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Mega Edition: How Alex Murdaugh's Own Words Helped Sink Him (9/30/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Alex
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh's defense team rested their case today, but before they
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: rested their case, they had a few more witnesses to
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: bring up onto the stand. And one of those witnesses
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: was an expert who tried to cast some reasonable doubt
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: about what happened on that night. Now, of course, the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: prosecution is saying that Alec Murdaugh is the man who
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: killed his wife and his son in cold blood in
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: those kennels over all of the other issues that.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Were weighing him down.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: We're talking about financial issues, including being outed by his
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: partners and the law firm for embezzling money from the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: law firm itself and stealing from clients. So this man
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: was facing a whole host of issues. And according to
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: the government, everything came to a head that night in
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the kennels. And Alec Murdaugh killed his wife and his son. Well,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the defense, they're saying that that's not the case. And
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: that according to the crime scene recreation that their expert
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: put together, there's no way that one person could be
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: responsible for shooting both Paul and Maggie. So in this episode,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: we're going to check out an article from Law and Crime,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and we're going to see what they have to say
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: about this witness that the defense brought forward. Headline, defense's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: witness in Alec Murdoch case tries to sow reasonable doubt
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: with two-shooter theory. This article was authored by Colin Kambacher.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: An expert witness called by the defense delivered testimony that
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: at least one legal commentator believed may sow reasonable doubt
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: in jurors' minds during often-graphic testimony during the Alec Murdaugh
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: double murder trial in South Carolina on Monday afternoon. And
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: it was pretty graphic testimony. And unfortunately, there's really no
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: way around that in a case like this. We have
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a situation here where a man is accused of brutally
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: murdering his wife and son to the point where his
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: son's brain was blown right out of his brain bucket
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: all over the floor. So there's going to be graphic
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: testimony without a doubt. Connecticut-based forensic scientist Timothy Pomback testified
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: that a lot of blood and brain matter would have
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: covered the person who shot and killed Maggie and Paul
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh on the night of the murders. Mr. Palmback, do
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you have an opinion based upon the, more probably than not,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: whether there was one or two shooters who murdered Maggie
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and Paul on the night of June 7th? Defense Attorney
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Jim Griffin asked the witness. My opinion is that the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: totality of the evidence is more suggestive of a two-shooter scenario,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Palmback testified. I mean, obviously, Mr. Pomback knows much more
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: than me when it comes to recreating a crime scene,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: but his testimony, it didn't sway me to think that
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: this two-shooter theory was something that was valid and something
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: that was more likely than not. The defense attorney then
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: asked the expert witness to explain. In Paul's scenario, we
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: know where the shooter of the shotgun had to be,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Pomback said, and that would have been oriented... really directly
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: over Paul's head. And we also got a chance to
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: see that was the effect of this dynamic explosion and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the contact. And you can see outside and even in
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: throughout the feet area, multiple and many large.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Pieces of skull.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: We also saw large amounts of tissue that were projected
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: all the way up onto the ceiling and the door.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: You see hair all the way up the door. And
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of course, you see blood literally everywhere within there. Look,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: that is a valid point. If there is all of
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: this blood and it's this gruesome, and if Alec Murdoch
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: is guilty, then shouldn't he have all of that spatter
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and blood all over him? Well, he had time to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: go clean up, right? Didn't we hear that earlier? So
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: as a juror, I would think that you're going to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: take that into account. Sure, there was no spatter on
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: him or blood, but how long did he have to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: go and change? How long did he have to go
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: and clean up? Some of the pellets... are on that
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: same pathway, Pombok said, and they had enough inertia to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: either and or dent the door and put themselves up
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and stick into the casing. All of that activity was
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: in direct alignment with the shooter. And so I think minimally, minimally,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: that shooter is getting covered with this material, getting more
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: or less the shockwave of that effect and more than
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: likely getting hit with at least that could have done
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: injury a bone fragment or a pellet. So basically saying
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: that because of the violence of the shot, not only
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: would there be bone fragments that shatter back and hit
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch possibly, but the pellets, they could easily ricochet,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: bounce off, come back and hit the shooter. And we
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: certainly didn't get any reports like that when it comes
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to Alec Murdoch as far as him being injured via shrapnel,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: if you will. The forensic scientist then made his point clear. Therefore,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I think that particular shooter, for a brief period of time,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: is kind of out of this, Pombach said. It's not
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: as if they can instantaneously suffer that, drop the shotgun,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: run to where the AR blackout rifle is, pick that up,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and then in any kind of reasonable time period, engage
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: in a meaningful assault, an effective assault, able to shoot straight,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and make hits. calling that theory one of the major
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: indicators of concern, the witness went on to say that
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: he was also concerned about the close quarters of the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: area where both victims were shot and killed. And remember
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: previously when it was the prosecution making their arguments and
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I told you that it was going to end up
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: being a battle of the experts? That's exactly what's going
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to happen. It's going to come down to who the
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: jury believes makes a more compelling case as far as
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: these experts go. Now, the lawyers can lead these experts
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: during questioning, but it's really going to come down to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: the knowledge and the know-how of these experts and how
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: well they can convince the jury that they know more
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: than their counterpart. I believe he was shot first, Palmbach said,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: referring to Paul Murdaugh. I believe he had no idea
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: it was coming, and he took the shot to the chest,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and very soon thereafter, the one in the back of
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: his head. Anybody in the proximity to that, if Maggie
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: had been anywhere in that area, walking around down there,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: she would have heard that, and her response would have
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: been in the direction of the shooter, or the activity,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: or a run, or how about maybe they recognized who
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the killer was, and they were just in shock. Maggie
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: sees what happens as far as Alec killing Paul, And
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: then she's in shock and she can't run. So I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: don't know how much help that bit of testimony was
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: from the witness for the defense.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I would flip that right.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Around during cross. And I would say so that also
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: would mean that Maggie and Paul more than likely might
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: have known who their killer was because he was able
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to get the jump on him. Right. And again, the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: expert witness argued the temporal location of those two shootings
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: didn't add up to one shooter. So it's basically like
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the OJ defense here, right? An unknown murderer crept in
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: and just happened to kill Nicole Simpson. I mean, it's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the same kind of thing that they're arguing here. And look,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: as the defense team, that's what you should be doing.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: You have to try and sow that reasonable doubt in
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the mind of the jurors. And the jurors are going
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: to want to know, well, if it's not your client
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: who killed these people, who did it? There has to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: be somebody else. There has to be some kind of evidence,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: because if not, the evidence that's been compiled against Alec
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh is strong as hell. The individual who shot first
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: with a shotgun minimally was stunned, probably blood material in
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: his eyes and maybe dead. have been injured and would
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: have taken some degree of time to recover, Pombok testified.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Why would you bring, why would one shooter bring two
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: long rifles, two long weapons to the event? You can't
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: handle and shoot two of them. No, but you could
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: stage them previously, right? You can put one in an
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: area where you want to conduct your killing and then
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: one in another area where you're going to move and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: fire from there as well. I thought Alec was this
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: really smart attorney. So you're telling me he can't come
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: up with a plan to stage the crime scene? Stop
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: it right now. Now, I'm not saying that's what happened.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: But as much as this expert is trying to make
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the argument of why somebody would bring two long guns, well,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: so you would make this argument for them come trial time.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Criminal defense attorney and legal analyst Sarah Azari held the
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: testimony as having changed the trajectory of this case and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: said the allegations against the defendant were now soaked in doubt.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, I guess.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you agree with this expert and not
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: the other experts that we have heard, you see, that's
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: what it comes down to, right?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: A battle of the experts.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: And you're going to have lawyers out there who agree
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: with what this expert has to say and see it
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: his way. And then there's others who are going to
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: analyze it from a completely different perspective. But really, at
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know what matters? What
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: those 12 jurors think. Additionally, it would have been difficult,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: but not impossible, for one person to carry both guns
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: at the same time. Pombach told the jury, It tips
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: in favor of the probability of having two shooters, the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: witness said, unless, of course, like I said previously, the
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: guns were staged. Did he bring them previously and have
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: them ready to go so he could move spots so
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that when the time came, if the time came that
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: he was accused of these murders, he could come up
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: with this whole two shooter theory and try and sow
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that reasonable doubt. Again, remember, they're the ones who told
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: us how smart he was and how great of a
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: lawyer he is. If that's the case, and he's so smart,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and he's such a knowledgeable lawyer, I don't think we
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: can discount the fact that maybe those guns were staged.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: And if I was the one doing the cross-examination, you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: better believe I'd ask that question. We also had testimony
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: from Alec Murdaugh's brother, John Marvin Murdaugh, and instead of
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: combining it all into one episode, I'm going to have
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: another episode on its way that deals with the testimony
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: of Alec Murdaugh's brother. All right, folks, that's going to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: do it for this one. All of the information that
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: goes with the episode can be found in the description box.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. The
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch trial is coming to its conclusion, and to
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: say that it has been explosive would be an understatement.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: But now that we're getting down to the nitty gritty,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: The thing that stands out to me the most is
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that Alec Murdaugh admitted that he was a liar in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: open court. And once somebody does that on the witness stand,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's very difficult for the jurors to look
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: at him as anything else but a liar. I mean,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: you have this guy admitting in his own words that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: he lied to the police the night of these murders
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: and continued on with that life until video evidence was
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: provided in the courtroom and in front of jurors. So
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: if that video evidence was never provided, we all know
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that Alec Murdoch wouldn't have got up on that stand
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: and admitted any of that. His whole entire story was
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: blown out of the water because of that video. And
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: for me, if you're lying about the very basics of something,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I am certainly going to assume that you're lying about
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: everything else. So I'm sure that there are at least
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: some members of the jury that feel the exact same way. Now,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know which way the verdict's going to go,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: but in my opinion, Alec Murdaugh is certainly guilty of
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: these crimes. Today's article is from CNN. Headline, Alec Murdaugh's
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: lie about his whereabouts and his reversal weigh heavily as
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: murder trial finishes, legal experts say. This article was authored
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: by Elizabeth Wolfe. With Alec Murdaugh's murder trial nearing its end,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: legal experts who have participated in some of America's most
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: high-profile cases joined CNN Wednesday night to examine key questions
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that have loomed over the proceeding, including whether Murdaugh's admission
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of lying to investigators could help or hurt his case. Murdaugh,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: a once-prominent attorney in South Carolina's Lowcountry, is accused of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: fatally shooting his wife Margaret Maggie Murdaugh and son Paul
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh on the family's expansive hunting estate on June 7th
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: of 2021. After hearing weeks of witness testimony, jurors will
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: continue hearing closing arguments Thursday before they deliberate over whether
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh is guilty of two counts of murder and two
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: weapons charges, to which he has pleaded not guilty. It
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: comes down to two things that every single prosecutor has
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to contend with. I'm talking motive and opportunity. said CNN
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: senior legal analyst Laura Coates, who anchored the televised panel discussion.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Here are the key takeaways from the legal experts discussion
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: of the case. Well, in my opinion, he certainly had motive.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: We had the whole situation break off with his son,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the boat accident that really spiraled things out of control.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: And from there, people started taking a look at the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: financials And it was all bad for Alec Murdoch once
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that started happening. Bro was involved in all kinds of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: financial malfeasance. Embezzlement, stealing from clients. I'm sure there's more
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: that they missed too. Murdoch's lie to investigators could undermine
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: his credibility with jurors. I know if I was a juror,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: this would be a huge problem. And it would be
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: a gigantic roadblock for them to get over, meaning the defense. Now,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I know that the prosecution hasn't hit a grand slam here.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: The investigation was sloppy. Some of the testimony wasn't great.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: But Alec Murda is such a boob and his performance
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: on the stand was so bad, in my opinion, that
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as a juror, when you add all of that up,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: plus the fact that he was lying, then it would
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: be very difficult for the defense to convince me, even
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: within a reasonable doubt, that Alec Murda was innocent. In
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: his two-day testimony last week, Murdaugh admitted he lied to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: investigators when he told them he hadn't been to his
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: estate dog kennels on the evening of the killings until
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: he reported finding the bodies there. That admission came after
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: multiple witnesses for the prosecution identified his voice in a
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: video taken on Paul's phone at or near the kennels
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: at 8.44 p.m. Shortly before, prosecutors contend, the killings happened,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and that video is what sunk him. He would have
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: went on with that alibi until the Saint-Gennard Festival. This
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: guy wasn't going to admit anything. He lied from the beginning.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: He lied to his family. In fact, he's been lying
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: for all of these years that he was a drug addict.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So he was well-versed with lying. He was very comfortable
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: with it. And that's exactly what he did, according to
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the prosecution. Murdaugh testified that he lied because of paranoid
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: thinking stemming from his opioid addiction. During Wednesday's panel discussion,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Attorney Glenda Hatchett said that his admission might have come
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: too late. I think the fact that he waited until
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: there was testimony in the courtroom from multiple people and
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: then said, oh, yeah, I was there and I was paranoid.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Really, I think it creates.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: A credibility gap, said Hatchett, who represented the family of
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Philando Castile, a black man fatally shot by police in 2016.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: And that's the rub for me, too. The fact that
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: he waited until until there was open testimony in court
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: that was challenging his assertion is just bananas. And I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: don't know how any juror could look at that and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: say to themselves that the testimony he gave after that
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: is credible. Once you have that credibility gap, I think
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that it can also taint your other testimony, whether you're
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: credible or not. Hatchett, also a former chief presiding juvenile
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: court judge in Georgia's Fulton County, said, Prosecutors have tried
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: to paint Murdoch as a dishonest and disgraced attorney who
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: killed his wife and son to draw attention from investigations
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: into financial misconduct allegations against him. In his testimony, Murdoch
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: repeatedly denied carrying out the killings, but admitted to stealing
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: millions of dollars from his former clients and law firm.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Did you see the video of the one gentleman, the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: name is escaping me right now, that he stole money from?
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the guy that was a paraplegic and the whole nine?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: What sort of animal does that? And even if he
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: was found innocent of these murders, he's still an absolute
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: complete scumbag for stealing from his clients. You know, the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: people that can least afford to be stolen from? That's
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: who Alec Murdaugh was targeting. This kennel video is the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: most important piece of evidence. Prosecutors have tried to overcome
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a lack of direct evidence, such as eyewitnesses, linking Murdaugh
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to the killings. They have built their case in large
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: part using videos, photos, and cell phone and location data
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to try and convince the jury that Murdaugh is lying
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: about his actions that night. The prosecution, to get their conviction,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: has got to do away with, to exclude, every reasonable
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: hypothesis of innocence, said criminal defense lawyer Mark O'Mara, who
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: represented the man who fatally shot Trayvon Martin in 2012.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I think this kennel video is the most important piece
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: of evidence in this case for the prosecution because it
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: explodes the big lie, said Lonnie Coombs, a former Los
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Angeles County prosecutor. I'm talking about the big lie of
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: his alibi where he initially said, I was not there
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: at the crime scene. And for me, that's what it
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: always comes back to. And the fact that his defense
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: team put him on the stand knowing about all of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: these credibility issues shows you that they were really grasping
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: at straws here and they knew that they were up
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: against it. Murda maintains Maggie and Paul were alive when
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: he left the kennels to return to the house and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that he eventually drove to visit his mother in a
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: nearby town. He found the bodies near the kennels after returning,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: he said. Authorities say he called 911 after 10 p.m. Prosecutors, however,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: have argued he carried out the killings and then tried
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to create an alibi by leaving the property. They also
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: point to videos showing he changed clothes sometimes between when
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: he was with Paul that day and when he called 9-11.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Though the defenses suggested the change wasn't unusual for him.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: And the defenses contended that Paul Murdaugh was a heavy
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: sweater and down in the humidity of the South, he
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: was always changing his clothes. And honestly, I'd be changing
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: my clothes all the time if I lived down South too.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: I cannot stand the humidity, I hate to sweat, and
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I really hate when my clothes are stuck to me.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: The big question for jurors, Coates said, is did Murdaugh
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: have time to commit murder, get rid of the guns,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: clean himself up, leave and return in about an hour
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and 17 minutes? Or is there a reasonable doubt? And
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you can certainly make the case that there is some
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: reasonable doubt here. But for me, I keep going back
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to the fact that this man lied, and not only lied,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: but admitted to it in open court. Murdoch claims that
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: he was taking 2,000 milligrams of opioids a day is
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: medically possible. During his testimony last week, Murdoch said he
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: had a decades-long addiction to opiate painkillers and that it
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: contributed to paranoid thinking that led him to lie to investigators.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: He testified he took more than 2,000 milligrams a day
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of oxycodone in the months before Maggie and Paul's death.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: As my addiction evolved over time, I would get in
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: these situations or circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Murdoch said on the stand. On June the 7th, I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: wasn't thinking clearly. I don't think I was capable of reason.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And I lied about being down there. Oh, give me
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a break.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Such BS.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, I was on opioids, so I didn't know the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: difference if I was there or not, and I was paranoid,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: so I lied. I don't know who's buying that. Patients
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: typically start at about 10 to 20 milligrams a few
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: times a day, CNN chief medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta said
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Wednesday night. While 2,000 milligrams sounds astronomical in comparison, taking
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: that much daily is possible. Well, there's no doubt. I've
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: had friends who've had pill addictions, and they were taking
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: a insane amount of pills each day. But the problem is,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: they didn't have the money that Alec Murdoch has, so
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: eventually that pill addiction, well, you know the story, it
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: became a heroin addiction. People can gradually build up increasing
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: tolerance to these drugs, these opioids. This is not unheard of,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Gupta said. Over time, people can increasingly escalate the dose.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It is tough to know what the impact of opioid
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: addiction would have on a specific person's behavior, Gupta said. Murda,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: who says he is now drug free, testified he took
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the high doses in part to avoid the symptoms of withdrawal,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: which can include vomiting, dizziness, depression and confusion. People can
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: start to develop significant tolerance to the point where they're
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: no longer taking the medication to get high or to
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: develop euphoria, but rather just to feel normal and not
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: have withdrawal, Gupta said. And that's with all opiates, whether
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: they're street level or coming from the doctor. A lot
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of people think that if they get pills from the doctor,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: then they're safe. But the fact is, they are not.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: And whenever you're dealing with opioids, you need to be very,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: very careful with what you're doing. It's very easy to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: get a Jones. But do I think that affected Alec
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh and his thinking that night?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I do not.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: And do I think that his alibi is credible?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I do not.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: what I think. It matters what the jury thinks.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And soon.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: We should all know exactly how they feel. All right, folks,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the information that goes with the episode can be found
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome back
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: to the program. So the jurors in the Alec Murdoch
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: trial are going to get a chance to go to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: the property where the murders occurred to get a look
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: at the property for themselves. Now, I don't think that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the prosecution... is too happy about all of this. The
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: last thing they want is some more spice added to
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the pot. They would have been very content with leaving
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: things the way that they left them inside of the courtroom.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: But now, the jury's gonna get a chance to go
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: and check out the kennel and the property itself. And
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: this is just filled with all kinds of pitfalls. Especially
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: considering the circus-like atmosphere with all of the looky-loos hanging
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: around the property. Is Hart Putlian going to say that
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the jury was tainted if they see some people out
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: there protesting, holding signs.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I don't put it past Art Poulian, not for one
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: single second.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And if you're the defense, you know you got yourself
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: a victory here and you should be happy about it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So let's get to this article from Law and Crime
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and let's get caught up. Jurors deciding Alec Murdoch's fate
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: will take the jury view field trip to the hunting
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: lodge where his wife and son were murdered. This article
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: was authored by Colin Kambacher. Disgraced lawyer Alec Murdaugh's jury
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: will get to see the palatial hunting property where his
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: wife and youngest son were shot to death, the judge
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: overseeing his double murder trial ruled on Monday morning. We
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: believe it would be useful for the jury to see,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to visit Moselle, defense attorney Dick Hartputlian said during a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: brief scheduling conference before jurors were called into the courtroom.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: If the defense wants a jury view, then the court
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: will arrange a jury view, Judge Clifton Newman ruled. The
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: defense attorney requested the field trip to encompass both the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: area near the dog kennels where the murders occurred, as
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: well as the house itself. The storied 1,770-acre hunting lodge
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: is known by locals and by the Murdoch clan as Moselle.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Due to its location at 4147 Moselle Road, in Colleton County,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: South Carolina. To get some understanding of spatial relationships, Hartputlian said,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the defense went on to say the excursion would likely
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: take roughly three hours in total, including travel there and back.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: The request for a jury view is perhaps rare, but
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: not unheard of. And that's certainly the truth. We've definitely
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: seen this sort of thing before, but it's not something
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: that happens all the time. And it's certainly not something
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that you would call commonplace. And if you're the prosecution,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: whenever you hear about one of these jury viewings, that
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: has to rankle you a little bit. The last thing
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: you need is other factors besides what you were talking
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: about in the courtroom to play a part here. And
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: as far as the jury goes and what they're going
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: to see, we have to keep in mind that the
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: property has changed over time. These murders happened how long ago?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So you're going to have trees that have grown higher.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You're going to have different brush that's grown, all sorts
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of things. So it's not going to be in the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: exact condition as when these murders occurred. So they have
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to make that very clear to the jury as well.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: But I don't know how you can look at this
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: as anything but a victory, at least in putting it
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: in motion for the defense. Similar jury view requests have
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: been granted in other high profile cases, such as the
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: burning death of Jessica Chambers, for which Quentin Tellis was acquitted,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the Pike County massacre, for which George Wagner IV was
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: convicted on eight counts of murder, and the cascade of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: police gunfire during the no-knock raid that left Breonna Taylor
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: dead in her Louisville apartment, for which Brett Hankinson was acquitted.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: What we would ask is that you ask the jury
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: if they want to do that, Alec Murdoch's defense attorney continued.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: If they don't want to do it, I don't want
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: them to do it. If they want to do it,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: that would be fine with me, and it needs to
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: be done in.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: An expeditious way. Is this guy for real?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, all kidding aside, has anyone looked at
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Hart Boolean and his performance here and said to themselves,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: if I'm ever in trouble, that's the guy I'm looking
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: to go and hire? Because when I look at Hart
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Boolean here, he certainly comes off to me as a
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: big old dum-dum. And I certainly wouldn't want my fate
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: in his hands. I mean, I'm surprised that this dude
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: shows up wearing a suit to court. Seems like the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: type that would show up in a pair of overalls
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: with a straw hat chewing on a piece of straw.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Harpoolian went on to say that the defense would not
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: accompany jurors to the property, that no one would be
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: there to answer questions, and that the defense just wanted
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the jury to see things. He said the logistics were
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: up to the court, maybe allowing jurors to vote on it.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Lead prosecutor Creighton Waters said, was skeptical of the request
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and said he thought it would require additional testimony because
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: he said the scene is different than it existed on
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the night of June 7th of 2021. The major change,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the prosecutor said, was that the trees in between the
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: kennels and the house are now markedly taller and thicker
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: than they were when Maggie and Paul Murdaugh were killed.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And I think he makes a good, fair, valid point here.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Do I think that's enough to make it so the
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: jurors shouldn't be able to go on this trip? No,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I think that the jurors should have all of the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: information available to them.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: And if that means they have to.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Go to this property to get a better idea of
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: what's going on, well, get your brown bag lunch and
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: get ready to rock. Waters ultimately objected to the request.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't shock me. Like I said a second ago,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: there's no prosecution team in the whole world that wants
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: this to happen. You don't want any field trips outside
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of the courtroom. You want to make sure that that's
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: an environment that you're basically in control of the narrative, right?
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: By bringing out witnesses with strong testimony. But the second
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you throw a factor in like this, you know, all
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: bets are off. Who knows what the jury is going
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: to think after taking a look at this site? You
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: just can't really appreciate the spatial issues without actually seeing them,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Hart Pootley encountered. The defense attorney conceded the trees had
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: changed and offered to limit the visit to just the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: kennel area. He said that numerous points of evidence and
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: testimony that have come up in the trial, including the
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: location of the quail pens, the relative location of the doghouse,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: how small the feed room is, and the distance between
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul Murdaugh's bodies were found would be illuminated
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: by the visit. And I don't really disagree, honestly. In
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: a case like this, where a man is accused of
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: such heinous crimes, I think that you should explore every
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: possibility to make sure as a juror and as the
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: court that you have all of the information that you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: need to come to the proper decision. And if I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was on this jury, I would certainly want to go
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: and check out this scene for myself. I think you
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: can put restrictions on it, that would assist the jury,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Hart-Pootlian insisted, recalling a trial in the 1980s where the
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: jury was asked to vote on taking such a trip,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: if they wanted. Waters went on to clarify that he
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: was mainly objecting to the notion of offering jurors the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: say on the jury view question, saying that such trips
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: are usually based on the request of a party. Hart-Pootlian
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: then raised his hand to clarify that the defense was
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: in fact requesting a jury view. Judge Newman okayed the request.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Upon request of either side, the court will allow a
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: jury view, the judge said. I will not ask the
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: jury to decide whether or not they want a view.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I think that could invite premature deliberations in the case.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: So basically, he doesn't want to put it to the
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: jury yet. That way they can avoid early deliberations in
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: the juror's room. So the court will make the decision,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: and that decision is to do the jury view. Newman
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: said the court would accompany jurors, that the lawyers for
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: both sides would be allowed to go, and that he
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: would advise jurors that certain things may not be the
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: same as they were two years ago. And that's all
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: fine and well, but when the jury goes and takes
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: a look at this, are they going to keep that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: in mind when they're taking a look at the crime scene?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And that is just one of the many pitfalls now
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: for the prosecution that this has been okayed. Harpootlian asked
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that security protocols be established because the property has become
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: a site popular with true crime tourists who have recently
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: flocked to the crime scene and that a carnival attitude
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: has sprung up there, which he did not want jurors
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: influenced by. Or if I'm being the cynic, I could
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: say that Harpootlian and the defense, that's exactly what they want,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to claim after the fact that the jurors were influenced
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: by the circus-like atmosphere. You know, the atmosphere that Harpootlian wanted.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: So that's certainly something that has to be kept in mind.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: And remember, there's going to be an appeal process after
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: all of this. And a lot of times when that
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: appeal process begins, it's no longer about guilt or innocence.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: It's about technicalities and loopholes. There were literally dozens of
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: people at Moselle last weekend trespassing to get selfies in
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: front of the feed room. The defense attorney said the
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: most distasteful kind of things I've ever seen. Newman said
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: law enforcement would provide security for the trip. So this
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: is an interesting development for sure, and certainly a shot
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in the arm for Alec Murdaugh and the defense. As
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: far as the prosecution goes, well, now they have another
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: minefield that they have to navigate through, and hopefully they
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: don't step on any of these mines. You know that
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Hartputlian and company, they're going to try and reach for
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: whatever's out there. And if that happens to be something
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that pops up from this trip, don't think that they'll
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: shy away from trying to manipulate that into a lever
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: for them to pull on.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And when you're dealing with a.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Guy like Harapulian, you know that no stone is going
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: to be left unturned. All right, folks, that's going to
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: do it for this one. All of the information that
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: goes with the episode can be found in the description box.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Like
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: most of you out there, I've been watching the Alec
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Murdoch trial, and it's been absolutely bananas. And I can't
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: believe that there's legal experts out here who think this
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: guy's doing a good job. Now, don't get it twisted.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: The prosecution is not hitting a home run. They're not
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: coming out here and cleaning up or anything like that.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But even with their bumbling and their stumbling... I don't
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: know how anyone could look at Alec Murdoch and say
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: this is an innocent man. The fact that he lied
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: about being in those kennels, that right there is enough
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: for me almost to convict you, bro. What else are
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you lying to me about? Why are you not being
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: truthful about the very basics of what's going on? What
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: are you hiding? Why are you hiding it? See, these
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: are the questions I'd have as a juror. And I'll
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: tell you, none of those questions... have been satisfied with
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: decent answers. So today we have an article from CNN,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and this article is talking about what the legal experts
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: are saying could help or hinder Alex Murdaugh from his testimony.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So let's get to it.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Headline, here's what legal experts say could help or hurt
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdaugh from his testimony. This article was authored by
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Christina Maxoris. After hearing from dozens of witnesses in the
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: high-profile murder trial of Alec Murdaugh, a South Carolina jury
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: last week, heard from the man himself after he took
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the stand, a move legal experts say was risky but
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: could have helped his case. Again, I don't see it.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: This guy got up there, he was bumbling around, admitted
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: to lying on the stand, admitting to having a 2,000
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: milligram a day, OxyContin Jones?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, for real?
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know who this guy is helping up on
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: the stand, but it certainly didn't seem to me like
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: he was helping himself. In dramatic testimony, which included heated
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: exchanges between Murdaugh and the prosecutor who cross-examined him, Murdaugh
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: admitted to lying repeatedly, including to law enforcement, about his
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: whereabouts on the night of the killings, and to stealing
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: millions of dollars from his law firm's client's settlement's over
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the course of roughly two decades. But, he testified, murder
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: is not on his list of wrongdoings. Now imagine, this
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: guy was stealing all this money for all these years.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew what he was up to, knew he was
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: on drugs, all of it. Didn't spend one single day
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: in jail. Now, think about what happened to Kalief Browder.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Or think about what happened to, insert countless Americans here,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: who never have even a smidgen of the help through
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the legal process that someone like Alec Murdaugh is afforded.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And when I talk about the two-tier justice system, that's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about. Murdaugh has pleaded not guilty
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to the June 7, 2021 killing of his wife Maggie
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and son Paul, who were fatally shot on the family's Islington,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: South Carolina property. Prosecutors accuse Murdaugh of killing the two
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to try to and prevent his alleged financial crimes from
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: being uncovered. The defense has portrayed Murdaugh as a loving
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: father and husband being wrongly accused while the real killer
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: is on the loose. It's always the real killer, right?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the alleged killer, the boogeyman, the chupacabra-riding Bigfoot who came
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: in and murdered everybody, then was picked up by aliens
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: over at the Nazca lines. I'm not buying it. I
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: need real tangible evidence, real proof of what you were
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: doing that night and why you lied about being in
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: the kennel. All the other shit is BS to me.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Having Murdaugh testify was a bold move and likely a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: calculated risk by the defense, legal experts told CNN. Remember
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: in the movie Dodgeball? That's a bold move, Cotton. That's
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: basically how I feel seeing this dude take the stand.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. When I heard this guy was
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: taking the stand, I literally laughed out loud. This guy's
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: a knucklehead, a boob, and a moron, and you're going
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to put him on the stand? While many attorneys don't
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: like to put their clients on the stand because it's
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: hard to predict what questions prosecutors will ask and how
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: the jury will perceive the accused, Murdaugh was the prime
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: defendant for the job, experts said. Well, I don't think
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: he did a good job. I don't know what the
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: experts were watching, but I thought his testimony was junk.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I thought it was garbage, and it looked like performance
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: to me. I get it, you were a thespian in
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: high school, bro, we get it. But your performance right here?
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Not even good enough for that, in my opinion. If
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you're going to have somebody testify, having a lawyer who's smart...
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: who's been in the courtroom, who's lied for 20 years.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: That's the guy you want on the stand. Criminal defense
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: attorney and former prosecutor Mark Eiglarsch said, and all it
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: takes is one juror to connect with him emotionally. Well,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I'm with you with everything except the part about having
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: a smart man on the stand, because in my opinion,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: that certainly isn't Alec Murdoch. From everything I've seen about
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: this guy, an absolute moron. And I have to tell you,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: how good of a lawyer could he be if he's
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: sucking down OxyContin At 2,000 milligrams a day. One thing
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: I will agree on, though, is that old boy is
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: certainly a liar. Here's what else legal experts thought of
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Murdaugh's testimony. What may have motivated his testimony? While defendants
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: can often find themselves at a disadvantage when taking the stand,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: in this case, several attorneys told CNN... Murdaugh practically had
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: no choice but to testify. That's because the prosecution pointed
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: to a huge question throughout the trial that he had
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to answer. Multiple witnesses identified Murdaugh's voice in a video
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: clip filmed at the family dog kennels, which authorities say
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: was recorded shortly before the killings and near where the
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: bodies were found. For me, that's huge, folks. That's a
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: big deal. And people can downplay that all they want.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm looking at it From a juror's perspective, right?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: If I'm sitting in that juror's box and we're getting
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: all of this information and I find out you lied
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: about this, I'm going to have a real tough time
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: believing anything else you have to say. Even your little
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: performance when you're on the stand. Throughout the course of
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the investigation, Murdaugh lied to authorities and maintained that he
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: was not at the kennels at the time. But he
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: changed the story on the stand last week, acknowledged his
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: voice is heard in the clip, and admitted to jurors
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that he lied about his whereabouts on the night of
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: the killings. But Murdaugh remained emphatic in his denial that
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: he shot his wife and son. So let's see, a
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: guy with financial issues with his wife, check. A guy
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: whose son has caused him great grief, check. The last
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: person to see those two people, check. But he had
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, folks. Oh, did I tell
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: you that he lied about being at the murder scene?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but he's an innocent guy, and his testimony
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: On the stand, that's enough to swing me, said nobody ever.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I honestly find it laughable that anybody believed what this
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: guy had to say on the stand. Murdaugh told the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: court he lied about being at the kennels because of
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: paranoid thinking stemming from his years-long drug addiction to opioid painkillers,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: as well as his distrust of investigators. Oh, give me
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: a break, bro. You're the most privileged guy in the
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: whole state. You and your family have been getting away
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: with literally murder for years. All the investigators were on
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the dime reporting to you and your family members. So
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: what are you even talking about? Murdaugh testified was triggered
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: when detectives began to ask him about his relationship with
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: his wife and son. It's the million dollar question that
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: everybody wanted to know. Why did you lie that you
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: were not at the kennels? So we had to give
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: an explanation as to that. Criminal defense attorney and former
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: prosecutor Bernarda Villalona said, that's what I think is the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: main reason why the criminal defense attorney in this case
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: made a calculated decision to put him on the stand.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: The question is, was it worth it?
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, if he didn't go on
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: the stand, I don't think he'd have a chance that
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: way either. Basically, what I'm trying to tell you here is,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, this dude is cooked. Two double-edged swords.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: There are two key issues in Murdaugh's testimony that could backfire,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: experts suggested. Putting it all on the line and coming clean,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: as Murdaugh appeared to do during the trial by sharing
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: details about his drug addiction and admitting to a slew
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: of financial crimes, may have been an attempt by his defense...
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: to garner sympathy from jurors.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Legal experts said, very possible, very, very possible.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: And remember, as adamant as I am that I wouldn't
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: believe him, all it takes is one juror to believe
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the bullshit he's pumping, and we have ourselves a mistrial
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and big problems. They're trying to use it for a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: very positive effect, to show that he had a problem
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: with addiction, he is sympathetic for trying to wrestle with it,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: and that that may have made him paranoid and caused
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: him to distrust the police. And telling them this lie
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: about not being there, defense attorney Shan Wu said, look,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I don't care if I
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: have 500 pills in my pocket. If my wife and
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: son were murdered, the last thing I'd be worried about
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: is getting nailed for possession.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: But if he was addled by the addiction... He.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Might have been acting very irrationally at the time, and
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: the jury might believe that this very opioid-addicted person went
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: off into this paranoid frenzy and did slaughter his own family,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Wu noted. So it's a double-edged sword. Look, there's no
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: doubt that the jury is mulling all of that. And
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: this grand strategy that Hart Putlian and the boys have
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: come up with very well could backfire. There's another big
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: reason admitting to the lies could backfire, attorneys said. It
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: underscores Murdaugh is not credible. And that for me is
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: the number one factor. He is not a credible man.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So if you're not credible, why should I listen to
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: anything you have to say? All of a sudden, you
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: put your hand over a Bible and you're sitting in
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the witness box and now you're a truthful person all
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: of a sudden? Sorry, I don't buy that shit. When
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: questioning him, Prosecutor Creighton Waters noted Murdaugh, for years, looked
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: his clients in the eye and lied about their settlements
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: while taking the money for himself. just like he lied
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: for two months to investigators, family, and friends about what
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: he did the night of the killings. Waters also noted
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: the discrepancies in Murdoch's new timeline of events. What they're doing,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: the prosecutors, is saying he's a liar, he's a cheat,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: he can't be trusted, and you should not take whatever
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: he says at face value, criminal defense attorney and CNN
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: legal analyst Joey Jackson said, and that's how I see
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: it as well.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Remember, I'm not a legal analyst.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just some jerk-off with a podcast, but it seems
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: to me that that is exactly what the prosecution's trying
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: to do here, and it's a smart strategy. You have
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: yourselves a liar on the stand, expose him for what
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: he is. What could help Murdaugh? I don't know, maybe
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: intervention from baby Jesus? In many ways, Murdaugh was a
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: model witness, experts said. He looked straight at jurors when
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: he spoke, and grew visibly emotional talking about his slain
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: wife and son, Often referring to them by endearing nicknames,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: he called his son Paul Paul during testimony and often
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: referred to his wife as Mags. That's one of the
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: biggest sticking points for the prosecution in this trial. It's
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: would he really do this, said Jessica Roth, a law
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: professor at the Cardozo School of Law. Despite all the
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: other crimes he's admitted to, would he actually kill his
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: wife and son? Well, somebody did. Somebody killed them. It
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: didn't just magically happen, right? He was there, he lied,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: he had access to those guns, so who else did it?
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Why are you trying to get yourself killed afterwards, by
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the way? Oh, I wanted to give my son some
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: insurance money, or is it you felt guilty? Murdaugh also
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: offered jurors alternatives as to who may have committed the crime. Therefore,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: helping sow reasonable doubt, Jackson said, Murdaugh talked about his addiction,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: hinting at unsavory people he may have been coming into
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: contact with for drugs who may have harmed his family,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: and also nodded at threats that Paul allegedly received after
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: his involvement in a 2019 boating accident in which a
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: young woman was killed.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I get it. I get it.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Frank Castle, the Punisher, came down here to Carolina and
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: exacted revenge over a boating accident. Does that seem likely
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: to anybody else out there? Or on the flip side,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: a guy that had massive debt was about to be
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: exposed and was mad at his wife and son at
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the time, according to reports, killed them. You tell me
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: which one is more likely. The defense in doing that
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: presents reasonable doubt, Jackson added. Well, they can present whatever
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: they want. The question is, is the jury going to
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: buy it? Finally, Murdaugh was able to use his decades
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: of experience as an attorney to control the narrative when
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: he was questioned by prosecutors, experts said. During those lines
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: of questioning, prosecutors ideally want to elicit only a yes
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: or no response from a defendant to try to drive
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: their point home, legal experts said. But Murdaugh continuously gave
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: long explanations when responding. In that way, experts noted, he
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: potentially was able to humanize himself more and look more
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: sympathetic to the jurors or look like a rambling moron.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I'll let you decide. I think it actually went very
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: well for the defendant and rather poorly for the prosecutor,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Wu said. Murdaugh was a tough witness. I mean, he's
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: a skilled lawyer himself. He really changed the whole tempo
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: of this from a cross-examination, where the person doing the
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: cross should be controlling him, into one where he was
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: able to control the pace. He's still a liar, though. See,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I can't get over that. You can be as good
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: as you want on the stand as far as your tactics,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: as far as your performance. But why did you lie
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: about all of this as a juror with no other
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: reasonable alternatives for me? I have to keep coming back
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: to that. What will be key in the end, several
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: attorneys said, is whether Murdaugh's long-winded answers were able to
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: convince at least one person on the jury panel, which
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: could save him from conviction on the charges and potentially
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: spending the rest of his life behind bars. You never
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: know what the jury, Wu said. It only takes one.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Court is expected to resume Monday morning. So what do
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: you folks think about his testimony? Do you think he
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: did a good job or not? Do you think he
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: floundered on the stand and gave the prosecution another leg up?
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Shoot me some emails and let me know. All right, folks,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. And all
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with the episode, well, that
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box.