Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #160: Brian Call of Gritty Bowmen Talks Mental Toughness, Blacktails VS Whitetails & More

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #160: Brian Call of Gritty Bowmen Talks Mental Toughness, Blacktails VS Whitetails & More · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one sixty
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and tall the show. We are joined by Brian Call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of the Gritty Bowman podcast, and we discussed Brian's lessons
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: learned from applying white tail tactics to blacktail hunting his
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: first white tail bow hunt, and most interesting, the importance
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of mental toughness when hunting. In a particular conversation around
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: this topic mental toughness, which we get to late in
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the episode, I think is absolutely killer. Do not miss it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All right, Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, brought
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: to you by Sitka Gear. And today we've got we've
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: got a fun episode. We've got kind of a widely
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: diverse episode. UM, because in a little while here we're
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: gonna be joined by Brian Call of the Gritty Bowman.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And this conversation happened actually a couple of weeks back
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: while I was in Montana for that Sick Gear Converge
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: event that we talked about, UM, and me and Brian
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: got to talk about a whole slew of different things. Um.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Kind of interestingly, Brian listened to the Wired Hunt podcast
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: a lot and was able to take the information he
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: heard us talking about when comes to white tails and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: apply that to his blacktail hunting in Oregon. So we
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: talked about that. Um, we talked about his first white
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: tail hunt in Alabama, and then we get into some
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: really interest instant stuff related to mental toughness and the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: mental side of hunting. And that's probably my favorite part
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: of this whole conversation that we're gonna listen to here
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: in a second. So some good stuff. But um, but
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Dan wasn't there with us, obviously. I was there just
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: for this event. But Dan is with us now to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: catch up on some stuff, and there's lots lots for
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: us to catch up on. Right then, that's the fact
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Jack even busy man, well at least a day and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a half, I was that's good. That's good. Before we
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: get to that busy stuff, I wanna I wanna share
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit of an update with our audience about
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: something coming up and a change to something that's coming up.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I've talked a couple of times in the podcast about
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the fact that I'm gonna be speaking at the Quality
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Deer Management National Convention coming up, right. We've talked about
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: this a little bit. Well, you know, the plan was
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: for for us to do a live podcast recording down there,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and I've been running through a couple of different ideas
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of how we might be able to do that. But
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: finally I was like, you know what to do this, right?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I just have to somehow get my nine fingered co
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: host down to New Orleans somehow. So I had to
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: bribe your wife. I paid thousands and thousands and thousands
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of dollars for your wife to allow you to leave
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the house. Right, And you're gonna be joining me on
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the stage for the live recording of our podcast with
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: a special guest. I'm not going to talk about who
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that guest is going to be, but there will be
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: a third person with us, and he's someone I've wanted
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to have on the podcast for years, um someone who
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I think is a really interesting um hunter, and we'll
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: have some really great stuff to talk about. But you
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: will be there rocking the stage with me, and I'm
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: pumped about that. Man. How many people are gonna how
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  Speaker 1: many people are we going to be in front of?
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  Speaker 1: I'm guessing there might be five people that are interested
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: in hearing us Max. There might be five people, Okay,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I heard like two hundred. But if
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  Speaker 1: it's only five, yeah, I mean at that point, it's
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just like talking to the mountain in my office. Yeah. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna be a big draw, but
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: three to five people might be interested. I have no idea.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I mean I talked with Ben Harshein uh of hun
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Terra Maps the other day and he told me that
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  Speaker 1: this isn't like the A T A show. This is
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the age group here. Uh, like the fifty five and
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: older crowd, and guys like us are and I'm even
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: ten years older than you, but we are we're the minority. Well,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I say it's a little bit dramatic. It's definitely not
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  Speaker 1: just fifty five and over. I mean, I've been to
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  Speaker 1: the National Convention before. It's it's a diverse crew. Okay,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: but but there's certainly I think it's fair to say,
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  Speaker 1: maybe excuse a little bit towards a more mature group.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: But uh, but I think there'll be people that are interested.
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  Speaker 1: I'm excited and you know what we're gonna be talking
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: about and I've touched on this a little bit, but
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: really it's all gonna be about expanding your horizons as
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a deer hunter, something we talked about a lot here.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I'm particularly passionate about just going into places, trying new things.
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  Speaker 1: And I think in particular, I mean, I think a
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: lot of the guys that are practicing quality deer management,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: like really practicing it. Um, some of these guys they
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: own land or they've got a lease and they're managing
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: it and they're putting in habitat improvements and they're doing
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: great stuff, like awesome stuff off the Great deer Hunters.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I really enjoy that type of deer hunting too, but
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I think you sometimes get locked into doing the same
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: thing and you only do that one thing, and I
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: think you miss out a little bit when you don't
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  Speaker 1: try new ways of hunting, new experiences and hunting. So
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: my my hope with this is that you know, and
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: this is something we talked about in the podcast a lot,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: so this isn't anything new for our audience, but um,
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  Speaker 1: I hope that we can kind of inspire a few folks,
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  Speaker 1: maybe just one person that hey, you know what, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: do want to try something different once and you know what,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's possible given what these guys had to say.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: That's that's my hope. So we're to talk about how
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: to pull off these trips, how to have that kind
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of experience, how to get outside of your comfort zone. UM,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't know. I just love going to new places,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: trying new things. And UM, I think we'll be able
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: to pepper our guests with some questions. And I'm going
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to share a lot of my experiences and you've done
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: some of this and you can share some thoughts on that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Um and if if nothing else, just you're gonna look
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: very pretty up there on the stage dance. So I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: think that's key. I'll tell you what. You know, the
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: reason I did a podcast and not like a web
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: show is because of probably of my face. I have
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a face for radio. Yes, that's that's what they say.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's gonna be fun. I'm looking forward to it.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: And UM, I just I was like, you know what,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: if there's anyone that's gonna be there that wants to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: be part of a live wearingtome podcasts, they're gonna want
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the real deal. They're gonna want that real experience and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that that's you and me, buddy, that's you doing what
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: we're doing. I appreciate you inviting me. Yeah, I'm excited
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: about it. And I also I haven't even told you
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: about this, but I kind of and volunteering you to
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: do something. UM, and you can tell me, you can
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: tell me if you're not up for this about well, uh,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: it's quite possible, depends on how the night goes. UM.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: But I was thinking, would be really cool. You know,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's I'm sure there's gonna be some people
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: down there for this big event that um have followed
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: a Wired Hunt podcast and might be interested in and
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: you know, just hanging out with other Wired Hunt podcast listeners.
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  Speaker 1: And I was thinking, you know, the events that day, Friday,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: July one, when we'll be doing our live podcast. Um,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the events that day end at like seven o'clock, so
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: there's no like official events the rest of the evening.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it would be really cool
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: to do like a Wired to Hunt meet up anyone
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: down there who'd like to get together with some you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: some fellow white tail nuts and you and me and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: our guests. We're gonna pick a pick a location like
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: eight o'clock Friday night, and if you're interested, stop them,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: buy whatever bar restaurant we're at, and uh, have a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: drink with us. Say hi, talk about the podcast, anything
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: on your mind, and we'll just have a hang out.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: A bunch of us get together and have a good time.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: I'm eating Greet, I'm meeting Greet. What do you think?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I like the idea? But what time does my flight
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: leave Saturday morning? It is next morning. Oh boy, so
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna have to behave my you will
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: this will be Dan Johnson light. Yeah, no, no hard
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: alcohol exactly. It might be a good idea anyways, though,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So this is like this is like a forced filter
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: on on what you do. So it'll be fun, right right, absolutely,
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  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be cool. I'd like to meet some
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of the other guys, you know, some of the people
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: who listen to this and uh, maybe put a name
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: with a face exactly. So we're doing our live podcast
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  Speaker 1: recording at the National Convention, which is down in New Orleans,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and we are doing this at am on Friday, July.
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  Speaker 1: So if this podcast is coming out, you know this
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: is this podcast is basically coming out just a week
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: before we'll be speaking down there. So if you're already
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: going down there, if you live close by, you can
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: still sign up for the convention if you can get
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: a day pass if you want, or show for multiple days.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: It is really a tremendous event and there is an
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: amazing set of speakers and resources and seminars and things
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: going on there. It really is a great event. I've
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: been several times. It's always great, and um, we'd love
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to see you there this time with us there. So Friday,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: July one in the morning for the speaking and then
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: tentatively eight pm meet up that night. I do not
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: have a location picked out yet, but I'm gonna be
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: sharing that on the Wired Hunt Twitter account, Instagram, and
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Facebook as we get close sources. So just make sure
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you're following wired Hunt on social media and check that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: on Friday, and we'll make sure to give that location.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So anyone out there who wants to hang out, we'd
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: love to see on Friday. So that's the game plan, Dan,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: and uh, let's talk dear though, right, let's talk dear,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So tell me I got I got one question for
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you before we get started. Okay, have you checked your
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: cameras on your Michigan farm yet. I've not checked cameras, Okay,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: so you don't know if holy Field is walking around anywhere.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I know nothing, um all I know. I to get
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a little interesting tidbit. Um uh. The person I know
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: that lives near um this property sort of a friend
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: of mine, acquaintance of mine. Her husband told her that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: he's been seeing a really big buck in this bean
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  Speaker 1: field and he claims like two ft tall the wreck. Yeah,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and she called me and said, hey, if you you
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: might want to come and check out this field because
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: there's this really big buck that's been coming out. So
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I just heard about that a couple of nights ago.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I just got home from Missouri, so I haven't I
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to go check it out yet,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: but I'm gonna be heading out tonight probably to go
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: scope this area out and see if this happens to
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: be my man. So I'm excited. That'd be crazy, but yeah,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm excited that that he could be around,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: or any any nice buck like that could be around.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So it's that time of here. I'm just I'm just
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: pumped to see some big velvet bucks. Awesome, awesome, I uh,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I checked my trail cams man, uh, and I had
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a I finally got a day and a half to
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: where I could go do some um, some actual work
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and uh, kind of a long story short. I'm looking
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: at a little map right here, one to three, four,
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  Speaker 1: five stands prepped and ready to hunt in my traditional
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: rut spots UM for the upcoming season. And I checked
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: three trail cameras while I was out there. One I
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: didn't get too because it's in the way. It's way
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: far back of the farm. I'll let it soak just
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit longer. Um. Added another camera to a
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: mineral location that I didn't have one on before and uh,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and then walked out of the timber with poison ivy
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and uh and a lot of sweats. So I got
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: But the good thing is I got the work done.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And that's what that's what's most important. That is awesome.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I love when we get to be able to talk
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: about this stuff like I love the trail camera polls,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I love the summer projects, movement stands and everything. UM,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: like this is this is the chess match. A lot
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of it's happening right now that it's just a matter
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: of then executing on it or just you know, playing
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: it out, letting, letting the pieces fall where they may.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: In November, right now we're setting the stage. Um, so
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: this is this is it? Tell me what are these
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: news stands you hung or were these just like trimming
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: out and prepping current stands? Yeah? So I have of
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: those of those five, two of them had stands in
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the tree from the previous year. So the only thing
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I had to do was put the sticks up, loosen
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: up the strap, make sure it was safe, doing inspection
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: on it, cut uh like a handful of branches out
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: of the shooting lanes. So basically it was just maintenance.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: And the other three were full blown trim outs. And
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I would say out of the eight and a half
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: nine hours I was outside doing work on Saturday, um,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: i'd say about six or seven hours, we're put into
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: those three standard locations. Yeah. That's that's the real work
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: right there. Yeah. So can you tell me about these
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: locations or or one of these locations, like what's uh
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: why just set up there? What's what's going to make
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: these spots look good? And when you get hunt them? Right? Okay,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: So as you know, kid coming late September, so my
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: October you know, early season probably just isn't gonna happen
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: unless I'm hunting around home somewhere. But these stand locations
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: are historically good pinch points, right. Um, I've had tree
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: stands in there before, but not in these trees, So
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I mean you still have to go and do a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: complete trim out. Um. One is over a very popular
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: fence crossing that is in between the corner of a
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: pasture and a creek, uh with a really steep bank.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So the deer aren't going up and down it, They're
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: they're moving through that area. Uh. The other one is
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: another pinch point kind of where one random year I
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: set a trail camera down in this little crossing and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I got every mature buck on the property on this
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: one one little area. So I I I think I
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: told you this a little bit before. But there is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a small ridge that is in between two bigger ridges. Um,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: it's short shorter than the it's in the middle. So
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: imagine the ridge is looking like a W right with
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the middle one being shorter. So I had to set
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: up on the far left part of the W but
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: still get a shot into this pinch point. Becau was
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: my dear lab was showing that of the movement going
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: through that pinch point was happening on a northwest wind.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So if I was very like really close to the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: actually in the pinch point on a northwest wind, my
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: my my wind would be blowing over the middle ridge
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and and what I where I had sat in the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: past blowing up into a betting area, right, So I
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: knew that I had a I have I have to
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: hunt this on a northwest wind. I have to have
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a stand in there for north northwest wind. So I
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: had to move to the west just a little bit more. Um,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: so that went on a north northwest wind, my scent
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: is blowing up the left side of the small ridge
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and not going over the ridge into the betting area
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and blowing out into this pasture. So yeah, so um,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: just like basically really strategic move on stand location fifty
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: yards away from uh where I was the previous year.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And then it's crazy, this is what I've noticed that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: mice tree stand locations in the past couple of years
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: are less about a area and more about a specific trail, right,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and getting in micromanaging those stand locations so much that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you can get your access route into these stand locations
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to the point where you're not getting busted. You have
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the advantage from the time you walk into the time
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: you get to the stand, and then through historic either
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: trail camera pictures or intel from the stand, you know
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: what trail these deer are using. So the two pinch
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: points stands, I'm literally hunting one, maybe two shooting lanes
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: on the same exact trail. So I mean I set
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: these stands, these stands up at fifteen yards twenty yards
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: shots and just really hoping that on these on the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: correct winds, I'm getting I'm getting play, uh, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: from from those trails. That's exciting. I love how stuff
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: we talked about so much, you know, trying to fine
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: tune our sets. You know, we always talked about we
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: need to take that extra effort to to go and
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: make those small adjustments. And I like the fact that
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: sounds like you've done that here. Yeah. So and I
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: got another. So the third full blown uh trim out
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: was down in near a betting area. Right, So previously
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I hunted on a southwest south wind down in this
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: betting area because if I have anything north, it tends
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: to ride this creek ridge, this creek line in a
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: field edge and deer move up and down it all
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: the time, soul, because I'm gonna be using acts different
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: access routes to this area, like walking through cricks. This year,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I needed a place to hunt on a north wind
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: as well, So I have another stand that I walked
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: down there and I full blown trim out was probably
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: fifteen yards to twenty yards away from the stand that was.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So I have two stands within twenty yards of each other.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Is the old stands still there? Yep? Yep. I left
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: it there, and ever hunt that with a different wind
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: direction or something. Yeah, I have that stand there for
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: a south wind, and then the one, the one I
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: just trimmed out, is for a northwest north wind. Yea.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be one of those things where, um,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: depending on the wind, I'm gonna hunt the same area,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: but I'm using a different access route and a different stand.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, that's like I feel like that's so.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: That used to be one of those things earlier in
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: my like hunting time, where I was like, oh, that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: seems stupid. I have two stands right in the same
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: area on the same food source, so the same whatever,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: but the more and more I learned experience like that
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: is that's one of those little pro tips like, yes,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: having just the right angle with a certain wind direction
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: is worth having two different setups in a certain area. Um,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So then I
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: also did a you know, I don't know if this
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: has ever happened to you, and I'm sure it has.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: You walk into an area and I have this area.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: It's kind of a betting area, and I'm so anal
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: now about where I'm setting in, what tree that I'm
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: setting my stands in that I walked into this area
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and I said, okay, northwest wind. Okay, I'm gonna go
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to this. Uh, I'm gonna go to this tree and
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: set it up. But if it's a little out of
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the north, this one't work. Okay, So I can't do
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: that tree. So I ended up walking into this area
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and then walking right back out of it after about
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes of walking around it basically basically scouting because
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be one of those areas where even the
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: smallest a directional wind change is going to result in
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: me having to hunt out of a different tree in
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that area. So there's no point of pre hanging a
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: set in there unless I was hanging like six sets
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and I don't have that many tree stands. So this
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that area is gonna be a run and gun set. Specifically,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: there's not going because every every every change in wind
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: direction is going to result in a different area of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: this this this point of a ridge slash betting area
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that I'm gonna have to hunt in. Did you trim
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: any like lanes out? It's just in like preparation for
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: having a couple of spots to throw a tree standing
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: on the running gun or no? Nope. The only thing
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: that I did was, um, I cut down a small
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: tree that was in between kind of a four like
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: four tree area that had the possibility to know, Okay,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut this tree down and it's gonna lead
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to me if having to shoot trim one less shooting
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: lane when I go in there for my running gun.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, so you've got you've got a good set, Yeah,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a good plan set in place. Now how many how
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: many more trips do you plan on going in here
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to make justments? Or are you done? Are you set
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: with this farm? If I do anything, there's gonna be one,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: potentially two more stands that I'm gonna be hanging, um,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and that will be a one time deal when I
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: go in, and because I still have some trail cameras
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I need to hang yet. But it's gonna be one,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: potentially two, and it's gonna be on the exact same ridge,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: right and they're gonna be probably again twenty yards apart
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: from each other, maybe less one on one side of
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: the ridge on the on the Let's say this ridge
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: runs west west to east, and I'm gonna have one
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: on the south side and one on the north side
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: for different wind directions, and I'll be able to to
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: be honest with you, I'll be able to cut one
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: shooting lane that would lead right from one stand to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the next. Nice. So other than that stands other than
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: that potential one. And it's it's been an area that
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I've hunted before, so I know my way in and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: out very well. I know the access route in and out,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and the only thing I have to do is just
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: set the stand up, um do some trimming. But it's
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: pretty tight in there, so if there is any trimming,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be very minimal. And yeah, I mean it'll probably,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you, would probably be a running guns.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: So the next time I go to my farm, it's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: gonna be stretched strictly a trail camera check slash uh
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: add new cameras. And then the next time I go
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: in is gonna be one of the last weeks in August,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the first first weekend in September, and it's gonna be
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: that transition where I take them off the mineral stations
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and I put them on pinch points, uh inside corners,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: fence crossings, whatnot. It's pretty crazy. Season's coming fast, oh man.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So so we got to hear about that trail camera
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: poll though before we've shut this down. Dan, how did
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the trail cameras cards look? I'll tell you what I
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: was pretty I was pretty happy with what I found. Um,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, better than last year. As far as
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: a maturity level, I think I was looking at maybe
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: four deer that may make four or older, with one
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: one buck maybe being seven or eight. I I'm gonna
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: have to go back and check some of the old
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: cameras or the old show campics that I have of
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: this buck. But it's a buck I've I've named Dork.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: He shows up this time of year every year for
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the past four or five years and um, he's always
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: had a huge body. This year, um, his body, to
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: be honest with you, looks a little smaller. I mean
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: he looks healthy. But as Antler's, he's all mass. He's
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: real tight. He's always been in kind of a I
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: think he's been a ten pointer, but just really tall brows,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: lots of mass, and just a buck that I would
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: love to run into. Um some year and uh, I
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, man, other than that, you know, I got
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: a buck that I may have some history with. I
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: posted some pictures on Facebook and Instagram of him. My
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: buddy Ryan seems to think it's a buck that he
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: actually hitting the Antler. Uh. Yeah, he seems to think
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: it might be him. U Um. I've been really digging
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: through pictures to look for a notch on his ear.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: But this year, all the pictures of him, none of
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: them are straight on, so you can't see his ear
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: if it's got a notch out of it at all.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: But it is a mature buck. I would think that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: that buck was two thousand four fifteen sixteen, So that's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: like if that buck was a four or five year old,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: that put him at an eight roughly and eight year
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: old this year. So, um, if it is him, maybe,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: If not, it's a descendant of him. Um really really
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: kg really big ten pointer. Um. I don't know what
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: it will make. He may he may make booner. But
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you know there's still a lot of season left. But
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: but I'll tell you what this mild winner definitely for
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: for Iowa. Definitely uh, going into this year. I'm seeing
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: healthier bodied bucks and I'm seeing bigger antler development. That's awesome. Husband.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: How's the rank situation been down by your property? Because
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I was just talking with with Mark Drury down in
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the south part of the state and he's been really
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: worried about drought where his properties are. Are you seeing
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: that too? Yep? Until uh it went June second was
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the last time we got rain down on the main farm.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I spoke with the land owner this year. But then
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I texted another guy in the area yesterday and they
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: got two inches of rain. So my farm got two
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: inches of rain. I mean the crops were looking pretty
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: bad that the beans were real short. Typically this year
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: there at least you know, halfway up the leg or
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: you know, just a little bit below the knee. Uh,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: And the corn leaves were starting to roll in on
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: each other and that's typical of no water and hot weather.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: But we got two inches and hopefully some of that
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: absorbed into the ground and got the crops where they
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: needed to, got the you know, because when you get
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: this drought, then you start worrying about h D exactly. Yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm just thankful that that that we did get
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: the rain that we uh that we got. Well, that's good, dude.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Well hopefully hopefully no disease issues over by you. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear you got some good ones on camera.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And and next week when we do a podcast, um,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I should have I should have some updates for you
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: on some trail camera stuff. And we don't have time
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: to talk about now, but next time we'll talk about
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I've been doing some public land scouting and found some
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: interesting stuff there and uh continue to work on my
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: private properties here in Michigan. So man, that the pieces
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: are coming together. Yep, it's that snowball and it's just
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: gonna start, you know, the train, the locomotion. The locomotive
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: is starting to gain its momentum right and here pretty
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: soon it's just gonna be hold on, it's a wild
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: timing you're coming up, and I'm pumped. I'll see in
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: New Orleans. I will see in New Orleans. I can't wait, buddy.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of fun, and I hope
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I'll see a lot of you guys in New Orleans
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: as well. Now, before we move on to our conversation
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: with Brian, we do need to pause briefly for our
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Sickest story of the day, and producer Spencer Newarth has
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: got that queue up for us. Next. For this week's
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Sitka story, we're joined by Dan Ness, a Sitka ambassador
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: an Elk guide who tells us about his role in
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the harvest of a monster public land bowl. So Elk
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Cunning in southwest Colorado was guiding my two hundreds from
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Texas that have been gotten for a few years. Glass
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and a big, huge meadow and right at last about
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: last light, uh saw an Elk appear at the way
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: far end of the meadow, about six seven hundred yards away.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Pick up my glasses and sure enough it's a really
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: nice bull. So I say, a big bull, big bowl.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: We gotta go close the distance, losing light, get to
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: about foevy yards and roughly and I look at my hunter.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Are you confident in the shot? He says, absolutely, So
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: get him set up and I say send it. That
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: bullet goes and here that bullet hit the elk, and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and elk takes off and disappears in the brush and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: kind of looking at each other, and you know, we
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: think the shot was good, but um, we weren't a
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: percent confident on it. So we decided to back up
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: for the evening and just let the bull be in
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: peace and and come back in the morning. While we
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: came back in the morning, and sure enough thunderstorm and
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: rolled in complete downpour, so all the blood was washed away,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and just took our time and work through, work through
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the opinions where we last saw him, and found some
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: tracks and and uh kind of saw a beam of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: light shining through the trees, and sure enough, there he was,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and we ended up finding them and look over on
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: my hunter, I'm like, there he is, man, and celebrated
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: like crazy and for a public land hunt over the calendar.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: That bull ended up scoring three six and it was
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: one of the most incredible hunts in my life. On
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Dan's Colorado elk on he was wearing sit because timberline
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: pants and Stratus jacket. If you'd like to create a
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: sick of story of your own or learn more about
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: sit because technical hunting apparel, visit sick gear dot com.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: So we are in bos And Montana. It is the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: sick Co Converge event and I'm here with podcast Extraordinary
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Brian Call. Thanks for being here man. Yeah, I'm excited.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I been a big fan of wired Hunt for a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: long time. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's so cool
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: seeing someone who reached out to me a long time
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: as a listener of the wire Hunt podcast saying hey,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: you know you've got a decent thing going on, um
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: and then go and show me up and do something
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: so much better. It's awesome. So it's congrats man. Yeah.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: For those who don't know, I, um, I I heard
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: you on a podcast, um about um business, starting your
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: own business, Phil, I think yes, yes, yes, Hunting Freedom
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: podcast is that it was like how to start? Uh
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: he interviewed, was was that what it's called? Yeah? I
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: think that's what he calls it. And it's all about
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: getting into the bow hunting industry or this is like
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: three years ago one more and so yeah, yeah, I
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: heard you on the podcast and you were talking about
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: UM starting word to hunt, UM, you know you're You're.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: It was what I loved about it was it was
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: on all you. There was no UM. You weren't partnered
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: up with some company, they weren't paying you to do
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: a show. It was you ran and you made all
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the decisions all on your own, and you built it
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: all the way up from scratch, and it was very
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: much digital based. And so I heard you on the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: show talking about it and stuff, and then he said, yeah,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: anybody who wants to just reach out, And you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I asked me a question. So I sent you an email.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: And I had started down this path of of I
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: had bought a computer, figured out how to do a
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: bunch of editing on the computer, shoot some video. I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: was kind of self teaching myself for like six or
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: seven months. And I had got a film ready and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I was gonna put it in full draw film tour,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and I just kind of was playing around stuff on
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: my own. But I was thinking about starting a podcast
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: for the Western Side of Hunting and and and so
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I reached out and you got back to me. But
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: it was like four months after I said the email.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: If it makes you feel any better, that's kind of
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the norm for everybody. I'm so horrible and I'm worse
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: than you because there are people who have emailed me. Um,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: there's just too many. I take it back to It
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: was very cool when I did get a message, you know,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: um back from you, and we went back and forth
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: a few times. But uh, I couldn't wait. I couldn't
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: wait for you. I had to go on without you.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad you did. So for those who aren't familiar,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: tell them, tell us what you ended up doing. Yeah. Yeah,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: So I started the Gritty Bowman podcast Gritty Bowman brand
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: um UM. I I graduated from b y U with
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: a degree in accounting and information systems, and I went
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: into business and I was I was kind of doing
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I T consulting and and UH governance compliance work UM
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: as a consultant, and then I went into work for
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Standard Insurance Company for eight or nine years. And in
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the midst of that, I I've always been, you know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: into entrepreneur stuff. I had a construction company and did
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on the side. I did a
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: lot of things that I failed at and uh and
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: then um one I decided I was going to start
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: making personal hunting films just stuff for me and buddies,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and I started to learn how to edit and film,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: and one thing led to another. I really wanted to
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: make something my thought would be cool out of a hunt.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: We had whatever the hunt is. Each year we'd filmed
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: some stuff and we just put it out there and
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: share it um and there was no goal to like
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: start a business or to do anything with it. And
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: then over time I started having friends come up to me,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: how do you set up your bow and how do
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you hunt? And what do you do? And I found
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: myself explaining things to people, what do you I'm big
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: in a diet and fitness, and so I was explaining
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: that in there, and I thought, you know, I should
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: just do a podcast. Even if only friends of mine
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and family and other people nerd out on it, that's cool.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: And so I kind of just did it as a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: hobby and for fun, and I did the filmmaking and
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the podcast. I ran into Aaron Snyder, who works for
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Kafaro International, part owner there, and UH followed Aaron for
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: years doing backpack hunting. I'd always reads gear reviews and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: I go buy all the crap he said to go
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: by and then i'd go hunt and um so I
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: met Aaron one day and at the Sportsman Show in Oregon,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you want to do podcast He's like,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: do you do podcasts? I'm like, well, I will tomorrow.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: And did you want to do it? He's like yeah,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: So he was my first guest. We sat down and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: we just kind of, yeah, it's very interesting. We sat
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: down and we just chatted it up and I learned
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. I had so many questions for
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the guy that Florida shelter boots and you know, backpacks,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: how do you adjust it, how do you load it?
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: You know and stuff that. And I had been doing
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: fairly well on my own backpack hunting. We had gone
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: into Ego caps a couple of times and gone on
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: some pretty deep and remote hikes and hunts. But uh,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: this is a guy who spent his life doing it,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and this is me doing it when I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: get vacation time. And I geeked out on it. But
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I was nowhere near Snyder's level, and so it just
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: took off. Conversation was great. I published it and and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: then I got all these emails asking for another one,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and so I didn't more and after about a month,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Aaron Snyder called me up and said, hey, how did
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: that podcast go? And I said it, it's like it
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was really good. That episode did well, and he's like,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: do you want to do another one? And I said, yeah,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: if you if you'll do another one. And so we
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: did another one and the same thing happened. More people
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: liked it, and we did another one, another one, and
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: pretty soon we just started doing one every week, and uh,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: it went from I don't know, I just went from
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: a few people following and just exponentially good snowball. Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So that sort of surprised me at first, and I
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: had to make a decision do I keep putting content
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: out and keep doing this or because it's starting to
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: cutting my day job, Like I already had a good
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: job that paid me well, So what do you do?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: And it got to a point where I had enough
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: partners and companies who who liked what we were doing
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: when that came to us and said, hey, what's it
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: gonna take so you can do this full time? Um,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And we talked about it and it was a took
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: us me a while, and I was fascinated by your
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: story on how you made the jump and went all
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: in with wired hunt and the process, and I followed
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: that closely, and I kind of took other people's advice
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: who had done the same, and at some point I
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: just jumped. You have to take a leap, right. I
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: think if you have something you're passionate about and you
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: want to do it didn't come without cost. I mean
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: I gave up a lot of things to do it,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: but I gained a lot of things and I don't
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: regret it, and uh, I'm really excited about where it
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: might lead down the road. That's I always get such
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: a kick out of seeing people chase that passion and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: be willing to obviously put in the work, but then
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: also step out on a limb a little bit because
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it is outside of the norm. It is different than
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: the safety and security and there's no thing wrong with
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: that type of job, there's nothing wrong with at all.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: But for some people, if you know the deep down
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: inside of you, that's not what fulfills you, and it's
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: not going to fill you with life and excitement and passion,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and you know it's something else to then have the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: just the the gal to go for it. Um. I
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: really respect and get excited to see that. So it's
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: the need to be able to see you take that
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: leap and uh do it smashing LYE. Well, I appreciate that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of support along the way, and
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Aaron Snyder has been you know, we're we're uh, you know,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: every it hasn't been a partnership without problems, right like
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: everybody everything, but uh, you know, Aaron's like a brother now,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and there's just very few people that I I enjoy
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: spending time with as much as Aaron, and I think
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: that comes out on the podcast, and uh, and that
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: matters to people. That's good. So that's perfect. So real quick,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: if you had to get like the fifteen second speel
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: of what Gritty Bowman is for those listening, what are
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: they gonna get? What are they gonna learn? What are
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: they what should they come to expect if they're not
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: already within your world. Um, we are an outdoor like
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: a backpacking, backcountry bow hunting podcast primarily, so that's kind
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: of it in a nutshell. But we talk I've never
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: put rule, like you know, rules around our topics. So
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: we've talked about everything. It's really a life podcast to me,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: So we talked about everything from entrepreneurship and business to
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: fitness and and and diet and and exercise to hunting. Yeah,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I thought that was cool. You guys did like a
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: business book podcast, Like he reads the same stuff I do.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: We've been Uh, that's been a huge hit. It's been
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: some of our highest downloaded episode have been podcasts about
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: life books like Extreme Ownership, uh and Ego as the Enemy.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Those have been yes, and uh so I'm pretty excited
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: about I mean, all of it's been great, but I've
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I've received a ton of emails or people like I
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: love to hear you talk about hunting. I'd love to
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: hear you and Aeron just hang out, but I love
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: to hear you talk about life more. And so that's
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: been a sort of a thing for me where we
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: haven't know a lot of episodes around that. But you
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: look at Joe Joe Rogan, he's a good friend and
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: he goes out and does shows on whatever he feels like.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And I feel like that's what greaty can do. Like
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: it's mine, right, so I can do it on whatever
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: you want, you know, So why not? Yeah, Well, can
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I talk about whatever I want that on this what
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I want to talk on this one? Right now is
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: about what brought you to listen to wire hunt originally,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: as I understand it, Yes, you told me that you
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: start listening to wire to hunt because you're you're blacktail
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: hunter out on the far Pacific Northwest, and you were
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: finding that the white tail stuff we were talking about
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: somehow was relevant to you. So explain that that that
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: really intrigued me to hear what we were talking about
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: in the mission in Michigan or the south or the
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: east could be applicable to a totally different kind of subspecies.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Right So, um, I grew up kind of in that
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: western Oregon airspace just uh in Oregon City south of Portland.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: It's pretty urban area. There's you know, it's all private land,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you know, five acre lots here and there and and
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: so forth. And then it gets a little denser in
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: some places, but there's deer run around neighborhood, just like
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: white tail back back east right midwest. But the blacktail
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: in the city, they're the only difference really is they're
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: very nocturnal, like extremely insane me nocturnal. Um, where I
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: think white tail are a little more except when they
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: get to be it's from what I can understand, like
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: when they get to be monsters, A lot of them
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: don't come out until after dark. They figured it out, right,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: They the reason why they got to be big and old, right,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And I figured that out with what Blacktail were the same,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: and I had to decide. Um. I was trying to
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: figure out how to hunt them, you know. I And
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: and it's interesting because I did a film, UM called
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: so I don't remember my own trophy places, thinking what
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: it's called. Um and uh, I did a Blacktail film
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and it was on Solo Hunters. Tim Tim put it
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: on Solo Hunter that so, uh that episode is up
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: there on on a Solo Hunter TV on. You can
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: watch it on his channel YouTube or my website. But
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: what happened was and and it kind of documents that story.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: But what happened is I would I grew up on
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: this acredge in the middle of nowhere in Oregon, and
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: we had about forty acres and then the neighbors all
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: had acredge, and and uh, I never saw a buck
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the whole time, growing up, like there's like nothing with
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: horns like spikes, you know, here and there, and I
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: see does and I knew there were deer there, but
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I just never never registered, and my dad would all
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: go back east and wed to the east side of
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Oregon and we'd hunt mule deer and elk was just
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: like what we did every season. What I didn't realize
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: was there were monster deer right in my backyard. And
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: so game cameras are invented, right and people are using those,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: and I get a game camera. I remember talking to
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: a friend of mine who was went to his house
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: one day and we hadn't talked much since high school.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Go over to his house and I looked, and this
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: is years later, right after high school, and I and
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: he's got these beautiful blacktail box mounted on his wall.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: I'm like, whoa that those are just amazing. You know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: They're kind of small, you know, but they're they're amazing.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And he's like they're I'm like, well, they're kind of small.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of the deer I see aren't
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: that small. And he's like, it's not a mule deer,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a black tail, you know, and uh
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it just I had never never really been on my radar,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and so at that point I started paying attention and
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: their big deer on his wall. I started to realize
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the difference between a black tail called being back to
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: blacktail and like a white tail and a mule deer
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: and really paying attention and um. Then I wanted to
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: hunt him. And we had all that acreage was it
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: was ours, so we we hung game cameras up all
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: over them uncle aunt and uncle's place, my place, and um.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: And for the for like a year, I didn't see
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: any Box nothing. And then right when the rut was
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: coming around, all of a sudden, I started seeing Box
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: and I remember seeing him for it was like eleven months.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Like we had put those cameras up like around December,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: and I didn't see any year with antlers. And I
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: still haven't figured out the place. Um. And all I
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: know is that from like the last week of October
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: through Thanksgiving, anything can happen interesting, very I mean, just
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: like white tails and that there the bucks. There's some
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: that I think live right there, and I think there
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: are some that you know, wandering from far away. Um.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: But what I learned from your podcasts, so I started
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: trying to I started to correlate that. Man, there's a
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: big It seems like the things that you're talking about
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: in white Tail Country would apply and new and we
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: had done some tree stand hunting in some mountain areas
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and it's it's like, um, it's not like there are
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: a black tail around that you can hunt up in
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the mountains. That act a lot more like I would
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: think like a Kansas white tail and you walk out
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: and you rattle some antlers and stuff, and they're kind
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: they come charging in and stuff like that. And so
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: I kind of I had done that, and then but
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I knew they were at my house and I was like,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: you know, hear them up in the cascades and the
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: mountains and I'm over by mount Hood and I'm trying
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: to hunt these black tails versus in my in the
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: city more or less. I mean, where there's these big
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: bucks ring around. I see him on camera at night.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: So I started listening to your podcast and started taking
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: bits and pieces from it, and um, and it was
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: really neat to take parts like sent control. It's just
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: not something a lot of guys on the West really
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: paid attention to, you know, putting on some rubber boots.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I mean they saw basic stuff for your listeners, But
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: for me, it was like revolutionary, right and so and so, UM,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys that hunted blacktails, at least where
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I grew up, they walked. They still hunted, that's how
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: they did it. And they would walk around on the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: ground and even rattling. They didn't do a lot of it,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: you know. And there are guys who were killing big
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: black tails and uh, and I was reading their books
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: as well. But I I found that I really enjoyed
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: listening to your podcast and taking those tactics back into
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: the woods. So where to hang up cameras. I started
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to figure out what staging areas were. We started to
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you started to um kind of open my eyes to
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: um dear behavior QDM and and we started putting apple
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: trees and different things out on our property. We we
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: logged some things and kind of tried to mimic what
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: it would be like to have a better property. So
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: it's mine, nobody else can come on it. So I
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to make it so so it was my own
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: paradise of dear activity. And so I started building my
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: land as kind of suit that. And it took about
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: six years. And the deer um right now, you know,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: it's been three years. I listened to it three years
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: since then, um and and uh, since I really hunted
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: that area, and man, there's some good bucks running around
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: now that weren't there before. And really, I think what
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: it is is we just attract a lot of dos
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to the property, which then brings those bucks in during
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the rut um And I just about hunting over dose
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: during the rut That's all I got. So are you
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: just setting up near like dough betting areas and that
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: kind of thing and waiting from the cruise through or yes,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: you're You're able to identify that kind of stuff similar
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: to what we do in the white Tail world, like
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: where the doors are betting, And I'm sure you kind
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: of know. I kind of know where they're bedded, and
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: I know where they go to feed, you know. And uh,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And I don't think we have the deer densities like
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: what you guys have, but and and Blacktail definitely have
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: a certain personality and characteristic about him that make them
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I think, different, quite a bit different from all white
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: good question. But before we get to that, we're going
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: to take a quick break for our weekly white Tail
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Wisdom from our friends at white Tail Properties and my
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: good buddy from South Dakota, producer Spencer new Hearth will
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: take it from here. This week with white tail Properties.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: We are joined by Tom James, a land specialist out
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: of Central Indiana, and Tom is going to be tellious
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: about what to look for when your goal is to
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: flip a property. Okay, great question. Um First and foremost,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: looking at a good county in your state, or even
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: a good part of the county that is known for
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: producing better quality deer, and that's typically easily found out
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: in the in the state's record book program. So those
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: counties are typically more highly sought after by buyers um
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: as opposed to you know, maybe counties that are off
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: out of that parameter. So number one, a good county,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: maybe even a better part of the county that is
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: known for producing better deer. Secondly, I would look for
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: property if you can pick up right at market value
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: and slightly under market value, obviously as a home run,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: but make sure you do your homework, find out what
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: the comps and local local and is selling for. And
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: that mixed recreational ground and that would be timber and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: maybe some pasture, some tillable ground mixed in. So number
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: two good value at at the current market price. And
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: number three look at uh sometimes an often overlooked aspect
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: of timber that people don't know a lot about is
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: um the quality of the hardwood species that are on
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: the property. If you can find eighteen inch and larger
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: diameter trees in their specifically white oaks, red oaks, walnut, cherry, um,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: sugar maple, the white oak market is extremely hot right now,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: and anything above that is gonna that size range is
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: gonna return dividends that you could use the applying to
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: paying the property back off and also doing some great
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: habitat work in the process by opening up the canopy
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and getting some good habitat work going on in there.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more and to see the
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: properties that Tom currently has listed for sale, visit white
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Tail properties dot com. Backslash James, that's j A. M. E. S.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: So we are. We're in a very different place that
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: we were two seconds ago, Bride, because right a second
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: ago you and we were talking it was nice and quiet,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and we're talking about black tails versus white tails, and
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: now it's windy and there's guns being shot behind us.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: What happened, Well, we're at the SIA Converge event here
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: in uh Montana, and uh I had to step out
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: from the podcast for another obligation and now we're back
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: at it. But now we're out on range day. It's
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: day two of converge. Yep, we're in Paradise Valley, Sika converge.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Did I say conversion converge convergion like you had? How
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: how nice is it out here? Though? It's beautiful? Yeah,
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: it's very nice. This whole state is incredible, you know,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: no offense. I'm going to throw this out there though.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Whenever I'm out here, I wonder how come those guys
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: on the east don't move out west? Yeah, no, you're
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: telling me. You are telling me my wife and from
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: there exactly every time we come out here, my wife
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: and I have that conversation. Yeah. But you know, there's
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun stuff there and it really people. Yeah,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: family and friends. But you know, we keep on getting
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: closer and closer. I mean we spend about three months
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: around here now. Yeah, so we're getting there. But um,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: but those white tails, yes, they do kind of have
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: my heart. The heart, I mean, it sounds kind of
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: among my family and friends that I left back in Oregon.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: The blacktail hunting is sorely missed, and I kind of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: want the whole maybe increased level of mule deer and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: access to mule deer and a big mule deer, and oh,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: hunting in Colorado is sort of you know, uh be
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: a salve on the wound of not hunting blacktails, but
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: they're so different. I still missed the blacktail that it
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't make up for it. You know. Have you how's
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: that movement? It's been really good. I I um, Colorado
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: is kind of the perfect mix of everything for us,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: you know. And because I'm doing Gretty Bowman full time,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I'm allowed to I can kind of live wherever I
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: want to live. And in the past, you know, I
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I commuted into a major metropolitan area for years, so
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of need to live near a city that
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: was big, and you know it kinda like most people,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't have the the ability to live in a
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: remote area of the United States and the country, you know,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: as as much as I do now. So I chose Evergreen, Colorado.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And it's it's an awesome place. It's not for everybody,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: because you know, it's a commune. If you're working to
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: down or area to commute, it's a it's a good drive, oh,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: probably forty five minutes if if the traffic is good.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Do you still do you feel like you're a little
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: outside of the chaos of Denver though? Oh? Yeah, No,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I mean the mountains it's like this, that's awesome. It's
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: like where we're aver right now. That's I'm jealous. Yeah,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: it's it's new for me. The weather is the reason
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I left the Northwest, the rainy. Yeah, I just wanted
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: to uh be out in the sun a lot more so,
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I I Yeah, I've heard very good things about that area. Yeah,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: good weather, great access to lots of country and lots
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: of backpacking and hiking and errands there and Cafari was there,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: and we do so much together that it's nice to
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: have that. Yeah, it's just a great place for us
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: to work together and do things. So so we we
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: we were just talking about black tails and how you
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: were able to pull some white tail info from you know,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: listening to what we were talking about with our white
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: tail honey back in the day, and you were applying
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: that to blacktails. What just recently this winner you wouldn't
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: chased white tails for the first time? Was that the
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: first time? It was the first time, So I want
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: to hear about that. How did that go? So Okay,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: So I Aaron, Aaron went to Rite. Yes, Aaron and
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I went to Alabama and our friend Brian Brodrick he
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: um lives down there in Alabama and he he if
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: you look him up on Instagram, he's Lost Arrow Films
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: and he's a he's a really really cool dude. And
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: he has some access to to land back there, his
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: land that um where they it's only you know, only
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: a few people get to to come on it each year.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: They manage it. They're careful. They kill a bunch of doughes,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: but they they try not to kill any bucks. So
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: it's a managed property. Right, so you're spoiled when you're
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: walking in there because it's different than a lot of
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: other places. How big is it is a lot of property. Gosh,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's uh, it's large. I mean
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: I think it took us in a in a you know,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: in a buggy. It took us like thirty minutes to
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: cross the whole thing. And yeah, um and uh so
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: they just have a few people that hunted. And so
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: we went out there. Well, the interesting thing about it
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: was it's February where we went, and so Alabama has
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: a February rut hunt. And it's hard for me to
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: picture those critters in the rut in February. And then
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: everybody else is kind of all the other deer done,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: you know, and this pocket in Alabama is like ramping up.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: There's going nuts. Bizarre. So we showed up there and
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I hunted white tails once years and years ago in
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Idaho and um and uh during the rut in Idaho
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: and and and back then maybe twelve years ago, ten
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: years ago, there wasn't a lot of I mean, it
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: was sort of like white tails were just kind of
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: booming in that area. Um, but anyway, it wasn't like
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: hunting them like how I pictured hunting white tails. I
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: didn't see that many where you tree stand hunting them
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: or like we did. We did both, you know, but
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: we went out. So we go to Alabama and um,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: the deer there are are. So the thing that stood
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: out to me right was the sheer. Number of deer
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: is crazy, Like there's just there's just so many white
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: tails and they're like rabbits. They just run everywhere. There's
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: just doose fawns, some box and and this is a
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: granted during the rut on a piece of property that's
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: not heavily pressure um and where they select just a
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: few bucks a year off of it. So it was
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: a special place especially for Brian grew up there and
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: realized that that's cool. Yeah, so we went out and
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: we um the deer So white tail are jumpy like
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: true store skittish, jumpy like it's not like blacktail at all. Um.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: You know. Um we would climb into the tree stand
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: and a blacktail you could almost and and for maybe
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: it's just because the hunting pressure is a lot different there.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's I'm obviously that's part of it. The
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: way the white tail kind of get jumpy, um looking up.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: They looked up a lot, like they were scanning the trees.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: You don't you do not get that with with blacktail
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: they almost never look up. You can get a lot
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: of movement, and I guess a lot of maybe just
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: not a lot of people are tree stand hunting. Yes,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: in the back I would agree with that. And I
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: would just think there's not a lot of people hunting
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: that species in gen general, so there's a lower deer
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: density and then there's fewer hunters. So um for whatever
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: reason that they but one thing I will say is
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: that blacktail do not behave the same I think regardless. So, um,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the way a blacktail moves is it it? In general?
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: This is a broad generalization. I mean from my experience. Okay,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: in an urban center, the black tail will take two
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: or three steps and stop and just stand for a
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: long time, and then it'll eat a little bit and
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: it'll just stand and look and it'll take a few steps,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: and it seems it's very calm. It's like chill, and
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of it's on high alert. But it's
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: not jumping at all. It's not flinching, it's not ducking
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: its head, it's not jerking his head around like was
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: there what was there some behind me? This doesn't have
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: like a complex, you know what I mean, like like
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: some of the deer I see, Yeah, like a white
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: like these white tails will like crack. It's popping up there,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: turning out there, looking around, they looking behind, they're jumping.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Everybody's got everybody on edge. Once turning left, once turning right,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: and it's like what did you see? I don't know,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: what did you see? And and then they're looking up
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: in the tree. And that kind of spastic, intense activity
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: was very different than what you see with black tail.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: So the black tail will stand there and they'll move
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: and then when they hear something, they literally will will
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: just stop and freeze and they'll look in the direction,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: but they won't they won't move. They'll sit there, and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: they'll sit there sometimes what seems like eternity, and they'll
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: just be frozen, and they will let a predator or
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: let someone. They will just stand there while something walks
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: by them, um, not never giving away their position, never running.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: They'll just sit there and be a statue. Um where
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: a white tail, um what I observed, Like I'm in
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: a tree stand and uh, you know, Aaron or somebody
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: would come come walking up through the woods to come
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: and get me towards the end of our afternoon hunt,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: and that white tail would jerk his head up, see
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: something coming and book it. And a black tail in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: the same situation in general, would freeze and just just
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: kind of wait for that person to walk by without
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: being seen. And sometimes it will take a few steps.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: And when they leave, they tend to take they they
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: sneak off. They just kind of sneak off and they
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: hide behind a tree and they they don't run the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: same way and so um, it's it's a they're very cautious, dear,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: and they tend to if they if something does come in,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: they kind of they have all their trails that I
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: don't from what I understand, with a lot of black tails,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: especially in the small urban centers where I was at,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: they kind of live and reside in a three hundred
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: yard area for most of the years. Really small range,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: so very very small. So they don't really have a need,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: especially old bucks, to go very far. They get up,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: they eat, they drink a little, and they and it's
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: right there. There's so much abundant growth and food and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: stuff for these bucks that they don't have to really
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: roam much. And and from some of the studies I've heard,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: they just they won't go very far at all. Um.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Whereas and I'm talking about the Lambit Valley talking about
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: coastal blacktail a little more so than I am talking
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: about maybe northern California or further eastward where they're kind
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: of edge box mixed with mule deer genetics and stuff
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: like that. So, how do black tails, the coastal blacks
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: tells that you were hunting, compare with something like a
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: sick of black tail. So I've found a sick of
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: black tail in Prince of Wales Island a few times
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: and um, a couple of times. And uh, I've been
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: to Prince of Wales bear hunting in the spring and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I've seen when I'm not hunting black tails, so I've
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: seen them a bit and studied him some. I would
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: say there's a lot of similarities. Um ah. The the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: older bucks I think on the Sitka bucks are I
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: don't know. They they're very um ah. They kind of
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: move a lot the same like they're they checked their trail.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: They move a little slower. But I would say that
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: this Sitka blacktail are less they they'll move out faster
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: from my experience, you know. Um it's kind of hard
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: to say because sit blacktail where I was at the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: some of them I think have never even seen a
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: human in that sense. They didn't. It's hard to observe
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: their behavior because they they're like, oh, they're very curious,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: and so they just stare at you and you stare
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: at them and they don't run away. It's it's odd
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: so um because they just don't know what yeah behavior really,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I can talk to about sick
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: a blacktail as much, Um, I hear they're very aggressive
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: and during the rut, but so are Columbian black tail.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people think that you can't
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: rattle them in or that they don't respond like a
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: white tail. And um, I black I've seen some knockdown,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: drag out brutal blacktail uh fights. And Cameron Haynes has
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: a video, a couple of videos um on on his
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: blacktail film that he made a few years back. Um,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: he has some footage you got from somebody where two
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: black tails were going at each other. They try to
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: kill each other. You know, I've seen some black tails
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: just go after each other. Um, that's something any species
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: when you see that, that's pretty wild. Faces are in
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: the dirt and they're just trying they're trying to kill
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: each other. So um. The other thing that I noticed
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: with with back to the white tail thing is their
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: their bodies are so at least this is Alabama, right,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: So um, they're slight like they jump and they move
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: kind of when a white tailed dough, especially when it runs,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: it's sort of bounces back and forth in the front
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: legs land in a different spot than the back legs.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's just a very bouncy
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. And uh um, black tail does move
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: like mule deer. They move a lot more like a
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: mule deer. White white tailer their own thing. Man. They
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: don't look like anything mule deer or blacktail. So blacktailer stocky,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: you know, a little shorter, they don't have the biggest
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: set of antlers, but they still have a stout neck
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: and a stout shoulders and they can still be stocky animals.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Sick of black tail same thing. They're They're very stocky
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: and boxy looking. They're thick. They just look cool like
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: you see these deer, those dark foreheads. And especially I
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: feel like whenever I see a sick of black tail
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: hunts raining. So those antlers are glistening and kind of
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: orangy brown, and shot a number of black tail box
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: with red antlers right like red because of the trees
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: that they're rubbing on, right, so it kind of taints
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and colors. They're antlers in a dark dark brown red color.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: And they have a double throat patch where they got
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: the white to white patches, and then they're coloring. I
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: honestly think and I love mule deer, and I love
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: white tail, and um, it's sort of for me, it's like,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: a pretty woman is a pretty woman, whether she's black, white, Asian,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: pretty girl is a pretty girl, fair enough. A beautiful
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: deer is a beautiful deer, regardless of whether it's blacktail,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: mule deer, or white tail. But for me, I feel
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: like blacktail Colombian blacktail are the prettiest of them all
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: for me. Their ears, the way that they're set, the
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: stockiness of it, the coloring of their coat, the white patches,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: that black top cap, and it's just all the coloring
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: and and just the ears in proportion to the antlers
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: and stuff. I just I just think they are beautiful animal.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: If you're getting a Columbian blacktail and you're just mounting
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: the antlers, you missed out because the beauty really to
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: me is in the shoulder mount the shape of the body,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: the head, the ears, all that kind of stuff. Just
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. So you know, it's a whole lot of
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: differences between these white tails and blacktails and some similarities.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: But was it fun? Yeah? I mean, was it as
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: fun what? I? Oh, dude, the white tail scene is um,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: so back to their behavior a black tail. Uh. Generally
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: most of the time, especially in these city centers, they
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: don't come out until until dark. I mean, there's so nocturnal. Honestly,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I might get for all the photos I get, I'll
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: hang like eight or nine cameras on my land, and
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: I would have pictures of bucks, the same ones every
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: year that I'd see every year. And then there would
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: be bucks that I saw once it never saw again,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: which I think is common across the United States, right,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: But what would happen would be nine out of like
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: for every buck I saw yet into the dark. You know,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: if I got ten bucks in the dark, i'd see
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: one in the daylight. And there were there were bucks
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: that you know, with all my cameras that were up,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: there were bucks that I would see once every other
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: year on a camera during daylight hours. So you're you're saying,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: You're like, like I would hunt fourteen days in a
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: row on these different spots for a glimpse at one
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: mature buck one and there would be years where I
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: didn't see a single one. A marathon was a very
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: small rewards. You're just you're just out there. It's a
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: we call it. We joke around it's like a unicorn.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: You're looking for a unicorn. And I remember Scott Hawgan
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: talking about black tails. I mean, Cameron is kind of
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: an anomaly in the sense, well not an anomaly, but
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of guys that hunt in Lane
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: County and kind of more uh. Down in that area
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: Eugene and UM, the deer seemed to move a little
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: better during daytime. There's higher population. Some of the biggest
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: pope and young bucks have been taken in that area. UM.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: But up where I was at, closer to Portland, Oregon, UM,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: it was pretty tough to get a deer out during
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: daylight as much as so a lot of guys will
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: jump in their rig and they will drive south and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: they will hunt south in the in the unit. The
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: in Oregon, the hunt would start a week later or earlier. Rather,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, a week took took more than a week
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: earlier down south than it does up north where I
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: was at. UM and Uh, it's just a just a
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: different animal, dude. They just don't come out except for
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: at night, and so you're waiting for that one glimpse.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm in Alabama and you contrast that and there
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: are bucks like just running the trees back and forth, chasing,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: does you know, and you're seeing stuff constantly, like there's
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: a buck over run there and one goes running there
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: and it goes under your standing. And at the same time,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: they're looking up every now and then and she scanning,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: so you're like vigilant where they're on edge and you're
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: on edge. Yeah, and they're fighting, you know, you'll see
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: it here and fighting and going at it and grunting
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: and they're making very vocal um. In Alabama, it was
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: just like action action action, and you might you when
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: you sit in a blacktail stand, you're kind of you're
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: in general that does happen. That's happened to me. I've
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: had a couple of magic days where I come across
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Bucks just fighting and going crazy and and uh. But
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: then there are just days where it's dead, um, and
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: it's only for a seven to ten day window of
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: brilliant you know, broad activity, and that's gone and it's
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: all nighttime again. Where in Alabama was like Broderick was
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: telling us, as long as they don't get two spooked,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: you know, as long as there's not a lot of
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: human pressure in there, um, they just keep cruising around
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: fighting each other and running around and doing their thing,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: and and the aggressiveness of them and their daytime movement
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: is just night and day compared to what I've experienced
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: with blacktail. So that daytime movement, to me, is a
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: game changer because you can't hunt him if if if
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: they're not moving during the daytime, you can't kill them.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not legal. And so that's just and
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: I think probably those old old white tails they don't
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: figure that out. They run at night, they move at night,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: so very very very tight to their bedrooms. Yeah, and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: so you're you're trying to find a buck that's just
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: maybe and is in a moment of meet weakness and
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: makes that mistake. And there was a buck I was
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: after for like five years, and I called him Lefty,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: big blacktail buck, and he had this big hook off
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: his off the base of his antler that just came
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: straight out and it was a super cool dear and
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: he just seemed to get bigger and bigger every year.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: And uh and uh i um. I missed him months.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: It was getting really dark. It was pretty low light,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: and I was chilled, and I took the shot and
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: shot right over his back. And uh, that was the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: only time I got a shot at him. There were
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: other times I could have shot at him. And uh,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: it's and I have you to thank for that, because I, UM,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: I had had this difficulty trying to kill kill him
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and I and I had tried everything. So I'm listening
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: to your podcast and I'm trying to figure out the
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: thing was is the way that I would hunt him
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: is this is small acreage like eight acres, you know.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Now there's other people's property right next to mine, and
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: they liked my land. We had some apple trees and
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and we I would put apples out,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: um in a couple of spots, so I knew they
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: were feeding here, and I knew they were betting over here.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: But he would show up. He would follow some dough
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: was during the rut. They would run. They'd come right
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: to where those apples were. It didn't do me any
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: good to sit where the apples were, because the bucks
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't come. They'd linger back, it'd stay back, and so
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: the does would come in and they had to eat,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: and the buck would just back and be back there.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: And he would and every now and then I could
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: see a glimpse of where he grunt. Well, he was
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: plenty huntable over there. Um, it just that was somewhere
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: between the betting area and the feeding area right and
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: it was kind of hard to So I started putting
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: cameras up right by the feeding area and then further
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: back and further back, and tried to follow where he
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: was going, where he was trying to figure out where
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: he was coming from. And it's it turned out to
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: be seemed pretty random. But what I figured out was
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: there was a place where he liked to stage every
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: night or every not every night, but often, and if
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I got on that tree line, he would be in
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: that during daytime as he would kind of sit there
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: and wait and as soon as it got too dark
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: from to shoot, you burst out and come out and
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: hang out. But just he would not ever come out.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: And uh so I ended up moving right up to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: the edge of that into that staging area and setting
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: up a couple of stands in there, and then I
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: was getting like then I was actually seeing him move
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: in daylight hour where I could shoot him. I just
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: never got a good shot. How much fun though is
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: that chess match when you're just And it haunts me
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: today because he's the only He's the one buck I
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: really wanted to get all those years, and I never
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: I've never gone. He just disappeared and I never saw
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: him again. Um. There was another buck though that I
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: did shoot years later, after watching him for like three
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: or four years, four years, and I shot him, and uh,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: it's weird how you get attached to a certain year.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: And I was actually after I shot him, I was
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: really bummed in a way because it's like now I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: don't get the chases over. It's like the woods are
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: a little bit emptier. Huh. For sure. I I experienced
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: a sense of loss by that, you know. And it's
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: not like I have. Where I was at, there was
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: a ton of deer, you know. And that's one thing
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: I learned early on is with with those blacktail box. Um,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: if you shoot like a resident deer that's kind of
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: hanging out in that in your five eight acres right uh,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: and he's two years old or something, it's gonna take
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: a while to get another buck to take his place
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: because those other bucks, they don't move that much. So
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: we're not finding this new empty spot you're saying exactly,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: they don't. They're kind of like, well, this is the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: spot I grew up, and I like it just fine.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: Why would I leave? And their personalities are such that
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: they seem to just stay. And so even though you've
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: now shot a couple of Bucks and now there's this
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: theoretically there's this space for him to move into for
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: feed and shelter and you know, something like that, they
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: don't seem to take advantage of it unless they're born there.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: So I didn't see a lot of territorial uh, like
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't. We'd patting cameras up all over our friends
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: properties and Anthony was a big white tail and blacktail killer.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm sure other people had other experiences,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: but in Oregon City where I was at, it was
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: kind of the common thing. And so certain areas though
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: we're really hot with Bucks and some not UM, and
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: in my particular area just uh, it seemed to for
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, UM didn't have a lot of shelter and
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: stuff for or something for the big box UM. But
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: they would come there during the run. And so I
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: had to work with what I what I owned, and
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: what I could hunt, you know, and we I hunted overdose.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: That was my strategy, smart find the dose and then
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: when they come in heat. The game was on. In
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: any moment, he could make a he or a couple
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: other bucks could make a mistake. And you what's cool,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: what keeps you owing is you see them every day,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: like every time you get your game carried out and
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: you check your three or four cameras, They're on there
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: every time. So you're like, well he came in to
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: the stand twenty minutes after I left. You get that
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: little like bump of like excitement, a little more hope
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: you know he's still there. And so, um, I found
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: that that So back to how I hunted, though I
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: would I had a trail that um so my friend
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Chris pasqual he um, he owns up he runs is
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: it September yet? It's a Facebook page and our group
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: and and uh he's a big time white black tail
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: hunter and he shot at a buck he called Daddy,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: and uh, it's a big deer. I don't know. It
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: was like a hunt like think or something like blacktail
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: monster is huge. And so he was on the podcast
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: and we talked about this a lot, and and it's
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: like it's in a city center where this deer kind
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: of mean, it's a It's it's not like it's in
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: the mountains, don't in the big blacktail? Yeah yeah, I
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: mean a hundred calling shot a hundred. And these are
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: bona fide black tails down like right there in the lambit. Like, um, anyway,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: he shoots this buck and it's a giant. I mean
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: as far as blacktails go, it's a giant. And he
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: he did this same thing, Like we would walk in
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: and there's a trail that you could hit And I
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: learned this the hard way. You walk in and and
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: you have your tree stand. So I would walk in
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: on that trail and I would put apples down. And
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: the same thing with Chris, he'd put apples down. A
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: lot of guys will use apples. It's perfectly legal in Oregon.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: And and uh, all we're doing is like on a
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: five acre piece. We're just trying to attract some deer
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: into that area. Like I said, I didn't even hunt
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: the apples most of the time because it didn't do
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: me any good. Because when I wanted, I could shoot
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: a young buck, by that's not what I wanted. And
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: the big bucks, I've yet to see a big buck
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: eat the apples I put on the ground in like
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: eight years. I feel like that's really similar to I mean,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: Texas is different, but I think a lot of places
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: where you bathe, those mature bucks just they don't want
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: to come all the way into it. The does do.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: And I think it's because they have fonds defeat and
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: they're more desperate, they're hungrier. They they you know, those
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: bucks can be selfish. They can breathe and then they
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: can just go lay down, rest and eat all day
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: long other sources. So they don't take the risk. But
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: I would. We would walk in about every three or
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: four days, and it's right, it's in my backyard. So
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: I'd walk in, drop some apples, walk out, and just
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: a five gallon bucket of a few apples. And as
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: you do that throughout, you know, July, August, September, October, November,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: you know, it's just putting a few out every other week,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: or as I get closer this season, I'm trying to
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: keep it more stocked. And there's apple orchards all over
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: and so there's a there was a whole ton of
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: apples on every piece of property surrounding me, and so
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: you just go fill up trash cans full of apples
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: that just they are already on the ground. If I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: had access to hunt one of those, like a lot
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: of guys do, I just hunt under the apple tree,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have the drop dump drop, you know.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: So anyway, what I found was as long as I
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: stayed on that trail, those bucks and those deer, they
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: didn't care. They didn't care that I came in and
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: out all the time, and they would come right up
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: to the apples and the trail and the big box
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: would stay in the area, got used to it, going
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: back and forth the same place, and they absolutely condition them.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: And then as soon as I there's a couple of
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: times where like I made a shot on a deer
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: or or I explored off trail, and that proved to
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: be devastating because as soon as I went off trail
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: and left some scent in the area surrounding, they knew
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: it right away, and they would just start coming in
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: at night, only nocturnal for two or three weeks. So
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: just go nocturnal like that, and then then your season
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: is blown. So I was paranoid to leave trail ever, right,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: And so you get a couple of places that you
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: get them used to, and they're okay with you as
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: long as you're doing the same thing all the time.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: But as soon as we started going in other areas
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: and went off trail, your season could be shot like posed.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: And so when I listened to your podcast, I was like, well,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I need to find a way too, And I learned
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: methods for for you know, rubber boots and how to
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: do scent and how to pressure just to try to
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: keep as much sent in the area out of there
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: as possible. And um, but you talked about some staging areas,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and so the next year I started walking into some
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: of these areas and setting up tree stands where I
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: thought it would uh, where I get closer and too
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: to intercept a year on its way through a spot
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: on the way to where the apples were. There were
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: no apples there, but I would put a camera there,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: and uh, and I started to see. I started get
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: into bucks in daylight and it had been like seven
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: years where I had hunted and and just I hadn't
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: been doing it right, you know. And uh, still it
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: was really tough, and I never got a really good
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: daytime opportunity was always still low light. But um, I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: actually got a lot of really great you know, three
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: or four point bucks that are that are three years old?
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: You know, four years old. I never really all that
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: time hunting black tails. I never really on my own land.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: I never really got a poke at it at the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: bucks I wanted that I knew were there. But the
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: real big boys part of it was, you know dilemma, right,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: You go in and you sit your stand two days,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: three days, four days, five days in a row. Now,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: if your camera is telling you that a mature blacktail
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: box will walk by your tree stand during daylight hours
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: once and every ten days, then you got a one
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: out of ten days chance, right. But I guess s
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: where you're going with this, Yeah, so you got a
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: ten percent chance every time you're in that standard today
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: might be those one of those ten days. So in theory,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: if you sat in that stand every day for ten days,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: you get your chance, right, But you're stinking up that
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: joints every time you do it. So you're in this
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: conundrum where you're like, do I go in there and
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: and just sit it every every day for ten days,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: twelve days, fifteen days in a row in the same spot,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: or do you just gamble and go in once every
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: five days and just hope you're there? Could be five
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: years before you have the time in the stand where
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: you do that's trick. And I feel like on the
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: white tail side the way like I've always tried to,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: there's no perfect dance with that. It's okay. I think
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: of where I have that best chance. So if you
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: think there's the ten percent best chance in this stand
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: and then it's you wait for some set of conditions,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: it's going to give you an increase in that, and
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: you don't go in until you have the best set.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: So on the one day when you're actually gonna have
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: a sixteen percent chance because the cold front hit, then
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: that's your day going there. Or just like I said,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: every day you go in there, it goes from ten
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: to nine to eight, seven to six. So I'm like,
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: I'd rather do three hunts and get sixteen versus. And
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that's tough though, And that's tough, and that's what I
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: started doing later on because I cared more about getting
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: a big buck. You know. It's just the challenge of
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: the unicorn that we call it. You know, I'm trying
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: to find that unicorn in the woods. But it's it's
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: it's a tough decision to make. But I thought, what
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: I what I felt like if I could, if if
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: I could go in there and keep my eyes on cameras,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I started to get a feel for those in heat
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: right and there. It's hard to tell if you're looking
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: at the same dough right because they all kind of
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: look the same, but you start started to get a
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: feel for how many doughs were out there, and does
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: and fawn mixtures, like this dough has one fawn, this
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: doll has three, this dough has two, and they were
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: they and so I kind of like, okay, there's there's
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: like three fawns. There're three doughs with fawns. I started
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: to pick out and yeah, and then I was like, okay,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: so there's not a lot out there. You know, you're
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: talking three doughs and their babies and and then a
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: couple of big bucks and some young bucks. So the
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: young bucks are stupid. I mean anybody, I mean, I
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: mean not to discourage anyone who shoots a three year
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: old black tail, because it's still a challenge, but there's
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: there's no comparison and how how easy it is to
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: kill a three year old black tail versus a six
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: year old black there's not even in the same planet universe,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: you know. But when I would go out there, I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: I started to feel out the dos and then I
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: could see him squatting a pea and running around and
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: doing odd rutting behavior. Started to pick that out on
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: the camera, and I had a number of cameras up
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: so I could walk in check the cameras, and I
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: started to go, well, if I don't see any rutting
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: activity on the camera whatsoever, then I'm not going to
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: hunt the stand because it didn't really pay off. And
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: that's where I started to be able to spend less
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: time because you sit there eight hours. It's bad enough
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: you gotta walk in, check your camera and walk out,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: but still you're not sitting there just sort of letting
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: scent dissipate hour after hour after hour. And I found
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: that that worked best. And so what I would do
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: is it was funny. I would go in like every
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: other day and check the camera and I'd come out
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: my dad and I would sit down on the living
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: room table and I go through the camera and he's
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: just like, you know how it is? You're like, is
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: he there is here? What are they doing this? One?
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden and hes there. It's on
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: it's on, it's on, and then it's like from that
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: day on, I'd sit three or four days in a
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: row and and surely there would be action almost every
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: time conditions. I just feel like I was so close
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: to making it happen on so many but so keeps
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: straw back. But let me ask you this, Like you
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: could have spent time chasing a different deer, Like I
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: know of other box that are easier to target on
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: other property, And I could have spent my time invested
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: in something where the bucks was even bigger. Like when
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: I talk about Lefty being big, he's he's big, but
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: he's not like he's not like a lot of black tails,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: you know, a hundred thirty blacktail, and I'm like, oh
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: my god, the biggest blacktail I'd ever seen on this property.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Or I lived and I grew up. But for me
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: and I did that film with timber Net that went
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: on Solo hunter um about black tails and trophy places
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: what we call it. That's where I grew up. And
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: there's something sentimental from either there's something of a challenge.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: It wasn't about the size of the deer, it was
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: about getting it done in that place that I cherish
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: where I have childhood memories I can, so I sit
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: there and I'm like, but I have been so much
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: better off, you know, going up to the Upper Clackamus
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: or these other areas where we know they're giant box
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: and there are a lot easier to kill. And because
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: that's one thing I would say is I would hunt
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: with my buddy Anthony. We would go um up in
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: the Cascades and hunt black tails. And the second season
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: typically was around November. And I've seen and and those
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: bucks and that and that. The area up there, those
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: deer tend to act a little more like the white
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: tail in Alabama, and so it's not like an urban
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: city center kind of place. They're not as cautious, they're
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: not used to humans being in there their space, and
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: they're running around and they're doing things differently. And so
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: if I hunted deer there, it was a lot different
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: than hunting them at my house. And I we went
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: up there four times, four or five times, and every
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: time we got a shot, and Anthony shot two nice
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: bucks up there, and we only went to there, like
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can count it on both hands. So
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: it's like, why don't we go in there all the time, right,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: I know what you're saying that there you have special places,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: especially when the memories are It was the chess match.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: When I went up on the mountains. It was like
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: you walk in, you find a trail, there'd be snow
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: a foot of it, maybe you see where the deer headed.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: You climbated a tree stand and it was fun and
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: the deer will be running around. But it wasn't the
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: deer that I had done reconnaissance with for eight months.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the deer that I had like a five
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: year history with. It wasn't. It's almost obsessively ridiculous, like
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: why would you? But but yeah, because you're not chasing
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: an animal, and like you're not chasing, there's different things
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: you're doing. You're you're in it for the fun of
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: the chase. And there is an interesting thing between hunting
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: deer versus hunting a deer and when you have an
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: opportunity to hunt a deer and learn a deer and
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: all that chest like we talked about, I mean that
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: is it just gets in your blood, does And I've
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: got I mean, I'm in a site. That's why I
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: liked your podcast to where I listened to it like
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: crazy because you're talking about Jawbreaker, You're talking about you know,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: you're I'm following, and I'm relating to you as I'm
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: thinking of the dear I've needed and that I'm following,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, it was so relatable to me and
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: the frustrations and the challenges and the goal, you know,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: trying to go after it. And when I looked around
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: and I talked to buddies, they didn't get it because
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: they're hunting like your most Western hunters do. There's not
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: a specific deer. We're not, you know, people aren't doing
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: it that way. And so it was fun to apply
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: what I learned from your show to the black Tail
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: space into what I what I experienced there and made
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: a whole movie around it. You know. It's so But
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: then at the same time, I mean, there's also something
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: really awesome about going to a brand new place and
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: what are we gonna find, how are we gonna make it?
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: We're gonna make it work? And do you you've never
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: seen before shows up and that is pretty special to
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: Aaron says, Uh, he's funny. He talks about white Tail
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: like the ones in Alabama. He talks some crap no, No,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: he's like, he's like, look, these deer are like the
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: ones that grew up in Chechenia. Like they He's like,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: they're there there. You know, you grow up in a
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: in a combat zone, you act differently, like you're always
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: checking over your shoulders. Like Kansas deer, they're like they
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: grew up in like suburban white neighborhoods and and they're
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: they're just nice. They're not warriors. Do not like warriors.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: They're not like and so he was talking about a
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: very good analogy. Yeah, and you're you're hitting these kids
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: that grew up in the hood that are always like
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: on high alert versus a kid that grew up in
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: in a a pretty soft situation. He said, Uh, it's
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: very very different hunting an animal like that. And that's
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: what we found in some of these areas because we've
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: both we've never owned a lot of land or had,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: you know, really nice places to hunt like like that.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: But Alabama, you could tell those those you're good hunted
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: even on this land, like Broderick was talking about, He's like, hey,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: out here on this property, there is not We don't
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: put a lot of pressure on them, We try not to,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: but every piece of property around this place. It's hammered. Yeah,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: that'll that will make an impact. I feel that that
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: way all the time. Michigan too, and it changes it
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: completly changes that Michigan like that. Yeah no, that said,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: though you still got it done right. Well. I mean,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like Bratt Broaderick was really cool. He um
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: he wanted to shoot. So Aaron Snyder and I have
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: vastly different personalities if people can't tell that the show. Uh,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: and yet we're like super good close friends like everything.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: We compliment each other well and uh, Aaron has no patience,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: you know, so sitting in a tree stand, for one,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: is something he can do but he does not like.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: And sitting still in a tree stand is even worse.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: I don't want to sit with Aaron a tree stands.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like anal retentive. I get in the stand and
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: I lean back and I am a statue. I don't
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: move a muscle and I sit there and I sit
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: like that for hours, and I'm geeking out the whole time.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know why. It's maybe and I don't I
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: don't remember being like that when I was younger, But
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: after Chasing Black Hills, I just you never know when
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: one's looking at you, you know, or when that big
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: bons coming in. And it seems like every time that
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: one time, like a you know, I'm gonna stretch my
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: legs then you there. So Aaron is not patient, and
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: Aaron also can't not shoot. So Brian's like, Aaron wants
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: to kill animals. He likes to, he likes to take
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: the shots. And and he's not all that big, he's not.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: He's never been a big antler chaser. You know. He
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: love to shoot a big animal, but he's not he's
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: not in it for that reason. Um. So, long story short,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: he shot those and it was funny because he'd sit
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: the stand, does would come in. He'd be getting towards dark,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: and he'd be like, it's almost dark, I'm gonna shoot
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: that dough. And it's like forty five minutes still dark
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: when the bucks are gonna come in, and Aaron's like, no, no,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shoot the dough. And it shoots the
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: dough and of course the whole like field act feel,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: just disappears and vacates and and and uh so he
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: did that twice. Um, and we're only hunting like four days.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: So I'm on the other hand, I have does walking
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: all around. I'm just waiting. I don't want to shoot
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: that the dough that's in heat that's gonna bring that
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: buck in. Yeah, that's my live decoil. And so and uh,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: I haven't had a lot of chances to shoot to
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: hunt um areas where they're they have white tails of
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: this caliber available, you know, So I was patient. I'm like,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: I'll I could shoot a dough anytime I want. I'm
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: gonna wait until that that buck comes in. And and uh,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: that's really the only difference. Aaron shot a couple of bucks,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: and and Daron shot a couple of bucks. I mean
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: a couple of does, a couple of dos like I
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: didn't see. Yeah, he shot a couple of does, and
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: I think that that highly impact his uh. And and
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: then he never there was never a buck that was
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: a shooter that came in lots of lots of other bucks.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: But and for me, it was like the last day
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: or second to the last day. Roderick took me into
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: a place and we had never used I've never used
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: the climber tree stand before. And he had a nice
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: alpha hang on climber and it was really cool. It
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: was neat. We just kind of like snipers snuck in there,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like got into this spot, got up in
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: a tree. Yeah, and and the wind was just right
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: and it was just breaking daylight. We got up in
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: the tree and we were not up in the tree
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes and deer were just coming out of woodwork everywhere.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: And uh, and it was neat because he's like buck,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: dear left, buck straight in front, there's a buck behind you,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: you know. And nothing was a shooter. But I'm seeing
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: all these deer and I'm like, oh, it's gonna happen.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: It's gonna happen. So earlier there was a giant white
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: tail the first day I climbed in the stand, and
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: you know how they are when they're running. He never stopped,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: like he was within range a couple of times, but
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: he just wouldn't. You could grunt and scream, like practically
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: yell at the thing. He did not care and he
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: was chasing a dough and there was no stopping him.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: He never spooked or got out of there. He just
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: never gave me a shot. And it happened a couple
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: of times throughout the morning. And after seeing that, dear
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't want I I you know how it is
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: like you see a one eight inch mule deer and
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're ruined for the rest of
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: the week because you can't get yoursel there. Yeah, he's
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: out there, might be totally And so I kept passing
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: on some other stuff. But this buck came in and
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: he was nowhere near the same caliber. But he was
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: a cool buck that that he was like four years
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: old or something, and and um, Brian had seen him
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: many times, and he wasn't too big a dear. He
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't he didn't look like he had the genetics that
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: he wanted long term. And I think it's just an
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: excuse to let me shoot it, because they typically don't
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: shoot a deer that that's small, like the rule on
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: the aight ridges, kind of like Dirk Durham over there,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: you know, or you know, like anyway, I I decided to.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: I decided to. He said green light, and so buck
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: down and I let it rip. And and this is
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: the thing that surprised me. I mean didn't surprise me,
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: but it just gave me him a new respect for
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: for whitetail. Um. I had been told by a lot
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: of people including Brian and Aaron that you know, it's
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: better to just shoot than it is to grunt or
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: get him to stop. And they kind of look and
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: they freeze and they get on edge and then they
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: hear the then the arrow goes and I cannot believe
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: how fast, how lightning fast, they are. Ump. He dropped
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: like almost I think a foot roughly, and so he's
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: only I think he's twenty five yards. And I put
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: that pin and I and I aimed low, just just
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: kind of low, just in case um he dropped, but
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: I wasn't low enough and so I'm three inches low
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: and he dropped a whole foot and so that arrow
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: hit him, actually hit him in the spine, and he
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: just hit the dirt, you know, And so I I
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: put another arrow in him, and he was done like instantly,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of it's kind of it's it's refreshing
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: and not when you see an animal drop right in
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: front of you and you don't have to track it.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: It's like a relief, like he's right there, like you
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: did it, You're done. It's like it's just at the
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: same time, you you hit something in the spine and
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: you're just like the whole time you wanted to be
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: over as fast as you can. You're like, I don't
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: like seeing this animal on the ground like that. Yeah.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: The first time I ever spind a deer, it was
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: a dough and it was it was like a really
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: painful experience for me too. I felt horrible because the
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: spinder she dropped, she was still moving around another shot
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: and I was freaking out rushed the second shot and
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: that wasn't the shot that was gonna end it immediately either,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: So then panicking again and grabbed the third arrow. And
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: you just feel, I mean, that is the absolute worst
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: thing you want to have happened. Yeah, it's and I
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, Aaron spind his as well. Both
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: of them they just dropped. And I have the film,
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: and I had the film of the buckeye shot and
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: he's standing there and Brodrick actually grunted. I was at
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: full draw. I was kind of kind of let him walk.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: But the wind was blowing straight straight toward the buck,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: a stiff wind out in front of the buck, i
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: should say, And so another ten yards and he was
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: going to hit our wind, our wind pattern, you know,
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: he'd be down wind of us. And so we knew
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: he was coming in close, and Brodrick was like, Okay,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: that's far enough. And I was at full draw and
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping for him to stop, and
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: he just decided, well, it's better to stop him there
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: and get him on edge than it is for him
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: to smell us and just bolt. So he he grunted
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: and the bucks stopped, and he looked right at us,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: of course, and I didn't give him much time. I mean,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: I already had the pin pretty much settled and I
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: let it rip, and he on the video you market
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: where he's standing and where he drops too, and the
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: arrow is perfect. It's gonna punch center punch him, and
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: he just it just he just drops and I couldn't believe.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, his legs went down, his elbows were almost
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: on the ground. I'm like, man, that is just a fast,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: fast response. I feel it's so often it happens, and
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: that doesn't happen, Like muledeer don't do that. You know
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: they can, but it's just not common. Mule deer, elk, blacktail.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: It's but those white tail have such a fast, twitch
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: like speed about them. That's cool. So what do you
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: think do you want to do? It again, would you
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: ever go on like a Midwestern white tail hunt? See
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: what that's all about? Is that has that intrigued you yet?
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: So I talked to Aaron about this before we even
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: we're very we we'd only know each other about a
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: month or two, and I was telling him how much
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed blacktail hunting, and we talked about white tail
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: and he was he said, based in the answer is yes.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: I I think that I love the chess match, I
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: love sitting in a tree, and I love ambush hunting.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: I love ambush hunting. I like spotting stock as well,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of that. Any any hunters
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: has been on the West West Side a lot. You
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: just that's what your bread and butter is. But I
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: won't deny that finding a spot where you're gonna where
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: you predict animals will will come, and sitting and wait
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: for me, that is fun. That is fun. Whether that's
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: you know, a thicket of bushes, you know, a ground
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: blind when you made yourself or when you popped up,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: or a tree stand, it doesn't matter for me. It's
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: the sitting and the waiting and knowing that that you're
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: And I learned this from still hunting, like I've still
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: hunting blacktails a lot. Still hunting for black tails is
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: almost the guys that are really good at it, they
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: walk a foot or two and they stand still for
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: five minutes. And they walk a foot or two and
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: they stand still for five minutes, I mean two minutes.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: Three minute a long time, and it might take them
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: an hour to get yards. And I've learned from from
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: hunting blacktails that I used to think I was quiet
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: when I would sneak into the woods. So when I
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: started walking into my stand hunt, I would do that
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: where I would walk in and you climb up in
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: your tree stand. And tried to explain this to guys
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: who haven't done a lot of trees stand hunting. Climb
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: up in your stand and you sit there and you're like, man,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: I was so sneaky. I got in here so quietly.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: You're in their stand, and all of a sudden you
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: hear like this bird starts to chirp, and then another bird,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: and then you see like a a squirrel pop out,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: and then birds, and then the forest just turns on.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: It turns on, it's going crazy and berzerko. And you're like,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: I wasn't sneaky at all, not in the slightest And
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: I thought about that. I thought about that a lot,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: since one I think I'm meaning quiet and I'm going
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: through the trees, the animals are like ducking for cover
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: and they know what's up, and so they might as
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: well have a megaphone outgoing someone's coming comes because those deer.
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: I've seen it happen where I'm up in my stand
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: and some dog or something comes uh out and starts
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: kind of walking down one of the trails and the
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: forest just ripples like with silence until it reaches my spot.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: It's like it's like they know. And the deer they
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: go up on edge, they may not see or hear
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: the dog. They just saw the squirrels and the birds
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: and everything else that went on alert or acted funny
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: and and they ditch it. So if I'm still hunting
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: the wrong way, that's tough, man. It's tough to like
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: make it work. So I've learned that there's a lot
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: of value in ambush hunting UM, and so I do like,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: even when I'm hunting out to go out and sit
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: in a spot um and wait for them to come
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: to me rather than me blunder through the trees in
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: their living room and bump them around. That's that's hard.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's hard for a lot of guys,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: especially out the West, that are born and raised on
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: stalking them around. It's hard to sit and wait and uh,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: it's interesting what you said about the ambush side, because
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of people can't relate unless you haven't done it.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: But there is something about it's it's like a pre hunt.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: All the work you do and thinking about that chest
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: mass match and looking at maps and scouting and setting
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: tree stands or trail cameras, that's almost the hunt and
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: all that. It's like this, it's in your head work
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: and once once you get up in there, that's okay. Now,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: let's just see if it's like hitting dominoes. Did I
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: align these dominoes up right now? We're just gonna tap
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: that first one. We're gonna see what's gonna happen, and
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: watching those dominodes trickle down till it comes. When that happens,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: that is like a tremendous feeling of satisfaction. Yeah, I
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: don't happen often, but when it does. Aaron and I
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: have talked about this a few times where out West.
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you get the out West guys that are
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: like those white tail guys. It's so easy to just
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: walk out on a farm. They got food plots, the
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: climbing is stand. They just shoot the first thing that comes.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: It's like baiting. It's like they make it sound like
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: it's this easy thing that anybody can do. And I'm
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: sure there are pieces of proper yeah where that's but
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: that is not the norm. But you know, we always
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: think it's easier than it really is when it when
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: you haven't walked in another man's shoes. But as soon
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: as you climb up into a tree and air, and
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: I have talked about this. Hell, if it's fifty degrees
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: outside and you're sitting there and you don't have the
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: right clothes, you're freezing to death in like one hour.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: It's all you can do to stay up in the stand.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: And so and then you guys are hunting in some
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: weather that's just stupid, like negative twenty degrees and you're
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: sitting for hours and hours, And that right there is
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: its own level of mental toughness and mental discipline that
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of Western hunters are like dude
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: ways two pounds and can't climb up a hill that
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: the dude can sit in negative thirty all day long.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: It's a different kind of tough. There's something there to
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: be said about it. Yeah, it's it's all good, right.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's all these different types of hunting and
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: it's all got its own fun and secretly crave you know,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: tree stand the hunting. Yeah, it's like my I love
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: guilty pleasure. Yeah, I like to climb up there. And
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: part of it is because I like quiet contemplation time
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: time where I just sit and watch things and uh,
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: and that's where glassing in the West, Aaron and I
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: do a lot of glassing to where you just sit
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: all day long and you just watch stuff through your buying.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: And that's that's also very it's similar feeling in terms
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, you know, it's funny when I think
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: when I'm like talking to people that haven't gone out
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: West and or the other way around, there's two different, unique,
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: really cool things going on when it comes to like
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: not just the hunting aspect, but like the internal aspects.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: So I feel like when you're white tail hunting, just
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: like you said, you get this opportunity which is very
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: rare in today's crazy modern life. To be able to
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: sit still and not have anyone asking something of you
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: or talking to you. Just gotta sit, be still, be present,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: and you have time to think about you have time
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: to unpack things that are going on in your life,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: or you have times just to do that. So that's
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: having time to go within yourself very cool. On the
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: other side of the thing, when you're a Western hunting
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: in your spotting stalking, at least my experiences out west,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: because you're fully engaged in that moment, moving through the woods,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: checking the wind, where what's going on? Why am I
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: stalking in here? You're every step you take, every action
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: you take, you are fully one in that moment thinking
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: about the next step, so you don't think about anything.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: You think about nothing in the outside world except for
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: what's the very next thing I'm going to do. So
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: it's true, it's it's really interest. There are too complete
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: opposite sides of the coin in that way, but the
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: far extremes of each side. So either you're in the
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: moment or you're one available to go inside yourself, and
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: it's very very cool either way. It's like when I'm
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: elk hunting and we're bugling and we're calling an elk
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: and it's just running gun from morning till dark four
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: or five as in a row. I haven't even thought
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: about my kids once, like like I mean, I'm it's
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: especially if the conditions are snowy or cold or life
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: and death at times where we're in the mountains and
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: it's it's just h or it's raining hardcore. I mean,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just to suffer fest those times. Um,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: it's all about surviving, achieving that goal. You're you're you're
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: focused on that one thing, toughing it out mentally, staying
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: in the game and all of that. I don't think
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: you and you do you you emails, not a thing,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: you know, pms whatever, messages, posting something, uh, you know
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: your kids, uh, you know, swim practice. Like it's just
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: none of it's on your radar at all. And I
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: think it's really good to to unplug from life that fully.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: All Right, Before we move on, we're going to take
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: one final short break for a word from our partners
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: at the White Tail Institute of North America. And with
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: fall food plot season coming very quickly, producer Spencer Newharth
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: connected with one of white Tail Institute's food plot experts
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: to get the low down on some of the best
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: fall food plot options we can be considering this year.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: This week with White Tail Institute, we're talking to consultant
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: John Cooner about their special blend of Imperial white Tail
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: beats and greens which is designed to hold deer fall
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: all the way through winter. The Beachs and Greens is
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: a is a neat product. It is an all Braska product,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: but it's unusual and it's a blend of of multiple
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: brask of rise that serve a number of purposes. The
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: main ones are that they provide together attraction and food
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: for deer from the fall all the way into and
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: maybe through the dead of winter. The components are sugar beachs.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: Most folks know how attractive they are to deer when
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: you plan them in the fall. It's got tall time
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: turnip in it, which is a turnip variety of that
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: the White Tail Institute developed six years specifically for deer.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: The tall Time turn up the foliage is for late
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: fall through winter. It also has a kale variety in
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: it that is unusual when compared to most kale varieties,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: and that's loose leafed UH is very attractive to deer.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: UH it's a vegetable cultivar that that does not grow
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: on a tight head the way a cabbage does. And finally,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: there's the white Tail Institute for its well radish that
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: maximizes the attraction over the long term by adding forage
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: and tubers for later in the year as a secondary
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: benefit the product because of the tubers produced by the
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: radish and UH tall time tubers can actually improve this quality,
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: especially of compacted soils, by drilling down even a couple
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: of feet into the soil and making wide spaces to
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: help water and air move UH and any tubers that
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: remain after winter will break down the following spring and
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: even improve the quality of soil by adding organic matter.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: But the main thing is it's built for attraction of
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: deer all the way through fall and through the winter.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more info on White Tail Institutes forage products,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: check out white Tail Institute dot com, where they also
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: carry some of the top supplements, attractions, and herbicides available.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: I want to talk. I want to talk about something
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: that I think just based on talking with you and
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: every time I've listened to you and I know some
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: of the things you recommend and do. I think this
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: is something that you probably think about a lot too,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: and you you you touched on it right there. And
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: I think it applies equally in different ways, but equally
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: to hunting out west or hunting white tails. To be
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: very successful at it, mental toughness. And I think mental
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: toughness is something that doesn't get a whole lot of
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: talk when it comes to hunting. I mean, we we
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: talked about where to hang my tree stand or how
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: do we find where elk bed? Or how do I
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: shoot better? All these like physical tangible things we have
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: to do. But if there's any quality I see in
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: in most of the really consistent successful hunters, it's those
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: people have that mental toughness. I know you're a big reader,
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: um so I imagine you're you're tapping to some things
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: and some I know, some people that we share interested
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: in have this. What are your thoughts on that? I mean,
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: at the high level you agree with me? Is that
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: is that is important? I think it's everything. And I
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: think I've heard this a lot. I think it's it'll
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: tie to I mean, all your success in life can
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: be linked to self discipline and mental toughness and believe me.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: I mean there's certain things I'm real tough in and
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: some things where I'm not. But in general, um, Stephen Ronella.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: I did a podcast on Meat Eater a while back
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: with Denver Rourke. It's a great one. I really recommend
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: check to check that out. And he talks about he
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: talks about this. I think that, um, you know, the
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: question is that that get gets pose on that podcast
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: and erin. I've debated this a few times. Is it
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: learned or is it genetic? You know, you're born with
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: it or you I think it's both. I think there's
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: a combination of both. I think that you we all
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: have our natural inclinations regarding mental toughness or natural abilities
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: physical abilities. Right, I can't dunk a basketball, you know, um,
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: and so we all have we're all varied and so
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: what we can do genetically, but we're also and I
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: think your your mind and your capacity to be tough
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: mentally goes with that. But we all have the ability
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: to be shaped by circumstances as well, depending on how
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: we decide to react to them. And I think that
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: you might it's I absolutely believe that you can develop
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: and and hone mental toughness. It's a muscle. Yep. Everybody's
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: going to be born with it to a certain extent, naturally,
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: of course, but wherever you're at, we've already established it's
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: a valuable commodity. You want it, so so why not cultivated?
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: So for me, I I've talked about this a few times.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: I followed whim Hoff. Um. He was on Joe Rogan.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: He's been on like a few podcasts, right, and he's
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: the iceman um. And there's the whim Hoff method, which
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: is a breathing method and you getting the ice water
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: and you freeze to death. You know. The guy has
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: a way of of breathing. And so he's met client
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: climb Mount kilman jar O and uh yeah, a couple
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: other in his in his shorts um and a pair
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: of pair of boots. I think he might have done
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: a barefoot too. Uh. He's done some crazy stuff he's
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: on he's on the Joe Rogan podcast and he goes
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: goes into a lot of detail there, but basically he's
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: done some things through his mind that are pretty fascinating.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: Um And I won't bore people with it, but it's
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: something to look into. But he talks about finding comfortable,
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: comfort and discomfort, and he tells you that happiness is
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: actually in the struggle in in not being comfortable and
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: being cold when when you'd rather be warm, being hungry
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: when you're you know, when you want to eat, and
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: he and he talks about how the human body and
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: psyche needs these acute stresses and needs these these moments
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: too two to respond to and overcome to be happy
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: and healthy. Well, I don't know about you, but climbing
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: into cold water for five minutes or fifteen minutes or
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: ten minutes the first thing you do when you client
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: let's say it's it's thirty degrees outside and you're gonna
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: go get inside of a cold lake. How long do
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: you think you'll stay in there? Mark? Not very long. Yeah,
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: it sucks like it sucks. The second you get in there,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: everything inside your brain is saying, get out, get out,
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: get out, get out. This is awful. This is painful,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: this is awful, this is horrible. Everything is like, get
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: out of the water. But you're like, no, no, we're
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: staying here for five minutes. And you do that, and
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: then you go back and you do it again. For
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: saying you've done this, yes, yes, and get it. But
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: you're doing this as an exercise a mental top can
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: I can I mind over body and I mind over body.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: And by doing that, by by flexing that muscle in
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: that way, you're able to who was an experiment? Yeah,
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: and so my brother proving yourself you can do. My
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: brother was born when I was about sixteen years old,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: so we didn't grow up together. But he got leukemia
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: when he was like five something like that, and uh,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time sick and playing video games.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: And during the time right when he should have been
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: getting his butt beat, uh, he was maybe going to
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: die from camp sir. So my parents really didn't. You know,
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: he got away with everything anything he wanted. He just
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: kind of got because maybe he's gonna be dead tomorrow,
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So during those formative years
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: he kind of got pretty darn spoiled. And I think
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of discipline and character that he did
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: not develop because he got spoiled. Um in a way.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, sure surely Chemo's no picnic. He still had
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: to mentor yeah, but it was different, like he didn't
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: get disciplined in the same way the rest of us did.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: As he got older. You know, he definitely admitted I
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: don't have a lot of mental toughness, and uh, we
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: were talking about this and he wanted to develop it.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: And he saw the whim off thing and he's like,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. And as a kid who had
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: a hard time like staying enrolled in school, and you know,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: he's setting his mind to something he quit after it
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: got hard, you know, and this was like, I'm gonna
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: do this. And I watched him over the course of
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: six eight months every day with it. Started it out
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: with just a few minutes in the water, and then
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: it was five minutes, then it was ten, and then
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: it was thirty. And he got to a point where
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: and he made himself do it. Every day was a struggle.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: It never really got easier. It always sucked for the
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: first bit, you know, but then it would feel good
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: later throughout the day that he accomplished that. And I
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: think I think you can through through small baby steps
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: of making yourself do things that you don't want to do.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: Developmental toughness, you have Dave Rams he talks about He
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: says something like kids do what they feel like doing.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: Grown ups do what they know is good. For him,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: because it's good for him. Right. My daughter is like, hey, Bryan, Dad,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go to I don't want to
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: go on Dad, I don't want to go on this
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: hike with you and Aaron. And I'm like, you know what, honey,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: I know you don't want to go on this hike
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: with me, but it's good for you. And grown ups
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: do things that are good for them even though they
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: don't want to. And she's like, I hate it when
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: you say that. It's true, honey, You're gonna do it
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: because it's good for you, and you don't have the
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: mental toughness right now to make yourself do it. So
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: that's why you got a parent. I'm here to make
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: you take care of yourself until you're old enough to
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: have the discipline to do that on your own. That's
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: how I developed character, you know. My dad's like, you're
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: chopping wood today, and I'm like, I don't want to chop.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: All we do is chopping wood. He's like, I don't care.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: It's good for you, and you're gonna do it because
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: I said so. And then later as a grown man,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we need wood. I'm gonna go chop it,
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like, I don't know, and it's maybe
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 1: sounds overly simplistic, but I think that you can develop it.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's your point. Um, it's funny. You
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: probably follow Jocko a little bit. Yeah, so Jocko Willing.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: There was one of those early early episodes they were
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: talking about this, him and uh mom blinking Echo, Echo, Charles,
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: Echo Charles, and they're talking about mental toughness, and Echo
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: asked Jockodi, how do you how do you do this?
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: How do you build a month of toughes? Jocko just says,
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: you do it. You decide, you decided to do it,
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: and you do it. And that goes like, well, no,
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be more. He goes back and says the
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: same thing. But um. But in the end Echo actually
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: had a good example of what he was doing. And
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's um, it's a good way to
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: go about and I think I apply this a little.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: I tried to apply this in my own life. And
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: he gave a little example of just a very simple,
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: very simple little thing. But he said, you know, he
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: wanted to try to become more mentally tough because he
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: felt like he didn't have that very much growing up
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't raising a way he had to flex that MU pushed.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: So he said, this has been on this has been
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: on his mind recently. So he was in the grocery
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: store aisle and he had like a case of beer
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: and something else heavy in his left hand, and he
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: had gotten this line. It was a very long line,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: and he wanted to let that case of beer and
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: the other heavy thing was left hand he wanted to
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: put on the ground. And he had long ways ago
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: and there was like lots and lots of groceries and
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: the ladies car knew is gonna be here a long time.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: He wanted to start everything down. He said, this is
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: he like took note though he was like mentally cognizant
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: of this opportunity. He said, you know what, No, I'm
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: going to use this as an opportunity to try to
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: build mental strength. And I'm just I'm not gonna I'm
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: choosing right now. I'm not going to set these down,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: no matter how long I have to wait, I'm not
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: setting it down. And I have to see if I
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: can do it, and I'm gonna do it. And it's
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: a stupid little thing, but he did it and then
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: once he did it, he said, hey, that was one
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: way I can make a mental decision to push through
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: an uncomfortable situation I usually wouldn't want to do, and
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: in some tiny, zero point one percent way, he improved
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: his mental toughness. And I think if you go through
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: life looking for opportunities like that and saying like, look
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: for me, I am not. I mean, I think everyone
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: hits a wall physically when they're doing some type of exertion.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm not some kind of g I Joe type dude.
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: But when I go and runs and stuff, I always
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: envisioned at the end, you know, I'm I'm conked out.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: It can't go any further, hit that wall and you've
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: got a hundred yards left to go or something. And
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: every time I get that that, I always think of
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: my head, this is that, This is where it's your mind. Man.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: This is if you're gonna Are you gonna kill that elk?
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna get to the top of the hill.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: Are you going to be able sit in that tree
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: stand when the big buck comes through? Are you going
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: to be the hand of the cold And you just
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: like have to go into your head and say no,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna push through it, going to overcome it. And
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: every little time you can do that, I think it helps.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: I agree. I also think that it's very good to
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: put be put in a situation where you have no choice.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: I was just talking to David Brinker and he was like, well,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: I really want to go on a solo moose hunt.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like really, He's like, yeah, where they drop me
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: off for seven days and they come back and get
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: you for ten days or whatever. And I'm like, that's
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: that's rugged. That's but there's He's like, I'm like why,
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: and he said, well, there's a certain amount of character,
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: I think, and growth that comes from the fact that
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: I have to make it like there's nobody else there,
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: there's no quit And like Denver was talking about being
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: in the Navy Seals and they're in Bud's training and
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: there's a bell there and at any more you can
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: walk over and ding the bell. How many of those
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: guys would have made it through the training and not
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: ding the bell If they were in a wartime situation
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: and it was similar drudgery, but it was it was
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: life or death, probably a lot of them would actually
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: tough it out right. It's the ability to quit. Like Echo,
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: Charles is holding those two things in his hand. He's like, well,
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: I could put it down, technically put down anytime he wants, right,
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: But if you're in a situation where it's like, well,
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: if you put it down, something dire is going to happen,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: and you find what you're really capable of. And I
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: think that often some of the best people I've met
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: that that have this kind of resiliency, some of them
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: were put in a situation where they were like, I
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: had no choice. You're like, wow, you overcame, you did
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: some stuff that was phenomenal, and they're like, yeah, if
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: you'd asked me if I could have done that, I
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: would have said no, I never could have done that.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: But I had no choice, and then I found out
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: what I was really made of. Cameron Haynes to about
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: running the Boston Marathon with Lance Armstrong. He's like, yeah,
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: I'm running and running and running. I'm thinking I'm dying
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: halfway through and I'm like, I can't do this. And
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: he gets up by Lance and he's like, Lance, I'm
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: dying here. I'm dying, you know, or he actually last
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: asked Lance, how are you feeling? And he's like, I'm Evan.
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: He's like, I'm having dying man. And so Kim was like, what, like,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: if he's dying, then then then the way I feel
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: I'm dying. But he's gonna keep pushing, and so he's like,
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: my goal was just to stay with him. And then
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: he did a little longer than pretty see. He's like,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: no matter what, I'm not gonna I'll die before I stopped.
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 1: And mentally he decided and he made it and he
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: did it, and he said, uh, he said something about
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: they ran the second half of the Boston Marathon faster
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: than they ran the first half and that there's only
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: like a couple of people in history that have ever
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: done that, and it's him and Lance Armstrong and like
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: a couple of others, and so that's phenomenal, right, And
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: he thought at halfway and he's like, there's no way
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: I can go any faster, and if I keep this
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: pace up, I'll never make it to the end. And
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: he's like, I just realized at that point that we're
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: so much more capable of things than we think we are.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: And I always think about that, you know, he said.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: Marcus la Trail talks about how most people quit when
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: they still have left or something like that. It's some
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: crazy amount of And so I always think about that
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: when things are tough and it's hard and I'm mentally
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 1: grinding it out. I'm trying to make it to the
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: top of the trail. Someday I'd like to be Aaron
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Snyder to the top. It's probably not gonna happen, but
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep trying. I'm gonna still keep coming at it.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: And the thing of it is, sometimes I'm like, how
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: much of its physical ability, how much it's mental toughness,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: how much of it is Aaron is just mentally tougher
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: than me, and that haunts me right, Like I'm competitive.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. And so I'm like, dig deeper,
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: call go harder, you know, drop if you have to.
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: And there are times where I'm climbing at nine thousand
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: feet behind Aaron and I literally have so little oxygen
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: that I'm I'm about to black out, like I'm allowed
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: about to, Like I see a little bit of stars
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, so down little and then your oxygen
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: comes back and uh, and and I resume hiking, but
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: pushing it to that limit. I mean, I also think
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to die, you know, it's just you know,
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: you might fall down, but it's not a life and
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: death situation. I think a lot of people blow up
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: in their mind how difficult something is. It's like, well,
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: yes it's hard, but no one you're gonna be around tomorrow,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: you know. Just pain. Yeah, I feel like I feel
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: like that. It just comes into place so many times
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: in hunting situations, whether it be dealing with bad weather
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: on a bad country trip, or whether it be just
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: dealing with seventeens eight hours sits in or oh where
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: you don't see the buck you're after, and finally, damn it,
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just on sleep, but I'm not smoking up before him.
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 1: But you know what, that's the day that you would
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: have seen him. I agree. What about this? Let me
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: ask you this because I think this is very much
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: tied to this whole discussion on mental toughness. This this
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: thing I'm about to talk about negativity. I think that
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: it takes an extreme level of mental toughness not to
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: be negative goes hand in hand. I agree. That means
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: trash talking somebody else in a negative way. That means
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 1: like being a hater on the internet, all that stuff,
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: to me is mental weakness. There's there's it's giving into
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: it's and usually it's rooted an ego and pride, and
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: it's usually done to belittle someone else to make yourself
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: feel better. When I see someone who's hating on someone else,
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: who's trying to achieve, trying to do good things, trying
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: to make a difference. When I see that, I'm just
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: like that negativity that hate, I think it's weakness coming
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 1: out of their mouth. And mentally tough people often I
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: think they they put that in check and they say,
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm not gonna be that guy. I'm
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: gonna be this positive person that does positive things, and
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: and that builds that mental toughness. And I think and
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: then that also applies to actually being able to execute
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: on um, you know how you can execute on not
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: on anything, whether it be dealing with a tough situation
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: in life, or whether it be you know, a social
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: engagement or dealing with criticism, or looking at someone else
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: and comparing yourself and say, oh man, he's doing really great.
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: I wish I was doing that great. And the easy
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: thing is to, like you said, get negative, say well, yeah,
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: but there they got this hand or well yeah, but
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: they're jerks or whatever you want to say. Um, but
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: if you look at it the other way and you
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: maintain that of attitude about whether it be a product,
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: you're working on, a hunt, you're going on, that I
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: think is like a developed a snowball effect. And if
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: you can stay in the game, stay positive, staymentally tough,
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: you put yourself in a position to eventually be in
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: the places you want to be, whether it would be
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 1: successful business, whether it be getting the shot, whether I mean,
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: I think positive self talk, but positive treatment of others,
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: they all go hand in hand. Because it's so easy
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: to become to give into our natural instincts to be
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: negative and hate on someone. And man, that's that's awfully
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: prevalence in this hunting world. Well, I think in this
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: social media world in general, right, Like it's so easy
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: now to be a to be cruel or mean, or
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: or or belittling. And again I think it that serves
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: the weaker side of us. Um, if you want to
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: start developing some mental toughness, don't give into that. Be positive.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: And you may not like something someone else produces, You
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: may not be a fan of their their exercise, routine
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: or how they shoot a bow or how you know,
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: their comedy routine, whatever it is. But to me, it's
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: like you cannot be a fan of that but also
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: respect them and that other people do appreciate or or
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: value them. Uh. So there's there's no Like I said,
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: I just feel like it's it's it's it's giving into
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: that base instinct that you have, that weak instinct. And
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: if you want to develop some mental toughness, start with
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: being positive when you when you feel that urged to
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: be a little someone else. Yeah. Uh speaking social media, right,
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: there's this tendency and it starts with TV two with
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: regular media and then social media and that you know,
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: going back to just the hunting world and we see
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: so and so killed a big buck, or so and
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: so got this great thing, or even just in life,
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: so and so's business is doing so much better than
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: mine or so and sos whatever. Um, and you start
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: comparing yourself to others and and this is something I've
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: personally struggled with, Like, um, I find myself constantly comparing
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: myself and feeling bad about myself because I'm not doing
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: as good as acts are. So and so did that.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: Why can't I do that? Why didn't I do that?
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with me? And it's something I'm I'm aware of.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: I think step one is being aware of it. You
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: can then you can then make it in you can
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 1: make a change based on awareness. But it's it's like
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: a natural thing that happens to me. And I think
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 1: this affects a lot of people. Is like satisfaction with hunting.
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: This impacts you know how much you enjoy going out
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: there when you start getting putting pressure on yourself or
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: looking at Facebook during November and feeling bad because this
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: guy killed them and that guy killed and I can't
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: I why can't I? Um? How do you deal with that?
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: Do you do? You have those types of feelings sometimes
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: you feel I think I think people would be lying
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: if if they said they didn't in general, and I
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: think we all go through that. Um. You know, it's
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: a good question. I feel like, Um, the way that
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: I deal with it is I focus on gratitude, gratefulness. Um.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: My wife went through cancer a couple a few years ago,
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: and uh, it was it was a hard time for me.
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: I in fact didn't handle it how I hoped I would.
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it was a little I wanted to be
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: that mentally tough guy. Um, and there were moments where
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: I had breakdown, said I didn't see coming that I
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: didn't think i'd have. So I think that what what
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: what I found was, it's really tough when you're when
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: you actually sit back and you're like, I am so
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: thankful for what I have and for who I've met,
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: and for my kids and my wife, and I'm so
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: grateful for the health I have and the physical abilities
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: I have a possess. And and you go through that list.
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, not be the richest guy, but
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: hey man, I am so I love this truck. You
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: know I could afford that. You know, you start going
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: through it sounds silly, but you start going through all
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff that you're grateful for. I think it's really
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: difficult then to sit there and think about and dwell
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: on all the things you don't have that someone else
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: has that you don't have. And so I try every
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: day to to wake up and two things. Be grateful.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: Be be truly grateful for for for everything. And also
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: live for today, not not for tomorrow, not for I'll
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: be happy when not for you know, as soon as
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: I kill that elk everything is good. No, today today
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: was awesome. Every day is awesome, and even days where
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I just all I did was drive
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: kids to to school and drop them off and man
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: clean the house, and you know, it's like it's not
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: what I wanted, and yet it was a great day,
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: you know. And I think when you start approaching life
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: from that perspective, Um, it's you stop doing the comparison thing.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: That's how I come combat and that's how I do it. Yeah,
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 1: I think you're spot on. I mean, that's that's my
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: antidote that I'm always trying to remind myself too. It's like,
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 1: you can't be negative and if you if you take
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: every time you're feeling negative like that and replace it
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: with gratitude, the two things can't co exist. So you
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: can if you seem like fear and faith, you know,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: I believe Sometimes I'm sitting there and I'm like, is
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: Gritty Bowman like a waste of time? Or is Gritty
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: Bowman really gonna go the distance? Am I making a difference?
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: Am I adding value? And you start to have doubts, um,
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: And I think it's very easy for us to focus
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: on fears, right, and uh, and am I creative enough?
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: Am I is this film becoming what I wanted to be? Uh?
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: And when I focus on that, you're focusing on fear.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: But when I focus on I believe eve I can
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: do this. I believe that this is making a difference.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: I believe this is important for me. I believe that
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: I can make a film or or you know, interview
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: or do some stuff that, read a book and share
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: that that that's going to make a difference. And Uh,
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: when I focus on that. And in the faith, faith
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: and fear don't really go together. You know, a belief
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: that you can do something or a fear that you can't,
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 1: they're totally different. It's like it's like a shield almost
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like we're gonna have negative things are
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: gonna come at us. We are going to have fears
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: are gonna come at us. And if you can learn
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: to identify that and say, okay, here it comes. I
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: know what's happening, I know what's going on in my
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: head right now, and then you know, okay, now I
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: put that shield. I'm gonna believe I'm going to be positive.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: It sounds so cliche, but the truth is that's what
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: I think. And it's it's that like, this is life stuff,
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: and then this is also some of the best hunting
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: advice you're ever gonna get, I think, because if you
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: can apply these mental um to rules I suppose to
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: what you're trying to achieve in the woods are in
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: the mountains, dude. It goes back to if you don't
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: believe you're gonna be able to kill a blacktail buck,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: you know, on Saturday when you're heading out, then you're
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: not gonna You're not going to decent your clothes the
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: way you really should. You're not gonna wear the rubber boots,
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: You're not gonna you're not gonna shoot your bow. There's
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: all these things you're not gonna do because you're like,
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna work anyway. Yes, it's so mental and
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: and so when you have faith and you believe, then
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: you do all these activities that lead to success. I
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: just I think you have to combat fear with with
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: belief and and if you if you don't um it's
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: self fulfilling. You know, your failure is it can happen.
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: And the thing is is again it goes back to,
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: so it didn't work out, I'm grateful that I spent
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 1: a whole day in the wilderness, like taking in creation, right,
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: like taking in the world. It's it's an amazing place.
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: So it all goes back to to you know, success
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: in the mountains or in the in the woods. It's
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: the same, Um, there really is. And I love talking
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: about this stuff. Yeah you Um. I feel like we
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: share a lot of similar reading interests. Um for people
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: listening that want to learn a little bit more, just
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: kind of engage in these types of discussions a little
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 1: bit more with a book. Um, do you have anything
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: you'd recommend? Yeah, um, I guess, And there's some of
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: the same things that I would Yeah, you know. I
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: did a podcast on Extreme Ownership with that Jocko Willing
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 1: wrote and uh, that's one of our highest downloaded podcasts
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: of all time. And it's really it's ironic because it's
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 1: not a hunting podcast really, I mean, it's it's a
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: flat out book review, right, And we talked about the
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: book now it ties in Corey Jacobson and I did
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: it and uh, Jordan Harbertson have Mountains and it was
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: a good it was great. And then we did another
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: one called Ego as the Enemy, and I feel like
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 1: that was that book is so um important in our
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: time right now, where you can just say whatever you
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: want on the Internet and people are kind of out
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: of touch with reality, and um, it's very easy to
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: just I don't know, ego seems to just be a
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: huge I just see it everywhere I turn, and I
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: don't our culture kind of cultivates. The book was very
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: enlightening for a lot of people. I mean, it's funny
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: Corey Jacobson an Elk one on one He's like Ryan,
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: I got halfway through the book and the whole time
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: I was thinking, Man, this is just like my buddy
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: so and so. Man, this is just like so and So.
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: He gets halfway through the book and he's like, oh
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: my gosh, this book has been talking about me the
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: whole time. That was a huge eye opener. And I
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: think that you can't combat pride and ego if you
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 1: don't really see it. And so I think that's a
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: hugely important book. So we covered both of those and
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 1: that's why we did that. But the other books I
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: really like. Um, Jocko. Willing just did a book review
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 1: on Man Search for Meaning by Victor Frankel. Haven't I've
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: read that book at least twenty times, man searching for Meaning,
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 1: Man's search for mean, Man's search for meaning, and a
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: kid you not at least twenty times. It's a short read,
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: but I have read it at least once a year
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: for twenty years. And uh. He is a Nazi concentration
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: camp survivor, a Jewish Holocaust survivor, and he talks about
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: just Jocko approached it from a different angle than uh,
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: than I've kind of ever thought. I thought about it
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: in those terms, but you know, he's definitely approached it
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: from a slightly different angle than me. Um, it was
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 1: a great podcast to hear him go over it. But
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: it's a that to me is a life changing book. Um.
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: Then the other ones are like, you know when people
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: ask me, how did you Gritty Bowman and blah blah blah. Well,
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: a big part of that was, you know, the Total
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: Money Makeover with Dave Ramsey and Financial Peace University, getting
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 1: out of debt and learning to manage my finances better
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: and saving and planning in the four hour work week
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: by Tim Ferris. That was huge. That's how I negotiated. Eventually,
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: I was working from home three days a week and
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: only going to the office to which that allowed me
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: to do Gritty Bowman on the side. So getting my
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: finances in order, getting that career in order, and then
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: chasing some dreams through four hour week work week. And
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: then since then I've read a lot of what Tim
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: Ferris has produced and good stuff. So those are some
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: of the big highlights for me that that influenced, especially
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: in recent times. But I have an Audible account, and
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: I've had one since Audible launched audiobook account, and I
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: get like four credits or two credits a month I
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 1: can't remember now. I get two bucks a month basically
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: for twenty bucks, so they're about ten bucks each, and
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 1: then I buy an extra one here and there, but
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 1: I probably I use my credits every month. I read
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: or listen to an Audible two books a month, and
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: now I've got hundreds of books in that inventory because
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 1: it's been since it's been more than ten years since
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: I've since I've done that, and so a lot of
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: books out there. Man that are I say man, Dave
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: Ramsey says, you're the same person today that you are
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: twenty years from now, except for the books you read,
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: read and the people you meet. I like Ryan HOLLI
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: Ryan Holliday, who wrote the Ugo as the Enemy. He's
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: kind of enabled me. It had been a bad way.
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe people it's a good way. But I tell my
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: wife and she shakes her head because he always talks
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: about that. A book is a purchase that isn't you
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: is never the wrong purchase because you are giving yourself
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to walk in someone else's shoes, or to
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: open the door into a different world, to see the
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 1: world in a different way, to learn something. Every time
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to learn something that's worth that's
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: worth any dollar amount. I agree, And yeah, I think
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 1: just always learning exploring these things. Another one he wrote,
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: did you read The Obstacles Away? Yeah? I actually posted
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 1: that on Instagram two days ago. Um, that was the
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 1: one we we call we started what we call gritty
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 1: book Club. I've seen that and uh, I'd love to Uh,
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: I'd love to do. Can I be in your book club?
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 1: Nobody else ever reads these books? And I Randy Newberg's
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 1: in it now. He uh, he wants to join. We're
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 1: gonna do a couple of books on conservation nice where
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 1: we're he's he's he's, you know, read a ton of
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 1: those books, and I'm like, you know, deficient in this space.
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna read it and then talk about it.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 1: But the Gritty Book Club is just, um, we read
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 1: a book, you know, me and a friend or a
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 1: couple of friends, and then we do a podcast about it,
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 1: and it's sort of just not really the core podcast,
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: but um there. I love the idea of exposing people
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 1: to We can talk about it for an hour, right
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 1: hour and a half, two hour whatever it is. But
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 1: when you when you sit down with that book in
• 2:25:04
  Speaker 1: your own and you read, you know, a book that
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 1: takes twenty five hours to get through, It's way more
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 1: than I could tell you in fe hours and written
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: in such a way that someone puts her their heart
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 1: and soul into it, and I think it's that's really
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: life changing stuff. So I like to I like, I
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 1: like to do it. Um and uh So, Obstacles the
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 1: Way is the next one that Corey and I we've
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 1: finished reading it. Jordan and I are on it for
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 1: a second time, so we're supposed to get together and
• 2:25:33
  Speaker 1: discuss that one. But that one is really good speaks
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 1: to a lot of things we've been talking about here
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 1: the last minutes. What's your favorite fiction book, favorite fiction book. Wow, Okay,
• 2:25:46
  Speaker 1: well I'm a nerd, so my feeling you know that,
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 1: I know you know where I'm going with this. I
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: love it. I love it. I love the Lord of
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 1: the Rings, The Lord of the Rings. Every now and
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 1: then I got to send you a text or like
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 1: make fun of Jordan Harvardson Jordan knows us up and
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 1: off the wisdom, but it's it's yeah, it's a little
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 1: nerdy wizards, wizards and elves and everything, but it's the
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: it's the hero's tale that we all live in some
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 1: weird way where you know, it's phenomenal and there's there
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 1: really is wisdom in there. And I know that might
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 1: seem weird, but to read the book and there is
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 1: wisdom and their lessons learned and creativity. Yeah, and it's
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's pretty cool. I agree. I read, uh,
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 1: I read. I asked nonfiction because I I think that
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 1: it's hugely impactful as well. You know, I'm a big
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 1: fan of Harry Potter too. I love Harry Potter. I've
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: read those couple of times. I'd like to read it
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 1: with my kids, and um, I think those stretch yourself too.
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 1: So it's not all about nonfiction. Yeah, I'd love to
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 1: read it. So, but we did work for Google. Did
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: work for Google. You're one of those educated types like
• 2:27:04
  Speaker 1: that college kids. I always thought that I somehow slipped
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 1: through the cracks when I was working there. I just
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 1: kept I was always waiting for someone to walk up,
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 1: like Tatman the shoulder and say, hey, you're not to
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: be here. We don't know how this happened. Somehow I
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 1: made it through. But we're getting kicked out of our
• 2:27:20
  Speaker 1: little outdoor studio here. Yeah, yeah, so we're gonna have
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: to shut it down. But dude, and thank you. I
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: just want to say thanks for having me on the podcast.
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 1: It's pretty nat. I've been a big fan of all
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: your work and what you've done for for a long time.
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were the first person that did a
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 1: podcast in the outdoor industry that I reached out to,
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I just I really appreciate what you
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 1: do and I'm glad I got to be on your show.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 1: We did right back at it. It's been really cool
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 1: to see what you've been able to do and the
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: the positive difference you're making. And if anyone's not already
• 2:27:53
  Speaker 1: checking out the Gritty Bowman. You guys are doing great work.
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: You should check it out, subscribe, listen, and um, they
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: can find that anywhere. They can find the Wire Dump
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: podcast right iTunes, pod Bean, Stitcher, YouTube. That's one thing
• 2:28:07
  Speaker 1: that is a little different. Like I've done video episodes
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 1: since we started. In general, you know, I don't, I don't.
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: I most people just listen, but the video is out
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: there for some folks, which is cool. If I have
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: an attractive guest, the viewing goes up. You know, it's
• 2:28:26
  Speaker 1: like a thing. It's kind of funny. There's a pretty
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 1: girl on the podcast, and then all of a sudden,
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: my views. Well, I've always wanted to be a video mine,
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 1: but I live in country, back of the woods, corn Belt,
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 1: and my internet is so bad I can't even upload video,
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: let alone stream. Yeah, I'm having that problem to an evergreen, Um,
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 1: just a pocket of rats. I end up going to
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 1: the coffee shop a lot more than I thought. That's
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 1: what I have to do a lot too. And then
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 1: I pay for ridiculously expensive data plans from Verizon and
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: use that it. Yes, so great time with this man,
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: you appreciate it. Let's talk more, all right, and that's
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 1: going to be it. Thanks for sticking around for what
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 1: I believe it's been our longest podcast yet. But I
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed, especially what we got to here towards
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 1: the end. This topic of the mental side of hunting
• 2:29:20
  Speaker 1: and life. I think it's very very important as something
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: we typically don't think about, but it really can have
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: a significant impact on your life when you start being
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 1: mindful of that. So I hope you enjoyed it. I
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: just want to give you another reminder, like I talked
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: about at the top here, we're doing the live podcast
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 1: next week July twenty one, down in New Orleans at
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 1: the Quality Deer Management Association National Convention. Would love to
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 1: see you guys there, so be sure to check that out.
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: AM at the convention on July one, and then eight
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: pm that night, we're gonna do a wire to hunt
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: and meet up. I'd be awesome to see you there
• 2:29:57
  Speaker 1: as well. So that's all for me. Thank you are listening.
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 1: Big things to our partners at Sitka Gear YETI Cooler's,
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 1: Matthew's Archery, Mayben Optics, the white Tail inst to North America,
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 1: Trophy Ridge and Hunt Terra Maps, and of course thank
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 1: you all so much for listening. I hope you have
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: an amazing day and amazing week, and until next time,
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 1: stay wired to Hunt.