Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 73: Baby Don't Hurt Me

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Ep. 73: Baby Don't Hurt Me · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Hello, world. How are you?
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, world. Tell us how you're doing.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I can't hear you.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: You wanna know why? Because this is a podcast.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Hey, should we do live content sometime?
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Honestly Because
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I think it could be No.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's a terrible idea.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Bad for us. Because here's the thing. I am just as surprised as everybody else is with what comes out of my mouth. And luckily, we go through and edit these podcasts. So, you know, a lot of my stupidness is cut out.
• 1:14
  But not all. But not all.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I do leave a good chunk of it in.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Just for the funnies. That's generous of you.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. So as we discussed last week, by the time you hear this episode, we will be home from Disney.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Poo poo.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not I'm not excited about it. Currently, we haven't gone yet. Mhmm. Because we prerecorded a couple of episodes so that we wouldn't have to, like, sit in a hotel room and awkwardly record a podcast.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: That could be fun. Live from Disney.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think Disney will let us record live. I feel that they may frown upon that.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: No, they love feminism. Look at all the princesses. They love women.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I know I've referenced this before. But every time I think about that, I think of that Full House episode where Jesse and Joey have like a a radio show or something.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And they go and they record their radio show underwater in Disney, like at an aquarium in Disney. And like, this is a fully normal event. Like, this is just a thing that we do. Should we do that? We should ask.
• 2:22
  Underwater? Yeah. Probably. Who do we ask? Those of you out there.
• 2:27
  You got any connections? I'll be the first
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: to say, I don't want to. I don't want to go underwater and record a podcast. But what if
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: we could go what if we could pick the spot? What if it's like top of Cinderella's Castle?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: That would be fine. Alright. Not underwater though. Not underwater. And not in space.
• 2:46
  Space scares me. Okay.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: If you guys aren't Disney adults, you don't know about this. But if you are, you're with me. There is a restaurant in Epcot?
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Is it in Epcot? Hollywood Studios?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. At Disney somewhere. And it's called Space two twenty. And essentially, the concept is like, you're supposed to be going up into space and then you eat dinner in space. No.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yuck.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And you have to go up this elevator and the elevator is meant to look like you're leaving earth. Mhmm. Now I have a deep fear of heights. And while I can do many things that like would be that are high up. I can ride roller coasters, whatever.
• 3:27
  The idea of getting into that elevator, even though it's a simulation, petrifies me. Why? I don't know. I would puke. It would not be a good time.
• 3:38
  None of it's real. Tell that to my brain.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: My brain doesn't know. When you go on the Avatar ride, do you think you're really riding those creatures?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: No. Because I can look down and see the ground. But if I think it's a window to the outside, I I don't know. There are people out there that are with me on this. No.
• 3:57
  Yeah. Least two of them. I know. At least two people are
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: with you Well, and your other
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: know, me and her get along really well.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Just here, I'm a really great therapist. Ready? Right. Just tell your brain to stop. Oh, right.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: That reminds me of Brie's been watching or not really watching, listening to this musical called Death Becomes Her. It just came out this year. And there's a scene where one of the women is sitting with a therapist. Like, she's She's in a psych ward. They call it a health spa.
• 4:36
  And she's talking to a therapist, and the therapist is basically just like, well, just don't do that anymore. Just stop it.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Just stop. As someone who's
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: been in therapy for a very long time,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's how it works. No. Yeah. That is. Oh.
• 4:51
  Depression, anxiety, any of the oddities. Just tell yourself to stop.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. I must be going to really different therapists then, really unique ones.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I don't know if you can tell this because this is a podcast, but I'm being sarcastic out there, world. Don't worry. Don't come for her. I promise.
• 5:16
  I believe in therapy, real therapy.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: And even if she didn't, I've been in it for what? Seven years now? So there you go.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: There you go. Anyway, so this week. This week. On the We Are More podcast. On the We Are More podcast.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: We are gonna be talking about what is love.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Baby, don't hurt me. There you go. I thought you were gonna join.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: No. I knew it was coming out of you, so I didn't have to say it. Last week, we talked about what is sin, and we took kind of a biblical perspective of what sin looks like and what the church has made it into. Mhmm. But what we can kind of boil it down to and find out what is sin.
• 5:59
  And we kind of landed on sin is not loving God and not loving others. Mhmm. It's pretty simple. It's not overly complicated. It's not a list of things.
• 6:11
  There's not thousands of laws that you have to follow in Christianity. It's it's basically those ones.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If you boil everything down, you're right. At the end of the day, are you loving God and are you loving the people around you? And if you're not doing those two things,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you were living a sinful life. Right. So we kind of wanted to then talk about what is love because don't you sing it again. I saw the light in your eyes. Do you know how many times you will be singing that throughout this episode?
• 6:47
  I'm gonna kick it in
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: the butt. I'm hoping that by the end of this episode, people are just like, I need to go listen to that song. And then all of a sudden, that song trends across the universe, and we're all just singing together. She's bopping. You can't see it
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: because this is a podcast, but I promise she is. Anyway, so we left you on a cliffhanger last week of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: what what could love be. What could love be? And we are the ones who need to tell you. We have the answers.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Because if you're looking at all of this and you're like, okay, well, my main job is to love God and love others. Like, what is that? What does that look like? Because I think a lot of the church today thinks that they're, well, maybe deludes themselves into thinking that they're being loving by being judgmental.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. By kicking people out of their churches. By calling out other people and what they think their sins are. Right. And not necessarily looking inwardly.
• 7:52
  Right.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: But in my mind, none of that is love. Mhmm. You can look at me and you can say, well, you know, sometimes love is harsh. Sometimes love is calling out the other person's sins, the other person's, I don't know, shortcomings, whatever. And I think that there is a moment in life where you could say, in a loving way, I'm coming to my best friend in the world.
• 8:14
  Not random strangers.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Someone that you know very well.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Right. Like, I'll sit down with Brie and say, you know what, Brie? You're cussing a little bit too much, and it's making me uncomfortable. And I'll say, bleep bleep. But I think there are moments where, like, you can call someone out on their crap.
• 8:32
  Mhmm. But it's in context. It's in context of this is someone I know really well that I have a
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: great relationship with. Or I think it could be seen as, like, someone who is saying that they know and love Jesus and represent them in some way calling out their bad behavior. Does that make sense? So like the White House.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, to look at like a bigger organization and say, this doesn't represent God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
• 9:02
  But I think if we're looking at how do I interact with the general world, not my best friend, not, like, really specific circumstances, you know, but, like, how do I interact with society? Mhmm. What does that look like to be loving, to live a loving life? So I looked up what Jesus specifically says about love. Because we talked last week about how, you know, Paul has a lot to say throughout the New Testament.
• 9:25
  A lot. He's a
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: lot to say. Honestly, what like, I know he was in prison and stuff, but there's gotta be other stuff to do. You could write a musical. He kinda did.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to specifically find out what Jesus himself said. Because even though the whole Bible, including Paul, has lots of great things to say, really, the main things we wanna focus on are what did Jesus say? Mhmm. So Jesus had, not surprisingly at all, a lot to say about love. Mhmm.
• 9:56
  And I looked up two versions of all of these. I'm not gonna read all of them, but I looked up the NLT and The Message, which I find to be two of the more readable translations.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: The Message is actually not a translation, but two of the more readable versions of the Bible, I guess.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Less these and thou's. Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: But feel free to look these up in whichever translation you prefer. So the first one there's some topics here of like, love is this. So the first one is love is devotion to God. Mhmm.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Makes sense.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Pretty simple. And that comes from Matthew twenty two thirty seven through 38. And the NLT says, love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: That's a callback. We mentioned it on the last episode.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Look at us go.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Were you listening? Cohesiveness. Mhmm. Full So wise. So wise.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: So that's a pretty simple one. Pretty self explanatory. Love God.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Easy. Right? With everything you have.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. Then what does that look like? So love is caring for others as yourself. So then right after that verse, right after Jesus says love God, he says, a second is equally important.
• 11:12
  Love your neighbor as yourself. And we'll go into that neighbor concept a little more in a minute. But really simply, like we said last week, love God, love others, and love yourself.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we've talked about this in a previous episode, but that means that you have to be loving and caring towards yourself too. And make space for your own peace of mind.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Self care, baby. However that looks. You know, maybe some people it's bubble baths. Other people it's Disney vacations. You know, to each their own.
• 11:43
  To each
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: their own. So then here's some how to's from Jesus. Love is forgiving and praying for your enemies. This is a really hard one, to be totally honest. Because I'm thinking of the people that in my mind are my enemies.
• 11:58
  Mhmm. And I don't like them.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we've talked about this before too. Forgiving doesn't mean you continue to let that person hurt and abuse And
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you let them continue on because I'm thinking of Mhmm. Some specific political figures. And it doesn't mean that you support what they do, that you endorse what they do. Mhmm. It can mean that you say, this does not represent me or my faith.
• 12:26
  Mhmm. And stand against injustice because that Jesus does talk about that later. Mhmm. But the verse specifically, it's Matthew five forty four. And the message says, here's what I want you to do.
• 12:39
  Love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. Mhmm. So I like that one because it's a little more clear where it says it it the NLT says, you know, pray for those who persecute you. But the message is really clear.
• 12:53
  Don't let your enemies drag you under. Yeah. And then love is sacrificial.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Like a lamb.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In John, Jesus says that there's no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. But we've talked about this in the past. It's not just dying for your friends. It's living for them too.
• 13:16
  Laying down your life doesn't mean automatically death. It means your your actual life. Yeah. Giving your life in service to to your broader community, to the people in your world.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not being selfish with your time and your assets.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Giving to those people around you, supporting those people around you so that they have a fulfilling life too. Right. And then love through obedience. In
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: John, Jesus says, if you love me, obey my commandments. Or in the message, it says, if you love me, you'll do what I say.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Now I because I told you to.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I just wanna point out a lot of the pastors that we've referenced recently talk about obedience from a wife to a husband. Mhmm. That's not what Jesus is saying here.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: We like to take verses and make them bigger and make them mean more than Jesus actually ever meant them to mean. This literally says, if you love me, me being Jesus Mhmm. Just Jesus. Not your husband. Not your pastor.
• 14:18
  Not the random guy down the street. Just Jesus. If you love me, obey my commandments. Again, just Jesus' commandments. It's really simple.
• 14:28
  We don't need to meet make it bigger than it is. And then love being humble service. So in Mark, Jesus says, for even the son of man came not to be served, but to serve others and to give his life as ransom for many. Or the message says, give his life to rescue many. Mhmm.
• 14:47
  So again, that's just living your life in a way that focuses on other people.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: It's not all about you. Mhmm. Sometimes it's about you. Sure. But it's not always about you.
• 15:01
  And it's just living your life in a way that you're opening your eyes to that. Mhmm. I think that's an adjustment for people. Like opening your eyes to what other people are going through. And maybe it's simple little things like, oh, that person dropped their keys on the ground.
• 15:19
  I can grab them for them. Or just like little things, opening your eyes to other people.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I think too, it's recognizing that my experience isn't everyone's experience.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it's really easy for us to sit in our churches that are one demographic Mhmm. And say this experience is the broader human experience. But the reality is when you look outside of your bubble, people of different races have a different experience. People of different genders have a different experience. People from different countries have a different experience.
• 15:52
  Everybody's got their own life experience. And you have to allow for that. Mhmm. When you make decisions. Like, when you make a decision on how to vote, when you make a decision on how to interact with your community, you have to take into account not just your own perspective Mhmm.
• 16:10
  But other people's perspectives as well. And you have to believe them when they tell you Yeah. This is my life experience. And I think that's what Jesus is saying here, to serve others in a big, big way. Not in the small little way of like, I'm I'm gonna volunteer one day at a soup kitchen.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Or even I would argue, like, missions trips.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, there's nothing wrong with missions trips, depending on what that mission is and what, you know, you're representing. But once a year or once every couple of years is not that I don't know how to say I don't wanna say not that great. But, like, there's so much more to life.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Right. I think you have to think of your life as how broad of an impact can I make? Mhmm. If you're spending one week in service to God a year or every two years or you volunteer on Sundays, but then the rest of the week, you live a selfish lifestyle. That's not making a broad impact.
• 17:18
  You might make a momentary impact. You might help for a second. But people know you by who you are at your core. Mhmm. We talked about this last week.
• 17:29
  People know when you are that dynamic, loving, caring person. And your one moment of generosity once
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a year or once every two years is not gonna create that. And I think part of life is building these relationships with people that are lasting. And they come and go throughout the years, but it's really hard to build a long lasting relationship with someone that you meet for a couple of days. Mhmm. It's a lot easier to impact your community around you too.
• 18:04
  And when you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: do that, you're gonna see those ripple effects. Mhmm. It's like what's that movie? The one where the little boy does, a nice thing and then he wants two more people to do the nice thing and two more whatever. It's like an MLM of nice things.
• 18:18
  I don't remember the name of it. But it it's kind of like that. You know, if you impact one person and then they impact two people and then they impact two people etcetera etcetera. That's a bigger pool of people that can go out and and share the gospel.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say the giving tree, but that's not That's not it.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I can't I just remember the little boy dies at the end. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It's not a happy movie.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: It's one of those movies that you see once, like, the pursuit of happiness.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, wow. That was really impactful. And then you're like, I don't wanna watch that again.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: You never see it again. Mm-mm. It's massively depressing. So the last verse in this section that I wanted to end on is love being the mark of Jesus' followers. John thirteen thirty four through 35 says, so now I'm giving you a new commandment.
• 19:06
  Love each other just as I have loved you. You should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I would like to say, notice that that doesn't say wear a cross around your neck or on your shirt. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but people will know you by the love that you give. And if you are choosing to wear a cross or some other marking that you're a Christ follower, you better be sure Mhmm. That you are living your life in a loving way. Mhmm.
• 19:40
  Because the second that you don't, people are gonna associate your bad behavior with the cross.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, I'm thinking of our press secretary right now. I think she's our press secretary. The
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: bland lady.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Mhmm. Constantly wears a cross. Always wears a cross necklace. And it's a political statement.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Like, we as a government are Christian, I guess. Mhmm. And so now everything that comes out of her mouth, because she's really predominantly wearing this cross necklace, everything that comes out of her mouth, if you're not a Christian, if you're not someone that follows God, you're like, is this what the Christians think? Mhmm. Is this really what they think?
• 20:25
  And when you don't represent love, but you're wearing that cross necklace, you're attributing all your bad behavior to Jesus. Mhmm. I also wanted to talk about the neighbor situation. Right? Because last week, we talked a little bit about loopholes and how when you focus your faith on following rules, you also conveniently focus on loopholes.
• 20:52
  Because, of course, we do. We're people. Mhmm. We don't wanna do the thing. So how do we get around doing the thing?
• 20:58
  Mhmm. So in the Bible, in Luke chapter 10, Jesus is telling this story of or he gives this message and says, love your neighbor as yourself. Right? Mhmm. So this man comes up to him and he says, okay, Jesus.
• 21:14
  Well, who's my neighbor? Who do I actually have to be nice to? Because I don't wanna be nice to everybody. So where's my loophole, Jesus? So Jesus responds with this story.
• 21:27
  Jesus is great at telling stories. And I'm gonna be honest with you. If I was, like, hanging out with him, I'd be like, my gosh. Could you just say that thing?
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Can you just give me the answer, please, and not let me decipher that for myself? It's really complicated. Mhmm.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Jesus is a little complicated sometimes. But he gives this parable. And if you haven't read it, I would encourage you to read this section. Like I said, it's in Luke 10. But the the gist of it Mhmm.
• 21:55
  Is that there is a man, a Jewish man, and he is walking from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he's attacked by robbers. He's beaten. He's left on the side of the road. He's going to die. And three people walk past him.
• 22:11
  The first one that walks past him is a priest, so a religious leader.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: That's a joke.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: No. The second is a Levite, who I believe also is, like, someone high up in the church. And then the last is a Samaritan man. Now the Jews and the Samaritans are not on good terms at this point. And so of all the people to help him, the Samaritan man would be unlikely to help him.
• 22:38
  But the the first two passed right by. They were like, I don't wanna get involved here. Like many of us would. I I don't think that that's an uncommon reaction to tragedy. Yeah.
• 22:51
  Like, I don't wanna get involved. I don't have time today for this business.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Or it makes me uncomfortable. Right. So I'm not gonna put myself in that situation.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But the last man, the Samaritan man, does stop and picks the man up, carries him to the nearest city, and then pays for him to stay in a space and heal. Mhmm. Doesn't do it out of anything that's gonna help him. He knows that him and this man are essentially enemies because there's a racial divide going on there. Mhmm.
• 23:24
  But he still does, just out of the goodness of his heart. And so Jesus asks the man at the end of the story. He says, which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who was attacked by robbers? And the man replied, the one who showed him mercy. So Jesus said, yes.
• 23:41
  Now go and do the same. So he doesn't really define what a neighbor is. It's just anybody that you see that needs you. Mhmm. Anybody.
• 23:54
  It's really simple. We make it so complicated. We do this to the Bible all the time. Because like I said last week, like, we've made an industry out of religion. And an industry without rules and regulations feels a little too hippie for us.
• 24:11
  But if we can just say, my neighbor is everyone, everyone that god puts in my path. I don't have to run out and try and find random people or something. But anyone that god puts in my path, that is my neighbor. And that is someone I'm supposed to love.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I think growing up in church, they would always say, at least our faith, we believe that it's very simple. The plan of salvation is very simple. Mhmm. You just have to accept God into your heart. You don't have to do anything more.
• 24:44
  You don't have to earn your way into heaven because you couldn't do that. Jesus did that for you. But I don't understand why we've complicated everything else surrounding our religion. Because it is really that simple. Love God, love others.
• 24:59
  Who should you love? Everybody.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Even if they don't look like you, even if they're not your favorite person, even if you have to put yourself out a little bit. Mhmm. You should be unconditionally loving these people around you, outrageously loving the people around you because that's what Jesus did. But we've really complicated things. We've put so many rules onto
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: our faith that Jesus really never said. It's because we don't wanna. I mean, really, like, we don't want to do this stuff. The rules are easier. If it's just rules on rules on rules, okay, cool.
• 25:39
  But if we have to figure out what love looks like and interact with people we don't like, then life becomes a little more uncomfortable. Mhmm. And we don't wanna do that. I looked up a few quotes about love from female pastors because I just feel like we don't get to hear their voices a lot. When you look up, like, pastoral quotes about love.
• 26:01
  You're not it's not automatically coming up with women. It's just not. Two of the people that I did wanna highlight, and there are some great quotes out there from many female pastors that you can look up about love. But two of my favorites, one of whom was a pastor, one I don't think is a pastor, but she's just like a really amazing biblical scholar. So the first one is Sarah Bessie who wrote Jesus Feminist.
• 26:27
  Spectacular book. We actually made our grandmother read it recently. Well, mom did.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: She read a few pages.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: She read a few pages. We're working on it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. So here's two quotes
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: from her. The first one says, may we be the ones who hold our opinions loosely and yet love ferociously. Let your opinions not be the most important thing in the room.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Let them not create barriers between you and another person. Mhmm.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Your faith shouldn't be the thing putting up walls between you and other people. Mhmm. Now if they're a bad influence on you, if they're a problem in your life Yeah.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Build that wall a little higher.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Right. But you know that. You know when someone is actively a detriment to your own life. Mhmm. Most people.
• 27:20
  That's not the case. Most people, we put up walls because people make us uncomfortable. Mhmm. Because they make us face things we didn't wanna face. And so just just let your opinions be a little less important than love.
• 27:35
  I think that's what she's saying. So the second quote I have from her is it references something that Jesus says. One soul is as important as 99, worth leaving everything behind to rescue. If there is one soul in your care, one face in your loving gaze, one hand in yours, then you are loving the world.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: And that comes from another parable. Right? Jesus said, where there's a shepherd and he has a whole flock of sheep, but one of them goes missing. And he goes out in the middle of the night to find that one sheep because he cares about that one sheep Mhmm. As much as he does the other 99.
• 28:14
  And that's what I think she's referencing. Mhmm.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: And that to me, that means it doesn't matter who God puts in your path. God is gonna put people that stretch you, that make you feel uncomfy, that have opinions that are different than yours.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Because no two people are exactly the same, and we shouldn't be.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: No. But whoever that happens to be I and I've been in many a church service where they're like, we want you to think of, like, the one person that god's put in your life to pray for. And that's always as far as it goes. Think of one person to pray for. Write down that person and pray for them every day.
• 28:56
  Pray for them every day. Now that's important. Mhmm. You should pray for them. Talk to God about them.
• 29:01
  Have those conversations. But don't just pray for them.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe call them and see if they're doing okay. Yeah. Because I think that's something that we don't do as often as we should is listen to that little voice in our head. Mhmm.
• 29:15
  Let God speak to us. And maybe you had a weird dream about someone. Or maybe just for some reason someone's name dropped into your head. Maybe God put it there. Mhmm.
• 29:26
  And you should reach out and say, hey.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: You doing okay? I'm alright. You need somebody you need a casserole?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, I got you. Everybody needs a casserole.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I love a casserole. Do you remember we haven't made in a while that chicken cobbler.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: That's a good casserole. That was a
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: good casserole. Loved that one. Now you guys know. You can look it up on TikTok. It's all over the place.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: It was very popular on TikTok. It's great.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: The second two quotes I wanna read are from Rachel Held Evans. And we've referenced her before, but she was a pastor. She was an author. She wrote a year of biblical womanhood and several other books as well and really truly was an incredible leader. Unfortunately passed away several years ago now, but these are a couple of quotes from her.
• 30:14
  She says love defies expectations. I think perhaps that's why I keep bumping into theologians and religious leaders who turn their noses up at the suggestion that love is the most fundamental element of Christianity. Now she was a very controversial figure when she was alive Mhmm. Because she welcomed everyone into her faith, into her church, into her books, into her everything. Like, any gender, any race, very welcoming to the LGBTQ community.
• 30:49
  Just like there was no no holds barred to the love that she was willing to offer the world. And so she was super controversial because of that. When I entered this feminist space, I remember hearing like, oh, well, but you can't listen to
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: her. Mhmm. Well, it's just strange to me that idea that you should exclude people Mhmm. From your church. Because did Jesus exclude you when he died on the cross?
• 31:14
  Mhmm.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: No. Well, we like to rank sins. My sins aren't as bad as this person's sins. I've decided that their life is sinful from here. Or decided that it's a sin.
• 31:28
  Right. A lot of churches will say, okay. Well, because you are committing this particular sin, and I'm using air quotes, but you can't see them, you can't be part of our congregation. You can't be part of our church family because we are looking at your sin and we're calling it worse than our sins. Mhmm.
• 31:47
  And it's this hierarchy. I'm better than you. I'm gonna sit up here and I'm gonna judge you.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is which sin is the most visible.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Because there's a lot of, I mean, let's talk about it. In the Christian church, there's a lot of abuse Mhmm. Historically with people in power Mhmm. Because they think that they can get away with it. Or I guess it's just more hidden
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Than someone who's choosing to love someone with the same gender as them.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Yeah. And you can see that all over the place. I mean, I can point to two churches in our community very recently
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: That had really bad situations with pastors, really dangerous situations with pastors. And yet they were not the ones that were being called out until there was just nothing else the church could do, until it became so public that they couldn't hide it anymore.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. You don't wanna ever tarnish their shine? Their shine.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Their shine. Shine bright, shine far? Yeah.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Be a star. Because that could cause, I guess, questions from people, and you don't want to cause them to question anything. But I think God encourages that. I think God encourages questioning your faith and questioning people in power. Mhmm.
• 33:19
  And making sure that they're doing what they should be doing. Well, there's this whole
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: concept of if you call out the church, if you call out pastors, then outside people are gonna look at that and they're gonna think, oh my gosh. Look what's happening in the church. I don't wanna be part of that. But my opinion is if you don't call it out, then when it all does blow up in your face, because it will. Mhmm.
• 33:46
  I mean, we can see it happening everywhere. Those people that are outside of the church are gonna look at it, and they're
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: gonna be like, that was happening in the church and everybody knew about it? But also, that promotes that kind of behavior to continue. Yes. Because other people in power will see that and say, oh, this is normal. This is okay.
• 34:05
  These are things that I can get away with. Mhmm.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: And it's okay because he did it. Right. So the second quote from Rachel Held Evans, it's like the warm and fuzzies sort of quote. Mhmm. So if you're waiting for that in this episode, here we go.
• 34:18
  Here we go. Love. She says, what each of us longs for the most is to be both fully known and fully loved. Miraculously, God feels the same way about us. So I think that's twofold.
• 34:31
  Mhmm. I think she's saying there that God does fully know and fully love us. That means he fully knows all the things that you do. The good and the bad things, the struggles that you have, the weird fear of heights as you go up elevators, all the things. And he fully loves you.
• 34:49
  Not in spite of them. He made you as you are. So he loves you as you are, not in spite of who you are. Have we
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: talked about this before where there was someone, like, picturing God making people upstairs in the sky? You know? Take me a minute to Unprepared. Get this idea out of my head and out of my mouth.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Hold on. Let me pull it. Ready? But
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: all of the little attributes that you have, all the little quirks, all of your interests, God was like, oh, I need a person who has a little bit of this and a little bit of that. Mhmm. And I don't want them to like heights, even simulations. And I want them to have, you know, a tendency to like crazy colored hair. And I'm going to make this person.
• 35:41
  Boom.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: There you are.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: And God made all of the little pieces of you, the hard things, the good things, everything, to fill a space that he needed. Not just like, ah, well, I'm gonna make a person today and whatever happens happens. But there was there was a need in the world. And so he made you to fill that need in the world.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Because we're supposed to be the hands and feet of Jesus after he left. Mhmm. Right? After he was crucified, after he went back to heaven, now we have to act as Jesus on this planet. He can't get by without his pinky toes.
• 36:27
  So even
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you. Even you, the pinky toe.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: You have purpose. You have meaning. You are part of the body of Christ.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Literally. Well, even when you feel like I have nothing to give. And there have been countless moments in my life Mhmm. Where I felt like I have nothing to give, whether it's financially, whether it's time, whether it's emotionally. Mhmm.
• 36:52
  Just not one thing. But there was a space that God made you to fill. And whatever it is, that's what you're here for.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And you have to be open to that too. You have to open your eyes to opportunities where you can be helpful and giving and loving and showing God's love. Maybe that time hasn't happened for you yet. But be ready because it's going to happen.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I think the second half of this quote too not the second half. The second aspect of it is that God wants us to fully know and fully love him. So having that relationship aspect. And in fully knowing God, we have to fully know who Jesus is. Right?
• 37:36
  Mhmm. Now I'm not gonna try and explain the Trinity here because I find it deeply confusing. But if Jesus is a representation of the personality of God Jesus came down and was a little bit of a hippie. We said this last week. He spent his life loving others and loving God.
• 38:01
  And that was pretty much it. Well, he
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: was going directly against the Roman law
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Which was oppressive and patriarchal. And he went against the people who said that they were religious leaders, and they knew religion the best.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: And they knew all of the rules, and they were keeping their eyes on him and making sure that he didn't break any of the rules and trying to catch him.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And he went against all of that.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I think you can see a major difference there in the way that people interacted, the way that society interacted with the pharisees versus the way that they interacted with Jesus. Mhmm. People were afraid of the pharisees. They came into town and people, you know, shut their doors, shut their blinds, hid under the, I don't know, stonework. Rug?
• 38:54
  Yeah.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I'm often hiding under rugs all the time.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Somebody comes knocking, I'm like, nope.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: They'll never notice this giant lump. Anyway.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: So they didn't wanna interact. Right? Like, because they were afraid of these people. Because these people were here to catch them in doing something wrong. Mhmm.
• 39:17
  That's what the modern church is. Yeah. They're out there trying to catch you doing something wrong.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Rather than shining a big spotlight on all the things that you could be doing right. Right.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: The best way to get somebody to do the right thing is not negative reinforcement. Mhmm. It's not you suck, you suck, you suck. It's my gosh, you're incredible. God made you to be incredible.
• 39:46
  He loves you exactly as you are. And in the space that you're in right now, emotionally, mentally, everything, he has something for you. Mhmm. You don't have to. It's like it's like if you're looking at a dress and you're like, oh, I would love to wear this dress, but I need to lose 15 pounds before I can wear this dress.
• 40:06
  Right? Stop waiting for the thing to happen and just just buy the dress in a bigger size. Do the thing now.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And just having someone be there with an outstretched hand and be like, like, come with me. Mhmm. Because this side of the grass is a lot better, but you don't have to do it alone. Right.
• 40:29
  And we're here for you.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: So I also looked up and we don't have time to go through all of these. Yes, we do.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: It's our podcast, not theirs.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: It's true. But I don't wanna sit here for another hour and a half, and neither do they. So I looked up what are some, like, non religious definitions of love? Like, what does the broader world think love looks like?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Elle is for the way you look. You know what? I just felt like I wasn't singing enough. Think everyone For was feeling an episode all about love, you know how many songs about love there are?
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Would you like to throw another one in?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I love you. You don't love me.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: How is that one? The first one. It's like right there.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Well, there's songs about love.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: There are a million songs about love. You just sang Barney. Anyway so I looked up all of these different things about love. All the diff different definitions of love. And is the bible representing the same type of love as the broader world wants to see?
• 41:37
  Mhmm. Because this is what the world wants to see. Does the bible tell us to do those same things? Mhmm. Or are we supposed to do something totally different, totally off the wall?
• 41:46
  Well, turns out, the way that the world wants to be loved is exactly how God says to love them.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Keep it simple, stupid. Yeah. So I'm gonna read just the little statement, and then I'll tell you a little bit about what the Bible says about So the definitions of love. It starts with emotional affection. Feelings of care, attachment, fondness, you know, you know what that feels like.
• 42:12
  I hope you know what that feels like. If you don't, seek it out. Stop that. You're welcome. No one wanted that.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Affection. And love.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: It was horrible. So in first John, the bible says, dear friends, let us love one another for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Wait. This is from dear John?
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. Taylor Swift?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's where it came from. Good work. And then love is commitment. So committing to someone over a period of time.
• 42:44
  It doesn't have to be forever. Like, not everyone's in your life forever. But committing to a relationship for some amount of time where you invest in that person. Mhmm. Or they invest in you.
• 42:57
  Or both. That's Sometimes
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: people are like seasons, I've heard. Summer paprika. Seasonings? You're so
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: strange. In first Corinthians 13 so these are the love is verses. And a lot of people use these for, like, romantic love. But they're really more talking about your relationships with others. And it says love is patient and kind.
• 43:23
  Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. So over your more extensive relationship with someone, when you find someone that God has put in your path to create this relationship with, you have to look to verses like this and say, like, love isn't jealous or boastful. It's not proud or rude.
• 43:45
  It doesn't demand its own way. It's not irritable. It doesn't keep a record of wrongs. It's patient and kind.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I'd like to do an episode on these versus love languages. That would be fun. Because love is so much bigger than just, like, two things.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Physical touch. And gifts. And gifts. Those are my favorite.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: So then love is compassion and empathy. And remember, this is what the world is saying it wants to see. So compassion and empathy, something that the church really struggles with as a whole. Mhmm. But the Bible says in James, finally, all of you should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: That's difficult. I feel like I anger pretty quickly. I hear you. But this is what the bible says. I'm still working on it.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Not the gospel of Brianna. We'll get to that one. We'll do
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: that episode later. That could be a good episode. That could be
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: a frightening episode. And then the next one is sacrifice. So love should cost you something. Oh, like $10? Yeah.
• 44:58
  Like $10.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: That's a cheap hooker. You know what I'm saying?
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: No. I'm not saying that love should cost you your dignity.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Dignity. Always dignity. What's that from? Singing in the rain.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, nobody's gonna get that reference. That's just an Us thing. I'm not saying that love should cost you too much. There are abusive situations where women stay because they think, well, love is pain. Love costs.
• 45:32
  Love is hard. That's not what I'm saying here at all. What I'm saying is that love should be sacrificial on both sides. Mhmm. The bible says greater love has no one than this to lay down one's life for one's friends.
• 45:51
  But that has to be a mutual agreement here. I'm going to sometimes put your needs ahead of my own. Yeah. And you're gonna sometimes put my needs ahead of your own. And we're gonna do that together because we have that sort of relationship.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be something like big and grand. Mhmm. It can be, I know that this person really likes Chick fil A. And I might prefer Taco Bell, but I'm gonna do Chick fil A today for them. Little Taco Bell tomorrow.
• 46:21
  You know, it's just simple, silly things.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or like, I know I'm exhausted after work, but I know that they need somebody tonight. So I'm gonna go over there and watch a movie with them. Mhmm. It can be that simple.
• 46:31
  Yeah. Sacrifice doesn't have doesn't mean it's certainly not one-sided, first of all. Mhmm. And it also doesn't mean sacrificing who you are as a person. But simply to say, I'm gonna live my life in such a way that you show yourself friendly.
• 46:48
  Mhmm.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Occasionally putting someone else first. But also remember, put yourself first sometimes. Care for yourself the same way that you care for someone else because you can't care for that person if your cup is empty. Mhmm. You need to use a body scrub once in a while.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Every now and again. Yeah. Light a candle. Light a candle. Now the next one makes me relatively uncomfortable, and I don't think this was the kind of love that I was talking about.
• 47:16
  But when I looked up the list Hey,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: would you like me to say it again?
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. It said passion and desire. Woah. I know. And the verse that got pulled up for this one was from Song of Solomon.
• 47:28
  And I'm just we're just we're not gonna we're gonna breeze past.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I would like to share a story with with our paedidians. Alyssa and I, one day, we were young, okay? I was no more than like eight. You were what? 10?
• 47:46
  Probably. I don't know. We thought we've shared a room our whole life. Not now. But growing up, we shared a room.
• 47:53
  And we thought, we're not tired. We don't want to go to bed. But what's something that would be allowed? Mhmm. What's a loophole here?
• 48:00
  Yeah. Let's read the Bible together. And so Alyssa opened the Bible With a flashlight. Oh, yeah. We're on our bunk beds looking for something good in the Bible to read.
• 48:11
  What do we turn to? Song of Solomon. Which, if you don't know, is like the sexy book in the Bible. At
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: one point, I read the word breasts, and I was like, oh, no. And I was like, what are those? So children out there, first of all, you shouldn't be listening to our podcast.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: But don't just open the Bible to the middle. Don't do it. Maybe start with the gospels. You know?
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: There's some stuff in the Bible. Okay? It's a wild ride. Alright. Let's breeze through the last because there's like six of them.
• 48:52
  So love should look like intimacy and connection. So not just physical intimacy, but, like, closeness, trust, vulnerability. And in first John, it says, this is how we know what love is. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. And I know we've said this before, but when the Bible talks about laying down your life for someone, it doesn't mean and you need to be willing to die for them.
• 49:20
  Because that's that's what we were taught
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: as kids.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Like, are you willing to die for your friends?
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Or even in a marriage situation Mhmm. Where the husband is supposed to lay down his life for his wife. Like, you need a protector.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. It's not talking about jumping in front of the bullet, guys. What it's talking about is laying down your life. The day to day living of your life for your friends.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Just like all the other things we just said. Taking the time to sacrifice things that you would want in service of someone else. Mhmm. It's that simple. And then mutual respect.
• 49:58
  In Philippians, it says do nothing out of selfish ambition, rather in humility to others above yourself. So respecting just just basic respect. These are easy concepts.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: R e s p e c t.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: R e s p e c t. The fact that love is an action instead of just, like, a passive thing. You know, I can passively, like, like the people that I don't know. I interact with, maybe. Bree's given me a look.
• 50:24
  Maybe I don't passively like them, but I could. It's an option. I'm giving you a
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: look because love is an action. I'm uncomfortable. Stop that.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Brie's gonna sing a really spicy song. From the window. Children, you really shouldn't be listening. But the first John says, let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth. Don't you sing a bad song again.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: No. I think that's totally true. Because we can preach to the high heavens about loving your neighbor. But the way people will notice it is from you actually physically doing it.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Taking action,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: not the other thing.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: They'll know something different if you
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: do Because, like, you can love people from afar in your heart as much as you want, but it's not very visible. Mhmm.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: And then I think the last thing to remember that's so important is that when you live life from this perspective of love, of loving God and loving others, when you root yourself really comfortably here, it's not just going to impact the world. It is, but it's also gonna impact you. Mhmm. It's transformative for you. It helps you grow and change.
• 51:41
  And in first Corinthians thirteen thirteen, it says, and now these three remain, faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. The bible says over and over again we just choose to ignore it. Over and over again, your commandment is to love. Go out and love.
• 51:57
  Love God. Love others. The greatest of these is love. 45,000,000,000 times. This is all we gotta do.
• 52:05
  Mhmm. If I could boil the whole podcast down to one thing, it's really simple. Love and respect people. It's really easy. We don't need to make it hard.
• 52:19
  You got this. There's a thought in there. At least one.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's a heart thing. Mhmm. Where's your heart at? Are you in a position where you're not so selfish? Mhmm.
• 52:38
  You're not only thinking about yourself. And, you know, life is weird, and it's like a wave thing. Right? So sometimes you're not feeling the most loving. And okay, I'll give you a pass.
• 52:51
  But you have to get yourself to a place where you are showing God's love. Mhmm. And maybe that's a process.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. I mean, I think it's a process for all of us. If we're saying that over time, your faith grows. Over time, you as a person grow. And this is our main commandment, my hope would be that we all grow in this.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest visual for me, and I we've said this, like, 10,000,000 times, but someone saying, like, you are Jesus' replacement here on Earth. Mhmm. He's not physically here on this Earth anymore, so you have to walk, talk, and act like Jesus
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: In his place. Mhmm. So act like it. Gosh darn it.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: She was wagging her finger
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: at me.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: But you couldn't see this because yet again, this is a podcast. Now next week, we are gonna be very home from Disney and so sad. Just so depressed. Wildly depressed. Yeah.
• 53:53
  So expect a whole different vibe from your favorite usually up sort of upbeat kind of people. You know what we should talk about? What is despair? You know, I'm not gonna do that to them. Next week, we're gonna do just a pretty simple react episode.
• 54:13
  We've done these before. But I have been saving memes like you just would not believe. I love a meme. I have a whole folder. And it's a shared folder because I know a tech thing sometimes.
• 54:27
  So Brie and I can both see it.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: You may know a tech thing,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: but I sure don't.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: Do I have access to this? Yes. You do. Oh, yeah. Supposedly, I do.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: It's alright. I'll show her. We're sitting on the
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: same bed. It's fine. They don't need to know that. We're sitting miles apart. We're sitting at a very long desk, and I'm wearing a tie.
• 54:51
  We're professional ladies.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: So next week, when you see us, when you hear us because it's bad guys. We'll be wearing ties. Anyway, so we will be very professional and reacting to very professional memes. Yes. And not
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: talking about despair and desperation. No.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: We would never do that to you. No. Well, I hope you've had some fun in this little miniseries. Mhmm. And I hope that it helps you to understand your faith in your world a little bit better and what God is asking of you.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And hopefully, it gives you a little Yeah. And I have nothing else to say.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Alright. Well, we'll see you next week, and we love you. Bye. We love you.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Bye. And that's all. That's it. There wasn't any more.