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The Bold Mission to Empower 100,000 Women by 2035 · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women, by investing in women.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Investing in women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the uk's most family friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with uk's most family friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Today I am chatting with Anaise Cormott, who is a career strategist with HerCode, and we're going to be talking all about her mission to empower a hundred thousand women to build a career that they are truly passionate about by 2035, and some tips from Anais about how you can do that yourself.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, anais, for joining me today.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the invitation.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I'm excited.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So what?
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Where, where does this passion come from, then?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: To empower 100,000 women to build a career that they're passionate about that?
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: That's a very good question, so I think it probably came from a pain point.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go straight in.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Actually, I've experienced burnout pretty early in my career.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: When I say pretty early, I was in my early 20s and I did the master degree.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I had a massive, you know, student debt on top of my head and I thought procurement was the thing for me, because I love being a buyer, I love the international aspect of things, and unfortunately, I ended up taking over a project where the person before me did a burnout herself and I thought this was a fantastic opportunity and it was, and I was really keen and I was really driven and I wanted to make the best and the best impact and it was too much, it was just too much.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And so, um, you know, the, the, the feeling in my stomach became bigger, bigger, and one day I was in the office and, you know, my manager asked me a question and my brain stopped working and I just I just melted, I just my I stopped, stopped working.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: And I remember this day very vividly.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I was in that meeting room and she was asking me questions and I was not able to answer them.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It was it, it was it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: And so actually I realized that it didn't mean the rest of my career should be this way.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: It was obviously a one-off experience and it didn't mean procurement was over, but since that day, since that massive change in the way I saw work, my relationship with work as well, I decided to make a conscious decision to build a career that felt like it was making sense to me, that it was making me the best version of myself, and I mean, when you're not happy in a job, it could really have an impact, not only, you know, in terms of confidence, but in terms of emotions, in terms of even physical health.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: You know, because I was after that experience, I was off for a couple of days, I was really, really down, and I'm actually at the stage where I'm 33 in full transparency.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Um, I've been working for the past seven years now, so I'm at the point where I've worked more that I haven't and actually I've realized that there is just so much to life than working for the sake of working.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: We have to make really informed decisions.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So that's a very long way for me to answer your question, but I guess this burnout was a tipping point and then, since then, I've had a couple of experience, as I've mentioned, because I didn't wanted this to define.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I wanted to do when it comes to becoming a buyer, so I've worked, you know, for one of the before.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: We've talked about it before.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: I've worked as a consultant as well, and I've really loved the people I was working with.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I was really following that voice of let's have an impact, let's make sure I build the right relationships, and it makes sense to me and I just realized that, whilst I love the people I was working with, the bottom line when you're a buyer, when you're in procurement, is cost savings, which is fair enough.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: It has to be done right.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: But one of the work I was involved with I'm not going to share too much details for confidentiality, but we ended up having to make people redundant as a result of the work I did when I was a consultant and we're looking at like hundreds in terms of members, and that was before COVID.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: That was before this was a thing.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: This is me here quoting and I realized, realized, if anything, I want to help people with their career, not the other way around.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: So this is just not working for me.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I need to do something different and I actually stumbled across coaching for me personally first, because I was just at the point where I thought I've give everything I could to procurement.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I did it for a couple of years.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I've tried different companies, different teams and I think something is missing.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: So let's find out what would that be.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Let's go with coaching first as in.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Let's have some tools that I could use to help me navigate that uncertainty.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: And I did.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: It was a two-day sort of tasting course.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: I did that and got home my boyfriend then her husband was like what have they done to you?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Have they given you drugs?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Because I was so buzzing I was like oh my god, this is amazing.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: This is all about people.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: This is about empowering them to be themselves.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: There is no cost savings, there is no excel spreadsheet, it's just the people's agenda.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, it was love at first sight, I think it's fair to say, and that was seven years ago, and so since then there was, it was just a no-brainer, it was I have to be a coach.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: This is just what I need to do.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Next, um, and I didn't want it again her quoting just to be a coach.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I wanted this to have an impact, to have a mission, so I thought I need a number.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: My number one value is growth, so I thought let's, let's put like a challenging number where I feel I'll have a positive impact on you know, this planet and me being here.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And I thought 1,100, this is gigantic, this is humongous.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So let's, let's go for that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Um, when I first started full transparency, it was all about empowering professionals to build a career they're happy with.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I didn started full transparency.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It was all about empowering professionals to build a career they're happy with.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily want it to work only with women.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I was working with everyone.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: But as I started doing more of the work probably because also of who I am.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I worked a lot more with women, or a lot of women were working to work with me, and I've realized themes such as self-confidence, imposter syndrome, career motherhood came up again and I was like there is just too much that needs to be done and if you think the gender pay gap is going to take 131 years to be bridged, I was like I need to pick my battles and I think this is going to be mine for the foreseeable future, at least until 2035,.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Challenge accepted.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that was a very long intro for your question.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Wow, no, that is really.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've got so many questions really.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: How did you, I guess, grow your so did you?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: You left corporate and then just went straight into self-employment, or were you sort of working for yourself whilst you built it up and then left corporate?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: So I'm glad I'm here Again.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, elizabeth, for the invitation.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: For anyone listening, please just don't do what I'm about to say.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I did exactly what I work with my clients not to do, which is I passed my coaching qualification in parallel of my work and then I set a date in the diary when I had my coaching qualification, so I was fully ready to be a coach, qualified, and so on.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I put a date in the diary I think it was like 3F of August 2020.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Eight, I think nine, can't remember and I actually said I'm going to put, you know, three months set aside to pay the rent, pay the bills, and I'm going to just give everything.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I got full time Because back then I wasn't married, didn't have any mortgage, didn't have any kids.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So I was like this is, you know, once in a lifetime opportunity and, as you can imagine, building a business takes more than three months.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: It takes years, if not decades, and so I had a couple of avenues.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I worked with my network.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I distributed I think it was 3,000 postcards across town to offer free coaching sessions, and all of that obviously was taking a month to be something.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: And so what I did because I realized savings were definitely not there anymore.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: A business was taking longer to be built.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I decided to become a freelance coach, so I've been coaching since then, but I was working with other companies, so that was allowing me to do the thing I love the most.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I was building up the business that's a good idea yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: So what I would recommend to anyone in a particular situation like this one is have a think about building the business a little bit more before you know jumping in definitely absolutely.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a little bit like you, though.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I tend to jump in things headfirst and then start.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Then, like you know, a couple of weeks later I think, oh no, what have I done?
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: That was a bit impulsive, but then again, I suppose the other thing is, you can just procrastinate and not do anything.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: So there's, there's a fine line, I guess.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And 100, and this is why, in the intro, I shared that my number one value is growth.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is for the best of all, the worst, probably right, I think it relates.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I can, I can't stand still too long, no.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: You know it's interesting you talk about values because a lot of people listen to this and think, oh, I don't know what my values are.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: How have you determined what your values are?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the first time I came across them, as in properly naming them, was through the coaching qualification, so a couple of years ago.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: To be honest, as simple as I've got a tool that I use with my clients and they use it on me.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: It's a massive list.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I think it does have probably like a hundred values.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: They're by categories, you know, like feelings or spirituality, and then within each of them you've got words, and so the way I go about it is, I usually revisit my values every I don't know three to four years, I would say, when I became a mom, to be honest, I revisited, I visited, when I first become a mom, as in 15 months ago, and I did it again this year because, like you know, motherhood is a journey your values can change them it did 100%, for me at least, not necessarily everyone.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and so, yeah, just going through the list, picking your top 10, the one that really speaks to you, putting a definition next to it as in why it matters, and then, from that 10, what's the number one like?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: What's the really thing that, for you, drives everything else, and for me it's growth?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Do you do a lot of self.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm thinking?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Growth as well, because I love self-help books.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like me and you are quite similar.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I read like self, you know personal development books all the time Yep, yep, yep, they're all there.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, what?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: They're all there, yes, what's your favorite?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: What's your favorite personal development book?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I think for me has to be play big by tara moore, and I'll put that one on my list.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, please, I can.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I can just send it to you, because I think if some of my clients are listening to this they'll be like, yeah, she shipped it to me, like I send it to all of my clients.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: So, more than happy to send one, I should probably have like a partnership.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Her name is tara moore and, yeah, it's, it's a really good one what's yours, I love um.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: At the moment I'm reading the five second rule by Mel Robbins.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I love her.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I love her TED talk so much yeah, that's a good one, um, although I'm still like not brilliant when the alarm goes off and she's like you have to count down five.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: You know five to zero, then go.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I'm like I literally counted down about five six times before I get up.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Um, and then I really like um, why 10x is easier than 2x?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know this one.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I love that one.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: That's dan sullivan and the other person okay somebody with it, and they also wrote the gap and the gain as well, which is a really good one I've heard about this one.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, love that yeah, so I do like a personal development me too, me too.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: I love bernie brown as well yes, I've not read any of hers actually there to lead, probably my favorites definitely so you started your current coaching.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: You're doing one-to-one coaching, yes, all right, and then.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: But now you've sort of moved on.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I know you still do one-to-one coaching.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, all right, and then.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: But now you've sort of moved on.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I know you still do one-to-one coaching, but you've got what prompted you to set up her circle.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: What is her circle?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: yes, so essentially the company is called her code and it's an umbrella when it comes to everything that happens in there.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And so her circle to be honest, it's a almost like a play on board, as in, I already had like the logo draft up and stuff and I feel circle in the sense of circle of trust, essentially.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So Her Circle is an online membership for women who are looking to grow professionally, but not necessarily do it by themselves, because something we haven't touched base on, but probably everyone has picked up so far hearing me, is that I'm not from the UK, so I've actually moved here 10 years ago, and so something that is implicit within her circle.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's open to every woman, but a lot of the members are either relocating or have relocated abroad, and so there is that what to the UK or to somewhere else, somewhere else, to be honest, I mean mostly, I mean a lot of them are in the UK, because what happens is it's something that we do online, as in, we've got virtual events every week, but there also um events that I host, I would say, every two to three months.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: So it's it's an opportunity to navigate a career that sometimes can be challenging, not by yourself and not feeling like everything is wrong with you, because you know, when you get rejected after job interviews or you start your business and it's taking longer than you know expected, it could feel very daunting.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: It could, you know, take a toll on your self-confidence.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, absolutely so.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: That sounds um.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: So you do that.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: What is those events online or offline?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: so both so her circle, runs online.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Um, we've got weekly events and then we've got the face-to-face event, mostly in central london, which are happening every quarter and is it?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I know you sort of touched on like women that have relocated, but is it?
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is it specific discipline, you know?
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Is it women, like in tech or engineering, or is it open to anybody?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: it's across disciplines because I love the magic that happens when people from different industries get in a room together yeah, do you know?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I keep telling people that networking is such the best way to go, I think, to build a career, because often jobs you know they're not all advertised and actually you know it's who you know, not not what you know always, and people.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Often I keep reading this is all your network is your network?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: yes, it is cheesy in a way, as in we've seen it so many times recently.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: It is so true.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, do you know, elizabeth, I'm sure you know that the 70 percent of the job market is hidden?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as in you know, people spend so much time and energy applying to roles but they're either already taken um or they already have like favorite candidates in mind, so you've got really, really slim chances.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So, like you said, if you really invest your time in networking, building relationship, it could pay off so much more.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I know for some people it's hard or they're not sure how to get started with that.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: How would you say to get started then?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good question.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Definitely start with your goals, as in are you looking to stay in the same industry?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Are you looking to go somewhere else?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Are you looking to genuinely build a relationship?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people think about networking and feel overwhelmed, but actually it doesn't have to be.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: If you really think about what matters to you, what your objectives are, this is actually going to give you a clear line of sight.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: You're going to be able to focus your effort and your attention.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: So start with your objectives.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And the second thing is think about what would be a good networking for you.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Would you rather do one-to-one relationship building?
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Would you be in a room I think a lot of people again think networking equal entering into a room where it's just sad and you just have to, like awkwardly, reach out to people.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't have to be this way.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: You can decide to network literally by joining your running course.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe you don't like running, but you know I mean like there are different ways to.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, after hobbies, that's it.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So being intentional about potentially one to two avenues that could work for you.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And then I would very much say the third thing is to be consistent.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: So don't do like a one-off and expect to get thousands of results.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Um, I always talk about networking as gardening, you're planting seeds, so have fun planting your seeds.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, being out and having those conversations, and also take the time to water those seeds and see what happens.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: But don't be disappointed if not all the seeds are popping up.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna stop my analogy now I know what you mean.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I like that analogy and often you know they do say that I love this one as well.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: In this analogy about trees, the best time to plant a tree was yesterday.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: The second best time is today.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love this one.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I like your seed ones as well that's it and um, and yeah, I would very much give, I would say between three months to nine months, literally a pregnancy, to see what happens.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Because, again, a lot of people give it a couple of weeks and then they're disheartened and just stop it, but it's actually taking a lot of more time than just a few weeks.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: So it's not as transactional as you apply for a job, you get a result, but it can pay off so much more in the long term, absolutely I, you know.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I started my job board through my network.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: You know it was my network that posted our first jobs.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I I know how important it is to have to not burn bridges.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Even if you hate your job at the moment and you want to leave, don't burn any bridges absolutely.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Relationships are so key, whether it's someone that you're actively speaking with or someone, like you said, that you've crossed pathway didn't necessarily, you know, enjoy working with, but there's, it's, still a relationship, whether you like it or not.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: So might as well, you know make the most of it.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: So, when you became a mom fairly recently, is your, your little one, 15 months old?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, from yesterday, yes, so how's your perspective on career changed?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: elizabeth.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I mean it's so funny, right, because I've been doing this for seven years.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: So for seven years I've I've worked very intensively with working moms and I consider myself pretty empathetic so I could feel what they were going through.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: But until you don't go through, you don't know what it is to become a mom.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: And so I had all of the theory of the word.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: But I have to say this has definitely sort of reinforced what I already had in my gut feeling.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: So in my gut feeling I already knew that I wanted to do more when it comes to, you know, community and events like we've just talked about with Her Circle.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: But becoming a mom, it has accelerated this in the sense that I do not have the luxury anymore to fluff around.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I've got dedicated time in the day.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I need to make the most out of it because, a, I want to make sure when I'm not with him it matters, and also, b, when he's a little bit older and he understands what I do, I want to be in a position to explain that what I do is obviously something I'm very passionate about, but you also have a positive impact.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I want to be a role model and an inspiration to him.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah, double the motivation probably is my answer to your question.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Do you know what it was interesting, what you said as well on your form, about there are different seasons in life.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Do you think, like a lot of women, maybe their expectations are a bit high?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: You know it's very.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously things shift when you become a parent and you know if you're used to like going 120 miles per hour, it's.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: It's quite difficult to do that for any parent, male, you know, male or female when you're, you know, surviving on a few hours sleep, your baby's teething, your baby's not very well.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Nursery's you know they're short because the kids are sick.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: You know how do you navigate that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: I think first of all, um, in french we say, which means I need to give this um seasonality.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I guess back to who said it first.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: It was Jennifer Spurr.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: If anyone has come across her, great, if you haven't followed her on LinkedIn, she's fantastic, she's a leadership coach and she's the one who has, like, coached me online through the seasonality of motherhood.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, thank you to Jennifer for that, because of motherhood.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, thank you to jennifer for that, because, exactly like you said, um, there are moments in motherhood and when you're in the thick of it, you really feel like this is just a dark hole and it will never end.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Full disclosure we've spent literally the first year really struggling with sleep.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Um, I was so angry when I was seeing people messaging me and be like sleep when the baby sleeps, and I was like it just doesn't sleep.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so it's been.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: It's been a really really challenging first year.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Um, from that perspective, it took me a while to embrace that seasonality that comes with motherhood and I'm sure, when I'll be in the thick again, maybe for other reasons further down the line, it would be important for me to remember this conversation you and I are having right now.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: But the one thing I would very much say is, when you think about your life before becoming a parent, you don't have as much not expectations, it's not the right word, but you don't have the same um reliance as keeping a human alive, yeah, and so going through parenthood it really forces you to put yourself still there, because you have to obviously look to a minimum after yourself, but essentially there is a little human who rely on you and it just flips your entire world upside down, whether you like it or not.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And so Going through that process myself again, thinking that I've been in the UK for 10 years, we don't have any family nearby to help us, it was rough, it was brutal, and also I gave birth on the 31st of December, so hello, dark winter.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got a good birthday, though, yeah they do and, to be honest, I'd rather the 31st than the 1st of Jan if I were to choose.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know if I'm answering your question when it comes to seasonality, but that's my take on it.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's raw, it's brutal and but it passes exactly that.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: And also, you have to give yourself grace, and I was so hard on myself, I did so many mistakes, like I didn't plan my mat leave, I think it's hard when you're self-employed, it is because when you're employed, I made my maternity leaves.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I was employed, so I had that dedicated year off where you know I could just be mom and didn't have to work.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You know, and didn't really think about work because it's not my business.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: But once it's your business, it's very hard to switch off from that and you know if you're in charge and you're getting emails and stuff, you know.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, you know, even if you pass things on, I guess you know the book always stops with you if it's your own business so I do always feel for people that have you know take maternity leave when they're self-employed.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, to be honest, as I was thinking about our interview uh, together today, our conversation, I was trying to remember one of the lessons learned, and so one of them is if you're self-employed, get your head in the game, because it's very confusing.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: You've got hmrc with the statutory maternity pay sorry, I can't pronounce it properly and then you've got, I think, the maternity allowance with the statutory maternity pay sorry, I can't pronounce it properly and then you've got, I think, the maternity allowance with the department of work, and like it's a whole thing, it's a whole word, yeah, yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And so, like you said, if you're self-employed, um, first of all, obviously you're in charge, it's your business, did it?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: This business is my first baby.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a physical one, but it's still yeah, you put a lot, yeah, a lot of effort into it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it um, but it it actually also means that you're caring by yourself.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So make yourself, make sorry, make sure that you surround yourself with the right people in terms of content.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: The accountant saved me on this one.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, thank god they were here because, yeah, it's a little bit messy to make it happen, um, when you don't have like an entire organization who does it for you yeah, yeah, you don't have like an entire organization who does it for you.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have a machine behind you.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I get that.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And then the other thing you were talking about before we jumped on the call was about this definition of success as well, and redefining what career success looks like and how.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Not one size fits all, how you know, if someone's listening to this, how can they define what their version of career success is?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, very good question.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Uh, full disclosure.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: By the way, I do not drink coffee, so if I'm really speaking fast about this, it's just because I'm passionate on the topic.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, I think success, when we think about it, is overrated.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: When we think success, we think about the finances, we think about the title, we think about the title, we think about the big name of the company that we're working for and for some people, it is their definition of success and that's absolutely fine.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: But I think for anyone who's listening to this who think how can I actually define what success look like for me?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Well, have a think about what matters to you.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Obviously, this is the Working Like a Mom podcast, so I'm assuming a lot of you are either, you know, parent or thinking about becoming one whilst navigating your career.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And when it comes to your definition of success, have a think about what it is Because, again, even within that spectrum which you think it's a little bit smaller than you know, wide career success there are still some expectations that, for example, you're a mom, then you have to be there for your kids.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: But actually I work with some clients.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: They love that it's their partner in charge, they love that they are the one driving the career that the main brain winner and their partner are actually super thrilled to be the main carer in that relationship.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to career success, I would very much say, start by honestly asking yourself the right question what matters to me, what do I care about?
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And also, where would I want this career to be in 10, 20 years down the line?
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Like if you were to travel in time.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite thing to do.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You're looking at I don't know the 50, 60, 70 years old version of yourself and she would be looking back.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: What would you like her to say?
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: What would you like her to have done?
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: That's sometimes easier because we get stuck sometime in the present, in our own head, in our own constraints.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So, just taking yourself away, travel to time, just ask yourself this question and see what happens I like that.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: So remind people how you work with them then and then where they can find you.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, um.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So how I work very much on a one-to-one basis, um, I do have a signature program called the korean confidence program, um, but I also offer, you know, adult coaching because, like we've just mentioned, career success is very much unique to everyone.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Um, so anyone can find me on linkedin.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I think this is actually how we've met in the first place yeah, yeah, we'll put your link on linkedin um your linkedin link in the show notes uh, so yeah, find me on linkedin, and then I also offer career strategy sessions for 25 minutes.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: So anyone who feel a bit stuck, not sure where to start, don't necessarily know if they want to work with a coach or not, but then you just need, like someone else, a sounding board.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Please also message me, um, because I can absolutely support you with them.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Um, and then for those of you who are interested in joining the, the club and membership, um, there is also a link that I can share for that.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Um, we've got our next session, actually at the end of of this week.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And do you get group coaching and things like that in the community?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, so in the community we run a group accountability session, which is the one this Friday, actually Every month.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, every month.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: We just line up and we're like, ok, new month, new beginning, what's happening?
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Where are you at?
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: What are your?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: career objectives Lovely.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: I lovely.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's really nice to have that accountability, isn't it?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Accountability is the word for me.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: 100%, that's your other word, that's your other value.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Growth and accountability, yeah, brilliant.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so so much for joining me today.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: It was a real pleasure to chat with you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you, elisabeth for having me and thank you everyone for listening thank you for listening to another episode of the work.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: It like a mom podcast.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: If you're on linkedin, please send me a connection request at elizabeth willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You can can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.