Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / Being near someone isn't easy establishing trust with someone whose not indigenous

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Being near someone isn't easy establishing trust with someone whose not indigenous · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Marina Crane: sexuality and okay so ⁓ hello this is like a second time I'm interviewing with Missy and Jane now I'm not hearing too much from Jane so I expected to speak up this time so ⁓ they've come to visit me and I wanted to have a discussion. We're having a discussion on healthy human sexuality. And I wanted to talk about my trip to Las Vegas in terms of motivation and ⁓ just balance in terms of how I manage things. So in my previous podcast, I talked about wiping away tears ceremony and releasing soul ceremony and how ⁓ when someone passes away, it's the whole year of preparation. so I gifted ⁓ Lynette and Sierra and what Joshua's gifts. Now, each each of them has there's a reason for the gift giving because in the courtroom, I basically was there to witness. Nathan Chasinghorse being sentenced because of what he's done to my niece Roberta and that she had died and even though she had disclosed later, she did tell the truth what he did to her. Nobody listened like Sierra said she made ⁓ complaints with the police and nobody did anything. Well, it's the same thing with Roberta ⁓ but there's countless probably other victims that had gone and had tried to press charges against Nathan and the police authorities didn't do nothing. Now what does it have to do with this whole trial with Nathan chasing horse? Well sometimes people get a little bit bored when they look at they look and they say ⁓ that's just like you know what is it? So I'm going to read this letter that I sent to Wachash to Wachde. and why I gifted. I want to take this moment to share some thoughts about what it truly means to be a witness for truth and reconciliation in Canada. Embracing this role is an active and ongoing commitment, one rooted in acknowledging the deep harms caused by Indian residential school system. It requires us to move beyond simply observing and instead to engage wholeheartedly with the stories and experience shared by survivors, intergenerational survivors, and Indigenous communities. As witnesses, you listened with intent and empathy, honouring their truths without minimizing or deflecting them. But listening is only a beginning. Our responsibility extends beyond hearing to acting. It means educating those around us, challenging colonial narratives wherever they persist, and supporting Indigenous-ledged efforts to advance the calls to action laid by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the TRC. The commitment reaches deep into our daily lives, shaping how we build relationships, influence policies, and foster meaningful reconciliation. Being a witness means accepting the responsibility to ensure that the truths you hear are not forgotten or overlooked. By doing so, you help contribute to healing, support transformative change, and advance the ongoing journey towards reconciliation. Thank you for considering what this important role embodies and for your dedication to shape a better future. This is the spirit behind the gesture of gift giving for you. While the gift you may be a lighter in your hands, for me it symbolizes your efforts and your duty to carry forward this acknowledgement of what you have witnessed. So when I talk about cohorts and allies that aren't indigenous, that are there to bear witness, There's a hell of a lot of white people who can't do that. Like I've grown up my whole life in the city and I've a lot of white people and I've had to stop being friends with some of them because they could not, when I would talk to them about my personal history, it was a challenge for them. They couldn't hold space for me. And because they couldn't hold space for me, they couldn't actually bear witness to the injustice that I had lived through. And it's not just white people. I know it's with Indigenous people too because my going down to the States, I lost some friends from Soutenna just because of their attitude towards me. Like I said, you know, when I was talking about my older brother's granddaughter, the lady who sent me that post, she knew it was going to hurt me, but I didn't know because I don't have that lady on my Facebook, but this woman did. And I thought, why is she sending me this to hurt me? See, the thing is, I didn't want nobody to know I was going down to Las Vegas. And like I said to Wachash to Wachate, I said, I'm behaving like I did when I was promiscuous. You this is like going away for a sexual activity and nobody needs to know that I'm doing this. That's why I was like using it as a metaphor. I'm doing this and if anybody wants to know, I'll let them know. But again, too. The lady who, when she found out that I went to Vegas, said, you went to Las Vegas? All of them did, these two ladies that I spoke to about. But because what Chashtra was there was witnessed by this woman, she knew that I was with this man, a white man. A white man who looks like a model. Some people say he looks like a model. For me, I've been around women so much that I'm gay. just find male energy is just, know, ⁓ a male energy. That's it. I'm attracted, but I didn't understand ⁓ because I didn't understand trust. And maybe this could help you too. ⁓ When I first met him, ⁓ he called me. He said, I heard you on a podcast and I've read your blog. I'm interested in doing a story. I had been friends with a forensic psychologist for over 30 years. And ⁓ I told what chashto wash tse. I said, this forensic psychologist came to my home with the tribal police. And the tribal police apologized for the way they had treated and handled me. 20 years ago, even though they weren't working 20 years ago. And ⁓ they apologize for, you know, like not protecting me. And I mean, that's beyond the fact. mean, all that, you know, all the lateral violence that I still experience, you can't take it away. But the forensic psychologist sat here talking to the two tribal police and he started disclosing stuff about our former chief. He said he had a propensity for boys. Now get this, after the fact, the chief was charged with two historical sex assault charges in Edmonton. I don't know if you... It's on the... It's everywhere. It's on the... You can type in his... He's got a picture of his... Okay, but at the time, this was like two... What? Three years ago when Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested. So this forensic psychologist used to be this... chief's therapist, but he disclosed this to the tribal police, which is a no-no. I'm sitting here not even under, like, he didn't disclose it to me. Why would he? Because he's exactly what he is. would be a predator. He's a predator. Who's a predator? Why the forensic didn't disclose it to you because he knew that you would be. be upset, he'd be pissed. Well, for years he was saying, he says, I don't trust this chief. He's allowed Nathan Chasing Horse to thrive. So understand this, because this former chief was a ritual hog, spiritual hog. I don't know, he had problems with his identity and he had to have some yahoo come in and tell him that he's indigenous. He paid him five thousand bucks. Anybody from Arizona, you name it. It's like that guy with the cyanide, that kool-aid where they all worshiped him, all the women and the kids. There's a thing on him too, a white guy, they had kool-aid, they drank, they all died. Almost similar to his, but his is like all white people and his is all native? Yeah, but what I'm saying though is our chief would hire different people. to heal him rather than actually acting on it and feeling it. See, healing has to do with feeling. So if you feel ⁓ ashamed or if you feel intimidated or angry or just ⁓ frustrated, ⁓ just violated, you feel like you don't fit in or something, you have to feel it. If you're a fawn and you're allowing people to make you feel guilty, then making you're feeling guilty has nothing to do with healing. So this former chief, he had surrogate spiritual people coming in. to basically, know, abracadabra, performance art, you know, like you're going to be healed without actually doing the work because he's a political person. So when the forensic psychologist, see, and I didn't expect him to disclose this shit to the two female constables. I was just here, you know, advocating like, okay, Nathan's chasing horse, you know, he's arrested. Okay, and like this is my this is what happened and you're apologizing for how you treated me when I tried to disclose about Roberta and the whole process of why I approached Nathan Chasinghorse and I said to him all these women are Infatuated with you. You just need to straighten it out because he was claiming he was a youth worker He wasn't claiming to be a medicine man or a movie star He was claiming he was a youth worker and I've worked with youth so I thought This shouldn't be hard for him to go to the police and say, she's infatuated with me. I've dealt with other youth and this is, you I need to talk to her. We'll call her in and I'll explain to her that I have a girlfriend and I've had, you know, all that. That's all I had to do as a youth worker, but he didn't. Like that's why I say I never trusted him. You know, I never gave him tobacco. For the five ceremonies that were established, I made sure, like say for your father-in-law, he gave him tobacco. All these other things, these other five other people, they gave Nathan tobacco, but I never did. I arranged four the sessions at their homes and that was it. Because the women wanted to bond with their daughters. You know, just like how you're interacting. Right now. Right now. That's what the women wanted, but I thought they could do it like in ceremony guided by a youth worker. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Yes, wrong. OK. So like I said, this forensic psychologist disclosed all this stuff about the former chief. And the reality of it is like I knew that I shouldn't have even been listening. Because when Nathan chasing, when Nathan took those two two women with him. were just children, 15, 14. And one of the girls here from Siutena. ⁓ She initially charged him. Roberta took like at least five years before she tried to charge him. And the other two ladies, you know, until he got arrested three years ago, they finally put in those charges. So there's a historical evolution happening. But at the same time too, there has to be some clarity in who's doing what and who had the courage and who's been fighting all this time. See, for me, Nikki Big Crow is... is someone to be admired because from the get-go she tried and there was no support for her, nothing. But she came forward 20 years ago. Like I said, Roberta came forward, what, 15 years ago? Everybody was too caught up because he was brown and famous and the guy would just do nothing and nobody didn't want to deal with Nathan or didn't even want to. Well, I think a lot of it too had to do with just the trafficking, human trafficking, the shame of being trafficked. And this is what's so disgusting is like, and I know again, I'm gonna say to my listeners, if it offends you on my definition of what happens to grooming and trafficking, as an elder who hasn't been sexually active in 49 years, it's disgusting. It's disgusting what men do to steal indigenous children. do, and it doesn't matter if they're indigenous, it's just trafficking. They will take the individual and they will gang rape them for at least four days solid. Sex, sex, sex, like 12 hours straight. Just have groups of men coming in there having sex with the child. The child's body gets heated up so hot after four days, the fifth day they just let them sleep it off. These children are not allowed to stop having sex for the four days of grooming. After, like on the fifth day when they put them to rest, their bodies are so hot from all that sexual activity, all that rape. On the fifth day, if the human body does not naturally cool down, it dies. Did you know that? I seen it on a clipping and I cried about it and I had some people tell me about how, put it this way, a person raped a baby and the baby died. That's how sickening it is. So with this nascent, just because they're 12, that's no different than someone violating a baby. And that sickening period don't matter if he was brown and famous, but that's wrong. But the fact that they're followers, the followers who are grooming 14, 15 year olds, like any other. can't die, yes. Or even 10, like I don't know how old the children are trafficked, but the fact that their bodies go through. all this to like they're grooming getting their bodies conditioned to to have sex repeatedly during the day because they're they're they're selling them for money if they survive this ordeal of their bodies cooling down then then they're they're making money for the traffickers but if they don't they die and they're part of the murdered and missing that's why I'm saying the epidemic of our children in foster care being trafficked and be missing. Sometimes within days they're on ads for companionship. Because they've already been conditioned physically. Like I said, if it's disgusting and hard for my listeners, it's just disgusting. It's disgusting for me. Back to Nathan, it's disgusting. It's disgusting, period, about that man and what he's doing in jail and when he crosses over, he's got more to answer for. This is the start of his sin and answering to his wrong doing. But even look at our former chief, who hired him to come into the community for 20 years. They paid for the rent of those teenagers who followed him because he was hoping and persisting they were going to be models. Without an education, without high school, this man systematically He had so much control over those children, those teenagers who were his wives. No education. And the children he had, he homeschooled them. No education. He had total control over them. Nothing. Whatever human development, emotional development, he stalled it for them. They were scared. They were scared and again, think they were, you know, even the limerence or the fawning and the fact that he took them when they were not even understanding consent, which is what's so horrific because that's damaged them for the rest of their lives. And I say that because like for me, I'm, this is my 19 year old self talking about sexually assaulted. I knew consent. I know. the things I've had to deal with in my own personal life in terms of emotional and sexual development, I cannot comprehend how I would process these if I was a child that didn't understand consent. Because you're dealing with illusions or delusions because a child doesn't know. Okay, so the reality of it is like, you know, the amount of money he took, he took from Sue Tina. Do you know, like the various, there were a couple of chiefs who would still pay rent for those girls he took. Those girls he was trafficking in the States from here, they paid for their rent. You know, he basically had his own... Like, it's horrible. There's like, what do call, tax evasion, racketeering, embezzlement. You know, there's so many things he did in establishing companies under their names. Like, it was so sophisticated. They should just threw the book at him. That's at the federal level. The state just took the state charges. That's why if people are trying to minimize and say, ⁓ yeah, he was a powwow person. No, excuse me. Soutenna had money. My brother was making a hell of a lot of money when Nathan and him negotiated over Roberta. He gravitated to people who had money, and our former chief had money. Our former chief and what he's going to deal with. with his charges, that's on his head. But when we talk about compassion, I said, my brother, I show him compassion. I know what him and Nathan did is unforgivable. But compassion because he has children. Yeah, compassion because of that. Yes. But the other part is unforgivable. And the thing with Nathan chasing horses that it's a very hard thing. for people who loved and adored this bastard, to even understand the gravity. the depravity of him being sexually aroused over children. Like it took, obviously when he was a teenager, high risk boy, he started becoming promiscuous. And then it evolved into like, by the time he was 30, he had 10 kids, but he was already being a pedophile, I'm assuming in my personal opinion, by the time he was 18 or 19. Because like when, Mocasta was there. He he had good-looking women. I said, well, before 2006, the women he had were gorgeous. In 2007, seems like the women went downhill in terms of appearance because, again, he had to practice polygamy because he became openly polygamous. And I said it's because he met a Mormon family, my family. My niece, my older brother's daughter, was collecting tithing for him like in the Mormon church, every month sending it to him. You know, we talk about the Stockholm Syndrome. Something horrific happened to her. She will not lay charges. She still defends him, the same with her daughter. You saw on that piece that I quoted. So right now they're caught up in his evil, they're cladded with his evil... They're what? They're clouded because they don't want to defend, they're defending themselves because they're left clouded in their minds. They don't want to step away. They should be stepping away. That's what needs to happen. Yes, but it's, it's, ⁓ one of the followers who came into my home, because remember there were three men who came, Mike, Fernando and Lorenzo, and also Melissa. There were four people in my home when Dan was having a Sundance here. And when he was arrested, they were going to charge these people. The FBI were going to charge them. And they said, we'll grant you clemency as long as you testify against him. That's the federal law. But the state says, no, we're going to charge him. They're guilty too? We're going to charge him just at the state level. ⁓ So I don't know if they're going to be protected, those older men. OK, but the reason I'm mentioning that is, say one of them, like I know these men are still out there living their best lives and the same you know like do you know that yes we know I know that because because the federal government the federal the FBI said they were going to protect them if if they were charged at the federal level but but they he wasn't So whatever's going to happen afterwards, that still has to be dealt with after Nathan Chasingor has his appeal. Because he can appeal. Once it's done, then the system in Canada will charge him. OK, so there's a whole legal process still happening. Now, the reason I'm mentioning, what did you call that, cloudedness? Cloud. Clouded. those men, they're still involved in this. These older women, they're still clouded. They called it Stockholm syndrome. Now, the one, he put out a mortgage for a home. Not for him or his ex-wife and their 15-year-old child. It's for his... It was for Nathan Chasinghorse's parents. Now the other one, he's a Greek guy, when my niece wanted tickets in Calgary for a concert, they were all sold out. So what did she do? She text him in California. He says, the tickets are waiting for you in Calgary. That's how connected he is with the entertainment company. One of Nathan's brothers, followers, stuck in the Stockholm syndrome. How influential is he that he could get tickets, unobtainable tickets for my niece? And this was just what, five, six years ago. So this stuckness, this cloudedness, even though he's going to be serving life in prison. exists, but it's damaging. That doesn't even, for me, when I'm thinking about it, it doesn't erase the fact there's some people that are not here with us. There's people in the institution. That's the truth. He did so wrong. He has no remorse. He does not respect himself. If he respected himself, he would have remorse. Now, the whole thing about the survivors of Nathan Chasing Horse is that they had to start respecting themselves. Once they started respecting themselves, they could start loving themselves. And once they started loving themselves, they could actually learn to feel. Feel horrible feelings that they suppressed and deal with it. And then how do we know he's going to survive in jail? Cause from my rumor mill and I don't have, I've never been incarcerated. I was from my rumor mill. Men don't last long in jail. They will get raped because they, what they did to somebody they're, they don't, they're going to, from my rumor mill, I was told those men or women, they're going to get raped in there and some of them will be deceased in jail. Not that I want to wish him wrong again. There's people not with us today and there's people not mentally with the program and they're institutionalized. But what he's done, even though he has no remorse, there'll be men in jail that are going to hurt him. Not that I want to wish him wrong again, but there's people, these are people's kids. and I have a 16 year old, so I'm thinking about it. I'm like, no, no, no, This person's gone. They're screwing their brain because this guy. So I don't know if these older people are gonna get charged. Guilty by association, from what I see, whether someone's been with them or not, it's a small little world, whether it's America or Canada. Again, for me, people are not here today and people are messed up. Yeah, well, like I said, what he did to what he did to my brother's daughter. That was wrong. And the fact too, how it was disclosed to me ⁓ was not because the individual was close to her, but she knew friends of hers because they all belonged to, you they all did things with Nathan. They all worked around helping Nathan. She says, I just never was friends with her. But she said, but from My connections she's been telling people she's not gonna charge anybody But and again, why did she do something? Did she do something against the law? That if she does disclosure that it'll come back on her. Yeah, I don't know and again Even when are they gonna charge these men who were here in my house? You know the one lady on the on YouTube when she's talking about the impact statement, talking about, she says, since Nathan was arrested, she says, I tried killing myself three times because of what she put her daughter through. Her daughter was eight years old, 20 years ago. I saw her, when I disclosed to the tribal police, because Nathan was here, he was at the school, the elementary school, and I saw the woman. Melissa and her daughter, her daughter was just a little child. And there was Nathan and all these grown men following him, right? And all these other people standing there. How am going to go up to that little girl or her mother and say, he's dangerous when all these men are just standing there? All clouded, all like probably all in their native. Well, you know, I know. I'm not one I'm looking back. That's why I the best word to describe for me is clouded. See, and at the time, my niece, she was eight. When he would hit her on the head with a rattle, he was already at that time, already allured by children. Because I looked after my niece for seven years. I made sure she went to therapy. Whatever I could do, the whole premise was to at least save one person, if I could. I got a restraining order against Roberta to try and protect her from her sister. Everything and anything I could do. Because people would sooner just say, well, she's a rape victim. And look, Marina's sticking up for her brother. It's not that. You had compassion for your brother. What you did was unforgivable. But in the end, we don't have her here, not in this time. I stay focused. But nobody's seeing it that way. No, nobody's seeing. Nobody's seeing that I'm protecting the others. They don't see how dangerous she became. When my brother was in the newspapers, because he was published, that same newspaper had Roberta being arrested in one of Calgary's largest drug busts. She was dangerous. And this continued. So when I talked to survivors of Nathan Chasing Horse, the women that I gifted the blankets to, or even Wachashta Wachde, this Wachichu, who I had to trust, I'm talking about ⁓ matriarchy. What for me as a woman I had to do. to protect my nieces and nephews and to look after my mother. My mother was an elder whose son was going away to jail and she didn't know what was going to happen to her grandchildren. Does anybody give a shit? No. This woman who has hatred in her heart is calling my brother down, calling me down because I'm sticking up for him and that I'm a predator too, I'm a pedophile. Without even knowing the whole story or understanding, even knowing that my blog for 20 years, I tried to get across to Roberta. I knew she was on Facebook. I thought maybe she'd read my blog. Here all these women from California and other places were reading my blog. I had a woman from Oregon contact me. I don't know how she got my phone number. She said, Nathan wants me to hack into your computer. Every person that had contacted me, I tried to explain to them, do you know who I am? I'm not this woman who has rosy cheeks, dyes her hair blonde. Great, great. Shows my breasts, wears a bikini. I'm not some sort of call girl trying to seduce Nathan Chasinghorse. But that's the story he wrote for me. And the survivors told me. Like Lynette said, she said to me, she says, I came up to Sue Tena to see you. She says, and the one from Sue Tena says, there's Marina Crane. And she says, so I looked over and there I saw you, a grandma. I said, what do you think I've been trying to write about? I said, I have all his lateral violence from these women all these years, believing the lies that Nathan Chasing Horse is spinning, all his followers. These women, Lynette and them, said, Marina, for years, he'd say, don't read Marina Crane's blog. Don't Google my name. I was a threat to him 20 years ago. That's why when he saw me... you are now. I'm sorry? Interesting what you are now if you were a threat 20 years ago. Deserves we they should throw the book at him as far as I know well see people like the women that I had to give up my friendship to Do they do they even understand the impact? Do they even comprehend the just the validation? That that these people who I'm don't even know Do they even comprehend all the lateral violence of his followers had projected on me for decades and for me on my blog Still being telling the truth. This is what's happening full disclosure. This is what my brother did This is blah blah blah blah. I'm not holding anything back So people wanted to say ⁓ she's sticking up for her brother I'm showing my brother compassion by addressing things that he did that are unforgivable There is a whole process of things that he went through in Indian Residential School. I Haven't even talked about that or the things my brothers went through because they're men. I'm talking from a female point of view on how we process being healthy human sexual women as opposed to, look at that man, he's horrible. man that's taking kids. They're kids? Because he has the allure. And I'm going, why can't you see it? Like I said. Because like that lady, like I said to her on the phone, I said, listen to what you're saying to me. I said, doesn't it make sense? Like you don't know me, but you have the audacity to tell me and warn me about Nathan Chasing Horse. I said, why do you think I write my blog? Don't you think that 20 years ago, don't you think that I felt pain? Don't you think I was brokenhearted? You think what he did to me and what you're trying to tell me and warn me that he's going to hurt me? Wake the hell up! Twenty years ago he hurt me. He hurt my entire family. And you have the audacity to come and say you're rescuing me? Wake up! You're the one who's following him. You're the one who's calling me to find out if everything I'm saying is true. Doesn't that say something about your own mental state? The cloud, I call it the cloud. He clouded everybody. He clouded, that's shameful. because he's Native, he's a disgrace. Back in the day, they used to turn their back. People need to turn their back on this man. Well, turned their back to shame, disgraceful. Well, some people, like you're saying clouded, some people would call it bad medicine. Some people would even call it cursed. It's made the safe word for me because it's clouded. I don't want to give it any Because it doesn't deserve my mind. What I'm talking about is the ones that are still alive helping their lives back. Yeah, okay, yeah, because there's two different. I understand, And I, like, for me... And women that are 80s still clouded and trying to support them, that's dirty damn shame. Yeah, but there are still women, elderly women, who are still protecting perpetrators within our own communities. 80 year, what's the word I women that are older? Yeah, because they haven't... a shame. Because they haven't been able to feel. They made a choice. See, see the difference is like even, even like Mark's daughter, we won't say her name. But when, when Mark passed away and ⁓ there was some drift between the mom and daughter. All these over 10 women, girls, and the moms wanted to bond with their daughters. So that's when Nathan said he was a youth worker. And I thought, okay, the moms and daughters can bond. So all those girls came together. They all went to school with each other. But when Nathan took those two girls, those other girls that stayed here bonded. And every month they'd have meetings and talk. Today they still support each They have Zoom meetings and they support each other. I strongly, even the survivors of Nathan Chasinghors for the past 14 years have been coming together as a group of women to help each other heal. Cuz it's long process. I had said to the chief, said, we need to honor these young women. the ones who went with Nathan and the ones who are supporting their friends. Because when they went into the courtroom, ⁓ Sierra said, I saw them come in all dressed in black, standing in the back in their power. And there's Nathan Chasing, we're seeing them and couldn't do a damn thing because they knew who they were. They were supporting their friends, women supporting each other, healing. by listening to them and having them feel all that they had to feel, every anger, emotion. They were in attendance. Yes, and that the fact that she could get up and tell him how he hurt this other woman and hurt her. So when I gifted Lynette and Sierra those blankets, I said, when I was sexually assaulted, again, I'm at the age of consent at 19. I'm saying I spent 20 years thinking, ⁓ you know, like clouded. I'd rather use the word cloud. It's the best safe way because I don't know what that other word is. That's like a white man thing, but me I thought cloud is more... Cloudy brain? What's that? Foggy Foggy brain. like your brain is just clouded. Well, it's... I know I'm not clouded in my moments, but I thought that's BS, because you're right. The next group, my next women or the next... Generation? Generation like you is going to be affected. Who am kidding? Yeah. See, the yelling sucks and yes, you gotta heal. You gotta say shit the way it is. And for 20 years, I talked to people, in my community about these men who sexually assaulted me. I didn't know there were serial rapists. I didn't. And then I met this Wasichu woman. She says, Marina did, because I told her what happened. She says, did you ever talk, you know, say, talk to him and say, you hurt me? And I said, after ⁓ I was sexually assaulted, I said there were people who could have helped me, but they just allowed these men to drag me upstairs. They could have come to my rescue and pulled me down, but they didn't. I said, so I was really hurt afterwards because they were dropping us off. But the guy who had the car, he kept me in the car. And he brought me back to where the assault took place. And I said to her, when he looked at me and said, get upstairs out of the car, get out of the car and get upstairs, I turned to him and I said, if you thought I enjoyed what you did to me, you've got to be kidding. Now, I try to explain this because I think when people talk about trauma it's because you actually feel it, you're awake. Like you're there. You're there. see, I tell people the 20 scars I have in my head, I didn't feel it. The first punch I was unconscious. He just beat the bejesus out of me over and over again while I was unconscious. Didn't feel nothing. Didn't feel nothing. That's what the kind of coward he was. And this is a man... who I was raised traditionally to call uncle. He wasn't a blood uncle. He was just adopted. And yet I thought I had confronted him and told him how he hurt me. And that lady says, no. Have you looked him in the face and said what you did to me hurt me? When I realized that I didn't, all I did was say that I didn't like what he did to me. I didn't tell him I was hurt. I made sure I went to court. Took six years of investigation with the RCMP. They went into the community asking people without even telling me the RCMP did this without asking me or letting me know my let my family know. My little brother, he had one of the suit and a man come up to him for no reason and just punched him in the face. I when when when my older brother Dan when he got out of prison. walking in the gas part, one of these guys just came up to me and just punched him in the face. You know, and I try to say to people, my younger brother says, Marina, keep your mouth shut. This was because I'm trying to press charges on a historical sexual assault case. I did not know how violent people were to my brothers because of what I was trying to do. Because lateral violence wanted to keep everything shut. Everything's status quo. They wanted everybody to be in that clouded moment. it still happens. It still happens. If it's not spiritually abused to use it, nascent, it still happens. Yes, and that's the discussion too, about what happened in the trial. That's the The sentencing. So I decided to go down and okay but before that I had ⁓ like I said this fellow had approached me. ⁓ This fellow had approached me and I thought, okay, with this forensic psychologist, he contacted the forensic psychologist because it was over a podcast he saw me and this forensic psychologist. He says, I have to ethically contact him. said, well, if you're gonna interview him, I don't wanna have nothing to do with you, this guy, I said, I don't wanna have nothing to do with you. I said, I know what he's doing, this forensic psychologist. I said, he's riding on the bandwagon. said, as soon as Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested, there he is, glorifying himself, saying to the tribal police that he knew him. I said, and yet this forensic psychologist never met Nathan Chasing Horse. The only reason he knew about Nathan Chasing Horse was because I asked him to supervise visitation rights with Roberta and her siblings. He offered, but Roberta never took it. See, they weren't under child and family. I had to do this on my own. So you were the child. Yeah. Basically. And I arranged for this forensic psychologist because I'd known him. But this vachashtava shteya, I said no. I said the fact that he disclosed personal information about our former chief made me reflect what else has he disclosed about me. I said to him, I said, so if you contact him and you're going to interview him about Nathan Chasinghors, I don't want to have nothing to do with it. And the thing is like the forensic psychologist knew what was happening. That it was going to be published on national TV. So he already knew, but I haven't contacted him. Now that's the thing. I knew this forensic psychologist for 30 years. He'd come and we'd spend hours visiting like how we're talking. But I didn't... you sure he wasn't fishing for anything? he knew? And like you're saying he was on the bandwagon, doing the bandwagon mode? Like what do mean bandwagon? Bandwagon? Like he knew he was just sitting on the bandwagon. Where he's checking to see where he's gonna go. Yeah. For his own gain. For his own gain. see I didn't know this until it became public. Because as long as I had the blog and there was no feedback, I didn't know people were reading it. I didn't know anything if I was raving a red flag, nothing. I just was publishing on blind faith, just like how I do my podcast. And it is still important. So when I said to Vachashtava Shtey, I said, I'm not going to talk to you. Now that left a void because I was acquainted with this fellow for 30 years and he was separating from his wife and you know it was just I just thought something's not right so again what was he disclosing about me that I didn't know if he discuss about a former client yes yeah so so that was my argument with was Chashtra was Shdey as I don't I said this is totally opening up my eyes now the whole thing is like what Chashtra was Shdey is a is is a got a lot of male energy, a lot of typical man. Again, I'm around women all the time. So men will always be men? Men will always be men, but it triggered, his energy triggered a memory of someone that I had met 55 years ago. Okay, in order for me to trust what Shasta was saying, I had to bring up that memory. No, draft dodger. Vietnam vet. Did I ever tell you about it? Very handsome, blue-eyed, dark-haired, six foot three, draft dodger. He had a friend who was six-five blonde, both from California. ⁓ But I didn't know he was a major drug dealer in Vancouver. ⁓ It was just, it felt like he was reading my mind, I was reading his mind. ⁓ It was just dynamic. When I talk about consent and I talk about energy and I talk about electricity and shot like the electricity with the body is so profound. It's like lightning. I mean, it was like you don't realize how static you are when you meet someone who has that same that that that anyway, I I always tell people If I hadn't had that experience sexually, I don't know what my life would have been like. I think I would have thought that ⁓ sex was always a violence. know, because a lot of my friend who ⁓ had asked me if I had ever, the guy ever knew he hurt me, she said to me, says, Marina, the women I counsel, some have been raped through their married life. Every time they have sex with their husband, it's rape. Sometimes women ⁓ would be virgins and on their first ⁓ night and their honeymoon they'd catch a sexually transmitted disease. ⁓ Sometimes, like even too, when women started being around, like they had husbands who were alcoholics and they would attend AA. And again AA is a cult, that's another story. But they started having ⁓ Elanon. And so when the women started having Elanon groups because they weren't drinking, their husbands were, that women found out that the reason they were trauma bonded to these men was because of past trauma as children. So they started formulating limerence groups, groups like mental health groups over limerence. where the infatuation becomes dangerous because it's so clouded that you want love so much that you would make this illusion or delusion of this individual that's unobtainable, like the football player. Okay, but see, my limerence wasn't really extreme. I used the football player as a catalyst to motivate me to do something. So if I stop drinking and drugging and stuff, then this football player would, as an example, would find me attractive and then I'd say okay. See but it started out it started out about say 49 years ago when both my uncle and my dad passed away but but like I said I thought what they passed away within 10 months and I thought I'm not gonna ever have a man in my life is gonna protect me my father and my uncle are gone. How am I going to, who's going to look after me to make sure that when I do find a partner, a man, that he'll be good to me? If I live a certain lifestyle, as if my uncle and my dad were here, then ⁓ I'll meet this type of man. So my uncle had a very famous cowboy friend. And I thought, okay, that will be it. Like my gold, you know, it's like you want to lose weight and this is your ideal gold. Well, that's part of limerence too, is creating an illusion that if I work hard enough, this would happen. That's a mild form of limerence and we all experience that. There's also darker forms where people are clouded or obsessed. That's amazing chasing moors. Yes. Where they abuse or even are, ⁓ I'm so embarrassed for that tribe over there because I'm noticing our culture, the ancestors that pass to us. they're using it for the bone. I think horrific there should be more of a better word than horrific. Hainous. Hainous, yeah. Our spiritual practices. because even though... Well, even how in terms of respecting my uncle and dad, I was still keeping their spirits with me. I didn't know this. So there's a process of releasing their spirit and soul. So. Okay, because I needed them to protect me. ⁓ Because when I was sexually assaulted, I told them, I don't want you to be angry at this person. They called him nephew. I said, I don't want you to be angry with him. ⁓ I didn't know how it affected me. So for every ⁓ man that I was attracted to heterosexual-wise, like I said, I'm not asexual. I still was attracted to various men throughout my life. And as I processed ⁓ or went through ⁓ embracing and releasing them, it took a while. But it was a form of limerence in the sense that they were unobtainable. It was a thought, but I never acted on it. I never went out to seduce them or drink with them. ⁓ Like I didn't go beyond that, because like 49 years of not being sexually active, I, you know, with limerence, it's, there's that, it's, it's because I understood consent. And I truly believe that when you don't understand it then becomes dangerous. That's why it's an unforgettable thing what men do to children. anyway, getting back to my whole ordeal with the forensic psychologist and what Josh was there, I thought, oh my goodness, I got to trust this man. I got to trust the stranger with this whole story about Nathan chasing horse. And so I found out how much text I sent him. There was like 27 or 47 pages of talk, you know, discussing things. I why? Pardon me? Text form. Yeah, text form. And I thought, am I doing this? It's not fawning. Why am I, again, am I trying to convince them? I think it, like for me, was making sure whatever they were going to do or say, that it wasn't going to be bastardizing Indigenous culture or looking down at Indigenous women. them how white people are? Well that's why he's a washiichu. Yeah. Like and I just go no. See took a- But for their own gain, they're more coined in their company, more reputable. What is that? They're basically more- Yeah, I just like I said this fellow that that I met who was ⁓ a deserter ⁓ You know, I I there was something inside of me ⁓ The next morning that I just was off was was often there was a voice inside of me saying you only have you only have a few minutes to Say something to him because after that you won't exist in his eyes It was just that simple. So I called him And he said, what? And he explained to me, how did he put it? He says, I have a girlfriend. even before that, I already knew something wasn't right. ⁓ Because everything he was saying was a lie anyway. I just said, I love you. And he said, what, are you pregnant? This is like, how stupid? This is just, you don't get pregnant. Like, hello, male dominance. Like, how stupid do you think I am? I just walked away from him. But it was so, the sex was so good. And I walked away. And for years with promiscuity, I was looking for that same electrical spark, and I never found it. Now when Wachash to Wachate comes in, I felt that energy, because I think it was the same height, something was so similar with the fellow that I'd seen 55 years ago. I thought, so as I'm talking to Wachash to Wachate, here I am at home, I have to deal with my feelings from 55 years ago. In order to trust this, guy who's doing an interview, I have to deal with my emotions that I suppressed for 55 years. So for two years, three years, that's all I've been dealing with when I've had to talk to this guy. So on the 11th, okay, and again, there was some, he advocated to get this on TV. Nobody else, nobody else, and I thought, There was such a controversy too because they published something on Bucky St. Marie and it was so, you know, then to bring up Nathan Chasing Horse afterwards it was, it wasn't going to have the same impact and there was so many other things they could report on like all the money that Sutana spent in paying rent to Nathan Chasing Horse. Like for years paying rent to all, how many Sutana women who lived in Las Vegas that they paid for? I'm an elder. I lived in Utah. I have my green card. Not once did the Sutana nation ever pay for my rent. Nothing. And yet, because of this chief and because of his addiction to trying to get spiritual help, bastardizing like what did you say what name what is that word you put? was it? he she said faggis no no that heinous heinous because because it converted indigenous spirituality into a heinous act see this is the whole thing this was Sioux culture what the hell was sutana doing adopting Sioux culture What the hell were the Navajos, Apache, BC Indians ⁓ adopting Sioux culture? You have to be raised and born in it. When I say I'm Sioux, it's because I was born and raised in it. Yeah, but you are Sioux. I know. But that's the whole reason why there's a whole yes, exactly. that's I know that with my podcast, when I say that, especially with patriarchy, you've got to be born and raised in it. And the same with being Sue, you have to be born and raised in it. So here I am giving the alarm. Here's Nathan practicing a weepy and Sundance. I'm going, no, that is Sue. You have no business. Dabbling in this because you're not born and raised in it. You're not a collective. You're not holistic Don't do it. But did people listen? He took advantage of suit in a Why? Because, you know, at some point we were all ashamed to be Indigenous. No, I was raised in, I was raised Sioux. Not once. With all the genocide, my mother used to say, never give up. I used to say to her, Mom, your mom had it hard, never give up. I say, I say to people, you know what they did when they did the largest mass execution in Minnesota? for Sioux people, scattered all the seven tribes of the Sioux tribes. I said in South Dakota, they have a town that was created just by settlers to hunt Sioux women, pregnant Sioux women down. So they would kill them, gut them, take their babies out, take the baby's scalp and the woman's scalp to a town just like they're collecting bounty. They created a town in South Dakota just for that. I read. Yeah, and that's, so when I say I was raised Sioux, I've seen my grandmothers, Sioux grandmothers, matriarchy. You know, I know, like I said to my mom, you had it tough in residential school when you were taken away as five. I know how hard your grandmothers had it. know how my great grandmother was in Minnesota when the cavalry was chasing them. Even at very my hearted wounded knee, I said, you know, when they came in through Montana. They came in in waves. The first group came in. Second wave would come in. As they're coming, they saw these huge trees. Those white settlers grabbed those women, killed them, and tied them up with barbed wire with their babies. And their families came in after them because the cavalry was chasing them. They saw their relatives, their women, with the grasshoppers eating the baby's eyes while they're tied up. around with bob wire on trees in Montana. When I say I'm a Sioux woman and how tough it is that you cannot give up. No matter how hard it is, said, Mom, I know how easy my life is. I can advocate, I can have a voice, but sure as hell I'm going to tell the truth. Because of all those people and all those children that continue dying. The Sioux people are very poor, but we're still here. Like I know you're looking at me and you're thinking ⁓ about my older brother because I can feel it. ⁓ There's so much better now that you're raising my memory, stirring my memory. And yeah, we need to stop being inferior. To the white people, just as important as they are. So why are the Sioux Tinnah, why did they want to adopt Sioux? When my mother was considered an outsider, my grandmother who was a Sioux woman, and the Sioux, and the Stoney women who married into Sioux Tinnah, you know, I've grown up here, I know how they were towards me. I heard your brother tell you about that. So whatever the consequences of the aftermath of Nathan chasing horse, see the reality is that the girls that he took and he trafficked from here are the granddaughters of the serial rapist who raped me. It's like a circle. It's like you don't want to wish worse for anybody, which I said. Yes. Not that you don't want to now look at what's happened. Remember we talked about karma or it comes in a circle. A full circle. Or a full circle. Not right away, but perfect example. That's why it's important to like release. It's important to embrace and release because we don't know. We don't know how we've influenced people or how people have influenced us. So when I talk about Wachash to Ashtey, this white man, I try to tell him. you know, order for me to trust you. And I said to him on March 11th, I said, your sexual energy reminded me of a sexual encounter I had. I said, I just want to let you know that there's a reason why you are here and why this is so important. The work you're doing is, you might not see it, but I'm letting you know. whatever it took for me to be here in this space had to do with the sexual energy that you awakened in me because I'm able to release and let go of this experience I had 55 years ago. Because I'm feeling it. It's one thing for me to have taken it, gone to court and say to this guy, you hurt me. But for me to talk about healthy human sexuality, if I wasn't sexually attracted to wachash to washte, I wouldn't be heterosexual. Because it's just a thought. I'm not acting on it. You see, and that's what makes it healthy human sexuality. Whenever we're talking, he says, well, my partner. So on the 27th, he brought his partner. OK, and I'm going. Maybe he just didn't get it and that's okay because he's Wachasta Wachde who didn't even grow up in North America, okay? And however he sees and romanticizes the Wild West or whatever, you know, to me, have a white friend and she says, Marina, I come from the same European stock. He says, we're just, we're cold, we're detached. were very patriarchal, the women owned the man, the man obeys, even though it's all patriarchy. I said, yes. I said, Wachashtawa Shtet is so totally foreign to matriarchy. I said, for me, I've had indigenous men who didn't understand matriarchy, like especially with my sister and her partner. They had a guy who was renting from them. I'd come into her house. And I'd say, do this and this. And for this, guest would do it. Finally, he came to the point, says, I've had it with you. I'm not going to listen to you. I don't need to be ordered around. I thought, don't get it. I'm the matriarch. I'm the head of the family. This is my sister's house. Everything that my sister is doing and how she's supporting is because I'm helping her and her kids. If you can't show me respect, then you're not showing the respect to my sister and her family. See, that whole concept of matriarchy is lost in patriarchy. don't, you as long as they, the woman complies in patriarchy, as long as she gives the man sex, because men have to have sex. See, in patriarchy, a woman thinks that she, you know, like... Submission? Submission. Lower, look, keep your eyes down. Yeah. They don't understand like the... See, for me, when I say Sue women, we've been paying with our very lives, our own lives and the lives of our children for matriarchy. All that was taken was in a matriarchal system in the Americas. And you have Europeans trying to bring their patriarchy into our society. And we're still fighting it. Like it's been already there a long time ago. See, even, even to like, you know, the history. See, I like my audience to understand too. My guest has known me since she was a child. My guest has known me in terms of my sexuality. So explain to them how you see me as a. Would you even have comprehended anything about it? What is the question? I would say you're reserved. As long as I've known you. Oh, you're hard. But you're soft. But you're hard because things need to be done because things can get ugly. It's not on the movie shows. Your spirit is very strong. You just say it like it is. There ain't no coding. There ain't no... what you see because they all came from the Sunan ancestors. Yeah, but it's not like I... And I still, I have to go through grieving. know, I... I like even like I knew ⁓ going to the sentencing that I would lose any kind of connection with the survivors or even with what Chashti was saying. I knew that was it. Like this is it. It's like they're going to be dead to me because, know, there was some interaction, but it was final. And so that's why I gifted them. I gifted them things ⁓ like I embraced them before, but the sensing and knowing that everybody was going their own way, living their own life, was to release it by having the giveaway. Because when a person, like in Sioux Valley, ⁓ The most extreme case is when someone passed away, the woman gave everything in her house away, everything. Yeah, I remember you give everything when a person... Even, even to like you cut your hair because the hair that you have is a remembrance of like has the memory of the person you lost. So all those, all those things... ⁓ that, like even like with Roberta, what she represented, all those stories, that's gone now. They're released, it's grieving over that 20 years, or grieving over the fact that I had missed my dad and my uncle, that I had to create some sort of... ⁓ illusion or delusion over any man that I used men as a means to ⁓ be a catalyst to motivate me to do something rather than me doing it myself. and with and so releasing and what I've done is done it for myself. Because men are men. are women. And if a man is interested in you, he will come and he will let you know he's interested. A woman should never chase a man. 55 years ago, that man pursued me. He pursued me and that's the way life is. When, for, for the time when Nathan Chasing Horse was arrested, I tried to go to the jury. Remember we were planning to go down to Las Vegas. I spent the, in 2025, I bought airline ticket and hotel room and we were going to go. And then they canceled. So all that money was lost because I, didn't have any insurance to, you know, get refund, nothing. Then on March 11th, I went down. I saved up, ⁓ went down, and which has to stay like for two years like I said I had to deal with the emotions of some person he doesn't even know about. I sort of briefly spoke to him about this man. ⁓ Even like he says, you broke hearts. I'm just so loud back there. There was no broken hearts there, None. was just pure pleasure. You know, and even, even the. I, I, I don't I. He, I had contacted him. Every time there was an update on Shanae thing chasing us, I would text him. And so when, when I, when I knew there was going to be sentencing, he, he texted me, he says, I'm going to come with you. I thought, ⁓ white man, fork tongue, fork tongue. ⁓ Can't smoke that piece pipe. ⁓ But he showed up. As busy as he was, he came in on a Sunday. Stayed at Great Eagle. Next day he came in and he says, it's okay, I take pictures. And again, taking pictures was his, how'd you call a shield? You know, like instead of dealing, like instead of. That's his coping. Yes. And to me, whatever turns you on in dealing with whatever is happening, you know, go ahead. I obviously don't like my picture being taken, but hey, to have been on national TV, I thought, shit, my persona's been exposed. So he came in and his flight was delayed. ⁓ It was snowing too, so I was over at Great Eagle, went to the buffet, and this Lady April, ⁓ Indigenous woman, I introduced her. And I said, don't let anybody know I'm going to Las Vegas. Because like I said, I didn't tell anybody in my family, nothing. And I told them, I said, it's just the reality. said, it would be like me being promiscuous and going out for a one night stand. Not that he was going to be the one night stand, but just the fact that I didn't want nobody to know. was something, an activity that nobody knew, needed to know about. So we went down there and, let's see, so we flew down. And he paid for the Uber. I didn't even know about Ubers. ⁓ Hadn't been to Las Vegas in 15 years. Okay, so everything had changed too. And then he paid for the meals. I paid for my only airline ticket and my own hotel. ⁓ I had met Lynette, Sierra, Elsa, Thomas, Adrian, and he was recording me. I allowed him to do... Like a documentary? Yeah, no, he wasn't doing it for a documentary. It was just his own project. And I thought, fact that you are doing something when people like you wouldn't even come with me to Las Vegas... I was... I didn't make the time, I'm sorry. There I re-changed it. See, but the thing about it, even if you did come, it wouldn't have been the same experience because you're a woman. The problems that happened at Las Vegas was only because Wachasta Washteya was there with me. Because Melissa and her daughter were so antagonistic, so much lateral violence, so much unhealed energy. that they were projecting it onto the other victims, other survivors. And I had said to Wachashita Waste, I said, before I left on TikTok, Wren would defend her mother. And for me, I was trying to say, no, she came to my house. ⁓ I said anything that I tried to talk to her, she wouldn't listen. She was so intent that I am this person, my daughter is a holy woman, my daughter has purpose, like, you know, as if she was this born again Sioux woman who never grew up in a Sioux community. she's not Sioux at all. She was raised by white people. I said, you got to be born and raised in it. But her privilege. She just showed me disrespect. Right? 20 years ago, she showed me disrespect and I thought she would say do the same thing on March 11th. But what she did, even when the Souten of women came that evening, she was so disgusted that she didn't get all that attention with the news media that she went drinking and the Souten of girls said she's unstable. Now on the 11th, she tried making, she tried to banish. one of the women there going through the victim support person in the courthouse to banish her from ever attending the sentencing ever again because she accidentally took a picture of her in the background. Now, if Wachasta Wastey was taking photos, see, if he wasn't there, I'm pretty sure they would have physically somehow attacked me, tried to get me not to come to the sentencing. would have tried to block me from being there in the courtroom. Because that's what they did to this woman. Now on the 27th again, we went downstairs so he didn't understand, see what was happening on the third floor after we left. Again, this woman was making, her and her daughter were making trouble for the other survivors again, lateral violence. See, they were supporting each other. ⁓ The one woman loaned that woman money and she says, well, I'd like you to, if you can pay me back, because we might not see each other again. And she blew up. she was trying to get this other lady banished again. She blew up because afterwards, after everybody left Las Vegas, she was still putting on social media, putting the survivors down. Now, Wachashia Wschde doesn't know this, okay? Because he had his partner, he took off. I stayed, like when I went in on the 27th, I went in on the 26th, I just let him know, sent him my itinerary, didn't know anything about his travel arrangements, nothing, because I thought, well, I didn't even know I was ever going to see him after the 11th. So when I went in, I said, are we going to meet on Sunday? Because I wanted him to meet with the other victims or survivors. But he came in late, him and his partner. And I hadn't slept. I almost didn't go because I was getting the touch of the flu. He came in after 10, like about 9, 930. Lynette and her partner, Adrian, weren't coming in until 10. But I stayed, even though Wachasta-Washtey and his partner were still, they were tired. ⁓ I went and I met Lynette and Adrian and I stayed with them until 2 a.m. I was so tired. I was calling my friend in Montreal at 4 a.m. I've only had two hours sleep. I'm over exhausted. I said, you know, I'm just coming here, preparing for this. I'm exhausted. It's marina. You got to sleep. So I slept three more hours, got up and went with and I had my scooter, put the star blankets on my seat and I scooted 18 minutes away to this park, had them come, did a little ceremony, scooted all the way back, got ahold of a Joshua stay saying the court date has been moved up. We got to leave to the courthouse by one. So he showed up. And then the rest you can see on YouTube. And then afterwards we were coming out and Wachashita was stay left. I didn't see when he left, but I went back to the, with the rest of them and they said they were going to eat. So I met them downstairs and they asked Wachashita was stay to come and introduce his partner to them. So they came and then they left. So there was no physical closure with him or his partner. They just like that was it. So he didn't even know the things that these other people were doing to this other group of women, just lateral violence. But the reality of it is I know that if he was not there, I would have been a part of all that. They would have included me in that whole mix. See, he doesn't see the lateral violence that he, like, there was some sort of invisible protection. See, but at the same time too, that one woman, that one woman who ... talking about he can't get it he couldn't get it couldn't get but he couldn't get what he was seeing that it's lateral violence what's preventing him why he can't it's lateral violence is because he's a whole different the alien ancestry if you got it he could get it he couldn't get it Never saw it that way. Mm-hmm. I always say that. I would say their ancestors are those guys. Yeah. I was, that's my... Yeah, but there is a... ⁓ They're quick to take their education. They process a lot more than our people, but they will get it too, because they're... Well, yeah, because there's a... They That's their ancestor, those guys. Yeah. That's why he can't get to see the lateral... The lateral violence. Yes. Because it has some sort of spiritual attachment to it, which to them is totally different. Yes. I always believed that. Well, it makes sense because I've been around them my whole life. around them since forever. Yes. And me. You haven't. I haven't. And I already know that's why they are. So this is how Wachash to Wachate looks. Your take is him? Yeah. What do they call him? don't know. Rook? Rook? Rook? Rook? Rook? Rook? Yeah, so... They're... taking pictures. ⁓ ⁓ With the eyebrows. Yeah, it looks like him That would be his avatar. Wow. He looks like he was hungry for An omission. What do mean? Omission. Omission. Like a, like a... Exactly what you said, and everybody disbanded. He was there for a reason. Now he's gone. disbanded yet. I call it disbanded. Yeah, and that I anticipated that from March 11th. So I was prepared for April 27th. That's why it was such a hard like I couldn't sleep. That's that static. Yeah. Okay. So I'm just going to close off here and thank, I'll close off this podcast. So I just want to let everybody know, thank you for listening. I hope it was interesting to you as it has been for me to actually have live guests in my studio. So if you have any comments, let me know because again, I think I've been, I've been colonized most of my life. And I haven't seen with situ's or people like from other like European countries the way other indigenous people see the sea. Yeah. So I really appreciate the insight and it's all good medicine. I really truly believe it. So have a good day and hopefully we'll again, I will continue with my podcast.