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"They Can't Use Me as a Weapon": Bushra Shaikh | UK Column Interviews · UK Column Radio

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: So I feel really fortunate that I have an opportunity
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to talk to the most controversial journalist in Britain right now,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: bush Or Shaikh.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: It's great to sit down with you.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: We have been moving around Iran a little bit the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: last week, and you know, I want to talk about
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: maybe if we have time, your experience of this incredible event,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the funeral of the Supreme Leader, Ayatola said Ali Jamena.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Definitely want to get your reflections on that. But also
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: there's been this incredible reaction to you being here just
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: yourself as a journalist. I don't want to use the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: term influencer. Yeah, but because I know you are, well
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: you can tell us about some of the programs that
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you've done in the UK. And but yeah, you've really
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: attracted the eye.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Of Sauron Is.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: I certainly have. Well, it's absolutely intense.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, Patrick, you know, it's not my first time
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: here in Iran, and I just believe like that, you know,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: as reporters, it should we should have the freedom to
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: move around the world and just kind of report.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: On what we're doing.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: And it just it just happens to be that my
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: being in Iran has bothered so many people and I mean,
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: I'll call it a witch hunt, and you know, part
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: of it is is completely stemming from this kind of.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Right wing far right.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: Actually, I would probably say influence that we've got here
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: there in the UK, and I don't know, I don't
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: really know how to describe it. I mean, part of
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: me knew that, you know, the West Cities Iran as
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: this hostile nation and you know we're not particularly the Allies,
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: and I knew that before I came. But to just
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: the response I've had, I've been attacked by Iron International,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: by the Telegraph, by the Daily Mail. You know, certain
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: large account influences are completely bothered by me being here, and.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: You know, even calls for my labeling of me as
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: a terrorist.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: I'm now framed as some kind of Islamis regime Muller
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: supporting individual and these really polarized, toxic labels are just
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: being assigned to my name throughout not only in the media,
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: but on this online space, which has been astonishingly insane.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: I would probably say.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: You're no stranger to controversy in terms of your commentary
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: on Islam in the British context or the European context. Yes, right,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: And that issue about let's just the veil. Let's just
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: lay a few.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Things to rest.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, When I say I've vented to Iran and there's
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: many women who are uncovered, I've been called a regime
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: propagandist or I'm just making it up.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: So let's hear a.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Woman's perspective of what the true state of this issue is,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: because I know the West seem obsessed.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Is the end or be or isn't.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: It whether women have their hair covered or not determines
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: whether a country deserves to exist in this context? But
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: what is the true situation for a British audience?
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: Okay, I think this is it's very important to have
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: this conversation because, as you say, the West has been
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: completely obsessed with the women's hitr by Muslim woman's head
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: covering and the way she's stressed and in Iran is
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: particularly heightened at this moment, as we know, because it's
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: so tool that's often used to weaponize, you know, women,
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: and it stems from this idea of kind of liberal feminism,
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: I would say, And I think they've also been the
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: kind of perpetrators of pushing this idea that somehow Muslim
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: women just don't want to be covered, and I will
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: accept that there is a portion in Iran and who
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: are inside of Iran, and many of them don't want
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: to cover. Now ten years down the line, I've seen
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: it for myself. There are thousands of Iranian women across
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: the nation, their country who do not wear the hijab,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: and from my experiences and not wearing one myself, we
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: have not been attacked by any kind of police officers,
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: any security personnel. Because this is an idea that I'm
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: a protected person here when I come, so I can
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: do it. I'm a privileged person, so I can do it.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: But that's simply not the case. Anyone can just Google,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: go to YouTube and see that. So no, but women
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: in Iran are proud of wearing the chardors, the chardor
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: which is the hijab, the traditional Islamic cultural dress, and
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: they are proud of that symbolic outfit that they wear.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: And this exists in this country. So it's not this
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: idea that Iranian women are oppressed because they are themselves.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Choosing to wear this.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, they may be a policy in their country which
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: is women's dress needs to be modest and they need
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: to wear hit.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Job, which I'm feeling a sense of kind of change.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: I'm seeing a little bit kind of lightness on there myself,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: even speaking to some ministers about it. But fundamentally, Patrick,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: they are smart, they are educated, they have agency, they
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: speak for themselves, they are confident women who are thriving
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: in Iran's institutions, in the science and the medical field,
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: in fashion, in all across the board. And for some
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: reason this is not this narrative does not get spoken
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: about in the West, and we have to address this
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: issue because there is one narrative that gets pushed out
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: in the West and that is oppression hijab and it
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: comes from which I've now seen. It is the exiled
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: slash diaspora community that move outside of Iran, and they
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: become this weapon of voice to amplify this idea, even
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: though that's not true.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: And just to be clear, we've seen a lot of
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: media organizations, a lot of media coverage. We've been also
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: interviewed a lot the top most popular and most recognizable
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: media figures in this country.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Many of them are in fact women. Yes, this is.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: True, Yes, very very very true.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: You will see that inside of Iran, that the media
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: establishment itself is thriving of women, women who are in
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: this industry, women who are writing articles, journalists, anchors, presenters
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: and across the border, and even some channels have you know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: a bit more flexibility about the way that the modesty
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: looks on camera.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Others might be a little bit stricter.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: But saying that, even then, you've got these women who
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: are not, like, you know, handcuffed to the kitchen sink.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: You know, they're not being forced by their husbands and
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: their fathers and their brothers that they're not able.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: This is a thriving city and that I want to
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: ask say, one.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: Thing the thing I love about this country is how
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: beautifully women are actually platformed. They are platformed, they are championed,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: they are revered, they are recognized as a very solid
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: pillar of this society. They're not sidelined. They're not treated
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: like a commodity. There is no beautification expectation of them.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: They are treated as the intelligent gender that we truly are.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And they're also a voice of geopolitical resistance against well
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: technically war here but with the US and Israel are
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: still at war with Iran. Yes, there's negotiations going on. Yeah,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: so it's pretty clear. I mean, you just go out
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: on the street. And you see the women are absolute
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: revolutionaries in this country. They're leading the charge that they're
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: in front. They're the loudest. It's men and women.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, the level of energy.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: What's been your oppression about this? This is a six day,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: seven day funeral procession starting in Tehran. It's moving. They
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: took the remains of the Supreme Leader to Nashef that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: right in Iraq, and then back to Iran. And we're
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: in Mashad, which is the home city of the Supreme Leader,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So this is where he will be. He will lay
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and rest and interned here according to his wishes.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Of course, this is his home city.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: So the event we're having tomorrow there will be millions
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: of people here. And we're just overlooking the Holy Shrine
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of Mashad here and you can see it's a.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Massive complex, prutty, amazing.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And this is going to be a sea of people
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: tomorrow from about five am. We know what that's like
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: from Tehran and komb and all the other cities around
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the country.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Millions and millions of people.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I think we had even the Financial Times admitted upwards
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of fifteen million in Tehran.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: That's right, they did. They said between thirteen to fifteen million.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: Possibly that's an underrest doimation because they won't know the
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: true figures until the entire six days is over, so
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: it's exhordinay.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So what's what's been your impression from this as a Westerner? Yes,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: as somebody from Britain.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, wow wow.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: The seas of people, you know, being here is one thing,
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: and trying to translate that into the audience, you know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: through the television screen is except very, very difficult to
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: do because you've really got to be here to feel
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: every single moment of it. Right, You've got all these
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: emotions happening through people. You've got this anger coming through,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: you've got this sadness coming through. You can't walk by
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: thousands of people around you without trying to look at
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: every single person and they're all feeling something different.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: But one thing is certainly clear for me here in
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Iran is that they.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Are absolutely furious with America, and that's the American government
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: with Donald Trump and Israelan and it's actually very refreshing
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: to be around and a group of people in a
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: funeral procession where their leader has been assassinated and for
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: some reason they're not allowed to be angry about that,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: right in the Western media. Of course, they're going to chant,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: and they're going to have flags, and they're going to rally,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: and they're going to do this because you know, fundamentally
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: the person that they looked up to, who they've revered.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: We've got generations of people right here.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: We've got the young people who said that I've grown
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: up with with, say that they're common in. But to
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: just see the millions of people who have galvanized and
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: come together for a funeral, I don't believe that I
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: will experience anything like this in my lifetime, honestly. And
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: it is a historical monumental moment for Iran because there
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: are a multitude of things happening at the same time
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: right now. But really it's such a remarkable thing to experience.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: And I don't know if you feel this.
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: Way, but myself, who are still kind of an elementary reporter,
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: I would say an elementary journalist is very new to
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: me that I've had the honor and the privilege to
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: actually report on something like this.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: And you've done some what we call mainstream media work
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: in the UK Channel four, and you've done some special
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: mini series is documentaries.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And so forth. So you have some experience with the
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: mainstream media.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are mainstream media here. Yeah, we haven't actually
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: run into them, but I've seen the reports and it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: How have you.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Had a chance to look at any, peruse even glad
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to any of the mainstream reporting, and if so, what's
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: your impression of how they're characterizing this week?
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, so the only mainstream really I've seen the Sky
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: News And obviously it's been incredibly busy for us here
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: because we're trying to capture as much as we can
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: for people that are going to.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Be watching us follow through who have not been able
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: to come to Iran. But it's interesting.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: How they depict this what's happening here. And I know
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: for mainstream they always have to be very careful about impartialities.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: It's weird obsession as well in the media about in
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: partiality when journalism is always truth. I think they've forgotten
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: that you tell the truth, and so there's terms like
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: allegedly or perhaps or estimated or you know.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: It may be you know. So it's really strange.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: It's like they're always covering their backs and everything that
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: they can see is right in front of them. They
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: are right here in the middle of it and the
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: thick of it. We are here at the same time
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: as them. Yet they're reporting is significantly slightly skewed and
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: I've absolutely seen that.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And so what kind of reports have you been doing?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I know you've been doing a lot of stand ups,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: just solos, and your main platform is Instagram.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Is that I'm kind of all No, my big sword
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: is on on X Actually.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, and you're also a magnet for controversy.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Next, Yes, you've you've been you've been attacked by I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: think Laura Lumer.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you're Randy.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Fine, Randy Fine, Nicholas Lives. To name a few, Alex
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Armstrong gb News, you name them the entire what do
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: you want to call them?
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: The kabbal or the kind of millions of the I
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: don't know what you want.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: To call them, but it's it's not it's conservative right,
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: but it's like a fringe part of the conservative right.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: We know this.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: They're a little group. Elon Musk is amplifying all of them.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: You know, they have the biggest platforms and they all
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: get together.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's jump on that.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Let's let's have a go at busher for being in Iran,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: and I know why that is.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm not I'm not a silly person.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Because they consider you a turncoa because you were a Conserva,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: you are a conservative something.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: You are on gb News for a long time, so
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: you work with these people.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, do they feel they've been betrayed by your newfound
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: political resolute stance on geopolitics?
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Possibly? I mean that obviously do all be me guessing
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: what's happening here? But yeah, I worked with GB News,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: I've done talk TV, I've been right wing, I've done
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: mainstream on you know it TV, and generally my voice
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: doesn't really fit into a box. And I think that's
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: a problem in the UK. You know, they kind of
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: box you into a category and then they get a
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: bit confused. Someone even called me a trojan horse because
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: they thought I was this like ex Muslim, ex Muslim,
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: if I'm Muslim, because I took my hijab off and
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: they were, oh, maybe we can use her. And maybe
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: because they realized that they can't use me as a weapon.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: The right wing can't use me as a ethnic looking
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: woman Muslim as a weapon, like okay, right, this might
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: be a problem. Now, I think there is an element
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: of that there, and I think it bothers them that
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: somebody who looks like me, who I don't usually wear
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: hijarb because I said I would wear this hijab as
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: a sign of respect to my Iranian sisters, because they
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: would be doing it for six days, that I would
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: support Islam, that I would support these.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Communities, I would support these countries.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: They thought I'd be like maybe some of the other
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: types of Muslims that I do exist in the UK
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: who don't do this.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: I think that's the case.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And so you know, just wait a few minutes left.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: What's your feeling about the situation right now? While we've
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: been here, the US has attacked I know you've got
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: to recently upload a video about this. So the US
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: has broken the MoU the cease fire.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So what do you think the Iranian You've.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Spoken to quite a few even some officials and people
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: in high levels of media and in politics, what is
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the Iranian attitude towards this MoU agreement, that the relationship
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: as a negotiating part with the United States. I know
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Israel's lingering in the background always as well. What's the
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: impression you're getting, like, where where are the Iranians on
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: this current situation.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: It's very clear.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, you speak to enough, you speak to enough Iranians,
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: and you realize very very quickly that they do not
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: trust the United States. They don't trust Donald Trump. No
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: do they trust Israel. And they have rightly so every
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: reason to not trust them. They are completely against the MoU.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: In fact, most Iranians would rather go to war in
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: a way. They're like, you know what, we're done with this.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: These negotiations need to be serious. They need to come
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: sincerely to the table and not all of to do
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: all this backtracking and some clowning around. Really that's what happens,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: and they're so fed up with it that even at
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: this point they're saying, scrap all of this stuff and
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: do what you need to get to the end of this,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: because what they don't want is this continuous back and
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: forth and this war lingering effort which.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Could potentially last for years.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: They don't want to be part inside of a country
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: where every five days a ceasefire is written up then
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: it's broken, that it's really up, because that means they're
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: going to be in constant in the state of war,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: which yes, they totally are not happy with that. We
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: can see that with the chance, we see this with
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: the chance every day is mad bag and big mad
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: bag is right, ill and rightly.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: So they have every reason to feel this way.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know you said something earlier about you know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: the people.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: It's understandable if someone kills your head of state and
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: that's very much loved by the country or most of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the country, I would say, for thirty seven years, and
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: then they're calling to avenge the death of their leader
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and they're getting their nose out of joining Washington over this. Yes,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: they think, oh, they want to kill us. All Iran
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: as it actually attacked us. The United States attacked retaliate
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: against bases here in the region.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But the characterization of.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: The Supreme Leader, I think it's a good place to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: end because we've all been asked us as foreigners, what
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: do you think of.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Of Iotola ali hamone? And so I'll spind this one
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: way and if you give us your final thoughts on this.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: He is absolutely characterized as a character of derision, the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: beard determined terrorist. Yes, am I right in saying that's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the West general Western impression.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's why we're referred to as more Lo lovers
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: because they're like terrorists.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Lovers Because now after a week here and seeing and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: hearing a lot, what's your impression of the Supreme leader, Well.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: The late martyr, say the Lehamony, who's been misrepresented for
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: since ever since he was a leader of the Iranian people.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: I was saying, dehumanized, demonized, characterize as an.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Evil regime.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Dictator who just you know, didn't care about his people.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: In fact, when you understand and realize his life, if
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: you just take a moment to really read about who
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: he was today, we happen to have the honor to
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: go and visit the home that he used to live in,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: and then you can see that he came from humble
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: beginnings and died with humbold beginnings and you know, you
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: will slippers that were broken.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: He was a man that was revered, full of wisdom character.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: He's greatly going to be missed by a large quantity
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: of the Iranian people. And if he wasn't this kind
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: hearted individual who just wanted justice and peace for people,
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: I believe me millions of people would not be coming
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: out to mourn him.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: There's another thing. This government, this society, they say we
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: want to help and come to the aid of oppressed people,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: not just in Palestine but globally.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: The West looks at that and they said, they can't
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: be serious. Nobody says that, nobody means that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Why is that?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Is that because we've become so cynical in the West
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: that we don't think such people exist.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: In the world, Or is this scene as a.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Threat because it's real, isn't it's it's practically written in
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: their constitution here.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you see, they say that if how Many
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: always taught things that generally were about humanity, and he
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: took all of his wisdom from scholars leaders from the
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Islamic world, right, And the problem that the West has
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: is actually Islam. So they weaponized Islam to justify their
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: wars making money. You know, it's a very very intricate
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: and complicated system in the West because we are all
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: they convince people to worship capitalism, right, it's what ends
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: up in your pocket. So we are, unfortunately in the West,
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: quite devoid of any foundation of kind of religious values.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: And that happened for a long time. And it's not
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: the people in the West. It's not their fault because
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: we have just been indoctrinated for a very long time
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: that we shouldn't care about religion.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: It's not needed, we don't need it. We can do
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: it another way. But I did.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: How Many was a spiritual man, So when he said
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: he cared about all people, even the American people, people
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: all around the world and wanted justice for them, he
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: was always talking about corrupted governments because that's what he
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: genuinely believed. And that's so hard for the West to understand.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: Even though the Western leaders know this, like they're not
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: seeing people. They know how important having some foundation of
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: value principles and conservatism house society, like they know all
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: this stuff, but they also need people to be a
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: little bit stupid for them to get what they need done,
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: you know. And people need to wake up to this
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: fact that perhaps in the West, for a long time,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: because I live in the West, that we have been
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: duped into believing that a society can only survive on capitalism.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Without the spiritual part of it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: And whatever that looks like, whether that's Christianity in the UK,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: you know, but I'm in real Christianity, real faith that
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: I think we need to have like a comeback of that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Well s for Shaikh Thank you very much.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you this week,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: but also in this conversation here, thank you and I
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: will put hopefully a link will put your.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Socials so on the lower third. Thank you afterwards, but
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: thank you very much.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: It's been my pleasure and thank you for having me
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: to chat to you. We've been we've been together a
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: couple of times now and I kind of look up
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: to you. You're, you know, incredible in the work that
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: you do and your your your follow ship viewers know
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: that about you. So I'm learning. I'm learning from you.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you very much. This is Patrick
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Kenningson for the UK column News. I've been here with
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Bush for Sheik, in Tehran and in Mashad and on
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: to well a few other destinations by the end of
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: the week perhaps, but take care and we'll see you
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: next time.