Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #183: Spring Gardening Made Simple: Joel Salatin’s Secrets to a Thriving Vegetable Garden

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Episode #183: Spring Gardening Made Simple: Joel Salatin’s Secrets to a Thriving Vegetable Garden · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this is new for us, you know, and and I'm excited about it because we're now in our second year of these particular type of really what I call extra high-raised beds, as opposed to, you know, 12 inches high, you know, really going up there 30 inches.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm more jazzed about the garden than I've been in a long, long time.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: We actually graze cheap through there.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And today is a really special podcast that I'm looking forward to because I'm hoping to start a spring garden.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel is here to guide us through spring garden tips and tricks and things to avoid and look out for.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is not just for beginners like me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for beginners all the way through seasoned gardeners.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to learn something from Joel.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Joel, take it away.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's uh it's great to talk about this topic because if there's one thing that all of us are, you know, interested in these days, uh certainly people who are who are in our tribe, it is eating better, uh, staying well, but you know, uh nutritionally dense vegetables and produce and things like that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um so there's there's numerous um uh parts of a of a garden.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna I'm gonna concentrate on the kind of the annual veggies right now, but but that is not to exclude things like blackberries and raspberries and you know what we call the bramble fruits, as well as tree fruits, you know, apples and pears and peaches and things like that.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but today I'm gonna I'm gonna concentrate more on on getting a you know veggie veggie garden in.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing I think that you need to think about is light.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, a lot of times yards are heavily shaded, and all vegetables need a lot of light.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some need more than others, and and sometimes in the in the summertime when it gets really hot, uh, some of the cool season things like you know, lettuce and cabbage and things would like some additional shade in the summer just to keep them a little cooler so they don't bolt, you know, bolt and go to seed.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: When it gets too hot, they they just simply bolt and go to seed.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or or or turn kind of bitter, you know, they get acidy.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and so so light um light is a big deal.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so think about how the sun traverses across your property.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right, the sun, of course, you know, it rises in the east, it goes to the west.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But what that means is that if you're if you're behind shade, you you you can be behind shade for a portion of the day, but you can't be behind the shade all the time.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if you've got morning sun, let's say until noon or one, you can probably get by.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got afternoon sun from about 12 till dark, you can probably get by.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: What you can't get by with is something on the on the north side of a shade where you have shade all day long.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't have enough sun to grow what you're gonna grow.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why solariums, for example, always go on the south side of a house.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, you now, as to as to a start, um, there are really simple poor boy ways to to get a jump on things.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you've got a house or an outbuilding, a tool shed or something like that that um that that that has a take the southern exposure, you know, if it's if it's a four-sided building, one side is going to face south, okay?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So south is where the sun is, all right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and you can you can take some scrap metal very easily, tack it to the edge, and when that sun hits it, it will bounce down onto the ground, and you can gain a month in um you know in soil warmth by growing something in that little space uh you know, three feet out from the wall of an outbuilding that faces south, that you've put some sort of a you know uh a metallic side on.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And this can be temperature.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying just from the sun rays bouncing off that metal because it it's but it's warming the soil.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what it's doing?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So because the sun the sun's coming in on an angle.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh think about that.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sun's coming out on an angle, it hits that metal and it and it bounces down to the ground.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this metal doesn't have to go up very high.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if it goes up, I don't know, five feet, five feet, six feet, you know, on the edge of an outbuilding facing south, that those sun rays will bounce down to the to the ground, and you can and you can get stuff in a month earlier in that in that three, four foot space.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then you know, if you add a if you make it into a little uh raised bed, you know, then you know, then you can work it easier.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you make it into a raised bed, you can actually you can almost um you know prop your prop your piece of roofing or something up, you know, against it, and you can put a cloach on top to hold the temperature in at night.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a cloach can be can be a piece of plastic, it can be a piece of uh remake, you know, uh re- uh it's uh that's a polybond, polybond material that allows rain and air to come through, but not but not bugs.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and it can that can hold a lot of uh heat in at night.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: But my my point is uh the first thing I want you to think about is light.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: If if you just run out there and just throw in your garden and you're not thinking about light, about where the shade is, about where the south is, you're gonna you're you're gonna end up in a big you know, oops.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so think about light when you start positioning.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now oh wait, quick question on that one.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you said using that metal you can plant one month earlier.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does did you say does it also extend your season on the back end?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So so you you could plant something late and it would continue to grow um you know late into the fall, into the winter by getting that additional um sunlight.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So so that that's that's called using using micro spaces.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so around around your your house, uh, you're gonna have these micro spaces, and and so utilizing those can be a you know a great a great uh thing.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So think about light is what I'm getting at.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh go out, take a little bit of time uh with your with you know with your paper, diet diagram your trees and your house and stuff.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Think about the south side.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: How's the sun tracking across there and and you know and see where the shade is?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not if you're not on a on a vegetable garden, if you're not getting, I'm gonna say, um at least seven hours of really good, intense sun a day, your veggies are gonna struggle.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're just gonna struggle.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So look, it's a it's enough work to put in a garden as it is.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't don't handicap yourself with not enough sun.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh make sure you get to a place that that has plenty of sun.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one way that you can help yourself if you do have a shady yard, is to prune some of the bottom true bottom limbs off the trees.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got, if you have a an older homestead and you've got some, you know, some big shade trees, um, you can go out there and take, um, and and you know, depending on how how intrepid you are with a chainsaw or if you have a friend or something like that uh with a front end loader or something, you can take some of those lower branches off and and that will that will cast your sun out, you know, farther away from the tree instead of having those low branches that keep shade right around the trunk of the tree all the time.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you you you can you can buy some you can buy some light by pruning up a couple of these you know yard shade trees.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, go on up, prune up, uh, you know, I'm gonna say uh say 15 feet high.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you can go up on a on a fairly, you know, I'm talking about a tree that's over 12 inches in diameter, if you've got a limb that's um that's closer to the ground than 15 feet, um if you can, if you can take one of those off at you know the eight foot or ten foot level, you'd be surprised how much uh how much light you can purchase, you know, by by taking that shade, that canopy up higher so that the shade casts out far, you know, far away.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's incredible.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never have thought to prune my trees to help my vegetable garden.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's brilliant.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So so now if you've got a if you've got an eight foot uh um you know, if you've got an eight-foot branch at eight feet that's almost horizontal, that you put a children's swing set on, you know, you know, that now now you're now you got competing interests, okay?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you might not want to take that one off.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but but in general, yeah, you can purchase a lot of light by just pruning up.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can still get the shade from the from the canopy.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and when you take those low branches off a lot of times, the canopy will actually adapt and and spread out even you know way high.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the tree, the tr the tree will respond to your you know, to your uh pruning.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's just fine.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so light, light is the starting light's the big deal, okay?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how are we gonna lay this out?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I am a huge believer uh in raised beds, uh partly because I'm getting old enough that I don't like stooping over.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so Teresa and I are using 30-inch raised beds now.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've used 12-inch beds, we've used um uh no no you know, no bed, um, in other words, just just a bed with no framing on it, you know, uh just this is the garden, and that's the grass.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've used framing with wood, and now we're using 30-inch high raised beds.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: We love, love, love these very high-raised beds.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're a little more work, granted, they're a little more work because you gotta have these high walls, and then you gotta, what are you gonna fill it with?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the beauty of these high-raised beds is they're incredibly infant and toddler friendly.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because one of the biggest um whatever negatives in in a you know, in in gardening with your children is quit stomping on the, you know, those are beets there, you know.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can't you tell those are beets or carrots or whatever?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and the kids don't, you know, the little toddler doesn't know yet.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and so when you go up with with a with framing, um, then the toddler can be there and be with you, but they're not gonna climb up into the bed and and walk, walk over the plants.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be an enjoyable outing instead of a fussy, fussy outing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm getting at.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we're big believers in in um in these high-raised beds.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That might also help my dogs from not eating my produce.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've gardened before, and the dogs they know, and they go in there and just start eating it, or they'll come over and pee on it.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's the next item of the tall raised bed.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it keeps out dogs.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um a cat, a cat can jump up in there, but cats usually don't cause any trouble.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Cats are cats are pretty uh easy, gentle.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um groundhogs, rabbits, all the you know, possums, the only thing that these won't keep out are deer.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, you know, deer uh fortunately are not they're not rambunctious.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so you can keep a deer out with some very simple, you know, just a bird netting cloach.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: What when I'm saying uh for those of you, again, I'm I'm talking to all levels of of folks here, a cloak is simply an a rounded umbrella of some sort over your bed.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: It can be it can be plastic to you know to stimulate heat.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: It can be bird netting to protect it from uh predation, birds and and other wildlife.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it can be Reme, uh that's a brand name of Polybond.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is this this woven polymaterial that keeps that allows air and and water to come through, but doesn't allow insects to come through.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um Elliot Coleman, the guru of gardening, I mean he is, he is the guru of gardening, he says he doesn't even attempt to grow um squash and cucumbers anymore without polybond over top.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: The reason is because squash bugs and cucumber beetles and and borers, those things come when the plant is is old enough to have a stem they can live in, but young enough to still be tender enough to drill into.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so he consistently uses polybond.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also called a floating row cover.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, this stuff is so light, you put it on, and as the plants grow, they just they just kind of push it up.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so light it the plants can can just push it up.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to, you don't need to put it on, you know, ribs or ribs or anything like that.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: And in that way, once you and when you see your first cucumber bloom or your first squash bloom, then take it off.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: But by that time, the plant is old enough and strong enough that the squash vine bores and the cucumber beetles and stuff can't drill into the stem.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it's it's a it's a timing issue.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's actually a physical protection until the plant is mature enough to withstand an attack.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that makes some so you said remove it at the first bloom?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because because bees bees have to be able to get in.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that makes so much sense.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use this too, or which one of these do you use?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Polybond.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Polybond is a um it's the most amazing, wonderful material you can ever imagine.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um because air goes through it, so it's not prone to wind, wind damage.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's so light that it just it just rests on top of the plants, on top of the leaves.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And as they grow, they just keep they just keep pushing it up.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you just kind of you know you just kind of put it over, and you know, you you put a couple little twigs or rocks or something on the edges of it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get give it plenty of like a pleat, like a pleated dress.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: All right, you know, give it give it plenty of pleats, you know, uh plenty of room, and as the plants grow, they just they just push it up.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you see your when you see a blossom, take it off so the bees can pollinate and you're up and running.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, that's a it it it's it's a wonderful, wonderful material.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean the whole the whole topic of you know of of bugs and pests and all that is uh you know probably more than we can get into today.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So um That'll be a good podcast.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe once we get all get our spring garden up and running, then you can tell us about the pest control.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I'm telling I'm this is really interesting.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually getting very excited to to start planting my spring garden.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can't wait till we get to the seeds.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah, yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So so keys, keys about these beds are you don't you it when you make your bed, you want to be able to reach across to reach to the middle of it from both sides.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to make it so wide that you can't reach to the side.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: The whole idea of a bed is you never walk on it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, so you know, we like to make ours four feet by eight feet.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can make them however you're big you want.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing about a bed is that it psychologically, it's something that you can go out and work on and you can actually see the end of it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know we're talking to people like me that grew up with, you know, 50-foot rows of green beans.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it just looks like, man, oh man, I'll never get to the end of this row.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But but you can put you can put, you know, um uh almost four rows in a four by eight, you can put four rows of green beans in.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's 32 feet, but there's something about a four foot by eight foot patch of green beans that's that's 32 feet of row compared to looking at standing at the end of a 32-foot row and looking down 32 feet.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Psychologically, there's no comparison.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: The bed gives you a psychological footprint.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can do this.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna, you know, I I I can, whether it's weeding or planting or harvesting or whatever it is, um, the four by eight, but it, you know, it can be however big.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't encourage people to make, you know, four by thirties and four by twenties.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you have that much space, make make three four by eights, you know, so you chop it up into little bite-sized pieces.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've got 20 minutes, oh, I can work out, go out and work in, you know, bed A.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've got 10 minutes, I can work in bed B, you know, and and and you can um and you can actually uh um you know meter out your garden work in in in bite-sized pieces so the so it's not so whatever overwhelming uh when you look at the long row.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: My first garden that I ever tried in Virginia was huge, Joel.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I'd taken a picture.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I should try to find one and send it to you.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like 32 feet long beds or something, and I had like a row, like 12 or 15 rows of these things.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I went out to start weeding, it was a chore.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would be on the first row, halfway done, and I'd look over and I was like, oh, how am I ever gonna finish that?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was so overwhelming.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started out, I I probably I pretty much almost did as I've gotten to know you and you've taught me about gardening, I pretty much did all the wrong things.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my first wrong thing, and uh, and it was a big wrong.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was a big one.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: But listen, yeah, listen.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: If there's one piece of advice that I give to to people starting gardening, it is start smaller rather than bigger.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: A smaller, well-tained, well-maintained space will actually produce way more than a large, poorly maintained space.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, so again, so the four by eight, you know, look, if all you got time for this spring is one four by eight, you can grow a lot of stuff in a four by eight.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, beets, carrots I mean, there's room in a four by eight to grow uh, you know, wheelbarrows full of beets and carrots and uh and things.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and then you can and you can do a a second, you know, a second um second go.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll we'll we'll get to that in just a moment.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: But these beds can be constructed of whatever you want.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite, what we're using, is just old uh reused, salvaged pieces of corrugated metal roofing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So these are old, you know, the galv, they're they're dull.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're not nice, bright, you know, new pieces of metal.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're they've been on a some roof, and and that kind of stuff is available.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: You start looking around, you will find, believe me, you'll find there's always some old junk, you know, corrugated metal roofing around.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just just make a board frame around the outside, and um, and and and you're good to go.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh four by eight, okay?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so what are we going to fill it with?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: How do we actually start?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, my favorite, so there's no tiller, no spade, no shovel.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're out there in the lawn, you got grass, okay?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So all we do is we just put down cardboard.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Just put down cardboard on the grass.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to chop anything up, you don't have to spade anything up.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Just put cardboard down on the grass, and then we put junk wood on top of that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just fill that box with junk wood, and then when you get about 12 inches, so you know, if this is 30 inches high, you've got roughly, you know, 20 inches, 23 inches of just junk wood.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: It can be firewood, it can be old branches, it can be old boards, um, it can have nails in it, okay.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is called Hugel culture.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is a German word.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: H U G U L K T U R.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hugel culture.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the the Germans and Austrians have used this for years in their gardening, and they don't use it in beds like I'm describing.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: They they make windrows of wood waste, you know, just uh a pile it up windrow, and then they just put you know about eight inches of soil and compost over it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens is you can you can now take a piece of flat flat ground and with these windrows of garden you can quadruple the amount of garden surface area in a given space because you've got a mound instead of a flat surface.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow because you can plant all along the mound you you can plant you can plant uh you know all all over the sides that's so clever do you not do it that way because you don't want to bend down you want to you want it raised that's right so we don't do that now we we have we have done that out uh out at another out at the barn we've got a hoogle culture bed out there that we did uh but for the garden um I want something that is more clearly um clearly demarked as a bed you know listen Cena last year when we started this so this is new for us you know and and I'm excited about it because we're now in our second year of these uh these particular type of really what I call uh extra high raised beds as opposed to you know 12 inches high you know really going up there 30 inches and I I'm more jazzed about the garden than I've been in a long long time we actually grazed sheep through there we we we mowed between so put plenty of grass in between don't don't bunch these things up if you've got you know four or five of these beds put lots of room but room between them you can get the lawn mower between them a wheelbarrow between them uh we actually grazed it with the sheep because the they were high enough the sheep didn't uh mess with the vegetables and um it was it was just ideal so um so there's a lot of advantage to the tall bed the reason people don't like to do them is because they take so much material to fill yeah you know if if you're gonna fill it with dirt where are you gonna get that much dirt?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's gonna take a you know a truckload of dirt every one and so I'm telling you you don't have to do it with dirt just get old junk wood old scraps of anything borrow the Hugo culture idea from the Austrians and the Germans use that for the base of your bed and then just put you know just put uh eight nine inches of of soil and compost on top and you're and you're up and running that that makes it actually you know actually doable and the thing about the wood is that it rots very very slowly over time yes it will gradually uh rot down but it will be years and years before it rots down and the neat thing about the wood is that it stimulates fungi and and and fungi uh when you've got mycelium and you've got fungal growth around the roots of your plants uh that is that's gold versus versus for example bacteria um and and and and your plants want some bacteria too but what they really thrive on is all that white that fungal you know that fungal mycelial uh mass wow okay two questions uh for the wood that I'm putting in uh my raised bed can it be freshly cut trees like does it have to be fire like seasoned firewood it could so freshly cut and then so like on my property so Sarah that gives that gives you a reason to run your chainsaw oh that's what I was thinking I was like I'm gonna have a good time this weekend like a party of one um so we have some like trees that have fallen down for a while and they have mushrooms growing on them um you just can I pick up those logs and stick them in there because they already have mushrooms would that be good?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's great absolutely yeah yeah so yeah I mean obviously if these are eight feet long you can put eight foot eight foot long material in there you know so so think it's it's a it's a big puzzle it's a big puzzle and you'll have some stuff that's three feet two feet you'll have some stuff that's big and little and you just you just kind of put it in there like a puzzle and and and you know and fill up the the inside.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:25
  unknown: Okay.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: This would be fun.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: This will be like a scavenger hunt for my kids and I to go around and find the best pieces to stick in it.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well we're gonna start with one raised bed like just one that's that's fine.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so um so the the the the the the cardboard on the bottom wood and then some and some soil and compost on top uh the soil you know obviously you can you can buy the compost uh if you're you know if you're dealing with compost if you're making some compost that's that's great.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can't you know I I can't I can't tell you where to get that top that little you know that little top dressing uh but you know you can um you can find that somewhere even if you you know go out and dig it with a shovel out of somewhere um okay so you got your top you got you got your bed all right now what are you gonna plant?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wait real fast before you get to that on like the soil part I know this isn't the compost but like so let's say you're living on a homestead and you have you know soil in a pasture or you have soil like in a forested area can you go dig up that soil and put that in there and then add compost to that so then I so basically I can go out to my forest dig up some soil put it in there and then I just need to get the compost.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah absolutely oh great right yeah yeah now now just so you know don't don't go out in the woods and dig a hole uh scrape off the top scrape off the top you know so you get get get get the vegetation off and just go down about remember you're you're what you're doing is you're putting on topsoil and so don't go down below about whatever eight inches in your forest or you'll or you'll get into some real you know anaerobic subsoil yeah what if you have a lot of clay that that's okay that's okay the comp the the compost will the compost will fix it that'll be fine okay and and and and put it in there and you know um it'll it'll be fun you know you could you can put that in with a trowel you know you can kind of mix it up and and you will be surprised Cena when you when you do something 30 inches high um you'll be surprised how much more fun it is to work I mean I remember the first one Teresa and I built it we we got it we we got it up and then I'm I'm ready to plant the seeds and I mean it was just like a it was just so fun to work in because you don't even have to lean over you know it's just it's just right there.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like working on a in a kitchen cupboard you know or your desk.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's just it's really it's really handy and so that that makes a big difference.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um what to plant my answer there is plant what you like you don't this is not the time to go out and become exotic all right uh you know what do you like to eat you know if you don't like if you if you if you're not consistently buying arugula from the store don't plant arugula okay um but if you buy carrots and and onions and beets and things you know plant them so plant what you already like to eat that's going to make it a lot more fun and number two plant in the timing that's important.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea is and John Moody um my buddy at Rogue Food Conference he he's written a couple gardening books he's really great he says your goal should be that within about three weeks of starting your garden every square inch of ground should be should be covered with something in other words no sun no sun should touch the soil uh it should all be being intercepted by leaves all right so where I'm going with this is when you start you'll start with cool season stuff so cool season stuff are things that can take frost you know I mean goodness Houston Texas we we're right today we're recording at the end of February um Houston Texas they've already planted peas you know their spring is already upon them okay they're so thing you know all of your all of your cool season stuff and and then the question is well do I do sets or do I do seeds so there's some things it's better to do sets other things better to do seeds so for example cabbage uh broccoli cauliflower those kinds of things I would never plant from a seed it it takes too long so on those you want to get some sets and you can go to a garden store and and get and get sets or if you have a if you have a a little solarium or a or a cold frame hot bed you know you can start your own sets but the main thing is to start with your cool season stuff carrots beets onions peas um uh cabbage lettuce uh kale Swiss chard those are all your cool season stuff all right and you can put that in you know pretty densely all right put those seeds in densely and then and then um as soon as they germinate pop up you see the little seedlings then what you're wanting to do is get some mulch on there as early as possible and that can be something as simple as some lawn clippings that you just kind of you know strew in there.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just get a little bit of protection on that soil so when the thunderstorm comes it doesn't just pound your soil you know in around the plants and you give a little bit of protection around them.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Once those little those little cool season plants get some heights to them then you want to go in with some you know after a month or so and they're there they're getting some they're getting pretty robust or as soon as you start picking some of them like you know like radishes and beets you know within goodness uh 45 days you'll be harvesting some of those so it come comes pretty fast.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well as soon as you start making little holes start planting your summer stuff in there so so you what what this is called double cropping and and if you do this correctly you can actually triple crop and that's why these beds are so valuable is because and why small spaces managed well are so much more productive than large spaces managed poorly because as soon as you start pulling out some radishes or some beets or carrots or onions from the spring um yeah then you can go in with your squash, uh cucumber, pepper, tomato, and you can go in with your summer stuff in those holes so that the idea is that by the time that the the cool season production is done, the warm season production is starting to come ready to harvest.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's the idea all right and by the same token then as fall moves for I know we're talking about the spring garden but I just want you to visualize the cycle so now you've got these big squash plants you've got you know tomatoes and peppers then late in the summer you can go back in with cool season stuff carrots beets and and you can plant that in underneath these hot summer annuals so as they begin to decline in the fall now you have as you go into cool weather you've got really robust cool season stuff maybe maybe some peas um and certainly greens you know um swiss chard things like that and you've got that coming up robust so that now you've got three think about that three harvests out of that one bed that's the way you that's the way you run the season cycle and that's the way that's the way you you know you get way more production uh out of your garden bed by timing your timing your your um your production to the right time of season and keeping the garden bed full all the time wow that's really neat but my question is as you're growing these different plants in these different seasons I'm imagining you're taking nutrients uh from the soil right do you need to be adding like maybe more compost each time you plant something new not necessarily not not through the season now this is where uh this is where one of the biggest uh whatever challenges of small acreage places you know urban urban gardens suburban gardens things like that one of the biggest challenges of small acreage places is where do you get your fertility and so um so this is where the backyard flock of chickens some rabbits even a couple of pigs uh when Sean and Beth Doherty do homestead classes um I'll never forget the first time you know my my lights went on they were talking about the reason they raised pigs is I mean they like they like bacon but um but but more than liking bacon they said the pigs are the one thing that allows them to actually um develop a a good a big pile of compostable material in one space that that this is one of the weaknesses that one of the biggest weaknesses of home gardeners is what's going to drive my fertility engine now you're gonna go down to Lowe's or Home Depot and buy compost it's you know maybe questionable quality and and and hopefully there's somebody nearby locally that actually makes good compost there are plenty of people that actually run compost businesses and you can maybe make some and you can make your own you know with your own kitchen scraps and things like that but my goodness if you're gonna make compost out of kitchen scraps you might as well run them through chickens and get eggs from them and then you take your chicken scrap your kitchen scraps and and you turn them into not only eggs but you get the chicken manure.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then all you got to do is add some carbon to it carbon can be leaves you rake up from the trees in the fall it can be lawn clippings uh it can be you know some junk hay or straw it can be wood chips uh bark mulch you know go down to your landscaping place and or you know or if you've got you know um if you've got some trees around your place rent a you know rent a chipper for a day goodness you you you can rent a chipper for one day and chip you know a mountain of wood chips and it'll last you for eight years you know I mean unless you go to commercial gardening um and and those chips will just get better and better and better because they'll get they'll start to decompose they'll get black you know they'll just they'll turn into humus I mean they'll be wonderful and so uh so the whole composting end of this you know how do you drive your fertility that's another whole you know kind of a whole um um thing of uh to to deal with just just realize that one of the easiest ways to drive your fertility engine is with adding some sort of animal that can give you manure that you can add to wood chips, bark mulch, you know any kind of brown carbonaceous material and now you've got your compost.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've got if you've got really high fertility in these beds you don't need to add that every single time by any means but you are going to want to you know if you go through three cycles in a season you're gonna want to add you know three inches um next year and three inches over an eight by four bed you know is going to be like a a couple wheelbarrows all right and and so you know it it's not it's not huge but you know you you got to have a way to get you know a couple wheelbarrows of compost if you can and and some backyard chickens or a couple of pigs or some rabbits or something uh allow you to do that.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't use my dog's feces.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: No no that that's the one no no that's the one no you can use human you can use human you know if you want to yeah if you want to do the humanure thing absolutely absolutely the dog the dog and the cat are the two no's and and you know what I'm I'm not sure why Cena but uh generally yeah those are those are two no's okay but there's people who actually like they collect their own feces and oh yeah what mix that with like wood chips or something and then that's absolutely oh absolutely yeah you you you uh you read the um I mean the human humanure humanure book um it'll give you uh all of that have you tried that no uh I I I I I have plenty of cows and chickens and all sorts of other things um we we have not done that but uh certainly you know certainly uh worms you know you can have a worm bed and uh and worm castings are you know beyond anything uh worm you know if you can collect the worm pea I mean there's there's or or the worm you know worm juices um as a foliar that's a tremendous um fertility engine but I I don't want to get bogged down in the fertility we're gonna be out of time here soon but um but but the the main the main thing I want I want to point out on these on this bed is you don't ever want to let the sunlight hit the soil so um well except at the very beginning right like yeah right right right at the very beginning yeah you you it's it's hard it's hard to not do any but as soon as as soon as your little seedlings break ground and you can see where the rows are um then then you want to you want to put just I mean even if it's just half an inch something uh some sort of material on there obviously if you have extremely well rotted so John Moody has a rule of thumb he says here's how you know that that the mulch you put on is okay if you can't recognize the parent material the mulch came from so so if you can recognize you know this is oak oak chips and these are you know pine chips or whatever if you can recognize that or bark or whatever uh it's not broken down enough to put on and it will it will temporarily not forever it will temporarily deplete nutrients in your soil because it's going to extract nitrogen from the soil to break it down that may take a year it may take a year and a half especially if it's something like you know uh something harder to break down like like wood chips I I love wood chips but the the the tendency is to put the wood chips on when they're too green and they end up not actually adding fertility they actually subtract for a year until they actually break down enough to to actually become become um to where they don't look like chips anymore.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know that's that that's the idea.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: So will the wood chips break down on their own like if I have a pile of wood chips on my property and I just leave it there that's right will it will just break like wait like what wait a year or something and it will just oh uh no you'd probably need to wait I don't know three years oh it's it's a long time which is not for the impatient people which which is why if you can add manure to it see the problem is the chips are too high in carbon they need nitrogen okay in order to break down so so compost requires um microbes water air carbon and nitrogen those are the five those are the five ingredients for making compost and the carbon nitrogen needs to be about a 30 to one ratio 30 carbon to one nitrogen okay well wood chips are gonna be you know fresh wood chips are Somewhere in the neighborhood of, you know, depending on if they've got leaves in them, they could be anywhere from 500 to 1 to 200 to 1.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if like like if you're chipping a bunch of green.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Green, leaves, leaves are about 35 to 1.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't take, you know, leaves, you can put a pile of leaves, spray water on it, and it'll heat and it'll almost compost just you know, just from leaves, because the CN ratio is so close to the 30 to 1 magic, you know, magic number.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wood chips are very deficient in nitrogen, so it takes them a long, long time to break down, which is why if you add manure, which is high in nitrogen, if you add manure to the wood chips, you can make compost way, way faster.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, it this is a this is a a bit of a process.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, uh a lot of places like you can, you might even if if look, if there's a so if there's a sawmill around you somewhere, and you know, it's doing a sawmill kind of thing, you can often go there and you can go there with your little uh your little SUV and your little trailer, and you can peck around the edge of some of their you know their sawdust piles and their you know uh bark malt bark piles where they've taken the bark off, and you'd be surprised how much good black, oh I mean it's just black, that's what you're looking for, is that black, uh humicey, you know, um that that wonderful forest moldy leaf kind of smell.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because what you're smelling, what you're smelling are the are the mycelial, the mycelial fungi and the actinomycetes.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're actually smelling.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have that mulch pile right now on our property, and I think it's I think it's only been there for like a couple months, but when I go buy it, I smell mold.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a that's a good thing.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so so if you can if if as part of your whole garden, uh whole, you know, lifestyle garden planning, if you can add, if you can add chickens to it, especially uh seven, eight, nine, ten chickens, um that that will give you, you know, in a in a stationary situation with deep bedding, and we've talked about that, you know, the the carbonaceous diaper and the deep bedding.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, getting getting access to your own homemade, you know, four or five wheelbarrows full of compost a year is the difference between success and failure in a home garden lots of times.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean the alternative is going and buying compost, and that gets expensive pretty fast.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, so you know that's that's what you're that's what you're looking for.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the the other the I guess the the final point I want to make is water.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, this is too valuable to leave to the chance of rain.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you here in Virginia, even though you know we're considered temperate, uh four out of five summers we have a drought.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there are few things as depressing as putting all this time and attention in a garden bed and watching it shrivel in July and August.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what kind of water?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't want to use straight well water, it's cold, it's sterile, that's not good water.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: What you want to use is what I call living water or water that as closely approximate rain as possible.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how do you do that?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the ideal is to collect the water off of your roof in a rain barrel or some sort of a uh water catchment, you know, an IBC tote.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they make those two.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but if you can catch water off of your roof, now you've got rain water, and you let it sit outside so it gets warm, then if you need to water, now you've got actual rainwater that's at temperature.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because well water is cold.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming out of there at 52 degrees, and that's shocking to the plants.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're sitting here looking for a nice warm rain, you know, in July, and suddenly you hit them with 52 degree water.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's like you and I plunging into 10 degree, a 10-degree ice bath, and that's really hard on the plants.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's very stressful on the plants.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, at worst, you have a couple barrels sitting out and you just fill them with well water and let them sit.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let them sit for a week, you know, and get and get at ambient temperature.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you never want to use cold water on your plants.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: You want to use pond water, um, you know, uh warm rain barrel water.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: You want to use some sort of ambient temperature water so that the water that's going on your plants is roughly air temperature.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're looking for.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're if you're on a 90-degree July day and uh Cena in Georgia, you're gonna have plenty of 90-degree uh July days.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you you want your water to be, you know, somewhere in the 80 to 90 degree range.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, it's never going to be fully ambient temperature because water's not gonna warm and cool as fast as the air.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you definitely don't want to be putting something on there that's under 60 degrees.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: So prepare, prepare early.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't put it off, is what I'm saying.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: Don't put it off.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Prepare early to have a little bit of water ballast nearby that you can either, you know, dip with a bucket and and and and put in there so that you can strategically place water, because you know, a lot of times just you know a week of dry can cost you, you know, tremendously in plant stress.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then you've got bugs, or or you have uh timing, you know, timing delay.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now suddenly you're you know, now suddenly it's it's hard to get your third crop in because the second one didn't grow very fast because it was too dry.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm speaking from experience here, we have certainly gardened without dependable water numerous times, and it's always a huge, huge mistake.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, you know, you're garden these vegetables that you've lovingly cared for, put in, and you're anticipating some bounty from, you've got too much emotionally and physically invested in them to not have a good, ready, prepared source of of um of good water.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm using the word good water, not just water, but good water, so that if they need a little shot in the arm, a little boost, you know, you've got water there ready to go.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I never thought about that.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: I when I've tried gardening in the past, I always just gardened with my well water straight out of the hose, you know, like and it goes through my um filtration system.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I figured, oh, I'm doing a good thing for them.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I I never thought about the temperature.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what about the whole thing though?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is going down a little rabbit hole here, so I'll be quick.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, like I'm thinking of cold plungers in humans, and they're like, oh, that shock, you know, to the system, it it's healthy.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is that not true in plants?
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you shock them a little bit like that, it doesn't build in your resilience.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I've never seen anything.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can't cite you a study like you would, but um uh but I I have never every garden guru that I've ever read after um makes a point on this water thing.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Plants, I mean well, I mean, think think about it a minute, think about it a minute.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Plants you you and I, we can move around.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Plants can't move around.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Plants aren't animals, they're not people, they can't move around.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so in in in nature, um would a would a plant in July ever get cold water?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: It it it never would, you know.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: It it the water's gonna it's gonna get rain, and the rain's gonna come, you know, whatever it is.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't think I can make that analogy walk on all fours here for us.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, why would we have to do the cold plant?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I mean I I know that animal animals and plants are different, and plants are stationary.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're not.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we have some issues involved with our functional and immune systems and stress and all that that the plants don't.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because plants are plants are anchored, they're stuck right there.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so they have a lot of they have a lot of issues that we don't have because we can run, they can't.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we've covered uh just every single little item here, but I hope that that's enough to encourage folks to think about light.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: So start with your light and put your beds in.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I like a nice high bed, fill it with wood, put your little soil and compost on top, plant your cool stuff first, time it so that before your cool stuff is all out, you've already got your hot stuff in there growing robustly, and then do the same thing in the fall, and you can get three three cycles of production.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um do do small, well, not large, unwell.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: Keep things covered, keep the soil covered.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can add some chickens to your um operation that'll give you a couple of wheelbarrow fulls of good compost every year, you know, that's the that's the easiest, most functional way to incorporate, you know, multiple elements into your into your uh backyard garden.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is great.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is a great blueprint for for me, and I'm really excited to to start.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess now I need to go order my seeds.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Decide what I'm gonna plant and order them.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so um a lot of people, Cena, are intimidated by that process.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean you get the seed catalog, and my, you know, so where do you get them?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we like you know, Johnny's is good, but we've found um uh there there's an outfit, we actually sell them through our store now, and I'm I'm I'm embarrassed that I don't have the name of it right now, but these are some folks, they're they're based out of I think out of Missouri, where they've actually put together starter like 15 varieties of seeds to start with, you know, so you don't have to get intimidated by choosing all this stuff.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and you look, and don't be afraid.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh here here's where I'll say we might you know have a little disagreement here, but don't don't make this harder than it needs to be.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: If if if if a seed catalog ordering is too intimidating, just go down to your garden center and and and get get half a dozen seeds.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, don't worry about it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Get some sets, get started.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you can refine this to you know heirloom varieties and you know all sorts of things later.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the most important thing, I think, is to just start and get experience because you can't Google experience.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so just start start with something.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, don't the the That is so great.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: You come up with all of these like sound bites, and that's one of my favorite.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can't Google experience.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: You can't Google experience.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yes, that's so simple and profound at the same time.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sure is.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: It sure is.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just the the main thing is to just start and and you know, don't try to be the weirdest person on the block at this point.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: You there's there's time for weirdness later on, okay?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just you know, get some good old better boy tomatoes and some um good old, you know, uh um you know, California wonder bear bell peppers and you know, and just and just enjoy those.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then you you know you can you can start being a little more fringy uh later on.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: The thing is, I want you to have success first and let that snowball into the future so you continue to to stay with it and don't get burned out and frustrated by you know having problems.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that baby steps, and that's why I'm starting with one raised bet.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, um I would love to do a podcast on the bramble and tree fruits because those are the ones I really want to start planting.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we should do one on those.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um okay, do you have a community question?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Community question.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's see.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: How about we ask um how much this will be for folks who already have gardens, but um how much of your summer diet have you been able to grow for yourself?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: How much of your summer diet have you been able to grow for yourself?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not uh a diet of your your plant diet, not not necessarily your you know beef and dairy and all that, but of your your vegetables, your vegetables, your plant part of your diet.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: How much of that have you been able to grow yourself?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: 10%, 20%, 30%?
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, it it it you it it's it's amazing how fast you can grow, you know, 60 or 7 60 or 70% of your you know your your seasonal you know plant plant diet.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: And seasonal can be you know eight months.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can start early and go on into the winter.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: So what's your percentage?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I would say in the summer, uh, in the summer, we're often in the 80 to 90 percent.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I'm fudging a little bit because um trees and I've gone back in the early days when Theresa and I were first starting, we both loved the garden and we love to garden.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we had beautiful big gardens.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, good night.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: She she'd can eight eight hundred quarts of stuff, you know, every summer.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we just lived out of the garden, okay?
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, we just didn't buy anything.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and then, you know, as I've gotten busier uh with you know other things, I've become less dependable on the garden.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So then we kind of went to she said, Well, you put the garden in and I'll I'll pull it out.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, I'll harvest it, you make sure you get it in.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: We did that a couple of years, and um, and then I just got so much busier and the farm grew, and we have, you know, and and the thing is Daniel, who you know I dearly love, our son, he runs the farm, but he he never liked the garden.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what we did to mess him up or whatever, but he he's a he's a he is a true carnivore.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if he never eats um uh squash the rest of his life, he'll be just fine.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and so sounds like Donnie.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, he's he's he's total carnivore.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm um I I I love vegetables.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I enjoy them a lot.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so his point is that and of course he grew up, he grew up after the farm became a true commercial, viable, you know, viable entity.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Teresa and I grew up still in that, you know, dreamy, self-reliant, almost glorified homesteader stage.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we started.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then people wanted our food, and we, you know, and we we we you know built the business.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um he grew up uh a little bit later, of course, and he says, look, in the time it takes me to grow two bushels of green beans, I can raise$500 worth of chickens and go down to farmer's market and buy two bushels of green beans and can them if I want to can them, all right?
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely true.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely true, okay?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I just like the the emotional spiritual feeling of being able to walk out the back door surrounded by this this nest of abundance, you know.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got you know, plum trees and uh apple trees and mulberries and pears and uh the garden and and um I remember when Teresa and I grew, you know, those early days, we had strawberries.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: We'd pick strawberries by the five-gallon bucket full.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, you just we just ate strawberries just um and and and and so anyway, it's it's become a struggle because you know, Daniel's looking at it more dollars and cents.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at it more, you know, philosophical.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I I admit I can't make the garden, you know, I I can earn way more money doing something else quick and buying stuff at the farmer's market, but uh I I've just read too much self-reliance, you know, do it yourself type stuff, you know, and and and so this is where I'm so so Theresa and I are real excited that we kind of I I had this epiphany about these raised, about these tall, tall, raised beds with the with the um metal junk metal roofing.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: I knew we had some sitting around.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: We made a couple of these and we're just ecstatic about what we see.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got we've added uh what have we got?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: What six, we've added six more for this year.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, and our goal is to get to about 20 or 24 of these out through what the the place where the old garden was, we're just you know putting them out through there.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have all these beds and uh and we're we're pretty excited about it.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, 24 of them and just you and Teresa manage them?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that gives me a lot of hope that I'm gonna start with one, but I can have a ton of them that I can realistically do myself.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, realize that some of them will be, you know, will be um like strawberries, asparagus.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, asparagus is a perennial.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you put a couple beds of asparagus in, that's gonna be in for 20 years, you know.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so these don't have to be planted every single year, uh, you know, depending on depending on what you have in them.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I can tell obviously we're gonna now need a part two, a part three for this podcast.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: But okay, so this gets us started.
• 1:03:50
  unknown: No.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start from here and then roll on.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is fantastic, Joel.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much again for sharing your expertise.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm gonna really look forward to learning about the bramble and tree fruits from you.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we hope you all enjoyed this episode and we are excited to connect with you again next week.