.
• 3:17
  Ellen: It's important to me or you know, this is important to all my friends over here, but that personally isn't important to me.
• 3:23
  Ellen: Exactly.
• 3:24
  Cheryl: And that's why we do the parenting podcast the way we do because we don't want clones of us.
• 3:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:30
  Cheryl: And we want to develop and equip our audience and we'll get to the practical like today.
• 3:35
  Christie: Right?
• 3:35
  Christie: But the practical comes out of the philosophy
• 3:38
  Cheryl: It would be similar to, you go and the doctor diagnoses hypertension and you go, well, what is that?
• 3:45
  Cheryl: and then he just tells you what to do about it.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:49
  Cheryl: Like just take this pill, but he doesn't talk about anything else.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: The bigger picture, right?
• 3:55
  Cheryl: Why you have high blood pressure and other things other than here You have hypertension just take this pill And so that's what we want to do is give sort of a much bigger picture to equip for life not just take this parenting pill,
• 4:12
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: And options to look at.
• 4:15
  Cheryl: You know.
• 4:16
  Cheryl: Exactly.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: Okay, so, specifically today, we are following up on a very philosophical, if you will, discussion about helicopter parenting.
• 4:27
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 4:28
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:29
  Cheryl: And just a little catch up, we said, The problem with helicopter parenting is it's a little bit like bad breath.
• 4:38
  Cheryl: You know, you may not know that you have it.
• 4:40
  Cheryl: And so we talked about what it looks like and the danger of it.
• 4:45
  Cheryl: Because, for example, go back to the high blood pressure, you may...
• 4:48
  Cheryl: not know it's a silent killer, you may not know you have it, and if it's not diagnosed, you're there be a lot of consequences.
• 4:57
  Cheryl: And I think that helicopter parenting is the same thing.
• 5:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:01
  Cheryl: So we kind of talked about a diagnosis last time.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: So how about today, if we look at strategies for how to have this.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: Balance between being an engaged, loving, involved, giving parent, and helicoptering.
• 5:21
  Cheryl: That's a delicate balance.
• 5:24
  Cheryl: It's a nice way of saying
• 5:25
  Ellen: you're a controlling parent, right?
• 5:29
  Cheryl: Okay, so what are some of your struggles in this area or what would you say?
• 5:33
  Christie: Well, I, I think I shared last time, you know, I was always so nervous and anxious about being neglectful of my kids.
• 5:40
  Christie: And so controlling felt attentive, you know, if I was overly controlling with my kids, it felt like I'm on top of things.
• 5:49
  Christie: I'm doing the right thing because I'm engaged and yes.
• 5:53
  Christie: Yes.
• 5:53
  Christie: And sometimes that would produce the right result.
• 5:56
  Christie: I would think, Oh, well, if they, if I hadn't been on top of them, they wouldn't have gotten their room clean or they wouldn't, you know?
• 6:01
  Christie: And so.
• 6:02
  Christie: That's what I've always struggled with is how to feel.
• 6:08
  Christie: How to know how to be engaged and attentive without overbearing.
• 6:13
  Christie: Yeah,
• 6:13
  Cheryl: that's true.
• 6:14
  Ellen: Yeah, because you're not a drill instructor.
• 6:17
  Ellen: As a person from a military background, a drill instructor is in your face about every single thing.
• 6:23
  Ellen: Right.
• 6:23
  Ellen: Until you go to bed, and even that they're in your face.
• 6:25
  Ellen: And sometimes parents don't realize that's what you're doing to your child.
• 6:29
  Ellen: You're just in their face about everything 24 7.
• 6:32
  Ellen: Good.
• 6:33
  Cheryl: And.
• 6:33
  Cheryl: you may be very nice.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: Yes, true.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: They you don't know it.
• 6:37
  Ellen: We're not yelling or screaming.
• 6:38
  Ellen: You're just controlling
• 6:40
  Cheryl: One strategy I think that helps me is what you talked about Particularly as our children get older because there are Helicopter parenting when they're young, but I see it developing much worse children get over older and even as they're released out of the house I can think of two different moms that came to me and not that the children weren't eating properly or getting the right grades, It was about one of the More serious areas, but the children, and I don't want to say children, they were both, young adults.
• 7:17
  Cheryl: Moms that came to me, and they had daughters in their early 20s.
• 7:20
  Cheryl: They were living financially independent.
• 7:23
  Cheryl: On their own, but they had just left the house within a year and the moms came to me because that the daughters had made, um, moral.
• 7:34
  Cheryl: And value based choices that were in great contrast to what the parents wanted and the deeply held beliefs and values of the parents.
• 7:45
  Cheryl: And so I understand.
• 7:48
  Cheryl: It's very disappointing.
• 7:49
  Cheryl: It's disappointing and it is sad.
• 7:51
  Cheryl: Very sad.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: And it was hard and I understand.
• 7:54
  Cheryl: And in both of these cases, The daughters had chosen to live with their boyfriends.
• 7:58
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 7:59
  Cheryl: And so, both of them came and talked with me, but it's this one walked this delicate balance so well, The one that didn't walk it well came, and she was hoping to get from me more concrete ways for getting her daughter to do what they told her to do.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: Oh, so she was recruiting
• 8:20
  Christie: you to her helicopter.
• 8:22
  Cheryl: Exactly right.
• 8:23
  Cheryl: Come join me.
• 8:24
  Cheryl: Right?
• 8:25
  Cheryl: Let's take a ride here.
• 8:26
  Cheryl: I think she thought I was a helicopter expert.
• 8:28
  Cheryl: Uh huh.
• 8:28
  Cheryl: And, I mean.
• 8:30
  Cheryl: Yeah, if we had asked her, she would have not never known she had bad breath, and it was so obvious, and I just kind of sat there a little bit my jaw open listening to her and thinking about what am I going to say, because she wanted me to tell her how.
• 8:47
  Cheryl: They could get her daughter to change her mind, undo her choices, and move back home and come under their authority and obey them.
• 8:55
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 8:56
  Cheryl: And so I...
• 8:57
  Cheryl: Like, she was five.
• 8:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:59
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 8:59
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:00
  Cheryl: And I just said, well, number one, philosophically, I disagree with you.
• 9:05
  Cheryl: Right.
• 9:06
  Cheryl: Now, actually, I hold that deep value of I'm wanting my children to make...
• 9:12
  Cheryl: Moral choices that I'm in agreement with, but it's their choice, it's their choice at this age.
• 9:21
  Cheryl: And so we had a conversation and I explained, actually, here's how I think, the kind of things we're going to talk about today.
• 9:29
  Cheryl: Here's how I think you could support your daughter and keep that relationship.
• 9:33
  Cheryl: But that you have no right, or position, or place, or even a legal right Correct, right, right.
• 9:40
  Cheryl: to correct and direct your daughter.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 9:42
  Cheryl: Well And y'all can kind of imagine, she wasn't very happy with me, and she's never come back.
• 9:48
  Cheryl: Uh oh.
• 9:49
  Cheryl: And it
• 9:50
  Ellen: wouldn't have worked even if you gave her really good suggestions.
• 9:52
  Ellen: True.
• 9:54
  Ellen: That's not going to work.
• 9:55
  Ellen: Right.
• 9:56
  Ellen: She's
• 9:56
  Christie: an adult now.
• 9:57
  Christie: Right.
• 9:57
  Christie: And it wouldn't have been healthy if it had.
• 10:00
  Christie: I think the hard thing about the older kids, too, is that sometimes we work into a relationship where they're the enabler.
• 10:08
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:09
  Christie: Because.
• 10:10
  Christie: Helicopter parenting can be beneficial for the kids sometimes when, well, like when you're paying for things because you want control over their choices or, you know, when you're getting something out of the deal, so you want control and investment in it.
• 10:24
  Christie: And so I think.
• 10:25
  Christie: we hit a roadblock when we disagree, when all of a sudden, oh, they're not cooperating.
• 10:30
  Christie: We had a great arrangement going here.
• 10:32
  Christie: I pay for the clothes and I get to say what you wear and they get the new clothes so they're happy.
• 10:37
  Christie: Right.
• 10:37
  Christie: But then all of a sudden you have a disagreement on, on what the issue is and it's a different story.
• 10:42
  Christie: Mm
• 10:42
  Cheryl: hmm.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: and I'm not going to purchase clothes that I don't want my child to wear.
• 10:47
  Cheryl: Right.
• 10:47
  Cheryl: And even whether they're still at home and under my, parenting or, for example, released already.
• 10:54
  Cheryl: Well, and
• 10:54
  Ellen: I think, this is the illustration I always use in my head with everything.
• 10:59
  Ellen: But there's a bridge, and there's a bridge to every relationship.
• 11:03
  Ellen: And my job ultimately is to keep the clutter off of my side of the bridge.
• 11:08
  Ellen: With the other person, whether it's our child or our spouses or our friends, they're in charge of their side of the bridge.
• 11:15
  Ellen: We tend to want to be in charge of the whole bridge, especially with our kids.
• 11:19
  Ellen: And we see clutter on their side of the bridge and we want to go pick it up.
• 11:22
  Ellen: But it's not our job to do that.
• 11:24
  Ellen: It's just our job to keep our side clean.
• 11:26
  Ellen: And if they want to trip over the clutter on their bridge, it's, it's their
• 11:29
  Cheryl: choice.
• 11:30
  Cheryl: And that's what I talked with this mom about, but it was as if I had been talking Russian to her, I don't think she understood at all what I was talking about because all she could think about is wanting that control.
• 11:44
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:45
  Cheryl: And, and I identified with her, understand the concern she had and her daughters choices and the consequences and it was in such contrast to her deeply held beliefs and I I identified with that.
• 11:57
  Cheryl: I just said.
• 11:58
  Cheryl: This is not an 11 year old.
• 12:00
  Cheryl: This is a different situation.
• 12:01
  Cheryl: And so it was really hard.
• 12:03
  Cheryl: One of the things you're talking about, um, Ellen, is resisting the urge to rescue.
• 12:08
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:09
  Cheryl: Because one of the things she wanted to do was rescue her daughter from the consequences like
• 12:14
  Ellen: you do when your child's very young and you save them from falling off the table, right?
• 12:20
  Ellen: Because it's dangerous.
• 12:21
  Ellen: But you can't do that when your kid is an adult.
• 12:25
  Ellen: And that's the hard part you're watching them walk down the road and you're thinking there's a cliff there does she know?
• 12:30
  Cheryl: And I think it's incremental, yes, that absolutely at 20 something, and she's out of the house, right?
• 12:38
  Cheryl: But all the way through this balance has to be walked so clearly.
• 12:44
  Cheryl: And it does get harder, you know, which is why you want to have that.
• 12:49
  Cheryl: Bridge cleared so we can have the conversations about it as you let them fail, whether it's, in this case, morally, or financially, or academically.
• 13:01
  Ellen: Yeah, I mean, but that is life.
• 13:03
  Ellen: We all failed.
• 13:04
  Ellen: I mean, those are some of our strongest lessons when we became adults.
• 13:08
  Ellen: And my parents might have told me not to do something, and I did it anyways, and it didn't work out.
• 13:13
  Ellen: But I remembered that lesson, and I didn't do it again.
• 13:16
  Ellen: And
• 13:17
  Cheryl: not everybody learned the first time.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: No way.
• 13:19
  Cheryl: I
• 13:19
  Ellen: was going to say, I didn't always learn
• 13:20
  Cheryl: the first time.
• 13:22
  Cheryl: Maybe
• 13:23
  Ellen: the 25th time.
• 13:25
  Ellen: Maybe I'm
• 13:25
  Christie: still learning.
• 13:26
  Christie: Well, and as parents, we're still learning you know, that process of some separation between my authority over them.
• 13:33
  Christie: It's a gradual thing from sleep training on.
• 13:36
  Christie: We're constantly working towards releasing our kids.
• 13:40
  Christie: Once we start the process of releasing, it becomes more comfortable as it graduates.
• 13:46
  Christie: And then life becomes fun,
• 13:47
  Ellen: because I can look at my adult children.
• 13:49
  Ellen: I may not agree with everything they do, but I can enjoy them.
• 13:52
  Ellen: Because it's no longer my responsibility.
• 13:54
  Ellen: They're all well, you know, they're in their 40s, you know, I'm not responsible for anything.
• 14:00
  Ellen: So if they make a mistake, I'll come alongside and give them sympathy, but I'm no longer responsible for that.
• 14:06
  Ellen: And that's, you know, that feels good.
• 14:09
  Ellen: I mean, I feel sad if they're making a mistake, but she really has nothing to do with me
• 14:15
  Cheryl: because not everybody has that relationship with.
• 14:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Cheryl: At any age, but even adults, I know, people whose hearts are very broken because their children chose to walk away.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: Or they've had to make lines in the relationship.
• 14:30
  Cheryl: But one of the things I would say in reference to what you're talking about, is the patience this takes.
• 14:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:36
  Cheryl: You know, that you have to be in here for the long term gain.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: Because watching that 13, 14, whatever it is, watching them, you mentioned space, I think.
• 14:47
  Cheryl: You know, I think of, uh, how you do physically with your little ones.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: At first, they have to play up on the front porch.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Cheryl: And then they can start playing further out in the yard.
• 14:58
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: And like when my granddaughters come over, I'll say, well, you can't step on the sidewalk.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: And so eventually, um, I have to let them start making those decisions.
• 15:10
  Cheryl: And I think that's a picture for all of what we're talking about is do the training.
• 15:16
  Cheryl: But that's the problem.
• 15:18
  Cheryl: Do the training, training, and then you have to quit training them.
• 15:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:22
  Cheryl: And be patient.
• 15:23
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:24
  Cheryl: Hoping over the long term.
• 15:27
  Cheryl: That they're going to maybe come to their senses or realize for themselves
• 15:31
  Ellen: and letting them do some of these more adult harder things in their teen years when they're still in the comfort and shelter of your home is really important.
• 15:41
  Ellen: Like what?
• 15:42
  Ellen: Well, um.
• 15:43
  Ellen: Maybe how they spend their money.
• 15:45
  Ellen: Maybe they're, they're working and, um, you have certain requirements.
• 15:49
  Ellen: This is what you're required to do while you live here.
• 15:51
  Ellen: But if they blow their money, they're not gonna starve, right?
• 15:55
  Ellen: They're not gonna get kicked out of the house.
• 15:57
  Ellen: Whereas if they're in the real world, they may lose their apartment.
• 16:00
  Ellen: They may go without, they may get their car repossessed.
• 16:03
  Ellen: You know.
• 16:04
  Ellen: So what I'm saying is that they have the consequences in your home.
• 16:08
  Ellen: You don't pad the consequences, but there's still a measure
• 16:10
  Christie: of safety.
• 16:11
  Christie: Right.
• 16:12
  Christie: We had a situation with one of our teens where we gave them a certain amount of money for their clothes for the season.
• 16:18
  Christie: And they found some shoes that were very nice and very expensive and I said, you know how much of a percentage of your portion of money that is, and if you make that choice to buy those shoes, you're not going to have enough money for these other things that you need.
• 16:34
  Christie: She said, I know.
• 16:35
  Christie: I said, okay, well, guess who wore those shoes every day for that whole season and rewashed jeans multiple times a week because they didn't have enough.
• 16:43
  Christie: And that's just a consequence of the choice.
• 16:45
  Christie: But like you said, it's better for it to be, you know.
• 16:49
  Christie: $200 shoes then not having rent money or, you know, something that would be more detrimental as an adult is underwear.
• 16:55
  Christie: Oh, they spent all their money in down a three pair of underwear.
• 16:58
  Christie: That does make laundry important.
• 16:59
  Christie: Oh, sorry,
• 17:02
  Cheryl: Well, and I think I've mentioned for what I found out my olders did, particularly towards the end of teens and then.
• 17:08
  Cheryl: College kids that stayed home is, that's what they kept buying were more underpants and socks.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: So they didn't have to do laundry?
• 17:16
  Cheryl: They could wear their, yeah, because of laundry.
• 17:18
  Cheryl: They had to do their laundry.
• 17:20
  Cheryl: So they could put off jeans and sweatshirts,
• 17:24
  Christie: put But at some point you gotta go to Target.
• 17:26
  Christie: So
• 17:27
  Cheryl: they would just keep buying tons of underpants and socks.
• 17:30
  Cheryl: Okay, but What I hear what you're talking about is so good that we don't just hope independence is going to happen, but that we encourage it you're looking for opportunities to give them independence and help them develop it.
• 17:46
  Cheryl: And then the other really good word.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: is resilience, because as we encourage this independence, what's the negative thing that can happen?
• 17:55
  Cheryl: It's failure, not living up all of the problems that come, but the failure has a chance to produce resilience.
• 18:03
  Cheryl: And that's what resilience is.
• 18:05
  Cheryl: a great thing.
• 18:05
  Cheryl: It's the bounce back quality.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: You know, if you've ever had a basketball and you try to bounce it and it just hits the ground and doesn't come back up, it's because it doesn't have resilience because it's lost its air.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: And then that's what we want to do.
• 18:22
  Cheryl: And that's what you did with the money.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: That's what you're doing with these opportunities is offering them and encouraging them to develop the independence.
• 18:31
  Cheryl: If there's failure, then they have the chance to be resilient.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: So that, whether it's college or marriage or whatever
• 18:39
  Ellen: it is...
• 18:39
  Ellen: Well, because in adult life, situations are going to happen to you that are out of your control.
• 18:44
  Ellen: Absolutely.
• 18:44
  Ellen: And if you don't have any resilience, you have a breakdown.
• 18:47
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:48
  Ellen: Those are your choices.
• 18:49
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:49
  Ellen: You learn to be resilient and go, okay, how do I bounce back from this really hard?
• 18:54
  Ellen: Whether it's a financial setback or...
• 18:56
  Ellen: a death or something that's just really hard in adulthood.
• 19:00
  Ellen: How do I bounce back and stay on the right path
• 19:03
  Christie: you know, because the issue is never the thing you think it is like that that issue is not the finances or the clothing.
• 19:11
  Christie: It was the decision making.
• 19:12
  Christie: And really, honestly, if I were to ask her, she'd probably say, I'd do it again.
• 19:17
  Christie: I like those shoes, you know, but in.
• 19:19
  Christie: Adult life, there are things that you have to decide.
• 19:22
  Christie: Okay, I've got to compromise something here.
• 19:24
  Christie: What is my priority?
• 19:26
  Christie: Are the shoes my priority, you know, and so that was a decision making lesson more than it was a budgeting.
• 19:34
  Cheryl: Very good.
• 19:34
  Cheryl: so see that's the problem with helicopter parenting.
• 19:38
  Cheryl: Ellen, because you're lifetime military.
• 19:40
  Cheryl: Yeah and we're saying helicopters are fantastic.
• 19:43
  Cheryl: What's the problem with helicopters?
• 19:45
  Ellen: Helicopters are wonderful, they serve a great purpose, but they do crash frequently.
• 19:49
  They
• 19:49
  Cheryl: sure do.
• 19:50
  Cheryl: And that's the problem with helicopter parenting.
• 19:52
  Cheryl: So, you are cutting short all the development that could happen, Yes and that helicopter is landing right in the middle of that relational bridge.
• 20:03
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 20:03
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:04
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:04
  Cheryl: But when that helicopter lands in the middle of that bridge, you can't get across to each other.
• 20:09
  Cheryl: And so that mom I mentioned earlier, that helicopter was Almost breaking the bridge apart.
• 20:16
  Cheryl: Okay, so in about the same time period, I had the second mom come to me.
• 20:20
  Cheryl: Similar situation.
• 20:22
  Cheryl: Her daughter was making moral and personal choices that were different from the deeply held values that the parents had instilled and talked about and lived out before their children.
• 20:33
  Cheryl: And so, when she came and we were talking about it, I was so impressed because You want to go over and, like, have the men come down the helicopters and grab them and pull them back to your side of the bridge.
• 20:48
  Cheryl: That's what the other mom wanted.
• 20:49
  Cheryl: Okay, but in this case, she cleared the bridge of not only the helicopter, she threw so much junk off because what she was doing that afternoon is going over to her daughter and her boyfriend's house and she had bought flowers for their garden.
• 21:06
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 21:07
  Christie: I love that.
• 21:08
  Cheryl: she was going over and spending the afternoon, she was coming in from out of town, and she was going to help her plant those flowers in her flower bed.
• 21:17
  Cheryl: And
• 21:17
  Christie: prioritize relationship over.
• 21:19
  Christie: Yeah, that's so
• 21:20
  Cheryl: good.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: It was hard.
• 21:22
  Cheryl: I mean, she was crying.
• 21:24
  Cheryl: Because she's very sad.
• 21:25
  Cheryl: Because of all the reasons that she didn't want her daughter making these choices.
• 21:31
  Cheryl: But she released her daughter.
• 21:32
  Cheryl: I just thought this was such superb.
• 21:36
  Cheryl: Parenting.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: And, uh, she's still in a close relationship where the
• 21:42
  Christie: daughter's free from shame or a guilt trip of the mom.
• 21:47
  Christie: You know, oh, you should have done it my way, or, well, if you wouldn't have done this,
• 21:51
  Cheryl: or...
• 21:52
  Cheryl: That's true, and is very interesting I remember her, another conversation she said That daughter came to her one time And said, Mom, I know we're making a decision that's different from the choices you and Dad would make and what you all believe.
• 22:07
  Cheryl: But thank you so much for respecting me like this.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: And so they continue this excellent relationship.
• 22:15
  Cheryl: See, because she didn't feel shame.
• 22:17
  Cheryl: And so that mother has the opportunity to be an influence and to love her daughter in a way that first helicopter mom does not.
• 22:26
  Cheryl: We have
• 22:26
  Ellen: to always remember relationship first.
• 22:28
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Ellen: Because if you lose that with your child or anybody, then there's nothing left.
• 22:34
  Ellen: Right.
• 22:34
  Ellen: But legalism.
• 22:35
  Ellen: True.
• 22:36
  Ellen: You know, and No one wants to live like that, or if they do, it's a sad
• 22:39
  Cheryl: existence,
• 22:40
  Ellen: Well, you know, if we've laid a foundation with our children when they're young and we've taught them some basic you know, what you've taught them may not be paying off at this moment, but down the road,
• 22:52
  Christie: Well, I think it comes down to worrying about what your job is and what their job is.
• 22:56
  Christie: Your job is to, is job.is to equip them give them the skills train them in those things and then release their job is is to do what they want to do with those skills that you've given them.
• 23:08
  Christie: And if they choose to use them, great.
• 23:09
  Christie: If not, that's not your business.
• 23:11
  Ellen: Yes, that's true.
• 23:12
  Ellen: And it, we always had this joke when my kids were young'cause they always wanted pres sweetened cereal And you know, we just didn't buy pres sweetened cereal And so every once in a while for a great treat, we'd get pres sweetened cereal, but they had to mix it.
• 23:25
  Ellen: It was like cornflakes, you know, something on top.
• 23:29
  Ellen: And so, but I always told him, you know, when you guys are adults and you're spinning, you can buy all the pre sweetened cereal you want, right?
• 23:36
  Ellen: And that was one of the first things they did pre sweetened cereal.
• 23:40
  Ellen: And then of course they all came back later on and go, yeah, we made ourselves sick cereal, you know, and it just was kind of a little bit of a family joke, but
• 23:50
  Christie: that, I mean, that's
• 23:51
  Cheryl: kind of it.
• 23:52
  Cheryl: But it's actually a.
• 23:53
  Cheryl: A picture of what we want to do because I know you value good nutrition in your family and you talked about it.
• 24:00
  Cheryl: You lived it out in your family and then you, and like me, I talked to my kids about why we eat vegetables over sugar and how much we do this and why we use olive oil, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:11
  Cheryl: but training them over the years, that's what the young years are for.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: It's the training years, and then, uh, I hate to let it go, but then we have to let circumstances and consequences become the teacher and the trainer instead of me, and that's the problem.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: When we helicopter, we want to keep doing the training.
• 24:33
  Cheryl: You know, if you hadn't done that, if you had turned that paper in on time, did you do that?
• 24:38
  Cheryl: I mean, Again, I know moms, and they are calling their college students.
• 24:45
  Cheryl: Yes, I've heard those stories.
• 24:46
  Cheryl: Yes, to turn their papers in.
• 24:49
  Cheryl: And did, not listening about it, but calling them to, did you get that paper turned in on time?
• 24:55
  Cheryl: I mean, I understand why I don't want them to fail, except I do want them.
• 25:00
  Cheryl: To develop resilience and you can't develop resilience without failure and you make your
• 25:05
  Ellen: Children insecure, over controlling that because you're saying, I don't think you're competent enough to do this apart from me
• 25:15
  Christie: And anxious.
• 25:17
  Christie: There's so much Anxiety involved when you are always second guessing.
• 25:22
  Christie: Oh gosh, I, my mom's not here to tell me what to do.
• 25:25
  Christie: I don't know what the right decision is.
• 25:27
  Christie: Even if they're not consciously thinking that, it's, you've still developed a habit where they've been told what to do or nagged to remember what to do all of their life.
• 25:36
  Christie: How are they going to have the skills to?
• 25:40
  Christie: Take initiative on things
• 25:41
  Ellen: or they do things they don't believe in internally for the Because they don't want to disappoint you as a parent because I've had one of my children say well I did this because I didn't want to disappoint you and and I said, oh, I'm sorry I didn't want that to be your motivation,
• 25:57
  Christie: right?
• 25:58
  Christie: I knew someone who Said their parents would always say well what you should have done was this what what I would what I would have done was This and I thought oh what a heavy and this was a grown adult Yeah, and I just thought uh, I don't want to do that to my kids So I try to be mindful of that, but I know You know, it's easy to see all the things that you want to say.
• 26:21
  Christie: I know my girls now in their, you know, young adult years will come and sit and process an idea with me and just blabber about it.
• 26:30
  Christie: And I love listening, but it's that processing that I get to watch their problem solving skills as they're playing out.
• 26:39
  Christie: A lot of times I do want to say, well, what I would have done, you know, but instead I think one thing I've found better to say is, well, what do you think you'll do about that?
• 26:48
  Christie: Or how do you think you'll handle that?
• 26:50
  Christie: And just leaving that question out there shows that I am interested.
• 26:54
  Christie: I do care, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you what to do.
• 26:57
  Christie: I would say to my
• 26:57
  Ellen: kids, do you want me to help you solve the problem?
• 27:00
  Ellen: Do you need some advice?
• 27:01
  Ellen: Most of the time it was no.
• 27:03
  Ellen: Right.
• 27:03
  Ellen: They just wanted to tell me.
• 27:05
  Ellen: But once I learned to ask if they wanted some advice, and they felt free to say, no, I don't want any, then it cleared the playing field and it was fine.
• 27:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:13
  Christie: I think something too that's helpful early on.
• 27:16
  Christie: And maybe, you know, even in the younger teens, but helping narrate that problem solving.
• 27:22
  Christie: This is why I'm doing this.
• 27:24
  Christie: This is why I'm making this choice for myself.
• 27:26
  Christie: And then also in the discipline I have for my child, hey, I don't want to have to do this, but here's why I'm going to have to give you this consequence.
• 27:35
  Christie: And so that they know it's not just to be controlling or naggy.
• 27:38
  Christie: It's, it has a
• 27:38
  Cheryl: purpose.
• 27:39
  Cheryl: Very good.
• 27:40
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 27:40
  Cheryl: We are out of time again.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: It's a big topic.
• 27:43
  Christie: We could talk all day.
• 27:45
  Cheryl: so when I'm listening to us, because I was just fascinated, I got listening to the conversation, and forgot, oh yeah, we're recording.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: Um, I see what we're talking about, that I choose to love my child more than I love myself.
• 27:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Cheryl: And I have to be willing to be humble enough to serve them.
• 28:04
  Cheryl: What's best for them instead of what I would really
• 28:07
  Ellen: like
• 28:07
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 28:08
  Ellen: and just search our motivations.
• 28:10
  Ellen: Yes, at least once a day, right?
• 28:12
  Ellen: Am I doing this for me?
• 28:13
  Ellen: So I look good or that it's not embarrassing or that causes a problem or right?
• 28:18
  Ellen: You know is what Cheryl saying is this really what's best for me?
• 28:22
  Ellen: That's
• 28:22
  Christie: really good.
• 28:23
  Cheryl: Hey, thank you so much Parents remember hang in there.
• 28:29
  Cheryl: Keep loving keep persevering because it's worth it
• 28:38
  Thank you for joining us today on the Parenting Podcast.
• 28:42
  Honestly, our conversation got so absorbing that I nearly forgot that we were recording.
• 28:49
  Balancing engaged parenting with allowing our children to make choices and sometimes mistakes.
• 28:56
  Is indeed a challenge as Christy wisely pointed out.
• 29:01
  We don't merely hope for independence.
• 29:04
  We need to actively encourage and nurture it.
• 29:10
  However, this journey does require patience as we strive not to let our helicopters disrupt that precious bridge of our parent child relationship.
• 29:21
  What's your biggest struggle in finding this balance?
• 29:25
  Is it the urge for control or the fear of tough consequences?
• 29:32
  Don't hesitate to reach out.
• 29:34
  DM us on social media.
• 29:36
  Visit our website or simply text us, contact, at theparentingpodcast.
• 29:41
  com.
• 29:43
  Next week, we're turning our TPP focus to the early years, uh, below age six.
• 29:50
  We hope to have you with us again.
• 29:52
  Until then, keep parenting with heart and purpose.