Latest / Modern Sacred: Women's Work / The Soul Work of Women's Friendships and Co-Regulation

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The Soul Work of Women's Friendships and Co-Regulation · Modern Sacred: Women's Work

• Chelsea Henderson: Hi! Hi everybody! We're together! Together in person. For those of you who don't know, Chelsea and I met in Colorado, but then I moved away. So we've had this wonderful girls trip here last week. And we were just reflecting on how we see each other several times a week, a couple of hours at a time, but this has been so different. So good. Okay, so that's what we're going to talk about today, right? Yeah. It's just friendship. Friendship and the importance of a girls trip and taking the time to like go visit your friends and visit them in person when you can. And yeah, there's the difference of being in person. All right. So then what do you think that difference is? And maybe I'm trying to probe your nurse brain here a little bit, but also like just speaking from the last few days. We see each other every week. We spend hours together. Yeah, we do. And that's very nourishing. I love it. This was like a different thing. Yeah. is a step above. It's not above. It's just different. What is that? Yeah. For me, feel like, well, it's just, so how this trip has gone, everybody, is we will wake up and talk for like four hours over breakfast. We'll wake up at like 9, eat breakfast. has the time gone? And then it's 1.30 and we're like, wow, I'm hungry again. Holy cow. And then we're like, let's go to the gym. So then we go to the gym and we work out and then we eat lunch. And then we've just been hanging out, getting a little bit of work done along the way. We've actually gotten a lot done. We have. We just work fast. We do. Wait, no, it's time to work. We get it done. Time to work. Yeah, just I had a joke last night of like, this is why we have a podcast. because you and I have talked for like 40 hours and four This has been four days of podcasting. We just haven't recorded it. And we kept being like, oh, we should be recording this. We're talking about money. We're talking about marriage, sex, desire. We're talking about mothering and our childhoods. like, oh my gosh, this is all so good. businesses, right? All of it. Yeah. So the difference, I feel like, has just been maybe this is the amount of time that we can have together and really talk and explore all the range of things. And also, like when we're on a call or we're co-working, I can't like get up and move. So instead we could be like, oh, you want to go for a walk, let's walk to the rec center, let's walk around the park. We can move, we can talk, we can get up, get a snack. We can sync up more. Yeah, not be so stationary. Well, and we can also nestle in on the couch and watch fun stuff. lots of some good stuff. Yeah. Listers. Abby introduced me to it. Watch it guys. Watch it. If you're a fan of birds and stoner dudes. No, it's really that more. It's not the bird thing. I love birds, but like that was not the thing that hooked me. It's the dudes. It's the guys. the guys. It's seeing how men can be in this. In the feminine. In this world too. yeah. In a lot of ways of like just hanging adorable brothers and their friends and. their mustaches and all of that. It's so good. Amazing. It's for free on YouTube. Yeah. And you can support them if you want to. Yeah. Love that model. Yeah. Gift economy. Yeah. So that was nice. We can just like curl up on the couch. But there's something even more too. I mean, it just, it's like, first of all, I think that we have had this space to ourselves, right? So it's like, we just kind of get to fully, you and I are very similar. We've known that for a while, but we've also really sunk into it. in this trip. We both like to go at a similar pace. We both like to sleep in. We both like to walk. know, we're walking. Yeah, we like to work out. We'll go like push ourselves hard, work our muscles and then walk. You know, like that's that's a similar vibe. Pizza. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ my God, that typhoon. Come on. That was so good. And I think there's like that is helpful. Right? You know, that's not always the vibe that you get, but then it was like being able to sink into that without anybody else's influence was nice. Yeah. So I think it's almost twofold. It's like taking the time to be with each other in person, to sync up on that almost like biological level of like just like hearing each other and that call and response of like, ⁓ this is funny. I just thought of this like, we'll yell it across the house, that kind of thing. But then there's also the like carving out time. with someone who has a similar rhythm as you. So nice. Carving out time without a lot of other things going on or other things around. It's been like a work-cation for us. It's kind of been a retreat. It has been! Because my husband is out of town. He's on a trip. So we've had the whole house to ourselves. We've just been able to really take that intentional time together. it's nice. the space to ourselves and that. Yeah. our own energy that we create together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is something special. Yeah. I need a tissue. I'm sorry. for I'm going to the bathroom. But you can still hear me. Still here. See? See? If we were recording separately, she would have just had to, you know, suck it up. Just kidding. Yeah. Well, have to mark it and edit it out. But no, we don't do that here at Modern Sacred. No. We the sweet... are the same. We say... And get the tissue. it rip. Let it rip. Let it rip. That's our stoner mentality. Let it rip. It's so fun. Yeah, just the stoner culture. We were talking about that the other day of like, you know, stoner culture can exist even if you're not smoking weed. ⁓ yeah. Because I'm not right now because I'm gonna be passing, you know, I'm getting a new nursing job when I moved to Portland and everything. Hopefully my employer's not listening to this. Jesus, our listenership has expanded. right. that point, hello. that point, you don't need the nursing job. That's true. If everybody at the office is listening. ⁓ But yeah, just like what is stoner culture? It's chill, it's creative, it's like goofy. It's laid back. Yeah. It's about having a good time, listening to good music, eating good food. It's true. And watch a movie. not been doing that during this trip. Yeah. And it's still been very much that vibe. I wonder if that's what I feel attracted to. But also you and I have talked about it. There's aspects of the stoner culture that is obnoxious. It's like no one can actually achieve anything. And everyone's kind of dumb and disconnected. And no one has any clear answers. And I don't resonate with that part. That feels more like. Bum culture. Female stoner culture or mom stoner culture. I about creative culture too. I don't know why that has to be so connected in that way, but for us, I think this week together has been a great reminder of like the authenticity piece. Like how do you feel comfortable living your day to day and truly doing that ⁓ to be yourself? And it is very, different than a lot of the everyday culture we see in other places. I mean, even us working out, you see these people in there who are just like at an 11. They're just, oh, ha, ha, ha. And I'm lifting heavier and heavier weights, but I'm doing breath work while I do it. Or what were you listening to? fucking Alice Coltrane dude and then she was like I'm listening to like Alice Coltrane jazz and I was like I'm listening to Bob Marley yes yes yes we are like on that same day and that guy who was in there yesterday who was jumping to the ceiling and back was probably listening to like Paw Patrol I don't even know he was on a whole other level like I was like oh my gosh he did not look particularly happy. But that's my judgment. I do not know that, man. Well, I've also had times which I think is just even coming to me now where I've thought, like, should we be getting more done when we're talking from 8 a.m. to 1 30? We have this list of like when first day here, I was like, okay, we should email back this person and work on this and rerecord our podcast outro and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then majority of our days were just. We're gabbing and we're hanging out. I'm like, you know, there have been times where I'm like, ⁓ should we be getting more work done? And then I'm like, no, think that it matters what energy is behind the offering. Agreed. And I feel like we actually, by the time I leave in a couple of hours, we'll have tackled a lot of that list. Yeah, we will. We've already gotten a lot of that stuff done. So it's funny how that happens, because there's that. That, think, is the cultural element of what I talk about when I, and it's not just me, but the push. That push culture that like grind, grind, Yeah, that go, go, go. It's like, I think a lot of times you're just moving to move. Moving because it's uncomfortable not to move in a culture that tells you you only have value if you're producing. And I think we're producing anxiety there. Yeah. Where Zach talks about he has this thought of like, okay, once my to do list is done, then I'll be able to. Because my list will be done but the like the trick is that the list is never done that is exactly it You get the list done and then you get two bills in the mail and a voicemail from your health insurance And you're like, okay the list got longer done. It's never done. Yes. Yes And so it's like I even think with my own mindset of like should we be getting work done? Whatever. It's like that there's an underlying belief of I we can rest together once the work is done. Yeah, but it's like Flipping that on its heads, like resting together is what gets the work It's part of the work. Yeah, It's what gets the work done, because then we can be like, OK, let's pound some stuff out for an hour. And then we do. And we're like, OK, we're done. Well, and I think that has to especially be considered when you're founding something. Yeah. You know, the founding entrepreneurial journey is a constant. The list is going on forever. then having been a part of helping to found other businesses, you recognize how the way you approach that and the energy you put into it is the energy that becomes the culture of your business. So if you're hustle, hustle, hustle, because ⁓ my God, that list will never get done. And then you're anxious. And then it's like, no, we can't sit here and enjoy a deep conversation over cups of coffee for a couple of hours because ⁓ my fucking God, the list is never going to end. Then you realize that's the culture. It's just like, we've always got to go. We've got more and more. Yeah, it's true. The list doesn't ever end because that's life. Life. Life. Well, and we talked about this with money, right? It's like, think you have to set your, again, your kind of authentic self to your goals with that kind of thing. Yeah. Right? That has to be behind it. Otherwise, you hit those benchmarks along the way that you thought was the thing, and they don't mean anything. Yeah. Because you've been restricting, like we had just talked about like budgeting or just when it comes to money and what that journey has been like for each of us just growing up, I'm more of like a hoarder, I'll hoard my money. Chelsea's more of like a spender and like both of us are seeking control and freedom in different ways with that. But like, or even like with dieting or whatever where it's like, okay, you're in a restriction or you're holding onto your money in order to get to this benchmark like you were saying and then. You get there and you realize the life I've been living has been not in alignment to get here. And then it can be hard to know when to pull back. I'm at my goal weight. So I mean, can eat at maintenance now? You mean I don't have to be in a restriction? Or like, I've paid off all my debt. So that means I can spend money on a trip now. And it can be really hard to break out of that. I don't want to into that habit in our business where we put work before friendship. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it can be hard to come back from that if you do that for two, three years in the building phase, thinking, OK, let's just push for three years while we're building. Well, like you said, it's not like at three years the to-do list goes away. And then peace descends upon you. No, none of that is how it goes. I think we talked about this a little bit. And I don't know, maybe this is me trying to do the thing that I. talk shit about other people doing and wanting to find something to blame. But it's like, is this, you know, living in Western culture? Is this capitalist culture? Is this patriarchal culture? I don't know. And maybe that doesn't matter, but it feels like it's the moving target of it all. Yeah. Right. Like, ⁓ I'll be wealthy when I get the six figure job. When I got the six figure job, I was so uncomfortable with who I was, who you had to be to get there. Exactly. In that position that it wasn't success. Yeah. So that was a big ⁓ shift in my perspective. Yeah. And that, think, for us building a business is exactly it. I we just got this lovely offer from someone, and it meant a weekly, daily commitment of time. And we realized it stressed us out, because neither of us, that's not what we are doing. here. are inconsistent in our consistency or consistent in our inconsistency. don't know how to put it, but it's like even for me, and I know I feel like you and I have this in common, is like my daily practices of self-care, of my self-actualization journey change from day to day. Absolutely. I'm not the type of person who, and I've tried, who can commit to an everyday journaling. No. Everyday meditating. 100%. Everyday. exercise, it has to be fluid. What I can commit to is following my intuition. Yes, yes. is what it really is. Like today I want to go to the gym today, next day I want to watch a ton of TV and eat pizza and maybe that's good, maybe that's bad. it's usually what my body is needing something. Absolutely. And throughout the cycle of a week, of a day, of a week, of a month, of a year, they all do kind of end up consistent. Like I don't journal every day, but I journal several days throughout the month. And then at the end of the month, I can look through and reflect on that. And then throughout the year, I can keep that. And it helps me to be like, ⁓ yeah, look, have been, you know, like I don't meditate every day, but I have meditative practices that flow in and out of my days that are different. you know, the working out, like I work out a few days a week and it's like, I'm not working out five, six days a week. I'm working out three, four days a week. And it's different on those days depending. So it's like, It's not always at 8 a.m. It's, fuck no. Some days I wake up and I'm like, I'll hit my head. It's never even on paper I will write down, okay, because I try to be like, what do I want my day to look like tomorrow? Because it can be easy for me to just kind of wake up, make some coffee, sit down, watch a show, and the next thing you know, it's just like, to today. I feel that. So I'll try the night before to just write down a list of like I want to wake up, go to the gym, come home, take a shower, eat my breakfast, go do these errands, do these returns like these are this is what I want my day to look like or I want to go on a hike or whatever and most the time that I wake up the next day and that still feels true but so many days I wake up and I say no. Yeah. I don't want to go to the gym in the morning instead I am gonna watch a show and I'm going to go in the afternoon. lunch and this doesn't feel true for me in this moment. Last night Abby is different than this morning Abby and yeah just like allowing someone that wiggle room. Okay so then maybe there's also been some validation for us in the friendship moments of this trip together of ⁓ there are others who move at this speed and in this flow state. Yeah. Because that is not the culture. No it's not. If you share that with most people in this culture, there's no alignment there. It's difficult for them, and I know you and I have felt this even in our marriages, of like, that same energy isn't always there with our spouses. No, no. And if anything, I can see that it's challenging for my husband to try and be at my pace. Yeah. A slower pace. ⁓ my god. ⁓ more sleeping. He'll be like, know, testosterone peaks in the morning. So then if I'm like, ⁓ chill, it's like, there's some anxiety for them often of like, I'm at my peak performance and like, it's hard for me to sit, but like, that's what you're doing. And then there can even be some shame on his side of like, why can't I just slow down and things like that. Or the flip shame on my side. Like, why can't I just like get up and go? I mean, taking walks with my husband is hilarious because I'm a slow walker and I'll just walk consistent. My husband will walk ahead, come back, walk ahead, come back. It's like I'm walking a dog. What is this? But it's adorable. just, he comes back and he'll talk until he kind of gets out of range and come back. And I'm like, so we're maintaining a conversation, but we're not. Are we doing this together? I'm not actually sure. It feels like a bit of a relay. Yeah. Steady on. And it's great to find someone who is at your same pace. Like you said, it's so validating. very validating and comforting. Yes. And I think that is the point of friendship. Not having all of your eggs in one basket with your romantic partner ⁓ or your roommate or whoever it is where you're like, you're supposed to be my everything. And yet we are different in different ways. And one of us is compromising energetically for the other. the whole house to ourselves and just have each other's energy and like we literally legit wake up at like the same time. Yeah. And go to bed. 8.30. Yeah. We both like arise at the same time. the comfort spot. And just like it's so that's the natural spot. And there's so many like those people who are just so like what? I'm up at 5.30 and I'm at the gym by six and I'm at the and I'm like That's amazing. also, that's Zach. likes to get up at, mean, likes is maybe a strong word, but he enjoys, I don't know, he gets a lot out of getting up at 5.30, going to the gym before work, riding his bike to work, riding his bike back. And I'm like, holy shit, that is a lot for me to do. That would be a lot. That's a lot. Just finding other people that are on your same wavelength. And I think that's what we're trying. to build within Modern Sacred is just more space for connection between women who are, I wouldn't maybe say make the type A or type B, because I always get them confused. I'm like, which one's type A? Type A is maybe the 5 AM wake up. They are, yeah. I feel like in a lot of ways, Modern Sacred has a lot of type B energy. For sure. Not always. And also, I would say it's a come as you are. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we have some friends that are type a I mean, there's some women out there who are getting shit done Yeah, that's true. And okay again, though. It's not we're not not getting shit done. It's just a totally different pace I mean you and I were finding our work peaks in those like late afternoon evening hours. We're all the sudden We're like, oh shit at 730. We got to go like get dinner. We've been talking all the restaurants Yeah, exactly. We've been doing this all day and and suddenly It's time to shift, you know? And I mean, we get a lot done. That's the thing is I think as a more type B or type C or type X, I don't even know personality. I have held a lot of shame of like, I don't I don't get it, right? I'm not I can't keep up, blah, blah. It's laziness. It's whatever. And then I look and I'm like, ⁓ I founded a business. you know, we started this thing. all of these things. And it's a lot of work. think it's the, I think there's something for me about, it's that neurodiversity element, right? Of like being comfortable saying I am who I am and I am still valid and part of this system. And it turns out there's a lot of folks out there who are too. That the normative range, is perhaps not actually the norm because it's based on a very specific set of people at a certain set of times, you know, or from a certain time. And when we look at us as a whole and as individuals, there's a lot we have in common and then every single one of us is a little bit different. And so it can be done to do it at your own pace. You just have to be comfortable with shedding the expectation of the culture. That's so true. Right? Like that for me has been a big part of this. ⁓ Finally, being in a place of being like, no, I know there's something that I have that I want to share. I know there's something that resonates with others. I know there's something that others have that resonates with me. And there's a way to bring all that together to create something that can be a livelihood and a sisterhood and a community and all of that. And it's having the kind of that moment of of self. knowing and comfort and confidence of self to say, let's just do it our way. Yeah. Our way matters too. And I think even going back to that type A versus type B, because you are right. I think of my really great friend, Dani. She wakes up at 5.30. She's in bed at 8 up at 5.30. That's how her natural rhythm is. do feel like there's, I don't even know if it's type A versus type B. Or if it's just like we're all told we're supposed to be type A. Or ⁓ a certain way. Type A being up early, working out, getting shit done, meal prepping, then winding down in the afternoon hours and going to bed at eight. That's like what kind of the corporate world structure demands and school. Yes. So it's like we can think, oh, this is how I'm supposed to be. So if you're someone who has a really hard time getting up early or is more of a night owl and you get your energy later in the day, it can just feel so like I'm outside of the norm. And to find other people, other women who just validate that in you and you can find someone that's at your pace. It's just so nourishing. It's been so nourishing to be like, oh, there's nothing wrong with how I am. Yeah. And there's nothing. it's just different and just great to find. And to be in the live energy of being in person. And we kind of were like, what should we talk about on this little podcast? I'm like, friendship. Friendship and the importance of a girls trip because taking the time to fly to go visit that friend and spend a couple days together or fly somewhere new together and spend a couple days and just attuning and Even the different movies we've watched like the bird watching and then flavor trip is like this ⁓ my god European couple shout out to flavor trip. They're this European couple that they're DJs and They make food their videos are like two two and a half hours long and they DJ and they make food And they do slowly and they dance and they make art and they're they're just hanging out and that it's a similar energy to what you and I have between us. And it's like, validation on top of validation, because we both resonate with them. And it's like, there's a lot of us out here who are doing success in a different way. It looks different. Yes. Yes. And that, think, might also be a part of it, is that there's something really funny about humans, where I feel like we're almost bucking the system, which maybe that's a little extreme. Because I don't think we are, it's that kind of just the discomfort of trying to tread a new path alone. Yeah. Of like, I'm not really fitting into the groove of the path that everyone, quote unquote, is taking. I have to do it. I would like to do it my way. And then realizing it's not a lonely path. Yeah, you'll There are a lot of others. Yeah, there is. And ⁓ so there's something about that that makes it like, accessible or validating because I think at the end of the day that's humans we need that we need to feel like we belong to a group yes we're pack animals very big part of our psychology is feeling a sense of belonging and yeah you may or may not always feel that with the people in your household no no or the people that people at your job with or people in your family in your that's like community ⁓ Soul family, you know, making friendships is like we share similar energy. Yeah. I'm squeaking. Dude, I'm always squeaking in that chair. that, yeah. I have one of those crisscross chairs from Piper Song and they're so comfortable and you can move around. It's amazing. And so then you do move around a I'm always, every time we're recording, I'm always like, don't squeak. I'm gonna change it around a little bit. Well, that's me with my ever-dripping nose. I had lot of fun as a young person and now my nose drips. Yeah, I could, I could blame it on that. I think I'm just getting old and I have allergies, but that's all right. Um, yeah, I think there's, it's been an interesting path though, because I think that, um, you know, we're trying to do a pretty, it feels like we're diverting a lot, you know, cause we talk about this a lot. Okay. Like, We're passionate about doing something alternative to a lot of what we're seeing in our culture and in our country. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I'm not the person who's going to, you know, Greta Thunberg, Thunberg, is that how you say her last name? Yeah, and you nailed it. Thank you. Good. That's not an easy one. it. She deserves it. does. And I'm not going to be this brilliant, beautiful, brave young woman. First of all, I missed that boat. I think 20 years older than her, ⁓ who's going to go out there and go to the site and actively, like that just isn't, I've already kind of bought into the system enough. You know, I did get married. I did have a child. I did buy a home. I did commit to a certain geographical location. And even though we participate in our area to help volunteer with keeping things clean, help volunteer with. you know, community action, like those are smaller things. They don't feel like they're groundbreaking, right? But I still feel called to action. And I feel called to action in a way of like, my action is going to be not taking the action of what this system seems to expect from me. Being that neurodiverse girl in high school who thought, I'm stupid. I'm really, and then getting. an IQ test and realizing I'm well above average. Yeah, no, you're so fucking smart. It's not a thing. I've had so many times on this trip. are you. You are so fucking smart. Some of the words that you use, can't even re-gurg, I've thought in my head, bookmark that one. That's such a cool word. Bookmark it. It started with an S and I don't know what it was. I probably made it up. What does that mean? Yeah, you're so smart. Your vocabulary, your way of... string together thoughts. You can just tell you're very highly You're a nurse. You're a medical background and knowledge. I'm like, ⁓ my god, I want to drink it up. Like, it's awesome. It's awesome. Sometimes I'm like, it's so boring. It's not boring. It's so cool. So nerdy. Nerdy is the best. It is the best. It's the best. It's all I really aspire to be. Breeze blocks. I learned about breeze blocks. Girl. I'm putting that in my vocabulary. Hell yeah. there's a cinder block wall, but then there's like maybe a little design. The cutout. The cutout for the breeze. the breeze to flow through the blocks. So cool. It's cool. cool. Yeah. Learn different things. It's a little design tidbit. You can see them throughout history. They're very cool. It's good building. And we'll need it in the future because forced air is a lie. We tell ourselves. Yeah. We think we can control things like The air environment the weather in that way and we can't yeah, it's a short-lived Enjoy it while it lasts people cuz you're not gonna have a couple generations ⁓ But you were talking about not really like smart right? Yes, and then and then getting tested and realizing it wasn't that I was intellectually Inequipped it was that I was trying to contort myself into a system that did not fit me I did not fit it. One thing didn't fit the other there. And feeling this isolation, this shame, this pressure, OK, well, I got to figure out a way to fit in there then. So then I'm young, and I'm like, OK, well, I'll drink a bunch of coffee. Then I found myself in that place of, OK, well, I have to seek out a diagnosis, because there's clearly something wrong here. I have ADD. I have whatever, whatever. probably did have a combination of those things. I have a processing disorder. OK, great. But who cares? What am I going to walk through the world and everybody I meet and go, I have a processing disorder? By the way, So just so you know, I'm actually really smart. Yeah. I can't regurgitate things. I can't come up with that. I know my favorite band. I can't remember their name. Yeah. I know the song. I can't tell you what it's called. It's like, no, that is dumb. I don't need to do that. So then how do I create my own little? like addendum to the system, addition, an attachment to the system so that I'm not this person who's, you beyond the pale. I'm outside. I'm going to die because I've been kicked out of the pack. You're like, turns out there's all kinds of other people over there. Yeah. You're like, ⁓ what's up? Well, and the system can like stretch and flow, right? Yeah. It's not as rigid as it seems if you'd. don't see it that way. So then I could just see it differently and kind of stretch it out to be around me and then I meet other people and I can stretch it to meet around you. And then we're kind of walking this path and we see the system over there. Hi, you know? And then more people will see people like us and say, you know, I like this of the system that I'm doing except for this part. I'm gonna shift this part. I'm gonna... Stretch and grow and it shifts and stretches and grows and you know, that's been I think a really cool thing for me to see with what we're doing here of like, okay We are reevaluating and redefining what success is for us. Yeah, so then we can bring success to ourselves to our families to the system we live in yeah without Contorting ourselves and being bitter and we hold each other I thought the word accountable comes up. I don't even feel like right word but like if one of us is starting to get a little bit spun up or spiraling into like, should be making more money or like we should be charging more, we should be working harder, let's like also get on Instagram, let's also get on these other things and like then the other can be like, well, kind of business are we wanting to create here? When I was doing business by myself, I would spiral for months and burn out. and then be like, yeah, I don't wanna do business like that, I forgot. And then slow down, and it would feel better, and then I would get triggered, and then I would spiral again into scarcity, and hustle, and grind, and thinking if I just work hard enough, then I can make this course, sell a million dollars, and then I can relax. And then I'd get all spun up, and it just was this cycle over several years of spiraling and crashing, and spiraling and crashing, and. I like together because our energy is so similar and how we're wanting to be successful looks so different that we're able to hold that energy for each other. And it's so comforting and it's so grounding. And you nailed the tone by the way. Well, yes, and we could. Or we could. Well, what's our priorities here? Because it just gives us something to respond to. if you're in that place where it's like, should also do this, this, this, this, and I'm feeling myself get a little anxious. I'm feeling myself get tight and like, holy shit, that sounds like a lot of work. How are we going to do that? What's that going to look like? We already have the podcast to edit and record and post. I'm creating merch in my head. And we're going to have a line of merch. We should have a shop. Holy shit. And I'm like, well, that's like a whole other business. Like some people's business is to sell shirts. So like if that, we're adding that on. But it allows me to respond from a more neutral nervous system in that moment and say, doesn't, that feels overwhelming to me. And there's enough safety. And it's a great idea. Between us. I can say that feels overwhelming to me right now. Maybe later. that in our pile of great ideas. Great ideas for later. And you recognize that's a part of me. kind of keeping my creative juices flowing. Yeah. Right? I am an ideator. Which I love. I love all of that. And that keeps me inspired. So if you give me five minutes to be like, OK, and we're going to have shirts, and we're going to do this, and we're going to do this, and then you're like, love it all. And remember, we work two to three days a week. So how are we going to that in? And then I'm like, great, of course. OK, so we put that in the vault and we come back to this and then we do this really well. Because someday we will have someone to edit, post the podcast. we will have someone to do all of the stuff that we're currently doing. we can pull those things off the shelf. And that's maybe the nurse brain in me is we are trained very much on order of priorities. It's brilliant. Which patient do you see first when all of them are really fucking sick? Yeah. ⁓ my god. like the nuance of like that one is 30 seconds more important than that one. like that training sticks with me where I'm like, what's our order of priorities here? that. And some of those things may be a year away. And they're great and important. And I'm excited to get to them. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's just so good. It's to have each other. And then on the other side where I can get into a lot of that scarcity, I'm like, we should charge more money. We should, you know, things like that. And it's like, well, we are wanting to do this, you know, a different way or like, let's really let that sit. And yeah, just having friends. Well, and I think partners, I feel like it's the home alone. Like, ah, right. Like, that's the moment. And I feel like we both have our own ways of getting there. You know, like I'll wake up and be like, oh, my. And I have my home alone moment. And they're for different reasons. And I think that the collaboration and the friendship and the safety of it all has allowed for both of us. Because yeah, OK, we could charge more money. But we also care about accessibility. We also care about inclusivity and collaboration. It's actually a more important value to us, especially because when we do our values exercises. which part of our talking I think was us doing that values exercise, which was on our list. So there's that. ⁓ But when we do those and we talk about money, it's like, OK, so what happens when we hit a million dollars? There is a system that exists that we are a part of that tells us, keep going, grind it out. A million's going to disappear. What are you going to do at that next turn? And I don't know. What is the idea of always getting bigger is something you and I push back. and talk about a lot is that that's that capitalism always consuming yeah and it ends up eating its own tail it ends up but yes the system starts to have to consume its own people yeah what's happening now yes so it's yeah it's like why when you hit a million dollars do you need to now hit two million It's like that's the disease. So it is the disease. And we had a great talk with someone who's going to be featured on the podcast, Carissa. Excited. She's probably already been on, actually, by the time that this goes live. So Carissa, shout out back to that episode. Time. We made it up. Time in podcast world is like, ⁓ wait, no. What's happening? We were talking with her this week. ⁓ she's a joy. What did we write down? The living of success. The daily living of success. The daily living of success. That is, yeah, what does it feel defined by us. I think that was kind of the conversation we were coming from. It's exactly that of, OK, defining it for us and then living it daily. Daily living of success. Success isn't necessarily somewhere you get to. It's a mindset that you walk every day when you are in touch with your values. And that's even where. we resonated with like the Lister's guys because they had offers from like Netflix, HBO to take their documentary off of YouTube, which is free and no ads. And to put it on one of these platforms and they refused those deals because they want it accessible to all people. And they don't have ads turned on, which is amazing. So you can watch it all the way through and not get interrupted. It's amazing. it's for free and they have their Venmo in the in... in the thing down below, can Venmo them five bucks, 10 bucks, whatever, or you can buy their bird book that they hand drew all the birds just bought their book. You did? Yeah, and I'm gonna give it to Nam for his birthday, and then we'll watch the movie. And I would fucking support the shit out of those dudes in ways that I, yeah, I'll throw some cash, but also like, I will send this to everybody that I know, because this feels good. Exactly. I wanna. hit the bomb with those dudes. I know. I want to get rib-bore and stone with those dudes and drive around. Not in that Kia. That Kia looked suspect, but in a different car. We'll rent a car. Just hang out. Use one of ours. But they probably have different cars now. I hope so. Wherever they are. that's that They did it on faith. Because it took them. And for them. They did it for them. Those were two brothers and friends and loved ones connecting. They met all sorts of cool people. They went to really amazing places in this really gorgeous country and some really not gorgeous places in this really gorgeous country. Lots of Cracker Barrels. That's a look. ⁓ And shout out Cracker Barrel. Love you guys. Overnight parking, that's extremely generous. Very generous. I love that. Yeah, that's so cool. And I love any restaurant that has a front porch. full of rocking chairs. actually I love Cracker Barrel, even though I don't really love their food. Yeah. Same. I love their dumplings though. Yes. And they have really good pancakes. ⁓ I bet they do. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So we love Cracker Barrel. Well, that's fine with us. Yeah. This is our love fest shout out. We love blisters. love Cracker Barrel. ⁓ my gosh. Flavor Trip. We love Flavor Trip. And Flavor Trip also. mean, they're just... They're putting their stuff on YouTube. There's just this amazing subculture that I think is growing of more of like a gift economy or a just a reciprocal economy where it's like, yeah, I'll put something out for you. just trust and believe that it'll come back around. Absolutely. And that is what grounds me when I'm like, should be charging more or we should need, we need to be making money or whatever. It's like, you know, just put it out for the benefit of the whole. And, know, it will come around either in new and enriching relationships because that is so nourishing. It's like you can put all of your stock in money, which is what culture at large tells us is what keeps us safe. Yeah, or you can just make really amazing friends and then turns out they've got you they have a house. No stop. Yeah, they're like you could do a retreat there and I won't you could just do it for free. Yeah, like what just let me come, know, and that has happened to us consistently, right? mean, first of all, since we've started this, look at all the brilliant humans who have entered our sphere. I mean, we're talking Sarah and Carissa and Susie and Britt and these like incredible. cool humans and then the humans we already had in our sphere, know, Sue and Katie and Rachel. mean, there's just and then those people have other connections. mean, my God, Carissa was telling us about all these connections that she has in this entrepreneurial women's kind of community in San Francisco. It's massively impressive. And that feels impressive in the material world. I'm like, ⁓ OK. Now we're like, but they're also grounded on a different level. It feels expansive. And if we were just focused on money, it wouldn't be expansive. It would be tiring. wouldn't be inclusive. No. So yeah, just great to have friends. to prioritize your friendships. Great to use that PTO. If you are somewhere out there who is in more of that, you know. corporate structure, who has a PTO bank and you're limited on the time that you can take off. If you're able to prioritize going and visiting that friend from college, going and visiting that friend that you've met online at some thing, just someone who you really prioritize their friendship. It's so worth it to nourish your friendships and live according to your values in the ways that you can and get in person with each other. I think it is beneficial, at least it is for us. ⁓ And I think that it's also inspiring me to think outside the box. Because that feels like, OK, a clear way, right? Make it happen however you can. ⁓ But then also, look at these people we're talking about. They've thought outside the box, and they're doing totally different. Maybe there's a way you can connect ⁓ while you're working your corporate job. You know, like maybe there's a way you can connect while you're driving lift. Like, I don't know, but people are brilliant. know, just like, things that are so simple, you know, just, yeah, that we forget are so accessible. Yeah, calling and catching up. And then in the modern day too, like how can we make this work in the structure that we're finding ourselves in? You know, I think there have been several moments where I'm like, I don't believe in all this. want something that feels more conscious of resources, more conscious of human energy, of what's sustainable. And it's like, got to get out. I got to get out of this system. I got to leave. I got to go live in the woods. And it's like, that's highly impractical. The reality is, this is where we are. This is where we were born. And rather than feeling Oppressed and trapped I can choose to feel grateful. Like I'm really grateful that my life expectancy is 80 plus years Yeah, know, like I'm really grateful that I have one child and he lived and he'll most likely live like that is not a guarantee He has all of his organs He has you know all of his vitamins and minerals and things that I was able to know were important and give him Consistently consistently from pregnancy on yeah, like that is something that even our grandparents generation with barely had a lot of stuff. You know, so it's like I can look around the system and be like, I gotta get out. I hate this. don't I'm so freaked out. There's so much kind of like we're on all these different sides and we oppose each other and contention and fear and scarcity. And then I can think, wait, what can I do with this? And I think that's where we're feeling inspired by what we're doing. But what we see all these really amazing humans that we've been interacting with doing and these Flavor Trip, Lister's, these creators. something different. And they're creating something that allows, there's all these different personality types in our world. There are the worker bees and bless them. They are amazing. My husband is one of those. He does it really well. He wakes up every day. He does his job really well. He supports a children's hospital in doing their brilliant work. And he is able to do it with integrity and without compromising himself. I think it's incredible. And it is not my energy. And he does it without ever being, he's never fucking around. never, he just does the work, you know? And he likes it and he's found his place. And those people, then I will find him when he's working on a big data project thing, he is listening to Trevor Noah. Do stand up. I'll put flavor chip on for him now. He'll jam out to some flavor chip. He's going to love it. he'll get that energy that these creators are making. And then he can create in his way. There's this beautiful way that we can kind of, again, stretch that system and make it for all of us to fit in. Because I think there is something that has maybe got lost in this kind of industrialist mentality of this is the path because it's just overrode so many others. And I think there's always that renaissance of artists who come out and say, you guys might want to undermine what we do because it doesn't make money. your system. It threatens, yeah, on some level. I don't know how to talk about that without judgment. So I'm always like, I'll start talking about it and then be like, ⁓ my god, stop. But it doesn't produce tangibly on the same level. And yet I think over and over again, we recognize how mandatory it is. Because even those industrialists have that call within them. They just don't produce it more naturally. But then they get it from these people over here. Yeah, they're going to Coldplay concerts. Hell yeah! And they're loving it. And they get into themselves. Kind of back to what you were saying about ⁓ being outside and finding other people. Brene Brown has a book called Braving the Wilderness. ⁓ And she just talks about that. basically kind of that hero's journey of leaving that, whether it's a corporate structure or even staying in your corporate structure, but like energetically leaving it. Yeah. And that there is like a, she calls it braving the wilderness because at first, like if you're leaving the main metropolitan area, just energetically, you're leaving it. You're on the outside of the city. You're looking back and you're seeing all of this hustle and bustle and grind and competition and everything. And then you step outside the city walls into the wilderness and there's no one. And it can be isolating and you don't, none of your friends maybe understand what you're trying to do. And no one in your office really gets what you're saying. And you feel so alone and that's the wilderness. But she talks about the further out you get from the city, you brave the wilderness alone and then you start. to find others. You find the village of yous. you find another village ⁓ of people who used to live in the city. And they also went on this journey outside. And now there's this actually beautiful little village where everybody's sharing, they're making art. And you're like, ⁓ this existed the whole time. And in some ways, there might be more people in that village than are in the city. But you just would never meet them in the city. I love it. It's like this process of. It's like that call that happens, that call it a midlife crisis, whatever that might look like or feel like, where you just kind of wake up and you're like, wanna, this just doesn't, when do I get to rest? When do I, when I'm dead? At what point do I get to relax? And you start to reevaluate your values and you go on that journey, but there's a lot of us out here. There's a lot of people who are redefining success to be a daily path and not. a place somewhere in the future that you'd get to someday. this podcast is one of those places to create that refuge. Modern Sacred. Modern Sacred, the membership, the Women's Circle, our in-person events, our online events, the collaborators that we choose to bring on are people who... share these values. They just find us. And I feel like we find each other. And I feel like we're somehow like going back to your metaphor that we're in trade with that city. Yeah. You know, like I do feel like there have been moments where it's like you go off and you create a village and you hide from this. And I feel like I'm grateful for the industrialists. You know, there are times when I hate them and then they're. But in reality, I'm grateful for it. I get to live in infrastructure. So then I think our hope is... I like to think I'm not grateful for it until I flush a toilet. Shit. Dude, you turn that faucet and actually clean water comes out and you're like, oh my God, no, no, this is actually amazing. fuck that city. And then I'm like, when I really think about it, yeah, I'm dependent on all these worker bees going to work every day and making sure that my sewage is getting taken care need all of us. We can't all be like the stoner creative culture. Well, we could all be that. That's another conversation. We're gonna have that conversation. ⁓ yeah, we need all of us. And that is, I think, that's important. That's important for us. think that's what we're creating our own little corner of the world and we're finding all these other little corners of the world and then we're all kind of coming together. We're recognizing the whole, the potential of the collective. And I think that over time, that's how culture shifts. I love that said that. talked about, there's this city in the Netherlands called Utrecht, I think is how it's said. And if you go online and you Google Utrecht before and after, you will see all of these photos of five-lane highways that are now once again canals and bike paths. They used to be canals. At some point, the industrialists filled them in with cement and made them highways. And then the culture of the Netherlands shifted so much that more and more people were using bicycles, not using cars, and they actually needed more infrastructure for bicycles. And they tore down the highways and put the canals back in. And I feel like that is in a lot of ways what we're doing and what a lot of people are doing out there is just realizing that we went in a lot of ways too far into the industrial. And so the more that each of us connect with our values and connect with others who are wanting to stay connected to the city or do it a different way, then we shift culture. It happens. Look up Utrecht. It's very inspiring. it's collaborative, not divisive. Yeah, it's a movement. I love that about what we're finding as we walk deeper into these waters. We're not finding people who have two middle fingers up. We're finding people who are grateful, gracious. inclusive and they're just they're they're loving the foundation that we all get to stand in and they are grateful for it as I feel like you and I are you probably even more than me I mean I think there's a long time where I had two middle fingers up because I was overwhelmed and I was being reactive I was allowing myself to indulge too much in that feeling and I was getting off on that rather than really feeling into what felt good to me. And now we're really kind of playing in that space and really, really engaging in those embodiment practices and engaging with those tools that we've all picked up and shared along the way. And there's this really gorgeous gratitude and graciousness. holy cow, look at what humans can do. We're amazing. We created all of this. Now let's correct for some of this that's taking our creation into a dangerous place. overusing resources, creating way too much disparity. And let's bring it back a little bit, and let's readjust. And then all of sudden, you've got freaking flavor trip, man. You've got flavor Look at that shit. Oh, amazing. You've got, and I mean, have people out there doing amazing things. I see the culture shifting. It could be just the culture that I'm now in, you know, that braving the wilderness journey of like, ⁓ wow, look at all these artists. We found a village. We found a village and yeah, it's just, I told Chelsea when we were watching Listers and Flavor Trip is, you can be so in the news and the headlines and everything happening with global news and trade and the environment and global warming and it can feel so much like, wow, we are just headed for the disaster. And then you can watch, you know, Lister's or Flavor Trip or Be With A Friend. there is a lot of us that are pursuing a different path. And balancing. We're not going to be in the headlines. You know, flavor trip will never be on, maybe not. I don't never say never, but like, they're not going to be on the associate press headlines of like, maybe they should take a boat down the Strait of Hormuz and be like, Zans. I'm like, there's a lot of people who are just, you know, they're, cause those people are living in happening. Their village is on fire right now. And they didn't, a lot of those people didn't even choose that. Right. That's, and that's crazy to me. And I think something that our space helps me to, Integrate is the fact those things are true at once. Yeah, there's these listers boys that with their sweet like Accepting energy they're realistic their moments or they're like fuck. This is really hard And then there are moments really we just saw this bird and ⁓ my god Lifer and we're high as fuck and we're having fun and Then there are people whose homes are being bombed and destroyed for the sake of some awful greed somewhere and their culture is being erased and they're dying and their families are dying and they're true at once and that is wild. It's so hard to hold and there aren't a lot of us in the history of our species who have had to hold all of it at once. Not that long ago we would live here in the United States and we wouldn't know what was going on in those territories, in that region because it's far away. And we would know it maybe six months later. ⁓ I just was there. I took a boat over here. Guess what's happening? It would be very, very different. We wouldn't see images. So now we're holding all of this at once. And yeah, we need these days of us just being girlfriends and being in each other's spaces and smelling and hearing and like. The sound of each other's breathing, the sound of Luna, the sound of you talking to her sweet at night. It's just beautiful. it's a balance because all those energies are touching each other. And that's not woo, that's science. That's science. don't actually know what. Science. Science. Love it, support it, believe it. ⁓ But we're all connected. And we now even have the conscious awareness of what's happening. And it's a lot. So let's create something that is a balance. And in all the ways that it can feel so powerless when it comes to the global disasters and the wars and things. The economy. What I do have power over is just like. part of the garden that I can touch, right? Which is a quote I really love by Jack Someone. I love Jack Someone. I think he's a poet. Attend to the part of the garden that you can touch. Like that part of the garden over there is on fire. We can't get there. I can't touch that part. But this part right here is making sure my friends feel loved and checking in with my girlfriends. How are you doing? I haven't heard from you for a while. Thinking of you or calling someone, going on a girls trip. and volunteering, like just doing those different things have a collective change and before you know it, like they're ripping out highways and putting in canals. Absolutely. And I mean the first day I was here we sat on the couch and we talked about marriage. And I feel like that conversation helped both of us to take all the disparate pieces that come from experiencing life as a person and trying to experience your life in union with another human and that can be really hard and union with a male when you're a female that can be really hard. There's just some differences there and that conversation created space, it created safety and it allowed some pieces to fall into place. It allowed us to share with each other. think especially because we're not like, know what you should do people, right? It's like, well in my experience or one of the things that I practice and I love that energy because then I could hear you talking about ways that you engage with Zach. that inspired me. I want to bring that to Nam. I want to offer him that because what expands him expands me too. So let's get over the things where I look at him and I'm like, I want to punch you in the face. Right? I can come here and talk to you about that. And you're like, girl, I feel that too. And then I'm like, ⁓ great. OK. I've been validated. I feel more normal. 100%. And I can do better in my marriage. I can do better as a mother. I can do better in my relationships with my sisters, with my friends. There's something beautiful that happens there. And we've talked about shame. know, what shame exists when it's like secret, something you can't tell other people, something that you feel like it's so dark and dirty. And it could be something as, you know, what can look simple as... being attracted to other men that aren't your husband. And there can be so much shame around that. then you talk about to a girlfriend and they're every woman I've talked to about that, they're like, oh yeah. And I'm like, oh, it turns out I'm straight. huh. Turns out I like men. You're normal. And I like a lot of them. And you're like, girl. You know, the shoulders and all the things. And it's normal to see a man at the They're just a bunch of shoulders walking around. Yes, yes, yes. It's normal and all my married friends are like, of course, yes, it's normal. I'm like, ⁓ it's normal because my super Christian background is like, marry your husband and you have eyes for no one else. I'm like, well, so then there's shame. So then you can share it with other friends and it's like the more that it's out of the open, it breathes and it lets off the gas and the decay and it's like, ⁓ it turns into compost. ⁓ I'm a straight girl and I like the shoulders. It's all good. It's all good. Yeah, yeah. No, that's a beautiful thing. It's beautiful. Well, this is going to be a normal thing. We're going to make this happen more regularly because this is lovely. This is wonderful. Even just doing this together in the same space. It's lovely. Yeah, it's nice. I get to like look at you. I know. We have not been looking very much at this, but that's OK. I like, should I be looking at her there? And I was like, I don't know. But that's what we do when we're not together, is I look at Chelsea on a screen. And the whole point is that you're right here. Why would I be looking at you there? In this orientation too, if I look up, I'm just looking at myself. Like, hi. No, OK, so there's always that. There's the technical. Well, I love you. I'm grateful for our friendship. Me too. Thank you. It's been an incredible blessing. Incredible blessing. Manifestation of manifestations. Daily living of success. Yeah. Yeah, this is success. It is success. have a slow chat with a friend over some coffee. Yeah. And I think it's available to everyone. It's just a... Opening your arms up and letting it in. Yeah. All right, everybody. We're going to take Chelsea to the airport in just a little while. to fly home. Glad that we were able to take this space together and just capture this moment even for ourselves. as well. Me as well. So much love to everyone. We'll see you all soon. OK. Bye.