Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / What EdTech Companies Really See When They Call Your District | Jacob Kantor (Chief DODO)

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What EdTech Companies Really See When They Call Your District | Jacob Kantor (Chief DODO) · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Hey, welcome to the
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integrate this ed tech podcast and I'm David
0:31
burner joined by co -host Jeremy Micla and today
0:34
we have with us the the chief dodo as he's known
0:36
but Jacob Cantor has joined us and we're super
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excited to have Jacob on talk to us about His
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work and how all the things going on in ed tech
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with companies and districts and all that So
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Jacob, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, thanks for
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having me excited to join the conversation with
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you guys Yeah, so if you could kind of just get
0:58
us started with and let guests know who you are
1:00
a little bit about your journey, because obviously
1:03
everybody is it's not just that we're in education
1:05
now and working in this space, but there's a
1:07
whole life and things before that. So can you
1:09
kind of give us your background a little bit
1:11
and where you come from? Yeah, I'll give you
1:13
the way back machine. So immigrant kid came to
1:16
America with my family from Ukraine, settled
1:18
in L .A., a USD kid. went to Cal State Northridge,
1:22
went to UCLA, but I graduated in peak 07, 08
1:27
recession time. And, you know, I don't know,
1:31
we all lived through that, right? But getting
1:33
a job at that time, I got really lucky with McGraw
1:37
-Hill. They were piloting the Treasurer's ELA
1:39
program against, I think it was like discovery
1:42
education against a different publisher. So.
1:46
I spent four days a week in the car visiting
1:48
20 to 30 schools a day, dropping off coffee,
1:52
donuts, you name it, right? Just saying, Hey,
1:56
you guys are piloting. What do you need? What
1:57
questions can we answer? And we did that for
2:00
a while. They ended up winning the adoption.
2:02
So I became a trainer at like 23 or 24. A, should
2:07
have never been a trainer, so I say that. Never
2:09
being a teacher, should have never been training
2:11
teachers how to use products, but that was 07,
2:15
08, and that was kind of my first entry into
2:18
education. From there, I went to C2 education,
2:22
and I went to Revolution Prep. I went to CollegeWise,
2:24
I went to Varsity Tutors, RIP, went to Spark
2:28
Education, and then... for about 15 or 16 years
2:32
across all those companies, I was kind of a standalone
2:35
sales guy, right? Like I carried a quota. I had
2:39
a territory. I went and made a strategic plan
2:42
and said, hey, I'm carrying a quota. How do I
2:44
get there? Either we're selling to parents or
2:47
we're selling to the schools or we're selling
2:48
to the administration and then kind of figured
2:50
it out. And over the last three years and some
2:55
change, January will be four years of kind of
2:57
running my own shop. Now I kind of sit in this
3:00
unique space where I work with for -profit, you
3:05
know, ed tech solution providers. I work with
3:07
some nonprofit solution providers. I work with,
3:10
you know, uh, some names you'll recognize and
3:13
you can find all those things on LinkedIn, but
3:15
kind of at the intersection of organizations
3:19
that have solutions that are trying to talk and
3:22
have meaningful conversations with school leaders
3:25
and district leaders about what they solve for,
3:27
and really getting a pulse check from the schools
3:30
to say, what would really make an impact for
3:33
you guys? What are you trying to solve based
3:35
on your LCAP goals, if you're in California,
3:39
or based on your strategic roadmaps? What is
3:41
something that would really move the needle and
3:43
really facilitating these conversations across?
3:46
different providers. I'm working with 10 plus
3:49
right now. And I'd say, you know, something that
3:52
I mentioned on a call the other day that really
3:54
stuck with me and I had a aha moment as well.
3:57
I'm probably doing 100 to 150 district calls
4:01
a month with partners. And like outside of the
4:05
magic schools of the world or instructors, companies
4:09
with huge sales teams that are doing lots of
4:12
sales calls. I don't know anybody else that's
4:15
having that many calls. So I get this kind of
4:17
interesting. perspective on my end of what districts
4:22
are thinking about, what they're not thinking
4:24
about, what solutions that they're integrating,
4:28
what solution is on the shelf, what they're canceling,
4:30
what they're bringing in, like you name it. I'm
4:33
seeing kind of all of it from an insider point
4:36
of view. Cool. And so we'll get into like, obviously
4:41
with the, you know, the districts and their position
4:45
on things and what this all looks like for them.
4:47
But as far as for you, you mentioned a bunch
4:51
of different experiences across 16 years, you
4:54
said, right? So how do you feel like the landscape
4:58
has changed in EdTech, just being in your different
5:02
roles? So say like 10 years ago compared to now,
5:05
do you feel like much has changed or has this
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just been massive changes? Like, what's your
5:10
thoughts on it? Yeah, you know, pre -COVID, I
5:14
kind of wore a unique across the companies I
5:17
was with, a lot of those organizations worked
5:20
with schools and districts, but their end user
5:23
were parents. So the product was purchased by
5:27
parents. So we had to divide these long relationships
5:30
with districts, schools, independent schools
5:33
in the hopes to get in front of the parents.
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So a little bit of a different... kind of a landscape
5:39
than, you know, XYZ AI company now going to the
5:43
district office and selling seat licenses. But
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I say all that with because I spent 10 years
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doing that, I had to develop these really deep
5:52
relationships with schools and districts. And
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some of it was literally tinkering on if a parent
6:00
was not happy. But I worked with a school for
6:04
five years setting up programs. One parent's
6:07
unhappiness towards the program could really
6:10
derail the entire relationship, right? Which
6:13
is really tough to swallow looking back at it.
6:15
You're like, hey, you give and you give and you
6:17
give. And sometimes there's an unexpected Yelp
6:22
review that comes in from a parent and that derails
6:25
everything at a district. But those 10 years
6:27
helped me really look at the long game of education
6:30
and say, like, hey, I'm going to potentially
6:34
go work somewhere else, but I need to keep this
6:36
relationship for the long term. So how do I help
6:39
this person? How do I be on their side, even
6:42
when it's not conducive of success for me at
6:45
the company? So, you know, I would say with COVID
6:48
hitting and the districts getting flush with
6:51
Essar dollars and $180 billion into the ecosystem.
6:56
You know, at that time, because I spent 10 years
6:58
selling tutoring and college counseling, talk
7:01
about right place, right time. You know, I had
7:04
a friend that was a VP over at varsity tutors.
7:08
They were building out their team and I was the
7:09
first hire. So I spent a lot of my time similar
7:12
to what how I spend it now on calls. But I was
7:15
basically every 30 minutes met with a different
7:17
district that was trying to figure out what to
7:19
do for students, what to do for their AP kids,
7:22
what to do for their EL learners, what to do
7:24
for their intervention students, and really figuring
7:27
out being the problem solver to say, hey, like,
7:30
I can go online and look at your allocation of
7:33
dollars you got. Like, how are you planning on
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spending this? What are you doing to support
7:36
your students? COVID, it was an interesting time
7:40
because everybody was able to kind of experiment
7:44
with programs, right? Like there was so much
7:46
money in the system. They were able to say, Hey,
7:49
we don't know if this is going to work, but let's
7:51
try it. Right. And, you know, there was lots
7:53
of different tutoring providers and a lot of
7:56
them saw an increase in business, including at
7:58
varsity tutors. Right. I think I was the person
8:01
who sold the first $5 million in deals there
8:03
over my first couple of months. But I think that
8:07
time was a unique time, right? And I'm curious
8:10
to get your insights on it too. That is also
8:13
the time that, you know, the brisks and the magic
8:16
schools and the Kira's and you name it AI companies.
8:20
That's when they were born, right? Of, Hey, we
8:23
have this solution provider. There's also money
8:26
in the system like Do you want to try this? Uh,
8:29
and you know, one thing I always come back to
8:31
during this time of what we're living in now,
8:34
right? September 20, 26 is would those companies
8:40
have survived if they started now? Because during
8:45
that time, the industry was flush with everybody
8:49
was riding high, right? Like solutions we were
8:53
being bought without evidence, without efficacy,
8:56
sometimes just because it sounded like it would
8:59
help students and like, arguably, people didn't
9:01
have time to do a lot of the vetting. They just
9:04
said, hey, let's try it. So I wonder if some
9:07
of the organizations that started at that time,
9:09
if they started today, October 1st is tomorrow.
9:11
If they started tomorrow, would they be successful
9:14
with the market that there is now? Right. Because
9:17
I'm on with district leaders, you know, literally
9:19
day in and day out where even the solutions they
9:23
really like, they're looking at their budgets
9:26
and saying, we're going to buy this tool or we're
9:29
potentially going to get rid of four teachers
9:31
like that those are the realities that they're
9:34
dealing with right and like for the parents that
9:36
they ultimately serve right that is their constituents
9:39
of them being superintendents or district leaders
9:41
or principals or whoever you are in the ecosystem
9:43
like getting rid of a teacher is a lot worse
9:48
of news to deliver than not buying XYZ solution,
9:53
even though XYZ solution could potentially move
9:56
the needle for some students, right? So it's
9:58
just it's kind of a unique ecosystem that we're
10:02
in now. And then, you know, I know you guys are
10:04
familiar with the Department of Education's letter
10:07
that came out. I don't know what it was four
10:09
weeks ago or whatever it was that was talking
10:12
about, hey, you know, who's the product for What
10:15
is the best way that it's used? What is the time
10:19
prescription? Who should be using it? Who shouldn't
10:21
be using it? What's the evidence that this works?
10:23
What's the efficacy dosage and all that stuff.
10:27
And generally that was an amazing call out from
10:29
the Department of Ed, because I'm surprised that
10:33
those questions weren't top of mind for everybody,
10:35
right? Like Erin Moats, a great friend, like
10:39
she's been from the rooftops yelling about evidence,
10:43
efficacy, what this, what works, what doesn't
10:46
work, like let's double down on the things that
10:48
work for the five years that I've known her.
10:51
Right. So it's good that there are now evaluation
10:55
systems in place, but you know, what I'm curious
10:58
about is it's awesome to have a rubric of how
11:01
people are evaluating tools. It's another thing
11:04
to not to have the money or not have the money
11:07
for those tools, but I'm curious of what you
11:09
guys are saying. So do you think? Well, yeah,
11:12
I I completely agree with you when it comes down
11:15
to I think for most districts that are facing
11:17
budget cuts that the thing that they're going
11:19
to try to protect the first is their teaching
11:22
staff. You know, and then they'll look at well
11:26
if we if we can protect those, but we have to
11:28
cut an administrative position, you know that
11:31
might be. the chopping block position if you're
11:34
going to cut a person, right? You know, and in
11:37
a lot of our schools around us, it's that person
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that would have been in instructional technology
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or technology integration, the one that are going
11:44
to actually help the teachers use many of the
11:47
products that you're that you're talking about.
11:49
And those are the ones that get the axe. I think
11:51
even before some of the other supports that are
11:55
in place, you know, whether they instructional
11:57
coaches oftentimes find their way. you know,
12:01
that are probably teachers on special assignment
12:03
that they're going to wind up back in the classroom
12:05
and bump a younger teacher out, you know, of
12:09
that seniority list, at least in Minnesota. That's
12:11
kind of the way that that goes. But, you know,
12:13
then they do look at, well, what sort of programs
12:15
can we, you know, get by, go without? And I think
12:20
that's definitely the conversations that we hear.
12:24
But I am kind of curious here, as you were mentioning,
12:27
you know, And tech companies that are looking
12:32
for ways to prove that they are effective, that
12:36
they can demonstrate with data, that they can
12:40
demonstrate anecdotally the successes of their
12:43
products. Is that what helps a good company set
12:48
themselves apart? And is it a red flag if one
12:52
of those vendors can't present those things?
12:55
Is that a red flag that a district should be
12:57
looking at? I would say 100 % very, very important,
13:03
but with one asterisk that there are new companies
13:06
being built every single week that are solving
13:09
for something that is very important and they
13:13
might be so early into this product market fit
13:18
slash figuring out who they are in the ecosystem
13:21
that they might not have that. Right. So I always
13:24
like to say that there's a lot of people looking
13:26
to solve great problems. So they might not have
13:29
that evidence and efficacy. Right. But I think,
13:32
you know, a lot of the partners I have a I'm
13:38
year four of my business compared to year one
13:41
of my business. Right. Year one, I'd say I was
13:43
probably on 20 zoom calls a day with anybody
13:46
who wanted to meet. And I said, this is awesome.
13:50
Like Who do you already work with? Where are
13:53
you? Are you funded? Do you have districts that
13:56
pay? And all these questions that I ask regularly
13:59
now. At that point, I wasn't mature enough in
14:02
my business to say, hey, like, where are you
14:05
in the ecosystem? Like, how do I help you? Like,
14:07
where are you? Where's the best weather point
14:10
for me to assist? And I'd say where my business
14:14
has matured in the companies I work with is I
14:17
do my best to do a lot of screening up front.
14:20
Not because I have this crazy criteria of what
14:25
makes a good partner or what doesn't make a good
14:27
partner but ultimately I kind of live in this
14:30
intersection of I have great solution providers,
14:33
but I also have districts that trust me where
14:37
if I'm bringing them something and saying, Hey,
14:40
I don't know if a you have the money for this
14:42
B if you have a need for this or C if you are
14:45
even in the mindset to talk about this, but this
14:48
product is solving XYZ. Here's where they're
14:51
solving it. Here's the early research that we're
14:55
seeing in the evidence. Like this might be worth
14:57
it for you to spend some time. And even with
15:00
all that. There's 90 % of people that don't respond
15:04
and that is just this interesting dynamic of
15:07
like, you know yesterday I had dinner with a
15:10
good superintendent friend of mine and He's getting
15:14
500 emails a day from a good chunk of them are
15:19
vendor emails So you can believe that even my
15:23
emails to him when I'm sending him an invite
15:26
to dinner or the address to whatever is also
15:30
getting lost in there. Right. So there's just
15:32
too much inbound coming in to everybody that
15:36
I think if you have that evidence, if you have
15:39
that efficacy, if you have case studies on where
15:41
this is working, I think just kind of puts you
15:45
in the front of the line. And that's not to say
15:47
that they are going to buy it. That's not to
15:49
say that they're going to partner. That's not
15:50
to say that they'll even pilot. But I think it
15:53
sets up the conversation when you have that conversation
15:57
for a much more thoughtful dialogue. Right. And
16:00
like the partners I have that are amazing that
16:03
come prepared to meetings and say, Hey, I've
16:06
actually reviewed your strategic plans and your
16:09
math scores over the last three years and I'm
16:13
seeing outliers of students killing it. What's
16:18
going on with those kids? What do you have in
16:19
place for those kids? Like we as a company would
16:22
like to learn because maybe we can do some learning
16:25
and integrate that into our own systems. That
16:28
is a much more thoughtful, engaging conversation
16:31
than, Hey, We're a math provider and we do XYZ
16:37
like what do you think like that conversation
16:40
only goes one of two ways like Well, I guess
16:44
it's okay like versus hey, we revered your data
16:48
We're seeing X like tell us more about like what
16:51
you guys have in place that's helping solve for
16:54
that and if we get to a Position where we can
16:57
tell you about our product like we'll do that
17:00
But the thoughtful organizations that are really
17:03
moving the needle in getting greater conversations,
17:07
getting to second meetings, are coming prepared
17:10
with thoughtful dialogue beyond just, hey, I'd
17:14
like to tell you about our solution. I'd like
17:16
to tell you about, let me demo for you right
17:19
away. I tell all the organizations I work with,
17:22
if we spend a half hour or 45 minutes with somebody
17:25
and you don't demo, that's OK. you can have a
17:29
dialogue and you can build a relationship with
17:31
somebody and then at the end say, I really enjoyed
17:34
this conversation. I realized I failed and didn't
17:38
even tell you about what we do in depth or show
17:41
you. Is it okay to send you some follow up? Is
17:45
it okay to book 30 minutes a month from now to
17:49
actually show you and think about it even for
17:53
you guys like if you just spent 30 or 45 minutes
17:55
talking about the success you're having at a
17:58
district what implementations what you're doing
18:01
what the kids are like where all the wins are
18:04
you're likely to say this was a thoughtful dialogue
18:09
like i don't mind this let's meet again right
18:11
like and i think some organizations because they
18:14
have leadership where they're like did you demo
18:18
How was the call is it? Did you book a second
18:21
meeting all of these metrics, which I understand
18:23
right? I sold for 15 16 years. So I understand
18:26
that's important but I also think that there's
18:29
a human side of our industry where people like
18:33
to do business with people they like and if you
18:37
go in and you demo something and What's the ultimate
18:41
like outcome from a demo? Do you like it? Yes
18:45
or no? versus let me dive into all your data
18:49
and like maybe we get to what we solve for and
18:51
maybe we don't, but like you then build a deeper
18:53
relationship with what that person's living in
18:55
day in and day out. Right, and that's not too
18:58
much different than say a teacher at the start
19:00
of a school year getting to know their students
19:03
and investing that time to find out a little
19:05
bit more about them before they're gonna connect
19:07
them to the learning that's gonna come after.
19:10
Totally. Totally. And I might be that weird parents.
19:13
I hope not. I hope there's other parents out
19:15
there that are doing this too. But, you know,
19:17
my kids, as they get a new teacher, I like to
19:20
set the teacher up for success too. They get
19:23
like week two, a one pager about my kids. Not
19:27
because I'm like instructing them on how to do
19:30
their job, but in like, Hey, this is my kid.
19:34
He's super intellectual here. If he gets off
19:37
track, it's because he's bored and he on his
19:41
end thinks he already knows it. These are good
19:43
redirecting activities for you. Here's what he's
19:46
really into. Here's how we reward him at home.
19:49
Here's how we don't reward him if he's bad. Like
19:52
use this however you would like. Some teachers
19:55
are like, oh my God, this is great. This is like
19:57
a rubric for working with your kid. And I've
20:00
never heard the negative side of it, but I bet
20:02
some teachers are like, oh, I got one of those
20:04
parents this year. Uh, Jacob, I was going to
20:09
ask you to, uh, something that came up, uh, that
20:11
I thought about is, uh, when you're looking at
20:14
districts, do you think there's a communication
20:16
issue at all? Like, um, we hear sometimes where
20:20
something shiny and new comes out, right? And
20:24
so, and then, so like one district will adopt
20:26
it so that it's like a domino effect, right?
20:29
Oh yeah. We'll, we'll grab that too, because
20:30
we want to compete with this other district.
20:32
We want to make sure our students have access
20:34
to that type of thing. Do you feel like, in your
20:38
role of working with a lot of different districts
20:39
and working with these companies, do you feel
20:41
like that's a common thing that happens? Or do
20:45
you get a better picture for what districts are,
20:49
how they're evaluating actually bringing something
20:52
on board, like a tool that's gonna be throughout
20:56
their entire district? Do you have a process
20:59
for that? Or what does that look like for you?
21:01
Yeah, I think in getting initial conversations
21:05
started, it's always a lot easier if an organization
21:09
is working with multiple districts and we can
21:11
point to, hey, I'm using LA as an example, like,
21:16
hey, Compton Unified, Linwood and Duarte and
21:22
Arcadia and San Marino are all using this. Here's
21:25
why they're using it for different use cases
21:28
like are you looking to solve any of these things
21:31
that they are working on? Is it easier? You're
21:34
giving them an easier path to say, this is kind
21:37
of interesting, right? So does it open the door
21:40
and make it a little bit easier for a dialogue?
21:42
It totally does. But does it get somebody to
21:45
move forward and pilot and purchase? I don't
21:47
think it does. Like, I think every district is
21:50
unique, right? Linwood and Compton Unified are
21:52
right by each other, literally neighboring districts.
21:55
They have different students that they serve,
21:59
they have different parents they serve. One is
22:02
looking at, I'm just making this stuff up so
22:04
it's not facts, but like one's looking at graduation
22:07
rates from high school and that's their biggest
22:09
focus for the year. And one is looking at EL
22:12
students and up -leveling math scores, right?
22:14
So like if those are the priorities across the
22:18
districts, like a tool that one district is using
22:21
might literally not even be on the radar of the
22:24
others because they're not focused in on that.
22:26
So I think it helps with like initial outreach
22:31
and getting meetings on on the books. I don't
22:34
think it helps with getting things further along
22:37
unless they have a specific need for the solution.
22:41
Right. And I'm sure you guys have heard this
22:43
dynamic of like Ben Cornell coined it. And I
22:46
never like left my brain around this idea of
22:48
like What problem are you trying to solve? And
22:52
are you a pain killer or a vitamin? If you have
22:55
a toothache, you will pay whatever the dentist
22:58
says this costs for it to go away because you
23:02
are in pain. If you are vitamin C and your doctor's
23:06
like, hey, you need to take a little bit more
23:08
vitamin C. It is not the same as if you are in
23:12
pain. Right. So for the solution provider, it's,
23:15
are you solving something that they are actively
23:17
engaged with in conversations in their cabinet
23:19
with their board? And this is their number one
23:22
priority, or is this a nice to have? And I'd
23:25
love your guys's take on it too. There's a lot
23:27
of nice to haves. There's a lot of folks that
23:30
are building that, you know, they used to work
23:34
at a school and they vibe coded something over
23:36
the weekend. And that's awesome. I'm like encouraging
23:38
that I'm doing that myself. I'm sure you guys
23:40
are too, but just because you had a use case
23:45
for it at your one specific school site does
23:48
not mean that this will be adopted across the
23:50
country or district wide, right? Like we have
23:53
to be very thoughtful and intentional now where
23:57
there's less funding in the space. And if you're
24:01
not that painkiller, like, hey, you can still
24:03
make a friend, you make a relationship, you have
24:05
a new district that you've met with for a future
24:08
dialogue. But that person's not moving forward
24:10
if it's a nice to have. Right. Like, this is
24:12
not the time of excess dollars in the system.
24:16
Yeah. And I actually like that, too, because
24:17
and that goes back to your example earlier with
24:20
the COVID conversation and how that that was
24:23
like a prescription essentially that it. I mean,
24:27
I guess it would be a painkiller because it was
24:29
like, OK, we have this situation. We need to
24:32
figure out a solution for it immediately because
24:35
this is our reality now. And so along with that,
24:40
you know, came the overuse, obviously by necessity
24:44
of screens. Right. And so have you had what is
24:48
your perceptions been around the conversation
24:51
with screen time and how? Ed Tech is kind of
24:54
becoming more of a villain more and more where
24:58
we in 2020, it was like a savior. And then now
25:03
it's like, you know, the exact opposite. What
25:06
is your thoughts there? Yeah. And I'll tell you,
25:09
I'll even bring you back to like March 2020,
25:12
right? Think about how many licenses Zoom, Google
25:16
Meet. or you name it, whatever the provider of
25:21
virtual meetings sold, right? Like shame on me
25:23
for not buying Zoom stock. I feel like I was
25:26
using Zoom like in 2015 and telling people like,
25:29
you could trust this, this is not a virus, like
25:32
this is just a virtual call. But I think, you
25:35
know, a lot of this is probably the tail end
25:39
of parents seeing what school was like in March,
25:43
2020. And I don't blame teachers for their teaching
25:47
style at that point. Like think about the like
25:51
if I was a teacher at that time, I had a two
25:53
year old at the house. I can only fathom what
25:57
it would have been if I was a teacher and I was
25:59
trying to teach a class while also having my
26:01
own kids home while having a wife that works
26:04
like now multiply that by folks with more than
26:08
one kid at the house. Right. And can you imagine
26:10
the bandwidth plus like everyone was doing the
26:13
best they could at that time but can you imagine
26:17
all the parents out there that were experiencing
26:19
their kids on a screen at the kitchen table watching
26:24
videos or you know we all heard the horror stories
26:27
of like you know being on a zoom call but then
26:30
also watching netflix and literally watching
26:32
every single show of whatever it was right so
26:35
like that was the that's an example that parents
26:38
got of like this is school I think we got to
26:42
give some grace there where like that was not
26:44
the experience that every single student went
26:46
through, but there was a lot of that, right?
26:48
But what was the fix for that at the time? There
26:52
wasn't a fix, right? Everybody was at home. We
26:54
wanted to continue instruction. Like that was
26:57
the only real option, right? So I think Some
27:00
of what we're seeing is a little bit of a wave
27:02
from that. And, you know, I'm sure you guys are
27:05
saying, like, I am like the movement for ESAs
27:08
and parent choice. And, you know, are you going
27:10
to go to charter school or are you going to do
27:12
Alpha school or are you going to homeschool?
27:15
Those were always an option. Right. Like they've
27:17
just gotten significantly a bigger population
27:21
of students and parents that are now choosing
27:23
that. Right. And like You know, I myself went
27:26
to an Alpha school event here in Santa Monica.
27:28
I live in Los Angeles and like there's a subset
27:33
of families that are going to choose to put their
27:35
kids into Alpha school, right? Because. Two hours
27:39
of learning and then they get to if they're into
27:41
shoes like I am they can set up a business and
27:44
figure out You know building vibe coding apps
27:46
on like which shoes are selling and not selling
27:49
and like they're gonna water those passions And
27:52
they're gonna graduate with more skills because
27:54
they're not in a traditional eight -hour school
27:57
day But that is not for every family right like
28:00
in Los Angeles I think don't quote me because
28:02
I don't even have the numbers but I'm assuming
28:04
it was over $50 ,000 in tuition and like That
28:09
is the going rate for Harvard Westlake, for Sierra
28:12
Canyon, for Oaks Christian. I have a lot of schools
28:14
within, you know, a half hour drive of me where
28:17
that is the tuition and parents are paying for
28:20
it, right? So there are programs out there for
28:24
every type of parents. And then it's truly on,
28:28
you know, what's best for the students. You know,
28:30
and even on my end, you know, I have two kids
28:32
in LA USD. One goes to a highly gifted school.
28:36
we applied, we got it right. It wasn't like I'm
28:39
anybody in the district. I applied. We got in.
28:41
We made a decision as a family. My other son
28:44
goes to a neighborhood school, half the size,
28:48
but they had a unique program where he's a speech
28:51
therapy kid. We go to speech therapy four days
28:53
a week and they had a program where it was like
28:57
15 total students, two teachers, two aides and
29:00
a speech therapist in the class. And like that
29:03
it was the perfect thing for him at that time,
29:06
right? Do we keep him at that school? We'll see.
29:09
But at that time, like we couldn't even fathom
29:11
him going to his brother's school, let alone
29:13
did they, they didn't offer his grade, right?
29:15
He was in TK at that point. But I think every
29:18
parent is ultimately trying to make a decision
29:21
for what's best for their students. And how can
29:23
that student thrive, pick up the learnings, be
29:27
a... model citizen for whatever that looks like
29:30
when they're 18 and they're out of the house.
29:32
And if they're choosing a CT path or they're
29:34
choosing, you know, the college and career route,
29:37
like, I think ultimately parents are trying to
29:39
make the best decision for their kids. And sometimes
29:42
it's with all the facts and, Hey, this program
29:45
makes sense. This is the best in the area. And
29:48
sometimes it's a little bit of a shiny tool.
29:53
that just came out and it's the newest and greatest
29:56
and it's getting a lot of buzz on social media.
29:58
And like, like all of us, we are creatures of
30:03
what we consume, right? So if I consume a whole
30:05
bunch of Alpha school videos on Instagram or
30:09
wherever, what do you think is going to be served
30:11
to me? Soon enough, it'll be parents talking
30:14
about their awesome experience of Alpha school.
30:16
And then subconsciously, it's going to get me
30:19
a little bit further. towards liking Alpha school,
30:23
finding out, figuring out tuition, right? Like
30:25
that is the algorithms that we're in, unfortunately,
30:28
or fortunately, however we look at it. So I think
30:31
like there's just a, there's a path for every
30:35
kid. And I think parents, uh, will know best.
30:38
And I think that's what we're seeing, right?
30:40
And I don't know if you guys are following in
30:42
January 2027, right? You have this tax incentive
30:46
coming out where, you know, if you have a tax
30:48
burden, you can donate to a district or I think
30:53
it's an SGO is what how it's called. And if that
30:55
SGO supports whatever the district is, it's basically
30:58
like you're donating to that district. You write
31:01
it off your taxes. In California, where I am
31:04
hasn't opted into that program. So for other
31:07
states that have like if your state has I can
31:09
in theory donate to a district in your state
31:12
and still get that tax credit so like there's
31:15
going to be even more dollars from the parent
31:17
side flowing into different programs. You think
31:20
this this raises questions of equity you know
31:24
uh like go back to COVID and David and I are
31:28
both in rural areas of Minnesota and I remember
31:31
being classroom teacher I could not teach my
31:35
classes via, you know, virtually, and have my
31:39
two kids attend their classes virtually at the
31:43
same time within our house. I actually went into
31:45
the school. You know, I had to kind of like,
31:50
you know, we were allowed in the school, but
31:52
you like you could get there and you had to stay
31:54
in your classroom and you could teach from your
31:56
classroom. And if you had to go to the bathroom
31:58
there, it was there and back, you know, kind
32:00
of like don't touch anything else. But just to,
32:03
you know, because it was an issue of bandwidth
32:05
that we could get to our household. You know,
32:09
then if you go past COVID and I'm thinking about
32:12
even now with some other, I think things that
32:16
are creating larger digital divides when it comes
32:19
to AI and schools that are allowing access for
32:24
AI for teachers and students and others that
32:26
aren't. And I'm not. you know, trying to say
32:30
one is right or wrong there. I'm just trying
32:32
to say, some kids are getting the experience
32:35
here that other kids aren't getting. And you're
32:37
talking about here now too, you know, like being
32:40
able to choose where you're gonna put your dollars.
32:43
And if you have a school district that's more
32:46
affluent, you know, or in that regard compared
32:49
to others that aren't, is that gonna just widen
32:53
that gap, that disparity? Yeah, and is that you
32:57
know and and as you know, and you can look at
33:00
it from an edtech vendor perspective You could
33:02
look at it from a district district perspective,
33:04
you know, how do you try to? Kind of facilitate
33:09
the the the bridging of those gaps totally and
33:13
I think with that Divide the equity divide right?
33:16
Like I'm sure you guys are following all things
33:18
erate and I'm on text with a huge district in
33:23
a different state, and they just resubmitted
33:25
e -rate comments. And can you imagine, and mind
33:29
you, rural speaks to my heart, right? I'm close
33:32
with the NREA folks. I've been working with rural
33:35
state leaders for probably going on 10 years
33:39
now because A number of years ago, I met Alan
33:42
Pratt, who is the executive director of NREA.
33:46
And on one of our calls, he was like, hey, you
33:48
know why you should want to work with us? We
33:50
have 10 million rural students across 50 states.
33:53
And I was like, is that a fact? I looked it up.
33:57
I did some research. And I was like, you are
33:59
right. There's a lot of students out there that
34:01
are in parts of Oregon that have not so great
34:07
internet. in schoolhouses where there's a hundred
34:10
and total students because of a rural area, right?
34:13
But let's be honest, those kids deserve a great
34:16
education, just like the kids at LA USD deserve
34:19
a good education, right? So we can even look
34:22
at what's going on in E -rate, right? If that
34:24
program goes away, and I'm not saying it was
34:28
100 % above like past the sniff test and every,
34:33
every single hotspot was used properly. Like,
34:36
look, Does it need to be a better program? It
34:38
does. But does it need to go away completely?
34:41
No way. Can you imagine the kids that are getting
34:46
internet devices at the house to make sure that
34:50
they have bandwidth to complete their homework?
34:54
Is internet not a basic necessity now that some
34:57
of the students need? And we're not even talking
34:59
about income levels and all this stuff. just
35:04
take the rural side of it, right? Like there's
35:05
some parts that just don't have internet and
35:08
that full circle leads me to a year ago, I was
35:11
on stage with Matt Winters from Utah at the rural
35:15
conference. And he was telling me all the programs
35:17
that their state specifically did where they
35:20
were been for the last 10 years, running fiber
35:22
optics to every school system in the state, other
35:27
than a couple. And those couple were like, It's
35:30
on the other side of the lake and to run it like
35:33
they are figuring out that side of it and that
35:35
might be a starling type situation. So we got
35:39
it. I had a chance to talk with him this summer
35:41
at a conference and they brought it to those
35:44
those tiny little places most of them on reservation
35:48
land that are deep within canyons and they were
35:51
like literally flying helicopters into some of
35:54
those areas with like the cabling and the infrastructure
35:58
that they needed to be able to to bring that
36:00
connectivity to those those people in need. And
36:03
like you said, it's really it's it's a ubiquitous
36:07
ubiquitous utility. It's like having lights,
36:10
you know, 100 percent. I mean, this is full circle.
36:14
I think a week ago or it might have been two
36:16
weeks ago. It was very hot in Los Angeles, like
36:19
100 plus. The temperature just didn't go down.
36:23
Power outages. Luckily, and I don't know what
36:26
was going on with my power at my house. The TV
36:29
and the internet was working, but the air conditioner
36:32
wasn't working. I flipped that. Give me AAC and
36:36
no internet all day in high degree days. You
36:42
know, can you imagine I was sitting there and
36:44
I was like, well, at least we have internet,
36:45
I could do some work. Like it might be a little
36:47
bit hot, but like I'll turn the fans on in every
36:50
room. But like, can you imagine if internet was
36:52
down or I've had this in previous homes where
36:55
like there's a power outage and the internet
36:59
provider needs two days to fix poles. And you're
37:02
like, what do you do in that scenario? Right.
37:05
You're like, work doesn't stop. I guess I can
37:07
take calls on my phone. I'm privileged I could
37:10
figure out, do I go to the library? Do I go to
37:12
a coffee shop? Whatever. Like, I will figure
37:14
it out. But can you imagine if you're stuck at
37:16
home and it's COVID and you have no internet?
37:17
Because I had this, right? To your point, like,
37:21
some families have two kids, some families have
37:23
four kids, some families have even more. Can
37:25
you imagine mom and dad working and having four
37:28
kids on Zoom? Like, I can only fathom the bandwidth
37:31
issues that those households were having during
37:34
COVID. Jacob, one of the questions I have for
37:40
you too is on like with with EdTech adoption,
37:44
it is around like the success of the tool being
37:49
implemented. So obviously, you know, they see
37:52
the the shiny thing, let's say, or maybe maybe
37:56
it's like a it's not just that, but they see
37:58
the the importance of a tool, how it could be
38:01
useful to them. But what about the failure of
38:04
those tools? Like when What is it that you see
38:08
that they where they just don't work out? Is
38:11
it like the product wasn't as good as it was
38:15
maybe promised to be? There wasn't great implementation
38:18
from the district or maybe there wasn't enough
38:21
support from the company around the adoption
38:24
for for the staff and the students. You know,
38:27
like continued professional development is is
38:30
always huge for us because we are opportunities
38:32
are so slim and so we see a lot where. schools
38:36
will maybe adopt a Tool with the best of intentions,
38:40
but then there's not really like continued support
38:42
along the way Yeah, my anybody to do it, you
38:46
know, I think I think it's all of the above I
38:48
think sometimes You know not to knock any of
38:53
the district leaders or staff that are making
38:56
decisions out there, but sometimes they don't
38:58
know what the right questions are to ask, right?
39:01
Like what does the professional development look
39:03
like? What does the onboarding look like? What
39:06
does the success look like beyond us buying it
39:09
in our first two months of launching, right?
39:11
So some of that is very, very important for everyone
39:13
to ask. Some of that is these organizations are
39:18
also figuring that side of the house out, right?
39:20
Do they have proper customer success teams? Do
39:22
they have, you know, like one rep sold it. then
39:27
handed it off to another rep to do the implementation.
39:31
What happens when that rep gets a different job?
39:33
Like who takes over that account, right? These
39:35
are just real examples, right? So, you know,
39:38
in my end with a lot of the companies I work
39:40
with, I say, Hey, you're trying to build a deep
39:43
enough relationship with that person where they
39:45
trust you, where when stuff hits the fan and
39:49
then inevitably will some there'll be Log in
39:53
issues. There'll be something that a parent is
39:55
not happy with There'll be something a student
39:57
does with your solution that they weren't supposed
39:59
to be doing inevitably. There will be a hiccup
40:02
Can you get the call from that person saying?
40:05
Hey, this is what's going on How do we fix it
40:07
versus it not getting a call? Everybody's sitting
40:11
on it and then the board Having a meeting and
40:15
saying what happened we heard about this and
40:17
at that point it's too late at that point is
40:22
escalated into a much larger problem versus squashing
40:27
it or fixing something right when it happens.
40:29
Because inevitably there will be hiccups. There
40:32
will be implementation problems. There will be
40:35
teachers that really love the tool and then had
40:38
to do work to learn the tool, had to have to
40:41
do work to implement the tool. And sometimes
40:43
I'm sure you guys see this as well. There's some
40:47
stubborn teachers out there too that are like,
40:50
I don't care what tool you bought me. I'm doing
40:52
things the way I doing it. My kids are learning
40:55
just fine. And you know what? Like fire me. Like
40:59
I'm not using this tool. And like what happens
41:02
in that situation when the company does do all
41:04
of the right things, but the implementation from
41:07
the district side isn't proper, right? And I
41:10
think that's why we're seeing, you know, in a
41:12
couple of weeks, I go to New York for a tech
41:14
week and the panel I'm on with a CTO of large
41:17
County here, but also superintendent and outcomes
41:20
based contracting folks are really around, you
41:23
know, how do you set up these programs that are
41:27
moving forward at districts with mutual accountability
41:30
for the vendor? They provide this service. They
41:33
are got to onboard it. They got to have all the
41:35
customer service. They got to do their part.
41:38
The district also has a part in this to make
41:40
this successful too, right? They have to make
41:42
sure that all the teachers are getting professional
41:45
development or whatever that looks like, right?
41:47
So proper launch and implementation, because
41:49
I definitely didn't see that during COVID, right?
41:52
You had people buying tools and saying, this
41:54
is what we got, figure it out. And then what
41:56
happened? There was low adoption. There were
41:59
low usage rates. And then when it was time a
42:02
year later to renew, you reviewed this and you
42:05
said, ooh. It actually looks like there's 6 %
42:09
usage across the district for the students, yet
42:12
we paid for 100 % of the students to have this
42:15
license. This tool... we're not renewing. And
42:19
that also sucks for the 6 % of students that
42:22
were killing it with that tool as well, right?
42:24
Like, yes, there needs to be more usage. There's
42:28
a huge gap of students that didn't use it. But
42:30
like, what happens to those 6 % of students that
42:33
were actually thriving using that tool, right?
42:35
So there's so many kind of variables. where some
42:38
of that is of course on the solution provider,
42:41
but some of that is on the district to make sure
42:43
it's properly implemented as well. And that there's
42:46
a champion saying like, this is why we're doing
42:49
it. And I think it comes back. We didn't speak
42:51
to any of this, but it comes back to storytelling.
42:55
I work with a lot of the organizations that are
42:59
kind of in my cohort, right around the, Hey,
43:02
I'm helping you get these meetings because we're
43:05
telling this story of what could be at the district
43:07
if they implement. They also have to tell that
43:10
story at the district to those teachers, to those
43:13
parents, to those kids of this is why we chose
43:16
this tool. If we are successful together, this
43:20
is the potential outcome we can get. We need
43:23
you as a partner to make sure we get this outcome
43:27
that we think we can get with this tool. I don't
43:29
know that that's being done across the board
43:32
at every single district, right? Because you
43:34
can only imagine If parents understand why a
43:37
tool is purchased, kids understand, teachers
43:40
understand, administrators, not just the person
43:43
who decided at the district that this was right,
43:45
but like every stakeholder, that's a powerful
43:48
potential use case for everybody. And I've definitely
43:52
seen that, too, with with instances of districts
43:56
around us and a couple of the vendors that we
43:59
work with, the ones that implement with fidelity.
44:02
that are telling the stories that you talk about
44:05
are the ones that get those high usage rates
44:07
and they're finding the success using that tool
44:10
that other districts that let it fall by the
44:13
wayside like you had talked about, where only
44:15
6 % of the students are effectively using it.
44:18
And then, like you say, you take that tool away.
44:20
And then now, you know, that was an important
44:23
thing for that 6%. So 100 % Jacob, do you feel
44:29
like we're repeating some of the same mistakes
44:32
with AI that we've done with EdTech in the past
44:35
when it comes to adoption of some of these things?
44:38
Obviously, there's a there's a ton of programs
44:40
that have come out. You have all your large ones,
44:43
right? Like Google, obviously being a massive
44:45
one because they're already in the education
44:47
space with workspace for education and things
44:50
like that. So do you find that you find that
44:54
we're not doing? what we should be with AI when
44:58
it comes to adopting tools? Are we kind of just
45:00
having it fall in line with what we've always
45:01
done with EdTech? Or do you see it as maybe an
45:04
opportunity where there is a lot of push and
45:06
I'm involved in some of these conversations and
45:09
have been part of different groups that are really
45:12
emphasizing having a system in place or having
45:14
like AI guidelines in place prior to considering
45:17
tool adoption and things like that. So do you
45:19
think we're moving more in that direction and
45:21
that's good? Or are we just kind of status quo
45:25
like following the same formula that we did with
45:27
EdTech tools for the last how many years? I think
45:31
it's similar. We're on a similar path for AI
45:34
tools that any other tool that didn't have AI.
45:38
I think the thoughtful districts that are saying
45:41
the students are already using this how do we
45:46
empower them, our teachers and our administrators
45:49
to be power users and learn proper AI usage and
45:53
literacy and readiness for whatever word we want
45:55
to use for it. I think those are the districts
45:58
that are going to be far ahead of the folks that
46:01
are saying, hey, let's put a pause on it. And,
46:04
you know, LA USD put a pause, New York City public
46:07
school has put a pause. And I'm not against the
46:09
pause either. Like, in my household, it's not
46:12
like my second grader is on an iPad when he gets
46:15
home. He gets enough screen time. We watch plenty
46:17
of shows. We watch movies where Mark Rober fans
46:20
write like he's definitely doing some learning
46:23
from screens. He's just not on a laptop, a Chromebook
46:27
or an iPad at home. Right. So I'm with all of
46:31
those districts that are saying, hey, for the
46:32
young kids. let's figure out what this needs
46:36
to be. But I think some of those districts are
46:39
also looking at this and saying, we're following
46:42
the trend and we should pause this. Where the
46:45
ones that are saying, no, we're not gonna pause
46:48
this, but we are not gonna allow the students
46:50
to use it, but why would we don't have the teachers
46:52
use it if they're getting an hour back of their
46:54
day or if we're, our administrators are. now
46:58
much more happier because they're not doing reporting
47:00
and they're using some AI to actually save them
47:03
two hours a week, three hours a week. This goes
47:07
back full circle to I was presenting with Los
47:10
Angeles County Office of Ed with Chris, who's
47:13
the ed tech head for the county. And one thing
47:16
that he said that never left me is he said, hey,
47:20
whatever tool you're using, If your teachers
47:22
are using something and just saving them an hour,
47:25
but you give them an extra hour of work, that
47:28
is not a happy teacher. That is an overworked
47:31
teacher. If they save an hour with whatever tool
47:33
you give them. give them an hour back. Let them
47:37
go home to their families earlier. Let them go
47:40
cook dinner. Let them go to their kids basketball
47:43
practice or soccer practice. Like happy employees
47:46
will make better teachers, will make better administrators.
47:49
So this kind of dynamic of like, what is the
47:52
use case that we're all trying to solve for?
47:54
Is it efficiency? Is it learning? Is it up skilling?
47:59
Is it catching kids up, right? Like what's the
48:01
proper use case that we're looking to solve for?
48:04
And like, Is AI helping us get there with whatever
48:07
tool we're using? I'd say that's a positive in
48:12
the ecosystem, right? I feel like I'm still hearing,
48:16
and I'd love your guys' take around this idea
48:18
of kids are going to cheat using AI. Kids will
48:23
cheat using every available thing to them. That
48:27
is pre -AI. That is every imaginable like TI
48:32
calculators program with the answers or water
48:34
bottles with notes on them. Right. Like they
48:37
will find a way but to blanket and say, no, this
48:40
is like something they're going to use to cheat.
48:43
Like, look, I understand. Right. Like if somebody
48:45
if a student is running writing their entire
48:48
paper using one prompt and not learning anything,
48:51
that is not a good thing. But I always go back
48:53
to like friends of mine that like Oh, I always
48:56
chat with about the homework debate, right? Like
48:59
if a student could do all their homework using
49:02
AI, maybe we should have different homework or
49:06
maybe we should have different projects or maybe
49:08
we should have a different level of learning
49:10
that is tested because I'm doing homework every
49:13
night with two kids. Some of the homework you're
49:16
like, I understand why we're doing this, but
49:18
also, like, are there other ways that we could
49:21
be doing this versus like the worksheets and
49:24
the math book that is helping us with whatever
49:28
we're working on, like rulers right now and measuring
49:30
things in second grade. So it's like, there's
49:33
a use case for that. But like, ultimately, like,
49:36
how do I teach that and move on versus spending
49:39
a week on the same kind of thing, right? Like,
49:42
there's a ruler for a reason, like, like, let's
49:45
use it. So Jacob, I have to hop off here. I'm
49:48
leading a training here in three minutes. So
49:51
David's going to finish up the rest of it with
49:53
you. That's all right. And they I'm just gonna
49:57
like mute and hide myself I don't cuz I you started
50:02
the recording though, didn't you? Yeah, I should
50:04
be fine if I if yeah, you're good. I'll remove
50:09
you and then I'm just gonna switch to this All
50:13
right Sorry Yeah, he had to run to he had to
50:17
do a training for teachers. Actually, so all
50:19
good. Okay Yeah, so no, I definitely appreciate
50:22
all the insights If you're good with it, I'll
50:26
cut back in and we can just do the lightning
50:28
round if you're good with that. Let's do it.
50:31
Okay, cool. All right, so Jacob, we definitely
50:35
appreciate all your insights and the things that
50:37
you provided us with different information and
50:41
perspective. We always do this with all of our
50:43
guests. We do kind of a fun lightning round.
50:46
You can give these as one word answers or they
50:49
could be like as long as you want them to be.
50:53
We're going to get you some personal questions
50:55
here. So first one is to kick it off is if you
50:58
could only wear one pair of shoes for the rest
51:00
of your life, what are you choosing? I have these
51:05
like Vimaro premium, almost like Hoka shoes that
51:10
are like walking on clouds. But my wife absolutely
51:13
hates them because they have this crazy two inch
51:18
insole that makes me like six five and I'm already
51:21
six two. So it they are so comfy, but they are
51:25
I love them. Others are like, those are interesting.
51:28
And that's okay. Like, everyone's entitled to
51:31
their opinion on shoes. And only person that
51:34
has to like them is the person that's wearing
51:35
them. Right. Okay, next one is, this is about
51:40
conferences. What's your favorite thing when
51:42
you go to conferences? Like, what's what do you
51:43
like the most about those? I think on my end,
51:47
I'm still a nerd that likes to attend sessions
51:50
that friends are doing because, A, I like to
51:53
give them their flowers and I'm that weird nerd
51:55
that's like Snapping a picture and posting it
51:59
on LinkedIn and saying look at my friend He's
52:01
speaking on it or he or she are speaking on this
52:04
topic So I still like going and you know supporting
52:07
friends that are speaking but then the in -between
52:10
stuff right like somebody connecting me to somebody
52:13
for a thoughtful conversation at a conference
52:16
and then that turning into a deeper conversation
52:19
about you know, whatever if it's a district need
52:22
or if it's a solution provider that's coming
52:24
to the US from an international country outside
52:29
of the US. So like just this dynamic of like,
52:32
you know, I sit most days on zoom calls in my
52:36
shed on the side of the house, my shoe shed and
52:40
there's nothing like being in person with folks
52:43
and having dialogue and like it just takes me
52:46
back to even being at like the bridges conference
52:49
that starbridge did right and having like an
52:51
extra half a day and I spent time just walking
52:54
around New York with like two colleagues that
52:56
I generally only see on zoom calls and on text
52:59
message screen or if we're calling each other
53:01
and like we talked about life we talked about
53:04
family we talked about health and like so that
53:06
dynamic like He can't replace it with any kind
53:10
of zoom interaction for sure Yeah, it's definitely
53:13
awesome because I mean like I present with Jeremy
53:15
sometimes but we're in different parts of the
53:16
state so the only time I actually see him in
53:18
person is if we're going to a conference because
53:21
otherwise just virtual and yeah, it's much better
53:23
and a lot of our Most interesting conversations
53:26
have come by way of meeting people at conferences,
53:28
too. So Yeah, the next one here is you posted
53:32
about the the world series of poker. I saw that
53:35
What was that like? doing that. So I've been
53:39
playing poker now for going on probably 25 years.
53:44
Usually home games with friends are going to
53:47
like the local casino in LA pre -kids, right?
53:50
New kids are in the mix, way less of that. But,
53:54
you know, myself and my best man is one of my
53:58
best friends from college. We've been talking
54:00
about going for years and years. And we can never
54:03
justify it. We can never align on dates. And
54:06
now we're adults. And last year we just said,
54:08
like, let's just go. Like, my kids are still
54:11
in school. And for the listeners, nobody here
54:15
is playing in the $10 ,000 buy -in. I'm playing
54:18
in the couple hundred dollar buy -in and trying
54:20
to get into a larger tournament. So while I do
54:24
love the finer things in life, nobody's spending
54:27
$10 ,000 on poker here. just found that like
54:31
I brought it to my wife and I said hey I've been
54:33
talking about this for 20 years like are you
54:36
okay with me going and playing some cards and
54:38
I'll be back at for drop -off duties and dad
54:42
duties and this will be like a Friday Saturday
54:44
Sunday and she said yes so now it's two years
54:46
running proudly I can say this year I actually
54:50
cashed So I got like four hundred and ninety
54:53
ninth place out of like eight thousand or something
54:55
like that. It wasn't a whole lot of money. It
54:57
was like double the buy in. But hey, I cashed
55:00
and like that got myself and my buddy also cash.
55:04
He got like five hundred and fiftieth place.
55:06
So we finished right by each other. But both
55:08
of us were like, OK, like it at least paid for
55:11
the trip and our buy ins. And like it's a nice.
55:15
get away to, and mind you, like for everyone's
55:18
like, Oh Vegas, it must be nice. Like it's 12
55:20
hours of math, right? You're sitting and you're
55:24
attempting to do math for 12 hours and get lucky
55:27
and avoid some bad beats. So great experience.
55:31
If anyone has the opportunity, it's totally worth
55:34
it. I think like it runs for two months. So there's
55:36
like $30 entry games to get in. And there's also
55:40
a hundred thousand dollar game. So it's like
55:42
whatever you choose your adventure. Cool. Yeah.
55:46
Yeah, I just saw some pictures and stuff and
55:48
it looked like you're having a good time and
55:50
I remember you you posted about like how it was
55:52
Your where you placed that or whatever. So So
55:57
fourth question You you also mentioned recently
56:00
about The simplicity of just having a fully stocked
56:04
pantry and how that can bring you happiness So
56:07
the question is if if you're you're rating the
56:09
canter family pantry at midnight, what's the
56:12
what's the first thing you're grabbing? Man,
56:14
I've gotten into a lot of Costco snacks because
56:18
that's two kids lots of snacks all throughout
56:22
plus school snacks but I found that they have
56:25
like all of these like sour gummies that are
56:29
low in sugar for adults. So as much as I buy
56:32
them and I'm like, oh, these would be a good
56:34
snack. No, those are my snacks. Right. So they
56:36
got the like, you know, the unreal bars, which
56:38
are kind of like Snickers or whatever they are
56:41
like peanut butter cups that are low sugar. So
56:43
attempting to, you know, be healthy in my 42nd
56:49
year on this planet as well. So I'd say that
56:52
or like hot Cheetos. I can't get I don't know
56:54
about you. I cannot get away from like spicy
56:56
snacks as well. Yeah, those are always good.
56:59
But yeah, they're definitely a killer as you
57:01
get older. I hit 40 this year, so I can relate.
57:08
All right, so the last question, most important
57:09
question, and always we're told the most difficult
57:12
one is, we're having you keynote for us tomorrow
57:15
at our conference. What's your walk -up song
57:18
that you're choosing? You know, I look at that
57:21
question and it's always like the same Song that
57:24
I would do karaoke with if I was with a group
57:26
of people and I'm like a LA kid I'm a hip -hop
57:30
kid right grew up in the 80s and 90s of like
57:34
all things West Coast East Coast hip -hop I would
57:37
probably say Warren G regulators cuz they're
57:40
like the call for you know backup and whatever
57:43
however, we feel about the song and the lyrics
57:46
but this idea of like, you know calling your
57:50
friends in EdTech space when you need help. And
57:53
like, obviously those were not the lyrics, but
57:55
like that idea of like, you know, getting people
57:58
together and like all rowing in the same direction
58:02
or rowing in the same direction. I'd probably
58:05
say Regulators by Warren Jude. That's a great
58:07
ad. And actually, as you were talking about it
58:10
before you said it, that song popped into my
58:13
head as a potential option. It's like, I wonder
58:15
if you were going to say Regulators. Grey Minds,
58:18
Grey Minds. Yeah, so it'll get added to the the
58:21
integrate this playlist and we'll have that on
58:23
there for sure. So last last thing just to give
58:25
you a chance. Is there anything you want to let
58:28
guests know? Like where can people reach you
58:29
or check out your work? Connect with you? Any
58:32
plugs that you have going on? Yeah, you know,
58:35
if if I don't have you on LinkedIn, you know,
58:39
add me there. That's a good place to get all
58:41
like. You know, on my end, I feel like I do a
58:44
tremendous amount of reading on all things policy
58:47
or solutions or you name it, AI. So I'm constantly
58:51
on there posting. Some of it is my family. Some
58:53
of it is the projects I'm on. Some of it is with
58:55
the companies I work with. Uh, but so LinkedIn
58:58
is a good place. You can find me there, uh, or,
59:01
you know, any ed tech solution providers, if
59:03
they want some more info on what I do, you can
59:05
go to chiefdodo .com. That's my personal website,
59:09
but yeah, however I can be of service to any
59:11
of your listeners like LinkedIn, the website,
59:14
there's an inquiry there. If you're an ed tech
59:15
solution provider, you know, I'll definitely
59:17
ask you some tough questions as you reach out.
59:20
So be prepared, but a lot of that is purely not
59:24
because I'm the best or I have, a lot of it is
59:28
just supply and demand on time. And I have to,
59:31
you know, similar to how you are with how you're
59:34
spending your time, I try to do the same with
59:36
solution providers to make sure that they're
59:38
solving for something and they're already having
59:40
success, evidence, efficacy, all this stuff before
59:43
I say, hey, yeah, let's have a conversation.
59:46
Cool, great. We'll make sure we include the links
59:49
and stuff in the notes too for listeners to check
59:52
out. But Jacob, definitely appreciate you joining
59:55
us and taking the time to talk with us. Of course.
59:57
Thanks for having me. I am appreciative of the
1:00:00
time we spent and hopefully somebody got some
1:00:03
good learnings from this. Thanks for listening
1:00:05
to Integrate This. Want to take your learning
1:00:08
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