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215. A Talk with Father Kelly on Magdala · 4-Freedom Podcast

• 0:00
  For freedom, you set me free. Not for change, not for guilt,
• 0:03
  not for Pharisee. Bracelet the flame, Now I'm
• 0:07
  puffing peace cigars and victory Justified released.
• 0:12
  Welcome to the For Freedom podcast.
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  This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for
• 0:18
  everyday Christians with everyday issues.
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  I ain't. Saved by dress codes, not by
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  what I eat. I'm covered in the
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  righteousness, washed from head to feet.
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  No tally of tradition. No man made code.
• 0:30
  Blood bought my freedom. Now I ride that road.
• 0:32
  They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise.
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  But my prey still ascends past the legalist cries.
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  Christ plus nothing. That's the real math.
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  So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path.
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  He sat with sinners. I'm sitting with Saints, sipping
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  grace from the bottle. No room for face.
• 0:48
  I like one for liberty. Toast to the king.
• 0:51
  Every ash of sermon. Death has lost its sting.
• 0:55
  For freedom He set me free, Not for change, not for guilt, not
• 0:58
  for Pharisee Grace let the flame now puffing, peace, cigars and
• 1:02
  victory justified released. For freedom, he set me free.
• 1:07
  Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee.
• 1:10
  Grace, let the flame now puffing peace, cigars and victory
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  justified, released. Let Grace begin.
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  For freedom. Let me free, not for change.
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  Not for guilt. Not.
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  For Pharisee grace, let the flame.
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  Now here are your hosts, Victor James, Seyfried and Brett
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  Martin. Welcome back to the podcast.
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  We are so excited to have Father even Kelly here with us and he
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  is in Magdala in Israel. And me and Brett, we got to meet
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  him and we were so excited about lining up this interview to be
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  able to share his story and what he's doing there in Israel and
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  how can be an encouragement to you.
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  Welcome to the show, Father Kelly.
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  Will you share your background, your calling into the priesthood
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  and what what led you to serve in the Holy Land?
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  Give us an intro to that. Thank you so much, James, for
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  having me on the show with you guys.
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  And Brett, I missed part of it there.
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  The piece of outer has taken off my head to see out there
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  touring. No worries.
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  Yeah, well, I was raised on a farm in the West of Ireland,
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  milking cows and shearing sheep and castrating calves.
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  You can cut that piece out if you need to.
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  And I was delighted to be there. We were.
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  We didn't have electricity and we didn't have a telephone, and
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  that wasn't by choice as much as by the fortune of where we were.
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  And in a way, we didn't miss it. It was interesting when we
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  needed to get a vet for a car or something they gave me 6 penny
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  piece and I ride my bicycle for 3 1/2 almost 4 miles to the
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  Nortons to make a phone call from there and she died on the
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  phone and then the post office answered and then to connect me
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  to the number in Canvara for the vet.
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  Now two hours later the vet showed up.
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  And so that was that was the life in the farm making butter
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  at home. And then I was blessed to be
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  raised and to be born into a family that practice the faith
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  practice in the sense of believing and also believing in
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  God and praying in the family. And we didn't miss church on
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  Sunday unless there was somebody really sick.
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  We cycled 3 1/2 miles to church when we were little and we had
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  to school also. So I was held back for a year
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  until I was able to. My little sister, my next sister
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  was, she was 5 1/2, I was 6 1/2 and we cycled 3 1/2 miles to
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  school. So that in itself, through the
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  nature in the rain and the wind, we didn't have much snow.
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  The second year we were in school, there was a huge freeze
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  over and I remember we had to break ice on the little, small,
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  little season, the lake we had in order for the cows to get
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  water. And it was that kind of life on
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  the farm. So we didn't go to school that
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  month and there was that total freeze over and that was
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  unusual. And all the memories of the
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  neighbors, the nearest neighbors were almost a mile away.
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  So, I mean, daddy never said be quiet, the neighbors will hear
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  you. For this countryside, we didn't
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  have a tractor or a car. We had a donkey, an old horse
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  that was kind of lazy. And they're in the countryside
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  growing up. And we were blessed with the
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  largest size farm, lots of cows and calves and sheep and lambs,
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  a little bit of tillage. The land was very rocky, a
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  little bit like what you see in the back of the picture here in
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  Mount Our Bell. It's a limestone formation.
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  That's what we had. But we were living more on the
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  flat land with limestone. And we did have hills behind us,
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  more or less the size of Mount Our Bell.
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  And so we, it was just a marvelous way to to be begin
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  growing up and then went to school, grade school, high
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  school. In high school, it was quite
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  demanding and I wanted to quit after three years in high school
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  to be a farmer. Then that's a whole other story.
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  We could talk about that at length, but the of course, the
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  set of circumstances that would need more time to recount.
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  I decided to go back to high school instead of staying at
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  home working with my dad and the farm.
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  I would inherit the farm and I wouldn't be here talking to you
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  now and then. So I went and finished high
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  school and in that course of that, I really got fell in love
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  with physics and sciences and and math.
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  And that was my big, big hobby. I still helped out a lot on the
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  farm, but there was a lot of school work to do.
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  We, my sister and I, were in the same class since we had started
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  out that early together and she's now a doctor.
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  And so she was also very academically motivated.
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  And that was an environment then of great mutual stimulation.
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  And so the environment was also healthy in our time.
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  You know, we had a three day retreat in the school and there
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  was a visiting priest camp to do the retreat.
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  And some of the bad boys were out in the shed and they smoked
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  a cigarette in the bicycle shed. But most everybody of 240 boys
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  kept silence in the school. It's amazing.
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  You know, it wasn't forced. It was, it was enforced in a
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  way, but it wasn't, it wasn't pressurized.
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  It was people wanted also that we were motivated to pray and at
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  least a lot of the people, I think.
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  And then priest showed up in the school once, and I still
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  remember that it was September 1973 and was our beginning of
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  our last year of high school. And he was from Mexico and he
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  spoke about a personal passionate love for Jesus, spoke
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  about winning the word for Christ.
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  And he spoke about studies to be able to speak to a world that
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  didn't want to hear about God. But it was very agnostic,
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  materialistic atheism was very strong in the Western world at
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  that time. And I just thought, wow, I
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  wanted to study physics. Maybe this is the way to get
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  into a top physics university. And I just put down sending more
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  information. But it's funny when years later
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  I was telling the story to two of my sisters, my next two
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  sisters, that I have a brother and a little sister, or there
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  were five of us, and my second sister piped up and she said, I
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  remember that evening very much. And you never stopped talking
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  about this Mexican priest. You were turned on.
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  So somehow the Lord had had hooked me, you know, for this
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  vocation to leave everything and follow Christ with no other
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  expectation than Christ himself, which is the greatest
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  expectation. And then the year went by and
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  academic studies and there's a lot more than little pieces to
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  tell the story there. We'll skip over that for now.
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  And so then in the summer came around, I finished the exams, we
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  did a second set of exams, some of us for a better ranking to
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  get into universities. And I had a place for the
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  university study physics and everything.
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  But my decision was made. I was going to be a priest.
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  And so I joined the innovation in Dublin two years of a little
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  bit like Paul went going into Arabia after his conversion to
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  soak up the great gift he had received, the grace he had
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  received to do that complete reorientation of his mind from
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  persecuting Christians to be a such a great apostle for Jesus.
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  And after two years we make our vows poverty, not to own
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  anything chastity to dedicate our heart consecrated completely
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  to the law of Christ in his church.
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  And then obedience, which is the toughest one, because that's
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  concerning our will to lay down, our will to do whatever the
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  church wants me to do, the whatever position, whatever
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  ministry they I've been required to do.
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  And then to follow Christ who was obedient unto death for our
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  salvation. And so that's the logic of that
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  and living in a community. And so that those two years were
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  about getting into that new mentality.
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  And then following that, I was studied a year in Salamanca and
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  Spain and humanities, especially Latin and Greek, which I
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  already, I already had Latin in high school and then Tasiger
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  Greek, and then also rhetoric and writing for this, preparing
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  the mind and the abilities, the talents from ministry and then
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  also learning Italian to be ready to go to study in Rome.
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  And there I was, did a degree in philosophy and then I was sent
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  to Michigan and I was in youth ministry in Michigan and
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  teaching religion in a high school, freshman, sophomores,
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  and the feeder schools also doing programs for the other
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  kids, junior high kids. And then I was four years, and
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  that was supposed to be 3 originally with the
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  circumstances made at 4:00. And then I was asked to do
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  another job to look for some funds for the seminaries and for
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  the work we're doing with the Maya Indians in southern Mexico.
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  And so I was an extra year there.
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  So I had five years there in the States and I was sent back to
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  that was all over the country. Then I went to Rome to to my
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  theology, and I was. Already in the Priest in 1980. 7
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  So that's 38 years ago, that's Christmas when I'm 52 years in
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  the congregation, in the community, living my life for
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  Christ. Never got a paycheck for me.
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  We lived a shared life and where everybody has everything in
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  common. And it's a great way.
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  Even this, like this shirt, nobody is going to use it, but I
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  don't own it. So it's for my youth, for my
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  ministry. And the only thing I own is
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  actually a cross, the crucifix to remember what Jesus did, the
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  love he had for me. That's the only position I have
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  on this earth I have with a lot of books and nobody's going to
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  use my underwear. But it's just, it's like, uh,
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  keep training the mind to be in love with Christ.
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  So this is first of all my path. And then I was assigned after my
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  ordination actually to the US, but there were some issues with
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  the visa, getting it all processed.
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  And I'm kind of a restless guy. So I ended up starting our work
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  in Central Europe and I was in Austria, Germany, Austria and
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  Hungary doing a lot of work all over that here, region, Central
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  Europe. I was when the communism fell
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  down, broke down. And so I was going from
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  Amsterdam to Budapest and Hungary.
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  And I even organized a group of kids from Moscow to Rome for a
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  pilgrimage. And so it was an incredible
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  time. Also in Europe.
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  There was a whole new springtime of liberty and also a huge
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  challenge to spread the gospel because Europe has been very
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  developed and also sometimes very far away from Jesus and
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  certain aspects of the life and the culture.
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  And then the next thing that happened was, umm, I was called
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  back to the US and then I was in New York.
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  That was my base headquarters. And I used to hear confessions
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  in the Twin Towers. So I knew a lot of people on
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  9/11. I was three days on the streets
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  with people in New York and Manhattan.
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  It was an incredible, it was an amazing experience.
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  You know, you have such diversity in a place like
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  Manhattan, so many extreme, so many different types of
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  populations. And that those days you could
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  say that everybody was a brother of everybody else in the system.
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  Everybody else. It was just like a leveling
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  moment. You know, you have Shakespeare
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  with a Shakespeare who writes a savage about death.
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  The leveler. Maybe it wasn't Shakespeare.
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  Who was it? We did that one in high school,
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  and that event of 911 was a leveler.
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  Everybody was in the same boat, and it was an amazing age.
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  We could do a podcast just about that.
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  And then the next thing that happened, I was assigned to the
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  youth work in the Ohio Valley through adult ministry for youth
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  work. And I was chaplain, Northern
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  Kentucky University, and my boss was a Baptist pastor.
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  Why? Because he was the longest
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  standing pastor there. And I was new and there were
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  about 6 or 8 different types of pastors there.
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  And so he was the coordinator of our team also in relation to
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  getting interest pushed with the administration of the university
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  and so on. And then I was called to come
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  here to the Holy Land in 2006. And I probably got the
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  assignment 20 years ago in May. And the Hezbollah war broke out
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  in July. So they said don't come, there's
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  nothing to do, there are no pilgrims, stay there and do
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  something useful. And then I got assigned to a
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  parish in Phoenix, just outside of Phoenix and Queen Creek.
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  So I told people I was up the Creek with many paddles and I
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  was there for until January. And I got here in January 2007.
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  And the Phoenix experience was a marvelous experience because I
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  had never done parish ministry. And I work obviously with a lot
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  of priests who come here for renewal, for a treat.
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  And it's good to have had that experience.
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  And also the experience of living in the desert of the
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  Saguaro cactus out in Arizona, hiking in the desert numerously
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  every week. It was just absolutely an
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  amazing, delightful. It just opened up a whole other
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  world that I wasn't familiar with.
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  So then why was I called to the Holy Land?
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  Because our community was entrusted with the major
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  responsibility for a guest house in Jerusalem, which the Vatican
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  has stepped in to fill a gap in administration, and they need
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  somebody to do this. Our community was assigned to
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  that role as a third generation of responsibility for that.
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  And then I was hopped into that position and they asked me to do
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  it. And there I was in Jerusalem
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  learning this 20 years ago, almost 19 years ago this past
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  January, and learning this whole milieu and getting familiar with
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  it and being totally surprised. I'd often drink, you know, maybe
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  sometime when I'd be 25 years or a day that get to come here for
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  a week to have a pilgrimage. You know, I ended up being here
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  already a number of years each time I got my 25th anniversary.
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  So it's amazing the how Providence works in our lives.
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  Just what Jesus said, you know, Peter said to him, we've given
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  up everything for you. What do we get?
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  And he's. At a hundredfold.
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  In this life and eternal life and a life to come and I can
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  honestly say that I have experienced that goodness of
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  God, that generosity of God, that absolute delightful
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  company. And it doesn't mean that we're,
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  there were no problems or difficulties even today,
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  challenges, the biggest challenges are sometimes inside
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  our own selves, struggling, wrestling with things, and it
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  cannot. There can also be difficulties
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  in the environment and even in the community, different issues
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  that have to be dealt with that aren't easy.
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  You prefer that they don't exist.
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  But that's part of where God is also molding us and shaping us
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  and forming us in all of these challenges.
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  So here I am talking to you today, talking to some Baptists.
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  That's amazing. Isn't the Catholic priest
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  talking to Baptists? I love it.
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  That's great. Yeah, Yeah.
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  Well, Father Kelly, I'll tell you your presentation, your talk
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  with our group was many people's favorite part of our trip.
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  I know it was like right up there at the top of my list.
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  We thank you for taking the time with us.
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  My favorite, favorite part was whenever you got onto my wife
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  for talking, I was like, I was like, I was like, yeah, get her
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  brother, get her. And but that was.
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  What was that? I didn't understand what you're
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  saying there. You get you got onto my wife for
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  talking and I was like. Yes.
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  Like you said, you said I'll, I'll, I'll start talking when
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  you get done because what you're saying is more important than
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  me. And I was like, yes, get her,
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  she needs it. I said with a small little bit
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  of nuance. It was a little bit more finesse
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  Now, the way you're reporting in breath, I hope no ladies are
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  listening to that the way you. I always say that I love to hear
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  the marvelous scenes the others are saying and I wouldn't like
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  to miss them, so I won't be talking while they're speaking.
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  But if if they ever notice that I am not speaking, it's because
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  people like your wife have very important things to see and I
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  wouldn't want to miss that for the world or.
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  Exactly the gentle, for you were rebuking, reproving and
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  correcting. No, no, no.
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  No, no, no. No, no, no.
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  I was expressing my extreme appreciation and admiration for
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  such incredibly profound thought that was so valuable to the
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  whole group. Yes, yes, I love it.
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  Well, Amen. Well, let me ask you what what
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  drew you an amygdala to working on the Sea of Galilee?
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  What does that mean to you? How does that?
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  How was that journey evolved over the years?
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  Thank you, Brad. By the way, it's when it's
• 17:13
  necessary, I can also give a public apology to your wife even
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  here on the, on the, on this program.
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  So we honor women here in Magdalene in a very special way
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  because of Magdalene, Mary Magdalene.
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  So it's one of our priority program points that women here
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  are treasure. They're front and center.
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  And this is important because without woman, we wouldn't be
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  here without my mom, without my grandma, 2 grandmas, my grand,
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  my dad's mother's passed away when he was two years old.
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  So I never knew her, but still I owe her so much.
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  And my dad doesn't remember anything because she died in the
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  great flu of 19/18/1919. She was two years old.
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  And so, you know, it's, it's amazing the what women have done
• 17:56
  in our lives. And then my three sisters,
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  they're amazing, amazing, amazing people.
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  And so it's, it's a great gift. So we're very happy to put women
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  front and center in Magdala. It's God put us here.
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  And this is, this is a great deal.
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  And tell me your question again, I got off track.
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  What drew you in a Mangala and working on the Sea of Galilee
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  and how has that evolved over the years?
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  Well, it was a bus that drew me, but not like a tractor and a
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  trailer. I was sitting up on a SO, So I
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  was 10 years working in Jerusalem, officially at the
• 18:33
  vice director of Notre Dame Jerusalem Guest Center.
• 18:36
  Maybe some of your listeners have had a meal up on the
• 18:38
  rooftop restaurant. That's a view out over the city
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  of Jerusalem, a magnificent place with a lot of history, a
• 18:43
  lot of wonderful service there. But the whole time I was also
• 18:46
  working on this project together with Father Juan Solana, who was
• 18:49
  spearheading it. And then at some point, I will
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  tell you the exact story. I often did a lot of trips,
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  especially to the US, to rouse awareness and support for Magda
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  level. And at one point, about 10 years
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  ago, there was this consultant who came by and he said, you
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  know, you guys, I'm watching what you're doing.
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  But I think why are you? Going around the world to drill
• 19:11
  up support when you're already getting thousands here every
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  month. And nobody's talking to them.
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  So then I stopped flying around the US and was the time for a
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  rethink how we're going to be here.
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  So I started living here because of that.
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  To take care of all the surge of pilgrims that were coming here
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  to meet them, to encounter them, to guide them here, to be
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  available for them when they come, to answer their questions,
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  to give them encouragement. All the work with pilgrims as
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  you, as you, as you go along, you know.
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  Love. It that was the main thing that
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  brought me here. If if that's helpful.
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  So maybe the question also begs another question earlier
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  previous questions, why do we end up in Magdala as a
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  community? And that question is connected
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  to the we were first of all, our community was kind of they twist
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  our arm to come to do this because it wasn't our line of
• 19:57
  service. We're very much into long term
• 20:00
  accompaniment of people developing their talent to be
• 20:03
  great. Ambassadors of Christ in the
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  world, wherever they are, in the, in the workplace, at home,
• 20:08
  the family and the community. And we figured that just being
• 20:12
  with people for a week in the pilgrims in the Holy Land was
• 20:14
  just too short a time for doing continuous work.
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  But then when we were kind of pressured into here and that
• 20:21
  great principle of obedience, you know, the, the our church
• 20:25
  superior said, we need you to come and help.
• 20:27
  So our community said yes. Then they send me a letter and
• 20:30
  say, you come and help, OK, I come and help and then hear, you
• 20:34
  know, through different voices that even that consultant, that
• 20:36
  was a very important moment because he brought clarity to
• 20:39
  the discernment that we needed to make at this new moment of
• 20:43
  development. So when we got to Jerusalem,
• 20:45
  first it was just Notre Dame, but then it was very quickly to
• 20:48
  learn that the Galilee was super important for pilgrims.
• 20:52
  And right now you're looking out at Galilee here behind me.
• 20:55
  This is Mount Arbell, and this over here is the Sea of Galilee.
• 20:58
  That blue there in the background, that's the Sea of
• 20:59
  Galilee. And actually Magla's right
• 21:02
  behind my head there, if you cut a hole through that stone would
• 21:04
  be Magla. And so, and we realized that we
• 21:09
  needed to be here because this is where Jesus finished his
• 21:11
  public life. This is get Nazareth.
• 21:13
  It's only 20 minutes by car if there's no traffic from here.
• 21:16
  And that's where Jesus been 30 years of his life.
• 21:18
  And that's where the Annunciation happened.
• 21:20
  The Angel Gabriel comes and asks that little teenage girl, hey,
• 21:22
  do you want to be the mother of, of the Son of God?
• 21:25
  You know, the big deal. And then this is Canaan is here
• 21:28
  and Capernaum is here, the core of Jesus life.
• 21:30
  So we realized very soon that we needed to come here.
• 21:34
  And then the, the concept of Notre Dame is very interesting
• 21:37
  because everybody goes to Notre Dame.
• 21:39
  And so all the Christian spectrum goes there.
• 21:41
  And it's, it's a wonderful place, historic.
• 21:44
  It's about 140 years old now. And then even Muslims and Jews
• 21:49
  go there and all the Christians. So then we figured maybe the
• 21:55
  concept we could do in Galilee was to develop a place that
• 21:58
  would be open to everybody and especially to all the Christians
• 22:05
  to stay here. And then when we started to
• 22:09
  develop Magla, we found a synagogue from the time of
• 22:13
  Jesus. So now we had something, an
• 22:16
  extraordinary treasure for the Jewish people that turns out to
• 22:19
  be an extraordinary treasure for us Christians.
• 22:23
  Those who follow Jesus also have a connection to Jesus.
• 22:25
  So this became then a kind of a bridge.
• 22:28
  And then all the workers here, it's amazing.
• 22:31
  It's like a cross section of workers.
• 22:34
  We have Arab and Jewish Israelis working here, and the Arabs
• 22:39
  break down into Druze, which is a different religion than Islam.
• 22:43
  Muslim workers and Christian Arabs were Israeli citizens and
• 22:50
  thanks. And we have Jewish people
• 22:51
  working here and atheism, agnostics as well.
• 22:55
  And so there, there's a marvelous spirit here, living
• 22:59
  together and working together. And that in itself is a
• 23:01
  wonderful testimony, this type of community that's living for a
• 23:06
  higher ideal. So why do I, why do we come here
• 23:11
  then? Well, because of we had this
• 23:13
  idea to develop the centre, then the Lord blessed it with so many
• 23:16
  things that we could never have imagined.
• 23:17
  So it's clear that the Lord had this plan at the end of the day,
• 23:20
  say, why do I come to Manly? Well, because the Lord wanted
• 23:22
  it, but not because he sent me a WhatsApp message or a fax or an
• 23:25
  e-mail, but just through the providential development and
• 23:29
  discernment of our service here, how we could best serve the
• 23:33
  pilgrims who come to know Jesus better, to walk in Jesus
• 23:35
  footsteps, to be there where he taught.
• 23:39
  Uh, This is why we follow these steps.
• 23:42
  And so in a certain sense, we didn't plan them.
• 23:45
  They're God's Providence in our lives.
• 23:47
  Like what happens when a couple gets married and they didn't
• 23:50
  plan that the child would be this way or that way that you
• 23:53
  don't tell when the child is in the womb.
• 23:54
  That's going to go to Harvard or MIT or and become a Carpenter.
• 23:58
  There's so much you wait for a Providence to unfold in your
• 24:01
  lives. It's like a little plant growing
• 24:02
  and then it flowers and then it bears fruit or process of
• 24:06
  ripening. So in that sense, it's like life
• 24:08
  itself, you know? That's great.
• 24:11
  So Magdala, an ancient city, an ancient place.
• 24:15
  We, we know it's in scripture in two different locations in
• 24:19
  Matthew 15. And then Mark, I believe it's
• 24:22
  Mark 5, Mark 8 it is and it's, it's recorded in history.
• 24:27
  Josephus Flavius talks about Magdala, but for years, you
• 24:31
  know, we, we didn't know where it was at until just a couple of
• 24:34
  decades ago. How do you explain the
• 24:38
  historical, the spiritual importance to someone who's
• 24:42
  never been here? How do you begin to say, listen,
• 24:45
  this is this is where Jesus was at.
• 24:47
  We know he came here. We Mayor Magdalen's from here.
• 24:49
  He went to all the the region and taught in the synagogues all
• 24:53
  across the region of Galilee. But people never been there and
• 24:57
  the vast majority of probably our listeners may never get a
• 25:00
  chance to go there. How, how do we talk about the
• 25:02
  importance of Magdala in in that sense?
• 25:07
  Well, in a way it's important and it's a way, in a way of I'm
• 25:10
  just like shooting myself in the foot.
• 25:11
  It's not that important. You know, you say, how do you
• 25:15
  explain colors to a blind man? Like the difference between red
• 25:20
  and green and turquoise and yellow and Gray?
• 25:25
  You know, what's the guy imagining?
• 25:26
  He can't even tell us what he's imagining because we don't know
• 25:29
  how he is interpreting those realities.
• 25:31
  So and a blind man can still be a great St. a great scholar, a
• 25:36
  great human being who does a lot of good because he's missing 1
• 25:39
  little thing. So in one sense, I would just
• 25:42
  put things into perspective. The most important thing is that
• 25:45
  we learn to love God with all our heart and all our soul and
• 25:48
  all our strength and all our mind.
• 25:50
  And then if we're blessed with the grace of knowing Jesus, then
• 25:53
  to follow Jesus, to love him and.
• 25:56
  We can do that anywhere. Every time, every day,
• 26:00
  everywhere, with every person. And this is really the core
• 26:04
  stuff. So then to come to the Holy Land
• 26:08
  has great value. I think Americans could relate
• 26:12
  to going to the Super Bowl or to the Hall of Fame for football
• 26:17
  would even be better. And then you go through all the
• 26:19
  history and you are, you go to the home of Abraham Lincoln or
• 26:24
  George Washington or Martin Luther King or, you know, you
• 26:28
  say, wow, and you've pondered their life and they have great
• 26:31
  significance for the history of the US.
• 26:34
  But then you come to and going to the place where Jesus was
• 26:38
  walking around where, where he called the first disciples,
• 26:45
  where Mary Magdalene had a lot of issues.
• 26:48
  You know, 7 demons is a big big big topic and and she's
• 26:52
  delivered and she becomes the 1st.
• 26:53
  Witness of the Resurrection. And this is the reason why we
• 26:58
  emphasize Magala so much in the the women's part of Magala.
• 27:01
  She is, she's related here, the first witness of Jesus arisen
• 27:05
  from the dead, and he sent her to go to the other apostles.
• 27:09
  And the word to send in Greek is apostolain.
• 27:12
  And somebody who has sent in a misery, an ambassador, is called
• 27:17
  apostolos in masculine and apostola in feminine.
• 27:22
  So Jesus, since heart, the breaking news, have you ever
• 27:27
  heard of breaking news that morning?
• 27:29
  That was the ultimate breaking news for humanity.
• 27:33
  There was no breaking news ever like that that he rose from the
• 27:36
  dead. Maybe the other one that would
• 27:38
  match it would be Pentecost. Maybe also the Angel Gabriel
• 27:41
  telling Mary she's going to be the son, but the mother, her son
• 27:44
  is going to be the eternal word of God, the Son of God.
• 27:47
  You know, that's breaking news that this is the center of
• 27:50
  history, man. Yeah.
• 27:51
  So then you come here and, OK, you get excited as Americans
• 27:55
  maybe going to something historical, the Statue of
• 27:59
  Liberty or those places that were so meaningful for so many
• 28:04
  families arriving from poverty to the shores of America, and
• 28:07
  they get checked in. It's in Long Island to some big
• 28:12
  office place there for immigrants.
• 28:14
  And so the the great grandchildren go back and check
• 28:16
  it out. But to come here and say, wow,
• 28:18
  2000 years ago, you know that in today we're now 26.
• 28:22
  So in seven years we'll be celebrating the second
• 28:25
  Millennium of Jesus work of salvation and and you know, 2000
• 28:32
  years. I remember this morning I was
• 28:34
  sharing with the group here about a coin we have near the
• 28:37
  megalastone. Maybe I did that for you guys
• 28:40
  and the coin was mentioned in the year 29 and you asked them
• 28:42
  who was alive in the year 29. And then the coin is written
• 28:46
  Tiberius, Tiberius. Tiberius is 4 miles from here
• 28:51
  just South of us. And then the other part on the
• 28:54
  other side of the coin is written Hirodu Tetra who?
• 28:57
  Herod the Tetrarch. So Tiberius and Herod the
• 28:59
  Tetrarch and who was alive at that time.
• 29:02
  And you're here for all of that John the Baptist.
• 29:04
  And he clips off his head. You know, you're here where all
• 29:08
  this, this story unfolds. You're here where Jesus calls
• 29:12
  all of his disciples, where he's walking across Galilee, a
• 29:15
  crisscrossing Galilee the whole time.
• 29:17
  And you know, the teachings are very important in the gospel and
• 29:21
  all the words, but actually you've to also ponder.
• 29:23
  What's going on? While he's teaching, No, sorry,
• 29:26
  while he's walking. And there's one story that I
• 29:29
  love to tell. Did you see the mosaic map we
• 29:31
  have here with 1.6 million storms?
• 29:34
  It's a, a big circle in the just between the Duke and Altom and
• 29:39
  the restaurant we're building. And it's and maybe you didn't
• 29:42
  get to see it because there's so much to see.
• 29:44
  And if you have an hour, you don't get to see it at all.
• 29:47
  Well, in this map we also have it extended beyond Galilee, up
• 29:51
  to Tyre and Sidon in Lebanon. And we have it extended to
• 29:56
  pointing towards Jerusalem, to the Golanitis, which is the
• 30:00
  Golan today, to the capolis, which is down as far as
• 30:03
  Philadelphia. Doesn't do it all, just a piece
• 30:05
  of it. And it says in the Gospel that
• 30:08
  Jesus remember the time the lady with the crumbs under the table,
• 30:11
  her daughter she wanted healed or crudely liberated.
• 30:14
  And it says in 3 or 4 words, Jesus went from there and his
• 30:18
  next moment is in the Decapolis and he has to cross all across
• 30:21
  Lebanon. All across Galilee.
• 30:23
  Down into the Decapolis, who knows how far down and there's
• 30:28
  no more, nothing more is said about that.
• 30:30
  But what happened in that trip in terms of contacts between the
• 30:34
  disciples, fights they had, tensions they had, and just
• 30:38
  watching Jesus, the way he was keeping his calm and then they
• 30:41
  were being transformed. It's like kids, you know, on a
• 30:43
  trip, three day trip across America with the kids and
• 30:46
  they're fighting in the back of the car and when are we going to
• 30:48
  get there? That whole that, that whole is
• 30:51
  that's formational for the kids. They have to learn patients.
• 30:54
  They have to learn to survive in moments that aren't
• 30:57
  uncomfortable. They would like to get out of
• 30:58
  the car. No, we just have to keep driving
• 31:00
  for another 3 hours. You know, it's the, the
• 31:03
  practical daily life. And to come here and to realize
• 31:05
  this is where all this happened. The disciples get up in the
• 31:09
  morning, they can't find Jesus. They're out in the hills looking
• 31:12
  for him because they realize that he looks for a lonely place
• 31:14
  to pray. And now they're out there and
• 31:16
  we're walking those places here. You know, it's, you're touching
• 31:22
  it, you're, you're seeing it. And that much changed here in
• 31:24
  the topography since Jesus. And this mountain didn't change
• 31:27
  much. Maybe there was a bit more
• 31:29
  eroded with the rains and the storms, but it's basically the
• 31:33
  same mountain. Jesus saw what you're looking up
• 31:35
  right behind my head there. The Sea of Galilee didn't move.
• 31:42
  The Mount of Olives didn't move in Jerusalem.
• 31:44
  So it's it's a big deal. Yeah, in the excavation in
• 31:49
  Magdala, the the first sister synagogue, that's there where
• 31:53
  the Magdala stone is AT and the Magdala stone, I think that's
• 31:57
  important as well. How did those two things shape
• 32:00
  the site and shape the importance of this region?
• 32:05
  He had told a story while we were there about, I think it was
• 32:09
  some philosopher that said, you know, there were no synagogues.
• 32:12
  There was no such thing as a synagogue.
• 32:14
  And then now we have 12 of them. So hear that a little bit, and
• 32:17
  then Brett's going to transition to another talk about Mary
• 32:21
  Magdalene a little. Bit sure.
• 32:23
  So the, the discovery of the synagogue was very important
• 32:28
  because we actually in that place had planned a Chapel where
• 32:35
  we could have be shared by all Christians, you know, the
• 32:39
  goodwill attitude. So any Christian group could
• 32:42
  come and have a place to pray, open hospitality.
• 32:45
  Therefore pray Chapel hospitality, right?
• 32:48
  And that's where we found the synagogue.
• 32:51
  So let's say we have goodwill and we're listening to Jesus
• 32:54
  Prayer, the Last Supper. May they all be one Father as
• 32:56
  you and I are one, so the world will believe.
• 33:00
  That's that's wonderful. And it's a fantastic motivation
• 33:04
  as Jesus living word that's pushing it today.
• 33:07
  But then we we come and we find a synagogue from the time of
• 33:10
  Jesus. And a lot of guides say that
• 33:13
  Jesus was in the synagogue. I never say that because we lost
• 33:15
  all the videos. But then the probability is
• 33:21
  huge. Jesus walks through this area.
• 33:26
  He teaches in the synagogues and every Shabbat we found a second
• 33:29
  synagogue 100 and 63170 yards away from this synagogue.
• 33:33
  So we have two synagogues which are contemporary from the 1st
• 33:36
  century before temple destruction in in Galilee.
• 33:39
  So until the 1990s, as you're mentioning, James, there was a
• 33:43
  theory by a bunch of professors that there were no such things
• 33:47
  as synagogues until after temple destruction.
• 33:50
  Now if there are no synagogues on the laughter temple
• 33:52
  destruction, that raised a huge credibility question about the
• 33:56
  gospel because the gospel claims that Jesus taught in synagogues
• 34:00
  every Shabbat, every Saturday and healed the sick there and
• 34:05
  then. By the time we found ours, ours
• 34:08
  was number 7. And now there are 12 at least,
• 34:13
  which are recognized by the Israeli Antiquities Authority as
• 34:17
  synagogues and their pre temple destruction, their 1st century
• 34:21
  synagogues. And so this is a pretty
• 34:24
  significant discovery because when you see these kind of
• 34:27
  facts, you can't argue against it.
• 34:29
  So the synagogue still exist. And then another thing is our
• 34:31
  synagogue is very beautiful. By the way, when is the first
• 34:34
  time in your life, James, that you ever heard the Catholic
• 34:37
  precinct, our synagogue? Never.
• 34:41
  Think about it. And now if you meet some Jewish
• 34:44
  folks on the street there in North Carolina and you're get
• 34:47
  talking, you may be having a coffee together or something, a
• 34:49
  nice conversation. And then you say, oh, by the
• 34:52
  way, I was in Galilee recently. Oh, by the way, hey, Mr. Jewish
• 34:55
  person, have you seen our synagogue?
• 35:01
  You know this. This changes the conversation
• 35:03
  and the Jewish. Guy looks at you and say what?
• 35:05
  Do you mean you're, you're a Baptist, you're a Christian?
• 35:06
  What's going on here? And it starts the whole
• 35:09
  conversation about shared spaces.
• 35:12
  There's no question about that. Our synagogue is one of the
• 35:15
  greatest treasures that has been uncovered recently of Jewish
• 35:18
  culture, Jewish history. But on the other hand, it's also
• 35:22
  a treasure for us because Jesus spoke and healed the sick in the
• 35:26
  synagogues of Galilee. That's extraordinary.
• 35:30
  And to be able to have to witness that, to be there, just
• 35:36
  look in the seats there to think you're sitting down in the
• 35:38
  synagogue and your family's there with you.
• 35:41
  And maybe Jesus just came into the synagogue and there he is
• 35:45
  teaching. And then by little he's engaging
• 35:50
  all the people there. Eye contact.
• 35:53
  And then the next moment you realize he's looking at your
• 35:56
  eyes and you're looking into Jesus eyes for the first time in
• 35:59
  your life. And maybe you notice a question
• 36:02
  arising in your heart and you know the question is coming from
• 36:08
  Jesus and then the question simply is what would you like me
• 36:14
  to do for you now? So the very fact of having a 1st
• 36:20
  century synagogue on site, which is very unusual.
• 36:24
  Did you guys stay here with us or did you just come to visit?
• 36:27
  We just can't visit. Yeah, but we have many Baptist
• 36:31
  groups staying here for two or three days and then let's say
• 36:33
  they have a little insomnia because of jet lag or whatever.
• 36:35
  They take their Bible to go down, to go down beside the
• 36:39
  synagogue and they open their Bible and pray a Psalm right
• 36:42
  there where, you know, where people were there 2000 years
• 36:47
  ago. So there's a there's a gift in
• 36:50
  that. There's a gift that a lot of
• 36:52
  people are plagued in our culture by a type of skepticism,
• 36:57
  culture of doubt, questioning. And it's OK to question and it's
• 37:04
  OK to have doubts. And it's you can be skeptical,
• 37:07
  but when you come here to the holiday and say, wow, this Sea
• 37:09
  of Galilee. You should put.
• 37:10
  Your finger in it gets wet. It's real.
• 37:12
  It's not plastic, it's not painted.
• 37:14
  It's for really this, this the volume of the Sea of Galilee,
• 37:18
  the like the space it occupies. That's for real.
• 37:21
  Capernaum has archaeology for real.
• 37:23
  This synagogue is for real. There are houses, there are fish
• 37:26
  crossing infrastructure according to the theory of the
• 37:28
  archaeologists. We've discovered ritual baths
• 37:31
  that we've discovered. This is a village.
• 37:34
  This is like almost a city. And this is where real people
• 37:38
  who came in and out doorways that are still there today at
• 37:41
  thresholds, colors painted on the wall, somebody painted that
• 37:45
  mosaics and the floor in the synagogue, somebody did that.
• 37:49
  So it becomes like you're in the living room of the people of
• 37:53
  2000 years ago, their community living room, that's their
• 37:55
  synagogue. That's where they're studying
• 37:59
  Torah. That's where Jesus went on
• 38:01
  Saturdays on Shabbat to, to teach the word of God, to
• 38:05
  proclaim the Kingdom is near, the Kingdom is among us, it's
• 38:09
  here, it's already started, the king is here.
• 38:12
  So if the king is here, the king is here.
• 38:16
  One of the things that I really love about the Pilgrimage Center
• 38:21
  is its focus on women and the role of women in God's plan in
• 38:26
  Scripture and the Gospel. I'll tell you one more story
• 38:29
  about my wife. A good one you.
• 38:34
  You brought her up to point the finger and take the picture by
• 38:41
  the woman who touched the hem of Jesus's garment and took that
• 38:45
  picture of her and prayed that prayer.
• 38:48
  And that meant a lot to her. This past Sunday morning we had
• 38:51
  a reflection service of for our people that went on the trip.
• 38:57
  And in her portion she played, she played that prayer that she
• 39:02
  prayed over her and that meant a lot to her.
• 39:04
  And in fact, she wanted me to tell you this, that recently, in
• 39:08
  the past few days, she had a medical procedure that she was
• 39:13
  very nervous about. And she prayed the prayer that
• 39:17
  you prayed, and it comforted her and it meant a lot to her.
• 39:22
  And so we want to thank you for that.
• 39:24
  Which brings me to the next question, What role does the
• 39:28
  story, And you touched on this a little bit already, but what
• 39:30
  role does the story of Mary Magdalene play in the life and
• 39:35
  identity of this place? Well, I would say let's look at
• 39:40
  Mary Magdon in Scripture, first of all.
• 39:43
  And so you have lots of stuff in people's heads nowadays because
• 39:46
  of Dan Brown and all his writings and other people's
• 39:50
  theories about Mary Magdon. But let's look at the
• 39:52
  scriptures. And I find that there are like 5
• 39:54
  statements that we find in the gospels about Mary Magdon.
• 39:58
  First statement. She had a lot of issues.
• 40:00
  Just say it like that, a lot of difficult issues.
• 40:04
  You can. I'm just leaving the seven
• 40:06
  demons in whatever forum they were active.
• 40:09
  If you're angry with somebody and you want to get revenge, are
• 40:13
  you going to sleep well at night if it's a very serious deal that
• 40:16
  you're angry about and want to do revenge for?
• 40:20
  And so that's the that's not a good spirit inside of you.
• 40:22
  And this is just doing a minimal approach to this text, OK.
• 40:26
  And then all the other major issues that we can have of envy,
• 40:31
  of jealousy, of insecurity, of anxiety, of impatience, so, so
• 40:38
  many things that can plague. US.
• 40:40
  And make our family life a wreck and wreck.
• 40:43
  It can wreck our work environment, can wreck our
• 40:46
  society, especially if people are in leadership and they have
• 40:48
  these issues. So Mary Baggin had major issues
• 40:51
  #1 #2 she finds in Jesus the solution for her issues.
• 40:58
  They're resolved. She is freed, liberated #3 she
• 41:07
  is forever grateful. And this shows up that she is
• 41:13
  faithful even to Calvary when most of the guys are gone.
• 41:20
  Before this, she has been generously supporting Jesus,
• 41:23
  men. So she's the top of the list of
• 41:25
  the supporters and all these women are supporting Jesus.
• 41:30
  Luke chapter 8, verse 3, they're supporting Jesus from their
• 41:34
  treasure, from their substance, from their means, from their
• 41:36
  wealth. And after what we found in
• 41:40
  Magda, you can't say there wasn't wealth in Magda.
• 41:43
  And there's a lot more connections.
• 41:44
  If you look at the gospel in Luke chapter 8, verse three, it
• 41:47
  says that's Jesus going around Galilee with the 12 and with the
• 41:51
  women who are freed, liberated, or healed.
• 41:53
  And among them it says Mary Magdalene, Suzanna, Johanna, and
• 41:57
  many others, many others. That's a lot of women and these
• 42:01
  women are supporting Jesus from their wealth.
• 42:04
  And one of the people is Johanna and she's the wife of Chusa and
• 42:07
  Chusa is the head manager of Herod Antipaths.
• 42:10
  That means Herod is very busy with all the ladies he has to
• 42:13
  take care of and all the parties he has to run.
• 42:15
  So he has this guy Chusa in charge of all.
• 42:18
  He's like his Prime Minister. And this guy, it's wife is a
• 42:21
  disciple of Jesus. So Jesus reaching the top level
• 42:23
  of society. But Mary man was always listed
• 42:25
  before her. So Mary Madam is a very
• 42:29
  significant date in the society and she's giving everything she
• 42:33
  can to support Jesus community to be she's already being an
• 42:37
  apostle of the community. And then we go from there to the
• 42:41
  crucifixion and she's faithfully there at the cross.
• 42:46
  And so it's no wonder then that Jesus calls her.
• 42:48
  It is, it's still a wonder, but it's amazing that Jesus calls
• 42:51
  her to be the first witness. Providence has heard a role as
• 42:55
  the first witness for the resurrection and Jesus sends her
• 42:59
  makes her an apostle to the apostles to send as apostolate
• 43:03
  and I mentioned this nothing already to send her to be an
• 43:06
  apostle to the apostles. This is extraordinary.
• 43:09
  This is amazing and so and we can say these things about.
• 43:14
  Mary Magdalene, She had Major. Issues she found in Jesus.
• 43:17
  Her solution we could say in more pious language for Savior,
• 43:21
  but we just say her solution issues like I'm speaking secular
• 43:25
  language just to make it accessible for everybody.
• 43:28
  She finds in Jesus the solution. She's forever grateful and she
• 43:32
  shows that in the support for and building up the community
• 43:34
  because you know this is going to bless so many people.
• 43:37
  And then she is faithful when the times get tough and going
• 43:42
  gets rough and she's faithful through Calgary and she's still
• 43:45
  faithful after Calgary because she's going to the tomb for the
• 43:47
  anointing. So like it's the worst of the
• 43:50
  worst is the dead end of the street and she's still there.
• 43:54
  And then Jesus surprised her and then sends her with the joy of
• 43:59
  the resurrection, the the first Hallelujah of Easter to the
• 44:04
  apostles and they can't believe her.
• 44:07
  And it's just absolutely mind boggling.
• 44:09
  It just there's people have commented about the glass
• 44:13
  ceiling that women have to breakthrough.
• 44:15
  That was it. That was the ultimate glass
• 44:18
  ceiling and that has still that still ricochets to this day.
• 44:22
  It still. Vibrates resonates to this day.
• 44:27
  This is Mary Magdalene. And so it's no wonder then that
• 44:30
  this is a great place since in our times, in the last century
• 44:34
  and quarter century and a half, the issue of women has come very
• 44:38
  much to the fore. And that's very important.
• 44:41
  And sometimes it's been driven and written by ideologies that
• 44:45
  not necessarily are looking for the best of the woman, but
• 44:47
  they're using that to advance other causes.
• 44:50
  And the gospel message is truly liberating in the we encounter
• 44:54
  with Christ. Christ is the Lord, but he
• 44:57
  doesn't dominate people. He sets them free.
• 45:01
  He sends them out to change the world, to be the salt of the
• 45:03
  earth and the light of the world.
• 45:05
  So this is what Mary Magdon experiences.
• 45:08
  And what a model, what a message, what an example, what a
• 45:12
  delight. And very difficult in that time
• 45:14
  because the the male dominance of the cultures of the time in
• 45:20
  the Roman society, in the Greek society, in the Jewish society
• 45:24
  was Jesus was also breaking ceilings at that time, glass
• 45:28
  ceilings and cement ceilings. Yeah.
• 45:31
  Absolutely. You know, as we are watching the
• 45:35
  clock as well, making sure you have plenty of time.
• 45:37
  So we're. We're going down to #8 on the
• 45:40
  question there, but out me and Brett, we both been twice to the
• 45:44
  Holy Lands. We've both been twice to Magdala
• 45:47
  and various different regions and seen a lot of things.
• 45:49
  And you can definitely say that people's faith has been
• 45:53
  deepened, grown. I shared last night with our
• 45:55
  church my trip and shared all the photos and had a question,
• 45:59
  answer time and just a wonderful time of sharing how the Lord
• 46:04
  deep in my faith by walking where Jesus walked and open my
• 46:07
  eyes more than just a book or a Bible study can do.
• 46:11
  I mean, you're walking and and seeing and touching exactly what
• 46:14
  Jesus did, but you've seen the over the course of your 20,
• 46:18
  almost 20 years there in Israel and in Jerusalem and Magdala,
• 46:23
  thousands of pilgrimages, thousands of people come through
• 46:26
  there. Is there a story or are there
• 46:29
  stories that sort of stand out to you maybe in the event that
• 46:33
  happened that that you'd want to share?
• 46:35
  And if not, that's fine. I just an idea that I haven't as
• 46:38
  we're walking through that. Sure, Actually just two days
• 46:41
  ago, a few days ago, I'm not sure that Christian once the
• 46:45
  group was leaving and you remember the Chapel, the jars
• 46:48
  Chapel where the a daughter usually puts her hand into Jesus
• 46:53
  hand beside the little girl, the daughter of Jairus.
• 46:56
  And we say that prayer. Thank you Jesus, for holding my
• 46:58
  hand. Keep my hand in your hand
• 47:01
  always. Never let it go, Jesus.
• 47:03
  And then we do a prayer for the parents and the grandparents,
• 47:05
  the uncles and hands. Jesus, thank you for holding our
• 47:09
  daughter's hand, our granddaughter and our niece's
• 47:11
  hand and so on. Fill her with life, Jesus, Like
• 47:15
  one day you filled the daughter of Jairus and his wife with
• 47:18
  life. And when her greatest day comes,
• 47:21
  Jesus, fill her with the fullness of everlasting life,
• 47:25
  with all the angels and Saints and glory.
• 47:29
  I can't tell you how many people have come to me.
• 47:31
  So just a few days ago, a couple shared with me that their
• 47:35
  daughter had a very tragic news just two days before they left
• 47:40
  from here. Her boyfriend ended her life
• 47:44
  with a revolver, ended his life with with a revolver.
• 47:50
  And so they were leaving for the Holy Land and she had other
• 47:54
  friends around her as well, but they came with that heavy load.
• 48:00
  And then they, the Lord consoled them.
• 48:04
  And I had no idea they were in that situation.
• 48:07
  Maybe most people in the group didn't know.
• 48:09
  I'm not sure if they shared it with anybody else.
• 48:12
  And so they know that today. I know that and I know who this
• 48:19
  couple is, and I don't have the contact information or anything,
• 48:23
  but I know who they are. And so they shared that story
• 48:27
  with me. They wanted to release that news
• 48:30
  they had, and they said how significant it was.
• 48:32
  There was another, the same Chapel with the same prayer six
• 48:36
  or eight years ago. There was a lady who was weeping
• 48:38
  at the end of that moment, and she said to me, I have to share
• 48:43
  this with you. For years I was fighting God,
• 48:46
  why my daughter, why our daughter needed to die.
• 48:51
  And she said, I've been released from that pain, from that
• 48:53
  struggle, from that wrestling with God.
• 48:55
  I, I, you know, it's a grace she received.
• 48:59
  So I remember once I got an e-mail from a guy, I think he
• 49:04
  was from Mississippi, and he had a picture of when I took a
• 49:07
  prayer with his hand upon Peter's hand, Jesus pulling him
• 49:10
  out of the water, you know, walking on the water Chapel, the
• 49:13
  storm of the sea. And he said, I can have to tell
• 49:17
  you how important this moment was for us.
• 49:20
  He said I had special prayer there.
• 49:23
  And that was like 9 or 10 months ago.
• 49:27
  But in the summertime, our grandchild, 12 year old
• 49:30
  grandchild was on a rafting camp in Alaska and he lost his life
• 49:35
  in the raft in the whitewater. When we got the news, the first
• 49:39
  thing that came to my mind was the picture was the prayer that
• 49:44
  I spoke at that place. And I went to the computer and
• 49:46
  looked for that picture. And I want to share with you
• 49:50
  that a few months ago when we had went through this tragedy,
• 49:52
  that this was a moment of great blessing.
• 49:55
  So the things that we're doing here is really not our doing.
• 49:58
  It's God's doing. And sometimes, you know, the
• 50:02
  Lord is trying to reach us and we don't get reached.
• 50:05
  But there are moments in life, and it doesn't have to be the
• 50:07
  Holy Land. It can be in your own room.
• 50:11
  The Lord touches our hearts. It can be a true sickness.
• 50:13
  It can be true news of an accident.
• 50:16
  It can be a good thing or a bad thing that happens.
• 50:18
  But the Lord can get our attention and give us a grace
• 50:21
  that we need, and we're aware of it.
• 50:23
  And I would say that. Everybody's blessed in the Holy
• 50:25
  Land. Some people only find out years
• 50:27
  later, like that gentleman found out about 5 months later why God
• 50:32
  gave him that moment of prayer preparing him in the middle of a
• 50:35
  stormy sea, withholding Jesus, holding his hand in rough waters
• 50:40
  because the WAVY waters there and his son, he's imagining him
• 50:43
  in the white water. He would just wish he could have
• 50:44
  been there and save his grandson in Alaska.
• 50:47
  It didn't happen. So he's now with Jesus again and
• 50:50
  Jesus holding him so he doesn't sink in the waters of sorrow and
• 50:54
  grief and so many other things. There was this lady, an American
• 50:58
  lady, and for some reason she ended up in the Soviet Union
• 51:01
  years and decades ago. And she ended up being very,
• 51:05
  very abused and unimaginable abuse and for a long time.
• 51:11
  And she finally was able to escape back to the US and
• 51:14
  rebuild her life. And then she came to Magdala,
• 51:17
  and this was with my sister and was working here, and she was
• 51:22
  down in the Encounter Chapel and she had that moment of prayer
• 51:27
  there. And she said, Jesus restored my
• 51:29
  dignity. So she had terrible assault to
• 51:34
  her own personal dignity, that she was worth nothing because
• 51:38
  the way she was treated. And here in this moment of
• 51:40
  prayer, Jesus restored her dignity.
• 51:44
  So there are different types and areas of help.
• 51:49
  We've heard many things about different types of healings, but
• 51:52
  that's not, you know, unique to this place.
• 51:55
  The Lord can the biggest probably healing that we all
• 51:57
  need is a strengthening of our faith to realize that we're
• 52:01
  always in God's presence that he never leaves us he never
• 52:04
  abandons us that they strengthen our virtue of hope that we're
• 52:09
  anchored in Christ and there's nothing that can overcome us and
• 52:14
  that we're strengthening our love that we're able to grow in
• 52:19
  that level of patience we need for life's challenges and
• 52:22
  difficulties that we're able to grow with that forgiveness that
• 52:25
  we need to receive or to share with others and that we're able
• 52:29
  to grow in that service, putting our lives at the service and so
• 52:32
  many people serve a lot. They serve at home their
• 52:34
  children their children are sick.
• 52:36
  They serve at the gas station because that's where they're
• 52:38
  working. They serve in the supermarket.
• 52:40
  Check out that's where they're working they're and and to grow
• 52:44
  in the for that. That's not just a drudgery, but
• 52:46
  it's actually being in Christ and serving Christ and also come
• 52:50
  to check out their groceries in the supermarket.
• 52:52
  There's so many ways to live the faith, the hope, the love and
• 52:57
  that's what we really need that is other events that I told you
• 53:00
  about OK, they're very sensational.
• 53:01
  They're sensational, they're very dramatic, but since the
• 53:04
  ordinary. Life that we all need to be
• 53:06
  renewed. And I would say the pilgrimage
• 53:08
  helps a lot of people in that way.
• 53:12
  It gives them a renews. It's a moment of grace.
• 53:14
  It's a moment of prayer. It's a moment of God's action in
• 53:18
  our lives where we let him happen, let him do this work in
• 53:21
  our lives. Amen.
• 53:25
  One of the things that amazed me when I was there, Father Kelly,
• 53:29
  was the interfaith dynamic that you have to navigate.
• 53:33
  Magala attracts so many people of so many different faith
• 53:36
  backgrounds and. Yeah.
• 53:42
  And Baptists and Jews and things like that.
• 53:45
  And so hearing you tell stories of these different groups.
• 53:48
  So I want to ask you, how do interfaith experiences shape
• 53:52
  your work and the understanding of witnesses?
• 54:00
  I think somehow I was blessed by the Lord since I was a child in
• 54:04
  this way. And in Ireland, growing up in
• 54:06
  the West of Ireland, it's like it was 99 Percent Catholic.
• 54:10
  And at least in on the cover, OK, who knows what everybody's
• 54:14
  heart was or the difficulties they were having or whatever.
• 54:17
  But in general and the respect my dad had, there was a guy who
• 54:21
  used to deliver the gas cylinders for us because that
• 54:24
  was our extra energy besides the wood and the farm for, for
• 54:28
  burning and for cooking and so on.
• 54:30
  We had a gas oven as well. And the man was Methodist and my
• 54:38
  dad would say God bless the poor man.
• 54:40
  So we were learning to respect and love, cherish what we had as
• 54:48
  a gift of our faith in the church.
• 54:52
  And somebody was different. My dad, he had worked in England
• 54:56
  a lot as a young man, as a Carpenter.
• 54:58
  And so he had been exposed to a lot of people.
• 54:59
  But we, I received that in my home.
• 55:02
  And then there was a grand uncle of ours who was looked after by
• 55:04
  a lady who wasn't Catholic and she used to come to visit
• 55:07
  sometimes from England. He had been working in the civil
• 55:10
  service in England and she wasn't Catholic.
• 55:12
  But the respect and love that my parents received them within the
• 55:16
  home and didn't make an issue out of it for us.
• 55:21
  Like the marker was to go to Mass on Sundays, right?
• 55:24
  So obviously this lady didn't do that.
• 55:26
  And so, but we never had a critical judgment about her.
• 55:29
  We never called her out. It was give her the maximum love
• 55:35
  because she had taken such care of our grand uncle when he was
• 55:38
  very sick. And then, you know, the work I
• 55:43
  did in the States was an exposure to a lot more were in
• 55:49
  Catholic because Catholics are a minority in the States the years
• 55:51
  I was there. But the majority of my work is
• 55:53
  among Catholic. Then I went to, I was signed, I
• 55:54
  was working in Germany, like I told you, for 11 years, and
• 55:57
  sometimes I showed up at a retreat organized by young
• 55:59
  people. I'd encourage them to organize a
• 56:01
  retreat. And half the kids were Lutheran.
• 56:04
  So I had to change my whole part how I will do the retreat
• 56:09
  because I want to be an encouragement for all the
• 56:13
  Lutheran kids that were at the retreat without offending them
• 56:20
  and also without depriving the Catholic.
• 56:22
  So finally, the common denomination square, what can we
• 56:25
  build on together? And if we're doing some things
• 56:27
  that are specific to Catholic, to do it in a way that's also
• 56:30
  going to be helpful for them so they can understand what we're
• 56:33
  doing so that we can understand and learn to respect each other.
• 56:37
  And then being assigned here, it was very special in that way.
• 56:42
  Also, the work in New York, because I did a lot of work in
• 56:44
  New York, in Manhattan, and met a lot of Jewish people.
• 56:47
  They really didn't know much about the Jewish faith actually.
• 56:50
  And it was an interesting time having conversations with them.
• 56:53
  But here then it's the maximum of that peak of encounter every
• 56:59
  day. Like I just told you about our
• 57:00
  employees. All our employees here are
• 57:02
  Jewish, Muslim rules. We have better ones.
• 57:06
  That's an ethnicity. Christians and atheists and
• 57:10
  agnostics, and it's just an incredible mix.
• 57:14
  We had 240 Israelis living with us for 16 months during the war.
• 57:19
  They had to be evacuated from their homes and the needed.
• 57:22
  Places for, you know, they're coming from kibbutz.
• 57:25
  So they're not they're religious Jews and they wouldn't be going
• 57:28
  to synagogue very much at all. And so, you know, does it's all
• 57:33
  the time of continuing education and you're responsible for a
• 57:35
  synagogue and for ritual baths of the Jewish people from 2000
• 57:39
  years ago. So all of that works on you.
• 57:41
  So I think the first thing is that we ourselves are stretched
• 57:44
  in our heart to make space for others.
• 57:46
  That's a beautiful line that Saint Paul appeals.
• 57:48
  I think to the. Philippians, I'm not sure who he
• 57:50
  appeals to and says, stretch your hearts.
• 57:52
  Make space for me like I make space in my heart for you.
• 57:55
  And for us Christians, sometimes we can fall into a trap of being
• 57:59
  very judgmental. And since we are very convinced
• 58:03
  that we have the right thing, and probably most human beings
• 58:05
  think the same way, we're very judgmental, easily judgmental.
• 58:09
  We can fall into that very easily of others.
• 58:12
  And there are whole lots of scripture and doctrine to talk
• 58:15
  about. But we can have a lot of
• 58:16
  prejudice without getting to know the person.
• 58:20
  And sometimes there was an atheist man working here and I
• 58:22
  had quite a few conversations with him and he was a marvelous
• 58:25
  man. And he was teaching his kids
• 58:28
  1214 year olds not to hit the Muslims at the beginning of the.
• 58:31
  War after October 7th 23 I was. Fascinated by that man and there
• 58:36
  was a man that didn't have a religious dimension, but he was
• 58:41
  teaching his kids that they shouldn't learn hatred and how
• 58:46
  to deal in that environment. There'll be plenty of people
• 58:48
  that would express hatred and express vengeance and revenge.
• 58:52
  Thoughts. But.
• 58:54
  He was teaching his kids to have a bigger heart, to have
• 58:57
  understanding. I was fascinated by that man.
• 59:01
  So I think that the fact of learning about the others with
• 59:05
  our cardinal here, Pizza Bala released a very similar he's 10
• 59:09
  years younger than me, but he was from northern Italy.
• 59:12
  And he said when he came to study at Hebrew University was
• 59:15
  the first time people questioned his Catholic faith because
• 59:18
  nobody questioned his northern Italy.
• 59:19
  Everybody was Catholic and then he said through those
• 59:22
  conversations, he learned a lot about his own faith because of
• 59:25
  the questions they would ask. So to meet the other who's
• 59:28
  different, it's actually an it's a very can be very enriching
• 59:32
  experience. We shouldn't be nervous about
• 59:35
  it. We should have great respect for
• 59:36
  the others. God respects me.
• 59:38
  He respects you. He respects us Christians.
• 59:40
  He respects every human being and even in the Bible says he
• 59:43
  brings the rain down the fields of the good and the bad alike.
• 59:46
  So he doesn't even make distinctions because he wants
• 59:48
  everybody to have a blessing that he's still there providing
• 59:51
  so that when they're ready to come back, the doors open.
• 59:53
  Like the prodigal son finds the door open, not just open.
• 59:56
  He finds a party or join him in over 1 center.
• 59:59
  And somehow we can be very judgmental and we can be very
• 1:00:02
  harsh with our fellow believers and with those who don't believe
• 1:00:07
  exactly like we do or who believe something completely
• 1:00:10
  different. And I know there are huge issues
• 1:00:13
  in all this field, so we wouldn't do it just in 5 minutes
• 1:00:16
  here, but I think that we wouldn't be making a mistake to
• 1:00:19
  enlarge our hearts to make space for others without judging them.
• 1:00:24
  And we can pray for them. We can say, Lord, show them and
• 1:00:26
  show me also the great truth of your love, because I'm still
• 1:00:30
  discovering God's love. And I think in heaven, we will
• 1:00:32
  not just go in and have it all in one moment.
• 1:00:34
  We're forever. We're going to be growing in
• 1:00:36
  greater capacity to understand the the Infinity of God's love.
• 1:00:40
  I mean, if he made they can't count the number of stars, who
• 1:00:44
  can count the number of atoms and if we're human beings aren't
• 1:00:48
  able to do that. That's just the smallest shadow
• 1:00:50
  of the incountability. If you want to use that word,
• 1:00:53
  the unfathomability of God's reality and it's just the the
• 1:01:00
  gift that God has, like he said to the woman at the well Jesus
• 1:01:03
  did. He said if you only knew the
• 1:01:05
  gift God has for you. She only knew the gift of God.
• 1:01:09
  If we only knew. We only.
• 1:01:11
  Knew the Saints God is making in other places with his Providence
• 1:01:16
  and that shouldn't allow us to go away from what the gift we
• 1:01:20
  have. We have a huge gift.
• 1:01:21
  The gift we have in Christ is immense.
• 1:01:25
  The eternal word God made flesh, who died on Calvary for us, Who
• 1:01:30
  rose from the dead, who poured out the Holy Spirit upon us from
• 1:01:34
  the Father and living God living inside us, inhabiting us.
• 1:01:38
  What more could we want? What more could we desire?
• 1:01:42
  And that's our whole life is trying to discover that it's
• 1:01:46
  it's finally being able to have enough of common sense to wake
• 1:01:50
  up and and accept this extraordinary pouring out of God
• 1:01:54
  into our lives. So this is something something
• 1:01:57
  really off the off the charts. You know, it's huge.
• 1:02:01
  And then that. Experience meeting the others.
• 1:02:03
  We don't have to do all the work.
• 1:02:04
  We only have a few minutes with people most of the time.
• 1:02:07
  Some people have 40 minutes with us here.
• 1:02:09
  Some people stay two or three days, but they're out all the
• 1:02:11
  day. You see them at breakfast maybe,
• 1:02:13
  or see them at supper. You give them a tour and there's
• 1:02:16
  a bit more contact because they can study you a bit better.
• 1:02:19
  They're there a couple of days, so they're watching you, they're
• 1:02:21
  watching the community. But it's it's amazing.
• 1:02:25
  I think we're going to be a lot of surprises in heaven.
• 1:02:28
  Absolutely. You know, that was that
• 1:02:31
  statement was said to me by one of our guys on the trip with us.
• 1:02:34
  He said we were talking to guy, our guide, and he said one of
• 1:02:39
  the largest groups of people because we noticed there were a
• 1:02:42
  lot of Chinese people that were there, Asian people.
• 1:02:45
  And he said the largest group of people that come and have a Holy
• 1:02:49
  Land visit is from China. And he said the underground
• 1:02:54
  church, they want to come and experience the Holy Land and
• 1:02:58
  more people come from China than anywhere else.
• 1:03:01
  And one of the guys looked at me and he said, I think we're going
• 1:03:03
  to be surprised when we get to heaven with who is there and
• 1:03:06
  who's not Like, hold on, China, like underground.
• 1:03:09
  This doesn't make sense in our mind.
• 1:03:12
  And I long for that day. It's good to be able to talk to
• 1:03:15
  you. We're going to ask you 2
• 1:03:16
  questions. I know we've got about 12
• 1:03:18
  minutes left. What are the next milestones for
• 1:03:21
  Magdala? What, what are things in the
• 1:03:24
  future? I know you've got a couple of
• 1:03:26
  projects that are going on. What's the next phases of things
• 1:03:30
  then Brett's going to ask the final question to let you close
• 1:03:33
  the final thoughts. So our big task everyday now is
• 1:03:39
  trying to look after our pilgrims.
• 1:03:41
  COVID came, we started a very strong outreach to social media,
• 1:03:45
  Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and I started a sunrise store and
• 1:03:49
  chat every morning at 6A and when the sun rises.
• 1:03:53
  And so we do a lot in that area, and a lot of things are
• 1:03:56
  beginning to mature in a certain sense.
• 1:03:58
  We have a lot of the infrastructure.
• 1:03:59
  We have some things still to do. We need help to build a
• 1:04:01
  restaurant. And we'd love the Baptist to be
• 1:04:03
  involved. We love every church to be
• 1:04:05
  involved. Because imagine if we could all
• 1:04:07
  build this restaurant together and we'd have a monument outside
• 1:04:11
  the restaurant where it says Methodist, Presbyterian,
• 1:04:14
  Baptist, sleepy Catholic, Anglican, Episcopalian, Orthodox
• 1:04:19
  Christians. We all build it together.
• 1:04:21
  The Pentecostals that we all build it together.
• 1:04:24
  People would come and say, wow, that's not possible.
• 1:04:26
  That didn't happen. Yeah, the guy's going to say,
• 1:04:28
  look here. It's written here in this stone.
• 1:04:29
  They all built it together. And then we'd have an arch piece
• 1:04:32
  with John 172023 when Jesus saying, Father, may they all be
• 1:04:37
  1 like you are in me and I am in you so that the world will
• 1:04:41
  believe that you sent me. And I think there's a beautiful
• 1:04:46
  gift happening already in that direction where Christians lose
• 1:04:50
  their prejudices and develop friendships with each other.
• 1:04:54
  We don't need to make it too romantic and poetic right now
• 1:04:57
  because it's a rocky road. It's not easy.
• 1:05:00
  It's a. It's a.
• 1:05:01
  Challenge of grace, transforming our own lives.
• 1:05:05
  If we get rid of our prejudice, we still have two major things.
• 1:05:08
  The difference we have reading the scripture, difference we
• 1:05:10
  have doing theology. But if we have prejudice, we
• 1:05:12
  shouldn't even bother talking because we'll just be
• 1:05:16
  aggressively more hostile to each other.
• 1:05:18
  We'll alienate each other more. We walk steps away from each
• 1:05:21
  other, but if we could do one step closer, overcoming our
• 1:05:25
  prejudices and building something together.
• 1:05:27
  So this is a big step we want to do right now.
• 1:05:32
  And we obviously have more infrastructure work, We have
• 1:05:34
  more excavations to do, although we're not in a big hurry to do
• 1:05:37
  it because we have such sensational discoveries that
• 1:05:39
  people are still discovering here in Magla.
• 1:05:42
  The biggest thing I think is what the ministry is going to do
• 1:05:44
  that's happening here. The friendships with pastors,
• 1:05:47
  with different churches, the I can't tell you how many pastors.
• 1:05:51
  We just are best of friends, the Pentecostal symbols of God
• 1:05:55
  Baptists all kinds of Baptists because there's a whole bunch of
• 1:05:57
  different Baptists. I just learned that we had
• 1:05:59
  Baptist pastors come here from Texas and from North Carolina
• 1:06:02
  two weeks ago with Methodist, with Wesleyan, with non
• 1:06:06
  denomination, with evangelical and they came here to see how
• 1:06:09
  can we build this together, one step closer, hospitality
• 1:06:12
  together and say so there's and the things that can come out of
• 1:06:16
  this with pastors with with churches.
• 1:06:19
  I think they're only the Lord knows the future.
• 1:06:22
  In that sense. I think it's called to surprise
• 1:06:23
  us. We wrote a principle when we did
• 1:06:27
  our our branding 10 years, 12 years ago now.
• 1:06:31
  And one of the principles was for the vision that Magus should
• 1:06:35
  be a catalyst for renewal and reconciliation worldwide.
• 1:06:39
  And we never imagined we will be doing this type of work with the
• 1:06:42
  different churches. So the Lord let this flower
• 1:06:46
  blossom and we saw more petals opening up with new colours that
• 1:06:50
  we didn't anticipate. And we don't know where the Lord
• 1:06:52
  will take it. I mean, we have an idea.
• 1:06:54
  And we then hopefully, I'd say pray for us that we will, our
• 1:06:58
  hearts will allow the Lord to do all he wants to do in our lives.
• 1:07:02
  And what he wants to bring out, the fruits he wants to bring
• 1:07:05
  from his blossoms, He's letting unfold these plants that are
• 1:07:08
  beginning to germinate and grow up.
• 1:07:11
  Also, the relationship between Jews and Christians is already
• 1:07:14
  being deeply blessed here, but it still hasn't found the
• 1:07:16
  concrete form, and I'm sure that's coming.
• 1:07:19
  It's a matter of time. It's a matter of fidelity.
• 1:07:21
  It's a matter of responding to grace and letting God heal.
• 1:07:25
  All these relationships that have sometimes been very deeply
• 1:07:28
  damaged in the past, like 30 years, war between Christians
• 1:07:31
  and Europe, all the horrible things that happened in my
• 1:07:34
  country, in Northern Ireland, but also the things that
• 1:07:36
  happened in the decadence of our own lives and the renewal we
• 1:07:39
  need tensions inside church communities that have left
• 1:07:43
  wounds that need to be healed. There's so much to do in all of
• 1:07:46
  this area. And the Lord is doing, if he was
• 1:07:49
  able to do with Mary Magnum and have her be the first witness,
• 1:07:51
  how many new first witnesses are going to come out for all
• 1:07:54
  sectors of society, for the Chinese, for Asia, for Africa,
• 1:07:58
  for Europe? Today needs a lot of work.
• 1:08:01
  The Lord is doing it. Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  Amen, Father Kelly, we want to thank you for coming on today
• 1:08:07
  and being a part of our podcast here.
• 1:08:10
  Thank you for taking up your time.
• 1:08:11
  Just as kind of a last question and kind of getting your final.
• 1:08:15
  Thoughts. What is your prayer for those
• 1:08:18
  listening today? Would they come to Mangala, they
• 1:08:20
  make the pilgrimage, or they take those ideas back to their
• 1:08:24
  communities? What's your prayer for those
• 1:08:27
  listening? Thank you.
• 1:08:31
  I would say, you know, you don't have to wait to.
• 1:08:34
  Come here to start. You can plan to come here.
• 1:08:40
  Put it high up on the bucket list.
• 1:08:41
  If you're a person that does travel, why let the whole that
• 1:08:44
  be the last? Thing you do.
• 1:08:45
  When you're 90, do it now so that it impacts your life.
• 1:08:49
  Earlier past the day we had just before I came over here, I took
• 1:08:51
  extra time with the family. The three little boys, they were
• 1:08:53
  also Baptist and you know, there were Lutherans and mom and dad
• 1:08:57
  and there was an older couple that weren't the grandparents
• 1:08:59
  with them. And I just gave them some extra
• 1:09:01
  time and, and the boys were the oldest was like 12 or 1313 and
• 1:09:07
  then the youngest fellow was probably 6:00 or 7:00 or
• 1:09:09
  7:00-ish maybe. And just the blessing it was to
• 1:09:13
  see them and the way that family was so closely knit and so warm.
• 1:09:18
  And these kids are such potential.
• 1:09:19
  The Lord normally knows what's going to come from them.
• 1:09:21
  And that little encounter today, you know, the work that was done
• 1:09:24
  with that family and by the parents and their grandparents
• 1:09:27
  for the last 10/15/20 years. We're all sewing in God's
• 1:09:30
  vineyard. We're all sowing seeds.
• 1:09:33
  We're all and we ask the Lord to open our hearts to overcome our
• 1:09:38
  little limitations. And when we have limitations we
• 1:09:40
  can't easily overcome, to give us the patience that we can.
• 1:09:43
  We can plot along and resonate His love as much as possible to
• 1:09:48
  all those around us in gratitude and humility, asking for
• 1:09:52
  forgiveness, giving forgiveness, serving, being grateful, being
• 1:09:57
  grateful. If you want, they can check into
• 1:10:00
  the sunrise scrolling chat. You can put up some links for
• 1:10:02
  that and it's on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram.
• 1:10:06
  And I would love them to get involved with onestepcloser.org
• 1:10:10
  to get in there. And there's a bunch of Baptists
• 1:10:12
  getting involved with that. And I think we get a lot of
• 1:10:15
  Baptists that can be high up in the protocol there.
• 1:10:17
  And the participation in the in this restaurant.
• 1:10:21
  And the restaurant isn't about the restaurant.
• 1:10:22
  It's about giving witness to John 1720 to 23.
• 1:10:25
  May they all be one, Father, as you and I are one.
• 1:10:29
  So the world will believe that you sent me.
• 1:10:33
  That's an amazing word. And that's kind of a culmination
• 1:10:36
  of the mystery of salvation. It's antithesis to Babel, the
• 1:10:38
  Tower of Babel, completely all separated, broken up, the
• 1:10:42
  antithesis to Cain and Abel. It's the embrace of the other,
• 1:10:46
  despite they're not exactly made to my measure.
• 1:10:49
  It's the endorsement and information of all that God is
• 1:10:52
  doing, good and the other, even if he's a criminal today, even
• 1:10:55
  if he's a drug Lord, even if he's a corrupt politician.
• 1:10:58
  Our work isn't to condemn them. Our work is to provide the
• 1:11:00
  prayer, the encouragement, the healing of our society.
• 1:11:06
  Yeah. How long for the day where we
• 1:11:08
  can all be 1 together and one day that'll be true in heaven.
• 1:11:13
  And thankful that we can have a small part of that here on earth
• 1:11:16
  as we share the gospel with others, as we share the death,
• 1:11:19
  burial, resurrection of Jesus. And thankful for what you're
• 1:11:23
  doing there and the impact that you're having.
• 1:11:26
  And thank you so much for your time and spending an hour and
• 1:11:29
  some minutes with us. And listener, I hope this was a
• 1:11:32
  blessing to you. And hopefully we can maybe line
• 1:11:35
  up a a second episode and and talk through some of the daily
• 1:11:39
  life and theological portions of where you're at there.
• 1:11:43
  But thank you so much, Father Kelly, for coming on today and
• 1:11:46
  sharing your time with us. And we'll sign off, when to God
• 1:11:51
  be the glory. Great things he has done.
• 1:11:54
  Amen. Amen.
• 1:11:55
  Amen. And I want to thank you for
• 1:11:57
  inviting me. It's very gracious of you and
• 1:11:59
  may be blessed for everybody. Found my new name, Found that
• 1:12:04
  good grace, found that healing. And the tears fell down my face
• 1:12:10
  when I found my beginning. It has no ending.
• 1:12:12
  I found that second chance. Found my best friend, Found my
• 1:12:14
  forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since I
• 1:12:17
  found my freedom. Thanks for listening to the Four
• 1:12:34
  Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed the content of
• 1:12:37
  the podcast, please do us a favor by liking, subscribing or
• 1:12:42
  sharing the podcast on whatever podcast platform.
• 1:12:45
  You listen to.