Latest / Like a Virgin / Cultural Appropriation is Good Again

Transcript

Cultural Appropriation is Good Again · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Why has Better help so obsessed with us because they
0:07
Speaker 1: know that we and all of our listeners are deeply
0:10
Speaker 1: unhinged virgins. I'm sure all of you are very upset
0:20
Speaker 1: that this is the first time you're hearing us this week,
0:22
Speaker 1: because you have been enjoying our bonus episodes all October long.
0:28
Speaker 1: But I have to say, I'm so fucking happy Halloween
0:33
Speaker 1: is over. Well, I mean, we're actually coming to from
0:36
Speaker 1: the past. We are recording this pond actual Halloween. But girl,
0:42
Speaker 1: this year it really really dragged. You know, as someone
0:45
Speaker 1: who claims to be a Halloween queen, as this is
0:50
Speaker 1: your favorite holiday, I believe I never said that. I
0:55
Speaker 1: definitely think you've said that before. And I'm a spooky girl.
0:59
Speaker 1: I'm not in a necessarily the Halloween devotee. All that
1:04
Speaker 1: is to say, you're being a real Halloween grinch right now.
1:07
Speaker 1: You are just Mount Crumpet. Well, actually, what's the mountain
1:10
Speaker 1: in nightming Ri Christmas? That's like the mountain I don't
1:12
Speaker 1: think it has a name, just like the curly curly mountain,
1:15
Speaker 1: little little hill. No, obviously I love Halloween. It just
1:20
Speaker 1: I have to say I was very unimpressed by the
1:22
Speaker 1: celebrity Halloween costumes this year, and the person who won
1:26
Speaker 1: Halloween in my opinion was Addison Raye. Addison ray doing
1:32
Speaker 1: her Lady Gaga Paparazzi VMA's look like I was gagged.
1:37
Speaker 1: I do kind of unfortunately agree that was a winner costume.
1:41
Speaker 1: But all that is to say, Halloween is over now
1:43
Speaker 1: and we are entering the holidays. You did you did?
1:46
Speaker 1: You just like flip a switch and now, like Mariah Carry,
1:49
Speaker 1: Christmas is playing or maybe probably Kelly Clarkson knowing you
1:53
Speaker 1: you do? You know me? Well? I like first thing
1:56
Speaker 1: tomorrow I will be listening to Kelly Clarkson's Christmas out them.
2:00
Speaker 1: Although you know what, maybe I should take some learnings
2:03
Speaker 1: from Halloween and pace myself. But it's fine because I'm
2:07
Speaker 1: going to be very busy over the next couple of weeks. Anyway.
2:10
Speaker 1: I am about to start moving back to New York.
2:15
Speaker 1: I um have a new apartment here. I'm flying back
2:19
Speaker 1: to l A tomorrow to start packing up my stuff,
2:22
Speaker 1: and I'll be back here in a couple of weeks.
2:24
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna let the chips fall where they
2:27
Speaker 1: may when it comes to holiday stuff. Although I will
2:31
Speaker 1: be getting a Christmas tree this year a big old
2:34
Speaker 1: Christmas tree. Okay, yes, we um we you know, we've
2:38
Speaker 1: been out and about, We've had COVID, we've had depressive episodes,
2:42
Speaker 1: and we realized that there's tons on our backlog of
2:45
Speaker 1: what we've been watching, reading, listening to and uh, we
2:50
Speaker 1: decided to devote all of today's episode to the hot
2:53
Speaker 1: topics of the last month. Where do we even start?
2:56
Speaker 1: This is the like of Virgin October ending summit. Um,
3:02
Speaker 1: there has been a lot going on in culture and
3:05
Speaker 1: we friend, you and I have not even seen each
3:09
Speaker 1: other this month except for once to record an episode
3:15
Speaker 1: um that will be coming next week on Indie Sleeves,
3:18
Speaker 1: so you all should be very excited about that. And
3:20
Speaker 1: then there was the time that you brought me soup
3:22
Speaker 1: when I was sick, but I only talked to you
3:25
Speaker 1: through the door each other. Now is finally the time
3:29
Speaker 1: to come together talk about the things that all the
3:33
Speaker 1: girlies are talking about. I think I would say top
3:35
Speaker 1: of my list is we now have both seen Tar,
3:40
Speaker 1: and Tar is the name on everybody's lips. It really
3:44
Speaker 1: is like and it feels like it's going to be
3:46
Speaker 1: an ongoing conversation as we enter Awards season. But damn,
3:51
Speaker 1: this movie was good. Rose, Like you primed me. Obviously
3:55
Speaker 1: everyone has primed me, but this was like such an
3:58
Speaker 1: incredible movie. And you know, it was two and a
4:02
Speaker 1: half hours long. I did not pee once. I did
4:04
Speaker 1: not have to pe. I was enthralled the whole time.
4:08
Speaker 1: I never felt antsy, it did not feel overly long.
4:12
Speaker 1: I was enthralled throughout the entirety of it. I want
4:16
Speaker 1: to see it again, you know. I didn't want to
4:18
Speaker 1: lead with the negative, but I actually will just I'm gonna, yeah,
4:22
Speaker 1: but I will, and I'm gonna get it out of
4:24
Speaker 1: the way because it's on what you just mentioned. You know,
4:28
Speaker 1: the length, to me is a hundred percent earned. But
4:31
Speaker 1: I did walk out of this film feeling like there
4:36
Speaker 1: were many parts that were undeniably boring because of the
4:44
Speaker 1: length of the cuts. I believe the longest scene in
4:48
Speaker 1: this movie without a cut is like ten or eleven minutes.
4:52
Speaker 1: It's like it's that, um, the scene in the lecture hall,
4:55
Speaker 1: no spoilers, that's so incredible, incredible scene. Um. And I
5:00
Speaker 1: think when I walked out, I was kind of like
5:02
Speaker 1: this movie was like kind of up its own ass
5:04
Speaker 1: and like it was like, you know, way too long
5:07
Speaker 1: and like these are the I like kind of walked
5:09
Speaker 1: out of it feeling like I didn't love the movie,
5:11
Speaker 1: and I also don't like the ending. But as I
5:15
Speaker 1: sat with it and digested it, um, I think twenty
5:18
Speaker 1: four hours later, I was like, wait, Like the mundaneity
5:23
Speaker 1: that I was feeling watching some of these scenes was
5:26
Speaker 1: actually part of the brilliance because, for example, I guess,
5:32
Speaker 1: like I can spoil this the first we were spoiling
5:36
Speaker 1: we need everyone, Okay, okay, well it's Phoebe's like, I'm
5:42
Speaker 1: going to mute you. I don't want it spoiled. Um.
5:46
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the thing that
5:47
Speaker 1: makes this movie brilliant is that it is a perfect
5:51
Speaker 1: and very truthful character study. And Lydia Tar is so
5:55
Speaker 1: lived in and such a real character that she actually
5:58
Speaker 1: by the end of the movie, You're like, this is
6:00
Speaker 1: a real woman. This is a real woman. In two
6:02
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go, like, consume more Lydiatar. Um. Yeah,
6:06
Speaker 1: Like I truly believe that she exists in the world.
6:09
Speaker 1: Like I would go to Spotify and type in lydiatar
6:14
Speaker 1: expecting to find her entire discography. I'm really surprised you
6:19
Speaker 1: didn't like the ending because I loved the ending. I
6:24
Speaker 1: walked out of the theater cackling because the ending was
6:29
Speaker 1: just so abrupt and hilarious and perfect. Okay, well, I
6:35
Speaker 1: mean I have nuanced thoughts on it. But the first
6:38
Speaker 1: four minutes of the movie is Lydiatar literally at a
6:43
Speaker 1: New Yorker talk with Adam Gottnick, which is hilarious. And um,
6:47
Speaker 1: it's just him listing off every single one of her
6:51
Speaker 1: credits and the camera is not moving. Okay, the credits
6:56
Speaker 1: are being listed. I am sitting watching this at bam okay,
7:01
Speaker 1: so like it almost feels like I'm at the New
7:04
Speaker 1: Yorker talk and and and I would get bored at
7:08
Speaker 1: a New Yorker talk. And in the first four minutes
7:10
Speaker 1: of the movie, I found myself being like, wait, how
7:13
Speaker 1: long is this gonna go? Like wait, really like this
7:15
Speaker 1: is like such a lot. I just felt confused. But
7:19
Speaker 1: as you realize what the stylings of the movie are
7:22
Speaker 1: and how it's it's really trying to create a hyper
7:26
Speaker 1: realism that is so pulled off by the brilliance of
7:29
Speaker 1: Cape Blanchet, I think that truthfulness and that realness is
7:33
Speaker 1: what ended up making me like the movie a lot more. Um,
7:37
Speaker 1: But okay, let's talk about the ending. If we're going
7:40
Speaker 1: to talk about the ending, I thought that that truthfulness
7:45
Speaker 1: presented a very complex villain slash bully like she she's
7:50
Speaker 1: basically like a lesbian douchebag, right. Yeah. I love that
7:54
Speaker 1: she refers to herself as a U haul lesbian and
7:56
Speaker 1: the first twenty minutes of the movie she is a genius,
8:00
Speaker 1: you hauled lesbian And at no point do you doubt
8:03
Speaker 1: that she's a genius. Like that I think is something
8:06
Speaker 1: that's very well portrayed. And so when you see the
8:10
Speaker 1: kind of ways that she is abusive, manipulative, not in
8:13
Speaker 1: the right mind taking advantage of like her cloud and power,
8:17
Speaker 1: Like she's a woman who is obsessed with power, you
8:19
Speaker 1: as an audience member might find yourself for giving her
8:22
Speaker 1: because she is so brilliant. Um. And I think that
8:26
Speaker 1: what I loved about the entirety of her kind of cancelation,
8:29
Speaker 1: because this character is essentially canceled for we still find
8:33
Speaker 1: out she she too. Um. When you walk away from
8:36
Speaker 1: the movie, depending on who you are, you're going to
8:39
Speaker 1: have a very different assessment of whether you think Lydia
8:42
Speaker 1: tar got what she deserved or not right. And the
8:46
Speaker 1: reason I didn't like the ending is because I felt
8:48
Speaker 1: that it had an opinion on the fate of Lydia
8:52
Speaker 1: Tar and I didn't. And what do you think that
8:54
Speaker 1: opinion is? I felt the opinion was that she got
8:57
Speaker 1: what she deserved, and I was kind of like, I mean, yes, sure,
9:03
Speaker 1: but I also was kind of like the whole movie
9:06
Speaker 1: was presenting the truth and then all of a sudden,
9:09
Speaker 1: I got this kind of very ham fisted like and
9:12
Speaker 1: then she's got this chicken shit gig at the end,
9:16
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, and I was like,
9:18
Speaker 1: I don't know about this, and I also like didn't
9:20
Speaker 1: like that it was like a like a sci fi
9:24
Speaker 1: like immersive experience and like him, So that was so
9:28
Speaker 1: perfect though, because it shows how far she's fallen. And
9:32
Speaker 1: I do still think it is. I like what you're
9:35
Speaker 1: saying about how the movie tries to provide this objective
9:38
Speaker 1: truth about her life and about what happens. And I
9:41
Speaker 1: do think that happens at the ending. I think maybe
9:46
Speaker 1: what it does more than provide a judgment, is it
9:48
Speaker 1: kind of tricks you a little bit because it shows
9:52
Speaker 1: that even though this woman has lost everything and is
9:55
Speaker 1: that her rock bottom. She still is so full of
10:00
Speaker 1: herself and still so believes her own mythology that she's
10:04
Speaker 1: treating this chicken ship gig like she is still you know,
10:09
Speaker 1: doing the best work of her life. And it's only
10:13
Speaker 1: that one second at the ending when you realize how
10:17
Speaker 1: far she's fallen. And I just fucking loved that. Yeah,
10:21
Speaker 1: I didn't know. The thing is like part of me
10:25
Speaker 1: was rooting for Lydia. I was like, maybe part of
10:31
Speaker 1: me was rooting for Lydia a little bit. How fucked
10:33
Speaker 1: up is that? But I think even though she drove
10:35
Speaker 1: a woman to suicide, oh my god. Um, but that's
10:41
Speaker 1: the thing. It does make you root for Lydia like
10:43
Speaker 1: it is her movie, it's you. And that is I
10:47
Speaker 1: think why it's so masterful is you know from the
10:51
Speaker 1: beginning that this is a bad person, and yet you
10:54
Speaker 1: are still right there with her throughout the whole movie,
10:57
Speaker 1: and it you know, we there. There is this whole
11:00
Speaker 1: genre today of you know, like the good for her movie,
11:04
Speaker 1: the you know, women doing bad things, complicated female characters,
11:09
Speaker 1: and this I definitely think is part of the you know,
11:13
Speaker 1: the canon of that. But it it complicates it because
11:17
Speaker 1: this is not a woman doing a bad thing too,
11:21
Speaker 1: people who deserve it. It's just a woman doing bad things,
11:25
Speaker 1: and yet we still love her. And I think, like,
11:28
Speaker 1: I think that's probably part of the reason why she
11:32
Speaker 1: was queer. Like, obviously her queerness is a function of
11:34
Speaker 1: the way that she's been able to enact harm. But
11:38
Speaker 1: I think introducing her as a lesbian so early in
11:41
Speaker 1: the film, like you know, a coastal elite liberal audience
11:44
Speaker 1: is like, yes, oh my god, like a movie about
11:46
Speaker 1: a lesbian. We love her. And then like she's fucking
11:50
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, the well, she's not Harvey Weinstein, right,
11:54
Speaker 1: not Harvey Weinstein, but she she is someone who had us,
11:59
Speaker 1: who's had a lifetime of like manipulative behavior and then
12:03
Speaker 1: one infraction that we've seen that is absolutely damning, right,
12:09
Speaker 1: And I think that that is like kind of what
12:12
Speaker 1: I'm getting at is that, um, I would have I
12:17
Speaker 1: wish that there was an ending that was like more complicated,
12:20
Speaker 1: right where she maybe had a victory and also a
12:24
Speaker 1: failure or something. Honestly, because I liked the movie so
12:28
Speaker 1: much and I felt so not okay about the ending.
12:31
Speaker 1: I'm just being kind of esoteric and fanny about what
12:34
Speaker 1: I wanted to see about the film, but like, I
12:36
Speaker 1: think that's something okay. I wanted to see her strap
12:39
Speaker 1: because you know, a better a longer sex scene would
12:44
Speaker 1: have been nice. I will say, virgins. If you're going
12:46
Speaker 1: to go see this movie, I would advocate for you
12:50
Speaker 1: to one note that it is really funny. Like the
12:54
Speaker 1: audience at BAM wanted this to be, you know, a
12:58
Speaker 1: fucking serious movie, and no one would laugh at the jokes.
13:01
Speaker 1: There was one other faggot on the other end of
13:03
Speaker 1: the theater that was like laughing at like you know
13:04
Speaker 1: e good or like hello, I am Petra's father. I
13:08
Speaker 1: was like, genius, Like there's so many lives. Was such
13:11
Speaker 1: an incredible scene, incredible scene. Um, but I don't know. Um.
13:16
Speaker 1: The only other part that I didn't like, Literally, the
13:18
Speaker 1: only other thing that I didn't like about the movie
13:21
Speaker 1: was this lecture hall scene where her student says, as
13:25
Speaker 1: a BIPOC pan gender. I was like, girl, like, the
13:31
Speaker 1: whole movie is so real. This you don't you don't
13:37
Speaker 1: think that's real. There's no one in their right mind
13:41
Speaker 1: who would say as a BIPOC pan gender because it
13:47
Speaker 1: is one like no person of color says like bipoc
13:51
Speaker 1: like that outside of like a like corporate setting in
13:55
Speaker 1: my opinion, And also it's an incorrect use of the
13:58
Speaker 1: word pan gender because pan gender is like they nownified it.
14:03
Speaker 1: So I was just like, because the script was so
14:05
Speaker 1: real and they were such real characters, that was a
14:08
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, there's a very easy way
14:11
Speaker 1: to paint a character that like doesn't really know what
14:14
Speaker 1: they're talking about in a space of social justice, but
14:17
Speaker 1: bipack pan gender just felt like. That was another moment
14:20
Speaker 1: where I was like, this script has an opinion on
14:23
Speaker 1: this person. I get that the language is clunky, but
14:28
Speaker 1: that scene felt incredibly real. The scene is incredible. If
14:34
Speaker 1: the scene is incredible, and even with the sort of
14:37
Speaker 1: clunkiness of the language, that just felt very truthful to me.
14:42
Speaker 1: I agree the of the way that some people do
14:46
Speaker 1: weaponize their marginalized identity. Oh yeah, like, oh yeah, everything
14:51
Speaker 1: about I have to clarify. Everything about the scene worked
14:54
Speaker 1: for me, with the exception of that line, like, I
14:57
Speaker 1: really like the movie is a ten of ten for me,
15:01
Speaker 1: and my notes are on the ending and that one line.
15:04
Speaker 1: Really I also was thinking a lot about how there's
15:07
Speaker 1: that movie she said coming out that's like literally about
15:12
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein and the way that the story was broken,
15:15
Speaker 1: and it stars Carrie Mulligan, and it just looks so
15:21
Speaker 1: like it's such an I roll, like it's going to
15:24
Speaker 1: be very um that movie that came out a couple
15:27
Speaker 1: of years ago that was about Megan Kelly um and
15:29
Speaker 1: it just made me think of where now this award
15:33
Speaker 1: season going to have these two films that are both
15:36
Speaker 1: dealing with the idea of me too and like cancel culture.
15:40
Speaker 1: And one of them tar did it in this very
15:43
Speaker 1: artful way that was very much a character story, and
15:45
Speaker 1: the other one is going to do it in this
15:47
Speaker 1: very obvious way that is very you know, like sensationalist.
15:51
Speaker 1: And I will just always want the art. I will
15:56
Speaker 1: always want the character. And I think this deep portrait
16:02
Speaker 1: of this very flawed, abusive woman is so much more
16:09
Speaker 1: illustrative of what's wrong in our culture than I think
16:13
Speaker 1: this Like, I mean, obviously I haven't seen it, but
16:16
Speaker 1: this bombastic, like you know, ripped from the headlines like
16:21
Speaker 1: self righteous movie could ever be right because those movies
16:26
Speaker 1: have like a kind of right and wrong dichotomy, with
16:30
Speaker 1: like clear lines on who the film is rooting for.
16:33
Speaker 1: And I just think that there should be more movies
16:36
Speaker 1: like Tar that are not trying to force you to
16:42
Speaker 1: root for a specific side. And I went like, as
16:46
Speaker 1: I said at the beginning, I walked out of this
16:48
Speaker 1: film and I didn't love how I felt, and I
16:51
Speaker 1: part of what I was processing was I thought that
16:54
Speaker 1: the movie was very muddled in what it was trying
16:57
Speaker 1: to say. I was like, I don't really get what
16:58
Speaker 1: it's trying to say about cancel culture. And because cancel
17:00
Speaker 1: culture is such a hot button issue, of course, I
17:02
Speaker 1: was like trying so hard to examine it. And then
17:05
Speaker 1: a day later I was like, oh, no, no, like
17:08
Speaker 1: it's not trying to say anything like it's that is
17:11
Speaker 1: why it's so good, Like it actually is is presenting
17:15
Speaker 1: to you a situation and letting you decide how you
17:20
Speaker 1: feel about it. Um And I think that more films
17:23
Speaker 1: should do that, especially with something like cancel culture that
17:26
Speaker 1: is so flattened in every other area of our lives
17:29
Speaker 1: that we consume it. Yeah, and told this story and
17:32
Speaker 1: was still a beautiful movie. Yes. I loved how bleak
17:36
Speaker 1: and colorless it was. It was so berlin. It reminded
17:40
Speaker 1: me a lot of Suspiria, which I just did my
17:42
Speaker 1: annual rewatch of I do think they exist in the
17:45
Speaker 1: same cinematic universe. Um, the music was incredible, Like as
17:49
Speaker 1: someone who sometimes dabbles a little bit in in classical music,
17:53
Speaker 1: like I just I really appreciated it. Um and lyditar.
17:58
Speaker 1: I hope she's on my Spotify wrapped this year. Speaking
18:14
Speaker 1: of music, I finally listened to an album today that
18:17
Speaker 1: you had told me that you've been listening to and
18:20
Speaker 1: really loved, which was Willows new album, And I know
18:25
Speaker 1: you were excited to talk about it, Um, and I
18:29
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. Let me tell you, I enjoyed the
18:34
Speaker 1: New Willow album more than Carly Ray and Taylor combines.
18:38
Speaker 1: Like obviously they're presenting very different things and shouldn't be compared,
18:42
Speaker 1: but like I'm just saying, that's how much I loved
18:45
Speaker 1: this album because Taylor and Carly like are my queens.
18:49
Speaker 1: This is essentially I don't know how you would describe
18:52
Speaker 1: it risk, but I would. I would call it a
18:54
Speaker 1: kind of like punk maybe like emo metal revivalist album.
19:00
Speaker 1: It has all of those elements that also at times
19:03
Speaker 1: is a little bit industrial. There's some new wave influence
19:08
Speaker 1: on it, but she's still all those things. But she
19:11
Speaker 1: still has really sweet, really um like smooth at times,
19:17
Speaker 1: r and b at times, pop vocals that elevated and
19:21
Speaker 1: pay homage to her references like you know, the paramours
19:26
Speaker 1: and the machinery Avril Levine's you know to me, like
19:31
Speaker 1: I remember when we first talked about the Olivial old
19:33
Speaker 1: Rigo album, you know, a year ago, I said that
19:36
Speaker 1: my favorite songs were the songs like Brutal and good
19:40
Speaker 1: for You that went all the way in the Avril
19:44
Speaker 1: Levine territory and committed to it, and that I wish
19:46
Speaker 1: the rest of the album was like that. To me,
19:49
Speaker 1: this album did what I esoteric Lee wanted Olivia Rodrigo
19:54
Speaker 1: to do and loved Demi Lovado for like giving homage
19:58
Speaker 1: to that moment or like other people that have been
20:00
Speaker 1: trying to do like the kind of punk revival thing,
20:04
Speaker 1: but this was it for me. It is so pretty
20:08
Speaker 1: well because I think Willow goes even further than you know,
20:13
Speaker 1: the people that were referencing as sort of the punk revival,
20:18
Speaker 1: Like she's not even really referencing Avril Levine. She's referencing
20:23
Speaker 1: the people that Avril Levine and Paramore were referencing. She's
20:27
Speaker 1: going she's going directly to the source. She's drinking straight
20:30
Speaker 1: from the top. This is punk filtered through pop in
20:36
Speaker 1: a real way, and not this sort of like double
20:39
Speaker 1: re blog that we're seeing a lot of the girlies
20:43
Speaker 1: doing nowadays. That's such a good point. And also, like
20:47
Speaker 1: on top of that, I do believe Willow has been
20:49
Speaker 1: dabbling and making punk music for a while, like I
20:52
Speaker 1: think she's she's released like punk tracks before, maybe even
20:56
Speaker 1: Olivia Rodrigo did, But this is her first like album
21:01
Speaker 1: dedicated to a genre of music that she clearly has
21:04
Speaker 1: so much respect for. And I think that it was
21:09
Speaker 1: the respect that I that I heard. I heard like
21:11
Speaker 1: so much love and adoration for a genre that to
21:16
Speaker 1: me hasn't been around for a while, you know, and
21:20
Speaker 1: it's it's so well crafted. The production is really amazing.
21:25
Speaker 1: I love the way that her vocals are layered and distorted,
21:30
Speaker 1: and just the like wall of sound that exists on
21:33
Speaker 1: a lot of the songs UM. Some of the standouts
21:36
Speaker 1: for me were Split, which was probably my favorite song
21:39
Speaker 1: on the album, UM perfectly not Close to Me, which
21:43
Speaker 1: has Eve's tumor on it um, which was great, and
21:46
Speaker 1: that was a little technoi, a little housey. Yeah, it's
21:49
Speaker 1: a little it's a little industrial, which I love. Um
21:52
Speaker 1: and then hover like a goddess. Great. So it did
21:57
Speaker 1: also remind me um of Halsey's album that she put
22:02
Speaker 1: out last year, which was one of my favorites. Um,
22:05
Speaker 1: If I can't If I can't have Love, I Want Power,
22:08
Speaker 1: which I really enjoyed. Yeah. I've been really surprised by
22:15
Speaker 1: Willow you know so much over the past couple of years.
22:18
Speaker 1: I think she's making really good music, working with the
22:21
Speaker 1: right people, you know, has the right references, has this
22:26
Speaker 1: prolific output of music, and I think it's really cool
22:30
Speaker 1: that she can be an artist who has a song
22:33
Speaker 1: go viral in the way that Meet Me at Our
22:35
Speaker 1: Spot did, and like be at the forefront of culture
22:38
Speaker 1: in that way. But like still like really double down
22:42
Speaker 1: on making the kind of music that she wants to
22:45
Speaker 1: make exactly. And like I also, as someone who's been
22:49
Speaker 1: listening to Willow for a while, I think this is
22:51
Speaker 1: her first like no Skips album, like uh they or
22:55
Speaker 1: rather for me like I thought it was no Skips.
22:58
Speaker 1: I loved all of the tracks that you did. I
23:00
Speaker 1: also loved Curious Slash Furious. I love the last song
23:05
Speaker 1: bat shit, Like it reminded me a little bit obviously
23:09
Speaker 1: completely different, but like it did remind me of Sleigh
23:12
Speaker 1: Bells too, in that the balance of metal with like
23:17
Speaker 1: really sweet vocal vocals and really gorgeous distortion championing you know,
23:23
Speaker 1: a woman's voice on the track, and I just like
23:27
Speaker 1: want more like this. I'm just I really like that
23:33
Speaker 1: we're hearing artists like Willow and even Taylor on Midnight's
23:38
Speaker 1: emote in their music. Like that's one of the things
23:41
Speaker 1: that I love about, you know, rock and punk music
23:45
Speaker 1: is you know, when the sound becomes a scream, and
23:48
Speaker 1: Willow really wails on some of these songs, and those
23:51
Speaker 1: are some of the parts of Midnights that I liked
23:53
Speaker 1: the most, is when you could hear the pain and
23:56
Speaker 1: Taylor's voice, like on what have could have should have said,
23:59
Speaker 1: give me back my girlhood? It was mine first. That's
24:04
Speaker 1: really effective in music when you can hear the emotion
24:08
Speaker 1: rather than just you know, having to parse it yourself
24:11
Speaker 1: from a lyric, the emotional cual. I thought Willow did
24:14
Speaker 1: that so well. It brings it all the way home,
24:17
Speaker 1: and I honestly feel like it's not getting it's do
24:19
Speaker 1: like everyone should be listening to and talking about this
24:22
Speaker 1: fucking album. It's so good. Um, maybe an album that
24:26
Speaker 1: does not have as much of an emotional quality. Did
24:29
Speaker 1: you did you listen to the new Carle Raight album
24:32
Speaker 1: by chance? I did. I've listened to it once, kind
24:35
Speaker 1: of in the background while I was reading. I haven't
24:39
Speaker 1: given it a closer listen. It's you know, Carly is
24:45
Speaker 1: kind of still making the same music. I could recognize
24:50
Speaker 1: that there were a couple of songs that I listened
24:52
Speaker 1: to that I liked more than others, But it just
24:56
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel moved to listen again. And I'm
25:00
Speaker 1: sure it will be something that is on the rotation
25:03
Speaker 1: of things that I put on in the background, But
25:07
Speaker 1: and you know, not not to start with the negatives.
25:09
Speaker 1: And like, I love Carly, I love emotion. I even
25:13
Speaker 1: really like a lot of dedicated but Carly just kind
25:20
Speaker 1: of makes the same song over and over again. Yeah,
25:22
Speaker 1: I'm I'm feeling the repetitiveness too. And the thing about emotion,
25:26
Speaker 1: and part of the reason it was so sublime was
25:29
Speaker 1: because before that moment, Carly was just the call me
25:32
Speaker 1: maybe girl right, she was making trash music, well trash
25:37
Speaker 1: according to some music that felt like Disney Channel esque, right,
25:40
Speaker 1: and then she was like, let me tap all of
25:42
Speaker 1: these exquisite producers, all these producers that I admire, and
25:46
Speaker 1: see what they can do with my sound. And as
25:48
Speaker 1: a songwriter, I think that's like an incredible thing for
25:51
Speaker 1: her to do. And so Emotion felt like such a
25:53
Speaker 1: triumph because it was such an elevation of what Carly
25:57
Speaker 1: was able to give. And these other two albums feel
26:01
Speaker 1: like kind of like Midnights as well. Uh, the B
26:04
Speaker 1: sides of the B sides right like, these were like
26:07
Speaker 1: Sea sides to me, and like Carly and Taylor share
26:11
Speaker 1: the proliferation component, right Like. I think she wrote like
26:14
Speaker 1: two songs for emotion, like she kind of always she
26:17
Speaker 1: is very Dolly esque, um, and I think that that
26:20
Speaker 1: can be a wonderful thing. But also part of the
26:23
Speaker 1: weakness here is that there's too much material and not
26:27
Speaker 1: enough focus on defining what exactly these songs want to say.
26:32
Speaker 1: And I I just I want her to give me
26:37
Speaker 1: what I want. I love the Rufus Waynewright song though,
26:40
Speaker 1: But the thing is, I don't even really know what
26:42
Speaker 1: I want from Carly because I think the problem is
26:46
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, I do want
26:48
Speaker 1: more emotion, and she keeps trying to replicate it, so like,
26:53
Speaker 1: in a way, she's giving me what I want. It's
26:56
Speaker 1: just not really working because I already got the best
26:59
Speaker 1: of it. My theory, my theory on that, honestly, is like,
27:04
Speaker 1: so Carly does have a really emotional quality to her voice, yes,
27:08
Speaker 1: but she her voice is still very thin, right, She's
27:11
Speaker 1: not a vocalist. She can't do what a tailor can
27:13
Speaker 1: do or what a willow can do. I mean those
27:15
Speaker 1: I'm only mentioned this because they're the last two people
27:17
Speaker 1: that we talked about. They're not really in any sort
27:19
Speaker 1: of category, but just because they're the conversations of what
27:23
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I'm just like, her voice is just thin.
27:26
Speaker 1: It doesn't have that magnanimousness. And when you if you
27:29
Speaker 1: ever see her perform on stage, she just kind of
27:32
Speaker 1: like jumps around and it's like, cool, we love you.
27:35
Speaker 1: But like I was like, you know what, I like,
27:38
Speaker 1: listen to this album and I was like, you know
27:39
Speaker 1: what it is, Carly doesn't have a personality, and she
27:45
Speaker 1: doesn't have a personality or an aesthetic or anything. And
27:48
Speaker 1: because we there, we don't have the complete package of
27:53
Speaker 1: who she is. As a pop star. We as audiences
27:57
Speaker 1: aren't able to place her, aren't able to place her
28:01
Speaker 1: or and we're not able to plant meaning, more meaning,
28:06
Speaker 1: and more personableness and relatableness into her music because we
28:10
Speaker 1: don't really know that much about her. Um And I
28:13
Speaker 1: don't know that's not really that's kind of I feel
28:15
Speaker 1: kind of mean saying that, But I do feel like
28:18
Speaker 1: it's a management issue. Like you and I don't remember
28:21
Speaker 1: where we were, but like we were like in an
28:22
Speaker 1: uber or something, and you were like, if you could
28:24
Speaker 1: manage like one, you know, one person, and if you
28:27
Speaker 1: could creative direct one celebrity, someone who really needs to
28:32
Speaker 1: get it together. I mean, Carle maybe would be that girl,
28:35
Speaker 1: because she makes really good music. And I just don't
28:40
Speaker 1: think that she showed us a point of view behind
28:44
Speaker 1: this kind of like I'm an awkward, lonely, little weird
28:49
Speaker 1: girl and I fall in love sometimes too, and I'm like, Okay,
28:53
Speaker 1: Even Emotion, which is one of the best pop albums
28:56
Speaker 1: of this millennium, has no aesthetic, has no good music videos.
29:01
Speaker 1: The album cover is stupid. It just happens to have
29:06
Speaker 1: incredible music on it, hedible music. UM So I want
29:10
Speaker 1: the world I want her to world build, and I
29:13
Speaker 1: hope that the next you know, album cycle is that
29:17
Speaker 1: for her. Let's talk about interview with the Vampire. UM.
29:35
Speaker 1: Did you watch this week's episode? I actually didn't finish. UM.
29:40
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think so far, and
29:41
Speaker 1: then I'll kind of go into how I was digesting
29:44
Speaker 1: this last episode. I love it. It's my favorite show
29:47
Speaker 1: on TV. And now the House of the Dragon is over. Um.
29:52
Speaker 1: Next week is the season finale, and I like, literally
29:55
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm gonna do with my life without it.
29:58
Speaker 1: I just keep being impressed with the way it is
30:01
Speaker 1: adapting the source material and the choices it's making, and
30:05
Speaker 1: how it is reinterpreting the original story and preserving the
30:13
Speaker 1: things that work and changing the things that don't and
30:17
Speaker 1: re contextualizing things like I as hard as it is
30:21
Speaker 1: to watch, I think giving Lestat and Louise relationship the
30:27
Speaker 1: proper context of a truly abusive relationship works really well
30:33
Speaker 1: because it's not something that's ever been explored with this
30:37
Speaker 1: kind of depth before, and it is hard to watch it,
30:41
Speaker 1: you know, Like this week's episode was really hard to
30:44
Speaker 1: watch Louis go back to his abuser, but it felt
30:50
Speaker 1: very It felt very real to me, and it's something
30:54
Speaker 1: that has like long gone unsaid in the way that
30:58
Speaker 1: their relationship has been talked about, Like, yes, people always
31:01
Speaker 1: say that they're toxic, but it's abusive, and it it
31:04
Speaker 1: does I think what fantasy should do, which is like
31:09
Speaker 1: take a real life dynamic and exaggerated through the lens
31:13
Speaker 1: of fiction, because if you had an abusive partner who
31:17
Speaker 1: had superpowers, this shows us what might happen in the circumstances.
31:24
Speaker 1: I also really love this depiction of Claudia and I
31:30
Speaker 1: Claudia has always been my favorite character and interview with
31:34
Speaker 1: the vampire Um, and I think the choice to make
31:39
Speaker 1: her a teenager is so interesting because yes, there is
31:45
Speaker 1: so much tragedy in Claudia being a woman trapped in
31:49
Speaker 1: a child's body, and that is tragic. But I think
31:54
Speaker 1: making her a teenager so she knows she's missing out
32:01
Speaker 1: on she is on the cusp of womanhood, she can
32:04
Speaker 1: have those experiences and be even further away from them
32:09
Speaker 1: is so it is such an emotional gut punch, and
32:14
Speaker 1: it doesn't I'm not saying it's better than the original,
32:17
Speaker 1: but it's and it's incredibly satisfying in its you know,
32:22
Speaker 1: um like devastation, UM take on that character and just
32:28
Speaker 1: it makes sense. This reboot makes sense, like there is
32:32
Speaker 1: a reason to be retelling the story in a new way.
32:36
Speaker 1: And that's what I love so much about this version
32:39
Speaker 1: of it is that it truly is adapting and updating
32:43
Speaker 1: and playing with the source material in a way that
32:47
Speaker 1: makes it more relevant to the time that it's speaking
32:50
Speaker 1: to and the time that it's being consumed in. The
32:55
Speaker 1: reboot really does justify itself, like this material needed further
33:00
Speaker 1: exploration and adapting. And I also much prefer the way
33:04
Speaker 1: this Claudia is written, um as much as I love
33:08
Speaker 1: Kiki uh I, I think for me, what I realized
33:12
Speaker 1: UM watching this most recent half of this most recent
33:15
Speaker 1: episode was that, um My, the fact that I don't
33:19
Speaker 1: have an attachment to the source material is part of
33:22
Speaker 1: the reason I am falling off a little bit. And
33:26
Speaker 1: I think that if I was invested from square one
33:31
Speaker 1: in the original story, which I don't really know anything about.
33:34
Speaker 1: I did not google the full plot of the o
33:37
Speaker 1: G interview with the Vampire, right like I didn't read
33:40
Speaker 1: the full plot Summer. I only know the basics, so
33:43
Speaker 1: I don't know as much about what's been changed and
33:45
Speaker 1: what hasn't. So you describing that like and placings like
33:48
Speaker 1: some of these things that have been changed, actually makes
33:51
Speaker 1: me appreciate it even more. I think that just the
33:54
Speaker 1: bones of the plot art not mighty like and I
33:58
Speaker 1: and that's not, you know, the moved that the show's fault, right, Like,
34:02
Speaker 1: I don't think fatherhood is an interesting theme in anything,
34:06
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to watch things about fatherhood. I
34:09
Speaker 1: don't want to watch things really about children. I think
34:12
Speaker 1: this Claudia, as you said, is amazing, and I do
34:15
Speaker 1: like the teen The teendom of her is is definitely compelling,
34:21
Speaker 1: and this actress is really compelling. Um but I Listat
34:29
Speaker 1: is so irredeemably abusive. I I just wish that he was.
34:37
Speaker 1: I wish there was a little more subtlety on him
34:40
Speaker 1: and a little less subtlety on Louis, because Louis to
34:44
Speaker 1: me a lot I feel like a lot of time,
34:47
Speaker 1: not all the time, obviously, but a lot of times
34:49
Speaker 1: things are just happening to him, Like I wish that
34:52
Speaker 1: he made more choices in the show instead of being
34:58
Speaker 1: so beholden to List's ongoing abuse manipulation twists and turns,
35:04
Speaker 1: and with LISTA. I wish that he I'm I'm okay
35:09
Speaker 1: with all of the things that you know, all the
35:11
Speaker 1: way all the ways that he's abusing Louis, Like, yes,
35:14
Speaker 1: that's like a real person. But I just like wish
35:16
Speaker 1: that there was a little more restraint on how insidious
35:23
Speaker 1: and how a moral he is, Like I wanted, I
35:28
Speaker 1: want redemption from him beyond how hot he is. And
35:33
Speaker 1: for me, the only thing that redeems him is how
35:37
Speaker 1: hot and romantic he is, and I don't know that
35:40
Speaker 1: and that would be enough for me if there was
35:43
Speaker 1: more subtlety to his character. You know, I see what
35:46
Speaker 1: you're saying. I think it's interesting that you say that
35:49
Speaker 1: Louis doesn't make choices when I actually think he makes
35:52
Speaker 1: a lot of choices. No, I said he makes he
35:55
Speaker 1: doesn't make as many choices as I would like. I
35:57
Speaker 1: didn't say he makes zero choices. Yeah, because I do
36:01
Speaker 1: think Louis is a character who's driven by the choices
36:04
Speaker 1: he makes. I mean, his choice not to drink human
36:06
Speaker 1: blood is what defines him and is the big, the
36:10
Speaker 1: huge schism um in his relationship with Lestat and even
36:15
Speaker 1: with Claudia Um and then with the Listat of it all,
36:21
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, I actually don't. I actually
36:24
Speaker 1: prefer him as a character who can't be redeemed because
36:28
Speaker 1: you know what this season is all building towards and
36:31
Speaker 1: like the spoiler alert, but like this isn't a spoiler um.
36:35
Speaker 1: You know, in the finale, um is leading to Claudia's
36:39
Speaker 1: attempt to kill Lestat, And I actually think the way
36:44
Speaker 1: that Lestat is being depicted and his abuse of louis
36:48
Speaker 1: so much more gives gives such a clearer reasoning for
36:52
Speaker 1: Claudia to want to kill him, because in the novel
36:57
Speaker 1: and in film, you know, were led to understand that
37:01
Speaker 1: Claudie wants to kill him because Lestat is a liar
37:04
Speaker 1: and because he won't tell them about the you know,
37:06
Speaker 1: their origins and other vampires, and because he kind of
37:10
Speaker 1: sees them as his playthings rather than they truly need
37:15
Speaker 1: to escape him and he won't allow them to. I mean,
37:17
Speaker 1: there's this devastating scene at the end of the most
37:19
Speaker 1: recent episode that I guess you didn't see, where Claudia
37:23
Speaker 1: is trying to know She's like going off on her
37:25
Speaker 1: own to get away, and Lestat tracks her down and says,
37:29
Speaker 1: like you can't have your own life because I need
37:32
Speaker 1: you here to make Louis happy and like it. How
37:38
Speaker 1: how much of a monster listat is justifies the fact
37:43
Speaker 1: that they're going to attempt to murder him, and you
37:46
Speaker 1: know these things are all happening for a reason. Um.
37:50
Speaker 1: There was also a reveal about rashid Um at the
37:54
Speaker 1: end of this week's episode that was, um, he's louise
37:58
Speaker 1: Like personal assistant. Oh oh right, right, the one that
38:03
Speaker 1: he like also sucks on, yes, um, And it's I
38:09
Speaker 1: don't know where they're going with it. There's a lot,
38:11
Speaker 1: There's plenty of theories, and people who know more about
38:15
Speaker 1: the an Rice universe might have better ideas about it.
38:18
Speaker 1: But I just am so enthralled by this show. I'm
38:22
Speaker 1: so happy that you know, it was renewed for a
38:24
Speaker 1: second season before the first season even started, so we're
38:27
Speaker 1: getting more. There's also, um, the Mayfair Witches series that begins,
38:33
Speaker 1: I believe in January. So they are building out this
38:37
Speaker 1: immortal universe with all the different and Rice properties, and
38:41
Speaker 1: I'm just very excited to see where we go from here.
38:44
Speaker 1: And I have been reading with that Louis fan fiction.
38:48
Speaker 1: No surprises there, Um, will you be watching a Bobby
38:53
Speaker 1: kind of Volley fan fiction after consuming The Watcher on Netflix. No,
38:59
Speaker 1: but I did. I was, so, I've only watched like
39:03
Speaker 1: four or five episodes of The Watcher. I've been watching
39:05
Speaker 1: it with Ryan. Can I can I not watching more
39:09
Speaker 1: than four or five episodes? Um, but I did. I
39:14
Speaker 1: did ask Ryan, Um, because we both think Bobby kind
39:18
Speaker 1: of all it is really sexy. I asked Ryan if
39:20
Speaker 1: he would murder rose Burne if he got to suck
39:23
Speaker 1: off Bobby kind of all a and he said yes
39:25
Speaker 1: without hesitation. I said, but what if Spy two was
39:29
Speaker 1: already in pre production? And then he said no, because
39:32
Speaker 1: we couldn't. We couldn't keep Rose burn from being in
39:35
Speaker 1: Spy Too. No, we need Spy to. We need Spy To. Um.
39:39
Speaker 1: What else? What other impressions you have on like the
39:42
Speaker 1: series in gen I mean, it's so it's on to me,
39:45
Speaker 1: Like having finished it, I feel like it's so um
39:50
Speaker 1: not good. Um. Yeah, I don't know that I'm going
39:54
Speaker 1: to finish it. I don't know if I'm going to
39:56
Speaker 1: watch it outside of the context of watching it with
39:59
Speaker 1: Ryan and kind of like giggling through it. Yeah, it's
40:03
Speaker 1: I did read the New York Magazine article that it's
40:06
Speaker 1: based off of because I kind of wanted the real
40:09
Speaker 1: life context of it, and also I wanted to spoil
40:13
Speaker 1: myself and see how it was going to end. Um
40:16
Speaker 1: And what I found very frustrating is that the mystery
40:20
Speaker 1: is unsolved. Um so I do. I mean, we don't
40:24
Speaker 1: have to necessarily spoil it for the virgins, you don't
40:26
Speaker 1: have to get into specifics. But it is a limited series.
40:30
Speaker 1: Is there a definitive ending? Is the Watcher unveiled? No
40:37
Speaker 1: that I don't like. Sorry, Yeah, it is such a
40:41
Speaker 1: it makes you It makes the whole show feel like
40:44
Speaker 1: such a colossal waste of time because it's not even
40:48
Speaker 1: very well written. Like to me, Ryan Murphy saw White
40:52
Speaker 1: Lotus and was like, there is an American horror story
40:56
Speaker 1: version of this, and that's why he started to work
41:00
Speaker 1: on The Watcher. He probably also watched you know, The
41:03
Speaker 1: Undoing or you know, Fucking the Staircase or something like that, Like, yeah,
41:08
Speaker 1: it's it's there. There's a clear um context that that
41:12
Speaker 1: the show is sitting within there, there is a trend
41:14
Speaker 1: that it is that it is hopping on for sure. Yeah.
41:19
Speaker 1: So to me that the show is very watchable, like
41:23
Speaker 1: no pun int um and that, but that is because
41:27
Speaker 1: of I think the casting is amazing, Like Bobby kind
41:29
Speaker 1: of Vale, Margot Martindale, Jennifer Coolidge is really good. Mia
41:34
Speaker 1: Faroh when was the last time, you know, we got
41:37
Speaker 1: to see herself which also Nomadumezwenny was Hermione and Harry
41:43
Speaker 1: Potter and the Curse Child. Yes, and she is to
41:46
Speaker 1: me the best character in the undoing as well. Um.
41:50
Speaker 1: I what I like about the show is that I
41:54
Speaker 1: think it um is a really good depiction of uh,
41:57
Speaker 1: you know this modern you know, American horror, which is
42:03
Speaker 1: the horror of living outside your means and what that
42:07
Speaker 1: can lead to. Because you know, we see this family,
42:12
Speaker 1: you know, buying this house that they can't afford and
42:16
Speaker 1: then they're stuck there, I mean to be fair, that
42:20
Speaker 1: also literally is the plot of American Horror story season
42:23
Speaker 1: one Murder House, Like they're living in a haunted house
42:26
Speaker 1: so they can't afford to move out of. Um, you know,
42:30
Speaker 1: the casting is amazing. Um. I think casting me a
42:35
Speaker 1: pharaoh is genius because of the Rosemary's Baby of it all,
42:38
Speaker 1: because you know, this is essentially the plot of Rosemary's Baby.
42:44
Speaker 1: Um it is I've never seen it. Oh yeah, Rosemary's
42:48
Speaker 1: Baby is about you know, this woman who you know,
42:51
Speaker 1: moves into an apartment with her husband and they have
42:53
Speaker 1: all these creepy neighbors and their secret passages and like people.
42:57
Speaker 1: I mean, like that is like literally Satan Nick and
43:00
Speaker 1: like she's im like raped and like impregnated with the Antichrist.
43:04
Speaker 1: But it's like very obvious why she was cast because
43:08
Speaker 1: of all those parallels. And I think in the couple
43:12
Speaker 1: episodes that I've watched, I think she's criminally under used. Yes,
43:16
Speaker 1: and also like she deserves a show that's better written
43:19
Speaker 1: than this. I'm sorry, Like I know Ryan Murphy can
43:22
Speaker 1: kind of get whoever he wants, but like Mia Farrow
43:25
Speaker 1: is so she needs to do more things. And I
43:28
Speaker 1: don't know this was I don't understand why the their
43:32
Speaker 1: bed is in the middle of their bedroom. It was
43:35
Speaker 1: so confusing to me. Also, Nami Watts never wears the
43:39
Speaker 1: same thing twice. She has so many fucking chunky, you know,
43:43
Speaker 1: alpaca sweaters and like duster coats, and I mean, she
43:47
Speaker 1: looks great. Can you explain I want her entire wardrobe?
43:50
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me why girls why the girls
43:53
Speaker 1: love Naomi Watts? Like I don't really, I don't. I
43:56
Speaker 1: don't know any I've only seen her in King Kong
43:58
Speaker 1: and I think that's it. Uh. She is sort of
44:05
Speaker 1: she's blonde, she's blonde, she's she's like she's like in
44:09
Speaker 1: a cool kidman variant. She you know. I think they
44:14
Speaker 1: came up around similar times, and Naomi Watts has she's
44:18
Speaker 1: kind of one of the if you know, you know
44:21
Speaker 1: girls actually who Weekly talked about her recently because they
44:24
Speaker 1: were talking about the watch her and like they understand
44:27
Speaker 1: celebrity culture in a way that I never will. So
44:30
Speaker 1: I would definitely suggest like listening to their take on
44:33
Speaker 1: the Naomi Wats of it all. I think she's just
44:35
Speaker 1: a very good actress. She's a pretty white, blonde woman.
44:38
Speaker 1: She was in the Ring. It is kind of crazy
44:41
Speaker 1: that the Ring is the thing that she's the most
44:43
Speaker 1: famous for, like on a on a sort of mainstream
44:46
Speaker 1: mass appeal level. I've seen The Ring and I did
44:50
Speaker 1: not know she was in that. But that wasn't like
44:52
Speaker 1: in high school, so I'll forgive myself for that. I
44:55
Speaker 1: want to chew Bobby Kinnavali's eyebrows off his face in
44:59
Speaker 1: a sexual way. He is so that sounds hard I
45:04
Speaker 1: mean he and he's also an incredible actor. Yeah, he's
45:07
Speaker 1: a great actor. I saw him. He and Rose Byrne,
45:10
Speaker 1: who is his wife. They did a production of Media
45:13
Speaker 1: at BAM a couple of years ago where they played
45:16
Speaker 1: the main characters and it was so good and like
45:19
Speaker 1: they were so amazing on stage together. One of the
45:22
Speaker 1: things that they didn't understand. Okay, so the episode where
45:25
Speaker 1: the daughter like goes live on TikTok and and and
45:30
Speaker 1: you know, spins this conflict that's happening between her father
45:34
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend into like into her father being racist.
45:38
Speaker 1: Is she an influencer? Like why did why did it
45:42
Speaker 1: go viral? Why does his assistant come in and with
45:45
Speaker 1: the phone? Like is this your daughter? Like what you
45:48
Speaker 1: don't get? Though I don't she's not an influencer. I
45:51
Speaker 1: think it just went viral. Like I think she went
45:53
Speaker 1: viral as an army, which like nobody writes I've I've actually,
45:57
Speaker 1: I have yet to see a piction of someone going
46:01
Speaker 1: viral that I felt was like effective or like added
46:05
Speaker 1: to the story. Like I I'm trying, I mean maybe
46:07
Speaker 1: that I don't know, I'm trying to think of others,
46:09
Speaker 1: but like I just like it's It's just a lot
46:11
Speaker 1: of times when things are written like that, I'm like,
46:13
Speaker 1: this is something, this is written by someone who doesn't
46:15
Speaker 1: use social media, Like I just I don't get it. Um,
46:18
Speaker 1: But but I that on top of that, to your point,
46:21
Speaker 1: like that is like one of like many many inconsistencies
46:26
Speaker 1: in how the plot unfolds. And something that's amazing is that, um,
46:30
Speaker 1: the casting is great and everyone is a suspect. So
46:34
Speaker 1: that does create a very playful and fun viewing experience
46:38
Speaker 1: where you're trying to figure out who it is. Yes,
46:41
Speaker 1: every time a new character is introduced, I'm like, yep,
46:43
Speaker 1: they're in on it. She's in on it, he's in
46:45
Speaker 1: on it. Yes, And I think that's great. It's just, um,
46:49
Speaker 1: it's infuriating that there's there's no there's no reveal. I yeah,
46:55
Speaker 1: I was. I was reading that New York Magazine article like,
46:58
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so long. I can't wait
47:00
Speaker 1: of the end when they reveal who it is, and
47:02
Speaker 1: then there's no reveal. The show also fabricates like a
47:06
Speaker 1: large majority of the things that happened in the actual show,
47:10
Speaker 1: which is fine. I'm fine with that, but it must
47:12
Speaker 1: be said, Yeah, I mean based on the article that
47:15
Speaker 1: I read. Really, the only thing that happened was the letters.
47:18
Speaker 1: The letters, That's the entirety of what happened to them. Yeah,
47:22
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of Google Okay. So now I think
47:43
Speaker 1: it's kind of the part where to two roads diverge
47:46
Speaker 1: and we're maybe going to talk about some things that
47:48
Speaker 1: we've each been consuming on our own. Um, I've seen
47:52
Speaker 1: some theater recently that we just would like to to
47:57
Speaker 1: talk about briefly. I did mention that I'm pretty sure
48:01
Speaker 1: that I got COVID at Hadestown, which I saw a
48:04
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Um, I I thought Hadestown sucked
48:10
Speaker 1: so much, and it has been such a cultural phenomenon
48:14
Speaker 1: over the past couple of years. It's like one of
48:17
Speaker 1: those pieces of theater that has really crossed over into
48:20
Speaker 1: the mainstream. And like I understand why that is, because
48:24
Speaker 1: because it is kind of the show that tricks normal
48:27
Speaker 1: people into thinking that they're watching something really deep and
48:31
Speaker 1: it just isn't. Like I did not feel anything while
48:37
Speaker 1: watching it there. I did not feel a single emotion.
48:41
Speaker 1: And it's such a failure for anyone who doesn't know
48:46
Speaker 1: Hadestown is about, you know, the myth of Orpheus and
48:50
Speaker 1: eurityosy Um. But also it kind of isn't it you know,
48:55
Speaker 1: places the myth in this sort of like steam punk
48:59
Speaker 1: like nineteen twenties esque context. It's like post industrial um,
49:07
Speaker 1: and it almost like can't decide if it wants to
49:09
Speaker 1: be literally about the myth of Orpheus and Euridicy and
49:14
Speaker 1: you know, Haiti isn't Persephone and these mythological characters, or
49:17
Speaker 1: if it wants to be this like you know, like
49:21
Speaker 1: work shoppy ass like tumbler musical. It's so tumbler. All
49:26
Speaker 1: the music was very forgettable. I just like really did
49:30
Speaker 1: not enjoy it. UM do not recommend UM. And then
49:35
Speaker 1: last week I saw Weathering Heights at St. Anne's Warehouse UM,
49:41
Speaker 1: which had kind of similar vibes, like very deconstructed UM.
49:47
Speaker 1: So it's like, what are you saying. It's like Vaudavillian,
49:50
Speaker 1: Like you can see the pieces of the theater and
49:53
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's like black box theater. It's
49:56
Speaker 1: like yeah, like you know, there's like a door that's
49:59
Speaker 1: rolled on stage, and you know there's like puppets and um.
50:03
Speaker 1: All of the chorus members play multiple characters or like
50:08
Speaker 1: the same actor plays a father and a son at
50:11
Speaker 1: different points in their lives. Um The main issue with
50:15
Speaker 1: it is that it fails that the basic responsibility of
50:18
Speaker 1: what a musical is supposed to do. In musicals, characters
50:22
Speaker 1: sing because they feel an emotion so deeply that they
50:25
Speaker 1: can no longer say it, they have to sing it,
50:28
Speaker 1: and this show does not do that. M Rice, who
50:33
Speaker 1: adapted Weathering Heights into this production and directed it, was
50:37
Speaker 1: clearly very passionate about maintaining Bronte's words. But I think
50:43
Speaker 1: it's too faithful of an adaptation because the characters speak
50:51
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue lifted directly from the novel, but they
50:54
Speaker 1: speak them and then a scene later they sing a
50:58
Speaker 1: song that has nothing to you with what they were
51:00
Speaker 1: just talking about, Like when Kathy says, I am Heathcliff.
51:06
Speaker 1: This like iconic line of dialogue. That is one of
51:11
Speaker 1: the best ways in literature anyone has ever written. You know,
51:15
Speaker 1: the idea of a loving someone so much that you
51:18
Speaker 1: feel like you are them. It is so integral to
51:21
Speaker 1: your character. That should have been a song I Am
51:24
Speaker 1: Heathcliff should have been sung, and instead she says it,
51:28
Speaker 1: and then a scene later she picks up a microphone
51:31
Speaker 1: like she's in Spring Awakening and sings a rock song
51:34
Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with anything she's been saying
51:36
Speaker 1: and just feels like someone wrote a play, and then
51:38
Speaker 1: at the end they were like, oh, let's put music
51:40
Speaker 1: in it. That's such a missed opportunity, because like with
51:43
Speaker 1: with both Wuthering Heights and with Um you know Orpheus
51:47
Speaker 1: and your writtasy, like these are too, those are these
51:51
Speaker 1: are tragic stories, and with Rvous and your writticcy, there's
51:57
Speaker 1: so much room to play with nailing down and describing
52:02
Speaker 1: what that tragedy feels like. And similarly with Wuthering Heights,
52:05
Speaker 1: it's like, even though you know, Bronte has so much
52:08
Speaker 1: on the page that we can read like that is
52:10
Speaker 1: a moment where it's like it's a song and damn,
52:13
Speaker 1: that's that's really disappointing. Yeah, and it just made me
52:16
Speaker 1: wish it had been a Kate Bush jukebox musical. I
52:20
Speaker 1: don't know why it wasn't Um. Also, it did remind
52:25
Speaker 1: me a lot of the sort of deconstructed nous and
52:29
Speaker 1: like workshopp nous of. It reminded me a lot of
52:31
Speaker 1: the ocean at the end of the Lane, which is
52:34
Speaker 1: a play based on a novel by Neil Gaiman that
52:37
Speaker 1: has sort of a similar staging and also uses music,
52:41
Speaker 1: but uses music, you know in scene changes, like also
52:44
Speaker 1: kind of in the way that Harry Potter and the
52:46
Speaker 1: Chris Child does you Know image And he wrote this
52:50
Speaker 1: entire score for that show and it uses music without
52:54
Speaker 1: calling itself a musical. And I think this show would
52:57
Speaker 1: have been much better if it had done that. And
53:00
Speaker 1: I still really like the staging. Um. The second act
53:03
Speaker 1: was much better than the first act. The first the
53:05
Speaker 1: show is three hours, and the first act felt like
53:08
Speaker 1: it was three hours long because the first act ends
53:11
Speaker 1: with Cathy dying, and it's like, okay, well, if you
53:13
Speaker 1: decide that that's how the first act ends, it's up
53:16
Speaker 1: to you to edit things out so that you're not
53:20
Speaker 1: just like going through the story up until that point
53:25
Speaker 1: and it feeling like a hundred years long. But I
53:29
Speaker 1: still enjoyed myself. I had a good time. It was
53:30
Speaker 1: nice to be at the THEATA. I love I love
53:33
Speaker 1: a term you've coined, which is work shoppy. That is
53:37
Speaker 1: such a good way to describe a lot of things,
53:40
Speaker 1: especially on the stage. Like I would much prefer something
53:44
Speaker 1: that feels work shoppy, unfinished or imperfect, like doesn't quite
53:49
Speaker 1: say what it wants to say, but at least it
53:52
Speaker 1: tries over something that you know, tried too hard to
53:56
Speaker 1: be perfect and polished and ultimately didn't try anything. You know,
54:00
Speaker 1: but like this sounds like it wasn't very successful and
54:03
Speaker 1: so they made a lot of choices. They're just very
54:09
Speaker 1: A lot of them were wrong. A lot of them
54:12
Speaker 1: were wrong. What have you been engaging in that I
54:16
Speaker 1: have not been privy too well. I am watching this
54:19
Speaker 1: current season of Great British Baking Show and I don't
54:22
Speaker 1: have much to report on because it's not a short,
54:24
Speaker 1: it's not a show really to report on. UM, but
54:28
Speaker 1: they had this for the very first time, they had
54:31
Speaker 1: Mexico Week, which really was incredible. It exceeded all of
54:38
Speaker 1: my expectations and was such an exceptional episode of like
54:44
Speaker 1: reality TV. And you know, anyone that's on Twitter saw
54:47
Speaker 1: the clips that were you know, out there, UM this
54:50
Speaker 1: amazing contestant calling guacamole glocky molo. I felt like joy filled,
54:59
Speaker 1: filling to the brim of my heart watching a bunch
55:03
Speaker 1: of white people and non Latin people attempt to understand
55:10
Speaker 1: Mexican cuisine. Um. Cultural appropriation is good again, That's what
55:14
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say. We we as a society need
55:18
Speaker 1: to create more things wherein white people are struggling to
55:23
Speaker 1: master the thing the things that don't belong to them, right,
55:28
Speaker 1: this is one of those I think there I don't.
55:30
Speaker 1: I didn't really see any very serious discourse about it,
55:32
Speaker 1: but I know that there are people out there that
55:34
Speaker 1: are like, canceled to Mexico Week, How dare You a
55:37
Speaker 1: great British baking show? And I was like, actually, like
55:40
Speaker 1: the show was very aware of what it was doing
55:43
Speaker 1: and flexed on what it's good at, which is kind
55:46
Speaker 1: of portraying lovable and income poops. Like like really like
55:50
Speaker 1: that that's, at the end of the day, what it was.
55:52
Speaker 1: And I really love they really and income poop is
55:57
Speaker 1: the is the word. Um. I will say just on
56:00
Speaker 1: a hold that the contestants where we're at now, I
56:05
Speaker 1: really hope that Maxi is the winner and that she
56:07
Speaker 1: beats out Yanush, who is kind of the judge's favorite
56:12
Speaker 1: and the one that's most technically perfect. There's always one
56:14
Speaker 1: guy that's like a robotically technically a perfect baker, and
56:19
Speaker 1: it's so soulless and yet he wins every challenge and
56:21
Speaker 1: I don't want it to be him. But there's this
56:23
Speaker 1: man on the show that is also going to be
56:26
Speaker 1: in the top three in my opinion, name Sandro. You've
56:30
Speaker 1: seen pictures of Sandra, haven't you? I have not? Oh
56:33
Speaker 1: my god, wait, I actually we need the live react
56:36
Speaker 1: right now of Rose seeing images of Sandra from Great British.
56:41
Speaker 1: And to be clear, I will watch the show over
56:44
Speaker 1: the past couple of years, I've watched every season. I
56:46
Speaker 1: just prefer to watch it all at once and and
56:49
Speaker 1: not week to week. Um. Oh wow, he is so
56:54
Speaker 1: fucking fine. And he's also huge. Oh my god, he's
56:58
Speaker 1: a huge man, and he's an exquisite sexy baker. His
57:03
Speaker 1: hand his hands look very large, so large. Anyways, we're
57:07
Speaker 1: rooting for you, Sandrow. Um okay, what else have I
57:11
Speaker 1: paid consuming? Oh oh okay, this is good, A good
57:14
Speaker 1: call back to our Stephen King episode. I finally watched
57:17
Speaker 1: Carrie the original. Yes, the non Chloe Grace Mourettes carry,
57:23
Speaker 1: the only carry, the only carry I recognize. Yes. Um,
57:27
Speaker 1: I want to say, you know, on top of our
57:28
Speaker 1: conversation in that episode that we failed to talk about
57:32
Speaker 1: how John Travolta is in this movie what I had,
57:36
Speaker 1: and it's very sexy. Young John Travolta was really hot.
57:41
Speaker 1: And also don't don't cancel me, but John Travolta since
57:45
Speaker 1: he shaved his head is hot again. Oh my god, Rose,
57:50
Speaker 1: that's so bad. He is literally it is what it is.
57:53
Speaker 1: He is one of the most powerful people in the
57:56
Speaker 1: Scientology church. Like he has ascended to a tear of Scientology.
58:00
Speaker 1: He has a title I can't remember what, but he
58:04
Speaker 1: got the funk up. He has a title I can't
58:06
Speaker 1: remember the titleist, but the clearance that he has in
58:09
Speaker 1: the yeah yeah, dick sucker in chief. Um, he has
58:16
Speaker 1: clearance in Scientology that is so powerful that he is
58:20
Speaker 1: allowed to kill, Like he can kill someone and Scientology
58:25
Speaker 1: allows it as a like within the architecture of their
58:30
Speaker 1: belief systems. Well, maybe I need to think more about
58:33
Speaker 1: George Um which also like listen watching Carry, I was like, wait,
58:39
Speaker 1: was John Travolta's like last like like meaningful appearance in
58:44
Speaker 1: Hollywood Hairspray. I I literally like we could pull up
58:50
Speaker 1: the IMDb that is like it is actually incredible that
58:56
Speaker 1: his his his final most like known performance in the
59:02
Speaker 1: Eons of a career that someone as legendary as John
59:04
Speaker 1: Tribolda has had was dressing up as it was hairspray,
59:11
Speaker 1: and then it was adult dosime and oh right, adult desime.
59:14
Speaker 1: He has contributed so much, he is he is a king.
59:21
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true. Um. But anyways, on the carry
59:25
Speaker 1: of it all, the thing that I just wanted to
59:26
Speaker 1: say on top of our conversation is that it's so deranged,
59:31
Speaker 1: like the way the movie is directed, but not just
59:35
Speaker 1: like in a horrific way, Like the way the movie
59:39
Speaker 1: is directed is so bizarre, and every single fever dream yes,
59:46
Speaker 1: And and the way I would describe it is like
59:48
Speaker 1: every single character feels like they are a woman on
59:53
Speaker 1: the verge of a nervous breakdown, right, Like every single
59:56
Speaker 1: character is at the absolute max some them of what
1:00:01
Speaker 1: they can handle at the beginning of every scene, and
1:00:04
Speaker 1: one single stimuli puts them over the edge. Like everyone
1:00:08
Speaker 1: in this movie, not just Carry, not just her mom.
1:00:12
Speaker 1: Everyone is hysterical, like in hysterics. And I thought that
1:00:17
Speaker 1: that was such a funny lens on um the story
1:00:22
Speaker 1: as a whole. I think there's something kind of Stephen
1:00:23
Speaker 1: Kingy about that, Like I think that his characters are really, um,
1:00:28
Speaker 1: extremely melodramatic. I don't even know if melodrama is the word.
1:00:32
Speaker 1: It's obviously um camp in a lot of ways in
1:00:35
Speaker 1: its purest form, but like I was so engaged from
1:00:39
Speaker 1: the jump by how wild and weird this movie is, like, Um,
1:00:45
Speaker 1: I don't know that I agree that Carry is camp.
1:00:48
Speaker 1: Maybe Piper Laurie a little bit. No, it's definitely. I
1:00:52
Speaker 1: think if you rewatch it, I mean, like fucking I
1:00:55
Speaker 1: have watched it, watched it many times, you're gonna tell
1:00:59
Speaker 1: me that Carries Mom in her nightgown holding the knife
1:01:03
Speaker 1: up and smiling like like crazy is like not to
1:01:08
Speaker 1: some extent like camp, like I also honestly even in
1:01:11
Speaker 1: the beginning, like um, Sissy SpaceX, like first like seven
1:01:15
Speaker 1: minutes of dialogue, it's just like her wailing, like she
1:01:18
Speaker 1: has no line. She goes like something something truly horrifying
1:01:23
Speaker 1: that's happening to her and she thinks she's dying, right,
1:01:26
Speaker 1: but like truly post verbal, like no real words like I.
1:01:31
Speaker 1: And that's like kind of what I'm alluding to, Like
1:01:33
Speaker 1: there's there. It's funny how emphatic every character was directed
1:01:38
Speaker 1: to be and how I don't know I thought. I
1:01:41
Speaker 1: just thought that that's something that made the movie so
1:01:43
Speaker 1: much weirder and more interesting. Um to watch, and I
1:01:47
Speaker 1: really appreciated it visually as well. Um, so it's a
1:01:50
Speaker 1: beautiful film, great movie to re visit. You saw Halloween Ends.
1:01:55
Speaker 1: I did. I did watch Halloween Ends on Peacock. I
1:01:59
Speaker 1: very fran tried watching Halloween Kills. Halloween Kills is disgusting, horrible.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: I started. I watched I should you not at least
1:02:08
Speaker 1: twenty minutes of it, but before realizing that there was
1:02:11
Speaker 1: a movie that came before this movie that I did
1:02:14
Speaker 1: not watch. Um, yeah, it's it seemed really bad and boring.
1:02:18
Speaker 1: But um, Kyle Richard's love, Oh Kyle was so good
1:02:23
Speaker 1: in Halloween Kills. She was the best part of the movie.
1:02:26
Speaker 1: Very underused in Halloween Ends. You know, a lot of
1:02:30
Speaker 1: people really don't seem to like it. I think it's
1:02:33
Speaker 1: it's a very quiet way to end this forty five
1:02:37
Speaker 1: year franchise and story. But I thought it did some
1:02:41
Speaker 1: interesting things with the way it carried on the idea
1:02:49
Speaker 1: of Michael Myers as this sort of spiritual evil that
1:02:57
Speaker 1: has haunted Laurie Strode her entire life, and in Halloween Ends,
1:03:01
Speaker 1: there is a character who sort of takes up Michael's legacy,
1:03:06
Speaker 1: and you see how a normal person, through a series
1:03:11
Speaker 1: of really tragic circumstances, could become a killer. Um, which
1:03:17
Speaker 1: I thought was interesting and I liked that it is
1:03:20
Speaker 1: a definitive ending to Laurie's story to Michael Myers. And
1:03:24
Speaker 1: it's certainly not a perfect film, and I'm glad I
1:03:27
Speaker 1: watched it on Peacock rather than seeing it in theaters. Um,
1:03:31
Speaker 1: because it's it's a movie that you know, you look
1:03:34
Speaker 1: at your phone during is what you're saying, Oh, totally
1:03:38
Speaker 1: totally spoiler alert. How did they? How did die? Jamie?
1:03:42
Speaker 1: The Curtis kills him, and then um, to make sure
1:03:46
Speaker 1: that he is dead once and for all, they string
1:03:50
Speaker 1: him up on a car, and the whole town sort
1:03:52
Speaker 1: of like gathers and they parade through the streets and
1:03:55
Speaker 1: they take him to like the Junkyard and put him
1:03:59
Speaker 1: through an industrial grinder while everyone watches. That's great, yeah, um,
1:04:09
Speaker 1: And the whole movie is sort of about how, you know,
1:04:12
Speaker 1: you're understanding how the town hates Laurie Strode because this
1:04:16
Speaker 1: very personal, you know, battle she's having with Michael Myers
1:04:20
Speaker 1: has really impacted all of them, and so it is
1:04:23
Speaker 1: very cathartic that they all get to watch him die.
1:04:28
Speaker 1: Speaking of movies, I don't want to talk about it
1:04:30
Speaker 1: this week because I really want to wait to have
1:04:32
Speaker 1: this conversation until you've seen it. But I saw My
1:04:35
Speaker 1: Policeman in theaters and really, actually surprisingly liked it, and
1:04:42
Speaker 1: so we will talk about it. I want you to
1:04:44
Speaker 1: see it. It also doesn't come out on Amazon, I
1:04:48
Speaker 1: think until this Friday, So Virgins, if you want to
1:04:52
Speaker 1: watch it and here our takes, watch it and we'll
1:04:55
Speaker 1: talk about it next week. I'm I'm probably gonna like
1:04:59
Speaker 1: it too. I'm a little bit of a higher I
1:05:02
Speaker 1: think you will. And it has problems, that has flaws,
1:05:05
Speaker 1: but I really liked it despite the splaws. I think
1:05:08
Speaker 1: it's a lovely film that is very well acted and
1:05:11
Speaker 1: well made. Damn Okay, we'll talk about it next week.
1:05:21
Speaker 1: We'll be back with an episode all about Indie Slee's
1:05:25
Speaker 1: so um you know. Dig into your tumbler archives, break
1:05:29
Speaker 1: out your American apparel v neck check to see which
1:05:33
Speaker 1: book items are from the Urban outfit our skift table.
1:05:37
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you can connect with us on Instagram
1:05:40
Speaker 1: at like a Virgin, Um, did we miss anything you
1:05:44
Speaker 1: wanted us to talk about this week? Are you happy
1:05:47
Speaker 1: Halloween's over? You're looking forward to the holidays? Let us know,
1:05:51
Speaker 1: and please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It
1:05:53
Speaker 1: helps us so much. I'm your co host, Rose Damn
1:05:56
Speaker 1: You. You You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You,
1:06:00
Speaker 1: and I'm friend. You can find me at friends, squish co,
1:06:02
Speaker 1: anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you
1:06:06
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, and please leave us a rating on
1:06:09
Speaker 1: Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is
1:06:12
Speaker 1: an I Heart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter,
1:06:16
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and
1:06:20
Speaker 1: Nikki Tour Until next week. Choose, as Lydia Tar would
1:06:24
Speaker 1: say in Berlin, my