Latest / From the Coach's Mouth / Episode 61: Dee Abrahamson

Transcript

Episode 61: Dee Abrahamson · From the Coach's Mouth

• 0:00
  Some people think that the right thing to do is to treat
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  everybody alike because that's the fair thing to do.
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  You know, I compliment you and I yell at her.
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  That's not fair. Why?
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  Why do you do that? So I think in the early seasons,
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  practice situations and stuff, you can start developing that
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  for them to understand that. The fair part is I'm trying to
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  help you all individually. Have the field in your car or on
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  the couch from the coach's mouth.
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  Welcome to the From the Coach's Mouth podcast with your hosts
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  Jay Bolden and Ken Krause. Hello everyone, and welcome once
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  again to the From the Coach's Mouth podcast.
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  This is Ken here as always with Mr. Jay Bolden.
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  Jay, sorry I don't have any fancy intros for you today.
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  That's OK, Ken, my wife gave me a bunch of compliments this
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  morning, so she made-up for it. But so no worries for you,
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  buddy. I appreciate.
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  Yeah, she took care of the compliments today, so it's, it's
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  a good day. But I do appreciate all the ones
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  you've given me overtime. But I want to ask you a couple
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  things. How are your lessons going with
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  your kids? Are you starting to see more
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  kids now that high school's winding down a little bit?
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  Well, it's been interesting because still not seeing too
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  many of the high schoolers, you know, some of them are able to
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  get in. They get in when they can.
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  Sometimes they get the last minute request and sometimes
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  they get the last minute cancellation when all of a
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  sudden a game was rescheduled. But I've also, you know, it's
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  the start of the travel ball season and of course a few
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  people are starting to go, oh, maybe we should look into this
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  and try to get a little bit better.
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  So it's been interesting. It's, you know, a little up and
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  down. I'm.
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  The only thing that worries me is, is I've taken in a few kids.
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  And then what happens when all my high schoolers come back or
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  presumably come back? You know, I think I'll be
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  working awfully hard this summer.
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  Yeah, that's a good thing. I actually like this time of
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  year because it slows down a little bit for me and then I can
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  actually get out and see kids do their thing.
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  So then do a couple high school games here recently.
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  I just this past weekend there was a finesse tournament, PGF
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  finesse tournament down at Crown Point and it was like 4 teens
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  and under. So I got out there, saw a few of
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  my kids throw a little bit. There's one this weekend out
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  here. I think the bandits are, are
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  hosting 1 here in Crown Point. So I'm gonna get out there this
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  weekend to go see some of my kids throw in the circle.
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  And I love that because it gives me some in game looks as to how
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  things are transitioning from lessons onto the field.
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  And it's really cool. The kids love it when you get
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  out there and support them. I don't get a lot of
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  opportunities to do that, but I do like to get out when I can to
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  go out there and show them support even outside of the
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  lessons. So it yeah, it's exciting.
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  I'm excited to get out there this weekend.
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  Yes, same here. You know, I've been able to get
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  out to a few high school games since.
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  It's been fun. I mean, I've seen a couple of
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  kids that I've given lessons to for, you know, 5-6.
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  Seven years is the first time I ever got to see him play live
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  just because I'm usually, you know, in doing lessons at the
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  time they're playing. I had one girl we had had a
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  lesson the night before, worked on a rise ball.
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  She's been pitching an awful lot.
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  So I said we are not going to throw any full pitches here,
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  we're just going to spin rise balls all day.
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  And then I got to see her out the next day in the cold, in the
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  rain, and that rise ball was just killing it.
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  Nice. Saw the movement there for the
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  apparent movement and it was just fun to watch.
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  And I think that's important, Ken, that's, you know, you bring
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  up a great point there. And I think for you and I, it's
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  really about the connections we make with the kids and the
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  families, right? Like, and so going out there and
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  being able to show support to those kids outside of lessons
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  and the families, right? When I go there, I'm usually
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  talking to the sitting with the dads and the moms, talking to
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  them about what it is and, and, and stuff like that.
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  And I think that gives that extra, extra incentive for us to
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  make connections with the families, not just not just the
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  players themselves. Yep, and it was nice because on
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  that particular team, I, I have actually 3 girls that I work
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  with. So I saw one of them pitch,
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  another one didn't get to pitch, but I did, you know, see her and
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  her sister hit. So it was just a lot of fun.
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  I was talking to one of the moms, you know, throughout the
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  thing. We were both huddled in
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  underneath the eve of the concession stand watching the
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  game from right behind the plate.
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  It was just a lot of fun to do that.
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  Hey, before we go on, I just want to real quickly
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  congratulate you guys. St. is a great Saint Xavier
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  Conference champions. Once again, congratulations.
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  Thank you. It's a sixth year on the in a
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  row, so that's huge for us. We should have the third.
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  This will be our third year. I believe that will have the
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  pitcher of the year and I also have a first conference pitcher
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  or first team all conference pitcher as well.
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  So our one and one a is really good and our even our twos and
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  threes are actually really good. And like I, you saw my post, my
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  my biggest thing, Ken, is that every one of those kids gets
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  gets better, not just my number. One, they must have a hell of a
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  pitching coach. Well, I think so, but you know
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  what, you'll have to ask my head coach.
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  I'm not so sure about that, but but thanks for that.
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  So you and I can go on forever here.
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  But I do want to, you know, since we were talking a little
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  bit about connections and families, I do before we
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  introduce this guest, I do want to say thank you to Katie
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  Campbell, who has helped us getting in contact with this
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  amazing guest. So Katie and Chris, thank you
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  guys so much for for putting us in contact.
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  But Ken, I don't want to give away who this is.
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  So I'm going to have you give people some information about
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  this amazing guest we have on today's podcast.
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  All righty. Well, we're thrilled to speak
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  with our guest today because she's not only a member of
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  several halls of fame as a coach, but she earned those
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  honors while leading the fast pitch softball program at my
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  alma mater, Northern Illinois University.
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  Go Huskies The Wilmette, IL native was actually a swimmer at
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  Western Michigan University, where she earned both her
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  bachelor's and master's degrees. While there, she got her start
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  in coaching as a graduate assistant before moving to
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  Lincoln Trail Community College where she not only won 152 games
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  as a softball coach, she also founded the entire women's
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  athletic program. She then took the job as head
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  coach at NIU. During her 15 year tenure, the
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  Huskies compiled a record of 416 wins against 286 losses and five
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  ties, making her the winningest coach in NIU softball history.
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  Her teams won 30 or more games in seven different seasons,
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  including a 40 win season in 1993.
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  She also led the Huskies to their only appearance in the
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  Women's College World Series in 1988 where they reached as high
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  as 10th in the national poll. She was named Conference Coach
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  of the Year 3 times during her tenure.
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  After the 1994 season, our guest then left coaching to embark on
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  a 17 year career in athletics, administration and NIU at a time
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  when women's collegiate sports were just starting to take off
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  in popularity. She started as an Assistant
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  Athletic Director, then rose to positions as Senior Associate
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  Athletic Director and Senior Women Administrator for NIU,
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  ultimately overseeing 12 sports. She also directed the internal
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  affairs units of the school's athletic department and oversaw
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  its transition back to the Mid American Conference.
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  Her passions for softball never waned, however.
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  In 1996, our guest became the NCAA Softball Secretary Rules
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  Editor, a position she held until 2015 and was the co-author
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  of the original NCAA softball rule book.
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  She later became a liaison to the National Fastpitch Coaches
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  Association and Amateur Softball Association, now USA Softball,
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  and served as vice chair of the Rules Committee and the
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  Equipment Testing and Standards Committee for USA Softball for
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  12 years. All of this work earned her
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  multiple awards and distinctions, including being
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  inducted into the NIU Hall of Fame, the Mac Hall of Fame and
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  in 2019, the NFCA Hall of Fame. She also received the NFCA
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  Distinguished Service Award for her lifetime dedication to the
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  sport of fast pitch. Only the second person in a 24
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  year period to receive this award.
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  But enough background, Jay. Ladies and gentlemen, please
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  welcome the amazing Dee Abramson to the From the Coaches Mouth
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  podcast. Welcome, Coach.
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  Wow, that's amazing. You guys really did your
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  homework and found some facts I don't really think about very
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  often. Yeah.
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  It's important for us to let people know that the people that
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  we're talking to are great people to begin with one and two
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  that have been around and seen it and done it.
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  So you know that your accomplishments speak for
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  themselves. I mean, we're that's why we're
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  super excited to to dig in with you today and and get into some
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  of these things. So welcome again, coach, we're.
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  Happy to have. Yes, for sure.
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  Thanks. We're going to start it out just
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  kind of how we start this whole thing out with everybody.
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  We'd love to get an idea, give us a little background on your
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  softball journey, both as a player, if you can, and then as
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  a coach. Just how did it all start for
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  you? Well, it's kind of an
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  interesting story because I never played the sport I admit
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  to at the time, being a Cub fan, and still am an avid Cub fan.
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  Yeah, so I understand baseball a little bit, but I never had the
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  chance to play softball or baseball actually, when I was a
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  kid. I grew up, I was a swimmer, so I
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  had my head in the water most of the time and learned a lot about
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  practice and hard work that way, but not so much about having my
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  feet on the ground. So my swimming background
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  actually landed me my first job out of college at Lincoln Trail
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  Community College downstate. They built a pool and we're in
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  need, desperate need of making it work.
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  The pool was empty most of the time.
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  People didn't come by and use it.
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  So they hired me with my with their goal of having me find a
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  way to program the heck out of it.
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  We had infant swim, we had senior citizen exercise, we had
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  teaching swimming lessons. We had diving lessons.
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  We started competitive swimming, although, you know, to have that
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  at the college level, you can't just jump in and take a bunch of
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  17 year olds and say, OK, now you're going to swim in college,
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  but that was going to take some time, but they were willing to
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  wait. And, and so that was really my,
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  my goal was to come in there and help them do that and then teach
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  in the physical education department at half time.
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  So when I got there, fall was great.
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  I learned a lot about rural Illinois that I didn't know
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  before. And I went through my fall fall
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  semester, got maybe halfway through it and and a bunch of
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  girls in my class came to me and said we need some help.
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  And I said, well, you know, I thought we were talking about
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  class. Like I said something stupid and
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  they didn't understand it or whatever.
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  And it's like, no, we need some help.
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  You know what the the boys who go to school here have athletic
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  teams. And actually they were pretty
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  good athletic teams, but there's nothing for us.
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  And we want, since you're female and we're female, we want you to
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  start a program. And I was like, OK, well, I
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  intend to do that because I'm thinking swimming now.
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  I intend to do that, you know, but it's going to take us a
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  while. But yes, you know, we're going
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  to have a Coed swim team here and you're going to have
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  opportunities like, no, that's not what we mean.
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  We want to play now. And it's like, OK, what are you
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  good at? And every one of them softball,
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  that's what they do in at the time and probably still now in
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  rural communities is that's what they do is they play softball.
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  And they said, and we're really good at it.
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  And it's like, OK, well, then that's what we'll do.
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  And so I went to the president, President Pylon and and told
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  him, you know, I have this interest.
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  What's it going to take financially to be able to do it?
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  And they were willing to pitch in for balls and a uniform for
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  us. We played at a City Park, so we
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  didn't have to worry about that. The players had their own bats,
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  didn't have to worry about that. So that very first spring I was
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  there, we played softball. And they played because they
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  were talented, because they were committed to it.
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  They understood the game. And I just tried to stay out of
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  their way and learn as much as I could as fast as I could, as
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  pretty good at, at learning how to drag a field.
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  So I could do that. I could drive a van pretty well
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  without their help. But pretty much everything else
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  they needed to help with that to teach me how to teach them to to
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  play. So that's what started their
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  athletic program. And actually it is 50 years ago
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  this year, this spring, we had a reunion and a lot of those first
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  time players came back and some of them brought their kids and
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  their grandchildren. So that was very.
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  And you were looking at them saying, man, all you guys got
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  old. No, because remember, I'm older,
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  so I don't, I don't, I don't play that card with them.
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  So that's what I do. It was really their desire to
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  play, their abilities that they had learned from all of those
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  probably dads in their summer programs for the most part.
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  And it's not like they watched it on TV or anything and learned
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  how to play. They learned the hard way.
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  And so they taught me fast enough, well enough so that we
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  could be pretty good. And at the end of the spring
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  season, they're like, well, OK, that was great, but we want to
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  do something year round. So how about we start a
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  volleyball team and a basketball team too, and we'll play.
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  I said, well, are you any good at it?
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  And they said, well, not as good, but we'll be OK.
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  So again, the president was great.
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  We were able to actually wear the same shirt, jersey, shirt
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  for volleyball, basketball and softball.
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  So we just had to come up with shorts to add 2 teams, you know,
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  so, and we already had the gym and balls were around.
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  So, you know, it was, it was pretty easy.
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  And so they were very, the, the school was amazing.
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  I I still to this day for somebody to come in and say,
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  hey, I want to change things up this much this fast.
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  They were great about making it happen.
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  We were OK in volleyball. We were less than OK in
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  basketball because kind of struggle with that, but but we
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  were good in softball and our second year we took third in the
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  state. That's how good my players were
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  nice and I just, like I said, I just tried to keep up, tried to
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  learn as much as I could and fell in love with the sport as a
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  coach. And so after four years, I left
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  there to take a different opportunity at Ken's alma mater,
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  Northern Illinois, to come up there and be the softball coach
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  and teach halftime and see where that took me.
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  It brought me a little closer to home, gave me a little bit more
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  chance to focus on something because I really felt after four
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  years, I, I, maybe the president sees it this way, I'm sure is
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  kind of created a monster. It's like, OK, well, we can do
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  this and we can play 10 games and everybody's happy and we
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  play 15 games. Everybody's happy Now everybody
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  wants to play 20, you know, And it's like, well, he doesn't know
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  enough to, to be able to, to do that, to take them on.
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  And I just felt like I needed to cut back.
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  I felt confident about my teaching and my desire to do
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  well at that. But boy, coaching 3 sports and
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  trying to learn was just just too much to you know, I just
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  didn't think I was going to be able to do a good job at all of
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  them or any of them. So the opportunity came up at at
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  Northern to be the head softball coach.
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  So I took advantage of it and moved N So that's how my
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  softball journey started with meeting some phenomenal women
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  who just wanted their fair chance.
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  Well, yeah. I mean, have sports, yeah.
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  There's a couple of things in there.
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  I think you know one of them when you know, we've had enough
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  people that have come in and they talk about the modern, the
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  way the modern game is structured and how everything is
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  so pre programmed and the coaches control so much and the
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  kids don't know how to think and and how to react to what's going
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  on in the field anymore. It was kind of the ideal
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  situation, I think for players there where they had someone
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  that could kind of manage the adult stuff, making sure that
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  there was a a van to get them to the games, make sure the field
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  was dragged, but the players got to play.
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  And then, you know, I think the other thing is you must have had
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  an amazingly progressive president because I grew up in
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  that same era and women's sports were not really much thought of.
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  I don't think they were disparaged.
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  They were just thought of as kind of like in the way, hey,
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  you guys want to go play? Yeah, go ahead and go play.
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  But it wasn't really encouraged or promoted like it is now.
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  So for someone to say, yeah, go ahead and start these programs
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  and do all of that stuff, and here's as much support as we can
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  give you, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, it was.
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  And, you know, I look back at adding softball, There was, you
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  know, the initial little startup costs and stuff.
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  And of course you got to pay for umpires, you know, I mean,
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  there's a there's that too, you know, So it is a financial
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  commitment. I think he was really happy with
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  that. I think, I don't know.
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  I, you know, I never really went back and talked to him or to the
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  athletic director, PD Highsmith at the time about how they felt
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  after the fact. Like, looking back, it's like,
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  because as soon as we moved to volleyball and basketball, now
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  we're talking about taking gym space away from the men's teams.
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  It's like, OK, well, the men used to be able to practice
• 17:35
  basketball whenever they wanted to because the gym was open to
• 17:40
  them all afternoon long. We used it a lot for recreation
• 17:43
  at night and stuff. But hey, if you want to practice
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  at one or three, no problem. Well, now all of a sudden the
• 17:48
  softball women want a time and it's like, OK, so now it's not
• 17:53
  just whenever you want to go, it's like, OK, no, and I want to
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  run practice a little longer because we got this extra thing
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  to work on. No, the women are waiting, so
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  they had to get out. So I'll be interesting to know
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  what they thought of it's like what was that really a good idea
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  what we did to do 3 sports all inside of 12 months?
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  Actually, they added three sports inside of 12 months with
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  softball being 1st and then the next fall.
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  So I would wonder what they think of did we make a mistake?
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  But but the good news is all those teams are thriving down
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  there. They still have them and and
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  participation, like I said, 50 years later.
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  So so I feel really good about hoping that they feel good about
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  it too. Awesome.
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  You built NIU into a nationally relevant program and reached
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  Women's College World Series, which honestly, I wasn't aware
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  of. I didn't know that Northern had
• 18:45
  ever been there. So that was kind of a revelation
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  to me. So what were the foundational
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  pillars of that success? Well, actually NIU had a really
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  successful beginning to softball coach Mary Bell started the
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  program in 1959. So one of the first ones around.
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  I mean, if you think about where women's sports were in general
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  in 1959, yeah, you know, yeah, that was very progressive.
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  That was the milk, the juice and cookies era where in my high
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  school. Yes, we did do that, yeah.
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  At my high school, after the games were over, you know,
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  they'd get out both teams together and they'd have juice
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  and cookies. That that is exactly true.
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  And it was it true here too, that we would have early on,
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  they would have what they called play days and you know, there'd
• 19:29
  be three or four teams and they would play field hockey.
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  Mary Bell, coach field hockey and softball, and she took that
• 19:35
  tradition from her field hockey to to softball.
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  If yeah, you would get together on the field and talk about just
• 19:42
  stuff and you know, is is amazing time.
• 19:45
  But anyway, she was incredibly successful.
• 19:47
  She won like almost 70% of her games over her 15 years in the
• 19:53
  program. I mean, she was, she really set
• 19:55
  us off on on a good venture. Then right after her, there were
• 19:59
  two coaches between them. They were there for maybe five
• 20:02
  years, again, winning more than 50% of their game.
• 20:05
  So, so it wasn't like I had to come in and start from scratch.
• 20:09
  I was inheriting some really good success tradition from the
• 20:14
  people who got there before me. You know, I inherited that
• 20:17
  tradition, that expectation from those those people.
• 20:21
  That was great. My initial goal was, you know,
• 20:23
  to just kind of expand the competitive opportunities.
• 20:27
  As opposed to overhaul the program, we're just looking at
• 20:30
  more games, better competition. We accepted invitations to three
• 20:34
  National Invitational Championships tournaments.
• 20:36
  So that was really good for the growth of our program and stuff.
• 20:42
  And then you know, and then you get into conferences and you
• 20:45
  learn to win conference tournaments and then you learn
• 20:48
  how to progress. So in 1988, we were selected in
• 20:53
  the original field. We won our regional championship
• 20:56
  and went went to the final eight, which was in California,
• 20:59
  which is a whole different culture than most of us were
• 21:03
  used to. So that was a great learning
• 21:05
  experience about how that happens, how things happen at
• 21:08
  that level and stuff. Had a great time.
• 21:10
  Although our two opponents is double elimination, our two
• 21:13
  opponents were the defending national champion and then the
• 21:18
  eventual champion. So we lost someone, run games
• 21:21
  and got sent home with two losses.
• 21:23
  But what a great, great experience for us and played
• 21:27
  really well. Just weren't weren't up to the
• 21:30
  task. I I thought the next year, I
• 21:32
  thought our 1989 team was actually probably better suited
• 21:36
  to go pretty far. But when you live in a world of
• 21:40
  conference championships and we weren't in a conference, so we
• 21:43
  didn't have that opportunity to win the conference championship.
• 21:46
  So now you're looking at getting an at large bid.
• 21:48
  You know, it's up to hard decisions of the people in that
• 21:52
  room. And we didn't get a favorable
• 21:54
  decision. So we didn't get to go.
• 21:55
  But I think that team was maybe a little better suited.
• 21:59
  And we'd had that experience in 88 of, you know, what it's like
• 22:03
  to play in front of a packed stadium, to be on radio.
• 22:06
  There was no TV on, but radio was a big deal for us.
• 22:10
  People could listen to us and listen to the game stuff.
• 22:14
  So there was, you know, just a lot of distractions to playing.
• 22:18
  And I thought that the ADA team handled it really well and
• 22:21
  learned. And then we tried to pass that
• 22:23
  along to the teams that came after.
• 22:25
  And we just never got, never got the chance to get back to that
• 22:30
  venue. But certainly lots of
• 22:32
  opportunities to do well in our conferences, the various
• 22:35
  conferences we've been in and the conference tournaments and
• 22:38
  advance as far as we can. So I want to ask you, Dee, real
• 22:41
  quick if you can, you talk about that 88 team going to the
• 22:44
  Women's College World Series and then you talked about the 89
• 22:46
  team that you thought was prepared probably more than the
• 22:49
  88 team. In your opinion, like and over
• 22:52
  your many years of coaching, what do you think separates
• 22:54
  programs that sustain success from those that just have like
• 22:56
  that one good year? You know, I, I think the on the
• 23:00
  field things, you know, I mean, if I mean you guys teach
• 23:04
  pitching so you know, more than anybody else, you know, pitching
• 23:07
  from a pitching rubber is the same all the time.
• 23:09
  So, you know, it's the physical mechanics of how you do that is
• 23:15
  the same in practice and in the game.
• 23:17
  And so after that it's all the atmosphere, the mental
• 23:21
  stimulation, the ability to not get distracted by other things.
• 23:26
  You know, I think the environment matters, the
• 23:28
  culture. I think feeling supported
• 23:31
  matters to, especially to women. Maybe that's a sexist thing.
• 23:35
  Maybe it is to men too. But I know it is to women to be
• 23:38
  able to, If I'm pitching, I know my defense has got my back.
• 23:42
  When I'm up to the plate, you know, my job is to get on base
• 23:45
  and then their job is to make me run and get me home.
• 23:49
  I think if you instill that then it's easier to to replicate that
• 23:54
  year after year and be competitive and then sometimes
• 23:57
  it works out for you and you get to net to conference
• 24:00
  championships or national recognition or whatever and
• 24:04
  sometimes you don't. Certainly having, you know, key
• 24:07
  players. We had most of our team were
• 24:10
  regional northern or that's what the what recruiting was at that
• 24:13
  time was also that way. So we had some really good
• 24:17
  student athletes on the national level.
• 24:20
  I don't know. We've had maybe five who have.
• 24:24
  I've had maybe 5 who've gone on to play professional softball.
• 24:27
  Jill Justin was a local talent, certainly on the national scene.
• 24:33
  She would have been in the Olympics if there had been an
• 24:35
  Olympic softball in her era because she did play represent
• 24:39
  the US on the national team. Beth Schrader, these are their
• 24:44
  names, not their married names, but names people might know by
• 24:47
  when they played around here. Beth Schrader was an amazing
• 24:50
  pitcher who helped us out. Julie Sexton, amazing catcher.
• 24:54
  Lloyd Reimer played shortstop for us.
• 24:56
  So we had some people who had gained a lot of experience in
• 24:59
  their youth, played high school, came out here, played for us,
• 25:03
  and then we're able to play on. And without that, we probably
• 25:08
  never have made, you know, the opportunities for everybody
• 25:11
  else. So if you get those key players
• 25:14
  and then everybody else supports the heck out of them, then you
• 25:17
  get a chance to advance as a team.
• 25:19
  You mentioned about pitching and what what constituted an elite
• 25:23
  pitcher in your era when you were coaching?
• 25:26
  You know, I, I think it's still the same idea of just the, the
• 25:31
  competitive attitude, the, the willingness to work really hard
• 25:36
  at a craft and achieve success with it because pitching is
• 25:40
  different than not that the other players don't work hard
• 25:42
  because they, they surely do. You know, they feel ground balls
• 25:45
  and fly balls and they throw and they do all those kinds of
• 25:47
  things. But you know, there are not very
• 25:50
  many elite pitchers who don't also take lessons or have
• 25:55
  specific pitching practices in addition to their regular team
• 25:58
  practices. So they kind of have a little
• 26:01
  bit more invested in terms of their time and and mental
• 26:07
  stimulation to be successful to contribute to the team's
• 26:11
  success. So I, I think that competitive
• 26:14
  attitude of I need to do more, I need to do a lot, I need drive
• 26:19
  to be successful at this job, because if I do my job really
• 26:22
  well, then the defense has a much better opportunity for us
• 26:27
  to be successful in the game. So, you know, I think, I think
• 26:31
  that's a big part of it is to, to be elite.
• 26:35
  You you just really have to be willing to put in that extra
• 26:38
  time above and beyond the other players because you're part of
• 26:43
  the game requires it. And their skills are a lot
• 26:46
  different. You know, when you become a
• 26:47
  hitter, there are certain skills that you're good at stuff.
• 26:50
  When you become a pitcher. Seems like we're always
• 26:53
  developing. OK, yeah, you got your fastball.
• 26:55
  OK, now let's start from scratch and learn to change up.
• 26:57
  OK, now let's start from scratch and let's work on this drop ball
• 27:00
  or this rise ball or whatever it is, you know, so they kind of
• 27:04
  have that turnover of different adding skills and not abandoning
• 27:10
  the ones they have because you still don't need to be able to
• 27:12
  throw your fastball where you want it to be.
• 27:15
  Yeah, and one of the things too, with pitchers, I think sometimes
• 27:19
  especially, you know, defense makes a mistake or there's a
• 27:22
  drop third strike or things just aren't going well behind them.
• 27:25
  Do you find that pitchers will tend to try to take on too much?
• 27:29
  Then they're like, OK, well I guess I just have to do this
• 27:31
  myself. Yeah, don't we all do that?
• 27:35
  Right. Yeah.
• 27:37
  You know, I mean, that's that's kind of what you do because you
• 27:40
  try to try to pick it up, pick up the slack, whatever that is,
• 27:44
  you know, in the job that you're doing.
• 27:46
  And sometimes that works out really well because that
• 27:50
  motivates you and you do sometimes it actually is a
• 27:53
  detrimental because you're now trying to do too much.
• 27:56
  I am, instead of thinking about the spin I want on this rise
• 28:00
  ball, I'm thinking about, well, my catcher better catch this one
• 28:04
  or please don't hit it to the left fielder because she's not
• 28:08
  having a day or, you know, and then then you lose the focus on
• 28:12
  your own part that that you used to have.
• 28:14
  Yeah, the process part. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:17
  So that it is kind of an interesting conundrum because it
• 28:20
  works in your favor and it works to your detriment.
• 28:22
  So if if a pitcher was having trouble, I mean, what if you did
• 28:26
  a mound visit or a circle visit, what would you say?
• 28:29
  You know what I that really for me depended on the picture try
• 28:35
  and maybe that comes from my own lack of experience that what I
• 28:41
  needed to do was to learn from them.
• 28:43
  You know, when and try and figure out in a practice
• 28:46
  situation, when I've asked them to do something and it's not
• 28:50
  working well, then I try to stop and go talk to him and then try
• 28:54
  to figure out, OK, that was not productive.
• 28:56
  What I just said was not productive.
• 28:58
  So if it happens in a game D do not do that again, you know, OK,
• 29:03
  so what's a better approach for that player?
• 29:06
  And and of course, we all have different days, you know, I mean
• 29:09
  our personalities, you know, you have a good day, a bad day, but
• 29:12
  if you try to learn a little bit about what, what helps them do I
• 29:16
  need to give her more information, some of my best
• 29:19
  pictures. What I needed to do was to make
• 29:23
  them laugh. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 29:26
  Mean, you know, just, OK, let's just take a second here, get out
• 29:29
  of, you know, the tenseness of this situation or your desire to
• 29:34
  be successful, which if you concentrate on your desire to be
• 29:38
  successful, sometimes you don't do the steps to be successful.
• 29:42
  So it's like, so, you know, I would just go out to the mound
• 29:45
  and say something else, you know, like, you know, I, I see
• 29:48
  our bus driver sitting in the stands over there and I sure
• 29:50
  hope he's sleeping because we're going to have a long ride home
• 29:52
  tonight, you know, you know, and they'll do exactly that.
• 29:59
  They'll they'll laugh. It's like, you know, well, you
• 30:01
  know, if we're going to keep him out all night, you guys, I hope
• 30:04
  he's doing that. So maybe we could help him out a
• 30:06
  little bit here by finishing this game off and then let's go
• 30:10
  back to focus. OK, You know, everybody, any
• 30:13
  questions about what we're going to do, how we want to handle
• 30:15
  this better? OK, let's let's do it and then
• 30:17
  walk away. I, I love that.
• 30:19
  I, I think that's a brilliant way to approach it.
• 30:22
  You know, Jay and I talk about that a lot is that, you know,
• 30:24
  just handling individuals with what they need.
• 30:28
  I think a lot of young coaches need to hear that is that you
• 30:31
  can't assume they're like you and they need what you need.
• 30:34
  You have to learn your individuals and learn how to
• 30:37
  speak to them in a way that makes sense to them.
• 30:40
  Yeah, I'll say this can too. Like, you know, when I go out to
• 30:43
  the circle, if we're in a moment where it's tense and we're
• 30:45
  struggling, the last thing I tell them to do is, hey, just
• 30:47
  throw strikes, right? Like you hear that from the from
• 30:51
  the bleachers every week and just throw strikes.
• 30:53
  It's like, what do you think she's trying to do, bro?
• 30:55
  Like we're not, we're not there yet, You know what I mean?
• 30:58
  Like, so I go out there and I just say we just need to get,
• 31:00
  you know, we need to detach from this moment, you know, take a
• 31:03
  breath and let's focus on some things that we want to do.
• 31:06
  Our postures got to get a little better or something of that
• 31:08
  nature. Not or I'll tell a joke like DI
• 31:10
  think that's great. Like you got to break the ice
• 31:12
  there a little because everybody's feeling all that
• 31:13
  tension. So but the last thing I tell
• 31:15
  them is, you know, we just got throw strikes, like that's the
• 31:18
  last thing. So I.
• 31:20
  Think one of the things that I had to learn early too, was to
• 31:25
  tell my pitching staff in particular, but kind of the set
• 31:30
  the mood with all of the players is that some people think that
• 31:33
  the right thing to do is to, to treat everybody alike because
• 31:37
  that's the fair thing to do. You know, I compliment you and I
• 31:41
  yell at her. That's, that's not fair.
• 31:43
  Why, why do you do that? So I think in the early seasons,
• 31:47
  practice situations and stuff, you can start developing that
• 31:51
  to, for them to understand that the fair part is I'm trying to
• 31:55
  help you all individually. What you may think is not fair
• 31:59
  is that I don't treat you all alike because that's not what
• 32:06
  you each need. Maybe is the same thing.
• 32:08
  So because I think sometimes when you don't help them
• 32:12
  understand that they think you play favorites.
• 32:15
  Well, when you go out to the mound, you always tell me this.
• 32:19
  And when you go out to the mound, you guys walk away
• 32:21
  laughing like that's not fair. That's like, well, I'm not, you
• 32:27
  know, it's just it's very sandy floored thing because it kind of
• 32:32
  sinks underneath your feet. And then sometimes not so much.
• 32:34
  But for them to understand that what I'm trying to do is is to
• 32:40
  treat you all alike, which is to be as helpful as I can to you.
• 32:43
  That's the alike part. The processes might be different
• 32:47
  for one to another. And that's not because I like
• 32:49
  her better or I don't like your parents or your parents give
• 32:54
  more money than their parents or any of that other distraction
• 32:58
  stuff. It's that, you know, I'm just
• 33:00
  trying to find a way to be helpful to you.
• 33:02
  And if that's not working then tell me and I'll try to find a
• 33:05
  different way. Well, and I think too, there's
• 33:07
  an element for coaches is we have a tendency to coach players
• 33:11
  the way we want to be coached or the way we were used to being
• 33:15
  coached. And that maturity level comes
• 33:18
  in. And I had to learn that
• 33:19
  certainly this player doesn't need the same thing as that one.
• 33:22
  You know, I I wouldn't like to be yelled at, but maybe this kid
• 33:25
  needs you to give him a hard time and this kid needs a laugh
• 33:29
  or she needs sarcasm or something.
• 33:31
  Some girls, you make them mad and they're going to perform at
• 33:34
  a very, very high level. It just kicks them in an extra
• 33:37
  gear. And I don't think it's just
• 33:38
  girls either. I think boys are the same way.
• 33:41
  Right? Yeah.
• 33:42
  So probably all are even as adults the same.
• 33:45
  You know, you just try to find out what what is helpful to help
• 33:50
  them perform at whatever it is that you want them to do and
• 33:53
  then try to provide that when you can.
• 33:55
  And then sometimes you just can't help yourself because you
• 33:57
  just go off the rails. It's like, I'm just so angry.
• 33:59
  I know I'm going to say the wrong thing so I'm just not even
• 34:01
  going to go out. There.
• 34:02
  Yeah. You're just out there going, you
• 34:04
  know. Are you trying to kill me here?
• 34:06
  Is that the goal? Yeah.
• 34:07
  Exactly. Exactly.
• 34:09
  Sometimes it's better to say nothing, especially with my
• 34:12
  youngest daughter, like when plays happen and they don't go
• 34:15
  good, sometimes I just, I don't even say a word.
• 34:17
  I just, it's better not to say anything and just she'll pick
• 34:20
  herself up and she'll, she'll keep going.
• 34:23
  Blue time out. Hey Jay, on a scale of 1 to 10,
• 34:28
  how important do you think brush contact is for pitchers?
• 34:32
  It's pretty high up there Ken, probably a 10 since it's hard to
• 34:35
  get maximum speed and or accuracy without it.
• 34:38
  Yeah I agree, but have you ever had a student who struggled to
• 34:41
  get good light brush contact? Sure, all the time, in fact.
• 34:46
  Especially when they've been taught hello elbow and are
• 34:49
  trying to throw around their hips or they're sliding their
• 34:52
  hips out of the way doing that crazy ninja move.
• 34:55
  So what? What do you do when you run into
• 34:56
  this situation? Keep railing on them until they
• 34:59
  get it right. I used to do that a lot, but
• 35:02
  then I learned about a product called Pitch Squeak.
• 35:04
  Ken, Pitch, Squeak. What's that?
• 35:07
  It's a cool little armband with a squeaker inside of it.
• 35:10
  Like a dog toy. Yeah, kind of.
• 35:13
  So how does it work? Well, you slip the armband onto
• 35:17
  the pitcher's forearm and you set it so the squeaker is where
• 35:20
  the brush contact should happen. Then when the picture goes into
• 35:24
  release, she tries to get it to squeak like this.
• 35:28
  If she makes it happen, she got brush.
• 35:31
  If there's no sound, she knows immediately and can make a
• 35:34
  correction. Wow cool, so she gets immediate
• 35:37
  audible as well as tactile feedback.
• 35:40
  Oh, there you go again, showing off with those big and technical
• 35:44
  words again. But yeah, she can feel it and
• 35:47
  hear it. Does it really work?
• 35:49
  You bet it does. I use it with my students all
• 35:52
  the time and it helps them learn how to get brush contact pretty
• 35:55
  quickly. If they practice with it.
• 35:58
  Sounds neat. Where can I get one?
• 36:00
  Oh, it's easy, Ken. Just e-mail
• 36:02
  support@pitchsqueak.com and Jason, the inventor of it and a
• 36:08
  Poly Girl certified pitching coach himself, will ask you how
• 36:11
  many you want and send them right out.
• 36:13
  I'll do that today. Thanks, Jay.
• 36:16
  What's that address again? Oh, you bet, Ken.
• 36:19
  It's support@pitchsqueak.com one more time for those of you who
• 36:24
  are listening, support@pitchsqueak.com and
• 36:29
  don't forget to mention in the e-mail that you heard about it
• 36:32
  right here on From the Coach's Mouth podcast and you'll receive
• 36:35
  10% off. Play ball.
• 36:40
  Yeah. I want to ask you a question
• 36:41
  because a lot of things have changed since you've coached.
• 36:44
  And when you talk about now developing pitchers, we hear all
• 36:47
  of these crazy, you know, all this stuff, technology,
• 36:49
  technology, technology, technology, right?
• 36:51
  And, and I'm all I'm on board with that.
• 36:54
  But how did you guys go or approach developing pitchers
• 36:57
  when you didn't have that with those resources and technologies
• 37:00
  that we we have today? Was it just more bullpen
• 37:04
  focused? Was it, you know, we're going to
• 37:05
  be more specific on spins. You know, I, I always say to
• 37:08
  some of the best teaching tools and Ken, Ken and I have talked
• 37:11
  about this all time is put the electrical tape on a, on a
• 37:14
  softball, like that's going to give you some of the best spin
• 37:16
  readings you're ever going to see.
• 37:17
  You don't need a fancy machine to tell you those things, right.
• 37:20
  So like, how did you guys go about that back in the day when
• 37:22
  you didn't have resources like rap Soto and pitch Logic and and
• 37:26
  all that stuff? Yeah, actually I think the only
• 37:30
  technology, the only thing we had the plugged in at all was
• 37:34
  videotape. You know, we did have have that
• 37:36
  ability to, but that's an after the fact thing, you know, it's
• 37:40
  not. Then that was at that time it
• 37:41
  was a giant camera with a recorder strapped over your
• 37:45
  shoulder. Yeah, or it was on a tripod, you
• 37:48
  know, behind either the picture or the catcher.
• 37:51
  You had to trust your catcher if you were going to put your
• 37:52
  camera behind them because, you know, 1 bad pitch.
• 37:55
  And now we don't have a camera for the rest of the year, but
• 37:58
  you know, so you put it behind the pitcher.
• 38:00
  So then you don't quite see as much because when she throws
• 38:04
  this pitch, she ends over here now in front of the ball.
• 38:07
  You don't even see it, you know, that kind of thing.
• 38:09
  So we did have that. That was helpful.
• 38:12
  We threw a lot to, to pitching targets again, you know, we, we
• 38:17
  had limited space for practices. We, we practiced.
• 38:22
  I mean, you got to remember we played, started playing in
• 38:24
  February, late February, early March.
• 38:27
  So all our practices were on a gym floor, which doesn't quite
• 38:30
  give you the same hops as either the outfield grass or the
• 38:33
  infield dirt. So we had two batting cages, but
• 38:37
  that's it. So out of those two cages, you
• 38:40
  had to find time for your pitchers to throw for their
• 38:43
  pitching practice. You had to have time for your
• 38:45
  batters to hit off a tease off of pitching machines, off of
• 38:48
  pitchers. So you know it was.
• 38:51
  And you couldn't exactly go on to Amazon and buy a pitching mat
• 38:53
  either. That's right.
• 38:55
  We didn't that's that's exactly right.
• 38:57
  We actually took the time to tape a slab of rubber to the
• 39:00
  floor every day for practice. It just is so different now to
• 39:04
  have the instant feedback. I think some people thrive in
• 39:08
  that and some people don't. Some people too much information
• 39:12
  is just that it's too much information.
• 39:14
  I can't, you know, process all that in in the middle of of it.
• 39:19
  But I think I think it's it's a tremendous help after the fact,
• 39:24
  you know, for you to after a practice to be able to go back
• 39:26
  and look at something or after you've worked on a a particular
• 39:31
  pitch you're working on and you've been trying spin, you
• 39:34
  know, to be able to look and say, Hey, it really is spinning
• 39:36
  in the direction that I'm trying to get or I'm getting the
• 39:39
  revolutions that I was looking at where before it was the
• 39:42
  catcher saying good job, you know, that was it, you got it.
• 39:46
  Now do that again, you know, so it is definitely definitely
• 39:51
  different and can probably probably somewhere in between
• 39:56
  not having having as little as we had and then especially on
• 40:01
  the youth in high school level of trying to do what you know
• 40:05
  some of the bigger college programs have.
• 40:08
  That's too much, too much info. And I think being in between
• 40:12
  there is probably the safest spot for most of us to be so
• 40:16
  that you do still. Rely on what you see, what your
• 40:20
  eyes tell you, what you feel and not just what the readings are
• 40:25
  on on a post activity report of what you did.
• 40:31
  You've seen a a a lot, you know, both as a coach and as an
• 40:34
  administrator. How do you think the mindset of
• 40:37
  athletes has changed over the years?
• 40:40
  Well, I, I, I hope they still play because they love the game,
• 40:43
  you know, they, they love the challenges of the game, they
• 40:45
  love the team part of the game, you know, the exhilaration of
• 40:49
  accomplishing something individually and collectively
• 40:51
  all at the same time. So I really do hope that we
• 40:55
  don't do things to take that away because I, I do think
• 40:58
  that's the best of all worlds. Now, I do understand that some
• 41:02
  people play because that's their ticket to college.
• 41:05
  Certainly that, you know, financially that's a big deal
• 41:08
  For some of them, it's their ticket away from having to work
• 41:12
  because their parents say after school, if you're not going to
• 41:16
  play sports, then get a job. Hopefully most of them will have
• 41:20
  decades to get a job and to learn what you learn from from
• 41:25
  that experience. But for some to have to do that
• 41:29
  in high school, if they don't play a sport, that's reason
• 41:31
  enough to play the sport is to avoid, you know, the
• 41:35
  alternative. Or if you're not going to play a
• 41:37
  sport, then come home and take care of your little brother and
• 41:40
  sister. It's like, that's not what I
• 41:41
  want to do, so I'll OK, I'll play.
• 41:43
  So it becomes a distraction. But for some, I think that
• 41:46
  forces them into that decision. But then hopefully most of them
• 41:49
  learn to love it that wow, I'm really glad I did that.
• 41:53
  I'm really glad I was a part of that team.
• 41:55
  I'm really glad I got to know my my 2 best friends that I never
• 41:59
  would have met in any other because I go to a different
• 42:02
  school or my school's too big. I never would have met them.
• 42:05
  But now they're my 2 best friends and sport softball
• 42:10
  brought me to that. And so, you know, I hope they
• 42:13
  find some redeeming factor if what actually got them to the
• 42:17
  table was something negative of trying to avoid the alternative.
• 42:22
  So maybe something that you know, and for some of them, you
• 42:25
  know, it's it's I think it's a it's a great bonding experience
• 42:29
  for families because when you come home, hopefully when you
• 42:33
  come home from school, every once in a while, somebody at the
• 42:35
  dinner table asks you what how your day was or you know, what
• 42:39
  you learned today. And hopefully conversation can
• 42:43
  lead to softball through. How was practice today?
• 42:45
  How was your game? Hey, I went to the game.
• 42:47
  You guys were great today. I noticed you did this, you
• 42:50
  know, or whatever. So maybe it gives them something
• 42:53
  to talk about instead of looking at their phone and then deciding
• 42:56
  what happened on TikTok to discuss it to the family
• 43:00
  gathering, whatever that might look like.
• 43:02
  So I think, you know, I'd like to think that everybody does it
• 43:05
  for the love of the game, but reality is a lot of people have
• 43:08
  different reasons. So I hope their mindset is that
• 43:12
  this game helped me in some way when they look back.
• 43:15
  So what do you think the you know, you've been to all these
• 43:19
  women's College World Series and you're, you're working, you're
• 43:21
  in the rules and all that wonderful stuff.
• 43:23
  It's amazing. But what do you think these
• 43:25
  athletes do better today than past generations?
• 43:29
  Well, certainly all their opportunities have led to some
• 43:33
  extra experiences for them. You know, I mean, at the college
• 43:37
  level. And actually there's quite a bit
• 43:40
  of disparity between, you know, the top ten schools in Division
• 43:45
  One, in the bottom 10 schools in Division 3 of what you know,
• 43:48
  they're able to to provide for their student athletes, but.
• 43:53
  Your results may vary. Yeah, well, and, and their
• 43:57
  resources, you know, are very, you know, I know some of some of
• 44:03
  my players talk about, especially early out of my
• 44:06
  career about, you know, the opportunity to go somewhere
• 44:09
  they'd never been before. You know, we got in a van, got
• 44:12
  in a van and we drove all night to Florida to play.
• 44:14
  And it's like never been to Florida, got to go to Disney
• 44:18
  World because at that time you could actually afford to take a
• 44:20
  team to Disney World and spend an afternoon there.
• 44:23
  And that's a life experience for them.
• 44:26
  And I think that still happens in in, I hope it still happens
• 44:30
  in lots of places. You get a chance to give them
• 44:32
  things they never had before. I think the ancillary things,
• 44:35
  weight training, you know, has come a long way since my we
• 44:41
  talked about nutrition now. And I'm sure some coaches would
• 44:45
  cringe if they knew what we fed our kids in in my day because,
• 44:51
  you know, it was, it was get in the van and drive and play, get
• 44:56
  in the van and come home. So yes, it was peanut butter and
• 44:59
  Jelly sandwiches, and that was dinner.
• 45:02
  And now they would, you know, your nutritionist would, you
• 45:04
  know, have a heart attack at that.
• 45:07
  Yes. They would to say you're doing
• 45:10
  what? So the role of nutrition helps
• 45:12
  them be better. I think knowing about rest,
• 45:15
  people do vision training now, you know, to to help especially
• 45:20
  hitters pick up spins and balls and stuff.
• 45:22
  I think things that, you know, we really didn't have time to
• 45:27
  delve into, didn't have the resources, maybe didn't have the
• 45:30
  coaching time to to do, you know, I think that's changed a
• 45:35
  lot. So I think that these this
• 45:37
  generation of players compared to mine have lots of other
• 45:40
  opportunities. But the end result is you still
• 45:44
  need to pitch the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, hit
• 45:46
  the ball. That really hasn't hasn't
• 45:49
  changed. So I want to ask you, I want to
• 45:52
  follow this up to now, because I was just about to say that I as
• 45:56
  much as it's gotten all the technology and these
• 45:59
  opportunities, you know, I Ken and I talk about this all the
• 46:03
  time. These we feel that the softball
• 46:05
  IQ has gone down though, right? Like, because like you talked
• 46:09
  with your players when you were at first at Northern, you were,
• 46:11
  you were just there and you were learning from them.
• 46:13
  And now it seems like all these coaches, at least in the travel
• 46:17
  aspect, are just they're, they're creating robots in my
• 46:20
  opinion, right? The coaches are telling them
• 46:22
  exactly what to do. You know, you have a first and
• 46:25
  third situation. Everybody runs down to the third
• 46:27
  base coach to get the play. It's like we, we as players, you
• 46:30
  got to learn and grow into develop sometimes without
• 46:32
  somebody having to tell you what to do so that when those
• 46:35
  opportunities come up again, that you just do it and you
• 46:38
  react instead of just being a robot who has to get permission
• 46:41
  from a coach. So, you know, I feel like I was
• 46:44
  going to ask you where do you think this generation falls
• 46:47
  short? And I think you you kind of
• 46:48
  nailed it right there. You still got to hit the ball.
• 46:50
  You still got to feel that you still got to throw a pitch it
• 46:52
  right. So like, how do you feel about,
• 46:55
  I want to ask you, do you feel like this generation is kind of
• 46:57
  been their hands have been held a little, a little bit more than
• 47:01
  when you were coming up and coaching?
• 47:02
  I think, yes, I think so. I think that maybe we all look
• 47:07
  at, well, they have all these resources, why wouldn't they be
• 47:11
  better? But that's the thing about
• 47:13
  sport. It was never meant to be played
• 47:16
  by robots because robots can do the same physical function over
• 47:21
  and over consistently over time better than any of us ever will.
• 47:25
  So if, if you're looking for perfection in any sport, then
• 47:32
  get a robot, not a not a person, because they'll be able to
• 47:36
  replicate that the skill that is needed all the time.
• 47:40
  So I guess that, you know, for anybody who's worried about
• 47:45
  right now, the way the world is and people worried about, you
• 47:48
  know, is my job, if I'm, if I'm studying for a career, is that
• 47:52
  career even going to exist? Or is a robot going to take it
• 47:55
  over? Robots aren't going to take over
• 47:57
  sports. So let's not be them, let's not
• 48:00
  try to be them. So let's let's be us and, and us
• 48:04
  is part of that is thinking through what's the best, you
• 48:09
  know, this kid at bat bunted 2 times, you know, slapped the
• 48:14
  ball and ran. So I know she's really quick.
• 48:17
  I know that's what she likes to do.
• 48:19
  So I might cheat in a step on the infield because I think
• 48:23
  that's what she's going to do. I don't need my coach to tell me
• 48:28
  to do that. I I need to do that.
• 48:30
  And then if I don't, then I need the coach to say after the half
• 48:34
  inning, it's like, OK, well, when she came up, did you what
• 48:38
  did you think? Did you, did you remember that
• 48:40
  she's the fastest kid on the team and likely to drop the ball
• 48:44
  and run? And then if she says no, that
• 48:47
  never occurred to me. It's like, OK, well, next time,
• 48:49
  next time think about, you know, maybe add that.
• 48:52
  And if she says, well, I thought about it, but then I didn't
• 48:54
  think she would do it this time. It's like, OK, fair enough.
• 48:57
  I understand why you didn't move in.
• 48:59
  It didn't work out. But that's OK, because her
• 49:03
  process was what I want it to be.
• 49:06
  I wanted her to think that for herself, and she did.
• 49:10
  It just didn't pan out or the pitcher threw the ball in the
• 49:13
  wrong place and the kid smacked it, you know, whatever it was.
• 49:16
  Yeah, that's what I was going to say is I like that with the
• 49:18
  pitchers when they tell me that, yeah, their their coach called a
• 49:21
  pitch and they were shaking it off.
• 49:24
  And you know, the reason was because the last time you had me
• 49:27
  throw that pitch to this kid, she hit a home run off of me.
• 49:29
  And I'm not going to make that mistake again.
• 49:32
  Don't know what game you're watching coach, but.
• 49:35
  Yeah. She took me downtown.
• 49:37
  Well, and all of us look at, you know, the situation different to
• 49:40
  to your exact point. It's like, well, I called that
• 49:42
  pitch because that's your best pitch.
• 49:45
  So I was thinking you should throw your best to try and beat
• 49:50
  her. You were thinking when I threw
• 49:53
  that pitch, she beat the crap out of it.
• 49:56
  So, you know, we both were seeing the same opportunity,
• 50:01
  just coming up with different solutions to it, yeah.
• 50:05
  Well, and I think that the thing too is that, you know, when you
• 50:07
  were talking about robots, yes, robots are going to be very
• 50:10
  reliable. They're going to do the same
• 50:11
  thing over and over again, but they're not going to do the
• 50:14
  extraordinary. You know, a robot would evaluate
• 50:18
  the situation and isn't going to dive for that ball because you
• 50:22
  know, there's a only a 30% chance I will catch it.
• 50:25
  And if the ball gets behind me, the situation is going to
• 50:28
  happen. And so blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 50:30
  blah. It goes through all the logic.
• 50:31
  Whereas that player is going to go, we got to have that, you
• 50:34
  know, you know, if it gets behind me, you know, it's not
• 50:37
  going to make that much difference.
• 50:38
  But if I can catch the ball, it's going to make a huge
• 50:40
  difference. That's a great point that robots
• 50:43
  are consistent, but not never extraordinary.
• 50:46
  They're never horrible, never extraordinary.
• 50:47
  That's a great, that's a great analogy.
• 50:50
  I like that. And you know, that's, I think
• 50:52
  that's what makes sports fun to watch is, you know, it's, it's
• 50:56
  things happening that you wouldn't expect to see
• 50:58
  happening. So, Dee, I want to, I want to
• 51:01
  ask you a question. You've been deeply involved in
• 51:03
  the NCAA rules. What are some rule changes that
• 51:07
  had the biggest impact that I've had that that you feel that I've
• 51:10
  had the biggest impact on the game?
• 51:11
  Wow. That's really, yeah, that's
• 51:15
  really hard to say. I I would say, well, certainly
• 51:20
  the first thing would be having for college, for having our own
• 51:23
  rulebook. When I played, everybody played
• 51:27
  with at the time, Amateur softball Association rules.
• 51:30
  Everybody around here, some people in the South played with
• 51:32
  a different association, but most of us played.
• 51:34
  So if you played, the concept was you played youthball, you
• 51:38
  played high school, you played college, you played seniors.
• 51:41
  It was all the same set of rules.
• 51:42
  So that made life easy. But the reality is that the
• 51:46
  skill level in those games are different games because of what
• 51:51
  the players can do. So you know, the first thing
• 51:54
  would probably be just getting our own rule book.
• 51:57
  We started with ASA was was very gracious in allowing us to have
• 52:02
  one page added to their rule book for college for years.
• 52:07
  And then finally, then TA decided to to write its own rule
• 52:10
  book. I was the secretary rules editor
• 52:13
  for that very first committee of eight people who who wrote the
• 52:17
  first book and then have annually improved it.
• 52:21
  So I that making it. I had an umpire tell me when he
• 52:26
  found out we were going to write a new rule book.
• 52:28
  He said, you know, well, why do you have a committee for that?
• 52:31
  And I said because, you know, different points of view and we
• 52:34
  want to do things. And he said, but really all you
• 52:36
  have to do is is to take the ASA rule book and change all the
• 52:40
  he's to she's and you're done. And that's like, well, that
• 52:45
  wasn't really the goal. That is true that, you know, we
• 52:51
  could do that because it was written from the male point of
• 52:54
  view, but it was more about tailoring the game to what
• 52:58
  college players can do. And so so, yeah, he thought that
• 53:02
  was kind of crazy to have even a book.
• 53:03
  But that was probably that's the biggest thing because that
• 53:07
  committee still can tailor the game and make improvements to
• 53:11
  the game that don't belong in youth or high school.
• 53:15
  And letting each of us in high school has their own rule book
• 53:18
  now too. So allowing each of us to better
• 53:21
  tailor to the the people that we serve.
• 53:24
  I think it is huge. I think for all of us, going
• 53:28
  from nine players to a designated hitter to ADP flex
• 53:33
  have been. That's been a really good
• 53:35
  improvement. I think the Designated Player
• 53:39
  created a place for a player who was very good at hitting, but
• 53:43
  not. But a liability?
• 53:45
  In the field you want on the field a liability on the field,
• 53:47
  Good word DP flex even better because we were able to get more
• 53:54
  people who are specializing into the game or introduced to the
• 53:58
  game. You know, you might have a
• 54:00
  player who who just hasn't been exposed to softball very much
• 54:05
  and it's like, you know what there's so much going on in your
• 54:07
  brain, defense, offense, all that stuff.
• 54:10
  It's like just for these two weeks, you're going to be the
• 54:14
  flex, you're going to be playing defense and I just want you to
• 54:16
  don't worry about your hitting, just learn the game because I
• 54:21
  think you, you can be great at it.
• 54:22
  And then we'll get you time at bat, you know, later on, but
• 54:25
  let's just do this. Somebody coming off an injury
• 54:29
  again, same thing. You can limit them to either one
• 54:31
  position or the other and not be forced to leave them on the
• 54:34
  bench until they can do everything.
• 54:36
  So I think that opportunity, you know, I, I think that's made a
• 54:40
  big difference for us. You know, a lot of people
• 54:43
  thought adding the, the second base at first base was going to
• 54:47
  change the game in college. I, I don't think it has, I think
• 54:51
  it's, I think it was a good addition.
• 54:54
  I think it prevents collisions that were unnecessary.
• 54:58
  So anytime you can do that, I think that, you know, that's a
• 55:01
  good thing because of the high traffic and the speed of our
• 55:04
  game, so many close plays compared to like baseball where
• 55:08
  people are usually out by two steps, ours are out by half a
• 55:12
  step. So I think that was a great and
• 55:14
  everybody thought that was going to completely change the game.
• 55:16
  It's like, I don't, I don't think it will.
• 55:18
  I think it was good. We've changed pitching distances
• 55:22
  over the years from 40 to what? Yeah, 404643.
• 55:27
  I think 43 is a good number. I think it it allowed us to put
• 55:33
  some more offense in the game, 40 feet.
• 55:35
  There weren't a lot of opportunities for scoring runs.
• 55:39
  That is good. So I think that was a a really
• 55:42
  good change and people think of it as a pitching change because
• 55:45
  that's who had to adjust the most.
• 55:47
  But it really brought offense into our game, and I think that
• 55:51
  was that's huge. Yeah.
• 55:53
  Well, and, and again, people say about, you know, well, we like
• 55:56
  those low scoring games. It's like, yeah, but it's not TV
• 55:59
  friendly. And you look at how the game has
• 56:01
  grown. You know, at the end of the day,
• 56:03
  people like to see balls put in play.
• 56:05
  They like to see those defensive plays, they like to see the home
• 56:08
  runs, they like to see all that stuff.
• 56:10
  You put more balls in play, more people are interested and more
• 56:13
  money comes into the game and you can make the improvements.
• 56:16
  Yeah, I remember early on in my career up here at at at
• 56:19
  Northern, it's like you score a run in the third inning and
• 56:22
  you're coasting because he's not going to score a run, you know?
• 56:27
  And so it was just a whole different thing.
• 56:30
  And now you score a run in the third and it's like, OK, well,
• 56:34
  that's not enough, you know, Or if you're on the other side, if
• 56:38
  you're on the zero side, it's like no problem, we're going to
• 56:41
  get 2 in the next inning. You know, we're not out of the
• 56:43
  game. But you know, I, I just
• 56:46
  especially remember, you know, you're down one to nothing and
• 56:49
  maybe the bottom of your order is up in the 7th inning.
• 56:51
  It's like this game was over, you know, I mean, bus.
• 56:54
  Drivers warming up the bus. Yeah, exactly.
• 56:57
  We're getting out the peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches,
• 57:01
  about to head the head on the road.
• 57:03
  So now it's kind of like it's never over until it's over.
• 57:06
  Now I won't say never anymore because I just saw score this
• 57:09
  weekend in a Division One game. There was 23 to nothing, which
• 57:13
  was ridiculously out of realm. So there are still those, you
• 57:18
  know, that exist, but now you can have a really good one to
• 57:22
  nothing game with a surprisingly lot of plays.
• 57:27
  They just didn't turn into run, but maybe you had base runners
• 57:30
  all the time or balls in play at least all the time that somebody
• 57:33
  makes a great snag on or whatever.
• 57:36
  Yeah, yeah. And then you have other games
• 57:40
  that that maybe are a little out of hand of five to nothing, but
• 57:44
  that team, 5 to nothing still thinks maybe, maybe we can do
• 57:48
  it, you know, and if we got two or three innings, maybe all we
• 57:51
  need is one or two an inning. Yeah, we can do that.
• 57:53
  Yep. So we're not out of it.
• 57:54
  So. Do you one thing that I I think
• 57:57
  people don't realize how amusing the reading the rule book can
• 58:00
  be. Everybody thinks it's a dry
• 58:02
  document, but if you look in there, there's a lot of crazy
• 58:05
  rules. And my thought has always been
• 58:08
  for every crazy rule, it came about because some coach tried
• 58:12
  to game the system. My favorite one is there's a,
• 58:15
  there's actually a rule that says after an offensive
• 58:18
  conference, all base runners must return to the base they
• 58:22
  were on before the conference. I would think that's implied.
• 58:27
  I would think that was a normal thing.
• 58:29
  But clearly somebody brought, you know, called an offensive
• 58:32
  conference, got his turtle behind his his rabbit instead of
• 58:36
  in front. Switch runners?
• 58:37
  Yep. Yep.
• 58:39
  And they went in and somebody protesting and said, well,
• 58:41
  there's nothing that says you can't do it.
• 58:44
  So do you remember anything like that, that, you know, that came
• 58:46
  across or you just shook your head, kind of laughed and went,
• 58:49
  yeah, we got to put a rule in? You know that that happened all
• 58:54
  the time when I was sitting in that chair because I I, you
• 58:59
  know, would get the calls from the field or after the game
• 59:03
  about this happened and there's not a rule against it.
• 59:06
  And how can you, you know, it's like, and actually the place
• 59:09
  that you probably find those really interesting, quirky kind
• 59:14
  of things are now in the case book.
• 59:17
  We started with just the rules and then we had to to do just
• 59:20
  what you said, you know, put some extra things in there.
• 59:22
  And so under my tenure, we added they're, they're called approved
• 59:27
  rulings, but they're story problems.
• 59:30
  Literally, you know, if this and this and this happens, then
• 59:33
  here's here's the correct application and we put that in
• 59:37
  the book. So our rule book went from, you
• 59:39
  know, like 50 pages to 150 pages in a heartbeat.
• 59:44
  After I left being the secretary of rules editor, the new person
• 59:50
  who's the secretary of rules editor and then staffer, I've
• 59:52
  decided, you know what our rule book is?
• 59:54
  Our rule book is 4 times the size of baseball.
• 59:57
  And so we need to probably cut that back because people aren't
• 1:00:02
  paying enough attention. When do I have time to read a
• 1:00:05
  300 page book? You know, so I'm not going to
• 1:00:07
  read it at all. So, so I think they did the
• 1:00:10
  right thing and cutting it back to here are the essentials.
• 1:00:13
  And then they now produce something called the case book,
• 1:00:16
  which is posted on the website. It's free.
• 1:00:18
  It's, you know, it's not going to cost you anything, but it has
• 1:00:23
  all of those situations, all of those crazy plays of if this and
• 1:00:27
  this and this happened, then here's the correct application
• 1:00:31
  of, of the rule. So the, the case book now has,
• 1:00:35
  so that's kind of fun when, when I have a group of coaches at the
• 1:00:38
  convention or whatever and they say, you know, let's let's talk
• 1:00:41
  about crazy plays or whatever. It's like, I just grabbed the
• 1:00:44
  case book and just flip it open and say, OK, well, here's a
• 1:00:46
  play. What's what, what should the
• 1:00:49
  outcome be for that? It's also a huge help for
• 1:00:52
  umpires and God bless umpires. You know, they have so much to
• 1:00:57
  do, especially when they umpire different levels of games where
• 1:01:01
  the rules are different or in in my case, people who code, who
• 1:01:06
  umpire Division One softball don't usually do any youth ball
• 1:01:10
  or high school, but they do do Division Three once in a while
• 1:01:13
  or whatever. And it's like, yeah, the game is
• 1:01:16
  a little different at that level too.
• 1:01:18
  And giving them a place to to write in and say I had this play
• 1:01:23
  and this is what I did. What do you think of it?
• 1:01:26
  And then if it's something that might happen again, then, you
• 1:01:29
  know, we'll put it in the case book and people can go go read
• 1:01:34
  about it. But yeah, it, it does it
• 1:01:36
  softball is, is, is unique in that way.
• 1:01:39
  You know, you can you guys could go to the field and been at the
• 1:01:43
  field for decades too. And you'll see a play that
• 1:01:46
  you've never seen before and never heard of before.
• 1:01:49
  That happens in baseball and softball.
• 1:01:51
  But you never hear about that happening in a basketball game
• 1:01:54
  or in a soccer game. You know, if you are a soccer
• 1:01:58
  mom or dad and you go to the soccer field for two years,
• 1:02:01
  you've pretty much seen everything you're going to see,
• 1:02:03
  you know, on the field. That is not true in baseball and
• 1:02:06
  softball. And I don't know why that is.
• 1:02:08
  But people will say I have been to this game for decades and
• 1:02:11
  never seen that happen. And that poop, there it is.
• 1:02:15
  So it is kind of, I don't know why that is.
• 1:02:19
  I don't know any other sport that's like that.
• 1:02:21
  Yeah. No, I agree.
• 1:02:24
  So you're pretty heavily involved in the NCAA tournament
• 1:02:27
  still. What if some of your
• 1:02:29
  responsibilities, if somebody goes out, especially like to the
• 1:02:32
  Women's College World Series, Dee's going to be hanging
• 1:02:35
  around. What's she doing out there?
• 1:02:39
  Now that's the now that's the easy part of my job because my
• 1:02:45
  only responsibility is being the equipment consultant.
• 1:02:50
  So my responsibility used to be sitting there watching, watching
• 1:02:55
  the games, and then either listening in my ear or having
• 1:02:59
  the ESPN person come run over and say what just happened or
• 1:03:04
  how did they do that or what, how do we explain it or
• 1:03:07
  whatever. And I don't have to do that
• 1:03:09
  anymore. So it used to be for me, it used
• 1:03:12
  to be a very tense time because I was always worried about, you
• 1:03:16
  know, what was going to come up next, What do I need to be ready
• 1:03:20
  to answer? And now it's really easy because
• 1:03:23
  my only responsibility is doing bat testing Every, every, every
• 1:03:29
  bat, every day. Every day they play, not
• 1:03:32
  practice days, every day they play.
• 1:03:33
  So then when I get to go to the series, I pretty much sit back
• 1:03:36
  and enjoy the game again, which is fun.
• 1:03:39
  I sit with the rule, the committee members, the
• 1:03:43
  championship committee members, not people directly involved in
• 1:03:47
  rules, but championship guys who are putting it on umpires, the
• 1:03:51
  umpire staff, the umpires who are not on the game sit with me
• 1:03:55
  in my row. And so we get to sit and enjoy
• 1:03:58
  the game. So it's, it's really nice.
• 1:04:00
  And then besides that in Oklahoma City, the other thing I
• 1:04:04
  do is spend time in my hotel room entering data because we
• 1:04:10
  track every all three divisions from regionals on.
• 1:04:15
  We track bat testing at for every team.
• 1:04:19
  Again, we do every team every day.
• 1:04:20
  So we keep track of the bats that they use by school, the
• 1:04:24
  manufacturers, the model numbers, all of that stuff.
• 1:04:27
  So I enter all that data and then work with the manufacturers
• 1:04:30
  about at the highest level of their games.
• 1:04:33
  You know, a lot of people don't want to know what what are the
• 1:04:36
  Division Three best players swinging?
• 1:04:40
  Which ones are not passing? You know what's being removed
• 1:04:45
  from the game. If it's being removed from the
• 1:04:46
  game, why is it that this particular model has a rattle to
• 1:04:50
  it so umpires keep taking it out?
• 1:04:51
  Well, that's hard on student athletes when you get to key
• 1:04:56
  moments when it's, you know, win or go home, the last thing I
• 1:04:59
  want you to do is take my trusted bat out of my hand.
• 1:05:02
  So how can we, how can we do that?
• 1:05:05
  You know better? So from what 48 and 2470 sites,
• 1:05:10
  75 sites I've got data to enter of.
• 1:05:15
  So I try to get all that done because two weeks after the
• 1:05:17
  World Series is usually the committee meetings.
• 1:05:20
  So the committee, the Rules Committee meets and I have
• 1:05:24
  presentations to them. Then immediately after them I
• 1:05:28
  start heading back to the manufacturers, to the engineers.
• 1:05:31
  There's kind of two sets of manufacturers.
• 1:05:33
  I have the guys who are the reps, but then I have most of
• 1:05:37
  the major companies I work with. The engineers, They want to know
• 1:05:41
  certain things about their bats. They want to know how much are
• 1:05:43
  they being used. They want to know what's being
• 1:05:46
  taken out of the games for connection issues or breakage. 2
• 1:05:50
  years ago, we had just a rash of breaks and games like 42 bats
• 1:05:55
  breaking in two or more pieces during a game.
• 1:05:58
  That's crazy high when you have pieces of metal flying around to
• 1:06:02
  either the edge infielders or pitcher or the catcher and the
• 1:06:05
  umpire actually get hit with flying shrapnel too.
• 1:06:09
  And it's like that. I mean, people think, well,
• 1:06:12
  that's not a big deal when you think of the 10s of thousands of
• 1:06:15
  games being played, 42, That's a big deal when you're 1 of the 42
• 1:06:19
  and you get hit with a bat. Yeah.
• 1:06:21
  Matters. So, you know.
• 1:06:24
  Yeah, Exactly. So what what led to that?
• 1:06:27
  We went from like 10 or 15 to 42 for two years in a row.
• 1:06:31
  Now we're back down. Well, we still have more to go,
• 1:06:34
  but I'm going to say the last, I think 23 maybe so half.
• 1:06:41
  So that's good. Going back to manufacturers,
• 1:06:43
  they have taken some things off the market out of the college
• 1:06:46
  game. They have redesigned things so
• 1:06:49
  that it might be. Yeah, it was the 25 edition.
• 1:06:52
  We added two more layers of carbon fiber, so now it's a
• 1:06:56
  little stiffer. 26 edition, same name, same model.
• 1:07:00
  Well, the model number will change because it'll have 26 in
• 1:07:02
  it somewhere, but same bat construction just solve the
• 1:07:07
  problem from getting worse. So then, yeah, so then there's
• 1:07:11
  those meetings and got to be ready for them.
• 1:07:14
  And then it is, it is a cycle. We have NCA has an approved bat
• 1:07:19
  list, so we don't allow all the bats that the rest of you allow
• 1:07:24
  into your game because they're not appropriate.
• 1:07:27
  Manufacturers appreciate that because they have to add more
• 1:07:31
  weight, more length, more strength to the bats in our
• 1:07:34
  game. You don't need to do that.
• 1:07:37
  You don't need to put $500.00 of technology into a bat for a 10
• 1:07:42
  year old. You just don't.
• 1:07:43
  So by keeping that 10 year old bat off of our list, it allows
• 1:07:47
  them to Taylor better their product for the other parts of
• 1:07:52
  the game and Taylor just specific ones for us.
• 1:07:56
  So we post a list in August. So that happens, you know,
• 1:08:00
  putting that together, asking them the manufacturers to send
• 1:08:03
  their data for what they want to add.
• 1:08:06
  It's easy to delete, but and they do that most manufacturers
• 1:08:10
  delete them after 5 or 6 years. But so, yeah, that's yeah,
• 1:08:15
  somewhere does that. And then and get right into
• 1:08:19
  breaking in bats again in the fall and start all over again.
• 1:08:23
  Awesome, that's busy. So Dee, we we're we're a little
• 1:08:27
  over an hour. We promised you'd be just an
• 1:08:28
  hour. So we don't want to keep any
• 1:08:29
  longer. I just have.
• 1:08:31
  We just have a couple more. Questions.
• 1:08:32
  Hard to believe an hour's gone by already.
• 1:08:34
  This has been fast. I know this is awesome.
• 1:08:37
  So I'm going to just switch a little bit now.
• 1:08:39
  I want to know what it was like for you transitioning from a
• 1:08:42
  coach to administrator. Like what was that biggest
• 1:08:44
  adjustment when you made that transition from coach to
• 1:08:47
  administrator? And then Ken might have one more
• 1:08:48
  question for you. OK, you know what?
• 1:08:51
  That was kind of easy for me because I just want, I wanted to
• 1:08:55
  help students enjoy their college experience, grow up as
• 1:09:00
  human beings to do whatever it is that they want to do and get
• 1:09:03
  those skills to do it. So I had a team of maybe 20
• 1:09:06
  women that I was able to do that with.
• 1:09:09
  And when my sport administrator became the athletic director
• 1:09:14
  who's somebody that I really respect and love her style of of
• 1:09:20
  leadership, she asked if she got the AD job, would I leave
• 1:09:24
  coaching to be the assistant, take her place and be her
• 1:09:28
  assistant. And instead of coaching my 20
• 1:09:30
  women, I got a chance to coach coaches, who then each had a
• 1:09:35
  chance to coach 10 to 30 students at the university.
• 1:09:41
  So it was a really easy decision for me.
• 1:09:45
  I'd already gone from coaching a sport of softball, which I knew
• 1:09:49
  nothing about, to coaching a sport of volleyball and
• 1:09:52
  basketball, which I knew nothing about.
• 1:09:54
  But just taking coaching skills and then being able to
• 1:09:57
  concentrate on the softball side of it for a lot of times.
• 1:10:01
  But then it's like, you know what, I could coach coaches and
• 1:10:03
  then they could go and I can have as big an impact on people
• 1:10:08
  leaving this university by being an administrator.
• 1:10:11
  So that's what I did and my coaches probably threw their
• 1:10:16
  hands up because they to start with thinking I was meddling a
• 1:10:19
  lot. But you know what, I did stuff
• 1:10:22
  with them like I did with my teams.
• 1:10:24
  We had monthly meetings over lunch.
• 1:10:28
  Food is always a a good thing to get people to come over lunch.
• 1:10:32
  And you know what your your job can next meeting is.
• 1:10:38
  I want you to take something that you do with your team that
• 1:10:40
  you think really helps them develop team culture.
• 1:10:45
  And I want you to teach us next Wednesday at lunch what you did
• 1:10:51
  and how we can apply that. And so I had these amazing
• 1:10:55
  meetings with, you know, the basketball coach saying this.
• 1:10:57
  I said and and OK, Ken, when you do it, keep in mind you might
• 1:11:00
  have different resources because the basketball coach has
• 1:11:04
  different resources than the tennis coach does, but they can
• 1:11:08
  take away. So help them with that, Say, OK,
• 1:11:11
  well, we had all this. If you don't have all this, you
• 1:11:14
  can still accomplish the same thing by doing it this way.
• 1:11:18
  And so that was the best part of my job.
• 1:11:22
  It was coaching them. And then they would come in my
• 1:11:25
  office and tell me how it went. You know, we tried this idea
• 1:11:29
  and, you know, it went great or here's why my problem or
• 1:11:32
  whatever. And the other thing about that,
• 1:11:34
  and I mentioned, you know, having a meal, that's always a
• 1:11:37
  good thing because coaches are busy.
• 1:11:38
  And so if you can feed them and teach them at the same time,
• 1:11:41
  that's a good thing. The other thing I did right
• 1:11:44
  away, first day on the job was as soon as you walk in my door,
• 1:11:49
  there's a basket of candy, But can't take something out of the
• 1:11:54
  candy unless you have something to say.
• 1:11:58
  So you know what? I, they might have stood in the
• 1:12:00
  hall to figure out something to say, make it up.
• 1:12:02
  I don't know. I'm hoping maybe that happened
• 1:12:06
  once or twice, but not often. But they would come in and I got
• 1:12:10
  to know them like I got to know my players, you know, So that
• 1:12:15
  was that helped me get through that hard time of missing my
• 1:12:19
  players too much, missing being a part of their lives because I
• 1:12:22
  got this other group of people. And then and then I got to know
• 1:12:25
  their players because they would come in and, you know, talk
• 1:12:28
  about I'm having trouble with this motivating this kid.
• 1:12:31
  I can't figure her out, you know, whatever.
• 1:12:33
  And it's like, OK, so I can sit and practice and watch that kid
• 1:12:36
  and maybe I can help by when she's walking off, you know,
• 1:12:41
  walk, walking off to go to the locker and say, Hey, that's good
• 1:12:44
  practice today. I, I watched a little of it and
• 1:12:46
  you, you really get in the hang of it, you know, and it's like
• 1:12:49
  then maybe they feel good about somebody noticed them.
• 1:12:51
  So it was, it was really easy transition for me it.
• 1:12:55
  Sounds like you've got a great book there.
• 1:12:57
  You know, you just say lessons I learned from other coaches.
• 1:13:01
  Lessons I learned from other coaches and have a candy basket.
• 1:13:04
  That's the key. So I have one more question for
• 1:13:10
  you. And is there anything going on
• 1:13:13
  in softball right now that you strongly disagree with?
• 1:13:17
  You know, at, I guess at the youth level, I am not a big fan
• 1:13:23
  of some of these tournaments. And I understand that you have
• 1:13:27
  to make money to have tournaments sometimes and stuff.
• 1:13:30
  But some of the associations with facilities or hotel change
• 1:13:35
  or whatever where, you know, we're getting in as many teams
• 1:13:37
  as we can. And your team plays at 8:00 in
• 1:13:40
  the morning and 9:00 at night and, and your kids are 10 years
• 1:13:46
  old. It's like that was never meant
• 1:13:49
  to be. That's not ideal learning time
• 1:13:52
  for many of us. And so I am, I, I guess if I was
• 1:13:57
  living in that world, I would not be a fan of that.
• 1:13:59
  I would much rather go to a place where maybe there's only
• 1:14:02
  six teams, but we all play between 10:00 in the morning and
• 1:14:05
  maybe the last game starts at 6:00 at night, maybe 7.
• 1:14:08
  But we're not putting people on the field starting at 9:00.
• 1:14:13
  And in order to do that, OK, we're going to have an hour and
• 1:14:17
  a half time limit. The game softball was not meant
• 1:14:20
  to be played like that. The strategy is different
• 1:14:25
  actually, if you're going to play by time.
• 1:14:28
  And so on the youth level, that's something.
• 1:14:31
  If if I could change that, if I could change one thing, that
• 1:14:34
  would probably be the kids experience, making sure that
• 1:14:39
  that it's a good experience on the college level.
• 1:14:43
  If I could change anything, it would be the craziness now of
• 1:14:47
  players. We've kind of lost the idea of
• 1:14:50
  student in student athlete. I grew up under the student 1st
• 1:14:55
  and athlete was opportunity to do other things, but it was
• 1:15:00
  student first. So you came to get a degree.
• 1:15:03
  So you know, you come and in your five years you played for
• 1:15:06
  somehow in there, maybe rich your ear, maybe a medical year,
• 1:15:09
  whatever. But you know, it was a brief
• 1:15:12
  period of your life to come in and get an education that's
• 1:15:16
  going to serve you the rest of your life, whether you, it's a
• 1:15:20
  professional thing or just learning how to live and then
• 1:15:24
  going out and, and doing anything at all that does or
• 1:15:27
  doesn't require a college degree, just being a student.
• 1:15:31
  And then when you go to that school and you join that team,
• 1:15:34
  you join that group that you commit to it.
• 1:15:38
  I think we are teaching kids now that if you go and you don't get
• 1:15:42
  exactly what you want, then quit on them and go somewhere else.
• 1:15:47
  And I, I just, there's a time for that when really a situation
• 1:15:54
  is bad for a player and they need to go.
• 1:15:56
  But I cannot imagine the time when a, a 19 year old needs to
• 1:16:02
  quit four teams and play on their fifth team in College in
• 1:16:06
  their sport. That that that just doesn't make
• 1:16:09
  sense to me that we allow that to be a learning experience of,
• 1:16:16
  you know, just if you don't have exactly what you want or don't
• 1:16:20
  get enough money or playing time, whatever it is, just quit
• 1:16:23
  on the people that you committed to being part of and move on.
• 1:16:28
  And everybody makes a mistake once in a while.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah, I get that. You thought maybe you went to
• 1:16:33
  school because you like this coach.
• 1:16:34
  The coach left. So now there's different
• 1:16:36
  philosophy. Maybe, you know, maybe you
• 1:16:38
  thought it was going to be one way and it's a different.
• 1:16:40
  So OK, pack up and go somewhere else, but then stay and get your
• 1:16:46
  degree and learn what you can and, and it may not be
• 1:16:51
  everything you need, but you need to give everything you have
• 1:16:54
  to that group and not turn and walk away.
• 1:16:57
  So, and I have no solution to it, which is the worst thing
• 1:17:02
  ever. When people tell me what's your
• 1:17:03
  problem, they say, I always ask what's the solution?
• 1:17:05
  I got none. I got no, I have no idea what
• 1:17:10
  the solution is. I just know that I, I don't like
• 1:17:13
  it. I don't like kids, the youth
• 1:17:15
  kids playing the way they have to play sometimes at
• 1:17:19
  tournaments. And I'm sure that over time
• 1:17:22
  that's probably an expense deal too for parents.
• 1:17:26
  Softball's not a cheap sport to play.
• 1:17:27
  It's hard in the inner city to do that because equipment is
• 1:17:31
  expensive and travel time, you know, is, is an issue.
• 1:17:35
  So and. You need a fair amount of space.
• 1:17:38
  Yeah, yeah, a dedicated space, you know, I mean, if you, if you
• 1:17:42
  have a a AYMCA or a rec center or whatever gym floor, you could
• 1:17:46
  play a whole bunch of things on it.
• 1:17:48
  You got a softball field, you got one thing you can plan.
• 1:17:50
  And if you're in the North, you can only play on it half of the
• 1:17:53
  year because the other half of the year it's under snow.
• 1:17:56
  So that's you know, so I guess that would be I hate to end on
• 1:18:02
  that. What do I hate about?
• 1:18:04
  All right, all right. Well then, here I've got 1.
• 1:18:06
  I'll just say that would that would.
• 1:18:07
  Be one more for you, then we'll we'll give you one more, then
• 1:18:10
  here you're going. OK, yeah.
• 1:18:11
  So this is a fun one. Do you have any hidden talents
• 1:18:14
  or things that someone would be surprised to learn about you?
• 1:18:18
  Oh my gosh. Hidden talent?
• 1:18:22
  Yeah. I don't, I don't think I do have
• 1:18:25
  a hidden talent. And I, you know, if you were to
• 1:18:27
  ask my play, my former players and stuff, it's like what I
• 1:18:30
  think they would probably say what, what surprised them most
• 1:18:34
  was was how hard working I am. But yet I still want to have
• 1:18:40
  fun. You know, I think life's too
• 1:18:42
  short to, to not like what you do.
• 1:18:48
  There's certainly times when you don't like parts of what you
• 1:18:52
  have to do, parts of your job. But you know what, when you have
• 1:18:54
  those times, then that makes you appreciate the ones that you do
• 1:18:57
  like, You know, like if you hate to do paperwork, it's like, OK,
• 1:19:01
  but when you get the paperwork done, you get to then go out to
• 1:19:06
  practice and play with the play with the girls.
• 1:19:09
  It's like, OK, so that makes me look forward to playing with the
• 1:19:12
  girls more and makes me enjoy them more because I get to get
• 1:19:16
  rid of this. So I think that's probably what
• 1:19:18
  they would say. It's like that's kind of a
• 1:19:20
  overriding thing for me. Awesome, great.
• 1:19:24
  And I can juggle. Oh, there, there we go.
• 1:19:27
  See, there we go. We were waiting for that one.
• 1:19:29
  Here we go. I made my pictures.
• 1:19:31
  Learn how to juggle. Nice.
• 1:19:34
  We did, we, we learned how to juggle.
• 1:19:36
  You know what, 'cause it was just kind of a, hey, I'm going
• 1:19:39
  to ask you to learn new spins, new things.
• 1:19:43
  So I, I want you to learn how to learn and we're going to all
• 1:19:46
  suck at it to start with, and we're going to do it together.
• 1:19:50
  And so, yeah, those, yeah, when I was at Northern, I made my
• 1:19:56
  pictures learn how to how to gel.
• 1:19:58
  That's awesome. Could put on your own little
• 1:20:00
  circus. Yeah, they might have thought it
• 1:20:03
  was a circus. I don't know.
• 1:20:06
  Yikes. Well, Dee, thank you so much for
• 1:20:09
  giving us all this time and telling these great stories.
• 1:20:12
  We really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it too.
• 1:20:15
  I hope I see you guys up the road here.
• 1:20:17
  Maybe at the maybe I'll have to come out and chase down Coach
• 1:20:23
  Campbell and yeah. Come on out for a lesson.
• 1:20:27
  That'd be great. We could and then we could stay
• 1:20:29
  for an hour after that and just hang out and talk softball.
• 1:20:32
  That would be I'd love that. You're welcome at any time to
• 1:20:34
  come come to one of Macy's lessons or, or any of that.
• 1:20:37
  So again, thanks to Katie and and Chris for putting us in
• 1:20:40
  contact with you. This has been Ken and I are so
• 1:20:42
  grateful and thankful for your time today.
• 1:20:44
  But you are welcome anytime. I'd love to sit down and pick
• 1:20:47
  your brain some more on many, many, many other things and
• 1:20:50
  questions. I have so and.
• 1:20:51
  Then you and I could always reminisce about eating beef
• 1:20:53
  sandwiches and Tom and Jerry's. Oh yeah.
• 1:20:57
  Hey, did you know that Tom and Jerry's burned to the ground?
• 1:21:00
  Really. Oh, that's a shame.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah. See my it?
• 1:21:04
  Did it. It burned to the ground not too
• 1:21:07
  long ago. And there was an old a different
• 1:21:10
  restaurant in town that had been closed for a while.
• 1:21:12
  So they moved in to there temporarily.
• 1:21:15
  And they just broke ground this last Saturday to rebuild on
• 1:21:20
  their old site. Oh, wow.
• 1:21:22
  So people in town, we had a fundraiser, you could buy a Tom
• 1:21:25
  and Jerry T-shirts, try and support them.
• 1:21:28
  And so. Yeah.
• 1:21:30
  So for people who didn't go to Northern, Tom and Jerry's was a
• 1:21:33
  little like hot dog stand that was just outside of the bar
• 1:21:38
  area. So you'd go out and you'd have
• 1:21:40
  yourself a good time all night on a Friday night or a Saturday
• 1:21:44
  night, and then as you're heading back toward the dorms or
• 1:21:46
  toward the apartments and stuff, you'd stop Tom and Jerry's, get
• 1:21:49
  a little food in you so you didn't have such a hangover the
• 1:21:52
  next morning. And what I remember most about
• 1:21:55
  it was back in those days when I was going to school there, I
• 1:21:58
  could stop off, have two beef sandwiches, a large thing of
• 1:22:03
  fries, a large Coke, and wake up the next day.
• 1:22:06
  And I haven't gained a pound. Now I think about Tom and
• 1:22:11
  Jerry's and I put on 5 lbs So. Well, maybe you need to.
• 1:22:17
  When they open up, I'll let you know.
• 1:22:19
  And maybe you need to come on out because Diane is still the
• 1:22:21
  owner of Tom and Jerry's. So maybe you need to come out
• 1:22:26
  here and we'll meet at Tom and Jerry's.
• 1:22:28
  Sounds good. Awesome.
• 1:22:30
  Awesome, it's the deal. Jay, do you want to say anything
• 1:22:33
  about those guys T-shirts? Thank you.
• 1:22:35
  Thank you, Dee. Yeah, real.
• 1:22:36
  Yeah, Real quick, just a reminder that if you share the
• 1:22:40
  podcast, you like it on Spotify, Apple podcast, you share it out,
• 1:22:44
  Ken and I will be happy to send you out AT shirt.
• 1:22:46
  Just show us and send us a message that you sent the
• 1:22:48
  podcast out and you shared it out to others.
• 1:22:51
  This would be a great episode to to share it out.
• 1:22:53
  We have somebody like Dee on here today who has just a ton of
• 1:22:55
  knowledge and a lot of share with coaches.
• 1:22:57
  So click follow on Apple, Apple podcast or Spotify or YouTube
• 1:23:01
  and share out an episode and we, Ken and I will happily send you
• 1:23:04
  out AT shirt. So thanks everybody for
• 1:23:06
  listening. We appreciate it and yeah, share
• 1:23:09
  it out. All right, well, that's it for
• 1:23:11
  us this week. Thanks to all of you for
• 1:23:13
  listening and the kind words you've been sharing with us.
• 1:23:16
  If you like what you're hearing, Please remember to give us a
• 1:23:18
  like, leave a comment and share this podcast on your social
• 1:23:21
  media channels like Jay said, and you can get a T-shirt.
• 1:23:24
  Make sure you never miss an episode by following us on your
• 1:23:27
  favorite podcast platform. If you're so inclined, you can
• 1:23:30
  also leave us a great review on Apple Podcasts to help more
• 1:23:33
  people find us. On behalf of the From the
• 1:23:36
  Coaches Mouth podcast, have a great rest of your week and
• 1:23:39
  weekend.