Latest / Skin Anarchy / Adam Schubak, Editor and Partner Manager for HEARST Magazines

Transcript

Adam Schubak, Editor and Partner Manager for HEARST Magazines · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, I wanted to pop in real fast before the episode and share with you my current obsession in the skincare space.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: I have been loving every single product by Skinfix.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't know much about Skinfix, it was originally inspired in 1870 by Thomas Dixon, who was a pharmacist at the time.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he was creating this bomb that was used that was working for so many of his customers for all their skin concerns.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So carrying that legacy and heritage forward, Amy, who is the current CEO and founder of this amazing line, has created a wide range of products that really fit for almost everybody in every demographic.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm obsessed with the work that they're doing in the science aspect, in the self-care aspect, connecting clean beauty.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's all of the good things that we want in our skincare products without compromising results.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: So again, check them out at www.skinfix.com and stay tuned for this awesome episode coming up.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, guys.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ecta, and I have a phenomenal guest for you guys today.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we are going to learn a lot in this episode.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Adam Schubach, who is um uh uh uh Hearst magazine's partner manager and editor.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you uh so much, Adam, for your time and welcome to the show.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Ecta.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's my honor.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to get started by learning about your career and just you know, um, what led you to this point and all the all the details, if you could share that with us.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I would I always talk about my career and say that.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to college for print journalism, and I I age myself calling by admitting that I'm a geriatric millennial.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to college in this weird time where like the internet was very much a thing, but I majored in print journalism anyway, and it was a whole like learning how to do a newspaper layout and all these things that when you're writing for the internet don't really matter as much anymore.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But so I was studying journalism essentially, and in I went to college at American in DC, and they were really trying to force the whole political writing and covering stuff that was being happening on Capitol Hill, and I knew doing that, I didn't want to do that.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knew the type of writing I wanted to do was more focused around like kind of lighthearted stuff that people would just kind of read on their lunch breaks and just kind of spend time reading when they wanted to just escape their lives.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um I so I I made studied in that.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't quite find a job in journalism right away.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had a job at TV Guide Online after right after college, but I was doing video editing for them, and I've kind of always been in other areas within media, but not actually writing, which is always what I wanted to do.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I finally got a job before my Hirsch job where I was writing for radio stations.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was essentially like a almost like the associated press, the associated press, um, like where we would we would supply news articles, news stories to radio stations across the country to read on air.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that work was very anonymous, so I get a byline there, and every writer wants a byline.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew I needed to get out of there.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually was hired at Hearst initially to be a quiz writer.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um audience and partnerships team.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it was, I've kind of I've been at Hearst at almost for for almost four years now, and my job has changed almost every year that I've been there.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I started as a um as a quiz writer, and then within a year, I was writing regular content, uh, like articles and and building photo galleries.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that sort of brought me into my role now, which is my partner manager role, where essentially I create content and help syndicate Hearst content to our other partner websites like MSN, Apple News, Yahoo, and those kind of things.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, that's so interesting.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I I have so many questions because I really don't know how the publication wor uh world works.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm gonna dive into those later.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I want I want to know, like, you know, in terms of like getting to write, like, you know, what you wanted, what were some of the first topics that you wrote about?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you have any say or, you know?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what I I think for me, it was, you know, it was a slow progression.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, I was hired as a quiz writer and I got to pitch ideas for quizzes, but ultimately, like as I was starting out, I didn't know the brands as well as I do now and like the type of content that they would like.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So things were assigned to me more and more.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: But now that I'm in a uh partner manager role, I and I've been doing this for a few years, I know the type of content that works well for our partner sites.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of know what to write about and what to I have a I lead a right a team of freelance writers as well, and I kind of give them ideas for what to write about.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, that's awesome.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, really cool.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I never knew like that's why I really wanted to speak with you because I don't understand the connection between, you know, like, for example, like a beauty publication, and then like you said, you know, connecting those stories with like, you know, um just like MSN or like these other networks.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've never understood like how those relationships get formed.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love some insight into that if you could share with us.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, what what I love most about my job, and like I think when I started at Hearst, you know, there was this idea that like, oh, I should try and find my way into one of the brands that Hearst owns and try and like get a staff job there or something.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I realized that I'm in a very lucky and fortunate position where I get to work with all of the brands and write content for all of the brands.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially how that works is we uh my team is essentially, even though we are a Hearst uh a section of Hearst, uh we vote my work primarily is with the partners that we have deals with for syndicating our content out with, which is like I said, MSN, Yahoo, and Apple.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, people sign contracts and whatever, and we and we make deals to send our content to them.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I, as my role, is to identify some of the content that like highlighting some of our best content for them to be like, hey, I know you're getting a bunch of content from us, but these are ones that you might really want to check out.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and for you, what is that process like?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, what are some things that you consider to be, you know, I guess worthy of like really passing along and pushing?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I kind of use my knowledge of the partners that we work with and their audiences, not as much as what hearse audiences are, but just knowing that, like, for example, MSN, that they're um knowing that their audience skews a little older, I try and find content that our brands are putting out that might appeal to their demographic more.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of how I go.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that like certain brands that we have at Hearst skew a little younger.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so theirs is a their content is usually a tougher sell, but I know how to sift through their content to make it work, uh, you know, find the stuff that will work for their audience.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like the MSN audience might not know who you know the TikTok stars are, but yeah, there is stuff that you know, 17 might be putting out that that is still stuff that the MSN audience will like, like what to watch on um, you know, Netflix or something like that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's so interesting.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, I I never really understood or really knew about this area of you know, just a collaboration uh between different types of publications and media.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had I had no idea.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So is that like considered some sort of like a um like ads almost?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like the content that Hearst provides for other meaning, how does that work?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like in terms of the, you know, um like the partnership there, like what is their um like the the content you guys just give it over and then it's theirs, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ours our names are on it and linked back to Hearst sites, but essentially uh what it is is we we make we we send them their con we send them the content and with websites like Yahoo and MSN, like if you go to those home pages, their entire home pages are made up of content that they've sourced from other sites, not just Hearst sites, but they have hundreds of partners, small media companies, like they uh uh some Hearst competitors, like we're all trying to win over the spaces on their home pages.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because believe it or not, like even though I don't use msn.com very often, like they still have millions of uh page views on on a daily basis that are up for grabs.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right, absolutely.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that that's really like you know, it's an interesting connection.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, you know, the people or the writers that are and journalists that are um producing the content for Hearst, you know, uh like are they usually people that have worked in like, you know, maybe they've worked for Yahoo at one point, or they've worked for Amazon at one point, and they also work for Hearst so they have that dual perspective, or is it really just kind of, you know, you stick to the content and you trust your writers?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, how is that in terms of the relationship between editors and and hiring them or you know, putting them on a project or something?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean I don't we don't necessarily look net, we don't i if it happens naturally, you know, I think just in the uh in the editorial world, I think that writers tie kind of jump from place to place, and you know, we there's a lot of exchanging between the media companies and employ employees jump from company to company usually.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't necessarily look to do that, it's just that I have a pool of freelance writers that I built from people that I've met over the years that I've worked with, and just people whose resumes were passed along to me.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I work with them, I take a look at the work samples that they can provide.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if I think that they are good, uh if they're capable, if they seem capable of taking on the work that my group does, then you know, I always like to give them a chance.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked because I have uh, you know, I've gratefully met many editors through the show, and you know, I always wonder the role of like a freelance editor and you know what they go through to like land projects and stuff.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was very curious.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, go ahead, please.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was just gonna say, I think the other thing that's really fun is in my specific group, like I think that within specific brands at Hearst, they might have different ways of approaching it and how they staff and how they find the writers that they work with.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: But because I am not, again, not on any specific brand there, I kind of have this nice ability to kind of do it my way or you know, try things a little differently.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, and I I have one question though.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have one question about um, in terms of like, for example, I know that you know, I can speak about beauty brands because I I talk to, you know, most of those founders, but like when it comes to something going viral, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like from a social media standpoint, like I always think of that, you know, first you get featured in in a magazine and a brand will go on to like get the word out, and that, and you know, I'm guessing this has a lot to do with it, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're almost transitioning from one uh area of exposure to another.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you transfer, if you get featured in Harper's Bazaar, and then you get, you know, like something happens to where it's interesting for Yahoo to pick up that story.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, what like I'm just trying to figure out like how that works.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And have you seen that happen a lot?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like a like a grassroots, you know, brand grow to the point where, you know, that's what the trajectory is.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I haven't been doing this for so long that I have really seen that happen.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, I think that you latch on to you find there are these beauty brands or just any kind of brands in general, like when it comes to the holiday season a lot of the time, or really any time of year, whenever there's uh any kind of gift-giving occasion, like Father's Day is coming up, you know, there's they the PR companies are in full like push mode trying to get you to feature their clock clients in roundups that you do and things like that, and they're sending emails and they're trying to invite you to things and all this stuff that might uh get you to pay attention to the brands that they're representing.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, obviously it's a money game, I feel like.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a larger brand, like they have the financial means to do a heavy push and to throw these elaborate events that will get people talking about their products.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then there are if you have a good enough product and you are a smaller company, and really what it takes is for you to get that product in front of editors who will try it and see how good it is, and then and then you know want to write about it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot to be said about that very basic um interaction that people will have, and that's the thing.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, editors, I know for me personally, when I am when I'm being asked to promote a product, I don't feel comfortable promoting a product that I haven't tried myself and can actually say that I like.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, you know, to turn around and do that it seems so uh disingenuous.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fraud, yeah, it's fraud.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, for that, and you know, I've gotten luckily, you know, there have been opportunities for me to try different skincare products because at certain points I have written that kind of content, and you know, I've discovered uh brands that I like to use on my own and I've continued to use them.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um and when I do roundups like that, I I try and help them out as well.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's really, you know, that's really kind of what I was asking because I think, you know, with especially with the way the skincare industry is right now, at least from what I'm noticing, you know, there's so many brands and so many of these founders just have amazing stories.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when I watch them grow or I watch that brand grow, I always like wonder like, well, what's it gonna take to be, you know, to give them that next push where they become that next uh you know Neutrogena or they become the next Maybelline, or you know what I mean?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it I always just wonder about in terms of like publicity and getting the word out.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I I love that you helped uh in any way that you can.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I and I, you know, I think like one of the things that I've seen were, I mean, I think that in general, like obviously I think that the you know, the uh self-care and grooming product, it's it's a tough market, you know.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's just a very saturated marketplace and there's new ones popping up every other day.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had conversations where I say, like, it's hard to know because I don't I don't know this, I don't, I'm not entrenched in that whole world where I know the science behind a lot of the products and stuff.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So when PR people are telling me about what's in a certain product and why it's good and all this stuff, or you know, like serums, serums were really popular or getting or are popular now and all this stuff, and it's like, okay, well, I don't really know all of this information, so that doesn't mean a lot to me.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: But if you again, if somebody presents me with a starter kit and says, These are our products, here's little samples of all of them, uh, and I try them out and they really help my skin.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I know that I'm going to want to promote this brand.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: That makes total sense.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, actually, I'm uh struggling on a much smaller scale with the same idea.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I some brands reach out to me and I'm like, Can I have like at least like one product?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because they want me to interview them, and I'm like, I know nothing about you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know nothing about your product.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally understand, you know, what you mean.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really about you know authenticity.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you know, the industry always talks about things like transparency and you know, all these big words get thrown out.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think that it really comes down to like, you know, person to person, executive to executive, you know, how they approach this.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really love um how you explained your approach to it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, sorry for interrupting your episode, but just a quick shout out to brilliancebybrown.com.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is an amazing publication which is geared towards providing reviews and options and highlighting brands that are really good for almost any skin type, especially for men and women over 40.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Heidi Brown is just doing a phenomenal job.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Her whole team is working so hard to bring forward products that really work for the stamographic that's never really been, you know, um highlighted before in the industry.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So again, www.brilliancebybrown.com.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out and also check out Heidi's interview on our show.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, guys, and I'm gonna let you get back to this episode.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually want to move on and I want to ask you a question.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you can't answer, that's totally fine.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing that's come on my radar, come on to my radar that I'm really having a hard time understanding is the relationship that, you know, um like magazines or just you know, they have with certain brands and featuring them more so than other brands.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because this, and I don't know how much truth there is to this.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So please don't think that I'm, you know, I'm saying this.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've just heard this and I guess it's going around the rumor bill.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering how that works.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do brands work with magazines to, you know, promote other than ads, is what I mean.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, in terms of having editors write about them more often than others.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there such a thing?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I and this is a question, unfortunately, that I can't answer because I don't work for a specific magazine brand.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know the inner workings of how uh any of the brands that do this kind of content really come down to making the decision about what to feature.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I just know for me, you know, I think it's about familiarity in some ways.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not necessarily that they're loyal to specific brands, but I think that, you know, if if I have a product, like I said, if I have a product that I work, that I love, that I've used several times and have become a loyal customer for, and I'm a writer, I'm going to want to include that brand moving forward and give them the attention that they that they deserve for making a quality product that I use genuinely use every day.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, I think that might be part of it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think again, if it's sort of a money thing, you know, you have to also look at the audience as well.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you put uh, let's say a dove product in a roundup and it sold a hundred units on your way on the story or however many on the story, you know, if you know that the readers that are clicking on your products are clicking on Dove products, then they're probably it's probably a good idea to keep putting Dove products in your Roundups.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, I see what you mean.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's it's really about good business.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what it is.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that it makes sense.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't say it's exclusively that, and I think that lately there's been a huge movement, I think, in in supporting a small business and stuff like that, and and help and helping up-and-coming businesses get off their feet a little bit by giving them that promotion as well.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the attitude is shifting, but you know, the tried and true favorites are always going to be there.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, that that really clarified it for me.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it makes complete sense.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every publication house is also a business.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to promote what is you know most appealing to your to your viewership.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally get that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I, you know, I I want to ask you though, because I want I want you to share some career advice because I know that this industry is extremely difficult to succeed in and you know, really make a mark.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you've accomplished so much.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love if you have any, you know, advice for somebody who wants to go in the same track that you know you're in, and and they're just kind of trying to figure that out, you know, where who to reach out to or like what kind of people to connect with, that kind of stuff.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you can share some advice for with us.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say in my specific situation, where I am right now and how I got in at Hearst is essentially the first thing is to always sort of be hustling a little bit.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, when I was doing my last job and I was frustrated about not having a byline on the content that I was creating, I realized that um BuzzFeed had a community section that invited, encouraged people to submit content to them, which they don't pay for, which is a problem, and it's definitely gotten like uh exploited all over the internet for being an issue, but I Was before all that, and I realized how kind of bad it was that they weren't that they were making a lot of money off of the content.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was producing content for BuzzFeed, and a few pieces that I did went viral and had my names attached to it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was interviewing at Hearse, the woman who interviewed me had actually previously worked at BuzzFeed.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we talked a little bit about my contributions to their community section.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was something that I worked on in my spare time.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a job, my first piece of advice would be if you have a job that's not in exactly in the industry that you're looking to be in, do whatever work you can on the side that will help benefit your boost your resume or do whatever it can and give you the experience that will get you that extra little step towards what you're trying to get, where you're trying to go.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like going the extra mile.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like you really have to go the extra mile and make sure that if this is what you want.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that makes total sense.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, in every field, like I remember when I was younger, I was always like reading science stuff.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what I mean?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, yeah, I I it makes sense what you said.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I I want to actually I have one more question for you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I this is something I actually spoke of uh or spoke about recently um when I interviewed Michael Kranz, and we were talking about men um being represented in this industry, you know, and I know that you're not in the beauty industry directly, but I know that, you know, just in media in general, I guess, you know, like how do you feel about the representation of men and you know, just uh the the messages that should be going out to young men that are, you know, consuming all this media and and learning from it?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like how what are your opinions around that?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I think I feel like when I was growing up, my skincare routine was like Stridex pads and like, you know, the teenage, the typical teenager, like greasy face, rubbing alcohol, different gel, all that stuff.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think the the thing is, I I think men have to learn about skincare and proper skincare the same way in the same like health class in when you're growing up, like that teaches you about using deodorant and all that stuff.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like it should come with that so that people understand that using a moisturizer, I think it's still viewed as emasculating to like put products on, and it's a stupid idea uh that that it makes you like effeminate in some way because you moisturize your face or any having any care any skincare routine is still sort of viewed in that way, I feel like unfairly.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because and I think it's also why there's a whole skin there's a whole sector of the uh skincare industry that's geared towards men, so that like even though I don't necessarily think a lot of skincare products need to be gendered in the first place, it all comes down to like fragrance and like this is a manly scent, so this is a men's skincare product, but it's really just moisturizing the same way a woman's moisturizer does.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like so.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Once I kind of broke those barriers for myself, like I it opened up a whole world for me, and I love to use whatever products I find are good for my skin.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think yeah, it's it's hard because it's still viewed in this way where you know, if you care about your skin and you have the whole routine, you are, you know, either a gay man or what they used to call a metrosexual.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it becomes so so like gross to me that there needs to be such a gendering of this experience.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, even recently, there's been I've been getting um pitched a lot for make a cover up for men, um, and you know, trying to break the boundaries of men wearing makeup, and you know, even with that, you know, not just because you put on a little cover-up if you have a blemish on your face doesn't make you James Charles, you know, like I think like you don't have to just jump right into the deep end, you can try out different things, and it's all about just caring for your skin, and there's nothing wrong with caring about the health of your skin.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, no, absolutely, and I think you know, you really hit on some great points.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for me, you know, from from the medical end, I always think of this as so baffling because it's like not only is it obvious that you know good skin care, you know, just good skin regimens are good, you know, important for everybody, we all have skin.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's been said, you know, multiple times.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I think about men have estrogen too.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: We men and women, and if you think about the hormones that we have, we also have certain levels of testosterone, you know, even though our estrogen is more.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's this like almost like in if you look at the human physiology and if you look at just how we are composed as like, you know, overall our bodies, like there's really not this feeling of, oh, well, men, this is the only thing that works for men, or just only that genderfication isn't even there on the molecular level.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it just doesn't make sense to me why we um, you know, take this concept and just make it so convoluted.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think that we learn for me, I always assume like, you know, we learn the most from like what is naturally occurring.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at what's naturally occurring, there's no such thing as, you know, like compartmentalizing everything.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely agree with everything you said.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I just overall, I feel like don't get hung up on like the the gendering of the skincare products.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Try the skin, it's try things and see what your skin, what your how your skin reacts to it, if it if you like the way your skin feels and looks after you use a product, it doesn't matter what that product is, keep using it.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, on that note, I was uh gonna ask you actually if you could share maybe some products off the top of your head that you are enjoying right now and that you use.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I the first thing, and this is I want to give them a shout out.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I use bar soap still.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love bar soap, and Bearsville Soaps is this uh small uh bar soap company.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that they're located in upstate New York, but they have really great scents, and I've been using them again.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: This was one that I discovered through my job and have been using for years now, since I started uh working with them a little bit, and I love the stuff that they put out, and they've jumped into the um uh moisturizer and uh lotion space as well, as well as candles.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I highly recommend them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I am I really I'm a diehard fan of uh Origins brand.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love all of their moisturizers.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have um they have an energizing orange one that I love, and there's uh a mushroom one that I've been using lately, a mushroom elixir one that's just oh, I know exactly which one yours.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great one.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, those those products are really good.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love rituals, is another brand that I'm really in, I really love.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so I would say them and Briquel uh is a men's skincare uh group that I've uh had a relationship with, and I love the stuff that they do.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what we touched on earlier about the samples thing, what I love about Briquel is that if you go on, they just want to encourage men to take on a routine.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go on their website, they offer a free starter kit to try out their products and find out what your skin needs, and yeah, then you can buy the larger versions of them for yourself.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: But their line of products is also very good.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that I love when brands make it easy, you know, it's like you just buy what you need and then you're good to go because that's it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's also a part of why.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is just my own personal theory for everyone out there, but I think that's also why men are like a little like deterred from skincare sometimes.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like there's so many products and there's so many colors associated with those products.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I often wonder is it like, you know, uh a man goes into Sephora and it's like, okay, yeah, I'm done.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like hard to figure out what to use.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I you know, I I like brands that have that little package, and you know, you can kind of try.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be it can be very intimidating, and I totally understand that because it really was and it still is in very many ways, because even the starter kit comes with so many things, and you're just like, which do I put on first?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And how like, oh, how much of it do I put on?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's there's a lot of question marks associated with it, but um, especially since the market is so huge, like you go to a pharmacy and they have their own section, but then you go to a high-end department store and you're like, which one, you know, should I go with lab series or should I go with what they have in the in the CVS?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, you know, Adam, this has been amazing.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much from you, and it has been such a such an honor to host you.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime you have like any free time in your calendar, please come back.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you, Mr.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Projector.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: This was a wonderful chat.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone listening out there, I hope you love this conversation and you learned as many things as I did from Adam.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Leave us some comments and keep the conversation going.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think this is a a great time to be talking about, you know, men's skincare and just proper representation and all that good stuff.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So let us know what you think and I will be back next time.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, thank you.
• 31:43
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• 32:50
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