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Transcript

Grumpy Sunshine: My Husband on Romance · Romancing the Threshold

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[music]
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Last year, when I started the podcast, I invited my husband Jason onto the show.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: This year,
0:24
SPEAKER_01: he surprised me by inviting himself,
0:27
SPEAKER_01: which quietly delighted me because it felt that he wanted to participate
0:32
SPEAKER_01: in what I'm creating.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: He proposed he'd return once a season around our wedding anniversary,
0:40
SPEAKER_01: giving you a peek behind the scenes, hopefully a bit of humor too.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: What's funny is that the two of us talk about all this kind of stuff all the time.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: When we're sitting on the sofa drinking coffee, when we're driving, in our long walks.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: We talk about books and movies and tropes or whatever I'm reading that week.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: This time, I just press record.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Now, it is a bit odd to record ourselves talking,
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SPEAKER_01: so we may sound a bit stiff at first,
1:13
SPEAKER_01: but I'm sure that the more we do this, the easier it will get.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: And also this time, we have something special to share.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: We just got back from England on a trip full of stories.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: We watched the Battle of Hastings reenacted.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: We saw the Bayeux Tapestry at the British Museum.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: We got to visit Jane Austen's house in Chawton.
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SPEAKER_01: And we wandered the streets of Canterbury.
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SPEAKER_01: We visited Chatsworth, which played Pemberley in the movie Pride and Prejudice.
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SPEAKER_01: And all of these places were a little bit of a pilgrimage for me.
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SPEAKER_01: Every stop was my pick.
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SPEAKER_01: Well, except for the record stores.
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SPEAKER_01: That was all him.
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SPEAKER_01: So we hope you enjoy our conversation.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: And if you share a home with someone who watches you read romance novels
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SPEAKER_01: and quietly wonders what on earth is happening in those books,
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SPEAKER_01: make two cups of something deliciously warm and listen to this one together.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Come on, join us on the metaphorical sofa.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: All right.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, here we are.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Here we are.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Good.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me back.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for coming back.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: It's been a little while, yeah.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: It's been about a year.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: It's been about a year.
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SPEAKER_01: And we talked about it, you coming back to the podcast.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: About once a year, yeah.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Once a year.
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SPEAKER_01: And I saw it around a wedding anniversary.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: It could be a good time.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: It does make sense, yeah.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: But I got to say, this time you actually gave that idea of you returning to the podcast.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I thought it would be good for content's sake and everything like that.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: And having those repeating episodes seems to be fun.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: I know I like them whenever it's a recurring topic and you can kind of say,
3:05
SPEAKER_00: oh yeah, I remember the last one.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, this next one will be fun.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: What have they done or where have they gone?
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: But when you invited yourself to come back,
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SPEAKER_01: I was actually quite pleased because I felt that it was your,
3:21
SPEAKER_01: as we say in Brazil, your vote of confidence.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really like how it's grown and what you've done.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Everything around it is just totally positive.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, if I can, as you say, insert myself, sure, why not?
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Slide into my idea.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Slide right in.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, you'll have a place of one.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: So speaking of that,
3:46
SPEAKER_01: it's been a year since I launched the podcast a bit like flying by the seat
3:51
SPEAKER_01: of my pants.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: It does seem longer, but it has gone by pretty quick.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did took a little break in the summer.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: But it's going and I'm kind of at times surprised with myself that people have got
4:04
SPEAKER_01: to meet and talk to.
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SPEAKER_01: I have a few guests line up.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I have episodes line up to the end of the year already.
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SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm talking about.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: That's good stuff.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And I'm already inviting guests to come on in January and February.
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SPEAKER_01: So I am enjoying the process.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: It's that whole thing.
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SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to be in with the cool crowd.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: I didn't think I was being cool, but yeah, it's something.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: So since it's been a year and it's been about two years of me diving to the world of romance.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: It's been about two years since you've started.
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SPEAKER_00: And like, I would say really dove into the world of romance.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: So what have you noticed that's changed and maybe what hasn't changed?
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, you used to read a lot of nonfiction and now you read a lot more imaginative
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SPEAKER_00: and like, how would you say, just more creative?
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything in particular you noticed other than the podcast itself?
5:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of the analyzation of the stories and a lot of
5:39
SPEAKER_00: the seeing what makes these characters tick and then you talk to the authors
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SPEAKER_00: and you really get down and dirty into the gritty with them and they kind of open
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SPEAKER_00: a door for you and it all makes sense and it's really rewarding it seems and you get
5:57
SPEAKER_00: a lot of pleasure out of that.
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SPEAKER_01: And how does it affect you?
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SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's fun to talk about the creative side of things.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's not necessarily like, quote, make-believe or anything.
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SPEAKER_00: It's just good imagination time.
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SPEAKER_00: It's creative thinking.
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SPEAKER_00: It's creative writing.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: It's storytelling.
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SPEAKER_00: It's all of the pieces that go in between the lines.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed any other than the creativity and sort of the spark of
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SPEAKER_01: the imagination, any behavioral changes?
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SPEAKER_01: Should we have an intervention?
6:33
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Your book collection is getting bigger and bigger and your tallying score over there
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SPEAKER_00: of books read per year is going up.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: I think it's overall, it's really great.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: You seem to be in a better mood.
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SPEAKER_00: I think everybody that you introduced this to seems to be happier because of it.
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SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people find that it's a great creative outlet,
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SPEAKER_00: even if they're not writing or if they're not discussing or
6:57
SPEAKER_00: if they're not analyzing anyway, they do it in their...
7:02
SPEAKER_00: They kind of get that pleasure in their own way and they find a creative outlet,
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SPEAKER_00: even if it is just reading and maybe just making up their own little stories
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SPEAKER_00: in their head or maybe it makes them make a sticker or like, hey,
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I want to make a t-shirt or I'm going to make a book cover or something like that.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: So it just kind of brings them out a little bit and gives them that little creative push.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because when I started the podcast, I felt like I started out of impulse.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: I didn't really think about what I was getting into, per se.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and it wasn't just because everybody has a podcast?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: No, actually, no.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: And years ago, I did have my own podcast.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: You did, yeah, yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: That was pre-pandemic, in the before times.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: In the before times.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: In the before times.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: And then when I hurt my back, I kind of dropped that.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, understandably, I couldn't really sit for six months.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: So and then it kind of just I left that idea.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: And then it kind of sort of tickled my mind a little bit,
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SPEAKER_01: but I wasn't sure what I was going to do.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: And well, to be this came through, to be kind of frank, it was a bit academic.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: It was a bit.
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SPEAKER_00: Like dry and serious.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: The previous one?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: It seemed to me anyway,
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SPEAKER_00: like I really don't know too much about what was going on,
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SPEAKER_00: but I do know that it was very serious.
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SPEAKER_00: It was poignant, like you were very dedicated into it.
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SPEAKER_00: And this seems more fun,
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SPEAKER_00: like you enjoy it and like you get to have conversations with people you enjoy.
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SPEAKER_00: You're not like reaching out to...
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SPEAKER_00: Academics or researchers or people who have been kind of in the mire of,
8:45
SPEAKER_00: I believe it was astrology and psychology.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: It was more astrology and kind of psychological astrology.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: So the interviews had more of a healing, psychological bent.
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SPEAKER_00: So it seemed more on a serious note where this seems a lot more fun with a sprinkle of serious.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Where you get to the serious by having fun.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was kind of the other way around.
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SPEAKER_01: It definitely was more serious.
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SPEAKER_00: And this just seems like just good fun.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Good fun.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: So it's been a year now and I'm season two.
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SPEAKER_01: What would you like to see with the podcast?
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SPEAKER_01: What would you like to see it go?
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SPEAKER_00: From a fan point of view,
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I would like to see more interviews or more
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SPEAKER_00: outreach and more people reaching out
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SPEAKER_00: to you so that you can do this a bit more consistently and then maybe go on to...
9:44
SPEAKER_00: It sounds kind of trendy, but maybe some of the book reviews or something like that.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have your once a week or twice a month book review, something like that.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: I didn't think of that yet.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: You're kind of jumping on the bandwagon a little bit, so I understand why you haven't done that.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a bit saturated and a bit, it's kind of bottom of the barrel.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a big thing.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: I guess I just feel like...
10:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_01: I share my book reviews more written rather than talking
10:14
SPEAKER_00: about it.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're not trying to be influencers.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: You're not trying to be an influencer.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And my social media presence is, it isn't there.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I think, yeah, a little bit.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: More of like getting your fun and interesting ideas out there
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SPEAKER_00: so people can read them or listen to them from like a partner point of view or like
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SPEAKER_00: a husband point of view.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, I would really love to see this take off where I could quit my job
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SPEAKER_00: and you could support me.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And you could be my support.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could
10:49
SPEAKER_00: work for you or something like
10:50
SPEAKER_01: that.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: That's, yeah.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: That would be great.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would be great.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: You'd be managing all the brands.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I'd be taking care of all the website and social media and all the graphics
11:01
SPEAKER_00: and everything like that.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: But realistically,
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I would really like to start to see this,
11:07
SPEAKER_00: for lack of a better word, paying off more.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: I know it's out there and I know the need is there.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: So I guess it's just crossing over that threshold, which is really difficult to do.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Keep going and Finding the way, I guess.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: I keep thinking about how to transform this into something more, but still as a one-woman show.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: It takes a minute.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: It takes a minute, but.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: It does.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: But I really do appreciate an embrace before your, again, book of confidence.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: I think it's great that you found this that you really love doing.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: It is kind of like one of those things, well, what would you do if money didn't matter?
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SPEAKER_00: And it seems like this is that answer for you right now.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely a part of it, definitely.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Now, one thing that we noticed,
12:01
SPEAKER_01: and I really love it when you do it,
12:04
SPEAKER_01: when we're watching TV, you started naming the tropes.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: You were pretty heavy into telling me what the tropes are, so you trained me for a couple weeks.
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SPEAKER_00: And then you were talking about them while you were reading, too.
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SPEAKER_00: So this is enemies to lovers, or this is the age gap, or this is proximity, forced proximity.
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SPEAKER_00: The list is long and...
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it is so long.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: I don't know all the tropes.
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SPEAKER_01: I don't think anybody does.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: I think they keep popping up.
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SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of fun when we do watch some of these shows.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And even when you don't expect it, it's like, bang, there's a trope.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's one.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: So what do you think of tropes?
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Now that you kind of know a few of them and you're noticing them.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: It's a way of writing, especially for like film and television or if you're writing a novel.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a way to move along the plot.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: It's a character.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: It's something that's just part of the story.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Like even in our own lives, we have tropes kind of thing.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Mild manner by day and crazy man by night.
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SPEAKER_00: So whatever, stuff like that.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: I think it's just kind of part of life,
13:17
SPEAKER_00: but inside of stories and film and television,
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SPEAKER_00: it's much more dramatically pronounced.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: So in order to drive the plot or to excite the viewer or reader.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: I know I asked you this before, but now we're on the spot.
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SPEAKER_00: What's our trope?
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're the grumpy sunshine.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we totally are.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Who's the grump and who's the sunshine?
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: We'll let the listeners figure that one out.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Figure that out.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Put your vote in.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Who's the grump?
13:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this and we talked about this often.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: We do talk a lot just on the sofa or in the car.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: We do just kind of take walks and it just kind of rattles on and on.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And actually thinking about recording this episode,
14:10
SPEAKER_01: it was a little,
14:11
SPEAKER_01: and it may even come across a little sort of formal,
14:15
SPEAKER_01: but we're constantly talking about it.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: And I wish I had recorded while we're talking.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do talk a lot about stuff like this.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Because now that you sit down to just do the interview,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: it sounds a bit like we're going on a date or something.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or like this is a top level interview to be on my best behavior.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: When in reality, we're talking about this all the time.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: But about all kinds of things.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: But now that it's been,
14:41
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
14:42
SPEAKER_01: about a couple of years of me really in the deep end of reading romance and stories,
14:48
SPEAKER_01: what would you say to husbands out there or partners about romance novels,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: the benefits, the challenges when your partner is really reading?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's just start with the benefits.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I feel like for most people,
15:05
SPEAKER_00: it's a great creative outlet,
15:09
SPEAKER_00: but it's also a way to kind of spend time away from that humdrum
15:13
SPEAKER_00: of everyday just repetition and the routine.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to spend an hour or so reading about some fantasy or Omegaverse
15:24
SPEAKER_00: or whatever it might be, if that's the right term.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: That's one of them, but I actually have not read Omegaverse yet.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: I know you're not an Omegaverse person.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't read it yet.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: But the point being is that it's a good escape.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Some of the benefits I've noticed reading the romance and being involved in
15:41
SPEAKER_00: that is it is that creative outlet.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: It is that ability to just check out for a little while and go into imagination time.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: And it kind of gets rid of that routine.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: It's a nice break.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's an exposure to art.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like there's different authors,
15:59
SPEAKER_00: they're different artists,
16:00
SPEAKER_00: they create different worlds and they Helps expand your point of view kind of thing.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: You can read these things and you can start thinking about different people
16:10
SPEAKER_00: in your life or think about yourself just through these characters.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Some of the other benefits, some of the subject matter is fun to talk about.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So let's just say that.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: I think for all ages or single people or married or if you're together
16:29
SPEAKER_00: with somebody, yeah, it can be Stimulating, let's say.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Stimulating.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Stimulating, yeah.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
16:37
SPEAKER_00: overall,
16:38
SPEAKER_00: I think it's really great to see you personally like get into collecting something
16:45
SPEAKER_00: or like you found something that you really call your own.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And you found like a group of people and you found a community that are all
16:54
SPEAKER_00: into this in their own way.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: So like I've noticed all the people you've introduced me to,
16:59
SPEAKER_00: they are into this, but they're not into it the same way you are.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: And each one of them isn't involved or as dedicated as maybe the others.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Like some of the others really like it for me.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, one thing that we have talked a lot about this in reading romance,
17:45
SPEAKER_01: especially the more intimate scenes, the so-called smut.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: I personally don't really like the word smut because I think it comes from a creating position.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, sure.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel it opens up new conversations and ways to talk about things.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think I've said this in other episodes,
18:07
SPEAKER_01: I can't recall when,
18:08
SPEAKER_01: couples have benefited from the exchange of what romance brings into their lives and
18:15
SPEAKER_01: the conversations that it brings.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: What are some of your thoughts on that?
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, I do like how it breaks down the barriers.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Like it's easier to talk about things.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: So I think we were talking about the other day,
18:27
SPEAKER_00: it kind of normalizes the conversation of things that might be a little risky
18:34
SPEAKER_00: or it might be a little touchy or edgy.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: So it's not really coming out of left field when you say something or when I want
18:41
SPEAKER_00: to bring up something I feel important.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: In that area.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: So it's not out of the realm of everyday talk.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: So I find that extremely beneficial.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: I feel personally that I would love to see more men read romance.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've said that before.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: That's a little bit of a soapbox.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: But I would say that I think it just helps give it language.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we can start them on Hallmark movies.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you think so?
19:16
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's an easier entry point because they won't have to sit there and read
19:20
SPEAKER_00: by themselves.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: They can watch Hallmark movies, those romance where they finally kiss at the end.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Five minutes to the end.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Or like five seconds
19:28
SPEAKER_01: to the end, yeah.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would probably be a little easier barrier, a little easier start point for men.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, we had cable for a while.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: We had Hallmark channel editing.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Especially around Christmas.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: We watched so many.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: There's so many Christmas movies.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: My sense is you were watching it for me, but you were suffering through it.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, sure, I was because I felt them like droll and formulaic.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Just like, okay, I know it's going to happen.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: It's woman A goes to point B,
20:06
SPEAKER_00: small town B,
20:07
SPEAKER_00: and like it's Christmas and she falls in love with the butcher shop guy,
20:12
SPEAKER_00: the tree farm.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, on to the next.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: And then we were just cheering for the last five minutes.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: It'd be like, finally, this is going to happen.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Or we're so demented that we're like, oh,
20:50
SPEAKER_00: the mother-in-law is like secretly a murderer and she's scandalous and all of this.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Like we, yeah, no, sorry, wrong channel.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: We would use the stories as Hallmark after dark,
21:03
SPEAKER_01: create our own sort of various scandalous stories underneath the cookie cutter.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Hallmark slash Cinemax.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Cinemax.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, but you think so, really?
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Start them at Hallmark?
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Men can do it?
21:20
SPEAKER_00: I think men can watch movies easier than reading books.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a better starting point.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Starting point, yeah.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: And what would graduate as to Hallmark?
21:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm really not sure.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: That would probably be a better answer by you for different books.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Some romantic comedies.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think romantic comedies are kind of in the zeitgeist.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: People watch, we're really dating ourselves here, but like when Sally or Sleepless in Seattle.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Still the best romantic
21:50
SPEAKER_00: comedy.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Those kind of romantic comedies, I think everybody knows about those.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
21:57
SPEAKER_00: whenever you're starting to get into books and things like that,
21:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably not the person to ask.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, no.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: You're reading books, like you're saying, but you read other things.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: But have you said this,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: romantic comedies,
22:10
SPEAKER_01: we have watched some of the sort of the newer ones that they're baking.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And they are not, quote, romantic or, quote, comedy.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there's that problem.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: But when they are romantic comedies,
22:22
SPEAKER_01: one thing I noticed you, you notice about these stories that you've complained.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: When you see it, I...
22:31
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't noticed it until you noticed it.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I'm talking about?
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Something like the man doesn't apologize.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: The man doesn't apologize.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: He'll kind of do a grand gesture and he'll be like, oh, whatever it takes to make it right.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Or like, oh, I'm here now kind of thing.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: But they won't admit the fault or they won't say, I did this thing wrong.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: And they recognize it.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And I recognize how it hurt you.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And I know what the problem is and we won't do it anymore.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Why does,
23:04
SPEAKER_01: because when you noticed it,
23:06
SPEAKER_01: a few times you noticed it,
23:10
SPEAKER_01: your mood was a bit like, what is it that sort of jerks your cheek?
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Let me see that.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I think because it just perpetuates like the dumb stereotype
23:21
SPEAKER_00: that like there's no healing or there's no
23:25
SPEAKER_00: He thinks that you can just buy a big gift or that you can go on a vacation
23:32
SPEAKER_00: or you can show up at family gathering.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh,
23:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm here,
23:36
SPEAKER_00: but I really wanted to be home watching the game with my bros.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, but that's supposed to matter?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, no.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, you've got to, like...
23:45
SPEAKER_00: Say you've got to really point it out.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, you were wrong.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: And you feel bad about this.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: And you recognize that what you did was bad.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: No accountability.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: That is kind of my thing.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's your thing.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing that really gets you.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: It really does, yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: But another thing you did notice is that the men...
24:13
SPEAKER_01: In essence,
24:13
SPEAKER_01: when they're declaring their love,
24:15
SPEAKER_01: they're saying things that it makes it all about them.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's true.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, like, oh, you are the sun and my stars.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, you make me want to get up every day.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want any other woman but you.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's always I, I,
24:32
SPEAKER_00: I, rather than, like, we will have a better life or you are a reason to be better.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's usually all about, like, how he is feeling and it's really reflecting upon...
24:51
SPEAKER_00: And why does that bother you?
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it has a lot to do with writing and just the, like...
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Some of these movies aren't necessarily top quality.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: They're not Oscar winners, that kind of stuff.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's hard for actors to really push and hard for writers to really get across.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: But I think mostly it has a lot to do with.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, how would I say?
25:29
SPEAKER_00: It has a lot to do with the growth and the transformation of both of them and like
25:35
SPEAKER_00: the recognition of the partner.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: In this case, it would be her.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Like from my point of view,
25:42
SPEAKER_00: it's you and how you've been a better part of my life and you've helped me grow
25:49
SPEAKER_00: and you've made me experience things.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's been kicking and screaming, but it...
25:57
SPEAKER_00: It's more about giving you appreciation rather than saying like, oh, I'm better because of you.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: I guess if you were to really boil it down,
26:08
SPEAKER_00: maybe it is kind of the same thing, but it all has to do with how it's phrased.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: It all has to do with how you say it.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think some of the scenes,
26:16
SPEAKER_01: this is also in the books, but in the movies as well, is I agree.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: It's how it's written, how it's shown.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Because I do understand when you're in love and you're having that moment
26:28
SPEAKER_01: of declaration,
26:29
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
26:29
SPEAKER_01: especially you're going to say because of you,
26:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm inspired to be a better person,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: inspired to grow you or you make me a better person, that type of thing.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes the way they phrase it, it just makes it seem like it's all about the guy,
26:45
SPEAKER_01: but there's nothing really specific about the woman.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what bothers me.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: And there's a famous movie,
26:54
SPEAKER_00: I want to say it's from the early 2000s,
26:56
SPEAKER_00: and she is fed up with him and she's like, what do you want with me?
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the attachment kind of thing?
27:05
SPEAKER_00: And he says, you make me want to be a better man.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And like that's different than like I'm better when I'm around you.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: So when he says you make me want to be a better man,
27:16
SPEAKER_00: that's showing appreciation to her as in like it's not just any other woman.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: It's her.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: It's this individual person.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: And like being seen and heard in that specific way, he says that.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: I also think,
27:34
SPEAKER_00: and this is a bit of a beast that I see more in movies,
27:37
SPEAKER_00: haven't really seen it in books, but is when...
28:01
SPEAKER_01: When somebody asks the man, why do you love her or why her?
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And their answers are very generic.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kind of nebulous.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Nebulous.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, well, she makes my life better.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy when I'm around her.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy when I'm around her.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: I love her.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't seem like it gives me anything specific about the woman.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: That's when I think she just fell off the sky.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: It could have been anybody.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: And for whatever reason, she hit this.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I picked up this pretty object and now my life is better.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: What do you think of that?
28:36
SPEAKER_00: If it's in stories or if it's in movies or something, I feel like it's just bad writing.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like it's hard for people to articulate.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And then some people will think maybe it's cheesy or go a little too over the top.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: It becomes happy and unbelievable.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's be real.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to do a very good romantic scene or a heartfelt scene.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Like there's more going on than just the writing.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Like there has to be chemistry and there has to be the certain kind of timing
29:03
SPEAKER_00: and stuff like that.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: But I think...
29:07
SPEAKER_00: If you're saying like,
29:08
SPEAKER_00: oh, she just makes me happy when I'm around her, you got to do better than that.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's got to be more than that.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, yeah, it's just somebody off the rack.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, how do you think that affects,
29:22
SPEAKER_01: because if it's in the movies,
29:24
SPEAKER_01: good or bad, or in the books, how do you think it affects actual relationships?
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think people aren't giving it as much emphasis as they should.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: They're not trying hard enough.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact,
29:36
SPEAKER_00: I was listening to an interview earlier today talking about teenagers
29:39
SPEAKER_00: and early 20-somethings, and people don't ask each other out on dates anymore.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: People don't walk up and say, like, oh, hey,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: I like what you did with your hair,
29:49
SPEAKER_00: or this is,
29:51
SPEAKER_00: you're a good dancer, would you like to go dancing with me kind of thing.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Because, well, A, they can be humiliated, made fun of.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's got a phone, so the rejection happens.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: Somebody might be filming it, and then boom, it's out on the internet.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: But...
30:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't think people really have good examples anymore.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think people really can dig deep down and deliver that true romance type
30:16
SPEAKER_00: of line, that heartfelt type of just those vulnerable lines.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: Even if it is something you're writing for film or television,
30:27
SPEAKER_00: or if you're actually going up and saying it,
30:29
SPEAKER_00: it's It's difficult and it seems like it's harder now than it was before.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Like before I could, like,
30:36
SPEAKER_00: let's say it was college or whenever you could walk up to somebody
30:39
SPEAKER_00: and you could start strike up a conversation or you could start kind of talking
30:42
SPEAKER_00: to them.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: But now there's such a fear of rejection or something like that makes it pretty impossible.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Plus, not having, I guess, examples can...
30:58
SPEAKER_00: It's hard for people to kind of know where to start.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: They might try to think of something, but it just doesn't work.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: They don't have any frame of reference or they have to work a little bit harder
31:10
SPEAKER_00: to go read some classics or to... Well,
31:13
SPEAKER_01: this is where I think the movies,
31:15
SPEAKER_01: the TV shows, the books are the education because to me they come from the culture.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I do think more than entertainment, they...
31:25
SPEAKER_01: They also serve kind of an educational
31:27
SPEAKER_00: parameter.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, it's not a very good education.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: You've got a lot of these.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, take the big blockbuster movies like your superhero movies and stuff like that.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: There are romantic parts in there.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: There's a series that was on one of the streaming services and it is kind of romantic.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: It deals with a woman in her own mental health crisis and she creates this whole town.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say the name for legal reasons,
31:56
SPEAKER_00: but she creates this whole town and her imagination and her husband, he died.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: But she won't accept it.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And so she creates this whole world.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And there's the vulnerability.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: There's the romance.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: It's like being pried out, but it's damaging at the same time.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: So
32:18
SPEAKER_00: it's like she's in a bubble, but it's hard to find good examples.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: It goes by pretty quick, too.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: I think there really isn't much...
32:30
SPEAKER_00: That time spent on these emotional parts.
32:34
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: And to bring a real emphasis to it.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about like a love scene or something.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes those drag on a little too long.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't understand like, okay, they're doing it.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: They're in the bed.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Now it's just gratuitous.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm not 14 anymore and we're not seeing anything.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: It's nothing scandalous.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: So like we get it.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Like move along.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: We got the memo.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: We like maybe show some tenderness between them or maybe...
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Accentuate the moment or the period of time so we really know how special it was.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, those kind of things.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: It's either too quick or it lasts too long.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like super symmetry.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: But we're inundated with action movies and big things.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Or very, they're not necessarily dystopian, but I see movies that are very nihilistic in a way.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And but the stories of love and possibility down to the more common person may be
33:37
SPEAKER_01: a little less fantastical.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: That could be educational.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think we grew up in the 90s
33:45
SPEAKER_01: and a lot of some of the best romantic comedies were then.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: The 80s
33:51
SPEAKER_00: and 90s.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: But.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: I think we are missing a bit of that.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Movies that are approachable in that way, that you would go with your boyfriend or
34:00
SPEAKER_00: your partner.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, they were longer.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: They were a little more subtle and nuanced.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: They weren't smacking you over the head three or four times with the plot
34:10
SPEAKER_00: or like boy A loves girl B or girl B really wants to be with girl A,
34:16
SPEAKER_00: but she's torn because of social norms, whatever like that.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: It starts to become like just beating into you the plot rather than a slow, nice development.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so talking about the movies,
34:31
SPEAKER_01: one thing that we both dislike when we see,
34:34
SPEAKER_01: especially in romance movies when they show up.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: And what is that?
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's the sarcasm.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sarcasm and the like, oh, I'm not serious if you're not serious.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Or it's a way to deal with subtle rejection or something like that.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh,
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to put this out there,
34:55
SPEAKER_00: but if you don't answer in the way I'm expecting,
34:59
SPEAKER_00: then I'm going to reply with a little sarcastic remark.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Or I'm going to be just like, oh, yeah, whatever.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, I wasn't that much into it anyway, kind of thing.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it just, when I see that in the stories, absolutely.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm annoyed.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm pretty annoyed.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: It definitely feels like a younger generation.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: It's because they don't feel, they just don't feel feelings the same way.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: I think sarcasm is mistaken as humorous.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: And I also think it's a way to stay cool and
35:34
SPEAKER_00: not involved.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: That's true, yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing we're seeing in articles
35:39
SPEAKER_01: and it's what's showing up is People are showing that you're passionate
35:45
SPEAKER_01: about something is now problematic.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's looking the same.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to stay cool.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: And romance as a story in and of itself, and it's not new.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: This comes from the Middle Ages.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: It was about revealing that passion, the passion to be really into something or someone.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's the inability to kind of read signs and social cues a lot of time.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: I remember being like nine years old and was like, oh, this girl talked to me.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: She must like me.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: But no, she just wanted to borrow some pencils.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: But I was like, oh, my God, she is.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: She could be the one.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: And because I didn't know the signs, that kind of thing.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: And you get older and you understand, oh, sure,
36:31
SPEAKER_00: people are people and they're going to talk to you like they would anybody else.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: The real signs will be there.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: So when you can say like, hey, I really like how you dance.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to go dancing sometimes?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Like you'll be able to make an informed decision and how to do that rather
36:48
SPEAKER_00: than like, oh, well, I'm not really a dancer anyway.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: I was just asking you as a joke.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, we could go ironically.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Ironically.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: I hate that.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: I do hate that.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: But just to go back,
36:58
SPEAKER_01: because the part of the question is,
37:01
SPEAKER_01: what would you say to husbands or partners about romance novels?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: You stated the benefits, kind of then sidetracked.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: But are there any challenges you see?
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Maybe getting a little too involved or maybe getting a little parasocial.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Like that word's been coming up a bit more.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it just, it seems like in the world around, I've been hearing that word a little bit more.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So people get connected.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: To things outside of normal people.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: They
37:31
SPEAKER_00: get really obsessive.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obsessive and connected.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: People talk about the book boyfriend or something like that.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: And maybe take it a little too seriously.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: That could be kind of an issue for some people.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the fantasy gets a little too real.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Or they want it to be a little too real.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe there's some unrealistic expectations placed on your partner.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: I can't, well, I'm never going to be like six foot five and have sparkly...
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's right.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Than they would with their partner.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: It can turn into an addiction, maybe.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm totally spitballing.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: We haven't seen anything like that.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't know anybody who's really had a problem with it, like where we've had an intervention.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: No.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: But I do think,
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I feel that when you're in a partnership and you really get into romance...
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It can help open up avenues of conversation like we talked about.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: It can help.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: And with that, hopefully improve if there's anything to...
39:04
SPEAKER_01: That needs improving in the relationship.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it expands the relationship.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: But I feel that if the relationship was already perhaps in rocky water.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Dicy territory.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Then the books can become
39:27
SPEAKER_01: safe place to escape or to just be in.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: But it can then...
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Maybe isolate further.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: And it might be able to like fuel the fire of like divisiveness between the partners too.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh,
39:43
SPEAKER_00: such and such character would never do this to their,
39:46
SPEAKER_00: I thought we were fated mates kind of thing.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe taking things a little too extreme.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: But also on another aspect,
39:53
SPEAKER_01: it can actually allow one to see The trueness,
39:59
SPEAKER_01: the true aspects of their relationship with different eyes.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: And finally decide that, hey, you know what?
40:06
SPEAKER_01: This is not for me.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: My partner is not going to change.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: They're not going to recognize and acknowledge me.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: It might be the place of saying, you know what?
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I've had enough.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Come to think of it.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's probably a big topic for a lot of men out there that it might start
40:26
SPEAKER_00: to push in on that masculinity.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: It might start to damage a little bit of that fragile ego that a lot of men.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: So, well,
40:35
SPEAKER_00: how am I ever going to compete with a six foot five vampire from another planet like
40:42
SPEAKER_00: that?
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Has all of these abilities and can, quote, go all night.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Those kind of things.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: If I'm already on the edge of ego trouble, that could be a problem.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Maybe all of a sudden a partner's libido increases a little bit and is like,
41:03
SPEAKER_00: oh, is this about me or is this about the books?
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Are you fantasizing about such and such?
41:09
SPEAKER_00: So I imagine it could be a bit of an ego problem.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, we touched on this in one of our walks about that,
41:23
SPEAKER_01: because I do feel the book Boyfriend, as the cool kids say, is...
41:33
SPEAKER_01: If a man is feeling sort of, oh,
41:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm challenged by that,
41:37
SPEAKER_01: he might want to minimize and criticize or whatever, his ego is feeling tender.
41:45
SPEAKER_01: Because the book boyfriend, it's not so much that they have this magic or this power.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: If you look deeply, it's what they do.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: That's what they represent.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: The recognition, the acknowledgement.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: They will defend her.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: They will hold space for her.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: They will be vulnerable.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: They will open up.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: They will desire.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think these things are doable.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: For human men.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think so too.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: But if there is already a fragile ego at question,
42:16
SPEAKER_00: this is going to kind of put it on even more shaky ground because...
42:22
SPEAKER_00: That ego is going to be threatened by whatever ideal is this boyfriend.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: You've seen people get jealous for a lot less.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: So this is a big stack of reasons for people to possibly get jealous.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: So it's all ready and shaky ground.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: But that is just another reason why maybe...
42:46
SPEAKER_00: That partner isn't for you or you need to work it out with your partner.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: But for me,
42:51
SPEAKER_00: it's kind of like getting mad at somebody because they were mean to you
42:56
SPEAKER_00: in your dream.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: Like that it's not anything of their doing or it's your dream.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: It's how you interpret it.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: And unless you really act on it,
43:07
SPEAKER_00: like if you're or if you start to change your behavior or Because of these people in
43:14
SPEAKER_00: the books or because of what you feel is happening with a cool book boyfriend
43:20
SPEAKER_00: or you start to fantasize a little too much, then yeah, it's just another hobby.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just something you're into.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty much harmless, but...
43:32
SPEAKER_00: On the other side, it's inspiring.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: It's a good food for thought and all of those other positive things that come along
43:38
SPEAKER_00: with creativity and imagination.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, speaking a little bit of the book Boyfriend,
43:45
SPEAKER_01: every so often,
43:46
SPEAKER_01: but it came early in our relationship, Mr. Darcy, my
43:50
SPEAKER_00: OG book Boyfriend.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: He is kind of the original for a lot of people.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: For a lot of people.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And I remember it early on when we were dating.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: I said, oh, Mr. Doris, you're my Mr. Doris.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: You weren't too keen.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: No, because he's quite a character.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Like he symbolizes a lot.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of pressure to live up to stuff like that.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: How do you see him now?
44:17
SPEAKER_00: I understand it's a point in time and it's a character in a book.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's heavily idealized.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: That's the word.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: But as we've been together and read a lot of books and seen a lot of film
44:34
SPEAKER_00: and we've even visited Chatsworth to understand Sense and Sensibility of Pride
44:40
SPEAKER_00: and Prejudice and Jane Austen and things like that.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Where Mr. Darcy comes from, it seems more about like it's a term of endearment.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: It's something you say lovingly.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: It's something that comes across as a positive rather than like,
44:58
SPEAKER_00: oh, here's this really high bar to meet.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: You're my Mr. Darcy, despite not having Pimperly, but it's okay.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: But once we,
45:08
SPEAKER_01: more recently,
45:09
SPEAKER_01: we watched the movie again,
45:11
SPEAKER_01: the 2003 or 2005,
45:12
SPEAKER_01: which here at Nightly, the one where Chad Swartz is, and we talked about him.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: What are some of the qualities,
45:23
SPEAKER_01: some aspects of Darcy you saw and we talked about that you feel it could resonate
45:30
SPEAKER_01: with you?
45:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I really liked how he did the right thing without seeking recognition for it.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: He...
45:37
SPEAKER_00: If I remember right, he paid off a debt?
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he paid off the debt of Wickham.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he paid off an unfortunate debt that was really weighing on the livelihood of the family.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, it would affect the family.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: It would affect the family.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Lydia needed to marry.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And so he did that, not necessarily in secret, but it's because it was the right thing to do.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Not because it was his obligation or anything like that,
46:03
SPEAKER_00: but he saw that it was really putting the family into hardship.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't much of an extension for him.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: The payoff was that He I want to say that he would be able to live well.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a good deed.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And I think maybe it wasn't of their own doing.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: So they were kind of caught in a rock and hard place kind of thing.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would clear the name of the film.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: Lydia's sister would be her name would be ruined because she ran with Wickham.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Wickham had the debt.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: He paid off and made them get married.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and made them get married.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Clear the name.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, Liz
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Bennett would be.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: So it was a lot of aristocracy and a lot of social contract and things and just,
46:52
SPEAKER_00: oh, hush, hush in the corners and gossiping.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: But he did it.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Without any type of recognition,
47:01
SPEAKER_00: he didn't want to be the one like, oh, I'm the one that saved you.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: He didn't need any.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: I felt like that was really important.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: He was doing the right thing for the right purpose.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that really resonated with me.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think for me,
47:17
SPEAKER_01: I've said this to you already,
47:20
SPEAKER_01: one of the things I really appreciate about him is he makes mistakes.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: He comes off kind of a little too cold.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Maybe he's just really socially awkward.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: I think nowadays if he was around, it probably is social anxiety.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: And aloofness, but he transforms.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: He does, yeah.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: He's willing to transform.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: And does a good deed for her without expecting the parade to make the accolade
47:51
SPEAKER_00: in his honor.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't need to get a medal for showing up.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: It's all about that transformation and becoming something
48:00
SPEAKER_00: that he probably never even knew about.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: So being with Liz...
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Liz Bennett.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Liz Bennett.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: So being with her and being kind of exposed to her life and her mannerisms,
48:13
SPEAKER_00: I guess, showed him a different way of living.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, since we kind of touched on a switch of topics here,
48:24
SPEAKER_01: but we just came back from a big trip.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we went to the UK again.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Where's the UK?
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: And...
48:31
SPEAKER_01: Pretty much every stop on that trip was because I chose it.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: Except the record store that we went to.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: So.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's fine.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Give me, as they say, your honest
48:45
SPEAKER_00: review of the trip.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, this being, this wasn't the first time we were there.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: So it was a little less magical
48:53
SPEAKER_01: than me.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Earlier times we've been there,
48:56
SPEAKER_00: like we had talked like,
48:57
SPEAKER_00: okay, if we're going to go to Europe again, we're going to go somewhere else.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we've been there done and literally got the hoodies.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Not the t-shirt, the hoodies.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: So...
49:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:35
SPEAKER_00: It was a nice change of pace.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: We didn't do everything all at once like we usually do.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: We kind of split it in half.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: And that made for a little more savoring.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: We got to actually be a little more in the moment.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: To see some pretty cool places and take our time.
49:55
SPEAKER_00: We didn't have two or three things to do in one day.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: We just had one.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: Plus, it was a good thing because we didn't expect the cold.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: True, yeah.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Was there a favorite moment in the trip?
50:09
SPEAKER_00: I've spoke to a couple other people.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: I would have to say like right after we got there,
50:13
SPEAKER_00: so your friends cooked us the most amazing meal.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: He outdid himself.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: He really did.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Connor and Barbara.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Connor and Barbara and Sitting Born.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: If you like the country and really dark skies and quiet at night, that is your place.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was pretty fun.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: That was pretty cool.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: I liked just being literally out in the middle of nowhere.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't about being disconnected or anything.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: It was just more about being someplace new and being with friends and friends.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Eating really good food and like, wow, this oven, the stove.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: The aga stove.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know about that, but that is something.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Next level.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: We loved it.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: It was quite intimidating.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't cook on that thing.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't know what to do.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole process.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: This one is kind of warm.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: This one's really hot.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: You've got a cover over here and it boils water and it's always on.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't understand it, but it's kind of old timey though, right?
51:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: So like a farmhouse kind of thing.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think that was probably one of the best parts.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: Me, like personally,
51:28
SPEAKER_00: I did enjoy like when we went to First Record Store, I think it was Chatham.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: We went up there and we found all kinds of great stuff.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: It was just like back in the 90s whenever you'd go hunting through the records, go to the shops.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: So that was really cool.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Other than that,
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I know it was very nice for you to make the pilgrimage kind of thing to like
51:54
SPEAKER_00: a couple other places.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: And that meant a lot.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: So I was really happy that you got to do.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really liked seeing the Jane Austen cottage,
52:03
SPEAKER_01: that place she lived for the last eight years.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: And where she was buried.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: And Winchester Cathedral.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was amazing.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: I really liked the Battle of Hastings reenactment.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, we bookended our trip.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: We started with a reenactment of the Battle of Hastings,
52:23
SPEAKER_00: compressing 12 hours of battle into about 45 minutes.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: A lot of fun, total English heritage, like family day out, and your kids.
52:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, little kids playing with swords.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: Couldn't get better than that.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end,
52:37
SPEAKER_00: we saw the Bayeux Tapestry at the British Museum,
52:39
SPEAKER_00: which is a depiction of the Battle of Hastings.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: So it was pretty much like this bookended trip of the same kind of topic, which was really nice.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: What did you think
52:51
SPEAKER_01: of the tapestry?
52:53
SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing shape for being a thousand years old or
52:56
SPEAKER_01: whatever.
52:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been very well taken care of.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: It's one of these things that it's...
53:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's a record from that time of, well, explained by the winners, of course.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: The longest comic strip.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: It really is, yeah.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: But it's an important artifact, if you will, from that time.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: And it's really amazing to see that it's still relevant today.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's so savant.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: It has survived, yeah.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: It's very colorful, too.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: It's still colorful.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: That was amazing with that,
53:57
SPEAKER_00: that it's still colorful.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: You must keep moving along the tapestry.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: Do not stop.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
54:04
SPEAKER_01: They said that the whole time.
54:05
SPEAKER_00: The whole time, repeated over and over in the speakers above you, over and over.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: And people still stop.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: But the thing was long.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: I think it was like 300 feet long.
54:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 70 meters.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: 70 meters, like that, yeah.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe not 300 feet.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: But still, really long.
54:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very long.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: And I've been thinking about that in terms of,
54:29
SPEAKER_01: well, before I say what I was just about to say, what about Chatsworth, a.k.a.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Pemberley?
54:34
SPEAKER_01: What did you think of that?
54:35
SPEAKER_00: That was really overwhelming.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, so it was a museum, it was a house, it was historic.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a huge, it's like the grounds are gigantic.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the gardens.
54:46
SPEAKER_01: We didn't even see a smidge of it.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the weather kicked up and it was cold.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: We weren't about to go walk and run.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: The fountain was really pretty,
54:55
SPEAKER_00: but you could see really just how strong the wind was because
54:58
SPEAKER_00: the water was getting carried.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: But there's so much art.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: There's so many artifacts.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: There's so much stuff everywhere.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: It was hard to really...
55:07
SPEAKER_00: Understand the time and the history and the importance.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: And I remember asking you, like, do people still live here?
55:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, was it like this when people lived here kind of thing?
55:18
SPEAKER_00: And to some degree, yeah, it was like it was so ornate.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: It was so elaborate.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: Like there was so much stuff all the time.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: So much.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just really overwhelming.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: Like there's so much and it's hard to believe that people really live there.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: I think they still do.
55:36
SPEAKER_01: There's a part of it that's closed.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a part that's closed.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: But like seeing the bedrooms and like the poster bed that's 20 feet high,
55:44
SPEAKER_00: it just seems so elaborate.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: Like it was the way to demonstrate your wealth.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: It's just a different time.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: And like, I don't quite understand.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to drive around in a gold-plated Lamborghini.
55:58
SPEAKER_00: We don't need to show, oh, this is how rich I am.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Look at my money that I drive.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: I guess that's not what you do.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: Because I remember as we were walking through the rooms,
56:11
SPEAKER_01: you were like, did they really need to show their wealth like that?
56:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they did.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: They would have just such elaborate sculptures and like, oh,
56:23
SPEAKER_00: I imported this from the pyramids of Egypt or like,
56:28
SPEAKER_00: oh, we went to Turkey or this is from ancient China kind of thing.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, look at this rarity.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: I understand.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: Like maybe it's like having a rare book or maybe it's having a nice painting on
56:40
SPEAKER_00: the wall or something, but it's like, it's not just one.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: It's not just like, oh,
56:45
SPEAKER_00: look at this hand woven rug that we got when we visited Turkey or no,
56:50
SPEAKER_00: it's the entire room.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: And then it's the room next door.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: And then, oh, the walls are hand-sculpted leather carvings.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: And they're gilded.
57:01
SPEAKER_01: The wallpaper was leather.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: The wallpaper was really leather.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
57:06
SPEAKER_01: that was amazing.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't wallpaper.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: It was one of them.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: And, okay.
57:11
SPEAKER_01: And, well, what I was going to say is...
57:14
SPEAKER_01: I've been reflecting on this about the trip and the bookends of Hastings and
57:19
SPEAKER_01: the tapestry and then in the middle, Jane Austen and Chatsworth.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking all of this is about story.
57:27
SPEAKER_01: We were in Canterbury as well and we got to go to the cathedral.
57:31
SPEAKER_00: So Canterbury, Chaucer and all that.
57:34
SPEAKER_01: So more stories.
57:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: But I've been thinking about the power of story to survive centuries,
57:46
SPEAKER_01: to transform within those centuries,
57:49
SPEAKER_01: to have a life of its own,
57:52
SPEAKER_01: to create other things, and to help a whole country have a sense of identity.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: And the power of those who control the story,
58:04
SPEAKER_01: because the Bayot Tapestry really is William the Conqueror.
58:08
SPEAKER_01: He's like, I did it.
58:09
SPEAKER_01: This is the reason why I did it.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: And look at this monastery I burned down.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: Look at all these castles that I conquered.
58:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look at me.
58:16
SPEAKER_01: And he got to own the narrative.
58:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, So I don't have a conclusion for that yet,
58:22
SPEAKER_01: but I've been thinking a lot about the power of stories to...
58:30
SPEAKER_00: I think the story will change meaning over time,
58:34
SPEAKER_00: especially with whatever generation wants to put whatever meaning on it.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: They call it the greatest story ever told.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not a religious person, but the Bible has a lot of meaning for a lot of people.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: And it changes all the time depending on who you ask or what they're looking for.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: You can even take one of my favorite franchises, Star Wars.
58:57
SPEAKER_00: So you look at Star Wars from 1977, 1982, that kind of stuff.
59:03
SPEAKER_00: It tells a different story than the more recent Star Wars movies.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: I had the, quote, pleasure of watching the new one on the plane.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: It was the Pedro Pascal one.
59:17
SPEAKER_00: And that really didn't tell a story.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like a really long episode of some kind of action show where good guy,
59:26
SPEAKER_00: reluctant hero gets involved with somebody.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: And then like, oh,
59:31
SPEAKER_00: in order to do the right thing, I've got to do a bad thing for a kind of a bad guy.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: But it'll make up for it in the end because I'll be able to do a greater good thing.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: And then you sacrifice and you come back around.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: And then you started it all over again.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: It just seemed like this could have been an episode of a television show.
59:49
SPEAKER_01: It could have been an email.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: It could have been an email, right?
59:52
SPEAKER_00: It probably was at one point.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: But the story being told is different.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: There's different people listening.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: There's different people watching.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: There's different people with different ideals placing it upon these characters.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: Like you have some of these characters that mean different things to different people.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_01: And then back to Jane Austen here for me is I wonder what she would think when she
1:00:23
SPEAKER_01: if she came into this time right now and see what they have done with her stories
1:00:29
SPEAKER_01: and the movies and TV shows and fan fiction and everything else.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_01: What would she think?
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: What would she take?
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully she'd be a little bit honored, but she'd probably be a bit sickened by it as well.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, what?
1:00:43
SPEAKER_01: That was not what I was thinking.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_00: Not what I meant at all.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_01: One thing that impressed me in her cottage was not only is it small
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: and very thankfully well kept,
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: but one thing I really loved seeing was the little tiny table she wrote her novels
1:01:02
SPEAKER_01: in.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: And to me,
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: that was a perfect example of,
1:01:09
SPEAKER_01: depending on what it is, you don't need a lot to create.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_01: You need to focus and do it.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: And it was just enough to have probably two pages and an extra pencil,
1:01:20
SPEAKER_00: if necessary, and an area to actually write down the hard surface.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was very tiny.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: I knew it was small, but I was like, wow, it is very tiny.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_00: And she would move it about the house, right?
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: She would move it about, yeah.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: Depending on the time of day or time of year.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_01: Looking for the light, because apparently she, poor eyesight.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: Very poor.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_01: Now,
1:01:41
SPEAKER_01: another part of the story here is it kind of taps into the record stores is the kind
1:01:48
SPEAKER_01: of music you like was born in the UK.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_01: So what is it like for you to
1:01:55
SPEAKER_01: in the places where this music was born?
1:02:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, it was nice to go back.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like when we went to Stonehenge.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: So this was, what, 10 years ago?
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: That was 10 years ago.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we were driving across the south of England and we're like,
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: yes, let's stop at Stonehenge.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_01: As one does.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: Let's just stop at Stonehenge.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_00: That was all we had.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah, it was a point of interest for us.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: But I remember seeing it and thinking, well, A, I thought it was going to be bigger.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: And then it was like, it was grand at one time, but the energy is lost.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: It's a marker of a memory.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: So it's very much like going back to the good old days and spending an hour talking
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: about the good old times, but then you've got to go back to your life.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_00: So those times...
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: That lifestyle, like the energy that was there, like let's say the middle 90s.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_01: Just so folks know, what's the genre you like?
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's called Drum and Bass, Jungle Music from the UK.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: It's basically Bristol and like Leicester, London, that kind of thing.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_00: It's electronic dance music kind of.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: Not dubstep.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: Not dubstep.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_00: Even though there is some cool dubstep, but it's definitely not.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty fast and it deals a lot with like old school hip hop and stuff like that.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_00: But the thing that's really unique about it is that it was born and created entirely in the UK.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like how jazz is America's music.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_00: Hip hop is very much like created here, but it's...
1:03:43
SPEAKER_00: It has African roots.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: So like hip hop,
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: you can say it's from America,
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: but it's really, it's probably controversial, it's really African.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: But where in the UK, all this stuff was made from sampling.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: So like people didn't really create this stuff on their own drum kits and guitars
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: and singing and stuff.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: That didn't come till later.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: So it was all of this recycling stuff.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_01: So it was reimagining what they had.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_00: So they were taking tools that were thrown aside or they were speeding things up
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: or they were repurposing old records and taking parts out of them
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: on those old computers or just on the turntables and doing tricky things.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: But it was...
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: Completely born.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was kind of nice to see that, but it was more of a nostalgia thing.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: Like you wouldn't go into the record shops now and you wouldn't bump
1:04:38
SPEAKER_00: into somebody who's influential in the scene or making music or going
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: to see them perform later that week.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that just doesn't happen anymore.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_01: But in a way, what you described me about...
1:04:53
SPEAKER_01: This jar is interesting because they were using things that were kind of,
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: it wasn't theirs, they were sort of quilting it together.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: Repurposing, recycling.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_01: Repurposing.
1:05:04
SPEAKER_01: It makes me think of family.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_01: People who have written novels inspired from Jane Austen's work
1:05:12
SPEAKER_01: and now they have written their own romance.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of that fair use where they make it their own.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_01: So in many ways, it's also story, but music form.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: It is.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: And everybody tells their story in a different way and depending on what they had
1:05:29
SPEAKER_00: at hand or their...
1:05:31
SPEAKER_00: Level of creativity.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_00: They, they do their own thing.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: And so are you ready for some rapid fire?
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: So number one, who's more romantic, Mr. Darcy or Han
1:05:49
SPEAKER_00: Solo?
1:05:50
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_00: I think in the romance way, it would, It pains me to say this, but it's probably Mr. Darcy.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_00: Han is romantic because it's self-serving.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_00: I think it isn't until the very end where he starts to become a bit,
1:06:11
SPEAKER_00: is altruistic the right word?
1:06:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_00: He becomes a bit selfless and he's doing it for the other people.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_00: It's not all about how am I going to get paid?
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: How am I going to benefit?
1:06:25
SPEAKER_00: How am I not going to get thrown in prison?
1:06:27
SPEAKER_00: Where Mr.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_00: Darcy seems to have this
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: attitude and this demeanor where he does it because that's
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: the right thing to do.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_01: Just to compare, he does it towards the end.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_01: He does it towards the end.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, he is pretty aloof and he...
1:06:51
SPEAKER_01: Kind of, as you will, puts the kibosh between Mr. Bingley and Liz Bennett's sister, Jane.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_00: But is he full of snark and wit?
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: No, he's not.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he just kind of pushes it aside.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_00: I would say kind of cold.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_00: Kind of cold.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_00: Where Han Solo will, like...
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, sorry, your highness.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_01: Or when she says, I love you or something.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I know.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_01: Way too cool.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so points to Mr. Darcy.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_00: But it pains you.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_00: It kind of does because Han is definitely the cooler.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_00: He's probably somebody that I would rather be than Mr. Darcy just because he has more style.
1:07:37
SPEAKER_00: A little bit, as the kids would say, swagger.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_00: He's got the reds.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's got the reds.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_01: Now, if Mr. Darcy were a DJ, what would be his genre?
1:07:52
SPEAKER_01: What kind of genre of music would he play?
1:07:54
SPEAKER_01: And would he play vinyl or digital?
1:07:57
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_00: I think he would probably play some kind of like ambient techno, something like that.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: It would be...
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: More subtle.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: It would be like longer periods of without beats.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_00: It would just be more soundscape kind of thing.
1:08:18
SPEAKER_00: He'd probably play digital because he probably couldn't be bothered
1:08:21
SPEAKER_00: to carry around all those records.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised by that.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_01: I actually saw you were going to say vinyl,
1:08:27
SPEAKER_01: but now that you said it, I'm like, that makes complete sense.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_00: And he wouldn't...
1:08:31
SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't want somebody else to carry them.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's a Mr. Darcy thing to do.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_00: So I think he would just carry around a couple of USB sticks.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_00: If they had pockets, do they have pockets?
1:08:41
SPEAKER_00: They did have pockets.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: But it would be ambient techno.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it would be, yeah, very like moody.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: Definitely brooding.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but brooding and melancholy at times.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_00: But then it would, over about 10 minutes, it would get to be more active and pure and enjoyable.
1:09:00
SPEAKER_00: And then it might just, like a rainy clap, a guzibo, something like that.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_00: I think he would say very little as a DJ.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: He would just show up.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_01: Sly in, do his thing, fly out.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: Well,
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know whatever this new generation of these performative DJ people getting
1:09:17
SPEAKER_00: and dancing around and getting on the microphone and that kind of stuff.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_00: That's not where I come from.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm, it's very dark club.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm in the corner of the warehouse.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_00: I play the music and you're maybe watching me kind of thing, but I'm dancing around.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm too busy putting the music together.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a Mr. Darcy.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_01: Now, what's your favorite romance trope of the ones you know?
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of hard.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm not really a fan of, like, friends to lovers.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, God, no.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't like the forced proximity because I feel like that's, like, physical comedy.
1:09:56
SPEAKER_00: And I don't really like, like, they fight whenever they have to share the bed.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like, of course, you're both gorgeous.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_00: Just get it over with.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, you're going to share the bed.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: I think it's because it strikes kind of close to home.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: I like the grumpy sunshine.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_00: I like how one of them is like all upset and rubber all the time and the other one's
1:10:17
SPEAKER_00: a bit happier and positive outlook.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind of like the best.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: Drop it in the comments.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: Which one of us is grumpy or sunshine?
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_01: Your vinyl collection, my book collection.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_01: Who has the bigger collection problem now?
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, the bigger collection problem.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: Not just like the bigger collection.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_00: Just the bigger collection.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's a problem.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_00: Is it a problem?
1:10:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_00: When we move, it's a problem.
1:10:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like 50 boxes probably.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it isn't really a problem yet.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: It's not like a gambling addiction or anything.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: Thank God, no.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_00: No disrespect to anybody out there,
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: but I feel like it's still pretty healthy and it doesn't take up too much space,
1:11:04
SPEAKER_00: which is nice.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_00: I think we're pretty good about keeping it refined.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_01: Because I have books, so I end up having more
1:11:14
SPEAKER_00: bookcases.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:16
SPEAKER_01: Records are surprisingly deceiving in terms of what you think, how many you have in a shelf.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_01: And then when you tell me how many you have on the shelf,
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm quite surprised because
1:11:27
SPEAKER_01: it's a lot more than what I think.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_00: More than a hundred can fit in each of those.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay,
1:11:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: But I think, like, I stop myself from buying a lot of records.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_00: And I know it's more of like, I'm sometimes doing it because it's like a retail therapy.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_00: And I just like getting stuff in the mail.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:12:04
SPEAKER_00: But I don't think you have a book collection.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of nice how you will pick out exactly the ones you want.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: And like, oh, look at this one.
1:12:12
SPEAKER_00: It has this.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's this edition.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's this version.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: And oh, it has the cover from overseas or that kind of thing.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_00: I think that's nice.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_01: And I do try to go through the books at certain points and see, okay, what can I resell?
1:12:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_01: And donate.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now...
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: This is a repeat question.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: The podcast name is Romancing the Threshold.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what you said last year.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_01: What comes to mind when you hear that?
1:12:43
SPEAKER_00: Romancing the Threshold kind of means like you're walking up to some new experience
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: with like a death knot in your throat where you're like,
1:12:56
SPEAKER_00: oh, this is going to be amazing.
1:12:59
SPEAKER_00: And you kind of, it's kind of like before you knock on the door of your date to pick them up.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_00: So there's this little,
1:13:07
SPEAKER_00: little butterflies in your stomach about, oh, this was going to be really fun.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be exciting,
1:13:12
SPEAKER_00: but it's dangerous, but it's, it's going somewhere we've not gone before.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_00: I think that's, that's kind of what I feel about it now.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_01: I have to check the last episode to see, but I like your answer.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're welcome.
1:13:29
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me back.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_01: We'll continue our conversation as we go about our day.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:13:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: Until season three.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_00: Season three.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it again next year.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_01: Let's do it again.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_00: Don't be a stranger.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_00: Don't be a stranger.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jason, for inviting yourself back.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm already looking forward to seeing you on season three.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_01: But before you go, we left the question hanging.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_01: We settled on our trope, grumpy sunshine, but not on who's who.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_01: So we would love you to cast your vote in the comments
1:14:10
SPEAKER_01: and tell us why you are choosing who's the grumpy and who's the sunshine.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_01: And lastly,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: remember,
1:14:17
SPEAKER_01: whether you're crossing on your own or making a crossing together with someone,
1:14:23
SPEAKER_01: we don't have to white knuckle our way through it.
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: We can meet change with the curiosity of lovers.
1:14:29
SPEAKER_01: See you on the next episode.
1:14:31
[music]