Latest / Your Mic / How to Monetize a Niche Podcast Before It Launches

Transcript

How to Monetize a Niche Podcast Before It Launches · Your Mic

• 0:00
  My friend Victoria Meyer built a six-figure podcast in the chemical industry.
• 0:05
  Now she's selling sponsorships for a show that is not even launched yet.
• 0:09
  No celebrity host, no million-dollar download fantasy, just one sharp niche, a real offer, and the nerve to charge for access.
• 0:18
  By the way, Victoria is going to be speaking about monetizing your niche at Illuminate, which is happening October 2nd.
• 0:25
  at the Health Museum in Houston, Texas.
• 0:29
  You get 25% off your tickets on groups of two or more.
• 0:33
  Tap the link in the show notes to get your discount.
• 0:38
  Victoria, right off the bat, you're telling me just before we hit record that you haven't launched a show on your network yet, but it's monetized five figures.
• 0:50
  Yes.
• 0:51
  How?
• 0:52
  Yeah.
• 0:52
  So that's a great question.
• 0:53
  So first of all, my core podcast is The Chemical Show, and it's been successfully operating for five years, six-figure revenue from it, doing sponsorships.
• 1:05
  I am building out through my business, Progressio Media, a series of chemical industry podcasts.
• 1:10
  Yeah, it's geeking out, but it's also the industry, and I know this industry, and niche podcasts and niche media are a vital part of business.
• 1:22
  People want them, et cetera.
• 1:23
  So yeah, I've got a new podcast launching.
• 1:25
  I'll tell you guys, it's going to be coming out publicly in a couple of weeks.
• 1:29
  It's called The Business of Case.
• 1:32
  Case, by the way, is coatings, adhesives, sealants, and elastomers.
• 1:36
  So imagine the sticky stuff on an envelope that you get from your Amazon package or news.
• 1:44
  The paints and coatings on your wall, on your car, everywhere.
• 1:48
  So huge business.
• 1:49
  And yeah, I've got industry leaders hosting it.
• 1:54
  And as part of the deal, I said, okay, we're going out and getting sponsors right away.
• 2:00
  And I've got...
• 2:01
  Somebody lined up to sponsor the first 10 episodes.
• 2:05
  Part of this is two things.
• 2:06
  Number one, I know what I'm selling.
• 2:08
  They know that I can generate success based on what I've done with The Chemical Show.
• 2:11
  So that's one thing.
• 2:13
  This host is amazing.
• 2:15
  She knows the industry.
• 2:16
  She's going to be bringing great people onto her podcast.
• 2:20
  And the company that's sponsoring it, which, by the way, happens to employ her, but it's a separate relationship.
• 2:27
  As I was telling you earlier, I've got a contract with the host and a contract with the sponsor, and they are two separate things.
• 2:36
  But they're so excited.
• 2:37
  They were happy to sign on the dotted line to sponsor the first 10 episodes.
• 2:42
  Okay, so there is a lot to unpack there.
• 2:44
  I wanna begin with the employer-employee relationship and how you're managing that because that is two separate entities.
• 2:54
  How easy was it?
• 2:55
  So let's just say somebody's wanting to do something like that.
• 2:58
  Maybe they're, and this is super niche because now we're talking about people that own networks, but the riches are in the niches, right?
• 3:05
  So for somebody who's about to toe that line,
• 3:09
  How easy was it for you to get both parties on board?
• 3:13
  And would you say it was easier for the employer or easier for the employee?
• 3:19
  It was easier for the employee, for the host.
• 3:22
  She was who I approached first.
• 3:24
  I have a second podcast, I guess it's a third podcast that's in the works, also with people that are employed, and I've approached the host first.
• 3:32
  Because frankly, without a host, you have no podcast.
• 3:35
  True.
• 3:36
  I think you can develop a podcast and slot a host in, but that's not the approach I've taken.
• 3:40
  So I made it really clear.
• 3:43
  And it was a little muddy.
• 3:44
  I'm going to tell you, Freddie, it was a little muddy because once Crystal and I started talking about this podcast, she was excited.
• 3:52
  And then my next call was with the head of marketing from their company.
• 3:57
  And I was like, okay, this is great.
• 3:58
  Like, this is kind of what we want.
• 4:00
  And I said, okay, dial it back.
• 4:02
  Um, our next exchange, I said, uh, let's just be really clear.
• 4:07
  These are two separate transactions because crystal's coming to me as crystal, who she is independent of a company she works for.
• 4:16
  Yes.
• 4:17
  She's got relationships.
• 4:18
  Her being a podcast host is actually going to be hugely beneficial for the work that she does, but it's also a separate relationship.
• 4:27
  Um,
• 4:28
  than the relationship that I have with the sponsor and that she has with them as an employee.
• 4:35
  So as it turns out, it was pretty straightforward because we defined pretty clearly
• 4:42
  The host role is not as a representative of her company.
• 4:45
  It is simply her as somebody in the industry, a very well-known person that can speak to the topic that she's speaking on.
• 4:54
  And the sponsor is a sponsor because it's a great opportunity for them.
• 4:59
  What was that like, though, to kind of break –
• 5:03
  for lack of a better term, break the heads of the marketing team and the employer to realize, hey, yes, she is employed under you, but no, this is not her representing your company.
• 5:16
  You know, to be honest, that was pretty straightforward.
• 5:18
  Although I know that she had separate conversations with her management team.
• 5:24
  So the management team had to agree to it.
• 5:26
  However, you know, we're sitting here in Texas.
• 5:29
  She's not in Texas, but Texas is an at-will employment team.
• 5:32
  Your company can't actually prevent you from doing a side job that's not conflicting with your current business.
• 5:39
  So I think at the end of the day, they saw that it was a win-win-win for all of us.
• 5:48
  Let's walk it back to the chemical show.
• 5:50
  For those not watching, Victoria has a sign.
• 5:54
  Five years in the making.
• 5:57
  And congratulations because so many people give up before even completing a whole quarter of it.
• 6:03
  And they're like, ah!
• 6:04
  podcasting doesn't work.
• 6:06
  It's not for me.
• 6:07
  There's no ROI, et cetera, et cetera.
• 6:10
  But you've got your show monetized to six figures and it's through booking guests.
• 6:18
  So this is something that flies in the face of people that are in the industry from a production standpoint, from a PR standpoint.
• 6:27
  You never charge for guests.
• 6:29
  How dare you?
• 6:31
  It should be all about earned media.
• 6:35
  What is going on with this?
• 6:37
  And I say, no.
• 6:39
  What happens between two consenting adults...
• 6:42
  happens between two consenting adults, and there's a value exchange.
• 6:46
  It's mutually beneficial for both parties.
• 6:49
  So I want to hear from you, what was it like the first time you made that very first ask to a potential sponsor and how much simpler or harder it has gotten five years later?
• 7:05
  Yeah.
• 7:05
  Well, I'm going to say, Freddie, my first ask was inept and scared.
• 7:13
  And I mean, I didn't know what I was asking for.
• 7:15
  Will you please be my sponsor?
• 7:17
  I didn't know what I was offering.
• 7:19
  I didn't know what I was asking.
• 7:20
  I'm actually pretty lucky.
• 7:21
  I actually had sponsors that were doing advertising, so kind of more of a traditional host red ad ad.
• 7:28
  even inside the first year, but it was few and far between.
• 7:32
  It did pay some of my publishing costs, yay, that was great.
• 7:36
  But it was really hard.
• 7:37
  I didn't know what I was asking for.
• 7:39
  And so now five years into the Chemical Show, I've gotten better at it.
• 7:42
  But my first step was building out a media kit.
• 7:47
  And so I went and I looked at,
• 7:50
  Okay, how do other businesses, other forms of media get advertising and sponsors?
• 7:57
  They have media kits.
• 7:58
  They're usually available for download on their website.
• 8:01
  They specify what your reach is, how many people you get.
• 8:05
  And, oh, by the way, like…
• 8:07
  Let's be honest.
• 8:08
  My reach was like 100 downloads an episode if I was lucky.
• 8:12
  Right.
• 8:12
  Which, by the way, I'm also very appreciative.
• 8:14
  I recognize and I know Buzzsprout, if you look at Buzzsprout's podcast data, they would say you are in the top 25 percent of all podcasts if you get like 110 downloads.
• 8:28
  in the first seven days.
• 8:29
  So I think we sometimes think, Oh, we have to be this million download podcast.
• 8:35
  No, there's only a handful of those.
• 8:38
  Most of them are somewhere in the messy middle.
• 8:40
  If you get, uh, something like 25 downloads, you're in the top 50% of all podcasts.
• 8:46
  So I think there's hope for everyone.
• 8:48
  Um, but I, I, uh,
• 8:52
  My first ask was sucky and it was basically a no.
• 8:55
  It was kind of ignored.
• 8:57
  It wasn't even a clean enough ask.
• 8:58
  It was simply ignored.
• 9:00
  And then I put together a marketing kit.
• 9:03
  And it was like, okay, this is what I'm offering.
• 9:05
  This is what a host bread is.
• 9:08
  By the way, here's the next thing, host red ad.
• 9:10
  Would that make sense to you and I, Freddie?
• 9:13
  The rest of the world doesn't know some of this stuff.
• 9:16
  I mean, I even remember talking about, well, do you want a pre-roll or mid-roll?
• 9:19
  And I'm saying, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 9:22
  We're in America.
• 9:22
  Speak English.
• 9:23
  What does that mean?
• 9:24
  So I think, as with every business, we have...
• 9:29
  We talk about stuff and we need to decode it, right?
• 9:32
  So we need to decode it.
• 9:33
  People don't know what a host read ad is.
• 9:36
  They don't know what a dynamic ad is.
• 9:37
  They don't know what mid-roll is.
• 9:38
  You have to spell it out in the words that they get.
• 9:39
  And so that was one of the big lessons I had was demystifying it.
• 9:40
  The second piece was, for me, it's all about reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach, reach,
• 9:52
  and not downloads.
• 9:54
  In fact, I'm talking at your upcoming event, Illuminate, and about monetizing, and one of my things that I talk about is downloads don't count.
• 10:03
  People get more value from everything in your ecosystem.
• 10:07
  It's not just the downloads.
• 10:09
  So in the case of the Chemical Show, I have a dedicated email list that goes out every week for every episode.
• 10:17
  Every episode gets published in full to my website as a transcription.
• 10:22
  By the way, in the age of AI, it's a transcription.
• 10:25
  This is huge.
• 10:28
  AI loves words and data and content.
• 10:34
  And so this is actually huge value to anyone that's a guest on your show is if you're providing a transcription.
• 10:40
  they become more searchable and findable by AI.
• 10:45
  And I'm sorry to interrupt.
• 10:46
  Are you talking about publishing the transcript from the episode to your website?
• 10:51
  So each episode gets its own page.
• 10:54
  Every episode has its own page, yes.
• 10:56
  And so let me ask you this.
• 10:58
  Are you going through and having your favorite LLM content?
• 11:04
  correct the grammar and any misspellings on the transcripts or are you just posting the raw transcripts from the produced episode?
• 11:10
  Great question.
• 11:12
  So my process is, um, every, the audio and video gets edited in Descript, but we do not use Descript for the final translation.
• 11:23
  We use CastMagic.
• 11:25
  So every episode gets loaded into CastMagic.
• 11:28
  CastMagic's an AI-based tool.
• 11:30
  I love it.
• 11:30
  It's amazing.
• 11:32
  It can identify titles for you.
• 11:34
  And it does all this stuff.
• 11:37
  Splits it out.
• 11:38
  We get the transcript from there.
• 11:39
  And it's a clean transcript.
• 11:41
  Yeah, I've used Cast Magic before.
• 11:44
  And what's amazing about that product is that you can not only get the transcript, but you can create all kinds of different prompts.
• 11:50
  They have an online community, and you can share prompts with one another.
• 11:53
  Freddie and Victoria can geek out over, oh, hey, did you know that you can use this prompt?
• 11:57
  Hey, did you know you can manipulate it this way?
• 11:59
  And it's all based on whatever your episode transcript is.
• 12:02
  So, yeah, that's a great hack for anybody who's wanting to...
• 12:07
  And I actually use it.
• 12:10
  We send out a weekly email.
• 12:11
  The episode email goes out every week, and we create that in Cast Magic.
• 12:17
  We tune it up a little bit, but Cast Magic knows how I want it written, and it spits it out.
• 12:23
  Yeah.
• 12:25
  So, so, um, back to the whole reach thing.
• 12:28
  So your reach is beyond downloads.
• 12:29
  It's downloads.
• 12:30
  It's YouTube.
• 12:31
  It's if you're publishing any shorts, the reach that your shorts gets, it's your email list.
• 12:36
  It's your personal LinkedIn is my big social media, but it could be LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, your guests, Dan, just guess your guests and your sponsors.
• 12:49
  They're looking for reach.
• 12:52
  And so that's probably the other big learning I had, was packaging it up as reach.
• 12:58
  And then probably the third thing that really changed the game for me was, and I was two and a half years into this, Freddie, and...
• 13:08
  I had some guests coming to me, companies, so PR companies wanting to place guests from chemical companies onto the show and asking me, what's your fee?
• 13:18
  And again, I was like, how about sponsoring two episodes?
• 13:22
  And I didn't know.
• 13:24
  I didn't know.
• 13:24
  And I talked to a couple of friends who are in marketing at chemical companies that I know are.
• 13:33
  work to get sponsorships, work to get their leaders on stages, work to get their leaders in magazines.
• 13:37
  I'm like, how does this work?
• 13:40
  Like, how does this work?
• 13:41
  How do you pay?
• 13:41
  And they're like, oh, no.
• 13:43
  Like, we were on X podcast, and that was a $10,000 fee.
• 13:47
  I'm like, whoa.
• 13:49
  Oh.
• 13:50
  Oh, really?
• 13:50
  $10,000.
• 13:52
  Okay.
• 13:52
  We were in...
• 13:56
  We were in a magazine, like a trade magazine, and we paid X thousand for that placement.
• 14:05
  Oh, so it became this big aha.
• 14:07
  And so, Freddie, what I like to say is trade media is paid media.
• 14:13
  And that's probably the biggest learning I've had.
• 14:16
  And by the way, every business has trade media.
• 14:22
  We were talking about the new food podcast that your team is developing and launching.
• 14:30
  There are a gazillion and one trade elements related to the food business.
• 14:36
  And micro niches within that ecosystem.
• 14:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:43
  And so that's probably the biggest learning.
• 14:46
  So we talked about it offline, you asked.
• 14:50
  I do charge people for interviews.
• 14:53
  But they're not just, it's not really charging them for an interview.
• 14:57
  It's really a marketing.
• 15:00
  It's an executive interview fee, and it's an exposure fee.
• 15:03
  It's marketing.
• 15:05
  My guests and sponsors love the access they get.
• 15:10
  They get a lot of content that gets shared.
• 15:13
  It is very findable.
• 15:15
  The Chemical Show is a well-known brand name at this point.
• 15:18
  They get credibility from it.
• 15:20
  And they get reach.
• 15:21
  And they...
• 15:23
  want exposure.
• 15:25
  Every business is looking for exposure and reach and audience.
• 15:31
  And through my podcast, through your podcast, we're creating that opportunity.
• 15:38
  I go back to the word access, and it seems very apropos for what you're doing because you've got the ears and the eyeballs that these high-level executives want.
• 15:50
  And if we're talking about...
• 15:52
  Big bankrolled chemical companies, 5,000, 10,000, dare I say more, is a line item error in a spreadsheet.
• 16:05
  You know, it's interesting, Freddie.
• 16:07
  Yes and no.
• 16:09
  Because the biggest companies with the biggest zeros behind their profit line are often the cheapest.
• 16:19
  And so their marketing, you know, they might be a billion dollar company and their marketing budget is, you know, a nanosecond.
• 16:25
  Which is why they have 100 followers on LinkedIn.
• 16:27
  Yeah.
• 16:28
  But I mean, this is where it grows.
• 16:30
  But I think if you look around, every business spends money.
• 16:36
  on advertising and marketing, right?
• 16:39
  So in my community, we get this Community Impact Magazine.
• 16:43
  It's actually a Houston-based business, I believe.
• 16:47
  It's got all kinds of ads in there for restaurants and the bank and the gas stations, or maybe not gas stations, but my gosh, we have so many car wash places.
• 16:59
  Every car wash place has an ad in there.
• 17:02
  They're there for exposure.
• 17:04
  They're willing to pay to be exposed or to get that exposure.
• 17:10
  And so this is, I think, with niche podcasts and niche media of any kind, there are people that want access to you.
• 17:20
  to your audience, to the people that are listening, to your authority that you bring on your topic, whether your topic is, you know, how it could be something silly.
• 17:33
  It could be something very business focused.
• 17:36
  There are businesses that want access to you.
• 17:40
  You have 100 followers.
• 17:42
  My gosh, somebody wants access to that amazing 100 people that follow you, that are part of your circle.
• 17:48
  What do you tell the person who is like the Victoria Meyer of whatever they do, be it automotive, be it private cooking, be it...
• 18:01
  physical training for women in menopause or whatever it is.
• 18:05
  Which is a big market, by the way.
• 18:07
  Dad's trying to shed the dad bod 20.
• 18:09
  Yeah.
• 18:10
  But they're not quite sold on it yet.
• 18:12
  Let me play devil's advocate.
• 18:14
  Victoria, that's great.
• 18:15
  Congratulations, you've made some money.
• 18:18
  Yeah.
• 18:19
  How do I know this is going to work for me?
• 18:21
  You don't know until you try.
• 18:22
  That's one thing I would say.
• 18:25
  I think no matter if you have two choices with your podcast.
• 18:32
  Maybe there's three, but we'll call it two.
• 18:35
  It's either a hobby or a business.
• 18:39
  If it's a hobby, don't ask anybody, but don't fuss when you make no money on it.
• 18:44
  Hobbies make no money.
• 18:44
  You spend money on hobbies.
• 18:46
  I mean, I have boxes of scrapbook stuff for when scrapbooking was my hobby.
• 18:52
  I love to read.
• 18:54
  Reading is a hobby.
• 18:55
  Gardening is a hobby.
• 18:56
  You know, I am the meme that says, ooh, I spent $278 for this one tomato that I grew.
• 19:03
  I mean, we all have hobbies.
• 19:05
  And hobbies cost money.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  And it's okay.
• 19:09
  It's great.
• 19:11
  If you want a podcast as a hobby because you have something you're passionate about talking about, fabulous.
• 19:17
  Go for it.
• 19:18
  If you want to run a business, then you have to think like a business person.
• 19:22
  And you have to know that in every business, there's an exchange of value.
• 19:28
  And don't be afraid.
• 19:31
  One of the things, Freddie, like sometimes, and I've seen this on some of the podcast, you know, Facebook pages and in groups and stuff.
• 19:37
  They're like, well, I'm just doing a service.
• 19:40
  I'm doing a service.
• 19:42
  I shouldn't be asking for money.
• 19:43
  It's wrong to ask for money.
• 19:46
  I do this as a service for my community.
• 19:49
  Great.
• 19:50
  So does your doctor.
• 19:51
  They ask for money every time.
• 19:53
  So does your insurance agent.
• 19:55
  They ask for money every time.
• 19:58
  So does your grocery store.
• 20:00
  And yet when was the last time you walked out with a cart full of food for free?
• 20:04
  Never.
• 20:06
  Understand your product.
• 20:08
  And I think this would be the other piece I would say, Freddie, in terms of
• 20:12
  It was really hard for me to separate selling myself from selling my podcast.
• 20:20
  And what I've come to realize, and so I am huge on having a media kit, having a media kit and being clear what sponsorships you're offering, whether it's a host-read ad, whether it's a social post, whether it's something else, because people buy products.
• 20:37
  And when you're selling a product, it's a lot easier.
• 20:40
  It's not personal.
• 20:42
  Do you need this product?
• 20:44
  Do you need the whitening toothpaste?
• 20:46
  Yes or no?
• 20:49
  Which is very different than saying, would you be my friend?
• 20:53
  Because a lot of times I think when we first start podcasting, and I think most podcasters, I'd love for every podcaster to think of themselves as a business owner.
• 21:03
  You have a business in your hands.
• 21:05
  Yeah.
• 21:09
  When we first start, we feel like it's about us personally, like I've done something wrong.
• 21:14
  It's about me.
• 21:16
  Ooh, they don't believe in me.
• 21:18
  They just maybe don't see the value for the product that you're selling.
• 21:22
  Right.
• 21:22
  And the other thing, too, is that nobody's going to love what you're doing more than you.
• 21:27
  The moment somebody loves what you're doing more than you is probably the day that you need to look at the mirror and ask why you're even doing it to begin with.
• 21:38
  Maybe.
• 21:38
  Maybe.
• 21:39
  I do agree with that.
• 21:41
  But I also would say, as every podcaster knows, a podcast is work.
• 21:47
  And it's okay if you don't love all the work, but find a way to make it happen for yourself.
• 21:53
  Victoria, this has been another fantastic conversation.
• 21:58
  I enjoy my time with you every time we get to hang out.
• 22:03
  And I'm so glad that we connected last year and that you're going to be a part of Illuminate.
• 22:10
  At the time of this recording, it is mid-September, and Illuminate is happening October 2nd and 3rd at the Health Museum in Houston, Texas.
• 22:20
  And we're going to have Victoria's discount code in the show notes.
• 22:25
  Her talk is monetizing your podcast niche.
• 22:28
  If you've got a niche that you refuse to shut up about, Victoria is the speaker.
• 22:32
  You definitely want to come to illuminate and watch and meet her.
• 22:37
  And by the way, she makes a killer salsa.
• 22:41
  Oh, yeah.
• 22:43
  We're talking about hobbies.
• 22:45
  That is a hobby.
• 22:46
  I like making salsa and canning it.
• 22:48
  That's it.
• 22:50
  Victoria, thank you so much for everything.
• 22:52
  Thank you, Freddie.
• 22:52
  I've really enjoyed this.
• 22:54
  And I can't wait to be with you and all the other great content creators and podcasters at Illuminate.
• 23:00
  It's going to be awesome.
• 23:01
  Thank you.