Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / Unmedicated hospital birth, grief during pregnancy, firing a doula, and the fetal ejection reflex

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Unmedicated hospital birth, grief during pregnancy, firing a doula, and the fetal ejection reflex · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. I know. Just me. I know. Hello and welcome to a very special episode of the Arrivals Podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson, and today, back by popular demand, I am so excited to welcome the man, the myth, the legend, Chris Wilson, the father of my two boys, my husband, and the executive producer unpaid of the Arrivals Podcast. Hi, Mere Hi, Chris. Happy to be here. It's kind of crazy. Last time we sat down and did this, it was about a year ago when we recorded. I didn't release Kit's Birth Story for a few months, but it was the very first recording I did. Yeah. No video? No. No mic stands. We did not have mic stands. Things have escalated quickly. Now we are in the official arrivals studio. Yeah. Quotation marks. Yeah, yes. well, thank you for doing this again with me. Of course. you have been such a wonderful supporter of the podcast. Probably the only guy who's listened to every single episode, I would guess, could be wrong. But I'm excited to to have you back in the hot seat with me and to talk about our second son's birth. It's easy to support. I think it's really cool what you're doing, so Happy to listen and be a big supporter. Before we jump in, are a couple of the things that have surprised you that you've learned through listening to the podcast? That's a great question. I think I kinda come out of all the the different stories with a really good understanding that every birth story is unique and that no birth story is boring or not fun to talk about. There's always something that makes it just a little bit more unique than the next one and I think that's really cool. on a nerdier level I feel like I know a lot of the different crazy terms that are hard to spell and pronounce. Like, you know, I can't really say it, but I I feel like I know what it is. so yeah. It's been a it's been a nice sort of learning curve for me at least. Yeah. It's also been really cool to watch you interview all these different people with all these great and amazing stories, but today I kind of want to flip the script and ask you the questions and have you do most of the storytelling of our second son's birth. I will certainly interject with some of the things that I might remember or just add some funny stuff since I was kind of just around for. the show. but yeah I'm excited to to kind of ask you some questions and let you tell everybody about Ford's birth. Okay. That sounds good. Okay, good. So I guess where we'll start is how was your pregnancy? this is funny to be in the guest seat. my pregnancy with Ford was different than it was with Kit's. Right from the beginning I remember that I was sick with him and I wasn't with Kit and that led us to believe that we were having a girl. Because yep. Because we didn't know what we were having again. We love a surprise. And so my pregnancy with him was just it wasn't hard in the grand scheme of things, but it was harder than it was with kits. I had different cravings. I'm trying I I can't remember all the things now, but I remember there were a lot of like opposites. But primarily just that I was sicker with him than I was with Kit. And similar that it was another summer due date. Yes. So when you were Uncomfortable. It was also six million degrees outside. Even hotter because he was born the end of August. That was brutal. Yeah. It was definitely bigger. Second baby. I'm gonna blame it on the water weight from it being the end of August. but yeah, I mean it wasn't too bad. I think the there were a couple big milestones in my pregnancy with Ford that weren't necessarily physical, but that were just kind of like I I think I think of as being very much part of that time period that I wanna talk about. And the first one was our arguably insane decision to get a puppy while I was pregnant with our second child. Mm-hmm. And everyone told us we were crazy and They're not wrong, but I do want to kind of explain where we were coming from. Sure, I think we had our own reasons. Yeah, yes. So we've we're both dog people and our beloved black lab, our first baby Stella, had died when Kit was around a year and a half. And we, you know, wanted to wait a little bit to get another dog. But we also really wanted our kids to grow up with dogs. And we had noticed that Kit was starting to get a little bit like, you know, unsure around dogs. And when he was little around Stella, who was huge, he was not scared at all. And so we were like, gosh, we gotta nip this in the bud. And I think we also knew that if we waited to get another dog till after I had this baby. that it would probably be years. 'Cause you you're not gonna get a puppy when you have a newborn. No, that's what I always tell people is I mean, so Ford turns to next week. Mhm. Who's to say we would if we had waited if we would even have a dog right now? Exactly. I don't know. Because you know, I d I don't think any time is a great time to get a puppy. Yes. I think most would say they agree in that we picked the worst possible time. What? So we we got her May yes. She was born in March. We got her in May and then three months later we had a newborn. So we had a fairly newborn puppy and a newborn human. Mm-hmm. And yeah, it was a lot. And but you know, that's what we decided. And I mean, look at I mean it's Luna's an incredible dog and she's the best. I can't imagine not having her when we got her, and then Ford basically from the moment he came home, he's had a little Yeah, it's funny. I think I was thinking a lot about how our boys would like interact with the dog and feel about dogs, but Something I didn't consider was how sweet of a dog she would be like being raised with babies. Yeah. Like she's so gentle. I mean, she's a little wild because she is a lab puppy, but it's just she's just so full of love she can't control herself. But she's such a sweet family dog and she's so sweet and gentle with them. And I always tell people that it was crazy. Like there were times when she was keeping us up more at night than Ford was. Potty training, I much prefer diapers over potty training a puppy. and I always tell people like I don't regret it at all. I wouldn't necessarily recommend our approach, but I'm glad we did it. It was, you know, worked for us. It was our decision. Yeah. and then also selfishly, you and I just wanted a a dog in the house again too. So you know We did it, everyone thought we were crazy. Yeah. Don't care. It was great for us and but yeah, so I was wondering where you were going with some of the, you know, weird things during the pregnancy and yeah, that was that was definitely one of them. That was a milestone, yeah. Milestone is what you called it. What what other milestones? The other one was that on a a less fun milestone. My dad passed away when I was pregnant with Ford. And that was really, really hard. I, as you know, was very close to my dad. He'd been sick for a while with Parkinson's and then with some heart issues. But I really didn't think that he was going to pass away bef before I was done having kids, looking back like a couple years prior. and I will say that I think you know, I I talk about this a lot when I talk about my dad. He was fifty when I was born. So I think in the back of my head, I always did have this sense that I was gonna like lose him sooner than I should. sooner than at a younger age than most people lose their parents. But I didn't think it was gonna happen when it did. And that was really hard. he was such a like loving and wonderful grandfather to Kit and so it was hard to process not knowing that I wouldn't see him with Ford like that. Yeah it's such a fun bond with Kit and it's sad to think about that he didn't get to develop that with Ford. But there's your dad is in Ford in a lot of different ways. For sure. and I I just really believe, call it woo woo, call it whatever. I think that they were hanging out on the other side after my dad had passed and before Ford had come into this world. I just I don't know, I just have a feeling that they knew each other in some capacity. Yeah. So I like to tell I like to think that Ford got to meet Sure. We just didn't get to see it. Yeah. Exactly. but so it was it was a hard pregnancy from the standpoint of having a puppy and dealing with grief. And I mean I remember you know, I was already tired just from being pregnant and just being who I am, being the sleepiest person in the world. But grief on top of that was it was really tough. And and also chasing a toddler around. You know, I talk a lot on the podcast with guests about how the second pregnancy and third and etc is hard because now you're also chasing multiple kids. Yeah. And having to deal with that. So I just remember being really, really exhausted. Yeah. and carrying a lot. And I think in some ways being a preg being pregnant when my dad passed was a bit of a blessing because it like forced me to focus on something else. I think. Does that make sense? Like Yeah, I think so. What I was gonna ask is With how heavy some of those mental struggles were, you know, talking about passing your dad, being pregnant in general, still going through postpartum, I'm sure with Kit, do you think a lot of that stuff impacted how your postpartum was with Ford? Definitely. that's a good question. Yeah, I I think so. I remember one moment in particular when my brother came over to meet Ford for the first time. And we had gotten home from the hospital the night before, I think. And I hadn't cried a lot, but when I saw my brother, it's like bringing tears to my eyes. When I saw him, I just I remember I hugged him. And I was like, I wish he was here talking about our dad. But I I also think like it was interesting because I think my my grief was a little delayed, honestly, because my dad passed away when I was about halfway through my pregnancy with Ford. And so I was pregnant and then I had a newborn and you know, it had this toddler and That's really kind of where all my attention or a lot of my attention and focus went. And so I honestly feel like I was just so in the weeds with all of that for a while that it really didn't even feel real for a while that my dad distracted. Yeah. Yeah. so in some ways it was a it was a gift. Yeah. And I I believe quick me correct me if I'm wrong, in terms of two of those milestones. So getting the puppy and your dad passing, didn't you get the phone call from the breeder, I think the day your dad passed that Luna had been born? Yeah, that's right. I've forgotten that. There were all these little just God winks or signs, whatever you want to call them. She was born three days before my dad passed, but the breeder called me on the day that my dad had died, and I remember we were we It happened in the morning and I you know we were home later that night and I almost didn't answer the phone when I saw because I was like, my dad just died. I'm not gonna answer the phone and talk to, you know. And then something in me was like, just answer the phone. And so I answered the phone and he was like, I just wanted to tell you that the puppies were born a few days ago and they look great. And again, it felt like one of those little gifts, maybe from my dad, maybe from someone else, of just this bright spot of you know, I don't know, looking ahead. Yeah. There are things to smile about. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that was cool. Yeah. Okay, so milestones during the pregnancy. in terms of your birth plan or birth preferences. Well done. As you guys talk a lot about in the podcast. Did was your birth preference or birth plan different than what you had for Kit's? I don't really recall if you were changing anything at the time. I'm sure when you talk through it I'll remember it, but was it roughly the same or or were your thoughts different going into this second pregnancy? It was roughly the same. I think the biggest difference was that I knew I wanted to have a doula. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And as wonderful as you were, you were the best. Male doula, husband, coach, support person I could have asked for. I would just held my breath for six hours. I I I wanted you to be able to, I don't know if enjoy is the right word, but like I didn't want there to be so much pressure on you in this birth. And I also, having immersed myself more in the birth world between the pregnancies, I knew the value of a doula and everything that they could bring to the table. From so many different aspects of a hospital birth or any birth. And I found that out first hand. Yes. When we get to that. Yeah. Yeah. And so I knew I wanted to hire a dual. I still wanted to have a low intervention hospital birth and, you know, no epidural, as natural as possible. But I wanted to find a doula. So I I went about kind of just Googling because I didn't have a lot of connections really yet, like I do now. But I went about and I just I Googled like Atlanta doulas and I found someone and reached out to her and we talked on the phone and she was like, Yep, I have availability for your due date and I was like, Okay. And I remember I called you and I was like, I just hired a doula and you were like, Okay, d like, did you what questions did you ask her? And I was like, I don't know, I just I I said yes, like it it felt right and I just went with it. well then I think you were like, we're gonna have plenty of questions to ask her when we go visit her at her house. Yes. And I was like, Yes. I'm more of a shoot from the hip person too. You are the researcher in the family. But yeah, so we hired the Sula and a couple weeks later we went to a I think she called it like a a prep course or something at her house. Where we went together, God babysitter for kit, and she walked us through we talked about like my birth plan, she walked us through a couple like coping tools, positions, mechanisms. I'm trying to think if there's anything else really. That's what I remember. Yeah. But I remember we we walked out of her house, got in the car, and I can't remember, did you say something first or did I 'cause I could feel Like your body holding tension. Mm-hmm. I don't remember what I said, but if I had to guess, there's something along the lines of Well, how do you think that went? That sounds right. Knowing what you're I thought you were gonna say. Yeah. And I am an eternally optimistic person, and it's really hard for me to be negative and or admit like defeat on something. But I think I said to you, I don't know if she's the one. I don't know if I if sh if she's my doula. Like I don't know if I felt comfortable with her. Something just felt off. And it wasn't that she was there wasn't anything I could pinpoint, but it just didn't feel like we vibed with her, for lack of a better word. Yeah, and and that's fine. Yeah. And You know, in that moment I think I brought this up maybe. That's that's not the type of decision to make w where you say, I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah. No, I mean 'cause that's where I was going. I I know. I know. Just because, you know, I I'm sure you've been going through a lot. It was gonna be more to to, you know, start over, start from scratch, to find somebody else, start the interview process again. But you know, it's really important that you mesh and gel on almost all fronts, right? You're not maybe not with everything, but at least feel comfortable and excited about it, because this person is gonna be there with us. in one of the most important and life-changing moments of our lives. I think that's that calls for being a little bit picky. Picky. I remember you said that to me. You said I was going down the road of it'll be fine. I'm sure it'll be fine. I didn't hate her, you know, I was like I didn't like and you were like, Mary Lise, do you really want someone that is just fine in the birthroom with us as our second child is born? Like for this monumental occasion, and I was like, well when you put it like that and that was that. Yeah. And and I appreciate it because I mean all these things were going through my head. Like first and foremost, my people pleasing personality, I was like, I don't wanna fire someone, that sucks. And then secondly, we had put a deposit down, so I you know, I didn't want to waste the money. but you know, we ultimately decided that it was just It was an expense we were willing to just take on. right off, right. and so she and she had so eventually when I reached out and just told her I didn't think it was a good fit, she did give us I think half the money back, which was really nice. but then we went about trying to find a new doula because I knew I still wanted one. And this was in July and I and he was born in August. So I was really nervous that I wasn't gonna be able to find someone with availability that close to his due date. But I ended up finding another woman and I remember we had a video interview with her when we were at the beach for the Fourth of July. And and she got on the phone. Charmaine, and she had this amazing English accent. And she asked us all these questions. She listened to Kit's birth story. I think we talked to her for like an hour. Yeah. And she, you know, had great ideas and feedback and thoughts about his birth and like what she would have done differently or what we could to do differently next time. I also loved that she had been an OB in England. And so, or excuse me, not an O B, she'd been a midwife in England. So she'd been a midwife. In England, and then when she came to the US, didn't want to jump through all the hoops and decided to become a doula. But so I felt like I was getting a midwife for the price of a doula. And I just loved her. She was kind of like a little sassy with you with you, which I loved. Playful. Sassy is the wrong word. She was playful. Yeah, for sure. And I loved that. And she just felt really comfortable. And then a couple weeks after that, before Ford was born, she came over to our house and we like met in person, and she loved Luna, which Which made me happy. Yeah, it felt if you're gonna compare the two, it was very different. Night and day. Yeah, night and day. Yeah. And that was great. Because it also felt like it was not just checking that one, you know, checking the box for it. It was you know a it was an e an enthusiastic check of that box. Mm-hmm. Which I think was great. You know, it was something that we really wanted, especially you really wanted So it was great to feel so confident finding that person and the fact that we had about probably at that point, less less than a month ago. So so that was that was a big a big decision there. Yeah. So we we have our doula and we're getting into summer and he was due August twentieth was his due date. And as I'm getting closer to the due date, getting hotter and more swollen. The practice I was at, which was the same practice I went to with Kit, started talking about induction. And I said, I don't want to be induced at 40 weeks. I, you know, my my first baby was eight days late, and I really, really want to go into labor naturally. And the midwives I was seeing were like, okay, you know, we'll let you go till forty-one weeks, but at forty-one weeks we want you to come into the office and we'll check you that day and probably send you to the hospital to be induced. Yeah. And so similar similarly to Kit's birth, I Felt like I was up against this shot clock of like you have to go into labor. And I remember having the same anxiety and stress and fear of like, this has to happen like this. Like, I don't want to be induced. It changes the whole plan. And I remember preference. Preference, yes. And I remember Charmaine was really wonderful in that whole week I was overdue, like from 40 weeks to 41. She was so wonderful. I remember texting her and you know, saying, like, should I do this? I have good. This, like da-da-da, and she just had so much advice and wisdom to offer, so much better than going to Dr. Google. She was like a super Google. Yes, exactly. And you know, and and she was like, Don't waste your time on this, like, and which just helped me talk through that. And think I remember she's told me. I should have looked this up before we started talking, but there was a statistic she gave me that was like the vast majority of people are no longer pregnant at 41 weeks. You know, she was like, you will go into labor. She was confident. And so that was really helpful. So she was amazing even before the birth even happened. and then on August 20th, no, he was due August 19th. August 19th was the due date. So on August 26th. That morning I had an appointment at my midwife OB office first thing. Yeah, it was pretty early. It was early, it was like eight o'clock or something. So our plan had been like, we'll get up, take a kit to daycare, and then go to the office. You were in the shower, getting ready for the day, and you got out, and I was still like laying in bed. And I was like, I remember I was like, ugh, I guess I need to roll myself out of bed. Like I've been laying here long enough. late per usual, and I made to move like I was gonna roll and I felt this like gush of liquid. And I was like, babe, I think my water just broke. I remember that. And being I was either just out of the shower or in it, so I heard, you know, water or something, and I said, What'd you say? And you responded with You heard me. Yeah. shit. I know. And so I remember you like went into panic mode. It was cute. You were like like throwing on your clothes. You're like, okay, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? And I was like, it's okay. My I don't have any contractions, just take Kit's daycare and come back and get me and we'll figure it out. You know, we'll go from there. I'll let Charmaine know. I think I was just worried because you were strep B positive right? Yeah, or yeah, group B strep. Group B strep positive and I just remember that that doesn't really allow you the the leisure of, you know, laboring at home for a while. So I just remember that we didn't have a lot of time to just Daily dolly. Well, we normally would have. You so I mean with Group B strap, you just have to make sure you get there an hour before the baby is born. Well But I've heard enough stories on your podcast where True that's a shot in the door. True, true. To get antibiotics. But I think the bigger thing that was different about this water breaking is that my water broke, I got up, it was a lot bigger than with Kit that was one thing. But when I went to the bathroom to Like examine the situation, there there was like some brownish, greenish stuff in my waters. And I texted a picture of it to Charmaine. Bless her. I'm sure she gets the weirdest stuff. I texted a picture of the stuff to her and she was like, I'm pretty sure that's meconium in your water. And she was like, you know, it's not an emergency. You don't need to r run out the door right now. But she was like, you need to make your way to the hospital sooner rather than later. You're not gonna be able to labor at home. Yeah. And so I was like, that's a bummer. But and I remember something that was so nice about Charmaine is like, she was very reassuring. She was like, it it can mean meconium in the fluid can mean that a baby's in distress, or it might not. She was like, you know, the it doesn't inherently mean that there's a problem. So she was like, stay calm. We will figure it out when you get to the hospital. They will determine what's going on. So you took Kit to daycare and it w I remember it was wild because I was like, Alright buddy, I love you. I'll see you later. Like you're gonna have a brother and a or a baby. We didn't know if it's a girl or boy, but I was like, you know Like, I'm gonna have a baby, and he was like, deuces. Like he did not he did not get it. Yeah, where he said, see you soon, baby. But he was and he was like a little over three at that point. But so I took kit and I think I dropped lid off at doggy take. Somewhere, yeah. Yeah. And then came back and did we no we did not go straight there. Pretty soon. So I remember while you were gone, I was kind of like rocking on the birth ball and my water was like really just starting to gush. It was getting really messy. I think we maybe stayed an hour. Yeah. Because we got to we were in our room a little after ten. Yeah. Yeah. Ten A. So Yeah, so I remember I had to change clothes like multiple times before we even left 'cause I was just soaking through everything. But we went to the hospital, checked in, I still wasn't having any contractions. They did triage and the baby's heart rate was great, which was the thing I was most worried about because of the meconium. Sometimes it can signal that the baby's in distress, but they got the heart rate and it was perfect. And so they just admitted us and settled us into a room and then it kind of just was a waiting game. Yeah, that's kind of what remember. Mm-hmm. It was the calm before the s before the storm. Yeah. Which for me I I try not to show it on my face, but like my heart was going a thousand miles an hour. Yeah. The baby's heart rate was fine, mine was not well, and it's funny 'cause it was similar with kit. Like my water broke and then I didn't have contractions for eight or nine hours. But for most of that we were asleep or not at the hospital with Kit's 'Cause it happened at like four in the morning. Right. But with Ford, like we were just hanging out in the hospital room and we were I remember debating like when should we call Charmaine to come. And we decided like we wanted it to just be us for a little bit longer. We were listening to music, like playing Wordle, just doing random stuff. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. Until you know the show started. Yeah. Well, and the other weird thing that happened that was unique during that was that you mentioned the group B strep And so my contractions hadn't kicked in. When I got there, my water had broken. I was like two or three centimeters dilated, but no contractions. And they were like, well, why don't we go ahead and give you the penicillin now, get that out of the way. And I was like, yeah, you know, it sounds great. I remember it made me sick with kit. Like it I threw up because of the penicillin with kit. So I was like, let's do that before I'm already in pain from the contractions. And we decided to go instead of into the what do you even call it? The elbow. Almost called the elbow. Instead of the armpit. Not the armpit. Instead of going the elbow 'cause you felt like you couldn't really move your arm much and it was painful with kits. Yeah. And so we went for the one, you know, sort of in the forearm. Yes. Which gives you a lot more mobility. However, yeah. I know where you're going with this. Yeah. But I I'm glad you said that though, 'cause that was such a game changer for me. And again, one of those things that you just you don't know what you don't know. And I didn't think twice about it when for Kit's birth they put the I V in the crook of my arm because that's where, you know, you get blood drawn, etcetera. But it was so uncomfortable, it really restricted my movement. And so with Ford, I specifically asked if they could put the IV in my forearm. And it was so much better. It was just, I was barely aware of it. It was so just any for anyone out there, remember, you can ask for a different placement of the IV, and forearm is probably the most comfortable. However. However, there was a lovely, we had two nurses. They were both lovely. One of them was very new, and she was in training. And she did my IV line, she inserted it, and then she started the penicillin drip and left. And a few minutes later, it didn't take long. And and they warn you with penicillin. They say it might burn. And I remembered it burned with kit. And so, you know, they don't want you to panic. A few minutes later it started burning. And I was like, okay, this is just this is the penicillin burning, like it's doing what it does. And then it started hurting more. And more. And I started sweating. And I it was like turning white. And your forearm was swelling. And my and I looked down and my forearm was swelling. Yeah. And I remember I looked at you and I was like, I I I you know, I was thinking all those silly things that like I don't want to be a wimp about this. Like is this just what it feels like, you know? And the but then when I looked down and saw the forearm swelling, I was like, I think something's wrong and you were like, nurse. Yeah. And so they came in and the penicillin was going into my bloodstream. It had missed my vein. So the IV was not placed in my vein. It's just in my arm. Filling up. Yeah. and so that was pretty terrible. I don't know w what you would call that if it was like a vasovagal reaction, but I mean I was it was awful. Like the the pain and like how nauseous I felt and stuff was like pretty much as bad as a contraction. Like a pressure valve. Immediate, yes. I immediately felt better. And they redid the They I think they had to do it in my other arm because that this one was still pretty like puffy. I think they switched arms and switched. They didn't do penicillin, they did whatever. This was dissimilar. This was another way that Charmaine was helpful. I called her to tell her what happened, and she was like, That's a really bad reaction. Is there any chance you're allergic to penicillin? And I said, I don't think so, but my mom is. And she was like, Well, you know, like allergies change as you age, and she was like, if I were you, I would just to be safe, I would ask for a different antibiotics. Antibiotic. I never would have thought of that, wouldn't have known that was an option. But I asked and they were like, absolutely, we can try something else. And so who's to say if I would have had a reaction again with the penicillin, even if it was properly placed? But it was just nice to know I didn't have to risk it. So they gave me a different antibiotic. I can't even remember what it was. Yeah. It went in, no problem. Yeah, either way, they switched arms, switched the medication, and it was became a non-issue. Yeah. After it Oddly was a very big issue for a minute. That was brutal. Yeah, that was weird. It was very strange. So after that, I believe that was the last event, I guess, before we started you started to have Real contractions. Yeah. I think, right? That's that's next. I think so. It's so funny. We were talking about this in preparation for a recording and looking back at our like messages with friends and with Charmaine and stuff because it's so much of a blur. I feel like everything with the first labor, with kids labor was like so I don't know, I remember it so clearly, but same. Yeah, there wasn't it it's much more of a blur with Ford's and so Yeah, I think that was kind of the last big thing. And then after they finished that bag of antibiotic, I got up and walked around. I remember the midwife, and I was so happy because it was my favorite midwife who was on call. It was the one that I'd wanted to deliver kit and she wasn't there. And it was really cool. Again, it felt like another serendipitous thing. She actually had planned to retire that year that Ford was born. man, I didn't Yeah, she planned to retire and didn't. And then she got to deliver for it, which was really cool. Thank goodness. I know. I love her. Shout out, Laurie but so so yeah, so then she was like, get up, walk around, like I need these contractions to pick up. And I was like, totally. And so we were just walking around, I was like bouncing on the ball, and the contractions were sort of starting to like kick in. And then I I feel like it just ramped up really fast. It did. Ramped up really fast. And remember I was I was kind of at the end of the bed. I was sitting on the ball, rolling my hips, doing figure eights, and holding on to the end of the bed. And you were having to apply like counter pressure. on your hips, yeah. Mm-hmm. And it was You did that for a while. Yeah. You did that for a while. It was helping. It was getting it was helping. I was working. I would say like I think we had a countdown. I'd be like You'd be like, tell me when it's coming and I would say three, two, one. And we'd breathe into it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I remember too, I had one of those contraction timer apps on my phone. Yeah. I was meticulous enough. I know. And you love I know. We're gonna say I love a I love a chart. Yeah. Yes. An Excel spreadsheet. Well yeah, and it it would just it helped to show where we were going 'cause I vividly remembered how all this stuff went with Kit. Yeah. but yeah, I wish I still had it saved because I know we'll get there, but boy, you were going I was, but it wasn't I I remember it wasn't as bad as it was with Kit. And I bad in the sense of that The contractions weren't going off the chart and I was getting more of a break between them, and they weren't. I remember my contractions with kits, some of them were like two minutes long. Yeah. And I think now I recognize that as those were Pitocin and contractions. Okay. And I didn't have to have Pitocin with Ford. Yeah. so while they sucked, I mean they were they were they were brutal. And I can't remember, I'm not gonna go into too many of the details because it's memory at this point, but I remember for a long stretch of time. time maybe hour and a half two hours you are averaging over a minute long. so I I think at one point I remember the contractions were getting tough. We decided to call Charmaine and tell her to go ahead and come. that was something that was kind of like unexpectedly hard was deciding when to call the doula. Because I was like, we wanted it to, we wanted to be in our like bubble. We didn't want to inconvenience her, which is so silly, but we decided finally to make the call that she should come. And so she was on her way, and I remember I was I was not coping, and I think I was I'd just gone to like a negative place and I kept thinking, like this year has already been so hard. This you know, having my losing my dad was so hard. Like, do I really wanna do this like this? I've been so strong, I don't wanna keep being strong. I was just having a little bit of a pity party. Sure mentally in my head. Yeah. I you know, I was aware of what was going on and it's probably in your in your head too, you know, hey, I already already showed that I could do this before with kit. Do I really need to, you know, go through all this pain to to prove it to myself again. And I remember that moment. But then you kind of shook it off and Yeah. It was good. I think right when I was really starting to melt down, Charmaine got there. Yeah. I remember that. So I remember kinda getting it getting you over the first hump. Yeah. Kind of pumping you up and reminding you stuff. And I feel like that gave you some adrenaline 'cause I remember you being like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, like you're right, like I'm fine, I'm fine. Yeah. And then she might have showed up like forty five minutes after after that. Mm-hmm. And and I think you were you were kind of spiraling again. Yeah. And she came in with some You know what, I don't really remember like not necessarily different motivation or stuff. She was giving you a lot of almost options like, hey, let's try this, let's try that. Like kind of took your mind off of it. Like, hey, we don't have to go the route right now of deciding if you did you want an epidural. We can go to the right to the shower. Right. Right. See if that helps. And she just brought like new energy in. It was it was something about it was just it was a good distraction. It you know, it changed the the energy. In the room, and I remember I told her I was like, I'm not coping well, and she was like, Yes, you are. She was like, You're doing it, in her amazing accent, which I'm not even going to attempt to do. And so I had, I remember on the birthing ball, I had this huge contraction. And I felt something that I did not feel with Kit. I felt the baby move. through my pelvis, like down into my pelvis. Like I I it was crazy. It was like I could feel the head. Can you describe like probably something you've never felt before, but if you had to liken it to something, could you? I mean, I picture it. I I don't know what this feels like, but I pictured you know, a a boulder like pushing through a tunnel of dirt or something. I don't know. I felt like I felt this head move down into and engage into my pelvis. It was crazy. It was crazy. And I like it was really painful. And then after that I couldn't sit on the ball anymore. I was like, this is no longer working. This is not comfortable. I was really like fighting every contraction, like holding my breath or like breathing really hard. I remember I was doing my breaths, but Charmaine was like, you gotta slow it down. You're not really doing your breaths. She was like, slow down. I don't think you're actually breathing. I was like, like something I don't know. so I had that huge contraction and sitting on the birth ball was no longer comfortable. I guess because I was like sitting on his head basically. It was right there. And Charmaine said, why don't we try a shower? And I said, sure. I'd always wanted to try like laboring in water. Everyone talks about how wonderful it is. And I really just wanted to try anything at that point. And so they were getting the shower ready, and you were helping me walk to the bathroom. And I sat down on the toilet to pee, and I had two really big contractions on the toilet. And As I've learned more, I've learned that this happens a lot on the toilet. And there's a reason that women are naturally drawn to the toilet in labor. It's if you think about the shape of a toilet and you look at pictures of birthing stools, traditional birthing stools, it's the same thing. It's the same thing. And it's like an optimal position because it op your legs are open, but your cervix, you know, and and everything are able to kind of like be below, you know, your knees without the pressure of a ball or a surface. And so I had two huge contractions on the toilet. And I remember Charmaine being like, hmm, hmm. And I stood up and my legs were jello. I remember leaning over the sink to wash my hands, and I like had to hold on to the sink. I like couldn't. And I think we were thinking the same thing, which was No more shower. How am I gonna she's gonna slip? She's gonna shower's not an option. No. And I think Charmaine In all her infinite wisdom, she knew that I was getting close at that point based on the signals, the noises, et cetera. And so she said to me, How would you feel about scrapping the shower and maybe trying a little fentanyl? Just to give you a little break. 'Cause I think she could see also I was so tense and I was fighting the contractions and I was just I was going through it. It's battle. Yeah. So I was like, okay, yeah, sure, shoot me up with heroin. Why not? Why not? When in Rome. And so. Do you remember if the fentanyl helped? I remember it helped for it it felt like one contraction. But it might have been two, but it did take the edge off just long enough for me to catch my breath. Yeah. And Just remember that I could do it. And that's the second time you brought that up. And I remember that from kits where it was, you know, contraction going into contraction, going to contraction. And and you talking about that you felt like you couldn't catch your breath. And when you could catch your breath, you felt like it made the contractions more manageable. Yeah. And that's not something that I feel like I've heard a lot on your podcast is women talking about the catching of their breath in between. between the contractions and it's just something I kind of picked up if you've been as you've been talking, like that that's at least for you, s a very important, you know, part of the process. Like maybe it's almost like a reset where you can actually do the right breathing techniques. Is that something that that you've heard other women talk about or am I just crazy? It's a good question. I mean, in birth prep, I f I think that you hear a lot about breath work and the importance of it. Right. I n it's interesting you ask, because you're right, I don't hear people talk a lot about feeling breathless. I hear people talk about like Teresa talks about breathing her babies slowly into the world. But in the sense that I think you're you're noticing with my stories, now that you mention it, I do have a habit I've had my whole life of holding my breath when I'm focused. Or or doing something hard. I as you know, I was a dancer growing up and I really had to work to remember to breathe while I danced. So I wonder if I just wasn't doing a good job. Yeah. Breathing. But when you talk about those, you know, breaks, I imagine that all the breathing techniques and everything are very tough to continue to do if you're not getting a break to like right. To think about breathing. Yeah. And that's why I think a lot of you hear a lot of places in the UK and Australia and anywhere but the US and a lot of home births have this. they have gas and air and so, you know, gas to help yeah distract you, but then you they have air to help you get more air to your bloodstream and everything. So why isn't that a thing here? I don't know. If anyone knows. So yeah, so the fentanyl let me catch my breath for a minute. And at that point she had me get into this position that I wish I had. Again, just she was amazing to have. I never would have thought of this, but she had me get into this position because I couldn't sit on the ball because it was painful, but my legs were too weak to stand, which in hindsight I should have been doing some squats. It should have been healthier during my pregnancy. But she had me get on the bed on my knees and then hug like the head of the bed. They tilted the hospital bed up so that it was almost perpendicular like a chair. I remember that. And I hugged the top of the bed and just kind of rested my chest on it and was sitting on my knees. Yeah. And I did that for a couple of contractions. Did that feel like it relieved any pressure or what was the fe what made that position the right one for you at the time? I think my legs were just so jell-and I that sounds so weird. You don't think your leg muscles are going to Especially you know, 'cause we stood up the whole of Kit's labor. We danced. But I don't know, I don't know what it was. I don't know if I was dehydrated, I don't know if I was just not in as good of shape as I was with kit, but My legs were violently shaking. I could not stand. And so yeah, and I remember at that point in that position they checked me and they were like, you're seven or eight-ish centimeters. Seven. And so you asked if it helped. I don't think it really helped pain management wise, because I was going through transitions, so I was in like the most painful part. It helped take the, you know, the pressure off my legs, but nothing was comfortable at that point. And so they were like, you're at seven or eight centimeters. And I was like, okay, this is good. Like, this is progress. And then Charmaine said, Well, why don't we, why don't you slide down and lay on your side? I think maybe I said that the position wasn't working or helping anymore and the fentanyl had worn off really quickly. She said, Why don't you lay on your side and we'll put the peanut ball between your legs? And I said, sure. And they did it, and I remember it was excruciatingly painful. I was like, no, this is not. No peanut ball. No peanut ball. And I think they immediately took it away. And I had another contraction and I made like this noise. And I remember Charmaine looked at me and she said, Are you pushing? And I hadn't even thought about it, but I said, I'm trying not to. Yeah. I remember this vividly. Yeah. Y when you said I'm trying not to, it was not as calm as you just you just said it. What was I like I'm trying to No, it's just very in the moment of transition and baby coming and pain. And I just remember it was it was like everything you could muster to like say that. Yeah. In between like your breathing and contractions. Like and it was like okay. Yeah. Which means involuntary pushing, I think is what she thought. I remember she said, nurse, we have involuntary pushing, get the midwife. Yeah. And I remember thinking, I think the reason I said I'm trying not to push is because it had been five minutes since they checked me and said I was six or seven or eight centimeters. It had not been long. Yeah, it was. So I thought surely I am not ten centimeters, there's no way it's it's time to push. So any like feeling of needing to push must be too soon. Like I need to I need to hold back because if you push too soon that can be a problem if you're not fully dilated. I think that's why I said I'm trying not to. But she heard that noise I was making and knew what was up with all of her experience. Yeah. It it really it's like an animalistic. Yeah. I don't know, what is it what are the noises like from your perspective? I don't r remember what it sounded like. Scary. Yeah. Guttural and Guttural is a good one. that's why when I when I talked previously about, you know, when we were in there and nothing was going on and we were kind of just walking around and hanging out, waiting for contractions to come that like my heart was beating. Yeah. 'Cause I think about, you know, when the battle starts and you're going through it and I know how much pain you're going through and it it's scary. Yeah. for me. Selfishly. But no, it's yeah, I mean it's it's wild. Did I have my eyes closed for a lot of it? Mm-mm. No. No I remember looking at you. Yeah. Very focused. Mm-hmm. Did I cuss? I can't even remember. Yeah, definitely. I mean I'm I'm thinking like Yeah. Yeah. I mean some words are there's just no better word that's true at the moment. So true. but yeah, so you said she called the the midwife in because involuntary pushing. And they and I kind of like rolled over from my side onto my back and they like lifted the bed, the head of the bed up so I was sitting. Yeah. And I scooted down to the edge of the bed so that, you know, I was my bottom was like hanging off the bed. And the midwife got there. And I remember it was weird. It was like the adrenaline it was almost like everything paused and the contractions weren't bothering me. And I remember I said to her, should I push? And she said, Whenever you're ready, this is your show. And that was such a different experience from my first birth with Kit, where even though I didn't have an epidural, they were telling me when to push, they were telling me how to push, they were just being so directive. I remember that. Telling you to push when you had no urge. Yeah. Which has gotta feel so counterintuitive. It did. It really did. And so for her, I remember smiling to myself and being like, hell yeah, it's my show. And I had such a strong fetal ejection reflex with Ford. After she said that, I like locked back in. I had a one big contraction, I pushed, then The next big contraction, I pushed and his head came out. Yeah. And then I remember everyone said, Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, don't push, don't push. The cords wrapped around his neck. But I couldn't because I was I was having the reflex. And the best way to describe it is is like throwing up out of your vagina. Like you can't Sorry if that's graphic, but you could have just said throwing up. No but it was like throwing up. Like I could not control the reflex. Sorry everybody, she is unhinged at the moment. You know what? We're just we're all about honesty here. And so anyways, they were like, stop, don't push. But I was already mid next push. They thankfully were able to wrap the cord really quickly from around his neck. So I I pushed again, his body came out. Yeah. And they, you know, lifted him onto my chest and I was so happy. It was so fast. It felt so fast at that moment. It was. I think we when we were looking back at our messages. From you texting my friend saying seven or eight. I think it was twenty six minutes or twenty-eight minutes, is that what we said? I think it was less. Was it? Well that's fast. Yeah, it was really fast. I think it was like fifteen. That's yeah. It was really fast. It did It was six minutes of pushing. It escalated. Yeah. It escalated but then was The escalation wasn't for very long. No. I think that's what I've learned about my labors is in hindsight, like they were very similar. Water broke early, no contractions for hours and hours and hours. Then when can when the contractions started, they started pretty, they they escalated pretty quickly. Right. Then right when I think I can't do it, it means I'm in transition, and then soon after the baby is here. And with Kit though, I think you pushed for what, like an hour and 15 minutes? That's true. I that was the the key difference. I wasn't having that the urge. The urge to push. I remember and then I remember when you did 'cause it felt very natural and you started telling everybody 'cause they were like I right? Yeah. 'Cause I feel like she was like you know like, Okay, it it's coming. Yeah. And so then they kind of got in your rhythm of, Okay, again like your show. This one was much more it started off that way, which was nice. But then what's wild it was three, maybe four pushes. Yeah. And he was out I remember we didn't know if he was a boy or a girl. Yes, our plan was exactly like how Kit's was three years before where we didn't know and the plan was when the baby comes out that they would either show the baby to me or put the baby on Mary Lisa's chest facing me. Yeah. So that I could tell her what it was. And think just like with Kit I said it's Ford. I don't think I said it's a boy. I th I think I said Did you? It's Ford. I remember differently I remember video of it. We do. I remember looking at your face and being like, It's a boy. Was that 'cause I was a little surprised? I think so. I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was surprised or what, but we we haven't talked much about it, but we really thought it was a girl. Really did. Yeah, and when and when you when you think about it you can give all the reasons of your pregnancy was different, you were carrying different, all of that. We had no idea. It was a girl. And yeah, so something about your face, I was like, it's another boy, isn't it? You were yep, yep. Well, and it was interesting too, because just like with Kit, we had we hadn't really decided on a girl name. We kind of had decided on a girl name, but like we for sure knew the boy name. Yeah. And I it was really special because our boy name was our dad's names. Yeah. So Stanford named after my dad, David after yours. Yeah. And so I remember being happy that we got to use my dad's name, and of course your dad's, but happy that I haven't thought about it that way until right now. Yeah. That that's really cool. Yeah. And so yeah, they put him on my chest and he was perfect and I had like a teeny tiny little tear, didn't bother me. Which is impressive because we found out later on he has a ninety-fifth percentile head. Yeah, he has a friggin' pumpkin. He's got a pumpkin head. He wasn't big, he was six fourteen, I think twenty two inches. All very similar to Kit's measurements, right? Kit was six ten or six eleven, now I can't remember. I think he was six eleven. He was six eleven. Ford was six fourteen, a little bit bigger, a little bit longer, but not a huge baby. Long and skinny, kinda like Kit. And just with a big old knocking. I just melon head. And I got to have my golden hour that I didn't get to have with Kit. Yep. Everything was so much more enjoyable that second one and For those of you that haven't heard, you can go back and to the very first episode of Arrivals and listen to Kit's, but it was basically chaos from the moment that we that we got to the the hospital and and this one was, you know, Ford stayed in the room, didn't have to go to the NICU or anything like that. So you had your golden hour, you know, we got to stay together because I didn't chase Kit when he left and you were by yourself. It was it felt more Or like how you thought it was supposed to be. And we hadn't really gotten that before. But yeah, it was it just felt like calm once he came. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas the last one remained chaotic after Kit came. So I don't think. I don't think I realized how sad Kit's was until we had the experience with Ford. And it was so so beautiful and so wonderful and just felt so right. You know, it's how it should be. Like you shouldn't be separated right after. And I held him the whole time the midwife cleaned me up. He nursed right there in the delivery room. and you latched? Yeah, he latched right there. And I just remember I was just in heaven. I couldn't stop smiling. All the pictures of me, I'm just I mean I look a hot mess but I'm happy. And then I finally let you h hold him. I like I held on to him for a while. I didn't wanna finally let you hold him. I'm not gonna get in between that. and you got to cut the cord with him. You didn't cut the cord with Kit because it was like an emergency situation. But you cut Ford's cord. Yeah, I forgot about that. And I remember I was like, has it stopped pulsing? And they were like, Honey, you've been holding him for a while. Like it has very much has stopped pulsing. And I was like, Okay. that's part of my birth plan. Yes. And it was just beautiful. You held him and Charmaine held him. And she stayed with us until we transferred to our recovery room. And she was so sweet and wonderful and made sure we were all settled in. And then Everything was nice. He was born at six thirty two. Six thirty-two. So my water broke at like seven thirty. Probably. And he was born at six thirty-two. Eleven hours. So water broke at seven thirty. Contractions started around three thirty. Something like that. Yeah. So really I was only contracted for three hours. That's kind of crazy. Yeah. Or they they really started ramping up. I was in active labor at three thirty. He was born at six thirty, too. And then We ordered Jimmy Johns. Ordered Jimmy Johns, stayed the night. Yeah. Left the next day. Yeah, we only stayed one night, which was nice. Like, are you sure you don't want to stay? We were like, Yeah. We wanna play. But is everybody good? They're like, everyone's great. And it's like, Yeah. See ya. Yeah. Think one my favorite things about Ford's birth though was Kit coming to meet him in the hospital. That was awesome. That was so Yeah, my parents brought him. We have that I filmed him coming in. It was so cute. It's it's the best. And I remember I really missed him. You know, it was We talked about that a lot. Yeah, I was like, I miss him. I wanna see him. That was Not the day he no, wouldn't it be one? It was the next day, so 'cause they kinda came in in the afternoon, so we must not have we must have left not long after they left with Kit. I think it was something that we checked out around dinner time or something. But yeah, he came in and met his little brother and he was so sweet and I'll n I'll never forget. The nurse came in to change his bandages on his his circumcision. And Kit was watching or like a hawk yeah. And he was so concerned. He for a three year old he he had the face of I have a lot of questions, but he didn't ask any questions, but he was inquisitive with his face. Poor buddy, he was very worried. I know. and it was also cool, you know, telling Your mom his name. yeah. And telling my dad his name. Yeah. That was very emotional. I remember I called my brother and sister in law and my mom and told him that his name was Stanford David and that was the first time I cried that day, I think. it was really special. It was a good day. It was a really good day. August twenty sixth, twenty twenty four. He's gonna be two, which is insane because that feels like this was yesterday. And You know, he kind of came into the w I say this all the time. I swear babies are born with their personality 'cause he came into the world like a wrecking ball and he has maintained that same persona. He's crazy. He's crazy. He's a Looney Tune. And we love him and it's so fun seeing the differences between him and Kit and and thinking about Kit's birth, like he didn't want to come out and he's like, you know, he's very he's a very cautious little dude, very attached to his mom. And Ford's just like here I am, world. like the the Kool-Aid man busting through the wall. yeah. It kind of shapes like him too. Yeah, kinda. Dad calls him bruiser. Bruiser, yes. He's got a lot of bruises and constantly. He's awesome. We've got our two little boys. He's a blast. Got our two little boys and Luna. And then I have to also say that when we got home from the hospital, shout out to Penny, my wonderful postpartum Zula, who came over. It was funny when we were going through my the plan or preferences for birth and postpartum. I remember we said To each other, do we do we need to have penny again? You know, and like we we probably remember. I think, didn't I say absolutely? You were like, No, I want Penny. I was like, Do we need penny? Like, but do you need air to breathe? Right, exactly. And sure enough, she came and she stayed for longer than she did with Kit, and she was wonderful, and she did all the wonderful things she reminded us. It's so funny everything you forget between kids. She showed us how. How to wash, how to bathe them. I'm trying to She comes back really quickly. But if you had just given me like a swaddle, yeah, and I hadn't done it, I w I mean I would have like had YouTube and how did I do this thing? Yeah. But she reminds you and of everything and teaches you some new stuff. Yeah, she was She was a big savior for us after Kit's birth, right? Our first She saved our lives. We knew nothing. Mhm. yeah, it's just such a a comfort having her. In the house, as much as you know, reminding you things to do. It was just like pennies here, we're good. Yes, I know. It's like a comforting presence. Yeah. She's she's wonderful and she washed bottles and she made me lunch and just love her. And then I, you know, proceeded to text her every other day for the next few weeks because I forgot everything I knew about babies. And she referred me, she ended up referring me to a wonderful lactation consultant at Northside who was awesome and helped me so. much with my breastfeeding journey with Ford because even though he was a better nurser than Kit, he still wasn't great. Yeah. And so we ended up doing some occupational therapy with him for his tongue and I nursed him for eleven months and he did great. He was a chubby little nugget. He was. Until he started walking and he started burning calories. He was a pot belly monkey. Yeah. But yeah, now that's our little Fortellini. I know. Okay. So I don't know if you know, but we always like to ask our guests on the Arrivals podcast to describe birth in three words. Yeah, I I obviously knew this was coming and I didn't think about it. This is hard. I feel for all of my guests. Okay, birth in three words. Mm, how have I not thought about this? You should feel for your guests now. I do. I really do. Put on the spot. I know, I really do. Spiritual. There's just nothing like bringing life into this world to make you feel like there's something bigger than us out there. Okay, so spiritual. And then I think primal. Mm-hmm. Because I can't help but think about Well, it's very unmalistic in like the actual act of it. But it also just really makes me think about all the millions and millions of women before me who have done the same thing in the same way. Yeah. And just it's like it's a primal intuitive act, you know. Yeah, you're talking about all the different things like the urge to push and all those things where your body, if you're listening, is it seems like for the most part is telling you when it's ready, when you're ready, when it's time, yeah, when you should push. Yeah, your brain takes a backseat and it becomes very physically primal. Yeah. And then I think miraculous. That's a good one. It's just Every birth is a little miracle, conception's a miracle. it is miraculous that that act of bringing a life into the world, of going this this human going from being able to breathe inside your body to now Breathing outside of your body. And our belly buttons are like evidence of how we were all connected to our moms. And I don't know. I don't know if that's miraculous, but it's just all of it is it's miraculous. And I I think it's really cool that there's still a lot that we don't know about the birth process. And in some ways, I kind of hope that we don't learn it because it just feels like this really sacred, maybe that's another word, sacred. It feels like this really sacred experience between mother and child. And maybe we don't need to know every detail between point A and point b Z. I don't know. So spiritual, primal, miraculous, slash sacred. I get four since I'm the host. Well, this was fun. this was so fun. I don't want it to end, but I guess we gotta wrap up. All right. Well you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. Bye guys. Yay. Sorry.