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Who Killed Superman? · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show, the world's most trusted conspiracy
0:16
Speaker 1: dairy podcast, with your hosts Adam Todd Brown and Olivia Heidar.
0:32
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm your host,
0:38
Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me is co host this week. Oo,
0:41
Speaker 2: my favorite co host of all no co host, but
0:44
Speaker 2: I do have a guest in the room of Tiff
0:47
Speaker 2: Myers is here.
0:48
Speaker 3: It's up. It's gonna be sad.
0:50
Speaker 4: That's good, said, Yeah, this is gonna be a bummer.
0:56
Speaker 2: You all know a Tiff. He's been on this show
0:58
Speaker 2: a bunch of times. You've heard him on you don't
1:00
Speaker 2: even like this show on unpopular opinion all over the
1:04
Speaker 2: place on this network. And the last couple episodes we
1:08
Speaker 2: were delving back into the jfk assassination, and so I thought, hey,
1:13
Speaker 2: let's keep it in your parents' time and dive into
1:17
Speaker 2: another story from relatively that time, a few years earlier, sure,
1:22
Speaker 2: the death of George Reeves, or, as the title of
1:26
Speaker 2: the episode says, who killed Superman. This is fun because
1:30
Speaker 2: when I came up with the idea for this, I
1:32
Speaker 2: was like, you know, who'd be perfect for this a
1:35
Speaker 2: Tiff because he's a big comic book guy. So I
1:38
Speaker 2: reached out and was like, you want to do an
1:40
Speaker 2: episode about the death of George Reeves? And you were like, sure,
1:43
Speaker 2: who's George Reeves?
1:45
Speaker 5: And I think I said who the fuck is? I
1:48
Speaker 5: felt bad for storing it. I was like, why didn't
1:50
Speaker 5: come off that aggressive to be asked on a podcast.
1:53
Speaker 3: I felt so bad. I was like, why did I
1:55
Speaker 3: say this?
1:55
Speaker 2: Who the fuck is George Reason?
1:56
Speaker 3: Who are you? Yes? Yeah? Yeah he was not Jack Superman.
2:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like he was like dad Bod Superman.
2:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:08
Speaker 2: He was like the first person to play Superman on TV.
2:12
Speaker 3: And who like what it was? Like, silly Superman.
2:15
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, yeah, it was before Superman really
2:19
Speaker 2: uh got his footing in the entertainment world. There was
2:22
Speaker 2: someone else who played Superman in like movies before this,
2:26
Speaker 2: but George Reeves like really popularized the role. Sure, And
2:31
Speaker 2: I mean there were obviously the comic books before.
2:33
Speaker 3: That, oh of course.
2:34
Speaker 5: And it's like, but the com books, I mean back then,
2:36
Speaker 5: it's like follow adheres to like the comics code more
2:40
Speaker 5: strictly because they're worried that it can get like too dark.
2:43
Speaker 5: That's why like a lot of those earlier issues A
2:46
Speaker 5: Superman and Batman were just like fucking stupid and silly,
2:49
Speaker 5: where it's like, oh my god, Batman's trapped in a
2:51
Speaker 5: cake because like it's just they could have been like
2:55
Speaker 5: as dark as some of like the other more indie
2:58
Speaker 5: comics at the time were.
2:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it turns out the cake was income inequality.
3:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know which.
3:06
Speaker 2: I don't know why Batman would be trapped in that.
3:08
Speaker 2: He is, no, that is because of that not a
3:12
Speaker 2: problem that affects that dude.
3:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah.
3:16
Speaker 2: George Reeves he was an actor, best known for playing
3:19
Speaker 2: the role of Superman in the TV series Adventures of
3:22
Speaker 2: Superman from nineteen fifty two to nineteen fifty eight. He
3:26
Speaker 2: died at the age of forty five, and his death
3:28
Speaker 2: was ruled a suicide. But as you can imagine from
3:31
Speaker 2: the fact that we're covering it here today, there are
3:34
Speaker 2: lots of questions surrounding his death. A whole lot of
3:38
Speaker 2: people believe he was murdered, and they believe that for
3:42
Speaker 2: pretty good reason. I would say, like before before we
3:45
Speaker 2: get into the details, I'm just gonna say right now,
3:48
Speaker 2: I think George Reeves was murdered.
3:50
Speaker 3: He was definitely murdered.
3:51
Speaker 5: Like everything was just as shady and lazily like handed
3:57
Speaker 5: to the cops as possible.
3:58
Speaker 2: Yes, And before we get into that, before we dive
4:01
Speaker 2: into the murder, we should talk about George Reeves a
4:04
Speaker 2: little bit, just to you know, humanize him, and also
4:07
Speaker 2: because no one listening to this knows anything about George Reeves,
4:10
Speaker 2: probably unless you've seen the two thousand and six film
4:14
Speaker 2: Hollywoodlands starring Ben Affleck.
4:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. Yeah, because if you're one of two
4:19
Speaker 3: people that have God bless you.
4:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those movies that I feel like
4:24
Speaker 2: I've seen and I can't remember anything about it, which
4:27
Speaker 2: doesn't speak well for that movie.
4:29
Speaker 3: It looked depressing.
4:30
Speaker 5: It looked really the trailer was like the most depressing,
4:32
Speaker 5: but it looked Yeah, I couldn't.
4:34
Speaker 2: This guy seemed depressing.
4:36
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, wildly so, especially for the time. I feel
4:39
Speaker 5: like you never hear about depression from like major people
4:43
Speaker 5: from that era.
4:44
Speaker 3: They were just boozing.
4:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. His film career began in nineteen thirty nine, when
4:49
Speaker 2: he was cast as one of Scarlett O'Hara's suitors in
4:52
Speaker 2: Gone with the Wind. Ever heard of it? Everybody? It
4:56
Speaker 2: was a minor role, but also he's in the opening scene,
5:00
Speaker 2: so there's that. Oh, not that I remember it. My
5:03
Speaker 2: mom fucking loved Gone with the Wind, and I watched
5:05
Speaker 2: it with her once and was like, come on, Mom.
5:08
Speaker 3: I don't think i've ever seen it, or if I
5:10
Speaker 3: saw it, I just blocked out of memory.
5:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know about you, but I'm just not
5:15
Speaker 2: a fan of movies from this time. I feel like
5:19
Speaker 2: movies are a thing that we as a society have
5:22
Speaker 2: mostly just gotten better at over the years, and like,
5:26
Speaker 2: why do I want to go back and watch shit
5:27
Speaker 2: from when we weren't good at it?
5:29
Speaker 5: Yeah, or like when there were already black people. If
5:34
Speaker 5: there's an option for black face.
5:35
Speaker 3: At that era, then I'm not going to watch it.
5:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Yeah, like a lot of the like Citizen
5:42
Speaker 2: Kane is the one that comes up the most. I
5:44
Speaker 2: feel like that has become a really polarizing film where
5:48
Speaker 2: half of society is like, such an artistic achievement and
5:52
Speaker 2: the other half is like, cool, they did dolly shots,
5:55
Speaker 2: big fucking deal, thank.
5:56
Speaker 3: You, thank you.
5:57
Speaker 5: It's like, oh my god, look how he pans in,
6:00
Speaker 5: look at the zoom into this window, and then they
6:02
Speaker 5: come out the other It's like, Okay, I don't give
6:04
Speaker 5: a fuck.
6:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, the ending is still fucking stupid.
6:06
Speaker 3: I think don't even remember that.
6:08
Speaker 2: Oh Rosebud was his childhood sled or some shit white nonsense.
6:13
Speaker 5: It falls under the category of white nonsense, it sure does.
6:18
Speaker 3: Sorry, if I've lost.
6:19
Speaker 5: Most of your listeners and or viewers, I don't know
6:22
Speaker 5: if this is video to help out now.
6:25
Speaker 2: So, like a whole lot of other entertainers of his day,
6:29
Speaker 2: George Reeves was drafted in nineteen forty three and served
6:33
Speaker 2: until the end of World War Two, which kind of
6:35
Speaker 2: derailed his career a little bit. But also it seems
6:37
Speaker 2: like he wanted to go to war.
6:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, he signed up, but it's also like he didn't
6:43
Speaker 3: really go to war. Let's just be real.
6:45
Speaker 2: He made movies and plays for the military.
6:49
Speaker 5: He was Captain America, Captain America one. He just had
6:53
Speaker 5: him dancing with showgirls to like it, entertain the troops.
6:56
Speaker 5: Like it wasn't it wasn't really war.
6:58
Speaker 2: I don't know.
6:59
Speaker 3: Take a PTSD.
7:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, when I read that part at first, I
7:02
Speaker 2: was like, oh shit, he had to fight in World
7:04
Speaker 2: War two, and it's like, not exactly. Yeah, he just
7:08
Speaker 2: had to live somewhere else and keep doing what he
7:10
Speaker 2: did during World War.
7:12
Speaker 3: Teah with like free housing and probably still got paid. Maybe.
7:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of my favorite conspiracy theories that we've never
7:19
Speaker 2: dove into on an episode, but we should is the
7:22
Speaker 2: one that claims Ted Williams when he got drafted, came
7:26
Speaker 2: back and brought amphetamines to baseball. Like that's how because
7:31
Speaker 2: baseball had a big, big, big amphetamine problem for a
7:34
Speaker 2: long time that they I think kind of swept under
7:37
Speaker 2: the rug by way of the steroid scandal. Sure, like
7:42
Speaker 2: everyone's attention is on that now. It's like Barry Bond
7:46
Speaker 2: shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. It's like, yeah,
7:48
Speaker 2: Roger Marris probably shouldn't either, because all your granddad's heroes
7:52
Speaker 2: were hopped up on amphetamines.
7:54
Speaker 3: Yeah. I hate Baseball Hall of Fame where they're just
7:57
Speaker 3: so holier than now.
7:58
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah. And here's the thing. I dreamed of
8:04
Speaker 2: going to the Baseball Hall of Fame my whole life,
8:07
Speaker 2: and when I moved to California, I was living in
8:10
Speaker 2: New York at the time, and we were like, fuck it,
8:13
Speaker 2: before we leave New York, let's drive up to Cooperstown
8:16
Speaker 2: and hit the Baseball Hall of Fame and the minute
8:18
Speaker 2: we parked, I was like, this is a mistake. This
8:21
Speaker 2: is gonna be really really boring, and it is. It's
8:25
Speaker 2: it's like going to the baseball library.
8:28
Speaker 3: It's baseball, this sport. It is pretty fucking boring. Yeah, yeah,
8:32
Speaker 3: it's pretty pretty boring. And they can imagine the museum entertaining.
8:36
Speaker 2: And they do have a like exhibit for Barry Bonds,
8:39
Speaker 2: but it's like very reluctant, Like you can tell they
8:42
Speaker 2: didn't want to have that there. It's like, get off
8:45
Speaker 2: your fucking high horse, you nerds.
8:47
Speaker 3: They're the worst.
8:48
Speaker 2: So he returns home from the war, and that coincided
8:53
Speaker 2: with a point in time when movie studios were kind
8:57
Speaker 2: of slowing down or all together stop their production schedules,
9:02
Speaker 2: and so more and more time starts passing between George
9:05
Speaker 2: Reeves getting these acting jobs. At one point it got
9:09
Speaker 2: so bad he took a second job digging cesspools. And
9:12
Speaker 2: it's like, what, it couldn't have been that bad.
9:15
Speaker 3: You know, what is a cesspool?
9:17
Speaker 2: You know? I read I looked it up and I'm
9:19
Speaker 2: still not quite sure. It seems like, you know, a
9:22
Speaker 2: thing where human waste goes.
9:24
Speaker 3: But that's okay.
9:25
Speaker 2: I don't know how they work.
9:27
Speaker 3: I don't know, people had to dig that up or
9:29
Speaker 3: make it.
9:29
Speaker 5: I just thought it was a thing that existed, like
9:31
Speaker 5: next to like quicksand like, I just thought it exists.
9:34
Speaker 3: In a while.
9:35
Speaker 2: Maybe he invented them. I don't know.
9:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can't imagine your job being that bad or
9:41
Speaker 5: kid finding work where you're like, let's go fucking dig
9:43
Speaker 5: some shitholes to make money.
9:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get the sense maybe this guy was kind
9:47
Speaker 2: of bad with money, just a dick.
9:49
Speaker 3: I don't know, because they all were factory.
9:52
Speaker 2: They also talk about how he was making like four
9:55
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a week and they're like, but that was
9:58
Speaker 2: only during the weeks he was filmed Superman, which is
10:01
Speaker 2: only like eight weeks out of the year, and it's
10:03
Speaker 2: like that sounds bad. But also like thirty two grand
10:07
Speaker 2: a year back then.
10:08
Speaker 3: It was five, it was five a week.
10:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so in today's money, like adjusted for inflation,
10:15
Speaker 2: he was making like four hundred grand a year.
10:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's blowing it on who knows what?
10:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the fuck's he doing with his money?
10:22
Speaker 3: He did have a listening to records, Yeah, smoking his
10:27
Speaker 3: pipe by.
10:29
Speaker 2: Black and White TVs, putting seventy eight's on the old
10:32
Speaker 2: Victrola at night, eating women who won't date him, stuff
10:37
Speaker 2: like that, you know, fifty shit, having his wife hospitalized
10:41
Speaker 2: for arguing with him.
10:42
Speaker 3: You know, just these dudes did in.
10:43
Speaker 2: The fifties man shit seats, Yeah, exactly, pushing back against
10:50
Speaker 2: civil rights, all the stuff our parents did, well maybe
10:55
Speaker 2: not all of our parents.
10:57
Speaker 3: I hope not see a fucking trader.
11:00
Speaker 2: So then he gets Superman, he gets the role of Superman,
11:04
Speaker 2: and one would assume, oh, well, he's got to be
11:06
Speaker 2: psyched by that, Like that, dude, that's a career turn
11:10
Speaker 2: for the for the positive. But no, not really, no,
11:14
Speaker 2: just but.
11:15
Speaker 3: Just a sad, fucking guy.
11:16
Speaker 5: But also, like I want to say, up until maybe
11:20
Speaker 5: the last like twenty years or so, of the tides
11:22
Speaker 5: really turned where people were actually happy to do TV,
11:26
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like, because for a long
11:27
Speaker 5: time it was like a fucking people are like, Nope,
11:29
Speaker 5: you're a fucking TV actor.
11:30
Speaker 3: You're gonna stick with that shit.
11:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, And for a long time, yeah, you're right, like
11:34
Speaker 2: Hollywood actors, like movie actors, were really reluctant to cross
11:38
Speaker 2: back over to TV. And you're right, that did seem
11:40
Speaker 2: like it changed sometime in the two thousands.
11:43
Speaker 5: Super like, because I remember, uh god, just think we
11:46
Speaker 5: sound like a dick. Remember there was an episode about
11:48
Speaker 5: Entourage about that he was. He was just like, I
11:52
Speaker 5: can't go to TV. I'm a movie actor.
11:55
Speaker 2: And I think like the age of like prestige television
11:59
Speaker 2: changed that because like once like cable networks started figuring
12:03
Speaker 2: out like oh hey, we can put out good shows too,
12:06
Speaker 2: and we can put out stuff to networks like the
12:08
Speaker 2: big networks won't put out. I think that's when it
12:11
Speaker 2: started changing for sure.
12:13
Speaker 5: So I could imagine in the fifties, when like TV
12:16
Speaker 5: started becoming a thing that he's going to be like,
12:18
Speaker 5: He's like, ah, fuck, I guess this is like like
12:20
Speaker 5: porn for him, you know.
12:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, this would be a little bit like asking a
12:24
Speaker 2: Hollywood actor to do a podcast in like twenty ten
12:30
Speaker 2: gonna be like the fucking podcast you crazy, And now
12:33
Speaker 2: everyone has a fucking podcast.
12:35
Speaker 3: It's a way better example than my porn example. You're
12:37
Speaker 3: completely right examples Why am I so dumb?
12:46
Speaker 2: He was offered the role of Superman in June nineteen
12:50
Speaker 2: fifty one, took it very reluctantly because television was also
12:54
Speaker 2: a very new thing. Yeah, and people were like, oh,
12:57
Speaker 2: why do I have to look at moving pictures in
12:59
Speaker 2: my home? You see, I can go to the theater.
13:04
Speaker 2: And they just like viewed movies as the superior art form.
13:07
Speaker 2: But he was like, fucking, I'm broke, I'll do Superman.
13:10
Speaker 5: I guess again, it's either digging shitholes or being Superman.
13:16
Speaker 5: And he's like, fuck, I guess I'll be Superman. This
13:19
Speaker 5: guy's not a good guy.
13:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't make the best career choices. I don't think.
13:24
Speaker 2: I mean, taking Superman was arguably a good choice for him,
13:29
Speaker 2: Like it definitely made him a huge star for a while.
13:32
Speaker 3: For sure, and he just was like, well, I guess
13:34
Speaker 3: I'm Superman.
13:36
Speaker 2: And so yeah, the show finally airs in nineteen fifty two,
13:39
Speaker 2: and he was very surprised to find that he had
13:44
Speaker 2: become a national celebrity.
13:46
Speaker 3: Just an idiot.
13:47
Speaker 2: Again. TV was new, so he assumed no one was
13:51
Speaker 2: gonna watch it. So that's why he was so surprised
13:54
Speaker 2: by that.
13:54
Speaker 5: It never even thought like, this combook is one of
13:57
Speaker 5: the biggest combooks in the world, to people buying it
14:00
Speaker 5: a week or a month or whatever.
14:02
Speaker 3: I don't know why he wouldn't correlate those two.
14:04
Speaker 2: And Also, he's a Hollywood actor at the time, so
14:07
Speaker 2: you know, he was surrounded by the people who probably
14:11
Speaker 2: took to television first. Yeah, because shit like that always
14:16
Speaker 2: goes to rich people first, Like the first TV was
14:19
Speaker 2: probably nineteen hundred dollars in today's money, so it's only
14:24
Speaker 2: going to be his rich actor friends and shit who
14:27
Speaker 2: have it so Like, wouldn't one of them been like, no, actually,
14:31
Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. You should come over and watch mine sometime.
14:34
Speaker 2: But he was just like, eh, TV, just see.
14:38
Speaker 5: I think his unlikability is also why like no one
14:41
Speaker 5: ever dug deeper.
14:43
Speaker 3: Into his death.
14:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, finally, not a good thing to say about a
14:47
Speaker 5: dead guy, but people are like, ah, fuck up, who cares?
14:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, this ungrateful bastard god.
14:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
14:53
Speaker 2: He was also uncomfortable with the role because he thought
14:56
Speaker 2: it was only earning him kid fans and that he
15:00
Speaker 2: was gonna be like forever typecast as a kids show actor.
15:04
Speaker 2: And sure he did get type cast, but just as
15:07
Speaker 2: the guy who plays Superman. Like he had plenty of
15:09
Speaker 2: adult fans. But after a while, studios were like, listen,
15:14
Speaker 2: if we book you in this movie, people are just
15:16
Speaker 2: gonna be like, oh, it's Superman, and it kind of
15:19
Speaker 2: fucked his career up in that way.
15:22
Speaker 3: Well, he could have kept on doing Superman shit though.
15:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as much as they talk about him hating
15:28
Speaker 2: this role and being depressed over it, some of that
15:32
Speaker 2: is just people trying to explain what happened to him
15:36
Speaker 2: and trying to like make it seem more plausible that
15:40
Speaker 2: suicide is what happened to this guy. Because they also
15:44
Speaker 2: mention like, yeah, he was bummed about this, but also
15:47
Speaker 2: he like was moving into producing and directing, and like
15:52
Speaker 2: he directed I think the last fifteen episodes of the
15:55
Speaker 2: Superman Show. So he had plans. Like it's not like
16:00
Speaker 2: he had completely hit a wall, Like he was planning
16:03
Speaker 2: on doing shit in the future.
16:05
Speaker 3: Did he start his own production company? Right?
16:07
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, that's a good point. That's also like he
16:10
Speaker 5: didn't have to get like jacked to be Superman, right,
16:14
Speaker 5: And this was in the steroid air where now he
16:16
Speaker 5: could just be a dude to be Superman.
16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was all fucking fat fly is it a
16:23
Speaker 2: bird that's not a fucking bird? Year old dude, he's
16:27
Speaker 2: been drinking a bunch smoking, Yeah, And yeah, but he
16:32
Speaker 2: eventually came to view this role of Superman as like
16:37
Speaker 2: kind of a waste of his time, like he was
16:39
Speaker 2: just wasting his life playing one of the most iconic
16:42
Speaker 2: characters in the history. But again as a different time
16:45
Speaker 2: he didn't know, like the comic books were a thing,
16:48
Speaker 2: but he didn't really have any way of knowing that
16:51
Speaker 2: Superman was going to take off take off the way.
16:54
Speaker 3: It did he did.
16:57
Speaker 5: Dude, it just seems very silly at the time where
16:59
Speaker 5: there's like mainstream combooks that are constantly selling out, and
17:03
Speaker 5: he's just like, I don't know if he's gonna you
17:05
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, I don't.
17:06
Speaker 2: Know, like give it a shot at least don't be
17:09
Speaker 2: sad about it right away.
17:10
Speaker 3: Didn't ask me to be like fucking Marmaduke or some
17:13
Speaker 3: shit like.
17:15
Speaker 2: Fine, we got to cover the guy who played Marmaduke next.
17:22
Speaker 2: So there are a couple really important figures when it
17:26
Speaker 2: comes to the story of George Reeves and how he died.
17:30
Speaker 2: The first is Tony Mannix. At one point during his
17:33
Speaker 2: run as Superman, Reeves struck up an affair with Tony Mannix,
17:37
Speaker 2: and that was risky business because Tony Mannix's husband was
17:43
Speaker 2: a guy named Eddie Mannox who was a fixer for
17:48
Speaker 2: MGM Studios. Meaning you know, if you need someone killed
17:52
Speaker 2: to keep something quiet, you call Eddie Mannix. He had
17:56
Speaker 2: mob ties. He was a bad dude. And so in
17:59
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty eight, he and Tony Mannox ended their affair
18:03
Speaker 2: and he announced his engagement to a woman named Leonor Lemon,
18:07
Speaker 2: who is the other really important figure in this And
18:10
Speaker 2: so before we get into why that is, let's talk
18:13
Speaker 2: about his death. June fifteenth, nineteen fifty nine, Reeves and
18:18
Speaker 2: Lemon went out for a night of drinking and returned
18:22
Speaker 2: home around eleven PM. A couple hours later, two friends,
18:26
Speaker 2: Carol von Ronkel and William Bliss stopped by for a drink.
18:31
Speaker 2: Apparently William Bliss was like not part of this friendship group.
18:36
Speaker 2: They didn't really know William Bliss.
18:38
Speaker 3: Here's some dude.
18:40
Speaker 2: There's just some dude that a friend of theirs brought over.
18:43
Speaker 2: And then there was.
18:43
Speaker 3: Also these old timing names.
18:44
Speaker 2: By the way, Oh yeah.
18:46
Speaker 5: Carol.
18:48
Speaker 3: H Leon Lemon, and they had.
18:53
Speaker 2: A writer named Robert Condon was also living in the
18:57
Speaker 2: house at the time, and he was there the night
19:00
Speaker 2: all happened.
19:01
Speaker 3: A Kato kaelin, yeah, exactly.
19:05
Speaker 2: And by the point those two friends arrive Reeves was
19:09
Speaker 2: already in bed and he was bothered by all the noise,
19:13
Speaker 2: so he flies downstairs to ask everyone to quiet down.
19:19
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, I'm fucking superman, can you tone it down?
19:22
Speaker 3: Potentially butt ass naked? Right, he would be naked during.
19:26
Speaker 2: All this, Yeah, and if he was, people aren't saying so,
19:29
Speaker 2: and that seems like an important detail to leave out,
19:32
Speaker 2: like was to be dark naked when he came downstairs.
19:35
Speaker 5: Because if he wasn't, again, that means he was wearing clothes.
19:38
Speaker 5: And then was like, I'm gonna fucking end it. I
19:40
Speaker 5: don't want to ruin my sweater. They got butt ass
19:44
Speaker 5: and then shut himself.
19:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, he comes down. He's mad that they're being so loud,
19:48
Speaker 2: but they're like, George, fucking relax, have a drink with us.
19:52
Speaker 2: It's fine. So he has a drink with him and
19:54
Speaker 2: then he went back upstairs. And this is when the
19:59
Speaker 2: official explanation of what happened gets really fucking weird and
20:04
Speaker 2: kind of unbelievable according to the people in the house.
20:08
Speaker 2: After he walks upstairs, Leonora Lemon first blurted out He's
20:13
Speaker 2: going upstairs to shoot himself, and then everyone hears like
20:18
Speaker 2: the sound of like a drawer opening, and she goes
20:20
Speaker 2: see he's opening the drawer to get the gun, and
20:23
Speaker 2: then they hear a shot, at which point Leonora Lemon goes,
20:27
Speaker 2: I told you he shot himself, and then they immediately
20:30
Speaker 2: call the police. Forty five minutes later, that part alone,
20:35
Speaker 2: I'm like, these motherfuckers know what happened, and they're lying.
20:39
Speaker 5: A million percent because, first of all, how loud is
20:42
Speaker 5: his furniture where you're hearing fucking drawers open, you know? Yeah,
20:46
Speaker 5: then to call it, but then to admit that you
20:49
Speaker 5: called it, and no one casts suspicion on you, like
20:53
Speaker 5: y'all know what the fuck you did?
20:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the forty five minute thing, like what were
20:57
Speaker 2: you doing in those forty five minutes? Like if someone
20:59
Speaker 2: is like, oh, the gentleman upstairs just shot himself in
21:02
Speaker 2: the head Superman, you know, Superman turns out his kryptonite
21:06
Speaker 2: is handguns, actually, And then for the next forty five minutes,
21:11
Speaker 2: you're just like, all right, but these drinks aren't gonna
21:13
Speaker 2: finish themselves, Like, right, we can call the police later.
21:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's not going anywhere.
21:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the weirdness doesn't end there. For one thing,
21:23
Speaker 2: we've already kind of hinted at it. When police show
21:26
Speaker 2: up and find George Reeves, he is stark fucking naked. Yeah,
21:33
Speaker 2: And it's not like there's an instruction manual for suicide.
21:36
Speaker 2: There's no laws, there's no rules, there's no regulations. But goddamn,
21:40
Speaker 2: is it very rare for a person to strip naked
21:44
Speaker 2: and then kill themselves?
21:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, no one's that considerate to like the mortician
21:50
Speaker 5: that they're like, get naked for this guy.
21:51
Speaker 3: I don't even take it off my clothes.
21:54
Speaker 2: Police also found two gunshot holes in the carpet as
21:58
Speaker 2: well as one in the ceiling.
22:00
Speaker 3: So that house the second floor.
22:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was on the second floor, So.
22:04
Speaker 5: If he's shot downward, you would think the people downstairs
22:07
Speaker 5: that were boozing would at least be like, Yo, why
22:10
Speaker 5: the fuck we get a shot.
22:11
Speaker 2: At right, Or when they tell their story to police,
22:15
Speaker 2: they'd be like, yeah, we heard three shots, but everyone
22:17
Speaker 2: in the house says they only heard one, Like, if
22:20
Speaker 2: you heard one, you're gonna hear the other two. Also,
22:24
Speaker 2: in the week after, when police were still investigating Leonora
22:29
Speaker 2: Lemon cut the evidence tape seal on the home went
22:33
Speaker 2: in took four thousand dollars worth of travelers checks and
22:37
Speaker 2: then fucked off to New York and never returned to California,
22:41
Speaker 2: Which that's weird too. There were also issues with the autopsy,
22:46
Speaker 2: the main one being that it wasn't conducted until after
22:50
Speaker 2: the body had been thoroughly washed. Who the fuck washed
22:53
Speaker 2: his body? Yeah, no, like the coroner's not going to
22:56
Speaker 2: do that. So like nod who gave this man a
22:59
Speaker 2: bath before he got he.
23:00
Speaker 3: Was naked, So they were like, might want to get cleaned.
23:04
Speaker 2: Up, Yeah, maybe sprang him down.
23:07
Speaker 5: No, this is just it's just like everything you want
23:09
Speaker 5: to do for like a cover up and then get
23:12
Speaker 5: everybody involved, are like these steps, like it's like the
23:15
Speaker 5: perfect cover up.
23:16
Speaker 2: People also these days make a big deal out of
23:19
Speaker 2: the fact that the coroner didn't really check for gunshot
23:22
Speaker 2: residue or gunpowder residue. But I've also read that that
23:27
Speaker 2: wasn't really a thing police did that much at the
23:30
Speaker 2: time anyway, Like forensic science hadn't really like they knew
23:35
Speaker 2: about it, but it hadn't caught on in a widespread
23:37
Speaker 2: way where anytime there's a situation like this they check
23:41
Speaker 2: for that, because that would have proven if he shot
23:44
Speaker 2: himself or not, he would have had for sure gunpowder
23:47
Speaker 2: residue on his hands and near his head where he
23:50
Speaker 2: fired if he was shooting at close blank range. There
23:53
Speaker 2: was also significant bruising on his face and chest, which
23:57
Speaker 2: everyone involved, even the corner, was just like, ah, I
24:00
Speaker 2: don't know, who knows. It's like, what do you mean
24:03
Speaker 2: you don't know? You have to tell us, you have
24:05
Speaker 2: to find that out and tell us.
24:08
Speaker 5: And again this is again, this was like the first
24:11
Speaker 5: major TV star and like, no one dug any deeper
24:15
Speaker 5: onto this dude's death.
24:17
Speaker 2: No, he also didn't leave a note, which people who
24:20
Speaker 2: commit suicide don't always leave notes. But he also showed
24:24
Speaker 2: no signs of being suicidal, and I know again like
24:28
Speaker 2: it doesn't always work that way, sure, but also there's
24:32
Speaker 2: all the other stuff, like you have to take like
24:35
Speaker 2: you can't just take each of these things individually and
24:39
Speaker 2: judge them based on like what you know about suicide,
24:42
Speaker 2: Like you have to take the no signs of suicide,
24:46
Speaker 2: no note, and all the weird forensic shit into account together. Yeah,
24:51
Speaker 2: and then it makes like doesn't make sense. It doesn't
24:56
Speaker 2: make sense that anyone got away with this. That's the
24:59
Speaker 2: crazy part.
25:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, no one dug deeper, right, like it was
25:03
Speaker 5: just like they just took vimit their word and been
25:06
Speaker 5: going all right, cool, bye.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah with you or whatever, which is a thing that
25:15
Speaker 2: is uh one of the big problems with the death
25:18
Speaker 2: of Kurt Cobain. Also, at sure the time Kurt Cobain
25:23
Speaker 2: died or was killed, whatever, the Seattle PD had a
25:26
Speaker 2: policy where if like a patrol officer came across a
25:30
Speaker 2: suicide and he decided it was a suicide, they just
25:33
Speaker 2: didn't send homicide investigators. So like the cop that found
25:37
Speaker 2: Kurt Cobain was like, oh, yeah, he killed himself, and
25:40
Speaker 2: they just fucking left it at that and never looked
25:42
Speaker 2: into it more. And kind of the same thing here.
25:45
Speaker 2: It seems like Jesus. And so there are three different
25:49
Speaker 2: theories about what happened to George Reeves, obviously, the first
25:52
Speaker 2: being he shot himself and that's what the ruling was
25:56
Speaker 2: when it happened, and that remains the official theory to
25:59
Speaker 2: this day, and I just I don't buy it at all.
26:03
Speaker 3: No, I don't buy it at all either.
26:05
Speaker 2: Another theory is that Leonora Lemon killed him. And I'm
26:11
Speaker 2: honestly on the fence about which of these two these
26:16
Speaker 2: next two theories is correct, Like Leonora Lemon seems like
26:21
Speaker 2: the obvious suspect. Yeah, because of the forty five minutes,
26:26
Speaker 2: Like her story is blonkers, Like the idea that she
26:30
Speaker 2: was like, he's gonna go kill himself and he did
26:32
Speaker 2: and they just chill for forty five minutes. It's not
26:34
Speaker 2: how people react.
26:35
Speaker 5: No, And it's like if she didn't kill him, then
26:38
Speaker 5: she like had him killed, right.
26:40
Speaker 2: And Yeah, a lot of people suspect that forty five
26:43
Speaker 2: minutes was the time that the household spent cleaning up
26:47
Speaker 2: the scene and you know, removing any evidence that a
26:51
Speaker 2: murder had happened and making it look like a suicide.
26:55
Speaker 2: The thing that makes me unsure about that theory is
27:00
Speaker 2: is the people in that room who all said Leonora
27:04
Speaker 2: Lemon was like, he's going upstairs to kill himself. Those
27:06
Speaker 2: people aren't criminals. Those people aren't murderers. They're like actors
27:10
Speaker 2: and writers and shit. The other theory involves actual fucking criminals.
27:18
Speaker 2: Leonora Lemon they definitely had a rocky relationship, and a
27:22
Speaker 2: lot of that apparently centered around her finding out that
27:25
Speaker 2: the guy who plays Superman on TV is not TV rich.
27:28
Speaker 2: He's just like kind of struggling and She's been painted
27:32
Speaker 2: as a bit of a gold digger over the years,
27:35
Speaker 2: and who knows how true that is. We're talking about
27:37
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties Hollywood.
27:38
Speaker 5: Right in their view of women, where they're like, ah,
27:40
Speaker 5: she had hysteria, and it's like exactly Bride's dying.
27:43
Speaker 3: Man, Like, who knows what she's got?
27:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, actors were kind of paid shitty back then, but
27:49
Speaker 2: also that five thousand a week, again, it was a
27:52
Speaker 2: lot of money in today's money, so who knows. But
27:56
Speaker 2: also everyone in that house was super duper drunk, and
28:00
Speaker 2: people do dumb things when they're drunk, and sure suicide
28:04
Speaker 2: is one of them, but murder could be. Also, you
28:06
Speaker 2: never know. I can't reconcile that forty five minutes with
28:10
Speaker 2: them being not involved, Like there's no fucking way.
28:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:14
Speaker 5: Like even if you're like, say, you have a house
28:16
Speaker 5: party and then that happens, but then you hear like
28:19
Speaker 5: a collapse up the stairs, you'd.
28:21
Speaker 3: Go check that out. Bicko fuck did they fall over?
28:23
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck was that noise?
28:24
Speaker 2: Yeah? And right, I'm like crazy, and I think there
28:27
Speaker 2: are like reports that some of the friends in the
28:30
Speaker 2: house did run up and check on them, and it's like,
28:32
Speaker 2: but then you waited forty five minutes to call police,
28:34
Speaker 2: Like that doesn't make any sense, No, And so there's
28:38
Speaker 2: that theory, the theory that Leonora Lemon killed him, and
28:43
Speaker 2: her friends who were present that night just helped her
28:46
Speaker 2: cover it all up and concocted this crazy ass story
28:50
Speaker 2: and police just bought it. But also there's the other theory,
28:53
Speaker 2: the theory that Eddie Mannox had Reeves killed over his
28:57
Speaker 2: affair with Tony Mannox. On the one hand, that makes sense,
29:02
Speaker 2: like you would hear that and go, well, of course,
29:04
Speaker 2: this guy's super fucking powerful, like, of course he would
29:08
Speaker 2: have someone killed for fucking his wife. But not so fast, yeah,
29:13
Speaker 2: because it turns out Eddie Mannix, like he was working
29:18
Speaker 2: at MGM in the days when the casting couch was
29:22
Speaker 2: like not only an accepted part of Hollywood, it was
29:25
Speaker 2: like expected, like if you had a job like Eddie Mannix,
29:28
Speaker 2: you just got to bone actresses in exchange for putting
29:32
Speaker 2: them in movies. And this motherfucker did that openly, to
29:36
Speaker 2: the point that he didn't care that his wife was
29:39
Speaker 2: fucking George Reeves. They would go on double dates. He
29:43
Speaker 2: would bring his mistresses, she would bring George Reeves. They
29:46
Speaker 2: would go out on dates.
29:48
Speaker 3: Which is fucking bizarre.
29:50
Speaker 2: It's very weird. It's so fucking weird, like to the
29:53
Speaker 2: point that I'm like, were his dates? Dudes? Is that
29:56
Speaker 2: what was happening here? Right?
29:58
Speaker 3: Like something like that or just all just swinging.
30:01
Speaker 2: And Tony Mannix was also one of his mistresses before
30:05
Speaker 2: they got married, so she knew what kind of dude
30:08
Speaker 2: her husband was and so on that front, it makes
30:12
Speaker 2: it seem like Eddie Mannix wouldn't have done this because
30:18
Speaker 2: he didn't care about the affair. But the thing is
30:22
Speaker 2: the big quirk there, Tony Mannix wasn't just George Reeves's girlfriend.
30:26
Speaker 2: She was like his benefactor. He was a kept man.
30:31
Speaker 2: She paid his bills, she bought him the house he
30:34
Speaker 2: died in, like she did a wife I know, must
30:38
Speaker 2: be rough him. And the thing is she did all
30:43
Speaker 2: of that with the expectation that they'd get married. When
30:48
Speaker 2: Eddie Mannix eventually died of one of the heart attacks
30:52
Speaker 2: he apparently had all the time, just like Dick Cheney
30:55
Speaker 2: levels of heart attacks. Just you fucking a stiff wind
30:59
Speaker 2: hits him and he's like.
31:00
Speaker 5: Ooh, but this is why another reason why I can't
31:04
Speaker 5: really root for this guy is because he fucking got
31:07
Speaker 5: to play Superman.
31:08
Speaker 3: Bang of this rich lady.
31:10
Speaker 5: She buys them everything, and then he's still like kind
31:13
Speaker 5: of a sad dude.
31:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, cheer up man, yeah, And so he eventually leaves
31:21
Speaker 2: her despite all of this, despite her believing they're gonna
31:25
Speaker 2: get married. When Eddie Mannix dies, he breaks up with
31:28
Speaker 2: her and gets engaged to Leonora Lemon. So the other
31:33
Speaker 2: theory isn't so much that Eddie Mannix had him killed
31:37
Speaker 2: because he was sleeping with his wife. It's more that
31:40
Speaker 2: Eddie Mannix had him killed because he broke his wife's heart,
31:45
Speaker 2: which that is kind of compelling because she did not
31:51
Speaker 2: take the breakup well. She starts calling George Reeves like
31:55
Speaker 2: twenty times a day trying to get him to come back.
31:59
Speaker 2: She is nineteen fifties hysterical at.
32:02
Speaker 3: The Teddy's next level was of couck if that's true.
32:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Eddie again has like mob ties, like if
32:08
Speaker 2: anyone could have gotten George Reeves killed, it was Eddie Mannix,
32:12
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, that is such cuckshit.
32:13
Speaker 5: Come on, dude, right, you get in like you're gonna
32:16
Speaker 5: kill the guy that broke your wife's heart, even though
32:18
Speaker 5: he's blowing your wife's back out.
32:20
Speaker 3: You knew that's crazy.
32:22
Speaker 2: It is really crazy. But the thing is it's almost
32:27
Speaker 2: less crazy than the official story, which is that Leonora
32:30
Speaker 2: Lemon was just like, ah, he's gonna go kill himself,
32:33
Speaker 2: You're safe. That's how everyone talked back then.
32:36
Speaker 3: They're all in black and white too.
32:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I was like again, this also supports your
32:43
Speaker 5: theory that this guy was just dog shit with money,
32:46
Speaker 5: because if you're making like four and k year and
32:49
Speaker 5: then you have some lady that you're boning paying all
32:51
Speaker 5: your bills, what are you doing with that money?
32:53
Speaker 2: Yeah? Why are you digging cesspools? I think he probably
32:56
Speaker 2: stopped after he met Tony Mannix, but and.
32:58
Speaker 5: I even met, like the're a super time because like
33:01
Speaker 5: Leonora was just upset that he wasn't as rich as
33:03
Speaker 5: he was. I don't know, man, Yeah, I'm very confused
33:07
Speaker 5: by this guy's fucking motives and choices.
33:09
Speaker 2: There is one detail that kind of supports the idea
33:13
Speaker 2: that the Mannoxes were involved. There's a woman named Phyllis Coates.
33:17
Speaker 2: She played Lois Lane in the Adventures of Superman, and
33:21
Speaker 2: she was friends with everyone involved. She claims that the
33:25
Speaker 2: morning after George Reeves was killed, she got a call
33:30
Speaker 2: from Tony Mannox. Here's a quote. She was hyper ventilating
33:33
Speaker 2: and ranting. She said, the boy is dead, he's been murdered,
33:40
Speaker 2: and she did call him her boy like. She gave
33:43
Speaker 2: him a pocket watch at one point that had an
33:46
Speaker 2: inscription that was like, to my dear boy.
33:49
Speaker 3: How was she way older? It is like a cougar thing.
33:52
Speaker 2: I think she was like eight years older than him,
33:55
Speaker 2: so she would have been Yeah, I didn't look her up.
33:58
Speaker 2: She would have been in her fifties. I'm assuming awaiting.
34:02
Speaker 2: Oh she's okay, let's check her out.
34:04
Speaker 3: She's okay.
34:06
Speaker 2: Forehead, yeah, I mean she's got more of an eight head,
34:08
Speaker 2: but yeah, beyond that, Yeah, she's all right. Now. Let's
34:12
Speaker 2: look up Leonora Lemon. Hmm, oh, she's all right too.
34:15
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. They look almost exactly alike, to the
34:17
Speaker 2: point that I don't know that the pictures I just
34:20
Speaker 2: looked at of, you know, Tony Mannix, weren't actually Leonora Lemon,
34:25
Speaker 2: who knows, but exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah, so just
34:29
Speaker 2: fucking stay with Tony Mannix, dude.
34:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, you moved laterally and got murdered. Exactly.
34:36
Speaker 2: Wasn't even lateral because he ends up with someone who
34:40
Speaker 2: wants his money, like she wants Tony Mannox's.
34:44
Speaker 3: That's a good point. Yeah, makes the dumbest fucking choices.
34:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, he took a step back. Damn.
34:51
Speaker 5: This is why there was no investigation. They were like, dude,
34:53
Speaker 5: how could you not see this coming? You fucked up
34:56
Speaker 5: years ago.
34:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, he earned it, and so Eddie Mannix again did
35:03
Speaker 2: have mob connections, and there were rumors that he had
35:07
Speaker 2: his first wife murdered by those mob connections. She died
35:11
Speaker 2: after being mysteriously run off the road after arguing with
35:16
Speaker 2: Eddie Mannix at like a restaurant some of his mob
35:19
Speaker 2: friends owned. It's like, oh, that's not suspicious at all, dude.
35:25
Speaker 5: Murder back in the day was probably the easiest thing
35:27
Speaker 5: to do. Oh yeah, he just fucking kill.
35:29
Speaker 3: Someone and drive a mile away and you're innocent.
35:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no forensics. No, It's like that John mulaney
35:38
Speaker 2: bit where he talks about cops back in the day
35:40
Speaker 2: where someone would be like, we found a pool of
35:42
Speaker 2: blood on the floor, and the detective would be like, interesting,
35:46
Speaker 2: now back to my hunch, Like, what are you gonna
35:49
Speaker 2: do with that? Blood. You just know there's blood. And
35:52
Speaker 2: the question people have about the idea that maybe the
35:55
Speaker 2: Mannixes were involved is, well, how would this killer get
35:59
Speaker 2: into the house without that whole party full of people knowing?
36:05
Speaker 2: And I think my pushback would be what if they
36:07
Speaker 2: did know? Like what if he just showed up and
36:09
Speaker 2: was like, Hey, I am a mafia guy and I
36:14
Speaker 2: am here to kill George Reeves and if you don't
36:17
Speaker 2: like it, I'm gonna kill all of you also, And
36:19
Speaker 2: I could see that house full of drunken revelers being like, shit, okay, yeah,
36:26
Speaker 2: because the story they come up with makes no It
36:28
Speaker 2: makes just as much sense as someone sneaking into the
36:31
Speaker 2: house and killing him unnoticed, for sure.
36:34
Speaker 3: And they could have just said that, yeah, somebody's not
36:37
Speaker 3: getting murder him.
36:38
Speaker 2: Right, And but then you have like then you're a
36:41
Speaker 2: snitch and you have the mob on your fucking back.
36:45
Speaker 2: Like that guy could have been like, and if you
36:47
Speaker 2: don't say that he killed himself, I will come back
36:50
Speaker 2: for you, And like, what do you do, Like if
36:53
Speaker 2: that happened, if that guy was like, listen, I'm gonna
36:56
Speaker 2: fucking kill George Reeves because he broke Tony Mannix's heart.
37:00
Speaker 2: That fucking party full of fucking actors and writers isn't
37:03
Speaker 2: gonna do shit. They're gonna be like, what do you
37:06
Speaker 2: need us to say?
37:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's yes, and it's whatever you say.
37:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you know, they were all good at improv,
37:12
Speaker 2: they're actors. There are also people who suspect that that
37:17
Speaker 2: stranger who showed up William Bliss. He was the one
37:21
Speaker 2: guy that that friend brought that everyone knew. There are
37:24
Speaker 2: people who suspect that he distracted everyone while the killer
37:29
Speaker 2: snuck into the house. And I mean that would account
37:32
Speaker 2: for those forty five minutes for sure.
37:34
Speaker 3: I mean that does sound like a super fake name.
37:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, William Bliss, Yeah, Bill Bliss, Yeah, Bill Bliss, Billy b.
37:42
Speaker 5: It was might as well name himself, like, not gonna
37:45
Speaker 5: murder someone, like that's his name.
37:47
Speaker 2: And the idea that William Bliss was involved somehow was
37:53
Speaker 2: lent a little credence by the fact that thirty years later,
37:57
Speaker 2: Leonora Lemon admitted to a reporter her story about predicting
38:02
Speaker 2: George was about to go up and shoot himself was
38:04
Speaker 2: actually concocted by William Bliss. And apparently this reporter at
38:09
Speaker 2: no point was like, oh so, what really happened. Apparently
38:12
Speaker 2: they were just like written down thanks and asked for
38:15
Speaker 2: no other questions. Also in nineteen ninety nine, a Beverly
38:21
Speaker 2: Hills publicist named Edward Lotzi claimed that on her deathbed
38:26
Speaker 2: Tony Mannox confessed to her priest while Lotzi was present,
38:30
Speaker 2: that she had George killed. Oh, which that's also possible
38:36
Speaker 2: because she would have had the same access to all
38:39
Speaker 2: those killers that Eddie Mannox had access to, Like she
38:43
Speaker 2: would have known someone who if she was like, listen,
38:46
Speaker 2: you gotta kill this guy for me, like she could
38:49
Speaker 2: have had him killed absolutely for sure. And this guy
38:53
Speaker 2: Edward Lotzi claims she confessed because she was quote absolutely
38:57
Speaker 2: terrified of going to hell. Oh I feel like I
39:02
Speaker 2: like Tony Mannox for it. I think I think she
39:05
Speaker 2: might've been the one for sure.
39:06
Speaker 5: And then there was also something I read that said
39:09
Speaker 5: that like George Reeves's mom tried to get it reopened. Yes,
39:13
Speaker 5: she tried to get the case reopened, and then they
39:15
Speaker 5: just shut her own, like no reasoning. There's like now
39:18
Speaker 5: we can't do that.
39:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, that's super suspicious, Like this is obviously
39:25
Speaker 2: a huge cover up of some sort, Like someone here
39:28
Speaker 2: is lying and I think it's everyone. I think everyone
39:31
Speaker 2: knows exactly what happened to George Reeves that night, and
39:36
Speaker 2: or at least everyone knew. I'm pretty sure most of
39:38
Speaker 2: these people are dead now, sure, and like there's not
39:42
Speaker 2: gonna be enough time that passes where you can finally
39:45
Speaker 2: be like, all right, here's what actually happened. The mafia
39:48
Speaker 2: killed him, Like the mob's not going away, Like they're
39:51
Speaker 2: still going to be around and we'll come back for
39:54
Speaker 2: you if you make that confession. And also at that point,
39:59
Speaker 2: everyone in the house is an accessory to that murder.
40:02
Speaker 3: Sure, because they're all probably fucking dead by now, right.
40:05
Speaker 2: Right right, But there's no statute limitations, Like there's no
40:09
Speaker 2: statute of limitations for murder. So I know there are
40:12
Speaker 2: people who want to believe like, oh, if that's what
40:15
Speaker 2: really happened, someone would have said something. Well, for one thing,
40:19
Speaker 2: people did say something. Tony Mannox allegedly confessed, Leonora Lemon
40:23
Speaker 2: allegedly confessed that her story was made up. So people
40:27
Speaker 2: did say something. But also, how much are you wanting
40:30
Speaker 2: people to say, like you are literally identifying yourself as
40:36
Speaker 2: someone who participated in a murder. If you're ever going
40:39
Speaker 2: to be like all right, what actually happened as a
40:41
Speaker 2: guy showed up and killed him and we just agreed
40:43
Speaker 2: to stay silent about it. It's like, well, then you
40:46
Speaker 2: also murdered that guy, Like that's how the law works,
40:49
Speaker 2: Like accessory to murder is just as bad. Yeah, no, true,
40:54
Speaker 2: Like the only way you would fix that would be
40:57
Speaker 2: like testifying against the mob in the fifties, which can't
41:03
Speaker 2: know it's a sketchy proposition.
41:06
Speaker 5: And again, what evidence do they have other than your
41:08
Speaker 5: word too, Like he can't go dig up his body
41:12
Speaker 5: and see I there's any residual like fucking gun casings
41:14
Speaker 5: or anything or gunpowder, Like no, it's fucking done.
41:18
Speaker 2: And like here's the thing we're talking about cops and like, oh, well,
41:22
Speaker 2: why didn't the cops see this? Why didn't the cops
41:24
Speaker 2: see that? Because cops are corrupt, Like we're talking the
41:26
Speaker 2: LAPD in the fifties, and they they might as well
41:30
Speaker 2: have been studio executives themselves, Like Hollywood got away with
41:35
Speaker 2: so much shit back around this time, like actors didn't
41:39
Speaker 2: go to prison like no, never, never. So I think
41:45
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear George Reeves was murdered for sure. It's
41:48
Speaker 2: just a matter of who did it.
41:51
Speaker 3: Now?
41:51
Speaker 2: I kind of want to watch hollywood Land again.
41:53
Speaker 3: Don't are you sure it's getting good? Note fall for
41:57
Speaker 3: this fucking trap. You know the story now, am I?
41:59
Speaker 2: The Joy Dreaves of this story is the Hollywoodland movie,
42:04
Speaker 2: my fucking Leonora Lemon. I'm gonna watch it and be like, oh,
42:07
Speaker 2: I made a huge mistake.
42:08
Speaker 5: But how like Adrian Brody plays the one detective that cares?
42:12
Speaker 2: Okay, there was no detective that cared.
42:15
Speaker 3: Come, that's the thing.
42:16
Speaker 5: I mean, they sort of based it off like one guy,
42:18
Speaker 5: but like, you know, none of them gave a fuck.
42:21
Speaker 2: Shout out to Adrian Brody playing pat Riley and winning
42:24
Speaker 2: time though. Holy shit, he nailed that.
42:26
Speaker 3: I have not seen an episode.
42:27
Speaker 2: It's so good it got canceled, which bums me out.
42:31
Speaker 5: It's so good it canceled, canceling the fucking everything to
42:34
Speaker 5: try to save money.
42:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that's our episode. I'm like, we're
42:41
Speaker 2: obviously not gonna solve the case, but all of them, Yeah, yeah,
42:45
Speaker 2: I think that that is what's going on. I think
42:48
Speaker 2: everyone in that house was involved, even if just tangentially,
42:54
Speaker 2: even if it was just the killer being like, you
42:56
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up, you won't say anything about what
42:59
Speaker 2: you saw. That is highly believable. That I think is
43:03
Speaker 2: the most believable is that sure a guy just showed
43:06
Speaker 2: up to kill him and threatened that party into not
43:10
Speaker 2: saying anything.
43:11
Speaker 5: Or like what like George was fucking abusive towards Leonora.
43:16
Speaker 5: Leonora grabs a gun and shoots him. Then everybody hides
43:19
Speaker 5: his clothes like yeah, no, no, yeah, especially when there's
43:23
Speaker 5: a fucking stranger it just showed up.
43:25
Speaker 2: Yeah. The part where he's naked is weird because also,
43:29
Speaker 2: again we talked about it earlier, like was he naked
43:33
Speaker 2: when he came downstairs? Because if so, no one said that.
43:36
Speaker 2: And it seems like the amount of time between when
43:39
Speaker 2: she says he's going upstairs to shoot himself and when
43:42
Speaker 2: he shoots himself, when did he take his clothes off?
43:45
Speaker 2: Like it seems like they just hear the drawer open
43:47
Speaker 2: and then hear the shot, and it's like, well, when
43:49
Speaker 2: when did he get naked? According to this timeline? That
43:53
Speaker 2: part's weird.
43:54
Speaker 3: It's all super fucking weird and like no one, no
43:57
Speaker 3: one cared.
43:58
Speaker 2: You're like all right, yeah, like ah, I'm over that
44:00
Speaker 2: Superman show anyway.
44:02
Speaker 3: Fuck it, he didn't want to do it anyway.
44:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that is the most plausible explanation.
44:08
Speaker 2: I think a killer showed up and was like, hey,
44:12
Speaker 2: you might recognize me as being the guy who just
44:14
Speaker 2: killed someone upstairs, and if you don't want to be next,
44:17
Speaker 2: how about you concoct a story. And also that story
44:21
Speaker 2: they come up with sounds like a story for completely
44:25
Speaker 2: drunk people would come up with, because why not just
44:28
Speaker 2: say he came downstairs, went back to bed, we heard
44:32
Speaker 2: a shot, Like why add the whole Leonora said He's
44:36
Speaker 2: going upstairs to shoot himself. It's like, why even say that? Like,
44:40
Speaker 2: why not just so we don't know what happened? He
44:42
Speaker 2: went upstairs and shot himself. Who knows? But yeah, the
44:45
Speaker 2: fact that this got treated as a suicide and was
44:48
Speaker 2: just written off as that is nuts. Like all that
44:51
Speaker 2: physical evidence, the bruising on his face and on his chest,
44:54
Speaker 2: where'd that come from?
44:55
Speaker 3: He snuck?
44:56
Speaker 5: He's not gonna put a fucking fight club and beat
44:58
Speaker 5: himself up and then kill himself, right.
45:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.
45:00
Speaker 2: The only weird piece of forensic evidence that was maybe
45:05
Speaker 2: explained away where the two gunshots in the carpet. Leonora's
45:09
Speaker 2: claim was that those were from a previous argument where
45:13
Speaker 2: a gun was fired Jesus, which, uh yeah, I mean,
45:17
Speaker 2: I guess that could be it, but also I don't know.
45:20
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a crazy ass story. Check out
45:23
Speaker 2: Hollywoodland in theaters now. Oh wait, no, that was two
45:27
Speaker 2: thousand and six. Okay from off camera. Uh yeah, that's
45:31
Speaker 2: how these things work. We're never gonna know what happened.
45:33
Speaker 2: But I think we know.
45:34
Speaker 3: I think yeah, we have an idea, and I.
45:37
Speaker 2: Think that's our episode. We did it, we made it.
45:40
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for doing the pod. I appreciate it.
45:42
Speaker 3: Of course.
45:43
Speaker 2: What do you have to plug before we get out
45:45
Speaker 2: of here?
45:46
Speaker 3: Shit to plug? You can follow my social media if
45:49
Speaker 3: you want. I don't know. I don't, I don't fucking
45:51
Speaker 3: I don't care. I could be. I do not care
45:53
Speaker 3: about social media anymore.
45:54
Speaker 2: You sound like George Reeves Right now.
45:57
Speaker 3: I know I'll go get butt ass naked and end
45:59
Speaker 3: it real quick.
46:01
Speaker 2: Don't please don't know? Uh? What do I got to plug?
46:04
Speaker 2: I have a show November tenth at Sardine and San Pedro.
46:10
Speaker 2: We're doing another Nerd Rockers ball that's gonna be a
46:12
Speaker 2: damn good time. And then I'm doing a show at
46:15
Speaker 2: El sid on November seventeenth. That is Samantha James Show.
46:21
Speaker 2: And uh, there'll be more stuff, but for now, just
46:24
Speaker 2: come to all that. Come see me, Come see my
46:26
Speaker 2: second return to comedy of the year. I tried it
46:29
Speaker 2: in February, then got debilitating mouth surgery and now I'm
46:34
Speaker 2: back at it again until another Dennis breaks another needle
46:38
Speaker 2: off in my face. Probably.
46:40
Speaker 3: I hope it went very well. You're very good.
46:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, and uh, I think that's it. Let's
46:48
Speaker 2: get the fuck out here.
46:49
Speaker 4: A tiff say goodbye, peace, goodbye everybody, we love you.
47:00
Speaker 3: SUPs to be
47:01
Speaker 1: Destroyed, instruction bands thought to be destroyed,