Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Tim Thompson: Pastors, Christian Duty & America’s Final Great Awakening

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Tim Thompson: Pastors, Christian Duty & America’s Final Great Awakening · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:00
  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hi, friends, family and Christ.
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  Thank you for sharing the podcast.
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  I want to direct you to a website before we introduce our guest today.
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  Go to hourwatch.com hour.
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  Oh, you hour watch.com.
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  And that is Tim Thompson's website.
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  There's so much we're going to talk about today.
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  And I want to bring this brother in.
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  He's a pastor and the lead pastor, by the way, at four, 12 church.
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  That's in Temecula, California.
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  Those of you who are in that area, I'm blessed to be able to go check out one of the services
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  there or one of the Bible studies.
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  And Tim, brother, we talked recently, actually a couple of years ago, but it's good to actually
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  see you again.
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  Thanks for your time today.
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  Good to be with you, David.
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  All right.
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  So we talked, you know what, we didn't before we've talked about your book.
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  Your book is called Awake.
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  I love it.
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  Last time we did a radio program, we talked about this, but it's so very relevant and
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  needed to continue to talk about.
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  We'll get to that in a minute.
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  I want to ask you about Wednesday night live.
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  I see, you know, you're one of those pastors that believes the church should be engaged
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  and actually awake and the church should actually influence culture rather than what's
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  happening the other way around.
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  But talk to us about Wednesday night live.
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  I see you talk to Eric Trump coming up.
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  My goodness.
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  I love Stackelbeck.
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  Eric Stackelbeck.
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  You've got him coming up to Nesh D'Souza.
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  I guess you were doing that for a while and took a break.
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  So tell us about Wednesday night live.
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  Yeah.
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  Even for a while, while we had a building project going on, so we actually opened a new
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  our new church here recently, our new church building.
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  But while we were waiting for that to be built, we didn't have anywhere to do it because
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  he's got so large.
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  So we're looking forward to starting that back up again.
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  We do begin in October with, as you said, Eric Stackelbeck.
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  But what we're trying to do is bring on these speakers, Eric Stackelbeck.
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  We've got, we've got David Harris Jr., we've got, we've had Eric Trump out for these things.
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  We have some great speakers, Charlie Kirk's coming up.
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  We bring these speakers out to discuss these issues that are going on in the culture that
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  many people call political.
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  But what you and I know is these aren't necessary political issues.
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  These are biblical moral issues that the radical left has politicized.
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  But we look at these issues that we talk about on Wednesday nights.
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  These are God's issues, borders, God's by God's design, right?
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  Sexuality, life, marriage.
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  All of these things, God's design.
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  We go all the way back to Genesis and see that all of this stuff is by God's design.
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  He has a plan for it.
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  And if the left wants to politicize these things, that's fine.
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  But we're going to address them from a biblical perspective.
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  Amen, brother.
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  That's why I appreciate your voice very much.
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  And by the way, California is pretty blue.
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  I lived out there for 17 years.
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  But there are some, what I would consider, the remnant pastors and leaders, actually leaders
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  that are leading their flock, troublemakers for the kingdom of God.
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  And I appreciate you guys, Jack Hibbs, we've had him on the podcast and several others.
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  But on your website, ourwatch.com, I just want to read this and let you continue.
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  It says the church should be the greatest influence on culture and not the other way around.
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  It says, join Tim Thompson and our watch in the public square.
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  As we affect change and increase the influence of Judeo-Christian values, and then it talks
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  about government education, entertainment, and the family.
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  And Tim, one of the chapters in your book Awake, America's Final Great Awakeening.
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  This came out in 2021.
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  One of the chapters is what happened to the church while it was sleeping.
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  So share a little bit about that.
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  We remember we kind of surrendered during COVID and some of our freedoms and it was actually
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  astounding how America in general, but how the church responded in that moment.
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  And I think it would have been very different if you go back to what it says on the website,
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  if the church had been all along influencing and leading culture by faith and really not
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  being ashamed of the gospel.
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  Go ahead.
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  Well, you know, you look at what's taken place in America.
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  We've allowed the culture to dictate what the church does and, you know, we hear words
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  like tolerance and we think, okay, well, I guess it's a good thing to be tolerant.
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  But I don't find that in the scriptures at all.
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  What I find is we're supposed to be intolerant of sin.
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  Jesus says that we are the salt of the light of the world.
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  Salt is a preservative and we are to preserve righteousness and a community.
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  You look at America founded on Judeo Christian values.
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  And that's what that's what has made America great is the fact that we have been a nation
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  that's lived under those Judeo Christian values and that's been under attack for a long
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  time.
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  And in the name of tolerance, we allowed even into the church sinful behavior and talk
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  about it as though it's normal and either that or we don't talk about it.
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  You know, I've got many examples of that one just being the issue of life.
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  I've talked to a lot of pastors that will not talk about abortion.
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  They won't call it out as a sin because they're too afraid to have hurting somebody's feelings.
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  And what I try to tell these pastors is look, if you're worried about making a woman feel bad
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  in church because she's had an abortion, don't worry, she already feels bad.
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  What she what she needs to hear is yes, it's a sin, but no, it's not a sin God can't forgive.
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  There's forgiveness in Christ.
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  You can be set free from this, but that's not what they're hearing.
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  These pastors have neglected their responsibility.
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  They've abdicated the pulpits over to a culture and letting the culture dictate what's going
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  to happen within the church and it's it's really not good.
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  We saw the ramifications of that during COVID when many churches shuttered their doors and
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  allowed the government to tell the church what to do, which is it goes be, you know, it totally
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  goes against separation of church and state.
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  And by the way, that's not in the Constitution.
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  It's not in any of our founding documents that so-called separation of church and state
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  that Jefferson wrote in a private letter, the Danbury Baptist, you know, in Connecticut
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  there.
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  And I call it the second biggest lie in America, the separation of church and state,
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  the first one being evolution, but second biggest lie because people co-backed him.
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  How far do we need to go back to try to figure it out because it's good, it's important
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  to understand how we got here.
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  And now what we need to do, how Christians today must respond before we lose our country.
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  But it's good to go back and go, okay, when were the pulpits so silent?
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  Why did they start avoiding these issues?
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  Was it the 501C3?
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  Was it the fear and intimidation of those who are saying, oh, separation of church and
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  state, what are your thoughts on that?
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  Well, you go all the way back to the 50s, which is before my time.
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  Second, the 50s, a little thing called the Johnson Amendment, was put into place.
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  And really what that did was neutered a lot of pastors, caused them to be fearful to engage
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  in political discussion, afraid of losing a 501C3 for your listeners who might not know
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  what that is, it's basically a corporation and it allows people to operate as a church
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  in the various states.
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  And really all it does is it allows somebody who's writing a donation to the church to
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  write that off on their taxes.
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  Without the 501C3, if somebody gives to the church, then it's not tax deductible.
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  And really, that's all you lose out on.
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  And I tell my congregation, if you're given to the Lord for a tax deduction, you're
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  given the Lord for the wrong thing.
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  But so many people are afraid of losing their 501C3s and what we need to see as pastors
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  like Jack Hibbs, as you said, and I've done this as well, is we just look right into
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  the cameras as we're given our messages.
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  And we've said this many times, IRS, if you're listening, come and take it.
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  Come and take our five ones and they don't.
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  There's an entire site set up to try to get my 501C3 taken away from me.
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  People have sent letters to the IRS and they simply don't come after us.
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  And really all that that Johnson Amendment says is you're not allowed as a church
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  to endorse a candidate.
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  That's all it is.
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  And somehow we've turned that into you're not allowed to have any discourse in politics
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  at all.
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  And that's simply just not true.
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  And a pastor is an individual person, a pastor's well within his rights to endorse a candidate.
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  It's just the church itself that's not allowed to have.
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  So I think the pastors need to get emboldened to start engaging in these things.
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  We're losing right now because the pastors have disengaged and I try to tell pastors
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  this looks and if you won't engage, God's going to raise up a different pastor that will.
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  I hope sooner rather than later because we are running out of time.
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  We're not approaching the cliff.
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  We are on the cliff when it comes to biblical illiteracy, when it comes to, you know,
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  losing the freedoms of religious freedoms in our country.
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  Want to go back to something?
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  So let me just clarify that you believe, and I believe this too, that most pastors,
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  maybe in the churches today have been unnecessarily self censoring because of a
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  misunderstanding or ignorance of the Johnson Amendment, right?
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  Right, correct, absolutely.
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  So they're afraid to talk about quote politics.
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  You know, I have these conversations all the time, Tim, I'm sure you do too.
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  They call abortion a political issue.
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  I'm going, okay, what is abortion?
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  Oh, it ends a pregnancy, right?
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  It ends up, oh, what is a pregnancy?
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  They don't, once you got get down to the terminology, this is a preborn human being in a
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  mother's womb.
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  It is a living growing, dead things don't grow.
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  It is a living growing person, and you're saying it's okay to kill that child when?
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  And then they go, well, you know, then they kind of ham out back up.
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  So they call these political issues.
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  And that's what I think turns a lot of people away from quote politics.
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  You're quick thoughts on that.
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  Yeah, you know, I hear a lot of Christians.
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  They'll say, hey, we acknowledge this is a spiritual battle we're in.
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  Well, okay, then how is it that the issue of abortion isn't a spiritual issue?
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  You know, this at the very core is the worship of Molech, which is an ancient pagan god,
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  which behind that is, of course, a demon.
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  So this is demon worship, and it is satanic, it is very root.
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  And we have to talk about the spiritual aspect of this.
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  This is, we're wrestling not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers.
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  This is the spiritual battle we're in.
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  So to call it politics is very foolish.
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  And to disengage from the discussion is very foolish.
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  We aren't the salt of the earth if we don't address this.
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  And we don't push back on it.
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  You know, I don't, everybody's got different thoughts on 2nd Thessalonians,
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  chapter two and the restraining force.
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  I believe the personally, I believe the restraining force is the work of the Holy Spirit
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  and in through the church.
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  And we are to restrain evil.
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  And that's what we, what's what we've been called to do.
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  And imagine what would happen if the, the, the Holy Spirit wasn't working in through
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  the church doing that work of restraining.
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  Imagine how bad things would be.
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  So the church needs to be very engaged.
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  Allow the Holy Spirit to work in them and through them and be the salt of the earth
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  that they've been called to be.
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  And salt, by the way, stings a little bit, but it's killed off the bacteria.
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  So it's, it's important to know, yeah, what it's going to sting a little bit.
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  You know, we may offend some people, but the word of God says that it is an offense
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  to those who are parishing.
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  The word of God is offensive.
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  And we need to stop worrying about that.
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  Stop trying to be a nice guy.
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  You all say something that, that sometimes is controversial, but, but Jesus wasn't a nice guy.
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  And, and that's hard for some people to hear, but I, I always bring them to the story of the woman
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  at the well.
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  And Jesus went to her and said, hey, go get me your husband.
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  And she goes, I don't have a husband.
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  He goes, I know you don't.
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  You've had five.
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  The man you're living with right now, not your husband.
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  Now, that doesn't seem very nice.
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  Does it?
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  But it's loving.
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  He's bringing her to the truth and love.
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  And this, and he didn't stop it.
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  Yeah, you've had five in the man you're living with now.
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  Isn't your husband?
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  This woman went out into the community and said, you have to come here.
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  This man, he told me everything I ever did.
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  So Jesus didn't stop there.
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  He went on, but he brought her to a place where she was repentive.
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  And she knew who her savior was.
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  So we have to stop worrying about offending people, bring them to the truth.
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  And the truth is what's going to set people free.
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  Amen, brother.
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  I'm thinking of a paraphrase of a quote.
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  A real friend is one who tells you the most truth.
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  Whether it hurts in the moment or not, whatever's going to draw you closer
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  to saving relationship with Jesus Christ or back to God if you've been backsliding.
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  But when we come back, I want to talk a little bit more about the book awake.
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  And just what you've been doing, what you have been a part of.
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  I see you out publicly speaking.
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  And I know I think we talked last time you were, I think around that time,
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  going to a school board meeting if I remember correctly.
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  But a lot of things to talk about as your role as a pastor,
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  setting that example of a leader who's going out and trying to stand for righteousness.
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  And as Ephesians 5-11 says, do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness.
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  But instead expose them.
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  We'll be right back with Pastor Tim Thompson on World View Matters.
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  So thank you guys so very much.
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  Our guest today, Tim Thompson, and the book that came out a couple of years ago,
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  still very incredibly relevant.
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  It's called Awake America's Final Great Awakening.
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  Boy, that Tim, that sounds so final, that subtitle.
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  I believe it is, just because of my eschatology and the way I view the end time scenario,
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  I think America is seeing its final great awakening.
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  I think we're seeing a lot of what could be that we never thought might happen in our lifetime.
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  When you even think about, you know, stealing elections,
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  and that the people, they think their vote doesn't count.
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  And Christians not voting, and all these other things,
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  and what's happening globally with the WEF and the threats to our own sovereignty in the U.S.
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  But I want to go back to your book.
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  One of the chapters I wanted you to just share a little bit more on,
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  actually not more, because we haven't talked on this show on the podcast.
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  But chapter six is called,
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  how the church should have responded,
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  and why it's not too late, because Tim, a lot of believers feel overwhelmed.
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  They feel like, oh, these were too far gone, and it is too late.
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  So tell us why it's not.
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  Well, you'd look at several pastors that took a stand,
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  me being one of them, and I got arrested at the State Capitol here in California.
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  But they ended up dropping the charges the day before I was supposed to show up in court,
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  because they knew they're violating our rights.
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  So it's important to understand that,
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  that taking a stand for Jesus is always going to be the right thing to do,
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  always, and God will always protect us through it.
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  And let's face it, God told us, the Lord Jesus said,
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  you will have trials, and you will have tribulations.
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  In Matthew chapter five, we're told, blessed are those
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  who get reviled and persecuted.
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  When people say, all men are wickedness against you falsely for his name's sake.
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  So we have to stop being afraid of those things,
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  and we have to also understand that you're referring back to COVID,
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  you look at what happened with COVID and the restrictions they tried to place on churches.
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  In many cases, it worked, and many people gave in,
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  and we shouldn't ever think for a moment that they're not going to try something like that again.
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  So we have to be prepared, and we have to be ready to take a stand.
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  And I think, you know, as we look back now, you know,
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  four years ago when that took place, there's a lot of pastors who at first didn't take a stand,
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  and they were fearful, and then they had to wrestle with that fear that they were dealing with
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  and understand that that wasn't from God. God hasn't given us a spirit of fear.
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  And they started to understand, okay, he's given me a spirit of love and strength and a sound mind.
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  And these are the things that we should be walking in, because a sound mind says that the
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  measures that were taken were drastic over steps. That's what a sound mind tells us.
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  And also love, you know, love doesn't let grandma die in a hospital all alone. That's not love.
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  So we started to, and you know, being fearful and shuddering the church doors is not strength.
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  So all these things people wrestle with, okay,
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  I think the church in many ways was kind of shocked in that moment. We'd never seen anything like that
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  in America before, where the government was so drastically overreaching, and it was,
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  I think they just weren't prepared for it. And I think in many ways, if they try to do it again,
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  I think many, many more pastors are going to step up and not allow it.
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  Oh, I hope so. I pray that that's the case. I tend to not be as optimistic that that would happen,
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  but I pray that that's the case, because you know, it was almost like a dress rehearsal.
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  I think the globalists and the radicals and the communists and the Marxists, they saw how much
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  they could get away with. And by how the church responded, how Americans generally responded.
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  But I want to go back to something and ask you, so how would you respond, excuse me, Pastor Tim Thompson,
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  about if someone said, like, for example, a pastor, I hear this quite frequently, well,
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  I know you're involved in politics or whatever. I just want to be about the gospel.
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  I want just to preach the gospel at our church. How do you respond to that? Yeah.
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  Oh, you know, I get that all the time. People send me messages from other pastors and they're
• 19:02
  preaching about me. It's funny. They're 80% of their messages about me and why I should be
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  just preaching the gospel. And it's like, well, you're preaching an awful lot about me. Why
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  aren't you just preach the gospel? But, you know, we have to understand what the gospel is.
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  We see this in Colossian chapter one, it talks about the truth of the gospel. And the truth of
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  the gospel tells us that we are sinners. And that's something absent from pulpits across America.
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  We have to acknowledge sinful behavior. And all of the sinful behavior in our culture has
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  been politicized at this point, the transgender issue, sexuality, marriage, divorce, borders,
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  all of these things. They've all been politicized. And we have to understand the truth of the
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  gospel tells a person that without Jesus, they're going to hell. So we have to get back to reminding
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  people that all the things that are celebrated right now in our culture are wrong. And we're
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  living in times like like God said that they will call good evil and evil good. So our eyes have
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  to be awakened to that and then bring people the truth of the gospel. And the truth of the gospel
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  is without Christ, we're going to hell. Our actions are earning us death as far as Romans 623,
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  right? The wages of sin is death. And death is what? It's separation from God. So we need to be
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  reconciled back to God. The free gift of God is life, right? We have life in Christ Jesus. So we
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  have to bring them the totality of the gospel. And many of these people that are crying out,
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  stop talking about these these political issues that just preach the gospel. How are they preaching
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  the gospel? If they're not bringing people to an understanding of their need for a savior.
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  If they're if somebody doesn't walk away from church convicted by God's word,
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  chances are the gospel isn't actually being preached. Well, here's another observation.
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  I think a lot of I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. A lot of pastors, I believe,
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  mean well, the ones that don't go into it just thinking it's a paycheck. But for the ones that
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  really want to minister and teach the word of God, I think they mean well, but but some of them
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  they just want to teach the scriptures. But then how do you apply that? What do you do Monday
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  through Saturday? You can teach all you want to on a Sunday morning. But what is the Christian
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  responsibility, especially in a country with religious freedom and freedom of speech like in America?
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  Aren't we supposed to trying to draw people in and invite them to Christ and warn them about
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  their sin? If we love them, won't we tell them the truth? Your your thoughts on that being
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  effective outside of church walls. Right. Well, to be effective, you have to be knowledgeable.
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  You have to be biblically literate. And as you said earlier in the show today, we're living in
• 21:51
  a time where people are not biblically literate. So expository preaching of God's word is so very
• 21:57
  important, verse by verse, chapter by chapter. So the pastor can rightly say, as Paul said,
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  I have not shunned to declare to you the whole council of God's word. And what we're seeing across
• 22:08
  America right now is a lot of pastors not teaching the Old Testament at all and then picking and
• 22:13
  choosing the parts of the New Testament that they like to teach. So that way they could tickle
• 22:18
  you know, the itch they're tickling here, you know, tickle their ears. You know what I'm talking about.
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  So so people just you know, tell me I'm good. Tell me I'm okay. I want to walk away from church
• 22:26
  feeling good instead of walking away from church feeling equipped. And after all, isn't that what
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  we're supposed to do? Ephesians 412. The pastors and teachers are there to equip the church
• 22:37
  for the working of the ministry. And so the best way to equip them is to give them the whole council
• 22:42
  of God's word, not longhorn preaching. And a lot, by the way, longhorn preaching is when you
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  have a point over here and a point over here and a whole lot of bull in between. If I see a Texas joke,
• 22:56
  but we have long kind of a we have kind of a saying at my church, we don't like longhorn preaching.
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  We want we want the word of God first by verse, chapter by chapter, we want to know how to
• 23:07
  observe what's happening in the text and then interpret it rightly and then go and apply it to
• 23:13
  our lives. So and absolutely, you've got to and there's a lot of churches don't touch Bible
• 23:18
  prophecy and that's a head scratcher. That's one of the most amazing, inspiring things in the word
• 23:23
  of God fulfilled prophecy and and we can go on on that. But Tim, I want to ask you about how you
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  can be an example, not you necessarily, but you have, but other pastors that have actually gone
• 23:34
  out into the public square and tried to engage, tried to make a difference in love, but standing on
• 23:39
  the truth. Let's talk about a school board meeting. We know what's happening at the public schools,
• 23:44
  what they're what young children are being taught and sometimes without parental consent. What
• 23:49
  what I think you have been at school board meetings, you've spoken at them. How can you encourage
• 23:55
  other pastors? First, how did that go? But how can you encourage other pastors to get involved in
• 24:00
  those kinds of things to set an example? Well, you know, it tells us in God's word that we're
• 24:05
  supposed to pray for everybody who's in authority that we can live quiet and peaceful lives and all
• 24:09
  godliness and reverence. And the question to the pastor is, how are you praying for those who
• 24:14
  were in authority? If you don't know them, if you don't know what they have to vote on,
• 24:18
  if you don't know what struggles they have, if you don't know what's going on with their family,
• 24:22
  you know, I was challenged by God in that well over a decade ago where where I was sitting in
• 24:26
  front of a member of Congress and I had no clue who he was. He asked me, said, Pastor, do you have
• 24:32
  any questions for me? And in my mind, I'm thinking, yeah, my questions are, who are you? And what do
• 24:37
  you do? But this is a man who represents the district in which I live and the district in which I
• 24:43
  preach. And I didn't even know who he was. I didn't know what what bills he had to vote on. I didn't
• 24:50
  know any challenges he's facing. So it's very important to get engaged in these things. And they'll
• 24:55
  have people that will cry out, oh, you're being political. No, I'm being biblical. The Bible says
• 25:00
  I'm supposed to pray for this man or this woman that's in this position. Unless I'm there and I hear
• 25:05
  what's happening in the school board meetings and I hear what's happening in the city council
• 25:08
  meetings and the county board of supervisors meetings, if I don't see what they're going through
• 25:13
  and I'm aware of it, how can I rightly pray for these people? The answer on it, if we're honest
• 25:18
  with ourselves, the answers we can't unless we're aware of what's going on in their lives. So
• 25:23
  very important that we engage. And not only that, but also be ready to give council.
• 25:30
  It's very easy for a pastor to show up at a school board meeting and just observe. They don't
• 25:35
  even have to get up and say anything. Just be there and see the spiritual battle that is the
• 25:39
  public school system in America. Because I'll tell you, say it's Satan's playground right now
• 25:43
  because we've so abdicated our responsibility there. So if they just show up and observe and
• 25:50
  just pray through the meeting, just be there to pray and see what's happening and see the
• 25:54
  curriculum that they're about to approve for the kids and the policies they're about to make.
• 25:59
  You know, we just right here locally just got an email sent out to all the teachers in one of
• 26:05
  the schools here locally to no longer refer to the students as boys and girls. Oh my goodness.
• 26:12
  You know, so it's and I'm aware of this, but I can guarantee you there's I'm probably the only
• 26:16
  pastor in our valley that's aware of this at this point. Wow. A minute left, Tim Thompson and
• 26:22
  friends, I encourage you to go to hourwatch.com. Tim, do you see people waking up? Do you perceive
• 26:28
  that maybe more believers and more people? I know more parents are attending some of these school
• 26:33
  board meetings. Do you see more people waking up? What are your thoughts? I do. And let me encourage you
• 26:38
  in this. I have seen more pastors waking up. I've seen more pastors being to get engaged here in
• 26:43
  California. And I'm hearing about it in other states as well. So I'm encouraged by that. And
• 26:49
  and you know, also know this that and I've said this before, if if a pastor won't engage, he's
• 26:54
  going to raise up a new generation until the Lord comes back. He's always going to have somebody
• 26:59
  there to preach his words. So I'm seeing that and I'm encouraged by that. Well, that's good. And
• 27:06
  you're in the the belly out there in California, man. But you guys are doing some great work.
• 27:11
  Some of you, you know, Rob McCoy, Jack Hibb, there are many others. Joe Shimmel and a bunch of
• 27:16
  godly men. You're really making a difference. Tom Hughes. Tom Hughes. Tom Hughes. I've had him
• 27:22
  on the show too. You have great guys. Thank you for your voice. Go to hourwatch.com. Friends,
• 27:27
  especially to check out Wednesday Night Live. Glad you're starting that back up, Tim. And the Lord
• 27:32
  really will do this again. Thanks for your time today, brother. Thank you, David. All right. God
• 27:36
  friends, again, check out some of these websites that we mentioned. Check out some of the books.
• 27:42
  Very important, very relevant. And we are I think we are at the edge. We've got a limited amount of
• 27:47
  time. Who knows how long it's under God's sovereignty. But as we always say, God bless you and keep
• 27:54
  speaking the truth about things that matter.
• 28:06
  You