Latest / All The Right Movies / Gladiator (2000) | Ep. 12 - Part 1

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Gladiator (2000) | Ep. 12 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

0:04
All the right movies, the general What we do in life
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echoes in eternity. Who became a slave?
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You should not have defied the Emperor, the slave.
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In the crowd. Who became a gladiator?
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They said you were a giant. I shall cheer the gladiator at
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my signal. Unleash hell.
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Who? Defied an empire.
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Today I saw a slave become more powerful than the Emperor Bro
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from Director Ridley's. Scott Russell Crowe Gladiator
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Rated R Ridley Scott Gladiator was released in 2000 and became
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an instant classic. Set at the height of the Roman
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Empire and telling the tale of Maximus, a general turned slave
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seeking vengeance for his murdered family.
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It was a box office and awards hit and made a superstar of its
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lead. Russell Crowe.
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My name is John and with me today are Westie.
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I did not say I knew him, I said.
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He touched me on the shoulder once.
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And Matt? You sold me queer giraffes.
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All the right movies are in 180 AD to talk the glory of Rome,
1:06
Ridley and Russell. We're not the best because we
1:09
kill quickly. We're the best because the crowd
1:11
love us. Hello and welcome to All the
1:34
Right Movies, Fathers to murdered sons, Husbands to
1:38
murdered Wives, and the podcast on classic and hit films.
1:41
Yep, that's everything. Today, we're going back further
1:45
than we ever have before. 2000 years, give or take a decade to
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talk Ancient Rome, the Colosseum and Russell Crowe as we bring
1:53
you the story behind Ridley Scott.
1:54
Swords and sandals. Epic gladiator.
1:57
Yeah, Yep, Yep. Before we go back a couple of
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There's some really good discussions, always very
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vibrant, always always lots of fun loads.
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For now, though, it's back to the three Rs Ridley, Russell and
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Rome. I wonder what the third one was.
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I thought you were going to say Reed.
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We could only be talking about Gladiator there.
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So why are we talking about it, Matt?
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Well, I mean, it was just like such a staple part of Saturday
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night TV, wasn't it? Because he had Jed.
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He had Wolf. Oh, come on.
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Someone had to make that joke. Wanted to get out of the way.
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No, no, the film, right? I think in recent years, right,
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this film, people have got quite sniffy about it and I don't
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quite know why. And I don't think it gets enough
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credit in a lot of ways because this whole sword and sandwood
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genre was absolutely dead before this came along.
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And obviously you've got Braveheart a few years before,
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which helped, but then this one comes along and for me it's
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still like the standard bearer of the genre.
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I mean, Ben Hur, it's got two or three really famous scenes, but
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when's the last time anyone actually tried to watch that?
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It's an absolute snooze festival, but this one, it's
4:15
anything but. It takes off like a rocket and
4:17
it just keeps going. It never stops.
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It's just an absolute roller coaster ride.
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It's a sheer entertainment. Yeah, I remember this coming out
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at the cinema when I was a teenager.
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It was massive at the time, wasn't it?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Oh yeah.
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Huge. Box office smash.
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It won awards left and right and made a huge, huge star of
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Russell Crowe and Ridley Scott. Again, three things in a couple
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of months. So lots to talk about there
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straight away. Yeah, I've got a bit of an
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interest in ancient Rome as well.
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I've been to Rome and it's a stunning place.
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So just seeing it, realizing all of its former glory and
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gladiators. Fantastic, massive production is
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the film. So loads to get into there as
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well. And there's some right
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characters in there, not just Crow and Scott, but we've got
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Joaquin Phoenix and a couple of old school hell raisers and
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Richard Harrison, Oliver Read. So we might have a few good
5:00
stories around them as well. Definitely.
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Yeah, yeah, definitely. Know that not everyone loves the
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film like must sort of touched on, so I'm interested to get
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your fellows takes on it as well.
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And Westie. Yeah, well, I was working at the
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cinema at the time when this came out and we saw it last
5:15
afternoon few. And then we came out and then we
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went out and I just thought I need to say that again.
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So I went straight back in and watched it again.
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Classic Westie, classic Westie. And nobody else came back in.
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They were like, well we're we're going out.
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I was like, I'm fucking nuts. Classic Westy.
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Yeah, classic Westy. So I went back and watched it
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again. I was just absolutely blown away
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by it. I loved like all them Sword and
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Sandals epics. I love Ben Hur and I loved
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Spartacus. I loved like, even the more camp
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ones like Clash of the Titans, Jason, the Argonauts.
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I kind of grew up with all of this.
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Then all of a sudden, like almost like reality, it was like
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a real life version of it. And it was, it was up to date
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and it was mine. And I was like, this is amazing.
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I absolutely fucking love this. It had everything that I wanted.
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It had action, it had emotion, it had great story, had great
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characters. It had some old actors, like you
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said, like Richard Harris and Oliver Read, who I hadn't seen
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for years and years, and they just popped up and they just
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fucking added so much to it. And I was so excited to watch
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it. And I still am excited to watch
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it. Like when that DreamWorks comes
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up and it's sepia and like that, you just hear the two in the
6:16
background, then the glad you're going.
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You haven't said fucking this is so good.
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Singing it for the first time on the big screen was just an
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absolute spectacle. And I love the film.
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I always have. And I'm still not sick of it.
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Watched it about six or seven times in preparation for this.
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Any excuse. So watched it again last night
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and it's just, yeah, it's fucking brilliant.
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Absolutely. Love that kind of way to talk
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about it. So Gladiator that was produced
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and distributed by DreamWorks and released on May the 1st,
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2000. Filmed on location in England,
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Morocco, Malta and Italy. It was directed by Ridley Scott,
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written by David Franzoni, John Logan and William Nicholson, and
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it stars Russell Crowe, Joaquin Phoenix, Connie Nielsen, Oliver
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Reed and Richard Harris. So should we get stuck in then?
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Let's get in there. Yes.
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OK, cool. Via Germany and Northern Europe,
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we're heading back to 180 and all Domini and Ancient Rome to
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bring you the beginning of Gladiator.
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Let's give them something they've never heard before.
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Ridley Scott doesn't hold back and throws us in the thick of it
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right away in Gladiator. And we've got 2 massive moments
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to talk about. We're discussing the key plot
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point where Communist murders his father and Roman Emperor
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Marcus Aurelius. But we're starting before that
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with the big action set piece opening in Germania.
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Yeah. So after some title cards
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telling us that the Roman Empire stretched from the deserts of
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Africa to the borders of Northern England, we're right
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into it. We meet our protagonist.
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That's Maximus, played by Russell Crowe.
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He's a Roman general and leading his men in the battle against a
8:15
tribe of Barbarians in northern Europe.
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Oh yeah. Huge opening spectacle of this,
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right? No, it's it's almost too big.
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Westy on my signal. Unleash hell.
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Right, I'll wait for it. I'll wait for that flame.
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And I wrote to fly open my window.
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Oh, there it is, right. Here we go.
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But it's just, yeah, just straight in.
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You just get that close up of Crow.
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He's watching that little Robin, and it flies away.
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And then you just get to see this grandeur of just the army.
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It's just one thing after the next.
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You just get when he's walking through, you can just tell the
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character you want to fight for him automatically after about 30
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seconds. And the great thing about this
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film is that Ridley Scott just is so interested in how artistic
8:59
it is and how visual it is. And he gives you the back story
9:01
on the screen for 25 seconds, telling you what's going on, and
9:05
then gives you a hand going through wheat for 28 seconds.
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He's more he's more bothered about that hand going through
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the wheat than he is about the whole back story of the film.
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Classic Scott. Yeah, it really is when the the
9:17
Germanian Barbarians come through, if you notice the chant
9:20
from Zulu. Oh, right.
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Yeah, that's great. It's taken straight from Zulu.
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It's like when they're kind of intimidating them, so they use
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that over the top and they've added more beers to it.
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And I love that the the leader of the Germanian army's got that
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staff and he's got that mask on it, which is a mask from Zardos.
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Did you know that? You know the show, really.
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It's a mask from Zardos painted grey.
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Mankini 1. Yeah, I was like, this just gets
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better. It hasn't even started yet.
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Well, my favorite bit of this whole sequence is when
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everyone's kind of lining up and you, he's given the orders, like
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the range is good, everything's fine, everyone calm down.
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And then that horse comes through with a guy who's heads
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off and you just think, oh fucking hell.
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And you hear the screams and everything starts building up
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and that horse knows where it's going.
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It's obviously shit scared. It's running back home.
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And it's like they're saying no. And it's just so good.
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It's just so powerful. Now, without this opening
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sequence, you wouldn't have half as interest in battle sequences
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since in every single film that's come since.
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And you certainly wouldn't have as engaging series as Game of
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Thrones, for example, which owes a lot to the even just this
10:25
opening sequence. It's that good.
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The film could end at the end of the sequence and I would be
10:29
perfectly happy to spend a tenner on it, no problem.
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Yeah, I mean, there was only one way this film was ever going to
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start, and that's the Roman army going into and winning an epic
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battle. It does everything Scott needed
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to. It's thrilling.
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So it pulls us, the audience, and immediately it introduces us
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to our hero and effectively sets him up.
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We see he's a great fighter. He's taken on about 10
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Barbarians at once. While they're on fire.
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Yeah, and he's on the floor. We see he's a great leader
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because he masterminds the victory and we see he's an
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honourable man. I like that line where Quintus
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says people should know when they're conquered and Maximus
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says would you Quintus, would I? It's great.
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And what this opening also does is it sets the template for
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what's coming. This film's going to be
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absolutely massive in scale, and that's set up here really.
11:15
Seen a battle sequence as big as this.
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I know it took 20 days to film it in England.
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Thousands of extras, enormous sweeping crane charts, loads of
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forestry on fire. It's all there for what's to
11:24
come. It's just huge.
11:26
It's not perfect, I don't think, and I find some of the close of
11:29
action beats quite hard to follow sometimes and don't
11:32
understand what's going on. Gets a little bit muddled for me
11:34
in the middle a bit. But on the whole, I think it's
11:37
an excellent opener for all those reasons I mentioned above.
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Really, really impressive. From Ridley Scott, yeah.
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Yeah, it's like Ridley Scott watch Brave, Hard and Far.
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You know, I thought those final sequences were pretty
11:47
impressive. I'm just going to throw them
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anyway in the 1st 10 minutes. You know, that's how confident
11:51
he is with what he's got with this film.
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And he just does. He just throws it away almost.
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But what I love about it is, is you see the use of tactics so
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you can see the Romans aren't just going to go running
12:01
straight into this German tribe. They've got a plan, and you can
12:04
see that the cavalry, you're advancing, but then you've got
12:08
The Archers behind them firing the flaming owls into the woods.
12:10
And then Maximus and his soldiers are on the other side
12:13
so they can come in behind them. So there's real clarity to their
12:16
plan there, which you don't get in a lot of films like this.
12:19
It's usually just quite chaotic. But not saying I really like
12:21
that once it kicks off or it's just carnage and you're just
12:24
picking out all these details, like Maximus chopping off a
12:27
guy's head with such forces is sword ends up get stuck in the
12:30
tree. Yeah.
12:31
Yeah. It's insane when you consider
12:33
like before this, Ridley Scott's last three films, 1492 white
12:37
squaw in gig and you'll just say right, OK, he's back.
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OK, this is really at its best, he's back.
12:44
The only thing that annoys me slightly I wish that better
12:47
extras because you can see some of the extras in this aren't
12:50
great and the the liberties standing around and laughing
12:53
because they don't realise the cameras on them.
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Really. Right.
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I don't notice that, yeah. I won't point out exactly when
12:58
because it does foil, but yeah that annoys me.
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In this sequence as well, you know, Maximus pet dog, which is
13:03
meant to be a wolf, but they couldn't get a wolf in the
13:05
country because of the rabies law, so they couldn't import any
13:08
wolves into the UK. So that I get a dog that looked
13:10
like a wolf and I think the dog's absolutely fantastic,
13:14
called Kite, does everything he needs to do and you're just
13:17
worried, I guess, how's he going to keep up with them horses?
13:19
But he manages obviously absolute legend.
13:23
But he was an also another famous screen dog.
13:26
He wasn't the Littlest Hobo. He was in fact Robbie Jackson's
13:29
dog Wellard in EastEnders for a few years, if you can imagine.
13:33
Oh wow. From Russell Crowe to Dean
13:35
Gaffney, Yeah, exactly. What a kick in the teeth that
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is. Disgusting.
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Speaking of Maximus pets, actually you don't want his
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breastplate on his armor. He has two horses engraved.
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He tells us later that they're called Argento and Scarto.
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But do you know why they're called that?
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I don't. I do know this.
13:54
Is it because they're translated to Silver and Trigger and Silver
14:02
was the lone Rangers horse and Trigger was Roy Rogers horse?
14:07
Very good, yeah. Wow, is that right?
14:09
In Latin silver, that's correct. In silver is argento and trigger
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is scotto. There's.
14:15
Nothing a little bit of like here, which is one of the really
14:18
iconic lines of the film where Maximus sisters troops strength
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and honour because he's briefing them and that actually that
14:23
wasn't in the script, that was something improvised by Crow on
14:26
the deer. Yeah, that's great that it was
14:28
originally wanted to say in Latin as well, but Ridley Scott
14:31
said it sounded much better in English, so he said it in
14:32
English all. Right.
14:35
We're talking about there, about the forest fires, about
14:36
everything going absolutely ape shit and just everything burning
14:39
down. And you just think, well, how
14:40
they're going to get away with that.
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Just turn it real forest, just burn it down.
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But Ridley Scott got quite lucky and it was filmed in Bourne
14:46
Woods in Surrey. And I could have sworn this was
14:48
like the Lake District, a Yorkshire Dales or somewhere
14:51
because it looks really familiar.
14:52
It just like it looks like I've seen that place before, but it's
14:55
that kind of massive land. And the Royal Forestry
14:57
Commission, it's slated the area for deforestation.
15:00
So really, Scott just rang them up and said I can get rid of
15:03
that for you. I can burn it to the fucking
15:04
ground. And they were like, yeah, go for
15:06
it. Yeah.
15:07
Perfect. Yeah, we'll go.
15:09
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense because the scale and
15:11
destruction, must say is just ridiculous.
15:13
Seems like half the woods on fire.
15:14
So good to know Scott wasn't just burning down random forests
15:18
without any. Permission.
15:18
No. It's so good.
15:20
Imagine having that responsibility, though.
15:21
It's like we've got this massive amount of forest, What do you
15:23
want to do with it? You're standing there as a
15:25
director with all these extras and you're kind of going, I
15:27
don't really know, But Scott goes in, tear that down, set
15:30
that on fire, set him on fire. That's amazing.
15:33
He just knows exactly what he wants.
15:35
So as actually openers go, this is up there as one of the most
15:38
spectacular. It's up there.
15:40
Yeah, easy. Add my signal.
15:44
Unleash hell. After the huge spectacle of that
15:47
opening, we're into the other side of Gladiator, the family
15:50
drama. Yeah.
15:51
So after meeting Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, played by
15:54
Richard Harris, and his scheming children Commodus and Lucilla,
15:57
played by Joaquin Phoenix and Connie Nielsen, we find our
16:00
Marcus Aurelius wants Maximus to become emperor.
16:03
Commodus doesn't hear the news particularly well.
16:05
He murdered his father and all as Maximus, his wife and son to
16:09
be executed. Yeah, what a bastard.
16:13
Piece of shit bastard. Did I miss the battle?
16:16
He's horrible. And as it builds and you you see
16:22
the the job that what in Phoenix has to do, you can see why he
16:26
was so nervous to do it because he has to play a complete
16:29
asshole. And if you don't hate him in
16:31
this film, then you're probably dead.
16:35
But this does set up the pace of the film, which I do have some
16:38
issues with as it goes on later. Because you have these big, big,
16:41
big set pieces and then it's candlelit in a tent for like 20
16:44
minutes and just slow dialogue. And just what about this?
16:47
And wow, what about that? And then he strangles his
16:51
dialogue. What?
16:52
So where is this going? And then it builds the story
16:54
again. And then you get a set piece and
16:55
then it goes down and it goes up.
16:56
And that's the genius of it. And if you can tap into that
16:59
rhythm, then it really works. But I think Scott is really,
17:02
he's, he's really confident putting this sequence in because
17:05
it is drawn out and it could be quite boring for people.
17:08
But I think, you know, you put Richard Harris in there, you put
17:10
White and Phoenix in there, you put Russell Crowe in there.
17:12
And that absolutely nailed that pace because of the level and
17:15
the weight of the performances. I think the performances in this
17:18
sequence especially are really overlooked.
17:20
I think it's fucking brilliant. It is powerful, isn't it?
17:23
Richard Harris is always great and in just a few scenes he
17:26
leaves a big impression here. Really memorable is Marcus
17:29
Aurelius. It's awful when he goes.
17:32
We hate comedies immediately. Like you said, Wesley.
17:34
That's obviously the intention and I think it's probably the
17:36
key plot points of the entire film.
17:38
The writing is good, the performances are all excellent,
17:41
so it is really good. But do you think they've missed
17:44
a trick by not making Maximus and Commodus brothers?
17:48
I know the caller to the brothers and Maximus calls
17:50
Marcus Aurelius father, but I mean like actual brothers.
17:54
Compass is the older one who should get power but he gets
17:56
overlooked in favour of Maximus. It could have been they wouldn't
17:58
have to change anything at all in the film, but I think it
18:00
would have a lot more power than what it does.
18:03
I know the purists would say, well Marcus really it's only had
18:05
two children come with us and the seller, but they change so
18:08
much else that's in there. It's not winning any awards for
18:11
historical accuracy anyway. It feels to me like they did
18:13
miss out a little bit there maybe.
18:16
I don't think so, because then Mark, because then Maximus
18:19
wouldn't have that amazing back story of home.
18:21
He wouldn't, he wouldn't live in Spain with his wife and his
18:23
farm. You know, he's got his own life
18:25
and he's, he's sacrificed enough for Rome and for the empire and
18:29
for Marcus Aurelius and he just wants to go home.
18:31
He wouldn't, you wouldn't have that angle if he was connected
18:34
by blood. I guess what Marcus really is
18:36
trying to do is make him his son.
18:38
So I think that's even more powerful because they're trying
18:40
to pull him in and he wants to go.
18:42
I love that shot you get with Richard Harris on the hill, like
18:45
watching this battle unfold. And he's really slow push, that
18:49
slow push in. But you notice he only relaxes
18:51
when he hears Maximus like cheer in victory.
18:53
And he's like Frankfurt Maximus is alive.
18:56
Because if he gets killed in that battle, you know already
18:58
it's screwed because it's going to be commodious.
19:00
It comes after. So I love that little, that
19:02
little character moment. And like you're saying, the
19:05
introduction of Commodus is great.
19:07
So in terms of how dramatic it is when he kills them, I think
19:09
it's absolutely fantastic. And Joshua's Phoenix would turn
19:12
that intensity down a little bit just because I struggle to make
19:15
out what he's saying in that scene where he's like, really
19:18
choked up. And he's just like, not
19:19
everywhere. Like, what is he saying?
19:21
I can't quite make it out. Like there's something on my
19:23
heart for 1000 years, So what? What?
19:27
See, I understand you. I don't understand Joaquin
19:28
Phoenix. I should have got the part.
19:34
And then in regards to Maximus playing, for me that's one of
19:38
the clunky bits of the film because it it does make sense
19:40
pot wise, but that's a lot of ride and Maximus has got to do
19:43
to get to his family. I mean, he's basically got a
19:45
ride through the entirety of France, which I think I think
19:48
it's supposed to take him about a month, but that's done in
19:50
lively like a minute or two screen time that just think that
19:53
doesn't quite fit together quite well.
19:55
That's the thing there because, yeah, I don't know how they get
19:58
there so far ahead of them. Yeah.
19:59
Because he knows what's at stake, so he wouldn't stop.
20:02
No. But overall, the the drama of
20:04
it's really. Good.
20:05
Yeah, that when he's when he gets away, though, that fight
20:07
sequence when he's like, you know, frost, sometimes it makes
20:10
the blade stick. I love the way the wait'll dawn
20:12
as well. It's so dramatic.
20:14
Ride till dawn, then kill him. Don't just take him outside the
20:16
tent. Kill him now.
20:17
That's miles easier. Actually, just kill him in the
20:20
in the tent. It's warmer.
20:21
Just kill him now. He wants him dead right till
20:25
dawn, because it's really dramatic.
20:26
And then, you know, stab him in the in the spine, in the back of
20:29
the head. And there's that fantastic bit
20:31
where Harris kind of breaks character a little bit and
20:34
becomes a lot more reserved and just wants to know more about
20:37
Maximus and more about his home and why he wants to go back
20:39
there. And it's just seems so
20:41
heartfelt. And I've just read up on this,
20:44
obviously doing research for this and found out that it was
20:46
all ad libbed by Crow. And he's describing his actual
20:48
home in Australia. And he's like, you know, olives
20:51
on the left and it smells like Jasmine in the morning.
20:53
It's just, you just tell like he's missing it.
20:56
And it's just like, it's, it's like, you know, goosebumpy.
20:58
You just tell he's just got a real affection for it.
21:01
And that's him actually describing his own home in
21:03
Australia, which, to be honest, sounds fucking perfect.
21:07
It really does. He's like wild ponies galloping
21:10
about. Wonderful.
21:14
Some of it might have been a little bit, you know, you know,
21:16
on top of what actually happened.
21:19
And and I know what I said there about Phoenix being a bit too
21:21
intense in that scene for me, but, you know, he was, he was
21:24
genuinely a bit intense in that Segan's face squeezing Richard
21:28
Howe's death because he got so into it when they said could
21:32
Phoenix just passed out. Really completely sparked out.
21:35
Yeah. Just got too far, got far too
21:37
into it. You can tell the one he's
21:39
squeezing his head and he's just like, he's going to pop, he's
21:44
going to pop, breathe, he's going to pop.
21:46
Intense man Phoenix, isn't he? He was really wondering, to be
21:49
fair. Yeah.
21:50
Yeah. So a couple of big, big and very
21:54
different moments to start off Gladiator.
21:56
The opening battle shows us the might of the Roman Empire, and
21:58
then we're brought right into the family issues at the heart
22:00
of the story. I think it's all pretty
22:02
effective. No, massively.
22:04
Oh, really effective. You know exactly where you are
22:06
with this straight away the. Director.
22:14
We've mentioned him already, and the director of Gladiator was
22:17
Ridley Scott, no stranger to epic classics.
22:20
We've talked about him twice previously on our Alien and
22:22
Blade Runner episodes, so check those out if you're not already.
22:26
Very different beast here though in Gladiator.
22:29
So how do we think Ridley does as the director of the film?
22:32
I think he does really well because I think right in his
22:34
wheelhouse with this film, he he's always had that aura,
22:37
hasn't he? For director?
22:38
He could like pick up and take back in time to the 50s and 60s
22:42
and he would have been right at home making the likes of Ben
22:44
Hur, the 10 Commandments, all those biblical epics.
22:47
That's absolutely the kind thing you could imagine him doing and
22:50
on on this film, I think it goes back to a little bit what we
22:52
said on Alien and and touched on him Blade Runner is that he's
22:55
not someone who's necessarily comfortable with complex
22:58
storytelling or moral and character ambiguity or anything
23:02
like that. He's he's much more comfortable
23:04
with big, broad storytelling strokes.
23:07
And that is absolutely what Gladiator is.
23:09
You know, there's no Shades of Grey in this film at all.
23:11
It's one really heroic guy, one really villainous guy, a grudge
23:15
between them that's really simple to understand, but it's
23:19
emotionally relevant at the same time.
23:21
Getting revenge, he murdered family, and I think that's
23:24
something that Scott can just connect with, and he knows how
23:26
to deal with those big issues. And he's absolutely fine with
23:29
that because he's not getting sidetracked and little fiddly
23:32
bits of plot or murky characterization.
23:35
So all the pivotal plot points, all the big emotional beats in
23:38
this story, he lands them really, really well.
23:41
And obviously we'll we'll talk about what he does visually in a
23:43
minute. But yeah, in terms of
23:44
storytelling, in terms of plot, I think this is possibly the
23:47
best he's ever done, just telling a story very simply but
23:51
very effectively. Yeah, I mean, this is right over
23:54
Scott St. isn't it? Epic blockbuster set in an
23:56
ancient period of history. That's him through and through,
23:59
and I think he does a really good job as well.
24:01
I thought I've mentioned it earlier, but I think Gladiator
24:03
has two sides to it. There's the enormous big scale
24:06
spectacle on one side and then the close personal drama on the
24:09
other. Two very different types of
24:11
storytelling and I think Scott does them both really, really
24:13
well. In the film, we said that the
24:15
spectacle comes in the very first sequence and doesn't
24:17
really let up with numerous gladiator battles that just get
24:20
bigger and bigger when we reach the Colosseum.
24:23
Then there's the dysfunctional family stuff that powers the
24:25
narrative, the relationships between commodious Lucilla
24:27
Maximus. Scott handles that well too.
24:30
I'll sell another podcast about Ridley Scott films.
24:32
I don't think he's a great storyteller.
24:34
Sometimes great visuals see that I'm Gladiator, obviously, but
24:37
sometimes I feel like he makes poor choices that don't make
24:39
sense in the narrative. Sometimes.
24:41
I don't think that's the case here though.
24:43
I think the narrative is strong and Scott tells it well, and
24:46
coupled with his talent for the visual it produces this this
24:49
film, I think everything that Scott tells a story well, it
24:51
results in a classic. I'm Gladiator is no different.
24:54
Yeah, I saw this when I was 19 and he overtook everybody is
24:58
like me, favorite director for about 3 weeks.
25:00
Once I'd seen this, I thought it was just for that.
25:03
That was that was like, that's it.
25:04
I can't wait to see what he does now.
25:05
Everything kind of come together.
25:07
I loved Ailey and I love Blade Runner and you know, and it just
25:11
it started to sit with me of like, this is a directors film.
25:14
It is a directors film. It's got actors in it, it's got
25:17
set pieces in it. But this is just his his brush
25:21
constantly just over this canvas.
25:23
And you can see it in every shot.
25:25
I mean, look at everything John Matheson has shot before us
25:27
since nothing looks as good as this.
25:29
And as every DP that he works with, nothing looks as good as
25:32
this. Look at everything Russell
25:33
Crowe's been in after. He hasn't been this good, you
25:36
know? And Richard Harris and Oliver
25:37
Reid had to die because they couldn't do.
25:40
Any better than this had to die. Sentenced to death.
25:46
Because the distort, you know what?
25:49
That's good enough for my last film.
25:51
And I think if Ridley Scott made nothing after this, which he
25:53
shouldn't have done, let's be honest, it would have been like,
25:57
yeah, he's one of the greatest directors of all time.
26:00
But he kept pushing it and kept going for it.
26:01
But this is where everything, you know, when everything just
26:04
seems to kind of like, click together and it just it, it all
26:07
just forms perfectly. And it's 2 1/2 hours.
26:10
It doesn't feel like 2 1/2 hours.
26:12
It kind of flies over. You are complete.
26:14
You are engaged all the way through it.
26:16
It is a start to finish, an epic film on a really realistic
26:21
scale. He was at a point of his career
26:23
with Gladiator. That I think is the zenith of
26:26
his career. Everything else, he was kind of
26:28
hiding behind the visuals. Like you guys have said, this is
26:31
the one where everything comes together.
26:32
This is like Ridley Scott's Rubik's Cube, where everything
26:35
is in the right place. Well, DreamWorks always wanted
26:38
Ridley Scott to be the man to helm Gladiator.
26:40
Understandably it is right up his Blvd. like we said, but he
26:43
wasn't certain at first. Have you heard about this?
26:45
Yeah, he did. He had to be persuaded by Walter
26:47
F Parks, who was head of DreamWorks and Douglas Waku.
26:50
You'll probably notice his name on the credits because he's a
26:52
producer and they went to see because the one of them and to
26:55
persuade him. The short of a French painting
26:57
from 1872, it's called Plates a Verse or it's by a guy called
27:02
Jean Leon Jerome, and the title means thumbs down and it depicts
27:06
a gladiator standing over a beaten opponent.
27:08
Apparently that's already Scott needed.
27:09
He used to it in there. Yeah, you can see that painting
27:12
online if you're interested. And not that I couldn't know
27:14
anything about 19th century French art, but it wasn't quite
27:17
when I was expecting, but I looked at it.
27:19
It is a great painting though. No, it's fantastic.
27:21
I've got it over me fireplace like I seriously have.
27:26
I believe you don't worry. He wrote, he wrote in the Ridley
27:29
Scott's office and put it on his desk in front of him.
27:30
He said if you've got 10 minutes, he's like, yeah, I've
27:32
got 10 minutes and put it on his desk in front of him.
27:34
Then Ridley Scott looked at the paint and looked at him and
27:36
went, oh, I'm fucked, I've got to do this now.
27:40
I can't say no to that. Well, one of the major
27:43
challenges Scott faced with the film was tackling the task of
27:46
creating a believable and credible ancient Rome.
27:49
Gladiator was far from the first time Hollywood had tackled it.
27:51
Classics like Spartacus, Ben Hur, Cleopatra, countless others
27:55
hadn't done so decades earlier. But this was the first time
27:58
anybody recreated the Empire with modern sensibilities in
28:00
digital technology. So Scott was already a proven
28:04
master of world building by this point.
28:06
But this was a big undertaking for anybody.
28:08
So how well do you think he did and his crew to realize the
28:11
ancient roam on the big screen? It's 97% perfect.
28:16
You've worked it out I've. Worked it out.
28:21
That's my answer. Matt, how much percent was
28:25
yours? 99 I've obviously missed a
28:30
couple of things I worst he found.
28:31
Yeah, I think the scale of it, I think what he brings to it and
28:34
the fact that the, the the built the Colosseum and he said it was
28:36
too small so that to extend it because he just by this, this
28:40
just doesn't have the scale, It doesn't have the scope.
28:42
They built the streets, the everything.
28:44
Everything in this film was made for it.
28:45
Even the armoury, even the the costumes.
28:48
Everything was made. Nothing was found or nothing was
28:51
reused from a different production.
28:52
That's why I think this feels so genuinely itself.
28:55
It just feels like it contained film and when it comes to like
28:58
them sets, I mean, even Richard Harris said he walks on the many
29:02
different cinemas film sets. He walked on this one.
29:04
He just thought, Jeez, this just takes some getting used to to
29:07
absorb it. You know, it just the Zanzibar
29:10
set that just built an on top of an existing town.
29:13
And just to make that even bigger, when you can just walk
29:16
through the streets of Rome, you know, there's big feet from
29:19
statues, the the, the Colossus and Nero statue that was outside
29:22
of the Colosseum, just that that foot is there, which is perfect.
29:26
And it's just, it's just there because he wants to be able to
29:28
put that camera wherever he wants to put it and have that
29:30
freedom and tell that story. And he knows exactly what he
29:33
needs to do. And I think you learned a lot of
29:34
this from Blair and I learned a lot of this from Alien in
29:37
building them worlds. And he just took what he learned
29:39
from those and made it bigger. There is some questionable CGI,
29:43
which I will get to, but it's very questionable.
29:46
And it's about two to 3% of the film where I'm like, oh, that's
29:49
not necessary. But most of it is just flawless.
29:52
I mean, you kind of tell even now, 21 years later when they
29:55
walk into that Coliseum for the first time on the big screen,
29:58
you can't tell it's so good. Yeah, I know that Scott was very
30:02
keen on avoiding what he thought is the swords and sandials
30:04
cliches, so things like people lounging about, eating grapes,
30:08
drinking wine from goblets. He wanted the film to have a
30:10
realism, and they went all out to achieve that.
30:13
The costume designer was called Janti Yet, and she and her team
30:16
created over 10,000 costumes for the cast.
30:18
Next dress and almost 30,000 pieces of armor were created
30:22
just for the movie. Yeah.
30:23
Most of the Rome set scenes were filmed in Malta, and that
30:26
included building a replica of the Colosseum, like you
30:28
mentioned, Westie. It was 52 feet tall.
30:30
It took seven months to build, and it cost $1 million.
30:34
I think some of the digital effects haven't aged that well.
30:38
Establishing shots of the Colosseum and the Service
30:40
Maximus don't look great by today's standards, but it was
30:43
state-of-the-art at the time, so that's easy to forgive.
30:46
All in all, I think it's an incredible depiction of the
30:48
ancient Rome, and that's one of the main reasons I keep going
30:50
back to the film, to be honest. Just to say that on the big
30:52
screen, yeah. Well, you, you've said it there,
30:55
John, it's world building and that's the other thing that's
30:57
completely in in Scots wheelhouse.
30:59
You know, it's something he's always been masterful at.
31:02
And I think what's really impressive is he goes from
31:05
building the world. So you see an alien and Blade
31:07
Runner, which is a lot of set design, a lot of matte
31:09
paintings, a lot of kind of old school trickery.
31:11
And now he is a big vast CGI epic, which, you know, combined
31:15
with some sets as well, but he he handles that pretty
31:18
seamlessly. I, I do agree with you guys.
31:20
There's some shots that have an H Well, they're not great.
31:23
There's there's one where the first arrive in Rome and Maximus
31:27
and the slaves are looking up at the Colosseum.
31:28
The green screen isn't really good there.
31:30
That looks really dodgy, that one.
31:32
But for the most part, it's still really detailed and it's
31:36
really convincing. And you do feel like you've been
31:38
transported back in time, which is what the film needs to do is
31:41
you, you feel like you can almost like smell those streets,
31:44
you know, you can kind of feel the dust blowing on your face.
31:47
So, you know, and then you throw in those action sequences, which
31:50
are absolutely massive, and he's like a little kid who's got a
31:53
Lego set and he's just building this world and like having
31:56
little fights with the figures. So like, for the vast majority
32:00
of it, it's so well done. Well, Gladiator won best pitcher
32:04
at the Oscars and Scott was also nominated for best Director.
32:08
Do you know who won that year? It was Soderbergh, wasn't it?
32:11
Steven Soderberg. Yeah, for Traffic, Yeah.
32:14
It also worked out pretty well for Ridley Scott the other way
32:17
as well. So Giannina Fascio who plays
32:19
Maximus wife in the film Scott Maurita in 2015.
32:23
Yeah. Yeah, so Oscar is a classic
32:26
movie and bagging a beautiful wife.
32:29
Not bad for a lot from South Shields.
32:31
Is it alright for himself only? A.
32:40
Big name director, I'm Gladiator, a big scale
32:42
production, and the stars we see on the screen were all pretty
32:45
big too. We're going to mention all of
32:47
our reading a little more detail later on, but for now, we're
32:50
going all in on the access with the two biggest roles in the
32:52
film. Joaquin Phoenix as amoral
32:55
emperor comedies is coming, but obviously we're starting with
32:58
the Gladiator himself, Russell Crowe as our main character,
33:01
Maximus. Sounds great.
33:03
Yeah. So Russell Crowe is Maximus
33:05
Decimus Mauridius, a Roman general.
33:07
At the start of the film, we follow his journey from husband
33:10
to a murdered wife, father to a murdered son, through the
33:13
gladiatorial arenas, through having his vengeance and killing
33:16
commodities. At the end of the film, his name
33:18
is Gladiator and Maximus and Spaniard.
33:22
And Decimus and the radius. Whatever you call him, what do
33:27
we think of him and Russell Crowe in the role?
33:29
I think Russell Crowe at this point in 2000, couldn't have
33:33
been more perfect for this role. I think you need someone who's
33:37
got the the build but also has got the emotion, who's also got
33:42
the ACT and ability, and someone who you can believe to be a
33:45
general. Then at the same time you could
33:47
believe to be a gladiator who at the same time you believe could
33:49
boost the morale of thousands and thousands of men.
33:52
You're just like, yeah, you're totally.
33:54
But I don't know anyone else at that time.
33:56
And this was at that cusp where it was just fading.
33:59
And then you had the new generation come in just after
34:03
2000. And I could, I can't say someone
34:05
like Chris Hemsworth doing this or anyone like the new, the new
34:11
kind of vibe. It's just, it's just like the
34:14
rock. Do you know what I mean?
34:15
It would be the rock and I wouldn't it just be like,
34:18
fucking hell, man, It'd be shit. Be set in the jungle if it was
34:21
the rock. Well, it would be obviously, but
34:24
on some kind of boat. But yeah, like, I can't imagine
34:34
anyone at that time in 2000 who had this kind of charisma, who
34:37
had this, who was relatively unknown at that point.
34:41
I mean, you had LA Confidential, you had the insider.
34:43
He'd just done the insider and then lost all of the weight to
34:46
do this. But he lost the weight.
34:48
He didn't go to a personal trainer.
34:49
He didn't lift everything. It's not like the guys that were
34:51
300 where they look chiseled as fuck.
34:54
He's just, it looks attainable. So that makes you kind of go,
34:57
yeah, this looks natural, like he's naturally part of this role
35:00
and everything works. Just the way he delivers the
35:02
dialogue, just his accent, just everything about him, the way he
35:06
fits the costumes, just everything about this
35:08
performance for me totally, totally works.
35:11
I think it is Russell Crowe's best performance.
35:14
I think just from everything, just the physicality, just the
35:17
the way he delivers the lines of dialogue, let's let's be honest,
35:20
could really be really hammy and crap and just a bit over the top
35:24
if it's overplayed. And there's that amazing bit
35:26
when he's with Connie Nielsen towards the end of the film and
35:28
he's just kind of like you meet her again and he's like, as you
35:30
wept for your father. And I just think he was the
35:33
perfect actor at that time to pull this off.
35:35
I cannot think of anyone else who could have done it.
35:38
He's he's absolutely perfect in this film.
35:41
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. As a character, I think he's
35:44
well written Maximus. He has a defined personality,
35:47
stoic, brave, vulnerable, and he has a back story and strong
35:50
motivation throughout the story. Vengeance for his murdered
35:52
family. I mean, it's hardly massively
35:54
original or inspired stuff, but it's there.
35:56
It's not for it to work in the film.
35:58
Yeah. What makes the character sing
36:00
for me, though, is like Westies. Is Wax lyrical about the casting
36:03
of Russell Draw keeping from Maximus to life and makes him
36:06
feel unique and iconic? Firstly, he does look great in
36:09
the part. He looks perfect as Maximus and
36:11
I like Whistle. Crow's an actor.
36:12
I think he's excellent generally, and somewhere I think
36:15
he usually excels is in his line delivery.
36:17
I think he's great at delivering important, powerful lines and
36:20
making them land. And there's Lord of them in
36:22
Gladiator. Strength and honor we mentioned.
36:25
Husband to a murdered wife we mentioned Are you not
36:27
entertained? I will have my vengeance.
36:29
All iconic, all delivered by Russell Crowe in the same film.
36:34
And then when the action sequence has come, he's not
36:36
found one thing at all. Doesn't look out of his depth
36:38
for a second on the battlefield or fighting to the death in the
36:41
Colosseum. So yeah, iconic character.
36:43
And Russell Crowe, I think, is perfectly cast as Maximus.
36:47
Yeah, absolute agreement with you too, because the main thing
36:50
I've seen him before. This was earlier confidential.
36:53
I think if you go back and watch that film, I think it's really
36:55
obvious, right? Ridley Scott wanted him because
36:58
it's all about the attitude that he brings, just that like
37:00
complete self belief he's got in himself that he won't back down
37:05
to anyone and he won't accept defeat.
37:07
And it's exactly what Wesley is saying.
37:08
He's not like built like a big man mountain.
37:11
He's obviously in shape, but that's like all he needs to be
37:15
because he's just got so much confidence in himself on the
37:18
battlefield. He doesn't need to be like, you
37:20
know, 6 foot 8 or whatever. And one thing that's always
37:24
stuck on my mind when this film came out was when Empire
37:27
magazine reviewed it and they described him as Russell Crowe
37:31
was clearly born in a hard month, in a hard year, during a
37:35
freak outbreak of total hardness.
37:37
And I think, you know what? That's just the best description
37:39
of Maximus I've still ever heard, because he is, he's just
37:43
hard. And he just brings that on
37:45
screen. But I like how he just brings in
37:48
other bits as well. He's not just like a meathead.
37:50
You can see he's intelligent, how he rallies his troops.
37:53
You can see he's a sensitive guy.
37:55
You've mentioned there about the journey that he's on, which is
37:57
to get vengeance. And you see it in the quieter
37:59
moments in the film where he's just in the cell by himself and
38:02
he's he's just, he's just hiding in the corner.
38:05
He's not strolling around the man like he is when he was a
38:08
general. He's in the corner and he's
38:10
grieving because he's taking that moment moment for himself.
38:13
And I think Russell Core is really good at bringing those
38:15
moments out as well. So yeah, he clearly brings the
38:19
physicality that the film needs, but he also brings a lot more.
38:21
He brings a lot of emotional depth to Maximus and that has a
38:24
lot to do with why this film works as well as it does.
38:27
Yeah, there's that fantastic moment, isn't it, when just the
38:29
coming out of the Colosseum and they're coming down on the
38:31
they've just, he's just sported comedies and he's surrounded by
38:34
like 6 foot, 26 foot 4 huge wrestling guys.
38:38
And he just walks off the lift and he's got his helmet with him
38:40
and he just commands that, that whole frame, and he's tiny in
38:45
it. But you can just see that's the
38:46
guy right there. He's totally got it.
38:48
It's brilliant. Well, Ridley Scott cast Russell
38:50
Crowe after seeing him in Rhomba Stumba actually in 1992
38:54
Australian drama and said he was someone worth watching.
38:56
Yeah, but as ever, they were their names for the part before
38:59
Crow was cast. Have you heard any of those
39:02
names? Mel Gibson, I've heard.
39:05
Yeah, Gibson was in there. Yeah, Mel Gibson was off of the
39:07
role and turned it down. Gibson says he was too old to
39:10
playback Maximus, and Ridley Scott actually denies he was
39:12
ever even off of the pot. Could you see it though, Gibson?
39:16
Yeah, that makes sense. I think it would just be a
39:19
rehash of Braveheart, wouldn't? I mean, it was 43 at the time
39:21
and I don't think you 2. Are you two older?
39:23
43? Maybe because we're 40 and I
39:25
just, I'm defiant. Also considered Hugh Jackman and
39:30
Antonio Banderas. Banderas would have been
39:33
disgusting. Yeah.
39:37
Stick to Zorro. Made more sense as a Spaniard,
39:39
but that's about it. Imagine Bad Eras is Maximus and
39:42
then Russell Crowe is Zorro. It'll be amazing.
39:45
Russell, Russell Zorro. Well, thankfully after seeing
39:49
Rhombus, Tomba Scott did off on the part of Russell Crowe.
39:52
There was a bit of a carry on in getting Crow to sign on though.
39:55
Have you heard much about that? Yeah, Crow said that when he was
39:58
first approached, the script was so bad that the producers
40:01
wouldn't send it to him just in case he didn't like it.
40:07
So imagine how bad that must be. It's had like 3 rewrites at that
40:12
point. And like Ridley Scott, he said I
40:14
just have to meet with Ridley Scott instead.
40:15
And he was worked with Michael Mann on the Insider.
40:18
And Michael Mann said you should really take this Ridley Scott
40:21
project a little bit more seriously.
40:23
Go meet with him and see what he's got to say.
40:25
So he met with Scott and Crow said Ridley's pitch was
40:29
basically, we've got $100 million.
40:31
It's an ancient Rome, You're a general and you're being
40:36
directed by me. So that's like, yeah, OK, that's
40:42
absolutely fine. Directed by Ridley Scott, 100
40:44
million Abbott Roman general the I turned into a gladiator.
40:46
Fucking brilliant. What a great pitch.
40:48
That's all you need. You've been directed by me.
40:50
No lower self esteem problems for Ridley Scott.
40:52
Is it bloody? Hell yeah, None at all.
40:54
Imagine if you weren't, though. And he sat there.
40:56
I've been directed by somebody. Or what you doing here?
41:01
Well, after all that, Russell Crowe was in and playing
41:04
Maximus, so what's your favorite moment of his in the film?
41:07
My favorite moment is when he kind of goes back to his his
41:12
original state of mind after he's been a slave and he's seen
41:15
his family die, which it's incredibly powerful that moment,
41:18
by the way, it could have just been a little bit of his sob
41:19
fest, but it's just it's just so powerful.
41:22
You can. I still see them on the cross
41:24
even though you see the feet. It's awful.
41:25
Yeah. I think it's just so powerful
41:27
the way that's delivered and they don't hold back.
41:29
And it's just, you know, this complete emotion.
41:31
And I think that's unreal. So you see him strip bare.
41:34
You see him become a slave. You see him not care.
41:36
You seem to see he just wants to get beat down.
41:38
He wants to die. And then all of a sudden, he
41:40
gets this chance from Proximo to win the crowd.
41:42
He's in the Colosseum, and he's surrounded by people.
41:44
And he's surrounded by, you know, these fellow slaves, these
41:47
fellow gladiators. And he asks if anyone's been in
41:49
the army. People have actually served with
41:51
him. You can help me.
41:52
And he rallies the troops together.
41:53
And the way that he puts everything together in that
41:56
first fight in the Colosseum totally makes it for me.
41:59
It's just so fucking entertaining.
42:02
And the guys who would just go off by themselves are instantly
42:05
just rinsed out. Just just an arrow.
42:08
Bang, you're fucked. Bang, you're fucked.
42:10
And then, you know, he goes and saves his mates.
42:13
I get back in here, former column Diamond, and everything
42:16
starts fucking up. Then he gets on the horse and he
42:18
starts, ah, come on. It's like, yeah, he's back.
42:21
He's a general, but a gladiator at the same time.
42:23
It's like all of his ability and all of his emotion mesh at that
42:26
one time. And that's exactly what you want
42:28
to see from the character, and it's perfectly realized.
42:30
It's brilliant. Well, mine follows on from that
42:33
really, and it it is probably the most famous moment in the
42:35
film. I think even if you haven't seen
42:37
Gladiator, you know what this moment is.
42:39
It is when he finally reveals himself to Commodus.
42:42
Come on, he's just been in the in the gladiator uniform so far.
42:45
But oh, this moment, I mean the musics.
42:47
Amazing. The tension is ramped up because
42:50
you know he can't get out of this.
42:51
He is going to have to take his mask off.
42:53
So what's he going to do? And just the way he turns round
42:56
and he just moves slowly forward.
42:59
My name is Maximus Decimus Mauritius, Commander of the
43:02
Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant
43:07
to the true Emperor Marcus Aurelius, father to a murdered
43:12
son, husband to a murdered wife, and I will have my vengeance in
43:18
this life or the next. The speech itself on paper could
43:22
be just absolute drivel if it's not delivered right, Craw knocks
43:27
it out of the park. I mean, it's just goosebumps
43:29
watching him deliver that dialogue and the look of fury on
43:33
his face. Like, like, you should be
43:35
seeing, like, little wisps of steam coming out of his ear just
43:38
because he's, like, keeping that anger within him because he
43:40
knows he can't kill comedies right now.
43:42
And also, you've got to say Joaquin Phoenix here.
43:44
I've never seen anyone so convinced me.
43:46
Petraea, man, who's shitting himself.
43:48
He clearly is. Then.
43:50
Yeah, the moment is absolutely massive, and it's iconic.
43:54
And it's all down to how Crude delivers that dialogue.
43:57
Yeah, I think some people have a problem with that moment, but
43:59
it's real movie magic for me. Come on.
44:01
One of those moments that never happens in real life.
44:03
Nobody talks like that. But doing films all the time and
44:06
when it's done well, like, yeah, it's just fantastic.
44:09
Yeah, I mean, we're going to talk about the script later on,
44:11
and we can say, you know, whatever we want about this.
44:12
But I mean, crew actually said to William Nicholson, who wrote
44:15
the script, like, your lines are garbage, but I'm the greatest
44:18
actor in the world and I can make even garbage sound good.
44:21
And that's exactly what he does here.
44:23
It's absolutely fucking brilliant.
44:25
And then Nicholson later on actually said, yeah, maybe my
44:28
lines were garbage, but fucking Ali's absolutely nailed it, to
44:31
be fair. I know that Russell Crowe really
44:34
threw himself into the role as well.
44:36
Over the course of his action scenes, he lost all feeling in
44:38
his right forefinger. For two years, he aggravated his
44:41
Achilles tendon, broke a football, cracked a hip bone,
44:44
and popped a few bicep tendons out of their sockets.
44:46
So he was in the wars of it. Yeah, and then the opening
44:48
sequence as well, all of them wounds on his face are
44:50
absolutely real, like stitches in his face.
44:52
So as he was riding the horse, he went through a thicket and
44:54
just completely just tore him a bit.
44:56
So like all the stitches in his face are real.
44:58
Like that's all in there for real.
45:00
He loved it. Well, finally on Russell Crowe,
45:04
we have a question from Patreon. So a benefit of being a TRM
45:08
patron is that we answer your questions on the show and David
45:11
McEwan strength. No, not Dave.
45:13
Hello, David. Davies taking the down the
45:17
street level by asking OK Crow Spaniard versus Gibson's William
45:22
Wallace, Who wins? Don't come to me first on this.
45:26
Don't put me in. Don't put me in this situation
45:30
of two of my favorite characters of all time.
45:32
Is this a is this a face off? Is this?
45:35
Is this in the Colosseum? I need I need more details.
45:38
In the Colosseum I think. Maximus would win because he's
45:42
used to being in the Colosseum and William Wallace's sword is
45:45
far too big to swing around. Yeah, I agree.
45:54
I think just because you know Wallace, he's going to come
45:57
charging Adam because that's kind of his main thing.
45:59
But Maximus, he's got the military training.
46:02
He would have some move in his locker.
46:04
He would just have the coolness that I don't think William
46:07
Wallace would have in this situation.
46:08
So yeah, another vote for Maximus.
46:10
Do you not think that William Wallace would just be at the
46:12
other end of the Colosseum with just a massive stick hold?
46:17
Hold now dead. Bearing his ass Adam first.
46:24
Yeah. Just throwing rocks at him for
46:27
ages. For his role as Maximus, Russell
46:35
Crowe was nominated for and won Best Actor at the Oscars.
46:39
Yeah, and it kind of pulled him to be one of the biggest movie
46:41
stars of his generation, with the big movies following like A
46:44
Beautiful Mind, Master and Commander, Cinderella Man,
46:47
American Gangster, Les Miserables and lots of other
46:49
films. Never quite hit the heights of
46:52
Gladiator again though, I don't think.
46:54
I don't think so. No came close to master and
46:57
commander. I really like that, but.
46:59
Yeah, that's a great film. Yeah, well, the bad guy to
47:08
Maximus good guy is, of course, Commodus, played by Wacky in
47:11
Phoenix, the son of Marcus Aurelius and rightful Imperial A
47:15
of Rome. He's looked over in favor of
47:16
Maximus, resulting in him murdering his own father and
47:19
becoming emperor before dying, fittingly in the Colosseum,
47:22
fittingly at the hands of Maximus.
47:26
Commodus is not a moral man, and one of our patrons, Robert
47:30
Potwin, thinks he's one of the best villains ever seen on
47:32
screen and wants to know what we think.
47:35
So what are our thoughts on Commodus and Joaquin Phoenix
47:37
playing him? I think he's very much like
47:40
Russell Crowe in that to fit into this film, you can't
47:43
overthink these roles. He can't be subtle, he can't
47:46
look for Shades of Grey and these characters because it's
47:48
not there. You've just got to look at
47:49
what's on the page and fully commit to it.
47:51
And I think that's what Phoenix does, and that's why Comedus is
47:54
such a memorable villain, because he's just, he's slimy,
47:59
he's conniving, he's just a horrible little bastard.
48:01
And it's exactly what this film needs.
48:03
I mean, he's a panto villain, basically.
48:05
He's someone who every time he's on screen, you should Boo and
48:08
you should hear. But that's what the film needs.
48:10
You can't have subtlety here. And I think it's interesting
48:13
that physically he's no match for Maximus, obviously.
48:16
So he's got to be intimidated in a different way.
48:18
He's got to be a threat in a different way.
48:20
So he's actually quite clever. He's really sly.
48:23
He's more clever than the Senators certainly give him
48:25
credit for, which you know, and you see that when he has no
48:28
problem like dispatching all his enemies, when he sets up the
48:31
games to get the public on the side and you know, you just know
48:35
if he's capable of killing his own father, he's capable of
48:38
absolutely anything. And I think Phoenix just kind of
48:41
dives head 1st and all that. And then when you add into that
48:44
the massive like incestuous vibes he has for his sister,
48:48
like you just see, this is one of the vilest characters I've
48:51
ever seen. But like, say, the film is all
48:54
about the broad storytelling and not being ashamed of broad
48:58
storytelling. I think that goes the same for
49:00
the performances. And I think Phoenix is
49:01
absolutely key to that. He's brilliant.
49:05
Well, in doing research for this episode, it didn't surprise me
49:08
to learn that Jack Leeson, who played Joffrey in Game of
49:10
Thrones, said that he largely based Joffrey on Commodus and
49:13
Gladiator. Makes sense?
49:15
I say I wasn't surprised because Joffrey is the best love to hate
49:18
character I've seen on TV and Commodus is one of the best I've
49:20
seen in films. What a bastard.
49:24
Murders Richard Harris. Has Rome's favorite son's entire
49:27
family killed? Threatens to murder his own
49:29
nephew? Wants to have sex with his own
49:31
sister? Has Ollie Reed bummed off?
49:33
It's just not on. It's not.
49:37
I can barely stand to look at him as a character, but that's
49:39
obviously the point. He's a fantastic bad guy.
49:42
All too often when I watch films, and this might say more
49:44
about me, I want the bad guy to win here.
49:47
No death is horrible enough for Commodus, and it's there in the
49:50
script mostly, but a lot of it comes from Phoenix as well.
49:53
He's fantastic. I mean, he pretty much always is
49:56
going on to be a clean is one of the best of his generation and
49:58
he started back in 1985. But Commodus was his big
50:01
breakthrough role. I think this was his chance and
50:04
he really took it. It could have been really
50:06
cartoonish in somebody else's hands because comedy is so over
50:09
the top. But Phoenix sells it, shouting
50:12
am I not merciful Lucilla, which Phoenix improvised.
50:15
That's brilliant. The busy little bees monologue,
50:18
really creepy, like raw. He's delivering iconic lines all
50:21
the way through the film. So one of the best bad guy
50:23
performances in this century for me.
50:25
I think he's outstanding. Yeah, he has to have that scale,
50:29
doesn't he? Because you can't be returning
50:31
to Rome and just be quite quiet with it and be a little bit
50:35
weasely or whatever. You've got to have this bombast,
50:37
which I know the real commodists did have.
50:38
He believed he was Hercules, didn't he?
50:40
He actually formed in the arena. That Hercules thing is
50:43
referenced in the film, isn't it?
50:45
Yeah, yeah. Because he says to Lucius, he
50:47
said, are you Hector reborn or is it Hercules?
50:49
And he actually, Yeah. And he actually thought that he
50:51
was another thing that's really cool.
50:53
It's references that Marcus Aurelius died from the plague.
50:56
And then when he comes back to Romy says, have you ever
50:59
embraced anyone with the plague? Yeah, Eddie embraces, he's died
51:03
and kills him. So he's got, that's a nice
51:05
little hark back to, you know, historical accuracy in a film
51:07
that's not really pride and pride in itself and historical
51:10
accuracy. But there's all these little
51:12
bits. But yeah, getting back to
51:13
Phoenix, he is. He's you love to hear them.
51:15
And I can see that from a lot of interviews that I've seen, a lot
51:19
of things that I've read about the film.
51:20
He was very, very uncomfortable taking the role.
51:22
He didn't feel like he was good enough.
51:24
He felt like he didn't quite know how to play it.
51:26
He felt totally out of out of his depth and used to say to
51:30
Russell Crowe, he wanted to be roughed up before each scene.
51:33
He wanted to be like just, you know, spare us on.
51:36
And Russell Crowe went Richard Harris and said what we're going
51:38
to do with this kid? He just wants to get roughed up
51:40
before every shot, like what we're going to do with him.
51:42
And Richard Harris went, let's get him pissed.
51:44
So the two lines. Classic.
51:46
Yeah, just give him loads of pints again.
51:48
It's kind of loosed him up a bit and give him this, this error of
51:51
confidence, which is when he started improvising lines.
51:53
So you can see from the start of it when he's walking in to the
51:56
whole frame saying did I did I miss the battle to the am I not
52:00
merciful? That whole arc even from it for
52:03
an act that in real life is absolutely massive, brilliant.
52:07
Nobody else could do it better than Mike in Phoenix at this
52:09
point, I don't think. Yeah, when Richard Harris and
52:12
Russell Crowe took Phoenix out for a few guinnesses, I'm going
52:15
to stick my neck out and say that Harris drunk them both
52:17
under the table. 100 percent, 100% there wasn't a table left
52:24
drunk the table. Joaquin Phoenix was Ridley
52:29
Scott's first tries to play Commodus, but he did have one of
52:31
the name in consideration, just in case.
52:34
I'm guessing you don't know who that was.
52:36
I. Don't know.
52:37
It was Jude Law. But Jude Law, Britain's most
52:42
ridiculous law, and we've got a lot it.
52:50
Could have been them. There's another story where
52:54
midway through production, Ridley Scott was looking at the
52:56
dailies and noticed that Phoenix was note was noticeably chunkier
53:00
than he had been at the start of filming.
53:02
And in Phoenix defence, he's like, well, you're saying I look
53:05
like a fat little hamster, which is what Scott said, which is
53:10
amazing. But he said, well, why shouldn't
53:12
I be? I'm the emperor of Rome, Why
53:13
wouldn't I just eat and do whatever I want?
53:16
So Scott told him to lose weight immediately and apparently he
53:18
didn't eat for weeks. Fat Little Hamster was at the
53:23
first draft of the busy Little Bay speech.
53:27
First draft of this screenplay to be honest.
53:30
I think you can tell in the the scene with Lucilla at the
53:33
beginning, I think that's when that must have been what Scott
53:35
meant because he does look noticeably chunkier then.
53:39
Well, something that does make the character have comedies a
53:41
bit more interesting than Maximus is that unlike Maximus
53:44
Decimus, Meridius Commodus is based very much on a real life
53:47
emperor of Rome. And it seems the real comedist
53:50
was a right asshole as well. Piece of shit want to hear a
53:53
quick? Rundown of his story.
53:55
Yes. 1 then. Definitely.
53:57
So the real comedist was born to a mother who had slept with a
54:00
gladiator and then bathed and said gladiators blood.
54:03
Bit weird right? Right.
54:05
So because of this comedist referred to himself as a
54:07
gladiator ember and would fight in the Colosseum.
54:10
Whenever he fought his opponent would always get stabbed in the
54:12
back before the fight. Like happens to Maximus at the
54:15
end of the film, he would also take people with disabilities
54:18
into the Colosseum arena, tie them together and then club them
54:20
to death. And he was such a megalomaniac
54:23
that he renamed Rome to be called Colonia Commodiana.
54:27
And he began charging the state for these lovely little
54:29
appearances in the Colosseum. He charged him so much that the
54:32
value of Roman currency fell. And historians say this is what
54:36
directly led to the fall of the Roman Empire.
54:38
So well done, Commodus. What a bastard.
54:42
Top guy, some of the stuff I've read, he made them sit in the
54:45
midday sun and watch them kill 100 bears in a row.
54:49
As the bears were maimed, they were thrown out and he killed
54:51
100 bears. And that story that he said
54:53
about the disabled people, it was everyone who didn't have any
54:55
feet. They were lying on the ground,
54:58
wasn't standing up in the shape of a human like a massive giant
55:02
like all the people. Then he just went along just
55:04
hitting the wall on the floor. Honest to God.
55:08
Fucking hell, what a piece of shit.
55:11
Well, there you go, all the right history lessons.
55:17
Joaquin Phoenix was nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting
55:19
Actor but lost out. But it's your Del Toro for
55:22
Traffic. Traffic, yeah.
55:24
It was a big step up in the career of Joaquin Phoenix
55:27
though, and he went on to become a big, big star in his own
55:29
right. Buffalo Soldiers signs Walk the
55:31
Line, The Master, Her Joker and Lords More followed and he's now
55:36
married to Rooney Mara. What a bastard.
55:39
Yeah, hit him even more. As I mentioned at the top of
55:43
this section, we're going to mention Oliver reading a bit
55:45
more detail shortly and there's some of that great cast members.
55:47
We don't have time to go into too much DDLR, namely Connie
55:50
Nielsen as Lucilla, Richard Harris is Marcus Aurelius, and
55:53
Derek Jacobius and Aggregus. But in our two leads, Russell
55:57
Crowe as Maximus and Joaquin Phoenix as Commodus, we have a
56:01
very strong protagonist, antagonist partnership, I think.
56:04
Massive. Yeah, one of the best.
56:07
Should have made them brothers though.
56:09
No, I should have. Into the middle of the film now,
56:20
and since we last saw Maximus, he's found the charred remains
56:23
of his wife and son, being taken into slavery by Proximo or
56:27
played by Oliver Reed, and being trained as a gladiator.
56:30
We're picking things back up here with two of the most
56:32
memorable moments in the film. Maximus appearing in the
56:35
Colosseum is coming up, but before that we're talking about
56:38
him fighting in Zucca Bar. Fantastic.
56:40
Sounds great. So, having been trained by
56:42
Proximal, had one fight in the gladiatorial arena Zuckerbaugh
56:45
and made friends with Jubo, played by Jomon Hunt.
56:48
So Maximus enters the arena for the second time.
56:51
He destroys everybody easily before throwing away his sword
56:54
and delivering one of the most famous lines in the film.
56:58
Matt, are you not entertained? I am very entertained.
57:02
Yeah. It's excellent because I love
57:04
how the fight before this, he can see he's made that instant
57:07
friendship with Juba, so he's got his best friend there
57:10
immediately and he, you can see start to get the men to follow
57:13
him, even though he kind of just want to.
57:15
But here it's actually quite funny because he's just by
57:18
himself and he strides out one man against six and he just
57:21
makes mincemeat out of every single one of them, just slices
57:24
his way through. You know, he's like the
57:26
Terminator and a Togo at this point.
57:28
And it does leave that real iconic moment.
57:30
Are you not entertained? And again, one of those lines
57:33
could have been really cheap, could have been really
57:35
throwaway. But it's how Russell Core
57:37
delivers that it's excellent. The amount of like venom he puts
57:41
it in, the way he spits on the ground as well, because at this
57:44
point, he still doesn't know about Commodus.
57:46
He still doesn't know, you know, the going to the Colosseum.
57:48
So as far as he's concerned, he doesn't care about anything.
57:52
So he doesn't care if he gets put to death through showing
57:54
disrespect. And I love how he just launches
57:56
that sort in the crowd because, you know, he doesn't give a
58:00
shit, doesn't give a shit if he killed someone.
58:01
He's got nothing to live for. So I think this moment is really
58:05
important because it puts him at absolute rock bottom as a
58:07
character before he discovers what's happening in Rome, which
58:10
then gives him something to live for.
58:12
So yeah, really bloody, really violent, Very, very entertained.
58:16
Yeah, great. Well, up till now, we, or me at
58:19
least, I've been waiting for two things.
58:21
Graduate the fights and Ollie Read.
58:24
Yeah, we get them both in quick succession and neither
58:26
disappoints. Read is instantly charismatic,
58:29
as you'd expect. There's a good story with it all
58:31
made. Jalili tells he plays a slave
58:33
trader and in his scene Proximal grabs him by the crotch.
58:37
That wasn't part of the script we'd improvised it of.
58:39
Course it was. And Jalili said the film Garden
58:44
Oscar whistle Crow Garden Oscar only got a posthumous Oscar.
58:48
I got a partial erection. Brilliant.
58:54
There's definite parallels to Spartacus here as well with the
58:57
training sequences, and when the fight comes, it is exciting and
59:00
brutal and close delivery of the line.
59:02
Are you not entertained to the stunned audience?
59:04
Just part of the movie history? Yeah, absolutely fantastic.
59:08
Yeah, it's great. You know what Oliver Reed said
59:10
to him before he grabbed him by the crotch, before they did the
59:13
take? He turned around and said, are
59:15
you a method actor? And he said no.
59:18
So when they said actually just grab these balls, amazing.
59:23
Now you are. Which is unreal.
59:26
But I love all of these sequences.
59:28
I love the the whole training sequence and the fact that
59:31
Maximus is so defiant and throws that sword away and just keeps
59:35
getting hit. It's like, stop, he's going to
59:37
get his time, which means that he's a yellow and Juba's a red
59:40
where Max was definitely should be a red and the kind of word
59:42
together. But there's that scene just
59:44
before this one we're talking about when he's just that Mace
59:47
is swinging and that shadow is just cast over when they're all
59:50
waiting to go out and that guy pisses himself.
59:52
Max was just takes a step back. He's just like, I'm not going to
59:55
get me my feet wet and pissed. Oh, this blood's all right, but
59:58
pissed. That's a step too far.
1:00:00
Best bit about this sequence, it's the two swords.
1:00:03
It has to be when he picks the second sword up, swings them
1:00:06
round and it's the Bang Bang and then leaves them in the guy and
1:00:09
he walks, just walks around. Here we go.
1:00:12
What else? Then takes them out and used
1:00:13
them both to take his fucking head off and it's just
1:00:17
fantastically done. It's so good.
1:00:19
And again, I'll repeat it. So entertaining.
1:00:24
There's another little touchy though that'll love.
1:00:26
And it's before each fight you see how Maximus is always
1:00:29
picking up sand from the rain and he smells it.
1:00:31
And he does the same in Germany with the dirt as well.
1:00:33
That's because like the corner of the back story that Ridley
1:00:36
Scott gave him, Maximus is a farmer.
1:00:38
So he tries to remember his wife and child every time he picks up
1:00:41
a piece of the earth of the dirt.
1:00:43
And it also signifies mortality in the fact that he could die
1:00:46
and therefore he returns to the soil when that happens, so.
1:00:49
That's what that's all about. Lovely.
1:00:50
Little. Lovely.
1:00:53
Bit morbid, but yeah, very nice. It's kind of really lightly done
1:00:57
as well though, isn't it? It's not, it's not overhand,
1:00:59
it's just really lightly done. Like blinking.
1:01:01
You'll miss it, but he does it every, every single time.
1:01:03
He's going to kick some ass. He's like, I'll check the dirt
1:01:06
out. Yeah, good, Dad.
1:01:09
So we're not quite at the Coliseum yet, but this is a
1:01:12
pretty good warm up. Yeah.
1:01:13
Oh yeah. The best Are you not
1:01:16
entertained? Are you not entertained?
1:01:20
After successfully winning the Battle of Carthage Recreation in
1:01:23
his first appearance at the Colosseum and his following
1:01:25
confrontation with the Emperor, Commodus brings in Maximus
1:01:28
biggest challenge yet. He must face off against the
1:01:31
only undefeated gladiator and Roman history.
1:01:34
This sequence brings us Tigress, the goal, Wild Tigers, and
1:01:37
Maximus defying the Emperor again by sparing the goal's
1:01:39
life. Yeah, not the first time or two
1:01:43
main characters share the screen, but it's still powerful.
1:01:47
I mean, it's just another excellent sequence, isn't it?
1:01:49
It's like when you're playing a computer game and each level
1:01:51
gets harder the further you get through it.
1:01:53
So now, no, no, he's got to find an undefeated guy with four
1:01:56
tigers. Like trying to get him at the
1:01:58
same time. It's absolutely mental.
1:02:00
But that's why the film never gets born, because it's never
1:02:02
the same fight again and again, just for someone different.
1:02:05
There's always something new. There's always something more
1:02:08
challenging for Maximus to overcome here, and I love that
1:02:12
look on Commodus's face when he does defeat Tigers, because this
1:02:15
is where Commodus really thinks he's got Maximus's number, and
1:02:18
he hasn't. But every time I watch it, I
1:02:20
just think, fucking hell, they're actual real Tigers.
1:02:24
And I know they're obviously shots, like quite a few feet
1:02:26
away from Russell Crowe, but it's done so well, you think
1:02:29
they're all right on top of him. And the intensity just keeps
1:02:32
ramping up. But I think what's interesting
1:02:34
is that in the original script, he was going to fight a rhino at
1:02:37
this point until they discovered that you can't, you can't train
1:02:41
rhinos. And then they tried some CG
1:02:43
ones, and apparently they were just a disaster.
1:02:45
So that'll fall back on using the tigers instead.
1:02:48
But yeah, I think it's great. The only thing about the scene
1:02:51
is I think that crowd is very fickle.
1:02:54
I'm not quite sure how, like, quickly they would be on board
1:02:57
with the whole Maximus the merciful thing.
1:02:59
You know, they're there to see blood.
1:03:01
They're they're there to see death.
1:03:03
That that's a little convenient, I think.
1:03:05
Yeah, I mean by this point in the film I'm so engaged in
1:03:08
what's going on, it's ridiculous.
1:03:10
Tigress. The goals helmet is ridiculous
1:03:12
but great. The Tigers are a great touch and
1:03:15
the fight choreography is fantastic, the best in the film
1:03:17
for me. It feels like we're watching 2
1:03:20
legendary gladiators battling it out.
1:03:22
Yeah, a disappointing element for me is the Tigers.
1:03:25
The goal was played by Sven Only Thorson, but he wasn't
1:03:27
originally cast. Initially.
1:03:29
The role went to Loofah Reno, famous for playing the
1:03:32
Incredible Hulk in the 70s TV show.
1:03:34
I mean that would have been great seeing him up there, but
1:03:36
spend all your thoughts and did win Denmark's Strongest Man
1:03:39
competition in 1983, so Oh well, Pi might know.
1:03:42
Well, yeah, he's in. He's in red heat.
1:03:44
He's in Court of the Barbarian. He's in, like, everything.
1:03:47
But yeah, fantastic action scene.
1:03:49
I narratively agree. We had to develop the story
1:03:51
relationship between Maximus and Commodus.
1:03:53
Fantastic stuff. This is like when this, when
1:03:57
this scene happened, when he said that, you know, he's in the
1:04:00
tunnel and you get that whole speech from Proxy where we're
1:04:02
all shadows and dust and it's just Maximus by himself.
1:04:05
And he walks out of the Coliseum by himself and you don't know
1:04:08
what's going to happen. And then the guy's running and
1:04:10
then the chains are there and the chains start slipping
1:04:12
through the hands and you're thinking, what the fuck's going
1:04:14
on here? And how on earth have they
1:04:17
actually done this? I remember just sitting in the
1:04:19
cinema going, how on earth have they actually done this?
1:04:22
This is absolutely outrageous. And Ridley Scott did a screening
1:04:26
for Spielberg. Spielberg watch the whole film
1:04:29
without saying a thing and then turn around to disgust at the
1:04:32
end. And when them tigers must have
1:04:33
been an absolute nightmare with with Russell and the guys I got.
1:04:36
I can't believe you got them that close.
1:04:38
They said, well, they weren't really there at all.
1:04:42
Like Russell Crowe is at always 15 meters away from any tiger at
1:04:46
any point. Yeah, yeah.
1:04:48
If you watch that sequence again and every, every time they get
1:04:50
close and the Scratton or whatever, that's a blue screen
1:04:53
and then it's overlaid. This is where, you know,
1:04:55
computers and CGI is used to its absolute zenith.
1:04:59
In my opinion, if you can't tell that it's CGI, it's the best way
1:05:04
to use it. And Ridley Scott uses it here
1:05:07
perfectly. Like you would not believe for
1:05:09
one moment that them tigers are like 15 meters away from them.
1:05:13
The way it's it's shot, the way it's lit, the way that there's
1:05:16
80 moves in here, Russell Crowe said.
1:05:17
There's 80 different sort moves as well as 4 tigers and all the
1:05:22
camera positions like to get that nailed down this well and
1:05:25
have the just the this, the ferocity of it, just the way it
1:05:29
starts with that kick up a dust to his face.
1:05:32
It's just such a spectacle. It's just so great.
1:05:35
This is one of the best action sequences of the last century
1:05:37
from a CGI point of view, from an actress point of view, from a
1:05:40
choreography point of view, for everything.
1:05:42
I think it's just fucking so engagement.
1:05:44
It's fantastic. Yeah, those tigers are a great
1:05:47
touch, and they were based on reality.
1:05:49
The Romans often throw tigers or lions into the Colosseum
1:05:51
unannounced for the gladiators to deal with, and Ridley Scott
1:05:54
had five tigers here. And for security, they had an
1:05:57
expert on hand with a gun loaded with a tranquilizer with darts
1:06:00
should anything go wrong. And the Tigers, like you say
1:06:03
Westie, weren't allowed within 15 feet of Russell Crowe for
1:06:06
obvious security reasons. Something else like about the
1:06:09
scene, it's something you obviously see a lot is he got
1:06:12
that famous bit where Commodus gives the thumbs down because he
1:06:15
wants Maximus to to kill tigers. And that's obviously based on
1:06:19
what they used to do at the time, deciding whether the
1:06:21
gladiators should live or die. But in actual ancient Rome,
1:06:23
though, it was the other way around.
1:06:25
Thumbs up meant death and thumbs down meant mercy because it was
1:06:28
meant to signify sheath in the sword.
1:06:30
That's what the the action was supposed to be.
1:06:33
But the crew thought, you know what, everybody just assumes
1:06:36
it's the other way around. And if we go for actual
1:06:38
historical fact, we're just going to look like fields.
1:06:42
They're going to think we've done it the wrong way around.
1:06:44
So this they stuck the the thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs
1:06:47
down mean in death. It would have been pretty
1:06:49
confusing. It would have been confused.
1:06:51
It would have been fine if it wasn't for Fonzie fucking
1:06:53
everything up in the 50s. Never thought he'd get a mention
1:06:59
on this podcast but always been for Fonzie.
1:07:05
Hey. So the middle of the film is
1:07:09
where we start getting what we've been promised.
1:07:12
The gladiator arenas, the first fights in Zuckerberg race.
1:07:15
But the Colosseum is the money shot.
1:07:16
And once we move into Rome, the movie goes up a notch, I think.
1:07:20
Oh yes, definitely the crew. Gladiator was a huge production,
1:07:30
and naturally, there was a very talented team behind the scenes
1:07:33
to help Ridley Scott pull it all off.
1:07:35
We're going to be talking about Hans Ziman, Lisa Gerard.
1:07:38
He'll compose the music for the film and also cinematographer
1:07:41
John Matheson. But we're starting with the
1:07:43
screenplay and writing of the movie.
1:07:45
Yeah. So the writers of Gladiator were
1:07:49
David Franzoni, John Logan and William Nicholson.
1:07:52
They shared writing credit but didn't actually write the
1:07:54
screenplay together. We'll get to that story shortly.
1:07:56
But for now, what do we think of the writing on Gladiator?
1:08:00
I think the writing is like on the page, even now, if you if
1:08:06
you took the finished film and wrote it as it was seen on the
1:08:10
screen, it would still be a bit confusing and still seem a bit
1:08:13
hammy and not very sellable. So I, I think this was all sold
1:08:18
to release Scott on the visuals and on the idea that, you know,
1:08:23
you've got the Colosseum, you've got these big spectacles, you've
1:08:26
got this big kind of set piece and it's built within a real
1:08:30
world. And I think Ridley Scott was
1:08:31
excited about that because every world that he's created didn't
1:08:34
exist and he all of a sudden he's got a chance to rebuild
1:08:37
something that's built based in fact.
1:08:39
And I think that's what excited the most more than the script
1:08:41
did. I think the story is very
1:08:43
simple. I think it's great, but it is
1:08:46
based roughly on about two or three different historical facts
1:08:52
and historical people and different things and all kind of
1:08:54
pieced together. So for me, it does feel a bit
1:08:57
much like a patchwork. It feels a bit.
1:09:00
It doesn't feel very linear. It doesn't feel very solid,
1:09:02
doesn't feel very confident as a piece of writing.
1:09:05
Obviously you've got to take into account the things that
1:09:07
happened on set of the death of Oliver Reed.
1:09:09
It was supposed to end completely differently.
1:09:11
It was supposed to end with Maximus and Proximo fighting to
1:09:14
the death, which would have been really emotional because he's
1:09:18
brought him there and he was freed and he, and you can see
1:09:21
Commodus bringing him back in just to be a Dick head.
1:09:23
And I think that would have been really powerful and that would
1:09:25
have really worked. But they have to rework and
1:09:27
reshift certain things and you can see certain bits of the
1:09:30
script are just kind of stepping stones to the set pieces in my
1:09:35
opinion. So it works, but it works on a
1:09:38
very very basic level. Yeah, I think the writing is
1:09:42
good without being great. For the most part, the story is
1:09:46
solid and well told. The characters are there and
1:09:48
their motivations are clear from start to finish, so the building
1:09:51
blocks are all there. However, I wouldn't call it
1:09:54
exactly massively original or inspired from a narrative point
1:09:57
of view. It's full of the tropes from
1:09:59
ancient epics. The evil ruler, the hero with a
1:10:01
murdered family, the gladiator slave revolt.
1:10:04
We've seen all that before, and thematically, I'm not sure
1:10:07
there's a great deal going on back beyond what we see on the
1:10:09
screen, is there? No.
1:10:11
Could have commentated on classic society, maybe, but it
1:10:13
doesn't. And that would have been fine if
1:10:15
it was telling a historically accurate story.
1:10:17
But it doesn't do that either, no.
1:10:19
So it seems like the point of the film is to show us the glory
1:10:21
of Rome on the big screen and give us a story that works and
1:10:24
does a second justice. And I think it does do that.
1:10:27
There were big issues during production with the script that
1:10:29
we're going to talk about. I don't think that shows too
1:10:31
badly with what we get on the screen.
1:10:33
So yeah, the rating certainly isn't bad, far from it, but it's
1:10:37
probably the least good thing about the movie for me.
1:10:39
I think definitely. Same.
1:10:41
Yeah, very much the same. Because like, if I'm going to
1:10:44
see Ridley Scott film called Gladiator, I'm not going to go
1:10:48
in expecting to see like a real investigation of of the politics
1:10:51
of ancient Rome at the time. You know, for one that I'll go
1:10:54
and watch I, Claudius. I want a film called Gladiator.
1:10:57
I want to see big fuck off action sequences.
1:11:01
I want to see Russell core wrestling tigers.
1:11:03
I want to see people getting split in half by massive swords.
1:11:07
It's up to chariot wheels. And that's what the film
1:11:09
delivers. It tells the story on a visual
1:11:11
level rather than a script level, which I think is what
1:11:14
Weston was saying. And it does like at the
1:11:16
beginning when you've got Commodus with the senators and
1:11:19
they're going on about the Republic.
1:11:21
I'm just saying, oh, come on, you're not really going to tell
1:11:23
your story about that. Oh yeah.
1:11:25
So it kind of makes these like half hearted attempts to do
1:11:28
something a bit relevant to real life, I guess, talking about
1:11:31
politics. But none of that really works.
1:11:34
But what does work for me is 2 things.
1:11:37
First of all, it's the emotional heart of it and setting up the
1:11:41
stakes of the film, which is, you know, the hero and the
1:11:45
villain and what the villain has done to the hero.
1:11:47
That all makes sense. And it's really strong that
1:11:50
actually you totally feel every emotional beat and you feel
1:11:53
Maximus's grief as he goes on, and that's in the right, and
1:11:57
that's good. And the other thing I do like
1:11:58
about it is for a film of this genre, it's surprisingly
1:12:02
quotable. You don't really expect to get a
1:12:05
lot of quotes from films like this, and I think you do with
1:12:07
Gladiator. So yeah, I do like the those two
1:12:11
aspects. It's it's fine for what it is.
1:12:13
But if someone said to me, oh, Gladiator, my favorite thing
1:12:15
about that was the script, I wonder if they'd actually seen
1:12:19
it. You know, I think what are you
1:12:21
thinking? Like George Lucas would have
1:12:22
seen this and after when he's writing like the Star Wars
1:12:25
prequels and going a Senate, a Republic.
1:12:28
Oh, this, this sounds, this sounds great.
1:12:31
That the script's amazing. And I think George Lucas would
1:12:34
have liked this for the script, which is why he's shit.
1:12:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Attack of the Clones has a
1:12:40
big Colosseum as well, doesn't? He exactly, he's totally ripped
1:12:42
off. He's ripped off the screenplay
1:12:43
at the Gladiator, which is the only thing you shouldn't RIP off
1:12:46
on Gladiator. So 3 writers are credited on
1:12:52
Gladiator, as I mentioned, David Franzoni, John Logan and William
1:12:55
Nicholson, but they weren't the writing team.
1:12:57
They worked on the movie separately.
1:12:59
So would you like to hear how that happened?
1:13:01
Go on then. I mean, it's not a particularly
1:13:04
interesting story. No, but I'd I'd rather not then.
1:13:08
Never stopped us before, John. Certainly hasn't.
1:13:12
So David Franzoni originally started developing the story
1:13:14
back in the 70s. He got the idea from a book
1:13:17
called Those Who Were About to Die by Daniel P Mannix.
1:13:20
It was about the Roman games, so the Colosseum and Gladiators.
1:13:24
Then in the 90s, Franzoni wrote Amistad about the North American
1:13:27
slave trade, directed by Spielberg.
1:13:30
He told Spielberg the idea for Gladiator and he loved it.
1:13:33
Yeah, when Spielberg was talking we had like 3 questions about
1:13:36
it. He was like, is it about Roman
1:13:37
gladiators? Like not not American or
1:13:40
Japanese or anything else. Not jetting, Wolf.
1:13:45
Yeah, Roman gladiators. And he's like, do we see the
1:13:48
Colosseum? He's like, yes, he's like
1:13:50
fighting with swords and animals and stuff.
1:13:52
And he's like, yes, he's like, great, let's make it.
1:13:55
For big kid. Swords and animals and stuff.
1:14:02
So make it they did. Franzoni wrote a draft in 1997,
1:14:05
but Ridley Scott didn't like Franzoni's dialogue much, so
1:14:08
hired John Logan, who had just written Any Given Sunday, to
1:14:11
rewrite Gladiator. It was Logan who made the
1:14:13
decision to kill off Maximus family as motivation.
1:14:16
Yeah, I mean, it's infamous how troubled this film was with E
1:14:20
script problems, wasn't it? And it got to the point where
1:14:23
the cast were complaining about it when they started filming
1:14:25
and, and Crows actually says when they started you have they
1:14:29
had 32 pages to go on. And that was.
1:14:31
Jesus Christ. Hundred 100,000,050 minutes, 100
1:14:34
million budget on 32 pages You see shit themselves Scotland.
1:14:40
It didn't bother him, right? But what he did do, he got
1:14:43
William Nicholson, who'd written First Night, and he brought an
1:14:46
elements. I mean, Wes, you mentioned one
1:14:48
of them, but he made Maximus more sensitive.
1:14:50
He emphasized the friendship he forges with.
1:14:52
Juba. Kind of gladiator trainer, which
1:14:55
I think is a really good part of the film actually.
1:14:57
And he added in all the afterlife stuff as well.
1:14:59
Some Maximus had a motivation beyond just killing Commodus.
1:15:02
There's something beyond that rainfall.
1:15:03
So he got all that in. First night.
1:15:06
I mean, we've got problems with this script.
1:15:08
Who wrote that forgotten piece of shit about Kim Arthur?
1:15:11
That's good. It's.
1:15:12
A brilliant first night, man. I trusted you, loved you and you
1:15:15
betrayed me. It's fucking great.
1:15:17
You'll sort it out. And Connie Nielsen as well, who
1:15:21
played Lucilla, said that when she first saw the script, it
1:15:25
made references to museums and the police, which weren't even a
1:15:29
thing back then. Connie Nielsen was she was like
1:15:32
the go to of like Roman history. She was so interested in it.
1:15:36
She was almost like a real scholar of like Roman history.
1:15:39
And then they went all the police are there.
1:15:41
She's like who? Sting still at Copeland.
1:15:45
Are they doing the soundtrack? Play the Colosseum, the police.
1:15:49
Imagine just like, don't stand so close to me when the tigers
1:15:53
are there. That would have been fucking
1:15:54
incredible. We don't think she does Maximus.
1:16:01
Very good. I mean, that is though, pretty
1:16:04
surely like a research. That's the only thing, isn't it?
1:16:06
The police. Well, after all that for writing
1:16:11
Gladiator, David Franzoni, John Logan and William Nicholson were
1:16:14
nominated for an Oscar. Blimey.
1:16:16
Lost out too, Do you know who? Anyone else?
1:16:22
It was Cameron Crowe, almost famous.
1:16:24
Almost famous. Oh nice, lovely.
1:16:26
So mixed bag on the writing it seems then Some of it's really
1:16:29
good, some not great. Script problems, Oscar
1:16:32
nominations and slagged off by the greatest actor of all time.
1:16:36
Yeah, well, got to start somewhere.
1:16:45
Moving on from the writing to the music and the composers and
1:16:48
gladiator were Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard.
1:16:51
Hans Zimmer, we know and I've talked about a course.
1:16:53
At this point it was already an Oscar winner for The Lion King.
1:16:56
Lisa Gerald, though, how much you know about her?
1:17:00
Not a great deal. Not a great deal.
1:17:02
So Zimmer was eventually planning to use an Israeli
1:17:04
singer called Ofra Hazar for the score after working with her on
1:17:08
The Prince of Egypt. But Ofra Hazar died before she
1:17:11
was able to record, and so Lisa Gerald was chosen instead.
1:17:14
She'd worked on The Insider with Crow, and she and Zimmer
1:17:17
composed the music for Gladiator together.
1:17:20
So how good is it though the music on Gladiator?
1:17:23
It's sensationally good. It's overwhelmingly good.
1:17:29
It's it's so good that I listened to it a day and wept at
1:17:37
work. Because it's just.
1:17:43
It's just got the grandeur, but it's also really small and
1:17:47
emotional when you need it to be.
1:17:49
It just kind of taps into Maximus perfectly.
1:17:52
It's got that real force and then it's got that real emotion.
1:17:55
It's got that sense of afterlife and it's got that sense of now
1:17:59
it's just Hans Zimmer really kind of pushing what he needs to
1:18:03
push and everyone's like, it's that Enya.
1:18:06
No, it's not Enya, but everyone thinks it is Enya, but it's not.
1:18:10
It's Lisa Gerard, which is fantastic.
1:18:13
I mean, for me it's it's top five movie scores of all time
1:18:17
easily, easily. It's just absolutely fucking
1:18:22
flawless from start to finish. You can put it on when you're
1:18:24
cooking the tea and the tea is going to be fucking incredible.
1:18:29
Like you're really going to concentrate like that.
1:18:31
Gravy's never been that dense. Like it's just it's not got that
1:18:35
flavour. There's a right amount of salt
1:18:36
and pepper because you just it makes you present.
1:18:39
And in all seriousness, I think it is Hans Zimmer's absolute
1:18:42
pinnacle. Huge.
1:18:44
It totally makes the film. I think he'd get off the fence.
1:18:47
Westy. Bloody hell no.
1:18:50
But I agree, the music's fantastic.
1:18:52
Get off the fence, but I agree. Bold and spectacular, and
1:18:57
sometimes it's soft and emotional.
1:18:58
Yeah, there's times when the music carries the film for me,
1:19:02
the battle at the start, which is one of those big pieces.
1:19:04
But my favorites I think are the Lisa Gerrard ones, the softer,
1:19:07
more pieces. There's several which are
1:19:09
stunning, but I think my favorite is the one called
1:19:11
Elysium. Elysium play is just as Maximus
1:19:38
as dying in the Colosseum at the end gives me goosebumps and puts
1:19:41
me in that moment in the film whenever I hear it.
1:19:43
Lisa Gerard's the unsung hero of the film for me.
1:19:45
Her music and voice is just totally stunning.
1:19:48
I think Scott must have been thanking his lucky stars and
1:19:50
when he hears the music that the two of them came up with.
1:19:52
Oh yeah, definitely. Do you know who was approached
1:19:54
to do instead of Lisa Gerrard? So plate.
1:19:58
Nope. Yeah, it was just Sting by
1:20:00
himself doing fields of gold as his hand went through the wheat.
1:20:05
Fields of wheat. Fields of wheat?
1:20:08
No, it was Pavarotti was approached, but he turned it
1:20:11
down. That would have been outrageous,
1:20:13
while Zimmer would have made it work.
1:20:14
But I'd much rather Lisa Gerard in there.
1:20:17
Ness and Dorma in there. Phenomenal work by Zimmer.
1:20:20
I completely agree with that. And you guys have said, I mean,
1:20:23
I had the sound rock on while I was writing me notes up for
1:20:25
this. And I didn't weep, unlike
1:20:26
Wesley. You should have tell you what,
1:20:27
I've never been so pumped in my life.
1:20:29
I just wanted to go out on the street and like sort of fight
1:20:32
with someone random. Quite easy in the same fancy.
1:20:38
Chances, to be honest, that would have been badly for me,
1:20:41
promise you that the soundtrack is the film because it's huge
1:20:45
and it's bombastic and it sweeps you along.
1:20:48
But it can go from that to being really emotional and really
1:20:51
delicate and small and amount worth and it all blends together
1:20:55
It when in some ways it probably shouldn't.
1:20:58
It should feel a bit disjointed in some ways, but it never does.
1:21:01
And for me, like that bit at the end, the very last bit of music
1:21:06
when the when the credits roll and you pull out of the Coliseum
1:21:08
and Ridley Scott's name appears that oh absolute shivers, puts a
1:21:12
lump on my thought every time that absolutely wonderful piece
1:21:15
of music. So yeah, the whole thing, I
1:21:17
think it's absolutely fantastic. Also as well, Hans Zimmer was
1:21:20
sued by Gustav Holtz Foundation who said the parts of Zimmer's
1:21:23
score were too similar to Holtz. Mars the bringer of war.
1:21:28
Now who cares? Firstly and secondly, it's not.
1:21:34
Thirdly, nobody really knows how that ended up so it's fine.
1:21:38
And even if it is, just be proud of it.
1:21:40
It's in Gladiator, who gives a flying fuck.
1:21:42
Yeah, that piece by Holst is absolutely massive, but it's.
1:21:46
Huge. Enormous.
1:21:49
I've heard similar pieces of that the way hundreds of movies,
1:21:52
especially like science fiction movies, everyone just rips it
1:21:54
off left and. Right.
1:21:55
Oh, well, yeah, John Williams and Star Wars takes a lot from
1:21:57
it, doesn't he? Yeah, he does.
1:21:58
Yeah. So no Oscar wins for them using
1:22:00
for Gladiator, but it was nominated lost out to Crouching
1:22:03
Tiger, Hidden Dragon by Tan Dun. Also, due to the Academy
1:22:09
regulations at the time, only one composer could be nominated
1:22:12
for the Oscars. In the case of Gladiator, that
1:22:14
was Zimmer. So Lisa Gerard was just left
1:22:17
Hang out the dry. No, that's rubbish.
1:22:18
That is rubbish. They did win the Golden Globe
1:22:20
together though. Didn't.
1:22:22
They they did. They did, yeah.
1:22:29
Moving from media to visuals. And the director of photography
1:22:31
on Gladiator was John Matheson. He didn't exactly have a huge
1:22:34
portfolio under his belt as DEP at this point.
1:22:37
And finally, Gladiator. The biggest movies he's worked
1:22:39
on were Twin Town and Plunkett and McLean, Oh.
1:22:42
Yeah. One hell of a step up for John
1:22:45
Matheson then. Yeah.
1:22:46
How do we handle it? What do we think of the
1:22:48
cinematography on Gladiator? Yeah, I think he handles it
1:22:51
really well. I think I would say, though, if
1:22:54
you're the DP for Ridley Scott, you pretty much just do what
1:22:57
you're told, don't you? Because he is somebody who can
1:23:00
do your job twice as good as you can.
1:23:02
So I don't know, I could be wrong, but I can't imagine this
1:23:06
is a film where he brought a lot to this personally or suggested
1:23:10
stuff to Ridley Scott on the day.
1:23:11
I would imagine it was all there for him to do, but that work is
1:23:15
still got to be excellent and he's got to cover a hell of a
1:23:18
lot in this film. He's got to go from Germany full
1:23:20
of mud, rain, snow to Italy in the blazing heat.
1:23:24
He's got to go for these really epic, huge shots to really
1:23:29
intimate personal drama. And I actually really like some
1:23:32
of the close-ups in this film. I think some of those are
1:23:34
really, really well shot. The Am I not merciful scene,
1:23:38
that's really great use of close-ups there.
1:23:41
The conversation that Maximus has with Marcus Aurelius in in
1:23:44
the tent, that's really well shot.
1:23:47
And there's one bit I really love where Lucilla is walking
1:23:50
through the palace and Commodus start speaking and you can't
1:23:52
work out where he is or where it's coming from.
1:23:54
And he's actually to the left of screen sitting down and he's
1:23:58
he's just so still and just compose so well at all.
1:24:01
You just can't work out where he is for a few seconds.
1:24:03
It's it's always to say, obviously, it's me.
1:24:05
I think that that's excellent as well.
1:24:07
So I think the biggest compliment I could appear
1:24:09
Matheson, apart from the fact that he went on to work for
1:24:12
Scott a few times afterwards, is that Scott has looked at
1:24:14
everything that he needs to accomplish in this film, which
1:24:17
is really complicated visually, but, and it's got to be
1:24:19
incredibly cinematic, but very personal at the same time.
1:24:23
And Matheson is the man he picked to do it.
1:24:25
So he must have had some faith in him.
1:24:26
And to be fair, I think he repairs it.
1:24:29
Yeah, I mean, John Matheson might have been making a big
1:24:31
step up for the film, but it doesn't show to me.
1:24:33
I don't think it looks stunning start to finish.
1:24:36
The big battle sequence in Germania at the start, that
1:24:39
really reminds me of the beach landing sequence in Saving
1:24:41
Private Ryan. I think it's maybe the close-ups
1:24:43
and the slow motion balls reminds me of that.
1:24:45
I love the lighting of that whole segment in Northern
1:24:47
Europe. You know it's freezing cold
1:24:49
because we see snow, but it feels freezing cold because of
1:24:52
the lightning. That's great.
1:24:54
And then once we get to Rome, it doesn't let up.
1:24:56
Stunning wide shots of the city and much more warm hues and
1:24:59
lightning. I love the helicopter type shots
1:25:01
of the Coliseum. I love the swooping crane shots
1:25:03
inside the Coliseum. I love the close-ups during the
1:25:05
more perfectly dramatic moments. I think it's all just fantastic.
1:25:09
Looks incredible start to finish.
1:25:11
Yeah, I think like Matt touched on, if you're ADP for Ridley
1:25:14
Scott, much like if you're if you like John Alcott and you're
1:25:16
shooting for Kubrick, I think you're just somebody who can get
1:25:20
the job done and somebody who's dependable and somebody who has
1:25:22
a really solid work ethic and somebody who's very trustworthy.
1:25:26
And I think Matheson must be all of those, especially, you know,
1:25:30
you worked on Robin Hood after it and Hannibal and Matchstick
1:25:33
Man and Kingdom of Heaven, all the like four or five release
1:25:36
got films after this. So he's obviously a very
1:25:38
dependable guy. But again, like Matt said, he
1:25:40
hasn't really got a style. You don't bring him on board.
1:25:43
He's not a Roger Deakins or he's not a chief or he's not like,
1:25:46
you know, a Greg Fraser. He's not one of these people
1:25:47
where you go, I need your vision on this.
1:25:50
Everything is Ridley Scott's vision 100% and the way this is
1:25:53
shot and the way it is delivered and the way that he actually
1:25:56
delivers Ridley Scott's vision shouldn't be overlooked, I don't
1:25:59
think. And there's some really classic
1:26:01
light in here. The amount of times that Connie
1:26:03
Nielsen's lit with that strip over our eyes, which is classic,
1:26:07
like, you know, the Cleopatra, the classic, like, you know,
1:26:09
fifty 60s look, that beauty look and the way that the lights
1:26:13
coming through the windows, it's very similar to Blade Runner,
1:26:16
but they're not using any hazes, they're not using any smoke.
1:26:18
They've got to get that light in and the certain way you filled
1:26:21
as whatever else. And this was shot spherical as
1:26:23
well. And I think Ridley Scott was
1:26:25
very much wanted to do that and didn't want to shoot it
1:26:27
anamorphic like you did with Alien or like you did with Blade
1:26:30
Runner and wanted to make it, you know, to to have this
1:26:33
grandeur without having that reduced frame.
1:26:37
And I think there's some greedy, really excellent, excellent
1:26:40
shots in this. But at the same time, you've got
1:26:42
to go, well, it's Ridley Scott. What can you do?
1:26:46
Could Ridley Scott work with Roger Diggins?
1:26:48
I don't think he could. Could he work with cheap?
1:26:50
I don't think he could. I don't think he work with
1:26:52
someone who has their own vision or has their own visual flair.
1:26:55
I think Ridley Scott is kind of a a he's like the the hooded
1:26:59
claw from Penelope pit stop. He's like AVP in disguise.
1:27:03
He's like, hey, get him believe, you know, he's like, oh, he's
1:27:06
just kind of like, yeah, I've got this.
1:27:08
I've got, I've got a dread of photography, but I don't need
1:27:10
him, you know what I mean? But it looks beautiful.
1:27:13
It's very, very, very watchable. And yeah, if Matheson puts his
1:27:18
name on it, which he but he should, then he should be
1:27:20
applauded for it. So the first time really Scott
1:27:23
and John Matheson worked together.
1:27:25
So what's your favorite shot of theirs in the film?
1:27:28
My favorite shot is when he's just defeated Tigris of goal and
1:27:32
he looks up and he wants to get the thumbs up of the thumbs down
1:27:36
from Commodus and Commodus gives him the thumbs down as if he's
1:27:39
going to kill him. And then you get that it's a
1:27:41
blink and you'll miss it. He turns round and there's that.
1:27:44
It's a beautiful mid shot and he's got that axe above his head
1:27:48
and all of that light behind them is just bleeding in in
1:27:51
strips. It's just he's like 3 or 456
1:27:55
strips that are just over Maximus shoulder just throws
1:27:57
that axe away. Just this act of defiance.
1:28:00
But this it's almost as if he's got God on his shoulders.
1:28:03
Like he's got this backup beautiful moment where it's like
1:28:06
and it's just like he's got this.
1:28:08
It's just like throws that axe away.
1:28:10
He's like fuck you. And it shouldn't be that
1:28:12
beautiful, but it's a beautiful moment in in this carnage.
1:28:15
That is my favorite shot. You could pause that and frame
1:28:18
it. It's just beautiful.
1:28:21
It is stunning. Matt, what's your favorite show
1:28:24
in the film? It's towards the end, it's right
1:28:27
before you get that final showdown between Maximus and
1:28:29
Commodus where they're on that station, they're being raced up
1:28:32
into the arena, so the light is coming down through the Hatch
1:28:36
and all the rawest petals have fallen.
1:28:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's excellent because he
1:28:41
got Commodus and he's pulled that sneaky little bitch move on
1:28:44
Maximus and stabbed him. So he's looking really smoke and
1:28:46
like looking up into the Liger, like Ascendant to Glory.
1:28:51
It just looks absolutely fantastic.
1:28:53
It sets the end up the end fried up perfectly.
1:28:56
And I suppose, like what Wesley says, I could frame that shot.
1:28:59
I'd happily have that on my wall.
1:29:01
Yeah, those elevators were saying the film were real.
1:29:03
They really had those back in Roman times.
1:29:06
I think the police came up on one when they played the
1:29:08
Colosseum. For his work on Gladiator, John
1:29:17
Matheson was nominated for his first Oscar, losing out to Peter
1:29:20
Powell for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
1:29:22
And after the film he went on to work on of the big projects like
1:29:25
Hannibal, The Phantom of the Opera, Kingdom of Heaven, Robin
1:29:28
Hood, X-Men First Class, and there's others as well.
1:29:31
So a big and very accomplished team working behind the scenes
1:29:34
on Gladiator. The only big name there is
1:29:37
probably Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerard was robbed by the Academy
1:29:40
but generally strong work from them right as David Franzoni,
1:29:43
John Logan and William Nicholson and the DP John Matheson.
1:29:47
Yep, it all came together nicely, thankfully.
1:29:56
By the end of Gladiator, the big gladiatorial battles are done
1:29:59
and the narrative starts to tie up.
1:30:01
We're talking about the final and climactic Colosseum fight
1:30:04
between Maximus and Commodus. But before that, we're looking
1:30:07
at the slave revolt and the betrayal of Maximus.
1:30:10
Yeah. So Senator Gregas and Lucilla
1:30:14
team up with Maximus in an attempt to overthrow Commodus
1:30:16
and reinstate Marcus. A really stream of Rome and
1:30:20
conspire and conspire behind the Emperor's back.
1:30:23
In this sequence we see Maximus escape the gladiators take on
1:30:26
the Roman army and Proximo killed along with Maximus right
1:30:30
hand man Cicero. Before Maximus has returned to
1:30:32
his shackles, it all kicks off and Proximo's in danger of
1:30:36
becoming a good man. Yeah, I love this sequence.
1:30:39
I love the way that this builds and it gives you a little bit
1:30:42
more of a of a scope and how everything comes together.
1:30:46
But it just, it, it does, it builds the tension really,
1:30:48
really well. And then you find out that
1:30:51
Commodus knows what's going on. He takes that out on the sea
1:30:54
like you've got that. Am I not merciful bit, which is
1:30:57
just so powerful. And he's just like right in her
1:31:00
face, like how she didn't punch him.
1:31:02
If that's improvised, I would have just slapped him.
1:31:04
I'm like get on my face like just naturally, no matter what
1:31:09
what happened on set. But like, and there's some
1:31:11
really nice twists in here. I love.
1:31:13
Then you see Cicero on the horse and you think Maximus is going
1:31:16
to get away and he's going to do it.
1:31:18
And the death of Proximo was great.
1:31:19
Just his last words are shadows and dust.
1:31:22
Yeah, it kind of brings everything together and you're
1:31:23
just waiting for the big final set piece.
1:31:26
Yeah, we're in total Spartacus territory now with the slaves
1:31:28
battling the Romans. There's probably a deleted scene
1:31:31
somewhere where someone starts shouting I'm Maximus.
1:31:34
It does feel like its own thing though, not just the RIP off,
1:31:37
and I like it a lot. Proximal refusing to let the
1:31:39
guards into the compound and instead frigging the slaves is
1:31:42
really satisfying. Completion of his arc and then
1:31:45
it being brutally starved to death, it's really tough to take
1:31:48
as is the moment just before this where Commodus turns the
1:31:50
tables and gets Lucilla to confess to everything.
1:31:53
He comes up with a busy little bees monologue and it's Phoenix
1:31:56
the best moment in the film for me.
1:31:57
Along with the scene where he kills Marcus Aurelius.
1:31:59
He's absolutely brilliant. I feel it when Cicero was
1:32:03
killed, even though he's barely been in the film.
1:32:05
And I'm always disappointed that we don't get to see Maximus
1:32:08
right into the city with his 5000 men as he planned.
1:32:11
But. Yeah, that would have been
1:32:12
amazing. Yeah, but Scott did the right
1:32:13
thing though, as the end we get with Maximus and Commodus is
1:32:16
just perfection and it's all set up here.
1:32:18
Really great stuff. Yeah.
1:32:20
Yeah, really exciting. I love how it just takes you
1:32:23
from 1 extreme to the other because you think right Crackers
1:32:25
is on side now. Maximus is Maximus knows his
1:32:29
arm. You just waiting for him.
1:32:30
It's all come together and then Lucia's opens his little yap and
1:32:34
tells comedy as everything that's going on.
1:32:35
So then comedy reacts and I love that bit where he puts the he
1:32:39
puts the snake and guys his bed to kill him off.
1:32:42
That's just really horrible. What's not snakes?
1:32:44
Yeah, really like gives me the creep watching that bit.
1:32:48
I love all. I love how it's shot like when
1:32:50
they're riding into the slave compound at night.
1:32:53
I think it all looks fantastic, and it's just great how they're
1:32:55
all united behind Maximus now. They're just like one solid
1:32:58
unit. There's not one dissenting voice
1:33:01
in there. Like they don't even question
1:33:02
it. Of course we're going to fight.
1:33:04
I mean, you mentioned sister, but I'm always quite sad to see
1:33:06
Harken Gore. He's the big German guy.
1:33:08
Yeah, who he did online to be still really memorable.
1:33:12
And he gets killed. He gets by like 5 hours in the
1:33:14
chest, whatever. Five hours, that's what you
1:33:16
need. Well, that's what.
1:33:17
Isn't it? So yeah, I'm sad to see.
1:33:21
Sad to see. Proximo Gore.
1:33:22
I mean, obviously they had the hands tied with what they could
1:33:26
do with that scene, getting in that shadows and dust, it kind
1:33:31
of works. But then when you realise it's
1:33:33
quite clearly taken from an early scene because you can see
1:33:35
the people behind them, the gladiators and the tunnel at the
1:33:38
time, it sticks out a bit. But what else could they do
1:33:41
really? But yeah, the whole thing really
1:33:43
enjoyable and it just feels like you really set up for the
1:33:45
finale. And the one thing as well in
1:33:49
this whole sequence towards the end is that it's one thing that
1:33:52
really, really pisses me off. And that's the performance from
1:33:54
the kid who does, who plays Luscious and he's having that
1:33:57
sword fight. It's when he's going there,
1:33:59
there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there,
1:34:02
there for about 20 minutes, there, there, there, there,
1:34:05
there, there, there, there, there.
1:34:07
I've never noticed there. And then he goes, and then he
1:34:10
goes. And then I got you like a little
1:34:12
prick there, there, there, there, there.
1:34:15
And then I got you. I wish you would die at that
1:34:17
point. Like I honestly ruins the film
1:34:20
for us at that point and I'm quickly out of it, but oh God
1:34:24
that is so annoying. So we mentioned there that this
1:34:27
is the moment that Proximo was killed.
1:34:29
Proximo was a slave trader who buys Maximus and has him trained
1:34:31
up with a gladiator, and as a former champion Gladiator
1:34:34
himself becomes a mentor of sorts to Maximus.
1:34:37
He's played by the one and only Oliver Reed, who famously passed
1:34:40
away during filming. Reed said that he took the role
1:34:43
because he fancies a trip to London to see a couple of shows.
1:34:48
We may not get a chance to talk about Oliver Reed again, So what
1:34:51
are our thoughts on him in Gladiator?
1:34:54
It's just really poignant, isn't it?
1:34:56
Because I think Oliver Reed, I think a lot of people have
1:34:59
forgotten what a real talent he was.
1:35:01
And obviously he did struggle with his own demons.
1:35:04
And I think that did lead to him losing a lot of years to drink
1:35:08
basically, when he could have been doing great work instead.
1:35:10
And if he hadn't done that, he would have been and he should
1:35:13
have been talked about as Richard Howes has talked about
1:35:16
or Peter O'Toole or any of those guys.
1:35:19
And it's sad that he wasn't. So when you watch him in this,
1:35:21
it feels like this was going to be the film that kick started
1:35:24
his career again. It was going to be a comeback.
1:35:26
He was proving to people how good he was.
1:35:28
Because he does. He makes Proxima such a stand
1:35:30
out character. He gives him like Lords of
1:35:32
Pathos and or to wit and wisdom and he's just, he pretty much
1:35:36
steals the film and every scene he's in, which when you're in a
1:35:39
film with Russell Corn, Joaquin Phoenix on the farm they're in,
1:35:42
that's pretty impressive. But there's also like a couple
1:35:46
of behind the scenes stories that sum them up for me.
1:35:48
The first one is that apparently he really, really took against
1:35:51
Russell Crowe right from the off.
1:35:54
Like Russell Crowe said, I didn't do anything.
1:35:56
I tried to, like, be friendly with him, but he just didn't
1:35:59
like me. I suspect it might be a jealousy
1:36:01
thing. He's maybe looking at Crow
1:36:02
thinking, you know what, 30 years ago, that would have been
1:36:05
my role. I would have been in your shoes.
1:36:07
Yeah. Like to the point where he
1:36:08
actually challenged Crow to a fight one point which.
1:36:12
Which would be ridiculous. And.
1:36:14
The other one is, he said of Ridley Scott, Look, I'll do
1:36:16
whatever you want, whatever scenes you want, whatever lines
1:36:19
you want open till 5:00 in the afternoon.
1:36:21
And then after that, my time is my one and Ridley scoring, Yeah.
1:36:25
So yeah, it's really poignant watching them.
1:36:27
But what are we to sign up for? Korea.
1:36:30
Yeah, so Oliver Reed died 3 weeks before production ended.
1:36:34
A legendary hellraiser. He died, fittingly, maybe in a
1:36:37
pub during a break in filming. And he died after drinking 8
1:36:40
pints of German lager, a dozen shots of rum, half a bottle of
1:36:44
whiskey, a few shots of cognac, and after beating 5 Royal Navy
1:36:48
sailors arm wrestling absolutely nuts.
1:36:52
Fell off his chair and said I don't feel very well.
1:36:56
You don't. Die.
1:36:59
At closing, the movie's insurance contract would have
1:37:01
let Ridley Scott re shoot all of Reid's scenes, but most of the
1:37:04
actors and crew were exhausted and Scott didn't want to cut
1:37:06
Reid from the movie. So William Nicholson was flown
1:37:09
back in to do rewrites and the body double and CGI were used to
1:37:12
give Reid's character a different ending to what he
1:37:14
originally had. I think it works really well.
1:37:17
It never feels like we're not watching Oliver Reid, I don't
1:37:19
think. And the way things end for the
1:37:20
character works well now and every as well.
1:37:22
I wouldn't have ever normally been rewrite that late in the
1:37:24
day. Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love
1:37:27
him. I love him in this as as the
1:37:30
character that he plays because he just plays Oliver Reed.
1:37:32
He doesn't really play at Proximo.
1:37:34
He just plays himself. And he always kind of has and he
1:37:37
always spoke to himself as if he was this incredible, magnificent
1:37:42
kind of method actor, but he never really was.
1:37:45
He was just a great actor and a great personality.
1:37:47
And I mean, if you watch him in The Devils, if you watch him in
1:37:50
the Four Musketeers, which is a classic of you watch him like
1:37:53
Oliver even he owns Oliver. He's just Oliver Reed.
1:37:56
It might as well as to be called Oliver Reed.
1:38:01
He's just himself in it and he's himself.
1:38:03
He'd be such a good actor because he just owns the space
1:38:07
and he owns the lines and he gives them so much gravitas and
1:38:11
so much weight and just so much. He just adds this production
1:38:15
value. Even when he's talking about you
1:38:17
should see the Colosseum Spaniard and you can see he gets
1:38:20
the line wrong and then repeats it again when he says it rises
1:38:23
up like he's going to say a Thunder.
1:38:25
He rises up like, like, like, like, like a storm, like the
1:38:29
Thunder got himself now you see, But you just look at it and you
1:38:32
go fuck me. He's completely owned that
1:38:34
scene. There's nobody else in it.
1:38:35
And then when Crow leaves that scene, he turns around to the
1:38:38
window and just opens his arms to the window.
1:38:41
It just, it just owns the whole fucking thing.
1:38:44
He's like, this is mine. Like, that's how powerful a
1:38:46
personality he was. That's his whole performance in
1:38:49
this film. He dives into the film and
1:38:51
embeds himself only about an inch into it because he hasn't
1:38:55
got any more room to do that. But he stays there.
1:38:58
It's impossible to ignore. It's easy to forget, but once
1:39:02
you see it and once you know how good all of these nuances are
1:39:05
and all of these little bits are, you just realize how great
1:39:08
of an actor he was. Just read Hell Raises.
1:39:11
If you haven't read that book, it's absolutely incredible.
1:39:15
It's just one after the other. Just when he went into that
1:39:17
seafood restaurant and started freeing the lobsters because he
1:39:19
thought it was unfair. So he just got all the lobsters
1:39:21
out the tank and started pushing about the toilet window.
1:39:24
It's just there's so many stories like that.
1:39:26
He's just unparalleled as a human being, but any but in this
1:39:29
film, unparalleled as an act. I don't think you need to see
1:39:32
Oliver read and anything else. You watch him in Gladiator and
1:39:35
go, that's Oliver Read. Well, also apparently, I'm not
1:39:38
sure how much I believe this, but I read it online when the
1:39:41
film was announced. Scott didn't want Oliver read
1:39:44
for proxy more and he did consider somebody else.
1:39:47
OK, Arnold Schwarzenegger. I know it was Arnold.
1:39:50
Yeah, I knew you were going to say it.
1:39:53
Imagine. Oh God, should have had all this
1:39:55
maximus. I've waited all this time for
1:39:58
you to come up with that. I think Arnold should have been
1:40:01
tigress of goal. That would have been sweet,
1:40:03
that. Would have worked.
1:40:05
As we approach the end of the film, Scott begins to carefully
1:40:07
pull the threads together. A few characters go during the
1:40:10
slave revolt, and all that's left now was for one final
1:40:12
showdown in the Colosseum. Here we go.
1:40:18
Are you in danger of becoming a Goodman?
1:40:21
So after Maximus is recaptured and taken back to the slave
1:40:24
quarters beneath the Coliseum, comedist pays him a visit and
1:40:27
tells him he's going to face him in the arena, but not before
1:40:29
literally stabbing him in the back to weaken him.
1:40:32
It doesn't work. Maximus kills Commodus and joins
1:40:35
his family in the afterlife before being carried out of the
1:40:37
Coliseum. A legend of Rome.
1:40:41
Our final time in the Coliseum and the final time with the two
1:40:44
main characters. Thoughts on this one?
1:40:46
I think by this point the film has made a little bit of a rod
1:40:50
for its own back because we know Common isn't really going to be
1:40:53
any kind of match physically for Maximus, which is why does the
1:40:57
stabs and before the go up, but I think everyone else
1:41:00
compensates for that. So like in terms of spectacle,
1:41:03
yeah, OK, it might be a little bit anti climactic, but what
1:41:07
you're getting said is just how well it lands the emotional
1:41:10
beats if they seem because you want to see Maximus kill
1:41:13
Commodus so much by this point. I mean, I think you said it
1:41:16
earlier, John. No, no death would be too good
1:41:18
for Commodus at this point. So it's just so enormously
1:41:22
satisfying to see Maximus take him out.
1:41:25
And I do like how actually, when it comes down to it, Commodus
1:41:28
does, he isn't any match for him.
1:41:31
You know, he's just made it look like such, like the the small
1:41:34
and ineffectual person that he is.
1:41:36
So I do like that. And, and what I really love is
1:41:40
just before the start fighting is all the sound drops and you
1:41:43
just see a Maximus take that big breath in.
1:41:46
You just say, yeah, just having himself together because he
1:41:50
knows he's obviously losing blood.
1:41:51
He doesn't know how long he's got left and he's just got to
1:41:53
focus. This is it.
1:41:55
This is everything he's been building towards for the last
1:41:58
few weeks. Someone saw however long it took
1:41:59
to get him here. And he just has to gather
1:42:01
himself one more time. And I love that about it.
1:42:04
So yeah, there's bigger and better fight scenes in the film,
1:42:07
but when that music kicks in and the Curry Maximus out of there
1:42:11
and no one looks twice at Commodus line in the dust, he's
1:42:13
already been forgotten about. Yeah.
1:42:15
It's probably the most emotional scene Ridley Scott has ever
1:42:18
directed, and to be fair, he absolutely nails it.
1:42:22
Yeah, I think there's a climax. This is just such a perfect way
1:42:24
to end things. At the end of it all, everything
1:42:26
is stripped away and we're left with Maximus and Commodus
1:42:29
fighting in the Colosseum. Perfect.
1:42:32
The fights, really well choreographed, Maximus killing
1:42:34
calmness in the way that he does works perfectly, and I think the
1:42:37
whole thing is just a really satisfying way to end it all.
1:42:40
And I really feel it. I feel it when Maximus relays
1:42:43
the wishes of Marcus Aurelius the Quintus despite barely being
1:42:46
able to stand. I feel it when his final word I
1:42:48
tell the seller his son safe. I mean is this like the greatest
1:42:51
guy ever or what? Yeah, it really.
1:42:54
Is and I feel it when Juba says you'll see Maximus again.
1:42:57
Oh yeah, totally. I find it all really moving, to
1:43:00
be honest, and there's a lot of great things going on.
1:43:02
Crowing the cast of Grave. The inside of the Coliseum looks
1:43:04
ridiculous, but it's the music that's doing the most of the
1:43:08
work here for me. From the point where Maximus is
1:43:10
standing with his hand out, which is before he collapses, to
1:43:12
the end credits, there's a running musical pieces in the
1:43:14
background that is just incredible.
1:43:16
It goes from Elysium I mentioned before into one chord honor him
1:43:20
and then into now we are free. Next thing you're watching, do
1:43:23
not know us, pay attention to the music.
1:43:24
It carries the film across the line for me.
1:43:26
It's just stunning and delivers all the emotional beats at the
1:43:28
end. And I mean that last shot inside
1:43:31
the Colosseum where Marcus has carried away like a hero.
1:43:33
Everybody rises and common. His body is just left behind,
1:43:36
ignored in the heap, the whole thing genuinely one of the more
1:43:39
satisfying climaxes to a film I've seen.
1:43:42
I absolutely love it. Perfect, Yeah.
1:43:44
Yeah. Just imagine if the Beam
1:43:46
brothers. Obsessed with this like would
1:43:54
have been exactly the same it would have been exactly the
1:43:56
same. There's there's nothing you can
1:44:01
say about about the last, what, 2025 minutes of Gladiator that
1:44:04
it's, it's going to be detrimental to the whole film.
1:44:07
It's absolutely takes every single box and there's so many
1:44:11
things that are brought home here that people don't realize
1:44:14
or how clever it is, you know, smile for me now, brother.
1:44:17
And he actually says that he thinks he's going to get away
1:44:20
with it. He's he's fixed the fight as he
1:44:22
as Commodus used to do. But the great thing for me is
1:44:25
that hidden knife, they both die by the same weapon.
1:44:28
That's what he kills Commodus with.
1:44:30
So if he hadn't stabbed him, he wouldn't have it.
1:44:32
So if he didn't have that that disadvantage, he wouldn't have
1:44:34
the advantage, which is so clever.
1:44:37
It's just really well played. And I love the way Quintus as
1:44:39
well. It doesn't get enough here
1:44:41
because he's never ever the good guy.
1:44:43
He's always a bastard, the bodyguard, like he's always a
1:44:48
piece of shit. Are you armed, Quintus?
1:44:50
Yeah, yeah. She's like, she's your swords,
1:44:52
she's your swords. And he's like, now give him a
1:44:54
fair fight. So he comes back and he's on
1:44:56
Maximus aside, and everyone kind of knows that he's at a
1:44:58
disadvantage. And this whole sequence is so
1:45:00
well done. It's so well choreographed.
1:45:02
Like you guys have said, music is brilliant.
1:45:05
And the one thing that I really, really love about this sequence
1:45:07
is it's a, it's a climactic sword fight where there's no
1:45:10
dialogue. And what I hate, hate, hate in
1:45:14
films is when there's a fight with a sword, especially a sword
1:45:17
fight or a lightsaber fight, or it's something of close combat,
1:45:21
of a fist fight. And then they come together and
1:45:23
they have a little bit of a line of dialogue will never be yours.
1:45:26
It will always be a Senate, what will always be a Republic.
1:45:28
And then they're pushing each other.
1:45:29
It's just, you know, like. What do you have read the first
1:45:33
draft of the film. I have, I've wrote it.
1:45:35
That's why. But that's the thing.
1:45:38
I think the first draft would have had them things in it.
1:45:40
It's just so cliche and it's so it's like so Pirates of the
1:45:42
Caribbean where they're all like come together and it's like,
1:45:45
what about this? And I I will never be free of
1:45:47
you and she will always be mine. Never.
1:45:51
It's just a fucking. This is the exact opposite.
1:45:54
This is exactly what you want from a climactic sword fight
1:45:57
where it's just shouting and grunting and just fucking yes,
1:46:01
let's get this done. And that's what works for me.
1:46:03
And that's why the climax works so well, because there's no
1:46:05
cheese here, there's no ham here.
1:46:07
It's just 100% beautifully shot, beautifully choreographed,
1:46:11
beautifully directed, beautifully acted, beautifully
1:46:14
played out. The music kicks fucking ass.
1:46:16
It's a perfect finale of any film.
1:46:18
It's absolutely fucking great. Yeah.
1:46:20
I mean, I think we all love that final shot as well.
1:46:22
But the interesting thing about that is that originally that was
1:46:26
going to be Proximo in the last scene as well, burning those
1:46:28
figurines in the sand. Obviously a lot of rewrite that
1:46:31
when he passed away. So that's how it becomes Juba at
1:46:34
the end. Before he had someone to see his
1:46:35
family in Africa. And I think that's a really nice
1:46:37
touch, actually. I do like how he's in a similar
1:46:40
position to Maximus in the film, but he's the one that gets to go
1:46:43
home. Yeah, it could have been great
1:46:44
with Proximo in there, but I don't think I'd change it, to be
1:46:46
honest. I think it works really well
1:46:48
there. Cuba is more than a common man
1:46:50
and it shows how Maximus touched everyone, not just the sandals
1:46:52
and the nobleman and stuff like that.
1:46:54
Yeah, yeah. And then he says he's going to
1:46:56
see him again, but not yet, which means that Juba is going
1:46:58
to look for his family. And it just, it has that extra
1:47:01
story in that extra element, which works really well.
1:47:03
But unlike the death of Maximus, apparently he didn't die in the
1:47:08
original version of the script. And Ridley Scott and Russell
1:47:11
Crowe changed it on the set. So I've got a quote.
1:47:14
I've got a quote from Crow. This is fucking great.
1:47:16
This is like something I would say self praise, No praise.
1:47:20
Great, I would say it. Taking something, Tony out of
1:47:27
context and putting it in that context.
1:47:29
Yeah, brilliant. I remember originally coming up
1:47:32
to me on set and saying, look, the way this is shaping up, I
1:47:35
don't see how you live. This character is about one act
1:47:38
of pure vengeance for his wife and child.
1:47:40
And once he's accomplished that, what does he do?
1:47:43
Does he end up running a fucking pizzeria by the Colosseum?
1:47:48
That's exactly one thing. What else does he do?
1:47:50
What does he do after that point?
1:47:52
He's not going to take over. He's already said he wants out.
1:47:54
He has to die. Yeah.
1:47:55
Fantastic. Narratively he has to go,
1:47:57
doesn't he? What is the left?
1:47:58
Yeah, definitely. But I think the regret of that
1:48:01
as well, because we are going to talk about it in a minute, but
1:48:03
they are sequels that have come up.
1:48:04
And I do think Russell Crowe is kind of pissed off that he did
1:48:08
die in the foot, even though it is perfect.
1:48:10
But I do think he would love to relive that role again.
1:48:13
So we're at the end of Gladiator then?
1:48:15
Scott pulls things together very nicely, and with those two
1:48:17
sequences, the slave revolt and Maximus killing Commodus before
1:48:21
succumbing to his own wound and rejoining his family, it
1:48:23
certainly has some power. Yes it does.
1:48:26
Certainly does reception and awards.
1:48:58
We said right at the start of the show that Gladiator was an
1:49:00
instant iconic classic, and the stats and figures from the time
1:49:03
back that up as well. On a budget of $103 million,
1:49:07
Gladiator took $457.6 million at the box office and see if I
1:49:12
could budget within two weeks of its release.
1:49:15
Could have built 4 colosseums with that.
1:49:18
Critics wise, the film had some mixed responses.
1:49:21
Roger Ebert. Do you think Roger liked it?
1:49:24
I think he kind of half like I'll give him like two 2 1/2.
1:49:29
He gave Vardy that two stars out of four and said it looks muddy,
1:49:33
fuzzy and indistinct. The writing employs depression
1:49:36
as a substitute for personality and believes that if characters
1:49:39
are bitter and morose enough, we won't notice how dull they are.
1:49:43
But maybe in ancient Rome, Yeah, depression is a character trait.
1:49:46
Let's look at the fucking state of the place.
1:49:50
That's why it looks muddy. Yeah, exactly.
1:49:52
Magazine did like it, giving it four stars out of five, and they
1:49:55
said while it's all grand opera and driven by flipping gestures
1:49:58
and pompous overwritten dialogue, the sheer dynamism of
1:50:01
the action, coupled with Hans Zimmer's lavish score in the
1:50:03
force field of Crow still makes this a fearsome competitor in
1:50:06
the summer movie stakes. Yes, great.
1:50:10
OK, very much. The Hollywood Reporter said,
1:50:13
emphasizing Brown over brain. Gladiator is an impressive
1:50:16
accomplishment in its recreation of the Roman Empire, but by the
1:50:19
gladiator games themselves is designed for mindless spectacle
1:50:22
to please the multitudes. Fair enough.
1:50:27
Whatever. On Rotten Tomatoes, Gladiator
1:50:29
has 77% from critics and 87% from audiences, and The Lime DB
1:50:35
has an impressive 8.5 out of 10, which leaves it 43rd in the IMDb
1:50:40
Greatest movie list. To recap, on the Oscars,
1:50:44
Gladiator won five, which for for Best pitcher, Best actor for
1:50:47
Crow, Best Costume design for Jandy Yates, Best Sound and Best
1:50:50
Visual Effects, and it was nominated for seven.
1:50:54
They were best director, best supporting actor for Phoenix,
1:50:57
best original screenplay, best art direction, best
1:51:00
cinematography, best film editing, and best score for Hans
1:51:03
Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard. Let's put that right.
1:51:06
Yeah, let's put that right. Yeah, so I'm not sure you can
1:51:11
really argue with much of that. A claim across the board, mostly
1:51:14
for Gladiator. Slightly disappointing from
1:51:16
reception from critics, maybe. But Despite that, it's gone
1:51:19
down. There's the biggest sword and
1:51:20
sandals classic this century, I think.
1:51:22
Oh, easily. Easily, Yeah, yeah.
1:51:25
I mean, it's not much competition to be fair, no.
1:51:27
No. Wrath of the Titans.
1:51:31
Kingdom of Heaven no sequels and influence.
1:51:41
There's been no sequels of Gladiator, of course, but
1:51:44
disturbingly, we came very close once or twice to getting one.
1:51:49
Have you heard about these projects?
1:51:51
I've heard a couple. So the first one in June 2001
1:51:56
after Gladiator was a huge hit. John Logan who Co wrote
1:51:59
Gladiator wrote a sequel so it was sent 15 years later.
1:52:03
And there's about an older Lucius that's Lucilla's son
1:52:06
searching for the truth about his biological father.
1:52:09
Rubbish it also there. There, there, there, there,
1:52:13
there he is. It's me, biological father.
1:52:15
That's it. The film it.
1:52:16
Also apparently included the resurrection of Maximus.
1:52:20
This isn't just nonsense. Scott and Crow were both
1:52:22
interested. Scott said never went anywhere
1:52:25
because he preferred a grounded approach, whereas Crow was
1:52:27
interested in making the sequel more fantastical.
1:52:30
As recently as 2018, though, Ridley Scott was still talking
1:52:33
about making a sequel. So watch this space maybe.
1:52:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd rather not.
1:52:40
You said there was a fantastical option as well, and there was a
1:52:44
script for that written by Nick Cave of all people, who I
1:52:47
completely adore. Let's be honest.
1:52:48
Have you heard about this one? I have not.
1:52:51
I'd fight in the Coliseum to hear about this.
1:52:54
Be fantastic. So Nick Cave wrote a sequel
1:52:56
featuring a time travel in Maximus.
1:53:02
Cave dealt with Honest to God, he's some boy.
1:53:06
Cave dealt with the whole Maximus is dead problem by
1:53:08
having the Roman gods reincarnate him.
1:53:10
That already sounds pretty cool. All right, the gods reincarnate
1:53:13
him and that's all right. But the plan was to have him
1:53:16
then somehow transported to World War 2, the Vietnam War,
1:53:20
then modern day general at the Pentagon.
1:53:24
Why? The studio rejected it.
1:53:27
The studio idiots. Sounds like Time Cop.
1:53:35
I mean, that sounds ridiculous, but we've talked before about
1:53:37
big films that end up popular culture and how they tend to be
1:53:40
the ones that have the biggest impact.
1:53:41
Influence. Yeah, I think is one of those
1:53:44
movies. So how and where do you see its
1:53:46
influence today or since its release?
1:53:48
Say launch the place is I think the fact that Ridley Scott had a
1:53:52
reinvigorated career off the back of this.
1:53:54
I think they made household names certainly out of Russell
1:53:56
Crowe, really set off Joaquin Phoenix where we know today.
1:54:01
And just look at all the imitations that followed
1:54:04
Alexander, Kingdom of Heaven, Troy, Exodus, absolutely Lords.
1:54:07
And even on TV there was, I don't know if you guys ever saw
1:54:10
it, but there was a HBO series called Rome, which was after
1:54:14
this, which was pretty good actually.
1:54:17
Of all the things that followed, gladly, that's probably the
1:54:19
best. Game of Thrones, obviously,
1:54:21
which we mentioned earlier on in Spartacus from a few years back.
1:54:25
So yeah, it was really influential, I think.
1:54:28
Yeah, I know that away from Hollywood, Gladiator had a
1:54:30
direct impact on an increased interest in Roman history,
1:54:33
particularly in the US after it came out.
1:54:36
The New York Times called that the Gladiator Effect, and books
1:54:39
like Cicero's biography and Marcus Aurelius Meditations
1:54:42
received massive spikes in sales after Gladiator's release.
1:54:45
And film wise, like what said they in the years I felt glad
1:54:48
the year that we had Troy, King Arthur, Alexander 300, the last
1:54:51
Samurai, Kingdom of Heaven, historical epics were big news
1:54:54
for a while. It didn't change filming, I
1:54:56
don't think in any way, but it certainly had influence for a
1:54:59
while. Without doubt, yeah.
1:55:00
Yeah. I mean just exactly what you
1:55:02
guys have said. I mean, it's taken that
1:55:05
historical element and then adding an element of realism.
1:55:08
And I think what that's what that did was add that element of
1:55:11
realism to these films because everything was quite fantastical
1:55:14
before Gladiator and like the Millennium kicked in and
1:55:17
everyone kind of wanted to go back to this realistic look,
1:55:20
this kind of realistic. You can smell it, you can touch
1:55:23
it, you can taste it kind of vibe.
1:55:24
And I don't think like you guys have said, I mean, you know,
1:55:27
most of it was directed by Ridley Scott, to be fair.
1:55:29
Kingdom of Heaven, even like Robin Hood, Exodus, gods and
1:55:32
Kings like and you know, it did have that kind of vibe, but it
1:55:37
did open up the doors to these great fantastical set pieces and
1:55:42
add this element of reality. And then you get that element of
1:55:45
reality that's subjective and then it's subverted and you get
1:55:49
the likes of 300, which comes off the back of Gladiator
1:55:53
definitely. And then from 300, you get all
1:55:56
of the advances towards the Marvel Universe and all them big
1:56:00
films and, you know, the use of CGI and how that was pioneered.
1:56:03
And I don't think that should be overlooked.
1:56:05
So I think without Gladiator and without the, you know, the
1:56:08
groundbreak and visuals and that kind of vibe that Ridley Scott
1:56:12
brought to it and that huge grandiose look, I don't think
1:56:16
you would have like Avengers end game.
1:56:19
What's the end of that? That could be the opening battle
1:56:22
of Gladiator, but just bit just bigger on a bigger scale with
1:56:26
300 mixed in. You've got that.
1:56:28
But what what did that before Gladiator?
1:56:30
Nothing. So it's got a huge, huge
1:56:32
influence if it's not massively obvious.
1:56:35
But if you look at it from a Miller filming point of view,
1:56:37
from CGI point of view, from a progressive point of view, it's
1:56:40
very, very influential. Well, like, I know there's no
1:56:43
doubt Gladiator had a big impact not just in Hollywood, but on
1:56:46
general interest in the Ancient Rome for a while.
1:56:48
And judging by how Gladiator ends, you'd think there'd be no
1:56:51
chance of a sequel. But where there's a box office,
1:56:53
there's a way in Hollywood. So watch out for the time
1:56:56
travelling Maximus taking down Hitler or whatever Nick Cave
1:56:58
comes up with or. Whatever I'll come up with, I'm
1:57:02
working on it now. All right, you need to do the
1:57:08
man thing. So that is that some Gladiator.
1:57:13
We've been through the full behind the scenes story and now
1:57:15
is the time when we decide where the film will sit in the all the
1:57:18
right movies leaderboard. So, Wesley, you want to kick us
1:57:21
off your summary in school for Gladiator, please?
1:57:25
Right. Well, I mean, I think I've laid
1:57:27
down how much I love this film. I do love it and it is great.
1:57:32
It's it's fantastic. In fact, it's just such a
1:57:34
wonderful experience, especially in the cinema, especially being
1:57:37
19 year old and being really interested in film and walking
1:57:40
in to see this and you just go, holy shit, this is my son.
1:57:43
This is my sword and sandals epic.
1:57:45
I now have one for my generation.
1:57:47
Thank you Ridley Scott, this is fantastic.
1:57:49
Thank you Russell Crowe. This is unreal.
1:57:50
This is what a man should be like.
1:57:52
Let's all try and be more like this guy.
1:57:54
So from that, at that age, it was absolutely perfect.
1:57:57
But as time goes on, CGI kind of dwindles a little bit, just some
1:58:03
elements of the story, kind of, you know, you were so excited
1:58:06
when you first saw it and it kind of dwindles a little bit.
1:58:08
And the discussions we've had about the script, some of the
1:58:11
dialogue, this film was in the right hands and it had the right
1:58:15
people to just fix it. I think.
1:58:19
I don't think it was a perfect piece that was brought to them.
1:58:21
I think this needed fixing and I think it needed a lot of
1:58:24
attention. And I think that attention was
1:58:25
brought by Ridley Scott, by Russell Crowe and it was saved
1:58:31
from a pretty bad, pretty simple script.
1:58:35
So from that premise and you, you, you see the, the, the
1:58:38
Colosseum is incredible, the spectacles incredible.
1:58:41
The vibe of it still really works, the emotions still there.
1:58:43
I think it's a timeless story. I do think it has that emotion.
1:58:47
I think the score is fucking incredible.
1:58:49
I would listen, just listen to the score going for a run and
1:58:51
listen to the score and have just gone for a drive And as the
1:58:53
score washing the dishes, everything gets done quicker
1:58:55
with a lot more emotion and you appreciate the dishes you bought
1:58:58
4 years ago and you just think that's just incredible.
1:59:01
So this whole thing is a spectacle and it's wonderful,
1:59:03
but it has aged and there are some certain bits, certain bits
1:59:07
of dialogue, certain bits of story that do seem clunky,
1:59:09
certain bits of CGI. Towards the end of the film when
1:59:12
Commodus is standing on his balcony and he turns around and
1:59:14
roams behind him, it's just so bad.
1:59:18
So for that reason it does lose a point because it's not a
1:59:21
perfect script, it's not a perfectly realised film, it does
1:59:25
seem a bit pushed together, but for what it is, it's absolutely
1:59:27
massive. It's majestic.
1:59:29
It's a nine on 10 for me. I do love it, but it does have
1:59:33
its floors and it does show its age now and for that reason it's
1:59:35
a nine on 10. 9 out of 10. I thought you might be going for
1:59:38
A10 there, Wesley, the way you were talking before.
1:59:40
But no, I mean, it's huge, isn't it, Gladiator?
1:59:45
Absolutely massive. And it had to be when it's
1:59:47
pitching the take us back to the days of the Colosseum and show
1:59:50
us the glory of ancient Rome. We need to see spectacle, and
1:59:53
that's exactly what Gladiator and Ridley Scott gives us.
1:59:55
The cast are fantastic. The old guard of Richard Harris,
1:59:58
Oliver reading, Derek Jack. I'll be sure they've still got
2:00:00
it. Connie Nielsen's excellent too.
2:00:02
But it's the performances of and dynamic between Russell Crowe
2:00:05
and Joaquin Phoenix as Maximus and Commodus that gives the film
2:00:09
its backbone. They're brilliant.
2:00:11
The writing might not be the best I've ever talked about, but
2:00:13
it does what it needs to and it works well.
2:00:16
But it's the recreation of Rome for me, the effects work, the
2:00:19
production design, the costume design, the attention to detail,
2:00:22
the research that is outstanding.
2:00:24
And it's that what keeps me coming back for re watches of
2:00:27
the film. So for the iconic performances,
2:00:30
the visuals, the torn Scott creates, the creation of this
2:00:33
ancient civilization, this could have been a masterpiece, but the
2:00:36
writing pulls it down slightly for me.
2:00:39
And there should have been brothers so.
2:00:45
OK, now. It's a nine out of 10 for me as
2:00:47
well. Turn it into a West Side Story.
2:00:51
What? A musical dancing that would.
2:00:59
Be great, my name is Maximus Isimus.
2:01:04
Clicking the fingers all I got here as I click it across the
2:01:06
Coliseum. You fucking madness that.
2:01:09
Oh, that's what Spielberg's version is like.
2:01:13
And Matteo's summary in Scope of Gladiator, please.
2:01:16
Yeah, I think one thing about Gladiator is that what it does
2:01:19
and what it gets right is actually harder than it looks.
2:01:22
Because we've already mentioned all the films that came after
2:01:25
this. I mean, Ridley Scott tried twice
2:01:28
with Kingdom of Heaven and Exodus, both nowhere near this
2:01:31
Alexander Troy, nowhere near the level of quality that you get
2:01:35
from this film. And that's why I think the film
2:01:38
does deserve a bit more credit than it gets from a lot of
2:01:41
people, because to get this right is easier said than done,
2:01:44
particularly when, as we've mentioned, they had a very, very
2:01:48
heavily rewritten script to work with.
2:01:51
So it's really Scott back on form, visually mostly amazing.
2:01:56
Some ropy shots now, unfortunately.
2:01:59
And it is helped so much by those performances of Crow and
2:02:02
Phoenix and then the likes of Reed and Nielsen in support.
2:02:05
They add so much to it and they give so much weight to this film
2:02:08
and the whole thing moves it at an incredible pace.
2:02:11
But it is a film where there's not much going on beneath the
2:02:14
surface and not every film needs to have a deep script.
2:02:17
But I do think Gladiator at times thinks it's a bit more
2:02:20
intelligent than it is. And I think that's because got
2:02:23
rewritten so many times. The stuff left in there about
2:02:26
the Senate, that was in like draft 13 before they got the
2:02:29
draft 57, which is the one they used.
2:02:33
And I also have to judge it for me against what are rated Alien
2:02:36
when we covered that and what are Blade Runner because they
2:02:39
are his two best. This is probably comfortably his
2:02:43
third best film, but it's not there with him.
2:02:46
So for that reason, taking all that into account, I am very
2:02:49
entertained. I've always got time for this
2:02:51
film. I just needed to be a bit more
2:02:53
substantial to hold together a bit more.
2:02:56
So it gets an 8.50. Right.
2:03:00
So another benefit of being a page run is that your vote will
2:03:02
come for a law and deciding the overall scores for the movies we
2:03:05
cover. So some of our patrons comments
2:03:07
on Gladiator, Kenny Morrison said it's a great old fashioned
2:03:11
Sunday afternoon watch some amazing action set pieces and
2:03:14
quotable lines and it still looks tremendous to this day.
2:03:17
Like some of you that comments, it never really caught me like
2:03:19
it did others. So it's 8.5 and he says yeah,
2:03:24
8.5 isn't an option but surely he can add that up Lads, I
2:03:27
can't. I tried Kenny.
2:03:29
I'm an idiot. Yeah, sorry, Kenny.
2:03:31
That's why Matt, that's why Matt put a .5 in so it just runs.
2:03:36
Karim Helliwell said love this film by the scoring at 9 purely
2:03:39
because it's literally just under what I class as my all
2:03:42
time classics. Which crow performance I would
2:03:44
have this and the insider do you all prefer?
2:03:47
Very quickly fellas, which is your fave?
2:03:50
This one. Yeah, this one.
2:03:52
I'm going Gladiator as well, I think he's great.
2:03:54
An insider but a lot easier to replace in that than using
2:03:56
Gladiator. Yes.
2:03:57
Yeah, that's that's a double team with with Pacino, this
2:04:00
isn't. Yeah, that's it.
2:04:03
And Adam Yates said there's so much like about Gladiator, some
2:04:06
stellar performances in there, and obviously the set pieces are
2:04:08
monumental. It's a bit too long and a fair
2:04:11
bit cheesy in parts, so I can't find the inmate to give me any
2:04:14
more than 8 out of 10. Where's it cheesy though?
2:04:18
Yeah, I don't think it's cheesy, to be honest.
2:04:21
John would be cheesy if there were brothers, I'll tell you
2:04:23
that. Wouldn't.
2:04:28
Be the gladiator brothers. Just call it that.
2:04:31
And all together, our Twitter followers rank the film as What
2:04:34
do you think? 8-9.
2:04:38
In the middle, 8.5 out of 10. 8.5 yeah.
2:04:41
So that gives Gladiator 35 out of 40 in total.
2:04:45
You can check our website for the full ranking table then to
2:04:47
see where Gladiator sits. So that's everything we have on
2:04:51
Gladiator. We hope everybody has been
2:04:53
entertained, hopefully. So.
2:04:55
Open a couple of weeks time. Choose life, choose a career,
2:04:59
choose all the right movies as Matt, Luke and Pi are going
2:05:02
behind the scenes on British iconic classic Trainspotting.
2:05:07
Should be good, right Matt? Should be should be full of
2:05:10
light, fluffy stories, no doubt. No, no doubt about that.
2:05:13
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2:05:51
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2:05:56
My money's on map, to be honest. Yeah, nobody's that nice.
2:05:59
Nobody. 'S that nice?
2:06:00
Yeah, just going to put a fight back to your boob.
2:06:06
We will see you again, but not yet.
2:06:09
Not yet, Not yet. In two weeks for Trainspotting.
2:06:12
Yeah, right. Thanks guys.
2:06:13
See you soon. Thanks guys, Stay safe.
2:06:16
We are shadows and both.