Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Punk Rock Legacy

Transcript

Punk Rock Legacy · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why We Do what we Do. Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Anarchist host Abraham and I.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Am your Troublemaker host Shane.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcasts. We talk about the things
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that humans and non human animals do, and sometimes we
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: explore passions near and dear to our hearts. That is
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the history of social movements, which is what we're doing today.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so today we're talking about punk rock, something
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: that both of us have been steeped in for the
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: majority of our lives at this point in time.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: A lot of folks probably saw this really come to
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: the mainstream in the early nineties, but I think it's
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: just it's something that's a little bit older than that
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and a little bit richer than that. So what you
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: might think of is punk rock has come from some
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: pretty unique places, and some of the things that you
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: you think are not punk rock also have some pretty
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: unique roots in the punk rock world. So you'll see
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: that kind of is like ever present in your world.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Indeed, this is going to be an episode in which
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: we unpack the history of punk, where it came from,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: where it ended up. Where it's going, if anywhere, and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: share some you know, our own experiences with us a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: little bit, and just unpack the timeline and help get
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: some sort of understanding around this, because this was not
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: just a musical thing. This also was there was a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: lot of politics and sort of social activism wrapped up
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: inside of this, this sort of movement of punk and
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: punk rock. But before we talk about all of those things,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I would like to just say, if you are joining
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: us for the first time, welcome. We hope that you
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: enjoy what you hear in this episode today. But even
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: if punk is not really a thing you care to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: listen to, we're not playing any punk music in this
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: We're talking about sort of where it came from and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: how it got there and all of that. Yeah, and
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: then I think is interesting no matter what side of
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the musical spectrum you find yourself on. Anyway, if you're
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a returning listener, then welcome back. We hope that you
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: continue to find joy and the stuff that we're making
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: for you in our diy do it in our back
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: room with our own equipment and self produced type thing. Yeah, yep,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: that's all great. If you like to support us, one
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: thing you can do is go join us on Patreon
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and I'll talk more about the benefits you get from
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: doing that. You can also like subscribe, leave a rating
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and review, go tell some friends, go rave about it
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: standing on a soapbox in the middle of the street,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and we'll talk more about the ways that you can
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: help us at the end of this discussion. But before
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: we do that, I would like to wish everybody in
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: International Left Handers Day, South Pod Celebration.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Happy Day. Ethan my son is left handed. Oh cool.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It's National Prosecco Day for.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Left handed people. It is your World Calligraphy Day for
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: left handed people.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Also for left hand people, it is Feeding Pets of
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the Homeless Week.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Oh very nice. I feel like we've actually talked about that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have been doing the calendar things for
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: over a year now, so it's going to come up. Yeah,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: National Chef's Appreciation Week. Go the Bear, Go the Bear.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It's also National resurrect Romance Week. Mm hmmm, National Scrabble Week. Okay,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm on board.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Sure. National Smile Week.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: That's nice and safe and Sound week, which I wish
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: everybody could feel safe and sound.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, agreed, agreed, But we do more.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Than just talk about various holidays upon which our episodes
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: happen to land. We actually talk about psychology things. As
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I was talking about before, at the end of this discussion,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: we're going to give some recommendations, and to be fair
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: like in a way, a lot of this episode is recommendations, Yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: because we're going to be talking about so much music
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: that we have liked, some of which that we didn't
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: always like. But like there's a lot that we'll talk
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: about that we did like if you're joining us for
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: the first time. As I said, one thing we do
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that's unique is at the end of each discussion we'll
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: just share some things that or we're recommending to the world,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: usually unrelated to our topic, which will be the case
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I think this time, but a lot of what we
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: will be discussing will more or less sound like recommendations. Anyway. Yes,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm missing some frills to begin or
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: what should we jump in or do you have more
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: thanm I forgetting.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I think we can just jump in. I feel good.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I feel good all right.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Punk was as much a social political movement as it
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: was a musical movement, if not more, And it's worth
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: asking sort of how this came about what exactly is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it and where is it now? And do our best
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: to sort of unpack the history and the context that
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: gave rise to the social movement and the music that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: came along with it.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, so per usually we'd like to define our terms.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: So let's start with what the word punk means and
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: where it came from. So, according to the Oxford English Dictionary,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: the earliest record of the word punk spelled p u
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: n ckee was in a ballad called Simon the Old King,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: composed sometime before before fifteen seventy five. And here's the
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: line where it yeah, it's very old. The line goes, quote,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: so fellows, if you be drunk of frailty, it is
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: a sin as it is to keep a punk. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: that's the line from a song.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: That's essentially yeah, that's the line from the song. And
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: although that sounds like sort of nonsensical gibberish, essentially what
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: they were trying to do in this is warn men,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: specifically men, that drinking is a sin on par with
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: hiring a female prostitute, which is to say, where it
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: says keep a punk. A punk in this case was
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: used for or maybe slang for a female prostitute. And
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: so drinking was a sin on par with keeping a prostitute,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: was what was being said in that ballad. But yeah,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that's what that word punk meant at this point.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And Shakespeare went on to use the word punk
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: to describe female sex workers and prostitutes. And it's sixteen
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: oh four play Measure for Measure, in which the character
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Lucio attempts to explain another character, Rihanna's ambiguous denial that
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: she is quote neither made widow nor wife by declaring
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: she may be a punk end quote. And he also
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: used it in Allswell That Ends Well to describe a
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: trellop as a quote taffety punk.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: So it is an old word that has gone through
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: some iterations. By the late seventeenth century, it was being
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: used more to describe a young man kept for sex
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: by an older man, and it continued to develop, and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it was largely being used as derogatory slang. Every new
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: sort of shift in its meaning kind of kept that element.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: It was slang at some point to mean someone who
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: was simply homosexual. It sometimes meant petty criminal. It might
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: be used to call someone worthless, a coward, weakling, amateur, contemptible.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I saw somewhere a belligerent torp and an experienced youths
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: as other ways that punk may have been used as
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: sort of a slang term, and some of those are
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: very funny, funny, y yeah, silly words, I think.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: So, I think at this point in time, it is
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: used as a slur derogatory like it's designed to, like basically,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: you know, create a power differential between people, like it's
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: meant to it's meant to be confrontational. And I think
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: that's important because I think that at least that has stayed,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: that part of it has stayed, but it's kind of
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: been shifted a little bit. And you'll see what we
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: mean here. Yeah, So, rock journalist Dave Marsh and journalist
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: Lester Bangs described some nineteen sixties garage bands as quote punks,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: and magazines and articles about these self starter, simple groups
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: with few members, cheap clothing and cheap musical gear playing
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: street rock. So supposedly this comes from a magazine reference
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: for this magazine Freaks as well. But like what we
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: find is that like a lot of the bands that
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: they were talking about would go and they would pick
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: up an instrument from like a local pawn shop, or
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: they would like, you know, they would like do some
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: yard work to get like a really cheap bass guitar,
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: and they would just start playing in their garage and
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: start making music. Like the nineteen sixties was really big
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: for garage rock, right, And that's kind of where you
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: start to see this emerge a little bit so a
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: style of music.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And even before the term punk was applied to a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: style of music, that music had been evolving over decades. Yeah,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the earliest progenitors of music that would eventually become punk
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: can actually be traced all the way back to black
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: slaves working on American plantations in the eighteen hundreds and
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: sort of their the singing traditions they brought with them
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and developed.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for those of you who don't know
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: and have never heard of punk song in your life,
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: it comes from rock and roll, which comes from blues.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: And we'll kind of unpack that a little bit. So
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: slaves sing songs and developed staple melodies and in lyrics
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: that would eventually be used by black musicians who started
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: playing blues. Initially extremely unpopular, black musicians developed their own
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: unique style in blues and jazz, often playing second hand,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: cheap instruments, stuff that sounded like it kind of had
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: like I think it sounds like it's got a little
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: bit of like character and like, I don't know, there's
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: something really cool about like old rundown, like you know,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: cheap instruments that just have a really cool, interesting sound.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: And so you kind of have this like unique style
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: emerging from this space.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean you can think of there are
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: several elements here. One is like the traditions that they
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: brought with them, the traditions that they developed, the circumstances
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: that they found themselves, and the way that they could
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: connect with one another and help bring some joy to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: their own lives by playing music. There's also a huge
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: institutional i think gait being kept by oppressive entities that
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: would prevent them from necessarily learning music, and so they
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: kind of just had to do their own thing.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't have.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: People sort of guiding and telling them like what was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: supposed to be developed. They just made music. They kind
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: of invented a whole cloth. I mean, obviously music existed
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: before then, but like they weren't really able to train
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in it, so they kind of just did their own
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: stuff and they made, they forged their own path really impressive.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that they basically innovated new genres
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: just based on what was available to them was pretty impressive.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You know, they wrote their own melodies, they developed their
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: own styles, essentially innovated their own rules. And these are
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: people who they were very poor. They had no financial support.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: There weren't like record executives helping them out, and they
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: had little ways of spreading their music. So early on
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: they would simply set up and play a gig wherever
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: they could. They might be invited to play at a
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: place like a bar or speak easy later on, or
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: to play on a farm, or they would just you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: gather in little groups and they'd play music. And you
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: got people who were really good at what they did
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: in that space. But like they were not becoming like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: rock stars or anything. They were not becoming famous. They
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: were just getting by playing music and making a few
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: bucks here and there so they could keep getting by
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: playing music.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: And they were going on and like you know, influencing
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: all sorts of people. And then like you know, people
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: would steal their music. Like that's how Elvis got popular.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: So everybody is aware like Elvis Elvis really got famous
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: on the backs of black music. And I don't say
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: that lightly. He was literally taking songs from local black
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: musicians and covering their songs and then getting famous on
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: those songs. Jailhouse rock is not an Elvis original, you know,
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: So everybody remembers that. So so you could say that
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Elvis is kind of a poser and only posers make ads.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: All right, we're back shots fired.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Elvis, man, he's a piece of shit. Okay. So
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I have lots of stuff to say about this.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: This is this is a very just so everybody's aware,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: this is a very I'm very passionate about this particular topic.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: So I get I'm gonna get.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Real in the weeds about stuff.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: So just the head's up, well, you know, and it's
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: on brand for an episode about punk I think too, yeah,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: to sort of fight back against what might be considered
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: generally accepted. And I do think, like, yeah, right, I
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: think there is an element of this that has been
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: whitewashed enormously over history.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, So at this point in time, we're
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: talking about a lot of black musicians that are kind
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: of like the emergence of blues and like the emergence
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: of rock and roll and what you're starting.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: To find at this time.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: This is well before the sixties, is before rock and
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: roll starts to get really popular.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: We're like in like the early nineteen hundreds here, maybe
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen ten.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, twenties, thirties, forties, Like we're in a
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: space where like we're starting to electrify guitars. Like it's
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: just like at this time, right, so we started, you know,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: folks start incorporating electric guitars and experimenting with different sounds,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: different distortions, different amps, and eventually start to gain some
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: notoriety which allowed them to start recording and selling their
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: music for much more money. So you started getting musicians
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: into studios and creating music that people could hear in
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: a widespread way.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was actually very common to have music
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: simply transposed into sheet music in some sort so that
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: people would take home and like play it themselves.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those like proto record.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Companies essentially is they would release sheet music before those
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: recorded music. But at this point you do have like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: money as being made, and once the dollar dollar bills
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: get involved, should the sharks come a run in. So
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: that's when producers and other composers and executives started developing
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: more templated versions of these songs, and that set the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: groundwork for what would sort of become rock music. And
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: as you said, essentially what had been created, innovated, and
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: developed by black musicians, now that's starting to make money.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: You have white musicians who are sort of picking up
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: what they did and doing their own thing with it.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So the roots of blues and jazz can be
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: seen in many subsequent rock bands that show up, and
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: you know, the sixties and seventies, and and really I
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: think it's important to talk about this because the sixties
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: and seventies is really a focal point for kind of
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: the emergence of punk rock. You get like early blues
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: songs in like in bands, rock and roll, bands that
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: get really popular, like the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Buddy Guy,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Eric Clapton, Howl and Wolf Cream, the Birds. You get
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: all this stuff that starts to emerge, right, And in particular,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: the song Crossroads was frequently covered by artists and Crossroads
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Roads was not written by a white artist, right, So
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: you have this kind of like start to start, it
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: starts to emerge, and then rock and roll gets really
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: popular and then it starts getting a little bit how
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: do we say, glamy, and that's when you start seeing
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: people become disenfranchised with that. But there's other things that
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: are happening at the time too.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I meant to put you know, Robert Johnson was
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: a very independent black artist who wrote Crossroads is a Blue.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Incredible, incredible artist, and like was widely cited as influential
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: in the development of a lot of these bands.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we have this development of like blues and jazz
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that sort of set the stage for the creation of
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: rock and what would become things like glam rock and
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: stadium rock and all of that. But you have broadly speaking,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: this genre of rock music that eventually you get from
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: that this sort of subgenre of punk. And although punk
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: is often thought of as more sort of white culture music,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: one source I saw even went so far as to
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: call it, quote unquote predominantly Anglo American punk likely never
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: would have existed without the music innovations of black culture
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and black musicians. Like that's where rock music and punk
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: music came from.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's also important too to point
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: out that, like, as punk began to emerge, so did
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: hip hop, and so you had like I would say,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: similar movements in different kind of like pockets of different
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: cities where you started to see this kind of like
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: cultural movement exist the same way, take the same trajectory.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: So like hip hop and punk kind of emerge at
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the same time, and you just kind of found that,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say that it was like segregated,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: but like you did find that like punk found mostly
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: white folks, hip hop found mostly black folks in communities,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: and then you start to kind of like emerge and mix,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: and you actually found that like punk and hip hip
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: hop were they often collaborated, so like punks and hip
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: hop artists would actually play similar shows and share music
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: and stuff at the time, So there was kind of
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: this cool merging that kind of like parallel development of
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: these these two genres.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: So rock music became increasingly commercialized by the nineteen fifties
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: and the sixties and after the rebellious culture and anti
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: war sentiments developing in response to conflicts such as the
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Vietnam War and the seventies and all that, as well
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: as increased mobility of previously oppressed culture such as liberation
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: of black people with civil rights laws. You just found
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: like it was kind of like a general malaise and
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: unease and discontent in the world, and so you started
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: seeing like it was like really primed for like rebellion
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: at this point in time. I mean, you had protest movements,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: You had the Hippie movement, which was a failed movement
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: for folks. People were like love and peace is cool,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: and then they found out that it didn't work, and
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: then people were disenfranchised. Like the seventies were really gnarly
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: time for folks, and so it makes sense that like
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: this type of music would start to emerge.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Then a lot happened in the space of a couple decades.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: You had World War Two, Like coming out of the
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Depression era, you got into World War Two. There was
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the Hippie movements, Vietnam, Korean War, the War McCarthyism, the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Cold War. There was some very jingoistic anti communist sort
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of rhetoric growing on in the United States, and this
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: I think growing leaning toward fascism, particularly because there was
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of anti fascism during the World War Two,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: but then during the Cold War there's anti communism, which
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you know is conceptually the opposite direction politically, then you
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: get a lot of high level conservativism, and in addition,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: you had had this big cultural movement with these big
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: rock artists coming out, and sort of in addition, you
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: now also have people who have access to some electric
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: guitars and some cheap equipment, and so there's a lot
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: of confluence of events all coming together here, but a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: lot of people pushing back against the status quo, against
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: sort of traditional expectations of music and even behavior. And
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: also like there was a bit of a reaction to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the hippie movement and people sort of saying, like, we
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: are not on board with those people either, and so
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of splintering off into these sort of smaller
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and different directions that people were going, Yeah, I think it's.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Really important too. Like there was pushback against what seemed
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: like commercialized music, right like, and like you were finding
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: that specifically bands were going, ugh, like why is everybody
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: like like what is it?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Like? This is meaningless music?
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Like, so you had folks that were like, you've got
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: the Vietnam conflict going on right now and everything is terrible,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: and then you're singing about like, as an example, let's
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: talk about Aerosmith, like Aerosmith going out there and singing
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: about their the one song big ten inch.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Right like it's like I get my big ten inch.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: And so everybody's like, what what the what the hell
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: are we doing right now? Like there's so much going on,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: and there were protest movements and protest songs going out,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: like you had Woody Guthrie, which we'll talk about later.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: You had you know, you have Bob Dylan who was
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: doing some protest songs, like you had that emerging, but
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: those were not the popular songs. Like what you were
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: hearing on the radio was kiss and Sticks, and everybody
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: was like, what are we what is this?
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: What is happening? So what started to happen?
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: You know, as people were kind of pushing against this,
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: several groups formed their own independent bands. They would form
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: practice spaces out of garages and all those spaces that
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: we talked about, and these scenes started to develop in
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: underground music scenes in Chicago, New York, London and art
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: scenes well, you know you had.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Trade Warhol Detroit.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you had La specifically too, Like you had these
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: spaces that were like starting to emerge, and they were
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: happening a lot in art scenes, like so specifically New York.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about tvgb's and Maxis, Kansas City and
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: stuff like that, but you had these spaces. Andy Warhol's
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: factory was producing artists that were kind of pushing the
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: boundaries too.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Andy Warhol was actually I think the manager or producer
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: or something for one of the early compaigns.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, he created he created the Velvet Underground. He helped
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: create the Velvet Underground. By the way, we're writing songs.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: In the sixties, they were writing jingles like they were
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: a bunch of musicians who were writing jingles for commercials
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: and like studio musicians, and they got sick of doing
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: it and then became one of the most influential bands ever.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think that helps it sort of illustrate
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: sort of the culture and the development, like the history
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: of music as it began to lead up to this
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: reactive twist that happened, if you will. So it's like
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: music was going in a particular way. Cultural was in
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: a big upheaval, and it was you know, people were
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: figuring out things that they cared about and didn't care
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: about and pushing back against what was assumed to be
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the case. In a lot of spaces. I think, as
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we said, there was a lot more upward mobility of
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: people across the spectrum, such as people with disabilities, people
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of other races, black people in particular, and other groups
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: as well. You also had just people who were very
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: poor who were like finding the ability to sort of
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: have their voices be heard, and people who were in
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the sort of spectrum also like having a bit more
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: opportunity to be more open, more safe. Not totally, obviously,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: there was still a huge amount of oppression and laws
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: that held these people down in these spaces that would
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: prevent them from having access to even basic safety. Yeah,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and so it wasn't ubiquitous, but like the movement was growing.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And just for like additional context here, I think
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it's important, Like New York in the seventies was not
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: a safe city. There was lots of heroin, There were
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: lots of muggings, Like the Sex District was Times Square, like,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: not that there was any problem with that, but like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: ultimately New York was a pretty unsafe city at the time.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: So people were struggling and and people were discontent, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: people were unhappy, and you had these emerging art scenes
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: there La was a particularly dangerous city in the sixties
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: and seventies as well, between like the high rates of
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: police violence and a lot of the other things that
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: were going on in the civil unrest that was happening
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: in these places. So these were like spaces where you
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: had people that were just angry and there was no
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: outlet for it. And that's not to say that punks
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: are always angry, but it was one of those things
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: where it's like more cathartic music was necessary.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: At this time.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just an opportunity to have your voice, like be
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: able to speak out and and say, like, these are
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: things that we feel like are not fair, These are
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: things that we would like to have happened differently, these
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: are complaints that we have. And also, by the way
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: you yeah, yeah, it's like a sort of general sentiment
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: that was growing, which is kind of how we sometimes
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: feel about ads. All right, well we're back after what
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: was an ad break, although who knows whether any advertisers
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: wanted to put anything there after a reverence of them.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: So let's start getting into sort of the characteristics of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the sort of punk scene. What you might think of
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: is like the punk attitude yea is or I'm thinking
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of here, and it is intertwined with the music in
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a way. But it's worth I think understanding what were
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the sort of driving forces here, what were the motivations.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: For this discussion.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's important to point out there's like maybe
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: two different aspects of this, right there is the like
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: general like almost like a theology of punk, and then
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: there's like a style of punk, right like, so like
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: there's like a mindset, I think, in a value set
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: versus like a sound. So when it comes to the
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: sound itself, like generally speaking, and you'll see that there
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: are variations of this and exceptions to the rule, but
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: like generally speaking, punk rock is usually considered fast, usually
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: pretty simple, three to four chords, very short, usually two
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: minutes or less, usually using distortion, and deliberately not very melodic,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: except for like you'll kind of find some examples of
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: that too. The vocals are often yelling or screaming or
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: maybe shouting, performances that most contemporary audiences are like, you know,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: maybe like kind of people who listen to the radio
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: are not going to be particularly fond of yeah, and
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: they may have they may have a hard time calling
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: it singing, and but following from its blues roots. The
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: lyrics were often lamenting grievances or calling for political action
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: against established norms. The Reagan era was like really great
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: for punk rock music, Like like some of the best
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: political records came out during the Reagan era. And one
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: source actually described the music of punk as using guitar
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: as white noise, drums as texture, and vocals as hostile slogans,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: which is like not too not too far off. When
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: you hear some of the bands, you're like, oh yeah, yeah.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: If you listen to the Black Flag, You're like, yeah,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: that's that nails it.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, white noise, texture, hostile slogans. It's like, yeah, I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: can see that, Yeah, for sure. A lot of these spaces. So,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: as we said, the sort of nature and development of
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: this this DIY music scene, it developed in tandem with
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the behavior that sort of characterized it. So it was
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: making music that bucked traditional norms. You were not necessarily
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: going for catchy melodies, hooks or ballads. You were like short, fast,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: not intended to sound particularly easy. And these were doing
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: so without the oversight of producers and executives that were
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: dictating whether song should sound like and then their displaying
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: are It's a way to sort of display are as
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: flagrantly as possible, but the freedom available to do so,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: meaning that like, these were people who with this expanding
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: of freedoms that were happening under civil rights laws and afterward,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: and like coming out of the Cold War and the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: fact that the United States always boasted being in a
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: free country for whatever that means for some people, they
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: were using that to sort of continue to push back
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: for essentially arguing even more freedom was mostly what they wanted.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And this meant the attitude in punk was extreme independence,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: like extreme independence and being ostentatiously iconoclast. So we have
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: wearing clothing that stood out or torn very tight or
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: very loose fitting garments, wearing black or deliberately clashing colors,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: wearing chains, sporting tattoos and piercings, sometimes wearing garish, high
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: contrasting makeup, wearing spiked jewelry, styling hair to stand out,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: such as either shaved heads or mohawks, or shaving part
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of their heads or various styles. Long hair was very common,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: but also like just putting a lot of gel in
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: there and making it look very spiky or making it
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: look very outlandish. I mean, you can see how it
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: all sort of goes together and it is like, whatever
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: is the thing that people normally do, We're going to
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: do not that thing.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I had a mohawk one time and my hair, my
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: hair was like longer, so my mohawk was like an
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: foot and a half tall, which was like already I
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: was already six feet six foot tall, so like it
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: was like it looked really crazy. Yeah, it was good
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: time I had. You know, I've I've had piercings and
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: stuff like that too. I'm covered in tattoos for those
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: of you who can't see me, I'm covered in tattoos
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: But Abraham, I've got a question for you. What does
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: iconoclass mean.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: It's benominat since we had vocabulary in here.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So iconoclassed essentially is I want to always use
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it as an adjective, but it's technically a noun as
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: someone who essentially challenges or even like attacks traditions and
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: does so often in a way that's meant to sort
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: of speak out against those things or have some sort
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: of agenda that is anti I always think of iconoclass
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: as being mostly anti tradition. Sure, it is chewing things
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that are sort of generally assumed and practice just for
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: the sake of doing them, and an iconoclast will often say, like,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: we don't, like there should be a reason we don't
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: just do these things. Yeah, and also like just if
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: that's the thing we do, just because that's the way
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: we've always done it, Like, that's not a reason to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: do it that way. Yeah, that's how I think of iconoclasts.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So I hope I decided to.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Don't like it. Okay, Yeah, that feels good. That feels good.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: So so I mentioned at the top of this section
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: that there was like almost like a theology of or
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: like a value set, and that is the attitude that
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: comes along with punk rock.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: It's it's fiercely independent and values bucking traditional social values.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: It's fighting back against systems of oppression. It is welcoming
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: and including people from all walks of life. You'll hear
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of times punks will when they're interviewed, like
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: especially older punks will interview and they'll talk about how
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the punk rock scene and like in different cities was
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: to welcome the weirdos, the people that didn't fit in,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: the people that were down and out, the people that
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: didn't have a.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Place to go that was safe.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: The people that society didn't understand, right, you know, the
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: attitude was swearing openly in public spaces, which I catch
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: myself doing this a lot, and I'm like, well, that's
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: that's me.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Like I do.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I catch myself doing it often being deliberately rude or sarcastic.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I try not to be rude, but I definitely try
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: to be sarcastic, espousing anarchistic or atheist views, and in
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: many cases doing drugs or drinking publicly. Like this is
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: actually something that you find a lot in like early
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: punk rock, lots of drugs, lots of drinking, and lots
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: of discussion around how it was a real problem. So
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: like it wasn't like something that I think everybody widely
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: accepted as like a standard or norm of punk rock,
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: but like everybody just kind of went like do what
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: you want. You'll hear like Greg Graffin from Bad Religion
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: talk about this and how he never really did all
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: this stuff, but it happened around them so much that
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: it was like you could see it becoming a problem,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: and yeah, that's why you got people burn out really quickly.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And so yeah, It wasn't that you had
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to do that to be punk, but that was something
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: that you might find in sort of the punk scene.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you said, like there was a huge
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: amount of just accepting and allowing people to do whatever
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: they wanted to do again within reason. Yeah, and because
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: it was such a sort of welcoming sort of community.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: And actually to that point, many people in the sort
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: of the punk crowds formed these sort of fairly tight
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: knit communities, not always but like they did happen and
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: had almost a familial and in some cases gang like
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: protection of one another. Accurate, although they did protect one another,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: they also were not above fighting each other. They fought constantly.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Often there were fist fights going on. But that being said,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like this is a group if you're thinking of sort
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of groups that are have a very specific well not
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: very specific, but they do have an agenda. They are
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: deliberately organ around some set of principles I think, and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: you're thinking of gangs, and gangs notoriously are extremely violent.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: These groups of punks were mostly not violent. You might
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: get some shoplifting, there was some things that they would
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: do that was like gorilla radio zines, bootlegging things, knockoff
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: versions of brands and entertainment and that sort of thing.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: But they really were not particularly violent groups. They didn't
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: usually try to control territory. They weren't trying to run
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: any kind of syndicated criminal enterprises. They just wanted to
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: live independently from traditional societal expectations, and that meant sort
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: of getting by your own muster, if you will, which
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: often meant that, as we said, like they were very
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: poor a lot of the time, and it meant that
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: they sort of were living off of scraps and kind
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: of okay with doing that. But like I said, like,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: although there were some aspects of this that were more violent,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: particularly in Los Angeles, so we'll probably talk more about that,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: most people in the punk scene were not particularly violent principle.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think a really good way to look
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: at this is that most punks were never violent, but
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: they were confrontational, so like they were trying to like
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: get a rise out of like you know, sometimes you'll
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: hear punks call like people who are not punks, like
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Normis or citizens or civilians like you know, you're like
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: kind of ridiculous things like that, But they were never
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: like a lot of times what you found were that
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: punks were violent in response to violence. So in lat Yeah,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: so violence happened to them a lot. So as a result,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: they had to oftentimes protect themselves. So you would find
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: like early punks would carry switch blades and brass knuckles
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: because they were often the the victims of attacks from
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: you know, lots of different people, and so you find that.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's really really really important because especially in
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: the eighties, and we were kind of talking about this
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: before the show. In the eighties, a lot of times
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: in movies when you see punks, they were the violent ones, yeah,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: And that was not the case. What was often happening
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: was a group of punks we've targeted by another group,
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: and then they would have to defend themselves. And it's
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: unfortunate because there were people. People died, and people were hurt,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: and people were injured pretty severely, but it was never
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: most often it was a response to either a systemic
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: issue like police violence, landlords kicking them out of homes,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: like lots of different things like that that were like
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: really systemic issues, not necessarily like for the jollys of
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: hurting people.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'd say, like there were a lot of
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: times that they were deliberately targeted by the police and
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: they fought back. I mean not unlike the Black Panthers actually, yeah,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to go back a couple of decades, but like they
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: fought back, and so you had that, you had the punks,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and like the neo Nazis would fight a lot of times.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: They still do and they still do. Yeah.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So like, yeah, there's the punks would would be targeted
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: by violence, and they would not just a lot. They
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: weren't the piece nick hippies of the generation before. You know,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: these were people who, like they saw it as a survival,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: needed them to fight back, and they were willing to
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: do that. So they were not often the instigators, but
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: they would rally around one another and around certain causes
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and did have to defend themselves against violence from outside groups,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: particularly well organized groups who could call them the perpetrators,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: like the police, particularly in LA but in other places
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it happened all the time. Like I mean, you
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: would find that, you know, like a group of punks
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: would be hanging out, they'd be sharing stories, they'd be
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: in a squat somewhere, and then some marketer would show
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: up with ads and they would have to fight them
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: out of their homes, all.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Right, kick those ads out of here. Yeah, I guess
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: we'd fighted them in, but then we're kicking them out.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: That's true. We did'vite them in and kick them out.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I guess that's a problem.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: All right, let's start to get into sort of the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: timeline of the bands that came along that sort of
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: gave rise to punk here. So the timeline is a
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: little difficult to pin down because there were so many
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: home brew bands that were starting and maybe even playing
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: a shit or two, but then leaving little or no
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: trace of what they were doing, no permanent records. But
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: like in the meantime they have They may have like
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: been this random group of three high school kids who
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: got a hold of some cheap pond music equipment, threw
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: together a couple of crazy songs, played a couple of shows,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and then one kid at that show went on to
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: go form like an actual rock band. Yeah, Like those
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: kind of things happened, and so you had a lot
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: of these flash in the pan groups that well, no
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: one will ever remember that they existed, but they may
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: have had some kind of impact, and they may have
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: been around long enough to have made a contribution, but
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: without any like lasting record of what they did. But
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that being said, we'll do our best to unpack the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: ones that we do have record of the ones that
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: did leave an imprint where we can sort of speak
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: to how punk grew and developed.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to go back real quick to you
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: brought up zines and like some of the stuff like that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I think there's something that's interesting that people don't realize
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: it's and it's that punks, especially in certain cities, are
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: some of the best historians for like underground music. So
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: like there are a lot of records out there if
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: you know who to ask and what to look for.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Zines are one of the most valuable types of like
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: historical records that punks have. And there's a really great
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: collection of zines that you can get called Copy and Paste.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: It comes in a hardcover copy and it like shows
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: you all the different zines that existed in punk and hardcore,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: or at least.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Quite a few of them.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Ye.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a really cool collection.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: And there's also the Punk Rock Museum too that does
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: that now in Vegas. But there's like I think it's
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: really important to though that like punks are really fascinated
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: with their history, especially their local history, and they're pretty
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: decent historians when it comes to that if you're looking
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: for like the local stuff.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they had to. They had little ways
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of sort of communicating with each other, so they had
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: their own just like everything else gorilla DIY marketing, Yeah,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that they did, and zines were one way to do that,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: and that meant that that was where history was getting
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: documented because there was an element of like participation as
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: being a very important activity a lot of punks and
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: so yeah, like being aware of the music that was
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: on the scene and what was going on with those
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: bands and the people who were in the scene, and
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: like who was doing what and holding each other accountable
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, like people who would sell out
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: or do something else like that would then the community
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: need to know about that and would shun that person,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah when if that happens.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think zines are also too, Like
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: you might be familiar with that term. They're used a
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: lot in activism spaces, so like you'll find that like
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: punk and activism also hold hands quite a bit. So
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: it makes sense that like some of the underground DIY
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: gorilla stuff is coming from activism spaces and organizer spaces.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: All right, so let's talk about these bands.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: So James Newell Osterberg Junior, the most punk name that
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: I've ever heard in my life, right, was the front
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: man for what is arguably the first modern punk band,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Initially billed as the Psychedelic Stooges when they debuted in
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Detroit in nineteen sixty seven. They were a response to
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: all the rock bands that were out there that were
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: glam rock, and they weren't really doing anything that felt
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: like like a lot of the prog rock bands too.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: They were kind of over that. They wanted to do
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: something a little bit more raw, and so James Newell
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: Osterberg Jr. Started using the stage name Iggy Pop and
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: then later changed the band name to Iggy and the Stooges.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: That band specifically was made famous in part by Iggy's
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: somewhat contorted stage appearance due to him having one leg
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: shorter than the other, scoliosis, him not wearing a shirt, yeah,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: and a bad hip as well, and he didn't wear
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: a shirt on stage. He also would shave his eyebrows
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: every now and again, and then didn't realize that was
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: a bad idea because eyebrows keep fluids out of your eyes.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: So there's a couple of pictures of him without eyebrows.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: That's kind of unsettling. But not only did he have
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: an arresting appearance, but he had a wildly over the
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: top stage antic like he would like stick his microphone
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: in a blender and call it the oster, the oscter
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: Sizer or.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Something like that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: Like he had like he wanted to invent him like
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: a musical instrument and just put his microphone in a blender.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: He would also smear random foods on his bear chest,
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: like I think they went on live TV one time
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: and he smeared himself with peanut and then would stage dive.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: He would expose as genitals.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: He would even cut himself open so he's bleeding on stage,
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: would break bottles and like slice up his chest really bad,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: just because he was like he would say he's into
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: the music, and it was for the show, but it
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: was a lot of shock and awe.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: But they got them a lot of notoriety, it did.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you've ever heard the Stooges, that is
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: that is them.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Yep, so earlier when in.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: The nineteen sixties, Now, another candidate for possibly the first
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: punk band was the Motor City Five, also just called
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: MC five. They emerged right out of the garage rock scene,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: playing shows as far back as nineteen sixty three in
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Lincoln Park, Michigan, and they had a sound closer to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: what you might think of as punk relative to like
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: as you might compare them to Iggying theo Stooges, The
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: MC five sounded more like punk in my mind, at
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: least like I went through and listened to some of
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: these in preparation for this, and I definitely heard what
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: sounded more like punk from MC five than I did
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: from the Stooges, at least musically, and you can really
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: hear the blues influence in the MC five music. Their
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: album Back in the USA reached one point thirty seven
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: in US charts, which does seem very low, but also
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: to me seems really high from what you might expect from.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: A garage band at the time.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and definitely, at this time at least portended a
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: growing movement. So for my money, I think more of
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: MC five as being probably the first to sort of
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: really kick off punk both. I think every titleine and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the style yeah, very proto punk, but I could also
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: like see and I understand the case being made for
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the Stooges as well.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so while this is all going on in New York,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: you've got this emerging art scene that's kind of turning
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: into a cool thing. And then there is a club
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: called the Country Bluegrass and Blues Music Club or CBGB's,
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: and this is where actually many of these independent proto
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: punk bands and a lot of the bands that we're
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: going to talk about as we go, and full on
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: punk groups that started playing they started gaining success there.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: This was like the prestigious This was the place you
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: wanted to play. Yeah, they weren't trying to introduce new
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: styles of music to the world. This place was a
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: dingy whole. It was disgusting, but it was a place
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: where bands could get their break, and bands such as
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: the Ramones did that and actually, like when they started
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: playing at CBGB's, they really broke. And you'll see a
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: bunch of other bands that we're gonna mention too that
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: started playing at CBGB's because it was it was a
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: big deal. It was like a launch pad for so
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: many punk bands that really were quite influential.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know CBGB wasn't out to
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: try and do this, but they happened to be sort
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: of the spot that just turned into that. Yeah, for
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: better or for worse, but you know that is what happened,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: at least.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Probably for worse because that place was disgusting. It was
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: so gross.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Fair and some might further argue that the New York
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: City four piece the Ramones. So if you hadn't heard
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: of the Stooges or CBGB or MC five, you've likely
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: heard of the Ramones, and understandably.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Gabba Gabba Hey, they were the first punk band.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Many argue that they're the first punk band because they
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: embodied all of the most critical features of style, sound,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: and attitude of punk at the time. The Stooges you
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: had more of the attitude. MC five you had more
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: of the sound. Ramones you get it all, and they
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: kind of taught would be rockers and like future punk
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: musicians and people in the scene of punk that one,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: you don't need to be attractive, which fair shots at
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the remotes. Two, you can play very simple music and
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: be successful there. You only need two or three chords
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and aggressive and endurance downward strokes that you can do
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: for a show. And that you can be successful writing
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: very simple music that way. And three, you kind of
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: don't have to play the part of a rock star
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: to b one.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Like they just kind of did their own thing.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: They were loud, opinionated, free spirited performers who spent little
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: time thinking or worrying about the music.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Part of the music.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: That's that's actually very accurate. Johnny Ramon and the guitar
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: player treated it like a job. He was like, like
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: you would talk about his guitar. He's like, it's like
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: kind of like how a carpenter uses a hammer. He
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: doesn't train, he just does it, and that's how you play.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: He's like you talked about here, he never practiced and
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: when you hear it, you're like, okay, yeah, I could
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: see that.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Oh and then yeah, as you said, they everyone in
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the band adopted Ramone as the sort of a pseudonym
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: last name, So all the members of the band had
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Ramone as the last name. That wasn't actually their last name,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: but that was what they took on for their yeah
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: of being on stage personas if you will.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah they are. Their history is very interesting.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: I recommend everybody spend a little bit of time reading
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: about them because they've got a tumultuous history over the years.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Which makes a lot of sense. Again, attitude of punk,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: it was all there, So you could certainly make the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: case that they were the first ones if you like,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you need all those criteria to be considered punk. But yeah,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: we're tracing the history here, so.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I would make the argument that the Ramones were the
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: first true punk band. Okay, like they really kind of
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: kicked it off. And and like you'll hear too that
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: people will talk about the Ramones being like the Johnny
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: Apple seeds of punk rock, like whatever. They would tour,
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: a bunch of like a burst of punk bands would
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: start showing up in those cities because they showed every
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: hey you can actually just like you can go literally
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: steal a guitar and learn how to play five songs
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: in a day if you really, if you really wanted to. Yeah,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: it's kind of a wild, kind of a wild thing.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: And I forgot to say they started in nineteen seventy four,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: as we're at in the timeline for this.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So in the UK, because we mentioned
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: London during the sixties and seventies, there's a lot of unemployment.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: Many people were frustrated with the state of the world.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, you're talking about reconstruction era in England, because
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: you're talking about right after World War Two. Most of
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: England was bombed to oblivion, so there's a lot of
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: things happening there. But one of the earliest and first
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: punk bands to really embrace the punk idealism specifically there
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: that what they did was they borrowed money from friends
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: and family to start their own record label to self
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: record and publish their own record, which is very diy.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Very a very punk rock way to go about this.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: It was a lesser known band at the time but
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: became really influential was the Buzzcocks out of Manchester in
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: the UK. They could only afford a limited run of
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: a thousand copies of their four track EP, Spiral Scratch, which,
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: true to punk form, also included a set of instructions
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: for how to make your own independent album.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Which rules.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and punks loved democratizing previously elite guarded activities.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So like there used.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: To be a book and a manual and lazine and
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: a website called Book your Own Life, and it was
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: like instructions on how to book your tour around the
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: United States and other places. So like punks love to
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: do this. They're like, hey, you want to know how
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: to do this, Here you go, here's here's the instructions.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Go do it yourself. I promise you it's this easy.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot of like steel information then
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: give it away for free is a very punk thing
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: to do. Very Robin Hood, Yeah, very Robinhood. Sort of
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: feeling absolutely you know a Robinhood was not a big
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: fan of ads though, No, he was not, all right,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: coming back, probably I should have said the Buzzcocks were
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: not a fan of ads, which is almost certainly true.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Another really important band in punk history is London's The Clash, argue.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Probably the most important punk band. If the Ramones were
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: the first punk band, the Clash were the most important.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Very fair so. They formed in nineteen seventy six. They
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: were enormously popular or eventually got there, particularly for like
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: a straight up punk band like this is just a
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: punk band. Their album Combat Rock reached all the way
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: to number two on UK music charts and went double
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: platinum in the United States, which again for a punk band,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: is completely unheard of. Yeah, even though like there was
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: some really successful punk going on at the time. They
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: really did this, and their most famous song, Rock the Kasba,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: became a globally listened to song, earning them and during
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: fame and legacy. I'm on punks and non punk listeners alike.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, Rock the Kasba, you got should
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: I stay or should I go? I fought the law,
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: but the law one train in Vain. Like, They're all
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: songs that you have for sure heard. Same thing with
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: the Ramones, Right, You've heard Blitz Creek Bop, You've heard
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: I Want to Be Sedated. You've probably heard Pets Seminary.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Like you've heard these and like not even realize these
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: were like punk bands on the radio, right, Yeah, yeah,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: so it's pretty cool, all right. So with all that
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: being said, there are far too many to list.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: We were.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Actually that's part of the reason why I took us
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: so long to start recording today is because we kept
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: going over bands that we just love. So we're gonna
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: give you a list of bands to check out and
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: just a little bit of insight about these other bands
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: that were also incredibly influential. Earlier, you heard me mention
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Woody Guthrie and the reason that we bring up Wody
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Guthrie is because he was a folk artist. He was
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: like a country folk artist, like kind of known for
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: outlaw country. Yeah, and some people consider him to be
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: the first punk as a Depression era of folk singer
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: who wrote many protest songs and anti fascist songs. He's
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: the guy that if you ever see the picture of
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: somebody with a guitar that says this machine kills fascists,
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: that's Woody Guthrie. He had it like like taped on
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: his guitar, so whenever he flipped his acoustic guitar over,
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: his acoustic guitar said, this machine kills fascist that's awesome.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: He was basically writing protest songs, but he I mean,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: because he was so early on in doing folk music.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: They were very melodic and very catchy, and I think,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: like many other protest songs that have been written, or
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: songs that are like almost overtly about sex or drugs,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of people I think didn't necessarily always notice
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that's what he was doing. But he was doing a
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: really good job essentially just writing using music to protest
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and do his own form of activism, which was awesome.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: So definitely you appreciate that from him for sure. You
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: have The Velvet Underground, who started in New York in
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four famously with Lou Reed as the lead.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: They were considered one of the most important contributions to
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: rock music because they were doing a lot of weird,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: experimental stuff. They had very confrontational lyrics, and they were
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: definitively described as having influenced development of indie rock and
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: punk music that was later.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: To come yep. Absolutely.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: There's also Suicide, which was a simple rock duo from
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy. It was basically the two guys. There's a
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: keyboard and drum machine, and they use simple electronic instruments,
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: which was kind of like a new emerging thing at
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: a time, and they use these kind of proto drum
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: machines and also sometimes referenced they are references. Is one
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: of the earlies punk bands because they were doing something
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: extremely different than some of the other like kind of
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: like guitar and drum music at the time.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the New York Dolls, this is a nineteen seventy
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: one New York punk band. They only lasted about five years,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: but they kind of went the opposite direction to some
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: of these others, and they really embraced glam rock, and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: they specifically sported these very androgynous appearances. They would wear
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: sometimes effeminate clothes or wear makeup, lots of makeup, lots
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: of makeup. They were really trying to blend and flagrantly
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: violate sort of gender norm appearances. And they were doing
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: this in like the early seventies here, so they were
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: pretty early on people who were taking that as their method.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: But those are the New York Dolls.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, There's Television another New York City staple. They were
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: a band founded in nineteen seventy three. They were at
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: CBGB's a lot, and they were considered influential in the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: development of alternative rock and punk music.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Like you could probably see them. You hear a lot of.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Indie influences and like math rock influences from television. So
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: if you like bands like Minus the Bear or like
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: early emo, like you're this is, television is the thing
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Blondie was a y New York rock band in nineteen
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: seventy four. They're one of the few to incorporate elements
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: of punk and also have like a female lead vocalist.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: It was probably more common in like punk music to
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: have female members than in most contemporary rock otherwise, like
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: the big glam rock and stadium rock and all of that,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: but even still, having female members of the band was
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: not super common, although it was more so in punk.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: But this is one of the first ones and one
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: of the few to have a female not only a
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: band member, but the lead member of the band.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, And although not particularly punk musically, they're definitely a
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: band that's punk in attitude. We got the Talking Heads.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: They were a New York band that formed in nineteen
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: seventy five. They also had several female musicians and were
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: inspirational for many punk bands that followed. They were also
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: a CBGB's staple, just like Blondie was, so every band
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: that we've mentioned so far from New York often played
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: at CBG.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Very fair.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: We have this band called The Damned This is So Good,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: a nineteen seventy six punk rock band and also described
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: as psychedelic rock and goth rock. This is kind of
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: a response to the glam rock trend that had been developing.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of highly produced, structured melodic songs
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: of popular rock bands in the era, and they're sort
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: of saying we're going to do not that we're gonna
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: be sort of in your face loud, raw and yeah,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: sort of their own style of things that was sort
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: of anti flashiness, if you will.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: They were goofballs to such a degree that's ridiculous. Their
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: drummer's name was Rat Scabies is Rat Scabies, and their
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: guitar players Captain Sensible. There was a story where they
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: the Clash were recording a song at a studio and
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: the damns were kind of hanging out and like really
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: messing them up, And there was a story where Captain
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Sensible is outside playing the song that Joe drummer can't
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: play on guitar and like laughing while he's playing the
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: guitar that Joe drummer can't play through the guitar through
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: the window and just would like they were like perpetually
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: frustrating for people, a lot of fun and they're still
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: playing so you can still see them, which is cool.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Nice. Black Flag, probably.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: The first hardcore band and one of the most important
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: hardcore bands, started in nineteen seventy six in California and
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: started as a much heavier approach to punk and punk rock.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: They were very confrontational, singing about depression, and they were
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: singing about some pretty dark things as well. They were
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: probably the foundation for what would become modern metal and hardcore. Besides,
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: like Black Sabbath, right, Black Sabbath is probably like, you know,
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: if it wasn't for Black Sabbath and Death, you wouldn't
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: have metal, Black Flag, you wouldn't have any hardcore bands.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Black Flag, And there's a lot to say
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: about Black Flag. They were just a whirlwind of chaos
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: through out everything they ever did. Yeah, could really dig into.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: But that's what we'll leave it there for now, because,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: as I said, there's just too much to list here. Yeah,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: people will want to include the sex Pistols, but most
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I think that most real punks and fans of punk
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: don't really even consider the sex Pistols a punk band. Yeah,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Johnny Rotten is like the singer of the sex Pistols
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: or was. It's turned out to be a big douchey,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: douchebag of Doucheville. Yeah, and then just seems like a
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: deep person that no one should like or talk to. Yeah,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: so yeah, let's make fun of the sex Pistols for
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: like five seconds.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, they're the worst. They're they're the boy bands
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: of punk rock. They were put together by a clothing
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: store in England to have an image. They were not
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: at all a punk band, I mean, and it's really
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: clear with Johnny Rotten and where he's gone. Sid Vicious
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: was the bass player, and he went on to sing
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: a Nancy Siacht Sinatra song and record a cover and
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: it was really bad. He tried to break away and
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: do his own thing. He eventually passed away. But my
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: favorite story of Sid Vicious is Freddie Mercury calling him
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Simon Ferocious, like refusing to call him Sid Vicious, calling
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: him Simon Ferocious and just like just upsetting him so much.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: That's very fun.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, again, people didn't like punks. That nobody was
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: nobody was a fan of the punks, so.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: Essentially, it seems like the sex Pistols were like a
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: marketing ploy more so than they were a punk band.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: A San Francisco punk band in nineteen seventy eight, The
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Dead Kennedy's had a.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: Short great name for a punk band, by the way.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: They Yeah, they were a foundational contribution of punk music.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: They really embraced a style of just satirizing public figures
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and politics to make their points. Also kind of goofballs
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: but like really loved making fun of people they didn't like.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Was kind of what they did, honestly. Like this idea
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: of Freddie Mercury calling him Simon Ferocious is something I
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: would definitely expect the Dead Kennedys to do.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, it was no, no, no, it's Freddy Mercury
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: from Queen.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just saying that, like I would
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: expect them to do something similar to that. Oh okay, yea, yeah,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the idea of like poking fun at people by almost
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: like embracing their name but like doing a twist on it. Yeah,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: although I think they were more critical, more overtly critical
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: than that. But yeah, they were a bunch of goofballs
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: that really set the stage for a later punk as well.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And like I think if you hear them, you you're like, yep,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: that is punk music for sure.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: And their singer Jello Biafra actually ran for an elected
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: position in San Francisco and almost won. Wow, Like yeah,
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: and he did it as a joke and like almost
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: one because that's like that's you know that sounds like
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: that's m yeah, all right. My favorite punk band, Bad Religion,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: was formed in nineteen eighty in La California, and they
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: could have their own episode because they were such a
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: unique kind of like they were such a powerful band
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: and like a movement there. But while portraying a very
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: punk musical style, they sound like a punk band, they
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: also managed to include more complex and interesting musical writing
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: as well as complex three part vocal harmonies which is
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: like totally shaped up no effects as well. They spanned
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: record labels from the early low budget record label all
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: the way up to major label Atlantic Records in the
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: early nineties, and they are one of the more progressive
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: and thoughtful lyricists like lyrics, Like they put together a
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: lot of really cool philosophical and political lyrics. And that's
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: partly because Bret Gerrowitz, who is the guitar player and
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: co writer and owner of Epitaphrecks, is like more of
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: a philosopher, if you will. And then Greg Graffin is
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: a doctor. He the singer, and he's a songwriter as well,
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: and he's got his doctorate in I believe evolutionary biology. Wow,
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: So he's just somebody who's like just brilliant. They're both
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: brilliant and so like I actually thank doctor Greg Graffin
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: in my dissertation that's amazing for just being like a
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: huge influence for me. So because yeah, bad religion incredible.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: So go listen to all the records because all of
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: them are good.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love to talk more about them because
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: just there's so much to say, and they were so important,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: and they were like so musically good, like compared to
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: like most other punk that was out there. Like most punk,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: it wasn't really about necessarily like the musicianship. It was
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: about the message. It was about the attitude, it was
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: about the show. It was about the like participating in
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the group. They were like good musicians, like yeah, that
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: kind of stood out, I think among the other things.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: But they also were punk, like they were punks, yea,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: they just happened to also be good at their instruments.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, now the Professors, it's great.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: The Butthole Surfers if you haven't heard that name before, Yes,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: that was a real band. They're out of San Antonio
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: in Texas. They were a punk band that formed in
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one and they became famous for performing these
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: chaotic live shows. They'd also bring a lot of comedy,
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: particularly dark and like black comedy to their live shows.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: That was one of the things that sort of got
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: them a lot of notoriety, aside from the fact that
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: they were called the Butthole Surfers and were in Texas. Yeah,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: but yeah, they're really interesting punk bands that sort of
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: developed along here in the early eighties.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, most definitely. There's also Uniform Choice, which was an
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Orange County hardcore band and they formed in nineteen eighty two,
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: and they were really like they were notable for being
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: one of the first bands to start making their own
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: merch like they would like it was very DIY like.
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: They would make their own merch, sell it out of
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: the trunk of their cars, and that's how they would
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: pay for their tours and stuff. So they were like
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: one of the first instant really bring that to the
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: world of like DIY punk basement shows, where bands weren't
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: really doing that at the time.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then and finally, we have no FX. For
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: people who listen to punk. That's a name that's going
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: to be very familiar for people outside of punk, probably not,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: but it's spell Lega Sounds.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: No FX.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Those are the letters four letters, which a four letter
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: word is very much I think something that they did
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: on purpose.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: They're an iconic LA band.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: They formed in nineteen eighty three, helmed by frontman Michael Burkette,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: more commonly known as Fat Mic. He started a record label,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Fat Records spelled wr e ck rec and then c
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: h o r DS Chords, and that allowed them to
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: essentially pay for press promote music of bands that they liked,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: and they apparently Fat Records has sold over eight million
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: records spanning over three hundred different artists since their formation.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: So they have been prolific and their activities getting all
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: kinds of music out there no effects, consistently and continuously
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: embraced irreverence to the point of like being offensive and
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: even somewhat hostile. Yeah, And the thank you notes on
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: one of their albums, which is called Punk and Drublic,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: they specifically thank people quote for the free suckers, we
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: hawked it all for crack end quote yep.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: If that has no effects in a nutshell, I don't
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: know what is. Yeah.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: And this is a really good example of what I
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: would describe as like, guitar is white noise, drums are texture,
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Vocals are hostile slogans. That is a very good description
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of a lot of what they were doing. Super fun.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: I actually loved No Effects. I listened to and had
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: a ton of their albums. They just recently, like I think,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: played their last show in like the last couple of years.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: They were a band for like forty years, like a
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: long time.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: So anyway, definitely worth checking out. I think if you're
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: interested in checking out the history of punk, No Effects
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: should be on that list somewhere.
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And just so so everybody's aware, I'm going to
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: make a playlist that's going to go with the show.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: So it'll be in the show notes and it'll be
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: all these bands that we're talking about and then some
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: and that way you can get kind of a nice
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: taste of what we're talking about here.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Well, while you ignore these capitalist ads, you can go
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: check out No Effects or some of these other punk
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: bands and we'll be right back.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Please do.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: All right, there's so many more things that we could
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: talk about with these, but let's just like we're just
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: gonna list some bands.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna say anything about them, We're just gonna
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: list them. These kind of go and order from when
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: they came out to like oldest and most recent, not completely,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: but they're sort of generally in that order. So here
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: are here's just a list of other sort of punk
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: bands we wanted to shout out that happened though we're
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: sort of along the way.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: So you got Susie and the Banshees, Joy Division, Nirvana,
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: Green Day, The Offspring, the Germs, an X.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I've got Minor Threat, Fugazi, the Misfits, Circle Jerks, the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Dead Milkmen, Bad Brains Descendants, and the Adverts.
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm, you've got Pennywise, Suicide Machines, Alkaline Trio, Rise
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: Against Me.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: That was definitely where my listening was taking, isn't that.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah. I started in that yep.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: Although I also had in mind the next one, No
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: use for a Name, Strung Out lag Wagon, Good Riddance, Rancid,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: the Swing and Utters, Goo Goo Dolls and Chumba Bumba,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: And yes that Chumbawamba actually started as a very like
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: anarchist punk band.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: Goo Doll's first couple of records are also very punk records.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: But my favorite thing about Chumbawamba, this is all I'll
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: say about them is that they wrote a song celebrating
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: the death of Margaret Thatcher and they waited for her
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: to die to release it, and the day that she
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: died they released it and it was like just a
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: few years ago, like they had recorded it well before,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: and then like they were already you know, they'd already
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: put out.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: A good knocked out but I'll get up again.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: So they were already like on that that money and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: they still put out that song.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: So just so yeah, still very anarcho punk.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: Also for me, here's another list of bands that like
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: would also fit into my taste would be Bouncing Souls, MxPx,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Dancehall Crashers, Goldfinger, Propagandhi, Dropkick Murphy's and We're gonna say it,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Blink What eighty two because Blank Wat.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Two absolutely their early records are very.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Like pop punky bands that wouldn't exist without the Ramones
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: in Green Day and back Religion.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like early Green Day early Blinkwin eighty two had
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of overlap, I think, yeah, and their sounds
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: also going to shout out to our producer Justin was
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: in an early band started in nineteen ninety eight. I
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: think I have that date right. So when the late
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: nineties called Tip the Milkman, that was very much in
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: the vein of like no use for a name. Yeah,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: another punk, sort of pop punk, if you will, at
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the time, so but has a very sort of punk
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: feel but just more melodic most definitely. All right, well,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: let's get again. We have a lot to cover here.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Let's try and get to just sort of where punk
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: has at now. So what has happened with punk? What
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: is going on with modern punk? Most of the past
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: old punk bands, not most many of the old past
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: punk bands, they have since reunited, they've released albums, where
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: they've played shows or gone tour. But the punk scene
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: really does not exist today the way that it did
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: a few decades ago. It's largely has diverged and gone
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: different directions.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of that is like what you'll
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: find is that punk is diversion into alternative rock, metal, hardcore, emo,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: indie rock. SKA also developed alongside punk and had like
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: kind of a what you could describe as an overall
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: shorter window of time.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: And was generally less successful, but there were a bunch
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: of bands that came out of that.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: What you find though, is like like the genres of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: music have kind of like split up punk scenes. There
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: are still punk scenes and they are still existent. Yeah,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's happening more hardcore metal now than it
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: is like in standard punk scenes. But SKA in particular
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: had a lot of great bands that came out of it,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: like Less than Jake, Save Faris Real, Big Fish, the
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Mighty Mighty Bostones, Mustard Plug, the Voodoo, Glow Skulls, m.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: U three three zero, Catch twenty two, street Light, Manifesto,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Are Expandits, Operation Ivy five, Iron Frenzy, Buco nine and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Big d in the Kids Table with some other SKA bands.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: The Toasters, Skankin Pickle, which is my favorite SKA band
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: name besides Mescoffelies, the Mad Caddies, Suburban Legends eighty, and
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: the Hippos. There were SKA had like from ninety four
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: to ninety seven had just like this big burst of
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: great bands that came out of it.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there was. Like Skat also is one that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: has a really interesting history and like went through what
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: they call waves, Like you have different waves of SKA
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: that were like came all the way from reggae up
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: to what almost sounds more like hardcore music in some
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: of the ska how it developed is really interesting and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: really fun, and that was actually I listened to more
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: ska than I did punk back in the day, but
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: I loved a lot of the punk as well. So anyway,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: those are just some bands to list. Yeah, most definitely
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: many bands in these genres still reflect some of the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: ideals that motivated punk musicians. You still see a DIY
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: approach to making music. There's still a chewing traditional musical styles, trends,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: and norms. You'll often have these overtly political and satirical lyrics.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: That still is around.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: And like you said, there are still new punk bands
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: that are forming that are like playing punk music.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: It's just not quite that common.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: And as you said, it tends to look more like
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: sort of metal and hardcore anymore. There's i think generally
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: more musicianship to it. There's better equipment that is not
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: that expensive is available now that wasn't available back then.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: So it's around and it has kind of gone different places.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: It looks different now than it used to, but it's
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: still there.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And although this isn't necessarily inherent to punk, there
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: were like some other like kind of DIY or like
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: some different cultural movements that developed alongside these, including straight edge,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: which means that you've got folks that don't do drugs,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: drink or papermiscuo, sex, no nicotine, stuff like that. Vegetarian
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: and veganism saw that happen. But I will say, and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: I want to be really clear about this, because there's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: going to be folks that listen to the history of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: punk and they're going to be like, I'm a punk too.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Conservativism is not punk. Conservativism has never been punk. Yeah,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: the Dead Kennedy's have a song called Nazi Punks Golf.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: So when you see people that go out there and
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: they say things like, oh, being Republican is the new punk,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: being conservative is the new punk, it is not. Those
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: people are are sorely misinformed because there is no punk
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: in the world that is wanting more authority, that wants
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: to exclude people except for Nazis. We want to exclude Nazis.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: But when people say conservativism is punk, it is not.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: It never has been. And I'm not the arbiter for
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: what punk rock is, but I know what it ain't
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: and it ain't voting for Trump and it ain't voting
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: for the GOP and it ain't standing behind those systems.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the movement of punk grew almost exclusively out
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: of an anti authority position.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, Like.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Very commonly a theme you will hear again and again
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: and again in the lyrics is against authority, anti authority.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: That also was reflected in the overall style of like
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: doing things your own way and sort of and like conservativism,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Like the extreme side of conservativism is fascism, like.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Right, antithetical to punk rock.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like authoritarianism is antithetical to punk, and punk is
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: antithetical to authoritarianism. So you cannot be on the authoritarian
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: side of the spectrum and also be anti authoritarian, Like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: those are incompatible things. So the Venn diagram has no overlap,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: so there is not it does not. Yeah, it is
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: not punk. And actually, you know, in the recent super
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Man movie that came out, there's a whole discussion they
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: have about being punk rock and Superman sort of responds
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: being kind is punk, which I loved, and I completely
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: agree with that overall sentiment. And I think James Gunn,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: the director and writer of this is very much an
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: old school punk in in the way he has approached
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: his art and the things that he does and his
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: attitude and things.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely all right.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Well, there's also like just some notable things to list,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: some movies and books that will go through really quick.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: This is an ad break not for those things. All right,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go through a few movies. There is SLC Punk.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: This is featuring math Lillard. Is sort of about the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: lives of a couple of punks and a punk scene.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: And I spent a long time since I've watched it,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: but I remember really enjoying it. It is a sad movie,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: but it's an interesting view into the life of some
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: of that group of people. Another one is called bomb City.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: This is almost like a dramatized reality, like true crime
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. So this this movie came out in
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. It is about I'm kind of spoiling it because,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: like I said, it's sort of a dramatized telling of
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: a real event that happened in sort of American history.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: There was this punk musician whose name was Brian Theodore Denicky.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: He was killed in a deliberate hit and run attack
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: by Dustin Camp. So it was just a conflict between
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: these people. Brian Denekey was a punk he dressed like
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: a punk, he looked like a punk. He was largely
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: an artist, really sweet guy, and because there was this
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: conflict with some of the more traditional sort of I
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: think in this case they were sort of jocks. But yeah,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: this kid got in a car and ran him down,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: killed him by driving over him, and then he was
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: eventually like although he was found guilty of voluntary vehicular manslaughter,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: he was and sentenced to probation and sentence a fine
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: like that was later dropped. He essentially got away with
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: murder like Dustin Camp is a murderer who was never
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: held accountable for it because his victim was a punk.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: That's what that movie is about. Anyway.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: It's hard to watch, but it is very well done. Yeah,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: it's very well shot. It's just really sad. So anyway,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: then there's a movie called Green Room. This is essentially
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: about punks who accidentally find themselves in a den of
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: neo Nazis and then are trying to fight for their survival.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: It's almost more like horror than anything, but it is
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: centered around a bunch of punks in a conflict with
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: neo Nazis, which makes sense because punks and Nazis hate
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: each other traditionally.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, most definitely and historically. So.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: But those are three movies that i'd sort of note
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: that are in the sort of punk space if you're
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: interested in checking those out.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would also say The Decline of Western Civilization
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: is a good documentary. It's early early early punks. It
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: talks about slam dancing, it talks about like punk howses,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: and it features live performances from certain bands. So it's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: kind of a cool little like glimpse into a particular
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: time in punk rock. And it was filmed I believe,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: in la so it gives you insight on like that
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: particular scene.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm also going to give you eight books to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: check out, so do what you want. By Bad Religion,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Great Book History, Bad Religion, Hepatitis, Bathtub by No Effects.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: That's such a good name.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: It's such a good name.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: It's probably my favorite like band documentary book because it
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: was like written by the band. It's it's harrowing, it's
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: a tough read, but it is. There's parts of it
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: that're really funny. There's parts of it they're very heartwarming,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: Like you know, the drummer becomes sober during the story
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that, So there's lots of cool things
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: in it that are worth reading. Please Kill Me by
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: Legs McNeil is a really great look at early punks
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: that talking about you know, bands like Television, Blondie, all
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: those they interview all the folks from those bands. Get
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: in the Van by Henry Rollins is part of his journals,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: like he's kind of known for like writing journals and
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: publishing them. Get in the Van is like a particularly
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: interesting one because it's Black Flag on the road and
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: talking about what it's like the tour and be as
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: confrontational as Black Flag is. Tranny by Laura Jane Grace,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: singer of Against Me. It's her story about like coming out,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: about like discovering herself.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: It's a really really great, really great read.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: Straight Edge if you're interested at all in the oral
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: history of like the straight edge movement in hardcore. Called
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: straight Edge a clear headed hardcore punk History by Tony
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Retman another great read, like kind of goes into like
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: the beginning histories of like punk in hardcore and hardcore
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: straight edge hardcore specifically. Dan Ozzy is a great author.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: He wrote Sellout. He also helped write Blinkway two. Mark
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: Hoppus's recent book Fahrenheit one eighty two, and he also
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: helped write Tranny by Laura Jane Grace and then spray
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: Paint the Walls if you want the story of black Flag.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: It is a gnarly read. And that's from Stevie Chick
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: and that's that's a really great read, too nice.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So that's kind of the history of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I've wanted to have some sort of suite
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: of episodes that we do, not like when we do
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: our big runs of like a topic where we spend
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: eight or nine or ten episodes, there's really digging in
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: each episode on a thing, like we did with Addiction,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: like we did with Aba, like we're planning on doing
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: in an upcoming series that should come out this year.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: But I was I had this idea of like doing
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: a history of different musics, if you will, as some episodes,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: and I like the history of R and B and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: the history of well Punk is the one that we
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: just did, and just like using these discussions to sort
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: of understand big cultural movements and how they relate to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: and contribute to and participate in our social zeitgeist. Yeah,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: so this was a fun one. I'm glad we got
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: a chance to really take on me too.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: I loved it. It was great.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Also more lighthearted than you know when we do the
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I mean sort of lighthearted, but then when you do
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: like jonestown type episode the sad.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: Ones, Yeah, it's a nice palete cleanser. Yeah.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: So all right, I think that's what we have to
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: say about punk rock for now. We would love to
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: hear your stories, thoughts, musings, and other things that you
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: have to say, including compliments, and we're open to constructive criticism.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: But you come in here guns of blazon and have
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: nothing nice to say, with no offer to make things
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: better than we're not going to listen. But if you
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: have meaningful contributions and we want to tell us your
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: thoughts about punk or anything that we've ever talked about
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: on this show, you can email us directly at info
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: at wwdwwdpodcast dot com, or reach us on the social
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: media platforms, and we definitely look forward to hearing from you.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: In addition, if you'd like to support what we do,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: you can head over to Patreon, and if you do
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: that then you'll get some ad free episodes, bonus contents,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: early episodes, all kinds of benefits like that. And the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: thing that many people I think really go there for
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: is that at the end of our full length discussions
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: such as this one, I list the name of the
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: wonderful people who have really helped us do our thing,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: and that is Mike, m Meghan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: Kiara and Charlie. Thank you all for continuing to support
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: us and help us be a podcast.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, y'all are just the just the bees knees.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: The knees of the bees. Yes, indeed, of course. Thank
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: you to my team of people writing and fact checking
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: from Shane and myself. Thank you very much for her
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: help on this one today. Shane, Hey, no, this is great.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: This is a lot of fun.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: So yeah, this is the one of the more collaborative
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: episodes where because usually one of us does like pretty
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: much all of the sort of writing and research, but
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: having us both work a little bit more in this one.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for our social media coordinator Emma Wilson.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: And as I mentioned before, the person who knows how
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: to make sounds and make them good is Justin Greenhouse.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Oh does all of our audio engineering and producing beautiful, yes, wonderful,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: delightful person who's so so good at what he does,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: and it has like some great history, like some of
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: his bands been so good tip the Milkman. He's also
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: in one called The Brotherhood of Dahon, which is like
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: available on streaming platforms and is super good, like like
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: legitimately super super good.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: So definitely I love it.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: But I think that's the things that I have to say.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: But one of the things I build boarded to the
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: top is that we like to recommend so things. So
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: if you're here for the first time hearing this, stick
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: around because this is fun. It's a fun thing that
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: we do. Well, we'll just go right into it. Let's
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: cue the music and recommend some things.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: I love it. Recommendations.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna recommend. I'm gonna go first because mine
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: is the least related to everything that we talked about here.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I just finished a book.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: This is called The Frugal Wizard's Handbook for Surviving Medieval England,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: and despite the title, this is actually a lighthearted sci
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: fi book that has to do with traveling to other dimensions.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: It's fun, yes, it is a really fun book. So
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: it's by author Brandon Sanderson. This was one of what
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: is called his secret projects. So in twenty twenties, during lockdown,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: he decided, with his time being locked down, he was
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: going to write four books. So he wrote four complete
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: novels that are all around four hundred pages long that
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: came out that year. It's Wild, It is Wild. Yeah,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: he was extremely prolific, and he launched on Kickstarter and
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: created one of the most if not the most successful
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Kickstarter campaign of all time, raising I think over twenty
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: million dollars for this project, and this was one of them.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: But it's available in all sort of retail spaces. He
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: started his own publishing company called Dragon Steel, so it's
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: available through them. But yeah, it's briefly, it is about
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: a guy who wakes up who's like from sort of
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: a futuristic current world, so US but in the future, sure,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: and then he wakes up in an alternative At this
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: point in human technology, we've invented, we've discovered how you
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: can travel to other dimensions. In this book, and he
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: wakes up in this dimension and doesn't know who he
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: is or how he got there, and his memories sort
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: of slowly come back to him as he is navigating
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: this other dimension that also happens to be in medieval England.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: And so that's the story. Really good. It's really silly,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: I'll say that, like, it's a very silly story. But
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. And although the title makes
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: it sound like you would be boring, it's actually a
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: super entertaining, really quick paced and just a fun book.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: So you check out The Frugal Wizard's Handbook for Surviving
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Medieval England. For those people who know Brandon Sanderson, this
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: is not related to his other works, so it's just
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: a standalone novel. You don't have to have read anything
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: else to understand and follow what's going on in the story.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: I like that. It's nice to have, like those isolated stories.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: It's cool.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna recommend an album. It's not related.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: It's only related because it's music. But it is the
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: twentieth anniversary of this record, and that is from a
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: band called segar ROAs and it is their album talk
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: spelled ta kk. This is I believe that's Icelandic for
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: thank you, okay, if I remember correctly, And it is
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: just a beautiful, beautiful, big soundscape type of record. If
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: you've never heard segar ROAs it is like the kind
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: of music that, like, when you hear it on the stereo,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: you just want to hug your stereo and tell your
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: stereo that it's okay, because you feel like your stereo
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: is probably upset and crying and like just emotional.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: It's just an incredible album.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: So I was floored by the fact that this was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: twenty years old this point, but when I listened to it,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 3: it just brings me back to a very particular time
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: and I just really just really really loved it. So
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: you should go listen to it and feel really good
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: about what you're hearing.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: This artist has been recommended to me many times over history,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: and I have simply never made space for it. But
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I am given to understand it is very good, so
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I will check this out. I appreciate the recommendation.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like as a musician, you will love it.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, very good, Yeah, well awesome. So, as I said,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about punk.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Those are our recommendations and our thoughts on all of that.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: And I gave you ways to reach out to us.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: I thank my team of people. So I guess my
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: last thank you is Thank you all for listening, and
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: if I didn't mention before, please like and subscribe. That
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: definitely helps us reach other people. If you leave us
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a nice five star rating, that also helps a lot.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: And if you're really feeling ambitious, we definitely appreciate a
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: nice positive review. Otherwise you can just go tell friend,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: because I think the word of mouth is still one
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: of the ways that many podcasts make it out into
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: the world, particularly those of us that have a zero
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: dollar advertising budget such as US.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, So that's where we're at with things.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: But is there anything you would like to add or
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: anything that I forgot before we say goodbyes?
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Uh nope, not on my end.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: All right, go check out some punk. This is Abraham
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: and this is Shane.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: We're out. See Yep, you've been listening to Why We
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Do What We Do.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: going to WWD WWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: and we hope you have an awesome day.